Mt Eden Motorcycles - Not going there again

[tcpdump]

I had to do the WOF and oil change for my bike and somebody recommended these guys.
All nice and smooth although $150 for a change of oil seemed a bit steep since $90 was just the labor (1.5 hours to drain the oil and put new one. whatever).
I could do it myself but I didn't have the proper tools.

Anyway, the next day I took my wife's bike for an identical operation. She has a '99 Honda Rebel.
Same price. Looked at the invoice: "oil filter - $10".
Since the Rebel doesn't have an oil filter I asked the guy why am I being charged for one. He mumbled something and he called somebody else.
He said and I quote: "Eh, I thought the bike has an oil filter, this is why it's on the invoice but not to worry, I'll make another invoice without the oil filter".

So, if I wasn't aware of this they would have ripped me off. I don't care about the $10, I care about the fact that who knows what else they "think" the bike might have. The gesture, not the money.

I wonder if they really changed the oil or they just thought they did it.

So I'd advise avoiding Mt. Eden Motorcycles if you can.

Anybody can recommend an honest guy that can do simple maintenance on bikes (like oil change) at reasonable prices and maybe also Warrants of Fitness?

Thanks.

[Jonno.]

1 and a half hours to change the oil :gob:

[tcpdump]

What can I say, just moved to Auckland. I used to pay in Wellington $40 for a change of oil (including the oil!) for my car (2.5L Honda inspire - for sale btw) :)
Imagine my surprise here jumping from $40 for a car to $150 for a bike.

[Quasievil]

And I assume and Hope that you have discussed this issue with Mt eden M/C before coming on here and saying all this ??

[Bald Eagle]

What can I say, just moved to Auckland. I used to pay in Wellington $40 for a change of oil (including the oil!) for my car (2.5L Honda inspire - for sale btw) :)
Imagine my surprise here jumping from $40 for a car to $150 for a bike.
Auckland oil is special.

[vifferman]

90 minutes to do the oil change? What - to undo a drain bolt and filter, go off and work on another bike, then come back, refit bung and new filter, and fill with oil? I can do an oil change on my VFR in WAAAY less than 90 minutes, even if I decided to remove/replace some fairing panels to do it (which would add less than 15 minutes to the task).

[Crasherfromwayback]

I may well be wrong...but I think your Rebel will have an oil filter.

[tcpdump]

And I assume and Hope that you have discussed this issue with Mt eden M/C before coming on here and saying all this ??

M/C ? I assume Management?

No, I didn't. It's unlikely that a complain will change anything. I know I shouldn't think like this but I gave up trying to change the world a while back.

[sinfull]

I may well be wrong...but I think your Rebel will have an oil filter.
Be somewhat worried if it didn't lol

[tcpdump]

I may well be wrong...but I think your Rebel will have an oil filter.

Hehe, I looked the guy in the eyes. He knew it doesn't have and that I caught him trying to rip me off. He admitted it in less than one second, he didn't even wondered if it has it or not, he said: "yes, you are right".

[tcpdump]

Be somewhat worried if it didn't lol

It doesn't.
http://www.google.co.nz/search?q=honda+rebel+oil+filter

[Crasherfromwayback]

Hehe, I looked the guy in the eyes. He knew it doesn't have and that I caught him trying to rip me off. He admitted it in less than one second, he didn't even wondered if it has it or not, he said: "yes, you are right".

They should've cleaned the screen then perhaps.

[tcpdump]

They should've cleaned the screen then perhaps.

They charged on the invoice: "oil filter $10". I told them: "but it doesn't have an oil filter". Answer: "oh mate, you are right, I thought it has one, I'll make you another invoice without the oil filter".

They did not charge for cleaning that mesh or magnet or whatever replaces the oil filter, they charged for a new oil filter.

[Usarka]

They should've cleaned the screen then perhaps.

Or replaced it.... Maybe they did.

Fuck me if I wouldn't call a "screen that filters oil" an oil filter.....

Maybe the guy you confronted was happy to lose $10 rather than get into an argumentabout the semantics of what is and what isn't a filter.

[bogan]

did you ask why the 90 mins? could have just been a 9min clerical error or something. I had a similar experience but I bloody well asked why the labor was so high, turns out they had done a lot more than I asked, and head mechanic had to stand there stirring some acid for half an hour too apparently.

[tcpdump]

Or replaced it.... Maybe they did.

Fuck me if I wouldn't call a "screen that filters oil" an oil filter.....

Maybe the guy you confronted was happy to lose $10 rather than get into an argumentabout the semantics of what is and what isn't a filter.

On that google page I gave earlier:

The 250 Rebel doesn't have an oil filter. It has an oil screen. The screen doesn't have to be cleaned until you do major engine repair.
Just change your crankcase oil often, as per the suggestion of your owners manual

IT doesn't have an oil filter and all you have to do is drain the oil and put new one. The bike has 8,000 miles on the clock so it's almost new.

[tcpdump]

did you ask why the 90 mins? could have just been a 9min clerical error or something. I had a similar experience but I bloody well asked why the labor was so high, turns out they had done a lot more than I asked, and head mechanic had to stand there stirring some acid for half an hour too apparently.

I took two bikes and on both of them there was 90 min labor.
Also, on the invoice there was stated: "The VT250 could benefit from a full service". So nothing except the oil was done.

Maybe they are really slow and it takes them 90 minutes to change the oil for non-technical (or computer guys like me) people.

[tcpdump]

Just as a note, I don't argue the 90 minutes for the labor.

I argue the fact that they tried to charge for a change of a non existent oil filter. And their admittance of doing so by "thinking it had one".

[sidecar bob]

I took two bikes and on both of them there was 90 min labor.
Also, on the invoice there was stated: "The VT250 could benefit from a full service". So nothing except the oil was done.

Maybe they are really slow and it takes them 90 minutes to change the oil for non-technical (or computer guys like me) people.

I do a FULL service on a late model European car for a labour charge of 1.5 hours & theres some fat in that too.

[tcpdump]

I do a FULL service on a late model European car for a labour charge of 1.5 hours & theres some fat in that too.

If you also do warrant of fittness, I'll gladly visit Tauranga for the day ;)
Oh, and if I have a 97 japanese car it's a bit cheaper I assume? :)

[bogan]

Just as a note, I don't argue the 90 minutes for the labor.

I argue the fact that they tried to charge for a change of a non existent oil filter. And their admittance of doing so by "thinking it had one".

personally i'd be more concerned about the 90mins for labour, the $10 for the filter is proabably just a standard charge on all oil changes, as almost all bikes do have one.

[Mully]

What can I say, just moved to Auckland. I used to pay in Wellington $40 for a change of oil (including the oil!) for my car (2.5L Honda inspire - for sale btw) :)
Imagine my surprise here jumping from $40 for a car to $150 for a bike.

Motorcycle oil is generally more expensive than car oil - for some reason, so I don't think that's a good comparison. Plus the way some of these guys drain car oil (i.e. quickly, before it's all drained) I wouldn't dream of doing to a bike.

I would suspect that it's a standard charge and that the person raising the invoice probably didn't do the spanner spinning.
"Oil - X litres @ $X"
"Filter - 1 @ $X"
"Spark plugs (for example) - 4 @ $X"

I'd suggest that more bikes would have a filter than wouldn't.

Go buy the tools and do it yourself - it'll probably pay for itself after one or two changes.

[vifferman]

I took two bikes and on both of them there was 90 min labor.
Maybe they are really slow and it takes them 90 minutes to change the oil for non-technical (or computer guys like me) people.
I suspect that they don't actually record how long an oil change takes - just have a standard 90 minute charge for it. You can guarantee that as soon as they've got the drain bolt out, they're going to leave the bike and go and do something else, not stand there waiting for it to drain. It'd be fair enough if the "something else" was checking the rest of the bike over, lubing and adjusting whatever needed doing, but it probably wasn't.
Look, for the cost of 180 minutes of labour, and the markup on the oil, you could easily buy yourself the tools you need to do it yourself next time. Two sockets (assuming the bikes have different sump plugs), a socket wrench handle, an oil filter wrench (assuming you can't do it with your hand, which is what I do), a drain pan, and some rags and you're set. :niceone: You will even have some money left over for congratulatory beers. If you want to get a bit fancier, a funnel for a couple of bucks (or make one from the neck of a softdrink bottle), some disposable latex gloves for a few shekels, and some brake cleaner to make sure the oil on your zorst is all cleaned off.
Even buying unnecessarily expensive oil, my oil changes cost less than $100 (filter is less than $20, oil ranges from $35 to $100, depending on what you buy. Usually, it doesn't take a full pack, so after three or four changes there's enough that you don't need to buy oil for the next one).

[Chrislost]

1 and a half hours to change the oil :gob:

If one had to remove fairings, do the change, and replace fairings it may take an hour...
3L of oil (for a gsxr 750) costs about 38 - 45 bux.
filter 20 odd.

[kwaka_crasher]

Hehe, I looked the guy in the eyes. He knew it doesn't have and that I caught him trying to rip me off. He admitted it in less than one second, he didn't even wondered if it has it or not, he said: "yes, you are right".

Too be fair the guy that did the invoice might not himself know jack shit. That said though, he should be working off a jobsheet and not charging for things that weren't actually used.


And I assume and Hope that you have discussed this issue with Mt eden M/C before coming on here and saying all this ??

Given that he says he spoke to them and they re-invoiced removing the filter... I would say yes.


M/C ? I assume Management?

No - motorcycles.


1 and a half hours to change the oil :gob:

Pretty good scam, eh...

[Virago]

The practice of padding out accounts with "liitle extras" is fairly widespread in the motor industry.

Most accounts for the service of one of our cars will invariably have something like "Bars Bugs - $5.00" on the bill, when I know damn well that they haven't used any.

They work on the basis that very few people will query such small amounts - and that includes me most of the time.

[breakaway]

Yeah this sort of stuff happens.

I've noticed that 9 times out of 10, bike shops can and will screw you for stuff like this, unless you know them really well (i.e. bring a lot of business, or bought a bike from them).

Alternatively go have a bitch about it. I once took a friend with me that's good at bitching, and reduced the cost of the job from $400 to about $280.

I do everything I can at home. Things such as carb balancing, tyre changes, checking valve clearences (stuff I don't have tools for) are done RELUCTANTLY at bike shops.

I've even had an event where a certain bike shop forgot to put a rear wheel spacer back in after a tyre change. The guy came running out of the shop as I was about to shoot off for my 20 minute motorway journey home. God knows what would have happened if he hadn't caught me on time.

If I had the time or the inclination I'd do everything myself. But most times it's simply not practical.

[bogan]

The practice of padding out accounts with "liitle extras" is fairly widespread in the motor industry.

Most accounts for the service of one of our cars will invariably have something like "Bars Bugs - $5.00" on the bill, when I know damn well that they haven't used any.

They work on the basis that very few people will query such small amounts - and that includes me most of the time.

Thats why I DIY everything, and If they try that shit with the parts I get off them then I go somewhere else, international shipping is a wonderful thing!

[kwaka_crasher]

Yeah this sort of stuff happens.

I've noticed that 9 times out of 10, bike shops can and will screw you for stuff like this, unless you know them really well (i.e. bring a lot of business, or bought a bike from them).

In which case they're probably screwing you on an even larger scale...

Basically, you're saying you have prove your loyalty to the shop before you get treated honestly...

[breakaway]

Basically, you're saying you have prove your loyalty to the shop before you get treated honestly...

Yes. And why should I have to? If they treat me like shit and rip me off, I'll go elsewhere. If they treat me well, I will come back and recommend their place to others who got screwed by other shops.

[tcpdump]

So, would you please recommend an honest shop?
Thanks.

[sidecar bob]

If you also do warrant of fittness, I'll gladly visit Tauranga for the day ;)
Oh, and if I have a 97 japanese car it's a bit cheaper I assume? :)

Yep, do W.O.F too. Not nesacarily cheaper to do jappas, its a case of having product knowledge & stock for the brand in question & lining them up & ripping through them.
The best garage for your vehicle, bike or car, is an enthusiastic independent specialist.

[Insanity_rules]

I may well be wrong...but I think your Rebel will have an oil filter.


Be somewhat worried if it didn't lol


They don't apparently, they have an oil screen that you slip out and clean. Bizarre huh?

[yachtie10]

Yes. And why should I have to? If they treat me like shit and rip me off, I'll go elsewhere. If they treat me well, I will come back and recommend their place to others who got screwed by other shops.

this is the way it should work

when i bought my new bike I didnt calculate the cost of shop serviceing to keep the warranty
I have had to argue about every bill sepecially the oil charges

for some reason the oil my bike needs 3.2l costs more than a 4 litre take home pack from the same place
once the warranty runs out i will do myself

[Crasherfromwayback]

They don't apparently, they have an oil screen that you slip out and clean. Bizarre huh?

So I see. Bad idea!

[Insanity_rules]

So I see. Bad idea!

I've had a CMX 250, I gather thats a rebel? Honda cruiser style thing and low and behold........ No bloody oil filter. Can't say as I had it long enough to tell if it was a bad idea but it must work somehow. But 90 Minutes to change the oil jesus, takes me 45 to do a change on the Duc and that includes taking off the fairing and waiting for the oil to drain.

[Crasherfromwayback]

I've had a CMX 250, I gather thats a rebel? Honda cruiser style thing and low and behold........ No bloody oil filter. Can't say as I had it long enough to tell if it was a bad idea but it must work somehow.

Well having now been told they don't have one...I'd be wary of a higher k's one! A lot of shit from clutch plates and gears etc ends up in your oil...and no filter ain't so great! Depends on how fine the screen is...but a filter is still better.

[The Stranger]

1 and a half hours to change the oil :gob:

Hey, don't knock it, took both p.dath and cr1m1nal several days to do this.

