Spelling and grammer

[Tink]

Ok just read some posts on here, and I have to say I am tired of people commenting on the lack of spelling and grammer some people have on this site.

Not everyone is literate
Not everyone can go thru the school system a A student or even B
Not everyone gets it with their brain...their hands are the education
So be a little kinder, and just read the thread, if you don't understand what they are getting at pm them.

Its just polite not to pick on people.

And to top that off.... friends son failed school, but now is a top apprentice mechanic for a dude that deals with hot rods... and doing fantastically.

Tis xmas you know... be kind!

[Tank]

Indeed - However so many kids are so far from being able to write something that can be understood.

Pull them up on it. Give them shit.

I hate to put Dean up as a great example - but the kids post were some of the worst on here.

We could tell he was typing shit - but just could not understand what he was typing.

Over the time he has been on here he was given a ton of crap about it.

Now - whilst he still types shit in quantities that still amaze and astound - you can at least understand them and tell what he is going on about.

So tough love works - as long as the person on the end is willing to take a little time and effort (and Dean at least did that - and deserves credit for it).

[Slyer]

We are just encouraging people to try harder. If we settle for anything less spelling will just continue to deteriorate...

By the way, it's "Grammar".

[zeocen]

Grammar*

I left school half way through 7th form and failed every subject, every year, up until that time. English was one of my worst subjects.

However, with a little common sense and effort I managed to become the coherant and somewhat literate person I am today. Even my job requires me to be extremely precise on grammar and spelling.

If a stupid kid from South Auckland can manage to put some time aside to learn how to spell the words he says every day then anyone can - to not do so is just pure laziness.

[Tink]

Indeed - However so many kids are so far from being able to write something that can be understood.

Pull them up on it. Give them shit.

I hate to put Dean up as a great example - but the kids post were some of the worst on here.

We could tell he was typing shit - but just could not understand what he was typing.

Over the time he has been on here he was given a ton of crap about it.

Now - whilst he still types shit in quantities that still amaze and astound - you can at least understand them and tell what he is going on about.

So tough love works - as long as the person on the end is willing to take a little time and effort (and Dean at least did that - and deserves credit for it).

Sure tough love... and saying something politely, pm ing etc... but posting outright that he sounded like a idiot is not on... I have also had friends shoot themselves (fact), because of they were they were treated in life by relatives... its just a be wary attitude of what you say... in Deans case I don't know... but no one deserves a beating up about it.

[Tink]

We are just encouraging people to try harder. If we settle for anything less spelling will just continue to deteriorate...

By the way, it's "Grammar".


Grammar*

I left school half way through 7th form and failed every subject, every year, up until that time. English was one of my worst subjects.

However, with a little common sense and effort I managed to become the coherant and somewhat literate person I am today. Even my job requires me to be extremely precise on grammar and spelling.

If a stupid kid from South Auckland can manage to put some time aside to learn how to spell the words he says every day then anyone can - to not do so is just pure laziness.

so its obvious I am not a top speller..and I never will be (geordie spells for me) you don't get my point... some people no matter how hard they try, just don't improve.

[Tink]

In plain english... its how one is going about trying to educate the illiterate ... !!!

:msn-wink:

[zeocen]

No, I don't think you understand.
I was terrible at spelling and grammar, I'm also dyslexic so that made it equally as hard for me to figure out this crazy English thing. It was also the centre of hilarity and abuse from my friends and other people, I didn't like this, so I decided to actually put in some effort rather than feel defeated before even trying properly.

I don't want to blow my own horn, but I'm going to anyway! Because I truly was one of the worst. I couldn't even form proper sentences, and because of the ol' dyslexia, I couldn't get simple things like I and E around the correct way.

However, with a bit of effort I managed to become fairly literate and continue to expand my vocabulary day to day. Now I work in law and that provides me with challenges on words I have never heard before, and I love it, all it took was a little effort and dedication on my part to become a better person and everything fell into place. It can be said for any aspect of our lives, just this time, for me it was spelling and grammar.

There is no such thing as, "I can't." If you think that then the argument is already over and you've defeated yourself!

[The Everlasting]

Agreed,some people have a superiority complex.

I realise not everyone is able to spell/write properly,I'm not bothered by it,as long as I can read it..:D

[Slyer]

They will learn by example, by the magnificentness of my posts.
By far the best way to learn to spell is to read, read and read some more. Also, get a new browser if yours does not automatically spellcheck for you.

[Tink]

No, I don't think you understand.
I was terrible at spelling and grammar, I'm also dyslexic so that made it equally as hard for me to figure out this crazy English thing.

I don't want to blow my own horn, but I'm going to anyway! Because I truly was one of the worst. I couldn't even form proper sentences, and because of the ol' dyslexia, I couldn't get simple things like I and E around the correct way.

However, with a bit of effort I managed to become fairly literate and continue to expand my vocabulary day to day. Now I work in law and that provides me with challenges on words I have never heard before, and I love it, all it took was a little effort and dedication on my part to become a better person and everything fell into place. It can be said for any aspect of our lives, just this time, for me it was spelling and grammar.

There is no such thing as, "I can't." If you think that then the argument is already over and you've defeated yourself!

Fantastic then your one of the achievers I am impressed!

I work with dyslexic children every day... I know how hard it is for them.. and we have the best book this planet can offer to teach them, one of my students is doing fantastically thanks to the efforts in encouragement and positivity from myself and his teachers, and this book. I understand you completely... I just think laziness is not always the thing... plus typing is not a nack... I type way too fast.

[Virago]

I think you need to differentiate between the illiterate and the lazy. There are a few people who really struggle, but a lot more who simply choose the lazy way to write. No capitals or punctuation, no sentence or paragraph construction, txt spk nd l33t.

The irritation expressed on this site reflects society's aversion to such self-indulgent laziness, which was even encouraged (albeit briefly) by our "education system".

[Slyer]

Fantastic then your one of the achievers I am impressed!

I work with dyslexic children every day... I know how hard it is for them.. and we have the best book this planet can offer to teach them, one of my students is doing fantastically thanks to the efforts in encouragement and positivity from myself and his teachers, and this book. I understand you completely... I just think laziness is not always the thing... plus typing is not a nack... I type way too fast.
You are not the problem, there are far worse offenders on here. :bleh:

Also, l33tsp34k is even harder to write, Virago. ;)

[jrandom]

Not everyone is literate... Its just polite not to pick on people.

*wipes tears from eyes*

Actually, I've often wondered what it'd be like to be stupid. Would one be aware of it? Is it like being fat, or crippled?

Or is there just a sort of dim, pervasive bliss?

[XRVrider]

Sure tough love... and saying something politely, pm ing etc... but posting outright that he sounded like a idiot is not on... I have also had friends shoot themselves (fact), because of they were they were treated in life by relatives... its just a be wary attitude of what you say... in Deans case I don't know... but no one deserves a beating up about it.

No you're right, shouldnt beat em up... just a verbal slap, and a correction, thats how peeps realise they have made a mistake. It certainly dont mean you have to play superman off something really tall.

Everyone can write to some degree, but poor effort with spelling is weak. Computers have spell checkers and help you stop looking like an idiot, takes 2 seconds to use. We read papers, magazines, internet, so have ample opportunity to see how its done, I mean, a wee bit of effort and we all should be able to write a half way readable post.

[Tink]

I think you need to differentiate between the illiterate and the lazy. There are a few people who really struggle, but a lot more who simply choose the lazy way to write. No capitals or punctuation, no sentence or paragraph construction, txt spk nd l33t.

The irritation expressed on this site reflects society's aversion to such self-indulgent laziness, which was even encouraged (albeit briefly) by our "education system".

Agreed the lazy I don't forgive, and I hate text speak... you get my point!

[zeocen]

Oh don't get me wrong, I'm all for positive instruction! I didn't even know I had dyslexia until I did a few tests for it a few years ago.

I'm personally not one to corner someone on here for the number of spelling mistakes they make, but in saying that, there are some "special" cases that I feel just need to be battered around a bit to get the message. In that case, it is the lazy ones.

The people who actively try to better themselves in the language they speak every day should indeed get positive acknowledgement and support!

[AD345]

Learn to spell or suffer the, quite justified, slings and arrows of outraged others.

No-one ends up posting on an internet forum due to coercion, all do so by choice. Develop the skills to operate in your medium of choice or die (so to speak).

[Mumbles]

If I got critiqued :nono: every time I posted I’d never post, Never could spell at school and I still cant spell now. The stigma of the tease of school still haunts me. I have found a ways around my lack of spelling and it’s using technology to fix it for example I always write my post’s in MS word and spell check it, then I copy and paste it into the message.
I’ve been on KB for years now and try not to random post why, because of my lack of spelling ability and potential crap I’d get.

So critique others and they may stay and post (which is what KB is all about) you never know they may have knowledge that at some other stage that you require and could learn from, or critique and they go never to be seen again. I never give my mates shit if they can’t spell or add and I’d never give someone on KB shit about their spelling unless they asked for it or was having a go at me in real good England (yes I know I said England and not English). :niceone:

I think critique = bully :Pokey:

[Maha]

I have the odd slip up with the easiest of words at times but I pop back and correct them when I notice the wrong.

[cs363]

While I understand Rocketgal68's point, there really is no excuse for poor spelling on KB as there is a spell check option provided when posting. (See attached pic, it's circled in red) It's a one time download of a small program, and it makes your post easier to understand (and perhaps shows you the correct spelling). I just can't understand why people don't use this option if they have difficulties with spelling.
Grammar isn't quite so easily fixed, but at least if people can understand the words it's a step in the right direction!

[Naki Rat]

Agreed the lazy I don't forgive, and I hate text speak... you get my point!

Regarding the red bling I received from you regarding this post (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showpost.php?p=1766933&postcount=32), did you bother to check out Slamdogs later post (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showpost.php?p=1767809&postcount=67) to see how his "alliteracy" improved after being slagged by numerous members over his original barely understandable diatribe. Illiteracy or laziness :rolleyes:

My point was that if he intended to pursue the matter's procedural technicalities through the legal system then he needed to at least do so in a structured (grammatically and spelt) way or it would defeat the whole purpose of the exercise. If the magistrate can't understand the defence then it ain't going to be worth shit.

KB is always going have its fair share of contributers who struggle with their written skills; it's only to be expected when the common point of interest is of a technical nature. BUT when a post is made in language that presents an intellectual challenge just to work out what the hell is being talked about the 'back' button is usually pressed before the end of the first line. If the poster can't be arsed (and it is often sheer laziness) putting together a meaningful sentence then I figure their point is likely to be even more distorted.... Next please.

[Tink]

stigma of the tease of school still haunts me. I have found a ways around my lack of spelling and it’s using technology to fix it for example I always write my post’s in MS word and spell check it, then I copy and paste it into the message.

I think critique = bully :Pokey:

You must take forever to post, or have you become a expert at it now.. ;) good on you for hanging in there... some I imagine don't... can be disheartening to others.


I have the odd slip up with the easiest of words at times but I pop back and correct them when I notice the wrong.

ditto... no one is perfect... uh um

[Tink]

Regarding the red bling I received from you regarding this post (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showpost.php?p=1766933&postcount=32), did you bother to check out Slamdogs later post (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showpost.php?p=1767809&postcount=67) to see how his "alliteracy" improved after being slagged over his original bearly understandable diatribe. Illiteracy or laziness :rolleyes:

My point was that if he intended to pursue the matter's procedural technicalities through the legal system then he needed to at least do so in a structured (grammatically and spelt) way or it would defeat the whole purpose of the exercise. If the magistrate can't understand the defence then it ain't going to be worth shit.

KB is always going have its fair share of contributers who struggle with their written skills; it's only to be expected when the common point of interest is of a technical nature. BUT when a post is made in language that presents an intellectual challenge just to work out what the hell is being talked about the 'back' button is usually pressed before the end of the first line. If the poster can't be arsed (and is often sheer laziness) putting together a meaningful sentence then I figure their point is likely to be even more distorted.... Next please.

Could you not have pm'd him, rather than blatently wrote it in public, that was my point.. and it seems I was not the only one that red blinged you... you may think your an expert at the english language... but give the guy a break... lazy or not, I think he gets it now, good job batman.

[YellowDog]

*wipes tears from eyes*

Actually, I've often wondered what it'd be like to be stupid. Would one be aware of it? Is it like being fat, or crippled?

Or is there just a sort of dim, pervasive bliss?
That's what cocaine's for.

[Tink]

KB is always going have its fair share

I naturally added the too.. minor typo... ;)

[rainman]

Fantastic then your one of the achievers I am impressed!

If we could fix just this one thing, my temptation to jump on the keyboard and scream would be much reduced.... Minor spelling/grammar I can overlook, but some things just make the writer sound, um, impaired. "Your" vs "You're" is one. If we don't correct this, it'll become common use, I fear.



Actually, I've often wondered what it'd be like to be stupid. Would one be aware of it? Is it like being fat, or crippled?

Or is there just a sort of dim, pervasive bliss?

Deep. Perhaps it's like driving - more than 50% think they're above average. Or maybe the best you can ever get is the sense that there are others smarter than you, and others dumber. Intelligence being such a multifaceted and poorly defined thing doesn't help, of course.

[Naki Rat]

Could you not have pm'd him, rather than blatently wrote it in public, that was my point.. and it seems I was not the only one that red blinged you... you may think your an expert at the english language... but give the guy a break... lazy or not, I think he gets it now, good job batman.

There was one other (than you) but seems you were in the minority.


If we could fix just this one thing, my temptation to jump on the keyboard and scream would be much reduced.... Minor spelling/grammar I can overlook, but some things just make the writer sound, um, impaired. "Your" vs "You're" is one. If we don't correct this, it'll become common use, I fear.


I agree mightily on that point, and include the there/their/they're confusion that increasingly happens. Totally different words in meaning but so often it appears the user is totally oblivious to their blunder :no:

[Naki Rat]

I naturally added the too.. minor typo... ;)

And I corrected your post from too to to as it should be :rolleyes:

[The Everlasting]

I naturally added the too.. minor typo... ;)



Haha yeah noticed that myself,everyone makes mistakes...

[Dean]

Indeed - However so many kids are so far from being able to write something that can be understood.

