Bucket rules (or lack, thereof)?

[gatch]

Ola, I've just been dragged into racing classic bikes ( a 57 Dominator). I am not fast enough. As such, a lot of people have pointed me towards bucket racing, which sounds like an absolute blast.

I have in my possession a complete Honda Spada chassis, all it needs is a motor. I was wondering where I could find out what the regulations are for engines, tires etc. I don't know the first thing about whats allowed and what not. Help please :)

Yes, I did a quick search but only found bits and pieces..

[woodyracer]

put a FXR motor in it, you can run slicks ect.......do pretty much watevea u like....jsut make sure it dosnt ocme from a competition motorbike, Good luck, max

[F5 Dave]

Check Skunks site click here
(http://www.bucketracing.co.nz/rules.php?pg=rules)

[Str8 Jacket]

You could try here: http://www.bucketracing.co.nz/rules.php?pg=rules

and then come along and join the Welly crew....

[Trudes]

You know you want to ;)

[gatch]

Wicked, cheers for the links team.

While I would love a wee 2 stroke pulling 13k, I think for simplicity sake a Loncin 150 would be adequate for a base..

Looks like I'll be pulling the spada out and giving it a tidy :D

P to the S - I'm a machinist by trade, so if anyone has an sneaky tips where I can save weight/money, all would be greatly appreciated..

[MIXONE]

Wicked, cheers if anyone has an sneaky tips where I can save weight/money, all would be greatly appreciated..

Jenny Craigs or Weight Watchers...

[woodyracer]

Wicked, cheers for the links team.

While I would love a wee 2 stroke pulling 13k, I think for simplicity sake a Loncin 150 would be adequate for a base..

Looks like I'll be pulling the spada out and giving it a tidy :D

P to the S - I'm a machinist by trade, so if anyone has an sneaky tips where I can save weight/money, all would be greatly appreciated..

i use free alloy cut-offs for making parts like, sub frame, fairing brackets ect......saves alot of weight

[gatch]

Jenny Craigs or Weight Watchers...

No way man, the girls like my buddha belly.

Rub it and make a wish, something might come up..


i use free alloy cut-offs for making parts like, sub frame, fairing brackets ect......saves alot of weight

Already had a go at the sub frame with a grinder ha.

What this fearing business ? Are you bullying me ?

[Skunk]

P to the S - I'm a machinist by trade, so if anyone has an sneaky tips where I can save weight/money, all would be greatly appreciated..Remove the wheels and leave out the engine.

[Bert]

Wicked, cheers for the links team.

While I would love a wee 2 stroke pulling 13k, I think for simplicity sake a Loncin 150 would be adequate for a base..

Looks like I'll be pulling the spada out and giving it a tidy :D

P to the S - I'm a machinist by trade, so if anyone has an sneaky tips where I can save weight/money, all would be greatly appreciated..

Do it, sounds like you have the required skills to get a two smoker going....

here you go this will fit straight in, and can be made into a great first bike.

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Parts-for-sale/Complete-engines/auction-273922321.htm

might already have some porting work done....

anyway it good to see another palmy boy thinking about buckets, there is a few of us.

[Trudes]

Drill holes in everything to lighten it, ask Speedpro about making a frame light, I bought his old rolling frame and was amazed what had been made hollow!!;)

[Buckets4Me]

Ola, I've just been dragged into racing classic bikes ( a 57 Dominator). I am not fast enough. As such, a lot of people have pointed me towards bucket racing,

if you are not fast enough in classics how the hell do you think you are going to get along in a much more competitive form of racing :)

na come along you will have a blast
I'm not to fast myself
but I was faster than the classics at Taupo (in the wet)
( I think they where clasics they where red english and 650-750 ish)

[gatch]

if you are not fast enough in classics how the hell do you think you are going to get along in a much more competitive form of racing :)

na come along you will have a blast
I'm not to fast myself
but I was faster than the classics at Taupo (in the wet)
( I think they where clasics they where red english and 650-750 ish)

So I can learn to race with the best of them :D

I imagine bucket racing would be cheap as chips depending on how hard out you want to go with your set up..

[Henk]

Yep chepest way to race bikes. Also good close racing, excellent for improving your racecraft and if you nylon the bike up well enough a low stress way to bin the bike on a regular basis and slide down the track. At least that seems to be what happens to me. Most of the mods to my bike have been concentrated on crash proofing, a useful expenditure of time unfortunately, you may be a more talented rider than me (highly likely)

[Schrgd]

C'mon Henk......Everytime you turn up you are getting faster and faster. Not that I'm any good, but i've had many a lap around mt welly trying to keep up with you whilst battling the onset of a mild cardiac arrest!!! (Any fitness tips appreciated, as long as they involve drinking beer and not moving much)
Considering our extensive experience in bucket's (Coming up 8 months now I think) we don't do to bad....

Welcome to buckets Gatch.... 10 months till TRRS, hope to see ya there.

There has been quite a few of us noob's in buckets this year, going from what i've heard and seen. Must be good for the sport!

[gatch]

Yep chepest way to race bikes. Also good close racing, excellent for improving your racecraft and if you nylon the bike up well enough a low stress way to bin the bike on a regular basis and slide down the track. At least that seems to be what happens to me. Most of the mods to my bike have been concentrated on crash proofing, a useful expenditure of time unfortunately, you may be a more talented rider than me (highly likely)

Plenty of crashing experience.. Everything I've ridden at speed has ended up either on its side or with aluminium crumble for a piston..

I think I might make a few extra nylon sliders and tape em on to my leathers just to be sure..


C'mon Henk......Everytime you turn up you are getting faster and faster. Not that I'm any good, but i've had many a lap around mt welly trying to keep up with you whilst battling the onset of a mild cardiac arrest!!! (Any fitness tips appreciated, as long as they involve drinking beer and not moving much)
Considering our extensive experience in bucket's (Coming up 8 months now I think) we don't do to bad....

Welcome to buckets Gatch.... 10 months till TRRS, hope to see ya there.

There has been quite a few of us noob's in buckets this year, going from what I've heard and seen. Must be good for the sport!

Cool man, TRRS ? If its around Christmas it won't be the go. I'll be at wanganoo eye on the Dominator :D

getting dominated..

[Henk]

Schrgd, sure I went backwards last meet, should have left the balance shaft in. I did manage to crash 3 times over the weekend though. I've only ever managed to beat you in the wet and I think that's because you are smarter than me. Fitness tips? spend a few years doing enduros, four to five hour races make your average bucket race a breeze, only downside is it takes me about 3 laps to warm up. Gatch, I'm sure you'll love it, the atmosphere is great and the amount of encouragement and help you'll get is astounding. The amount of parts (and whole bikes) that I've seen going out on loan to keep people going over a weekend is unbeleiveable and part of what makes the bucket scene (in Auckland anyway) such a great thing to be part of, I doubt it's verry different in other parts of the country.

[Buckets4Me]

So I can learn to race with the best of them :D

I imagine bucket racing would be cheap as chips depending on how hard out you want to go with your set up..

yep cheap and you lean heaps
much more than you would racing classics

you also get to race with some of the country's beast races (depending on where you go)

[Buckets4Me]

Cool man, TRRS ? If its around Christmas it won't be the go. I'll be at wanganoo eye on the Dominator :D

getting dominated..


then it's up to Taupo for the TRRS :) thats why it's then and not any other time
come to both just get the entry in early or you may miss out

[Bert]

Cool man, TRRS ? If its around Christmas it won't be the go. I'll be at wanganoo eye on the Dominator :D


make it a racing christmas, Wangas on boxing day, driveup to taupo; race the next two days (TRRS). could not ask for a better excuse for not dealing with the relatives....

[Mudflaps]

make it a racing christmas, Wangas on boxing day, driveup to taupo; race the next two days (TRRS). could not ask for a better excuse for not dealing with the relatives....


Pretty sure my bike would end up smashed with a tyre iron if I even suggested that we should spend Boxing Day, and some of Xmas day, racing motorbikes. TRRS maybe...but Wanga! Ha, I'm dreaming

[gatch]

make it a racing christmas, Wangas on boxing day, driveup to taupo; race the next two days (TRRS). could not ask for a better excuse for not dealing with the relatives....

While I would love to, the owner of the bike isn't keen, only wants to do a few rounds of the classic register (ending with the festival) and cemetery circuit. Can't complain really, Chris looks after transport, the bike, the fuel and has even paid half of the race fees so far.

I'll make the goal for the spada buckets first race Taupo eh.

[Bert]

I'll make the goal for the spada buckets first race Taupo eh.
I'd hope you see you out there before then...
There is a few of us that venture to welly and the bay on a adhoc basis. get your bike sorted and I'm sure we can fit it in/on something...

[Buckets4Me]

I'll make the goal for the spada buckets first race Taupo eh.

I would get some testing in first :)
you dont test and make sure it's all going good then you end up like a few we know
who park the bike up and watch for the weekend :) (not so likely to get hurt that way)

[gatch]

I'd hope you see you out there before then...
There is a few of us that venture to welly and the bay on a adhoc basis. get your bike sorted and I'm sure we can fit it in/on something...

Cool man, I would hope that is the case as I'm not too keen on getting a tin top just to carry bikes around..


I would get some testing in first :)
you dont test and make sure it's all going good then you end up like a few we know
who park the bike up and watch for the weekend :) (not so likely to get hurt that way)

If this was the case, I'm sure I could rouse up a bottle of something nice to keep me company..

[Buckets4Me]

If this was the case, I'm sure I could rouse up a bottle of something nice to keep me company..

Thats the spirit you will fit in well :)

[gatch]

Well the old spada is looking pretty trim. Aside from the crucial "adding motor" modification. I think I'll fab up a new sub frame that has less bolts holding it together (4 instead of 10), some new handle bars as the stock ones are very moto-x esque. Then, takes the grinder to the rest of the frame and remove all the extra tags and brackets. Should look pretty cool.

Heres a massive picture of it..
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/album.php?albumid=1646&attachmentid=199435

[woodyracer]

Well the old spada is looking pretty trim. Aside from the crucial "adding motor" modification. I think I'll fab up a new sub frame that has less bolts holding it together (4 instead of 10), some new handle bars as the stock ones are very moto-x esque. Then, takes the grinder to the rest of the frame and remove all the extra tags and brackets. Should look pretty cool.

Heres a massive picture of it..
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/album.php?albumid=1646&attachmentid=199435

looks nice mate, you cant go past honda build quality,

[gav]

Here ya go, just race this http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Motorbikes/Classic-vintage/auction-275479320.htm

[gatch]

Here ya go, just race this http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Motorbikes/Classic-vintage/auction-275479320.htm

Jesus christ man. Its ugly as sin !

[TZ350]

Jesus christ man. Its ugly as sin !

Its real easy to get 22 RWHP out of GP100. http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Motorbikes/Classic-vintage/auction-275479320.htm

Handling is pretty modest though.

