Stop blaming the roads

[The Tazman]

I read the other day in the Dominion post that the authorities were blaming the road for accidents and deaths that happen on it.

How is it the roads fault that certain Muppets cannot drive to the conditions of the road?????????????

I think they should start to look at the fact they allow 15 year olds to start driving!!!! I am sorry but Most 15 year olds are not responsible enough to own a push bike let alone a motor vehicle. Then they give them a scratch and win card as a written test and follow it up with a practical that a trained hamster could pass.

Hmmmmmmmmm then again it could be the roads fault!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I feel it is time to up the driving age and put a restriction on the size of the engine they can have for the first couple of years, like they do when learning to ride a bike.

They have already started to straighten some perfectly good roads, should they not spend the money on teaching people to drive properly?????

I would be interested to hear anybody’s point of views.

Well that's my first thread and my 2 cents worth.

[justsomeguy]

I feel it is time to up the driving age and put a restriction on the size of the engine they can have for the first couple of years, like they do when learning to ride a bike.
Well that's my first thread and my 2 cents worth.

That's what a lot of us KB'ers have been suggesting, but I seriously doubt it will happen because of three very important reasons.

1. It makes sense and is simple
2. It's not yet done in Aussie
3. It's against govt. policy.......(legalise hookers, lower drunkards ages, homologate hommos...... increase driving age WTF-nooo wayyyy)

So I'm sorry......

[250learna]

i think that you should not be allowed to drive big cc/ turbo cars on your learners/ restricted, and by then you should be older and i hope wiser to drive a fast car safely.
The roads in NZ compared to the ones in europe are a bit on the poor side and wear out a lot more, for instance how many times have you seen the gravel in the corners wear out leaving just the tar or whatever it is?
They are second grade and also wear out alot quicker becoming more dangerous, specially if you only have 2 wheels to balance on!
Bout a week and a bit ago i went over a new road that didnt look like it was swept proparly, i slowed down and got trough fine. on the way back from palmy i saw a car on the other side of the road who wasnt quiet as sensible to slow down for the corner.
Im not saying that roads are the sole reason here, but they too should be considered.

[RDJ]

Riding on well maintained roads overseas is nicer as well as safer, but everywhere the Slippery Roadmarkings Of Doom lie in wait... along with the Goblins Of Gravel, Rail/Tram Lines, and Offcamber Corners.

I don't think our Govt - any Govt - is going to reinvest speedcam revenue into safer road surfaces for riders. Ever. Dammit.

[250learna]

Riding on well maintained roads overseas is nicer as well as safer, but everywhere the Slippery Roadmarkings Of Doom lie in wait... along with the Goblins Of Gravel, Rail/Tram Lines, and Offcamber Corners.

I don't think our Govt - any Govt - is going to reinvest speedcam revenue into safer road surfaces for riders. Ever. Dammit.

You are the king of aliteration! :Punk:

And sadly i think you are right about the speedcam revenue :spudgrr:

[bugjuice]

what scares me is seeing 'L' plates on things like V8s and Range Rovers etc.. I'm well on your side here, they should up the age and restrict the cc. In the UK, the insurance alone puts most newbies off big engined cars, but here insurance is optional, so it's ok to run a GTS on your L plate with your mates in the back while you go to fukin school... fukin stupid rule..

But what can we do? petition?

[sAsLEX]

I think they should start to look at the fact they allow 15 year olds to start driving!!!! I am sorry but Most 15 year olds are not responsible enough to own a push bike let alone a motor vehicle.

yeah why punish the ones that are though!! There are a great many number of young people who have the intelligence and maturity to operate a vehicle safetly! Bloody hell I have met a great deal of people well over 20 that I wouldn trust behind the wheel, so why change the age! Change the testing and restrictions.

[Clockwork]

I didn't realise how shite some of our road surfaces are until I was "born again", modern cars suspension is hiding a lot of sins. Add to that, inconsistent signage, little or no safety provision for vehicles that leave the road, some godawfull intersections, the odd questionable law, too few passing opportunuites and a whole mass of drivers who buy into the speed kills argument to the extent that they won't exceed 80kph unless there are two lanes and I'd say the "roads" can stand some blame.

As for the licensing age, I don't have a problem with it and the license isn't that easy to get (unless you can buy one) but perhaps it could be easier to lose. Maybe if young drivers needed references from their schools that would help schools with discipline.

