Can anyone tell me why bike shops only open for half a day on Sunday? [Archive] - Page 2

SS90

9th March 2010, 04:31

How about a retired person ?

and what about a change of product mix in order to get that money out of the wallet

Stephen

The thing is Steven, and this may sound a little Jaded, but the concept of "getting a retired guy in to work part time" is harder than it sounds.

More than ten years ago my foreman talked about that very thing.

We all thought it was a great idea.

However.

Trust me. When you have spent the majority of your working life in the Motorcycle industry, the last thing you want to do in your "golden years" is GO BACK into the damed thing and take the same shit FOR LESS MONEY!

Really, because that is what it boils down to.

The NZ motorcycle industry is hard yards, and you need a thick skin to survive, just take this site (and more recently this thread) as an example.

We have a poster, publicly ridiculing another member (a mechanic) for his (unfortunate) mistakes when describing some details of a motorcycle model.

The links are posted a few pages back.

Seriously, does that happen in any other industry?

Plumbers? Posties? Ipod salesman? Barman? Guy who sells you your Movie ticket?

No.

But, this industry is, unfortunately cursed with it, and, thanks to the internet, we have it (daily) rubbed in our faces.

OK, so that's "how it is"

Fine.

If the customer has a "right" to such things, then give the poor bastards a break for a fucking day and a half per week to recover and ride their bike, or, perhaps, find some other respite from work (table tennis maybe).

Trust me, if bike shops had "weekend" staff, you would all complain about "shit weekend staff who don't know shit"

I know of one shop in ChCH who DID open Sunday (closed Monday and Tuesday I think), but after a year or so, reverted back to closed Sunday's, from memory, it wasn't worth it, and it didn't feel like they had a weekend.

I can't really remember why, but I do know he now runs "closed sunday, and 3/4 Saturday"

There is a pattern forming here..........

Sales is what dictates open hours.....whore houses are open 24/7, because they have a variety of clientele, as well as a "no refund policy", bike shops, sadly not quite the same.

Trust me, if a bike shop could justify a 7 day week (rostered staff) open time, they would.

Actually 10 years ago Eric Wood Motorcycles did, but they soon dropped it.

The staff hated it, and, by in large, Sunday was a complete waste of time.....Oh god, imagine that, a beautiful Sunday afternoon, and you had to work..... standing around talking to customers just before they say "oh cool, well, have a nice day, I'm off for a ride"

I am certain that anyone who want's a bike shop to be open on a Sunday has never worked in the industry. Or ever will.......

Robert Taylor

9th March 2010, 21:20

You make a valid point, however, one concept you are overlooking is the idea of "skilled" staff.

I am unsure of the NZ minimum wage now....$12? I really don't know for certain.

The idea of having 3 students staff your bike shop may well seem appealing, however, it is far from ideal.

It takes years for a staff member in the motorcycling industry to get the skills required to deal with even the most "average" customer, let alone one who (thinks) he "knows it all".

I assure you, if a group of shops tried the "weekend warrior" approach to motorcycle/accessory sales, the next thread that would be started will be something to the tune of " Why do motorcycle shops have numpties in the shop on the weekend"
followed by,

"When I go to a bike shop, I demand to take an hours time with the service manager/ mechanic/parts person to discuss my 1984 VF750 and it's rattly cam chain's, however, walk out, having only purchased a Two Wheels magazine"

Well said, its not like selling ice creams etc.

avgas

9th March 2010, 21:41

Well said, its not like selling ice creams etc.
True - but also isn't rocket science.
I have found the part time staff at stores like motomail etc - actually relatively useful...........and definitely convenient.
Motorcycling is also an industry where a good chunk of the time someone will walk into a shop with clue, or at least some idea of what he wants. And while they may have an opinion, and no smarts.......it doesn't take much for a moron like myself to do this click one (http://www.google.co.nz/search?q=ohlins+for+an+r6&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a) then do this click two (http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trksid=p3907.m38.l1313&_nkw=ohlins&_sacat=See-All-Categories).......and 2 weeks later rock on up to someone who has to clue to fit it. Most likely get the whole process organized on a Sunday.
So there has to be a reason why I should go to the local bike shop.

dipshit

9th March 2010, 21:56

We have a poster, publicly ridiculing another member (a mechanic) for his (unfortunate) mistakes when describing some details of a motorcycle model.

The links are posted a few pages back.

Seriously, does that happen in any other industry?

Plumbers? Posties? Ipod salesman? Barman? Guy who sells you your Movie ticket?

No..

Ever watched Target... or even Fair Go..???

(Actually Target did do one show on getting a motorbike serviced at different bike shops once. Anybody remember what results they got..??)

Anyways... you think the industry can be riddled with useless mechanics and we should all just be thankful and not complain about poor substandard service...???

Yeah, I bet that's what you would like.

:finger:

Big Dave

9th March 2010, 21:56

>>No offence Dave. But your wrong.
There are plenty of people out there who want to work sundays. They are called students.
If I were a student and a bike shop needed employees for the weekend - I imagine there would be quite a queue.
1000's of business use (and abuse) this abundant resource, even some bike shops.v<<

Nah - No offense taken. Discussion. Buuuut, I'm not wrong.
Have already stated the case and qualifiers earlier.

No doubt when it becomes financially viable/beneficial to a business/the industry - it will happen, the best indicator to me that is currently isn't 'worth it' - is that it currently isn't happening.

PS. Who supervises the Students and Old Geezers?

Brian d marge

9th March 2010, 21:57

Hire me
been in the game for ( reaches for calculator ) 25 or more years and when I retire with money from my pension , I want to keep busy , and love dealing with and providing a service to , my friends eeer customers

sounds a bit corny , but its why I got into this busness in the first place ( the dumb part was I didnt see the writing on the wall )

Stephen

Remember our perceptions are based on the inputs that surround and influenced us, and may very well be different in other countries and places , just because one culture doesn't like sat/ sun , this concept may be only applicable the that culture ,,,

blackdog

9th March 2010, 21:59

the best indicator to me that is currently isn't 'worth it' - is that it currently isn't happening.

q.e.d...............

Big Dave

9th March 2010, 22:16

I prefer OMD....ooops - wrong thread.

dipshit

9th March 2010, 22:16

because god created sundays for EVERYONE to go RIDE their bikes. this includes the owners and workers of bike shops.

I'm on rostered shiftwork and absolutely love it! Plus 6 days off in a row every 3 weeks. Bliss!
I prefer hitting the roads midweek when every other sucker is back at work doing their Monday to Friday 9 to 5.
You lot can keep your few public holiday weekends every year when you all hit the road again at the same time. :rofl:

blackdog

9th March 2010, 23:07

I'm on rostered shiftwork and absolutely love it! Plus 6 days off in a row every 3 weeks. Bliss!
I prefer hitting the roads midweek when every other sucker is back at work doing their Monday to Friday 9 to 5.
You lot can keep your few public holiday weekends every year when you all hit the road again at the same time. :rofl:

:lol: give every bike shop worker 6 days off every 3 weeks, they'll take it too!

skite...............

dipshit

10th March 2010, 09:14

give every bike shop worker 6 days off every 3 weeks, they'll take it too!

I can tell you that setting off on a 3 day 2 night ride anywhere around the south island and exploring new places and roads beats a Sunday over the usual local roads!

(and that is on much more traffic free roads compared to the weekends when all the Sunday drivers are out)

You guys don't know what you are missing!

God can keep his Sunday.

blackdog

10th March 2010, 09:23

I can tell you that setting off on a 3 day 2 night ride anywhere around the south island and exploring new places and roads beats a Sunday over the usual local roads!

(and that is on much more traffic free roads compared to the weekends when all the Sunday drivers are out)

You guys don't know what you are missing!

God can keep his Sunday.

can't speak for god, but on behalf of myself and everyone else............we hate you

blackdog

10th March 2010, 09:24

I prefer OMD....ooops - wrong thread.

lmao :rofl:

dipshit

10th March 2010, 09:31

can't speak for god, but on behalf of myself and everyone else............we hate you

I know... :msn-wink:

Jesus people, just try thinking outside the square every now and then. :brick:

IdunBrokdItAgin

10th March 2010, 10:36

im sure this has already bin said on this thread but i aint gonna read it to find out. how it has managed to go on this long is beyond my ken.

because god created sundays for EVERYONE to go RIDE their bikes. this includes the owners and workers of bike shops.

if you cant sort ya shit for ya sunday ride on the other 6 days of the week then stiff shit i say. if its the case of an 'emergency' situation, my experience is you'll find they'll probably bend over backwards to help a good customer if they can anyway

it's nothing at all like flogging ipods at dick smiths, these guys are all motorcyclists just like us

so feel free to work yourself on a sunday if ya like, we'll all be out riding our bikes like everyone else who has a life:)

Fair enough that you admitted that you didn't read past the OP. But, if you can't be arsed to read through the thread then why reply to the OP?

Sorry if I am coming over as rude but it is my pet peeve on kiwibiker when people don't read through a thread but still post on their opinion of the OP.

If you had read through it you would have seen that the thread developed more of a slant around later week night closing and afternoons on a saturday. Everyone gave up on Sundays because "god invented them for riding" even on a cold wet winter sunday, apparantly.

Crasherfromwayback

10th March 2010, 10:40

If you had read through it you would have seen that the thread developed more of a slant around late week night closing and afternoons on a saturday. Everyone gave up on Sundays because "god invented them for riding" even on a cold wet winter sunday, apparrantly.

And you think shops should at the last minute open if it's raining?

IdunBrokdItAgin

10th March 2010, 10:55

And you think shops should at the last minute open if it's raining?

Nah, that was just a tongue in cheek reply to the argument that bike staff are out all day sunday riding (all year round).

I can accept bike shops being closed on a sunday, as long as there are other time oppurtunities for punters to access the shop (late nights or saturday arvos), outside of normal office hours. Yup, I said office - I am one of those paper pushing bastards, along with a very significant proportion of other bikers.

That said, I was out at the weekend - on a saturday morning believe it or not (no hangover for a change) - and went round the shops in the Hutt. Hadn't been to them in a long time.
Noticed that both were extremely busy on saturday morning and that Red Baron had brought in some new staff (I assume to cover the weekends) - who were very helpfull, even if they don't have as much experience as someone who as worked in the industry for x years.

Take from that what you will.

However, I do think that this thread has turned into a bit of a bike shop bashing one. That was not the intention of the OP at all.

Crasherfromwayback

10th March 2010, 11:36

However, I do think that this thread has turned into a bit of a bike shop bashing one. That was not the intention of the OP at all.

In my 23 years in the industry...I've learnt that no matter what you do, you'll never please all of the people all of the time. But we do try.

dipshit

10th March 2010, 11:49

However, I do think that this thread has turned into a bit of a bike shop bashing one.

Some people that work in the industry like SS90 here treat most of his customers like they are stupid and look down their noses at us. They are so up themselves they think they are indispensable and everything that comes out of a bike workshop in NZ has been done to perfection.

That's not how a lot of the motorcycle community see the bike shops as though. Many will turn to alternatives like Supercheap for oil on a Saturday afternoon or get stuff over the internet instead if a bike shop can't be assed to be open.

Many in the industry need to get over themselves and realise they are just another retail/service business that needs to compete for customer patronage and aren't something special.

SS90

10th March 2010, 12:33

Some people that work in the industry like SS90 here treat most of his customers like they are stupid and look down their noses at us. They are so up themselves they think they are indispensable and everything that comes out of a bike workshop in NZ has been done to perfection.

That's not how a lot of the motorcycle community see the bike shops as though. Many will turn to alternatives like Supercheap for oil on a Saturday afternoon or get stuff over the internet instead if a bike shop can't be assed to be open.

Many in the industry need to get over themselves and realise they are just another retail/service business that needs to compete for customer patronage and aren't something special.

Ok, I will reply to this.
Actually, I worked 12 years in NZ, and the last 3 in Europe, developing two stroke cylinders, ignitions heads and exhausts.

Don't take my frank points of view as arrogant, because they aren't meant that way, they are, as a said, simply a frank point of view based on real world experience.

I have seen many a starry eyed pimply snot nosed kid (myself included) quickly accustom to the realities of how hard it is in the NZ motorcycle industry, and the realities are simple.

Much lower pay than your mates you went to tech with, longer hours, and less job satisfaction.

It truly is only "the love of it" that keeps you going.

An old employer of mine told me that "If I had spent as much time and energy on property development as I has on bike shops, I would be a very rich man"

I will never forget that, simply because it is true.

So many customers have the mistaken belief that a bike shop is simply a license to print money.

I still have friends that own bike shops in NZ, and when I visited 2 months ago, I was not surprised to see how they both where working 7 days (no shit).

The shops weren't open to the public on the Sunday, but the owners of these bike shops where out the back, sorting shit out for the next week, doing unchargeable work etc.

I spent time with both these guys on the weekends, helping out with an experienced pair of hands, and can assure you my help was well appreciated.

It's the thiings like this you don't see, or hear about that many shops do, and why I take issue with the "open 7 days" crys.

Some people have made some valid points in relation to the call that "bike shops need to keep pace with new business trends"....yes, I agree, they do, but let us not forget that we have less motorcyclists in NZ than a SINGLE STATE IN AUSSIE, and, by in large, the relaities of it all is that the NZ motorcycle market is actually over catered to.

I see small (by international standards) towns in NZ being stuffed full of well known brands, and I feel there are already too many bike shops (3 Suzuki dealers in Christchurch?????????)....I see that as damaging the brand value!

Avgas gave a very good example of how quickly he can find some suspension parts he want's.

Great!

Then, he points out it would be prudent to take it all to a specialist to have it fitted.

Good man.

The necessary skills to do that job effectively take an inordenant amount of time to aquire, and, that skill set deserves (and want's) sufficient remuneration.

This remuneration package needs to be offset by the profit made in selling the part.

Other wise, if everyone got their (well known brand name) shock of the net, the "skilled person" would be forced to double his labour rate to be able to pay his staff.

This is just another example of how hard the NZ bike market is.

Don't judge it, till you have lived it.

Think of it as wanting to fuck a porn star.

great in your mind, but when you get to do it, it's not quite like you expected.

SS90

10th March 2010, 12:43

True - but also isn't rocket science.
I have found the part time staff at stores like motomail etc - actually relatively useful...........and definitely convenient.
Motorcycling is also an industry where a good chunk of the time someone will walk into a shop with clue, or at least some idea of what he wants. And while they may have an opinion, and no smarts.......it doesn't take much for a moron like myself to do this click one (http://www.google.co.nz/search?q=ohlins+for+an+r6&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a) then do this click two (http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trksid=p3907.m38.l1313&_nkw=ohlins&_sacat=See-All-Categories).......and 2 weeks later rock on up to someone who has to clue to fit it. Most likely get the whole process organized on a Sunday.
So there has to be a reason why I should go to the local bike shop.

You present both sides of the coin here..... I would like NZ bikes hops to come in line with customer demands, but I would also like the customer "conditioned" as to what a reasonable demand actually is......friendly knowledgable staff are expensive, and they need a rest every 5 days or so........ I have never been to a car sales yard on a Sunday, but I can't imagine any of the staff would know half of what a bike shop staff member has to know.

Brian d marge

10th March 2010, 13:12

Ok, I will reply to this.
Actually, I worked 12 years in NZ, and the last 3 in Europe, developing two stroke cylinders, ignitions heads and exhausts.

Don't take my frank points of view as arrogant, because they aren't meant that way, they are, as a said, simply a frank point of view based on real world experience.

I have seen many a starry eyed pimply snot nosed kid (myself included) quickly accustom to the realities of how hard it is in the NZ motorcycle industry, and the realities are simple.

Much lower pay than your mates you went to tech with, longer hours, and less job satisfaction.

It truly is only "the love of it" that keeps you going.

An old employer of mine told me that "If I had spent as much time and energy on property development as I has on bike shops, I would be a very rich man"

I will never forget that, simply because it is true.

So many customers have the mistaken belief that a bike shop is simply a license to print money.

I still have friends that own bike shops in NZ, and when I visited 2 months ago, I was not surprised to see how they both where working 7 days (no shit).

The shops weren't open to the public on the Sunday, but the owners of these bike shops where out the back, sorting shit out for the next week, doing unchargeable work etc.

I spent time with both these guys on the weekends, helping out with an experienced pair of hands, and can assure you my help was well appreciated.

It's the thiings like this you don't see, or hear about that many shops do, and why I take issue with the "open 7 days" crys.

Some people have made some valid points in relation to the call that "bike shops need to keep pace with new business trends"....yes, I agree, they do, but let us not forget that we have less motorcyclists in NZ than a SINGLE STATE IN AUSSIE, and, by in large, the relaities of it all is that the NZ motorcycle market is actually over catered to.

I see small (by international standards) towns in NZ being stuffed full of well known brands, and I feel there are already too many bike shops (3 Suzuki dealers in Christchurch?????????)....I see that as damaging the brand value!

Avgas gave a very good example of how quickly he can find some suspension parts he want's.

Great!

Then, he points out it would be prudent to take it all to a specialist to have it fitted.

Good man.

The necessary skills to do that job effectively take an inordenant amount of time to aquire, and, that skill set deserves (and want's) sufficient remuneration.

This remuneration package needs to be offset by the profit made in selling the part.

Other wise, if everyone got their (well known brand name) shock of the net, the "skilled person" would be forced to double his labour rate to be able to pay his staff.

This is just another example of how hard the NZ bike market is.

Don't judge it, till you have lived it.

Think of it as wanting to fuck a porn star.

great in your mind, but when you get to do it, it's not quite like you expected.

The problem is as I ( I think banged on before about )

The motorcycle is a comodity , reliable for many thousands of KM and also is a recreational vehicle

So while niche markets will have trade , MX , Vintage, tuning the volumes for such an over stocked market is/will be low

especially when the credit crunch bites

So you have to develop the market accordingly . Here I am thinking about service , as in what do I do with my bike when I have time off , Clean it , adjust things and go riding

but where do I go riding , I want (just me here ) to go to a place where on the way there are lots of corners ( or adventure riding) and to get to a place where I can talk with others who have done the same ,

maybe have a beer or to ( cant drink and drive ) then watch a bit of moto gp on a big screen in a comfy chair

thats my idea of a good time ( oo eeer ) I have big jackets that I don't want to carry around , helmets too.. a very expensive motorcycle that I would like watched ( and taken home if I drink too much ,fall off or even cant be arsed riding

Now all I am doing here is sitting here with a cup of coffee just thinking what I would like ,,, You can see it has not a lot to do with the traditional bike shop and a hell of alot to do with looking after peoples needs ... If you could get my wife enthusiastic ,,,dot dot dot .... the business would make money ,,,

I really do think that a lot of the old business models in the the last ten or twenty years have seen better days , the Bike shop is one of them

Stephen

My over valued 2 cents worth

dipshit

10th March 2010, 13:23

Ok, I will reply to this.
Actually, I worked 12 years in NZ, and the last 3 in Europe, developing two stroke cylinders, ignitions heads and exhausts...

I have appreciated your frank point of view. I really have.

Someone working 7 days a week is just stupid and shows there is something fundamentally wrong with the industry.

Why hasn't the motorcycle industry changed much since 1985 when I first got into bikes? Was away from motorcycles for about 15 years - in which time the world had changed quite a bit. Except for motorcycle shops.

Why are there riders in NZ that wouldn't trust some motorcycle workshops to change their spark plugs? ( http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/101766-One-problem-with-buying-new-bikes...?p=1129267955#post1129267955 ) If you can't just drop your bike off at a workshop for a change of plugs without it being a crapshoot that it will be done properly is a very sad reflection of the industry.

If you are indeed good at your job and passionate about what you do... then you should be as equally eager to see the useless mechanics that are in the industry to disappear as well. Better off the good trustworthy mechanics getting the work than the useless ones cutting in on a limited number of clients.

And why can't we see bigger shops that perhaps sell every brand of new bike under one roof instead of half a dozen small shops in a town...??? Imaging the fun a customer would have browsing comparable bikes side-by-side at the same time. Imagine such a shop being able to hand pick the best staff in town. Imagine such a shop being able to open longer hours like other retail sectors. And imagine such a shop being able to run an effective online store as well.

But no, let's keep just doing what we were doing in 1985 and complain while the rest of the world passes us by... :oi-grr:

dipshit

10th March 2010, 13:41

So you have to develop the market accordingly . Here I am thinking about service , as in what do I do with my bike when I have time off , Clean it , adjust things and go riding

Actually I would really like to see the kind of workshops where you can do some of your own spanner work then let a mechanic take over.

Like with my GSXR... There is lots of fiddly time-consuming work taking all the bodywork off to get at the engine. I am more than happy doing that kind of work but still wouldn't be confident enough to tackle a job like removing the cams to adjust valve clearances. Or Auckland has a mobile mechanic that has earned a very good reputation by the sound of it. That would be brilliant if it was available to me, as I could have my bike stripped down and tank removed so a experienced mechanic could come to my place and do the valve clearances. Even if paying top dollar for his work, it would still workout far more beneficial than dropping my bike off at a regular workshop and paying them lots of money to do shit I could be doing myself.

This must be the case for many owners of modern complex bikes these days. This isn't 1985 anymore.

There are some workshops around the world where you pay to come in and work on your bike yourself and also have competent mechanics on hand if needed.

avgas

10th March 2010, 14:56

dipshit, I like your idea.
But would hate for some scumbag to come in with bike and pocket half the bits from the snaplock socket set while doing the work.

avgas

10th March 2010, 15:06

SS90 Fucking a porn star must be awesome. This is a no brainer as fucking is good, so fucking something good = good + good = AWESOME.
case closed haha.
I do hear what you say, and I agree - I guess I am just bitter as this is rolling into week 5 in a row that I am on-call. Infact as I look up at the calendar, I have worked half the weekends this year thus far.
However I do think it could work here. I actually wouldn't expect skilled staff on a weekend, but perhaps I am not the average customer.
In fact I think I am too nice to be a customer.
You guys must deal with some real asreholes - if KB is any gauge as to the average motorcycle customer.

dipshit

10th March 2010, 15:28

dipshit, I like your idea.
But would hate for some scumbag to come in with bike and pocket half the bits from the snaplock socket set while doing the work.

hmmm... that could be a problem in NZ.

Good security cameras and a metal detector at the door...???

Crasherfromwayback

10th March 2010, 16:07

Actually I would really like to see the kind of workshops where you can do some of your own spanner work then let a mechanic take over.

dipshit, I like your idea.
But would hate for some scumbag to come in with bike and pocket half the bits from the snaplock socket set while doing the work.

No way in hell that'll ever work. Customer..."you rounded off my sump bolt!!!". "You lost my fairing screws...!!!" "You cracked my fairing!!!". Tools being lost,broken, stolen. No way.

Big Dave

10th March 2010, 17:05

What we need is a bike shop that lends out Porn Stars.
Then they could bring them back in on Sundays and change the plastics.

Robert Taylor

10th March 2010, 19:11

No way in hell that'll ever work. Customer..."you rounded off my sump bolt!!!". "You lost my fairing screws...!!!" "You cracked my fairing!!!". Tools being lost,broken, stolen. No way.

$90 per hour if I do it unmolested,

$130 per hour if you watch and keep asking questions requiring that I continually stop

$180 per hour if you help

Maybe thats all a bit harsh but for the most part good mechanics ( and there are some good mechanics ) like to get on doing it without often overbearing ''customer surveillance'' That is no different to many industries.

We had a customer today who removed his fairings etc so we could remove and upgrade his suspension, that was fine as he wasnt an idiot and wasnt in our face. So we could get on with the job and do it in a respectable time.

But what irks me most are timewasters.

Robert Taylor

10th March 2010, 19:18

True - but also isn't rocket science.
I have found the part time staff at stores like motomail etc - actually relatively useful...........and definitely convenient.
Motorcycling is also an industry where a good chunk of the time someone will walk into a shop with clue, or at least some idea of what he wants. And while they may have an opinion, and no smarts.......it doesn't take much for a moron like myself to do this click one (http://www.google.co.nz/search?q=ohlins+for+an+r6&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a) then do this click two (http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trksid=p3907.m38.l1313&_nkw=ohlins&_sacat=See-All-Categories).......and 2 weeks later rock on up to someone who has to clue to fit it. Most likely get the whole process organized on a Sunday.
So there has to be a reason why I should go to the local bike shop.

For buying straightforward stuff, yes. For specialised knowledge and experience, good luck

Robert Taylor

10th March 2010, 19:22

I have appreciated your frank point of view. I really have.