[gatch]

Its real easy to get 22 RWHP out of GP100. http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Motorbikes/Classic-vintage/auction-275479320.htm

Handling is pretty modest though.

My engine knowledge is limited to 4 strokes.. Hence wanting to get a loncin. I have a vision of a short stroke crank..

[TZ350]

A supercharged Honda 50.......as the rules allow <100cc supercharged 4-strokes in F4....... you could try this with a Loncin...

[Ocean1]

A supercharged Honda 50.......as the rules allow <100cc supercharged 4-strokes in F4....... you could try this with a Loncin...

So, given that the practical limits on HP with a blower is the strength of the crank and cases... what's the nuggetiest 100cc block to use?

[gatch]

A supercharged Honda 50.......as the rules allow <100cc supercharged 4-strokes in F4....... you could try this with a Loncin...

That could always be an option for the future. Building a scmick 100 that could handle 10 or more pound o boost would be a laugh.


So, given that the practical limits on HP with a blower is the strength of the crank and cases... what's the nuggetiest 100cc block to use?

Would be easy for me to replicate a stock crank/block out of better materials.

I have in mind a 3 piece crank all made from 4340 for the as yet non existent loncin.

[bucketracer]

So, given that the practical limits on HP with a blower is the strength of the crank and cases... what's the nuggetiest 100cc block to use?

Honda SL/XL/CB 100

[Ocean1]

Would be easy for me to replicate a stock crank/block out of better materials.

I have in mind a 3 piece crank all made from 4340 for the as yet non existent loncin.

'Zackly.

Can model up new cases and get 'em CNC munched too, need a gearbox, donated from what?

I'd digitise the original and add thickness and webs... possibly cavity for dry-sump...

Any restrictions if we assume the owner makes all the bits?

[Ocean1]

Honda SL/XL/CB 100

OK, I know the XL a bit.

Might need some serious FINZ on the head.

[TZ350]

Might need some serious FINZ on the head.

Cooling shouldn't be to hard. Fit a copper head gasket fin like on my GP, then spray water on it from a window washer and use a big oil cooler for the motor/gearbox, and spray a little water on that too.

Supercharging is great because you don't need hot cams or to rev the engine hard out, and you can short shift and use the extra low down grunt to drive out of the corners.

In the picture you can see how the oversized head gasket forms an extra large cooling fin.

[bucketracer]

Here is a look at a motor Speedpro is playing with.......aharrrrrrrrr...:).....4-strokes......great, aren't they.....don't you just love em....

A clever guy is that Speedpro......

[F5 Dave]

'Zackly.

Can model up new cases and get 'em CNC munched too, need a gearbox, donated from what?

I'd digitise the original and add thickness and webs... possibly cavity for dry-sump...

Any restrictions if we assume the owner makes all the bits?
From the rule book:
"Buckets have two engine capacity classes:
F4
2 stroke 55-100cc
2 stroke 55-125cc air cooled
4 stroke 55-150cc
F5
2 stroke 0-50cc
4 stroke 0-100cc air cooled

Engines must be derived from non-competition motorcycles. . . . ."

I think that last line would smeg you unless you could somehow prove that you were making a production run of non competition motorcycles at the time:blink:

FFS guys - just buy a bike & get out & race.

[jasonu]

A clever guy is that Speedpro......[/QUOTE]

Haven't seen it go yet...

[Yow Ling]

Here is a look at a motor Speedpro is playing with.......aharrrrrrrrr...:).....4-strokes......great, aren't they.....don't you just love em....

A clever guy is that Speedpro......

Those pictures are so old they should be in black and white !

[Yow Ling]

From the rule book:
"Buckets have two engine capacity classes:
F4
2 stroke 55-100cc
2 stroke 55-125cc air cooled
4 stroke 55-150cc
F5
2 stroke 0-50cc
4 stroke 0-100cc air cooled

Engines must be derived from non-competition motorcycles. . . . ."

I think that last line would smeg you unless you could somehow prove that you were making a production run of non competition motorcycles at the time:blink:

FFS guys - just buy a bike & get out & race.

The aussies have dropped the no handbuilt engines rule, its a bit vauge anyway is a handbuilt engine a competition engine even if it has no competition parts because it just is ? Any way you can go to a honda shop and buy a bling CBR150 for 6 or 7 k and it will be potentially faster than a 3/4 developed mongrel. CNC cases my arse !!

[TZ350]

..........CNC cases my arse !!

Here is a picture of Chambers arse!! after he fell at Taupo. :doh:

[gatch]

The aussies have dropped the no handbuilt engines rule, its a bit vauge anyway is a handbuilt engine a competition engine even if it has no competition parts because it just is ? Any way you can go to a honda shop and buy a bling CBR150 for 6 or 7 k and it will be potentially faster than a 3/4 developed mongrel. CNC cases my arse !!

Wheres the fun in that though ? There is whole clubs devoted to buy a win racing..


Here is a picture of Chambers arse!! after he fell at Taupo. :doh:

Fell off ? Looks like an initiation ceremony gone bad..

[bucketracer]

Fell off ? Looks like an initiation ceremony gone bad..

Got bunted by a bike when he was on the ground.....

[gatch]

Got buggered by a bike when he was on the ground.....

Fixed...

Just making some sketches up right now for some adjustable "rearsets". Hopefully can scrounge up some 10mm ally at work, I'd hate to have to buy it..

[Ocean1]

FFS guys - just buy a bike & get out & race.

But that'd be highly prejudicial against us poor souls wot can't ride for shit.

We'd rather build somat wiv twice the power to make us feel adequate.

[Bert]

Fixed...

Just making some sketches up right now for some adjustable "rearsets". Hopefully can scrounge up some 10mm ally at work, I'd hate to have to buy it..

I've got heaps if you can't find any.... small cost; like maybe some adjustable rearsets. Yes i think that would do nicely...

if your heading towards a lonchin, have a talk to Fi5hy, his rocks..

maybe you could rap it inside one of these:
http://www.cosentinoengineering.com/index_files/page0011.htm

[gatch]

I've got heaps if you can't find any.

maybe you could rap it inside one of these:


Cheers man I'll keep that in mind, but the theme at the moment is "what can I do for $0".. Hence scrounging for bits at work..

And the red thing looks mint, does it have girder forks ??

[Bert]

"what can I do for $0"

And the red thing looks mint, does it have girder forks ??

You sound like a bucket racer now.

Red thing, yip type of girder, Hossack setup same as the Britten. Very cool.

Cosentino (USA) built it (being a 4 stroke) to race RS125 (size and similar weight). quite an interesting setup.

[fi5hy]

That would feel weird having the bars move up and down over the bumps

[F5 Dave]

Nah they don't, they will connect to a steering stem independent to the upy downy moving parts.

[boostin]

I love the look and idea of the Rotacular bike. Have long been toying with the idea of making a bucket frame of similar design.

[F5 Dave]

Go right ahead. There used to be a hub centre steered bike in the 90s but it is in a garage in P/N atm. Never rode it but it seemed to handle ok.

[gatch]

Went scrounging at work today, only ally I can find is 100 diameter, one of the dudes is hooking me up with a bit of 8mm plate though.. Found some 30mm thick nylon too, so I attacked it with a holesaw and tidied up in the lathe, now have 15 speed knobs for the spartan. It's a slow start haha..

[speedpro]

In the proces of moving house I found a tape of bucket racing at various tracks from the mid 90s. It clearly shows the hub-centre-steering bucket doing laps at Ohakea in a GP. Also showed a very young Shirriff bloke standing on top of the podium afterwards with a Steadman on each side. Some good on-board footage from Blenheim kart track as well. Also on the tape but nothing to do with buckets was a 10' aluminium dinghy with a monster Mercury power head driving a jet unit. 10' and 275hp, it looked interesting and had Steadmans in it so it is kinda relevant.

[Bren_chch]

In the proces of moving house I found a tape of bucket racing at various tracks from the mid 90s. It clearly shows the hub-centre-steering bucket doing laps at Ohakea in a GP. Also showed a very young Shirriff bloke standing on top of the podium afterwards with a Steadman on each side. Some good on-board footage from Blenheim kart track as well. Also on the tape but nothing to do with buckets was a 10' aluminium dinghy with a monster Mercury power head driving a jet unit. 10' and 275hp, it looked interesting and had Steadmans in it so it is kinda relevant.

will it makes its way to youtube?

[gatch]

Pulled the front wheel this morning, the brake disc is pretty lumpy, so will see what I can do at work to give it a skim. The wheel bearings and seals are STUFFED ! I think only the brake was holding the front wheel straight. With the brake removed and holding the bars steady, there was about 5mm playat the edge of the wheel.. Dodgy..

So new bearings/seals are in order. A wee spacer where the speedo drive used to sit to be turned up. Skim the disc.. Good fun :)

[gatch]

So today after work I get to having a go at the front disc. Not as easy as you would think.. I'm not going to bother with a regular ass tpmr tip tool, or grind up a piece of assab. I've made a fixture so the disc will sit in nice and snug, then held in place with the lathe tail stock. I've pulled out the old tool post grinder that most people didn't even know existed ha. Found a reasonable cup wheel for it and had a test run today. Considering it spins at 4,500 rpm and has no guard, I'm going to make a guard so I don't lose my face if it explodes..

I've also decided to replace the front axle with a custom job, That has the necessary threaded holes for attaching crash bungs..

Watch this space.

[Buckets4Me]

I must be drinking am seeing double

[woodyracer]

I must be drinking am seeing double

i see it too!, maybe we should both attend AA?? ahahha

[gatch]

I has no ideas what you's is on abouts..

[koba]

So today after work I get to having a go at the front disc. Not as easy as you would think.. I'm not going to bother with a regular ass tpmr tip tool, or grind up a piece of assab. I've made a fixture so the disc will sit in nice and snug, then held in place with the lathe tail stock. I've pulled out the old tool post grinder that most people didn't even know existed ha. Found a reasonable cup wheel for it and had a test run today. Considering it spins at 4,500 rpm and has no guard, I'm going to make a guard so I don't lose my face if it explodes..

I've also decided to replace the front axle with a custom job, That has the necessary threaded holes for attaching crash bungs..

Watch this space.

I'm watching with interest!

[gatch]

Soo, today I took the day off to mess around in the work shop. Welded up a fixture and fixed that in the chuck, turned it so it was flat. Fitted up the tool post grinder. A whole bunch of little issues getting that set, but persistence pays off.. Front disc is now nice and clean. No gnarly lip or gouges. Obviously I have no motor so can't test it at all. Started on the new axle as well but ran out of time.. Maybe will have it done next friday..