Engine power or CC restrictions, I could definately go for that but it would be a BUGGER to police. Any kid that can afford a near new performance car is not going to have trouble paying for the insurance (if they can be bothered)

[Kickaha]

How is it the roads fault that certain Muppets cannot drive to the conditions of the road?????????????

Hmmmmmmmmm then again it could be the roads fault!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




Because it's far easier to blame the road than admit that we're a nation of incompetent drivers and riders and that the current driver licence system doesn't give most people an adequate level of skill to cope with things turning to custard on the road

[tl_tub]

...for instance how many times have you seen the gravel in the corners wear out leaving just the tar or whatever it is?
They are second grade and also wear out alot quicker becoming more dangerous, specially if you only have 2 wheels to balance on!
...


Much worse down south. Unfortunatly if the contractor uses bitumen that cant withstand the summer heat, or uses too much of it, flushing is caused. Flushing is when the bitumen flows upwards as forces of a truck or car push the stones down.
Most often you will see this on corners, hills or at intersections. Most of the time it is left as is, though fine aggregate is sometimes spread over the area.

As the quality of new zealand roads is a liability for transit, you will start to see more 'slippery surface' warning signs popping up - so forget blaming them when you have an accident on a poor quality road. It looks like you will have to go after the contractor.

[SPman]

Ah...this hobbyhorse again
My thoughts
(background - grew up on a farm - driving tractors at 12, cars at 13 1/2 Got my licence at 15 (+ 1 week) (Full), pilots license at 18)
Dont raise the driving age, but (theres always a but). Put far more effort into teaching car control and attitudinal training as a requisite for getting your restricted, than merely obeying regulations and steering the car down the middle of the road. I think most 15 y.o. drivers have a natural reluctance to go to totally apeshit, than when they hit 17-18, and are in full Testosterone flush. Better to get them a bit more upskilled before they hit that 18- ish wild time.
Compulsory insurance on cars - yes.
Dont know how you would police a power/power to weight restriction - as usual, the responsible types would obey, the normal fuckheads wouldnt give a shit and many young people who could handle them, would be bitching - just like bikes really. (think Scott Dixon...Chris Amon racing a Maserati 250 at 17, Bruce McLaren winning a F1 GP at 19!)
Most young drivers I know are quite competent - but then they have wanted to learn and have good attitudes and they all got their licences at 15-16. You can be a quick safe driver - its all about attitude - and not the bullshit advertising hijacking of attitude either. Like most people on sites like this, they have an interest in driving/riding, want to be competent and want to ensure they are as skilled as possible. I think it is better to catch people when they are a bit younger and more open to learning

There will always be the dickheads. - so should we punish the majority because of the actions of the minority, when the powers that be are too fucking anal to recognise the long term effectiveness of PROPER training?

Oh, sorry, this is NZ......

Slinks off to find his own utopia, where authorities actually GIVE a shit...

[Lou Girardin]

Here's something to think about.
Now that kids are driven to school and generally molly-coddled to within an inch of their lives, are we putting 15 year olds into cars with almost no experience of using the roads, ie. riding bikes, etc.
Does this factor justify raising the driving age to 18?
Personally, I think so.

[gamgee]

I think a better way of restricting the cars that learners can drive would be the cars rated horsepower, because of turbos, there's a huge difference in power between say a 1990 1.3l toyota starlet, and a 1990 1.3l toyota GT starlet

[SPman]

Here's something to think about.
Now that kids are driven to school and generally molly-coddled to within an inch of their lives, are we putting 15 year olds into cars with almost no experience of using the roads, ie. riding bikes, etc.
Does this factor justify raising the driving age to 18?
Hmmm - there is that All the kids I know push biked, walked, Bussed to school - only got lifts like us in exceptional circumstances. Also more metal roads around way back when - really good for learning car control on....

[Motu]

:brick: :brick: :brick: I can't believe this still keeps coming up,I'm almost set to give up with exhaustion.

I'm with SPman,15 yr olds are fine,they don't jump in a high powered car and go apeshit straight away - they do that after they have gained confidence,then overconfidence.The the most important thing is to gain access to a powerfull vehicle,generaly out of reach for most young kids.Both my daughters were driving before 15,the younger got her learners on her 15th birthday - my wife and her drove to Wellington and back a couple of weeks ago,I was releived to hear my daughter did most of the driving.

