Next BIG Protest with StoneY and the Unions

[StoneY]

Well......

My Legacy (known as Sassy to those who enjoyd the ride in her) has been smashed by a litte boy racer wanker who was practising Drifting in the street outside

Little punk has failed his breath test, and well, if the skid mark wasnt at least 3 sections long (about 30 meters FFS) in a 50 k area it would almost have been a comedy....the whole neighborhood has been held to ransom by these little pricks and thier big bore xhaust rear wheel drive rice burning turbo charged drift king machines and now we have had our first fatallity...my Subaru!!!

Vin Diesel movies have a lot to answer for around here I can tell you

I will DEFINITELY buy another Subaru tho look at the damage to the Nissan (he slid INTO the rear corner of the Subby with his drivers door)

Problem is Ratti was going to use this car to get Max from the airport....bugger
:(

And the little prick is getting looked after by ACC...bet they class it a bike accident! (I have a class 6 license and my car got hit! LOL)

[ajturbo]

i think karma is tell ya something there stoney... get a mini :Pokey:
:devil2:

[caseye]

i think karma is tell ya something there stoney... get a mini :Pokey:
:devil2:

staya away from Drifting cars is what Karma is telling you! Let the poor bloody Police deal withthem though mate. Last private citizen who tried taslking with boy rscers got a screw driver in his throat.

[girlzchris]

I m in for tomorrow... see you guys around....:woohoo:

[RiderInBlack]

All the best for tomorrow Dudes And Dudettes. Will be working a PM shift tomorrow so will miss the News. Hope ya give them a good learning.

[riffer]

Oldrider - you summed up pretty much just how I feel. StoneY - sorry I couldn't be at the station this morning - major ketoacidosis today after my treefelling work yesterday has left me completely f*&ked (damn Type I diabetes) - I won't be at the meeting tonite - can you please ring and update me afterwards - I'll text you my home number is can you forgot it...

Roll on tomorrow. Thanks for the support guys - If you can't be there - ring your politician - write letters - let's take ACC back to where it should be...

[Ratti]

Ratti has it sorted..FM, guitar and pies will be at the appropriate place at the appropriate time, and I will get him back to airport to catch his pm flight as well

[caseye]

Ratti has it sorted..FM, guitar and pies will be at the appropriate place at the appropriate time, and I will get him back to airport to catch his pm flight as well

Ratti I thank you from the heart of my bottom, ol Fatt Max is precious to us Dorklanders but hes going to do some Majic down here tomorrow.Are you both going to be at Breeky at 9.30am?

[Fatt Max]

Ratti I thank you from the heart of my bottom, ol Fatt Max is precious to us Dorklanders but hes going to do some Majic down here tomorrow.Are you both going to be at Breeky at 9.30am?

She's a legend that one gawd bless 'er little cottons...

Cas, mate you are too kind....

Right then luvvies, lets fecking have it.......

[Pedrostt500]

i think karma is tell ya something there stoney... get a mini :Pokey:
:devil2:

Nah its saying get A Valiant.

[riffer]

Looking forward to tomorrow. I have my speech written, and practiced. Sorry StoneY it's going to be 5 minutes long. I can't do it justice in less than that. Start playing the music at 3 minutes to get me off the stage and I'm going postal...

[Bald Eagle]

See you all there ... looking forward to a great crowd.

[Toaster]

See you all there ... looking forward to a great crowd.

Ditto. Looking forward to it.

[gazmascelle]

fken oath. see yas out there

[chanceyy]

see you guys later this morn :)

will be wearing my bitches T :)

[sinfull]

Will be along for this one !
Have noticed that there aint the same publicity as the last though, 90% of the guys i've been reminding had no idea it was on !

[yungatart]

I can't be there, much as I would love to, but I have given the lovely Mstrs the day off to 'wave the flag' for both of us.
I will be thinking of you all as you try once again to get our message across!

NOW GO MAKE NOISE!!!!!!!

[XP@]

It seems we are in favour this morning. The day is looking to be a fine one!

See you soon!!!

[StoneY]

Its go time

See you all there

Thanks to all who have dilligently supported this, and even those who have argued against it helped clarify some issues in regards to where personal politics and standing up for whats RIGHT cross each other

Nick Smith replied at last yesterday and has refused to speak, see a delegation or even attend this rally

We have him on the political ropes i reckon (but im a glass half full guy lol)

[GOONR]

Will be along for this one !
Have noticed that there aint the same publicity as the last though, 90% of the guys i've been reminding had no idea it was on !

I've noticed the same, not a peep on the morning news.

[riffer]

I can't be there, much as I would love to, but I have given the lovely Mstrs the day off to 'wave the flag' for both of us.
I will be thinking of you all as you try once again to get our message across!

NOW GO MAKE NOISE!!!!!!!

Good on you for letting John go. If I don't see him today could you please pass on a huge thanks from me to him. I owe him so much for his help with my speech - the stuff he's contributed has gone massively towards it - he's nearly written most of it for me so I hope he likes it.

[Nasty]

So I should let him continue to sleep in ....

He will be on the way well in time :)

[sinfull]

I can't be there, much as I would love to, but I have given the lovely Mstrs the day off to 'wave the flag' for both of us.
I will be thinking of you all as you try once again to get our message across!

NOW GO MAKE NOISE!!!!!!! I presume he's left already, but if he has a mobile on him text him and tell him i'll be at the otaki mobil at 10 if he wants to roll in and slap me upside the head to let me know it's him so i can join his jaunt in to town !
Edit :

So I should let him continue to sleep in ....

He will be on the way well in time :)
Awww sounds like he's way past here lol

[yungatart]

Good on you for letting John go. If I don't see him today could you please pass on a huge thanks from me to him. I owe him so much for his help with my speech - the stuff he's contributed has gone massively towards it - he's nearly written most of it for me so I hope he likes it.

Hey, no worries, Simon.
What he wrote was for all of us, to use to help repeal this idiocy that National are hell bent on.
He will be happy to have been able to help.
Thanks should go to you for delivering our message for us! You rock!

[riffer]

Its go time

See you all there

Thanks to all who have dilligently supported this, and even those who have argued against it helped clarify some issues in regards to where personal politics and standing up for whats RIGHT cross each other

Nick Smith replied at last yesterday and has refused to speak, see a delegation or even attend this rally

We have him on the political ropes i reckon (but im a glass half full guy lol)

I'm not surprised. No-one likes being reminded that they are liars.

[StoneY]

Will be along for this one !
Have noticed that there aint the same publicity as the last though, 90% of the guys i've been reminding had no idea it was on !

We let the Unions do the publicity bro, epic fail as opposed to our version of 'spreading the word'
But I was accosted in Levin morning after ACDC by concert goers who had seen the ads at the Stadium and tried to 'recruit' me and Mykro LOL

See ya there Bill

[yungatart]

I presume he's left already, but if he has a mobile on him text him and tell him i'll be at the otaki mobil at 10 if he wants to roll in and slap me upside the head to let me know it's him so i can join his jaunt in to town !
Edit :

Awww sounds like he's way past here lol
He left yesterday, mate, and availed himself of Kari's legendary hospiutality.
He's getting too old to ride there and back in a day:whistle:

[girlzchris]

see you there... :woohoo:

[Bounce001]

Go hard guys. Wish I could be there. No leave left :crybaby:

[Her_C4]

Please don't shoot me, BUT...

I have not had time to go through all these posts and find the right detail, so can someone please clarify for me what time I need to be at parliament with camera in hand to capture the action as everyone arrives?

[riffer]

Kia Ora Katoa, Hello, my name is Simon Gotlieb, and I’m a motorcyclist.

I’d like to let you know how we got involved in all this and why we’re here today…

In October last year, the government announced that motorcyclists were to pay up to 400% increases in their ACC levies on registrations. Obviously this was unwelcome news, and we immediately began protesting, and investigating the reasoning behind such a huge increase. Very quickly it was found to be based on grossly distorted statistics and actual lies. Soon after, we found that ACC had many other user groups in their spotlight for big increases, reduced cover and other things to soften us up to lose our no-fault accident treatment system. We began warning the country with our “Who’s Next?” campaign.

ACC and the minister, Nick Smith, countered this with repeated falsehoods in an attempt to discredit and marginalise motorcyclists and their protest. ACC used YOURS and MY money to run an anti-motorcyclist propaganda ad in national papers – before the submission process closed. Those same newspapers all over the country labeled us as ‘angry bikers’ but refused to print the exposed misinformation. Hundreds of ‘Letters to the Ed’ exposing the lies from ACC and Nick Smith went unprinted. Although some leading journalists did investigate and write good articles, no major media coverage happened.

They thought we’d go away in time.

But still we won’t be quiet.

And now?

Slowly the public is becoming aware of just how much extra is going to be taken in all areas of ACC collections. For most earners, this will be in the nature of $400-500 EXTRA every year, just whipped out of your wages. Plus, your car registration will jump by about $30, and your annual petrol bill will increase by around $220. And all the while, at the entitlement end, there are going to be cuts. Now we agree with removing payouts to those injured in a criminal act. And we could all help them sort out the few people ripping off the system - who'd be doing it to private insurers too. But that’s about it.

You may have heard that ACC is broke? It’s not. After all expenses last year, they posted a profit (surplus) of $1.2 BILLION. Coupled with a record $11 BILLION in reserves. In spite of the recession, this year their reserves have grown to some $14 BILLION.

The government claims that motorcyclist injuries cost $62M in 2008.

Actually, the figure is not even half that. $40M is for ongoing expenses for injuries sustained in previous years and covered by levies collected in previous years.

So – it actually cost $24M in 2008, and we paid $12.3M in levies collected from M/c regos. This left about $12M in costs not covered by those levies PLUS expected ongoing costs into the future from injuries sustained in 2008. Well, that figure is a little more difficult to be certain of, but $16M is not unlikely. Therefore the shortfall is in the nature of $30M.

Now no-one would deny that $30M is a lot of money.

But…

First remember motorcyclists didn't cause a lot of those accidents.

Second, the government were claiming that car owners were subsidising m/c by $77 each...

There are over 3M registered non-motorcycle vehicles. If we multiply 3M by $77 we get $239M. Yet the ‘subsidised shortfall’ is $30M? Simple arithmetic tells us that the actual subsidy is about $9.00. Further to this, there are over 400,000 m/c licence holders, but less than 100,000 m/c, which means that most bikers are actually car drivers and most pay levies on more than one vehicle. If 80% of motorcyclists also pay full ACC on their cars, that means motorcyclists are paying more than their fair share. Can you work that one out?
The government says that ACC can’t afford m/c payouts from the motor vehicle fund…
In 2008 $37M was claimed from this fund by cyclists and pedestrians, who were injured by vehicles on the road. Only 1 motorcycle was that other vehicle. Who paid the levies to cover these people’s injuries? Not them!

The government says ACC wants to hit ‘big’ bikes harder...

Where is the proof that this is necessary? MOT’s own statistical collating procedures include a section for engine size. 43% were not recorded, and of the 57% that were, 250cc was the standout capacity involved in accidents.

The government says that ACC want to be open, honest and transparent...

How can this be, when none of their claims can be substantiated, in fact most if not all can be proved wrong? They say their figures have been checked by ‘someone’ in Sydney and apparently they wanted to charge the motorcycle advocacy group BRONZ $10,000 for access to the statistics that they used. Yet every piece of information I’ve used was gathered from stats on their own website and is there for anyone to see.

And if they want to be so open and honest, why is there a clause in the latest ACC bill that allows them to opt out of any further consultation?

ACC isn’t trouble free. But it’s a long way from broke. All these increases and entitlement removals are for one reason only – to prepare ACC to be sold to private, offshore insurance companies. Privatising; in other words. Nobody will be better off. Except big business. And the lawyers, due to the inevitable court cases that we currently avoid under the system we’ve had since 1974. It wasn’t better before ACC and it isn’t going to be any better after it.