Someone working 7 days a week is just stupid and shows there is something fundamentally wrong with the industry.

Why hasn't the motorcycle industry changed much since 1985 when I first got into bikes? Was away from motorcycles for about 15 years - in which time the world had changed quite a bit. Except for motorcycle shops.

Why are there riders in NZ that wouldn't trust some motorcycle workshops to change their spark plugs? ( http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/101766-One-problem-with-buying-new-bikes...?p=1129267955#post1129267955 ) If you can't just drop your bike off at a workshop for a change of plugs without it being a crapshoot that it will be done properly is a very sad reflection of the industry.

If you are indeed good at your job and passionate about what you do... then you should be as equally eager to see the useless mechanics that are in the industry to disappear as well. Better off the good trustworthy mechanics getting the work than the useless ones cutting in on a limited number of clients.

And why can't we see bigger shops that perhaps sell every brand of new bike under one roof instead of half a dozen small shops in a town...??? Imaging the fun a customer would have browsing comparable bikes side-by-side at the same time. Imagine such a shop being able to hand pick the best staff in town. Imagine such a shop being able to open longer hours like other retail sectors. And imagine such a shop being able to run an effective online store as well.

But no, let's keep just doing what we were doing in 1985 and complain while the rest of the world passes us by... :oi-grr:

One of the fundamentally wrong things with the industry is that there are far far too few highly experienced and qualified people in it, and poor returns offering a disincentive to do so. The more we embrace redshed mentality the worse this is going to get.
BTW Im working at least 6 and a half days per week and Im certainly not wealthy out of it. As SS90 related if Id put my energy into something that actually had good returns then I might just be very wealthy.

SS90

10th March 2010, 21:28

Actually I would really like to see the kind of workshops where you can do some of your own spanner work then let a mechanic take over.

.

OK, this is what I would call "an unreasonable expectation"

You are basically asking for a Mechanic (although "technition" seems to be term used more and more) to teach you.

You would like to be able to do the work yourself, as many people do, and you want a skilled person to actually show you how to do it, so that you may then do it yourself, doing this person (and others ) out of a livleyhood.

That, I consider an "unreasonable expectation"

Period.

Believe it or not, things like Youtube actually make money for us.

Because "JO expert", simply gets it into his head that he now knows it all, and makes a wee video "explaining" how do do something on his bike, and Millions of people think that must be correct (after all, no-one would make a video if they where wrong, now would they.........)

Case in point was last night someone posted a link to a youtube video "explaining" how to adjust a chain........pathetic really. 7 minutes of my life I won't get back, and wrong too.

People who work in the industry have personal lives, just like you, and, they need to protect their livleyhood (feed their families), just like if you taught everyone how to strip mine in their own home "mining operation", there would be no more work at Macrays flat in "Palmerstown", as we would all collect our own gold.

Ixion

10th March 2010, 23:00

One of the fundamentally wrong things with the industry is that there are far far too few highly experienced and qualified people in it, and poor returns offering a disincentive to do so. The more we embrace redshed mentality the worse this is going to get.
BTW Im working at least 6 and a half days per week and Im certainly not wealthy out of it. As SS90 related if Id put my energy into something that actually had good returns then I might just be very wealthy.

Well the industry can't have it's cake and eat it too. All the industry input here says " we are not interested in maximizing the business, it's a life style thing." such being the case you can't expect to make a great deal that's the nature of lifestyle operations.

The days when any business could say " I'm the only shop on town you have no choice" are long gone.

In almost everything now people look for one of two things - price or convenience ( both would be nice but this is an imperfect world). But bike shops offer neither . Seldom is any New Zealand shop going to be able to compete with the Internet for price. that would be OK if they were more convenient ( which is another way of saying offered better service) . In many things I happily pay a premium for convenience. But the bike shops offer neither, because making the transaction easy for me gets in the way of their lifestyle. Fair enough that's there choice and they're not the only ones to go down that road.

But then don't whinge that you're not getting rich doing it.

Crasherfromwayback

11th March 2010, 08:01

But then don't whinge that you're not getting rich doing it.

I don't think anyone here myself included has whinged we're not getting rich. Just that we need a life too. All of the 'Anti bike shop brigade', may one day be lying on the side of the road and need help from said bikes shops. Those shops may be too busy helping the customers that use their services to come and get you. Then you'll be doing the whinging.

SS90

11th March 2010, 08:05

Well the industry can't have it's cake and eat it too. All the industry input here says " we are not interested in maximizing the business, it's a life style thing." such being the case you can't expect to make a great deal that's the nature of lifestyle operations.

The days when any business could say " I'm the only shop on town you have no choice" are long gone.

In almost everything now people look for one of two things - price or convenience ( both would be nice but this is an imperfect world). But bike shops offer neither . Seldom is any New Zealand shop going to be able to compete with the Internet for price. that would be OK if they were more convenient ( which is another way of saying offered better service) . In many things I happily pay a premium for convenience. But the bike shops offer neither, because making the transaction easy for me gets in the way of their lifestyle. Fair enough that's there choice and they're not the only ones to go down that road.

But then don't whinge that you're not getting rich doing it.

I don't agree that any-one on this thread as given the impression "like it or lump it", the context of this thread has, and continues to be why bike shops in NZ aren't 7 day a week operations.

The simple facts are, they operate on too smaller profits to enable this to happen.

The reason that the profits are too small, is simply because the turnover is low (due to NZ's small population)

simple.

There is only a small market from which to "take your share", so, if a bike shop want's to increase it's profits, it either has to cut the other dealers throats with pricing (dutch auctions then begin.....and NO the customer does not win in the end), and simply "pick" customers from other shops, or, simply increase their margins, and the two ways of doing that are 1) bulk purchase accessories etc from overseas (and in so doing piss of the NZ wholesaler.....not wise at all)....this also takes a large capital input, and this is never easy, or 2) simply raise the prices.

The two options are used all the time by shops, both large and small, and now with free trade agreements, (let's ignore bike sales at this point, and concentrate on accessories, as it does seem that is what people want bike shops to be open for on the weekends), It seems now that every man and his dog is importing gloves, helmets,jackets (riding gear et all), setting up a web shop (may or may not include trademe), and "having a go"

The interesting thing is, they are all new to the whole concept, and, for the time being anyway, are horny on the idea of carting their wares around the race meets etc, "getting their name out there".

That is admirable.

My experience tells me, that come a few seasons (the market is seasonal remember), these guys are just a little less keen to give up their free time as they initially where.

To JUSTIFY the capital outlay needed to purchase new stock, and hold it, you need to be seeing a reasonable return on the money you outlayed, and all of a sudden, the prices will slowly start to fall in line with the established bike shops, no longer will the new guys be satisfied with the small margins they get for their work/investment, and, therefore the price will go up, even more so if the are somewhat successful, and, have to rent bigger warehousing (assuming it is a Email order sort of deal)

As the overheads go up, so do the margins needed just to keep the lights on.

I have seen some pretty good examples posted on here of how you can source the same brand named suspension unit via the web at a saving.

Hey, here's an idea, why doesn't someone simply start up a parallel import business for such items..... you can find them cheap on the net (shown on this thread)!

Let's lay it all out.

Hmmmmm.

What should this person stock?

OK.

Let's start with 600's, starting at 2001

R6,ZXR6,CBR6,GSXR6

Now 1000's
R1,ZX........oh, shit, hang on...... fuck, to be a viable business, I am going to have to outlay 100's of 1000's of dollars just to stock the friggin parts, and I have to rent a workshop (oh, with big storage for my stock), speaking of which, what about fork springs, and oil, and a shock dyno, and a van, and some staff) (you will need more than a PC and dial up now my boy)

You see where I am coming from?

It is so easy to be a keyboard warrior and pick holes in the industry (and it's short comings), when you have no idea of what it entails just to get started, let alone turn a profit (even a small one)

SS90

11th March 2010, 08:05

Well the industry can't have it's cake and eat it too. All the industry input here says " we are not interested in maximizing the business, it's a life style thing." such being the case you can't expect to make a great deal that's the nature of lifestyle operations.

The days when any business could say " I'm the only shop on town you have no choice" are long gone.

In almost everything now people look for one of two things - price or convenience ( both would be nice but this is an imperfect world). But bike shops offer neither . Seldom is any New Zealand shop going to be able to compete with the Internet for price. that would be OK if they were more convenient ( which is another way of saying offered better service) . In many things I happily pay a premium for convenience. But the bike shops offer neither, because making the transaction easy for me gets in the way of their lifestyle. Fair enough that's there choice and they're not the only ones to go down that road.

But then don't whinge that you're not getting rich doing it.

I don't agree that any-one on this thread as given the impression "like it or lump it", the context of this thread has, and continues to be why bike shops in NZ aren't 7 day a week operations.

The simple facts are, they operate on too smaller profits to enable this to happen.

The reason that the profits are too small, is simply because the turnover is low (due to NZ's small population)

simple.

There is only a small market from which to "take your share", so, if a bike shop want's to increase it's profits, it either has to cut the other dealers throats with pricing (dutch auctions then begin.....and NO the customer does not win in the end), and simply "pick" customers from other shops, or, simply increase their margins, and the two ways of doing that are 1) bulk purchase accessories etc from overseas (and in so doing piss of the NZ wholesaler.....not wise at all)....this also takes a large capital input, and this is never easy, or 2) simply raise the prices.

The two options are used all the time by shops, both large and small, and now with free trade agreements, (let's ignore bike sales at this point, and concentrate on accessories, as it does seem that is what people want bike shops to be open for on the weekends), It seems now that every man and his dog is importing gloves, helmets,jackets (riding gear et all), setting up a web shop (may or may not include trademe), and "having a go"

The interesting thing is, they are all new to the whole concept, and, for the time being anyway, are horny on the idea of carting their wares around the race meets etc, "getting their name out there".

That is admirable.

My experience tells me, that come a few seasons (the market is seasonal remember), these guys are just a little less keen to give up their free time as they initially where.

To JUSTIFY the capital outlay needed to purchase new stock, and hold it, you need to be seeing a reasonable return on the money you outlayed, and all of a sudden, the prices will slowly start to fall in line with the established bike shops, no longer will the new guys be satisfied with the small margins they get for their work/investment, and, therefore the price will go up, even more so if the are somewhat successful, and, have to rent bigger warehousing (assuming it is a Email order sort of deal)

As the overheads go up, so do the margins needed just to keep the lights on.

I have seen some pretty good examples posted on here of how you can source the same brand named suspension unit via the web at a saving.

Hey, here's an idea, why doesn't someone simply start up a parallel import business for such items..... you can find them cheap on the net (shown on this thread)!

Let's lay it all out.

Hmmmmm.

What should this person stock?

OK.

Let's start with 600's, starting at 2001

R6,ZXR6,CBR6,GSXR6

Now 1000's
R1,ZX........oh, shit, hang on...... fuck, to be a viable business, I am going to have to outlay 100's of 1000's of dollars just to stock the friggin parts, and I have to rent a workshop (oh, with big storage for my stock), speaking of which, what about fork springs, and oil, and a shock dyno, and a van, and some staff) (you will need more than a PC and dial up now my boy)

You see where I am coming from?

To pay for all this, you are going to have to put what we call "a margin" on the stuff you brought (because you aren't just going to give them away at cost are you?) hang on, you also now have to pay DUTY (because you are now a business) on all these units you got.

It is so easy to be a keyboard warrior and pick holes in the industry (and it's short comings), when you have no idea of what it entails just to get started, let alone turn a profit (even a small one)

DMNTD

11th March 2010, 10:51

Too much logic I'm afraid for it to be correct sir

Ixion

11th March 2010, 12:25

I don't agree that any-one on this thread as given the impression "like it or lump it", the context of this thread has, and continues to be why bike shops in NZ aren't 7 day a week operations.

No ? How about (just as a sample)

Ok you honestly don't think Bike Shop owners haven't thought of it have you? Have a think about it? If it was the solution and workable it would have been in practice by now. Also try and take a step further in your thinking/analysing/reasoning and what you'll see is one of the reasons why most Bike Shop owners open their shops during normal business hours are because of work life balance and to match their Kiwi lifestyles.

After 15 years in the industry, I have to say "screw you all who think we should be open on weekends at all"
Enthusiast? maybe......slave? hell fuck no!
You want to come in to the bike shop and talk about bikes and drink coffee, ok, cool.
when do we get such an opportunity?
People who work in bike shops need their free time too, and sure, I appreciate it is an enthusiasts market, and provisions must be made.
But please never forget that the people who work there are (by in large) enthusiasts too, and as such, we require " a weekend" as well.
Like I say 15 years in the industry, and I had to move to Europe to FINALLY get weekends off.

You don't enter into business with one mind set of making large amounts of profit. Businesses who operate primarily with profits in mind fail quickly and long term sustainable and successful businesses have widely been linked to other factors like having passion to service certain industries as opposed to profit margins. There are 100's of cases out there.
A lot of people enter into business not only to make profit but to suit and fit their lifestyles.

The simple facts are, they operate on too smaller profits to enable this to happen.

The reason that the profits are too small, is simply because the turnover is low (due to NZ's small population)

simple.

There is only a small market from which to "take your share", so, if a bike shop want's to increase it's profits, it either has to cut the other dealers throats with pricing (dutch also now have to pay DUTY (because you are now a business) on all these units you got.

It is so easy to be a keyboard warrior and pick holes in the industry (and it's short comings), when you have no idea of what it entails just to get started, let alone turn a profit (even a small one) Third option . being the only shop interested in taking my money

You just don't get it, do you

I want to give business to local shops. I realise that NZ prices are usually going to be more expensive. We're a small country at the end of the world. I can accept paying a (reasonable) premium. There are unquantifiable advantages to buying locally

But - If you want my money, you have to be there to take it. I work , nominally , 9 to 6. Monday to Friday. I'm not the only one. Hundreds of thousands of people do. During those hours, I cannot go touring round bike shops. That leaves three hours on Saturday morning. Two hours really, otherwise I'll be one of those evil people waiting when the shop opens, or arriving half an hour before it closes. Could you possibly think of any way to make it MORE difficult for me to give you my business?

Almost everything I buy, who I buy it from is based (in order of importance) , on how convenient you make it for me to trade with you. Then quality. Then price. I'm looking for traders who score well on at least one of those, and no big downside on the other two.

So, you not only want to charge more (I can accept that), but also want me to jump through hoops to fit your "lifestyle". One hit, I can accept, Two tells me that you are not interested in my money. Others are.

OK, you don't care. You're in business not only to make profit but to suit and fit your lifestyle. Fair enough. But stop whining when you DON'T make a profit.

Brian d marge

11th March 2010, 14:08

My BSA bantam , serviced every weekend ( hey it was reliable ! )

My triumph 750 needed TLC almost as often sometimes an engine part was needed ,,,

My Enfield ,,,, ( I love spending money on my baby ) but the parts are cheap

point being I was ALWAYS in the bike shop , after work weekends , lunchtimes if I could sneak away but,,,,

My CBR 600 , oil water tires once a year or maybe twice a year ( assuming 12 000 miles a year )

once that started to happen the business model needed to change

A few years ago , 2 I think , mate was sending quite a few Harley's to NZ ( I assume for the weekend warrior had a bike when I was young brigade ,,,, read leisure item)

anyway work becons and Ive done nowt productive today ,,, not good

Stephen

Robert Taylor

11th March 2010, 18:14

I don't agree that any-one on this thread as given the impression "like it or lump it", the context of this thread has, and continues to be why bike shops in NZ aren't 7 day a week operations.

The simple facts are, they operate on too smaller profits to enable this to happen.

The reason that the profits are too small, is simply because the turnover is low (due to NZ's small population)

simple.

There is only a small market from which to "take your share", so, if a bike shop want's to increase it's profits, it either has to cut the other dealers throats with pricing (dutch auctions then begin.....and NO the customer does not win in the end), and simply "pick" customers from other shops, or, simply increase their margins, and the two ways of doing that are 1) bulk purchase accessories etc from overseas (and in so doing piss of the NZ wholesaler.....not wise at all)....this also takes a large capital input, and this is never easy, or 2) simply raise the prices.

The two options are used all the time by shops, both large and small, and now with free trade agreements, (let's ignore bike sales at this point, and concentrate on accessories, as it does seem that is what people want bike shops to be open for on the weekends), It seems now that every man and his dog is importing gloves, helmets,jackets (riding gear et all), setting up a web shop (may or may not include trademe), and "having a go"

The interesting thing is, they are all new to the whole concept, and, for the time being anyway, are horny on the idea of carting their wares around the race meets etc, "getting their name out there".

That is admirable.

My experience tells me, that come a few seasons (the market is seasonal remember), these guys are just a little less keen to give up their free time as they initially where.

To JUSTIFY the capital outlay needed to purchase new stock, and hold it, you need to be seeing a reasonable return on the money you outlayed, and all of a sudden, the prices will slowly start to fall in line with the established bike shops, no longer will the new guys be satisfied with the small margins they get for their work/investment, and, therefore the price will go up, even more so if the are somewhat successful, and, have to rent bigger warehousing (assuming it is a Email order sort of deal)

As the overheads go up, so do the margins needed just to keep the lights on.

I have seen some pretty good examples posted on here of how you can source the same brand named suspension unit via the web at a saving.

Hey, here's an idea, why doesn't someone simply start up a parallel import business for such items..... you can find them cheap on the net (shown on this thread)!

Let's lay it all out.

Hmmmmm.

What should this person stock?

OK.

Let's start with 600's, starting at 2001

R6,ZXR6,CBR6,GSXR6

Now 1000's
R1,ZX........oh, shit, hang on...... fuck, to be a viable business, I am going to have to outlay 100's of 1000's of dollars just to stock the friggin parts, and I have to rent a workshop (oh, with big storage for my stock), speaking of which, what about fork springs, and oil, and a shock dyno, and a van, and some staff) (you will need more than a PC and dial up now my boy)

You see where I am coming from?

To pay for all this, you are going to have to put what we call "a margin" on the stuff you brought (because you aren't just going to give them away at cost are you?) hang on, you also now have to pay DUTY (because you are now a business) on all these units you got.

It is so easy to be a keyboard warrior and pick holes in the industry (and it's short comings), when you have no idea of what it entails just to get started, let alone turn a profit (even a small one)

Well said that man!!!

I can hear where Ixion and others are coming from re opening hours and convenience etc. Maybe its nearly as simple as most NZ workers ( including those in the motorcycle industry ) still like their traditional kiwi weekend off, be it for racing / riding motorcycles, windsurfing etc.
And again I come back to there being a vacuum of skilled experienced staff. Its laughable to suggest part timers such as students and retired people to staff on weekends, notwithstanding that the kiwi work ethic is largely a thing of the past!!!
Joe motorcycle rider may frequent a motorcycle shop on a Sunday afternoon and still expect a ''correct'' and well informed answer that he would get from a highly experienced staffer midweek.
The industry will not prosper as long as it pays abysmal wages, nor can it pay better wages due to internet competition and dutch auction mentality. Inescapable fact....

Ixion

11th March 2010, 20:04

Well said that man!!!

I can hear where Ixion and others are coming from re opening hours and convenience etc. Maybe its nearly as simple as most NZ workers ( including those in the motorcycle industry ) still like their traditional kiwi weekend off, be it for racing / riding motorcycles, windsurfing etc.
And again I come back to there being a vacuum of skilled experienced staff. Its laughable to suggest part timers such as students and retired people to staff on weekends, notwithstanding that the kiwi work ethic is largely a thing of the past!!!
Joe motorcycle rider may frequent a motorcycle shop on a Sunday afternoon and still expect a ''correct'' and well informed answer that he would get from a highly experienced staffer midweek.
The industry will not prosper as long as it pays abysmal wages, nor can it pay better wages due to internet competition and dutch auction mentality. Inescapable fact....

Those two statements are contradictory. By and large, buying off the internet you get NO answers. Usually can't even ask questions.

So maybe what is happening is that what you are getting coming into the shop is only the people who CAN'T buy from the Internet. Either because they are illiterate, or because they have no idea what they want or need.

While the more clued up ones have said "Bugger buying locally, just too hard" and headed for the net.

Genie

11th March 2010, 20:12

I'm not in business, I am free to shop during the normal work hours but I did so love late night shopping. It had this whole romantic thing about it. twilight an' all.
It's not just motorcycle shops people want open when they are ready to shop, it's all shops/businesses. Society has got so caught up within itself it's kinda forgotten how to breath and relax. We have become a "want it now" society. Everyone deserves a break. The good old days when shops were shut in the weekend and families had ... family time.

Robert Taylor

11th March 2010, 20:31

Those two statements are contradictory. By and large, buying off the internet you get NO answers. Usually can't even ask questions.

So maybe what is happening is that what you are getting coming into the shop is only the people who CAN'T buy from the Internet. Either because they are illiterate, or because they have no idea what they want or need.

While the more clued up ones have said "Bugger buying locally, just too hard" and headed for the net.

No intention to be contradictory as such, I can see both sides of the argument and Im a consumer too.
Try e-mailing me sometime for suspension help..............................there are some of us who do put in the effort

Crasherfromwayback

11th March 2010, 20:37

Ixion...yo're so fucking full of yourself.

"So maybe what is happening is that what you are getting coming into the shop is only the people who CAN'T buy from the Internet. Either because they are illiterate, or because they have no idea what they want or need.

While the more clued up ones have said "Bugger buying locally, just too hard" and headed for the net. "

IdunBrokdItAgin

11th March 2010, 21:06

This thread is just going round in big circles.

I think the message has been made from the point of the consumer.

But to summarise from what I have read in the thread into one short conversation (and being biased towards the view of the consumer):

Consumer: I'm confused as to why the bike shop opening hours are mainly during normal working hours, when it is a retail industry. Other retail industries open both these hours and others (to suit the average consumer).

Bike shops: We are allowed a life like anyone else.

Consumer: No-one disagrees with that but still the question is why not open later and close later, plus possibly being open 9 to 5 on a saturday. Then you can have your mornings and sundays closed. Plus why does every member of a bike shop have to be experienced, why not use a mix of new and experienced staff to cover these periods.

Bike shops reply - then the customer would just get frustrated with new inexperienced staff.

Consumer - but surely the new staff will become experienced over time? Hence this will only be a short term problem and can be mitigated by mixing new and old staff (i.e. rosters).

Bike shops - Nope they won't stick around long enough because only people who really love bikes stay in this industry, due to the shit wages.

Consumer - The shit wages is probably linked to low sales which is probably linked to not being open during the preferred hours of the consumer.

In conclusion I don't think the two sides (of respondents to this thread) will agree on this. This is a real shame as it shows an industry that is slightly out of touch with its consumer, and lots of consumers are missing out on the opportunity to support and enjoy their local bike shops.

Crasherfromwayback

11th March 2010, 21:42

This thread is just going round in big circles.

I think the message has been made from the point of the consumer.

And here's an opinion of someone who's been both a consumer, and in the industry.

It's not a fucking supermarket or a dairy. Your life is often in your (our) hands when you ride a motorcycle. It's a highly specialized industry.

More often that not...the people in the industry are involved with...get a load of this...MOTORCYCLES!!!. We race motorcyles...when are races held???? On fucking WEEKENDS!!!

As said before...if we have students and such people to simply hold the fort...we in the industry would be shot down for hiring 'amateurs', and it could also lead to all sorts of safety related issues, let alone expense issues. The motorcycle industry in NZ is NOT big enough to support shops that try to become 24/7 superfuckingmarkets. Get it?

Ixion...you're obviously THE most intelligent motorcyclist ever born...get your head round that. Or...open up a shop...run it by your "I know what NZ bikers want" rules...make your millions cause you're so switched on, then buy a flight into space and fuck off once and for all. Because you snivelled like a pussy a while ago, left...and came back here with you tail between your legs. I bet because the local bowls club told you to fuck off too.

What is it you do for a living Les? And how much do you spend on motorcycle related costs every year? I'm willing to bet FUCK all. Yet you want to put the knife into the industry here. But I bet even before the age of the keyboard know all...you've NEVER been a spender.

In my day...motorcyclists stuck together. The local shop was the hangout place. You spent your hard earned there..they looked after you.

I'm sure I've seen post's by you and your like...that motorcyclists would always help one another..but you're not a motorcyclist. You're a typist. I'm glad that the average Kiwi motorcyclist doesn't think and act like you, cause then my job would actually suck. Like you do.

IdunBrokdItAgin

11th March 2010, 22:07

And here's an opinion of someone who's been both a consumer, and in the industry.