[p.dath]

Hey, don't knock it, took both p.dath and cr1m1nal several days to do this.

My first oil change took me about 4 to 6 hours to complete. No shit. I had the written instructions in the owners manual, and just followed those. Bit of a learning experience.

I spent about 2 hours figuring out how to take the fairings off (and another 2 to put them back on). I was very carefull to note where all the screws, bolts and rivets went (helps when putting everything back together!). Part way through I discovered I needed a crush washer, and had to try and get one of those.


I'm down to taking about an hour now. Have figured out how to do it by only removing one fairing which makes it much faster. I have a small bag of crush washers, lots of spare rivets (find they are sometimes easier just to throw away).

[Mudfart]

I had my car nicked and recovered. It was parked up in my driveway, I called an autoelectrician to reconnect the horn and indicators wouldnt atuo off, when i put the old steering wheel back on. Yes my steering wheel was hacked off.
He quoted 230$ and claim several hours labour. I refused, and did it myself.
The first nut took 12 seconds to remove, second nut 10 seconds, reattach the horn wire, put it back together, job done in less than 1 minute.......
Always try and do the work yourself i reckon, unless its a service for warranty purposes.
If it has to go to the shop, talk about the engine or parts in detail, the grease monkeys cant be fucked listening, but get the idea you know your cars/ bikes, and wont charge you like when they see old maids pulling in.

[Ragingrob]

$20 will buy ya a tool set that will allow you to change your oil :)

[EJK]

Kiwis invented this really useful tool called "DIY" because they couldn't afford the labour.

Which is a good thing!

[avgas]

Hold up..........why didn't you do your own oil change?
Something tells me you a pedantic fucker who just gets pissed off for all kinds of reasons.
If you don't do it yourself, you are paying someone else for what ever they say to do the job. Doesn't matter if they say "Filter" or "kicked it 42 times and then poured beer in the exhaust" if you don't like it do it yourself.
I mean its only changing oil.

[kwaka_crasher]

If you don't do it yourself, you are paying someone else for what ever they say to do the job.

No. You're paying someone else to do what they say they did. Clearly in this case they said they did something that they could not possibly have done and charged for it...

[breakaway]

So, would you please recommend an honest shop?
Thanks.

There isn't. Find someone who has had a lot of business with a certain shop, and get them to take you into the shop and introduce you.

Alternatively learn to do all the simple stuff like oil changes yourself. It's really not difficult. Might seem like it but after doing it 2-3 times you'll wonder what all the fuss is about.

[kwaka_crasher]

There isn't. Find someone who has had a lot of business with a certain shop, and get them to take you into the shop and introduce you.

But remember! They have to introduce you by saying "This is (insert nickname here - like say "Johnny Tightlips"). He's a friend of OURS". Otherwise you aren't 'in'. :killingme

[avgas]

But remember! They have to introduce you by saying "This is (insert nickname here - like say "Johnny Tightlips"). He's a friend of OURS". Otherwise you aren't 'in'. :killingme
haha no not really.
Approach is everything. Walk in with a smile to pick up bike, when they give you bill ask politely (like a noob) "What is this for"......
Mechanics can be quite nice if you don't walk in with an attitude like "What the fuck, that bike doesn't have filter...."

[Headbanger]

I'd suggest "WTF, you fuckin arsehole, there is no filter, You can stick your bill right back up your arsehole, I'm not paying the fucker, and I'm gonna tell the world your a rip off cunt. Fuck you"

[Cayman911]

Mate you got ripped off bad. they are wrong in the first place because normally they come upto you and say "It will be this much" then you say ok great its fine.
then its your fault for paying without knowing what kind of unicorn tears they have your bike running on now that is costing so much.

90 mins to change oil my foot. Oil change dosnt cost more than $40 with the best oil. i pay $100 for a full service. which includes oil change + full inspection of the bike.

[Madness]

George from Motorcycle Doctors got my business after I was left disillusioned with Mt Eden's ability in the workshop. I use VTNZ for WOF's (sunday mornings works for me) and George comes around for anything I can't be arsed to attack with my 1/2"dr strongarm & 12" crescent. The guy is good.

[p.dath]

There isn't. Find someone who has had a lot of business with a certain shop, and get them to take you into the shop and introduce you.

Pretty harsh. There is many a fair business out there who makes money from trading, not theft. But don't forget, they are commercial companies, their to make a profit. So don't expect to get a tradesman with qualifications and decades of experience to do your job for $5. And just because the workshop chooses to use brand "x" of component that costs 25% more than what you like doesn't mean they are trying to rip you off. Perhaps they have found that your preferred brand has a 1 in 100 failure rate or something, and they'd prefer to use a more expensive component that deal with the consequences of failure.


$20 will buy ya a tool set that will allow you to change your oil :)

Assuming you haven't got any tools, then you probably haven't done it before. So you'd probably want a torque wrench for the sump plug and oil filter. You'll probably need an attachment to fit the torque wrench to the oil filter. You'll need some kind of drain tray for the oil. It makes it easier on some bikes if you have a funnel to poor the oil in. You'll need something to store the old oil in (big enough to hold many oil changes). You'll probably need a couple of screw drivers and sockets to remove enough bits of the bike to take the oil filter off.

So I think the number would be much closer to $200. But if you want to get an actual set of sockets, a set if screw drivers, then probably closer to $300. If you want a nice torque wrench and quality tools ...

[p.dath]

90 mins to change oil my foot. Oil change dosnt cost more than $40 with the best oil. i pay $100 for a full service. which includes oil change + full inspection of the bike.

Your winding everyone up right? You seriously think you can buy 4l of the best [meaning synthetic] oil for $40? Please tell me where.

[Maha]

So, would you please recommend an honest shop?
Thanks.

A very honest and dedicated Honda shop is right here in Warkworth.
I deal with them all the time, even when I had my Triumph.
The last time I needed thier services, they came and picked up my bike, fixed the puncture and charged me $30-35 for thier effort.
Theres a lot ot be said for small town dealerships.
On a good day, you can be up here in 40 mins.

[DEATH_INC.]

This stuff always takes longer than you think. If you count the time the salesman spends with you (he gets paid for this) then the mechanic has to retrieve the bike from where it's parked, give it a quick once-over, perform the job, clean up, return the bike to a suitable parking spot, write up the paperwork and pass it on to the aforementioned salesperson, who then must complete the transaction...... it does take more time than you think.
As for the filter charge thing....I too suspect it's just part of the job charge. We have codes for tyre fitting that include valves and stuff, that you don't always use...but as it's all part of the quoted price it is still charged the same (we always include this stuff in the price the customer is given for the product, not add it on later...)

[avgas]

So I think the number would be much closer to $200. But if you want to get an actual set of sockets, a set if screw drivers, then probably closer to $300. If you want a nice torque wrench and quality tools ...
I have built said kits with supercheap auto stuff for about $40.......from scratch. Sometimes gets a bit more expensive if you have to buy filter wrench that is fancy - $20-$60, but the rest can be bought for about $20

[Crasherfromwayback]

I have built said kits with supercheap auto stuff for about $40.......from scratch. Sometimes gets a bit more expensive if you have to buy filter wrench that is fancy - $20-$60, but the rest can be bought for about $20

Best advice I can give anyone that wants to take on their own work is buy good quality tools...not cheap shit. Much less chance of rounded of bolts/nuts etc. It really does make a big difference using nice tools.

[avgas]

I'd suggest "WTF, you fuckin arsehole, there is no filter, You can stick your bill right back up your arsehole, I'm not paying the fucker, and I'm gonna tell the world your a rip off cunt. Fuck you"
and then the bar tender says "I think you have had too much sir" upon which you are thrown into the cold Wanganui streets and proceed to walk out to the beach

[p.dath]

I have built said kits with supercheap auto stuff for about $40.......from scratch. Sometimes gets a bit more expensive if you have to buy filter wrench that is fancy - $20-$60, but the rest can be bought for about $20

Last time I asked about a torque wrench their the cheapest one they had was $100. So don't know how your making up kits for $40.

[avgas]

Best advice I can give anyone that wants to take on their own work is buy good quality tools...not cheap shit. Much less chance of rounded of bolts/nuts etc. It really does make a big difference using nice tools.
I was actually pleasantly surprised with some of the cheap stuff I have got.
My koken stuff hardly ever comes out these days. Probably because I am scared it will get stolen

[steve_t]

So you'd probably want a torque wrench for the sump plug and oil filter

Good point Phil ;) JK

[Crasherfromwayback]

I was actually pleasantly surprised with some of the cheap stuff I have got.
My koken stuff hardly ever comes out these days. Probably because I am scared it will get stolen

Like anything...even the cheaper stuff is getting better now. Koken is a-ok. Snap on is still my preference by far.

[EJK]

I'll share a story. I once got my 125 two stroke top end rebuilt (cost me close to $800) and they made a mistake and made the engine sieze (not my fault). The bike was repaired for the 2nd time and I did not had to pay for it ofcurse.

No wonder they got bankrupt.

[Headbanger]

I'll share a story.

I bought an MX bike from a local bike shop, Engine seized that very afternoon.

The end.




oh wait, took me two years to pay that baby off.

[p.dath]

I'll share a story.

I bought an MX bike from a local bike shop, Engine seized that very afternoon.

The end.




oh wait, took me two years to pay that baby off.

So you didn't enforce the legally required 3 month warranty a dealer has to provide?

[Headbanger]

So you didn't enforce the legally required 3 month warranty a dealer has to provide?

Entirely my fault.

Lmfao.

And this is going to fuck people over, I treat the bike shop the way I expect to be treated. Honestly.

[yachtie10]

Last time I asked about a torque wrench their the cheapest one they had was $100. So don't know how your making up kits for $40.

since when do you need a torque wrench to do an oil change?
I havnt had one in my garage for years (I own one it just hasnt been returned)

torque wrench doesnt stop you going the wrong way:blink: (well mine doesnt)

[yachtie10]

So you didn't enforce the legally required 3 month warranty a dealer has to provide?

where did that come from?

[EJK]

I'll share a story.

I bought an MX bike from a local bike shop, Engine seized that very afternoon.

The end.




oh wait, took me two years to pay that baby off.

LOL fukn epic

[bogan]

Last time I asked about a torque wrench their the cheapest one they had was $100. So don't know how your making up kits for $40.

one set spanner is all you need (two if its an internal filter), maybe add a brick and butter knife if the spin on filter is on pretty tight. And you may even get lucky and have the right size set spanner in the bikes toolkit anyway.

[kwaka_crasher]

Sometimes gets a bit more expensive if you have to buy filter wrench...

If you need a filter wrench to remove a filter it should subsequently be used on the person who installed the filter, to beat them around the head for overtightening it. If you think you need a filter wrench to put a filter on you should first beat yourself around the head with the filter wrench until unconscious.


...George comes around for anything I can't be arsed to attack with my 1/2"dr strongarm & 12" crescent. The guy is good.

How would you know? There isn't a single job on a bike that can't be tackled with your ample toolkit so he would have never come around! :oi-grr:


Last time I asked about a torque wrench their the cheapest one they had was $100. So don't know how your making up kits for $40.

I've never used a torque wrench on a sump plug and never stripped one or had one come loose. It's total overkill to even bother, unless perhaps you're a gorilla.


So you didn't enforce the legally required 3 month warranty a dealer has to provide?

No such thing.

[Robert Taylor]

If indeed you have been ripped then fair enough but I think you owed it to Mt Eden to in the first instance talk to them about it ( the manager / owner ) before setting off a hand grenade on KB.
There are always 2 sides to a story. As it is via this thread Mt Eden Motorcycles have been in their absence tried, convicted and executed by a kangaroo court. Id personally be concerned about the labour content, if indeed it was only for the oil change? Id also be concerned about a filter at $10 as thats usually too cheap for a filter.
But there will be lots of good points about the shop and to TOTALLY condemn them without having first spoken to their manager is I think very kneejerk. Everyone that owns or works in shops have families and dependents, everyone deserves a fair hearing.

[kwaka_crasher]

If indeed you have been ripped then fair enough but I think you owed it to Mt Eden to in the first instance talk to them about it ( the manager / owner ) before setting off a hand grenade on KB.

How would that help everyone who has read this and now has food for thought when considering whom they should entrust with their pride and joy much less their wallet?


There are always 2 sides to a story. As it is via this thread Mt Eden Motorcycles have been in their absence tried, convicted and executed by a kangaroo court.

Nobody is convicting them of anything. They're expressing their opinions and experiences. Mt Eden MC can respond if they like - they have a login here.


Id personally be concerned about the labour content, if indeed it was only for the oil change? Id also be concerned about a filter at $10 as thats usually too cheap for a filter.

I've bought genuine Kawasaki filters for $15 from them. Vesrah are rarely more than $10 in my experience.


But there will be lots of good points about the shop and to TOTALLY condemn them without having first spoken to their manager is I think very kneejerk. Everyone that owns or works in shops have families and dependents, everyone deserves a fair hearing.

Totally condemn them? No - merely warn others.

Everyone deserves a fair hearing except, it seems, the customer who you think should have shut up and not posted this before speaking with Mt Eden MC management so they had the chance to bribe the customer who noticed they were being swindled. That does absolutely nothing for the next potential customer. Maybe Mt Eden will now be more careful about what they charge for. That's a good start.

[AllanB]

Being charged 1.5 hours is different from it taking 1.5 hours to do.

I believe it is a accumulated time.

Picture this: 4 guys to pick up your bike and spin it upside down so they can drain the oil out of that silly little filler hole at the top of the crankcase. Flip it back over and put it on the ground when empty. One to change the filter and refill.

Total time to physically do the job 20 minutes - it is just charged at 1.5 hours as it took up to 4 staff.

Quite reasonable.

[Owl]

Oil change dosnt cost more than $40 with the best oil.

Not too sure which planet you're living on dude?

