Am I being unreasonable?

[Headbanger]

I attended a training course on dec 16, met the criteria (because the only way to fail is to not turn up) and was awarded the unit standards.

I have received the certification from the training orginisation to say I passed yet the units have never been registered with the NZQA so in my mind the bit of paper is worthless. Its like getting a drivers license without anyone ever entering it into the system.

The other issue is that these credits get consolidated into a real qualification when you reach a certain level, this can't happen when the bastards aren't registering them.

A couple of years back when I created a student account at the NZQA I discovered that much of the training I had done in the years before had never been registered (and when I contacted these training providers they refused to register due to the amount of time that had passed), So I encourage everyone to have a look at the NZQA site and see if their training has been recorded. Its a matter for concern.

Anyway, Back to the current situation, I have sent off 5 or 6 emails asking about the status of the credits earned in Dec, I was pretty much ignored apart from a single email telling me they would look into it and get back to me.

No one ever got back to me.

A couple of days ago I wrote them another email stating I was going to lay a complaint with the NZQA (I have no idea if they would give a damn) and finally received a response.

They informed me that I was being unreasonable, Queried why I would even want my credits registered in an unreasonable time ( I mean ffs ) Informed that there is no delay, and btw it maybe 6 more months before they are registered, and that...wait for it, It has nothing to do with them and isn't there problem.

In fact, there is no problem except I'm complaining.

However because I'm being so unreasonable they will query if the process can be fast tracked. Its too fucking late to fast track it fuckballs.

**Bangs head against wall**

One of the worst things about this country is not the crap service we get, But that these fuckers insist its actually great service.

[Swoop]

Was the training organisation a PTE (Private Training Establishment) or part of the mainstream education system (university, polytech)?

[Leviticus]

I think that's just typical of the laid back attitude of a lot of NZ business and organisations. Personally I find it an unprofessional attitude and frustrating having to deal with any of these muppets, having had to get my UK qualifications converted into NZQA standards caused anal leakage on many occasions.

I hear you brother

[oldrider]

Of course you are being unreasonable, they are right and taxpayers are funding them, how can they be wrong? Shame on you! :mellow:

[martybabe]

one of the worst things about this country is not the crap service we get, But that these fuckers insist its actually great service.

100% agree with you mate, my particular gripe is with INZ but boy can I relate, it seems beyond their comprehension that they may actually be in the wrong, at all, ever.

No you are not being unreasonable but I can guarantee they see you as being just that, six months to register FFS, they could re- write war and peace in Swahili in that time. I am so over bureaucratic numpties.:angry:

[Headbanger]

Was the training organisation a PTE (Private Training Establishment) or part of the mainstream education system (university, polytech)?

Both.

The company that runs the courses then hands it over to a Polytech to register the credits.

Thats how they can state it has nothing to do with them, even though they advertised and ran the courses and are the only contact. Hell, its in their course information that the credits get registered.

Damn, I'm stressed.

I have spent two years working towards a specific qualification, These credits are all that I need to reach that threshold and the fuckers are fucking me around, Now I'm unemployed, Looking for work and the cunts have made it so I'm still have no qualification.

Fuckity fuck fuck.


Fuck

Fuck fuck

Fuck

[Swoop]

Both.

The company that runs the courses then hands it over to a Polytech to register the credits.
Ok.
Formal letter to the company that did the training, saying "not happy".
Direct contact with the academic registry of the polytech concerned (Taranaki?) asking what the agreement is with XYZ company and the credit recognition process with them.
The polytech will have a vested interest here, since they claim government funding based on learning "successes" so shouldn't normally bugger around with doing this.

Plan B: Formal complaints to the Commerce Commission (misleading advertising) and also to NZQA (polytech operating under their systems who are failing to comply with the requirements to process results in a timely manner).

[Ronin]

I would go to NZQA. If your qualification is dependant on those credits being registered then your well and truely fucked until they are.

You could also drop Paula Bennett a line and mention you will end up on her benifit if it's not sorted lol.

[slofox]

"Am I being unreasonable? "

No. Have at them. Bastards!

[Smifffy]

I assume that you (or your employer at the time) chose this particular course/training provider specifically beacause NZQA credits were on offer. Therefore it is not unreasonable to expect that the credits would be added to the record of learning within 30 working days of completion of the course. Even allowing for the limited number of working days that the training establishment puts in, I would expect it to to be sorted by now. Even if the training provider had said that they had forwarded the relevant info on to the next link in the chain on such and such a date would have been helpful.

