Bucket rules (or lack, thereof)?

[bogan]

How's this ?

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Parts-for-sale/Complete-engines/auction-369311253.htm

On the Norton race bike, we have Amal size 700s on there. It's just a 500cc motor hahaha, ludicrous..

That looks like it, cheap too, pity he doesn't have any 42 slow jets, I am suspicious that mine might be a bit worn... what the hell is a size 700? obviously not the same scale as what I use or it'd be 7mm diameter!

[gatch]

That looks like it, cheap too, pity he doesn't have any 42 slow jets, I am suspicious that mine might be a bit worn... what the hell is a size 700? obviously not the same scale as what I use or it'd be 7mm diameter!

Did you check his other listings, I do remember seeing slow jets mentioned..

I don't know how the amal jets are sized. But you wouldn't need to worry about them blocking unless you happened to pour gravel into your tank..

[bogan]

Did you check his other listings, I do remember seeing slow jets mentioned..

I don't know how the amal jets are sized. But you wouldn't need to worry about them blocking unless you happened to pour gravel into your tank..

:lol:

yeh he has a 40 and 45 no 42 though, think I've compensated good enough with the needle anyway...

[Bert]

WELL.

It runs.

You can buy keihin jets off trade me for $7 each, so I may order a selection.. Unless someone in palmy has a few lying about ???


If you want to try a few sizes give me a yell.

[gatch]

If you want to try a few sizes give me a yell.

Yes, please. Desperately.

PM'd

[gatch]

So there is a few smalls things left to do. Still need to run engine in and figure out some jetting etc, but with finishing work late, I'll be left with friday only..

Make a few tiny spacers, drill out a seized screw, bleed brakes (again), the front brake is still spongy as hell, can't do the back till I get a reservoir sorted.

Replace a few nuts with nylocs, wire in kill switch. etc etc.

Still need to bribe someone for some transport.. hint hint

[gatch]

Soo where there used to be spark now there is none.

I am at total loss as to why, connectors are tight, though I'll have another look tomorrow. It is well earthed. Essentially nothing has changed since I had the motor running, except the spark has vanished like a fart in the wind.

Cock of a thing.

[bogan]

Soo where there used to be spark now there is none.

I am at total loss as to why, connectors are tight, though I'll have another look tomorrow. It is well earthed. Essentially nothing has changed since I had the motor running, except the spark has vanished like a fart in the wind.

Cock of a thing.

but on the plus side, your electrical system as about 4 things, can't be too hard to fix :yes: and maybe the same problem stopped it uning good before :sunny:

[gatch]

but on the plus side, your electrical system as about 4 things, can't be too hard to fix :yes: and maybe the same problem stopped it uning good before :sunny:

Got it to go now. The issue I currently have is I'm not able to make it rev past about 3.5-4k. It just bogs and backfires like fuck, bigger/smaller jet seems to have no effect, advanced and retarded points a few deg and no change, changed needle heights, no change.

Something is fundamentally wrong here.

[Yow Ling]

the fundamental problem is its not a FXR, which never act up like your engine

[speedpro]

Old fuel, blockages in the carb, screwed plug. All things I would look at.

[gatch]

Old fuel, blockages in the carb, screwed plug. All things I would look at.

New fuel, new plug, new carb..

Still scratching my head.

[TZ350]

My money is on an ignition electrical fault that breaks down under load, ( like 4-5k rpm & part throttle).

First bet, Points Capacitor.

Next check the kill switch and wire for a partial short, or a switch where the button spring bounces with vibration and intermitantly kills the spark, happened on TZ's.

Then if thats not it, try running it at night and in the garage where its realy dark and look for a spark jumping somewhere. Have a friend help look too.

It could be breaking down inside the coil or stator. Thats not so easy to see but if you have a small transistor radio handy, you can hear the hidden spark clicking on the radio.

If the points cam does not have a small piece of oil soaked felt rubbing on it then the cam needs a very light smear of grease or the heal of the points will wear down quickly and close the points gap, might be why you saw dust inside the points cover.