As for blaming the road???? I...I...I feel a seizure coming on,I'm gunna back away real slow....I'll be back on monday and hope this thread is buried and gone....

[MacD]

Interesting. I thought this thread was going to be about riders blaming the road for their "offs". I see quite a bit of that on this website too, it doesn't just come from the "authorities" you know...

[scumdog]

Common reasons young ones crash?

Not paying attention and "didn't notice it was a give way'
"didn't know I was doing that speed"
"I was changing the CD/getting a smoke" whatever
"I didn't notice the other cars has slowed down"
"I haven't driven on gravel before

The best one is the minor damage from nose-to-tails involving 'boy racer' cars - they often occur on their 'drag train' cruises 'cos they sit too low to see the tail-lights of the car on front - ah, such is the price of following trends (and too close!)

A lot won't admit the were too busy looking to see who was on the footpath 'admiring' them when they crashed or looking over the back seat talking or texting etc. but a lot happen like that.

Most have NO idea of the laws of physics (Jim) or vehicle dynamics etc.

Blame the roads? probably 90% of the time that response is an easy cop out for the fact they were speeding/not paying attention.
My (experienced)2 cents worth

[Toast]

yeah why punish the ones that are though!! There are a great many number of young people who have the intelligence and maturity to operate a vehicle safetly! Bloody hell I have met a great deal of people well over 20 that I wouldn trust behind the wheel, so why change the age! Change the testing and restrictions.

Hell yes...age does not equate to experience...training and experience does.I think the age limit is fine, but the fact that most muppets pay no attention to what is happening beneath their asses when driving a car (and to a lesser extent, some of those on bikes) is where the problem lies.

I also agree big time with the bit about modern cars hiding the failings of our roads...they also hide the failings of the people driving them. Most modern cars with even a mild sporting aspiration have so much grip that they can be thrown around with zero thought...but then when a panic situation comes up and some decent car control is needed...it's not there. (edit: as noted by somebody else, modern sportsbikes and tyres can hide failings in much the same way that modern cars do. Fair enough, except that the degree of electronic intervention that is present in modern cars is not yet in bikes...ABS, ESP, TCS, AYC, etc, etc. Moving from an '88 CBR250 to an '02 6R though, I can appreciate how much development in bikes and tyres has made up for rider deficiencies)

Training is what the system needs to promote...but putting those systems in place is nowehere near as easy as making an ad to blame people for making the little red needle creep past 3 digits.

[Ixion]

Some roads may be bad, but they always have been. And they were much worse in the past. I actually think that the problem is that roads are too *good*. Because a lot of roads nowadays are very good compared to what they once were (they are usually no longer windy, narrow, rutted, potholed etc) people, including bikers have come to rely on the road being "good". And come to grief when it is not. I ride as if all roads are "bad*.

Gravel is the classic example. I really cannot understand why people (bikes and cars) freak out if they encounter gravel. (Nor can I understand how it is possible to get a licence, with all the modern day complexity of the process, and not ever have driven on gravel. But that's another rant)

I would heavily *cut* the budget for roading - lets roads deteriorate a bit. A road that is *obviously* dodgy, and looks it, is actually quite safe. Drivers and bikers look at it and go "oh oh - better be careful". What is dangerous is the fast "safe" looking road. Because *NO* road is safe. All roads are dangerous

As to increasing the driving age, I suspect the 15 year olds , still at home with the olds , are much safer. And usually rely on Dad's car also. It is when they get a bit older, and have a job and some money, and start doing the "impress the chicks with my driving" stuff that they are at risk. But unless you increase the age to something ridiculous, like 30, it won't make any difference putting it up. Horse power / capacity restrictions might be a good idea, and shuldn't be any harder to police than on bikes. But will it really make any difference? Almost any modernish car can exceed the speed limit by 100%.

Be very careful here, beause the logical end point of *this* process is limiters fitted to all vehicles that restrict them to 100kph max. There was a letter in the 'Herald" the other day advocating this, and it would be technically simple to do. Want to go there ? Didn't think so.

But I will go further. I think the whole issue is a cop out. Yes, people are killed on the roads. One day one of them may be me. And some people dear and close to me have been killed on the roads. That's life. Life is dangerous. People die.