But don’t take our word for it. Do some investigating of your own.
Contact your local MPs. All of them. Ask the direct questions.

Ask them why we have to pay more for less.

[BMWST?]

rolling soon see you all there

[riffer]

Be there at 11.30 and you'll be fine Chrissie.

[Ixion]

If there's been anything at all about it in the press,(even today!) it's been bloody well hidden. Nobody up here has heard about it at all (aprt from KB people, obviously) .

I've had another me query the papers about it.

[Jizah]

Damn it, forgot all about this. Is anyone meeting anywhere or everyone just heading in on their own?

[bungbung]

If you're coming in on Murphy st, watch for the diesel spill on the exit ramp and down Murphy st towards the railway station.

[girlzchris]

are we all park our bike outside parliament??;)

[RiderInBlack]

If there's been anything at all about it in the press,(even today!) it's been bloody well hidden. Nobody up here has heard about it at all (aprt from KB people, obviously) .

I've had another me query the papers about it.Was a bit on Hauraki News @ 10am, but nothing on TV as yet.

[oldrider]

Was a bit on Hauraki News @ 10am, but nothing on TV as yet.

It's a bit scary, the silence down here is deafening! :shutup:....:sweatdrop.....:shifty:

[pipson]

Check out TZNZ web site http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/acc-protests-hit-parliament-again-3366223

[Ixion]

Garrggh. And a picture of LAST YEAR'S Domain protest !

[RiderInBlack]

Just watched Matty Mac Clean report on TV1 Noon News. Doesn't seem to be as many there as the first time, but then the marchers hadn't arrived yet. Which I could have been there now ta help boast the numbers. What is with the rest of the Country?

[Pixie]

Just watched Matty Mac Clean report on TV1 Noon News. Doesn't seem to be as many there as the first time, but then the marchers hadn't arrived yet. Which I could have been there now ta help boast the numbers. What is with the rest of the Country?

200 bikers and 50 others.Pity.

[Laxi]

that was just farking embarasing, the biker angle was deliberatly keep low so as not to encourage too many bikes and let this be about the "20,000" union members coming,they could only muster about 50. MBers still out numbered them 2-1, im freakn discusted by the slack ass atempt the unions put in

[Ixion]

TV news item (http://www.3news.co.nz/Angry-ACC-protestors-return/tabid/419/articleID/142033/Default.aspx)

Very low key

[riffer]

that was just farking embarasing, the biker angle was deliberatly keep low so as not to encourage too many bikes and let this be about the "20,000" union members coming,they could only muster about 50. MBers still out numbered them 2-1, im freakn discusted by the slack ass atempt the unions put in

Got to admit I too was disappointed with the turnout by the union's members. We were hoping for a lot more than that, but in the end it is what it is. Those that turned up did well. I daresay we'll need to do it alone next time.

[Tunahunter]

Went down to Parliament grounds today and witnessed a very well organised demo - well done to all involved. Very disappointing numbers watched a very entertaining set of speakers.

[yungatart]

I'm really sorry I wasn't able to be there to swell the numbers....apathy rules!

[riffer]

I'm really sorry I wasn't able to be there to swell the numbers....apathy rules!

I caught up with John - he's doing well. It was good to see him again.

[rscole]

Big thanks to StoneY and riffer.

An even bigger BOOOOO! to the unions. That was dissapointing. Several members of unions who were involved, never even knew about the march onto parliament. I am guessing the unions are too tied up in what they can and cant say to their members about joining a protest????

[chanceyy]

good to catch up with the familiar faces and saying Hi to some new ones

Thanks to Rabbi for picking me up and had a great ride on the Hog:)

the numbers of bikers was ok as it was never meant to be as large as last Nov, however the union numbers were low ..

however there will be this november again when the bikers can turn out in force .. we are not going away :nono:

[phred]

I was feeling guilty for being unable to attend today due to a follow up appointment at the eye clinic.
Now I am relieved that I didn't go given the poor showing by the non motorcycle interests.

Regardless ... My sincerest gratitude to Stoney and Co for all the plannig and organising to keep this issue alive.

I will be there at the next one.

[oldrider]

I am just going to wait and see the positives that come out of this, all will be revealed in good time!

Big well done to our biker reps and organisers.

How did your speech go riffer, I thought you put that together well, would have liked to have heard it.

Just one more phase of the war, Smith, Smythe, shit or shite might be feeling a bit cocky after that one but he'll keep!

Might have to change tack on strategy for next time, maybe! :mellow:

[gazmascelle]

good to see everyone, and to finally put some faces to names. cheers to everyone that helped organise todays protest.. count me in for november

this all makes me wonder though, why hasn't there been more attention to this in the news, or other tv programs that get their ratings by exposing bullshit like this? Most people I've spoken to seem to think Labour put ACC in the red, private insurers would get us a better deal, etc etc

[Ixion]

Okay. Put a spin on it.

The bikers are pissed off with mr Smith - 10000 odd turn up and demand his blood.

The unions are pissed off with Mr Smith - 50 odd turn up and whimper.

What does that say is the most potent political force - and thus least safe to piss off ?

[Stormer]

...........

[riffer]

That's Fat Maxx! And damn, that's one sexy RF900 in the first pic. Makes that gixxer look positively anorexic!

[sinfull]

Enough poo pooing the unions for a poor showing when we could only muster a pitifull amount of riders also !!!
Good on those that made the effort and showed up and good on the opposition for making a public statment that it will be reversed if they get in (vote conjuring i will admit) but it was in public !

Sooooo back to the bridge ????

[girlzchris]

I like the guy with the guitar... he sing instead of talk... awesome...

;)

[Stormer]

How do you post an attachment?
I couldn`t find any way to, and my pictures came out too big.
So big in fact, I`ve been issued with some "infraction" for doing so.
If not I`ll scrub the f`in things.

[MSTRS]

How do you post an attachment?
I couldn`t find any way to, and my pictures came out too big.
So big in fact, I`ve been issued with some "infraction" for doing so.
If not I`ll scrub the f`in things.

You've done it right...EXCEPT the size is too big. You need to run your originals through a shrink program (like Mihov, for instance) to reduce each pic to something like 500x300 pixels. Then replace your original postings with the resized images.

[MSTRS]

He's getting too old to ride there and back in a day:whistle:

Hey!! I did 250kms on Sunday too, you know....

[Scuba_Steve]

Im disappointed with the union turn out, tho to be honest its kinda what I expected (sorry Im not a huge union fan because of well things like this really their lack of commitment.).

But more important matters, does anyone know where I can find a clip of Fat Maxx singing the ACC song???

[MSTRS]

... why hasn't there been more attention to this in the news, or other tv programs that get their ratings by exposing bullshit like this?...

More ratings are available by telling the country about the really important stuff...like who Alison Mau is sleeping with...

[P38]

But more important matters, does anyone know where I can find a clip of Fat Maxx singing the ACC song???

Mate i got footage of Both of Max's songs...... I'm trying to upload them to you tube as I type..... it's going kinda slow.

I will post a link here once I have it sussed.

[Fatt Max]

Mate i got footage of Both of Max's songs...... I'm trying to upload them to you tube as I type..... it's going kinda slow.

I will post a link here once I have it sussed.

Oh shit lol.......

[Mom]

I am just going to wait and see the positives that come out of this, all will be revealed in good time!

Might have to change tack on strategy for next time, maybe! :mellow:

Perhaps. We are polarised but...

Watered down stuff. The unions dont have the same clout as they used to. Guess this means the bikers have to rise again and lead the way.


Okay. Put a spin on it.

The bikers are pissed off with mr Smith - 10000 odd turn up and demand his blood.

The unions are pissed off with Mr Smith - 50 odd turn up and whimper.

What does that say is the most potent political force - and thus least safe to piss off ?

The one that is prepared to get off its arse and do what they say they are going to?

[Ratti]

was the protest today worth the effort?

see thread with this title too for more opinions...

[pete376403]

A few pics from today.
Yeah, a shame about the union numbers - they were almost outnumbered by the cops and security.

[sunhuntin]

Enough poo pooing the unions for a poor showing when we could only muster a pitifull amount of riders also !!!

difference being that riders werent encouraged to attend today, we were only to show up, not be the whole event. if i recall, the preferred number of bikes was 500 for today. i havent heard an exact number, but im sure we had more than that show up.

[Gareth51]

Will be there next time if the unions stay away

[riffer]

Won't be unions next time I reckon. I'd like to see 10,000 bikes holding up the whole of Wellington. Looking at those photos too I better do something about my gut or think seriously about buying a Harley...

[XP@]

Did the protest happen today?

There is no goddamn record of it anywhere!
(Edit: It's a trick question cos I was there so I know it did but there is no real proof!)

[pete376403]

Was mentioned on page 138 of teletext at around 7pm. Gone now, though

[Conquiztador]

Found this: http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1002/S00187.htm

and this: http://www.nzpaimages.co.nz/events.php?event_id=9681&show_all=0&page_no=0

and: http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/angry-acc-protesters-return-118647

one more: http://www.guide2.co.nz/politics/news/angry-acc-protesters-return/11/14227

[invisiblehand1]

well well well.

What a fucking surprise.

So we let the unions take over the protest and make bikers look like they were just cover for a government bashing campaign. and then they fuck it up. Typical.

Feel like we're getting our voice heard now? Think we've fixed ACC yet? Think the Government will listen? Or maybe think that plonker Smith now knows no-one cares enough to complain.

There's a lesson in here. Never let the focus of your campaign be co-opted by others. Stay focused, stay on topic. The protest about fee hikes was legitimate. A multi-purpose mixed objective save ACC from the evil government campaign was dumb as a rock. Funnily enough, some people might have mentioned this earlier.

But hey, with thousands of brother unionists marching in unison, how could the evil Nats do anything but quail at the people's will unleashed. What could possibly go wrong?

Bwuhahaha.

[caseye]

cheers for the links Con, didn't see you there but hoped the electrics worked.
invisiblehand, thanks for the advice.
Did you attend in November?
What about yesterday?
Opinions are like arseholes , we've all got one.
You are entitled to yours, even to slag off those who did their best to make this work for us and the other groups affected by ACC Changes.
But don't come here expecting to find too many who will back you if you do.Making the effort is the first step. not giving up when given a wet fish is the next step.This is not over and we will be back and focused.

[sinfull]

Oh shit lol.......Nothing to be worried about there mate ya did bloody well, good on ya !


difference being that riders werent encouraged to attend today, we were only to show up, not be the whole event. if i recall, the preferred number of bikes was 500 for today. i havent heard an exact number, but im sure we had more than that show up. Couple hundy bikes if that i recon !

Think there were more police (with battons) filing into parliment than marchers ! Someone obviously thought the numbers were gonna be up there !


Won't be unions next time I reckon. I'd like to see 10,000 bikes holding up the whole of Wellington. Looking at those photos too I better do something about my gut or think seriously about buying a Harley... Works for me !!!

[Fatt Max]

well well well.

What a fucking surprise.

So we let the unions take over the protest and make bikers look like they were just cover for a government bashing campaign. and then they fuck it up. Typical.

Feel like we're getting our voice heard now? Think we've fixed ACC yet? Think the Government will listen? Or maybe think that plonker Smith now knows no-one cares enough to complain.

There's a lesson in here. Never let the focus of your campaign be co-opted by others. Stay focused, stay on topic. The protest about fee hikes was legitimate. A multi-purpose mixed objective save ACC from the evil government campaign was dumb as a rock. Funnily enough, some people might have mentioned this earlier.

But hey, with thousands of brother unionists marching in unison, how could the evil Nats do anything but quail at the people's will unleashed. What could possibly go wrong?

Bwuhahaha.

It's a case of looking at the bigger picture and, most of all, being there supporting those who are going out on a limb to fight on our behalf.