[Robert Taylor]

How would that help everyone who has read this and now has food for thought when considering whom they should entrust with their pride and joy much less their wallet?



Nobody is convicting them of anything. They're expressing their opinions and experiences. Mt Eden MC can respond if they like - they have a login here.



I've bought genuine Kawasaki filters for $15 from them. Vesrah are rarely more than $10 in my experience.



Totally condemn them? No - merely warn others.

Everyone deserves a fair hearing except, it seems, the customer who you think should have shut up and not posted this before speaking with Mt Eden MC management so they had the chance to bribe the customer who noticed they were being swindled. That does absolutely nothing for the next potential customer. Maybe Mt Eden will now be more careful about what they charge for. That's a good start.

Etiquette, if he wasnt able to have a satisfactory resolution first then maybe after that he had more justification in pulling the pin on a KB hand grenade. Now the whole business is tarred with one brush.

Everyone always assumes the worst of dealers as if they are born on some alien planet.

What a dog eat dog society it has become, in many people mindset they dont practice by a code of fairplay. The way this guy has gone about it belies that principle.

BTW the reason many aftermarket filters are cheaper is because very often they dont have the same amount of paper area, in some cases only 60% of oem. Then theres filtration size, relief valve opening pressure etc. Caveat emptor.

[bogan]

Etiquette, if he wasnt able to have a satisfactory resolution first then maybe after that he had more justification in pulling the pin on a KB hand grenade. Now the whole business is tarred with one brush.

I would very much like to hear the dealers side of the story on the labor cost, the filter they can easily put down to a clerical error (regardless whether it was intentional or not we wouldn't know), can someone let them know about this thread?

[Robert Taylor]

I would very much like to hear the dealers side of the story on the labor cost, the filter they can easily put down to a clerical error (regardless whether it was intentional or not we wouldn't know), can someone let them know about this thread?

Thats exactly right. And I make no apology for saying that this shows a dark side of human nature, vindictiveness.

So..........Im really unhappy and havent gone about it in a decent way ( and there will be another side to the story, maybe it can be justified, maybe it cannot ) So, in spite that there may be a number of good people at Mt Eden doing a good job ( and who have dependents to feed ) Im going to broadcast it to all and sundry so I can ruin their business.

Bloody shameful

[nallac]

A very honest and dedicated Honda shop is right here in Warkworth.
I deal with them all the time, even when I had my Triumph.
The last time I needed thier services, they came and picked up my bike, fixed the puncture and charged me $30-35 for thier effort.
Theres a lot ot be said for small town dealerships.
On a good day, you can be up here in 40 mins.

Along with a good YaMaha shop just down the road ,$5 to fix my last puncture.
And good old Warkworth M/C's in town.

[p.dath]

where did that come from?

To be a biker dealer you need to be an LMVD, which means you fall under the Motor Vehicles Traders Register:
http://www.motortraders.med.govt.nz/cms
Part of the act, a legal requirement, is that every "vehicle" sold has to be given a 3 month warranty.

Ever notice how a lot of dealers advertise a 3 month warranty? It's not because they are being generous.

[kwaka_crasher]

Etiquette, if he wasnt able to have a satisfactory resolution first then maybe after that he had more justification in pulling the pin on a KB hand grenade. Now the whole business is tarred with one brush.

But seeking a resolution then hushing up about it doesn't help others avoid the trap or inform them to be wary. Mt Eden MC can still post their view on here for all to see how they handled it. Two sides and all that. Someone wise said that earlier.


Everyone always assumes the worst of dealers as if they are born on some alien planet.

Well, they are down there with Lawyers and Real Estate Agents until proven otherwise! Stereotypes don't just invent themselves, you know.


What a dog eat dog society it has become, in many people mindset they dont practice by a code of fairplay. The way this guy has gone about it belies that principle.

It certainly appears, on the surface, that Mt Eden MC don't adhere to any 'fair play' by charging 1.5hrs labour to change oil. But I will reserve my judgement until such time as they reply. Or don't reply. As I'm sure all reasonable people will do.


BTW the reason many aftermarket filters are cheaper is because very often they dont have the same amount of paper area, in some cases only 60% of oem. Then theres filtration size, relief valve opening pressure etc. Caveat emptor.

Perhaps in the case of a spin-on. But you can see the area on a cartridge type. Whether or not the filtration element is better or worse though is largely a matter of opinion, without actual tests, so I buy genuine. At least you can be relatively sure they're made to some specification.

[GOONR]

I've used Mt Eden motorcycles, never had a single issue with them, Full Stop.

[Robert Taylor]

But seeking a resolution then hushing up about it doesn't help others avoid the trap or inform them to be wary. Mt Eden MC can still post their view on here for all to see how they handled it. Two sides and all that. Someone wise said that earlier.



Well, they are down there with Lawyers and Real Estate Agents until proven otherwise! Stereotypes don't just invent themselves, you know.



It certainly appears, on the surface, that Mt Eden MC don't adhere to any 'fair play' by charging 1.5hrs labour to change oil. But I will reserve my judgement until such time as they reply. Or don't reply. As I'm sure all reasonable people will do.



Perhaps in the case of a spin-on. But you can see the area on a cartridge type. Whether or not the filtration element is better or worse though is largely a matter of opinion, without actual tests, so I buy genuine. At least you can be relatively sure they're made to some specification.

No one said anything about hushing it up as such , Im just saying there is a certain gentlemanly way of going about things before throwing ones toys out of the cot. Did the customer seek a conversation with the manager / owner?

The customer ( subject to the other side of the story ) might well have been wronged. But also the motorcycle dealer has been very wronged. Does that now equal a right or is it just a nasty vindictive power trip on the part of the customer?

Many years back when I worked for the then Yamaha distributors we went beyond opinion with oil filters. We purchased all the main aftermarket oil filters and had them all independently tested. The results were scary. ALWAYS USUALLY BETTER TO BUY OEM.

[Cayman911]

Your winding everyone up right? You seriously think you can buy 4l of the best [meaning synthetic] oil for $40? Please tell me where.

Who said anything about buying 4L? if you were buying 4L then you may aswell change it yourself.

the beauty of having it done at a shop is that you pay for what you use. what 1L?

come on. are you supporting the $150 oil change? or do you believe in the "Spend more get more" thing to the extreme

btw $40 for me including labour. and yes synthetic

[Ragingrob]

Assuming you haven't got any tools, then you probably haven't done it before. So you'd probably want a torque wrench for the sump plug and oil filter. You'll probably need an attachment to fit the torque wrench to the oil filter. You'll need some kind of drain tray for the oil. It makes it easier on some bikes if you have a funnel to poor the oil in. You'll need something to store the old oil in (big enough to hold many oil changes). You'll probably need a couple of screw drivers and sockets to remove enough bits of the bike to take the oil filter off.

So I think the number would be much closer to $200. But if you want to get an actual set of sockets, a set if screw drivers, then probably closer to $300. If you want a nice torque wrench and quality tools ...

A torque wrench? Just tighten it up with some feel.

Drain tray? A cut open bottle to store oil.

Funnel? Head to the kitchen.

Screw drivers + sockets = $20

I rest my case at the 20 bucks if you really wanted to. Hey, he's spent hundreds and looks to do so again and again, whatever he spends on tools will save him in the long run.

BTW... Who actually has zero tools? + no mates with tools?

:confused:

[Mom]

Along with a good YaMaha shop just down the road ,$5 to fix my last puncture.
And good old Warkworth M/C's in town.

I still have his cable lube thingy, I must return. Yeah, you can not beat local service for sure! What they miss out on in being able to compete for tyres and riding gear, they more than make up for in service and help and support. Shop local folks. Use it, or lose it!

Pity the OP has taken the name and shame route without actually going to the shop to ask the simple and easy questions. Easy oversight to charge an oil filter on a service invoice. It is probably a template item. What else was involved in the service? How about a scan of the job card for our viewing pleasure. Failing that, how about thinking about this? If you dont want to pay the man for the service, do it yourself.

[Slyer]

I'd be too embarrassed to post this thread. Seriously you paid someone to change the oil? And it doesn't even have a filter?

1 tool required to change oil.
Step 1: Take off oil cap
Step 2: Crack open drain bolt with spanner till drained into icecream container
Step 3: Close drain bolt and wipe
Step 4: Top up with fresh oil till oil line
Step 5: Replace oil cap.

Seriously? The guy saw you coming a mile away. Act like you know what's involved and they wouldn't have tried to rip you off. Bike shops have to make money somehow.

[MaxCannon]

Buy a BMW
I've had nothing but impecable service from the guys at Experience BMW.
Pleasantly surprised that a 10,000KM was $50 cheaper than a Suzuki 6000km service (Colemans always did a sterling job with the Bandit too).
It included a loan bike for the day too, and it's only every 10,000km not every 6000

Mind you - the bike did cost 4 times what I paid for the Bandit.

[p.dath]

Who said anything about buying 4L? if you were buying 4L then you may aswell change it yourself.

the beauty of having it done at a shop is that you pay for what you use. what 1L?

come on. are you supporting the $150 oil change? or do you believe in the "Spend more get more" thing to the extreme

btw $40 for me including labour. and yes synthetic

I guess some bikes use more/less oil. Mine uses 3.3l for an oil change. I guess a very small engine might only use 1l.

[Headbanger]

Anyone should feel free to give an honest appraisal of any service or product they have paid for, Unless he has lied then no one has any moral grounds for trying to squash the thread, No matter if they are perched on a giant horse marching to the beat of a righteous drum and saying "What about the children, Think of the poor children"..

[jellywrestler]

I'd be too embarrassed to post this thread. Seriously you paid someone to change the oil? And it doesn't even have a filter?

1 tool required to change oil.
Step 1: Take off oil cap
Step 2: Crack open drain bolt with spanner till drained into icecream container
Step 3: Close drain bolt and wipe
Step 4: Top up with fresh oil till oil line
Step 5: Replace oil cap.

Seriously? The guy saw you coming a mile away. Act like you know what's involved and they wouldn't have tried to rip you off. Bike shops have to make money somehow.
step one, warm up bike so oil will flow out betterer

[Crasherfromwayback]

step one, warm up bike so oil will flow out betterer

And suspend all the lil particles in it so they come out instead of sitting on the bottom of ya sump.

[CHAPLIN]

Thousands of extra $ are made every day by ripping people who just dont know about mechanics. I had the tintop in for a auto trans oil change, mechanic took me under the car to show me a problem he noticed on the differential, "mate your diffs stuffed, its locked up, id say the spider gears are stuffed"--- to which I pointed out it was a limited slip unit, not another word was spoken.

[Mully]

I can't tell from the OP, but was he quoted the $150 before he started?

Or did he take the bike(s) in and get a surprise reaming (or two) from them?

[Robert Taylor]

Anyone should feel free to give an honest appraisal of any service or product they have paid for, Unless he has lied then no one has any moral grounds for trying to squash the thread, No matter if they are perched on a giant horse marching to the beat of a righteous drum and saying "What about the children, Think of the poor children"..

Honest? Possibly so. Fair in the way he went about it? Absolutely not.

Like most people Im not perfect and like yourself probably well beyond salvation. But I like to see a sense of fairplay.

If we all acted like this sorry episode ( possibly both parties ) then we would all be the poorer for it.

I apologise again for daring to express an opinion, especially after the kangaroo court expressed its judgement, perched atop their own high horses.

[Smifffy]

Etiquette, if he wasnt able to have a satisfactory resolution first then maybe after that he had more justification in pulling the pin on a KB hand grenade. Now the whole business is tarred with one brush.

Everyone always assumes the worst of dealers as if they are born on some alien planet.

What a dog eat dog society it has become, in many people mindset they dont practice by a code of fairplay. The way this guy has gone about it belies that principle.

BTW the reason many aftermarket filters are cheaper is because very often they dont have the same amount of paper area, in some cases only 60% of oem. Then theres filtration size, relief valve opening pressure etc. Caveat emptor.

I've been thinking on this whole "give the dealer a chance to put things right" scenario for a while. I have come to the conclusion that the time for them to show themselves at their best is as the customer is contemplating doing business with them. The time for actually doing their best is when they are providing the service for which they have been contracted to provide. That is their opportunity to get it right. If they intend on just practicing, then they should do it for amateur $$. If they are charging top dollar then they need to provide top service.

Maybe it does take an apprentice an hour and a half to scratch his arse and an oil change, but if you want to charge the rates of an ace mechanic, then best work on getting that time down.

I remember some business (can't remember who) used to advertise that "It's the putting right that counts". I always thought that was the most ridiculous slogan - I'd rather deal with someone that gets it right the first time.

In most cases once the bill is paid, that's the end of story as far as a business is concerned, so by the same token, once the bill is presented and paid that should be the end of it. The OP paid his money, settled his account and is now perfectly free to voice his opinion of the deal done. If the business doesn't like it, they can contact him, or sort their act out.

Clearly the person behind the counter was prepared to make up anything on the invoice just to make their life easier in this instance.

[Cayman911]

What i dont understand is why he discovered the big heavy bill after the job was done?

Usualy it's presented to the customer "this is howmuch it'll cost" , then you give the ok. If not, then yeah they can put anything on the bill for whatever. because the job is now done.

[Headbanger]

What i dont understand is why he discovered the big heavy bill after the job was done?

Usualy it's presented to the customer "this is howmuch it'll cost" , then you give the ok. If not, then yeah they can put anything on the bill for whatever. because the job is now done.

His issue is the non-existent parts they tried to charge him for, The fact he paid a premium for the service is just a secondary point.

Anyone can pay for something and then discuss whether they were happy with the service provided. Happens billions of times every day, all around the world.

Its a little sad when you go to a place of business, get an idea how much its going to cost, You know its not great value for money (irrelevant if the owner is driving a pair of roller skates or a Lamborghini) yet you go ahead and they still fuck with ya that little bit extra.