It's not a fucking supermarket or a dairy. Your life is often in your (our) hands when you ride a motorcycle. It's a highly specialized industry.

More often that not...the people in the industry are involved with...get a load of this...MOTORCYCLES!!!. We race motorcyles...when are races held???? On fucking WEEKENDS!!!

As said before...if we have students and such people to simply hold the fort...we in the industry would be shot down for hiring 'amateurs', and it could also lead to all sorts of safety related issues, let alone expense issues. The motorcycle industry in NZ is NOT big enough to support shops that try to become 24/7 superfuckingmarkets. Get it?

I just typed out a whole response trying to be polite and nice and to again say that I just didn't quite understand the push back to the question.

But you know what - fuck it - I'm done with this thread. It was started with good intentions but it has morphed into a very negative thread.

Ixion

11th March 2010, 22:21

And here's an opinion of someone who's been both a consumer, and in the industry.

It's not a fucking supermarket or a dairy. Your life is often in your (our) hands when you ride a motorcycle. It's a highly specialized industry.

More often that not...the people in the industry are involved with...get a load of this...MOTORCYCLES!!!. We race motorcyles...when are races held???? On fucking WEEKENDS!!!

As said before...if we have students and such people to simply hold the fort...we in the industry would be shot down for hiring 'amateurs', and it could also lead to all sorts of safety related issues, let alone expense issues. The motorcycle industry in NZ is NOT big enough to support shops that try to become 24/7 superfuckingmarkets. Get it?

{snip rest of blowhard ranting }

<snip rest="" of="" blowhard="" ranting="" bollockery="">

And this poster pretty much sums up the attitude of a big percentage of the NZ motorcycle trade. And provides a perfect explanation of why it's going to continue to go down the toilet.

15 years ago this shops with this sort of attitude could get away with it. Now they can't. Brace up , because the rides going to get rougher not smoother.

And an customer service ethos based around the principles that the man in the bike shop is a demi god, that customers are a pain in the neck, who will meekly put up with whatever abuse the demi god cares to throw out, is a good way to make it rougher still.</snip>

SS90

12th March 2010, 00:54

And this poster pretty much sums up the attitude of a big percentage of the NZ motorcycle trade. And provides a perfect explanation of why it's going to continue to go down the toilet.

15 years ago this shops with this sort of attitude could get away with it. Now they can't. Brace up , because the rides going to get rougher not smoother.

And an customer service ethos based around the principles that the man in the bike shop is a demi god, that customers are a pain in the neck, who will meekly put up with whatever abuse the demi god cares to throw out, is a good way to make it rougher still.</snip>

Ixion, while I see your points, and they are valid, I simply see your perceptions of the NZ motorcycle industry industry as somewhat jaded.

What you are not taking into account is the shit that the industry workers must deal with, the time wasters,the punters coming into the shop, trying on a pair of boots helmet etc, simply to find the correct size before ordering it online....this is an increasing phenominon now that "online shopping" has become so popular.

I don't want to whine and moan about specific examples, as that is not needed, but you have to understand it's not possible to provide a motorcycle service industry the way you describe.

I get the feeling that you would like a "more professional" industry........ that would be nice, however, professional employees are VERY expensive, and, by in large, professional employees have very little "heart and soul" when it comes to motorcycles.

This isn't realestate, nor is it insurance, (neither of which require real qualifications), where the rewards are high (financially), and, essentially "any monkey in a suit/dress" can make money, because, basically the customer needs the product you sell, and "being professional" simply pays.

The motorcycle industry is different, a good percentage of the customers (think) they know everything about their bike, and, most of the time simply want to come into a bike shop and talk about either how fast they are, how fast their bike is, or tell you that your tyres are too expensive.

Years ago when I was an apprentice, I was FORCED to work Saturdays, in the show room, and, if a bike did sell I was to head back out to the workshop and WOF & PDI it, and, many times, do a trade in inspection.

I can tell you I resent the loss of my weekends, but can also say that I learned valuable skills in the process......am I rich? am I fuck!

All that experience did lead to "high(ish) industry rate standards", but, compared to almost anything else, it's a joke.

Believe me Ixion, as far as the concept of "professionalism" goes, the NZ motorcycle industry is self regulating.

One thing professional sales people are taught is "to CONDITION buyers/customers to prices", that is, if a customer comes in and say's "oh, that's too expensive", it is a professional sales persons JOB to explain to the customer WHY the price is what it is, as well as "close the deal"...... but from my experience (plus what I read here), the average public simply respond by saying that "the bike shops are ripping us off", and go buy off the net.

I feel I have explained WHY parts/accessories are dearer in NZ retail outlets than "on line", but by in large, it would seem that many people "fail to be conditioned"

I assure you, if there was real demand for shops to be open 7 days, it would happen.

This has been tried, time and time again by various dealers NZ wide......it NEVER works, sweet FA people come in on a Sunday, let alone SPEND anything, so you have begrudged staff (roster or not, Sunday is Sunday), very little in sales, just to have to come back next week and do it all again.

It has been pointed out that Kiwi's have become accustomed to 7 day a week trading, and, yes, by in large, the majority of the sales people who work the weekend are students (selling Ipods etc)

How knowledgeable are these sales people? Everyone can sell an ipod, they are all the same price, user friendly, and most people want one. You just go to the nearest kid in the shop and pays ya money.

Selling motorcycle accessories is another story (again, let's leave bikes out of it), a customer has a budget, and they want that budget to get them the best helmet that it can, so, they first hunt for PRICE......when they find one they like in their price range, they try it on for size, and, to do this correctly, an experienced sales person is required (they cost money you know), then, having decided that this helmet is for them, the next words out of their mouth is "can you sharpen up the price, "or "can you do me a discount"

What?

Why the hell should a customer get a discount on buying a fucking helmet?

I don't get a discount down my local, even though I spend plenty of money there every month.

But, almost 100% of customers ask for a discount on any purchase from a bike shop over $20.

Margins are already tight, and the market is "over subscribed too" as far as retail outlets go, and, really, the price is actually the friggen minimum.

I have heard customers say "oh yea, so and so bike shop charges $25 for that same 1l oil pack, and you want $27.....your a friggin burglar....."

Profit in that 1L oilpack? 4$

How about next time you are getting fish and chips, you tell the guy that the chip shop next to your mates place only charges $2 for the same size piece of fish that he want's $2.20, see what his response is.......

I don't expect to change you mind about the industry Ixion, but I would like you to think of this....The NZ bike industry levels of professionalism are self regulating, it is the devils circle, the more and more people that buy off the net, the higher and higher the prices in the retail shops become (as turnover decreases, margins must increase to maintain the bottom line), then, the customers just complain more........ and the already begrudged staff members have to cope with increased work load (less co workers), and less likelyhood of pay raises.........and now you want him to work Sunday?

Brian d marge

12th March 2010, 03:00

And an customer service ethos based around the principles that the man in the bike shop is a demi god, that customers are a pain in the neck, who will meekly put up with whatever abuse the demi god cares to throw out, is a good way to make it rougher still.

Snip

Thats the feeling I get when I walk into SOME bike shops in NZ , ( except for the big Honda place just outside? Napier and the Suzuki place in Napier ( u guess it I was staying there when last back )

In CHCH , all in Manchester st ? ( or was that them young ladies who thought I was a demi god , oh i forget now ) but except Cycletreads I think they were nice

but when you walk in you just get the feeling ya not wanted,

To get off the subject , In the west we call it say a gut feeling , here they call it Haragei a sort of sixth sense , and it is a VERY REAL part of business both sides know it both sides understand it,, and it can be very difficult to deal with sometimes but shops work VERY HARD at creating this harmony

you want to see tight margins , come to Tokyo and watch your monthly rent kill and hope of a profit , then watch how aggressively shops try and get your custom then reread this thread .... bikes shops are a service industry if you cant , don't want to, unable to , Try another business , John B Mechanic , may be an ace with the spanners ,,, but dealing with a dropkick on a Sunday morning maybe another story ,,,

Stephen

Stephen

carry on ,,,

merv

12th March 2010, 08:09

In my day...motorcyclists stuck together. The local shop was the hangout place. You spent your hard earned there..they looked after you.

That's what I mentioned the Friday night hang-out. Life has changed and it doesn't happen any more.

On another note, swearing at us (or was that just for Ixion?) in your post isn't a great way to improve the look of your business.

Also I think it was Brian d'M said above how the reliability of bikes has changed. Same as cars we don't need stuff all the time for them now, so if a shop wants our money, they have to tempt us with things to spend our money on and when we are available to spend our money. Me and Mrs are definitely impulsive buyers, if you aren't open when the impulse is alive we move onto the next thing to buy. I mentioned buying her new car on a Sunday - easy as that. Honda Cars know what to do to get our business, so why not the bike business?

Genie

12th March 2010, 08:12

oh yes, for me it was Thursday nights, we either congregated at the local Honda shop or the record shop.

SS90

12th March 2010, 08:27

That's what I mentioned the Friday night hang-out. Life has changed and it doesn't happen any more.

On another note, swearing at us (or was that just for Ixion?) in your post isn't a great way to improve the look of your business.

Also I think it was Brian d'M said above how the reliability of bikes has changed. Same as cars we don't need stuff all the time for them now, so if a shop wants our money, they have to tempt us with things to spend our money on and when we are available to spend our money. Me and Mrs are definitely impulsive buyers, if you aren't open when the impulse is alive we move onto the next thing to buy. I mentioned buying her new car on a Sunday - easy as that. Honda Cars know what to do to get our business, so why not the bike business?

I can understand why crasherfromwayback felt the need to use expletives in his post, it basically comes from frustration, bought about by the unwillingness of some people to "see it from the other side".

I have thought if a better way to explain why, motorcycle shops are not open 7 days.

ahem......

The reason motorcycle shops (worldwide) are not open 7 days, is because if they do open 7 days, they don't actually make any more business.

What happens is, when you open 7 days, you simply spread the same business you made over 5.5 (or 6) days, over 7.

Now, think about that. Bike shops struggle as it is, and if they now have to pay staff for an extra day, for the same yearly gross income as they make only being open 6, then the whole industry just took a giant step backwards as far as
growth is concerned.

What about the bank? Why aren't they open even 6 days?

If you have to go to the bank for anything other than a statement, you have to take time off work to do it.

Is there a "Kiwibanker" website?..... I want to ask them why they aren't open 7 days, and while I am at it, I would also like to know why clearing a cheque takes 5 working days, the same as it did 30 years ago, and yet, I can send money all over the world in 24 hours......

Ixion

12th March 2010, 09:37

I can understand why crasherfromwayback felt the need to use expletives in his post, it basically comes from frustration, bought about by the unwillingness of some people to "see it from the other side".

I have thought if a better way to explain why, motorcycle shops are not open 7 days.

ahem......

The reason motorcycle shops (worldwide) are not open 7 days, is because if they do open 7 days, they don't actually make any more business.

What happens is, when you open 7 days, you simply spread the same business you made over 5.5 (or 6) days, over 7.

Now, think about that. Bike shops struggle as it is, and if they now have to pay staff for an extra day, for the same yearly gross income as they make only being open 6, then the whole industry just took a giant step backwards as far as
growth is concerned.

A marketing manager would argue that higher availability will grow the market so that it's not the same amount of business spread out more. But, it's a bit irrelvant, because, really, I don't think anyone (well, not me, anyway), is arguing for 7 day opening. or 24 hour. Just that the 40 hours open time is allocated on a more consumer friendly basis
What about the bank? Why aren't they open even 6 days?

If you have to go to the bank for anything other than a statement, you have to take time off work to do it.

Is there a "Kiwibanker" website?..... I want to ask them why they aren't open 7 days, and while I am at it, I would also like to know why clearing a cheque takes 5 working days, the same as it did 30 years ago, and yet, I can send money all over the world in 24 hours......

Some banks do open on Saturdays. Personally, I haven't been inside a bank in years. Internet banking has made it unnecessary. Anything I can't do on their website, I have a personal banker, I email her and she sorts it. Interestingly, the other bank I bank with (but less business, cos their internet site is not as good), have just sent me a letter saying they've also given me a personal banker. We shall see.

Ixion

12th March 2010, 10:56

Good points, well argued. I'll try to address them .

Ixion, while I see your points, and they are valid, I simply see your perceptions of the NZ motorcycle industry industry as somewhat jaded.

What you are not taking into account is the shit that the industry workers must deal with, the time wasters,the punters coming into the shop, trying on a pair of boots helmet etc, simply to find the correct size before ordering it online....this is an increasing phenominon now that "online shopping" has become so popular.

Firstly, it's not really about me. i'm just using my own experiences as an example. There are probably half a million of us who are not free during the 9-5 week. It's not just office workers- sales rep, truck drivers are on the road all day, but they have to stick to their territory. So they can't get to your shop.

I probably am more jaded than some. But , unlike many, I'm still idealistic enough to WANT a healthy profitable local bike trade. Many are less jaded but just don't bother. "can't get to the bike shop, never mind here's Trademe". And you'll never see them, and never hear from them why they don't buy from you.

All businesses have punters. When I was in pre sales we were trained to 'qualify" customers. But, todays punter may be tomorrows buyer, it's the job of a good salesman to turn the punter into buyer, if not today then in the future. And hopefully punters' mates, family etc.
I don't want to whine and moan about specific examples, as that is not needed, but you have to understand it's not possible to provide a motorcycle service industry the way you describe.

I get the feeling that you would like a "more professional" industry........ that would be nice, however, professional employees are VERY expensive, and, by in large, professional employees have very little "heart and soul" when it comes to motorcycles.

This isn't realestate, nor is it insurance, (neither of which require real qualifications), where the rewards are high (financially), and, essentially "any monkey in a suit/dress" can make money, because, basically the customer needs the product you sell, and "being professional" simply pays.

{snippy} Yes, the trade does need to be more 'professional'. But not in a'suit' way.

Oily overalls, or jeans and polo are just fine. But, the motorcycle trade is really really bad at the one thing it absolutely MUST be really good at. Selling.

Not just taking the money from someone who has already made a purchase decision, but persuading him to buy (even when he only came in to look). And showing him that your (pricier) product is actually better value. And then upselling him, (or switch selling him); and selling in extras; and prospecting and getting the next sale (making sure he comes back to YOUR shop next time he wants something, and making sure that his contact details are on file, and that he's volunteered a couple of leads to follow up).

Now, this is all Salesman 101, and I imagine you're going to tell me "yes yes we know all that you are teaching your grandmother to suck eggs".

Why then, does it so very very rarely happen? There are a few shops that are good at it, but they are rare exceptions.

I will give some examples. Obviously they're based on my own experience, but i don'tr imagine other people would fare differently.

Couple of months ago I lost a glove(Arrgh. Why is it always the right hand. Anyone want a collection of left hand glubs?). OK, if I skip lunch I can just make it to the nearest (quite well known) shop and back in my lunch break.

Hm, where's the glubs. Oh, down the back. Ah, they're all mixed up. Winter, summer, cheap, dear. Oh and there's some more on the floor. I wonder how much these are they're not marked. These look OK, but the pack is sealed, I can't tell if they fit, and there's no sample to try. Finally pick a pair, cheapish, not quite what I wanted, but time is short. No-one's come near me in the 20 minutes or so, no-one else in the shop. Up to the counter, 'That's $X,' , pay, leave.

Fairly typical bike shop experience. And just look at the salemanship crimes in it.
Empty shop. Here's a customer. let's ignore him.
He's looking round , can't find something, let's ignore him.
He's looking at gloves, doesn't seem to have a definate plan in mind, let's ignore him
Oh, he's picked something cheapish, let's not bother to upsell him to a better (= higher margin) product.
He's at the counter, let's not mention our current promotions. And don't bother trying to prospect contact details. Or offer add ons. Or ask for leads. Or try to get him to come back again
(I'm ignoring the fact that the limited opening hours meant no time for browsing- and thus no time for extra sales for the shop).
It's not a exceptional scenario. Another.

I spent a year looking for a good jet style helmet (yes, ATTGAT treason, but if you ride a classic bike, you need a classic helmet). Stuff that has no time constraint, I'm willing to call into shops when I can. No luck finding exactly what I wanted (most shop people had never heard of them - not so knowledgeable, but, worse, they weren't interested in finding out. Here's a potential customer wants something, and is having trouble getting it. Let's not bother to find out what it is, or if other people might want it too, after all it's only an opportunity to secure a market niche) .

Finally decided I'd buy what was available as an interim. (I'm still looking for the right thing - Davida doesn't fit me well). Into shop. Ask question again, in case. Nope, only what's on the shelf (no interest in exploring further). Pick one, pay for it , leave.

Now, I just bought a retro helmet. The salesman made no effort to sell me goggles! Surely a no brainer. Or a scarf, or neck warmer (" Open face can be chilly , Sir. We have a very nice line of quality wool scarves, that would really set off the helmet"). Might have sold me one, my old one is pretty tatty. No attempt to sell me a jacket (" Can I show you our line of matching jackets. For such high quality garments, they're remarkably well priced, and would really complete the retro look"). Might have sold me one, it's on the shopping list. But worst of all, this was a Triumph agency. Triumph, big on retro, heres a middle aged guy buying retro gear, right in our demographic and obviously interested, but lets ignore this chance to get a hot prospect,just let him walk out without securing even an email address. I wonder why bike shops have a problem making money? Missed a chance to upsell, at least two extra sales, and a good prospect for future sales. Never mind, let's just complain how hard it is

I could give lots more examples. Couple of years ago, I walked around for a year, with $1000 in my pocket (literally), because no-one was interested enough to sell me some boots and leggings , until finally a decent salesman at Mt Eden Motorcycles actually did what a salesman is supposed to do : sold product. And got my $1000, and some repeat business.

Now, this doesn't fit with the "bike shop staff have to be highly trained". They're not, or not as salepeople anyway. And that's a really big problem, because it's the ability to actually sell that gives a meatspace shop an edge over the Internet. An Internet seller has very little ability to sell. He just displays his merchandise and takes an order. But in a shop, you can SELL. You can turn a $50 customer into a $200 customer. And secure repeat business for years. But it doesn't happen. The trade is just simply ignoring the one thing where it has a massive edge over the Internet.So what are those people highly trained at ?

Want more? I got more

Even shops that are way out in front of the pack, like Cycletreads (light years ahead, they have a web site , so I can see if what I want is in stock, and the last time I bought a tyre the guy actually upsold me to a more expensive one! Only time anyone's ever tried. And they're open when I can get there ). But, every time I've bought a tyre (lots), and had it fitted, they've gotten me to fill in a job form. Which has a space for email address. Which I fill in. But I've never had an email from them! No basic "Thanks for buying from us, we hope you are happy with your purchase". Costs nothing and cements a relationship. No "We're having a promotion, hope to see you " email. Nothing. They're handed a prospect list on a plate and they ignore it. And that's from the shop at the top.

{Snippy stuff I'd comment on, but space is short} One thing professional sales people are taught is "to CONDITION buyers/customers to prices", that is, if a customer comes in and say's "oh, that's too expensive", it is a professional sales persons JOB to explain to the customer WHY the price is what it is, as well as "close the deal"...... but from my experience (plus what I read here), the average public simply respond by saying that "the bike shops are ripping us off", and go buy off the net.

I feel I have explained WHY parts/accessories are dearer in NZ retail outlets than "on line", but by in large, it would seem that many people "fail to be conditioned"

Selling motorcycle accessories is another story (again, let's leave bikes out of it), a customer has a budget, and they want that budget to get them the best helmet that it can, so, they first hunt for PRICE......when they find one they like in their price range, they try it on for size, and, to do this correctly, an experienced sales person is required (they cost money you know), then, having decided that this helmet is for them, the next words out of their mouth is "can you sharpen up the price, "or "can you do me a discount"
{snippy relevant stuff about pricing in the interests of space, it's in the OP }

I commented below to Mr Taylor, that maybe the customers he was seeing in his shop were those who , for whatever reason, didn't want to buy from the Internet. I think he thought I was taking a dig at him, but I wasn't. What I was meaning was that , the trade seems fixated about having to match the internet for price.

Now, firstly, in my experience, NZ prices are NOT much dearer than those on the net. Once you factor in freight, credit card charges, ripoff exchange rates. By and large, for "run of the mill" stuff, and parts, NZ works out maybe 10-20% dearer. BMW is a bit more, amybe 30%. I think that's mostly a reasonable price to pay for the intangible benefits of buying locally . IF the local shop would bloody well open so that I can get there to buy the stuff ! Specialised stuff, may be different.

Secondly, pitching on price is probably not a good model for NZ bike shops. Someone will ALWAYS undercut you. Surely it's better to try to secure business based on the other two purchase imperatives (remember? price, quality, convenience).

What I was trying to say to Mr Taylor was "the customers you are seeing are not shopping purely on price, or they wouldn't be in your shop. So sell them on quality (if possible) or convenience. They'll pay a premium price for it". You may find that if you put your prices up , but make the purchasing experience a better one, that you get MORE business. And more margin.

I think that most of the NZ motorcycle trade has wound itself into a cost cutting death spiral. Mr Taylor, somewhere, implied that his charge at rate is $90 per hour. Frankly, for a service as skilled and market specific as his, that's ridiculous. I'd expect to pay that for someone to do a basic oil change. For what Mr Taylor offers, I'd argue he should be charging double or triple that. Sure, some people will bitch, and some will go away muttering. But , invest some of that extra income in marketing, and in making the business attractive to purchasers, and net income should actually go up. And it's a less stressdful life! Motorcyclists nowadays are not all impoverished studants or minimum income strugglers. A lot of bikers have very high disposable incomes. The NZ trade is failing to harvest them. To do so they need a change of mind set. It would be a good thing for everyone if that happened.

Lurch

12th March 2010, 10:58

But, it's a bit irrelvant, because, really, I don't think anyone (well, not me, anyway), is arguing for 7 day opening. or 24 hour. Just that the 40 hours open time is allocated on a more consumer friendly basis

Exactly, and the arguments that keep being given are often bullshit:

The main reason is the people who work in them have lives outside the bike shop. A lot of them go for a ride
Bullshit who'd rather ride on busy weekend roads than on a Monday or Tuesday while all the other pricks are at work?

Because at 3.30 on a Sunday afternoon, when your young family is at home
I know I'd rather have two days off during the week to actually spend time with my wife and kids, even if they were school age and I could drop them off and pick them up from school for a change. Heaven forbid I might even be able to participate in a part of their school lives for a rather than see them for a few minutes when they bugger off to a friends place on the weekend.

glyder

12th March 2010, 11:49

I have only lived in NZ for 4 years, and the amount of times i have tried to get work done or buy stuff on a weekend to be told no monday to fri 9-5 only. I once had to take a day off work to buy a plug for the bath, yes i understand people need time off but if you work in shops you work when people whant to buy stuff. Its like a chef saying i dont work weekends and i dont work night times. I once phoned a builder for a quote and he said only give quotes monday to friday, and when i questioned him he said well i need a life. Well go and work for some one then when u self employed if u dont go to work u dont get paid. Same thing as a shop if u not open you can not sell stuff. Thats My Rant Cya

DMNTD

12th March 2010, 11:52

Quasievil

12th March 2010, 11:55

We are open every day hehehehe

DMNTD

12th March 2010, 12:00

We are open every day hehehehe

Same...sort of. I was mad enough to put my cell number on my business card so I get calls all days at alsorts of times.
The doors may close after 4pm on a Saturday yet I'm always helping people out but I'm cool with that...my kids aren't

glyder

12th March 2010, 12:07

Guys
I know you guys need a life, and i know there are only 4.5 million people here and thats why we love it here but surly there must be a half way house here where we can get our stuff with out loosing a day at work and you guys get your life back

merv

12th March 2010, 12:09

Question to y'all....if your local bike shop was open for a "full" day on Saturday (including workshop) and had a late night (7pm-ish) during the week, would that siffice or would it still not be good enough?

Cheers

I've said all through this thread some late closing during the week is all I need - if I could buy stuff then I can plan ahead and buy stuff to use in the weekend which I'd prefer to wasting time on the weekend buying the stuff first e.g. oil, filters etc.

merv

12th March 2010, 12:20

Then another comment:

I dealt with Motomail for the first time in a while when in Auck last week and the service was perfect. They've had my email for years and they do send out info that way (not the big old posted catalogues like they used to) which got me to their sale even though I was up on business and they do have slightly later evening hours so no worries, and for that crack about discounts above, the guy took off a further 10% without me even asking for it once he found I was already on his email list. This was before they even found out I know Big Dave. Can't complain, but I had looked around local shops Motomart & TSS and couldn't buy what I wanted - lack of stock, not my size etc.

avgas

12th March 2010, 12:28

Nah just put ya stuff up on trademe and I am all good lol.
Kiwi-livin at its best

DMNTD

12th March 2010, 12:32

I've said all through this thread some late closing during the week is all I need - if I could buy stuff then I can plan ahead and buy stuff to use in the weekend which I'd prefer to wasting time on the weekend buying the stuff first e.g. oil, filters etc.