Mr Goff made an inspiring speech and then thanked all of us for "coming out and standing up for our rights". It sounds so much better through a big PA, but you had to be there....

The speakers were a varied bunch all with a varied angle and brought up so many different things to think about, it was quite amazing how much the ACC changes will affect all NZ'ers, these speakers were great, cant quite explain in words reallly, you had to be there........

The bikers that did the organising and speaking, again shouting up for all bikers. Incredible passion in their words which is so hard to put down on paper, you really had to be there......

Mr Invisible, as Caseye said, everyone is entitled to an opinion. We turned up yesterday, made some noise, made a stand and promised to be back. My opinion is that it was humbling to be in amongst so much passion which could not be extiguished by some thing like lack of numbers. We came back and we are going back again. If you were there and witnesssed it then great, good onya and thanks. If you were not, well, these few words of mine may not make an impact to sway your viewpoint......you really had to be there.....

[riffer]

well well well.

What a fucking surprise.

So we let the unions take over the protest and make bikers look like they were just cover for a government bashing campaign. and then they fuck it up. Typical.

Feel like we're getting our voice heard now? Think we've fixed ACC yet? Think the Government will listen? Or maybe think that plonker Smith now knows no-one cares enough to complain.

There's a lesson in here. Never let the focus of your campaign be co-opted by others. Stay focused, stay on topic. The protest about fee hikes was legitimate. A multi-purpose mixed objective save ACC from the evil government campaign was dumb as a rock. Funnily enough, some people might have mentioned this earlier.

But hey, with thousands of brother unionists marching in unison, how could the evil Nats do anything but quail at the people's will unleashed. What could possibly go wrong?

Bwuhahaha.

You missed the point dude. This was never intended to be huge representation by motorcyclists at this one. In the end, yes, very disappointing the lack of show by the unionists; probably due mostly to it being a complicated message we were trying to push. Union members aren't too great on the multi-message thing.

Oh well, whatever, nevermind. Live and Learn. You do however have a good point about focus. I'm not daunted; I'll be continuing my efforts with BRONZ to look for new ways to keep the message going.

[MSTRS]

Union members aren't too great on the multi-message thing....

They must be very 'challenged' if they can't understand "You pay more. You get less"

[BMWST?]

there was a segment on tv3 news

[invisiblehand1]

Hmmm, there's a lot of "missing the point" going on in this thread dude.

If this wasnt about biker issues, why are 332 messages on here and why did we have a Bikoi?

Face it, this was an epic fail. We handed our issue to the labour party and the unions and they fucked it up. Ok Stony tried hard and is clearly a good bloke, but man was that a dumb move.

The FAILED protest - thats right FAILED protest now tells the government that noone cares about the issue.

But we can sing the red flag and twitter on about how phil goff gave a great speech at *his* and the unions protest rally, which if you were to notice, is how the media have portrayed it. If you can find it in page D47 of the paper, next to the lost kitten story.

There's a very simple lesson. Don't get into bed with the unions, they dont give a fuck about biker issues, they just wanted a stick to beat the government with, and look how that turned out.

[MSTRS]

So, Mr I Can't See Your Hand, how do you suggest we get the whole country informed and involved?
Because this is NOT a biker issue.

[XP@]

Blink and you will miss it!
http://www.3news.co.nz/Angry-ACC-protestors-return/tabid/309/articleID/142033/Default.aspx

[invisiblehand1]

If its not a biker issue, why did we start it , and why are there 335 comments on the thread? Of course its a bloody biker issue.

But, since you ask. The country does get fairness, and the pollies do understand how to mollify interest groups.

Bikers are generally grown up blokes (edit, and lots of committed women), most of us have businesses and families these days - we are the backbone of the economy. We pay a lot of taxes, we are a powerful lobby of voters, if we harness it. Plus (and as the Unions knew when they 5th columned the protest and took it over) hundreds of bikes are great visuals, we are lots of scary guys in black leather with loud bikes, we make a great show. People notice and it gets all over the news.

You saw from the lunchtime TVNZ crew, they were wetting themselves with excitement at the huge hairy biker protest, how it would be all over the news bulletins, and drive a story for the next couple of days.

They got a squib, a couple of dozen public servants, and a few polite bikes parked round the corner just for show, and the usual speech about how when labour gets back into power in 2095 or whenever they will care more about ACC claimants than the other mob. Yawn.

Our issue was clear. The hike WAS and IS bloody unfair. We are a very powerful lobby we have cash, we have resources, and together we get noticed.

TIme to get back to basics. Its a Bikoi. Its about fairness. Bikers are being punished because the government thinks there arent enough of us to make a fuss. You might be next.

These are very good messages. SImple. Clear, and above all True.

Then we turn up all hairy and scary and in very big numbers, and we aren't very polite. Righteous anger makes the news.

A typical wellington rent a crowd to eat their lunch at Parliament on their lunchbreak, well that happens a dozen or so times a year, who cares?

OK?

[Nasty]

Blah blah
Bikers are generally grown up blokes, most of us have businesses and families these days - we are the backbone of the economy. We pay a lot of taxes, we are a powerful lobby of voters, if we harness it. Plus (and as the Unions knew when they 5th columned the protest and took it over) hundreds of bikes are great visuals, we are lots of scary guys in black leather with loud bikes, we make a great show. People notice and it gets all over the news.
yadda yadda

Ok ... you just isolated me ... woman - have a business - work as well - and not a scary hairy biker ... congrats.

[MSTRS]

If its not a biker issue, why did we start it , and why are there 335 comments on the thread? Of course its a bloody biker issue.

...gobbledegook...

OK?
Are you thick?
It's only a biker issue in so far as the rego levy is concerned. Which got our attention. In the overall scheme of ACC and what is happening, that is just a sideshow.

[Mom]

Bikers are generally grown up blokes...

Um, it might strengthen your position a bit if you do not exclude a very large part of the motorcycling community in this country mate. This one did not come off, does not mean we have gone away, though let them think that if they like.

[invisiblehand1]

sorry there Masty & Mom, blokes and blokesses. You are quite right.

I forgot the other rule of successful media management. Leather clad women should always be at the front in protests. Tthe cameras love them, and if hot women are involved the protest must be in a good cause.

[invisiblehand1]

yeah right you are Mstrs.

hundreds of bikers in big protest about fairness - big story, government backtracks (a bit)

200 people turn up to eat their lunch and listen to union plonkers - no issue, no story no change.

But other than that you completely right etc.

[MSTRS]

I feel another Letter to Ed coming on...

So the ‘big’ union protest at Parliament turned out to be a whimper. The bikers who turned up in support out-numbered them 3-1. It seems that bikers are the only section of NZ society who really understand what is happening to ACC. Is the rest of NZ quite happy to have all levies increased and all services, entitlements, etc reduced or removed altogether?
Most of us know the old joke “If you break your leg, don’t come running to me” – it may not be so funny in future.
A speaker at the protest told us that there are people appointed by ACC to assess trauma (esp rape) victims for counselling treatment, who are declining said victims, and who receive as much as $8000 per week (!!) as a thank you from ACC. What a disgrace.
And it is only going to get worse. If we, the people, don’t stop it.

Any suggestions (yes, alright, very funny I'm sure) before I send it?

[Headbanger]

So, Mr I Can't See Your Hand, how do you suggest we get the whole country informed and involved?
Because this is NOT a biker issue.

Perhaps we can't?

Perhaps we should fight it as a biker issue if we can't get the numbers from the public to fight the entire system.

And perhaps we should concentrate on the retarded system of escaulating costs based on the capacity of the bike engine and get that stopped.

[Ixion]

We can take some learnings from this.

Firstly, the bike presence was reasonable. This was never intended to be our gig, we were only the supporting act. Bikers are not the only people affected by ACC changes : we said our piece in November, the others supported us. Tuesday was for the others to do their thing with us in support. On that basis 200 bikes (some from quite a distance) is not a bad turnout. So, we can take out that the biker support is still there.

As far as the union gig went, it has to be reckoned a fail. What does that imply? Presumably, that Joe Q Public, that deep and incisive thinker, isn't really bothered about what is happening with ACC. He *should* be, but that is a different matter. The real power base of the unions is the job delegate. Clearly , they weren't engaged. We can take from that that we are unlikely to get active public support - Joe Q perceives that we got our levies reduced , so that's all good, and he's not worried for himself. Either we need a LOT more education (but can we expect to do that better than the Unions and the Labour party, with all their resources ?) or we have to accept that it's a biker only gig here on.

And the press- very obvious that it's the 'biker' bit (male or female) that gets them excited . The unions failed to turn out numbers , and didn't put on a spectacle. So, not newsworthy. We can take out, that anything we do HAS to be impressive. It needs to make the press dollies get all wet and trembly , and the press guys doubled over with an epic hard on.

Mr Smith ? He refused even to talk to this one. That makes sense, he'd perceive it as being a Labour/union deal, and figure that those people would never vote National so why waste time on them. Bikers, he can't be sure. And he'll be less sure now - "Hm, the bikers organised their own protest and 7000 turned out. The unions organised a protest and invited bikers, and only 200 turned out. Does that imply that the other 6800 are National supporters who didn't want to support a union effort. Shit "

In summary :

The biker bit was OK - not impressive but a reasonable turnout
The union bit missed fire completely
Joe Q Public isn't worried about what's happening with ACC.
We need to do a lot more education of Joe and Jenny
Even then, we need to reckon on it being bikers only henceforth. The unions won't try again
Mr Smith may be even more cautious of biker power

[MSTRS]

I hear what you are saying, HB (and HandNotSeen;))...
The problem is that we know it's not just about rego levies, and if we go down that path, we are simply "Those bloody bikers...never happy" to JoePublic and we don't carry enough clout to turn back the process of destroying ACC. Which we actually want to keep as it was intended originally.
It's tricky...we can't win on our own issue, but we can't fight for the rest without their support.

[StoneY]

I feel another Letter to Ed coming on...

Any suggestions (yes, alright, very funny I'm sure) before I send it?

Nice letter MSTRS
No suggestions, its just right as it is

Yes the Unions let us down.
They spent a few grand on advertising, and 80 odd followers showed up with 300 bikers in attendance

Im grateful to all who DID show, and I must say our speakers and the support from Red and Green was awesome.

Saw the writing on the wall yesterday, and to be honest I am depressed....the rest of this country just dont give a fuck, sheep, lemmings, any other dumb flock/pack animal you can name.

All of you who came along, and all who contributed to this thread, thanks.

The rest of New Zealand, (apathetic fucking sheep they are) well they can kiss my lilly white arse, I aint gonna cry for em when the crunch comes and they get shoved on the dole after being hit by a fuckin truck...I will stand on the curb and laugh at their bleeding bodies and say "well, WE told you fuckers, so dont cry to me that you didnt know"

Im taking a long break from ACC related bullshit, carry on the fight team but I need a rest

EDIT: One big victory yesterday (hot air maybe but IS now on record) Labour and the Greens BOTH promised if theyre in power after the next election, ACC will be returned to the Woodhouse Plan as it should be.

[Mom]

Im taking a long break from ACC related bullshit, carry on the fight team but I need a rest

EDIT: One big victory yesterday (hot air maybe but IS now on record) Labour and the Greens BOTH promised if theyre in power after the next election, ACC will be returned to the Woodhouse Plan as it should be.

Dont make it too long StoneY. I understand you with needing a break, i bowed out up here for a rest at the end of last year. I am refreshed now, and about ready to get out and have another crack at this. Dont be discouraged, or depressed mate. The message is still being heard, we are still here and we are still not happy. I am with Ixion on this, it will be the bikers that will be the force to be reckoned with.
Have a good rest, I promise in a couple of months you will feel much better.

Thank you for all the effort you hav eput in to date, I appreciate it as I am sure many other do too.