I have also had problems in the past with the little insulating washers that fasten the coil wire to the points breaking down and there is the traditional problem with the points capacitor packing up, try replacing it, there is no majic about them, a car one will do or radio noise suppressor might work. A new points capacitor can be fitted at the points or the points side of the coil.

If none of that works, it could be a broken wire, if thats the case the break will most likely be near a lug, try pulling the ends of the wires and see if anything comes apart.

[koba]

could just be a bad earth on the coil too...

[gatch]

My money is on an ignition electrical fault that breaks down under load, ( like 4-5k rpm & part throttle).

First bet, Points Capacitor.

Next check the kill switch and wire for a partial short, or a switch where the button spring bounces with vibration and intermitantly kills the spark, happened on TZ's.

Then if thats not it, try running it at night and in the garage where its realy dark and look for a spark jumping somewhere. Have a friend help look too.

It could be breaking down inside the coil or stator. Thats not so easy to see but if you have a small transistor radio handy, you can hear the hidden spark clicking on the radio.

If the points cam does not have a small piece of oil soaked felt rubbing on it then the cam needs a very light smear of grease or the heal of the points will wear down quickly and close the points gap, might be why you saw dust inside the points cover.

I have also had problems in the past with the little insulating washers that fasten the coil wire to the points breaking down and there is the traditional problem with the points capacitor packing up, try replacing it, there is no majic about them, a car one will do or radio noise suppressor might work. A new points capacitor can be fitted at the points or the points side of the coil.

If none of that works, it could be a broken wire, if thats the case the break will most likely be near a lug, try pulling the ends of the wires and see if anything comes apart.


The condenser breaking down sounds quite plausible, on further discussion with the motorcycling mcgyver, he thinks so too. This is now this weekends mission.


could just be a bad earth on the coil too...

I have made triple sure everything is earthed to everything else. My arm earthed to nose, nuts to leg, etc etc.

[gatch]

Also, this is how it looks right now.

237425

Pipe is too loud.. Need to make silencer. Sounds like an Iroquois helicopter flying right over head as it is..

[gatch]

So.

Saturday afternoon my motorcycle Mcgyver friend Chris had a go at my GL/spada. Turns out, there was more to the timing than meets the eye. The little lobe on the end of the cam was worn and not sitting properly in the slot on the back of the points cam/rotor. So every time I attempted to start the bike, the cam would move a little and the points wouldn't.

With judicious use of a file and some emery/wet and dry, we cleaned up the scarred surfaces and reassembled. Tried to start it.

Voila. Brum brum.

Starts fairly easy every time. This makes me very very very happy. I am glad that it was not a major mechanical issue and that it was a relatively simple fix. The negative side is now I have a whole raft of minor issues to look at. It is running far too lean with loud open pipe. Even with a much bigger jet over standard. So a silencer is a must. Then get the stock carb back on and have a go at jetting it. Then there is the suspension to tune and brakes to uprate..

But it runs :woohoo:

[TZ350]

Voila. Brum brum.
Starts fairly easy every time. This makes me very very very happy. :woohoo:

Hi Gatch, great work, glad to hear its now a runner.

[F5 Dave]

caliper clean up & some new pads. Those Honda era brakes are really good.

& yes a silencer is required or we'll get kicked off tracks.

[gatch]

caliper clean up & some new pads. Those Honda era brakes are really good.

& yes a silencer is required or we'll get kicked off tracks.

I ground the disc flat a while back, new pads will be a cinch, getting a hydraulic line made.. Going to try make a silencer out of some ally pipe, I'll turn up some caps for the ends, get some perf tube or roll some heavy mesh for a core and smash some steel wool in there.

Any better ideas ? (that involves minimal transfer of legal tender)

[bogan]

I ground the disc flat a while back, new pads will be a cinch, getting a hydraulic line made.. Going to try make a silencer out of some ally pipe, I'll turn up some caps for the ends, get some perf tube or roll some heavy mesh for a core and smash some steel wool in there.

Any better ideas ? (that involves minimal transfer of legal tender)

I have about 400mm of 38mm perf tube left over from my muffler if ya want that? bout 2.5mm thick so not lightweight racing though.