Maybe you could do the Tiger Beer thing and threaten to FW their email to every HR/training organiser in your industry? Bwahahaha

Seriously, a call to someone in your ITO might help.

[Bounce001]

I attended a training course on dec 16, met the criteria (because the only way to fail is to not turn up) and was awarded the unit standards.

I have received the certification from the training orginisation to say I passed yet the units have never been registered with the NZQA so in my mind the bit of paper is worthless. Its like getting a drivers license without anyone ever entering it into the system.

The other issue is that these credits get consolidated into a real qualification when you reach a certain level, this can't happen when the bastards aren't registering them.

A couple of years back when I created a student account at the NZQA I discovered that much of the training I had done in the years before had never been registered (and when I contacted these training providers they refused to register due to the amount of time that had passed), So I encourage everyone to have a look at the NZQA site and see if their training has been recorded. Its a matter for concern.

Anyway, Back to the current situation, I have sent off 5 or 6 emails asking about the status of the credits earned in Dec, I was pretty much ignored apart from a single email telling me they would look into it and get back to me.

No one ever got back to me.

A couple of days ago I wrote them another email stating I was going to lay a complaint with the NZQA (I have no idea if they would give a damn) and finally received a response.

They informed me that I was being unreasonable, Queried why I would even want my credits registered in an unreasonable time ( I mean ffs ) Informed that there is no delay, and btw it maybe 6 more months before they are registered, and that...wait for it, It has nothing to do with them and isn't there problem.

In fact, there is no problem except I'm complaining.

However because I'm being so unreasonable they will query if the process can be fast tracked. Its too fucking late to fast track it fuckballs.

**Bangs head against wall**

One of the worst things about this country is not the crap service we get, But that these fuckers insist its actually great service.


NO you ar enot being unreasonable.

I work for a PTE and this is a totally unreasonable amount of time to wait. I would go and see them personally and also lodge a formal complaint with NZQA and also TEC (Tertiary Education Commision). It is up to the organisation that gave you your certificate to register you credits. Who were you dealing with in the orgainsation? If not already, go straight to the manager with your complaint. Take copies of your emails and replies. Also send these with your complaint to NZQA and TEC.

They have been telling you a load of crap that it may take longer than 6 months to register them and it isn't anything to do with them. It is totally up to them. Maybe it was like this 10 years ago but not now.

As a tutor I send the evidence of units/credits to our head office. Head office put the credits through to NZQA and this process take about 2 weeks max. As I say, they are talking crpa and trying to fob you off.

NZQA and TEC would be interested in your complaint as there are many dodgy PTE's and other training organisations out there and they are the ones who fuck it up for the rest of us.

Good luck. If you want to know more about the complaints process for NZQA and TEC pm me.

[CookMySock]

Make the complaint. Don't argue with them. If NZQA gives you the finger then take it upstairs.

Steve

[Ronin]

Make the complaint. Don't argue with them. If NZQA gives you the finger then take it upstairs.

Steve

Nah, International is the way to go.

[avgas]

NZQA have always been a joke.
I personally could not give a fuck if my stuff has been registered with them. If anyone asks me about my credits I will get them to ask me a question about what I learnt......on the spot then and there.
If I don't know it, I obviously should not or did not attend the course.

[Headbanger]

Thanks for all the input people, Much appreciated.

I tend to get pissed off about shit, go in all guns blazing, fuck shit up, burn a few bridges, upset a few people, and then realise I may have been slightly in the wrong,and there were far better ways to proceed.

Anyway, I received a reply from the NZQA today advising me that under the criteria for continuing accreditation a PTE is required to report learner achievement to NZQA as soon as practicable after assessment has taken place. There is more but I'd consider it confidential but its prompted me to start the formal complaints procedure.

The credits have now been registered but....fuck em.

[FJRider]

I attended a training course on dec 16, met the criteria (because the only way to fail is to not turn up) and was awarded the unit standards.



There lies the key to your problem ...


NZQA do have standards too ... and there are some courses that do not recieve NZQA recognition. Especially some courses that attendance is all that is required to pass. Perhaps in future, you attend courses that DO have NZQA accreditation ...

[Headbanger]

There lies the key to your problem ...


NZQA do have standards too ... and there are some courses that do not recieve NZQA recognition. Especially some courses that attendance is all that is required to pass. Perhaps in future, you attend courses that DO have NZQA accreditation ...

My god man, You're a genius.

No wait, My mistake.

Your an idiot.