[Bald Eagle]

Dont make it too long StoneY. I understand you with needing a break, i bowed out up here for a rest at the end of last year. I am refreshed now, and about ready to get out and have another crack at this. Dont be discouraged, or depressed mate. The message is still being heard, we are still here and we are still not happy. I am with Ixion on this, it will be the bikers that will be the force to be reckoned with.
Have a good rest, I promise in a couple of months you will feel much better.

Thank you for all the effort you hav eput in to date, I appreciate it as I am sure many other do too.

Totally agree, you need to take time for yourself, smell the roses, spray the weeds whatever analogy works for you. We will be active in the meantime and they will not be allowed to forget that we are still angry and come November StoneY's birthday will be another big day

[bogan]

It does seem that Joe public doesn't care, or doesn't know, though i think I've personally informed more of the public about what is happening than the number that turned up yesterday so I guess they just don't care. Perhaps they see the possibility of an accident happening to them to be so small as to not worry about the reduced rehabilitation and compensation, perhaps the levy is taken out so subtly they do not see just how big the increases are, I think its both, and we would have a bloody hard time changing either.

The most annoying thing though is the facts are there for everyone to see, if only the media would pick up on it, maybe if we find Nick and/or John turn out to have shares in Aussie insurance companies it'll create a story!

Mind you, we can always try and make this into a big election issue in 2011, and have a blast at the next bikeoi!

[GOONR]

Extracted from Parliament Q&A (http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1002/S00213.htm) yesterday...

Accident Compensation—Government Actions

5. MICHAEL WOODHOUSE (National) to the Minister for ACC: What steps is the Government taking to secure the long-term future of ACC and why are these necessary?

Hon Dr NICK SMITH (Minister for ACC): The Government has strengthened the financial governance skills on the Accident Compensation Corporation’s (ACC’s) board and reversed the decisions of the previous Government in costly areas like physiotherapy and suicide coverage extensions. We have taken steps to improve rehabilitation rates, and we have extended the fullfunding date for the scheme to 2019. These steps are necessary to address the steep rise in the accident compensation scheme’s claim costs, large losses, and the huge increase in the scheme’s unfunded liabilities.

Michael Woodhouse: What reports has the Minister received on the claims today by former ACC Minister Maryan Street that the corporation was in financial good health at the change of Government?

Hon Dr NICK SMITH: The audited accounts of ACC for the year 2007-08, signed by Ms Street and ex - Council of Trade Unions chair Ross Wilson, declared a loss of $2.4 billion—the largest in ACC’s 35-year history. Those reports also showed that the scheme’s unfunded liability during the previous Government’s term ballooned by $9 billion, and that claim costs were growing at five times the rate of inflation. Labour is clearly in denial on the scheme’s mismanagement.

Michael Woodhouse: What message does he take from today’s protest on Parliament’s steps of about 150 people over accident compensation, when it is compared with the 6,000 who protested last year?

Mr SPEAKER: I apologise to the honourable Minister, but I could not hear that question. I ask Michael Woodhouse to repeat it.

Michael Woodhouse: Thank you, Mr Speaker; I would be delighted to. What message does he take from today’s protest on Parliament’s steps of about 150 people over accident compensation, when it is compared with the 6,000 who protested last year?

Hon Dr NICK SMITH: The message I take is that the public now well understands the reasons for the changes the Government is making to the scheme. The bikers today were taken for a bit of a ride by the unions. It was an ideological protest, led by those responsible for the scheme’s financial woes, against a pragmatic Government determined to make the scheme affordable and fair, and to secure it for the future.

[Scuba_Steve]

I think one of our biggest problems is corporate news media, they NEVER report the true, full or unbiased story. Rupert Murdoch himself said it best when he said "the media create the news", Until the media stop creating the news & start reporting it, it will always be an uphill battle.

[Ixion]

Hon Dr NICK SMITH: The message I take is that the public now well understands the reasons for the changes the Government is making to the scheme. The bikers today were taken for a bit of a ride by the unions. It was an ideological protest, led by those responsible for the scheme’s financial woes, against a pragmatic Government determined to make the scheme affordable and fair, and to secure it for the future.

Hmm. Need to think about this.

[CherryB]

We can't all turn out every time, so we need to be strategic from here on out.

We need to not bag the unions/ journalists who do give us cover/any other allies, even if we are disappointed with their comms efforts and turn out. Divide and conquer is the Govt's gig, we don't need to help them.

We need to hype and be positive about what has happened, whether it fits our hopes or not. Tell the public and media it is raising awareness that even Treasury says it is unjust to make us use our holiday pay before getting ACC, the Health Ministry opposed the changes to cover and access to treatment, and that ACC ain't broke.

Our ongoing strategy should be targeted, focused on getting messages out about why what they are doing is wrong and embarrassing Govt. Look for their photo ops and turn up with a small noisy group and big signs. Turn up to their election gigs next year with reminders of their screw ups (not just ACC tho keep it a big message) and sneaky acts.

Some of my messages:
ACC was brought in so we don't have to sue. This Government is moving it back towards a private system where we'll have to sue.

ACC’s logic seems to be that you are not at fault if careless or dangerous if your vehicle is big enough but you are "at fault" (even if you’re riding safely) on a small vehicle if you have a number plate? Riders who weren't at fault under the old system and could sue are now the ones being charged more.

That's not fair, it doesn't fit the no-fault model, and it doesn't make sense.

Not all activities or jobs are as safe as each other. But without people living an active life and doing the dangerous jobs society wouldn't work and we'd die out as a species.

Without the freedom to live an active life, Hillary wouldn’t have been the first to climb Everest, the All Blacks wouldn’t be a force to reckon with in rugby, Burt Munro wouldn’t have become a legend and Kiwis wouldn’t have won an America’s Cup.

ACC is not broke or in deficit by most people’s standards. It takes in 1/3 to 1/4 more than it spends in a year (on admin and past and current accident costs) – at the OLD LEVY RATES, and its investments are doing well.

ACC ain’t broke, and we don’t want it broken.
· One levy rate for all!
· Keep levies to what is needed.
· Don’t take away our holidays.
· Give treatment where it is needed.

See also http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1002/S00163.htm

[CherryB]

p.s. when I say 'my' messages, they are my distillation of what 'we' have been saying, thinking about what to focus on, keeping it clear, getting public aware, showing it ain't just us, etc. In a short no of words... that is the hard bit!!!

[Fatt Max]

Dont make it too long StoneY. I understand you with needing a break, i bowed out up here for a rest at the end of last year. I am refreshed now, and about ready to get out and have another crack at this. Dont be discouraged, or depressed mate. The message is still being heard, we are still here and we are still not happy. I am with Ixion on this, it will be the bikers that will be the force to be reckoned with.
Have a good rest, I promise in a couple of months you will feel much better.

Thank you for all the effort you hav eput in to date, I appreciate it as I am sure many other do too.

+1 on this, well done Mom,

Yeah StoneY, see why you need to takle some time out and it's well deserved. But we need you mate like all the others that get out there and put the work in.

And, if you stay away too long I will come looking for you wearing nothing but a thong......and noone wants that...

[Ratti]

[QUOTE=Fatt Max;1129652462

And, if you stay away too long I will come looking for you wearing nothing but a thong......and noone wants that...[/QUOTE]

O, I don't know FM.. .

[riffer]

Got to admit I was not happy when I read Glenn Barclay's email this morning discussing what the cowardly weasel had said in parliament yesterday.

I'm thinking we really do need a combination of guerilla tactics (small disruptive groups upsetting their meets/photo ops) and a few big big events.

We've pussyfooted around not wanting to upset the public and I reckon yesterday was the end result of not wanting to upset anyone. It ain't going to make ANY difference if we be nice. I think we need to actually give them something to worry about. And if this means civil disruption I'm okay with that. I hope the weasel does take out of yesterday that most bikers aren't lefties and that votes are on the line. Maybe we need some bikes waiting at the airports on days he flies in so that we can shadow his crown car all the way to parliament. We need to get him worried again. Right now he's feeling ten foot tall.

[Ixion]

We can't all turn out every time, so we need to be strategic from here on out.

We need to not bag the unions/ journalists who do give us cover/any other allies, even if we are disappointed with their comms efforts and turn out. Divide and conquer is the Govt's gig, we don't need to help them.


I suspect that the Labour/union comms was OK, at least as gooda s the BIKEOI!. But Joe Q just wasn't interested.

Partly because a lot of the changes are technical , partly because of the "never happen to me anyway' syndrome, partly cos of general apathy.

We need to remember, we always said it was a two YEAR campaign.

I think I'm also seeing a take out that (a) marches don't work. The anti-smacking march was a let-down, ditto this. For some reason the "protest march " thing just doesn't engage people anymore. This is where we have an advantage, bikers will ALWAYS turn out for a ride.

(b) - I think that there needs to be a single clear easily understandable focus to any protest action. BIKEOI! worked . "Why should I protest? " . "Because ACC want to put your rego up to $1000. " "Right, I'm in". Versus Tuesday "Why should I protest?" . "Because - long winded complicated explanation about ACC changes". "Uh, sorry , got to wash my poodle".

If we want to engage Joe we need a focus point . A single clear easily understood message. Joe Q doesn't understand Woodhouse,and doesn't care. He thought that bikers were being rorted with a $1000 rego fee, and supported us. $1000 he understands. The changes going through now, he doesn't understand. Even if they affect him, he doesn't understand.

[oldrider]

well well well.

What a fucking surprise.

So we let the unions take over the protest and make bikers look like they were just cover for a government bashing campaign. and then they fuck it up. Typical.

Feel like we're getting our voice heard now? Think we've fixed ACC yet? Think the Government will listen? Or maybe think that plonker Smith now knows no-one cares enough to complain.

There's a lesson in here. Never let the focus of your campaign be co-opted by others. Stay focused, stay on topic. The protest about fee hikes was legitimate. A multi-purpose mixed objective save ACC from the evil government campaign was dumb as a rock. Funnily enough, some people might have mentioned this earlier.

But hey, with thousands of brother unionists marching in unison, how could the evil Nats do anything but quail at the people's will unleashed. What could possibly go wrong?

Bwuhahaha.

You may well gloat but while the points you highlight may have some validity in hindsight, the adage:

"To try but fail, is far more noble than to fail to try at all" springs to mind!

Not that I believe our (biker) reps failed yesterday.

They merely learned a lesson on where their support and loyalties can be utilised to advantage or not!

This was always going to be a long campaign!

[cowboyz]

people dont care. It is as simple as that. And they dont care because no one has given them a reason to care. The whole premise about not upsetting the public.. If they are not upset then they dont care. Doesnt make any difference to them. The govt got what they wanted. People got all up in arms about it and then realised there is frik all you can do about it.. why? because at the end of the day there will be people saying.. dont upset anyone.
We had the oppourtnity to bring the country to a standstill. We had the oppourinity to have chaos and really make a statement. We went in peace and peacefully got told to shove it up our arse.

Now I am not negating any of the effort that has been put it. Its just if you try and make an omelette without breaking the eggs you cant complain about finding shell in your food.

[Squiggles]

people dont care. It is as simple as that. And they dont care because no one has given them a reason to care. The whole premise about not upsetting the public.. If they are not upset then they dont care. Doesnt make any difference to them. The govt got what they wanted. People got all up in arms about it and then realised there is frik all you can do about it.. why? because at the end of the day there will be people saying.. dont upset anyone.
We had the oppourtnity to bring the country to a standstill. We had the oppourinity to have chaos and really make a statement. We went in peace and peacefully got told to shove it up our arse.

Now I am not negating any of the effort that has been put it. Its just if you try and make an omelette without breaking the eggs you cant complain about finding shell in your food.

The "march for democracy" on queen street was disruptive, but did what in the end?

[Headbanger]

Rghto, Lets have a few hundred bikes doing laps through Wellington, once we have more mass then the traffic lights then the city will come to a standstill, afterwords we can just dissipate.

That will fuck em.