[koba]

Soo, today I took the day off to mess around in the work shop. Welded up a fixture and fixed that in the chuck, turned it so it was flat. Fitted up the tool post grinder. A whole bunch of little issues getting that set, but persistence pays off.. Front disc is now nice and clean. No gnarly lip or gouges. Obviously I have no motor so can't test it at all. Started on the new axle as well but ran out of time.. Maybe will have it done next friday..

Nice, Im going to have a go at that myself very soon.

[koba]

Soo, today I took the day off to mess around in the work shop. Welded up a fixture and fixed that in the chuck, turned it so it was flat. Fitted up the tool post grinder. A whole bunch of little issues getting that set, but persistence pays off.. Front disc is now nice and clean. No gnarly lip or gouges. Obviously I have no motor so can't test it at all. Started on the new axle as well but ran out of time.. Maybe will have it done next friday..

Is there any reason you went for the grinder? better finish in a quicker time?

I've been pissing about with an old disk in the lathe and HSS seems to cut it OK but its quite fussy to get a good finish. Oh, and the factory disk was really far from concentric!!

[gatch]

Is there any reason you went for the grinder? better finish in a quicker time?

I've been pissing about with an old disk in the lathe and HSS seems to cut it OK but its quite fussy to get a good finish. Oh, and the factory disk was really far from concentric!!

I've never used a tool post grinder before.. So thought I'd have a go.. The tool steel might work if you can deal to the vibration, and the problem of intermittent cutting because of all the holes in the brake disc..

To hold it, I welded a bit of 10" pipe, to a 12mm thick mild steel disc, with an OD of about 340mm. Then held the pipe in the chuck jaws (you will never get the brake disc to run true just holding it in a chuck, even in a 4 jaw you will have vibration problems etc), I bored the 12mm thick bit out so that the brake disc carrier and rivets would fit inside it.. Then bored a spigot into it that was about 0.2mm bigger than the OD of the brake disc, so that it would run concentric. THEN used the tail stock to hold the brake disc in the centre, up against the machined fixture. It only needed light pressure because with the grinder you are only removing about 0.05mm at a time. I had the lathe turning as slow as it would go (45rpm) with the maximum feed I could. The grinder spins at 4500rpm I think. Lots of really watered down coolant..

Easy peasy :D

[Bert]

Nice Work Gatch.
I didn't think that it would be that difficult... Now I see why everytime i get things machined it costs the earth.
(Its the time and thought that you guys have to put into it to acutually get the stuff done).

Sounds like you have access to some equipment.

[bogan]

I've never used a tool post grinder before.. So thought I'd have a go.. The tool steel might work if you can deal to the vibration, and the problem of intermittent cutting because of all the holes in the brake disc..

To hold it, I welded a bit of 10" pipe, to a 12mm thick mild steel disc, with an OD of about 340mm. Then held the pipe in the chuck jaws (you will never get the brake disc to run true just holding it in a chuck, even in a 4 jaw you will have vibration problems etc), I bored the 12mm thick bit out so that the brake disc carrier and rivets would fit inside it.. Then bored a spigot into it that was about 0.2mm bigger than the OD of the brake disc, so that it would run concentric. THEN used the tail stock to hold the brake disc in the centre, up against the machined fixture. It only needed light pressure because with the grinder you are only removing about 0.05mm at a time. I had the lathe turning as slow as it would go (45rpm) with the maximum feed I could. The grinder spins at 4500rpm I think. Lots of really watered down coolant..

Easy peasy :D

reckon that technique would work well with warped discs? I'm guessing with the light pressure needed the high spots probably wouldn't be pulled back down like they would in a surface grinder.

[gatch]

Nice Work Gatch.
I didn't think that it would be that difficult... Now I see why everytime i get things machined it costs the earth.
(Its the time and thought that you guys have to put into it to acutually get the stuff done).

Sounds like you have access to some equipment.

Na most of out stuff it pretty basic.. We just have to think outside the square to get things done..


reckon that technique would work well with warped discs? I'm guessing with the light pressure needed the high spots probably wouldn't be pulled back down like they would in a surface grinder.

Depends how warped they are to start with I guess ? I thought about getting them ground on a surface grinder, but the rivets the hold the disc to the carrier get in the way.. I'm not sure about the strength of the magnetic chucks..

[bogan]

Depends how warped they are to start with I guess ? I thought about getting them ground on a surface grinder, but the rivets the hold the disc to the carrier get in the way.. I'm not sure about the strength of the magnetic chucks..

bout .1-.15mm runout, good point bout the rivets, theyd have to come out before using on a surface grinder

[gatch]

bout .1-.15mm runout, good point bout the rivets, theyd have to come out before using on a surface grinder

I don't think .15 would cause any problem.. You'll be grinding both sides so any imperfections should be ironed out.. Yeah I didn't want to mess with the rivets so did it on the lathe..

[speedpro]

I used a similar technique to mount and turn some clutch plates I was thinning but I ground and polished a HS steel tool for the cut. Made a really nice cut, no vibration, and a nice finish. Turned it a bit faster of course. Had a bit of success with my electric high speed grinder mounted on the tool post machining some hardened surfaces. Very slow material removal but beautiful finish.

[gatch]

I used a similar technique to mount and turn some clutch plates I was thinning but I ground and polished a HS steel tool for the cut. Made a really nice cut, no vibration, and a nice finish. Turned it a bit faster of course. Had a bit of success with my electric high speed grinder mounted on the tool post machining some hardened surfaces. Very slow material removal but beautiful finish.

Yeah if you can set up the grinder properly it will give the best finish.. I only had one wheel that was applicable to what I was doing and was slighly unbalanced I think, left slight vibration marks on the disc, but you cant feel any imperfection with your finger.. Good enough for the application I think.

[Ocean1]

Yeah if you can set up the grinder properly it will give the best finish..

Good job. They're originally finished with a cup wheel, you can see the machining marks clearly on most new disks.

I had trouble with my front disk pulsing at certain speeds, getting progressively worse. It's a known occasional Buell issue and there's as many "fixes" as there are "experts". Measured up in spec' (just) for run-out but nothing else worked so I ground my disk absolutely flat with a diamond cup wheel on a mill, (no rivets to worry about). It helped but didn't eliminate the problem.

In the end I didn't have time to piss around with it any longer, teh scooter centre replaced the disk under warantee (:first:) and the problem went away. Would love to know what the problem with the old disk was...

[koba]

I've never used a tool post grinder before.. So thought I'd have a go.. The tool steel might work if you can deal to the vibration, and the problem of intermittent cutting because of all the holes in the brake disc..

To hold it, I welded a bit of 10" pipe, to a 12mm thick mild steel disc, with an OD of about 340mm. Then held the pipe in the chuck jaws (you will never get the brake disc to run true just holding it in a chuck, even in a 4 jaw you will have vibration problems etc), I bored the 12mm thick bit out so that the brake disc carrier and rivets would fit inside it.. Then bored a spigot into it that was about 0.2mm bigger than the OD of the brake disc, so that it would run concentric. THEN used the tail stock to hold the brake disc in the centre, up against the machined fixture. It only needed light pressure because with the grinder you are only removing about 0.05mm at a time. I had the lathe turning as slow as it would go (45rpm) with the maximum feed I could. The grinder spins at 4500rpm I think. Lots of really watered down coolant..

Easy peasy :D

I experimented a bit with an angle grinder today, looks promising for what I'm trying to do.

Nice!

Smart bastard aye!

[gatch]

I experimented a bit with an angle grinder today, looks promising for what I'm trying to do.

Nice!

Smart bastard aye!

hahahah an angle grinder you rough prick !!

I guess if you can hold it rigid on the tool post it could work.. Tell me how you get on..

[speedpro]

One of the guys flicked a pushrod out of place at the drags. It wasn't any good afterwards and the only spares anyone had were too long. We fitted one end of a new one into a cordless drill and ground the end off. The guy with the cordless drill smeared one hand with grease and used that to steady the pushrod while it was spun. Once it was squared up and the correct length we fitted the end bit and put it back in the motor. Did another good run up around 200mph. Rough? maybe. Did it work? Certainly did.

[NOID]

yep rough but it works .. Grinder, hammer and welder and anything possible

[koba]

One of the guys flicked a pushrod out of place at the drags. It wasn't any good afterwards and the only spares anyone had were too long. We fitted one end of a new one into a cordless drill and ground the end off. The guy with the cordless drill smeared one hand with grease and used that to steady the pushrod while it was spun. Once it was squared up and the correct length we fitted the end bit and put it back in the motor. Did another good run up around 200mph. Rough? maybe. Did it work? Certainly did.

That is bloody brilliant!!!

[F5 Dave]

With rivets on a mag table apparently you can use a spacer but it is a pain. If you use too much magnet the disc is pulled straight & springs back after you make an ineffective cut. -or so I'm told, I pay to get those done, usually a band-aid till you get some more discs. Though I have straightened discs that lasted for many years racing on the wheel with crescent wrench & taps of hammer. Good luck required.

If the disc is straight & it's just grooves then a sand paper flapper wheel on the disc grinder while disc spun on lather works well, even sandpaper can be ok to deglaze & get rid of minor grooves.

[gatch]

With rivets on a mag table apparently you can use a spacer but it is a pain. If you use too much magnet the disc is pulled straight & springs back after you make an ineffective cut. -or so I'm told, I pay to get those done, usually a band-aid till you get some more discs. Though I have straightened discs that lasted for many years racing on the wheel with crescent wrench & taps of hammer. Good luck required.

If the disc is straight & it's just grooves then a sand paper flapper wheel on the disc grinder while disc spun on lather works well, even sandpaper can be ok to deglaze & get rid of minor grooves.

Flap wheels can fix almost anything..

[koba]

With rivets on a mag table apparently you can use a spacer but it is a pain. If you use too much magnet the disc is pulled straight & springs back after you make an ineffective cut. -or so I'm told, I pay to get those done, usually a band-aid till you get some more discs. Though I have straightened discs that lasted for many years racing on the wheel with crescent wrench & taps of hammer. Good luck required.

If the disc is straight & it's just grooves then a sand paper flapper wheel on the disc grinder while disc spun on lather works well, even sandpaper can be ok to deglaze & get rid of minor grooves.

My Brother used to do it by hand on a brake machine, just to break the ridges off.

Hold on this is KB I need to work on getting the braiks wronger.


Flap wheels can fix almost anything..

How I got on.

Conclusuions, lessons:

1. Gatch is correct about vibration and mounting.
2. Freehand grinder no good for actually reshaping the disk.
3. Angle grinder would probably work brill if mounted solidly.
4. Flat disk = easy, straight bolt to faceplate!
5. A bit of card under worn part of disk minimises vibraton.
6. Disk cut nicely with minimal marks with HSS bits.

I will probably carefully run a flapdisk over it to get "the look"

My other lesson was to fucken bloody measure everything, part 892.
When will I ever learn that one!

[gatch]

My other lesson was to fucken bloody measure everything, part 892.
When will I ever learn that one!

