BIKEGEARWAREHOUSE concern [Archive]

Robert Taylor

17th March 2010, 19:48

Guess a few of you might have had dealings with these guys but, I ordered and paid for some exhaust items in mid Jan ( Close to $1500 and paid for) and I get the feeling I'm being fobbed off. Still have'nt arrived and I'm told they might be delivered now sometime in April ( Originally told mid Feb or thereafter ). Been over 2 months now and could be 3 till I get them. have any of you guys done done business with them and, how reliable are they ? .......I get the feeling , increaslingly,...that I may be another subject of a big rip-off ....not happy ...

Quite caside from the fact you didnt support local its probably because the exhaust manufacturer is out of stock and they are awaiting raw material and scheduling in production. This happens all the time with all sorts of manufacturing. Get used to it, its got worse since China decided to make more than rice and firecrackers, they are raping most of the worlds raw materials and creating big supply headaches for many traditional long standing manufacturers.
Delivery dates are a whole load less reliable than in years past. Also, many manufacturers got rid of staff as the recession bit, they just dont have the capacity to supply quickly anymore.
Be patient ( its a virtue ) and dont be so free with an emotive statement like ''big ripoff'' Thats unfair, even though I dont have time for BGW.
I checked availability with Ohlins Sweden on a shock that a customer ordered, as little as 2 weeks ago. They had stock but in the intervening hours in which the customer firmly committed they sold out to other distributors. Next production is 6 weeks away. Thats just the way it is

R6_kid

17th March 2010, 19:49

kwaka_crasher

17th March 2010, 19:53

Quite aside from the fact you didnt support local...

In which case you probably wouldn't even be the slightest bit worried yet... 2 months is very early days for anything ordered local... :laugh:

Robert Taylor

17th March 2010, 20:01

In which case you probably wouldn't even be the slightest bit worried yet... 2 months is very early days for anything ordered local... :laugh:

Not blanketly true and very symptomatic of the emotive simplistic nonsense posted on this site. Ive explained some of the problems with supply from the manufacturers themselves, did you not understand or do you refuse to believe it? Being a national distributor I think I have a reasonable understanding and took the trouble to explain some of the reasons why things like this happen.

Robert Taylor

17th March 2010, 20:04

Just out of interest what was the exhaust system which you spent $1500 on? That sort of shite service is just plain unacceptable. I've never had to wait longer than 5 working days for any item to arrive from the USA via Ebay.

One day you just might order something from the US and there will be a wait for reasons beyond their control. Will that be just plain unacceptable as well? Or have too many of us not been taught patience from toddler upwards?

kwaka_crasher

17th March 2010, 20:09

Not blanketly true and very symptomatic of the emotive simplistic nonsense posted on this site. Ive explained some of the problems with supply from the manufacturers themselves, did you not understand or do you refuse to believe it? Being a national distributor I think I have a reasonable understanding and took the trouble to explain some of the reasons why things like this happen.

Neither did I fail to understand nor believe it.

I was just having a humourous dig at your humourous dig by dispensing some of my own anecdotal evidence based on some of my personal experiences of trying to get the clowns that work in the motorcycle parts industry here to do anything other than just turn up and eat their fucking lunch! :rofl:

R6_kid

17th March 2010, 20:11

If there has been no reasonable explanation given then it's unacceptable. Regardless of whether it came through NZ, Australia or the USA. At least with Ebay and PayPal I can hold the payment until the goods arrive.

Yesterday I paid $120 to get a new throttle cable made up, and one inner cable replaced - a 20min job max. I paid in advance and I'm still yet to hear from the shop to say that it's done.

When it comes to items that require specialist technical information then I'm happy to buy local and get support. If I can buy an exhaust system from the USA for $600 and get in 5 days, versus paying $1200 and waiting two weeks to get it locally which one do you think I'm going to choose? Would you seriously take the $600 mark-up just to support local business?

Surely if the goods aren't available, then having a deposit from the customer rather than the full amount would be more appropriate?

325rocket

17th March 2010, 20:20

then theres the fact that a lot of 'local suppliers' tend to piss and moan and generally make dealing with them hard work.

SMOKEU

17th March 2010, 20:49

That waiting period is completely unacceptable after paying that much cash. The people at the shop should have said "I'm sorry, but we don't have that product in stock. I can take your phone number, and order the product now from the supplier and I will call you once it arrives" or "We can order it for you if you give us a 10% deposit".

grusomhat

17th March 2010, 20:53

Post in the BGW forums or email the admin. It's a horrible feeling waiting for something that you've already paid big money for, and not knowing what's happening sucks.

PirateJafa

17th March 2010, 20:55

Yesterday I paid $120 to get a new throttle cable made up, and one inner cable replaced - a 20min job max. I paid in advance and I'm still yet to hear from the shop to say that it's done.

More fool you - best policy is to NEVER pay bike shops up front.

When it comes to items that require specialist technical information then I'm happy to buy local and get support. If I can buy an exhaust system from the USA for $600 and get in 5 days, versus paying $1200 and waiting two weeks to get it locally which one do you think I'm going to choose? Would you seriously take the $600 mark-up just to support local business?