Yes, young kids kill themselves in fast cars. That's tragic, but it's life. Kids have always killed themselves one way or another. The urge to put life in danger is a normal part of growing up, it's only when we grow old that we become wimpy and want to be "safe" all the time.Kids get killed because they deliberately do dangerous things. For a few , they lose the gamble with fate. We did the same when we were young. And no matter WHAT you do, kids will continue to seek out danger and take risks. And get killed. Yes, your kids. Live with the fact

Bikes are dangerous. Always will be. Cars are dangerous . Always will be . If you can't accept the very small danger inherent in both, then stay home. There is no such thing as a "safe road" .

This latter day fixation with "road peril" is the same sort of wussiness that makes parents drive strapping 14 year old kids to school. Because it's "too dangerous" for them to walk/bike/skate.

Harden up, New Zealnd.

We are turning into a nation of bleating whining wimpy wussy girl's blouses.

[scumdog]

Nicely summed up!! :niceone:

[The Tazman]

:brick: :brick: :brick: I can't believe this still keeps coming up,I'm almost set to give up with exhaustion.

I'm with SPman,15 yr olds are fine,they don't jump in a high powered car and go apeshit straight away - they do that after they have gained confidence,then overconfidence.The the most important thing is to gain access to a powerfull vehicle,generaly out of reach for most young kids.Both my daughters were driving before 15,the younger got her learners on her 15th birthday - my wife and her drove to Wellington and back a couple of weeks ago,I was releived to hear my daughter did most of the driving.

As for blaming the road???? I...I...I feel a seizure coming on,I'm gunna back away real slow....I'll be back on monday and hope this thread is buried and gone....

Some of us are new to this and did not know this subject had been up loads of times before!!! I did not want people to get upset about it, just wanted to know peoples opinions.

Re. the age thing I feel that allot of how they are is down to the parents and how they are raised. Yes I have met some great 15 year olds but I am not convinced that is the norm. but I hope it is. The parent of one of the latest fatalities said " 6 offences in 2 years that's not that bad for a kid of his age"!!!!!!!!!!! and then followed it up by saying " he couldn't afford the fines so as any loving parent would, we helped him pay them"

That to me is a little worrying

Along with the fact that by mid December I think the figures stood at 30+ deaths on the road. This is way higher than in the UK where the country is smaller and has 15 times!! more people.

As I said these are just my observations and not meant to offend anyone. I am open-minded and will always listen to other people’s point of view.

Thanks to you all for your feedback.

[The Tazman]

Very well summed up

[MSTRS]

Roads are NOT dangerous. It is the users on them. This link was meant in the vein of a PT but not so sure now.http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showpost.php?p=225506&postcount=2

[Motu]

Some of us are new to this and did not know this subject had been up loads of times before!!! I did not want people to get upset about it, just wanted to know peoples opinions.

Thanks to you all for your feedback.
Go to anyone of the earlier ''I binned my bike on gravel'' threads and you'll see me pushing my case,I feel very strongly about people riding with their eyes shut and then trying to blame something/someone else,it makes me very angry to see this copout attitude.But I must admit I'm kinda proud of the members lately - there have been quite a few bins recently as you may have noticed - oh,some have muttered about diesel halfheartedly,but on the whole most have taken it on the chin and said ''I fucked up''.With experiance comes maturity....for some - I may look mature,but am still a teen mentaly.

[White trash]

Go to anyone of the earlier ''I binned my bike on gravel'' threads and you'll see me pushing my case,I feel very strongly about people riding with their eyes shut and then trying to blame something/someone else,it makes me very angry to see this copout attitude.But I must admit I'm kinda proud of the members lately - there have been quite a few bins recently as you may have noticed - oh,some have muttered about diesel halfheartedly,but on the whole most have taken it on the chin and said ''I fucked up''.With experiance comes maturity....for some - I may look mature,but am still a teen mentaly.

Thought you were coming back Monday.......

[Ixion]

Thought you were coming back Monday.......

Eh. This is Monday. Isn't it. Uh - oh um now I understand why no-one else is at work. Oh um, hey forget all about this OK

[idb]

I'm all over the place on this one.
As I've got older my natural inclination is to advocate raising the age limit.
But if I think about it a bit more it goes my distaste of imposing blanket laws that affect everyone to protect idiots and wankers from themselves kicks in.
I don't think though that a CC or horsepower restriction would be unreasonable at all.
As for driver education, it could start with the media advertising. I recall some years ago that there was a campaign of "Brake on the straight before it's too late" meaning that when driving a a car you should get your braking done before you hit the corner and showed a car with all wheels locked up going straight through a corner. That's the only truly educative campaign that I remember - I stand to be corrected though.
It's all very well banging on about about the awful effects of bad driving and the financial penalties you face, why not show tips on safe and correct driving?
But please don't use Rap! Try Dr Seuss!