Hey ya Merv,
A more than reasonable request IMO...we're already doing this already.

As mentioned earlier, we WOULD be open on a Sunday if it was financially viable.

Ixion

12th March 2010, 12:32

Then another comment:

I dealt with Motomail for the first time in a while when in Auck last week and the service was perfect. ...

I don't deal with Motomail much, because for some reason I don't seem to fit their demographic, but if you do I suspect they would be pretty good. They seem to be the other one up there with Cycletreads.

I've said all through this thread some late closing during the week is all I need - if I could buy stuff then I can plan ahead and buy stuff to use in the weekend which I'd prefer to wasting time on the weekend buying the stuff first e.g. oil, filters etc.

I think it's maybe two different markets. For me, the late night is important , because that's my "race to the bike shop after work on Friday(or Thursday) to pick up XXX for the weekend". Whereas Saturday morning is "browse" time- can be done any Saturday morning, one where I feel like getting up early and don't have anything else on. Saturday afternoon would be nice, but not a big deal.

The other advantage of a late night, is that if you go in and can't get what you need, you can reprogram your weekend, so it's not wasted. Whereas if you have to wait till Saturday morning, and then can't get what you need, the Saturday is sort of wasted. By the time you get home again it's getting too late to plan some other activity.

And then close one day during the week, Monday I guess so staff have a decent weekend. I shouldn't have thought there'd be much business on Mondays.

FROSTY

12th March 2010, 12:43

I need 2 cars serviced at 11.30 tonight --you'll be there to do it ayee mate??

merv

12th March 2010, 12:44

The other advantage of a late night, is that if you go in and can't get what you need, you can reprogram your weekend, so it's not wasted. Whereas if you have to wait till Saturday morning, and then can't get what you need, the Saturday is sort of wasted. By the time you get home again it's getting too late to plan some other activity.

Yeah that's kinda what I'm saying too. If I get up on a Saturday planning to do bike stuff I don't get dressed in my tuxedo and if it turns to custard coz I can't get what I want there I am dressed like a biker doing nothing and the time is wasted.

As for demographics, I'm probably similar in age group to you Ixion, but what I face is being a short arse I need short fit clothes. No use trying on long length trou for example when I need the knees in the right place with armour etc. You can't just cut the bottom off like a pair of ordinary trou getting altered at the mall. Few bike shops cater for my fit. Motomail did have many short fit sizes - good on them.

FROSTY

12th March 2010, 13:06

Guys I'm in an idustry where we are open 7 days a week. But if competition diddn't force me to be I wouldn't be. I'd be closed at least on sunday.
Things have totally spiralled out of control in this country in the "customer service" industry with people expecting to buy groceries for example at 10pm at night.
Yet moan about incrreased costs. Gosh darn it there are only 4.5 million of us.
Its not rocket science to figure out that if you have to pay staff to work 7 days a week then the money has to come from somewhere.
I'm sorry I don't buy into the whole 7 days a week will mean more sales. Proof of that is clear to see in the automotive industy, grocery industry etc. -same sales spread over a longer time
There always a bit of a shift if one (for example) supermarket opens later but then the competition matches them and its back to status quo except EVERYONE looses.
Think about this EVERY single person employed on a sunday costs the company $5000 per year (based on $13 an hour)
In my opinion we in New zealand have (and this is the sad bit) gladly given away one of the things that was great about this country--Our weekends.

Brian d marge

12th March 2010, 13:17

shudddup

you cant do that ,

Honestly next you will be working Christmas day

oh hang on I do that ,,, not good

Stephen

Ixion

12th March 2010, 14:44

I need 2 cars serviced at 11.30 tonight --you'll be there to do it ayee mate??

Yep. Going to cost you, but. Double time, charge out is $120/ hr minimum so that $240 and hour, three hour minimum , $150 call out and unlock fee. Dirt money, danger money, hazardous substances handling (all that petrol!), extra. call when you're ready to bring them round ($20 phone answer fee, plus phone time is chargeable)

avgas

12th March 2010, 15:09

shudddup

you cant do that ,

Honestly next you will be working Christmas day

oh hang on I do that ,,, not good

Stephen
+1
Why do I have to work during weekends? This is not fair!
Mabey the bike shop people are right - No work after 5, no weekend work.
Fuck I dream of a 40 hour week.............

FROSTY

12th March 2010, 15:52

+1
Why do I have to work during weekends? This is not fair!
Mabey the bike shop people are right - No work after 5, no weekend work.
Fuck I dream of a 40 hour week.............
Farout I dream of a 6 day week and a 70hour week --honestly

Robert Taylor

12th March 2010, 16:31

Good points, well argued. I'll try to address them .

Firstly, it's not really about me. i'm just using my own experiences as an example. There are probably half a million of us who are not free during the 9-5 week. It's not just office workers- sales rep, truck drivers are on the road all day, but they have to stick to their territory. So they can't get to your shop.

I probably am more jaded than some. But , unlike many, I'm still idealistic enough to WANT a healthy profitable local bike trade. Many are less jaded but just don't bother. "can't get to the bike shop, never mind here's Trademe". And you'll never see them, and never hear from them why they don't buy from you.

All businesses have punters. When I was in pre sales we were trained to 'qualify" customers. But, todays punter may be tomorrows buyer, it's the job of a good salesman to turn the punter into buyer, if not today then in the future. And hopefully punters' mates, family etc. Yes, the trade does need to be more 'professional'. But not in a'suit' way.

Oily overalls, or jeans and polo are just fine. But, the motorcycle trade is really really bad at the one thing it absolutely MUST be really good at. Selling.

Not just taking the money from someone who has already made a purchase decision, but persuading him to buy (even when he only came in to look). And showing him that your (pricier) product is actually better value. And then upselling him, (or switch selling him); and selling in extras; and prospecting and getting the next sale (making sure he comes back to YOUR shop next time he wants something, and making sure that his contact details are on file, and that he's volunteered a couple of leads to follow up).

Now, this is all Salesman 101, and I imagine you're going to tell me "yes yes we know all that you are teaching your grandmother to suck eggs".

Why then, does it so very very rarely happen? There are a few shops that are good at it, but they are rare exceptions.

I will give some examples. Obviously they're based on my own experience, but i don'tr imagine other people would fare differently.

Couple of months ago I lost a glove(Arrgh. Why is it always the right hand. Anyone want a collection of left hand glubs?). OK, if I skip lunch I can just make it to the nearest (quite well known) shop and back in my lunch break.

Hm, where's the glubs. Oh, down the back. Ah, they're all mixed up. Winter, summer, cheap, dear. Oh and there's some more on the floor. I wonder how much these are they're not marked. These look OK, but the pack is sealed, I can't tell if they fit, and there's no sample to try. Finally pick a pair, cheapish, not quite what I wanted, but time is short. No-one's come near me in the 20 minutes or so, no-one else in the shop. Up to the counter, 'That's $X,' , pay, leave.

Fairly typical bike shop experience. And just look at the salemanship crimes in it.
Empty shop. Here's a customer. let's ignore him.
He's looking round , can't find something, let's ignore him.
He's looking at gloves, doesn't seem to have a definate plan in mind, let's ignore him
Oh, he's picked something cheapish, let's not bother to upsell him to a better (= higher margin) product.
He's at the counter, let's not mention our current promotions. And don't bother trying to prospect contact details. Or offer add ons. Or ask for leads. Or try to get him to come back again
(I'm ignoring the fact that the limited opening hours meant no time for browsing- and thus no time for extra sales for the shop).
It's not a exceptional scenario. Another.

I spent a year looking for a good jet style helmet (yes, ATTGAT treason, but if you ride a classic bike, you need a classic helmet). Stuff that has no time constraint, I'm willing to call into shops when I can. No luck finding exactly what I wanted (most shop people had never heard of them - not so knowledgeable, but, worse, they weren't interested in finding out. Here's a potential customer wants something, and is having trouble getting it. Let's not bother to find out what it is, or if other people might want it too, after all it's only an opportunity to secure a market niche) .

Finally decided I'd buy what was available as an interim. (I'm still looking for the right thing - Davida doesn't fit me well). Into shop. Ask question again, in case. Nope, only what's on the shelf (no interest in exploring further). Pick one, pay for it , leave.

Now, I just bought a retro helmet. The salesman made no effort to sell me goggles! Surely a no brainer. Or a scarf, or neck warmer (" Open face can be chilly , Sir. We have a very nice line of quality wool scarves, that would really set off the helmet"). Might have sold me one, my old one is pretty tatty. No attempt to sell me a jacket (" Can I show you our line of matching jackets. For such high quality garments, they're remarkably well priced, and would really complete the retro look"). Might have sold me one, it's on the shopping list. But worst of all, this was a Triumph agency. Triumph, big on retro, heres a middle aged guy buying retro gear, right in our demographic and obviously interested, but lets ignore this chance to get a hot prospect,just let him walk out without securing even an email address. I wonder why bike shops have a problem making money? Missed a chance to upsell, at least two extra sales, and a good prospect for future sales. Never mind, let's just complain how hard it is

I could give lots more examples. Couple of years ago, I walked around for a year, with $1000 in my pocket (literally), because no-one was interested enough to sell me some boots and leggings , until finally a decent salesman at Mt Eden Motorcycles actually did what a salesman is supposed to do : sold product. And got my $1000, and some repeat business.

Now, this doesn't fit with the "bike shop staff have to be highly trained". They're not, or not as salepeople anyway. And that's a really big problem, because it's the ability to actually sell that gives a meatspace shop an edge over the Internet. An Internet seller has very little ability to sell. He just displays his merchandise and takes an order. But in a shop, you can SELL. You can turn a $50 customer into a $200 customer. And secure repeat business for years. But it doesn't happen. The trade is just simply ignoring the one thing where it has a massive edge over the Internet.So what are those people highly trained at ?

Want more? I got more

Even shops that are way out in front of the pack, like Cycletreads (light years ahead, they have a web site , so I can see if what I want is in stock, and the last time I bought a tyre the guy actually upsold me to a more expensive one! Only time anyone's ever tried. And they're open when I can get there ). But, every time I've bought a tyre (lots), and had it fitted, they've gotten me to fill in a job form. Which has a space for email address. Which I fill in. But I've never had an email from them! No basic "Thanks for buying from us, we hope you are happy with your purchase". Costs nothing and cements a relationship. No "We're having a promotion, hope to see you " email. Nothing. They're handed a prospect list on a plate and they ignore it. And that's from the shop at the top.

I commented below to Mr Taylor, that maybe the customers he was seeing in his shop were those who , for whatever reason, didn't want to buy from the Internet. I think he thought I was taking a dig at him, but I wasn't. What I was meaning was that , the trade seems fixated about having to match the internet for price.

Now, firstly, in my experience, NZ prices are NOT much dearer than those on the net. Once you factor in freight, credit card charges, ripoff exchange rates. By and large, for "run of the mill" stuff, and parts, NZ works out maybe 10-20% dearer. BMW is a bit more, amybe 30%. I think that's mostly a reasonable price to pay for the intangible benefits of buying locally . IF the local shop would bloody well open so that I can get there to buy the stuff ! Specialised stuff, may be different.

Secondly, pitching on price is probably not a good model for NZ bike shops. Someone will ALWAYS undercut you. Surely it's better to try to secure business based on the other two purchase imperatives (remember? price, quality, convenience).

What I was trying to say to Mr Taylor was "the customers you are seeing are not shopping purely on price, or they wouldn't be in your shop. So sell them on quality (if possible) or convenience. They'll pay a premium price for it". You may find that if you put your prices up , but make the purchasing experience a better one, that you get MORE business. And more margin.

I think that most of the NZ motorcycle trade has wound itself into a cost cutting death spiral. Mr Taylor, somewhere, implied that his charge at rate is $90 per hour. Frankly, for a service as skilled and market specific as his, that's ridiculous. I'd expect to pay that for someone to do a basic oil change. For what Mr Taylor offers, I'd argue he should be charging double or triple that. Sure, some people will bitch, and some will go away muttering. But , invest some of that extra income in marketing, and in making the business attractive to purchasers, and net income should actually go up. And it's a less stressdful life! Motorcyclists nowadays are not all impoverished studants or minimum income strugglers. A lot of bikers have very high disposable incomes. The NZ trade is failing to harvest them. To do so they need a change of mind set. It would be a good thing for everyone if that happened.

$90 per hour is a figure that I plucked out of the sky, its not my charge our rate. Note that even ( for example )$40 per hour appears as a ''ripoff'' to many!

Ixion

12th March 2010, 16:39

$90 per hour is a figure that I plucked out of the sky, its not my charge our rate.!

I'm glad to hear it. The labourer is worth of his hire.

Robert Taylor

12th March 2010, 17:10

Robert Taylor

12th March 2010, 17:13

Robert Taylor

12th March 2010, 17:20

Woodman

12th March 2010, 17:42

One of the problems I see is that marketing (warehouse bunnings etc) is obsessed with price. Lowest is best and value means stuff all. The quality of products has gone down but the consumer guarantees act states that everything must be treated the same more or less. Mmargins are tighter so service has gone out the door and generally the consumer is unwilling to pay for good advice and service, and have got used to unknowledgeable part timers on weekends. The customer often will do the research for them before they choose what to buy, and more often than not will just purchase off the site where the research was done.
I don't blame the bike shops for not opening Sundays, yea maybe later on a saturday and a late night. They should be able to roster staff well enough so everyone gets a 3 day weekend once a month or so.
And no person who walks into your shop is a time waster. If they have cash in their pockets then it is your job to get into in your till.

merv

12th March 2010, 17:45

Ixion made a good point that not all motorcyclists are impoverished and go for the lowest price, or something to that effect. And that there are customers who are better off and want quality and service.
Contributors to this this website often assume that almost everyone is in the former category.

Yeah given that the average age of bikers is higher than it used to be and sales tend to be more in the larger bike categories (not counting scooters) these days there can't be a shortage of cash really. Just look on here (KB) how many of us have more than one bike in the garage, and even the ADV guys seem to want something big (except small guys like me) they are riding big KTM's or BMW's, not Honda XR200's any more.

SS90

12th March 2010, 23:24

Good points, well argued. I'll try to address them .

Firstly, it's not really about me. i'm just using my own experiences as an example. There are probably half a million of us who are not free during the 9-5 week. It's not just office workers- sales rep, truck drivers are on the road all day, but they have to stick to their territory. So they can't get to your shop.

I probably am more jaded than some. But , unlike many, I'm still idealistic enough to WANT a healthy profitable local bike trade. Many are less jaded but just don't bother. "can't get to the bike shop, never mind here's Trademe". And you'll never see them, and never hear from them why they don't buy from you.

All businesses have punters. When I was in pre sales we were trained to 'qualify" customers. But, todays punter may be tomorrows buyer, it's the job of a good salesman to turn the punter into buyer, if not today then in the future. And hopefully punters' mates, family etc. Yes, the trade does need to be more 'professional'. But not in a'suit' way.

Oily overalls, or jeans and polo are just fine. But, the motorcycle trade is really really bad at the one thing it absolutely MUST be really good at. Selling.

Not just taking the money from someone who has already made a purchase decision, but persuading him to buy (even when he only came in to look). And showing him that your (pricier) product is actually better value. And then upselling him, (or switch selling him); and selling in extras; and prospecting and getting the next sale (making sure he comes back to YOUR shop next time he wants something, and making sure that his contact details are on file, and that he's volunteered a couple of leads to follow up).

Now, this is all Salesman 101, and I imagine you're going to tell me "yes yes we know all that you are teaching your grandmother to suck eggs".

Why then, does it so very very rarely happen? There are a few shops that are good at it, but they are rare exceptions.

I will give some examples. Obviously they're based on my own experience, but i don'tr imagine other people would fare differently.

Couple of months ago I lost a glove(Arrgh. Why is it always the right hand. Anyone want a collection of left hand glubs?). OK, if I skip lunch I can just make it to the nearest (quite well known) shop and back in my lunch break.

Hm, where's the glubs. Oh, down the back. Ah, they're all mixed up. Winter, summer, cheap, dear. Oh and there's some more on the floor. I wonder how much these are they're not marked. These look OK, but the pack is sealed, I can't tell if they fit, and there's no sample to try. Finally pick a pair, cheapish, not quite what I wanted, but time is short. No-one's come near me in the 20 minutes or so, no-one else in the shop. Up to the counter, 'That's $X,' , pay, leave.

Fairly typical bike shop experience. And just look at the salemanship crimes in it.
Empty shop. Here's a customer. let's ignore him.
He's looking round , can't find something, let's ignore him.
He's looking at gloves, doesn't seem to have a definate plan in mind, let's ignore him
Oh, he's picked something cheapish, let's not bother to upsell him to a better (= higher margin) product.
He's at the counter, let's not mention our current promotions. And don't bother trying to prospect contact details. Or offer add ons. Or ask for leads. Or try to get him to come back again
(I'm ignoring the fact that the limited opening hours meant no time for browsing- and thus no time for extra sales for the shop).
It's not a exceptional scenario. Another.

I spent a year looking for a good jet style helmet (yes, ATTGAT treason, but if you ride a classic bike, you need a classic helmet). Stuff that has no time constraint, I'm willing to call into shops when I can. No luck finding exactly what I wanted (most shop people had never heard of them - not so knowledgeable, but, worse, they weren't interested in finding out. Here's a potential customer wants something, and is having trouble getting it. Let's not bother to find out what it is, or if other people might want it too, after all it's only an opportunity to secure a market niche) .

Finally decided I'd buy what was available as an interim. (I'm still looking for the right thing - Davida doesn't fit me well). Into shop. Ask question again, in case. Nope, only what's on the shelf (no interest in exploring further). Pick one, pay for it , leave.

Now, I just bought a retro helmet. The salesman made no effort to sell me goggles! Surely a no brainer. Or a scarf, or neck warmer (" Open face can be chilly , Sir. We have a very nice line of quality wool scarves, that would really set off the helmet"). Might have sold me one, my old one is pretty tatty. No attempt to sell me a jacket (" Can I show you our line of matching jackets. For such high quality garments, they're remarkably well priced, and would really complete the retro look"). Might have sold me one, it's on the shopping list. But worst of all, this was a Triumph agency. Triumph, big on retro, heres a middle aged guy buying retro gear, right in our demographic and obviously interested, but lets ignore this chance to get a hot prospect,just let him walk out without securing even an email address. I wonder why bike shops have a problem making money? Missed a chance to upsell, at least two extra sales, and a good prospect for future sales. Never mind, let's just complain how hard it is

I could give lots more examples. Couple of years ago, I walked around for a year, with $1000 in my pocket (literally), because no-one was interested enough to sell me some boots and leggings , until finally a decent salesman at Mt Eden Motorcycles actually did what a salesman is supposed to do : sold product. And got my $1000, and some repeat business.

Now, this doesn't fit with the "bike shop staff have to be highly trained". They're not, or not as salepeople anyway. And that's a really big problem, because it's the ability to actually sell that gives a meatspace shop an edge over the Internet. An Internet seller has very little ability to sell. He just displays his merchandise and takes an order. But in a shop, you can SELL. You can turn a $50 customer into a $200 customer. And secure repeat business for years. But it doesn't happen. The trade is just simply ignoring the one thing where it has a massive edge over the Internet.So what are those people highly trained at ?

Want more? I got more

Even shops that are way out in front of the pack, like Cycletreads (light years ahead, they have a web site , so I can see if what I want is in stock, and the last time I bought a tyre the guy actually upsold me to a more expensive one! Only time anyone's ever tried. And they're open when I can get there ). But, every time I've bought a tyre (lots), and had it fitted, they've gotten me to fill in a job form. Which has a space for email address. Which I fill in. But I've never had an email from them! No basic "Thanks for buying from us, we hope you are happy with your purchase". Costs nothing and cements a relationship. No "We're having a promotion, hope to see you " email. Nothing. They're handed a prospect list on a plate and they ignore it. And that's from the shop at the top.

I commented below to Mr Taylor, that maybe the customers he was seeing in his shop were those who , for whatever reason, didn't want to buy from the Internet. I think he thought I was taking a dig at him, but I wasn't. What I was meaning was that , the trade seems fixated about having to match the internet for price.

Now, firstly, in my experience, NZ prices are NOT much dearer than those on the net. Once you factor in freight, credit card charges, ripoff exchange rates. By and large, for "run of the mill" stuff, and parts, NZ works out maybe 10-20% dearer. BMW is a bit more, amybe 30%. I think that's mostly a reasonable price to pay for the intangible benefits of buying locally . IF the local shop would bloody well open so that I can get there to buy the stuff ! Specialised stuff, may be different.

Secondly, pitching on price is probably not a good model for NZ bike shops. Someone will ALWAYS undercut you. Surely it's better to try to secure business based on the other two purchase imperatives (remember? price, quality, convenience).

What I was trying to say to Mr Taylor was "the customers you are seeing are not shopping purely on price, or they wouldn't be in your shop. So sell them on quality (if possible) or convenience. They'll pay a premium price for it". You may find that if you put your prices up , but make the purchasing experience a better one, that you get MORE business. And more margin.

I think that most of the NZ motorcycle trade has wound itself into a cost cutting death spiral. Mr Taylor, somewhere, implied that his charge at rate is $90 per hour. Frankly, for a service as skilled and market specific as his, that's ridiculous. I'd expect to pay that for someone to do a basic oil change. For what Mr Taylor offers, I'd argue he should be charging double or triple that. Sure, some people will bitch, and some will go away muttering. But , invest some of that extra income in marketing, and in making the business attractive to purchasers, and net income should actually go up. And it's a less stressdful life! Motorcyclists nowadays are not all impoverished studants or minimum income strugglers. A lot of bikers have very high disposable incomes. The NZ trade is failing to harvest them. To do so they need a change of mind set. It would be a good thing for everyone if that happened.

To be honest Ixion, you do make valid points, and it would be wise for the industry to take note of them, and it is easier to do that when it is written in a clear form as you have done.

Clearly you are looking at from the point of view as someone with a reasonable disposable income, and perhaps I have adressed it from the point of view of having to deal with customers of smaller means in my examples, but, that said you still have to deal with them, their custom is just as important as someone with money, but, even a rich man will quite often wear you down with trying to cut a "deal on every dollar"

Trust me on that.

I agree that the "average" customer for a motorcycle has changed, and yes, the market must change as well, and, yes, it has not really changed as fast as it could, however, you can't forget that the market is oversubscribed as far as retail (and internet) shops are concerned.

I assure you that every single bike shop owner (not staff) would dearly LOVE to be able to have the shop running 7 days, because if the shop could justify it (profit wise), it would happen.
The fact remains, it just doesn't work.

Later open hours?

No, the whole place just turns into a "drop in centre", and very little work gets done.

I have seen it many times before.

Some people suggest rostered staff (with mid week off), sorry, no...... riding with your mates (who have normal jobs)...... they are working mid week, and, so is your wife...... where is the family time?

I appreciate that you want to support the shops, but you are saying in return that the shops need to support you, and be open at convenient times for you (and others), and that seems reasonable to me, but, it comes down to the realities of NZ business and it's small population.

dipshit

13th March 2010, 04:58

So... most bike shops in NZ are stuck in 1981.

Most bike shops don't want our business because they are too busy running a bike shop and we are more of a nuisance to them.

SS90

13th March 2010, 05:35

So... most bike shops in NZ are stuck in 1981.

Most bike shops don't want our business because they are too busy running a bike shop and we are more of a nuisance to them.

Clearly you are unwilling to accept that several contributors on this thread are from the industry and are giving their (unanimous) reasons for why bike shops aren't open different hours.

Perhaps it would be prudent for you to read Ixions last 2 posts, as he gives clear reasons (using personal examples) as to what he sees should be changed.

Your statement of "Most bike shops don't want our business because they are too busy running a bike shop and we are more of a nuisance to them" beggars belief...... you have missed the point entirely with that post.