And don't any of you think he is joking with his example - I was quoted the EXACT same figures in NZ, s I bought from the USA for half the local price. Local businesses can wank on about running costs, staff costs, rent and all that if they like. And that is fine, and a reasonable markup is acceptable. But double the cost? You've gotta be joking.

scott411

17th March 2010, 21:38

looks like they are treating there customers now like they treated the dealers when they were wholesale only, alot of missed deadlines that were promised,

i would ask for an immediate refund if you have paid up front for it,

Robert Taylor

17th March 2010, 21:59

More fool you - best policy is to NEVER pay bike shops up front.

And don't any of you think he is joking with his example - I was quoted the EXACT same figures in NZ, s I bought from the USA for half the local price. Local businesses can wank on about running costs, staff costs, rent and all that if they like. And that is fine, and a reasonable markup is acceptable. But double the cost? You've gotta be joking.

And youve made the assumption that bike shops make huge margins.

Would the industry you work in sustain close scrutiny? I think there are potentially a lot of people on this forum who live in glass houses and throw stones.

Its also more than a little unfair to tar all motorcycle dealers with the same brush.

Robert Taylor

17th March 2010, 22:04

More fool you - best policy is to NEVER pay bike shops up front.

And don't any of you think he is joking with his example - I was quoted the EXACT same figures in NZ, s I bought from the USA for half the local price. Local businesses can wank on about running costs, staff costs, rent and all that if they like. And that is fine, and a reasonable markup is acceptable. But double the cost? You've gotta be joking.

And on the flipside there are plenty of bike shops who havent taken deposits and are left holding the baby with non returnable goods that they often die with.

Yes certainly you should keep people informed and be proffessional but there are ALWAYS two sides to a story.

As I eluded to previously the supply cahains and lead times from manufacturers are by no means foolproof. But its always a little inconvenient to hear the truth of the matter.

Everybody on here that complains are obviously all perfect in their chosen vocations.

Howie

17th March 2010, 22:18

if you click on the link on the page about any any of the products that they are out of stock of, but well back order it leads to This page (" http://www.bgw.com.au/showthread.php?t=1038" ) which gives a fair indication of what is happening with their back orders. I would say that meets keeping customers reasonably informed.

AllanB

17th March 2010, 22:19

And on the flipside there are plenty of bike shops who havent taken deposits and are left holding the baby with non returnable goods that they often die with.

A while back a dealer had XX bike in the window in a unusal colour - they had a customer order it and wanted it painted a particular colour which they did - come delivery time he did not complete the deal and the bike was up again discounted due to the paint!

2 weeks ago a big name CHCH car dealer had a sale on - two cars I'd been looking at sold, a week later they were back. Apparently in both cases the buyers wifes packed a sad..... full refunds were give on deposits and the legal contracts the purchasers had signed were ripped up. Kudos to the dealer as many hours were wasted no doubt.

BGW have a note if pipes are out of stock and you can check on the ETA of stock there too. I have been watching the Hornet pipes on there - out of stock since Xmas.

Ask for the bulk of your $ back and have them retain a reasonable deposit with balance payable on stock arrival. I'd be surprised if they did not consider this fair.

firefighter

17th March 2010, 22:21

Quite caside from the fact you didnt support local

Pffft. I'm still trying to get money back from motorcyclegear.co.NZ from a month ago on an item not in stock but on the companies front page, it was still on the front page 13 days later. (to be clear, no new stock would be coming in to replace it)

My only bad experience with an internet transaction and it was local. Oh and it's been the worst communication ever too. Literally 7 days for a reply at times. The 0800 No. does'nt even exist and good luck ringing the other no. it will ring for days....... I have about 10 different emails to and from and am close to using the diputes tribunal. I always from overseas companies have had a reply within a day, and i'm pretty sure they are far busier than this N.Z shop, which for christs sake is in the same damn City...... Which also funnily enough is actually listed under the new Yamaha shop in Glenfield. So here's your warning away from them all of you if this is how they run their business! Fuck that. I seriously would'nt reccommend it, they are really a hastle.

Even after explaining how the shitty communication is really pissing me off, I still have an un-answered email from 3 days ago.......

So much for local huh?

(I usually do buy local when it's economically viable or I need expert/technical help)

PirateJafa

17th March 2010, 23:04

IdunBrokdItAgin

17th March 2010, 23:56

And youve made the assumption that bike shops make huge margins.

Would the industry you work in sustain close scrutiny? I think there are potentially a lot of people on this forum who live in glass houses and throw stones.

Its also more than a little unfair to tar all motorcycle dealers with the same brush.

I've read your posts on a couple of threads now and you come across as a reasonable voice in the NZ bike industry.

But, the whole premise of prices in NZ is a bit eschewed.

In simple business terms:
Wholesalers should theoretically be able to purchase items for the cost of the manufacturers price (which is the manufacturers cost plus a premium).
Retailers should theoretically be able to purchase items at the wholesalers price (which is the wholesalers cost plus a premium).
Consumers purchase at the retailers price (which is retailers cost plus a premium).

What we see time and time again is consumers being able to purchase, by importing, the EXACT same items for far less than the the local retail price.

This would allude to the retail/ wholesale margins being too high or just sloppy wholesale importing by wholesalers. But, if it was the later, the consumer generally doesn't see the flip side (reduced local cost versus import cost) when the wholesaler has imported at a favorable (versus present) exchange rate.