[The Stranger]

If not, then yeah they can put anything on the bill for whatever. because the job is now done.

They can, but it's not legal.
You can't legally charge an hour and a half if it only took you 30 minutes.

[Cayman911]

They can, but it's not legal.
You can't legally charge an hour and a half if it only took you 30 minutes.

But they can take their time to do that 30 minute job and have a coffee too. make it longer. and replace parts that had to be replaced. that were perfectly fine until they touched it.
ive seen it happen. well ive had it happen with a car.

[sidecar bob]

They can, but it's not legal.
You can't legally charge an hour and a half if it only took you 30 minutes.

Where does it say that? id love to know.
Does it also say what the maximum hourly rate is for all trades.

[Logpot]

I remember some business (can't remember who) used to advertise that "It's the putting right that counts".

I'm pretty sure that was L.V Martin & Son.

[dipshit]

Anybody can recommend an honest guy that can do simple maintenance on bikes (like oil change)

It seems like bike shops in NZ are a 50/50 crapshoot as to whether or not you will get a good one.

To avoid running the gauntlet of NZ bike shops, it would be better in the long run to start learning how to do maintenance on your bikes yourself. Workshop manuals for most models can usually be found online somewhere. The money you would have paid on labour from a shop would be better invested by going into supercheap and building up the tools you'll need over time.

Start with the basic things like oil changes and slowly work your way up from there. You'll find yourself relying less and less on bike shops over time as your experience increases.

[Dodgyiti]

I do think you have a legit gripe over the filter, but the labour is most likely a standard charge as discussed here. It does seem a lot, if you have 2 bikes in the shed, maybe $100 worth of reasonable quality tools will be a good investment for the future- especially at $180 labour every time they both need an oil change.

In Mt Eden's defence- Your gripe is with the workshop. I have had many years and many $$$ spent upstairs and have been treated honestly, respectfully, and well by all the staff in sales and parts. Something that gets me returning year after year.. plus they are the Guzzi agents...

I do all my own servicing for the exact reasons of your original post (but mostly the cost)

[Katman]

To be a biker dealer you need to be an LMVD, which means you fall under the Motor Vehicles Traders Register:
http://www.motortraders.med.govt.nz/cms
Part of the act, a legal requirement, is that every "vehicle" sold has to be given a 3 month warranty.

Ever notice how a lot of dealers advertise a 3 month warranty? It's not because they are being generous.

So if a customer buys a 2-stroke motocross bike and forgets to add oil to their fuel and then seizes it, how is that the bike shop's fault?

(Not saying that that is what Headbanger did - just pointing out the hole in your theory).

[The Stranger]

Where does it say that? id love to know.
Does it also say what the maximum hourly rate is for all trades.

Buggered if I know where it says that, but I am aware of 2 cases where accounts have been reduced.
The court has used common times for similar work and in one of the cases at least reduced the hourly rate to one more appropriate to the industry concerned.

Similarly, I have seen "estimates" enforced by courts. On the basis that if I ask you for an estimate to repair my car, you are holding yourself out to be an expert in the field so you should have the requisite knowledge and experience to make an accurate estimate.
If I come back and it took say 50% longer, then where am I going to get the money from? I didn't budget on that.
Unless there are extenuating circumstances a figure of within 10% has been used in the past. Comes as a hell of a shock to people often when they find this out the hard way.
If giving an estimate you do need to take due care.

If you gave them a rate from the start and it was exorbitant I doubt the court could get involved on that side of things.

Hopefully one of the lawyers on here will comment. I'm no lawyer, but have unfortunately spent more time hanging around courts than anyone should have to.

[danchop]

werent the both bikes in for wofs too?thats $35-40 alone,and to take a bike in that the owner knows has no filter, for an oil change that requires one 14mm socket and a drain tray must mean your a white collar corporate with a large suv as a cage

[doc]

I had to do the WOF and oil change
I could do it myself but I didn't have the proper tools.

Anybody can recommend an honest guy that can do simple maintenance on bikes (like oil change) at reasonable prices and maybe also Warrants of Fitness?

Thanks.


:gob: FFS !!! this has to be a wind up.

[SS90]

As has been said many time already, while on the surface 1.5 hours to change the oil does seem excessive, the manager of the shop must be able to justify it (It shouldn't be too hard)

Going on a public forum like this and condeming them is really bad form, you should have contacted the manager immediately you realised you weren't happy, that's what the managers job is in this situation.

[Smifffy]

As has been said many time already, while on the surface 1.5 hours to change the oil does seem excessive, the manager of the shop must be able to justify it (It shouldn't be too hard)

Going on a public forum like this and condeming them is really bad form, you should have contacted the manager immediately you realised you weren't happy, that's what the managers job is in this situation.

The OP has also said many times that he isn't bothered about the labour charge. He hasn't condemned anyone, just reported that he had a bad experience and doesn't plan to go back. Plenty of businesses are now using the web to advertise, and have realised the power of the medium to get their message out. Consumers have a similar option.

The interesting thing to me will be if the OP has a similar experience at another 3 workshops will they also post in the same manner?

[Headbanger]

I find it interesting that some within the industry try and shut down legit honest discussion, and try and paint it as slanderous just for daring to exist.

I mean ffs, Think of the children?

[Swoop]

Originally Posted by tcpdump
I had to do the WOF and oil change
I could do it myself but I didn't have the proper tools.

:gob: FFS !!! this has to be a wind up.
Surely a scanner/photoshop + printer would take care of that!:yes::whistle:

[bogan]

The OP has also said many times that he isn't bothered about the labour charge. He hasn't condemned anyone, just reported that he had a bad experience and doesn't plan to go back. Plenty of businesses are now using the web to advertise, and have realised the power of the medium to get their message out. Consumers have a similar option.

The interesting thing to me will be if the OP has a similar experience at another 3 workshops will they also post in the same manner?

If he wasn't bothered bout the labor charge, why tell everyone what it was? now a lot of people will think they overcharge on labor, and at $90 for an oil change it certainly sounds that way! Better to leave that bit out of his complain completely, or ask the staff why it was so high.

[dipshit]

I find it interesting that some within the industry try and shut down legit honest discussion, and try and paint it as slanderous just for daring to exist.

The industry would have kittens if TV3's Target programme did a few episodes on bike workshops. :shit:

[Quasievil]

The industry would have kittens if TV3's Target programme did a few episodes on bike workshops. :shit:

Not as many if Target focussed on its customers

[dipshit]

Not as many if Target focussed on its customers

Oh yes, those pesky, annoying, stupid clueless customers that keep walking into bike shops every day and annoy the staff. <_<

[Crasherfromwayback]

The industry would have kittens if TV3's Target programme did a few episodes on bike workshops. :shit:

Long as we don't get sprung sniffing seats! Looks like we're about to see another panty sniffer in tonights episode!

[aprilia_RS250]

I do remember reading up on a mechanic in Wellington who used to take out the tyres from the car that's come in for a WOF, swap for ones with no tread, fail the cars WOF, call the customer and sell them a new set and then also additionally sell the customer's old set on Trade Me. Prick got caught by a farmer who thought it was very suspicious they needed a brand new set after having them for only 2 days. Always ask your mechanic that if they get close to the limit that YOU want to pay they call you up and they provide you with further diagnosis. This way there won't be any surprises, you can query costs immediately etc.

[vifferman]

They can, but it's not legal.
You can't legally charge an hour and a half if it only took you 30 minutes.
Surely they can charge whatever they like? You either accept it and pay, or dispute it and negotiate, or pay up begrudgingly and don't go back.

[CookMySock]

No, I didn't. It's unlikely that a complain will change anything. I know I shouldn't think like this but I gave up trying to change the world a while back.You don't complain - you clarify.

There is always opportunity for misunderstanding, and if you think there might be - you have a responsibility to at least try and clear it up first.

Steve

[dipshit]

Long as we don't get sprung sniffing seats! Looks like we're about to see another panty sniffer in tonights episode!

A mechanic sniffing my seat would be the least of my worries.

[Crasherfromwayback]

A mechanic sniffing my seat would be the least of my worries.

I'm sure you'd be well worried if you happened to be sitting on it at the time

[kwaka_crasher]

They can, but it's not legal.
You can't legally charge an hour and a half if it only took you 30 minutes.

Never heard of the flat rate manual?


To be a biker dealer you need to be an LMVD, which means you fall under the Motor Vehicles Traders Register:
http://www.motortraders.med.govt.nz/cms
Part of the act, a legal requirement, is that every "vehicle" sold has to be given a 3 month warranty.

Ever notice how a lot of dealers advertise a 3 month warranty? It's not because they are being generous.

The LMVD hasn't existed since 2003. Statutory warranties disappeared with the Motor Vehicle Dealers Act that was repealed, as I recall.

Some RMVTs (the new name for dealers) offer an explicit 3 month warranty. They don't have to. Motor vehicle sales by RMVTs are now primarily covered by the Consumer Guarantees Act and disputes are handled by the Motor Vehicle Disputes Tribunal (MVDT), a division of the Justice Department.

[Hispid]

You are not the first person to to be riipped off by Mt Eden Motorcycles and you won't be the last. I used to go there couple of years ago but not anymore. They have too much attitude.

I go to Spectrum Motocycles over the shore. very friendly and great service. have no complains.

[The Stranger]

Never heard oft he flat rate manual?


Nope. Though I am aware that there are various schedules available for how long a particular service should take, these are often available with service information software for example and/or from some manufacturers.
If you for example quoted based on these then that would not be an issue. The price was agreed from the start in a quote - no contest (in general).
If you charged based on these it would be very difficult for the customer to argue against in court as you could very simply produce evidence (the manual) of what constitutes a reasonable time frame.

[The Pastor]

Motorcycle oil is generally more expensive than car oil - for some reason, so I don't think that's a good comparison. Plus the way some of these guys drain car oil (i.e. quickly, before it's all drained) I wouldn't dream of doing to a bike.

I would suspect that it's a standard charge and that the person raising the invoice probably didn't do the spanner spinning.
"Oil - X litres @ $X"
"Filter - 1 @ $X"
"Spark plugs (for example) - 4 @ $X"

I'd suggest that more bikes would have a filter than wouldn't.




No you are wrong. Bike oil is the same price as car oil.

As your comment on the invoice and standard charge - thats complete bullshit. They should never ever charge out something that wasnt done or required and the mechanic should confirm the work he done, and the time he did it in. Its just basic bussiness sence. If the person doing the invoice dosent know - they should find out.

The reasons a person goes to a mechanic rather than DIY is of a few reasons;

They are the experts (i.e., they should know about the oil filter)
They have the tools required
They do a professional job.

This experiance has only confirmed what i've thought about mt eden for a long time now. It is very embarrising for the store and I thank the OP for sharing the story. I strongly doubt this was a careless mistake and the blatent rip off attiude of Mt eden is shocking.

[kwaka_crasher]

No you are wrong. Bike oil is the same price as car oil.

No, they're not when you compare apples with apples. Compare the price of Mobil 1 4T (around the $80 mark) with Mobil 1 (around the $60 mark).

[Slyer]

No, they're not when you compare apples with apples. Compare the price of Mobil 1 4T (around the $80 mark) with Mobil 1 (around the $60 mark).
He is claiming that this is only because they charge more. I think they would be a bit more expensive as it is a specialty oil.

[The Pastor]

He is claiming that this is only because they charge more. I think they would be a bit more expensive as it is a specialty oil.

nope i pay $35/4L of oil, the same as a car.

[kwaka_crasher]

nope i pay $35/4L of oil, the same as a car.

Which oil. All the details, please.

You can buy car oil at $20/4L BTW. So your bike oil is more expensive.

[Headbanger]

I find it of even more interest that so many in the industry blame the customers for problems within the industry

[Ixion]

Well, personally I use diesel oil in bikes (four strokes, obviously), so it is the same price by definition.

[The Pastor]

Which oil. All the details, please.

You can buy car oil at $20/4L BTW. So your bike oil is more expensive.

what ever costs less than $35 at cycletreads. eaaassssy

[Robert Taylor]

No, they're not when you compare apples with apples. Compare the price of Mobil 1 4T (around the $80 mark) with Mobil 1 (around the $60 mark).

Of course everything posted on the net is correct right? Motorcycle oil is for the most part more expensive than car oil because it doesnt have the same economy of scale. Its also different to car oil as it has a different bucket of additives.

[Robert Taylor]

I find it interesting that some within the industry try and shut down legit honest discussion, and try and paint it as slanderous just for daring to exist.

I mean ffs, Think of the children?

I find it interesting how so many who slag the industry etc etc on forums are not totally transparent who they are. If you are going to ''name and shame'' a dealer so blatantly then say exactly who you are and where you are from.

Like another post said the customer should have first gone to the manager of the said shop and asked him to clarify or put it right. Prior to pulling the pin on a KB hand grenade. I wonder how many on this forum who have engaged in this feeding frenzy would survive intense scrutiny of their own workplace performance????

[kwaka_crasher]

what ever costs less than $35 at cycletreads. eaaassssy

Yeah, so you're not comparing even remotely similar oils. Just as I thought. Why aren't you buying the $20/4L bike oils then?

That's like saying a Porsche costs the same as a Toyota Echo because you bought a used '91 Porsche for the price you'd pay for a new Echo.

And like RT says - bike oils are a low volume specialty oil which is a significant factor in pricing.


Of course everything posted on the net is correct right?

Are you by any chance attempting to make some spurious link between, let's just say, a customer's experience of a particular workshop charging for parts that weren't fitted and perhaps the retail pricing of similar motorcycle parts?

[Robert Taylor]

what ever costs less than $35 at cycletreads. eaaassssy

Yeah you can get cheap and nasty car oil from Supercheap as well. Your comparison doesnt stack up.