I could write dozens of paragraphs on how certain service sectors in NZ "fail the test" (on a recent trip to NZ I stayed in a somewhat pricey hotel for a few nights, and the service was unbelievably poor, surly replies, lack of professionalism
,slow work etc, things that just would not fly in the rest of the world.
I will agree that a large percentage of the NZ motorcycle industry is somewhat lower on the "professional scale" than most other countries (but let's not forget how small the population of NZ actually is)

because the type of job I have here means I don't really deal with "Jo customer", I went to Passau (the nearest big town) and went (for the fist time) to a chain store accessories shop.

When I walked in the door, I was greeted with a friendly smile (welcome sir etc), and after a few minutes looking, I was approached, asked if I needed any help, and that I could help myself to a fresh ground coffee.

It was very nice.

But, check out the prices!

Given that the Euro is double the NZ dollar value, there is no way in hell you could sell the stuff in NZ for the (converted) prices.

It is illegal for pretty much ANY shop in this part of the world to be open Sunday, and they open till 4 on Saturday (which he informed me is NOT their busiest day.....that is the first Monday of every month, because everyone gets paid monthly here.)

Yes, it really is a nice store, but, the prices reflect that.

http://www.louis.de

Like I said, if the public can accept a industry wide 20% increase in accessory prices (so the shops can pay their staff more reasonable rates, not make more money for the owners), then I assure you there will be more willingness for the staff to perhaps change their opening hours to something (even more) anti social.

FROSTY

13th March 2010, 14:48

I'd like to suggest that if companies were open SHORTER not longer hours you would actually see a huge improvement in product availibility and customer service.
By having to staff the company for shorter hours the owner could afford to pay better wages. This means better quality staff be it attitude or simply aptitude.
Trouble is it goes contrary to the the gubbiments plans to improve employment figures on their books.

blackdog

13th March 2010, 15:18

By having to staff the company for shorter hours the owner could afford to pay better wages. This means better quality staff be it attitude or simply aptitude.

? better hourly rate x less hours = same wages!

am i missing something?

FROSTY

13th March 2010, 16:21

Yep dude you are. as a rule in the service industry there is the need for a lot of staff to cover the extra hours.

DMNTD

13th March 2010, 16:44

Robert Taylor

13th March 2010, 18:29

Dear customers,

I have just finished 6 days (53 hours) without a smoko or lunch break.
I'm truly sorry that I won't be at work tomorrow to help with your motorcycling needs as I will be seeking to satisfy mine.

Fuck this bourbon tastes GOOD! .

Only 53 hours? You need to harden up and work longer hours. 2 reasons, one already stated within this thread and also dont forget that a lot on welfare are depending on you!!!!

DMNTD

13th March 2010, 18:48

Only 53 hours? You need to harden up and work longer hours. 2 reasons, one already stated within this thread and also dont forget that a lot on welfare are depending on you!!!!

Heh! I know, slack bugger eh?!

nallac

13th March 2010, 19:11

Some people suggest rostered staff (with mid week off), sorry, no...... riding with your mates (who have normal jobs)...... they are working mid week, and, so is your wife...... where is the family time?

Umm welcome to the real world. not evey one works 9-5 Mon-Fri,add rotating Days/Graveyard in as well.

I need 2 cars serviced at 11.30 tonight --you'll be there to do it ayee mate??

Shit sorry i can't em, i'm rostered on for Graveyard next week...only doing 12hr Days this week.

Dear customers,

I have just finished 6 days (53 hours) without a smoko or lunch break.
I'm truly sorry that I won't be at work tomorrow to help with your motorcycling needs as I will be seeking to satisfy mine.

Fuck this bourbon tastes GOOD! .

Ya Slack bastard,
Had today off(only cause of my BD)worked the last 10days straight,working tomorrow,sun thru to next weds.(at least)
what are weekends........

Robert Taylor

13th March 2010, 19:16

Umm welcome to the real world. not evey one works 9-5 Mon-Fri,add rotating Days/Graveyard in as well.

Shit sorry i can't em, i'm rostered on for Graveyard next week...only doing 12hr Days this week.

Ya Slack bastard,
Had today off(only cause of my BD)worked the last 10days straight,working tomorrow,sun thru to next weds.(at least)
what are weekends........

Try 49 days straight and at least 14 hours per day

merv

13th March 2010, 19:24

Try 49 days straight and at least 14 hours per day

You expect us to feel sorry for you, ya coulda voted Labour haha!

Robert Taylor

14th March 2010, 02:36

You expect us to feel sorry for you, ya coulda voted Labour haha!

Id walk barefoot on broken glass before ever doing that....

DEATH_INC.

14th March 2010, 07:09

Dear customers,

I have just finished 6 days (53 hours) without a smoko or lunch break.
I'm truly sorry that I won't be at work tomorrow to help with your motorcycling needs as I will be seeking to satisfy mine.

Fuck this bourbon tastes GOOD! .
You slack prick! Just when I was gonna come in today and kick some tyres, ask bullshit questions and grumble about your prices, then go home to MY family without ever buying anything off you!
Damn inconsiderate!

DMNTD

14th March 2010, 08:01

You slack prick! Just when I was gonna come in today and kick some tyres, ask bullshit questions and grumble about your prices, then go home to MY family without ever buying anything off you!
Damn inconsiderate!

So solly Mister!:shifty:
I'm going to cruise down to Hampton Downs to watch Mr BB2 have his first race! :Punk:

FROSTY

14th March 2010, 08:52

FROSTY

14th March 2010, 08:53

glass is organised for ya--Ill hold ya shoes

Viscount Montgomery

14th March 2010, 09:19

Bikeshops these days are just a waste of space. They're just big fat pink elephants of little use, full of shifty dodging employees and bosses with halitosis, strange facial features and nervous tics.

All hell bent on fucking anyone and everyone over, just to pay the rental on their glitzy showrooms of shiny gleaming motorcycles that no bastard, unless they win fucking lotto, is going to buy anyway.

The sleazy cheesy salesmen types are there hovering like vultures, none of them know jack shit about motorbikes in the real world, all they've ever done is read the publicity blurb and glossy japanese brochures. Ask them any detailed or important questions and you'll have them stumped within 5 seconds. These dreamers wouldn't know what work was if it bit them on the nose.

The spare part departments are a sick joke, never anything in stock, go to buy a visor or an oil filter and the pimple-brains behind the counter will just creep off into an empty room out back, hidden from view, stand there for 30 seconds stroking their cufflinks, then come back and tell you they just sold the last one that very morning but they'll be able to order one in for you in two days time.

Go to swap some shims and they'll have every fucken rarely used size bar the ones that are really needed. Go to buy a tyre and all they'll have available is hard-line soft sticky crap that wears out in a fortnights riding at 400 bucks a pop.

It's only the snotty nosed sportbike riders that think they need that sticky crap on the road because they've all long ago been brainwashed into believing everything that the 'fast bike' and 'super speed sportbike' and all the rest of the fly-by-night bullshit hyped-up magazines in Whitcoulls at $18.95 a pop are telling them.

And the bikeshops love that and are on their hands and knees grovelling to the flashy Givi one piece leather goons like politicians licking the publics' rectums at election time.

Walk into any bikeshop during the day, all you'll see is pot bellied lard-arses sitting in front of computer screens making out that they're working at something. It's just bullshit.

That's all these bikeshop losers are doing, sitting at their desks scoffing cakes and cream buns at 10 o'clock, 12 o'clock and 3 o'clock and twiddling the day away scrolling on keyboards in some vain attempt to try and look busy.

Come the end of the day when people have knocked off work and are actually wanting to call in for parts/service, the bikeshop wankers have all shut shop and fucked off home.

Come saturday morning, there's fifty fucking customers queued up waiting whilst the only two available bikeshop pimpleheads are yapping on the phone or scrolling their fucking keyboards again.

Time all you bastards stopped your bloody whining and starting sorting your shit

oldguy

14th March 2010, 09:35

I have never worked this one out.

I did ask in a motorbike shop once and the reply was "we don't make enough money on a sunday to break even".

Surely more people are around to buy accessories and trial bikes on a sunday than on a week day?

Just never made sense, you don't see harvey norman or dick smith closing early on a sunday (just comparing some retailers).

It just seems like a really strange business model to me. At first I thought they closed to allow for shop organised rides but this doesn't seem to be the case.
They prob want to go riding like everyone else,
If its a good day, the last place i would be on a Sunday is a bike shop, I would be out riding.
If I needed anything, I would have got it before the weekend.
Weekend for Riding, though only works if you work Monday to friday.

oldguy

14th March 2010, 09:51

Dear customers,

I have just finished 6 days (53 hours) without a smoko or lunch break.
I'm truly sorry that I won't be at work tomorrow to help with your motorcycling needs as I will be seeking to satisfy mine.

Fuck this bourbon tastes GOOD! .

40hrs a week for me Mon to Friday, Life is too short to waste working long hours, if your young yeah go for it, at my age I just want to enjoy my life.
Couldn't handle working on a weekend, feel sorry for peps who have to work weekends, when you can see some would rather be riding like everyone else.

Crasherfromwayback

15th March 2010, 13:15

Ixion says...

"So maybe what is happening is that what you are getting coming into the shop is only the people who CAN'T buy from the Internet. Either because they are illiterate, or because they have no idea what they want or need.

While the more clued up ones have said "Bugger buying locally, just too hard" and headed for the net. "

And this poster pretty much sums up the attitude of a big percentage of the NZ motorcycle trade. And provides a perfect explanation of why it's going to continue to go down the toilet.

15 years ago this shops with this sort of attitude could get away with it. Now they can't. Brace up , because the rides going to get rougher not smoother.

And an customer service ethos based around the principles that the man in the bike shop is a demi god, that customers are a pain in the neck, who will meekly put up with whatever abuse the demi god cares to throw out, is a good way to make it rougher still.</snip>

I believe it's you that thinks you're a 'demi god' Ixion. You're calling yourself a 'customer', and think I'm being rude to you. In actual fact, I'm telling you what a dickhead I think you personally are here, on this site. And why should I not be able to tell you what I think of you simply because I work in a bike shop? You openly stated here that people using bike shops are 'illiterate' or don't know what they want/need!!??

I beg to differ.

You then go on to say "The more clued up ones..." You're obviously putting yourself in there, and again, I beg to differ. You're a bitter sad sack, nothing more. And if you'd like to have a go about egos, it's your ego that wouldn't let you stay away even after your big "goodbye cruel world" load of bollocks message. Pity you weren't man enough to live by it.

dipshit

15th March 2010, 13:54

You then go on to say "The more clued up ones..." You're obviously putting yourself in there,

No, his point is....

Maybe why bike shop workers think their customers are clueless idiots is because maybe they are only the majority of the ones that are coming into your shop.

Those with a clue have found other alternatives and will only go into a bike shop on the rare occasion as a last resort when all else fails. (their previous experiences with NZ bike shops has driven them to this)

There may be a very large customer base that you rarely see set foot in your shop.

Hence why your view and attitude.

avgas

15th March 2010, 13:56

Dear customers,

I have just finished 6 days (53 hours) without a smoko or lunch break.
I'm truly sorry that I won't be at work tomorrow to help with your motorcycling needs as I will be seeking to satisfy mine.

Fuck this bourbon tastes GOOD! .
Will let you know when I get a whole day off........its been 5 weeks straight now. Have been told Sat is a 'mabey'.......god I hope so.
So friggen tired. And it makes it worse when everything seems "quiet".

Crasherfromwayback

15th March 2010, 14:36

No, his point is....

Maybe why bike shop workers think their customers are clueless idiots is because maybe they are only the majority of the ones that are coming into your shop.

Those with a clue have found other alternatives and will only go into a bike shop on the rare occasion as a last resort when all else fails. (their previous experiences with NZ bike shops has driven them to this)

There may be a very large customer base that you rarely see set foot in your shop.

Hence why your view and attitude.

I neither think that..or agree with it. We have hundreds of well clued up customers. The other thing neither you nor Ixion know about me and how I work is this...my customers have contact details for me 24/7, and I'm happy to help whenever I can. I also do things for customers outside of normal shop hours, in my own time for no charge. That's why I'm still here even after 23 years.

Ixion

15th March 2010, 14:47

An interesting development from

Now, I just bought a retro helmet. The salesman made no effort to sell me goggles! Surely a no brainer. Or a scarf, or neck warmer (" Open face can be chilly , Sir. We have a very nice line of quality wool scarves, that would really set off the helmet"). Might have sold me one, my old one is pretty tatty.
I happened to mention this non event to Mrs Ixion

When I got home last night, from seeing a man about a dog, Mrs Ixion says "You are always so hard to buy gifts for, so when you said about needing a new scarf, I thought I could get you one for our anniversary. So I did".

What, apart from being a charming example of uxorial devotion, does this have to do with the pricing of seafood, you think?

Well, Mrs I did not go to a bike shop. Mrs I regards bike shops as dens of iniquity, along with brothels and opium dens, having a nebulous but sinister connection with Sodom, or Gomorrah. Or both. Instead she went to her favourite shop where they sell very expensive stuff for chicks, and stuff that chicks buy for men.And :

1. The shop was open on Sunday !
2. The scarf cost over $100 :eek: . Believe it, this is the shop that sells $1000 handbags (yes, the number of naughts is correct :eek: )
3. In Mrs I's words " I did not know what sort of scarves motorcyclists wear, but I asked the lady in the shop , and she knew exactly what I needed. She says they sell lots of them to motorcyclists and sports car drivers"
4. The helpful lady also told Mrs I that there were cheap scarves available on the Internet and from cheap shops . But 'these are fakes and poor quality' . The lady also showed her a cheaper scarf (about $70), but helpfully advised that it was 'not as good' as the $100+ model. Mrs I is very grateful for this advice
5. The helpful lady also sold her a small, but expensive, packet of special washing powder, which is apparently essential for washing the scarf. Mrs I was very pleased to hear that she could obtain further supplies of said powder from the shop.
6. The helpful lady also suggested that Mrs I find out if I were interested in a matching beanie hat, because if I was , she could provide one at a 'special price' as a set.
7. Mrs I also brought back a brochure provided by the helpful lady for their upcoming promotion. I suspect the helpful lady will be getting further sales
8. Mrs Ixion also bought a brooch. Because the helpful lady commented how well it matched her dress !
9. The lady also asked for an email address , so that so could advise Mrs I of future bargains. So Mrs I provided mine :shutup:
10. The lady was (presumably) disappointed to hear that Mrs I did not 'go on the back of the motorbike', and did not know any other ladies with husbands who rode motorbikes. She asked.

What a saleswoman! Not only was the shop open at hours that suited the customer. She also hit every sales button - upsold, cross sold, on sold, onsold, provided a basis for repeat visits (more washing powder) , and thus more selling opportunities, neutered Internet opposition, and updated her prospects list. Not to mention asking for leads!

I checked Trademe,and found apparently identical scarves (OK, can't check quality on the net) for $30. I pointed this out to Mrs I who was not impressed. "That's no good. I need to see them before I buy them. And if they are so cheap they must be poor quality, how do you know if they are any good? Those will be the cheap fakes the lady warned me about". So much for the internet.

Now, Mrs I is [B] not [\B] gullible, or an 'easy mark'. But she had a requirement, and went to a vendor she trusts. Who did a VERY good sales job, simply by providing the customer with what she wanted, when she wanted it. Mrs I is very happy with her purchase, and with the (excellent) service she received. The likelihood of her buying off the net if future in preference to the trusted helpful lady is zero. Despite the fact that the helpful lady knew nothing at all about motorcycling. I reckon the shop cleared well over $100 margin from that small transaction, plus future business. Which could have gone to a bike shop. And they sell "lots" of them apparently.

I suggest that if motorcycle shops had that standard of customer service and sales(wo)manship , we would hear very little complaint about the internet or poor proitability.

If I were a bike shop owner, I'd hire that lady, for whatever it took, and set up a special section for chicks' fashionwear. With the helpful lady running it. Then go see a security company about a heavy duty armoured car to carry the profits to the bank.

How many bike shops let a customer walk out with a new helmet, without also selling a bottle of visor cleaner? Or new boots without selling socks and boot polish. And a special brush ?

How many bike shops make it their business to build a relationship where the customer has complete trust in them ? It used to be thus : when I was young no-one would have dreamed of doubting the authority of Bill White , or Len Perry. Let alone Mr Weston-Webb (he alone was always "Mr")

Quite simply, if bike shops want to stay in business they have to lift their game to the standards of the helpful lady .

dipshit

15th March 2010, 16:06

Well, Mrs I did not go to a bike shop. Mrs I regards bike shops as dens of iniquity, along with brothels and opium dens, having a nebulous but sinister connection with Sodom, or Gomorrah. Or both.

You mean to say that she doesn't regard foraging through a large clutter of miss-mash in some gloomy dusty corner of a bike shop while the "salesman" has a half-hour long conversation with one of their distributor's travelling reps a pleasant retail experience...???

Surely you jest!

Ixion

15th March 2010, 16:24

I have accompanied Mrs I on occasion to the shop in question. Like others which she patronises, it is very pleasant. Well laid out, attractive. The salespersons are friendly and attentive without being pushy. Never out of the way when wanted , never in the way when not wanted. I think they set a high standard. I do not think Mrs I would be bothered with a shop that did not.

240

15th March 2010, 17:07

Farken hell I don't get some of you guys!!! Do you want to be massaged and given a warm bath and a cup of cocoa or something when you go to a shop?
Are you truly that soft and precious that the guys in the bike shop must "up sell" and bash the shit out of you with throw away American one liners straight from sales school???
Personally i like to walk in say g'day to the bloke who sold you the bike,have a look around then leave.If i want something I will ask.Its a pleasure to talk to guys who know bikes, there are some sales guys out there who have been around for years and years and the reason for that is because they are good at what they do and are pleasant to deal with .I suggest some of you would be the first to bleat if these type of guys packed up and pissed off,as you can't replace experience.
Quite frikken simple really. i don't want nor expect "do you want fries with that?" I know where to go for that.
If you need something for your bike do it when the shop is open....simple.If you can't organize that then you probably shouldn't be riding a motorcycle because that requires some forward thinking and personal accountability.I don't work in the bike industry and my working hours are always on call but i know that if i want or need something for my bike i will sort it so it works for me.
If you are basing your bleating on your overseas experiences then maybe you should go back there???

merv

15th March 2010, 17:34

I neither think that..or agree with it. We have hundreds of well clued up customers. The other thing neither you nor Ixion know about me and how I work is this...my customers have contact details for me 24/7, and I'm happy to help whenever I can. I also do things for customers outside of normal shop hours, in my own time for no charge. That's why I'm still here even after 23 years.

That's more the way to talk Pete. You could have really milked this thread by telling us just how great WMCC is and how guys as experienced as yourself do go out of your way to help and that if only Ixion was in Wellington you could offer him a much better customer service than he is used to (instead of saying what you said earlier). Just open a bit later on the odd evening and I might be happier too, but then your job is to convince me that I need to come in to buy something.

I reckon there is a lot of truth in what Ixion says and he is but trying to help you guys (the shops that is) understand how to drag more money out of our pockets. Its a few years ago now but Whitetrash did a good job when he sold my Mrs a bike from your shop in 2004 and made sure she left the joint with riding trou, jacket and boots that all fitted well, plus a Ventura rack and bags for the bike. It was only a Suzuki (lol) all the same but that boy did a good job at the time.

However, there has never been any follow up after that. We've bought two more bikes since, not Suzukis and not from your shop, but only the Honda dealer has bothered keeping in touch by email or mailouts. Interestingly I hear from Honda cars probably 3 or 4 times a year, plus Honda NZ sends its magazine out so Honda does pretty good in my eyes and we have a Toyota too and Rutherford & Bond keep in touch.

Why is it so hard for bike shops when email is basically free?

Crasherfromwayback

15th March 2010, 17:34

Well, Mrs I did not go to a bike shop. Mrs I regards bike shops as dens of iniquity, along with brothels and opium dens, having a nebulous but sinister connection with Sodom, or Gomorrah. Or both. Instead she went to her favourite shop where they sell very expensive stuff for chicks, and stuff that chicks buy for men.And :

1. The shop was open on Sunday !

So even if bike shops were open on Sundays...they still would've missed out on the sale right? Because Mrs 'I' hates them? I rest my case.

Crasherfromwayback

15th March 2010, 17:50

That's more the way to talk Pete. You could have really milked this thread by telling us just how great WMCC is and how guys as experienced as yourself do go out of your way to help and that if only Ixion was in Wellington you could offer him a much better customer service than he is used to (instead of saying what you said earlier). Just open a bit later on the odd evening and I might be happier too, but then your job is to convince me that I need to come in to buy something.

I reckon there is a lot of truth in what Ixion says and he is but trying to help you guys (the shops that is) understand how to drag more money out of our pockets. Its a few years ago now but Whitetrash did a good job when he sold my Mrs a bike from your shop in 2004 and made sure she left the joint with riding trou, jacket and boots that all fitted well, plus a Ventura rack and bags for the bike. It was only a Suzuki (lol) all the same but that boy did a good job at the time.

However, there has never been any follow up after that. We've bought two more bikes since, not Suzukis and not from your shop, but only the Honda dealer has bothered keeping in touch by email or mailouts. Interestingly I hear from Honda cars probably 3 or 4 times a year, plus Honda NZ sends its magazine out so Honda does pretty good in my eyes and we have a Toyota too and Rutherford & Bond keep in touch.

Why is it so hard for bike shops when email is basically free?

Fair questions Merv.

I've not mentioned what WMCC can and will do for people, as the opinions expressed by me were/are mine, and WMCC should not come into it. But I've said it so many times before that WMCC are the most professional shop I've yet worked for in my 23 years. But we have 23 staff working 6 days a week, and trying to sort either skeleton staff or a second set of workers to do Sundays simply isn't financially feasable, no matter what people think.

Ixion isn't trying to help the bike industry. He's got the knives out for it and thinks he's the pied piper. He has all of the ideas that he'd like to see implemented, but no experience in the industry at all. He'd still put the boot into it if Sundays were staffed by students etc.

When WT was with us, we were running under a different computer system there, and I'm guessing if you haven't been back since we won't have you on file with the new system. If you'd ever like to PM me your email address, I'd love to add you to our data base and keep you in touch with things.

merv

15th March 2010, 17:52

So even if bike shops were open on Sundays...they still would've missed out on the sale right? Because Mrs 'I' hates them? I rest my case.

No, because if you followed the rest of the suggestions she'd find the places surprisingly attractive after all, but only if you went to the trouble of attracting her. That would be my take on this.

Update, now I've read your next post: Ah the old computer has changed syndrome - surely you should've found a way to carry your customer database list over? Don't worry though mate I'll PM ya, and remember I wasn't one looking for Sundays, just an evening if that's possible, could give you a point of difference. It certainly seemed to be working for Motomail in Auckland they open to 6pm all week and 7pm one night.

How busy are you Wednesday or Thursday - what would happen if you opened 10am-7pm? Are there too many early birds that would grumble about the morning service diminishing?

Crasherfromwayback

15th March 2010, 17:58

No, because if you followed the rest of the suggestions she'd find the places surprisingly attractive after all, but only if you went to the trouble of attracting her. That would be my take on this.

And if we made the place attractive to Mrs I...I dare say we'd scare off 80% of our customers Merv.

240

15th March 2010, 18:12

And if we made the place attractive to Mrs I...I dare say we'd scare off 80% of our customers Merv.
:yes::yes::yes: thats dead right you need to market to your target audience no good trying to sell meat to a vegetarian!

merv

15th March 2010, 18:24

:yes::yes::yes: thats dead right you need to market to your target audience no good trying to sell meat to a vegetarian!

Interesting but my daughter is more extreme, she is vegan, but she still shops at an ordinary supermarket in Zurich, because it stocks her needs too, and she just doesn't go to the meat and dairy product fridges.

Perhaps (and I think I said this before) is it time for a change or retail model? - Honda bikes at Honda cars for example and include a fashion centre etc and do stuff like Ixion is saying. Funny that cars are always on display at shopping malls it seems but where are the bikes?

240

15th March 2010, 18:38

Interesting but my daughter is more extreme, she is vegan, but she still shops at an ordinary supermarket in Zurich, because it stocks her needs too, and she just doesn't go to the meat and dairy product fridges.

Perhaps (and I think I said this before) is it time for a change or retail model? - Honda bikes at Honda cars for example and include a fashion centre etc and do stuff like Ixion is saying. Funny that cars are always on display at shopping malls it seems but where are the bikes?