Pull them up on it. Give them shit.

I hate to put Dean up as a great example - but the kids post were some of the worst on here.

We could tell he was typing shit - but just could not understand what he was typing.

Over the time he has been on here he was given a ton of crap about it.

Now - whilst he still types shit in quantities that still amaze and astound - you can at least understand them and tell what he is going on about.

So tough love works - as long as the person on the end is willing to take a little time and effort (and Dean at least did that - and deserves credit for it).
Here we go again with Dean this Dean that.
My spelling and grammar hadn't been as bad as the likes of others, I dont think Ive ever done full text talk on here.

This video is fitting. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Az-efllrGmE

[Ronin]

Here we go again with Dean this Dean that.
My spelling and grammar hadn't been as bad as the likes of others, I don't think I've ever done full text talk on here.



Sorry, just had to.

[gijoe1313]

so everthink is done good proper like in this hear place and time than! i mean, sum people cant put there ps' and qs' in the rightest of places at times and than they does get putted into there places. too me, that is showings the ways England is being sprunked now!

and I think that at least we all does cares enough 4 us 2 spreak up about it! im sure it is hilarity to read sum postages and the misteaks that do come through!

peace out 4eva! :msn-wink:

[paddy]

I think you need to differentiate between the illiterate and the lazy. There are a few people who really struggle, but a lot more who simply choose the lazy way to write. No capitals or punctuation, no sentence or paragraph construction, txt spk nd l33t.

The irritation expressed on this site reflects society's aversion to such self-indulgent laziness, which was even encouraged (albeit briefly) by our "education system".

+1


(10 chars)

[paddy]

This video is fitting. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Az-efllrGmE

Thanks Dean - that was hilarious. :-)

[zeocen]

so everthink is done good proper like in this hear place and time than! i mean, sum people cant put there ps' and qs' in the rightest of places at times and than they does get putted into there places. too me, that is showings the ways England is being sprunked now!

and I think that at least we all does cares enough 4 us 2 spreak up about it! im sure it is hilarity to read sum postages and the misteaks that do come through!

peace out 4eva! :msn-wink:

Somewhere, your dictionary is crying.
Yes, THAT dictionary.

[MotoKuzzi]

[QUOTE=jrandom;1129588468
Or is there just a sort of dim, pervasive bliss?....[/QUOTE]
I prefer this scenario it's so comforting:msn-wink:

[Tink]

sigh...

My new years resolution is to ignore threads I don't understand, and if I am interested I will pm them... rather than drag their improper England thru the mud in a thread that has nothing to do with England... <<< I like that....

If we were all the same, what a boring world this would be....

[Tink]

here we go again with dean this dean that.
My spelling and grammar hadn't been as bad as the likes of others, i dont think ive ever done full text talk on here.

This video is fitting. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=az-efllrgme

brilliant hahahahhaha

[Grahameeboy]

so its obvious I am not a top speller..and I never will be (geordie spells for me) you don't get my point... some people no matter how hard they try, just don't improve.

More to life than grammar...I was born in London where the Queen lives but my bad grammar is just my dialect.....

[Tink]

More to life than grammar...I was born in London where the Queen lives but my bad grammar is just my dialect.....

My family are from Lec/London...and my fella is a geordie... know where your coming from... on the other side of the fence I work with children that have speech problems and reading/spelling/writing.... its hard work, but they try hard, hence maybe where the lazy comes in... but still no need to make a big deal about it... I still say if anyone does not make sense take them aside and explain it...

[Ixion]

*wipes tears from eyes*

Actually, I've often wondered what it'd be like to be stupid. Would one be aware of it? Is it like being fat, or crippled?

Or is there just a sort of dim, pervasive bliss?

The uncharitable might suggest that you have just answered your own question. :bleh:

[oldguy]

so long as you under stand the message, what does it matter.

[EJK]

James while John had had had had had had had had had had had a better effect on the teacher.

If the police police police police, who polices the police police? Police police police police police police.

Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo.

Funny or not, they are all grammatically correct sentences. Read more here. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffalo_buffalo_Buffalo_buffalo_buffalo_buffalo_Bu ffalo_buffalo)

[Naki Rat]

so long as you under stand the message, what does it matter.

Sure, but a problem arises when the spelling and grammar falls to such a level that understanding the poster's intended point is pretty much a lottery.

[Hitcher]

Ok just read some posts on here, and I have to say I am tired of people commenting on the lack of spelling and grammer some people have on this site.

Not everyone is literate
Not everyone can go thru the school system a A student or even B
Not everyone gets it with their brain...their hands are the education
So be a little kinder, and just read the thread, if you don't understand what they are getting at pm them.

Its just polite not to pick on people.

And to top that off.... friends son failed school, but now is a top apprentice mechanic for a dude that deals with hot rods... and doing fantastically.

Tis xmas you know... be kind!

The BDOTGNZA isn't as vigilant as it once was. But if some people find sloppiness in written English acceptable, good on them.

[Hitcher]

In plain english... its how one is going about trying to educate the illiterate ... !!!

:msn-wink:

Capped off with a Smilie! Gahh! Thud.

[Maha]

Some threads (and yes, even some single posts) can only be best summed by Eric Idle..


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[Tink]

Move on if you can't read it.... or be a little more tactful and pm them... how many times does that need to be said... some of you lot may not have feelings.... but shit happens, and some do!!!!

And once again I work with kids with spelling reading etc grammer problems... I know how hard it is...

DON'T UNDERSTAND IT MOVE ON BOYZ ;)

[Hitcher]

Fantastic then your one of the achievers I am impressed!

I work with dyslexic children every day... I know how hard it is for them.. and we have the best book this planet can offer to teach them, one of my students is doing fantastically thanks to the efforts in encouragement and positivity from myself and his teachers, and this book. I understand you completely... I just think laziness is not always the thing... plus typing is not a nack... I type way too fast.

Ngggggggggg.

[paddy]

Some threads (and yes, even some single posts) can only be best summed by Eric Idle..

Wow. I suspect that was really hard to do given that they don't seem to be reading from a prompter.

[Hitcher]

Agreed the lazy I don't forgive, and I hate text speak... you get my point!

Please stop misusing ellipses. It's irritatingly unnecessary.

[Tink]

Please stop misusing ellipses. It's irritatingly unnecessary.

EXXXCUSSSSSSSE ME if everyone can swear their heads off...and use explicite language on here I can use as MANY mis used ellipses as much as I like...

GET OVER IT!!! LOL

[paddy]

Please stop misusing ellipses. It's irritatingly unnecessary.

Surely that statement should have ended with five or six exclamation marks (or exclamation points if you are that way inclined). :-)

[Tink]

To be honest your on a biker site... who cares how one speaks,,, if you want better grammer go to a grammer site... unbelievable...all I am saying is have a heart not everyone is the same... doh!

[The Everlasting]

The BDOTGNZA isn't as vigilant as it once was. But if some people find sloppiness in written English acceptable, good on them.




Even you make mistakes..:laugh:

[tri boy]

You can use eclipse's?
I thought they just appeared, then moved on. I'll catch one next time.............................................. .................................................. ................................

[Virago]

To be honest your on a biker site... who cares how one speaks,,, if you want better grammer go to a grammer site... unbelievable...all I am saying is have a heart not everyone is the same... doh!

I went to a grammar website once - she was amazing once she took her teeth out...

[Hitcher]

To be honest your on a biker site... who cares how one speaks,,, if you want better grammer go to a grammer site... unbelievable...all I am saying is have a heart not everyone is the same... doh!

All I'm saying is sloppy is as sloppy does. Doh!

And you can save yourself a lot of keystrokes by using a correct full stop at the end of a sentence, rather than the incorrect ellipses.

[Tink]

I went to a grammar website once - she was amazing once she took her teeth out...

good one :first:

[Dean]

I went to a grammar website once - she was amazing once she took her teeth out...

No wonder why you always give me infractions, Hitcher put your teeth back in so I can lay off the heat...while you're laying something down.

Have a nice day :)

[Cheshire Cat]

*wipes tears from eyes*

Actually, I've often wondered what it'd be like to be stupid. Would one be aware of it? Is it like being fat, or crippled?

Or is there just a sort of dim, pervasive bliss?

you should know, fattie.

[Cheshire Cat]

The BDOTGNZA isn't as vigilant as it once was. But if some people find sloppiness in written English acceptable, good on them.

and if some people don't, good on them.

plus this is not written. it is typed. things have changed from 100 years ago and will continue to change. so get the fuck over it :lol:

[Maha]

Wow. I suspect that was really hard to do given that they don't seem to be reading from a prompter.

Ironic aint it? and yet there are people who find it a simple task on here...:clap:

[Slyer]

Here we go again with Dean this Dean that.
My spelling and grammar hadn't been as bad as the likes of others, I dont think Ive ever done full text talk on here.
You tend try to "Spruce" up your posts a lot, to the point that they don't make any sense. Reread your post.

Here is my order of priorities for a post: Coherence->Grammar->Spelling->Formatting->Punctuation

[Geordie Roadrunner]

The BDOTGNZA isn't as vigilant as it once was. But if some people find sloppiness in written English acceptable, good on them.

Gan canny or we'll dunsh summick!

[PrincessBandit]

I have to say I'm one of those who have to resist wanting to correct people's spelling and grammar. There are many times I've typed rubbish (way it's typed, as well as dubious content) particularly when I'm tired.

As a general rule though, while I find it annoying constantly trying to overlook dreadful English, I understand that some people find it just too hard to correct themselves. Then again, most people don't self-correct because they're oblivious to what needs fixing....

[Tink]

No wonder why you always give me infractions, Hitcher put your teeth back in so I can lay off the heat...while you're laying something down.

Have a nice day :)


You tend try to "Spruce" up your posts a lot, to the point that they don't make any sense. Reread your post.

Here is my order of priorities for a post: Coherence->Grammar->Spelling->Formatting->Punctuation

You forgot something!!!!! Humour... this is a rather long thread... I guess you didn't read all of it... not everyone is the same... and if they were it would be a boring world... mind you proberly safer...

[Hitcher]

Interestingly, spelling and grammar threads are surprisingly popular on Kiwi Biker.

I think it's a sadomasochistic thing. Particularly when I leave my teeth in.

[Tink]

I have to say I'm one of those who have to resist wanting to correct people's spelling and grammar. There are many times I've typed rubbish (way it's typed, as well as dubious content) particularly when I'm tired.

As a general rule though, while I find it annoying constantly trying to overlook dreadful English, I understand that some people find it just too hard to correct themselves. Then again, most people don't self-correct because they're oblivious to what needs fixing....

Thankyou PB.. maybe that was a nail I missed...the obvious side. Somethings are not obvious to others, yet still using the correct means of correcting is better than shoving it ones face. :) btw Happy New Year lovely, have some more riders keen to go out. Hope to catch up soon, must tell Caseye I am riding a lot better too.

[Mom]

Thankyou PB.. maybe that was a nail I missed...the obvious side. Somethings are not obvious to others, yet still using the correct means of correcting is better than shoving it ones face. :) btw Happy New Year lovely, have some more riders keen to go out. Hope to catch up soon, must tell Caseye I am riding a lot better too.

Well now, you wont be the first to raise this issue on here, nor will you be the last. I actually feel myself cringe when I read some of the amazing renditions of written english that I read on here. I have almost no time for the shorthand/text type posters, that is plain insulting and should be actively excised from this forum as far as I am concerned. So, anyone that serves up a lazy poster gets my vote to keep slapping. I also support an open forum *gentle slap* reminder to others about using "UNGLAND AS IT SHULD BE USED"

But...


It it obvious that there are some members that are actually trying their best, despite being given the forum tease/lesson, and the spell check advice. While their posts are phonetic to read at best, we start to see full stops and capital letters, heaven forbid we sometimes see a comma. Hitcher waits for an apostophy with baited breath.

I used to tease Hitcher for dissing my ............

See, I learned not to do that, I use 3 now, sometimes, when it suits.

I either read it or not. I hope that the ones that use the impossible to read way of typing do actually get their advice, trouble is most of the people that might advise them wont attempt to read the crap that is posted. So serve them up for it.

We can all cock up our england. But at least it should be legible in my mind.

[Tink]

Lol after one gin and a wine... that sank in... I agree with improving but not the way its done... :)

PS I even know 3 ellipses are required... one uni paper helped with that.... 20 odd more will improve my grammer... hopefully spelling lol

Happy new year!!!

[wbks]

No wonder why you always give me infractions, Hitcher put your teeth back in so I can lay off the heat...while you're laying something down.

Have a nice day :)oh snap" you thought your'e already infracted to, hell!

[Dean]

You tend try to "Spruce" up your posts a lot, to the point that they don't make any sense. Reread your post.

Here is my order of priorities for a post: Coherence->Grammar->Spelling->Formatting->Punctuation

But If I posted like you guys I would be another blind following sheep, another peasent subject to todays mainstream society the forehead to "The Man's" facepalm. Spelling and Grammer how you guys want me to- how about I post what and how I want. I dont aim to meet your standards only MY own. Independant Thinking.

[caseye]

Thankyou PB.. maybe that was a nail I missed...the obvious side. Somethings are not obvious to others, yet still using the correct means of correcting is better than shoving it ones face. :) btw Happy New Year lovely, have some more riders keen to go out. Hope to catch up soon, must tell Caseye I am riding a lot better too.

Duly noted, if it's not raining on Wednesday afternoonsay 5 pm at your place? perhaps we could go somewhere , the other half is also progressing well and I'm sure would enjoy a pootle out.let me know.
Grammar, spelling, diction etc, it' is all symptomatic of our education systems steady decline into, as long as you can read it, it's OK.
Those that want to, will imnprove themsleves, the others either don't know how or can't be bothered.
Not alot any of us can do for them except offer our help and support if it's asked for.
Dyslexia is a real Pain in the Bum, I still put things back to front.Books, reading and fan bloody tastic teachers saved this poor wretch from a life of no books and the English Language.

[wbks]

But If I posted like you guys I would be another blind following sheep, another peasent subject to todays mainstream society the forehead to "The Man's" facepalm. Spelling and Grammer how you guys want me to- how about I post what and how I want. I dont aim to meet your standards only MY own. Independant Thinking. The subject is spelling and grammar, not societal ideology for fucks sake...