It's all a bunch of bull when it gets down to it. Something is amiss if the consumer can consistently import at a lower cost than the local retailer.

NZ exporters (which are mainly dairy) moan to fuck when the exchange rate goes against them and put up the price of butter/ milk etc in the local market to cover costs (as if it is somehow subsidising local prices which is also bull but that is a side issue). But you never hear a word when a beneficial exchange rate movement goes in their favour.

Switch the positive and negatives around and you have wholesale importers.

What is truly happening is that NZ consumers are becoming savvy to the rort of wholesalers charging when they lose out but not discounting when they make gains. This is the true reason of why you are seeing more and more of the consumers bypassing both the local retailers/ wholesalers and sourcing direct either from the manufacturers or off-shore retailers.

For me the whole NZ retail/ wholesale model needs an overhaul or it will just fade away. I started another thread on trading hours and was quite simply amazed at the push back of industry people who (in my mind) are unable to grasp the concept of modern business practices.

Elysium

18th March 2010, 04:41

Took three weeks for my TBR exhausts to be manufactured in US, packed, shipped to Auckland and then shipped to me. That time frame you have been told is utter crap and should never take that long.

Armitage Shanks

18th March 2010, 06:58

Took three weeks for my TBW exhausts to be manufactured in US, packed, shipped to Auckland and then shipped to me. That time frame you have been told is utter crap and should never take that long.

I agree, the items I looked at were actually advertised as being in stock so, on that basis I clocked my order in. It was about three weeks later that I visited the chat forum on their website to be told sorry, they were'nt actually in stock but the order had been processed and I should see it arrive early Feb. More delays followed; last week they told me I should see it no later than this week, yesterday I'm told the order has'nt actually left the US yet so maybe sometime in April ?

I agree with supporting local business and all that but, why should I pay $1000 more and still have to wait 8 weeks from my local Bike shop ? Still, I'm increasingly starting to wake up to the fact that I may well never see my exhaust hardware. Caveat Emptor and all that I guess, I'll see how I go with a refund but don't fancy my chances .

Robert Taylor

18th March 2010, 08:40

Took three weeks for my TBW exhausts to be manufactured in US, packed, shipped to Auckland and then shipped to me. That time frame you have been told is utter crap and should never take that long.

You havent listened, these pipes may well be out of stock EX MANUFACTURER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

R6_kid

18th March 2010, 09:30

Everybody on here that complains are obviously all perfect in their chosen vocations.

I'm wash dishes for a living so it's not too hard.

I'd be a brave man to work in the NZ Motorcycle industry.

dipshit

18th March 2010, 09:32

its got worse since China decided to make more than rice and firecrackers, they are raping most of the worlds raw materials and creating big supply headaches for many traditional long standing manufacturers.

This is true. China is sucking up an awful lot of the world's raw materials at the moment. But if they did stop now it would kill the world economy that is already on a knife edge. Forestry and mining in NZ would die overnight for starters.

But yes, it is also creating demand and supply problems for industry. In mining there is a severe shortage of big tyres for earth moving machinery because China is buying so many with the large-scale development it is doing. The couple of tyre factories that make the really big stuff simply can't keep up with worldwide demand. New CAT trucks get delivered without tyres and mines need to source their own. In Australia large mining companies are hiring helicopters to fly around in looking at smaller mines to find ones that have a stockpile of tyres and then buy out the smaller company just to get the tyres.

mazz1972

18th March 2010, 11:03

Consider that NZ is a TINY market in comparison to overseas. I would expect our wholesalers and thus retailers have much less buying power than those in the US, UK, Europe and even Australia, and therefore run on tighter margins. Hence higher prices for some items? Because our market is so small, items of very low sales volume are not kept in stock by wholesalers.

On the odd occasion we have had to order parts which have had to be sent from overseas (ie. not part of a general shipment to NZ therefore spreading cost of freight) the freight has been more than the cost of the part.

Back to the original post.....sure it's frustrating to have to wait because the item was actually out of stock, but it sounds like BGW are almost certainly at the mercy of the manufacturer.....who maybe had unforeseen delays in manufacturing, or perhaps the production was not scheduled for a few weeks. BE PATIENT!!

Also consider that when sent to you, if the exhaust is declared at the price you've paid, you will likely be stung by NZ Customs for GST because the item is over NZ$400. If you ask BGW very nicely they may be prepared to send the invoice separately and declare the package value at less than NZ$400.

Lurch

18th March 2010, 16:15

The lesson here is, don't buy stuff that isn't in stock.

Robert Taylor

18th March 2010, 17:47

Pffft. I'm still trying to get money back from motorcyclegear.co.NZ from a month ago on an item not in stock but on the companies front page, it was still on the front page 13 days later.

My only bad experience with an internet transaction and it was local. Oh and it's been the worst communication ever too. Literally 7 days for a reply at times. The 0800 No. does'nt even exist and good luck ringing the other no. it will ring for days....... I have about 10 different emails to and from and am close to using the diputes tribunal. I always from overseas companies have had a reply within a day, and i'm pretty sure they are far busier than this N.Z shop, which for christs sake is in the same damn City...... Which also funnily enough is actually listed under the new Yamaha shop in Glenfield. So here's your warning away from them all of you if this is how they run their business! Fuck that. I seriously would'nt reccommend it, they are really a hastle.