[gatch]

I went to "2 wheels engineering" here in palmy to see if they had any ali tube (as I heard they were bike friendly :innocent:). The man there gave me a bit of 75mm tube about 400 long for the wicked price of "a pack of chocolate biscuits". So big ups to 2 wheels. Cheers fellas.


I have about 400mm of 38mm perf tube left over from my muffler if ya want that? bout 2.5mm thick so not lightweight racing though.

Cheers for the offer man, but I found some 1mm perf sheet at work. The holes are about 8mm sq, so all good and light. I rolled a bit around some 32mm bar and tig'd the seam. Will use woven fibreglass for the packing as it will take a while to fall to bits and shoot out the end. Should even look the part when its all riveted together.

[speedpro]

I went to "2 wheels engineering" here in palmy to see if they had any ali tube (as I heard they were bike friendly :innocent:). The man there gave me a bit of 75mm tube about 400 long for the wicked price of "a pack of chocolate biscuits". So big ups to 2 wheels. Cheers fellas.

The main man there is Colin Wheeler, ex Air force, used to race buckets himself and had a trick hub centre steering bucket with a Kawasaki 100 engine. Built the whole lot himself.

[bogan]

I went to "2 wheels engineering" here in palmy to see if they had any ali tube (as I heard they were bike friendly :innocent:). The man there gave me a bit of 75mm tube about 400 long for the wicked price of "a pack of chocolate biscuits". So big ups to 2 wheels. Cheers fellas.



Cheers for the offer man, but I found some 1mm perf sheet at work. The holes are about 8mm sq, so all good and light. I rolled a bit around some 32mm bar and tig'd the seam. Will use woven fibreglass for the packing as it will take a while to fall to bits and shoot out the end. Should even look the part when its all riveted together.

I did pretty much the opposite for mine, bought the perf, and tig'd the can using sheet, twin pipe oval short can makes a wicked noise :yes: bit of silicon on the joins never goes astray :innocent:

Never heard of two wheels engineering, sound like my kinda place though.

[gatch]

I did pretty much the opposite for mine, bought the perf, and tig'd the can using sheet, twin pipe oval short can makes a wicked noise :yes: bit of silicon on the joins never goes astray :innocent:

Never heard of two wheels engineering, sound like my kinda place though.

I'm going to turn up some caps for it tomorrow, will make them a good fit so there SHOULD be minimal leakage. Might put a smear of gasket sealant in there anyway. Good idea.

[gatch]

So, here's my new muffler...

239920239921239922

Going to pack the empty space with some woven fiber glass material. Came out looking pretty cool I thought :woohoo:

[Henk]

Nice work. 10chars

[gatch]

So, here's my new muffler...

239920239921239922

Going to pack the empty space with some woven fiber glass material. Came out looking pretty cool I thought :woohoo:

Sounds very dirt bike-esque now. Still louder than stock but nowhere as offensive as it was with the open megaphone.. Stupid rain is putting the damper on me working on the bike. Trying to tune the bugs out of the carb is no good unless you can ride the blardy thing around.

[gatch]

Sounds very dirt bike-esque now. Still louder than stock but nowhere as offensive as it was with the open megaphone.. Stupid rain is putting the damper on me working on the bike. Trying to tune the bugs out of the carb is no good unless you can ride the blardy thing around.

So it starts easy enough and is now mobile. Just ordered a few bits and pieces that are hard to find/excessively $$$ here in NZ, from wemoto. Namely spare levers, I broke one just moving the bike around in the shed..

The (ever revised) plan is to get the front brakes working WELL again. New EBC pads, new braided lines and fluid. And give the forks some new life as well. At this stage, new seals, fluid and maybe some spacers for a little preload. Not going to bother cutting/spacing the (ugly progressive rate) springs just yet. Also need to deal with the clutch, it slips like a soap on the shower floor. Some "precision ground shims" to go in there I think.

Looking good for the KoK final round. I'm coming for your scalp Richard Hayes. You're a dead man.

[koba]

So it starts easy enough and is now mobile. Just ordered a few bits and pieces that are hard to find/excessively $$$ here in NZ, from wemoto. Namely spare levers, I broke one just moving the bike around in the shed..