[Ronin]

The subject is spelling and grammar, not societal ideology for fucks sake...

Dude, I would have gone with Gah, thud.

[Edbear]

*wipes tears from eyes*

Actually, I've often wondered what it'd be like to be stupid. Would one be aware of it? Is it like being fat, or crippled?

Or is there just a sort of dim, pervasive bliss?


Speaking of wiping tears from one's eyes... :rofl::rofl::rofl::killingme:killingme:killingme Too easy...


All I'm saying is sloppy is as sloppy does. Doh!

And you can save yourself a lot of keystrokes by using a correct full stop at the end of a sentence, rather than the incorrect ellipses.

But, but, but... I like ellipses... :yes:

[Tink]

Duly noted, if it's not raining on Wednesday afternoonsay 5 pm at your place? perhaps we could go somewhere , the other half is also progressing well and I'm sure would enjoy a pootle out.let me know.
Grammar, spelling, diction etc, it' is all symptomatic of our education systems steady decline into, as long as you can read it, it's OK.
Those that want to, will imnprove themsleves, the others either don't know how or can't be bothered.
Not alot any of us can do for them except offer our help and support if it's asked for.
Dyslexia is a real Pain in the Bum, I still put things back to front.Books, reading and fan bloody tastic teachers saved this poor wretch from a life of no books and the English Language.

Sounds like a plan!

[Dave Lobster]

To be honest your on a biker site... who cares how one speaks,,, if you want better grammer go to a grammer site... unbelievable...all I am saying is have a heart not everyone is the same... doh!


My family are from Lec/London...and my fella is a geordie... know where your coming from... on the other side of the fence I work with children that have speech problems and reading/spelling/writing.... its hard work, but they try hard, hence maybe where the lazy comes in... but still no need to make a big deal about it... I still say if anyone does not make sense take them aside and explain it...

It is YOU'RE!

[scumdog]

Wow!
I spent almost ten minutes reading this thread and it's THE funniest thread I've read on KB for a long time!:clap:

Keep it up peoples....:msn-wink:

[MadDuck]

.... there really is no excuse for poor spelling on KB as there is a spell check option provided when posting. (See attached pic, it's circled in red)

In all my time here you know I never noticed that :niceone:

[jeffs]

Srroy I am hvinag a rael peblrom rdeiang tihs tahred, can you witre in the new Egnlsih olny, so the rset of us can raed it ?

Bad Egnlsih or good Egnlsih , we all hvae bnrais, taht can do pttaen rcegoiniton try usieng tehm :)

[Slyer]

But If I posted like you guys I would be another blind following sheep, another peasent subject to todays mainstream society the forehead to "The Man's" facepalm. Spelling and Grammer how you guys want me to- how about I post what and how I want. I dont aim to meet your standards only MY own. Independant Thinking.
Yet again you prove me right, PEASANT. ;)
But by all means continue how you wish, you are here for our entertainment afterall.

[The Everlasting]

Srroy I am hvinag a rael peblrom rdeiang tihs tahred, can you witre in the new Egnlsih olny, so the rset of us can raed it ?

Bad Egnlsih or good Egnlsih , we all hvae bnrais, taht can do pttaen rcegoiniton try usieng tehm :)



Haha that is getting on the verge of unreadable..:p :lol:

[jeffs]

Haha that is getting on the verge of unreadable..:p :lol:

On the verge, but not over :)

[Tink]

In all my time here you know I never noticed that :niceone:

no attachment :) that I can see... oops sorry S... mduck... me either

[boomer]

so its obvious I am not a top speller..



(Ella ella, eh eh eh)
Under my umbrella
(Ella ella, eh eh eh)
Under my umbrella
(Ella ella, eh eh eh)
Under my umbrella
(Ella ella, eh eh eh, eh eh eh)



<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/y9oBe3t9uYo&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/y9oBe3t9uYo&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[Grasshopperus]

To those who question the value of proper English. Look at these two sentences:

1. I helped my uncle Jack off the horse
2. I helped my uncle jack off the horse

The use of a capital letter really changes the meaning here.

Jrandom, that weird daze-thing that stupid people get, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect It's a quick, interesting read. I think we're probably all afflicted by this to some degree.

[Tank]

Here we go again with Dean this Dean that.
My spelling and grammar hadn't been as bad as the likes of others, I dont think Ive ever done full text talk on here.

This video is fitting. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Az-efllrGmE

You missed the point - I was complementing you and giving credit for the effort you have obviously made to improve the grammar in your post.

Perhaps you are gun shy from some of my other post about you - but I was being genuine and honest in the praise about how you have improved (not that I think praise from me means anything - but hey take it when its offered).

[marigami]

Well in my honest and rather naive foreigner point of view (i really deserve compliments for this!!) I can say that I don't always understand all your posts and the way you write.
IMO it seems some of you write as they speak,I mean with your NZ accent.
Remember,I am french and english is definitly not my mother tongue.
And I am sure that some of my posts were not very clear with bad vocabulary and grammar.
But it is also true that internet, like texting some words on mobiles or others,allows lots of shortcuts and others which can make messages very difficult to catch unless very clever (:msn-wink:) or used to.
Which i'm not (clever or used to :msn-wink:).
But i also see some of your posts as i very good way for me to learn "new zealander" language as I do whish to come over and settle so you're helping me to learn quicker and be ready to deal with the "natives" :msn-wink:)

[Winston001]

Ok just read some posts on here, and I have to say I am tired of people commenting on the lack of spelling and grammar some people have on this site.

Not everyone is literate

Its just polite not to pick on people.

Tis xmas you know... be kind!

Kimmy - look at moi look at moi - now apologise to Sharon/Hitcher and the rest of us in the BDOTGNZA. Someone has to uphold the standards in this family. :drool:


I think you need to differentiate between the illiterate and the lazy. There are a few people who really struggle, but a lot more who simply choose the lazy way to write. No capitals or punctuation, no sentence or paragraph construction, txt spk nd l33t.

The irritation expressed on this site reflects society's aversion to such self-indulgent laziness, which was even encouraged (albeit briefly) by our "education system".

Exactly. Spot on.

Rocketgal your sentiments are born of kindness and sympathy towards people who are dyslexic or simply struggle with written English. You have my respect.

However my view is many people who write unintelligible posts do so because they genuinely think it is acceptable. For some arcane reason we have a generation who think the normal rules of written communication do not apply on the internet. Go figure. :spanking:

I don't accept the lack of education plea having watched my own daughter who received an English prize, lapse into grammatical drivel online. She knows better but doesn't care. Where did I go wrong......???? (Laughs Out Loud)

Posters who jump into any internet forums which I frequent world-wide, are given short shrift if they cannot be read and understood. Goodness knows with spell-checkers it isn't hard to get a message across.

Indeed some of the people who do not have English as their first language are remarkably correct.

[Winston001]

There are two spelling exceptions which are embraced by all - gargre and sprotsbike. These are iconic. :niceone:

[JATZ]

There are two spelling exceptions which are embraced by all - gargre and sprotsbike. These are iconic. :niceone:

Yebut, what about "prolly" m8 :lol:

[Dean]

You missed the point - I was complementing you and giving credit for the effort you have obviously made to improve the grammar in your post.

Perhaps you are gun shy from some of my other post about you - but I was being genuine and honest in the praise about how you have improved (not that I think praise from me means anything - but hey take it when its offered).

I understand now and will tell you this because I dont think I had told you this in the past.

When I first joined Kiwi Biker I had no clue with English at school, the grades were failing far from other learners. Wbks can recall when I didn't even know basic Grammar (mostly because there were some pitfalls in earlier life).

Through help from Hitcher, Wbks, you and at general reading people's posts I had got better and more I think the word is 'eloquent'. I had some of the best scores in my class, Excellence in extended written text and Merit in visual oral text! Who would of thought Kiwi Biker could have such a profound impact. So I thankyou all.

I am definitely grateful I think for the most part my 'creative writing' far excels other learners because :clap: *snicker* I'm known to tell tales on here but good ones. And yes I actually got Excellence in Drama too, the teacher told me I have a natural talent with devising Drama, Comedy and Improvisation so now the kettle can finally call the pot black! Maybe Kiwi Biker taught me some of that too, really I think the teacher was saying im a successful troll on stage and off.

So a big hug to you all, despite our differences, shortcomings, Ignores I will share this one moment in peace.:grouphug:

[davebullet]

Don't you want to learn? I mean if you are riding a bike like crap and a more experienced rider says "here's a better way", you say "fuck off, don't pick on me?"

Language is something to be preserved. I'm always after improving myself... If someone picks on my spelling or grammar, then I've learned something. Don't be insecure and get over it. Learn or repeat your mistakes at your peril.... mwahahahahahaha!

[Tink]

While I understand Rocketgal68's point,!

Thankyou, I did not know it was there.


It is YOU'RE!

That I am afraid is my typing, not my brain, I know it is you are (you're)...


Kimmy
.

I am sorry Winny but I do not apologise to anyone regarding this thread, I enjoyed the banter, and I still in my heart believe, it is how you educate (or correct someone in this case)... some of these posters can be quite in ones face, and some are actually nice about it. THAT IS ONLY MY POINT.

[Tink]

Don't you want to learn? I mean if you are riding a bike like crap and a more experienced rider says "here's a better way", you say "fuck off, don't pick on me?"

Language is something to be preserved. I'm always after improving myself... If someone picks on my spelling or grammar, then I've learned something. Don't be insecure and get over it. Learn or repeat your mistakes at your peril.... mwahahahahahaha!

Ok I get your point, but I don't think some understand mine, see above! If someone was rude to me about my riding, I would look else where for a teacher. Simple.

[scumdog]

Ok I get your point, but I don't think some understand mine, see above! If someone was rude to me about my riding, I would look else where for a teacher. Simple.

Even if they were correct in their judgement of your riding?

[Tink]

Even if they were correct in their judgement of your riding?

Yes, because I think rudeness is uncalled for... simple.

[The Everlasting]

Ok I get your point, but I don't think some understand mine, see above! If someone was rude to me about my riding, I would look else where for a teacher. Simple.


but they don't need to be rude to tell you your doing something wrong,it can be said nicely.

[Tink]

but they don't need to be rude to tell you your doing something wrong,it can be said nicely.

As it can be explained nicely that ones spelling & grammer is not the best, it's how one expresses oneself, example: manners, this I think also has gone down the toilet in society, if some think they are setting a example of good grammer & spelling then they need to look at how they are doing it.

[The Everlasting]

As it can be explained nicely that ones spelling & grammer is not the best, it's how one expresses oneself, example: manners, this I think also has gone down the toilet in society, if some think they are setting a example of good grammer & spelling then they need to look at how they are doing it.



Yeah indeed,people need to be nice and use their manners when correcting someone,be it spelling or riding or whatever.

[Dave Lobster]

Even if they were correct in their judgement of your riding?

Have you EVER had positive feedback when critiquing a woman??

[scumdog]

Have you EVER had positive feedback when critiquing a woman??

Well normajeane is still with me.....does that count?:whistle:

[Edbear]

You missed the point - I was complementing you and giving credit for the effort you have obviously made to improve the grammar in your post.

Perhaps you are gun shy from some of my other post about you - but I was being genuine and honest in the praise about how you have improved (not that I think praise from me means anything - but hey take it when its offered).

It's "complimenting"... :whistle:


Yes, because I think rudeness is uncalled for... simple.

Depends on the situation... ;)

Main Entry: rude
Pronunciation: \ˈrüd\
Function: adjective
Inflected Form(s): rud·er; rud·est
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French, from Latin rudis; probably akin to Latin rudus rubble
Date: 14th century
1 a : being in a rough or unfinished state : crude b : natural, raw <rude cotton> c : primitive, undeveloped <peasants use rude wooden plows — Jack Raymond> d : simple, elemental <landscape done in rude whites, blacks, deep browns — Richard Harris>
2 : lacking refinement or delicacy: a : ignorant, unlearned b : inelegant, uncouth c : offensive in manner or action : discourteous d : uncivilized, savage e : coarse, vulgar
3 : marked by or suggestive of lack of training or skill : inexperienced <rude workmanship>
4 : robust, sturdy <in rude health>
5 : occurring abruptly and disconcertingly <a rude awakening>

— rude·ly adverb

synonyms rude, rough, crude, raw mean lacking in social refinement. rude implies ignorance of or indifference to good form; it may suggest intentional discourtesy <rude behavior>. rough is likely to stress lack of polish and gentleness <rough manners>. crude may apply to thought or behavior limited to the gross, the obvious, or the primitive <a crude joke>. raw suggests being untested, inexperienced, or unfinished <turning raw youths into polished performers>.


Well normajeane is still with me.....does that count?:whistle:

She's an amazing woman... :2thumbsup

[Genie]

While I understand Rocketgal68's point, there really is no excuse for poor spelling on KB as there is a spell check option provided when posting. (See attached pic, it's circled in red) It's a one time download of a small program, and it makes your post easier to understand (and perhaps shows you the correct spelling). I just can't understand why people don't use this option if they have difficulties with spelling.
Grammar isn't quite so easily fixed, but at least if people can understand the words it's a step in the right direction!

thanks....i wondered where one of those thingy whatsit might be.....ah the joy of spellcheck....hahaha......

[Genie]

To those who question the value of proper English. Look at these two sentences:

1. I helped my uncle Jack off the horse
2. I helped my uncle jack off the horse

The use of a capital letter really changes the meaning here.

Jrandom, that weird daze-thing that stupid people get, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect It's a quick, interesting read. I think we're probably all afflicted by this to some degree.

I'm blonde and had to read this twice before I "clicked".

Very amusing. Laugh Out Loud!

[Naki Rat]

I understand now and will tell you this because I dont think I had told you this in the past.

When I first joined Kiwi Biker I had no clue with English at school, the grades were failing far from other learners. Wbks can recall when I didn't even know basic Grammar (mostly because there were some pitfalls in earlier life).

Through help from Hitcher, Wbks, you and at general reading people's posts I had got better and more I think the word is 'eloquent'. I had some of the best scores in my class, Excellence in extended written text and Merit in visual oral text! Who would of thought Kiwi Biker could have such a profound impact. So I thankyou all.