Good work. So long as its flat and parallel to the spigot it sits on, doesn't really matter how its done.. If all machining was straight forward and easy I wouldn't have a job..

Now now, I finished off the replacement front axle for the spada. It's got a 14mm hole right through it so is only marginally heavier than stock. Except for the ends are different, the retaining thread is now external. There is also an m10 thread in each end for holding crash bungs. The OD where the bearing sit is 19.98 - 19.99, where the oem item was 19.8 something ! Shocking tolerance.. Made from 4140 I am certain I will struggle to bend it.. The new one is at the bottom..

[speedpro]

4140, ppffft, I've snapped an axle made from that, mind you it was the rear axle in my bucket sidecar. We went on to some stuff they make drag race axles from. Then we broke the hub which was 41??. Got quite exciting.

[gatch]

4140, ppffft, I've snapped an axle made from that, mind you it was the rear axle in my bucket sidecar. We went on to some stuff they make drag race axles from. Then we broke the hub which was 41??. Got quite exciting.

If you are breaking stuff in 4140, its either made too thin, or hasn't had stress raisers removed.. Its good stuff..

[Skunk]

4140, ppffft, I've snapped an axle made from that, mind you it was the rear axle in my bucket sidecar. We went on to some stuff they make drag race axles from. Then we broke the hub which was 41??. Got quite exciting.That sidecar may be making an appearance at the Easter Meet at Kaitoke.

[Brian d marge]

Sorry just flicking through Kb , reading this thread , and

4140

whats wrong with 1020 designed correctly ? after all its the shape that gives strength

This bucket thing is becoming strangly attractive

I bookmarked on trade me ........................ a BSA Bantam engine and some aprillia 50 running gear ,,,,,,,,,

all is well i HAD A COLD SHOWER

auction closes in a week

Stephen ( damn the lot of you )

[Kickaha]

That sidecar may be making an appearance at the Easter Meet at Kaitoke.

You're going to let filthy oil dropping sidecars out? that's another reason not to go :bleh:

[Henk]

That sidecar may be making an appearance at the Easter Meet at Kaitoke.

Can I have a go on the weird bit thats bolted to the side ruining a perfectly good motorcycle? Please?

[F5 Dave]

Send it out in reverse direction in the B grade race. That'll make em less worried about all in races with the A's (A stands for Acehole of course:yeah:)

[Kendog]

Send it out in reverse direction in the B grade race. That'll make em less worried about all in races with the A's (A stands for Acehole of course:yeah:):angry: :2guns::nono:

[Buckets4Me]

You're going to let filthy oil dropping sidecars out? that's another reason not to go :bleh:

where you at Hampton downs ??

[Kickaha]

where you at Hampton downs ??

I may possibly have even been racing a Sidecar there :lol: (not a filthy oil dropping one though)

[gatch]

Sorry just flicking through Kb , reading this thread , and

4140

whats wrong with 1020 designed correctly ? after all its the shape that gives strength

This bucket thing is becoming strangly attractive

I bookmarked on trade me ........................ a BSA Bantam engine and some aprillia 50 running gear ,,,,,,,,,

all is well i HAD A COLD SHOWER

auction closes in a week

Stephen ( damn the lot of you )

The same item with some good design, could probably be made lighter in 4140..

Mostly I favor it because it comes up with a better finish than low tensile chewing gum.. So shiny..

[gatch]

Went to pull off te swingarm off te spada this afternoon. Only to find I need to make some tools to get it off..

Honda makes some tough bikes, then marrs the goodness by having silly specialist tools that achive only a small part of a job. I think when I eventually put it back together, the bushes and pin may look a little different..

Pulled the sub frame as well, will take it into work tomorrow for a decent clean and removal of unnecessary tabs/brackets. Should be a bit lighter and much smoother on the eyes in a day or 2.

[Ray LeCheminant]

Went to pull off te swingarm off te spada this afternoon. Only to find I need to make some tools to get it off..

Honda makes some tough bikes, then marrs the goodness by having silly specialist tools that achive only a small part of a job. I think when I eventually put it back together, the bushes and pin may look a little different..

Pulled the sub frame as well, will take it into work tomorrow for a decent clean and removal of unnecessary tabs/brackets. Should be a bit lighter and much smoother on the eyes in a day or 2.

I know the feeling - FXR just about to undergo the Mighty Makita remodel......I reckon I have found 3-5 kgs that will come off in a single swipe!!!

You finish one thing, and then the next job come along - I am wondering if this is ever going to get finsihed

R

[Henk]

It doesn't take that long :yes:

Just remember that it takes a lot longer to glue it back on if you decide you needed it after all.

[Ray LeCheminant]

It doesn't take that long :yes:

Just remember that it takes a lot longer to glue it back on if you decide you needed it after all.

LOL - all good fun though.....being very careful, as you say , easy off - not easy on!! - especially with my welding skills

:o

[Henk]

I left all the grinder work until I had the tailpeice and number board pretty much ready to install.
You can lose quite a bit of excess crap if you get ruthless. You might also have to move various bits and peices depending on the bodywork you end up running. What little electrics I retained have all moved and I had to relocate the rear brake resovoir in order to make the tailpeice fit. The battery box is a good place for the CDI if you are going to lose the electric start.
You can also get stuck in with a jigsaw and lose most of the rear gaurd. Choped mine off just past the battery box.

[gatch]

I left all the grinder work until I had the tailpeice and number board pretty much ready to install.
You can lose quite a bit of excess crap if you get ruthless. You might also have to move various bits and peices depending on the bodywork you end up running. What little electrics I retained have all moved and I had to relocate the rear brake resovoir in order to make the tailpeice fit. The battery box is a good place for the CDI if you are going to lose the electric start.
You can also get stuck in with a jigsaw and lose most of the rear gaurd. Choped mine off just past the battery box.

I don't intend on using a glass tail.. The only thing that isn't necessary that I will keep is the plush seat. I had it re upholstered with denser foam when it was my road bike, and it's just so damned comfy.. Anything guards/boards that needs to be made will be made from .8mm ally.

[gatch]

It doesn't take that long :yes:

Just remember that it takes a lot longer to glue it back on if you decide you needed it after all.

The cleaning does.. Stupid cast ally bits with deep pockets..

Anyway I've decided against using the oem sub frame. I will TIG up something nice out of chrome moly tube, can get it reasonably cheap through "advanced 4wd equipment", some 3/4" 35thou wall tube @ about $20/metre.

[gatch]

Progress has been slow, busy with work, racing the dominator etc..

Bearings in the swingarms are still pretty solid, so no changes there. Soon will have some bosses welded into the swingarm, so a stand can be used and crash bungs can be screwed on. Might have a braided brake line for the front soon, so will flush the reservoir and calliper, hook it up etc.

Otherwise I can't do an awful lot more till I get a motor..

[koba]

Progress has been slow, busy with work, racing the dominator etc..

Bearings in the swingarms are still pretty solid, so no changes there. Soon will have some bosses welded into the swingarm, so a stand can be used and crash bungs can be screwed on. Might have a braided brake line for the front soon, so will flush the reservoir and calliper, hook it up etc.

Otherwise I can't do an awful lot more till I get a motor..

Have you settled on what that will be?

[gatch]

Have you settled on what that will be?

Will go with a Loncin I think.

Can't be arsed with old second hand motors, finding bits, repairing fucked cylinders etc. Spending enough time fucking around with bits and pieces as it is haha.

Made some sweet crash bung holders today, at work, while doing another job on the mill.. Just got to glue the fuckers on now.

[koba]

Will go with a Loncin I think.

Can't be arsed with old second hand motors, finding bits, repairing fucked cylinders etc. Spending enough time fucking around with bits and pieces as it is haha.

Made some sweet crash bung holders today, at work, while doing another job on the mill.. Just got to glue the fuckers on now.

Good call.

Time to warm up the hot-glue gun!

[gatch]

Good call.

Time to warm up the hot-glue gun!

I think I'll get one of the dudes at work to tig them on for me.. The swingarm wall thickness is about 1.6mm or so.. Last thing I want is to be repairing burn holes..

I was put onto a website that sells big bore cylinders for loncins :D A short stroke motor may be on the cards haha.

[gatch]

How much work does the average bucket racer put into tuning suspension ? I ask because the sprung parts on the spada chassis are softer than the average waterbed..

It should feel firmer when the bike is finished, as it will be 30-40kg lighter than stock. But was wondering, if people put as much effort into suspension as they do the motors ?

Here's some things I've thought a little about (most/all probably already covered somewhere) and would like to look into.. The key factor in these ideas is they cost little to no money..
- Cutting fork/shock spring
- Different sae rating fork oils
- Pressurizing forks
- Altering dog-bone/triangle-link hole centres.
- Manufacturing a right height adjustment for the rear.

Any constructive correspondence is welcome :)

[saxet]

All of the above are not uncommon as some people put quite a bit of effort into making the bike handle.

[speedpro]

I've put a bit of effort into tuning the suspension. It's the same as anything else, measure twice - cut once. Get your bike all together and then measure sag at both ends and set that as per recommendations and then start playing with damping. Do NOT assume anything, like for instance that because you have swapped to a lighter engine you will need to make various changes. You may be surprised when you measure it.

[F5 Dave]

Forget pressurising forks, it sucks. Also heavy oils are fine as long as there are no bumps & you can control the action to unfeasibly low. stick with 10 & just get out & ride the bike.

[gatch]

Forget pressurising forks, it sucks. Also heavy oils are fine as long as there are no bumps & you can control the action to unfeasibly low. stick with 10 & just get out & ride the bike.

Need a motor.. I"m on a zero dollar budget for the time being.. Hence I'm reading and reading about stuff. Just looking for things to do that may improve the handling some..

[scooute]

Hi there I also have been on the bucket racing website and checked out the rules as Im keen as beans to get into this sport :baby: it states no motorcross parts however I have seen pitbikes (on youtube) the same as one I just rebuilt running at mt wellington. Is this in their own time for fun or practise or can a 125cc air cooled 4 speed pitbike compete (once all the pokey bits etc are covered in Nylon and everything is plugged and tied down) I had planned to get a job (been working on that for ages :brick:) and start saving to build a bike, if not maybe I will sell the pitbike and get me a bucket racer to work on and then race and some leathers :ride:
Also I am keen to come and check it out on the 15th but the website has no other details about the event like when and what is happening, Sidwyz has helped me out by telling me where to go and that practise starts at 9.30 on sat 15th but thats all I got to go on. Thanks a million to any help offerd!
Ride safe:scooter:

[Henk]

Gates usually open about 9, kick off about 9:30. Saturday open practice with pockets and motards if they turn up and Sunday practice from 9:30ish and racing from about 12.

[scooute]

Gates usually open about 9, kick off about 9:30. Saturday open practice with pockets and motards if they turn up and Sunday practice from 9:30ish and racing from about 12.