Even after explaining how the shitty communication is really pissing me off, I still have an un-answered email from 3 days ago.......

So much for local huh?

(I usually do buy local when it's economically viable or I need expert/technical help)

In no way am I an apologist for shonky service but there is one thing I can relate to, keeping on top of answering e-mails.

Sometimes it will be 4 or 5 days before I can answer e-mails, especially if I have been away at an event for 3 days and it has absolutely trashed me.

Big overseas companies have enough turnover that they have a better ratio of staff to enquiries, or someone dedicated to e-mail. Its simplistic to think that companies in NZ are slack, often its because they have to run on a shoestring and cannot afford the extra cost in staff to answer enquiries more quickly, FACT.

Robert Taylor

18th March 2010, 18:03

I've read your posts on a couple of threads now and you come across as a reasonable voice in the NZ bike industry.

But, the whole premise of prices in NZ is a bit eschewed.

In simple business terms:
Wholesalers should theoretically be able to purchase items for the cost of the manufacturers price (which is the manufacturers cost plus a premium).
Retailers should theoretically be able to purchase items at the wholesalers price (which is the wholesalers cost plus a premium).
Consumers purchase at the retailers price (which is retailers cost plus a premium).

What we see time and time again is consumers being able to purchase, by importing, the EXACT same items for far less than the the local retail price.

This would allude to the retail/ wholesale margins being too high or just sloppy wholesale importing by wholesalers. But, if it was the later, the consumer generally doesn't see the flip side (reduced local cost versus import cost) when the wholesaler has imported at a favorable (versus present) exchange rate.

It's all a bunch of bull when it gets down to it. Something is amiss if the consumer can consistently import at a lower cost than the local retailer.

NZ exporters (which are mainly dairy) moan to fuck when the exchange rate goes against them and put up the price of butter/ milk etc in the local market to cover costs (as if it is somehow subsidising local prices which is also bull but that is a side issue). But you never hear a word when a beneficial exchange rate movement goes in their favour.

Switch the positive and negatives around and you have wholesale importers.

What is truly happening is that NZ consumers are becoming savvy to the rort of wholesalers charging when they lose out but not discounting when they make gains. This is the true reason of why you are seeing more and more of the consumers bypassing both the local retailers/ wholesalers and sourcing direct either from the manufacturers or off-shore retailers.

For me the whole NZ retail/ wholesale model needs an overhaul or it will just fade away. I started another thread on trading hours and was quite simply amazed at the push back of industry people who (in my mind) are unable to grasp the concept of modern business practices.

iI hear what you are saying and can see both sides of the coin. There are some shocking realities and Ive done these to death in previous posts, including;

Wholesalers in big economies such as the US have better buying power and often get better prices off the manufacturers

They operate on very thin margins and high turnover, a far fetched dream for NZ distributors

The exchange rate against $US makes it rather too easy for offshore purchases

Many privately imported goods come in under the radar and dont attract GST on the fob value of the goods, EDR fees, MAF fees, port fees etc and GST on all of those
And then theres also the matter of invoice falsification....

Legitimate distributors have advertising costs to promote the product ( and the parasites effectively feed off the profile created ) They also have compliance costs, infrastructure costs and stocking costs etc. Ad infinitum. They also pay all clearance costs and gst. Hardly a level playing field...........

A jerk ( and I make no apology for saying that ) had the temerity to say ''wanking on''. It really illustrates how much ignorance there is out there about the real cost of running a business in this country.

In a small economy the ratio of business running costs is really not that good against returns, compared to a large economy with infinitely more customers, FACT.

In reality the whole wholesale and retail etiquette thing is seriously under threat, the negative by product being that its going to erode the convenience of popping down to the motorcycle dealer just around the corner. If you need technical help its not going to be on your doorstep.

What will ''Kiwi bleaters '' make of that???

98tls

18th March 2010, 18:16

Fwiw on the Customs thing posted a few posts back these days customs are well onto things and the implications for both the sender and receiver if caught are fairly hefty,cant say that over the years i havent been happy to accept the mucking about with value thing but these days dont be surprised if whatever dealer you buying off refuses to do it.I chose to pay the GST on a set of Carrozzeria rims i received recently despite the offer of mucking about with the value,Customs fuck about enough already i can only imagine how long it would take (if at all) to get stuff which they discover has been de-valued not to mention a hefty fine for someone if not both ends.

Robert Taylor

18th March 2010, 18:25

Took three weeks for my TBW exhausts to be manufactured in US, packed, shipped to Auckland and then shipped to me. That time frame you have been told is utter crap and should never take that long.