I am definitely grateful I think for the most part my 'creative writing' far excels other learners because :clap: *snicker* I'm known to tell tales on here but good ones. And yes I actually got Excellence in Drama too, the teacher told me I have a natural talent with devising Drama, Comedy and Improvisation so now the kettle can finally call the pot black! Maybe Kiwi Biker taught me some of that too, really I think the teacher was saying im a successful troll on stage and off.

So a big hug to you all, despite our differences, shortcomings, Ignores I will share this one moment in peace.:grouphug:

Very well (and eloquently) put. My thought is this: Was your improvement due to those on KB kicking your (virtual) arse in ways that the education system failed to?

[Dean]

Very well (and eloquently) put. My thought is this: Was your improvement due to those on KB kicking your (virtual) arse in ways that the education system failed to?

Yes I do believe so, members kicked me into gear (virtually) way more then Teachers at school could. The power of peer pressure to reform.

[Tink]

Yes I do believe so, members kicked me into gear (virtually) way more then Teachers at school could. The power of peer pressure to reform.

Not everyone is as brave as you, so it seems! Good on you for changing for the good, and braving the grammar police, to improve yourself.

But once again those grammar police don't get my point. ah sigh as she slips into oblivion... TUI!!! lol

[wbks]

Not everyone is as brave as you, so it seems! Good on you for changing for the good, and braving the grammar police, to improve yourself.

But once again those grammar police don't get my point. ah sigh as she slips into oblivion... TUI!!! lolWhat is your point?

[Naki Rat]

Not everyone is as brave as you, so it seems! Good on you for changing for the good, and braving the grammar police, to improve yourself.

But once again those grammar police don't get my point. ah sigh as she slips into oblivion... TUI!!! lol


What is your point?

At the risk of firing up a slanging match, the point is that the current education system is selling its students short by allowing them to be wrapped in cotton wool rather than be exposed to the realities of the big wide world. Rocketgal68's attitudes are just an expression of the education system she is part of.

[Ixion]

There are two spelling exceptions which are embraced by all - gargre and sprotsbike. These are iconic. :niceone:

You have omitted prak, crusier (and , debateably, tourier), and worngA . We owe much to Mr Sk8r-Boi.





I had some of the best scores in my class, Excellence in extended written text and Merit in visual oral text


Well done. But, WTF is "visual oral text". It sounds a contradiction in terms. How can 'text' be 'oral' ?

Personally I have no problem with how anyone spells . Or grams. Or puncts. The meaning is usually clear enough (and the whole point of txt is that it IS understandable). The innernettubes are not , by and large, a formal place. There is a time for strict formality and a time for colloquialism. Both are acceptable, in their own place. And da England is a flexible thing.

[Tink]

At the risk of firing up a slanging match, the point is that the current education system is selling its students short by allowing them to be wrapped in cotton wool rather than be exposed to the realities of the big wide world. Rocketgal68's attitudes are just an expression of the education system she is part of.

I was going to hide in a corner and watch, but thought I might mention that I work under the Cambridge Education system.. not the NZ one. :)

[Tink]

What is your point?

My point has been pointed out I don't know how many times on this thread... shall I point it out again... don't blame you if you have not read the whole thread, its getting rather long... can we kill it please.

peace love & mungbeans to Hitcher Naki rat & whomever else does not understand that we are all not the same... and I will admit the typing skills were a a bit under the weather last night, I can contribute wine to that!

:done:

[Dean]

Well done. But, WTF is "visual oral text". It sounds a contradiction in terms. How can 'text' be 'oral' ?

Visual oral text: Is a movie we studied in class, we do a formal essay on it mentioning the use of soundtracks, lighting etc. Hence 'visual' and 'oral'.

Extended written text is a Novel we studied in class in which we write a formal essay about it and the use of etc etc.

[MikeL]

Amazing that a discussion of language can bring out such a slew of insecurities, prejudices and mindless mud-slinging. At least it shows that language matters. FWIW (as someone who has spent a lifetime studying and teaching language and languages) here are some random observations:
1. Language is a processs of two-way communication. Any "noise" in the message means that the recipient has to work harder to decode it. At worst, faulty pronunciation, spelling, grammar, vocabulary or punctuation can render the message ambiguous or incomprehensible, but even less serious errors increase the processing required in the listener or reader's brain. I used to work with Asian students and doing four speaking tests in an hour invariably left me with a headache, such was the intense concentration needed to understand them. To ease the burden on the recipient of your communication is common courtesy; to do otherwise, when you have the opportunity to make the effort, is laziness or arrogance.
2. Blame for the "dumbing down" that has incontestably occurred in the teaching of English over the last thirty years needs to be shared between the education system itself and society in general (there is a very clear "chicken and egg" situation here). Schools no longer teach grammar, spelling and punctuation seriously because the teachers don't have the knowledge or skills themselves to do so. A generation or so ago there was a radical change in the approach to language teaching that was effectively a reaction to what was seen as a narrow, prescriptive and tedious teaching programme which stifled children's creativity. At the time there was a very clear message from the theorists that teaching "correct" spelling and grammar was simply a means of social control. We are now reaping what those educational theorists of the 60s and 70s sowed.
3. Knowledge is power. The ability to use language effectively is of immense importance politically and economically. Look at the advertising industry or political spin doctors. A society with a high level of literacy (not measured by a crude yardstick of "who can read and who can't", but by ability to understand complex language) is less easy to manipulate. It is frightening to contemplate the future when you know that a large proportion of Form 7 students are unable to follow a sentence that runs to any more than about two lines, because they have forgotten the beginning by the time they arrive at the end.

[Grahameeboy]

At the risk of firing up a slanging match, the point is that the current education system is selling its students short by allowing them to be wrapped in cotton wool rather than be exposed to the realities of the big wide world. Rocketgal68's attitudes are just an expression of the education system she is part of.

And how does Grammar expose kids to the big wide world??...don't you have to go out into the big wide world to be exposed.....take Richard Branson....he was no good at school yet has businesses in the big wide world and is the 261st richest person in the world.

Sorry but what you say just does not add up

[Ixion]

Things have indeed changed since my day.

Writing a critical essay on a novel we called English Literature. But movies are now part of the English curriculum? Tempora mutantur, I guess.

[scumdog]

KB is great!
It (and probably other sites) drags illiterates and lazy writers kicking and screaming up to what is an acceptable level of literacy.

The above types may have slipped through school without getting up to the mark grammar/spelling/punctuation wise but hoo-boy, KB fixes a lot of that!:2thumbsup

And while some moan about this KB 'process' those that get slagged off about the quality of their posts keep coming back time after time and do improve (or as a few may have; leave when the heat is too much) - as one poster at least has said - it got him up to a level of literacy that nobody quibles about his posts anymore.

I guess it's a 'learning from your elders' kind of thing..

[Grahameeboy]

KB is great!
It (and probably other sites) drags illiterates and lazy writers kicking and screaming up to what is an acceptable level of literacy.

The above types may have slipped through school without getting up to the mark grammar/spelling/punctuation wise but hoo-boy, KB fixes a lot of that!:2thumbsup

And while some moan about this KB 'process' those that get slagged off about the quality of their posts keep coming back time after time and do improve (or as a few may have; leave when the heat is too much) - as one poster at least has said - it got him up to a level of literacy that nobody quibles about his posts anymore.

I guess it's a 'learning from your elders' kind of thing..

Praise to Scumdogallah

[Mikkel]

That I am afraid is my typing, not my brain, I know it is you are (you're)...

Considering your earlier claim, in this thread, that you have no sympathy for the lazy, this might warrant reflection. I for one refuse to believe that you consistently mistype you're as your.


Yes I do believe so, members kicked me into gear (virtually) way more then Teachers at school could. The power of peer pressure to reform.

Only the weak submit to peer pressure.

Realising and acknowledging the error of your ways and then doing something about it is a hallmark of strength of character.

[tri boy]

You lot still squabbling about gram ma:mad:
I told you, I locked her in the woodshed on xmas eve.
Let the ol biddy out:Playnice:

[Maha]

How would/was you or in this case I/we ever get to the same resolution/point with he/her at the other end pulling/pushing for all their/your might in the other direction as the onlookers square off/on while she/he or her/him has not a chance?

[Ixion]

You lot still squabbling about gram ma:mad:
I told you, I locked her in the woodshed on xmas eve.
Let the ol biddy out:Playnice:

Only if she puts her teeth back in !

[allycatz]

If I had judged everyone I have ever met according to their ability to spell, type or grammatical ability, I would have missed out on some incredible friendships

[Grahameeboy]

if i had judged everyone i have ever met according to their ability to spell, type or grammatical ability, i would have missed out on some incredible friendships

+10............................

[Maha]

+10............................


God looks uopn thee and thy wisdom to quote unto thee for he has cometh not 9th but 10th.

[scumdog]

If I had judged everyone I have ever met according to their ability to spell, type or grammatical ability, I would have missed out on some incredible friendships

Oh I still judge them as per above alright - and they're still incredible friends!:2thumbsup

One has even started a new form of English known to KBers as 'Dangerese'.

[Naki Rat]

And how does Grammar expose kids to the big wide world??...don't you have to go out into the big wide world to be exposed.....take Richard Branson....he was no good at school yet has businesses in the big wide world and is the 261st richest person in the world.

Sorry but what you say just does not add up

I was not referring solely to grammar but more the wider education system.

Children's socialisation starts as infants interacting with (mostly) their parents. The schooling system takes the reins for much of a person's formative years, followed by employers and/or tertiary educators. By the time little Johnnie or Julie is in their late teens the mold has been pretty well set and they are fully interacting with society on their own two feet.

The problem as I see it is that PC or busy parents all too often take the soft option in the early years in terms of setting boundaries and exposing kids to the negative repercussions of their (the children's) actions. The schooling system now takes over the socialisation of said child with an education system that increasingly rewards mediocracy and fails to identify failure. That includes spelling and grammar which in themselves are usually not life or death matters but the personal discipline that goes with honing one of our most concise communication skills is a valuable socialisation building block in its own right.

Little Johnnie/Julie then reaches NCEA level and gains a fistful of credits in all manner of virtually useless activities, many of which in the past were regarded as basic lifeskills that earned one a kicked arse if they weren't adopted as a matter of course. So out they head into the workplace and the great wide world to discover, for often the first time in their lives, that when they get it wrong life has a bad habit of giving you a kicking. And shock horror they have no-one to blame but themselves.

The reality check that this results in comes as one hell of a shock and increasingly we are seeing the fallout from this in the form of antisocial behaviour, failure to cope with responsibility, teen suicide and emotional mayhem. Our society is increasingly setting up the young for failure which most do not have the slightest clue how to deal with. Richard Branson is obviously made of much tougher stuff, most aren't.

An analogy would be to allow a child to ride a bicycle in a padded environment with little or no chance of injury. Then let him or her progress to a similarly 'safe' environment to learn motorcycle skills. That rider has never experienced the mental check that a painfull 'off' would imprint on them. Result is that the first accident out in the real world is more likely to be a serious one, and they probably ain't going to see it coming. Oh, and they will immediately blame everyone but themselves.

Question: Who is to blame?

[scumdog]

Naki Rat speak the truth.

Kids are PC'd and molly-codled to death these days.

I could tell you many stories to support this, especially from my job experience.

"Go away, you can't touch me" is a frequent one as they are cuffed/placed in the back of the car, followed by tears when for the first time in their life they realise they can't lie/bluff/promise/wheedle/threaten their way out of a predicament. (that will likely have further consequences too)

'But that's not fair, sob, sob" - welcome to the real world....

[Dave Lobster]

Question: Who is to blame?

The Labour party, of course.:2thumbsup

[Grahameeboy]

I was not referring solely to grammar but more the wider education system.

Okay

Children's socialisation starts as infants interacting with (mostly) their parents. The schooling system takes the reins for much of a person's formative years, followed by employers and/or tertiary educators. By the time little Johnnie or Julie is in their late teens the mold has been pretty well set and they are fully interacting with society on their own two feet.

Kids still spend time with their parents. Nats was at Kindercare at 1...to me it has served her well given her disability...

The problem as I see it is that PC or busy parents all too often take the soft option in the early years in terms of setting boundaries and exposing kids to the negative repercussions of their (the children's) actions. The schooling system now takes over the socialisation of said child with an education system that increasingly rewards mediocracy and fails to identify failure. That includes spelling and grammar which in themselves are usually not life or death matters but the personal discipline that goes with honing one of our most concise communication skills is a valuable socialisation building block in its own right.

Of course often the parent telling the kid not to do what they did wrong...not a bad thing...but agree it is too easy for parents to be negative instead of constructive

Average is still not bad and the higher % are Average....I still think that rewarding for being average is good...better than not...as the risk is that they may go backwards....

Little Johnnie/Julie then reaches NCEA level and gains a fistful of credits in all manner of virtually useless activities, many of which in the past were regarded as basic lifeskills that earned one a kicked arse if they weren't adopted as a matter of course. So out they head into the workplace and the great wide world to discover, for often the first time in their lives, that when they get it wrong life has a bad habit of giving you a kicking. And shock horror they have no-one to blame but themselves.

The reality check that this results in comes as one hell of a shock and increasingly we are seeing the fallout from this in the form of antisocial behaviour, failure to cope with responsibility, teen suicide and emotional mayhem. Our society is increasingly setting up the young for failure which most do not have the slightest clue how to deal with. Richard Branson is obviously made of much tougher stuff, most aren't.


I am not sure that school is to blame for this.

Read these reason for teen suicide.

Turn it on it's head....kid gets great grades...rewarded...leaves school....cannot get the job they want.

a psychological disorder, especially depression (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/parent/emotions/feelings/understanding_depression.html), bipolar disorder, and alcohol (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/parent/positive/talk/alcohol.html) and drug use (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/parent/positive/talk/talk_about_drugs.html) (in fact, approximately 95% of people who die by suicide have a psychological disorder at the time of death)
feelings of distress, irritability, or agitation
feelings of hopelessness and worthlessness that often accompany depression (a teen, for example, who experiences repeated failures at school, who is overwhelmed by violence at home, or who is isolated from peers is likely to experience such feelings)
a previous suicide attempt
a family history of depression or suicide (depressive illnesses may have a genetic component, so some teens may be predisposed to suffer major depression)
physical or sexual abuse
lack of a support network, poor relationships with parents or peers, and feelings of social isolation
dealing with homosexuality in an unsupportive family or community or hostile school environment

An analogy would be to allow a child to ride a bicycle in a padded environment with little or no chance of injury. Then let him or her progress to a similarly 'safe' environment to learn motorcycle skills. That rider has never experienced the mental check that a painfull 'off' would imprint on them. Result is that the first accident out in the real world is more likely to be a serious one, and they probably ain't going to see it coming. Oh, and they will immediately blame everyone but themselves.