Randle was stunned, he could not take it in,
He had gone in too fast, he had started to spin,
But The Cat In The Back said "There's no need to fret,
Put aside all your worry we'll correct this spin yet,
Turn your wheels t'ward the winding and unwound we will be,
Turn your wheels in that way and soon you will see,
We'll undo your doing of uncontrolled whirl,
You'll save the day yet and you'll impress all the girls"
So Randle he did as the cat had instruct him,
He saved all involved and the the girls, impressed, f****d him.

It doesn't hurt to put a bit of sex in there!

[MSTRS]

Randle was stunned, he could not take it in,
He had gone in too fast, he had started to spin,
But The Cat In The Back said "There's no need to fret,
Put aside all your worry we'll correct this spin yet,
Turn your wheels t'ward the winding and unwound we will be,
Turn your wheels in that way and soon you will see,
We'll undo your doing of uncontrolled whirl,
You'll save the day yet and you'll impress all the girls"
So Randle he did as the cat had instruct him,
He saved all involved and the the girls, impressed, f****d him.

It doesn't hurt to put a bit of sex in there!
:drinknsin :apint: :apint:

[Clockwork]

I seem to be the only person here who can find fault with our roads. Fine, but I wish the authorities would stop using our road toll per-capita to compare us with other countries that have significantly safer roads.

[MSTRS]

other countries that have significantly safer roads.
Subjective. It is what is done on the roads that makes them safe or dangerous.

[Motu]

Thought you were coming back Monday.......
Saturday morning is suposed to be my quiet day and I was gunna go early to Puke.But I got busy and my lawnmower has seized and I'm going to the track NOW!!

[Ixion]

Saturday morning is suposed to be my quiet day and I was gunna go early to Puke.But I got busy and my lawnmower has seized and I'm going to the track NOW!!

So - you promised Mrs Motu you'd cut the lawns ? And now your lawnmower has seized, so you're off to the track instead. Very convenient, that seizure ? :devil2:

[Drew]

cc ratings are not the problem here. Anyone spent time on an RGV 250 lately? It is power to weight that causes strife for the uneducated, and frankley, how do you police something like that. The LTSA are not about to install dino gear in all W.O.F outlets.
The one thing that is gauranteed to bring down the road toll, is to educate drivers, and maintain the road's better.
Road maintanance is costing shit loads at the moment and they are still falling behind with it, so where will the money come from, speed fine revenew is far too simple an answer, and I'm allready pissed off about more tax on my petrol to pay for the Aukland upgrade.
Private funding and toll booths is the way it should go, that way, if you dont use it, you don't pay for it!
Thats my 2 cents anyway.
P.S we could do away with maintanance and fit knobly tyres to every vehical on the road.

[Drew]

Some of us are new to this and did not know this subject had been up loads of times before!!! I did not want people to get upset about it, just wanted to know peoples opinions.

Re. the age thing I feel that allot of how they are is down to the parents and how they are raised. Yes I have met some great 15 year olds but I am not convinced that is the norm. but I hope it is. The parent of one of the latest fatalities said " 6 offences in 2 years that's not that bad for a kid of his age"!!!!!!!!!!! and then followed it up by saying " he couldn't afford the fines so as any loving parent would, we helped him pay them"

That to me is a little worrying

Along with the fact that by mid December I think the figures stood at 30+ deaths on the road. This is way higher than in the UK where the country is smaller and has 15 times!! more people.

As I said these are just my observations and not meant to offend anyone. I am open-minded and will always listen to other people’s point of view.

Thanks to you all for your feedback.

Don't appologise for briging up a topic. If someone gets offended by something, they shouldnt read the thread. FUCK EM, post what you want to talk about! :Pokey:

[jimbo600]

Damn right Taz. Take Centennial drive (the killer highway) now there's fuck all wrong with that rd. If folk can't negotiate that bit of road safely they shouldn't be driving. They should fit all cages with a huge metal spike coming out of the steering column aiming at the drivers eyes. The drivers would pay close attention then. They wouldn't follow too close, or gaze at the scenery.