Thanks Henk, appreciate the help. :yes: yay now I know what I need to do to get some practise in (prep my gear and bike) that'll help me work on skills whilst I save for a bucket yay... Bling for you! :first: Cant wait to check out the action!!!
Ride safe:scooter:

[bucketracer]

I have seen pitbikes (on youtube) the same as one I just rebuilt running at mt wellington. Is this in their own time for fun or practise or can a 125cc air cooled 4 speed pitbike compete :scooter:

Yes pit bikes are OK to compete, lots of good riders started on one..........nylon and lock wire yours, bring it along with some good strong riding gear and I am sure you would at John Conners discretion be allowed out for a bit of a trot around.

Otherwise you could come down Sunday and help out as a flaggy during the races.........

[scooute]

Yes pit bikes are OK to compete, lots of good riders started on one..........nylon and lock wire yours, bring it along with some good strong riding gear and I am sure you would at John Conners discretion be allowed out for a bit of a trot around.

Otherwise you could come down Sunday and help out as a flaggy during the races.........

IM IN!!!... sounds like a blast and will do anything to be involved (within reason before you all start with the strange propositions lol) Thanks for the advise, I have been researching what I need to do to make the bike safe for myself, other riders and the track just need to figure out how and I will get started asap. first step is to come down and have a look first hand... so I'll see you there (are there any entry fees at the gate? as I mentioned Im unemployed atm after a bit of a break from life :ride: to ride my bike haha so low cost is key for me sadly will need warning to source funds if so :cry:)

[Henk]

Free to come and watch. Bring your gear (if you have some) and you might get to blag a try on somebodys toy.

[scooute]

Free to come and watch. Bring your gear (if you have some) and you might get to blag a try on somebodys toy.

I will deff come and watch, Ta. no leathers atm though...

[Pumba]

Another option is if you give John Conner a call (his number is in the AMCC website) the club slut may be avaliable for you to have a ride on over the weekend

[scooute]

Another option is if you give John Conner a call (his number is in the AMCC website) the club slut may be avaliable for you to have a ride on over the weekend

Thanks for the tip Ihave the site saved to my favourites so may just look into that!

[bucketracer]

... so I'll see you there are there any entry fees at the gate?

Entry fee is for riders only, $35 for Sunday, $50 for both Sat/Sun, $20 Sat afternoon only and no fees for spectators or helpers anytime and your first ride or two to try things out is usually free too............

BTW....this very quick rider started with a pit bike.

[woodyracer]

darn mt wellington is on the same date as the vmcc round 1!, The honda is giving me a sad look in the garage :shutup:

Next month.....hopefully
Have a good weekend.

[bucketracer]

I will deff come and watch, Ta. no leathers atm though...

Leathers not required for a bit of a put around. But must have/borrowed good riding gear, helmet, gloves, boots (work boots OK) leather jacket, jeans and overalls. The object is to have gear that will save you from getting gravel rash if you slide off. So no bare skin if your jacket pulls up when you bend over and overalls over jeans and jacket holds everything together in the event of a spill.

[scooute]

Leathers not required for a bit of a put around. But must have/borrowed good riding gear, helmet, gloves, boots (work boots OK) leather jacket, jeans and overalls. The object is to have gear that will save you from getting gravel rash if you slide off. So no bare skin if your jacket pulls up when you bend over and overalls over jeans and jacket holds everything together in the event of a spill.

Wow... I really appreciate all the advice, I think this month will be a spectator helper event for me on sunday (working on family farm saturday now as I just heard my lil nephew will be there, he loves bikes already and hes only 2 wish Id started that early!:ride:) with aim to jack somthing up for a possible blat next month, will be riding my road bike there so will have my gear with me...lol... who knows!!! but I predict an exciting future in bucket racing :yes:

[gatch]

Choice, I'm back in the workshop again after loads of on site work.

Started roughing out some "rearsets" today. 12 pieces of 6mm ally. Screwed together ready for the milling to start. Only using 6mm because that's what I found in the shorts rack at work.. Will stick 2 pieces together on each side, once they are all machined up. Thought I'd make extras as I'm certain I'll chuck it down the track a few times..

Also decided on manufacturing my own brand of folding pegs. Probably won't be as light as most aftermarket ones, but I know they will be stronger..

Hopefully I'll be able to spend a whole day in the workshop soon working on my subframe. On that note I've learned the perils of attempting to bend thin wall chromoly with a pipe bender.. Wrinkle wrinkle.. So I guess I'll have to make a tube bender too hahaha.

And I've found a bit of 100mm round ally as well that I'll turn down for a neat tacho pod. Should sit nicely in between the top of the forks.

Still have no motor, as I still have no money hahaha. But with only one big bill to pay off, a shiny wee loncin should be delivered by the stork in time for my birthday in march..

So there's no way I'll make the TRRS on the spada bucket. But with 4 maybe 5 other events on the dominator coming up I should have my hands full anyway.

Choice.

[bogan]

Choice, I'm back in the workshop again after loads of on site work.

Started roughing out some "rearsets" today. 12 pieces of 6mm ally. Screwed together ready for the milling to start. Only using 6mm because that's what I found in the shorts rack at work.. Will stick 2 pieces together on each side, once they are all machined up. Thought I'd make extras as I'm certain I'll chuck it down the track a few times..

Also decided on manufacturing my own brand of folding pegs. Probably won't be as light as most aftermarket ones, but I know they will be stronger..

Hopefully I'll be able to spend a whole day in the workshop soon working on my subframe. On that note I've learned the perils of attempting to bend thin wall chromoly with a pipe bender.. Wrinkle wrinkle.. So I guess I'll have to make a tube bender too hahaha.


hardout! if you come up with a mean good rear-set design you should open source that shit:shifty:, I need to make some new ones eventually.

You try filling the pipe with sand before bending? helps heaps.

[gatch]

hardout! if you come up with a mean good rear-set design you should open source that shit:shifty:, I need to make some new ones eventually.

You try filling the pipe with sand before bending? helps heaps.

Ha my rearsets will be pretty basic. I'm going for strength over style.. Function over form as it were.. Still I'll post something up when all is done.

And no I never thought to fill the tube before bending it. With the right bender it shouldn't be an issue..

[gatch]

Stayed behind at work today, made a cool tacho pod. It's very very light. Ran out of time however so will have to remove the excess material from the screw on base tomorrow.

Will make a mount out of either nylon or ally that sits on the top triple clamp between the forks.

Next on the menu, rear sets.

[TZ350]

.

Nice work, looks good.........

[gatch]

I tried to use the convex glass front from the old instrument cluster. The plan was to hold it in the lathe and attack SLOWLY with a super hard tip tool. But muppet me dropped it the floor in front of the lathe..

So I cut a bit of clear plastic from a donor cd case. Choice.

[gatch]

Got back to work this afternoon just after 4pm. Asked my foreman if it's ok to use the machinery as usual for a 1/2 hour or so. "No worries Dan" says he.

About 6.30the only light turned on is the one above the mill and there's only one other guy aside from me in the machine shop. He's only there cause he's waiting for me to go hahaha.

Anyway, made an industrial looking mount for the tacho to sit on the top triple clamp. I have to say, out of all the machinery parts, repairs/rebuilds I've ever done, this has to be the coolest piece I've made. Can't wait to rip into the rest of the bits and pieces I have in mind.

If only I had the same gear at home..

[gatch]

Foot pegs.

I've now got 12 pieces of 6mm ally bolted together and with all the edges milled so they are the same. Now to take some measurements and drill holes. If I can find a broach I'll make square holes so the pegs can't rotate (they will be folding so I think this matters). If I cant find a broach I'll fuckin make one. Piece of cake, I've done it before when I made some spring loaded bonnet pins for some old MG.

[TZ350]

.......If I cant find a broach I'll fuckin make one.....

Buckets....its where you learn how to make stuff......it's what I love about it.....good on you gatch.....

[F5 Dave]

Post pictures. gee I just drilled a hole & hit the corners with a triangle file to make it square.

[bogan]

mill a square hole and leave the corners rounded (then make the other bit to fit) is probably just as good at stopping rotation, and the lack of sharp corners would make it stronger too, course its a lot easier to get the other end to fit when you've got some CNC gear available :yes:

[F5 Dave]

yeah but when you've got a 10mm hole how sharp a radius are you going to cut a corner with that will make it square?

[bogan]

depends on tolerances, 5mm cutter doing a 10mm 'square' hole will still provide plenty of rigidity if its a snug fit i reckon.

[F5 Dave]

Peg folds up in race, you stand on it. It's now a lever. Steel in Ally.

And this is a bucket. How close are the tols going to be when it's time to go home & yer finishing a perky?:innocent:

[bogan]

with tight tolerances you may gain strength by having nice round corners due to the lack of stress raisers (ever wonder why airplanes don't have square windows?), and if it were me I'd make sure they were still up to snuff, (actually if it were me I'd cnc that shit and the machine would make sure the tolerances are tight as :bleh:)

[gatch]

with tight tolerances you may gain strength by having nice round corners due to the lack of stress raisers (ever wonder why airplanes don't have square windows?), and if it were me I'd make sure they were still up to snuff, (actually if it were me I'd cnc that shit and the machine would make sure the tolerances are tight as :bleh:)

My cnc is my arm ha ha.

I think a controller would probably shit itself if it had to deal with 700 microns of backlash in both x and y axis..


Post pictures. gee I just drilled a hole & hit the corners with a triangle file to make it square.

Fuck that. In the air force a few years ago, I spent 90hrs filing steel to make a little machine vice. I've had enough of filing haha. Now I have big angry machines to work for me :D



NOW, if I was going to make say a 1/2" square hole, I'd first drill a 13mm hole. Then take my handy piece of 1/2" assab and grind a wee radius (0.5 - 1.0 ish mm) on the edges. Shit if I was going to get carried away I might even grind it deeper further up for some clearance.. Then scallop the end so that only the very corners protrude, then line it up with my calibrated eye-o-meter and press it through the prepared 13mm hole.

And voila, hey presto, bobs your uncle, easy peasy japanesee and all that other jazz. We have square holes.

Yes, I've done this before, works in mild steel, so I see no reason it won't work in butter-soft commercial ally..

[gatch]

Managed to weasel my way into the machine shop this morning, to have another go at my bike while everyone else was working..

I put the ally parts to one side for now to try and get the rest of the sub frame tacked together. Which I did, at long last. Now next time I get a few hours I can just weld the bugger up, then get someone else to fix the bits I will probably bollix..

It looks pretty cool, plus its super light. Can't wait to see it back on the Spada once it's tig'd and painted..

[bogan]

you're just not posting enough pics! so here's one of mine :bleh: CNC ftw :yes:

<img src="http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll52/bogan229/P1010354.jpg" />

10 points if you can guess what it is

[gatch]

you're just not posting enough pics! so here's one of mine :bleh: CNC ftw :yes:

10 points if you can guess what it is

I'm living in the stone age... My machinery is old school, the tooling is only one step up from hand ground tool steel and I am STILL without a digital camera..