But surely the idea is to be better than average and not crash and feel the pain...adults blame others...kids will do that..it's how we deal with this that is important...

Question: Who is to blame?

Life dude



.............................

[Edbear]

Oh I still judge them as per above alright - and they're still incredible friends!:2thumbsup

One has even started a new form of English known to KBers as 'Dangerese'.

Aren't they jeans..? ;)


Naki Rat speak the truth.

Kids are PC'd and molly-codled to death these days.

I could tell you many stories to support this, especially from my job experience.

"Go away, you can't touch me" is a frequent one as they are cuffed/placed in the back of the car, followed by tears when for the first time in their life they realise they can't lie/bluff/promise/wheedle/threaten their way out of a predicament. (that will likely have further consequences too)

'But that's not fair, sob, sob" - welcome to the real world....

Sooner or later, they have to get that. Unfortunately, too many parents want to ensure they never do. :(

[Grahameeboy]

Naki Rat speak the truth.

Kids are PC'd and molly-codled to death these days.

I could tell you many stories to support this, especially from my job experience.

"Go away, you can't touch me" is a frequent one as they are cuffed/placed in the back of the car, followed by tears when for the first time in their life they realise they can't lie/bluff/promise/wheedle/threaten their way out of a predicament. (that will likely have further consequences too)

'But that's not fair, sob, sob" - welcome to the real world....

That is a sweeping generalisation though as you will only be exposed to the bad stuff....

Maybe the outcome of their mistakes is a good thing...

[scumdog]

That is a sweeping generalisation though as you will only be exposed to the bad stuff....

Maybe the outcome of their mistakes is a good thing...

Yep, mostly a whole lot of youn 'uns out there can get their shit sorted out by themselves DESPITE their education/upbringing (overprotective or lazy parents), but when those as described can't? - the outcome is tragic (for them)

[Grahameeboy]

Yep, mostly a whole lot of youn 'uns out there can get their shit sorted out by themselves DESPITE their education/upbringing (overprotective or lazy parents), but when those as described can't? - the outcome is tragic (for them)

Thats life though in all dimensions....adults cannot often sort their shit out...I think it's part of being human and our acceptance that life was not meant to be perfect...maybe it's the human race / society that is all wrapped up in cotton wool which makes society often very negative instead of embracing all that life does have to offer...

You look back through the centuries....it's human nature...yes life is tragic (which I could atest too) but it is more often than not magic too...

[jeffs]

I thought of contributing a lot more to this thread, but since I have dyslexia, I just could not be assed.

Why ?
because people who do not understand it, ridicule,
and people who do understand it pity.
Since I am to old to appreciate either,
let the people who can only read English, if it is written perfectly, carry on missing a colourful world not open to them.

BTW I do have an education and a good job, one that can see me for what I am, and not how I spell.

So if you can not understand what I have written above, because it is grammatically incorrect and badly spelled.

I will just smile back at you, and with out putting it in writing, In my head, say what I really think of you :)

[Hitcher]

Dyslexia, unless clinically diagnosed, is a word often misused by people with varying learning disorders.

There are many amongst us who have worked hard to overcome cognitive and other disabilities. Some of those don't hide behind "dyslexia" as a convenient excuse for other shortcomings.

[Naki Rat]

.............................http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showpost.php?p=1129590470&postcount=134

So, is most of your reply to my post actually a confirmation of what I said, or am I missing something ?

[jeffs]

Dyslexia, unless clinically diagnosed, is a word often misused by people with varying learning disorders.

There are many amongst us who have worked hard to overcome cognitive and other disabilities. Some of those don't hide behind "dyslexia" as a convenient excuse for other shortcomings.

So those of us that "have" been clinically diagnosed as dyslexic are all hiding behind the medical institutions that have diagnosed us then ?

And there I was thinking I had dyslexia after being tested, and all the time I should have come to you to get diagnosed as a bad speller.

Or as I said :) " ... " just thought it, and did not put it in writing.

[davebullet]

Ok I get your point, but I don't think some understand mine, see above! If someone was rude to me about my riding, I would look else where for a teacher. Simple.

Fair call. There is the polite way and the rude way. The message may be the same, but it can be sent considerately.

[YellowDog]

The funnist one I remember was when someone on here said that as money was a bit tight he was going to "Porn the wife".

I presume that the Porn shop is next door to the Pawn shop :rofl:

[Subike]

OK here is a dumb asses question.
You talk about using the spelling and or grammer check before entering your post.
How do you do that?
A step by step guide for a dummy is needed :Playnice:

[Hitcher]

So those of us that "have" been clinically diagnosed as dyslexic are all hiding behind the medical institutions that have diagnosed us then ?

Only if dyslexia affects your powers of comprehension.

[Grahameeboy]

So, is most of your reply to my post actually a confirmation of what I said, or am I missing something ?

You are missing something

[YellowDog]

OK here is a dumb asses question.
You talk about using the spelling and or grammer check before entering your post.
How do you do that?
A step by step guide for a dummy is needed :Playnice:
This is a BBS. Unless you totally screw up, don't worry.

But if you are now totally self conscious about it, then type it in a word processor where you can grammar and spell check, then copy and paste it into KB.

Easy peasy!

[wbks]

At the risk of firing up a slanging match, the point is that the current education system is selling its students short by allowing them to be wrapped in cotton wool rather than be exposed to the realities of the big wide world. Rocketgal68's attitudes are just an expression of the education system she is part of.I don't think it's that "they" are wrapped in cotton wool, it's that most of "them" are too lazy to make the effort, and so long as their basic errors in spelling and grammar aren't "overly intrusive" it doesn't have any result, so there isn't much incentive anyway.


You have omitted prak, crusier (and , debateably, tourier), and worngA . We owe much to Mr Sk8r-Boi.





Well done. But, WTF is "visual oral text". It sounds a contradiction in terms. How can 'text' be 'oral' ?

Personally I have no problem with how anyone spells . Or grams. Or puncts. The meaning is usually clear enough (and the whole point of txt is that it IS understandable). The innernettubes are not , by and large, a formal place. There is a time for strict formality and a time for colloquialism. Both are acceptable, in their own place. And da England is a flexible thing.A visual oral text is usually a movie that you analyze


My point has been pointed out I don't know how many times on this thread... shall I point it out again... don't blame you if you have not read the whole thread, its getting rather long... can we kill it please.

peace love & mungbeans to Hitcher Naki rat & whomever else does not understand that we are all not the same... and I will admit the typing skills were a a bit under the weather last night, I can contribute wine to that!

:done:I wasn't being sarcy, I couldn't be bothered reading all the pages. So you think that people having shitty grammar/spelling is because everyone is different? Apart from people that have had reasonably serious head injuries or have some kind of disorder (which I'm not trying to trivialize) I can't say I've ever known anyone to have such shitty language skills as seen on KB some times, unless they just don't give a shit/are too lazy. Is being "different" what that is about?


Things have indeed changed since my day.

Writing a critical essay on a novel we called English Literature. But movies are now part of the English curriculum? Tempora mutantur, I guess.Some people promote changing with the times to suit the coming years, and some complain that it's stupid...

[robboh]

This is a BBS. Unless you totally screw up, don't worry.

But if you are now totally self conscious about it, then type it in a word processor where you can grammar and spell check, then copy and paste it into KB.

Easy peasy!

Or use a Mac, which has both a dctionary and theasarus, available in a "correct as you type" mode, in any text entry box; including the web browser :-)

[caseye]

Dyslexia, unless clinically diagnosed, is a word often misused by people with varying learning disorders.

There are many amongst us who have worked hard to overcome cognitive and other disabilities. Some of those don't hide behind "dyslexia" as a convenient excuse for other shortcomings.

ADHD would have to be this countries biggest foil to kids being treated as normal, exuberant, energy filled little balls of fire.
I agree that many people, young and old are given information that is at best misleading and at worst damnd well criminally negligent.
Dyslexia is easily enough tested and while some may simply see some letters backwards, others see every word that way.
I was diagnosed at 4 yrs of age, unable to read or write, my Kindergarten teacher and her flat mate a Physical training teacher at the local high school, took an interest in me.
They made sure I got plenty of big! books to read and lots of reading and writing exercises.It helped that they and my parents were great friends and that we saw them very regularly, but for those two and the time they spent with me, I'd possibly have turned out a lot worse.
Dianne Strawbridge and Yvonne Poole take a bow, I still love you both dearly.

[robboh]

Only if dyslexia affects your powers of comprehension.

The "better half" put herself through four years of nursing and midwifery training as a dyslexic. I never hear her mention it, to the point where I commonly forget she has any such issues. And to top that off, she now holds a charge role. But she does struggle with movie sub titles :-)

On the other hand, one of the brighter junior engineers at work (IT) also has dslexia, but DOES hide behind it on occasion.

[jeffs]

i've heard it all now, What crap

So see if I get this right.

You can only use KB if you use correct spelling ( American spell checked ) and grammar ?

People, get over yourselves, this is a web chat room, not f****g Charles Dickens.

What sort of people do you think use this site ? Only people with English literature and linguistics Degrees ?

I'll show you how great the spell checker is on this site.

Aluminum
Color
Airplane


And my favorite "ASS" !!!!!!!!!!

Not a red line under anything, so it must be right, the spell checker says it is :)

BTW I do have a degree and I spell like shit :lol:

[wbks]

i've heard it all now, What crap

So see if I get this right.

You can only use KB if you use correct spelling ( American spell checked ) and grammar ?

People, get over yourselves, this is a web chat room, not f****g Charles Dickens.

What sort of people do you think use this site ? Only people with English literature and linguistics Degrees ?

I'll show you how great the spell checker is on this site.

Aluminum
Color
Airplane


And my favorite "ASS" !!!!!!!!!!

Not a red line under anything, so it must be right, the spell checker says it is :)Wrong.
tenchars

[Ixion]

Quote:
<table border="0" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td class="alt2" style="border: 1px inset ;"> Originally Posted by Ixion http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?p=1129590349#post1129590349)
Things have indeed changed since my day.

Writing a critical essay on a novel we called English Literature. But movies are now part of the English curriculum? Tempora mutantur, I guess.
</td> </tr> </tbody></table>
Some people promote changing with the times to suit the coming years, and some complain that it's stupid...


Yes. Tempora mutantur.

Nos et mutamur. We didn't have oral texts, y'see. But we did have Latin. Dunno if youff have won or lost on that exchange.

[jeffs]

Wrong.
tenchars

Probably, usually am :) Well on KB at least :hug:

[wbks]

Yes. Tempora mutantur.

Nos et mutamur. We didn't have oral texts, y'see. But we did have Latin. Dunno if youff have won or lost on that exchange.From my limited understanding, English (if you trace back enough) is derived from Latin, which is why they say privately educated students have a better understanding of English... I probably lost on that one. I'd rather learn Latin then learn the symbolism behind Whale Rider...

[Winston001]

There is a substantial Latin base to the English language but the origins are truely mixed. There is an excellent Wikipedia artcle here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_language

[Hawkeye]

Gan canny or we'll dunsh summit!

Av corikted that for yer Geordie.

[Dave Lobster]

BTW I do have a degree and I spell like shit :lol:

I think this sums up this thread perfectly. People consider themselves to be bright, simply because they have a degree. While people with degrees may well be bright, it is not necessarily so.

[scumdog]

I think this sums up this thread perfectly. People consider themselves to be bright, simply because they have a degree. While people with degrees may well be bright, it is not necessarily so.

Does a degree of scepticism and cynicism make me bright and count for much??;)

[James Deuce]

I think this sums up this thread perfectly. People consider themselves to be bright, simply because they have a degree. While people with degrees may well be bright, it is not necessarily so.

Nope. Quite the opposite.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

The less ignorant someone is, generally the less capable one feels. The biggest crime of the last 50 years was the "Me" generation telling their kids they could do and be anything and that being "happy" is the chief goal of life.

I don't have a degree and I don't care whether or not someone else has one either. People who make it an issue need to ask themselves about their own insecurities, but having a degree or at least some form of formalised "study" will open doors. Why it shuts doors in NZ is a mystery to me, but certainly accounts for why NZ struggles to retain decent graduates and business people.

[Slyer]

I'll show you how great the spell checker is on this site.

Aluminum
Color
Airplane


And my favorite "ASS" !!!!!!!!!!

Not a red line under anything, so it must be right, the spell checker says it is :)
It's not KB's spell checker, it's YOUR browser's spell checker that you neglected to set up correctly. If you are using Firefox, download the British version or get the British English dictionary.

[Dave Lobster]

Nope. Quite the opposite.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

The less ignorant someone is, generally the less capable one feels. The biggest crime of the last 50 years was the "Me" generation telling their kids they could do and be anything and that being "happy" is the chief goal of life.

I don't have a degree and I don't care whether or not someone else has one either. People who make it an issue need to ask themselves about their own insecurities, but having a degree or at least some form of formalised "study" will open doors.

My point was that having a degree doesn't make someone bright. More that the more stupid amongst us that do have degrees feel that the degree makes them more clever than they are - to which your (reposted) link alludes.



Why it shuts doors in NZ is a mystery to me, but certainly accounts for why NZ struggles to retain decent graduates and business people.

Too much of the chest beating munter mentality. That, and the wages here are shite.

[Naki Rat]

My point was that having a degree doesn't make someone bright. More that the more stupid amongst us that do have degrees feel that the degree makes them more clever than they are - to which your (reposted) link alludes.
......

The university education system also has a habit of instilling a uniformity of thought on students thereby reducing the initiative of mainstream entrants.