[FJRider]

My god man, You're a genius.

No wait, My mistake.

Your an idiot.

Your the one attending courses that ain't worth shit to NZQA ...

[Headbanger]

Your the one attending courses that ain't worth shit to NZQA ...

Factually incorrect.

...........................HA.


And for the record I don't consider you an idiot, But I did enjoy calling you one.

[FJRider]

NZQA accreditation is something you check before attending courses ... and ask all the silly questions before starting. Unless it is required for you work. THEN ... it matters little, except for your own satisfaction. (add certificate to your CV) and use it as a stepping stone to higher qualifications later ...

Paperwork on some smaller courses always take time ...


And for the record ... I am a self-declared smarty-pants (some may read shit-stirrer)

[Headbanger]

NZQA accreditation is something you check before attending courses ... and ask all the silly questions before starting. Unless it is required for you work. THEN ... it matters little, except for your own satisfaction. (add certificate to your CV) and use it as a stepping stone to higher qualifications later ...

Paperwork on some smaller courses always take time ...


And for the record ... I am a self-declared smarty-pants (some may read shit-stirrer)

And apparently did not read anything I posted after skimming over the very first post and making some incorrect assumptions.

[peasea]

Fuckity fuck fuck.


Fuck

Fuck fuck

Fuck

This was the best bit.
Have some bling for your stress if nothing else.

[Jantar]

I attended a training course on dec 16, met the criteria (because the only way to fail is to not turn up) and was awarded the unit standards.

I have received the certification from the training orginisation to say I passed yet the units have never been registered with the NZQA so in my mind the bit of paper is worthless. Its like getting a drivers license without anyone ever entering it into the system.

The other issue is that these credits get consolidated into a real qualification when you reach a certain level, this can't happen when the bastards aren't registering them.

A couple of years back when I created a student account at the NZQA I discovered that much of the training I had done in the years before had never been registered (and when I contacted these training providers they refused to register due to the amount of time that had passed), So I encourage everyone to have a look at the NZQA site and see if their training has been recorded. Its a matter for concern.

Anyway, Back to the current situation, I have sent off 5 or 6 emails asking about the status of the credits earned in Dec, I was pretty much ignored apart from a single email telling me they would look into it and get back to me.

No one ever got back to me.

A couple of days ago I wrote them another email stating I was going to lay a complaint with the NZQA (I have no idea if they would give a damn) and finally received a response.

They informed me that I was being unreasonable, Queried why I would even want my credits registered in an unreasonable time ( I mean ffs ) Informed that there is no delay, and btw it maybe 6 more months before they are registered, and that...wait for it, It has nothing to do with them and isn't there problem.

In fact, there is no problem except I'm complaining.

However because I'm being so unreasonable they will query if the process can be fast tracked. Its too fucking late to fast track it fuckballs.

**Bangs head against wall**

One of the worst things about this country is not the crap service we get, But that these fuckers insist its actually great service.

You are not being unreasonable in wanting to see your credits registered. However I would question the worth of any credits that can be gained from a one day course without any formal assessment. Each credit is supposed to represent the equivilent of 10 hours study, and should be assessed to ensure that the standard is met. So was this course the assessment part of some study done previously, or was it the actual study. If the former then you certainly have a case. If the latter, then it is possible that course provider is still waiting for your assesment.

[Headbanger]

Right.

This


(because the only way to fail is to not turn up)

is sarcasm.

Every course I have been on I have asked the instructor if they have ever failed anyone, You can guess the answer.

The course was for two days and after each module the assessment was done, and marked. For this particular course I done three modules, and all were selected due to relevance in my (at that time) place of work and to count towards a specific qualification.


17599 Plan a confined space entry
18426 Demonstrate knowledge of hazards associated with confined space
25510 Operate an atmospheric testing device to determine a suitable atmosphere exists to
work safely

[sunhuntin]

i would be interested to find out which PTE you went through. i work as a cleaner for ag challenge, which mainly supplies youth and some older unskilled people. im not aware of them running short courses except for first aid once or twice a year.

i could possibly ask one of the receptionists as to what steps you could take re: your points not being added/received etc. have you gone back to your PTE and asked wtf is going on?

[Headbanger]

Training was done in Auckland , I have been all over the country to get the specific unit standards I was after.

I'm not going to name anyone as Ive started the complaints procedure and the instructors were contractors bought in to run the course, and they were excellent.

[sunhuntin]

ahhh, ok. i assumed youd done the course locally. lol. doh. still, if you want me to ask the girls at ag, im more than happy to :)

[Swoop]

Training was done in Auckland...
Aha. This gets more interesting...