[Crasherfromwayback]

I find it of even more interest that so many in the industry blame the customers for problems within the industry

Who from the industry is doing that here regarding this sort of stuff?

[kwaka_crasher]

I find it interesting how so many who slag the industry etc etc on forums are not totally transparent who they are. If you are going to ''name and shame'' a dealer so blatantly then say exactly who you are and where you are from.

I'm genuinely interested as to why you would think that neccessary.


Like another post said the customer should have first gone to the manager of the said shop and asked him to clarify or put it right. Prior to pulling the pin on a KB hand grenade. I wonder how many on this forum who have engaged in this feeding frenzy would survive intense scrutiny of their own workplace performance????

This isn't intense scrutiny. It's an obvious swindle. Why haven't Mt Eden MC come in to clear up the lies? I'm sure someone would have alerted them to this. Could it be indefensible?

I would suggest that for any professional that it takes anywhere near 1½ hours to change a bike's oil, they should find a new profession.

[Headbanger]

I find it interesting how so many who slag the industry etc etc on forums are not totally transparent who they are. If you are going to ''name and shame'' a dealer so blatantly then say exactly who you are and where you are from.

Like another post said the customer should have first gone to the manager of the said shop and asked him to clarify or put it right. Prior to pulling the pin on a KB hand grenade. I wonder how many on this forum who have engaged in this feeding frenzy would survive intense scrutiny of their own workplace performance????

Bloody customer, How dare they not like what they got, Stomp them, STOMP THEM.

Next you will be wanting everyone to sign a non-disclosure agreement.

meanwhile, Back in the real world...........(Being the world not controlled by Robert Taylor, where people can pass on their experiences without being vilified by the industry, you know, vested interest and all that)

[Headbanger]

Who from the industry is doing that here regarding this sort of stuff?

Not about to name people, Its pretty obvious, Look in any thread where international purchases are mentioned.

Oh, and in this very thread.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Not about to name people, Its pretty obvious, Look in any thread where international purchases are mentioned.

Oh, and in this very thread.

That's not SO many people. It's normally one or two...and not all are from the industry

[Headbanger]

That's not SO many people. It's normally one or two...and not all are from the industry

Indeed, "So many" is perhaps a poor choice of words, But quite possibly an effective choice of words. Exaggeration works wonders when making a point.

I'll revise it to "A few"

[Slyer]

Well, personally I use diesel oil in bikes (four strokes, obviously), so it is the same price by definition.
Quiet Mr Dry Clutch

[Ixion]

No, I use it in wet clutch bikes also. Diesel oils do not contain the additives that cause bike clutches to slip.

[Ixion]

I would suggest that for any professional that it takes anywhere near 1½ hours to change a bike's oil, they should find a new profession.

I know of quite a number of car shops that have a flat rate charge for 'oil change and service'. Same $$ no matter what car. They go a bit over on some, amke it up on others.

There are also quite a few bikes that I would want more than an hour and a half to do an oil change. Some require fairing removal, some even require the headers to be removed. I also suspect that the 'oil change' is 'oil change and service' , which covers a few other (admittedly minor) points. Go over on some, recover on others.

[Swoop]

Look in any thread where international purchases are mentioned.
Does this mean that we are going to "take this thread international"???








Yup. Still funny after all this time.

[avgas]

No, I use it in wet clutch bikes also. Diesel oils do not contain the additives that cause bike clutches to slip.
+1 I find it the perfect thing to do a flush with. The detergents clean the clutch plates for you before you put something better in.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Motorcycle oil is generally more expensive than car oil - for some reason,.

Here's three: usually a motorbike has the crank, gearbox and clutch in the same oil, so it picks up a lot more crap than a car does.
motorbikes stress their oil more because typically they have a higher rev limit, higher horsepowers per litre, and less oil volume to absorb those loads
there are a lot less motorbikes around, so they produce less by volume so less economies of scale.

I would have thought a 1.5 hour labour charge would have been an incentive to learn how to do it yourself!!! turns out it doesnt even have an oil filter!

[HenryDorsetCase]

+1 I find it the perfect thing to do a flush with. The detergents clean the clutch plates for you before you put something better in.

seriously? or are you taking the piss?

[avgas]

Re: Target

I know of someone who was 'swindelled' by the so called 'Target watchdog' - was complete BS, and the added subtititles that were nothing about what he actually said (was my flatmate). It was the "under-age game sales" episode.
Notice I was not the only who found target was bullshit
http://www.grownups.co.nz/discuss/show/id/861

As for mechanics sniffing panties.....if they are hidden on your motorbike you have bigger issues to deal with then being ripped of by a mechanic.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Indeed, "So many" is perhaps a poor choice of words, But quite possibly an effective choice of words. Exaggeration works wonders when making a point.

I'll revise it to "A few"

That's the story! We in sales are never allowed to exaggerate.

[kwaka_crasher]

I know of quite a number of car shops that have a flat rate charge for 'oil change and service'. Same $$ no matter what car. They go a bit over on some, amke it up on others.

There are also quite a few bikes that I would want more than an hour and a half to do an oil change. Some require fairing removal, some even require the headers to be removed. I also suspect that the 'oil change' is 'oil change and service' , which covers a few other (admittedly minor) points. Go over on some, recover on others.

Yeah, that's essentially what I was going to say when I brought up the Flat Rates Manual. Back in the day, it was what we used, although only usually on things we didn't do day in and day out, like oil changes.

Midas, Pitstop & those other shitbox franchises make a living largely from people's fear of the unknown with their menu system for various services.

If the public just fucking well asked what the cost was going to be first though, much of the problems of invoice tampering would be avoided. But they don't - they just leave it with the mechanic and pray!

[kwaka_crasher]

Here's three: usually a motorbike has the crank, gearbox and clutch in the same oil, so it picks up a lot more crap than a car does.
motorbikes stress their oil more because typically they have a higher rev limit, higher horsepowers per litre, and less oil volume to absorb those loads

You forgot the combined engine/gearbox too which puts a lot of stress on the oil, particularly it's anti-foaming properties.

[Bikemad]

I've been thinking on this whole "give the dealer a chance to put things right" scenario for a while. I have come to the conclusion that the time for them to show themselves at their best is as the customer is contemplating doing business with them. The time for actually doing their best is when they are providing the service for which they have been contracted to provide. That is their opportunity to get it right. If they intend on just practicing, then they should do it for amateur $$. If they are charging top dollar then they need to provide top service.
I remember some business (can't remember who) used to advertise that "It's the putting right that counts". I always thought that was the most ridiculous slogan - I'd rather deal with someone that gets it right the first time.
The OP paid his money, settled his account and is now perfectly free to voice his opinion of the deal done. If the business doesn't like it, they can contact him, or sort their act out.

yep you got it in one smiffffy............hows the saying go.......Quality endures long after the price is forgotten..........and as a tradesman you are only as good as your last job

[Jonno.]

I find it of even more interest that so many in the industry blame the customers for problems within the industryWho from the industry is doing that here regarding this sort of stuff?

You for one.

[caseye]

OK so where is Mt Eden MC's in all of this, we haven't seen em and by now I'm sure they know about this thread.
I'll say I've had nothing but good?great dealings with Mt Eden MC's, parts and sourcing wise only, haven't had any work done there, but their counter staff were bloody brilliant.
We all have had bad experiences somewhere, we didn't always have the ready acess to the interwobble and the ability to simply post away with out wondering where it might end up.
I'd have asked to see the manager and asked for a comprehensive break down of the acount to accompany the in person by the attending mechanic report on the bikes problems and his remedies.
Come on Mt Eden MC's lets be having your side to this little episode.
Stop leaving ol Robert out there in the cold defending the seemingly indefensible.

[Crasherfromwayback]

You for one.

Show me one single example of anywhere I blame customers for these such issues?

[sidecar bob]

Show me one single example of anywhere I blame customers for these such issues?

Fuk em, blame them crasher.
The bastards that dont pay, the bastards that flame ya on the net, the bastards that ask "do i owe you anything for that" (no im fuckin Santa cant you see)
The bastards that fuck it up themselves & want the shop to sort it out.
The bastards that try on boots & helmet & then buy them off the net.
The bastards that supply their own parts off the 'net & want the shop to fit them. & all the other munters out there, i could go on for pages.
But woe betide if a customer gets accidentaly charged ten bucks he dosent owe.
Be funny if the shop started a thread naming & shaming assholes that do the above. That would be hilarious!!

[Crasherfromwayback]

Fuk em, blame them crasher.
The bastards that dont pay, the bastards that flame ya on the net, the bastards that ask "do i owe you anything for that" (no im fuckin Santa cant you see)
The bastards that fuck it up themselves & want the shop to sort it out.
The bastards that supply their own parts off the 'net & want the shop to fit them. & all the other munters out there, i could go on for pages.

No way. Without customers I'd be broke and looking for work! There's always gonna be mistakes, fuckups...misunderstandings...whatever you wanna call them. You can only ever do your best. Sometimes that's simply not enough.

[DMNTD]

OK so where is Mt Eden MC's in all of this, we haven't seen em and by now I'm sure they know about this thread.

Yep...I saw this thread yesterday mate.

I have already spoken to the person 'concerned' and heard the 'other side'.
It really is something between the customer and the workshop manager, who freely admits he made a mistake and who also remedied the mistake on the spot.
For what it's worth, he's apologetic.

In my PERSONAL opinion....when I have an issue with someone or something, I use the set of balls I was born with to 'sort it out' on the spot instead of coming online and bitching.

[kwaka_crasher]

It really is something between the customer and the workshop manager, who freely admits he made a mistake and who also remedied the mistake on the spot.

Fair enough on the oil filter.

Any comment on the 1½ hours to change the oil that some people posting in here other than the OP don't much like the sound of. Is that a standard charge from a flat rates manual or just what they think they can extort the gullible for or perhaps something else entirely that hasn't been considered?

[Quasievil]

in my personal opinion....when i have an issue with someone or something, i use the set of balls i was born with to 'sort it out' on the spot instead of coming online and bitching.



fuck yeah brutha !!!

[DMNTD]

Any comment on the 1½ hours to change the oil that some people posting in here other than the OP don't much like the sound of. Is that a standard charge from a flat rates manual or just what they think they can extort the gullible for or perhaps something else entirely that hasn't been considered?

No comment at this stage as I'm one of the big mouth buggers up stairs too busy catering to those that would like to buy bikes and gear.
I am, however, more than happy to find out plus I will also do some of my own research...

[kwaka_crasher]

fuck yeah brutha !!!

To be honest, to me, that reeks of "we've been caught out trying it on and want the chance to hush it up so the next victim... umm customer isn't forewarned".

But that's just my opinion.

[sidecar bob]

No way. Without customers I'd be broke and looking for work! There's always gonna be mistakes, fuckups...misunderstandings...whatever you wanna call them. You can only ever do your best. Sometimes that's simply not enough.

I have three requirments of my clients which i started enforcing a number of years ago. 1) A reasonable personality, which means, no drugs, no anger no gang connections & no being a wanker basically.
2) a reasonable vehicle that is worth repairing, that they want repaired. (if they fail a W.O.F on a tyre & want to bleat about it the may as well fuck off now)
3) Reasonable means of payment, which may include an account that they keep up to date.
If one or more of those things is apparently missing i actively & politely encourage the prospective punter to fuck off.
As a result, my working day is far more plesant.
I would suggest its not a bad idea for bike shops to consider a similar policy.

[Metastable]

I read some of the first few and some of the last few pages, so maybe someone else has pointed this out... dunno.

Whether or not 1.5 hours of labour makes sense isn't what I will be getting at with this post. However, one thing many folks seem to forget is that there HAS TO be a minimal charge for getting the bike up on the lift for service.

You're not just paying for a guy's salary to pull a drain plug and fill it with oil.... or to just switch over a tire. You are paying for:
- Labour
- The cost of the equipment being used, tools, lifts,
- Rental space, lights, heating whatever
- The cost of burden if something goes wrong.

What if the bike is damaged? It could be a dent, mechanical screw up, rims scratched when changing tires, etc...

It doesn't make sense for a shop to just charge someone for 15minutes. Then they would be losing money, especially considering how many things CAN go wrong.

Plus - you never want a mechanic to RUSH anything. :D

[kwaka_crasher]

No comment at this stage as I'm one of the big mouth buggers up stairs too busy catering to those that would like to buy bikes and gear.
I am, however, more than happy to find out plus I will also do some of my own research...

I look forward to the findings of the Royal Commission... :lol:

But seriously I would be interested to know. Flat rate was ok back when vehicles were all very similar, not so much now with such a diverse range of configurations and models.

It doesn't really affect me as I do all my own servicing. But it's probably of interest to others who have commented on the 1½ hours..

[The Stranger]

Fuk em, blame them crasher.
The bastards that dont pay, the bastards that flame ya on the net, the bastards that ask "do i owe you anything for that" (no im fuckin Santa cant you see)
The bastards that fuck it up themselves & want the shop to sort it out.
The bastards that try on boots & helmet & then buy them off the net.
The bastards that supply their own parts off the 'net & want the shop to fit them. & all the other munters out there, i could go on for pages.
But woe betide if a customer gets accidentaly charged ten bucks he dosent owe.
Be funny if the shop started a thread naming & shaming assholes that do the above. That would be hilarious!!


You been in the industry too long, you need a break ya grumpy old bugger.

[Headbanger]

In my PERSONAL opinion....when I have an issue with someone or something, I use the set of balls I was born with to 'sort it out' on the spot instead of coming online and bitching.



Which is exactly what he did, raised the issue, had it sorted on the spot (as he reported), and then decided to throw his tale it into the public arena. As you can see there are dozens of points of view coming through and the opportunity is there for all concerned to say their piece.