Personally I think that without the masses willing to do anything we should concentrate on biker issues, Perhaps the public are happy with the changes to ACC, They do at least seem to act that way.

[CherryB]

re:
Hon Dr NICK SMITH: The message I take is that the public now well understands the reasons for the changes the Government is making to the scheme. The bikers today were taken for a bit of a ride by the unions. It was an ideological protest, led by those responsible for the scheme’s financial woes, against a pragmatic Government determined to make the scheme affordable and fair, and to secure it for the future.

Hm. Affordable? Fair? By whose standards? More expensive, with less cover doesn't seem to fit that bill. If the public was aware of, let alone understood, what was happening they would be a lot more active.

[CherryB]

Lots of people who belong to Unions heard nothing about this from their unions, even reps didn't hear about it. So I do think comms was an issue.

And agree that the messages were too complicated. It needs to stay simple so people understand how they are being screwed and keep to the bits they will emotionally respond to. It ain't about educating them, it is about letting them see what affects them:
- losing your holiday pay (and even Treasury say that is unjust)
- losing some of your cover and treatment
- higher levies out of your wages and regos when ACC is taking in far more than it spends already.
- we're going to end up having to sue each other again if this carries on.

[sunhuntin]

This is where we have an advantage, bikers will ALWAYS turn out for a ride.

and the public will always support a group of bikes, no matter the reason. i remember last year, there were hundreds of joe q's on the overbridges, all excited simply cos we were bikes. hell, i went through otaki alone yesterday, and one small boy was just about waving his arm off, he was so excited, and i was just a solo bike. they may not understand, but they will back us. im sure of it.

[MSTRS]

and the public will always support a group of bikes, no matter the reason. i remember last year, there were hundreds of joe q's on the overbridges, all excited simply cos we were bikes. hell, i went through otaki alone yesterday, and one small boy was just about waving his arm off, he was so excited, and i was just a solo bike. they may not understand, but they will back us. im sure of it.

Kids are often like that.
And last year, we got plenty of support because even JoePublic could understand the raw deal we were working against. The problem is that what affects JoePublic personally, is very subtle and the effect(s) are not being given the highlights that 'our' levies were. The 'big drop' in the levy means that, as far as JoePublic ic concerned, there isn't a problem now, and we are unlikely to enjoy anything close to the support we did last year.

[oldrider]

Rghto, Lets have a few hundred bikes doing laps through Wellington, once we have more mass then the traffic lights then the city will come to a standstill, afterwords we can just dissipate.

That will fuck em.

Personally I think that without the masses willing to do anything we should concentrate on biker issues, Perhaps the public are happy with the changes to ACC, They do at least seem to act that way.

A few years ago we were all outraged by the activities of the Muslim terrorists and now it is just an everyday occurrence that nobody even barley thinks about!

It's called conditioning!

This government made their move, declared their intentions, rode out the initial reaction and waited for the conditioning to settle in and set the date for the next reaction wave!

That will be the date of the commencement for paying the levies, there will be a mini reaction and then it will all settle down to individual grizzling as each individual pays their levy!

Gradually these discontents will accumulate enough until there is a change of government and then (under MMP) it will all begin again with almost the same people back in coalition!

MMP only ensures that the politicians are safe in their jobs and between them "they" decide who and what coalition and will continue to do their own bidding rather than the bidding of the disenfranchised voters!

STV would at least make the politicians accountable to the voters rather than themselves, as they are now!

MMP provides us with nothing more than a "democratically elected dictatorship", finally chosen by the politicians themselves!

Spot the difference between any of the previous MMP coalitions, what have we gained or lost because of them and how many of them have ever been held accountable for their failures?

They just keep on coming back through the back door and the public conditioning process just keeps on keeping on, Nothing changes!

They are completely confidant that they can call the tune and predict how the mob will dance to "their" melody!

So, if we keep on doing the same thing over and over, expecting a different result, we are living in nanna land, we have to find a new strategy with the ability to surprise and kick "them" out of their comfort zone!

[GSL]

Another failed biker protest in Wellington. I think the definition of stupidity is continuing to do the same thing but expecting a different result. When have “polite”, “don’t upset the public” biker protests ever achieved anything – never.
The problem in Wellington is that those with the resources to organise protests are normally inefficient, overpaid public servants more worried about retaining their snouts in the public purse trough than “real protest”. They may get a warm fussy from yesterday but in reality they are just puppets for the Labour party.
A “Real Protest” could shut down Wellington very easily. Just need about 200 bikers, real bikers and not the pathetic “don’t upset the public mob”. A lot of opportunities have gone to waste, especially when about 6,000 bikers were available in Wellington last year.
Maybe I will come across some bikers with real balls at this weeks HOG Rally!

[GOONR]

Another failed biker protest in Wellington.....

Please explain. This was not a biker protest as such and what was a failure about the last one in Wellington?

[MSTRS]

Another ...

5th post, in the same vein. Not a single idea, other than 'disruption'. Not a single offer to do better. Not a single offer to help others in organising.
Criticism is useful, but not unaccompanied by alternative(s).

[mashman]

Thought i had to post this. Was just asked where i was yesterday. So spoke to my colleague about ACC, their proposals and the potential end game. Well, got as far as to say and they're looking at taking you holidays... when my colleague piped up with "hey look there's an indian couple arguing in the car park..." now that was dissapointing. But i guess it illustrates what many have said already. Noone knows, noone cares. I'll wait until the employee levies go through before I attempt to re-engage the office, because then they'll have proof that they're losing out when they look at their pay-slip.

I thouroughly enjoyed yesterday. The speakers were great, irrespective of the "give us your vote stuff and when we get back in blah blah blah"... as for the turnout, ha ha haaaa, is that the best the Unions can do... whilst i see that some of them are fighting for their own members... since when did their own members not have families, friends or clients that are going to also be affected... it was piss poor and it's an insult to the amount of hard work that must have gone on behind the scenes... enjoy the break Stones and thanks to all who have and are putting so much of themselves and their lives on hold to defend the rights of their fellow countrymen...

As far as peaceful disruption goes... we could have some fun with that... 200 nekkid bikers, well nearly nekkid, enough to not be arrested, walking through the streets, and i mean on the road, of (ANY/EVERY CITY) with

courtesy of CherryB
- losing your holiday pay (and even Treasury say that is unjust)
- losing some of your cover and treatment
- higher levies out of your wages and regos when ACC is taking in far more than it spends already.
- we're going to end up having to sue each other again if this carries on.

written across your fronts/backs... That could be done anytime... might get a different kind of rise out of the public...

everyone loves a little flesh, perhaps the government would like to choose the pound they want off of me personally!

[StoneY]

A “Real Protest” could shut down Wellington very easily. Just need about 200 bikers, real bikers and not the pathetic “don’t upset the public mob”. A lot of opportunities have gone to waste, especially when about 6,000 bikers were available in Wellington last year.
Maybe I will come across some bikers with real balls at this weeks HOG Rally!


Complying with the legal requirements to enter Parliaments grounds is far from being 'less than a biker' or having no balls as you claim

9,500 of us put in far more effort than you EVER will

As for finding more real bikers at the HOG rally, no offence to the HOG group but not a lot of those machines roll down the highway every day, and many never get wet beyond a wash in the driveway

Bet you think the guy that did the burnout on the Stadium damaging the valuable assett loaned to us by Westpac Stadium was a 'cool hardcore REAL biker' yet the coward has never fronted up to assist with the repairs

I ride my bike in ALL weather EVERY day through the rush hour traffic, I own 3 bikes and have been on no less than 6 protest actions...where the hell have YOU been mr macho?
Lets see YOU gather 200 'BIKERS' and shut the city down, put ya ass where ya mouth is... do that and you can rubbish the efforst we made so far but till you do, piss off.

Now I agree with the fact its time to take more disruptive action, and I will put myself and my bikes on the line to do so but your poo pooing of our efforts to date makes me sick... all noise I will bet

[Toaster]

Dont make it too long StoneY. I understand you with needing a break, i bowed out up here for a rest at the end of last year. I am refreshed now, and about ready to get out and have another crack at this. Dont be discouraged, or depressed mate. The message is still being heard, we are still here and we are still not happy. I am with Ixion on this, it will be the bikers that will be the force to be reckoned with.
Have a good rest, I promise in a couple of months you will feel much better.

Thank you for all the effort you hav eput in to date, I appreciate it as I am sure many other do too.

I agree Mom and good to hear you are refreshed. StoneY great effort mate. It was great to be there and so good to see people voicing their right to speak up and to challenge what is being dished out to all bikers and those affected by the considerable changes at ACC levies and services. I for one have suffered so much because of thier denial to support my recovery.

Looking forward to the next one.

[cowboyz]

Ive said it before and Ill say it again.

If you want to make a mark.. You have to do something distruptive. Revolt. Dont want to pay truimped up ACC levies on regos... then dont! But to get it to work youd need a very very large percentage of people not paying. That means that some would get late penality notices..., some fined, hell, some even arrested. The problem is with the commitment. Its fine thinking for thought is thoughts but doing? Ppl will just fold because no one wants to be that person who takes the brunt of it.

Imagine what would happen.. just for a minute if the biking community was actually united. If *everyone* said. Fine.. make your rules but we just arent paying. Fine me some more.. Not paying.. Arrest me. Fine.. its for the cause. and no one paid. Would the govt back down? Its a numbers game.. What was the last figures? 200,000 bikes? 6000 at parliment. It was an awesome day but all they had to do was get through a couple of tough days of name calling and being shouted at and they got what they wanted in the first place.


I absoutely realise this is being idealistic.. Ppl wont ban together because ppl dont care. Its as simple as that.

[yungatart]

Got to admit I was not happy when I read Glenn Barclay's email this morning discussing what the cowardly weasel had said in parliament yesterday.

I'm thinking we really do need a combination of guerilla tactics (small disruptive groups upsetting their meets/photo ops) and a few big big events.

We've pussyfooted around not wanting to upset the public and I reckon yesterday was the end result of not wanting to upset anyone. It ain't going to make ANY difference if we be nice. I think we need to actually give them something to worry about. And if this means civil disruption I'm okay with that. I hope the weasel does take out of yesterday that most bikers aren't lefties and that votes are on the line. Maybe we need some bikes waiting at the airports on days he flies in so that we can shadow his crown car all the way to parliament. We need to get him worried again. Right now he's feeling ten foot tall.

On that note, John Key is scheduled to play golf in Napier on Saturday....anyone want to have a round?

As I see it, yesterday's protest was not a fail.
We said we'd be back, and we delivered!
We said we wouldn't go away, and we turned up again.
We said we weren't trout....we didn't forget that the country is being shafted.
How can that be a fail!

[Scuba_Steve]

Ive said it before and Ill say it again.

If you want to make a mark.. You have to do something distruptive. Revolt.

Yep I agree, time for a coup :rofl:

[cowboyz]

Yep I agree, time for a coup :rofl:

with chickens?

[CherryB]

We need a team of people to stand forward and volunteer to share the load in different areas to plan these protests.

Volunteers: say your region and ideas, 'skill areas' (things you know how to do that might be useful, useful contacts, etc) in a PM to Bald Eagle.

The idea about laps of the city is one that the peaceful protest organisers have looked at for next steps too.

This could be coordinated around the country.

It would also be useful to find out about places that Government will be and have small but loud and visible groups pushing one message at a time, esp events that will get media coverage. Let's do up some posters that people can store in their bike or backpack and pull out if the Govt turns up.

We also need some clear messages to help get joe and jane public to realise they can and should do something. Cos the media and others aren't doing enough. And we need them to "get it". They don't want or need to be 'educated', just get across what they need to know that affects them and will piss them off/make them think.

Some of these messages, picking a suitable one for each occasion.
- losing your holiday pay (and even Treasury say that is unjust)
- losing some of your cover and treatment
- higher levies out of your wages and regos when ACC is taking in far more than it spends already.
- we're going to end up having to sue each other again if this carries on.

