Stop blaming the roads

[The Tazman]

I read the other day in the Dominion post that the authorities were blaming the road for accidents and deaths that happen on it.

How is it the roads fault that certain Muppets cannot drive to the conditions of the road?????????????

I think they should start to look at the fact they allow 15 year olds to start driving!!!! I am sorry but Most 15 year olds are not responsible enough to own a push bike let alone a motor vehicle. Then they give them a scratch and win card as a written test and follow it up with a practical that a trained hamster could pass.

Hmmmmmmmmm then again it could be the roads fault!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I feel it is time to up the driving age and put a restriction on the size of the engine they can have for the first couple of years, like they do when learning to ride a bike.

They have already started to straighten some perfectly good roads, should they not spend the money on teaching people to drive properly?????

I would be interested to hear anybody’s point of views.

Well that's my first thread and my 2 cents worth.

[justsomeguy]

I feel it is time to up the driving age and put a restriction on the size of the engine they can have for the first couple of years, like they do when learning to ride a bike.
Well that's my first thread and my 2 cents worth.

That's what a lot of us KB'ers have been suggesting, but I seriously doubt it will happen because of three very important reasons.

1. It makes sense and is simple
2. It's not yet done in Aussie
3. It's against govt. policy.......(legalise hookers, lower drunkards ages, homologate hommos...... increase driving age WTF-nooo wayyyy)

So I'm sorry......

[250learna]

i think that you should not be allowed to drive big cc/ turbo cars on your learners/ restricted, and by then you should be older and i hope wiser to drive a fast car safely.
The roads in NZ compared to the ones in europe are a bit on the poor side and wear out a lot more, for instance how many times have you seen the gravel in the corners wear out leaving just the tar or whatever it is?
They are second grade and also wear out alot quicker becoming more dangerous, specially if you only have 2 wheels to balance on!
Bout a week and a bit ago i went over a new road that didnt look like it was swept proparly, i slowed down and got trough fine. on the way back from palmy i saw a car on the other side of the road who wasnt quiet as sensible to slow down for the corner.
Im not saying that roads are the sole reason here, but they too should be considered.

[RDJ]

Riding on well maintained roads overseas is nicer as well as safer, but everywhere the Slippery Roadmarkings Of Doom lie in wait... along with the Goblins Of Gravel, Rail/Tram Lines, and Offcamber Corners.

I don't think our Govt - any Govt - is going to reinvest speedcam revenue into safer road surfaces for riders. Ever. Dammit.

[250learna]

Riding on well maintained roads overseas is nicer as well as safer, but everywhere the Slippery Roadmarkings Of Doom lie in wait... along with the Goblins Of Gravel, Rail/Tram Lines, and Offcamber Corners.

I don't think our Govt - any Govt - is going to reinvest speedcam revenue into safer road surfaces for riders. Ever. Dammit.

You are the king of aliteration!

And sadly i think you are right about the speedcam revenue :spudgrr:

[bugjuice]

what scares me is seeing 'L' plates on things like V8s and Range Rovers etc.. I'm well on your side here, they should up the age and restrict the cc. In the UK, the insurance alone puts most newbies off big engined cars, but here insurance is optional, so it's ok to run a GTS on your L plate with your mates in the back while you go to fukin school... fukin stupid rule..

But what can we do? petition?

[sAsLEX]

I think they should start to look at the fact they allow 15 year olds to start driving!!!! I am sorry but Most 15 year olds are not responsible enough to own a push bike let alone a motor vehicle.

yeah why punish the ones that are though!! There are a great many number of young people who have the intelligence and maturity to operate a vehicle safetly! Bloody hell I have met a great deal of people well over 20 that I wouldn trust behind the wheel, so why change the age! Change the testing and restrictions.

[Clockwork]

I didn't realise how shite some of our road surfaces are until I was "born again", modern cars suspension is hiding a lot of sins. Add to that, inconsistent signage, little or no safety provision for vehicles that leave the road, some godawfull intersections, the odd questionable law, too few passing opportunuites and a whole mass of drivers who buy into the speed kills argument to the extent that they won't exceed 80kph unless there are two lanes and I'd say the "roads" can stand some blame.

As for the licensing age, I don't have a problem with it and the license isn't that easy to get (unless you can buy one) but perhaps it could be easier to lose. Maybe if young drivers needed references from their schools that would help schools with discipline.