[Dave Lobster]

The university education system also has a habit of instilling a uniformity of thought on students thereby reducing the initiative of mainstream entrants.

ie, they can tell you exactly what the volume of a jar is. But not how to fucking open it.

[James Deuce]

My point was that having a degree doesn't make someone bright. More that the more stupid amongst us that do have degrees feel that the degree makes them more clever than they are - to which your (reposted) link alludes.




My link doesn't allude to that at all. It says that ignorant people over rate their personal abilities and knowledge and that less ignorant people do the opposite.

Generally.

Generally speaking from my personal experience the more qualified and knowledgeable a person is the more generous of their time and experience they are, and the more humble they are. Provided the audience is listening. They will not give an inch when they know their subject matter however, and this can make less knowledgeable people anxious and defensive. Especially in NZ where a university education is sure fire way to make sure that people will respect you less than a wife beating professional sports person.

I don't agree with your basic premise at all. There's still a general prejudice in NZ against any form of higher education and it is often expressed by pointing at some wet behind the ears graduate and holding them up as representative of all degreed people. A lack of experience is just that. Experience successfully combined with a bit of knowledge can be a liberating and powerful thing.

The OP shows evidence of this bias by insisting that people who can write are all superior wankers who shouldn't be sharing their knowledge and experience because it makes people feel "bad".

[Slyer]

Agreed.

Anti-intellectualism
Unlike many European countries, but in common with other 'Anglo' countries such as Britain, the United States and Australia,[citation needed] New Zealanders do not have a particularly high regard for intellectual activity, particularly if it is more theoretical than practical. This is linked with the idea of 'kiwi ingenuity' (see above), which supposes that all problems are better solved by seeing what works than by applying a theory.[19] This distrust of theory manifested itself in social policy of the early and mid twentieth century, which historian Michael Bassett described as 'socialism without doctrines': although the policies of the first Labour and other governments pursued traditionally socialist goals, they were not based on any coherent theory.[20] A major break with this tradition came in the 1980s when the fourth Labour and fourth National governments enacted a series of reforms based on free market ideology. This reinforced many New Zealanders' distrust of intellectual theory, as many consider that the reforms increased poverty and inequality in New Zealand. Despite the prevailing mood of anti-intellectualism, New Zealand has reasonably high rates of participation in tertiary education and has produced a number of internationally renowned scholars and scientists, including Ernest Rutherford, J.G.A. Pocock and Alan MacDiarmid. It should be noted that both Rutherford and Pocock spent most of their professional lives in Britain. For many years this was a common occurrence, and a consequence both of New Zealanders' attitudes and the low population which made it hard to support major research.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_of_New_Zealand#Anti-intellectualism

[wbks]

Agreed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_of_New_Zealand#Anti-intellectualismMakes us sound like a bunch of hicks screaming "evil" at science...

[scissorhands]

I have sometimes been bullied by my mates when I have expounded some knowledgable rant on a pet topic I have researched.

And called a kitchen bitch when I have prepared delicious food.

After a frustrating meeting of minds, the phrase 'bunch of hicks', could sit quite well with me.

[Dave Lobster]

Makes us sound like a bunch of hicks screaming "evil" at science...

King Tamaki has nine thousand of them.. I'm quite sure the catholic church has even more.

:angry:

[wbks]

King Tamaki has nine thousand of them.. I'm quite sure the catholic church has even more.

:angry:The Catholics were always fucked...
That wiki page seems about right, though

[MikeL]

ie, they can tell you exactly what the volume of a jar is. But not how to fucking open it.

Although it would clearly be disadvantageous to live in a society where the majority of people could calculate the volume of a jar but be unable to open it, nevertheless it is important that society have some members who know the formula for the volume of a cylinder and other apparently useless knowledge.
The anti-intellectualism noticeable in Australia and New Zealand mystifies Europeans, who manage to have respect for both practical skills and higher learning.
The irony is that in the past, when a university education was a rarity and trades were considered respectable, even "professional" people usually had practical skills (gardening, basic car maintenance, DIY...), while nowadays young people have been conned into believing that working with your hands is only for losers, so they rush off to university and emerge three years later with a BCom and a huge millstone round their neck, thinking the world owes them a living. But can they plant a garden, change a tap washer, build a cabinet?
Perhaps they can at least open a jar. But even with their university degree they probably can't tell you the formula for the volume of a cylinder, either.

[Edbear]

Although it would clearly be disadvantageous to live in a society where the majority of people could calculate the volume of a jar but be unable to open it, nevertheless it is important that society have some members who know the formula for the volume of a cylinder and other apparently useless knowledge.
The anti-intellectualism noticeable in Australia and New Zealand mystifies Europeans, who manage to have respect for both practical skills and higher learning.
The irony is that in the past, when a university education was a rarity and trades were considered respectable, even "professional" people usually had practical skills (gardening, basic car maintenance, DIY...), while nowadays young people have been conned into believing that working with your hands is only for losers, so they rush off to university and emerge three years later with a BCom and a huge millstone round their neck, thinking the world owes them a living. But can they plant a garden, change a tap washer, build a cabinet?
Perhaps they can at least open a jar. But even with their university degree they probably can't tell you the formula for the volume of a cylinder, either.

Interesting point. By the way, I agree with your sig.:2thumbsup

[Ixion]

Although it would clearly be disadvantageous to live in a society where the majority of people could calculate the volume of a jar but be unable to open it, nevertheless it is important that society have some members who know the formula for the volume of a cylinder and other apparently useless knowledge.
The anti-intellectualism noticeable in Australia and New Zealand mystifies Europeans, who manage to have respect for both practical skills and higher learning.
The irony is that in the past, when a university education was a rarity and trades were considered respectable, even "professional" people usually had practical skills (gardening, basic car maintenance, DIY...), while nowadays young people have been conned into believing that working with your hands is only for losers, so they rush off to university and emerge three years later with a BCom and a huge millst one round their neck, thinking the world owes them a living. But can they plant a garden, change a tap washer, build a cabinet?
Perhaps they can at least open a jar. But even with their university degree they probably can't tell you the formula for the volume of a cylinder, either.

But, paradoxically, those same people who are devoid of practical capability are also devoid of erudition. They are turned out of the universities with a good deal of learning, but little education.

A truly educated person understands tap washers AND sonnets AND trigonometry. Or, at the least understands why he should want to understand all of them.

The Elizabethans said that a gentleman should have as many facets , and as variously directed, as a well cut diamond.

[Edbear]

But, paradoxically, those same people who are devoid of practical capability are also devoid of erudition. They are turned out of the universities with a good deal of learning, but little education.

A truly educated person understands tap washers AND sonnets AND trigonometry. Or, at the least understands why he should want to understand all of them.

The Elizabethans said that a gentleman should have as many facets , and as variously directed, as a well cut diamond.

Ah, you mean like a jack of all trades... :2thumbsup

[Subike]

You can aquire all the knowlage the world has to offer you,
Be taught in the best schools or universities that money can buy.
Be elequent in poetry, music and have read all the classics,
But unless you have the wisdom to use all of this,
you are worth no more,
than the begger on the street corner

[Gen]

Fantastic then your one of the achievers I am impressed!

I work with dyslexic children every day... I know how hard it is for them.. and we have the best book this planet can offer to teach them, one of my students is doing fantastically thanks to the efforts in encouragement and positivity from myself and his teachers, and this book. I understand you completely... I just think laziness is not always the thing... plus typing is not a nack... I type way too fast.

I dated a dyslexic guy.he had trouble giving directions eg: differentiating between right and left etc.Facinating people to talk with but very frustrating at times as they can think and process differently.Most people can improve if they really want to.And if they can't, I accept it and move on.;)

[Pussy]

And if you don't try hard at school, you could end up becoming an ag pilot.
DAMHIK

[Hitcher]

I dated a dyslexic guy.he had trouble giving directions eg: differentiating between right and left etc.Facinating people to talk with but very frustrating at times as they can think and process differently.Most people can improve if they really want to.And if they can't, I accept it and move on.;)

That left and right thing is a complete mystery to me. Mirrors don't help with that at all. Coping with it requires some concentration. And it's not about "improvement" it's about adapting.

[MikeL]

But, paradoxically, those same people who are devoid of practical capability are also devoid of erudition. They are turned out of the universities with a good deal of learning, but little education.

A truly educated person understands tap washers AND sonnets AND trigonometry.

The problem is that the meaning of "education" has changed. The "truly educated person" you refer to is an old-fashioned concept, a relic from another world and by today's criteria of efficiency hopelessly over-educated. The new model is the technocrat, a bean-counter's dream, with sufficient in-depth skill for a specialised job and nothing else. Why should a physicist need to know what a sonnet is?

[Slyer]

The problem is that the meaning of "education" has changed. The "truly educated person" you refer to is an old-fashioned concept, a relic from another world and by today's criteria of efficiency hopelessly over-educated. The new model is the technocrat, a bean-counter's dream, with sufficient in-depth skill for a specialised job and nothing else. Why should a physicist need to know what a sonnet is?
Specialisation is a good thing. There's enough worthless shit people have to learn at uni as it is...

[scumdog]

Specialisation is a good thing. There's enough worthless shit people have to learn at uni as it is...

There's enough worthless shit you learn in life too.

Why would I ever need to know the bore and stroke of a 460 Ford V8 - or what the letter Q on vin of a '66 Thunderbird means f'rinstance....now ask me why I struggle to remember CBs birthday however..?:confused:

[James Deuce]

Specialisation is a good thing. There's enough worthless shit people have to learn at uni as it is...

Seriously it isn't. It's about economic control of human capital. That and the efforts to limit people's capacity to communicate despite having the best tools ever are at the root of your ACC levy increase.

[Dave Lobster]

now ask me why I struggle to remember CB's birthday, however..?:confused:

That's just male genes.

[Ixion]

Ah, you mean like a jack of all trades... :2thumbsup

Quite so. The ideal is to be a jack of all trades, and a master of one (or a few)

[bikemike]

I'll have to go back and read some more, but...


The problem is that the meaning of "education" has changed. The "truly educated person" you refer to is an old-fashioned concept, a relic from another world and by today's criteria of efficiency hopelessly over-educated. The new model is the technocrat, a bean-counter's dream, with sufficient in-depth skill for a specialised job and nothing else. Why should a physicist need to know what a sonnet is?

Actually, I posit that 'nothing else' is not what they are after. What they like is what I have heard called 'T-shaped' people, being those that excel in their specialised area but who are also able to effectively communicate with, and contribute to the efforts of, those in adjacent skills/responsibilities - etc.

Also, on the former point, the first would remind me of someone who has educated himself for his own and others' benefit. The second reminds me more of the job seeker, and this is the tragedy of education today. The meaning of education has been supplanted, and what was training and apprenticeship is now the heavy price of entry to the modern workforce.

[Ixion]

... Why should a physicist need to know what a sonnet is?

Oh, reason not the need
Allow but Nature Nature's need
And man's life were cheap as beast's.

The answer of course is because such knowledge makes him a more complete human being. And a happier one.Homo sum: humani nil a me alienum puto.

[Grasshopperus]

Specialisation is a good thing. There's enough worthless shit people have to learn at uni as it is...

A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.

-Robert A. Heinlein


My link doesn't allude to that at all.

THE Link...

[Motu]

what the letter Q on vin of a '66 Thunderbird means

It means your VIN plate was restamped in Otara - take it to a cop,they are supposed to know all about these things.....

[Slyer]

A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.

-Robert A. Heinlein
He's a bit short sighted then...
I'm not saying that everyone should be fundamentally useless except one thing, the idea is that everyone can do most things well enough but are exceptionally good at a certain job. It's the advantage of living with a large population.
Imagine if everyone were equally skilled at engineering, medicide, accounting and programming. Nobody would excel at anything thus no technological advances could be made.
There is just no way it would work.

[MikeL]

Homo sum: humani nil a me alienum puto.

The fact that you can quote Terence in the original marks you as one of those hopelessly over-educated relics of the past. The decline (and inevitable demise) of Latin as a school subject in this country reflects the changed perception of education. Latin is not an easy subject to master, requiring concentrated effort over a long period of time. Its benefits are not immediately apparent, and cannot be linked directly to any vocation (other than teaching Latin!) It is scarcely surprising that, in the few schools that continue to teach it, Latin struggles to justify its existence against strong opposition from other departments. Tempora mutantur, indeed. Time was when "education" meant the classics and very little else.
But I don't fully accept the "nos mutamur in illis" unless by "we" you mean society in general. Not all change is progress, and I'm quite happy to be labelled a dinosaur for refusing to go along with the trend.

[Gen]

That left and right thing is a complete mystery to me. Mirrors don't help with that at all. Coping with it requires some concentration. And it's not about "improvement" it's about adapting.

In regards to the'" improvement'comment I made I was thinking along the lines of people who are bad spellers......my son may be dyslexic but it's too soon to tell for sure.His biological father is dyslexic.
I found it helps to say ""this is left"" and point left.Then he knew exactly what way we needed to go (when following map directions).Hell I had learning difficulties as a child and I don't think the way most of you would.My understanding of a situation or comments can be miles out of the ball park in comparison to others.I don't often reach the same conclusion because I have read the information differently.This is a challenge to explain!! :dodge:

[Grasshopperus]

Imagine if everyone were equally skilled at engineering, medicide, accounting and programming. Nobody would excel at anything thus no technological advances could be made.
There is just no way it would work.

The quote doesn't mention that the person would have to be the best, or expert, at any of those particular abilities only that he should be able to perform them. Being able to perform and being skilled in something are not the same, there's room for those who excel to do so.


I'm not saying I know how to "set a broken bone", "design a building" or "plan an invasion" but there is no reason why I couldn't learn these types of skills. Would you like to know how to do these things? Would knowing them make you an overall better at other stuff too? Yeah, cross-training is awesome.



He's a bit short sighted then...


I don't think you know who Heinlein was; short-sighted is the last thing most readers would describe him as.

[Fluffy Cat]

Heinlein... are you talking Space Cadet, The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, Job, Starship Troopers ?. Don't think anyone is within spitting distance of that man yet. Or for a long time to come.....Spelling and education are two separate functions. I don't think many of out institutions offer education but they can do spelling.