Fashion centre?? Vegan??? farken hell mate no offense as you seem like a reasonable bloke but WTF???:gob:

merv

15th March 2010, 19:16

Fashion centre?? Vegan??? farken hell mate no offense as you seem like a reasonable bloke but WTF???:gob:

Just trying to help these guys extract money from Ixion's pocket, and maybe mine haha. Me and Mrs have little reason to go to bike shops even though we own a fleet, because they are reliable and don't need much. So what else can these guys sell us? They don't do the social Friday nights like denill did back in his day so what do these guys do? Motorad are hosting the annual e-riders AGM this Wednesday night - that goes a long way with goodwill in my view.

325rocket

15th March 2010, 19:19

interesting thread. one of these seems to pop up each year.
personally sunday opening has never been an issue for me as im a 40hr mon - friday. in saying that, i have spent over $1000 on general bike gear in the past 2 weeks and it was all done online.
the only problem was sizing of (dirt bike) pants as i wasnt going to try some on in a shop then get them from somewhere else so i had to take a punt. i punted wrong so had to return them and swap for a different size. this was sorted in two days so no problem at all really! thank you mr motorcycles (http://www.mrmotorcycles.co.nz/index.php) bloody good service.

first time bike / gear buyers are where you have to build the relationship. if you get that sorted you should have a loyal customer. if not, well they know their helmet / jacket / pants / gloves .... size now so if theres no loyalty or bond there they will just jump online and do the business there.

i would like to add that the counter guys at WMCC are always very helpful and friendly.

Crasherfromwayback

15th March 2010, 19:30

i would like to add that the counter guys at WMCC are always very helpful and friendly.

And I'd like to add if you come and see me, I'll personally make sure you get a special KB price.

Crasherfromwayback

15th March 2010, 19:38

Ah the old computer has changed syndrome - surely you should've found a way to carry your customer database list over? Don't worry though mate I'll PM ya, and remember I wasn't one looking for Sundays, just an evening if that's possible, could give you a point of difference. It certainly seemed to be working for Motomail in Auckland they open to 6pm all week and 7pm one night.

How busy are you Wednesday or Thursday - what would happen if you opened 10am-7pm? Are there too many early birds that would grumble about the morning service diminishing?

Merv...if I'm not wrong...you purchased your bike from WT well before we even captured customers email addys?

Motomail are great...but don't forget...they have a captive audience nearly 10 times the size of ours. Auckland = 1 million...Wellington = 180,000

We could and never would open up late during the week Merv, as we have to be there for the office workers and out of towners that need to drop bikes off from 7.30 etc.

merv

15th March 2010, 19:56

Merv...if I'm not wrong...you purchased your bike from WT well before we even captured customers email addys?

Motomail are great...but don't forget...they have a captive audience nearly 10 times the size of ours. Auckland = 1 million...Wellington = 180,000

We could and never would open up late during the week Merv, as we have to be there for the office workers and out of towners that need to drop bikes off from 7.30 etc.

No worries Pete I sent you a PM and I did wonder about the early birds - funny they aren't popping up on this thread though - we all seem to want later or weekends - so who are these 7.30am people?

.... and you weren't capturing emails in 2004, really?

SS90

15th March 2010, 23:42

And if we made the place attractive to Mrs I...I dare say we'd scare off 80% of our customers Merv.

Amen to that!

No disrespect intended to either Ixion or his wife, but, erm, I feel that Ixion's wife was taken for a ride with some manipulative sales tactics "Ohhh, that's a lovely dress, this $200 broach will go lovely with that", "now, to go with your $100 dollar scarf, you will need some washing powder, that's price per gram is comparable to Cocaine"

Who actually washes their scarf?

Just as a side line, does anyone know what the margins are in clothing sales.......... about 150%,making the internet $30 scarf quite possibly "legit", but, the "sales woman" (after controlling Mr's I's emotions with some well timed compliments), has created an aura of trust (because, the sales woman is correct, it is a lovely dress) has easily convinced her that any scarf purchased off the net "cannot be legitimate" (because the honest, clearly tasteful sales woman said so)

If this sort of rubbish was tried in a bike shop, and was successful, then I'll see you all at the Gay Pride parade in Sydney! (oh ah)

I don't mean to imply your wife is a simpleton Ixion, just a victim of "sales manipulation".....a common effect in the world of the sales industry,particularly one that caters to women over 40, and, as 240 has said, that sort of shit will not run in a bike shop in New Zealand.

Your wife will never be a target demographic of the motorcycle industry, and to cater for her is foolhardy.

Bikes for men, $100 scarves for women.

SS90

15th March 2010, 23:47

I did wonder about the early birds - funny they aren't popping up on this thread though - we all seem to want later or weekends - so who are these 7.30am people?

I just wonder if these people are happy, and feel no compulsion to bleat.

Ixion

16th March 2010, 10:08

I just wonder if these people are happy, and feel no compulsion to bleat.

Perhaps they are happy. But self evidently they aren't enough to keep the industry flourishing.

Bottom line (where it all counts) is that by the trade's own statements, the motorcycle trade in NZ is in trouble (or else bike shop owners just like bleating).

The present model isn't working. The trade can simply sit back and continue to complain that riders are stupid , inconsiderate, interfere with shop owners' lifestyles, and should be forbidden to buy from the net. While the bike shops shut their doors.

Would it personally inconvenience me if every bike shop in NZ closed? Not much. My needs are simple, and apart from tyres can readily be met from non-bike-shop sources or the net. So , personally, I don't really care. If the trade is committed to its present death spiral , so be it.

But, it would be a pity in a more general sense. And oblivion is not inescapable. Pretty much every business is exposed to competition from the internet. Most deal with it, by a sales model that provides better VALUE even though PRICE may be higher. Price and value are not the same. I gave an example of a business which is coping with internet competition successfully (very successfully if the big new Mercedes parked outside is any measure) .

Of course a sales approached based on complimenting bikers' on their pretty dresses won't generally work. Except maybe for some Honda riders :dodge: But it's bullshit to imagine that bikers are hard headed Scotsmen who can't be flim flammed. It's just a different flim flam. Helmets double the price because "it's the same colours as Rossi's". Toothpaste suits with race humps (like they're necessary on the public road). Not to mention the whole "wall of chrome" thing. "What a pretty dress" = "Nice bike , mate- bet it goes like stink" . It's up to the bike shop owners to actually SELL - to find the sales approach that does work with bikers, and makes them happy to pay more at the bike shop than the internet. Because they perceive they receive better value.

It doesn't matter whether the cusomer is manipulated or not, if the customer is happy with the transaction. "Sales manipulation" is what a salesman's job is all about. If he can't or won't do that, then he should be in another job.

Sell, or sink. The choice is up to each individual shop owner. But I can say with certainlty that bleating about how stupid customers are , and how unfair the internet is, is not the answer to business survival. The internet is here to stay. And the demographic of bikers has changed. Some of them nowadays maybe even wash their scarves. Accept that reality and work within it , or go broke. The choice is yours (generic yours, not you). But if you choose to ignore reality, don't bleat about it.

Swoop

16th March 2010, 10:38

Face it, NZ dosen't have enough bikers to keep shops open 7 days.
Then, if there were enough bikers to achieve that, the roads would be full of bikes out for weekend rides... (making midweek riding even more enticing!)

Be happy with the situation we currently have, and build a relationship with your favourite shop. Hopefully they have staff like DMNTD and CFWB (to mention only a couple).

What we need is a bike shop that lends out Porn Stars.
Then they could bring them back in on Sundays and change the plastics.
Hopefully they would have the correct size of nipple wrench for that task.:shifty:

scott411

16th March 2010, 11:13

i think this has gone on to far, not all riders are
are stupid , inconsiderate, interfere with shop owners' lifestyles

and people that work in bikes shops are not all like

The sleazy cheesy salesmen types are there hovering like vultures, none of them know jack shit about motorbikes in the real world, all they've ever done is read the publicity blurb and glossy japanese brochures. Ask them any detailed or important questions and you'll have them stumped within 5 seconds. These dreamers wouldn't know what work was if it bit them on the nose.

The spare part departments are a sick joke, never anything in stock, go to buy a visor or an oil filter and the pimple-brains behind the counter will just creep off into an empty room out back, hidden from view, stand there for 30 seconds stroking their cufflinks, then come back and tell you they just sold the last one that very morning but they'll be able to order one in for you in two days time.

swoop puts it well when he says that the country is not big enough to support sunday openings on mass, i know of a few shops that have tried, and most gave up after it just did nto pay for itself,

in the 15 odd years i have been selling bikes bits i have met some really cool staff, and customers in bikes shops, but i have also met some right fuckwits on both sides of the counter as well,

your right in that the market is changing, and i am not in the boat that thinks anyone that brings stuff in themselves is a traitor, i can understand why it is done, and we will get stuff to keep good customers happy, the internet is still small in percentage here at the moment, and different shops are doing different aspects of it, motorcycling is very niche in alot of areas, between off road that there are 4 or 5 different different parts, and prob at least 8-10 different sections of road bike customers, that all demand different thing, NZ's a small place and putting yourself into a small niche is pretty hard, most shops try to be something for everyone and its a hard mix at times, Welllington MC is a shop that i think has done very well for a long time, from when i was a sales rep it was one of the shops i took alot out of when i brought my own, and i think motomail and cycletreads are places that have shown what can be done as well, like most industry's, you learn and adapt, or you die,

interesting discussion at least, when people get away from the petty name calling,

merv

16th March 2010, 12:33

Face it, NZ dosen't have enough bikers to keep shops open 7 days.
Then, if there were enough bikers to achieve that, the roads would be full of bikes out for weekend rides... (making midweek riding even more enticing!)

So what is the industry doing to make sure there are "enough bikers"? Old Mr Honda way back started the "You meet the nicest people on a Honda" campaign and sales rocketed. OK so maybe there was an appetite for it then, but what is today's equivalent, where are all the smart marketers to get stuff selling? Where are the displays in malls to attract attention and other ways to hype up the experience to make people want to try being a biker.

Do other businesses give up saying there aren't enough people out there, instead of figuring out ways to increase their market?

Crasherfromwayback

16th March 2010, 12:57

So what is the industry doing to make sure there are "enough bikers"? Old Mr Honda way back started the "You meet the nicest people on a Honda" campaign and sales rocketed. OK so maybe there was an appetite for it then, but what is today's equivalent, where are all the smart marketers to get stuff selling? Where are the displays in malls to attract attention and other ways to hype up the experience to make people want to try being a biker.

Do other businesses give up saying there aren't enough people out there, instead of figuring out ways to increase their market?

I actually think motorcycling on the whole has a greater profile now than in the past few years Merv. I've noticed more young riders both male and female getting involved which is great. I think a fair bit of it may be the whole global recession thing that's hit the whole motor industry (car and bikes), may just be starting to bite here a bit. I know it's different...but have a look at the housing market too right now. I think Kiwis are starting to tighten their belts a bit.

Brian d marge

16th March 2010, 14:28

i

interesting discussion at least, when people get away from the petty name calling,

Aww

It will get boring

Honestly , I would ( as i have said ) A small stand with universal parts and a bike or to and attend the trail rides on Sundays You lot can all close , I dont care Im as happy as !

Profit or not ,

Stephen

then

scott411

16th March 2010, 14:44

Honestly , I would ( as i have said ) A small stand with universal parts and a bike or to and attend the trail rides on Sundays

it has been tried before, but never really been that succesfull, most dirtbikers will carry basic spares for there bike, and anything apart from levers and tubes everything else is pretty specific, but the really hard thing is to watch everyone else riding while you sit in the pits not being able to go for a ride yourself, so you do not get your fun either

we do it differently and we run the trial ride, we do not take parts for sale but very often bring parts out that have been ordered by customers the week before,

Scorp

16th March 2010, 15:10

Face it, NZ dosen't have enough bikers to keep shops open 7 days.
True. But they could stay shut on Mondays and open on Sundays. Probably sell more gear that way too.

Crasherfromwayback

16th March 2010, 15:22

True. But they could stay shut on Mondays and open on Sundays. Probably sell more gear that way too.

A few shops in NZ do that...but we find we have too many customers wanting to drop bikes off for repairs etc on Mondays (after the weekend riding) to be able to do that.

rachprice

16th March 2010, 15:49

So maybe what is happening is that what you are getting coming into the shop is only the people who CAN'T buy from the Internet. Either because they are illiterate, or because they have no idea what they want or need.

While the more clued up ones have said "Bugger buying locally, just too hard" and headed for the net.

The trade can simply sit back and continue to complain that riders are stupid , inconsiderate, interfere with shop owners' lifestyles, and should be forbidden to buy from the net.

But I can say with certainlty that bleating about how stupid customers are , and how unfair the internet is, is not the answer to business survival.

I didn't hear any of the people who work in the bike industry complain about how customers are stupid, you did though

HenryDorsetCase

16th March 2010, 15:52

I actually think motorcycling on the whole has a greater profile now than in the past few years Merv. I've noticed more young riders both male and female getting involved which is great. I think a fair bit of it may be the whole global recession thing that's hit the whole motor industry (car and bikes), may just be starting to bite here a bit. I know it's different...but have a look at the housing market too right now. I think Kiwis are starting to tighten their belts a bit.

Definitely agree on the belt tightening, not so much on the recession driving motorbike sales thing. I believe that no one rides a motorbike because they HAVE to, we all do it because we WANT to. Cars are much cheaper than bikes and at that economy (setting a random price of $5k, say) level that five large gets you a roof, heater, bangin' tunes and a place to finger your girlfriend plus carry your mates around. that five grand on a bike (four if you have to buy gear first) gets you wet when it rains, can only carry one passenger (and most chicks dislike bikes) and the INHERENT DANGER of bikes gets you lectured by everyone from the drone behind the counter at the servo, to your Mum and your relatives, and your gf's parents too.**

That, incidentally, is why I believe everyone who rides a bike is worth talking to, no matter the make, model or age or how much money invested or not: that self selection, that conscious choice that "I will use my money in this way". Sure there are some dicks on bikes, but a lot less than in the general random population, or in groups self selected by other sporting or lifestyle choices (rugby heads for example)

** I do realise the very broad brush I am painting with, I'm making a point.........

HenryDorsetCase

16th March 2010, 15:55

A few shops in NZ do that...but we find we have too many customers wanting to drop bikes off for repairs etc on Mondays (after the weekend riding) to be able to do that.

One of the shops here (YEARS AGO) was open on Saturdays when no one else was, and closed on Tuesdays. Lindsay Williamson at Chch Motorcycles when they were on Tuam St.

Crasherfromwayback

16th March 2010, 15:56

and a place to finger your girlfriend
.

You can finger 'em on a bike too dude!

Ixion

16th March 2010, 16:12

I didn't hear any of the people who work in the bike industry complain about how customers are stupid, you did though

Try a selection

Ahhhhh, the tell tale behaviour of the " slack jawed customer ". A common breed found in all areas of the retail & service jungle. Display an inability to relate the consumer premises & it's payed inhabitants to their own method of revenue accrual. Generally fail to engage on most human levels at first acquaintance.

The motorcycle industry is different, a good percentage of the customers (think) they know everything about their bike, and, most of the time simply want to come into a bike shop and talk about either how fast they are, how fast their bike is, or tell you that your tyres are too expensive.

n the 15 odd years i have been selling bikes bits i have met some really cool staff, and customers in bikes shops, but i have also met some right fuckwits on both sides of the counter as well,

Don't think I did though.

Robert Taylor

16th March 2010, 17:28

Crasherfromwayback

16th March 2010, 17:45

There are some good shrinks that attend to anger management issues...................

Lost cause I'd say. He's way to bent out of shape even for professional help.

SS90

16th March 2010, 23:05

True. But they could stay shut on Mondays and open on Sundays. Probably sell more gear that way too.

No, that's incorrect, that subject has been discussed to death....... I know 4 shops that tried it, and now all are back to 6 days, closed Sunday.

If it worked, it would happen.

The market dictates opening hours.

The end.

SS90

16th March 2010, 23:11

Try a selection

Don't think I did though.

Actually Ixion, I am of the opinion you are giving examples to (apparently) support your claim that workers in the industry think that all customers are stupid...... none of your "examples" support that.....

"The motorcycle industry is different, a good percentage of the customers (think) they know everything about their bike, and, most of the time simply want to come into a bike shop and talk about either how fast they are, how fast their bike is, or tell you that your tyres are too expensive."

Is simply a statement of fact, used to show the difference between a person buying an Ipod ("My Ipod is faster than yours ")?, or "My Ipod play's music louder")......not the sort of comment you hear at Dick Smith.

SS90

16th March 2010, 23:21

Perhaps they are happy. But self evidently they aren't enough to keep the industry flourishing.

Bottom line (where it all counts) is that by the trade's own statements, the motorcycle trade in NZ is in trouble (or else bike shop owners just like bleating).

The present model isn't working. The trade can simply sit back and continue to complain that riders are stupid , inconsiderate, interfere with shop owners' lifestyles, and should be forbidden to buy from the net. While the bike shops shut their doors.

Would it personally inconvenience me if every bike shop in NZ closed? Not much. My needs are simple, and apart from tyres can readily be met from non-bike-shop sources or the net. So , personally, I don't really care. If the trade is committed to its present death spiral , so be it.

But, it would be a pity in a more general sense. And oblivion is not inescapable. Pretty much every business is exposed to competition from the internet. Most deal with it, by a sales model that provides better VALUE even though PRICE may be higher. Price and value are not the same. I gave an example of a business which is coping with internet competition successfully (very successfully if the big new Mercedes parked outside is any measure) .

Of course a sales approached based on complimenting bikers' on their pretty dresses won't generally work. Except maybe for some Honda riders :dodge: But it's bullshit to imagine that bikers are hard headed Scotsmen who can't be flim flammed. It's just a different flim flam. Helmets double the price because "it's the same colours as Rossi's". Toothpaste suits with race humps (like they're necessary on the public road). Not to mention the whole "wall of chrome" thing. "What a pretty dress" = "Nice bike , mate- bet it goes like stink" . It's up to the bike shop owners to actually SELL - to find the sales approach that does work with bikers, and makes them happy to pay more at the bike shop than the internet. Because they perceive they receive better value.

It doesn't matter whether the cusomer is manipulated or not, if the customer is happy with the transaction. "Sales manipulation" is what a salesman's job is all about. If he can't or won't do that, then he should be in another job.

Sell, or sink. The choice is up to each individual shop owner. But I can say with certainlty that bleating about how stupid customers are , and how unfair the internet is, is not the answer to business survival. The internet is here to stay. And the demographic of bikers has changed. Some of them nowadays maybe even wash their scarves. Accept that reality and work within it , or go broke. The choice is yours (generic yours, not you). But if you choose to ignore reality, don't bleat about it.

You are quite right on a number of points, and I concede that the industry must keep pace with the changing market, but please don't forget that the "bread and butter" motorcyclists are not like yourself.

If "Born agains" "Newbies", or what ever title you want to give them, want to be part of the "scene", then they have to realise that if the industry changed to suit their specific needs, then the "old boys" will be disgruntled and no longer support that shop.

It's happened before you know.

It needs a little compromise from the retailers, and "both" types of customers.

Customers need to feel comfortable when they shop.

Making a Lawyer comfortable is totally different to making a plumber comfortable (and both are customers of equal value).

And 99% of the time, the Lawyer is a "one time purchase" (Maybe a big American custom to impress his mates, and some chrome and riding gear), and the Plumber is on his 12th bike (smaller margin for the dealer, but larger "turn over", and does not want his arse kissed by some "false compliments", to entice him to buy a $100 scarf.

If the New born professional biker want's to be part of the scene, then he/she needs to "harden up", it's born to be wild" they want, not "Born to be mild"

Brian d marge

17th March 2010, 00:20

you run the meeting..I am quite happy in the carpark

but from the trail rides I have done , I could have sold a whole lot of generic parts , such as universal clutch perches , 2 stroke oils , inner tubes ...tyres ( I could have sold my right nut for any form of black round rubbery thing on an Enguro I was on once

and it beats sitting in front of this computer in the middle of tokyo ANY DAY

Stephen

mind u the project I am on is interesting .. but this bottle of scotch has a blasted hole in it .......

Scorp

17th March 2010, 07:37

If it worked, it would happen.

The market dictates opening hours.

The end.
I agree completely. Please forgive a noob for venturing a suggestion.

Although there's still: ANZA Motocycles in Palmerston (http://www.anzamotorcycles.co.nz/content/welcome.aspx)

Sausage sizzle

We are open 7 days - we don't know of any other motorcycle shop in New Zealand that is. On Sundays our showroom becomes a real melting pot of motorcyclists out for a ride. Groups of 2, 3 or 30 arrive from all over and enjoy hot coffee, muffins and catching up with each other. Remember if you have a group of 15 or more out for a ride, any day of the week, just give us a ring beforehand and we can organise a sausage sizzle for you.

Best wishes and ride safely!

Kerry, Grace and the Anza team

SS90

17th March 2010, 08:54

I agree completely. Please forgive a noob for venturing a suggestion.

Although there's still: ANZA Motocycles in Palmerston (http://www.anzamotorcycles.co.nz/content/welcome.aspx)

Yes, but erm, even from there "blurb", they suggest that it is simply a meeting place for riders to come on a Sunday, and they also sell cars........

Like you say, I am pretty certain they are the last ones left doing it.

Ixion

17th March 2010, 10:02

You are quite right on a number of points, and I concede that the industry must keep pace with the changing market, but please don't forget that the "bread and butter" motorcyclists are not like yourself.

If "Born agains" "Newbies", or what ever title you want to give them, want to be part of the "scene", then they have to realise that if the industry changed to suit their specific needs, then the "old boys" will be disgruntled and no longer support that shop.

It's happened before you know.

It needs a little compromise from the retailers, and "both" types of customers.

Customers need to feel comfortable when they shop.

Making a Lawyer comfortable is totally different to making a plumber comfortable (and both are customers of equal value).

And 99% of the time, the Lawyer is a "one time purchase" (Maybe a big American custom to impress his mates, and some chrome and riding gear), and the Plumber is on his 12th bike (smaller margin for the dealer, but larger "turn over", and does not want his arse kissed by some "false compliments", to entice him to buy a $100 scarf.

If the New born professional biker want's to be part of the scene, then he/she needs to "harden up", it's born to be wild" they want, not "Born to be mild"

Well, I'm an 'old boy' on way more than my 12th bike, and I can't see why making the bike trade attractive to people who have money and are willing to spend it would necessarily make it less attractive to me.

Sure, neither the lawyer nor the plumber (toss-up which would ride the HD) may be interested in a $100 scarf (though if the plumber just bought a retro helmet ???). But a modern bike shop is likely to have female riders as customers. If it hasn't then there's something wrong to start with . And they are as likely as any other chick to be interested in pretty things. They're not all butch dykes, y'know.

And if the HD rider isn't into scarves, he MAY be willing to pay good money for a chrome doo-rag pin with a flashing blue LED in the middle (garrggh - it probably would sell, too).

And the plumber isn't into pins, or scarves, but he may be VERY interested in the new rainsuits you have in. Which definately DO NOT leak at the crotch. Especially if he trusts you enough to take your word for it that they don't (does he?). He didn't come in looking for a rainsuit (already got two): but one that doesn't leak , even if he doesn't have budget for it today , he'll be back to buy. If you sell it properly (yep, "manipulate the customer"). Don't forget to mention that the sizing is odd, in case he does go looking on the internet.

Oh, and now the rain suit is sorted, is a good time to pull out the brochures of the range of long storm coats . Can't get them ANYWHERE. You don't stock them (not a lot of demand) but you can get in a sample for him to look at if he's interested in. He will be.

Now , in all of this (a) neither the lawyer nor the plumber came in looking for these things (b) they are stuff that they will be VERY interested in (c) the price is NOT going to be the primary driver - you won't be up against "I can get it for less on the net".

Of course, these are just examples. Suggestions . So , please, don't focus on shooting down the idea that HD riders are keen on doo-rag pins. Make it whatever HD riders DO go gah-gah over - I don't ride one so I don't know

The difference between a good salesman and an order taker is that the former can read the customer, and knows what (profitable) merchandise to suggest to him. And can win the customer's trust so that he believes you (hypothetical you) when you tell him it doesn't leak.

OH, BTW , the plumber came in for a new chain. Which you've sold him. Not so much profit on chains nowadays, cos of internet competition. But, you've also sold him a can of the new brand of chain lube you have. Specially developed for riders who do a lot of wet weather riding. Lots of profit on that item, and the customer will pay it, because he perceives a value add (for him - cos he rides in the rain) .