[Conquiztador]

Right

17599 Plan a confined space entry
18426 Demonstrate knowledge of hazards associated with confined space
25510 Operate an atmospheric testing device to determine a suitable atmosphere exists to
work safely


I could have sooo much fun with this... confined space entry... lolol:rofl:

[Jantar]

I found 17599 (5 credits at level 4) and 18426 (4 credits at level 3), but for 25510 I got:

Framework search results 25510
Classification system (0) Qualifications (0) Unit Standards (0)
Classification System
No field, sub-field or domain names found

Qualifications
No qualifications found

Unit Standards
No unit standards found

However for the two I did find that should be 50 hours study, not just a 2 day course.

I'm suprised to find that these are worth so many credits as our industry also covers confined spaces in 2 days, but it is built into elements of other standards.

[Headbanger]

Where does it say a credit has to be equal to 10 hours of study?

[Headbanger]

21550

http://www.nzqa.govt.nz/nqfdocs/units/pdf/25510.pdf

[Jantar]

Where does it say a credit has to be equal to 10 hours of study?
I have been a representive on the ESITO group trhat sets unit standards and credits. 10 hours study per credit is the criteria that we worked to in deciding how many credits each standard was worth.

[Headbanger]

I have been a representive on the ESITO group trhat sets unit standards and credits. 10 hours study per credit is the criteria that we worked to in deciding how many credits each standard was worth.

Interesting.

I can see why that system is flawed then.

How can you define how much new knowledge a person (presumably certified as average) can retain from 10 hours of study? Rigorous scientific testing? was his mind wiped of prior knowledge before starting? And was this compared to a group being trained specifically for that unit standard?

If every industry is just having a punt on what a credit is equal to, or even just a punt on how much knowledge will be retained by their trainees over a period of time then there is going to be massive variance across the board.

Personally I'm pretty comfortable with the system where if you satisfy the requirements of the unit standard then its awarded to you.Hell, I've sat down with some modules and powered through them with nothing but a pen and the crap in my head. Nice and tidy, send it away, get the credits.

I was even asked to write my own document based on the requirements of the unit standard and submit that as they hadn't drawn up an assessment.....

[Smifffy]

21550

http://www.nzqa.govt.nz/nqfdocs/units/pdf/25510.pdf

Aha! thus the missing search results earlier.

21550 != 25510 - stoopid computers

Glad you got your credits. We do our own CS training, and peeps can turn up to site with all manner of credits & unit standards, but they still need to have done our course to be involved in CS work.

[Headbanger]

Glad you got your credits. We do our own CS training, and peeps can turn up to site with all manner of credits & unit standards, but they still need to have done our course to be involved in CS work.

Indeed, and its what I would expect from a competent orginisation.

I've done and overseen a lot of dangerous work in the past, and it doesn't matter how many courses anyone has done, They are a nublitt and start at the bottom only graduating up to the real work as they learn the systems in the real world and prove their competency.

[Maki]

I have been a representive on the ESITO group trhat sets unit standards and credits. 10 hours study per credit is the criteria that we worked to in deciding how many credits each standard was worth.

Typical bureaucratic nonsense. In the real world an employer could care less how many hours of study it took a person to aquire a skill. It is the skill that counts, not the hours. Some people can learn a skill in 10 minutes that others could not aquire in 100 years...

[kwaka_crasher]

Your an idiot.


Your the one attending courses that ain't worth shit to NZQA ...

It's "you're" not "your". Does that make it a draw? :bleh:

[Jantar]

Typical bureaucratic nonsense. In the real world an employer could care less how many hours of study it took a person to aquire a skill. It is the skill that counts, not the hours. Some people can learn a skill in 10 minutes that others could not aquire in 100 years...
Absolutely correct. And nowhere does it say that someone must study for 10 hours to get each credit. In the NZQA criteria it is the ability to demonstrate a skill or knowledge that is important, not the amount of time that is spent in a course. Also why cousres that don't have any assesment attached are meaningless. However there has to be some method to determine which standard is worth 10 credits compared to one that is only worth 3 credits. The average effort required to gain that standard is a good place to start.

[KiWiP]

Not unreasonable. The provider may well be crooked. Taking registration fee then not submitting results so not having to pass on fee. Or more likely completely rubbish administration. Contact NZQA let them know and also contact whoever paid for the course they have a vested interest in seeing their bucks achieve results.