The (ever revised) plan is to get the front brakes working WELL again. New EBC pads, new braided lines and fluid. And give the forks some new life as well. At this stage, new seals, fluid and maybe some spacers for a little preload. Not going to bother cutting/spacing the (ugly progressive rate) springs just yet. Also need to deal with the clutch, it slips like a soap on the shower floor. Some "precision ground shims" to go in there I think.

Looking good for the KoK final round. I'm coming for your scalp Richard Hayes. You're a dead man.


But he has the CB, if its in good health he should be at least a bit of a fight.

[gatch]

But he has the CB, if its in good health he should be at least a bit of a fight.

Na he's a homo and I'll kick and punch him till he cries.

[F5 Dave]

I hear he keeps that front wheel out of round just to give him a thrill.

[gatch]

I hear he keeps that front wheel out of round just to give him a thrill.

That's not too far from the truth actually hahahaha.

[husaberg]

So, here's my new muffler...

239920239921239922

Going to pack the empty space with some woven fiber glass material. Came out looking pretty cool I thought :woohoo:

Looks great as a tip for others the best easy sourse of thin wall like 1.2mm or something.
Its irrigation tube mainly used one market gardens now not real farms ask around if your have rural mates but cheap as by the meter at Mico's comes in 75 and 100mm if memory serves me.
I used to just buy the fibreglass packing wool string not cloth at the car mufler shop
$10-15 will do all the mufflers you are likely to ever use in a lifetime of racing.about 1 kg

If you want to get real trick the rotary guys use stainless steel turnings from a machine shop lasts forever even with a pp20b.
For the bafle I just used to spend a few minutes with the drill and a bit of exhaust tubing.

[gatch]

So I had the spada out in the wet at Kaitoke today. Not exactly ideal conditions for a shakedown run, but I was happy to be circulating at long last.

A new coil/condenser cured some last minute lack of spark issues. The muffler was shooting pieces of fibre glass all over the show, so I may look at actual muffler packing (as I am aware it exists now). Also said muffler came loose from the header and ran like a bag of shit. A pivot screw disappeared out of my front brake at some point, stoked I had spare levers.. My kill switch went from the intended on/off function to on/on... I ran out of gas in the "tuning session". Front tire may as well be made of wood..

Otherwise it was ok, no oil leaks. Brakes are good. The motor didn't fall out of it's mounts. My butchered CRC cap seemed to keep water out of the carb mouth fairly well. Suspension sucks ass, but that's not going to change for some time.

All in all not too bad a day. Looking forward to some tweaks and getting out there again.

[Buckets4Me]

All in all not too bad a day. Looking forward to some tweaks and getting out there again.


Photos or it didn't happen

good on ya for getting it to the track :2thumbsup

[Yakman12]

Looking good for the KoK final round. I'm coming for your scalp Richard Hayes. You're a dead man.

So how did you get on with this?

... what's that? .... I whooped your ass??

That's right i did!

Hahahahahah hahaha ha fuckface!

Try again next time Gatch.

[gatch]

So how did you get on with this?

... what's that? .... I whooped your ass??

That's right i did!

Hahahahahah hahaha ha fuckface!

Try again next time Gatch.

Next time, I'll be daring and get out of second gear..

[koba]

Next time, I'll be daring and get out of second gear..

But,
But,
Wouldn't that mean...

INTO THIRD!?!?!?

[Henk]

But,
But,
Wouldn't that mean...

INTO THIRD!?!?!?

Nah, he's going to downshift into corners instead of carrying 2nd all the way round :)

[gatch]

Hello, I'm Gatch. Long time lurker, even longer time poster.

I have a question for the lore masters of bucket fettling.

What would the symptoms of a blocked pilot air jet be ?

Would it include (but not be limited to) bike running like a one legged man and be EXTREMELY hard starting ?

[bogan]

Hello, I'm Gatch. Long time lurker, even longer time poster.

I have a question for the lore masters of bucket fettling.

What would the symptoms of a blocked pilot air jet be ?

Would it include (but not be limited to) bike running like a one legged man and be EXTREMELY hard starting ?