I think you should develop an understanding of manufacturing before you shoot from the hip.....

mazz1972 has clarified parts of the issue very well. Especially the bigger manufacturers have to schedule production months in advance as no manufacturer has unlimited production capacity. Especially when there are hundreds of product lines. You cannot just rejig the production line at the snap of ones fingers because there is a guy bleating from an insignificant market at the bottom of the world ( well thats how they might look at it ) Many manufacturers also have subcontractors that make specialist parts and its dependent on those subcontractors supplying on time, and also those subcontractors being supplied suitable material on time. And a manufacturer of high quality products ( such as Ohlins ) have a quality inspection department inspecting incoming components from subcontractors. For example for many months last year we werent recieving MX steering dampers from Ohlins and many customers were screaming at us for them. The reality was that Ohlins were constantly unhappy with the stability of the tolerance of the main body parts they were recieving from the subcontractor. In turn the subcontractor was having very real issues sourcing high enough quality material because of a worldwide shortage of same. Created by China!!!!!!!!!! Lesson, it only takes one cog in the machine to fail and it all turns to shite.
It also makes good economic sense to slightly underproduce, then you dont have to discount off excess stock at the end of season, negatively impacting on your balance sheet

jellywrestler

18th March 2010, 18:28

who live in glass houses and throw stones.

.

isn't it "people who live in glass houses should have sex in the basement..."

Robert Taylor

18th March 2010, 19:08

isn't it "people who live in glass houses should have sex in the basement..."

Especially if they are ugly and cannot sell the video rights, yes.

You know its funny, I get asked if fitting Ohlins suspension makes a bike safer. I then answer ''well yes, but it then allows you to crash at a higher speed'' Thats worth the humour of looking at the expression in response....

Robert Taylor

18th March 2010, 19:12

I think you should develop an understanding of manufacturing before you shoot from the hip.....

mazz1972 has clarified parts of the issue very well. Especially the bigger manufacturers have to schedule production months in advance as no manufacturer has unlimited production capacity. Especially when there are hundreds of product lines. You cannot just rejig the production line at the snap of ones fingers because there is a guy bleating from an insignificant market at the bottom of the world ( well thats how they might look at it ) Many manufacturers also have subcontractors that make specialist parts and its dependent on those subcontractors supplying on time, and also those subcontractors being supplied suitable material on time. And a manufacturer of high quality products ( such as Ohlins ) have a quality inspection department inspecting incoming components from subcontractors. For example for many months last year we werent recieving MX steering dampers from Ohlins and many customers were screaming at us for them. The reality was that Ohlins were constantly unhappy with the stability of the tolerance of the main body parts they were recieving from the subcontractor. In turn the subcontractor was having very real issues sourcing high enough quality material because of a worldwide shortage of same. Created by China!!!!!!!!!! Lesson, it only takes one cog in the machine to fail and it all turns to shite.
It also makes good economic sense to slightly underproduce, then you dont have to discount off excess stock at the end of season, negatively impacting on your balance sheet

Lead times for product are if anything going to increase. Manufacturers operate on very tight single figure nett profit and to that end manufacturing is always a big risk. Now more so in a recession hit world where operating costs have to be trimmed. To that end many manufacturers have cut staff and so have their supplying contractors. Lowering capacity to supply quickly even further.
Dont bleat because there aint a thing you can do about it, get used to it.

AllanB

18th March 2010, 20:12

Big overseas companies have enough turnover that they have a better ratio of staff to enquiries, or someone dedicated to e-mail. Its simplistic to think that companies in NZ are slack, often its because they have to run on a shoestring and cannot afford the extra cost in staff to answer enquiries more quickly, FACT.

I agree 100% with you here.
I often get numerous e-mails daily that do not get responded to immediately - often several days.

Why?

Simple, you could easily spend a half day responding to them at the expense of your core business and consequently miss established deadlines.

Because e-mails pop-up on the spot and are often read immediately they often gain an importance well beyond their content. You need to train yourself to prioritise them and respond when required.

Robert Taylor

18th March 2010, 21:12

I agree 100% with you here.
I often get numerous e-mails daily that do not get responded to immediately - often several days.

Why?

Simple, you could easily spend a half day responding to them at the expense of your core business and consequently miss established deadlines.

Because e-mails pop-up on the spot and are often read immediately they often gain an importance well beyond their content. You need to train yourself to prioritise them and respond when required.

Yep, and if people are so urgent telephone is also another option, as long as they are coherent in the language.

Renegade

18th March 2010, 22:10

emails can be answered anywhere in the world via a cell phone these days aye...

The Pastor

18th March 2010, 22:16

Robert Taylor

19th March 2010, 07:45

nah, you don't know shit aye......

Apparently, everyone complaining on here is an expert and knows all the fixes.

Robert Taylor

19th March 2010, 07:46

emails can be answered anywhere in the world via a cell phone these days aye...

Indeed they can, sometimes I curse my blackberry, sometimes its a blessing.

Headbanger

19th March 2010, 09:29

Because e-mails pop-up on the spot and are often read immediately they often gain an importance well beyond their content. You need to train yourself to prioritise them and respond when required.

You still need to respond to them (all) in a timely manner, If I don't get a response within a day then the company is off the list. They are certainly less immediate then a phone call but we all know how bad form it is to not answer the phone.

Elysium

19th March 2010, 10:50

You havent listened, these pipes may well be out of stock EX MANUFACTURER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I know what you said. My point being the customer should never suffer such a delay that long no matter who's fault it is. Angry customers will go else where and tell five other people about the service the got.

I'm currently having an issue with my exhaust from TBR and I see that Motorxparts in Aucks has given TBR the flick because hey got tired of TBR dithering around with accepting fault as it is clearly a manufacturer error and the time they are taking to send out parts to fix the issues that me and others have. Like I said, companies must ensure the customer is happy and they get the goods in a reasonable time frame.