He hesitates ? It *is* pricey - offer him a money back if he's not satisifed deal. Research shows that , so long as you've read your customer right, such an offer is a very safe one (assuming your product IS good quality - if it isn't don't waste your time, you'll never compete with the internet for selling crap) .

So, lets see. You've now sold your "12th bike" customer a chain, chain lube ($$), a rain suit ($$$) and he'll be back for that storm coat ($$$$$). Yep, he's been well manipulated. And, y'know what? He'll go out of your shop a very satisfied customer, and tell everyone what a good shop yours is. Genuine old fashioned service and value.

Always assuming that you are actually open when he goes looking for that chain, of course.

(You can construct similar scenarios for the HD rider, I don't understand them well enough. And for that chick who likes pretty things)

Crasherfromwayback

17th March 2010, 11:13

This thread has been done to death!

merv

17th March 2010, 11:34

This thread has been done to death!

.. but hey I got my first WMCC mail out email today.

Also I think I am with Ixion on this, if the shops don't want to take our money the way we want to give it as customer we don't mind, we just spend it on other things. So if this thread has been done to death and the shops have not bothered taking anything from the comments made, then at ease, back to the internet.

Crasherfromwayback

17th March 2010, 12:12

.. but hey I got my first WMCC mail out email today.

Also I think I am with Ixion on this, if the shops don't want to take our money the way we want to give it as customer we don't mind, we just spend it on other things. So if this thread has been done to death and the shops have not bothered taking anything from the comments made, then at ease, back to the internet.

Great stuff!

Merv...you can be with Ixion on this one. Don't think the whole Sunday thing hasn't been discussed in GREAT detail here at WMCC, and I'm sure in most shops. But we don't think we can make it work. Hence my thinking the thread has been done to death. Everyone is going round in circles. As I've said...all of my customers can get hold of me 24/7, my home number is on my business card. Best I can do.

Quasievil

17th March 2010, 14:48

This thread has been done to death!

Fuck yeah, we been open the entire time to !!

Crasherfromwayback

17th March 2010, 15:57

Fuck yeah, we been open the entire time to !!

Think I've sold 8 bikes. Who said men can't multi task!

R-Soul

17th March 2010, 16:07

i agree, it makes it really hard to go round all the dealers in 1 weekend. no im not going to take time off work to spend my money in their store.

hire weekend only staff

hire weekend only staff

hire weekend only staff

this is a vaild point, however if i cant get to the damn store, where dose that leave me? the internet. Why can't the shops figure out a way to compete with the internet (i.e., open longer hours, easy to get to, knowledgeable staff, good mechanics, good supply of accessories)

Agree with you 100%

not sure if you're talking about bike shops here or supermarkets? The issue here is the time in the weekend (retails prime time) that they are open for.

thats a great alterative / idea about later weekday nights - it'd be much easier for me to get to a shop after 7pm than to somehow get time off during the day.

Couldn't. Agree. More.

What he said!!! :niceone:

The bike shops are one, and the banks are another... God forbid that they open on weekends when their clients can get to them. Or stock huge numbers of tellers over lunchtime when EVERYONE goes there on weekdays.

R-Soul

17th March 2010, 16:21

Make it whatever HD riders DO go gah-gah over - I don't ride one so I don't know

What? Are bike shops into gay porn now?

I think what Ixion is saying is that bike shops ONLY point of (positive) differentiation is the personal touch. The personal relationship. You can use it to upsell.

The customer may not buy first time. He may be a tyre kicker for a few visits. But after a personal relationship has been established, and he feels welcome and like "one of the boys" he wont go elsewhere. Loyalty and friendship is worth a lot.

But if you dont make yourself available to establish the relatinship, or have a bad attitude towards his tyre kicking, then you lose your only real point of difference to internet sales.

R-Soul

17th March 2010, 16:32

Making a Lawyer comfortable is totally different to making a plumber comfortable (and both are customers of equal value).

To my mind, a plumber has even less time to screw around in a bike shop during the day when each hour not worked is an hour not earning. At least some lawyers work on salary. And salaried lawyers are less likely to be clock watched.

Have you ever tried ASKING the "old boys" what time would suit them?

And 99% of the time, the Lawyer is a "one time purchase" (Maybe a big American custom to impress his mates, and some chrome and riding gear), and the Plumber is on his 12th bike (smaller margin for the dealer, but larger "turn over", and does not want his arse kissed by some "false compliments", to entice him to buy a $100 scarf.

I would have thought that the ego driven lawyer would demand the latest models more often? Perhaps tehy jsut dont come back to YOUR shop for the second to the 12th bike...

If the New born professional biker want's to be part of the scene, then he/she needs to "harden up", it's born to be wild" they want, not "Born to be mild"

Keep making all the excuses you like. Motorbikes are for everyone now - from commuters to Hells Angels, chicks to kids, road bikes to MX, all ages all sizes, all attitudes. Some of them have no intention of buying into the poser HD lifestyle. some ofthem are in it, and want to be out.

You need to be there for all of them. Forging the relationships.

325rocket

17th March 2010, 18:55

It needs a little compromise from the retailers, and "both" types of customers.

If the New born professional biker want's to be part of the scene, then he/she needs to "harden up", it's born to be wild" they want, not "Born to be mild"

Not necessarily, i do 99% of my buying online and i dont think im missing out on anything. i only buy from bike shops when i know exactly what i want so i can go in get it and walk out.

thats not a dig at the local shops, its just a fact. i dont feel compelled to buy from bike shops.
i am starting to build a bit of a relationship with Richards in Johnsonville though. i like their old school approach and he always gives me more information then i need. good value.

IdunBrokdItAgin

18th March 2010, 00:22

Right - bugger it - I know I said I am done with this thread but the point I have just posted on another thread also comes into play.

To quote myself:
But, the whole premise of prices in NZ is a bit eschewed.

In simple business terms:
Wholesalers should theoretically be able to purchase items for the cost of the manufacturers price (which is the manufacturers cost plus a premium).
Retailers should theoretically be able to purchase items at the wholesalers price (which is the wholesalers cost plus a premium).
Consumers purchase at the retailers price (which is retailers cost plus a premium).

What we see time and time again is consumers being able to purchase, by importing, the EXACT same items for far less than the the local retail price.

This would allude to the retail/ wholesale margins being too high or just sloppy wholesale importing by wholesalers. But, if it was the later, the consumer generally doesn't see the flip side (reduced local cost versus import cost) where the wholesaler has imported at a favorable (versus present) exchange rate.

It's all a bunch of bull when it gets down to it. Something is amiss if the consumer can CONSISTENTLY import at a lower cost than the local retailer.

NZ exporters (which are mainly dairy) moan to fuck when the exchange rate goes against them and put up the price of butter/ milk etc in the local market to cover costs (as if it is somehow subsidising local prices, which is also bull but that is a side issue). But you never hear a word when a beneficial exchange rate movement goes in their favour.

Switch the positive and negatives around and you have wholesale importers.

What is truly happening is that NZ consumers are becoming savvy to the rort of wholesalers charging when they lose out but not discounting when they make gains. This is the true reason of why you are seeing more and more of the consumers bypassing both the local retailers/ wholesalers and sourcing direct either from the manufacturers or off-shore retailers.

For me the whole NZ retail/ wholesale model needs an overhaul or it will just fade away. I started another thread on trading hours and was quite simply amazed at the push back of industry people who (in my mind) are unable to grasp the concept of modern business practices.

End quote.

For this thread:

I have read the responses since my last post and have seen the continual push back from the bike industry people to them.

Here is a big heads up to the industry people - no-one is expecting rhyme and reason for your current business practices on a forum, your modern consumer types are openly questioning your historic business practices. if you truly believe that the (modern) consumer is not in line with your preferred business practice then you are leaving the door open to consumer imports and any future savvy new business start ups.

I got fed up before by crasher's response to Ixion's suggestions which I saw as an irrational response to constructive criticism. If the retail bike industry cannot handle constructive criticism then it is really FUCKED (for want of a better word).

SS90

18th March 2010, 01:50

To my mind, a plumber has even less time to screw around in a bike shop during the day when each hour not worked is an hour not earning. At least some lawyers work on salary. And salaried lawyers are less likely to be clock watched.

Never worked in sales have you?

Have you ever tried ASKING the "old boys" what time would suit them?

They don't complain. They respect that we are "working class" too

I would have thought that the ego driven lawyer would demand the latest models more often? Perhaps tehy jsut dont come back to YOUR shop for the second to the 12th bike...

Nope...... generally one big purchase (co-incided with their bonus for the year), but granted, their mates might be then inclined to purchase from you........that's sales...and every customer is just as important as the next.....

Keep making all the excuses you like. Motorbikes are for everyone now - from commuters to Hells Angels, chicks to kids, road bikes to MX, all ages all sizes, all attitudes. Some of them have no intention of buying into the poser HD lifestyle. some ofthem are in it, and want to be out.

Everyone....yes, but only one small, yet noisy group, no

You need to be there for all of them. Forging the relationships.

No disrespect intended, I just want to point out that the new breed of motorcyclists don't yet understand that just because they buy a $20,000 bike, doesn't mean the shop puts $20,000 in their pocket.....this isn't property development you know!

Crasherfromwayback

18th March 2010, 07:26

I got fed up before by crasher's response to Ixion's suggestions which I saw as an irrational response to constructive criticism. If the retail bike industry cannot handle constructive criticism then it is really FUCKED (for want of a better word).

The bit I don't agree with...is that the bike industry is not at all fucked. Not even in the slightest. We have dips and highs...but always have...and always will. Those doing it properly will always surive, and survive well.

SS90

18th March 2010, 07:42

The bit I don't agree with...is that the bike industry is not at all fucked. Not even in the slightest. We have dips and highs...but always have...and always will. Those doing it properly will always surive, and survive well.

I agree, I concede that the NZ industry needs to bring itself more in line with (some) customers expectations, however, I also feel there expectations need to be tempered with a little reality.

Margins are tight, longer (7 day weeks) have been tried, and we have seen time and time again that they don't work.

If it did, I assure you every managing director in the country will demand a 7 day week from their (increased) staff.

CFWB didn't "chose his words correctly", but, he got his point across.....some times it is a little hard to constantly be slagged (as a group), as has been done in this thread....that said, it does seem that a few people are writing clear intelligent points that we all should take note of (oh, from both sides of the coin, let's get that straight)

Eyegasm

18th March 2010, 08:25

Dear God, This thread has been going for way too long.......

......I wish this thread was Emo, then it would cut itself.

merv

18th March 2010, 12:04

Dear God, This thread has been going for way too long.......

......I wish this thread was Emo, then it would cut itself.

So why'd ya look at it then? God doesn't mind how long we talk about stuff does he?

Lurch

18th March 2010, 12:57

So why'd ya look at it then? God doesn't mind how long we talk about stuff does he?

God rains gravel on someones favourite corner every time this thread is posted in.

merv

18th March 2010, 14:45

God rains gravel on someones favourite corner every time this thread is posted in.

Great that will let Motu get sideways.

avgas

18th March 2010, 14:54

No, that's incorrect, that subject has been discussed to death....... I know 4 shops that tried it, and now all are back to 6 days, closed Sunday.

If it worked, it would happen.

The market dictates opening hours.

The end.
Consumers market, or employee's?
Not really slamming your argument - but don't want you to blatantly think that consumers do not exist outside operating hours (this whole argument).
Fact of the matter is I have walked into bike shops during the day (nothing gets me over sickness like motorbikes), and it has been a ghost town - the staff looked like they just wanted to go to sleep (and I don't blame them either).
So while I think you guys should work the usually 40 hours......why not have it as 2 shifts or something on 1 day......make yours and our lives easier.
Or even not open until 11am and close at 7pm?

SS90

19th March 2010, 00:52

Consumers market, or employee's?
Not really slamming your argument - but don't want you to blatantly think that consumers do not exist outside operating hours (this whole argument).
Fact of the matter is I have walked into bike shops during the day (nothing gets me over sickness like motorbikes), and it has been a ghost town - the staff looked like they just wanted to go to sleep (and I don't blame them either).
So while I think you guys should work the usually 40 hours......why not have it as 2 shifts or something on 1 day......make yours and our lives easier.
Or even not open until 11am and close at 7pm?

Simple mathematics......Paying double staff working half the time is not the same as paying half the staff working double the time.

Scorp

19th March 2010, 08:03

God rains gravel on someones favourite corner every time this thread is posted in.

Which god?

Maybe this one...

<a href="http://s404.photobucket.com/albums/pp124/inedifix/?action=view&current=Itztli.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i404.photobucket.com/albums/pp124/inedifix/Itztli.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

Itzli (http://www.azteccalendar.com/god/Itztli.html), the Aztec god of stone (so maybe gravel) and... erm sacrifice (ouch!).

onearmedbandit

19th March 2010, 08:32

Just been over in Melbourne, seems the busiest bike store right in the middle of town (www.peterstevens.com.au) adheres to this flawed business model as well, what with being closed on Sunday. Gee I wonder how they manage to stay open at all?

merv

19th March 2010, 11:26

Peter Stevens, open until 7pm Fridays during daylight saving - that'll help, and until 5pm Saturday.

Crasherfromwayback

19th March 2010, 12:01

Peter Stevens, open until 7pm Fridays during daylight saving - that'll help, and until 5pm Saturday.

But Merv...Melbourne has 3.5 million people to serve!

merv

19th March 2010, 12:08

But Merv...Melbourne has 3.5 million people to serve!

Yeah agreed, and they aren't the only shop on Elizabeth Street, and many year's ago I wrote a story of going to those shops, one to try and buy an accessory for LB's Ducati as she'd asked me to. WMMC is like heaven compared to what I ran into there, so Pete we really still aren't bagging you, but it is as shame there is always a reason for why we only get what we get in NZ.

FYI check that thread out here http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/39491-I-still-love-Melbourne-but!?

p.s. Carl looked after us pretty well as usual the other night at Motorad for our AGM.

R-Soul

19th March 2010, 12:11

But Merv...Melbourne has 3.5 million people to serve!

AND its in the middle of town....

Crasherfromwayback

19th March 2010, 12:13

Yeah agreed, and they aren't the only shop on Elizabeth Street, and many year's ago I wrote a story of going to those shops, one to try and buy an accessory for LB's Ducati as she'd asked me to. WMMC is like heaven compared to what I ran into there, so Pete we really still aren't bagging you, but it is as shame there is always a reason for why we only get what we get in NZ.

FYI check that thread out here http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/39491-I-still-love-Melbourne-but!?

p.s. Carl looked after us pretty well as usual the other night at Motorad for our AGM.

Didn't take it as a bagging Merv. And Carl is a good bloke.

dipshit

19th March 2010, 12:16

But Merv...Melbourne has 3.5 million people to serve!

Right. So why in NZ do even small towns have 3 or 4 bike shops?

Take Alexandra in central Otago for example. Population 4500 and yet they have 3 bike shops!

Does each major brand really need its own shop..??? Why not have ONE bigger shop that sells every make under one roof..???

What would the industry have against such an idea..???

scott411

19th March 2010, 12:25

the distributors in NZ do not allow any more than two jap franchises per shop, and Honda normally only allows themselves, (there has been a couple of exceptions over the years)

less so in Aussie, but in the US the big shops have all 4 jap franchises plus US or euro brands as well, except Harley who are lone franchise shops,

Crasherfromwayback

19th March 2010, 12:27

Right. So why in NZ do even small towns have 3 or 4 bike shops?

Take Alexandra in central Otago for example. Population 4500 and yet they have 3 bike shops!

Does each major brand really need its own shop..??? Why not have ONE bigger shop that sells every make under one roof..???

What would the industry have against such an idea..???

Rural dealers do well with quads etc, and for example...Honda won't let dealers have another Japanese francise share the showroom.

dipshit

19th March 2010, 12:38

less so in Aussie, but in the US the big shops have all 4 jap franchises plus US or euro brands as well

Figures. Could have guessed it is more the NZ arse-backward-as-fuck bike industry stuck in 1981 way of doing things.

dipshit

19th March 2010, 13:04

Honda won't let dealers have another Japanese francise share the showroom.

The way it looks from the outside - is that the importers and distributors are having too much influence over the retailers. They seem to be the ones running the show and keeping the status quo as if it is still 1980. Retailers seem to have little leeway oh how they can run their own shops. Someone in this very thread said "you don't want to piss your distributor off".

I wonder if a shop owner can even go take a dump without permission from the almighty distributor..??

Maybe the retail side need to grow some balls and start having a little more control over their own businesses.

Headbanger

19th March 2010, 13:12

Right. So why in NZ do even small towns have 3 or 4 bike shops?

Farmers.

You will also find each store probably have a crew who do nothing but visit farms and maintain the bikes/quads.

dipshit

19th March 2010, 13:26

Farmers.

Yes I realise that. But at the same time each of those 3 or 4 shops are small Dad and Dave outfits that seem to struggle along, can't afford to carry much stock, or be opened any longer than 9 to 5.

Amalgamating and concentrating that area's business into one bigger shop would be better for both the retailer and customers, yes?

A bit like... divided we fall, united we stand.

scott411

19th March 2010, 13:41

IdunBrokdItAgin

19th March 2010, 13:55

but NZ has the can do attitude and like to be self employed, i bet if you ask the owners if they would work for each other they would tell you to f off,

i can see your point, but i can see the point of the other side as well,

as for your comment about being back in the 80's, only the US seems to allow more than 2 franchises (i am unsure of japan) but aussie has one or two per dealerships, (although the chains own multiple shops with different brands in each) and europe is much like us,

the US market is so much larger than the rest of the world it makes its own rules,

I know that some have said that this thread has dragged on a bit long but it contains quite a lot of stuff that I didn't know when I started it. Even though it has had its highs and lows it is still pretty interesting reading.

For example I wasn't aware that the bike manufacturers dictate which brands they will share the showroom floor with. That makes sense of why there are so many bike shops, which keeps coming up as a reason for low customer volumes (per bike shop).

Seems to me like the distributors are running the show and keeping the many shop owners small so they can exert their influence over them. I take back some of my earlier critisms of the retailers if this is the case. Selling bikes seems to hinder the shop owner from taking certain actions due to the distributor rules. Yes yes I know big brush/ tar and all that but this summation is good enough for me.

However, I still think adjusting shop hours makes sense - no one is asking for sunday opening though.

The bike brand rules also adds to the rationale of an accesories/ parts retailer not linked to bike brands (such as cycletreads or motomail - if I am correct on these shops not being linked to bike brands).

scott411

19th March 2010, 14:02

i think your right, as with most industries there are things that sit below the surface that are not known about,

i have taken a bit from this discussion,

HenryDorsetCase

19th March 2010, 18:29

AND its in the middle of town....

and the last time I was there, there was a freakin' NorVin parked out front. Well next door. Well along the road a bit outside the Brit bike store just down the road towards southern cross. You want old school? that place is old school!!! So, uh, yeah.....

Ive had home made margaritas so have no point really

DJSin

19th March 2010, 18:32

Ive had home made margaritas so have no point really

Sweeeeeeet

jonbuoy

19th March 2010, 19:05

Yes I realise that. But at the same time each of those 3 or 4 shops are small Dad and Dave outfits that seem to struggle along, can't afford to carry much stock, or be opened any longer than 9 to 5.

Amalgamating and concentrating that area's business into one bigger shop would be better for both the retailer and customers, yes?

A bit like... divided we fall, united we stand.

You mean a monopoly and less competition? Not usually a good thing for joe public. Did a bike mechanic sleep with your wife or something? You seem to spend a huge amount of time venting your swollen spleen at the NZ motorcycle industry - why not open up a shop and show them how its done instead of slagging the industry off as a whole.

dipshit

19th March 2010, 19:36

You mean a monopoly and less competition? Not usually a good thing for joe public.

I think with the internet and the shop in the next town down the road would be enough to keep competition. I don't think having one big decent bike shop in a town instead of 3 or 4 small pokey ones would create that problem.

Crasherfromwayback

19th March 2010, 20:10

why not open up a shop and show them how its done instead of slagging the industry off as a whole.

My bet? Because they all earn a shitload more than we in the industry do...working less hours...with less stress. Oh...and they get to ride more often that we do too.

IdunBrokdItAgin

19th March 2010, 20:14

You mean a monopoly and less competition? Not usually a good thing for joe public. Did a bike mechanic sleep with your wife or something? You seem to spend a huge amount of time venting your swollen spleen at the NZ motorcycle industry - why not open up a shop and show them how its done instead of slagging the industry off as a whole.

I'm pretty much sure that the NZ bike retail industry doesn't operate as an oligopoly, despite my previous assumption around this.

This thread has been very enlightening. Even dipshit, who was extremely anti bike shop at the start of this thread, has started making constructive comments to the industry, to just refer to "girlfriends /mechanics etc" is not progressing the thread.

Sorry to be an arse, but this thread is really long as it is - without re-litigation of points. Get through all the pointless postings on this thread and you get a real insight into the NZ bike industry.

I honestly regretted starting this thread a couple of times. But now reading through it - it did what I wanted it to do , educate me on why things are the way they are. I think we have seen both sides of the original argument come to their own conclusions but I really think that the main posters have learnt something from the other sides point of view.

Crasherfromwayback

19th March 2010, 20:23

I honestly regretted starting this thread a couple of times. But now reading through it - it did what I wanted it to do , educate me on why things are the way they are. I think we have seen both sides of the original argument come to their own conclusions but I really think that the main posters have learnt something from the other sides point of view.

No...you needn't have ever regretted it. Don't know till you ask. But it's a funny old industry. Honestly...after 23 years, 5 different shops here and in Australia, I can tell you hand on heart we're enthusiasts just like you...we want to help. We're not rip off con artists, and we love bikes so much we wanna ride too. Often with you guys...our customers! So come on people...let us ride with you guys and gals on Sundays!

My last post on the subject I promise!

Pete

merv

19th March 2010, 20:25

Last post be damned. Any from your shop doing the CCA Pete? Its on Saturday so not so good if they are meant to be at work that day.

onearmedbandit

19th March 2010, 22:20

as for your comment about being back in the 80's, only the US seems to allow more than 2 franchises (i am unsure of japan) but aussie has one or two per dealerships, (although the chains own multiple shops with different brands in each) and europe is much like us,

the US market is so much larger than the rest of the world it makes its own rules,

Someone better tell these guys (http://www.peterstevens.com.au/) then, their Elizabeth St store held KTM, Hyosung, Kawasaki, Honda, Suzuki and MV all under the same roof.

Headbanger

19th March 2010, 22:23

Someone better tell these guys (http://www.peterstevens.com.au/) then, their Elizabeth St store held KTM, Hyosung, Kawasaki, Honda, Suzuki and MV all under the same roof.

Sweet as, I emailed them.

Robert Taylor

20th March 2010, 09:29

Someone better tell these guys (http://www.peterstevens.com.au/) then, their Elizabeth St store held KTM, Hyosung, Kawasaki, Honda, Suzuki and MV all under the same roof.

Four of those brands will drive the mechanics to drink with lots of stupid problems and warranty claims, only two are worth having.

Quasievil

20th March 2010, 12:35

Four of those brands will drive the mechanics to drink with lots of stupid problems and warranty claims, only two are worth having.

Yeah KTM and Kawasaki.

BMWST?

20th March 2010, 14:33

Right. So why in NZ do even small towns have 3 or 4 bike shops?

Take Alexandra in central Otago for example. Population 4500 and yet they have 3 bike shops!

Does each major brand really need its own shop..??? Why not have ONE bigger shop that sells every make under one roof..???

What would the industry have against such an idea..???

i wonder why that has rarely happened in NZ?its not the bloke selling the bikes either!

BMWST?

20th March 2010, 14:35

to add fuel to the fire.i discoverd a very similar business model today.tyre shops.How on earth do you guys mange to get tyres for your car(s)

Viscount Montgomery

20th March 2010, 17:45

There are some good shrinks that attend to anger management issues...................

He He, the only one angry here is you Taylor, it's because the Viscount Montgomery bowled you off the strutting pompous 'I know everything' high-horse you'd been building for yourself here for so long. Don't be so sulky. You shouldn't be angry, you should be grateful, now you're starting to come down to earth and starting to ditch all your snooty self-righteousness, you should be chilling and finding things a lot easier than before.

Am I right? Yes, you know I am. But don't expect any more free favors from me. BTW, I got my spring in the end, hyperco, NZ$112 delivered, beats the fucking hell out of over $300 from your shifty racetech lot don't you think?