I'm just now trying to figure out how the fuck ACVs work. I know they block air to the pilot jet under decel (so same situ as you're talking about), and this causes more fuel to be added, which counteracts the leaning out of the manifold. You could try winding the fuel screws in and seeing if it gets better?

[gatch]

I'm just now trying to figure out how the fuck ACVs work. I know they block air to the pilot jet under decel (so same situ as you're talking about), and this causes more fuel to be added, which counteracts the leaning out of the manifold. You could try winding the fuel screws in and seeing if it gets better?

Can't even start the sack of shit now.

Getting annoyed.

Time to close the garage door for the night.

[husaberg]

Sorry gatch i thought it was an excuse for some non performance?
Was it a real question?

[gatch]

Sorry gatch i thought it was an excuse for some non performance?
Was it a real question?

No I'm genuinely having trouble getting this to run.

I had it going (very poorly) at kaitoke last year. Wouldn't rev at all over 4-5k. Since then it has sat untouched in my friends shed. Was delivered back to my house just this weekend. I've spent a few hours last night and tonight trying to get it to run again, but am having no luck.

Timing is good, points gap is good, plug gap is good. I pulled the plug and earthed it against the motor, spinning the wheel on the stand in 5th produces a nice spark. Yet when I try crash starting it, it doesn't even produce a pop or bang.

The carb should be ok, there is no fuel leaks, the jet in it should be in the ball park for good running, the manifold is sealed against the motor and the back of the carb. No holes are blocked, the needle is straight etc.

When the motor was put together, it turned nicely by hand (with no plug in) and produced good compression.

The only thing I can think is that the gas is too old and is too rotten. I have since lost the key to the tank. So may have to rig up something temporarily.

Any suggestions would be awesome.

[gatch]

It's a honda GL145 motor. With the standard carb. Just without the pumper connected.

The only mods are a new manifold so the engine would fit under the tank, and a shorter more open exhaust.

[gatch]

And now I find my beer fridge has been unplugged.

Someone is going to get murdered.

[Grumph]

What passes for petrol now is designed to have a shelf life of around ten days....over a year and you've got a foul smelling liquid which requires a lightning strike to ignite.

When you've restored your alcohol levels break the lock on the tank cap....

[Henk]

As gumph said the fuel has probably turned into something awful. Ditch that put some fresh stuff in and try again. Nothing else sounds like it has changed since the last time it ran. I've started taking the fuel out of our buckets and putting it in the van between race meets, not sure if it makes them run any better but it does make them easier to start for the first time they have run in a month.

[gatch]

What passes for petrol now is designed to have a shelf life of around ten days....over a year and you've got a foul smelling liquid which requires a lightning strike to ignite.

When you've restored your alcohol levels break the lock on the tank cap....


As gumph said the fuel has probably turned into something awful. Ditch that put some fresh stuff in and try again. Nothing else sounds like it has changed since the last time it ran. I've started taking the fuel out of our buckets and putting it in the van between race meets, not sure if it makes them run any better but it does make them easier to start for the first time they have run in a month.

Shot. This will be tomorrows mission.

[Bert]

Give me a yell tomorrow / Wednesday if ya still having issues with the old girl; I've got a few old tricks that might work, I can pop over.
You've got my number in a PM somewhere.

Brent.

[Henk]

If you have no luck getting the gas cap off try daring the carb and hitting it with some engine start. It may fire up and then run on the old crap once it's going. You'll still have to replace the varnish in the tank at some stage though.

[gatch]

Give me a yell tomorrow / Wednesday if ya still having issues with the old girl; I've got a few old tricks that might work, I can pop over.
You've got my number in a PM somewhere.

Brent.

Cool man, I may take you up on that if some new gas won't do it.

[Bert]

If you have no luck getting the gas cap off try daring the carb and hitting it with some engine start. It may fire up and then run on the old crap once it's going. You'll still have to replace the varnish in the tank at some stage though.

biggest issue is that the carb and filters (I'm assuming there is at lease one in the tank) are going to be crud or full or crud. it really i think going to be the case of stripping everything down. Engine start is only going to mask the problem. new fuel, clean carb and you might as well clean the sparkplug while your at it.