[Slyer]

I'm not saying I know how to "set a broken bone", "design a building" or "plan an invasion" but there is no reason why I couldn't learn these types of skills. Would you like to know how to do these things? Would knowing them make you an overall better at other stuff too? Yeah, cross-training is awesome.
Of course I would. I've taught myself loads of different skills that I don't need to know for my profession.
I can see where he is coming from but he ruins it by saying that "Specialization is for insects." Specialisation is for people too...

[jrandom]

It is scarcely surprising that, in the few schools that continue to teach it, Latin struggles to justify its existence against strong opposition from other departments. Tempora mutantur, indeed. Time was when "education" meant the classics and very little else.
But I don't fully accept the "nos mutamur in illis" unless by "we" you mean society in general. Not all change is progress, and I'm quite happy to be labelled a dinosaur for refusing to go along with the trend.

Not learning Latin is about the only genuine regret I have as a result of never going to high school.

(You will recall that I dropped out of the education system in Form 2.)

Anyway, New Year's Eve will soon transit, so remember, folks, there's no gloria in drinking until you're mundi sic.

[Edbear]

Quite so. The ideal is to be a jack of all trades, and a master of one (or a few)

Yeah, it's that mastering bit I'm having trouble with... :blink:


In regards to the'" improvement'comment I made I was thinking along the lines of people who are bad spellers......my son may be dyslexic but it's too soon to tell for sure.His biological father is dyslexic.
I found it helps to say ""this is left"" and point left.Then he knew exactly what way we needed to go (when following map directions).Hell I had learning difficulties as a child and I don't think the way most of you would.My understanding of a situation or comments can be miles out of the ball park in comparison to others.I don't often reach the same conclusion because I have read the information differently.This is a challenge to explain!! :dodge:

Had to chuckle! My wife is not dyslexic and reads very well, although her writing is funny. I laughed so hard it hurt when we went away to Waiheke for our anniversary recently. She was standing at the foot f the bed with a puzzled and confused look on her face, gesturing and turning around and around.

I said, "What on Earth are you doing?" She was confused about which side of the bed she should sleep on as the bed was against the opposite wall to our place, and therefore the "wrong way around"! :laugh: :no:

[Okey Dokey]

Many women need to turn a map so that the road they are looking at is in alignment with the road they are on. For some evolutionary/biological reason, gals are much worse at rotating 3 dimensional objects in their heads than men. Orientating oneself to a bed is a new twist!

[Ixion]

The fact that you can quote Terence in the original marks you as one of those hopelessly over-educated relics of the past. The decline (and inevitable demise) of Latin as a school subject in this country reflects the changed perception of education. Latin is not an easy subject to master, requiring concentrated effort over a long period of time. Its benefits are not immediately apparent, and cannot be linked directly to any vocation (other than teaching Latin!) It is scarcely surprising that, in the few schools that continue to teach it, Latin struggles to justify its existence against strong opposition from other departments. Tempora mutantur, indeed. Time was when "education" meant the classics and very little else.
But I don't fully accept the "nos mutamur in illis" unless by "we" you mean society in general. Not all change is progress, and I'm quite happy to be labelled a dinosaur for refusing to go along with the trend.

Well, mutamur is not the imperative (passive present first person plural ?- maybe - too long ago. Passive, anyway). So it does not mean that you MUST change. Rather that, nolens volens, you will be changed by the changing times. Some may resist more than others. Be not the first by whom the new are tried, nor yet the last to lay the old aside. (Interestingly Pope would be failed by a modern English teacher for the 'are tried' )

[Edbear]

The fact that you can quote Terence in the original marks you as one of those hopelessly over-educated relics of the past. The decline (and inevitable demise) of Latin as a school subject in this country reflects the changed perception of education. Latin is not an easy subject to master, requiring concentrated effort over a long period of time. Its benefits are not immediately apparent, and cannot be linked directly to any vocation (other than teaching Latin!) It is scarcely surprising that, in the few schools that continue to teach it, Latin struggles to justify its existence against strong opposition from other departments. Tempora mutantur, indeed. Time was when "education" meant the classics and very little else.
But I don't fully accept the "nos mutamur in illis" unless by "we" you mean society in general. Not all change is progress, and I'm quite happy to be labelled a dinosaur for refusing to go along with the trend.

I agree, not all change is progress, although in a way it is per se unless you mean progress to be for the advantage.

It is interesting to plot the history of the English language and to realise just how far back one can go before finding oneself unable to read it. (Sorry Hitcher...:shutup:)

Change is inevitable due to sheer weight of numbers and while not always to the advantage will always be adapted to.

I am old school in finding modern attempts at language to grate on the nerves at times and am particularly disappointed when those who should get it right fail miserably, eg: newsreaders, teachers, government officials, etc.. Expressions such as "different to" when it should be "different from" show a lack of both logic and comprehension. Something is 'similar to' another or 'different from' the other and to say, "different to" is as illogical as saying, "similar from".

Strangely, I have little to criticise about text-speak in the context of texting or even informal emailing between friends or family, but believe it has no place in formal writing, especially in the business arena.

[Ixion]

Old English - around the 11th centruy is as far as I can go - and that only with difficulty.

Syððan wæs geworden þæt he ferde þurh þa ceastre and þæt castel: godes rice prediciende and bodiende. and hi twelfe mid. And sume wif þe wæron gehælede of awyrgdum gastum: and untrumnessum: seo magdalenisce maria ofþære seofan deoflu uteodon: and iohanna chuzan wif herodes gerefan: and susanna and manega oðre þe him of hyra spedum þenedon.

By about 1400 it is fairly modern (same passage from Luke)

And it is don, aftirward Jesus made iourne bi cites & castelis prechende & euangelisende þe rewme of god, & twelue wiþ hym & summe wymmen þat weren helid of wicke spiritis & sicnesses, marie þat is clepid maudeleyn, of whom seuene deuelis wenten out & Jone þe wif off chusi procuratour of eroude, & susanne & manye oþere þat mynystreden to hym of her facultes

Unless it was in Norman French of course, but that is not really english.

[scumdog]

Expressions such as "different to" when it should be "different from" show a lack of both logic and comprehension. Something is 'similar to' another or 'different from' the other and to say, "different to" is as illogical as saying, "similar from".

Even worse "Same difference"

How the hell can you match differences?????:blink:

[Ixion]

Easy enough. The difference between 10 and 20 is the same as the difference between 20 and 30. Same difference, 10 in each case.

[scumdog]

Easy enough. The difference between 10 and 20 is the same as the difference between 20 and 30. Same difference, 10 in each case.

Ah, but you know Mr Ixion that I'm not talking about maths, I'm talking about people looking at similar bikes (or objects) and saying "wow, same difference eh, can hardly tell them apart"


Or when asking somebody which of two (or more) objects a person wants their reply is: "It doesn't matter, same difference".

[Ixion]

The difference between those two bikes is that one is a twin and the other a single.

And the difference between those two bikes is that one is a triple and the other a four.

Same difference, different number of cylinders.

[Slyer]

"Same Difference" in the sense that Scumdog is talking about is an oxymoron, an attempt at humour thus intentionally bad England.

[MSTRS]

Same difference, eh?
Reminds me of the delightful little ditty...

One fine day in the middle of the night
Two dead men got up to fight
Back to back they faced each other
Drew their swords and shot each other.

[Grahameeboy]

Yeah, it's that mastering bit I'm having trouble with... :blink:



Had to chuckle! My wife is not dyslexic and reads very well, although her writing is funny. I laughed so hard it hurt when we went away to Waiheke for our anniversary recently. She was standing at the foot f the bed with a puzzled and confused look on her face, gesturing and turning around and around.

I said, "What on Earth are you doing?" She was confused about which side of the bed she should sleep on as the bed was against the opposite wall to our place, and therefore the "wrong way around"! :laugh: :no:

At the foot of the bed...are you sure that is what she was confused about?

[Grahameeboy]

Even worse "Same difference"

How the hell can you match differences?????:blink:

I think he meant to post on "Religious Ravings!!

What we forget is that the English language has changed significantly over the ages...it is still changing and many of these grammatical issues will be long gone

[pritch]

"Same Difference" in the sense that Scumdog is talking about is an oxymoron, an attempt at humour thus intentionally bad England.

Exactly. Similar to saying, "Dejavu all over again" which others and myself have used. The redundancy being entirely intentional.

[Edbear]

At the foot of the bed...are you sure that is what she was confused about?

Pretty sure... :shifty:


Exactly. Similar to saying, "Dejavu all over again" which others and myself have used. The redundancy being entirely intentional.

Gotta watch them intentional redundancies, they tend to dejavu... :confused:

[MikeL]

What we forget is that the English language has changed significantly over the ages...it is still changing and many of these grammatical issues will be long gone

True, and indeed much of what is considered correct grammar today originated as mistakes due to carelessness or ignorance.
Doesn't mean that we should give up and accept anything, though.
Case in point: A hundred years from now the turn of phrase "I would of done it" will most likely be completely accepted, despite the fact that to many people today it is an abomination. (Proof: the almost equally illogical "If I had have done it" raises few eyebrows today, although 40 years ago it was only ever used by the uneducated.) Nevertheless I will resist this and similar innovations not because they are illogical but because subjectively they just don't feel right. Objectively it is hard to argue against them, given the nature of linguistic evolution; subjectively they will always be an abomination. Then again, perhaps if enough people started caring about clarity and logic and elegance in language usage, they might remain abominations in the future.

[bikemike]

A hundred years from now the turn of phrase "I would of done it" will most likely be completely accepted, despite the fact that to many people today it is an abomination. (Proof: the almost equally illogical "If I had have done it" raises few eyebrows today, although 40 years ago it was only ever used by the uneducated.)

Hard to swallow - surely I will do it, I am doing it, I have done it - and therefore, I could have done it, should have done it, would have done it. There's no room for would of done it. Unless you can say I of done it, then it must be would have done it.

RSVP Please ;-)

[MikeL]

Hard to swallow - surely I will do it, I am doing it, I have done it - and therefore, I could have done it, should have done it, would have done it. There's no room for would of done it. Unless you can say I of done it, then it must be would have done it.


This is logically right. Unfortunately linguistic change frequently ignores logic, because it involves such things as analogy and phonetic confusion.
The origin of "would of" is easily explained. Because "have" in compound tenses is most frequently found (in conversation) in contracted form (e.g. "would've"), in which the "'ve" is phonetically identical to the "of" in phrases like "price of meat", at a sub-conscious level the brain starts to confuse these two quite separate words. Subsequently even in the uncontracted form, "of" replaces "have", so that we hear phrases like "I would of, but I didn't have time", in which "of" is given its full pronunciation. From the logical point of view of course it is a barbarism, but as I said before, much of modern English grammatical usage started out as barbarisms.

[smoky]

Aoccdrnig to rseearch it deosnt mttaer in what oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoatnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be in the rghit pclae
the rset can be a toatl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit a porbelm. This is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef but the wrod as a wlohe

[Winston001]

Aoccdrnig to rseearch it deosnt mttaer in what oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoatnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be in the rghit pclae
the rset can be a toatl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit a porbelm. This is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef but the wrod as a wlohe

Yes and your version scans and is readable. However that is because the correct letters are there, each word is the right length, and as you say, the beginning and end are correct.

The type of posts which irritate people do not have these attributes. Words are mis-spelt or leet. Additionally everything is run together - no paragraphs. When confronted with a big block of text which doesn't have sufficent recognisable words, most readers move on.

[Hinny]

Indeed -


I agree mightily on that point, and include the there/their/they're confusion Totally different words in meaning but so often it appears the user is totally oblivious to their blunder :no:

Did you mean there're, rather than they're? There are as opposed to they are.
You may well have been oblivious to your blunder. :dodge:

[Hinny]

The uncharitable might suggest that you have just answered your own question. :bleh:

Uncharitable or perspicacious? :jerry:

[Beemer]

I think you need to differentiate between the illiterate and the lazy. There are a few people who really struggle, but a lot more who simply choose the lazy way to write. No capitals or punctuation, no sentence or paragraph construction, txt spk nd l33t.

The irritation expressed on this site reflects society's aversion to such self-indulgent laziness, which was even encouraged (albeit briefly) by our "education system".

I agree. If someone isn't that hot on spelling I won't jump in and criticise everything they post, but I get extremely pissed off with no capitals, no full stops, and no attempt to try and make things clear to those poor sods who have to try and decipher it!

I don't care if you didn't get any qualifications at school and can't spell - but if you want people to understand what you are saying, then at least put some effort into your written communications.

[Hinny]

The BDOTGNZA isn't as vigilant as it once was. But if some people find sloppiness in written English acceptable, good on them.

If I ever did know what BDOTGNZA stood for, I have forgotten.
Would you please enlighten me.

[hayd3n]

If I ever did know what BDOTGNZA stood for, I have forgotten.
Would you please enlighten me.

big dick on the ganga not zoe appliciable

[hayd3n]

I agree. If someone isn't that hot on spelling I won't jump in and criticise everything they post, but I get extremely pissed off with no capitals, no full stops, and no attempt to try and make things clear to those poor sods who have to try and decipher it!

I don't care if you didn't get any qualifications at school and can't spell - but if you want people to understand what you are saying, then at least put some effort into your written communications.
This site is about Motorcycles and riding Motorbikes , Its not about the spelling, Its about the ride.

[Slyer]

This site is about Motorcycles and riding Motorbikes , Its not about the spelling, Its about the ride.
Bahahahaha!
I almost believed you for a second.

[Mikkel]

My point was that having a degree doesn't make someone bright. More that the more stupid amongst us that do have degrees feel that the degree makes them more clever than they are - to which your (reposted) link alludes.

Some degrees are difficult and do require higher than average intelligence and/or effort to complete inside the alloted time. We're not talking about your average BAs though...

One thing that irks me though; the lame debate about "university of life" versus the university degree. Somehow, someone has - through some inferiority complex or other - convinced themselves that people who get a university degree doesn't live their lives in the meantime. Speaking from personal experience, that about as far from the truth as you can get.
Also, In my experience there is an equal distribution of idiots, good bastards, social misfits, arrogant wankers, hard workers, gentlemen/ladies, immoral cretins, honest blokes, etc. in pretty much all walks of life. Trying to generalise about the character of people in this regard is a best ignorance.