Personally I don't see the shop has come off badly at all, One person has complained about a small item......meh

Hell, If I was insane enough to pay someone to change my oil, if the quoted price was within my expected budget, and if I were in close proximity to the shop in question then....well....damn, I just can't get over the hump of paying someone to change the oil, Its like paying someone to tie your shoes.

[sidecar bob]

You been in the industry too long, you need a break ya grumpy old bugger.

Yet strangely, im making more now than i ever did when i took everyones shit.
Cant quite work that one out.

[kwaka_crasher]

I read some of the first few and some of the last few pages, so maybe someone else has pointed this out... dunno.

Whether or not 1.5 hours of labour makes sense isn't what I will be getting at with this post. However, one thing many folks seem to forget is that there HAS TO be a minimal charge for getting the bike up on the lift for service.

You're not just paying for a guy's salary to pull a drain plug and fill it with oil.... or to just switch over a tire. You are paying for:
- Labour
- The cost of the equipment being used, tools, lifts,
- Rental space, lights, heating whatever
- The cost of burden if something goes wrong.

What if the bike is damaged? It could be a dent, mechanical screw up, rims scratched when changing tires, etc...

It doesn't make sense for a shop to just charge someone for 15minutes. Then they would be losing money, especially considering how many things CAN go wrong.

Plus - you never want a mechanic to RUSH anything. :D

Padding the labour charge is not the answer to covering any of that. It is disingenuous.

In any case, if something goes wrong that is unforeseeable then the customer bears the burden. But why should the customer be penalised if something goes wrong that is the fault of the mechanic like damage from falling off the lift etc. It's not up to the customer to ensure that's covered in overcharges for labour! It's up to the workshop to ensure they minimise the likelyhood and are suitably covered. They'd have to be making a lot of fuckups to warrant double the hourly rate! (based on 45 min to change oil, which is generous).

[Crasherfromwayback]

Talking of fuckups...we just had a salvage truck reverse down our drive, smash into the skip bin...and flatten around 6 motorcycles with it. THAT's a major!!!!

[Headbanger]

Talking of fuckups...we just had a salvage truck reverse down our drive, smash into the skip bin...and flatten around 6 motorcycles with it. THAT's a major!!!!

I hope your taking photos.

[caseye]

Talking of fuckups...we just had a salvage truck reverse down our drive, smash into the skip bin...and flatten around 6 motorcycles with it. THAT's a major!!!!

Jeez! Crasher thats bloody incredible, make sure those pics come out Good and lets be seeing em soon.I'd laugh but I know it's bloody serious insurance etc aside it's sheer bloody incompetence has wrecked someones pride and joy.

[Jantar]

Talking of fuckups...we just had a salvage truck reverse down our drive, smash into the skip bin...and flatten around 6 motorcycles with it. THAT's a major!!!!
Ouch!!!! :shit:
I hope the truck's owner has good insurance.

Back on topic. I've only ever had one "less than good" experience with Mt Eden Motorcycles, and that was so long ago it probably isn't even the same owners any more. Generally I've heard more positive than negative about them.

[kwaka_crasher]

Talking of fuckups...we just had a salvage truck reverse down our drive, smash into the skip bin...and flatten around 6 motorcycles with it. THAT's a major!!!!

Gees I wouldn't want to be the customer whose bill gets padded for THAT! :rofl:

[Maha]

To be honest, to me, that reeks of "we've been caught out trying it on and want the chance to hush it up so the next victim... umm customer isn't forewarned".

But that's just my opinion.

Carry on with kinda talk and you'll get the thread Quarantined.

[Quasievil]

To be honest, to me, that reeks of "we've been caught out trying it on and want the chance to hush it up so the next victim... umm customer isn't forewarned".

But that's just my opinion.

You think so eh? so Mt Eden have a history of this ? I strongly doubt it as this subject would have appeared on this website before, to my knowledge it hasnt.
I think it demonstrates a slagger with a keyboard and no Balls.

[kwaka_crasher]

You think so eh? so Mt Eden have a history of this ? I strongly doubt it as this subject would have appeared on this website before, to my knowledge it hasnt.
I think it demonstrates a slagger with a keyboard and no Balls.

Yeah, I do think so. No, they don't have a history that I'm aware of, but isn't that my point? If nobody ever hears about it how are we to know?

I've dealt with M Eden MC on occassions - I've been going there for 20+years. I've had reasonably good experiences - nothing to complain about except lack of communication one time when getting parts a couple of years ago and a bit of white lies from Mike. But then I don't need them for servicing or repairs so perhaps this is the norm for the workshop. Who can really say? We can, perhaps at best, only establish a pattern. Is that not what this community is about - helping each other rather than just becoming a mouthpiece for the industry?

Now, I'm prepared to take DMNTD's word for what he posts. He's on the floor and even though he has a vested interest to some degree (being a job) I feel he's trustworthy and as I posted early on, the filter issue could be a simple oversight. But I also take onboard the OPs complaint because, really, what do they stand to gain from lieing? I'm not prepared to disbelieve him without good reason. Just as I have no good reason to disbelieve DMNTD's statement about the error being genuine and regretful.

[Crasherfromwayback]

I hope your taking photos.

Oh yes. We'll need 'em for the insurance company...and proof to the poor customers who's bikes got squished so they don't think we did it!

[nodrog]

I had to do the WOF and oil change for my bike and somebody recommended these guys.
All nice and smooth although $150 for a change of oil seemed a bit steep since $90 was just the labor (1.5 hours to drain the oil and put new one. whatever).
I could do it myself but I didn't have the proper tools.

Anyway, the next day I took my wife's bike for an identical operation. She has a '99 Honda Rebel.
Same price. Looked at the invoice: "oil filter - $10".
Since the Rebel doesn't have an oil filter I asked the guy why am I being charged for one. He mumbled something and he called somebody else.
He said and I quote: "Eh, I thought the bike has an oil filter, this is why it's on the invoice but not to worry, I'll make another invoice without the oil filter".

So, if I wasn't aware of this they would have ripped me off. I don't care about the $10, I care about the fact that who knows what else they "think" the bike might have. The gesture, not the money.

I wonder if they really changed the oil or they just thought they did it.

So I'd advise avoiding Mt. Eden Motorcycles if you can.

Anybody can recommend an honest guy that can do simple maintenance on bikes (like oil change) at reasonable prices and maybe also Warrants of Fitness?

Thanks.

what are you actually bleating about? are you bleating about the $150 (which, from my experience seems about the going rate at a branded franchised dealer) which was fine 24 hours before on your bike?

or are you bleating about the $60 an hour labour charge (thats a fucking good hourly rate, all the franchised shops here are $80+)

or are you bleating about the mistake on the invoice which was made good as soon as you asked about it (they made a mistake and fixed it, what more do you want? a cuddle?)

im confused

[AllanB]

Maybe Skidmark got a job there - that would explain the 1.5 hours ......

[sidecar bob]

what are you actually bleating about? are you bleating about the $150 (which, from my experience seems about the going rate at a branded franchised dealer) which was fine 24 hours before on your bike?

or are you bleating about the $60 an hour labour charge (thats a fucking good hourly rate, all the franchised shops here are $80+)

or are you bleating about the mistake on the invoice which was made good as soon as you asked about it (they made a mistake and fixed it, what more do you want? a cuddle?)
im confused
Pull ya head in Gordy, she's just bleating, ok. Aint a chick allowed to just have a bleat sometimes?

[nodrog]

Pull ya head in Gordy, she's just bleating, ok. Aint a chick allowed to just have a bleat sometimes?

fair enough, i should be more understanding, especially when Aunt Flo is visting for the week.

[The Stranger]

Yet strangely, im making more now than i ever did when i took everyones shit.
Cant quite work that one out.

Farrrk you must have realllly grumpy before then.

[Robert Taylor]

Not as many if Target focussed on its customers

Yep , plenty of bikes have been traded into dealers over the years that the owners knew were timebombs, the sort of faults that cannot be picked up easily with a standard appraisal. The worst examples are 250cc 4 stroke MX bikes where components have gone beyond maximum stress hours and the maintemnace has just not been there. Yes there are shifty dealers, but there are also loads of shifty customers out there.

[Robert Taylor]

Never heard of the flat rate manual?



The LMVD hasn't existed since 2003. Statutory warranties disappeared with the Motor Vehicle Dealers Act that was repealed, as I recall.

Some RMVTs (the new name for dealers) offer an explicit 3 month warranty. They don't have to. Motor vehicle sales by RMVTs are now primarily covered by the Consumer Guarantees Act and disputes are handled by the Motor Vehicle Disputes Tribunal (MVDT), a division of the Justice Department.

Heck flat rate times are another subject, they are formulated on the moon, it seems. Especially with manufacturers warranty this is one of the biggest losses dealers regularly incur. It must be terrible with the Chinese brands.

[Big Dave]

I want to have Wiggles' babies.

[Robert Taylor]

I find it of even more interest that so many in the industry blame the customers for problems within the industry

Well if one of your former posts on this thread is anything to go by you fit the customer profile that many dealers would prefer not to deal with. Too much inbuilt anger.

[Robert Taylor]

That's not SO many people. It's normally one or two...and not all are from the industry

He was of course referring to me as I have dared on many occassions to put forward my views, views that dont happen to agree with his. So be it.

My record of customer service stands on its own two feet and Im not afraid to have a point of view if I see something that I dont agree with.

[The Stranger]

Yep , plenty of bikes have been traded into dealers over the years that the owners knew were timebombs, the sort of faults that cannot be picked up easily with a standard appraisal. The worst examples are 250cc 4 stroke MX bikes where components have gone beyond maximum stress hours and the maintemnace has just not been there. Yes there are shifty dealers, but there are also loads of shifty customers out there.

I tell you, this thread is a real eye opener. Finding out how those in the industry view their customers.
I wouldn't dare speak of my customers the way you guys do. If I did, I'd fully expect to have none.
Furthermore, I'd be thankful of the open an honest feedback i.e. knowing how my customers felt, and working out what I could do to ensure this sort of shit didn't happen again.
Knowing that I'm viewed with suspicion and disdain really doesn't make me want to use the services of those in the industry.
I guess dealerships repairers etc are a license to print money and they don't really need or want customers.

Thank goodness for the Internet, I can buy my stuff from overseas and fit it myself.

I don't know about the motorcycle industry, but I find a mistake is an opportunity.
I try not to make them as it doesn't help you to stay in business if you make too many. But when I do, I so often find that I can cement a relationship that will last for a very long time.

[Robert Taylor]

You think so eh? so Mt Eden have a history of this ? I strongly doubt it as this subject would have appeared on this website before, to my knowledge it hasnt.
I think it demonstrates a slagger with a keyboard and no Balls.

Thats how I read it, interesting to note that he who started this thread has gone quiet and left the roving sharks to do the rest, many basing their opinions on supposition.

I really dont blame Mt Eden for being reluctant to post on this, as it would be akin to jumping into a swimming pool full of hungry sharks.

As the precedent has been more than set with supposition let me offer some of my own. There was possibly more to it than an oil change and the post may have been economical with the truth. NOTE THAT I USED THE WORDS ''POSSIBLY'' AND ''MAY'' !!!!

Mt Eden were good enough to apologise on this thread for the indiscretion re the oil filter. Maybe the staff member was inexperienced or in receipt of incorrect info, human error etc. Either way I dont think it fair that they are so vilified for it.

If indeed there is ''indiscretion'' in the customers post or shall we say economy with the truth he should man up and apologise publicly on this forum.

[Robert Taylor]

I tell you, this thread is a real eye opener. Finding out how those in the industry view their customers.
I wouldn't dare speak of my customers the way you guys do. If I did, I'd fully expect to have none.
Furthermore, I'd be thankful of the open an honest feedback i.e. knowing how my customers felt, and working out what I could do to ensure this sort of shit didn't happen again.
Knowing that I'm viewed with suspicion and disdain really doesn't make me want to use the services of those in the industry.
I guess dealerships repairers etc are a license to print money and they don't really need or want customers.

Thank goodness for the Internet, I can buy my stuff from overseas and fit it myself.

I don't know about the motorcycle industry, but I find a mistake is an opportunity.
I try not to make them as it doesn't help you to stay in business if you make too many. But when I do, I so often find that I can cement a relationship that will last for a very long time.

Actually just in this one instance I am personally staing a reality that happens to motorcycle dealers with some regularity. It was not a statement nor intended to be a statement about customers in general.

Personally I have many very good and very happy customers and always have new ones. Why? Because we are very experienced, give the customers a lot of information and meet them as much as possible on price. Plus in dealing with a highly technical product we always follow through.

There is one guy on this thread who has been giving me a hard time because he thinks Im self righteous. So be it and I have taken note of his childish innuendo. I have no hesitation in saying that he fits the profile of a customer I dont want.

I can well assure you that the perception that being a motorcycle dealer is alicense to print money is so far from the truth its laughable. A high volume Harley dealer, maybe.

Check with my many customers about what we are like to deal with. Straightforward and brutally honest, just like on thios forum.

[DMNTD]

I don't know about the motorcycle industry, but I find a mistake is an opportunity.
I try not to make them as it doesn't help you to stay in business if you make too many. But when I do, I so often find that I can cement a relationship that will last for a very long time.

Agreed, and the customer was apologized to and the issue rectified on the spot. It was a genuine balls up by the employee and system used which he admitted.
Just a bit sad that the OP decided that this wasn't good enough and has decided to 'go national' :shifty:

Needless to say that a lesson has been learnt

[Robert Taylor]

I'm genuinely interested as to why you would think that neccessary.



This isn't intense scrutiny. It's an obvious swindle. Why haven't Mt Eden MC come in to clear up the lies? I'm sure someone would have alerted them to this. Could it be indefensible?

I would suggest that for any professional that it takes anywhere near 1½ hours to change a bike's oil, they should find a new profession.