Engine power or CC restrictions, I could definately go for that but it would be a BUGGER to police. Any kid that can afford a near new performance car is not going to have trouble paying for the insurance (if they can be bothered)

[Kickaha]

How is it the roads fault that certain Muppets cannot drive to the conditions of the road?????????????

Hmmmmmmmmm then again it could be the roads fault!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Because it's far easier to blame the road than admit that we're a nation of incompetent drivers and riders and that the current driver licence system doesn't give most people an adequate level of skill to cope with things turning to custard on the road

[tl_tub]

...for instance how many times have you seen the gravel in the corners wear out leaving just the tar or whatever it is?
They are second grade and also wear out alot quicker becoming more dangerous, specially if you only have 2 wheels to balance on!
...

Much worse down south. Unfortunatly if the contractor uses bitumen that cant withstand the summer heat, or uses too much of it, flushing is caused. Flushing is when the bitumen flows upwards as forces of a truck or car push the stones down.
Most often you will see this on corners, hills or at intersections. Most of the time it is left as is, though fine aggregate is sometimes spread over the area.

As the quality of new zealand roads is a liability for transit, you will start to see more 'slippery surface' warning signs popping up - so forget blaming them when you have an accident on a poor quality road. It looks like you will have to go after the contractor.

[SPman]

Ah...this hobbyhorse again
My thoughts
(background - grew up on a farm - driving tractors at 12, cars at 13 1/2 Got my licence at 15 (+ 1 week) (Full), pilots license at 18)
Dont raise the driving age, but (theres always a but). Put far more effort into teaching car control and attitudinal training as a requisite for getting your restricted, than merely obeying regulations and steering the car down the middle of the road. I think most 15 y.o. drivers have a natural reluctance to go to totally apeshit, than when they hit 17-18, and are in full Testosterone flush. Better to get them a bit more upskilled before they hit that 18- ish wild time.
Compulsory insurance on cars - yes.
Dont know how you would police a power/power to weight restriction - as usual, the responsible types would obey, the normal fuckheads wouldnt give a shit and many young people who could handle them, would be bitching - just like bikes really. (think Scott Dixon...Chris Amon racing a Maserati 250 at 17, Bruce McLaren winning a F1 GP at 19!)
Most young drivers I know are quite competent - but then they have wanted to learn and have good attitudes and they all got their licences at 15-16. You can be a quick safe driver - its all about attitude - and not the bullshit advertising hijacking of attitude either. Like most people on sites like this, they have an interest in driving/riding, want to be competent and want to ensure they are as skilled as possible. I think it is better to catch people when they are a bit younger and more open to learning

There will always be the dickheads. - so should we punish the majority because of the actions of the minority, when the powers that be are too fucking anal to recognise the long term effectiveness of PROPER training?

Oh, sorry, this is NZ......

Slinks off to find his own utopia, where authorities actually GIVE a shit...

[Lou Girardin]

Here's something to think about.
Now that kids are driven to school and generally molly-coddled to within an inch of their lives, are we putting 15 year olds into cars with almost no experience of using the roads, ie. riding bikes, etc.
Does this factor justify raising the driving age to 18?
Personally, I think so.

[gamgee]

I think a better way of restricting the cars that learners can drive would be the cars rated horsepower, because of turbos, there's a huge difference in power between say a 1990 1.3l toyota starlet, and a 1990 1.3l toyota GT starlet

[SPman]

Here's something to think about.
Now that kids are driven to school and generally molly-coddled to within an inch of their lives, are we putting 15 year olds into cars with almost no experience of using the roads, ie. riding bikes, etc.
Does this factor justify raising the driving age to 18?

Hmmm - there is that All the kids I know push biked, walked, Bussed to school - only got lifts like us in exceptional circumstances. Also more metal roads around way back when - really good for learning car control on....

[Motu]

I can't believe this still keeps coming up,I'm almost set to give up with exhaustion.

I'm with SPman,15 yr olds are fine,they don't jump in a high powered car and go apeshit straight away - they do that after they have gained confidence,then overconfidence.The the most important thing is to gain access to a powerfull vehicle,generaly out of reach for most young kids.Both my daughters were driving before 15,the younger got her learners on her 15th birthday - my wife and her drove to Wellington and back a couple of weeks ago,I was releived to hear my daughter did most of the driving.

As for blaming the road???? I...I...I feel a seizure coming on,I'm gunna back away real slow....I'll be back on monday and hope this thread is buried and gone....