To Crasherfromwayback, you sound like another one wrapped-up in your own self-importance too, hostile and indignant, how dare anyone criticize the bikeshops eh? The special people such as yourselves should be beyond reproach at all times. My god, the ignorant plebs like me should know their station in life shouldn't they.

So if you've got something to say next time, why don't you try talking straight to whoever you're addressing. Beats a snivelly comment to someone else sneering with you on the side, someone who you know will hold your hand, cuddle up and comfort you with safety in numbers. The terrible nasty Viscount montgomery a bit too much for you to handle on your own huh? LOL

PS Cheer up the pair of you, life's way too short to be pissing your panties on internet forums

sidecar bob

20th March 2010, 17:51

What a broken arse. You need a better paying job, (thats if your meagre intelligence is capable of it) so you stop complaining about the difference of a couple of bucks.
If you were as smart as you are trying to portray yourself, your earnings would be such, that you would be far more interested in getting the job done properly, than a few measly bucks.
You seem really upset about someone making a living. By my calculations that probably makes you a Draughtsman or Architecht.
He He, the only one angry here is you Taylor, it's because the Viscount Montgomery bowled you off the strutting pompous 'I know everything' high-horse you'd been building for yourself here for so long. Don't be so sulky. You shouldn't be angry, you should be grateful, now you're starting to come down to earth and starting to ditch all your snooty self-righteousness, you should be chilling and finding things a lot easier than before.

Am I right? Yes, you know I am. But don't expect any more free favors from me. BTW, I got my spring in the end, hyperco, NZ$112 delivered, beats the fucking hell out of over $300 from your shifty racetech lot don't you think?

To Crasherfromwayback, you sound like another one wrapped-up in your own self-importance too, hostile and indignant, how dare anyone criticize the bikeshops eh? The special people such as yourselves should be beyond reproach at all times. My god, the ignorant plebs like me should know their station in life shouldn't they.

So if you've got something to say next time, why don't you try talking straight to whoever you're addressing. Beats a snivelly comment to someone else sneering with you on the side, someone who you know will hold your hand, cuddle up and comfort you with safety in numbers. The terrible nasty Viscount montgomery a bit too much for you to handle on your own huh? LOL

PS Cheer up the pair of you, life's way too short to be pissing your panties on internet forums

Quasievil

20th March 2010, 17:54

Sat 6.53pm just seen the last customer.............cheers Pumba !!

Ixion

20th March 2010, 17:56

to add fuel to the fire.i discoverd a very similar business model today.tyre shops.How on earth do you guys mange to get tyres for your car(s)

Drury Tyres stock motorcycle and car tyres (and organise rides!). They have a 24 hour call out service, and are open all day Satirday (I htink - well into the afternoon, anyway). They also do online quotes.

Rowes Tyres stock car and ike tyres, they are open 7 days a week, and you can order over the internet and they will ship to you.

And Cycletreads are open 7 days a week.

No doubt there are others, those are just the ones I use.

But, it's all good. We are assured that the bike shops are all creaming it, raking in the coin, and won't be at all affected if we order stuff off the net . So, we will. And everybody's happy.

fuknKIWI

20th March 2010, 18:10

oh I forgot we are talking about the third world here,,,

New Zealand my favorite third world country.:love:

Kickaha

20th March 2010, 19:01

to add fuel to the fire.i discoverd a very similar business model today.tyre shops.How on earth do you guys mange to get tyres for your car(s)

Tyre shops have been there and done that and also found it doesn't work to open either 7 days or late nights or late Saturday (at least down here anyway)

SS90

21st March 2010, 01:11

Sat 6.53pm just seen the last customer.............cheers Pumba !!

If I may be so bold there Quasi, and if I am being too nosey, just say so, but perhaps we could use you as a "for instance"

I don't know your business model, but I was told a few months back that you have "job", and the gear business is secondary income (If I am wrong here, I appologise)

So, I was just wondering if you would be able to give an indication of your turnover for Saturday.

Basing my (maybe incorrect) belief that your overheads are therefore lower (your wife and yourself as the staff?), and a small showroom that is "open by appointment"..........

I applaud your business ethic, but, I was just trying to bring up the argument that if your shop was a 6 day week, several employee operation, then you would HIGHLY unlikely to be open at such a time on Saturday, due to the high costs assosiated with such an operation.

The reason I wondered what your Saturday turnover was, because I would like to know if you could justify having 3 staff members on for the whole Saturday, and that their wages (and all other costs) would be met from the turnover, let alone "something left over"

In a small operation such as yours (I am going to refer to it as a "Mom & Pop" operation, that's no insult by the way), which is generally only staffed by the directors (you and your wife for example) costs are significantly lower than in "more expansive operations" (involving several staff, all working full time), enabling like, the example you gave, extreme opening hours.

SS90

21st March 2010, 01:15

He He, the only one angry here is you Taylor, it's because the Viscount Montgomery bowled you off the strutting pompous 'I know everything' high-horse you'd been building for yourself here for so long. Don't be so sulky. You shouldn't be angry, you should be grateful, now you're starting to come down to earth and starting to ditch all your snooty self-righteousness, you should be chilling and finding things a lot easier than before.

Am I right? Yes, you know I am. But don't expect any more free favors from me. BTW, I got my spring in the end, hyperco, NZ$112 delivered, beats the fucking hell out of over $300 from your shifty racetech lot don't you think?

To Crasherfromwayback, you sound like another one wrapped-up in your own self-importance too, hostile and indignant, how dare anyone criticize the bikeshops eh? The special people such as yourselves should be beyond reproach at all times. My god, the ignorant plebs like me should know their station in life shouldn't they.

So if you've got something to say next time, why don't you try talking straight to whoever you're addressing. Beats a snivelly comment to someone else sneering with you on the side, someone who you know will hold your hand, cuddle up and comfort you with safety in numbers. The terrible nasty Viscount montgomery a bit too much for you to handle on your own huh? LOL

PS Cheer up the pair of you, life's way too short to be pissing your panties on internet forums
:mellow:....................

SS90

21st March 2010, 01:17

Four of those brands will drive the mechanics to drink with lots of stupid problems and warranty claims, only two are worth having.

Yes, Hyosung and Gilera are fantastic brands.

SS90

21st March 2010, 01:55

Drury Tyres stock motorcycle and car tyres (and organise rides!). They have a 24 hour call out service, and are open all day Satirday (I htink - well into the afternoon, anyway). They also do online quotes.

Rowes Tyres stock car and ike tyres, they are open 7 days a week, and you can order over the internet and they will ship to you.

And Cycletreads are open 7 days a week.
No doubt there are others, those are just the ones I use.

But, it's all good. We are assured that the bike shops are all creaming it, raking in the coin, and won't be at all affected if we order stuff off the net . So, we will. And everybody's happy.

But Ixion, 2 or the 3 examples you gave cater to cars as well. Their market is many times bigger than the bike market alone.

Ask the owners what their turnover is on the bike tyres alone from 2pm Saturday till 6pm Sunday.... I will wager than it is not enough to pay the rent, let alone the staff for those days.

This is why only 1 bike shop does it (Cycletreads)...infact, if another tyre shop was to open up across the road from Cycletreads on Sunday, neither would survive (assuming that sales where then halved).

You see what I mean?

Bike tyres for shops like that are simply "add ons" to the usual business (which is car tyres)

Quasievil

21st March 2010, 08:20

If I may be so bold there Quasi, and if I am being too nosey, just say so, but perhaps we could use you as a "for instance"

I don't know your business model, but I was told a few months back that you have "job", and the gear business is secondary income (If I am wrong here, I appologise)

So, I was just wondering if you would be able to give an indication of your turnover for Saturday.

Basing my (maybe incorrect) belief that your overheads are therefore lower (your wife and yourself as the staff?), and a small showroom that is "open by appointment"..........

I applaud your business ethic, but, I was just trying to bring up the argument that if your shop was a 6 day week, several employee operation, then you would HIGHLY unlikely to be open at such a time on Saturday, due to the high costs assosiated with such an operation.

The reason I wondered what your Saturday turnover was, because I would like to know if you could justify having 3 staff members on for the whole Saturday, and that their wages (and all other costs) would be met from the turnover, let alone "something left over"

In a small operation such as yours (I am going to refer to it as a "Mom & Pop" operation, that's no insult by the way), which is generally only staffed by the directors (you and your wife for example) costs are significantly lower than in "more expansive operations" (involving several staff, all working full time), enabling like, the example you gave, extreme opening hours.

lol yes to all of that, this was a dig at DUMTED I mean DMNTD (me mate) was having a laugh about it on Friday at Mt eden m/c.

Ixion

21st March 2010, 09:49

But Ixion, 2 or the 3 examples you gave cater to cars as well. Their market is many times bigger than the bike market alone.

Ask the owners what their turnover is on the bike tyres alone from 2pm Saturday till 6pm Sunday.... I will wager than it is not enough to pay the rent, let alone the staff for those days.

This is why only 1 bike shop does it (Cycletreads)...infact, if another tyre shop was to open up across the road from Cycletreads on Sunday, neither would survive (assuming that sales where then halved).

You see what I mean?

Bike tyres for shops like that are simply "add ons" to the usual business (which is car tyres)

It was a response to Mr BMWST's question 'where do you get your (car) tyres from'. There are other car tyre places, I just know the ones involved with bikes.

But the real point is, I don't care if they do bike tyres as well as car ones. Rowes is bike tyres as an add on to cars, Drury is other way round (they are Redeemed,have hire bikes sprockets and stuff good people). I just want a tyre, I don't care where it comes from.

I think this is the way it will all go in the future. Tyre shops will take over bike tyres, bike gear will move to sports gear shops like Rebel sport, basically bike shops will disappear. Not next year, but maybe 10 years

scott411

21st March 2010, 13:38

Drury Tires is not open sundays btw

Robert Taylor

21st March 2010, 14:58

Robert Taylor

21st March 2010, 15:00

Yes, Hyosung and Gilera are fantastic brands.

I love your sense of humour!

SS90

22nd March 2010, 00:25

I think this is the way it will all go in the future. Tyre shops will take over bike tyres, bike gear will move to sports gear shops like Rebel sport, basically bike shops will disappear. Not next year, but maybe 10 years

You may well be right Ixion, and we may well see more and more car tyre shop diversifying, for the simple fact, that, has you have demonstrated, there is a market forming that want to be able to purchase some items on Sunday, and, since they are already able to justify opening 7 days, why not stock bike tyres.

Experience tells me that the majority of the motorcyclists will prefer to stay with "specialists" as far as motorcycles goes, but, yes, I thik it will happen more and more.

It's up to the wholesalers though, I have noticed a shift towards some dealers supplying "non motorcycle shops" with stock, but, my experience is that if the (exsisting) bike shops put pressure on the wholeslaers NOT to supply "non industry" shops, then it is less likely.

It's again about turnover, if the wholesalers don't see that supplying "non industry" shops as increasing sales (and infact, only spreading the same amount of business over more shops, involving more work for the reps, for the same money, then it won't happen.

I woould expect to see more shops carrying tyres, perhaps, but the market dictates business models, and while I see changes to the industry in the furture, this I don't see as a reality.

10 years ago I remember there was strong suggestions that WOF will only be doe in VINZ stations, and no longer in bike shops etc, from what I learned (I used to do WOF), there was too much problems with non specialist testers (i.e testing station employees are by in large ex car mechanics, and have little experience with bikes) failing bikes because they didn't understand the differences between cars and bikes.

One example that was brought to my attention was when a testing station inspector failed (and refused to take advise) a Harley Davisdon front wheel bearings......and any one will knnow that up until 2001, wheel bearings on Harley's where taped bearings, requiring 0.2mm play.

The tester did not know this, and insisted it needed new wheel bearings.

What faith does a customer have when the tester himself is as far away from being a "specialist" as can be!

Swoop

22nd March 2010, 07:25

SS90

22nd March 2010, 08:33

Well it appears that Sunday afternoons can be worthwhile.
Popped into Cycletreads and the tyre guys were flat out! All hoists in action and a queue of bikers standing around for their turn to get new rubber fitted.
Upstairs there were a few having coffee and another handful looking at stuff around the shop.
I purchased what I needed and booked in for tyres during the week. I hate queues.

Nice work guys!

Clearly, the market (motorcycle tyres,) in NZ most densely populated city, (over 1 million), has enough business to open Sunday. Good for them.

What would happen if say, 2 more tyre shops specialising in motorcycle tyres where to open in Auckland?

Swoop

22nd March 2010, 09:36

What would happen if say, 2 more tyre shops specialising in motorcycle tyres where to open in Auckland?
I would be able to get tyres fitted "then and there" without having to wait!:yes: (Let's hope that we get to that stage. More riders = more bikes = more bike related shops/services).

Scorp

22nd March 2010, 10:04

Hmm, I reckon, on balance, that half day opening on Sunday is better than none at all. And bike shop workers deserve weekends too.

Mind you, I took my BHS test yesterday (Sunday) morning, and the first thing I did afterwards was check out the bike shops in Tauranga. All shut except for Moto GB, a Suzuki dealer. I went in and had a good look at their second hand 250s and a really good look at their row of brand new Intruders. While I did this, for about 10 minutes, a family was looking at trial bikes. There were about 3 or 4 staff in their offices doing nothing. None of them came anywhere near me or the family looking a trial bikes.

So I guess there's, 'being open' on Sunday, and then there's 'being open for business' on Sunday.

avgas

22nd March 2010, 10:59

huh I thought this thread was dead. Certain bikeshop members blatantly said they won't work weekends (for various reasons).....and certain customers said they were being cheated.
If you were the latter, and still lingering here - move on. At the end of the day it is the shops management who decides when a bike shop opens, just like they decide what they stock - if you still bitter about it, go find a competitor and buy from them. Don't feel you have to educate the bike shops, as they clearly don't want to hear from you.
I ended up buying some stuff last week, Got a lovely KBC VR-1X from HODGED Customs......he not only said he could order one in for me and send it up before the week was done, but did it at about 15% cheaper than any of my local shops (which were closed on a sunday).
It did not required me to drive around anywhere, and they were true to their words. Admittedly I had spend a good half-a-day (summed) of trying the various helmets in the past to know what I wanted.......but with the convenience I probably would have paid the extra 15% or more.
Likewise workmate has just got a whole lot of goodies for his 10' CBR1K from e-bay....... at half the price of local.....'after-hours'
So if you really feel bitter about bikeshops not being open - go elsewhere and stop harassing the guys here.

R-Soul

22nd March 2010, 12:13

New Zealand my favorite third world country.:love:

nah mate- dont be like that about third world countries- even South Africa has bike shops open 7 days a week. But thats just because labour is cheap....

R-Soul

22nd March 2010, 12:20

how about a business model where oyou are ONLy open on weekends, but have boatloads of salesmen in on weekends and sell as much over that timeframe as you would do during the week. And a minimal margin, to encourage even people who are available on weekdays to come in on weekends? And run an internet business only during the week, which can sell at reduced prices because not so many wages to pay during the week.

Has anybody ever tried this business model?

Robert Taylor

22nd March 2010, 17:02

JimO

22nd March 2010, 17:08

who wants to work sundays, i dont even want to work monday to friday

JATZ

22nd March 2010, 17:37

who wants to work sundays, i dont even want to work monday to friday

Amen to that brother :niceone:

I buy almost everything from local shops, even if I have to go to Nelson, 100k + round trip, Only stuff I get online is stuff they would have to get from Japan, quicker for me to get it from Europe, or they can't get it
They don't need to open Sundays for me, cause I prolly out riding on a bike I got sorted during the week

SS90

22nd March 2010, 22:33

Amen to that brother :niceone:

I buy almost everything from local shops, even if I have to go to Nelson, 100k + round trip, Only stuff I get online is stuff they would have to get from Japan, quicker for me to get it from Europe, or they can't get it
They don't need to open Sundays for me, cause I prolly out riding on a bike I got sorted during the week

I like how you point out that you only get on-line, things that your dealer would have to get "on-line"....that's fair, I feel that in the future, shops will have larger range of stock in their inventory if they want to compete, although, prices may be a bit higher to off set the extra costs, but from what I read most people are happy to pay a premium.

Brian d marge

23rd March 2010, 01:51

well can add to this thread , hopefully it isnt to late
Just came from the suit shop, its that time of year again ! one suit and they threw in a summer jacket , half price ( you think riding gear is expensive ....you possibly could by 2 real nice riding jackets for the price of one suit )

anyway Ixion was right, the nice lady was never intrusive , waited attentively, allowing us to pick and choose , and we went back to the first choice
when we decided on the suit she offer a summer jacket for half price and a tie of course

we then went to the electric shiop looking for air conditioning machines and washing machines , and lo and behold they are selling electric scooters ( chinese my guess ) which dont look half bad and very attractivly priced ... very

Then took the kids out for an Chicken Vindictive.... ( teach em to be noisy !)

all in all we were very happily relieved of a large sum of money by some very nice sales people ( and more and likely will do it again )
Stephen

ps I like my job , and very happy to do it on Sundays as I have said , ( today I took the laptop to the park and worked away while the kids were playing , a very pleasant day at work , )

SS90

23rd March 2010, 06:08

scott411

23rd March 2010, 06:24

ps I like my job , and very happy to do it on Sundays as I have said , ( today I took the laptop to the park and worked away while the kids were playing , a very pleasant day at work , )

I love my job to, this sunday i get to lead a trail ride of approx 500 people out though some awesome scenery to a west coast beach, while raising money for a small rural school, its pretty good,

if i had to sit in a shop in Pukekohe i probably would not enjoy it so much, much like if you were stuck in an office last sunday,

onearmedbandit

23rd March 2010, 08:28

ps I like my job , and very happy to do it on Sundays as I have said , ( today I took the laptop to the park and worked away while the kids were playing , a very pleasant day at work , )

That has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with sitting in a bike shop on a great sunday talking to no one while everyone else is out riding, or spending time with the kids down at the park...

Brian d marge

23rd March 2010, 11:10

Steven, none of the examples you have given (suit purchasing, and appliance shopping) are even remotely comparable to the Motorcycle industry in New Zealand..... or anywhere else in the world for that matter.
Why?
The sales techniques are transferable . if you think they are not , good luck

I honestly do not care

at he end of the day its my money and my time. ,,, and ultimately my business

you ' (the bike shops) are very welcome to my money IF I can purchase ( which is what I AM DOING ) the service / product at the right price / right time/ right place

what ever reasons you want to give are fine , they are YOUR opinions and have nothing to do with MY money

Stephen

Ps and a silk scarf is was ? oh and The appliance was A MOTORCYCLE the electric shop is selling MOTORCYCLES

has I think quite a lot to do with the thread about motorcycle shops I think!

Brian d marge

23rd March 2010, 11:29

That has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with sitting in a bike shop on a great sunday talking to no one while everyone else is out riding, or spending time with the kids down at the park...

See Scotts reply

Sometimes I dread the office but overall , i wouldn't change it
If Running a bike shop is what you chose to do , then HTFU or don't do it , As I have said before , been in the MC game for many a year , quite happy to sit in a shop on a Sunday, or any other time/ day been there done that , could do it again ( probably may even do it again )

What makes Sunday any different from the rest of the week ,apart from some Protestant reformist a few years ago decided that it was a day of worship)

I am not belittling your decision not to work Sundays or any other day/time for that matter . but as I pointed out to SS90 Right product . right place . right time my money your call

Stephen

Brian d marge

23rd March 2010, 11:56

http://driverst (http://driverstand.com/tenpo/top/link/index4.html)and.com/tenpo/top/link/index4.html (http://driverstand.com/tenpo/top/link/index4.html)

Sorry may I just add this , 201576 (http://driverstand.com/tenpo/top/link/index4.html)

Just out of interest this is my local big chain shop , where i can buy tyres and jacket ( of which they do have some very smart summer gear in ,,,)
There is always one knowledgeable staff on call and yes I know the size of the market , but this is an example of what others are used to ,

Stephen

merv

23rd March 2010, 12:10

Steven, none of the examples you have given (suit purchasing, and appliance shopping) are even remotely comparable to the Motorcycle industry in New Zealand..... or anywhere else in the world for that matter.

Haha that's the point he's trying to make and guys like you just keep saying its not comparable and he's trying to say "why not, when are you going to try a different business model to relieve more people of their money and make the business more profitable?" The industry is being offered a wealth of free advice from punters with money on this thread and you keep rejecting suggestions which is basically saying "no, don't want your money".

No skin off my nose I'll keep spending it on overseas trips like I do.

SS90

23rd March 2010, 22:18

Haha that's the point he's trying to make and guys like you just keep saying its not comparable and he's trying to say "why not, when are you going to try a different business model to relieve more people of their money and make the business more profitable?" The industry is being offered a wealth of free advice from punters with money on this thread and you keep rejecting suggestions which is basically saying "no, don't want your money".

No skin off my nose I'll keep spending it on overseas trips like I do.

No Merv, I am just trying to point out that to compare any other business model to the NZ bike industry is impossible.

Steven say's he "worked last sunday", while, at the same time, watched his kids play in a park in Tokyo.

How the hell does that relate to working in a bike shop in Upper Hutt? (or anywhere else in NZ for that matter?)

You can't work in a bike shop while watching your kids play.

If this parallel universe actually exsisted, I assure you, bike shops wold be more likely to open Sunday's (while it's workers sat in a park in Tokyo, watching their kids play, and sold bike and accessories to customers using their laptops.

Tui Moment.

merv

23rd March 2010, 22:45

SS90

23rd March 2010, 23:41

http://driverst (http://driverstand.com/tenpo/top/link/index4.html)and.com/tenpo/top/link/index4.html (http://driverstand.com/tenpo/top/link/index4.html)

sorry may i just add this , 201576 (http://driverstand.com/tenpo/top/link/index4.html)

just out of interest this is my local big chain shop , where i can buy tyres and jacket ( of which they do have some very smart summer gear in ,,,)
there is always one knowledgeable staff on call and yes i know the size of the market , but this is an example of what others are used to ,

stephen

wtf?.........

SS90

23rd March 2010, 23:53

... haha again, you are right the business models don't compare now, but the point is they never will be if you keep your head in the sand and keep saying oh they are different so the point isn't relevant. What the posts on here are saying is the point is relevant in that you need to sharpen up and try something different like the rest of the world is, otherwise Upper Hutt will always be Upper Hutt as it is today gawd help us.

Anything that Stephen is mentioning could be done in NZ if you wanted to try it.

If everyone had an attitude like yours nothing would change - we would never have had drive in Maccas or pizza delivery, or ATM machines or cell phones if people decades ago had said you can't do that in NZ because "How the hell does that relate to ............ Upper Hutt? .... when back in 1970 for example none of that existed in Upper Hutt.

You wouldn't have drunk Tui either as they probably didn't "import" it to Upper Hutt then - everyone drunk there own local brand and now the brands have gone National.

This thread started with one person asking about Sundays and I for one said I'm not too worried about that as evenings would suit me. The real crux of the matter is responsiveness to customers all of whom are different. Don't keep telling us we can't have it because its just not done like that here in NZ. Else we keep saying, oh you don't want our money then. Who wins? Not the shops, as our bank balances stay topped up because we buy nothing from the shop, or we spend it somewhere else.

Merv, I live in Austria, before that, 3 years in Germany, before that London, before that Dublin.

All those places, except London (even then about 10% of the shops open Sunday, and the company I worked for certainly did not open Sunday) don't have bike shops open Sunday.

about 50% have half day Saturday.

Where is your "something different like the rest of the world" ?

New Zealand is with the majority of the world regarding opening hours.

The only place I have spent any reasonable amount of time (being work trips, so that I actually deal with local companies, that HAS been open odd hours os Tokyo.

The Wayno (sp) district, 10 years ago was amazing, full of accessory and bike shops, open seemingly endless hours.

December 09, what a waste of time.

20% of the shops where still there, all stocking the same shit, and at 7PM on a Friday, bugger all people there, and when I enquired, it came to light that because the market had changed as far as bikes where concerened, the shops had to cut staff, but beacause the market has established itself as a "open all hours market", even with drastically reduced turnover, the poor shops had to remain open the same hours, with reduced staff, just to stay above water.

Tokyo has 13 million people............ even if only 10% of the population rides bikes of some sort (assure you it is ore like 30%, perhaps 50% ) that is a drastically bigger market than NZ, think about that for a second, more people in Tokyo ride scooters, than there are people in all New Zealand.

So, going by my experience, if a big city like that can't flourish with great opening hours to suit everyone, how can NZ?