As for the CNC bits... The U shape piece maybe a tail piece bracket ? The other bit pinches up on something, anything to do with your electric bike motor voodoo ?

[bogan]

I'm living in the stone age... My machinery is old school, the tooling is only one step up from hand ground tool steel and I am STILL without a digital camera..

As for the CNC bits... The U shape piece maybe a tail piece bracket ? The other bit pinches up on something, anything to do with your electric bike motor voodoo ?

yeh, don't think I could ever go without CNC now, for the bros, mikuni vac fuel pump mount, and shock reservoir clamp. Hoping it'l fit in real nice under the seat/tank join.

[gatch]

Primo man. I've been trying to convince my boss that we NEED a nice 3 or 4 axis machining center. We have all these solid carbide cutters that are going to waste in our 1,400rpm (absolute max) mill.

It would certainly make all these home jobs I'm doing more fun..

[bogan]

Primo man. I've been trying to convince my boss that we NEED a nice 3 or 4 axis machining center. We have all these solid carbide cutters that are going to waste in our 1,400rpm (absolute max) mill.

It would certainly make all these home jobs I'm doing more fun..

yeh depends on the work you guys do I suppose, but that is fucking slow for carbides, our CNC is slow and that still runs at 8000, bed speed maxes out at 2.5m/min, which is just enough :D

Got a mate who built a little CNC mill for his final year project, not really much to them tbh.

[gatch]

Got a mate who built a little CNC mill for his final year project, not really much to them tbh.

I'd love one, you could use one of those little drill mill machines and marry up some stepper motors and controllers for all 3 axis yeah ?

AS for out mill, it's usually run at about 560 or 710 rpm, but we use BIG cutters. Up to 250mm wide and maybe 8mm cuts in mild steel. Maybe 200-300mm/min feed. We are nowhere near the optimum, but we have no choice. There is so much backlash on the bed, if you push too hard it just bounces about and wrecks your tips, or the job..

[saxet]

yeh depends on the work you guys do I suppose, but that is fucking slow for carbides, our CNC is slow and that still runs at 8000, bed speed maxes out at 2.5m/min, which is just enough :D

Got a mate who built a little CNC mill for his final year project, not really much to them tbh.

Do you know what sort of control system he used for that?

[bogan]

Do you know what sort of control system he used for that?

not exactly but can find out, I think it was a microcontroller based system running freely available firmware/software.

[gatch]

Here's a few pics, of the bits and bobs I've started on.. Tube subframe (with dodgy tig welding), tacho, ground front disc with new axle for crash bungs, swingarm crash bungs with ally lugs for paddock stand, prototyp of rearset foot pegs.

Also featured is some grime, aerosol spray paint and a seat that isn't held down in any way.

I looked at the wheels on the spada and found the front is 2.5in wide, while the rear is 4in wide, so I guess I won't be running slick on these rims..

[Buckets4Me]

thats starting to look good
what engine are you going to put in it ??

[gatch]

Will use a loncin I think.

After mucking about for AGES machining up bits and pieces, I want a motor that will (hopefully) start and run without any need for pulling it apart first.. Maybe at a later stage I could look at giving it some extra ponies, or start dabbling in the black magic voodoo that is 2 stroke tuning..

[Henk]

I looked at the wheels on the spada and found the front is 2.5in wide, while the rear is 4in wide, so I guess I won't be running slick on these rims..

Rear might be a bit wide but the ront should be fine. Majority of FXRs up here are running a 2.5 front and 3.5 rear. There are a few with a 3.75 rear which is better for the rear so you might even be ok with the rear if you fit a 120 instead of a 115

[Pumba]

GSXR rims are 2.5x17 and 3.0x17 arnt they:confused:

[Henk]

Quick trip to the garage confirms that I lied. 3 it is so 4 will be well wide.

[gatch]

Quick trip to the garage confirms that I lied. 3 it is so 4 will be well wide.

I thought that was the case.. So I'm limited to road rubber on the rear at least..

Might have to track down some 17 inch wire rims..

[Buckets4Me]

i have seen an rs125 pre95 with 4" rear rim and slicks
dont ask me what from

it also had a much bigger 4stroke single motor in it

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=309064598

I've added some more photos of the frame and motor installation. Also the front rim is a 3' Marchenisi and the rear is a 4' HRC wheel that came with the 94 RS125, both have Bridgstone slicks on which have done a track day and a test day.

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=309064598

[Kickaha]

GSXR rims are 2.5x17 and 3.0x17 arnt they:confused:

GSXR250 are those widths

[F5 Dave]

3" is what the older RS used to use. It was meant for 105 rears. But you can get away with a 115, like you (I) do. 3.5" is perfect for 115. 4" with a 120. hmm, you know it might be worth mounting a front 120 & seeing how it goes. I don't think it would depressurise being only 1/2" oversize rim.

But I wouldn't swear on it. The profile will likely be too flat for mega lean angles, but you don't know until you try & that might not be your riding style. Find a 3.5 if it doesn't work out. You will struggle to find spoked rims wide enough & cheap.

[speedpro]

3.5" rear rim with the front slick off a 600. Works for me and I got the tyre out of the bin at the shop

[Buckets4Me]

can you use the frount 120 in a 4" rear rim ???
that is the question
or where can you get a slick to fit a 4"rim (same as modern rs125's ???)

Karl M has plenty of frount tires

[gatch]

can you use the frount 120 in a 4" rear rim ???
that is the question
or where can you get a slick to fit a 4"rim (same as modern rs125's ???)

Karl M has plenty of frount tires

If there was such thing as a 130, it might work. Recommended rim size for dunlops 120 section super moto slicks is 3.5-3.75 wide.

I wonder if going with a higher (say 70 ?) profile tire for the rear may be a go.

[Yow Ling]

Just fit it and see how it goes, there are so many wrong fits on buckets that all seem to work. 120 superbike fronts on fxr rears, 95's on fxr rears all seem to work. Unless you are Rossi fast on your first day it isnt going to make much difference

[gatch]

Just fit it and see how it goes, there are so many wrong fits on buckets that all seem to work. 120 superbike fronts on fxr rears, 95's on fxr rears all seem to work. Unless you are Rossi fast on your first day it isnt going to make much difference

Yeah fair call. To be honest I'll probably kick around on the sport demons that are on there for a while, the rear one is almost brand new ha.

I'm such a spaz on a bike I probably won't make it out of B grade anyway..

[gatch]

I realize there must be a reason for 17" wheels being preferred over 18" on bike. All the manufacturers seems to favor them. I imagine it would have something to do with gyroscopic effect, less rotating mass etc.

My question is, how much better ? I mean If I could get my hands on some nice light 18" rims/race tires, would they be comparable to say the heavy standard alloy rims with a race slick ?

Just spit-balling here, no money is being changed hands etc. Just trying to explore my options for a my bucket project..

It's just I know there is Heidenau race tires available for 18" rims for $200 buck or so brand new. These being similar compound (so I'm told) to the Avon's that are on the Norton that I'm racing in the NZCMRR. I like these tires, they are sticky when they are cold..

[Henk]

Main reason for 17 inch rims is that you can run second hand 125 slicks. Sticky as at around $100 a pair. On a bucket a set will last most of a season if not longer.

[F5 Dave]

Nothing will compare to slicks, even old 2nd hand ones that a self respecting 125 rider would spurn. 18's are dead baby.

[Buckets4Me]

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Parts-for-sale/Wheels/auction-316819503.htm



there ya go

[gatch]

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Parts-for-sale/Wheels/auction-316819503.htm



there ya go

Thank you for that Buckets4me !

I know now that vtr rims are the good size for 120 section slicks.. Should be a piece of cake to find some at a wrecker somewhere a bit closer.

[Bert]

pop down and see Pete at Total motorcycles (pays to ring him first). he had a sh!t load of 17" last time I was down there. he's also a ex bucket racer (actually still has his/chris's rg50 framed xl sitting there in all its glory) and knows the game and is always interested in in what's going on and different bike builds...

[gatch]

pop down and see Pete at Total motorcycles (pays to ring him first). he had a sh!t load of 17" last time I was down there. he's also a ex bucket racer (actually still has his/chris's rg50 framed xl sitting there in all its glory) and knows the game and is always interested in in what's going on and different bike builds...

That's Pete Sales yes ? Yeah I know where he is.

After seeing the vtr wheel on tardme I had a look at what else is around. There is heaps of 250s that had 3.5in rims on them.. I would have thought they would be bigger or smaller than that but hey, I learned something.

[Bert]

yip. Pete Sales.

The VTR rim is quite a nice weight. I picked up a front from Pete, significantly lighter than stock FXR front (also a little bigger 2.25/2.5 i think??). the rear is also lighter then stock..

Basically all the Honda/yamaha 250 rims (vtr,cbr,fzr,tzr etc) are similar in sizes, so there are plenty of options around..

[gatch]

Got a bit of spare time in the workshop today. Couldn't find any 1/2" assab so experimented with some 3/8. I ground up the "broach" like i said, ie radius and relief the length of it. Scallop the ends so only the very edges are protruding.

Drilled a 10mm hole in an experimental piece of 6mm ally. Put it in the press and pushed the broach through no sweat. I think the only improvements I could make is to grind the scallop in further, to effectively increase the rake angle of the tool. As ally loves a good 30 degree or so rake when cutting..

Otherwise I think I'm onto a winner here.

Will track down a bit of 1/2" assab soon and grind up a nice one. Will attempt to post a pic.

[gatch]

Jeez it's been some time..

After the weekends h00ning at kaitoke I'm all fired up to get my spada rolling.

Found a GL145 on trademe in bits, needs bearings, seals, exhaust and carb.

Started making some clevis joints for folding foots pegs today. They will pretty much be unbreakable I think.

[TZ350]

Drilled a 10mm hole in an experimental piece of 6mm ally. Put it in the press and pushed the broach through no sweat. I think the only improvements I could make is to grind the scallop in further, to effectively increase the rake angle of the tool. As ally loves a good 30 degree or so rake when cutting..


Very clever, I like it............:niceone:

[all4A50s]

Jeez it's been some time..

After the weekends h00ning at kaitoke I'm all fired up to get my spada rolling.

Found a GL145 on trademe in bits, needs bearings, seals, exhaust and carb.

Started making some clevis joints for folding foots pegs today. They will pretty much be unbreakable I think.

say after me cbr cbr

[fi5hy]

say after me cbr cbr

say after me broken cbr cbr

[gatch]

say after me cbr cbr

No way man, that would be way too unfair on the competition..

Nar I'm keen to build my own, I like making stuff.

[gatch]

So, as of right now and much to the dismay of my female flatmate, there is a GL145 motor on my coffee table in need of assembling.