You have a great point Henk about draining tanks etc at the end of the meeting; it amazing how quick it all turns to sh!t (only good for the lawn mower after a week)...:no:

Key for the tank: a flat head screw driver never failed....

[gatch]

biggest issue is that the carb and filters (I'm assuming there is at lease one in the tank) are going to be crud or full or crud. it really i think going to be the case of stripping everything down. Engine start is only going to mask the problem. new fuel, clean carb and you might as well clean the sparkplug while your at it.

You have a great point Henk about draining tanks etc at the end of the meeting; it amazing how quick it all turns to sh!t (only good for the lawn mower after a week)...:no:

Key for the tank: a flat head screw driver never failed....

No filter in this bad boy. I tried a big screw driver. Maybe I'm too nice. Will make something at work tomorrow to act as a tank in the interim.

[husaberg]

No filter in this bad boy. I tried a big screw driver. Maybe I'm too nice. Will make something at work tomorrow to act as a tank in the interim.

It worries me a bit that it also would run above 5000rpm last time out as well Gatch what was it doing?

[gatch]

It worries me a bit that it also would run above 5000rpm last time out as well Gatch what was it doing?

No no, last time it wouldn't rev out. it would get to 4.5-5k then start popping and banging. Which I took to mean too lean.

But until I can start it again I won't know what the story is.

[husaberg]

No no, last time it wouldn't rev out. it would get to 4.5-5k then start popping and banging. Which I took to mean too lean.

But until I can start it again I won't know what the story is.
Did you try the choke ?
Ps why remove the accelerator pump.
Also i would check valve clearances. Asuming the fueling checks out ok as well the electrics. You never know.
The last time i had symptoms like you discussed on a four stroke it was a leaking inlet manifold the head to carb.

[Bert]

Have you done anything for an airbox? pod? maybe you have an airflow issue.
checked for air leaks with the new manifold
still running points? condenser failing ?? Gap not correct/timing a little out.
strange that it revs some of the way (when everything was clean running order). Makes me think taht there could be something more electrical behind things maybe.

arrrggghhh buckets you got to love them...:niceone:

[gatch]

Did you try the choke ?
Ps why remove the accelerator pump.
Also i would check valve clearances. Asuming the fueling checks out ok as well the electrics. You never know.
The last time i had symptoms like you discussed on a four stroke it was a leaking inlet manifold the head to carb.

I don't want to wreck my tank, so I started making a 2.5L one out of some s/s pipe I found at work. I'd use ali but then I'd have to pay to get it welded. I'll glass over it once it all works.

I took off the pumper, so I can eliminate one variable while I sort an initial carb setup. It's a piece of cake to cable in again.

As for the manifold. I'm certain it's sound. It has a new paper gasket between the head and manifold. And a new oring on the car side.

Valve clearances ok.

Went for a long run tonight. Back to work on bike tomorrow night.

[husaberg]

I don't want to wreck my tank, so I started making a 2.5L one out of some s/s pipe I found at work. I'd use ali but then I'd have to pay to get it welded. I'll glass over it once it all works.

I took off the pumper, so I can eliminate one variable while I sort an initial carb setup. It's a piece of cake to cable in again.

As for the manifold. I'm certain it's sound. It has a new paper gasket between the head and manifold. And a new oring on the car side.

Valve clearances ok.

Went for a long run tonight. Back to work on bike tomorrow night.

This happened last week my son begged to have a ride on his KTM50 out "Shed stored" so I get it out starts ok but is very quiet, which i find odd.
Give it a rev no Smoke, WTF.
Then it starts leaking out one of the rubber joins to the silencer and header i shut it off look down the stinger and it is full of "Mud".
Then i start cursing his ADD mate that was here the day before. So dig in witha long screwdriver more "mud". I am seriously pissed off now.
Still cursing his young mate who i had to keep telling to leave the bikes alone a couple of days prior.
So still seething i remove the silencer give it a couple of thumps and what pops out 1000 spiders and their nest, Thankfully dead. Whoops it pays not tpo blame the kids until all facts are known i guess.