Unlike TBR, the Auckland bike shop has kept me up to date with emails, phone calls and how I should not have to suffer costs because of the issue I'm having and so I'm happy to deal with these guys again. Don't take this personaly as I'm stating an important reminder that having pissed off customers is never a good thng.

Robert Taylor

19th March 2010, 12:21

You still need to respond to them (all) in a timely manner, If I don't get a response within a day then the company is off the list. They are certainly less immediate then a phone call but we all know how bad form it is to not answer the phone.

Thats totally unrealistic to expect e-mails to be answered within a day, in many businesses its just not possible. If you are more urgent pick up the phone.

Headbanger

19th March 2010, 12:30

Thats totally unrealistic to expect e-mails to be answered within a day, in many businesses its just not possible. If you are more urgent pick up the phone.

Well, I hate to say it but the retailer doesn't get to dictate to the buyer as to what is most suitable.

Seeings as its 2010 I can fire off a single email to a dozen retailers (here and overseas, As I have said in previous threads the market is now international, living in denial or protesting the fact doesn't change it) Check the replies at a time that suits me and based on the replies decide what my next step will be.

Those that don't reply (in a timely manner) miss out on my business.

But thats just me, Others have different expectations.

BGWGeoffrey

19th March 2010, 12:45

Guess a few of you might have had dealings with these guys but, I ordered and paid for some exhaust items in mid Jan ( Close to $1500 and paid for) and I get the feeling I'm being fobbed off. Still have'nt arrived and I'm told they might be delivered now sometime in April ( Originally told mid Feb or thereafter ). Been over 2 months now and could be 3 till I get them. have any of you guys done done business with them and, how reliable are they ? .......I get the feeling , increaslingly,...that I may be another subject of a big rip-off ....not happy ...

G'day Armitage Shanks

I am very happy to assist, as we do with hundreds of customers a week.

Have you emailed us , or tried to contact us via our live support?

Please send me an email at: geoffrey@bikegearewarehouse.com.au

I will be happy to check on the status of your order and hopefully resolve this for you promptly.

What I can say at the moment is that production times from the USA has increased, due to the economic downturn. Many businesses, even the big ones, over there are still hurting and are climbing out by cutting costs where they can. It's not just the manufacturers, but their materials suppliers as well, it is all a chain. When one is delayed by a week, that can flow down to being a four week delay for us.

I will admit that our Yoshimura orders are taking a bit longer than previously, but by working closely with companies like Yoshimura we are resolving this. Within the next month we have many large shipments due that will ensure that customers will not have to wait for their purchase.

Please send me the email as soon as you can. We aim to get the majority of emails sent to us answered within 1 working day.

Cheers
Geoffrey

scott411

19th March 2010, 12:53

Thats totally unrealistic to expect e-mails to be answered within a day, in many businesses its just not possible. If you are more urgent pick up the phone.

i disagree with you Robert in the a case of an online retailer, i think a weekday to answer an email is expectable, however in what you do i think a few extra days is more than acceptable,

kwaka_crasher

19th March 2010, 14:21

Thats totally unrealistic to expect e-mails to be answered within a day, in many businesses its just not possible. If you are more urgent pick up the phone.

It takes little effort to acknowledge receipt of an email though.

AllanB

19th March 2010, 14:35

It takes little effort to acknowledge receipt of an email though.

A receipt is one thing ' thank you for your e-mail, I will respond shortly'

Expecting everything answered within one working day is often unrealistic. In many businesses (where I work included) there is often only one person with the relevant knowledge or authority to respond.

If that person has a really bad case of diarrhea then it is unlikely you'll hear back within 24 hours ......

kwaka_crasher

19th March 2010, 15:12

Robert Taylor

19th March 2010, 16:11

A receipt is one thing ' thank you for your e-mail, I will respond shortly'

Expecting everything answered within one working day is often unrealistic. In many businesses (where I work included) there is often only one person with the relevant knowledge or authority to respond.

If that person has a really bad case of diarrhea then it is unlikely you'll hear back within 24 hours ......

Exactly right, the world has become now now now and I think many people now have unreasonable expectations. I endeavour to answer everything as quickly as possible. And many of those answers are neccessarily very detailed. Sometimes Im answering e-mails at 10, 11, even 12 midnight. Id like a life as well but the reality is we are fighting on a less than level playing field with companies in the US.

Robert Taylor

19th March 2010, 16:15

i disagree with you Robert in the a case of an online retailer, i think a weekday to answer an email is expectable, however in what you do i think a few extra days is more than acceptable,

Yes, fair point with straightforward goods. As you suggest a lot of what we do is less than straightforward and is very time consuming. I can turn up in the morning and have e-mails that may take me up to 2 hours, but I need those 10 hours of my day to do physical work. So its that night if I have the energy. Even then there are e-mails that need an answer from a supplier / manufacturer before I can answer completely.
Small businessmen reading this will relate 100% to that.

Robert Taylor

19th March 2010, 18:00

Well, I hate to say it but the retailer doesn't get to dictate to the buyer as to what is most suitable.

Seeings as its 2010 I can fire off a single email to a dozen retailers (here and overseas, As I have said in previous threads the market is now international, living in denial or protesting the fact doesn't change it) Check the replies at a time that suits me and based on the replies decide what my next step will be.