Asking to get:
· One levy rate for all!
· Levies kept down to what is needed.
· Our holiday pay kept out of ACC.
· Treatment where it is needed.

[Stormer]

Right, I`ll try uploading these pics again...

Pic 1: The 4th ACC protest the blue Gixxer and it`s pilot have been to.
Pic 2: the Poetic Protester being shut down...the law turned up a short time later.
Pic 3: Cannot recall who the speaker was, but said some good stuff.
Pic 4: I now know this is the infamous Fat Max...the crowd loved ya dude!!
Pic 5: HA!! Sorry StoneY, no pics of your most fine performance...just call it payback for making me park CLOSER to that Harley! (A you-had-to-be-there type thing before anyone gets there tits all knotted up;))

[Pedrostt500]

The Reality is that the General public in NZ suffers from a major dose of Appathy, This is nothing new, it has been the Kiwi diesease for a number of decades.
Do you realy think the Government gives a fuck if you have rolling stops in the streets of any town or city, the answer is no, you might temporarily piss off Joe and Jane Public, but they are more worried about whats for dinner.
If you want the Politicans to notice you then you need to be where they are, Find a reason to visit your MP every time He / She is in your electorate, Go to Parliment and sit in the Public Gallery in your Bike Gear. If any Political party is having an event any where turn up with a dozen or more bikes and make yourselves seen.
Blocked streets in Wellington is a bit of a fact of life, most Wellingtonians accept traffic delays for what ever reason, Manning the Baracades may serve a few romantic fantasies, but I doubt they would serve any great blow to ACC and the Government, though Knock your selves out and I won't stand in your way, if you want to realy baracade Molesworth street with your Bikes.
Our fight with ACC and the Government is going to be a long game, it may play out long beyond the next election, a change of Government may not mean a change in Policey.

[blossomsowner]

We need a team of people to stand forward and volunteer to share the load in different areas to plan these protests.




It would also be useful to find out about places that Government will be and have small but loud and visible groups pushing one message at a time, esp events that will get media coverage. Let's do up some posters that people can store in their bike or backpack and pull out if the Govt turns up.

We also need some clear messages to help get joe and jane public to realise they can and should do something. Cos the media and others aren't doing enough. And we need them to "get it". They don't want or need to be 'educated', just get across what they need to know that affects them and will piss them off/make them think.






If there is interest for a demonstration of some sort.........
john key is supposed to be at patumahoe school officially opening the new admin block on march 12th at about 2.00pm

country school near pukekohe.............plenty of room for lots of bikes and banners.

[Owl]

A “Real Protest” could shut down Wellington very easily. Just need about 200 bikers, real bikers and not the pathetic “don’t upset the public mob”. A lot of opportunities have gone to waste, especially when about 6,000 bikers were available in Wellington last year.
Maybe I will come across some bikers with real balls at this weeks HOG Rally!

A Hog member mentioned this plan to me back in November, after the Bikeoi, which he didn't attend. A "cunning plan" involving a rather large roundabout near Wellington and 200 bikes going round and round and round. So if this plan was hatched 3 months ago, why haven't you and your hardcore brethren been able to organise such a simple task in such a long period of time?

Just curious!:whistle:

[riffer]

Had an idea for how to get public and news media's attention especially after seeing the naked bicyclist on the telly news (is THAT news?).

Nudity is bloody good at getting you noticed. We get a few hundred bikers, topless riding through the city. We proclaim "ACC is taking the shirts off our backs". Obviously works better if we have lots of female bikers too (although some of us have some pretty good man tits right now LOL).

I reckon we're guaranteed TV exposure with this. Trouble is, who's brave enough to do it. I would but hey I'm a guy. We need some brave women too...

[Hopeful Bastard]

Had an idea for how to get public and news media's attention especially after seeing the naked bicyclist on the telly news (is THAT news?).

Nudity is bloody good at getting you noticed. We get a few hundred bikers, topless riding through the city. We proclaim "ACC is taking the shirts off our backs". Obviously works better if we have lots of female bikers too (although some of us have some pretty good man tits right now LOL).

I reckon we're guaranteed TV exposure with this. Trouble is, who's brave enough to do it. I would but hey I'm a guy. We need some brave women too...

If there are other guys with man boobs then i will raise my hand for this. Also need somewhere to store my top and jacket.. :D

[riffer]

If there are other guys with man boobs then i will raise my hand for this. Also need somewhere to store my top and jacket.. :D


Mate - most of us over 35 have 'em.

[Laxi]

If there are other guys with man boobs then i will raise my hand for this. Also need somewhere to store my top and jacket.. :D


Mate - most of us over 35 have 'em.

ouch! BURRRRRN!!! :rofl:

[sunhuntin]

I reckon we're guaranteed TV exposure with this. Trouble is, who's brave enough to do it. I would but hey I'm a guy. We need some brave women too...

i would, but last time i forgot to wear a bra, i near knocked myself out on the bumps. lol. maybe ask that pron king guy if we could borrow some of his boobs on bikes girls?

[Mcycle]

On that note, John Key is scheduled to play golf in Napier on Saturday....anyone want to have a round?

As I see it, yesterday's protest was not a fail.
We said we'd be back, and we delivered!
We said we wouldn't go away, and we turned up again.
We said we weren't trout....we didn't forget that the country is being shafted.
How can that be a fail!

The latest protest was excellent, well done Stoney (and team) and don't let any negative wankers put you off the great work you are doing.

I look forward to the next protest and add my name to the support committee!

I agree that the next protest should be HUGE and disruptive (no more nice guys) in the meantime, I won't be paying no additonal ACC

[gazmascelle]

Had an idea for how to get public and news media's attention especially after seeing the naked bicyclist on the telly news (is THAT news?).

Nudity is bloody good at getting you noticed. We get a few hundred bikers, topless riding through the city. We proclaim "ACC is taking the shirts off our backs". Obviously works better if we have lots of female bikers too (although some of us have some pretty good man tits right now LOL).

I reckon we're guaranteed TV exposure with this. Trouble is, who's brave enough to do it. I would but hey I'm a guy. We need some brave women too...

Good call. Why spend shitloads on big screen ads etc when you get get your shirt off for free, and probably get a whole lot more attention (which is obviously what we need)

[Robert Taylor]

I disagree with the extent of the increase but undeniably like many other activities motorcyclists need to clean their act up

How many kids do you see riding scooters in shorts and jandals at this time of year? Answer way too many.

How many bikes that are ridden on the road are not in a fit condition to do so?

How many young idiots ride bikes at crazy speeds in built up areas?

How many bikes are too noisy and cause offence, thereby alienating the same everyday people who may otherwise deliver a level of support?

Etc.....

Im not bashing bikers and indeed I derive my income from same, just stating some relevant points.

In spite of denials to the contrary this campaign has to a degree been kidnapped by left wing activists and I see also Union support has been sanctioned. This should be apolitical on the part of bikers, many of whom like me are instinctive National voters and will still vote National regardless

[grantnz]

I think one of our biggest problems is corporate news media, they NEVER report the true, full or unbiased story. Rupert Murdoch himself said it best when he said "the media create the news", Until the media stop creating the news & start reporting it, it will always be an uphill battle.

Most dictatorships control the media, so why should NZ be any different. The Gummermint have probably instructed the media to only report the minimum so the public does not notice or care, because there is no attention grabbing story. Could have been tho, when the COPS turned up with long battons!! WTF? Were they for us, or maybe the Nurses Union?
A group of us had lunch with Phil Goff recently and the local paper reporter turned up along with a cameraman. It was wet, came straight from work etc.. ,so only 2 or 3 came on bikes. "Where are the angry bikers" said the reporter. I said " we are here". The look of disappointment on his face was priceless. Then in walked 2 motorcyclists in leathers and wet gear. He was off, photos, questions. It was like he had won Lotto. No ugly scenes, abuse or chants, did not make the paper.
Just like the crap coverage of Bikeoi, zoom in on a few Hogs with patched gang members and don't show what 6000 bikes stretched for 20 km looks like.

[Smifffy]

Pretty much all of the bikers from work who were rostered off during the bikeoi rode down for it, and those that could, took a couple of days leave to go. This week, one of the union delegates, who was rostered to be at work, took two days off to "attend union business in Wellington". I'm assuming that the business in question was to attend the march, unless they had also arranged for some other business to do whilst there also.

I doubt very much whether any of his union brothers that attended the bikeoi even knew that he was going down to Wellington, or what for.

[grantnz]

196997

What were they planning to do with thier accsesories?

[oldrider]

I disagree with the extent of the increase but undeniably like many other activities motorcyclists need to clean their act up

How many kids do you see riding scooters in shorts and jandals at this time of year? Answer way too many.

How many bikes that are ridden on the road are not in a fit condition to do so?

How many young idiots ride bikes at crazy speeds in built up areas?

How many bikes are too noisy and cause offence, thereby alienating the same everyday people who may otherwise deliver a level of support?

Etc.....

Im not bashing bikers and indeed I derive my income from same, just stating some relevant points.

In spite of denials to the contrary this campaign has to a degree been kidnapped by left wing activists and I see also Union support has been sanctioned. This should be apolitical on the part of bikers, many of whom like me are instinctive National voters and will still vote National regardless

Did you watch "60 minutes" on TV3 tonight?

Well I did and I wondered how much those team stock racers cost/contribute to ACC!

Hmmmm, divide and conquer raises it's ugly head here! :eek5:

Not that it would be of consequence if the governments ran ACC according to it's original (no blame) tenets! :brick:

[Robert Taylor]

Did you watch "60 minutes" on TV3 tonight?

Well I did and I wondered how much those team stock racers cost/contribute to ACC!

Hmmmm, divide and conquer raises it's ugly head here! :eek5:

Not that it would be of consequence if the governments ran ACC according to it's original (no blame) tenets! :brick:

No i didnt and have often thought and said that if you are involved in a discretional activity such as any form of sport you should have your own private cover.

[Smifffy]

I disagree with the extent of the increase but undeniably like many other activities motorcyclists need to clean their act up

How many kids do you see riding scooters in shorts and jandals at this time of year? Answer way too many.

How many bikes that are ridden on the road are not in a fit condition to do so?

How many young idiots ride bikes at crazy speeds in built up areas?

How many bikes are too noisy and cause offence, thereby alienating the same everyday people who may otherwise deliver a level of support?

Etc.....

The problem with most of these examples is that, in my opinion, you will find that most of the bikes guilty of these offences are also unregistered anyway - so again it is the law abiding, responsible ones, that are paying for the irresponsible.

I hope that when the changes go through that the revenue collectors blitz hard on unregoed vehicles

[sinfull]

and the public will always support a group of bikes, no matter the reason. i remember last year, there were hundreds of joe q's on the overbridges, all excited simply cos we were bikes. hell, i went through otaki alone yesterday, and one small boy was just about waving his arm off, he was so excited, and i was just a solo bike. they may not understand, but they will back us. im sure of it.
That was me you silly woman and if you call me boy again i'll bite your kneecaps !!!

Another failed biker protest in Wellington. I think the definition of stupidity is continuing to do the same thing but expecting a different result. When have “polite”, “don’t upset the public” biker protests ever achieved anything – never.
The problem in Wellington is that those with the resources to organise protests are normally inefficient, overpaid public servants more worried about retaining their snouts in the public purse trough than “real protest”. They may get a warm fussy from yesterday but in reality they are just puppets for the Labour party.
A “Real Protest” could shut down Wellington very easily. Just need about 200 bikers, real bikers and not the pathetic “don’t upset the public mob”. A lot of opportunities have gone to waste, especially when about 6,000 bikers were available in Wellington last year.
Maybe I will come across some bikers with real balls at this weeks HOG Rally! Was almost gonna say Hmmmm but then you came with the hog shit bwahahahaha fuck nancy !!!