Nope. Quite the opposite.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

The less ignorant someone is, generally the less capable one feels. The biggest crime of the last 50 years was the "Me" generation telling their kids they could do and be anything and that being "happy" is the chief goal of life.

I don't have a degree and I don't care whether or not someone else has one either. People who make it an issue need to ask themselves about their own insecurities, but having a degree or at least some form of formalised "study" will open doors. Why it shuts doors in NZ is a mystery to me, but certainly accounts for why NZ struggles to retain decent graduates and business people.

There are plenty other things that helps to motivate capable people into leaving NZ. The most obvious one would be relatively lower salaries. But there are other less materialistic concerns too e.g. lack of decent childcare facilities means that female professionals will have a hard time raising young kids without putting their career on standby. It is exceedingly difficult to get a permanent job within research and being in your mid-thirties on soft-money (1 year contracts, continuation dependent upon further grants...) is a pretty shitty place to be if you would like to buy your own place.

That said. NZ is a wonderful place and compared to other parts of the world it hasn't entirely lost its humanity yet. All things considered we would much prefer to stay here and start a family - provided we can find a solution that makes sense.


Makes us sound like a bunch of hicks screaming "evil" at science...

It's a funny old thing. Yes, I've met a few high-brow intellectuals who sneer at the mundane manual labours handled by the less-educated. However, these have been the exception and very rarely the most competent within their peer group. Most of them come from wealthy families where everybody in living memory have been too well-off for their own good - but ironically some of the most vocal of them come from very poor and/or dysfunctional families.
I bet the other side of the coin is pretty much just the same.

Anyway, that mentality goes hand in hand with a deeply seated reluctance to engage in long-term planning. The most frustrating thing about NZ is the prevalent shortsightedness that is dominating everything from public services and politics to private business ventures. I have no doubt that this plays a significant role in NZ's less than impressive economic growth compared to other OECD countries.


Ah, you mean like a jack of all trades... :2thumbsup


Quite so. The ideal is to be a jack of all trades, and a master of one (or a few)

The expression is "jack of all trades, master of none". I like Ixions idea, but as all trades are getting more and more complex it becomes less and less realistic to fulfill that ideal.

[Spearfish]

Yeah Nah, can't forget this gem

http://www.nailmaster.ru/fuck.html

Dont wait for the "loading" thing to stop.

[Edbear]

Some degrees are difficult and do require higher than average intelligence and/or effort to complete inside the alloted time. We're not talking about your average BAs though...

One thing that irks me though; the lame debate about "university of life" versus the university degree. Somehow, someone has - through some inferiority complex or other - convinced themselves that people who get a university degree doesn't live their lives in the meantime. Speaking from personal experience, that about as far from the truth as you can get.
Also, In my experience there is an equal distribution of idiots, good bastards, social misfits, arrogant wankers, hard workers, gentlemen/ladies, immoral cretins, honest blokes, etc. in pretty much all walks of life. Trying to generalise about the character of people in this regard is a best ignorance.



There are plenty other things that helps to motivate capable people into leaving NZ. The most obvious one would be relatively lower salaries. But there are other less materialistic concerns too e.g. lack of decent childcare facilities means that female professionals will have a hard time raising young kids without putting their career on standby. It is exceedingly difficult to get a permanent job within research and being in your mid-thirties on soft-money (1 year contracts, continuation dependent upon further grants...) is a pretty shitty place to be if you would like to buy your own place.

That said. NZ is a wonderful place and compared to other parts of the world it hasn't entirely lost its humanity yet. All things considered we would much prefer to stay here and start a family - provided we can find a solution that makes sense.



It's a funny old thing. Yes, I've met a few high-brow intellectuals who sneer at the mundane manual labours handled by the less-educated. However, these have been the exception and very rarely the most competent within their peer group. Most of them come from wealthy families where everybody in living memory have been too well-off for their own good - but ironically some of the most vocal of them come from very poor and/or dysfunctional families.
I bet the other side of the coin is pretty much just the same.

Anyway, that mentality goes hand in hand with a deeply seated reluctance to engage in long-term planning. The most frustrating thing about NZ is the prevalent shortsightedness that is dominating everything from public services and politics to private business ventures. I have no doubt that this plays a significant role in NZ's less than impressive economic growth compared to other OECD countries.





The expression is "jack of all trades, master of none". I like Ixions idea, but as all trades are getting more and more complex it becomes less and less realistic to fulfill that ideal.

We may have our differences, but there's nothing in this post I can't agree with. Too many don't understand that life is to a large extent, barring unfortunate circumstances we have no control over, what you make of it for yourself.

If you want a particular future, you find out what is required to achieve it and then work accordingly towards it. The key to success in any area of life, work, social, marriage, family, whatever, is self discipline. It takes personal effort and sacrifice and persistence and no, it's not easy but it is the only way. Too many seem to think someone will come along and give them what they want, or it will fall out of the sky, or that by working flat out for five minutes they'll achieve it.

It's a bit like those who complain they've tried dieting and exercise but it "doesn't work". It does work of course.

[scissorhands]

Yep, life is a feeling and dreaming ourselves in a particular way can create a major reinvention of self in a short space of time. Though is almost never happens. Why why why? You see some cougars who have lost a stack of weight and spent money on the face etc etc but fewer demographics seem to want to improve themselves.

If I had almost nothing right now, I could be a driver, a cabbie, mining in OZ or $30 hour labourer. Without dependants, I could have saved $40k plus and had a month in Bali within 1 year. With 10 hours overtime a week I could have paid off 2/3 of a new cheap car.

Rather than opportunity, it seems what holds many people back is themselves, will power and spending and pampering oneself. Is it smoko yet?

[Beemer]

This site is about Motorcycles and riding Motorbikes , Its not about the spelling, Its about the ride.

For a start, capital letters for Motorcycles and Motorbikes are unnecessary. Secondly, pick one and stick with it - either use motorycles OR motorbikes, not both in the one sentence. Thirdly, it should be it's with an apostrophe as it's short for it is.

Granted this site is about motorcyles and motorcycling, but it doesn't mean we're all illiterate morons.

As I said to a smart arse little kid at Manfeild recently, do not start with me, you will not win!

[Edbear]

For a start, capital letters for Motorcycles and Motorbikes are unnecessary. Secondly, pick one and stick with it - either use motorycles OR motorbikes, not both in the one sentence. Thirdly, it should be it's with an apostrophe as it's short for it is.

Granted this site is about motorcyles and motorcycling, but it doesn't mean we're all illiterate morons.

As I said to a smart arse little kid at Manfeild recently, do not start with me, you will not win!

It's about its what...? :innocent:

[Hinny]

The biggest crime of the last 50 years was the "Me" generation telling their kids they could do and be anything and that being "happy" is the chief goal of life.

In reply to the teachers question,
"What do you want to be when you grow up?"
Little Johnny replied "Happy".

The teacher said "No, I don't think you understood the question."

Little Johnny rejoined " I don't think you understand life."

Sorry James, I'm with Johnny on this one.

[Slyer]

Agreed. The only reason I work is because being hungry and living outside sucks.

[peasea]

Agreed. The only reason I work is because being hungry and living outside sucks.

Couldn't agree more. If I didn't have to work I wouldn't. That doesn't mean I'd sit on my arse all day, I get bored even on holiday if I'm not doing something. I'd find plenty to do, probably have the cleanest vehicles in the village, spotless house, way-cool garage etc. I can recall a boss (many years ago) coming up to me and asking; "what does this job mean to you?" I replied with; "a means to pay my bills and have a good time with what's left over." I don't think he was overly impressed but when I was a youngster I was taught that honesty is the best policy.

[peasea]

Granted this site is about motorcyles and motorcycling, but it doesn't mean we're all illiterate morons.

No, not ALL, just a shitload.

[Dave Lobster]

whoops.. PEBCAK

[Winston001]

In reply to the teachers question,
"What do you want to be when you grow up?"
Little Johnny replied "Happy".

The teacher said "No, I don't think you understood the question."

Little Johnny rejoined " I don't think you understand life."

Sorry James, I'm with Johnny on this one.


The point you are making accurately reflects what most people would say. However I suggest the answer "happy" is ephemeral and largely an illusion. Each of us understands what it feels like to be happy, no argument. But how we get there is a completely different and much more complex question. No two people share the exact same definition of happiness. It is an emotion and entirely personal.

I prefer to think of the objective of a human life is to feel fulfilled. Satisfied. From that springs happiness which rises and falls as events occur through our lives. You couldn't be happy all of the time - you need some sadness, some pain, to be able to appreciate happiness.

[Hinny]

There's enough worthless shit you learn in life too.

... the bore and stroke of a 460 Ford V8 - the letter Q on vin of a '66 Thunderbird means ...

<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><meta name="ProgId" content="Word.Document"><meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 9"><meta name="Originator" content="Microsoft Word 9"><link rel="File-List" href="file:///D:/DOCUME%7E1/Keith/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_filelist.xml"><!--><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:DoNotOptimizeForBrowser/> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><style> <!-- /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin:0cm; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";} @page Section1 {size:612.0pt 792.0pt; margin:72.0pt 90.0pt 72.0pt 90.0pt; mso-header-margin:36.0pt; mso-footer-margin:36.0pt; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style> [I]Stroke:3.85 inches,<o:p></o:p>
<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]--><o:p></o:p>
Bore: 4.36 inches,<o:p></o:p>
<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]--><o:p></o:p>
Q is the Ford interior colour code

[PrincessBandit]

whoops.. PEBCAK

Umm, I'm probably going to regret this, but.....what does that acronym stand for?

[MSTRS]

Problem Exists between Chair and Keyboard

[scumdog]

<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><meta name="ProgId" content="Word.Document"><meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 9"><meta name="Originator" content="Microsoft Word 9"><link rel="File-List" href="file:///D:/DOCUME%7E1/Keith/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_filelist.xml"><!--><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:DoNotOptimizeForBrowser/> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><style> <!-- /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin:0cm; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";} @page Section1 {size:612.0pt 792.0pt; margin:72.0pt 90.0pt 72.0pt 90.0pt; mso-header-margin:36.0pt; mso-footer-margin:36.0pt; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style> [I]Stroke:3.85 inches,<o:p></o:p>
<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]--><o:p></o:p>
Bore: 4.36 inches,<o:p></o:p>
<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]--><o:p></o:p>
Q is the Ford interior colour code


Correct with the bore and stroke bit.

Wrong with the 'Q' that I was meaning - it's the 428 motor option, the 390 was a 'Z'

Of course you may be right on the colour code but I haven't looked yet!

[Hinny]

Wrong with the 'Q' !

Wrong?
Me?
That doesn't sound right!

[Hinny]

The point you are making accurately reflects what most people would say.

So you are telling me I am part of the status Quo, the average dude, a regular joe, a member of the proletariat.

Good God! what has become of me?

That's worse than getting a red rep.

(And here was me thinking of you as a kindred spirit.)
(can you change font size?)
Maybe we do still have something in common.

[MikeL]

In reply to the teachers question,
"What do you want to be when you grow up?"
Little Johnny replied "Happy".

The teacher said "No, I don't think you understood the question."

Little Johnny rejoined " I don't think you understand life."

Sorry James, I'm with Johnny on this one.

Happiness is much overrated and frequently misunderstood. I blame the Americans. In the Declaration of Independence Jefferson et al used the phrase "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" in the context of basic human rights. A truly revolutionary idea 200 years ago, but taken for granted today. Unfortunately the right to the "pursuit of happiness" has become confused with some putative "right to happiness", which is an entirely different matter, and is the cause of many current social ills. The culture of dependence, the demand for an instant fix and similar attitudes can be traced to the fuzzy idea that it is everyone's right to be happy (i.e. gratified) no matter what his or her circumstances, or the accidents of fate. Since rights are something external to ourselves, sanctioned by some authority (the state, God), the responsibility for gratification, and therefore what we consider to be happiness, is shifted away from ourselves and onto external factors.
Little Johnny is quite right to think that being happy is more important than fame or wealth or other personal ambitions, but unless he understands that the world owes him only the right to pursue happiness, and cannot provide happiness like some sort of social benefit, he will end up, like too many today, frustrated and bewildered and bitter when it doesn't get delivered.

[gijoe1313]

Ying tong ying tong, iddy i po! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nebe1zuEtbc

[terbang]

Thick as a brick?

*wipes tears from eyes*

Actually, I've often wondered what it'd be like to be stupid. Would one be aware of it? Is it like being fat, or crippled?

Or is there just a sort of dim, pervasive bliss?

[Edbear]

Thick as a brick?

Where you been? How's the sky, lately? You back from the East yet?

[scumdog]

Wrong?
Me?
That doesn't sound right!

Google 'Q code Thunderbird' and see the results:yes::D

[Hinny]

Google 'Q code Thunderbird' and see the results:yes::D

I aiready had.
For your edification:
1966 Thunderbird.
Code Q is Brittany Blue Metallic body colour with pattern 62 Dark Blue leather trim -with headrests.

[scumdog]

I aiready had.
For your edification:
1966 Thunderbird.
Code Q is Brittany Blue Metallic body colour with pattern 62 Dark Blue leather trim -with headrests.

#
1966 ford thunderbird landau Q code - Acadiana Region Classic cars ...
20 Oct 2009 ... 66 ford thunderbird 428 big block. this car has all possible options. pictures speak for them self.
acadiana.kijiji.com/.../1966-ford-thunderbird-landau-q-code/?... - United States - Cached
#
1966 Ford Thunderbird Specifications
ENGINE CODE/DESCRIPTION Q Thunderbird 428 V-8. Bore & stroke: 4.13" x 3.98" Comp. ratio: 10.5:1. Horsepower: 345 at 4600 RPM Maximum Torque 462 at 2800 RPM ...
automotivemileposts.com/tbird1966specifications.html - United States - Cached - Similar
#
Thunderbird 428 Q-Code Coupe Parting 2nd 428cpe For Sale
1966 Ford Thunderbird Q-Code Factory original 428 cu.in. engine. Low mileage, complete original car for restoration or tinker with it and use as a driver. ...:bleh::devil2:

[Hinny]

Agreed Q is an engine code but if you look at the second line of the data plate you will see the third letter is for the trim.
See here:http://www.tbird.org/DataPlate/vdata.htm