The plot thickens..

[gatch]

In a few hours of fiddling over the last few days I've managed to figure out 99% of the mechanical details. Only internal bits that I can see that need attention are new mains bearings, pressing the crank back together and warming the cam chain drive gear back on.

Courtesy of kb member "ezirider" I now know how the cam chain tensioner works. Simple stuff really. He's also hooking me up with a wiring diagram. Should have a (potentially) running motor by the end of the week..

I have a rough plan for mounting the motor, will dummy up some mounts using sheet steel, then once I'm happy, cut them out of some ally plate.

After that it's all in the details. Getting the little seemingly simple things to work, that's where the bulk of my time will go I know it.

[koba]

In a few hours of fiddling over the last few days I've managed to figure out 99% of the mechanical details. Only internal bits that I can see that need attention are new mains bearings, pressing the crank back together and warming the cam chain drive gear back on.

Courtesy of kb member "ezirider" I now know how the cam chain tensioner works. Simple stuff really. He's also hooking me up with a wiring diagram. Should have a (potentially) running motor by the end of the week..

I have a rough plan for mounting the motor, will dummy up some mounts using sheet steel, then once I'm happy, cut them out of some ally plate.

After that it's all in the details. Getting the little seemingly simple things to work, that's where the bulk of my time will go I know it.

Think alot about vibrations with your mounting.

[gatch]

Think alot about vibrations with your mounting.

They will all be good ?

[Str8 Jacket]

They will all be good ?

Not for long..... ;)

[gatch]

From what I've seen the mounts on most of these 150s are pretty minuscule, I'm certain the spada chassis will be able to handle the mighty GL.

[F5 Dave]

He means the thin long adaptor plates many have used seem to mysteriously break every 2nd meeting. Or at least that's when they notice the engine making a break for freedom. Plywood makes easy to cut templates.

[Henk]

Plywood makes easy to cut templates.

Templates? Not engine mounts?

[Str8 Jacket]

Templates? Not engine mounts?

Nah, they'll be sweet as mounts.....

[RDjase]

Nah, they'll be sweet as mounts.....

Marine ply lasts for 3 meetings:bleh:

[gatch]

He means the thin long adaptor plates many have used seem to mysteriously break every 2nd meeting. Or at least that's when they notice the engine making a break for freedom. Plywood makes easy to cut templates.

Ohhh, oh no mine won't be thin at all. I'll probably start with 20mm ally and work back from there.. Last thing I want is to pick my motor after fred flinstoning the bike around for a lap..

Yes plywood would be easier to make dummys out of huh, I think we have some dirty ol packing sheets around at work somewhere..

[gatch]

Sooo KB has come up Aces again for me.

I have managed to secure a complete gl145 (with engine trouble) for very little money. This gives me the few electrical bits and pieces I need to have the motor running asap. No McGyver antics for this bucket..

[koba]

Sooo KB has come up Aces again for me.

I have managed to secure a complete gl145 (with engine trouble) for very little money. This gives me the few electrical bits and pieces I need to have the motor running asap. No McGyver antics for this bucket..

U shid destoke it too 100 and pud a big turbo off a truck onnint wif a bigga intacoola

[Buckets4Me]

No McGyver antics for this bucket..Not yet anyway:devil2:


there you are I fixed the wording for you

[gatch]

there you are I fixed the wording for you

Yeah you are probably about right, considering my tool box mostly contains duct tape in various thicknesses and colors, a stone tied to the end of a stick and a few paper clips..

[Buckets4Me]

Yeah you are probably about right, considering my tool box mostly contains duct tape in various thicknesses and colors, a stone tied to the end of a stick and a few paper clips..

all you need now is a hacksaw and a file

[TZ350]

all you need now is a hacksaw and a file

230124

Thats about what we use.

230125

And here is our proven porting technique.......

[bogan]

And here is our proven porting technique.......

:lol: now that's some engineering flair :niceone:

[gatch]

Oooohhh I'm picking up the parts bike tomorrow, I can see friday turning into saturday and me not noticing..

[richban]

Dude the whole time I have had my FXR it hasn't sucked my balls! What am I doing wrong. Coz.................... well..... you know what I mean. Balls......... really!

[gatch]

So, 11pm tonight I get the parts bike in the shed. It had about 200ml of nasty swamp ooze in the case. Compression seems to be poor (only test I have is to stick my finger on the plug hole and kick it), gas is very stale. The electrics however seem to be healthy as there is a fat blue spark, from the old and new plugs I have.

When I get up I'll drain the carb, give it some fresh gas, put a liter of fresh oil in and try to start it. If it doesn't get going with some fiddling, the motor will be out and the head/cylinder off for inspection.

I fear a scarred up cylinder/fucked rings due to lack of oil.


Dude the whole time I have had my FXR it hasn't sucked my balls! What am I doing wrong. Coz.................... well..... you know what I mean. Balls......... really!

I'd just say your fxr isn't giving you the respect you deserve ? Does it go well with another.... rider..

[Buckets4Me]

Dude the whole time I have had my FXR it hasn't sucked my balls! What am I doing wrong. Coz.................... well..... you know what I mean. Balls......... really!


I dont know but I do remember it screwed you pretty well in 2009 :killingme

if i recall you where ridding her hard and she screwed you so bad you passed out :2thumbsup

[gatch]

Sooo. Couldn't get the motor to run, had the carb cleaned out, new oil. New plug, checked timing, points gap, valve clearances etc. So we pulled out the motor, the head cover came off clean, no damage there. The head comes off to reveal the intake side of the piston is smeared down the cylinder, with the rings on that side nicely seized in.

Was going to bastardize the best bests of both motors together but bent an oil ring when putting the barrel on. Garage door closed, time for a rum.

Or 7.

[gatch]

Went to the NZCMRR festival this weekend just passed.

Had an absolute blast on the #499 57 Norton Dominator, owned and McGyver'd by Chris Starr.

Improved my best lap by 6 seconds, managed a 1.15. Not bad I thought for my second time at that track. The fastest guys in the 500 modified class are doing 1.10 or so, so there is HEAPS of room for improvement in both myself and the bike, but it's not for the lack of effort.. I had a big front end slide in the esses and managed to hit another guy under brakes in the hairpin in another race..

Managed to win a graded scratch race (based on last years times), so Chris was happy, he is talking about building up a 1950s 350cc Douglas for clubmans competition and (if there is time and I think it's) a 1920s Scott 500cc 2 stroke. Complete with pushbike size wheels, girder forks and straight exhaust pipes. I told him ANYTHING he wants to build, I'll have a go at punting it around the track.

At his place this afternoon I spied yet another project of his, a "Levis" 2 stroke for pit bike duties. He has made up a frame with his only reference being some rather shabby photos. Very very cool. The man is the quintessential shed guy, nearly everything on his bikes is hand made or modified using something else that is kind of similar.

Anyway I digress.

TonyB has the piston kit I need, so as soon as I can pay the man, I'll get a motor together and see if I can make it go. Hopefully this weekend..

[gatch]

So I don't think I'll get my bike in a good enough state to ride by next weekend. Maybe by march 5 though for taumaranui..

This pic is hot off the press.

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=231492&d=1297238562

[all4A50s]

So I don't think I'll get my bike in a good enough state to ride by next weekend. Maybe by march 5 though for taumaranui..

This pic is hot off the press.

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=231492&d=1297238562

Your shivers of excitement down my spine with such a sexy looking racing machinery.

[Henk]

Maybe by march 5 though for taumaranui..



Try and make the effort, awesome weekend.

[gatch]

Your shivers of excitement down my spine with such a sexy looking racing machinery.

It's be about as fast as a sack of wrenches.. But at least it looks nice..


Try and make the effort, awesome weekend.

So I have been told man. I'm sure 2 of my mates will be taking their new bikes too, should be a good weekend mission. I'm keen as a bean.

[gatch]

Soooo.

2 months and little progress. As usual my squirrel brain has been distracted by many other shiny things. Few of them being motorcycle related. :facepalm:

But ! With the weather the way it is, I'll be forced into my shed more.

I am most of the way through dummy engine mounts. Making copies out of steel will be easy. One of the rear mounts will have to be moved, but I'm cool with that. I've decided that folding pegs are homo as, so I'll make hollow ally ones with the obligatory nylon bungs. I have a megaphone pipe to suit the gl motor. The stock gl carb seems to be quite big if I'm not mistaken ?

Motivation people, give it to me ! In legal tender form.. Go on then.

[Bert]

Soooo.

2 months and little progress. As usual my squirrel brain has been distracted by many other shiny things. Few of them being motorcycle related. :facepalm:

I've decided that folding pegs are homo as, so I'll make hollow ally ones with the obligatory nylon bungs.

Motivation people, give it to me ! In legal tender form.. Go on then.

get motivated easter is only weeks away...

Re: pegs, wellington kart boys demand folding; so as homo/silly as it is thats what is required if you want to race down there... though you had a solution for this anyway?

still want that piston?

[Buckets4Me]

I've decided that folding pegs are homo as, so I'll make hollow ally ones with the obligatory nylon bungs.


make them fold (you will probably find you cant race on the new track if you dont):facepalm:

and finish the dam thing

[fi5hy]

Make them fold matey I don't want to send you home for not having homo pegs

[Str8 Jacket]

Make them fold matey I don't want to send you home for not having homo pegs

Yes, but I would laugh.....

[gatch]

Gay with aids !

I do have a solution but I don't like it.

Sods.

[gatch]

still want that piston?

Yes, I'll still take it.

[gatch]

Have identified 5 things I would like to make at work tomorrow. Spacers for engine mount. Adapter plates (steel), adapter block for rear engine mount, front axle spacer and the fuel tank/tap adapter.

So much spacing and adapting. Adaption.

Almost like marriage, but more rewarding :innocent:

[gatch]

Sooo, I made some mounts out of steel today.. And left them on top of my tool box at work.. :facepalm:

Hopefully some of the team are hard at work tomorrow..

[gatch]

I have got the next 4 days off work, so that I can go to work and use the machinery to (hopefully), complete the fabrications and machinations on my spartan.

I'm nearly foaming at the mouth..

[gatch]

Started working on the rear engine mounts today. Got annoyed at the crap temporary stand I had thrown together. So I welded up a sweet paddock stand.

Then I dummied up the rear mounts with some packing sheet, transferred this across to a paper pattern, then laid them on our profile cutter and cut some out of 5mm steel. Drilled holes and deburred holes, VOILA. Studs all line up first time.

Have ordered some bright 10mm 4140 to make some proper studs. Tomorrow I tackle the spacers used to keep it all central, studs, rear brake and hopefully get onto making the gay with aids folding footpegs.

Picture tomorrow maybe.

[Kendog]

gay with aids folding footpegs..
What's wrong with folding pegs?