[SPman]

Yup - about time drivers and riders realised that controlling a motor vehicle is a serious full time occupation, to be concentrated on whilst in the pursuance thereof.
Its only when yer really good like me, that you can text, change CD's, roll a joint etc, whilst driving!

[Teflon]

I feel it is time to up the driving age and put a restriction on the size of the engine they can have for the first couple of years, like they do when learning to ride a bike.


Needs to be some kind of power to weight restriction.

Harleys for example, would be a perfect learner bike, because they weigh ton and have bugger all horse power. Even a 600 single would be ideal.

I think it's a bad idea giving a learners a option of riding bikes like RGV's, NSR's etc.

[Wolf]

Harleys for example, would be a perfect learner bike, because they weigh ton and have bugger all horse power.
Served well enough for my great-uncle Owen to learn on - 1340cc HD, no helmet, gravel-roads. All the incentive not to fall off you could want...

I think it's a bad idea giving a learners a option of riding bikes like RGV's, NSR's etc.
I agree in general. Most the people here "self regulated" - started off on less powerful bikes and worked up. Some here have benefitted from the ability to have something as powerful as an RGV whilst still restricted to 250cc - but they've worked their way up to it.

Perhaps ban RGVs, NSRs and similar for the Learner Licence and allow them under Restricted.

[Clockwork]

Subjective. It is what is done on the roads that makes them safe or dangerous.

Are we talking before or after the event?

[inlinefour]

bit like blaming the spoon for all the fat people out there :D

Nice sig :niceone:

[mangell6]

The one thing that is gauranteed to bring down the road toll, is to educate drivers, and maintain the road's better.

Educate drivers is the ONLY thing that will gaurantee the road toll to be come "more acceptable".

"But sir, I was driving to the road conditions."



Road maintanance is costing shit loads at the moment and they are still falling behind with it, so where will the money come from, speed fine revenew is far too simple an answer, and I'm allready pissed off about more tax on my petrol to pay for the Auckland upgrade.
Private funding and toll booths is the way it should go, that way, if you dont use it, you don't pay for it!


Back in the late 1970s I worked for the Ministry of Works, the roading engineers always stated that if ALL the money that was taken under the heading of "road tax" was put back into the New Zealand roads there would not be a single gravel road.

Things have not changed at all, although a lot of the main roads are smoother and straighter.

Mike

[Ixion]

Back in the late 1970s I worked for the Ministry of Works, the roading engineers always stated that if ALL the money that was taken under the heading of "road tax" was put back into the New Zealand roads there would not be a single gravel road.


What a horrible thought. :eyepoke: You tell your ex mates to leave our gravel roads alone. We've got precious few of them left as it is . :nono:

[sAsLEX]

Its only when yer really good like me, that you can text, change CD's, roll a joint etc, whilst driving!

All it takes is a bit of training! Think about pilots of say a helicopter, they are using both hands and feet and navigating in 3 dimensions and most do it along with fiddling with knobs etc on their dash. But someone in a car, using most likely one hand and one foot in 2 dimensions fucks up trying to tune the radio?!

How many people can change the CD/Radio without taking their eyes off the road!? It is not a dificult task but it seems to overload alot of people. Do it often enough, say practice in the drive before you leave, and you will learn where everything is in your car and be able to do most things without having to take concentration away from the road.

[Ixion]

..

How many people can change the CD/Radio without taking their eyes off the road!? It is not a dificult task but it seems to overload alot of people. Do it often enough, say practice in the drive before you leave,..

Undoing a bra strap without taking your eyes off the road. Now *that* takes practice :yes: Not to mention self control :yes:

I think I need more practice ! :killingme

[pritch]

I believe that people die on our roads partly because the LTSA are asleep at the wheel. That isn't meant to absolve the drivers of all blame. For example some of those stretches of road that are currently blighted by "head-ons" might benefit from some form of central divider. Then the terminally stupid could wipe themselves out without involving an innocent party.

Licences are too easy to get and realistically that will always be the case. (The cost of skid pans and racetracks would be prohibitive.) The problem is that people then think they can drive and in a very short time they consider themselves "good drivers". Yet most could not be truly described as "drivers" at all. They will have read nothing about driving since they sat their test, many may never have driven outside town.