Complying with the legal requirements to enter Parliaments grounds is far from being 'less than a biker' or having no balls as you claim

9,500 of us put in far more effort than you EVER will

As for finding more real bikers at the HOG rally, no offence to the HOG group but not a lot of those machines roll down the highway every day, and many never get wet beyond a wash in the driveway

Bet you think the guy that did the burnout on the Stadium damaging the valuable assett loaned to us by Westpac Stadium was a 'cool hardcore REAL biker' yet the coward has never fronted up to assist with the repairs

I ride my bike in ALL weather EVERY day through the rush hour traffic, I own 3 bikes and have been on no less than 6 protest actions...where the hell have YOU been mr macho?
Lets see YOU gather 200 'BIKERS' and shut the city down, put ya ass where ya mouth is... do that and you can rubbish the efforst we made so far but till you do, piss off.

Now I agree with the fact its time to take more disruptive action, and I will put myself and my bikes on the line to do so but your poo pooing of our efforts to date makes me sick... all noise I will bet Hehehe can i quote ya this time ???


A Hog member mentioned this plan to me back in November, after the Bikeoi, which he didn't attend. A "cunning plan" involving a rather large roundabout near Wellington and 200 bikes going round and round and round. So if this plan was hatched 3 months ago, why haven't you and your hardcore brethren been able to organise such a simple task in such a long period of time?

Just curious!:whistle: It was a bridge i tell ya ! A bridge !!! And a hill and a few hundy bikers is all !!!


Had an idea for how to get public and news media's attention especially after seeing the naked bicyclist on the telly news (is THAT news?).

Nudity is bloody good at getting you noticed. We get a few hundred bikers, topless riding through the city. We proclaim "ACC is taking the shirts off our backs". Obviously works better if we have lots of female bikers too (although some of us have some pretty good man tits right now LOL).

I reckon we're guaranteed TV exposure with this. Trouble is, who's brave enough to do it. I would but hey I'm a guy. We need some brave women too... Have four letters for ya ! WIMA


I disagree with the extent of the increase but undeniably like many other activities motorcyclists need to clean their act up

How many kids do you see riding scooters in shorts and jandals at this time of year? Answer way too many.

How many bikes that are ridden on the road are not in a fit condition to do so?

How many young idiots ride bikes at crazy speeds in built up areas?

How many bikes are too noisy and cause offence, thereby alienating the same everyday people who may otherwise deliver a level of support?

Etc.....

Im not bashing bikers and indeed I derive my income from same, just stating some relevant points.

In spite of denials to the contrary this campaign has to a degree been kidnapped by left wing activists and I see also Union support has been sanctioned. This should be apolitical on the part of bikers, many of whom like me are instinctive National voters and will still vote National regardless Jeeeesusss CHRIST Robert ????


The problem with most of these examples is that, in my opinion, you will find that most of the bikes guilty of these offences are also unregistered anyway - so again it is the law abiding, responsible ones, that are paying for the irresponsible.

I hope that when the changes go through that the revenue collectors blitz hard on unregoed vehicles Is everybody stoned here ?

[gazmascelle]

The problem with most of these examples is that, in my opinion, you will find that most of the bikes guilty of these offences are also unregistered anyway - so again it is the law abiding, responsible ones, that are paying for the irresponsible.

I hope that when the changes go through that the revenue collectors blitz hard on unregoed vehicles

huh? whats your point? what's my comment about means of getting attention got to do with unregistered bikes? wtf?

[sinfull]

huh? whats your point? what's my comment about means of getting attention got to do with unregistered bikes? wtf?

You go smoke some of that there stuff and catch up now ya here !!!

[Smifffy]

huh? whats your point? what's my comment about means of getting attention got to do with unregistered bikes? wtf?

Your post happened to be above the one I meant to quote. My bad. :Oops: Hope it helped to make your day a little more surreal at least. :wacko:

[gazmascelle]

yeah thanks.. real positive stuff there

wrong quote, all makes sense now

[Conquiztador]

When I have something to do that looks too big to conquer, then I normally cut it up in to bits that I can sort. And before I know it I have it all sorted.

We went down to Welly in November, we told Smitty that the raising of the ACC levies on bikes was BULLSHIT!. That was one bit. Only a small part of the changes ACC is gonna have done to it. And it worked!

Now how bout we take another bite. Just one. And we do the same thing: We all ride to Welly and tell them it is BULLSHIT! The bit I would like to bite in to is that we will have to use our Holidays first before we can get ACC. Wonder what would happen if 9,000 "angry bikers" would once again come to Welly to tell guvment that it is BULLSHIT? And do it as a Bikeoi, but tell others that they are welcome to attend...

[Pixie]

Okay. Put a spin on it.

The bikers are pissed off with mr Smith - 10000 odd turn up and demand his blood.

The unions are pissed off with Mr Smith - 50 odd turn up and whimper.

What does that say is the most potent political force - and thus least safe to piss off ?

Maybe we need to plan another big bike attack.Just so they get a reminder of this.
Do it after the levies come in and the wallet are still stinging.

[oldrider]

Maybe we need to plan another big bike attack.Just so they get a reminder of this.
Do it after the levies come in and the wallet are still stinging.

My little wallet is still smarting from the announcement, stinging is an understatment!

I don't really have a beef with their direction, more about the way it's being done!

I don't like being treated as a fool by a fool! :oi-grr:

[Mom]

Did you watch "60 minutes" on TV3 tonight?

Well I did and I wondered how much those team stock racers cost/contribute to ACC!

Hmmmm, divide and conquer raises it's ugly head here! :eek5:

Not that it would be of consequence if the governments ran ACC according to it's original (no blame) tenets! :brick:

I am currently having physio treatment for my foot. The required paperwork asks for 5 things that I can not do as a result of rupturing my ligament. I started with walking/weight bearing and movend on to climbing up the stairs. I wanted to write ride my motorcycle, as I still cant do that :weep: but the physio said best not to mentin motorcycles as ACC dont like them. He is a biker too, but how friggen stupid. This is all about rehabilitating me back so I can enjoy the things I used to do, and I can not mention motorcycles on my treatment form.

[caseye]

SUX ! aye Mom. No matter you'll be up an about soon enough, then God elp us!.
As for those posting with regards to more mass Bike protests.
Please people "READ" whats before you, November this year is when BikHoi 2 is planned for.
Yes after the wallets have been pried open.
Yes it'll be done by us for us.
And yes any other affected parties will be invited to join US!
This is ongoing, we haven't gone away we are not going to choke on what we bite off, we are going to either stop this thing altogether or make the Nats very very sick and show them come election time what we think of their ideas for making their rich freinds richer and the whole country poorer for this stupid incompetent legislation.
Hey Conquiztador nicely put, it is the way and please excuse my borrowing your line.

[oldrider]

I am currently having physio treatment for my foot. The required paperwork asks for 5 things that I can not do as a result of rupturing my ligament. I started with walking/weight bearing and movend on to climbing up the stairs. I wanted to write ride my motorcycle, as I still cant do that :weep: but the physio said best not to mentin motorcycles as ACC dont like them. He is a biker too, but how friggen stupid. This is all about rehabilitating me back so I can enjoy the things I used to do, and I can not mention motorcycles on my treatment form.

Too much influence from the AA has made them like that! I still think they (AA) are the real target for us to attack!

Good luck with your foot, makes me wish I was a Physiotherapist! :lol:

[Conquiztador]

I am currently having physio treatment for my foot. The required paperwork asks for 5 things that I can not do as a result of rupturing my ligament. I started with walking/weight bearing and movend on to climbing up the stairs. I wanted to write ride my motorcycle, as I still cant do that :weep: but the physio said best not to mentin motorcycles as ACC dont like them. He is a biker too, but how friggen stupid. This is all about rehabilitating me back so I can enjoy the things I used to do, and I can not mention motorcycles on my treatment form.

I have a few that you should add that restricts your freedom:
- Bungie jump
- Walk in a ACC protest
- Kick Smitty up the ass

[yungatart]

I am currently having physio treatment for my foot. The required paperwork asks for 5 things that I can not do as a result of rupturing my ligament. I started with walking/weight bearing and movend on to climbing up the stairs. I wanted to write ride my motorcycle, as I still cant do that :weep: but the physio said best not to mentin motorcycles as ACC dont like them. He is a biker too, but how friggen stupid. This is all about rehabilitating me back so I can enjoy the things I used to do, and I can not mention motorcycles on my treatment form.

That is, to put it bluntly, fucken ridiculous!
After my accident, I put riding down on my form.
If I were you, I'd put it down Anne. It IS important to you, you have paid your levies and now you get to reap the benefits of that.
FFS, you didn't even injure yourself on a bike, and so what if you had?
It is not up to ACC or anyone else to pass judgement on your lifestyle choices

[StoneY]

Too much influence from the AA has made them like that! I still think they (AA) are the real target for us to attack!

Good luck with your foot, makes me wish I was a Physiotherapist! :lol:

Mom I feel for ya your a trooper, and such injuries suck ass big time
Old your on a good one there, my old favourite red rep flame P.Dath has been doing marvelous work with the AA

He is on the verge of getting the pricks to support pay as you go through tireless and largley unrecognised efforts

That man deserves a Tui (maybe even a Blonde!)

Recover soon Anne we need troopers like you :niceone:

[MSTRS]

We went down to Welly in November, we told Smitty that the raising of the ACC levies on bikes was BULLSHIT!. That was one bit. Only a small part of the changes ACC is gonna have done to it. And it worked!


Just playing Devil's Advocate here...but did it work? The amount was dropped, but is still unpalatably higher than other forms of private transport. And the unwarranted cc split stayed in. Other than a 'nod' to the levy amount, not a single thing we said was listened to.

[kevie]

a couple pics I took of the protest on 16th as well.


While the numbers by the union(s) wasnt great the numbr of bikers was pretty good and a good day had and the message .... "we will be back" reinforced to the politicians

[Conquiztador]

Just playing Devil's Advocate here...but did it work? The amount was dropped, but is still unpalatably higher than other forms of private transport. And the unwarranted cc split stayed in. Other than a 'nod' to the levy amount, not a single thing we said was listened to.

I will refrace my point: I know that we are still charged a higher levy, I know that what we are now to pay most probably is what they were looking for to starters anyhow, but the November Bikeoi made a difference. We stood up, we made our point, and suddenly NZ Bikers are a group of ppl that are a force that needs to be considered when making decisions.

So I will parrot my self here: Lets take a new issue. One from the bunch of issues that we do not agree on and lets do it again. A single issue that we know that bikers are pissed off with and will all agree on. (I have said this umphteen times before, but feel I need to state it again: You will NEVER get bikers to agree on the whole "save our ACC" issue. many bikers want it privatised, many want it returned to how it was supposed to be etc. That is political, and even if we hear that this is political, for many bikers it is only re government bullkshit that we do not agree on. And yes, I realise that that is politics. But very few of us want to be politicaly active).

It has to be focused, it has to be simple, it has to be a "one issue" agenda.

Here a few:
- CC split
- STILL high levies!
- Loosing holidays before ACC kicks in
- Smaller ACC payments
- Bikes to be considered as part of the general motorists

And I could go on. But I think you get my point: This "Leave our ACC alone" is not uniting us bikers. It is deviding us!

[Bald Eagle]

A single issue that we can motivate bikers with and Jo and Jane Q Public will understand I like that


Loosing holidays before ACC kicks in

[mashman]

A single issue that we can motivate bikers with and Jo and Jane Q Public will understand I like that


Loosing holidays before ACC kicks in

When you're gone. Who will be looking after your children, friends, families, community should the worst happen?

[MSTRS]

... most probably is what they were looking for to starters anyhow, but the November Bikeoi made a difference. We stood up, we made our point, and suddenly NZ Bikers are a group of ppl that are a force that needs to be considered when making decisions.