Those that don't reply (in a timely manner) miss out on my business.

But thats just me, Others have different expectations.

If you lose your job / livelihood because your customers are dealing largely overseas and dont have any patriotism to your fellow countrymen DONT GRIZZLE ABOUT IT, BECAUSE YOU HELPED TO FEED IT.
There are people that look at the bigger picture, rather than just their own pocket.

Robert Taylor

19th March 2010, 18:11

G'day Armitage Shanks

I am very happy to assist, as we do with hundreds of customers a week.

Have you emailed us , or tried to contact us via our live support?

Please send me an email at: geoffrey@bikegearewarehouse.com.au

I will be happy to check on the status of your order and hopefully resolve this for you promptly.

What I can say at the moment is that production times from the USA has increased, due to the economic downturn. Many businesses, even the big ones, over there are still hurting and are climbing out by cutting costs where they can. It's not just the manufacturers, but their materials suppliers as well, it is all a chain. When one is delayed by a week, that can flow down to being a four week delay for us.

I will admit that our Yoshimura orders are taking a bit longer than previously, but by working closely with companies like Yoshimura we are resolving this. Within the next month we have many large shipments due that will ensure that customers will not have to wait for their purchase.

Please send me the email as soon as you can. We aim to get the majority of emails sent to us answered within 1 working day.

Cheers
Geoffrey

Thankyou Geoffrey for confirming what I have been saying to the disbelievers on this forum. Very often of course the information from manufacturers is less than accurate because there is uncertain information from in turn their subcontractors.
You then as the onseller get pressured by the customer to give an accurate revised ETA, even though you cannot say with 100% certainty. So you look bad even though its almost totally out of your control. I had this situation with Ohlins MX steering dampers through much of last year. Ohlins kept rejecting successive deliveries of sub components because they werent meeting their exacting standards, so the delivery dates kept being revised backwards.
You are damned if you do and damned if you dont. The one thing that is certain is that people best get used to these extended lead times etc, its not going to get better in a hurry.
You can certainly in situations find out about human nature and how ''simpletons'' who refuse to believe the sound reasons will bag you at every opportunity

Kickaha

19th March 2010, 18:31

I made no mention of margins. They may not be making a profit on the product at all for all I know - but a 100% markup is laughable in the modern world. This planet is a lot smaller now than it once was

100% markup? just because it costs double here doesn't mean any such thing, have you ever worked in retail?

In mining there is a severe shortage of big tyres for earth moving machinery because China is buying so many with the large-scale development it is doing. The couple of tyre factories that make the really big stuff simply can't keep up with worldwide demand. New CAT trucks get delivered without tyres and mines need to source their own. In Australia large mining companies are hiring helicopters to fly around in looking at smaller mines to find ones that have a stockpile of tyres and then buy out the smaller company just to get the tyres.

There's way more than a couple of factories building that stuff and some of those were being extended, those shortages should be getting less and less and nowhere near as bad as 12-24 months ago

Headbanger

19th March 2010, 19:07

If you lose your job / livelihood because your customers are dealing largely overseas and dont have any patriotism to your fellow countrymen DONT GRIZZLE ABOUT IT, BECAUSE YOU HELPED TO FEED IT.
There are people that look at the bigger picture, rather than just their own pocket.

Yeah, we have been over that, and its not relevant to the current topic.

Of course I could point out that your position on the big picture is all about your own pocket but I won't.

Robert Taylor

19th March 2010, 19:19

Yeah, we have been over that, and its not relevant to the current topic.

Of course I could point out that your position on the big picture is all about your own pocket but I won't.

And youd be wrong of course, if it was all about my own pocket Id actually be wealthy. If it was all about my own pocket I wouldnt have lent full Ohlins suspension for YMNZ to go Superstock racing with Tony Rees. If it was all about my own pocket I wouldnt dispense a lot of free advice on this forum in the suspension threads. And so on.

Please advise what you contribute?

Headbanger

19th March 2010, 19:35

Please advise what you contribute?

Contribute to what?, Your pocket, Nothing so far. :blink:

The point I was making was that raging against a market change isn't the big picture, The big picture is the market has changed (as it always does) and that those companies that can continue to provide what customers want in the face o this shift in the market (whether that be price, service, or a combination of both) have a better chance of surviving, no matter what part of the world they may be in.

Anyway, I'm not interested in being sucked into the market argument again, People will spend their coin where it suits them best, end of story.

IdunBrokdItAgin

19th March 2010, 19:39

iI hear what you are saying and can see both sides of the coin. There are some shocking realities and Ive done these to death in previous posts, including;

Wholesalers in big economies such as the US have better buying power and often get better prices off the manufacturers

They operate on very thin margins and high turnover, a far fetched dream for NZ distributors

The exchange rate against $US makes it rather too easy for offshore purchases

Many privately imported goods come in under the radar and dont attract GST on the fob value of the goods, EDR fees, MAF fees, port fees etc and GST on all of those
And then theres also the matter of invoice falsification....

Legitimate distributors have advertising costs to promote the product ( and the parasites effectively feed off the profile created ) They also have compliance costs, infrastructure costs and stocking costs etc. Ad infinitum. They also pay all clearance costs and gst. Hardly a level playing field...........