The people I work with invariably consider themselves good drivers. I point out all the damage on the "Company" cars, but aparently that isn't relevant.

These "good" drivers have said some rather startling things to me :
"I have never put petrol in a car in my life."
"I have never adjusted the ventilation in a car."
"I want a bigger map, one that I can read while I'm driving."
"A Traffic cop told me never use the mirrors, they cause too many accidents."

That last one was particularly scary but I know from the mal-adjusted mirrors I find in our cars, including repeatedly finding them folded flat along the side of the car, that they are grossly underutilised.

And these are supposed to be reasonably intelligent people.

Stay awake out there...

[RDJ]

Undoing a bra strap without taking your eyes off the road. Now *that* takes practice

Not with a Velcro bra
Makes an ideal gift for both involved...

[Storm]

I believe that people die on our roads partly because the LTSA are asleep at the wheel. That isn't meant to absolve the drivers of all blame. For example some of those stretches of road that are currently blighted by "head-ons" might benefit from some form of central divider. Then the terminally stupid could wipe themselves out without involving an innocent party.

Licences are too easy to get and realistically that will always be the case. (The cost of skid pans and racetracks would be prohibitive.) The problem is that people then think they can drive and in a very short time they consider themselves "good drivers". Yet most could not be truly described as "drivers" at all. They will have read nothing about driving since they sat their test, many may never have driven outside town.

The people I work with invariably consider themselves good drivers. I point out all the damage on the "Company" cars, but aparently that isn't relevant.

These "good" drivers have said some rather startling things to me :
"I have never put petrol in a car in my life."
"I have never adjusted the ventilation in a car."
"I want a bigger map, one that I can read while I'm driving."
"A Traffic cop told me never use the mirrors, they cause too many accidents."

That last one was particularly scary but I know from the mal-adjusted mirrors I find in our cars, including repeatedly finding them folded flat along the side of the car, that they are grossly underutilised.

And these are supposed to be reasonably intelligent people.

Stay awake out there...


So who do you work for again?

[sAsLEX]

Licences are too easy to get and realistically that will always be the case. (The cost of skid pans and racetracks would be prohibitive.) The problem is that people then think they can drive and in a very short time they consider themselves "good drivers". Yet most could not be truly described as "drivers" at all. They will have read nothing about driving since they sat their test, many may never have driven outside town.


Dont need anything flash, did the holden advanced driving thingo up by Paritutu(place in NP) in an old lot, mix of concrete and gravel etc, great for learning car control and braking on surfaces that aint shit hot to start with. And the other practical driving course was held out at the Airport on a mix of the carpark and some paddocks, alot harder to keep control on the grass than a fancy track!

I am sure most places around the country have unused industrial area that could be implemented as training areas.

[scumdog]

Undoing a bra strap without taking your eyes off the road. Now *that* takes practice :yes: Not to mention self control :yes:

I think I need more practice ! :killingme

Especially if YOU are wearing it yourself!! :killingme

[pritch]

So who do you work for again?

I'm not saying :-)

Like I said these are reasonably intelligent people but in my opinion their driving is LCD level. Generally none have ever read anything about driving or roadcraft, none have competed in motor sport of any kind, only one to my knowledge has ever ridden motorcycles. They are all good drivers though and will tell you.

Sadly, there are a lot worse than them out there.

[scumdog]

All the bikes I saw coming back from the Beaumont rally were travelling at a much more sedate speed, tiredness and hangovers or my preaching to a few of them and the word spreading? Dunno but whatever it was i was relieved to not be attending any motorbike crashes this weekend. :niceone: :ride:

[idb]

All the bikes I saw coming back from the Beaumont rally were travelling at a much more sedate speed, tiredness and hangovers or my preaching to a few of them and the word spreading? Dunno but whatever it was i was relieved to not be attending any motorbike crashes this weekend. :niceone: :ride:
Have you had any word on the rally?
It's the first isn't it?

[scumdog]

Have you had any word on the rally?
It's the first isn't it?

Only positive comments, yep, it was the first at that site and I'm gutted I had to work instead of going there - HEAPS of bikes and A1 weather!! Damn.

I guess the WINJA types would say I could have gone if I wasn't watching porn but then shallow people (or retards) WOULD think that.
Nothing to do with staff shortages etc, no oh no, nothing as basic as that!!