I know exactly what you are saying, but still playing Devil's Advocate...if (and that's a big if, cos none of us are in the Prick's inner circle) the level of rise is what he'd planned in the first place - then what did we win?

[oldrider]

Just playing Devil's Advocate here...but did it work? The amount was dropped, but is still unpalatably higher than other forms of private transport. And the unwarranted cc split stayed in. Other than a 'nod' to the levy amount, not a single thing we said was listened to.

And the reduction was "predetermined" and factored in depending upon the reaction from us!

These politicians are really skilled at poking shit out to an apathetic public!

It is after all, "what they do" for an above average living!

What we are doing here is kicking each other's rice bowl.

They (the politicians) get their rice out of the public trough, so we get kicked twice as hard, twice as often!

And "we" pay for it "all"!

It's a bit like David Tua fighting Lennox Lewis, David never changed his tactics for the whole fight and was overwhelmed by Lewis's boxing skills!

Lewis on the other hand did show respect for Tua's "power", the result could have been different if David had only changed his approach, even just enough to confuse and surprise Lewis might have done it!

Give Smith and Smiley Key another taste of our power, then introduce an element of surprise and create confusion amongst their coalition partners and anti-motorcycle proponents, like the AA!

Works OK for Al-Qaeda, doesn't it?

If you always do what you always did, you will always get what you've always got! :shifty:

[Ixion]

I will refrace my point: I know that we are still charged a higher levy, I know that what we are now to pay most probably is what they were looking for to starters anyhow, but the November Bikeoi made a difference. We stood up, we made our point, and suddenly NZ Bikers are a group of ppl that are a force that needs to be considered when making decisions.

So I will parrot my self here: Lets take a new issue. One from the bunch of issues that we do not agree on and lets do it again. A single issue that we know that bikers are pissed off with and will all agree on. (I have said this umphteen times before, but feel I need to state it again: You will NEVER get bikers to agree on the whole "save our ACC" issue. many bikers want it privatised, many want it returned to how it was supposed to be etc. That is political, and even if we hear that this is political, for many bikers it is only re government bullkshit that we do not agree on. And yes, I realise that that is politics. But very few of us want to be politicaly active).

It has to be focused, it has to be simple, it has to be a "one issue" agenda.

Here a few:
- CC split
- STILL high levies!
- Loosing holidays before ACC kicks in
- Smaller ACC payments
- Bikes to be considered as part of the general motorists

And I could go on. But I think you get my point: This "Leave our ACC alone" is not uniting us bikers. It is deviding us!

Those correlate pretty well to BRONZ's position : which is



No cc split
bikes not a separate class, all private motor vehciles in together
Abolition of full funding (because if bikes have to full fund, it's arithmetically impossible for our levies to come down)
And a fairer way of charging the levy


technically, that would be compatible with privatisation of ACC delivery. Whether an insurance company would want to buy into it on those terms might be another matter.

[Conquiztador]

I know exactly what you are saying, but still playing Devil's Advocate...if (and that's a big if, cos none of us are in the Prick's inner circle) the level of rise is what he'd planned in the first place - then what did we win?

I would say (coming from a business background) that there was the "If nobody makes a noise we go for the top $$'s" scenario. Then there was a few others, and then at the bottom of what they could live with was the "If there is a big protest, we will have to setlle for $XXX, but taking all in to account, if we have to do that we can work with it". I recon that is what we achieved.

[Ixion]

I know exactly what you are saying, but still playing Devil's Advocate...if (and that's a big if, cos none of us are in the Prick's inner circle) the level of rise is what he'd planned in the first place - then what did we win?

Well, let's look at the numbers . For simplicity I'll focus on the 601cc+ rate, but the others follow the same logic

Mr Judge wanted $500 extra (roughly) for bikes, $130 extra for cars.
No no said the Nicksta , I'll see car drivers right. But not bikers, they should be paying $3500. His "see the car drivers right" was based on the extension of full funding to 2019. That made a difference of about $100 to the levies. So the cars were to get that reduction , but we weren't. Because he/they claimed that we should "really" be paying $3500 - so the $100 would be taken by ACC to reduce the shortfall a bit.

So, the Nicksta scheme was , cars pay an extra $30, bikes pay an extra $500.

Then the BIKEOI! rattled his cage. And he rethought a bit.

And so, we got the $100 off that the cars did, which we weren't going to. That, on its own, would have reduced the increase to an extra $400.

Then he took off another $200, just for bikes only, because of them being bolshie bastards who shout at him. Which reduced the increase to around $200 - total levy of $450 odd.

Now, I suspect that Mr Smith always had giving us the $100 as a fall back position. When/if we bitched, he'd generously reduce our increase by the same $100 as the cars. That would have left us paying an extra $400 (instead of the $200 we ended up with).

I very much doubt that the reduction from a $400 increase to a $200 increase was in the original plan. And that figure isn't based on any calculation (unlike the car increase, which IS a calculation). Ours is just a number out of thin air. I suspect he carefully picked a number that he figured was as high as he could get away with, and low enought to make most of the noise go away. A political decsion not an acturial one.


As Mr MSTRS says, we can never really know for certain . But I'd say that what he plannd in the first place was to reduce Mr Judges demands by $100 , same as cars. So, what we won was the extra $200 reduction above that. Still not enough, though. We should pay the same as cars.

[Conquiztador]

Those correlate pretty well to BRONZ's position : which is



No cc split
bikes not a separate class, all private motor vehciles in together
Abolition of full funding (because if bikes have to full fund, it's arithmetically impossible for our levies to come down)
And a fairer way of charging the levy

technically, that would be compatible with privatisation of ACC delivery. Whether an insurance company would want to buy into it on those terms might be another matter.

So lets pick one that gets our fire burning and then go for it! You try to do all those together and the average biker gets confused.

How bout a "Get rid of Smitty" one. I know it would not make a big difference. But would unite all bikers! And then the more dedicated ones could try and spread the bigger message.;)

[MSTRS]

... we can never really know for certain . But I'd say that what he plannd in the first place was to reduce Mr Judges demands by $100 , same as cars. So, what we won was the extra $200 reduction above that. Still not enough, though. We should pay the same as cars.

What you say has the ring of reality about it. So we did win something. Good. But we didn't 'win' enough. So we will be back again. And again. Until we get what is fair. Or a change of govt hands Goff the chance to back up his words.

[Ixion]

So lets pick one that gets our fire burning and then go for it! You try to do all those together and the average biker gets confused.

How bout a "Get rid of Smitty" one. I know it would not make a big difference. But would unite all bikers! And then the more dedicated ones could try and spread the bigger message

Complex issue, though. And, like it or not, it *is* political. And not just bikers.

Simply, no way on earth do motorcyclists alone have the clout to get anything changed, except maybe our own levy.

So , any of those issues (except maybe no-cc-split) , we need allies. That's actually why we put the no-cc-split one in. If we got the "no separate motorcycle classification", then the no-cc-split becomes irrelevant. But no-cc-split is a "bike only" thing, so we can fight that front without allies.

For the rest, motorcyclists on their own won't make any difference at all . And, sorry, but no way on earth do we have the clout to get a Minister dismissed (unless someone can set up a honey trap with a goat ?)

Hence , we need to work with Labour and the Greens. The latter support no full funding. Labour, might be able to be convinced. Strategically, it would make total sense for Labour to support a non-full-funded model. Since they are committed to no privatisation, full funding has no advantage for them. And it would give them a clear distinction to National. At present, there's really bugger all difference between Labour ACC policies and National's. A matter of details and attitude, not of policy.

And we need to try to win AA support - either by pleading or by threatening, whichever will work. AA can (maybe) support non-full-funding. And if we want bikes lumped in with cars, AA opposition would be fatal.

So, picking one isn't that easy. None of them are an easy win. The *only* one we can win on our own (even with difficulty) is the no-cc-split. But, that just moves the pain around. We need to get rid of it, to prevent big bikes being targeted in the future. But here and now, it doesn't directly help much.

The rest all need support- so it's a matter of figuring where and how we can get it. And that dynamic has changed a bit since Tuesday, I think.

[StoneY]

The rest all need support- so it's a matter of figuring where and how we can get it. And that dynamic has changed a bit since Tuesday, I think.

Damn right it has.

Card carrying Labour member or not I was pissed off at the turnout from our 'big ally'

Greens and Labour really stood up, Phil's speech amd Materia's speech both got the blood moving, both made good sense, both promised to make sure its returned to the public, so thats technically one major breakthrough. Theyre on record now with those promises, but they still need to win an election before that means didly squat

Now...better get the hell out of here before Cherry B comes nad bashes me for not 'resting'

:lol:

[Ixion]

My concern here would be that Labour analysts may say "Well, the ACC thing doesn't seem to be getting traction. Even our own supporters can't be bothered with it, let alone it winning us any votes. Flag it away and concentrate on something else". Greens might too, though less likely they tend to be a bit , "different".

[Conquiztador]

My concern here would be that Labour analysts may say "Well, the ACC thing doesn't seem to be getting traction. Even our own supporters can't be bothered with it, let alone it winning us any votes. Flag it away and concentrate on something else". Greens might too, though less likely they tend to be a bit , "different".

Bikers in general do not want to be part of a political movement. We have an issue (or maybe two) that we do not like re how the country is run. Apart from that we could not give a shit re who is running this place. One issue was the proposed high ACC levies. We went to Welly to tell them that they better sort this or we be back. They did.

Now if you want the full support of bikers again, you need to reinvent that formula. Non-political (and I dont want a lecture in that this is political, as for the patched bikie and even me it was not! It was a simple "too fucking expensive, drop the price!), one issue that ALL bikers can feel strongly about.

The way I see it is to settle for that one issue, then start to drum up the support, and then re do it. Again and again and...

[MSTRS]

Would you have felt differently, if you rode a 125cc bike? In which case, your levy would go down.
Yes, the high proposed levy was what got our attention...but ALL of the proposals were and are unfair - based as they are on lies, misinformation and dubious statistics. Really, we are fighting all of it, not just a single bit.

[Bald Eagle]

The way I see it is to settle for that one issue, then start to drum up the support, and then re do it. Again and again and...
Yep we gotta eat the elephant a spoonful at a time, it's deciding which spoonful.

[BMWST?]

Bikers in general do not want to be part of a political movement. We have an issue (or maybe two) that we do not like re how the country is run. Apart from that we could not give a shit re who is running this place. One issue was the proposed high ACC levies. We went to Welly to tell them that they better sort this or we be back. They did.

Now if you want the full support of bikers again, you need to reinvent that formula. Non-political (and I dont want a lecture in that this is political, as for the patched bikie and even me it was not! It was a simple "too fucking expensive, drop the price!), one issue that ALL bikers can feel strongly about.

The way I see it is to settle for that one issue, then start to drum up the support, and then re do it. Again and again and...

well do you think it is still to expensive?Forget about the other stuff.Would you(and the other bikers) come to Welly (or whatever) again for that? Even though there may be other ACC issues as well?

[StoneY]

I seriously think its time to close this thread and start an ongoing ACC discussion thread
Every time I see it title im disapointed....

When I was a Union rep MY union was willing to walk out, tools down, fight the battle we needed to fight.
Bikers stood up yet again on Tuesday, regardless of the issue(s)
Many good friends in the crowd, and some who.... well...tollerate me (LOL)

I was bitterly disapointed in the tiny numbers for the march but the Unions did do thier best with publicity, I still think it was the wrong approach should have been to the Delegates and got the word out on the floors and encouraged a negotiated stop work to attend (avoiding sickies for Mikes factory)

Been a lot of flaming, toing, froing, swapping opinions, but its just a clutter now so what say someone smarter than me starts a better suited thread for the future of this topic and the site admins just close this one, huh?

Salt and open wounds etc..........

[Bald Eagle]

New thread being started now

New thread here (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/118993-Ongoing-ACC-protest-actions-discussion-thread)