OLD WORLD COURTESY, no apologies for being old fashioned. When Im doing business with someone I like to know who they are as they like to know who I am, is that so unreasonable? You know I get so many phone calls from people and they dont tell you who they are. Its also like people talking to you wearing dark sunglasses, one of my old fashioned pet hates.

Is it an obvious swindle? All has been based on what the customer said, did he actually divulge ALL the details?

[Headbanger]

Well if one of your former posts on this thread is anything to go by you fit the customer profile that many dealers would prefer not to deal with. Too much inbuilt anger.

Lmfao.

Bush psychology.

It works best when administered over the internet.

[SixPackBack]

Agreed, and the customer was apologized to and the issue rectified on the spot. It was a genuine balls up by the employee and system used which he admitted.
Just a bit sad that the OP decided that this wasn't good enough and has decided to 'go national' :shifty:

Needless to say that a lesson has been learnt


Call up "Jake the muss" give both the customer and employee the bash; ten page threads should never go unpunished.:bash:

[Headbanger]

He was of course referring to me as I have dared on many occassions to put forward my views, views that dont happen to agree with his. So be it.

My record of customer service stands on its own two feet and Im not afraid to have a point of view if I see something that I dont agree with.

Pffft, More melodrama.

When someone says they expect a timely reply to emails whether they be national or International and you spit back chicken little crap about ruining the industry, starving children and express the hope that I lose my income...well.

That crap is too stupid for words. Luckily your buttons are easy to press.

[Crasherfromwayback]

I'd like to say here and now that you guys (and 99% of the time it's guys not the gals) that have the knives out for the bike industry, really wanna have a look at yourselves. We (in the industry) make mistakes from time to time. Who doesn't? But to be hung out to dry...so the hangers on can have a go too? FFS. If you had a single girlfriend fuck around on you...would they all be tainted in your eyes forever??? Would you spit shit on 'hard done by' men only sites? Get a life man. So the original poster had an issue? That wasn't so good...and ok. but for the rest of you to climb aboard and go on and on and on and on and on about how the whole industry is full of ripoff merchants that don't know shit?

You guys really need to get laid or something man.

I'm sure Mt Eden Motorcycles will put it right, and I'm sure it was an honest mistake.Remember people...they do happen. Ask the truck driver that flattened our customers bikes today. That's why we have to take pictures too. If we didn't, next minute there'd be someone on here calling us liars. That WE damaged their bike, and that we're making far fetched stories to cover our asses. THAT is what this world is coming to. Via the internet. It's actually quite fucking sad. And so are some of you lot. And before you start about "so that's what you think about your customers "etc...that's bullshit. Because none of you are...or propably ever will be seeing as you hate the industry and the people that work in it so much.

But I don't survive in the industry as well as I do, or for as long as I have by lying, talking shit or stealing. It's just that some of you (normally the moaners) can't actually handle the facts, or like seeing a spade called just that. But I'm happy to tell it how I see it. I have more satisfied customers that way than sugar coating a load of fucking bollocks.

[Quasievil]

I tell you, this thread is a real eye opener. Finding out how those in the industry view their customers.
I wouldn't dare speak of my customers the way you guys do. If I did, I'd fully expect to have none.

Talk about a generalisation mate

, I'd be thankful of the open an honest feedback i.e. knowing how my customers felt, and working out what I could do to ensure this sort of shit didn't happen again.
And you would be comfortable for your business to have its bad points broadcasted to its specific target market, without any opportunity to resolve it like an adult in the first instance?


that I'm viewed with suspicion and disdain really doesn't make me want to use the services of those in the industry.

Thats silly Noel, common settle with the generalisations, most industries dont have such a highly public and specific forum available to bag them or critique their every move, good or bad


guess dealerships repairers etc are a license to print money and they don't really need or want customers.

Sheeesh


goodness for the Internet, I can buy my stuff from overseas and fit it myself.

Yes and you wont have any issues with that of course eh lol

p.s hope youre all good mate, might see you at the nationals this weekend eh

[SixPackBack]

I'd like to say here and now that you guys (and 99% of the time it's guys not the gals) that have the knives out for the bike industry, really wanna have a look at yourselves. We (in the industry) make mistakes from time to time. Who doesn't? But to be hung out to dry...so the hangers on can have a go too? FFS. If you had a single girlfriend fuck around on you...would they all be tainted in your eyes forever??? Would you spit shit on 'hard done by' men only sites? Get a life man. So the original poster had an issue? That wasn't so good...and ok. but for the rest of you to climb aboard and go on and on and on and on and on about how the whole industry is full of ripoff merchants that don't know shit?

You guys really need to get laid or something man.

I'm sure Mt Eden Motorcycles will put it right, and I'm sure it was an honest mistake.Remember people...they do happen. Ask the truck driver that flattened our customers bikes today. That's why we have to take pictures too. If we didn't, next minute there'd be someone on here calling us liars. That WE damaged their bike, and that we're making far fetched stories to cover our asses. THAT is what this world is coming to. Via the internet. It's actually quite fucking sad. And so are some of you lot. And before you start about "so that's what you think about your customers "etc...that's bullshit. Because none of you are...or propably ever will be seeing as you hate the industry and the people that work in it so much.

But I don't survive in the industry as well as I do, or for as long as I have by lying, talking shit or stealing. It's just that some of you (normally the moaners) can't actually handle the facts, or like seeing a spade called just that. But I'm happy to tell it how I see it. I have more satisfied customers that way than sugar coating a load of fucking bollocks.

The workshop guys at Mt Eden can organise that for yers; $150 for a full service:yes:

[weekendwarrior]

And you would be comfortable for your business to have its bad points broadcasted to its specific target market, without any opportunity to resolve it like an adult in the first instance?

I don't think you would be happy to have your bad points broadcast to your target market without the opportunity to resolve it..... But hang on, they were given the opportunity to resolve it, and did so on the spot, thats double nasty to slag them off I say.
I have had several oil and filter changes done by loads of shops, and found they all varried on price, some even charged me for shit they didn't do also, I am very happy with the one I am currently dealing with. If you felt ripped off by the tiny $10 mistake, (that they sorted) move on. The non return of your business to them is more of a loss than a national slag off on the net.

[Crasherfromwayback]

The workshop guys at Mt Eden can organise that for yers; $150 for a full service:yes:

Sounds like they use good quality lube too! Beeeeeeeaudy!

[nodrog]

......................... I'm sure Mt Eden Motorcycles will put it right................

they did, on the spot, as the guy said in the first post, hence my confusion as to what this threads point actually is?

[Korumba]

Agreed, and the customer was apologized to and the issue rectified on the spot. It was a genuine balls up by the employee and system used which he admitted.
Just a bit sad that the OP decided that this wasn't good enough and has decided to 'go national' :shifty:

Needless to say that a lesson has been learnt

Thank god, now all they need to do is teach Chris to make a coffee in under 1.5hr,
I had the espresso that was free …. no way was I paying $10.00 for the Filter coffee!

[motor_mayhem]

I'd like to say here and now that you guys (and 99% of the time it's guys not the gals) that have the knives out for the bike industry, really wanna have a look at yourselves. We (in the industry) make mistakes from time to time. Who doesn't? But to be hung out to dry...so the hangers on can have a go too? FFS. If you had a single girlfriend fuck around on you...would they all be tainted in your eyes forever??? Would you spit shit on 'hard done by' men only sites? Get a life man. So the original poster had an issue? That wasn't so good...and ok. but for the rest of you to climb aboard and go on and on and on and on and on about how the whole industry is full of ripoff merchants that don't know shit?

You guys really need to get laid or something man.

I'm sure Mt Eden Motorcycles will put it right, and I'm sure it was an honest mistake.Remember people...they do happen. Ask the truck driver that flattened our customers bikes today. That's why we have to take pictures too. If we didn't, next minute there'd be someone on here calling us liars. That WE damaged their bike, and that we're making far fetched stories to cover our asses. THAT is what this world is coming to. Via the internet. It's actually quite fucking sad. And so are some of you lot. And before you start about "so that's what you think about your customers "etc...that's bullshit. Because none of you are...or propably ever will be seeing as you hate the industry and the people that work in it so much.

But I don't survive in the industry as well as I do, or for as long as I have by lying, talking shit or stealing. It's just that some of you (normally the moaners) can't actually handle the facts, or like seeing a spade called just that. But I'm happy to tell it how I see it. I have more satisfied customers that way than sugar coating a load of fucking bollocks.

I have no doubt that there are plenty of witch hunts go on this channel. And plenty of unfounded accusations. But there are some well grounded ones and unfortunately like the bulk of bikers who get tarnished by the disagreeable deeds of a few, so do the bike shops.

[weekendwarrior]

Thank god, now all they need to do is teach Chris to make a coffee in under 1.5hr,
I had the espresso that was free …. no way was I paying $10.00 for the Filter coffee!

LMFTO Thats laugh my fuckin tits off

[Headbanger]

FFS. If you had a single girlfriend fuck around on you...would they all be tainted in your eyes forever??? .


Bitches:angry::angry::angry:

[Crasherfromwayback]

I have no doubt that there are plenty of witch hunts go on this channel. And plenty of unfounded accusations. But there are some well grounded ones and unfortunately like the bulk of bikers who get tarnished by the disagreeable deeds of a few, so do the bike shops.

Aye. And the bikers that get tarnished by the said deeds of the few sure do squeal. Yet when we in the industry do likewise...we're labeled up themselves wanna be demi gods that look down on our customers? Work that out. The simple fact of the matter is...and I'm going to tell it like it is...we get lied to a shitload more than the customer does. You don't have to (and shouldn't have to either) put up with it. But we do.

[sidecar bob]

A former & now deceased business partner of mine that never faltered when it came to calling a spade a fucking spade once told me, if a person tells you, "im never shopping here again", the correct answer is, "Do you promise"?

[Crasherfromwayback]

Bitches:angry::angry::angry:

You know the difference between a slut and a bitch?

A slut fucks everyone.

A bitch fucks everyone but you.

[Conquiztador]

I think the 1 1/2 hour charge for a oil change is brillant news! Now each time I do my own oil changes I will have even more money left over for JD!!

Maann... I am sooo happy! I can't wait for the next time the price goes up on the labour!!

[Katman]

I think the 1 1/2 hour charge for a oil change is brillant news! Now each time I do my own oil changes I will have even more money left over for JD!!



Not from your repair jobs you've told us of in the past.

[weekendwarrior]

I think the 1 1/2 hour charge for a oil change is brillant news! Now each time I do my own oil changes I will have even more money left over for JD!!

Maann... I am sooo happy! I can't wait for the next time the price goes up on the labour!!

You can do mine for a bottle of JD

[Maha]

they did, on the spot, as the guy said in the first post, hence my confusion as to what this threads point actually is?

$10!!!!!...............:blink:
I say we have a wip round?

[Conquiztador]

Not from your repair jobs you've told us of in the past.

Thats not fair! I was drunk and was distracted. Don't you hate it when the females just won't take their hands off ya... Or perhaps that is all foreign to ya?? ;)

[Robert Taylor]

I'd like to say here and now that you guys (and 99% of the time it's guys not the gals) that have the knives out for the bike industry, really wanna have a look at yourselves. We (in the industry) make mistakes from time to time. Who doesn't? But to be hung out to dry...so the hangers on can have a go too? FFS. If you had a single girlfriend fuck around on you...would they all be tainted in your eyes forever??? Would you spit shit on 'hard done by' men only sites? Get a life man. So the original poster had an issue? That wasn't so good...and ok. but for the rest of you to climb aboard and go on and on and on and on and on about how the whole industry is full of ripoff merchants that don't know shit?

You guys really need to get laid or something man.

I'm sure Mt Eden Motorcycles will put it right, and I'm sure it was an honest mistake.Remember people...they do happen. Ask the truck driver that flattened our customers bikes today. That's why we have to take pictures too. If we didn't, next minute there'd be someone on here calling us liars. That WE damaged their bike, and that we're making far fetched stories to cover our asses. THAT is what this world is coming to. Via the internet. It's actually quite fucking sad. And so are some of you lot. And before you start about "so that's what you think about your customers "etc...that's bullshit. Because none of you are...or propably ever will be seeing as you hate the industry and the people that work in it so much.

But I don't survive in the industry as well as I do, or for as long as I have by lying, talking shit or stealing. It's just that some of you (normally the moaners) can't actually handle the facts, or like seeing a spade called just that. But I'm happy to tell it how I see it. I have more satisfied customers that way than sugar coating a load of fucking bollocks.

Ive never always agreed with you and your delivery is brutal, but well said.

[Conquiztador]

You can do mine for a bottle of JD

Deal! You bring the oil and the filter and I will even share the bottle with ya!:Punk:

[weekendwarrior]

Deal! You bring the oil and the filter and I will even share the bottle with ya!:Punk:

Sweet I get a $10 discount at liquor king

[Robert Taylor]

Pffft, More melodrama.

When someone says they expect a timely reply to emails whether they be national or International and you spit back chicken little crap about ruining the industry, starving children and express the hope that I lose my income...well.

That crap is too stupid for words. Luckily your buttons are easy to press.

Well I think you should start a motorcycle shop because you clearly have all the answers and have impeccable public relations skills!

Now please get your dirty gumboots off my marble entrance foyer, financed from the exorbitant profits I make.

[Conquiztador]

Sweet I get a $10 discount at liquor king

Take it to Mt Eden MC, they will give you a filter for that!!! :done:

[Crasherfromwayback]

Ive never always agreed with you and your delivery is brutal, but well said.

We've had many disagreements Robert, and I've been as brutal in my replies to you as I have some others here. But you can't turn pig shit into strawberry jam!

[The Stranger]

Agreed, and the customer was apologized to and the issue rectified on the spot. It was a genuine balls up by the employee and system used which he admitted.
Just a bit sad that the OP decided that this wasn't good enough and has decided to 'go national' :shifty:

Needless to say that a lesson has been learnt

Personally I think you handled the situation in an appropriate manner.
My comments were a little too general.
I do apologise to you sir.