[gatch]

What's wrong with folding pegs?

Manufacturing them from scratch is much more work then making rigid pegs..

[F5 Dave]

Just buy some old 2nd hand honda brackets that have a square section. That gives you your folding bit & a spring too. Then make some pegs from bar, which is just two flats & a slot (if you want to use the spring) with a curve on the end & a hole for a pin & some knurling on the foot area. Ok maybe a hole in the end to push some nylon.

[gatch]

So here is where I am at, at the close of play today. Engine mounts and studs are all done. Loud looking second hand exhaust pipe is mounted. Throttle is hooked up. Fuel line/tap done. In current trim it weighs around 92kg. So when done I may still scrape in under 100kg..

236552

Tomorrow I need to..
- think about making a new intake manifold, as I foolishly over looked the angle the engine is mounted on.
- find the piece that bolts on to the clutch cover, that holds the outer part of the cable captive.
- reduce the wiring loom to the essentials only.
- FOOTPEGS.
- refit the rear brake in its entirety.

Time for a beer.

[gatch]

So I fabricated a new manifold today, it is a bit of a sharpish bend. BUT the carb now sits flattish and should work. Couldn't find the clutch cable retainer, so I made one. The wiring loom is about a 1/4 of its original size. Started on the rear brake but ran out of time. Ordered some chain and fitted that, turns out the sprockets are nicely lined up, chur.

Looks like the gear shifter will be good to hang straight of the motor, pointing backwards so will be "race pattern", all good there. Mounting the rear brake cylinder will be fun, I never use the back brake on the track but is a requirement, so on it goes. Am going to extend the front engine mount stud, to accept some crash bungs, to avoid damage to the engine cases when I bin it. Hopefully battery turns up tomorrow, might be able to mount all the wiring/coil/battery.

Watch this space.

[koba]

So I fabricated a new manifold today, it is a bit of a sharpish bend. BUT the carb now sits flattish and should work. Couldn't find the clutch cable retainer, so I made one. The wiring loom is about a 1/4 of its original size. Started on the rear brake but ran out of time. Ordered some chain and fitted that, turns out the sprockets are nicely lined up, chur.

Looks like the gear shifter will be good to hang straight of the motor, pointing backwards so will be "race pattern", all good there. Mounting the rear brake cylinder will be fun, I never use the back brake on the track but is a requirement, so on it goes. Am going to extend the front engine mount stud, to accept some crash bungs, to avoid damage to the engine cases when I bin it. Hopefully battery turns up tomorrow, might be able to mount all the wiring/coil/battery.

Watch this space.

Don't make those bungs too long, short is good - less leverage to destroy things then.

[gatch]

Don't make those bungs too long, short is good - less leverage to destroy things then.

Just you wait, I have an idea.. :corn:

[F5 Dave]

I use the rear brake on occasion & don't care who knows it.

[gatch]

So, today I got some footpegs and mounts made up and fitted. The brake is now attached too. Looks agricultural but fuck it.

Not much big stuff left to do now, sub frame still needs to be properly welded and I need to source a whole swag of bolts that are of better fit etc. But I can get the welding (shoddily) done tomorrow, plus get bolts on monday.

It's looking like a motorbike now..

[gatch]

So, my bike is at home in the shed. All cables are hooked up, gas is plumbed and wiring is hooked up well enough for a test.

It has fuel, it has a good spark and it has air. But it doesn't even make a pop or a bang. I have no idea why.

Please throw some ideas at me. I need inspiration.

[Ocean1]

I need inspiration.

Spray an imperial shitload of CRC ezy-start all over the plug cap and surroundings. Leap on bike and kick vigorously.




Edit: sorry, thought you said incineration.

[bogan]

ignition timing? compression? jetting?

[gatch]

The cam timing was out one tooth and now it at least pops, a little mist coming out the exhaust, so there is hope yet. Still doesn't run though.


ignition timing? compression? jetting?

Timing is all good so far as I can tell. The points are connected to the cam via a tiny key way, so if the cam timing is right, the points are too.

Compression is good, it's a freshly bored cylinder with new piston and rings. Feels crisp as when I turn it over.

Jetting should be in the ball park, it's a stock motor, excusing only the exhaust.

[Ocean1]

Float level OK?

[bogan]

if you got compression, cam timing, and a decent well timed spark, really only the fickle carby left. Piss with a few setting there, get to know her a bit better, should get there! as Ocean1 says, float height is worth checking, piss round with fuel screw a bit, make sure choke isn't sticking, etc etc. Is it electric or kick start? if the later a fast bump start may see some good results :yes:

[gatch]

Float level OK?


if you got compression, cam timing, and a decent well timed spark, really only the fickle carby left. Piss with a few setting there, get to know her a bit better, should get there! as Ocean1 says, float height is worth checking, piss round with fuel screw a bit, make sure choke isn't sticking, etc etc. Is it electric or kick start? if the later a fast bump start may see some good results :yes:

I'm not entirely savvy on how to determine the correct float height. The carb does sit on a slight angle, maybe 5 degrees or so from horizontal. Otherwise the float height would be the same as it was when it was running last (I bought he motor in pieces and have assembled it myself.......)

The choke is just a wee lever on the side of the carb, have tried it in all 3 positions and it seems to make no difference.

It has no starter motor, or kick starter shaft. I left the starter shaft out as it weighs around 2 kg.. So I have been tried to bump start it in the drive way.

I'd kill for a set of rollers right now ha.

[Ocean1]

New manifold. If that's got even a small gap somewhere it'll produce those symptoms.

If the beast's mechanically good and the spark's healthy then it's fuel. Pound to a pinch of shit it's either a vacuum leak or a blocked jet.

What's the carb?

[Henk]

Don't assume that the float level is right just because you haven't played with it.
Michelle bought a DT125 years ago that was supposed to be a runner that had the float level so far out that there was only ever 5mm of fuel in the bowl, max, fixed that and away she went.

[Ocean1]

If it's the typical Mikuni the float level will be 20mm.
Drop the float bowl and gently lift the float up until the valve tops out, (did I say gently?) Measure from the bottom of the floats to the bowl mount face. Bend the wee tab that bears on the valve to change it.

From memory the idle circuit can fuck you up a bit. Take the adjustment screw out and blow the hole out, screw it back in again until it bottoms out. Anywhere between 2 and 3 turns out should work.

[bogan]

another option to check correct float operation (not very precise for level measurements though) is to stick a tube and the carb drain and bring it round beside the carb, drain enough so that the tube has no air bubbles an you will be able to see the liquid height.

It think the floats will be designed so that there can be a lot of tilt on the carb before the level the jets see changes significantly so I wouldn't worry about that.

Not being able to kick it over at standstill make it a bit difficult to check for leaks, visual inspection and a tub of high temp silicon may be easiest just to ensure there is no chance of em at all!

I don't have an abundance of plans this arvo so could probably come have a look if you're still having issues.

[Yow Ling]

is the spark at the top of the compression stroke or the exhaust stroke, some engines allow you to make this mistake.

[gatch]

WELL.

It runs.

My buddy had the idea of jacking his car up to use the spinning front wheel, as a roller to spin the bike wheel. Worked a treat with some adjustment.

We changed the standard Keihin carb, to a "KNG" knockoff. It made no difference. I thought maybe the timing was a few degrees advanced so I knocked it back. Made no difference.

But after turning it over for ages with the chur bro car/roller, it coughed and backfired a few times, then it ran..

The thing I noticed was inside the points cover there is a fair bit of dust after only a few minutes running. The points gap was set at about .35mm as is laid out in the xr manual.

Throttle response is poos, so maybe there is a pin hole in my newly welded manifold. Also it has no airbox right now, so I will investigate that. I don't know what the jetting is like as this KNG carb main jet has no number on it. The standard GL carb is a little bigger so I'll put it back on tomorrow and see what happens. You can buy keihin jets off trade me for $7 each, so I may order a selection.. Unless someone in palmy has a few lying about ???

Other wise I'm fuckin stoked. There is still some work to be done yet, but after having done everything on this bike myself, I am now seeing some result. Chur howard.

To be continued.

P.S cheers for all the suggestions.

[gatch]

is the spark at the top of the compression stroke or the exhaust stroke, some engines allow you to make this mistake.

Not on this one. The points rotor is located on the end of the camshaft with a little key way.

[bogan]

haha, good work with the starter. I have a few different size mains #138 -#168 and some 45 pilots you can try if they are in the right range. But you should be able to get it idling all good by adjusting air screw and setting float heights etc. You got a condenser/capacitor on the coil? as it's job is to prevent points wear.

[gatch]

haha, good work with the starter. I have a few different size mains #138 -#168 and some 45 pilots you can try if they are in the right range. But you should be able to get it idling all good by adjusting air screw and setting float heights etc. You got a condenser/capacitor on the coil? as it's job is to prevent points wear.

Far out, toooo big man. The stock GL jet is 105. I have a few jets turning up for my vfr but the smallest of those is 118..

And yes there is a condenser.

One of the funniest things about it is the amount of the wiring loom that is left. A wire that connects the points, the coil and part of the charging system (which will soon contain the push to kill switch) and a couple of earth wires.

[Henk]

(which will soon contain the push to kill switch)

You might want to make that a switch to kill switch to stay inside the rules. Pedantry I know but most of the work I have done to our bikes has been to avoid any last minute bodgery if somebody gets anal at scrutineering at some stage.

[bogan]

Far out, toooo big man. The stock GL jet is 105. I have a few jets turning up for my vfr but the smallest of those is 118..

And yes there is a condenser.

One of the funniest things about it is the amount of the wiring loom that is left. A wire that connects the points, the coil and part of the charging system (which will soon contain the push to kill switch) and a couple of earth wires.

thought that may be the case, I could almost just use a hose to get enough fuel to my 647cc of fury :p

was actually thinking bout getting another #162, if you find a good supplier let me know.

old school simple looms, easy to wire, easy to hotwire too!

[speedpro]

You got a condenser/capacitor on the coil? as it's job is to prevent points wear.

Not quite. Actually it's job is to form a resonant circuit with the primary winding of the coil when the points open. By luck it also reduces arcing across the points extending their life.

[gatch]

You might want to make that a switch to kill switch to stay inside the rules. Pedantry I know but most of the work I have done to our bikes has been to avoid any last minute bodgery if somebody gets anal at scrutineering at some stage.

Fair call. Switches of most kinds from dick smiths are around $4 I think. Should put a residential looking light switch on it for comedy value..


thought that may be the case, I could almost just use a hose to get enough fuel to my 647cc of fury :p

was actually thinking bout getting another #162, if you find a good supplier let me know.

old school simple looms, easy to wire, easy to hotwire too!

How's this ?

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Parts-for-sale/Complete-engines/auction-369311253.htm

On the Norton race bike, we have Amal size 700s on there. It's just a 500cc motor hahaha, ludicrous..