A jerk ( and I make no apology for saying that ) had the temerity to say ''wanking on''. It really illustrates how much ignorance there is out there about the real cost of running a business in this country.

In a small economy the ratio of business running costs is really not that good against returns, compared to a large economy with infinitely more customers, FACT.

In reality the whole wholesale and retail etiquette thing is seriously under threat, the negative by product being that its going to erode the convenience of popping down to the motorcycle dealer just around the corner. If you need technical help its not going to be on your doorstep.

What will ''Kiwi bleaters '' make of that???

Good response. Makes me see it a little bit more from the NZ bike industry's point of view.

Ta.

Robert Taylor

20th March 2010, 09:19

Contribute to what?, Your pocket, Nothing so far. :blink:

The point I was making was that raging against a market change isn't the big picture, The big picture is the market has changed (as it always does) and that those companies that can continue to provide what customers want in the face o this shift in the market (whether that be price, service, or a combination of both) have a better chance of surviving, no matter what part of the world they may be in.

Anyway, I'm not interested in being sucked into the market argument again, People will spend their coin where it suits them best, end of story.

You seem to be insinuating that I am a big bad capitalist, which I am not. In my own instance I am adapting to the market ( otherwise you wouldnt survive ) But its still relevant to point out as I have that its not a level playing field out there. That is conveniently overlooked by many and I also make the point that many purchasers care little about the welfare of our own countrymen, more and more who are effectively being pushed into meaningless jobs as a result of the open market. That may be hard to quantify but there has to be more than a grain of truth.
I am not a socialist by any means but Id rather see money going into locals pockets than to the US and Asia. I apologise for caring about our country.

Robert Taylor

20th March 2010, 09:21

Good response. Makes me see it a little bit more from the NZ bike industry's point of view.

Ta.

Cheers for that, the whole argument is relative to most industries in NZ.

Headbanger

20th March 2010, 09:22

No such thing as a level playing field in any industry.

Meaningless jobs?, All work is worthy.

Robert Taylor

20th March 2010, 09:33

No such thing as a level playing field in any industry.

Meaningless jobs?, All work is worthy.

Ho hum, simplistic responses to decent arguments doesnt cut the mustard. Now please get off my window, you are smearing it

Squiggles

20th March 2010, 09:48

Ho hum, simplistic responses to decent arguments doesnt cut the mustard. Now please get off my window, you are smearing it

Epic. :lol: </10chars>

Headbanger

20th March 2010, 10:59

Ho hum, simplistic responses to decent arguments doesnt cut the mustard. Now please get off my window, you are smearing it

Meh, The thread wasn't about you until you once again made it the case. Perhaps you would be better off answering those pesky customer emails in a timely manner rather then preaching about a local protected market(to suit you) to people more then intelligent enough to make an informed decision on where there money goes.

The bug isn't on your windscreen.

Robert Taylor

20th March 2010, 15:27

Meh, The thread wasn't about you until you once again made it the case. Perhaps you would be better off answering those pesky customer emails in a timely manner rather then preaching about a local protected market(to suit you) to people more then intelligent enough to make an informed decision on where there money goes.

The bug isn't on your windscreen.

Who is preaching? Ive seen just as much intelligence on this thread as Ive seen lack of.

Headbanger

20th March 2010, 15:30

Lets just pretend I never said I expected timely e-mail responses from NZ retailers and move on.

Armitage Shanks

20th March 2010, 18:26

Robert Taylor

21st March 2010, 15:04

Lets just pretend I never said I expected timely e-mail responses from NZ retailers and move on.

All good! By and large I think I respond in reasonable time, most of the time. Its a little more involved with the techo stuff that we do, as Scott411 eluded.

firefighter

22nd March 2010, 09:26

A bit of a belated reply but nevertheless....

As a web-only company, leaving customer equiries that long is not on. Remember the company is just online. No showroom or anything.

Cycletreads manages to respond within a couple of hours....and they actually have a shop with customers walking in.....
I am reasonable I do'nt expect the whole world to implode and to be smothered in attention, but to illustrate my point, I still have'nt heard back from them today.........(I'm serious)

I do'nt care how small staff numbers are, that is bloody shite. You ca'nt seriously ask N.Zers to pay shitloads more than the amount they'd pay overseas and to just put up with WORSE service?! There has to be some sort of bonus for spending the extra cash surely? There has to be some sort of meeting in the middle? You must surely agree with that.

I do see how it could take a bit longer for you, as mentioned above giving technical advice etc, which is appreciated! And when enquiring about something techhy you do'nt mind waiting a little longer, as you know there's more information to research etc. But your not just selling clothing and bags, if you were I would think you'd respond a bit quicker.

In no way am I an apologist for shonky service but there is one thing I can relate to, keeping on top of answering e-mails.

Sometimes it will be 4 or 5 days before I can answer e-mails, especially if I have been away at an event for 3 days and it has absolutely trashed me.

Big overseas companies have enough turnover that they have a better ratio of staff to enquiries, or someone dedicated to e-mail. Its simplistic to think that companies in NZ are slack, often its because they have to run on a shoestring and cannot afford the extra cost in staff to answer enquiries more quickly, FACT.