[BMWST?]

No way. Without customers I'd be broke and looking for work! There's always gonna be mistakes, fuckups...misunderstandings...whatever you wanna call them. You can only ever do your best. Sometimes that's simply not enough.
and thats where old Alans 'its the putting right that counts" comes in,cos it whats happens when the shit hits the fan that sorts one from the other.

[release_the_bees]

For what its worth, I have had nothing but good experiences from Mt. Eden Motorcycles, which is handy as they are only five minutes walk from my house. If I had to be really picky, the only negative I can think of is occasionally forgetting to call me as agreed ("We'll give you a call before 5pm to let you know how things are going"). Apart from that, and the fact it takes ages to order in parts (which isn't their fault), I have only positive things to mention and would highly recommend them.

[Mully]

As your comment on the invoice and standard charge - thats complete bullshit. They should never ever charge out something that wasnt done or required and the mechanic should confirm the work he done, and the time he did it in. Its just basic bussiness sence. If the person doing the invoice dosent know - they should find out..

I didn't say it wasn't bullshit, and I didn't say it was right. I was trying to give a perspective on how it could have happened.

BTW: there was some shaven-haired bloke at Mt Eden who refused to give me a Shoei. If that's not worth burning, I don't know what is....

[Maha]

For what its worth, I have had nothing but good experiences from Mt. Eden Motorcycles, which is handy as they are only five minutes walk from my house. If I had to be really picky, the only negative I can think of is occasionally forgetting to call me as agreed ("We'll give you a call before 5pm to let you know how things are going"). Apart from that, and the fact it takes ages to order in parts (which isn't their fault), I have only positive things to mention and would highly recommend them.

I also have had an experience in that bike shop.
Free coffee, Free hugs (and one from tammy) the list goes on, though, the coffee did resemble an oil slick but it tasted devine so I cant complain.

[Headbanger]

Well I think you should start a motorcycle shop because you clearly have all the answers and have impeccable public relations skills!

Now please get your dirty gumboots off my marble entrance foyer, financed from the exorbitant profits I make.

Twat, What we were discussing were your attempts to control the internet, Not run a store.

So good luck with that.

Though I can see why you struggle, after all you have just mistaken a public forum for your marble foyer. But that explains a fair bit.

[The Stranger]

I can well assure you that the perception that being a motorcycle dealer is alicense to print money is so far from the truth its laughable. A high volume Harley dealer, maybe.


I love it. After all this time you still bite on that one.

[Headbanger]

I have no hesitation in saying that he fits the profile of a customer I dont want.



One of these days I'm going to call in and spend thousands of dollars just to spite you.

Lmfao.

[kwaka_crasher]

OLD WORLD COURTESY, no apologies for being old fashioned. When Im doing business with someone I like to know who they are as they like to know who I am, is that so unreasonable? You know I get so many phone calls from people and they dont tell you who they are. Its also like people talking to you wearing dark sunglasses, one of my old fashioned pet hates.

Fair enough in person, not so much here.


Is it an obvious swindle? All has been based on what the customer said, did he actually divulge ALL the details?

No. You are correct. I was out of line with the 'obvious swindle' comment.

The OP is conspicuous by his absence now too which detracts from his credibility.

[rebel]

TBH, if you take your bike to a dealer for an oil change, you deserve to get raped like that. You should have just asked on here, I would have done it for a box of piss. At least the chick who works there is pretty hot.

[Robert Taylor]

One of these days I'm going to call in and spend thousands of dollars just to spite you.

Lmfao.

Please dont wear your gumboots and please also provide proof that your levies to National party membership are paid up.

[Robert Taylor]

I love it. After all this time you still bite on that one.

It happens to be very true!

BTW Craig loves his CBR1000RRs

[The Stranger]

And before you start about "so that's what you think about your customers "etc...that's bullshit. Because none of you are...or propably ever will be seeing as you hate the industry and the people that work in it so much.




Ive never always agreed with you and your delivery is brutal, but well said.

You sir are full of shit.
I purchased the last 5 bikes I bought from Henderson Motorcycles, 3 of them new.
I bought second hand from the dealer even though I knew they were significantly cheaper on trademe.
I have purchased suspension from Robert Taylor 5 times now.
I have bought leathers, gloves and cordura gear from Quasi.

Fucked if I ever will ever bother to support the local industry again, from the sound of it we'll all be much better off.

PS. Thanks for the reality check and Wicked awesome job on the PR guys.

[Conquiztador]

One of these days I'm going to call in and spend thousands of dollars just to spite you.

Lmfao.

roflmfao. Priceless.

[Robert Taylor]

Fair enough in person, not so much here.



No. You are correct. I was out of line with the 'obvious swindle' comment.

The OP is conspicuous by his absence now too which detracts from his credibility.

I think old world courtesy or even just plain courtesy should apply no matter what the form of communication is. For what its worth I admire your humility re the validity or otherwise of comments. I could still be wrong on that one but all along there has to be another side to the story and an etiquette about how you go about things.

While also the buck always stops with the manager any manager will tell you they cannot keep an eagle eye on staff every second of every day. Mistakes get made and some of them are just so stupid

Its certainly been a feeding frenzy.

[Robert Taylor]

You sir are full of shit.
I purchased the last 5 bikes I bought from Henderson Motorcycles, 3 of them new.
I bought second hand from the dealer even though I knew they were significantly cheaper on trademe.
I have purchased suspension from Robert Taylor 5 times now.
I have bought leathers, gloves and cordura gear from Quasi.

Fucked if I ever will ever bother to support the local industry again, from the sound of it we'll all be much better off.

PS. Thanks for the reality check and Wicked awesome job on the PR guys.


So answer honestly, were you happy 5 times and was I reasonable to deal with?

If you take the trouble to read the posts that I put up you will note that they concede fault on both parties. I saw it as one sided and was saying there had to be another side to the story. But you misconstrue that I think customers shouldnt blanketly be trusted, you have misinterpreted.

Human nature means there will be good dealers and good customers. It also means there will be bad dealers and bad customers.
Crasherfromwayback was correct in intimating that some customers can be dodgy ( usually a small minority ), that applies very often at trade in time when known but not immediately obvious faults are not disclosed. He and I have been in the trade much longer than most and have more times than we care to remember been on the recieving end of dishonest customers. Its fair and reasonable to mention that. Its not all about big bad dealers, it just seems to be fashionable to denigrate motorcycle dealers far and wide.
The trade is by no means perfect and if anything its now worse than in living memory, thats in part because the politicians wrecked our training institutions, its also in part because too many Kiwis seem to have lost that work ethic and tenacity to do the job properly. Thats reflecting in a lot of industries, not only in NZ.

[Berries]

Are they open on Sundays ? Or am I in the wrong thread ?

[The Stranger]

So answer honestly, were you happy 5 times and was I reasonable to deal with?

If you take the trouble to read the posts that I put up you will note that they concede fault on both parties. I saw it as one sided and was saying there had to be another side to the story. But you misconstrue that I think customers shouldnt blanketly be trusted, you have misinterpreted.

Human nature means there will be good dealers and good customers. It also means there will be bad dealers and bad customers.
Crasherfromwayback was correct in intimating that some customers can be dodgy ( usually a small minority ), that applies very often at trade in time when known but not immediately obvious faults are not disclosed. He and I have been in the trade much longer than most and have more times than we care to remember been on the recieving end of dishonest customers. Its fair and reasonable to mention that. Its not all about big bad dealers, it just seems to be fashionable to denigrate motorcycle dealers far and wide.
The trade is by no means perfect and if anything its now worse than in living memory, thats in part because the politicians wrecked our training institutions, its also in part because too many Kiwis seem to have lost that work ethic and tenacity to do the job properly. Thats reflecting in a lot of industries, not only in NZ.

Surely I wouldn't have dealt with you the next 4 times were I not happy with the service and the result.
I trust that answers that.

The whole bloody thread is about perception isn't it? I have seen a thousand times where perception is more important than the actual service itself.
The OP perceived (rightly or wrongly) that he had been ripped off (to paraphrase).
Assuming the service was good then this is simply another instance where the perception is more important than the service.


I conveyed my perception of the thread based on posts by you, sidcar bob, crasher and Quasi. It should have served as a warning that the industry reps are alienating their clientèle. Again, I would like to know if I were doing this to my clients. I would love the opportunity for client to say "look mate, you're fucking me off big time, if things don't change we're going to another supplier".

Having given my honest opinion crasher chose to berate the messenger (who actually isn't such a bad customer) and you quoted him and noted your support.

Why would you guys (industry reps) choose to alienate your customers?
So may I respectfully suggest that when your customers speak you (i.e. all industry reps) listen.

[SS90]

I would love too hear from someone who used to work in the industry, and now has a "NORMAL" job, and what their experiences are with various shops. The biggest critics appear to be Mining workers, milkmen,local council civil servants and such like.

I assure you, it is a different world to that which you believe.

[Crasherfromwayback]

You sir are full of shit.
I purchased the last 5 bikes I bought from Henderson Motorcycles, 3 of them new.
I bought second hand from the dealer even though I knew they were significantly cheaper on trademe.
I have purchased suspension from Robert Taylor 5 times now.
I have bought leathers, gloves and cordura gear from Quasi.

Fucked if I ever will ever bother to support the local industry again, from the sound of it we'll all be much better off.

PS. Thanks for the reality check and Wicked awesome job on the PR guys.

Not at all. I'll tell you something now then. BEFORE I worked in the industry...I purchased around 20 motorcyles, fuck knows how many thousands of dollars worth of gear, and never had an issue with anything. A lot of that probably had to do with the fact that I realise sometimes mistakes are made...and we're all only human. So I didn't have the "they're all trying to rip me off attitude", nor an attitude at all.

I've since worked in 5 shops both here and in Australia, been lucky enough to have worked with some of the best in the industry, and can honestly tell you that you're the one that's full of shit. Because no one I've yet met in the industry intentionally rips customers off. I also think if I was that full of shit...I'd not still be going strong after 23 years. So unwind ya panties.

[SixPackBack]

Not at all. I'll tell you something now then. BEFORE I worked in the industry...I purchased around 20 motorcyles, fuck knows how many thousands of dollars worth of gear, and never had an issue with anything. A lot of that probably had to do with the fact that I realise sometimes mistakes are made...and we're all only human. So I didn't have the "they're all trying to rip me off attitude", nor an attitude at all.

I've since worked in 5 shops both here and in Australia, been lucky enough to have worked with some of the best in the industry, and can honestly tell you that you're the one that's full of shit. Because no one I've yet met in the industry intentionally rips customers off. I also think if I was that full of shit...I'd not still be going strong after 23 years. So unwind ya panties.

Bike dealers don't occasionally rip people off?.....Dude I doubt there is a single soul in KB land that would believe that; no doubt the dealer calls it "maximizing profit" or some other similar white lie. No doubt a fair degree of cognitive dissonance comes into play, but the effect is still the same-a lie is a lie regardless of whether you choose to ignore it happening

I have seen some grandiose statements on KB but that one takes first place.

[SS90]

cognisant dissonance




Do you mean COGNITIVE DISSONANCE?

[SixPackBack]

Do you mean COGNITIVE DISSONANCE?

Sorry spell check mistake.

[The Stranger]

Not at all. I'll tell you something now then. BEFORE I worked in the industry...I purchased around 20 motorcyles, fuck knows how many thousands of dollars worth of gear, and never had an issue with anything. A lot of that probably had to do with the fact that I realise sometimes mistakes are made...and we're all only human. So I didn't have the "they're all trying to rip me off attitude", nor an attitude at all.

I've since worked in 5 shops both here and in Australia, been lucky enough to have worked with some of the best in the industry, and can honestly tell you that you're the one that's full of shit. Because no one I've yet met in the industry intentionally rips customers off. I also think if I was that full of shit...I'd not still be going strong after 23 years. So unwind ya panties.

At no stage did I suggest anyone was trying to rip anyone off.
Why are you quoting me then spouting bullshit like that?
After 23 years in of success in the industry, perhaps the industry could reward you with some reading comprehension lessons.

Prior to the various industry reps displaying their open disdain for customers in this thread I thought most of them would have valued their clients. What can I say, I was wrong. Ironically had they (yourself, sidecar bob, RT) shut up and left it to DMNTD to deal with, their customers would still be under the delusion that they are valued, not just bunch of scum of the earth rip off bastards. That's my opinion after 40yrs as a consumer and still going strong.

[avgas]

Are they open on Sundays ? Or am I in the wrong thread ?
wrong thread. this one is the customer complaining about lack of service. the other one is about customers complaining about not being allowed to get inside the store to receive a lack of service.
conclusion : motorcycle customers are masochists either way

[avgas]

While we are on bashing people. Any recruitment agents here - cos I think you lot are the scum of the earth.

[Smifffy]

wrong thread. this one is the customer complaining about lack of service. the other one is about customers complaining about not being allowed to get inside the store to receive a lack of service.
conclusion : motorcycle customers are masochists either way

No, in this thread the service was fine, the complaint was about a charge for non-required parts billed for during the service.

1 question for the industry guys: If services etc are charged at standard flat rates, why not invoice them as such?

I.e.:
1 standard service including oil change $95.00

rather than trying to itemise it all out, and then try and come up with a one price fits all end result?

Ok a 2nd question:

If as a scum of the earth rip-off bastard customer, I am prepared to come in and pay whatever the going rate is for labour on an oil change and service (say $60-80 per hour) regardless of the time required, would it not also follow that I perhaps would not then want to use the cheapest oil & filter combo available?

[Headbanger]

I'm pretty damn angry with my ISP, When I complained about how poor their provided service is they insisted three times that it was acceptable.

Bastards.