Licence to purchase liquor?

[Winston001]

The sale and purchase of alcohol is once again up for discussion with suggestions the drinking age be raised to 20. And the price be raised substantially.

Alcohol can properly be regarded as a drug. The effects of abuse of alcohol run deep in our society and are witnessed by our doctors and nurses in emergency departments.

But most people don't abuse alcohol. So how do we modify its use without using a sledghammer affecting everyone?

How about a licence to purchase alcohol? Available to all at 20 and it only gets suspended if you commit a crime, or an offence involving alcohol.

[Mudfart]

yep ive suggested it in previous posts. the licence can include the requirement to purchase tobacco too.

[Usarka]

And you can't walk more than 5 minutes without finding a dealer.

[slofox]

I suggested something like that to one of the local MP's - who was, at the time, campaigning for a return to a purchase age of 20...

Me: "Why don't you make the production of ID compulsory for the purchase of alcohol - as is the case in some other parts of the world?"

He: "...Ooooohhhhh I don't think the voters would like that!"

Me: "You just lost my vote ya tit!"

And he did indeed lose my vote.

[slofox]

And you can't walk more than 5 minutes without finding a dealer.

That would probably be the inevitable outcome...

[Magua]

How would a licence to buy affect those who make their own?

[Oakie]

How would a licence to buy affect those who make their own?

Produce the appropriate ID to purchase your alcohol making gear.

[slofox]

Produce the appropriate ID to purchase your alcohol making gear.

Would that then mean that you couldn't purchase yeast or sugar from the supermarket without said ID?

[p.dath]

With any system their is always going to be some abuse. Is it actually bad enough that we need to do something about it? Is it bad enough to actually require Government intervention? Asking the Government to intervene is a big step. We already have a lot of laws and regulations in the area. How come they are not working?
I don't know.

Could we perhaps get parents to do something about their teens that have drinking issues instead, rather than the Police?

[davereid]

The sale and purchase of alcohol is once again up for discussion with suggestions the drinking age be raised to 20. And the price be raised substantially. But most people don't abuse alcohol. So how do we modify its use without using a sledghammer affecting everyone?
How about a licence to purchase alcohol? Available to all at 20 and it only gets suspended if you commit a crime, or an offence involving alcohol.

They will raise the price, no doubt about that - with weekly borrowings of $250,000,000 they will take every dollar they can get, especially if they can be seen to be doing "something" about alcohol abuse.

But, its unlikely to help. Countries like Ireland have expensive alcohol, and high levels of alcohol abuse. Countries like Yugoslavia have long since lost the battle, tax on alcohol from centuries back drove most drinkers to make their own.

Our young people will still choose to take a recreational drug of one type or another. Taxing and restricting alcohol will just make some of the other drugs a more attractive choice by way of price and availability.

[Indiana_Jones]

Produce the appropriate ID to purchase your alcohol making gear.

It's foolproof!

Just like with guns.....

-Indy

[oldrider]

New Zealand has a habit of punishing those who comply with societies rules and rewarding those who disobey!

When in doubt as to what should or could be done about a problem, they simply punish all!

It begins in the public school system by school teachers who are devoid of original thought! :mellow:

[davereid]

Would that then mean that you couldn't purchase yeast or sugar from the supermarket without said ID?

Of course, once you have the yeast you can grow it forever, so you dont need to go back for more. And you can ferment any sugar, simple sugars like cane sugar being able to produce vodka for under $5 a bottle.

Long live prohibition !

Enjoy rakija with my friends !

[Jonno.]

Governments shouldn't give in to the minority who can't handle it and who ruin it for everyone.

It's like banning pies in schools because some kids are fat.

[firefighter]

Our young people will still choose to take a recreational drug of one type or another. Taxing and restricting alcohol will just make some of the other drugs a more attractive choice by way of price and availability.

That is true. As a teenager the sole purpose of consuming alcohol was to get wasted and no other purpose. No teenager truly enjoys a beer.

We used to sum up whether it was cheaper to get tinny or a bottle of whatever.....it was usually cheaper to get a bottle. Now days I do'nt think it is. (you can get more people wasted from a foil than a bottle/buckies!)

You make it more expensive on top of it already being a hassle, and the kids will just be smoking more pot.

[firefighter]

New Zealand has a habit of punishing those who comply with societies rules and rewarding those who disobey!

When in doubt as to what should or could be done about a problem, they simply punish all!

True. Why do'nt they start looking into giving beneficiaries food vouchers, which absolutely cannot be used for for alcohol or cigarette purchases......

That would lower a few of the stats I bet.

[Headbanger]

True. Why do'nt they start looking into giving beneficiaries food vouchers, which absolutely cannot be used for for alcohol or cigarette purchases......

That would lower a few of the stats I bet.

I'd be happy to swap there $100 food voucher for a box of piss.

[Tank]

True. Why do'nt they start looking into giving beneficiaries food vouchers, which absolutely cannot be used for for alcohol or cigarette purchases......

That would lower a few of the stats I bet.

Yep - I think thats a great idea.


I'd be happy to swap there $100 food voucher for a box of piss.

I think they have a name - so you need id to cash 'em (at least I hope they do).

[Headbanger]

I think they have a name - so you need id to cash 'em (at least I hope they do).

well then, They can buy $100 worth of groceries, I'll buy a box of piss, and we can swap in the car park.

In all seriousness I wouldn't, I don't do shitbag deals with shitbags, But I have no doubt that some fuckers would give away their only source of food in order to get on the piss.

[CookMySock]

New Zealand has a habit of punishing those who comply with societies rules and rewarding those who disobey!Therein lies the solution. For a long time I thought things would be better if I was honest, did the right thing, and complied with societys' norms. Now those concepts are reserved for the people I love, and everyone else gets the leftovers - mainly because I'm completely sick of being left the leftovers much to everyone elses' amusement.

Steve

[McWild]

True. Why do'nt they start looking into giving beneficiaries food vouchers, which absolutely cannot be used for for alcohol or cigarette purchases......

That would lower a few of the stats I bet.

WINZ do give out notices like these, but they aren't very common. I don't know the reason for receiving them, but they do explicitly state no alcohol or tobacco, which I think is a grand idea.

[onearmedbandit]

I'd rather see a licence to breed than a licence to buy alcohol.

[blackdog]

I'd rather see a licence to breed than a licence to buy alcohol.

:lol: didn't someone suggest incentives for sterilisation?

[slofox]

WINZ do give out notices like these, but they aren't very common. I don't know the reason for receiving them, but they do explicitly state no alcohol or tobacco, which I think is a grand idea.

Interesting, that. Every time I walk past the WINZ office in Ham East, most of the herd waiting outside are SMOKING! At the price of ciggies, no wonder they need a friggin' benefit...

[neels]

WINZ do give out notices like these, but they aren't very common. I don't know the reason for receiving them, but they do explicitly state no alcohol or tobacco, which I think is a grand idea.They're the vouchers that they get in addition to their normal benefit, and there are certain things you can't buy with them, they get really grumpy with the wife when she tells them they can't buy a cask of wine and 50g of tobacco with their emergency benefit money.

[freedom-wedge]

I'd be happy to swap there $100 food voucher for a box of piss.

Grins, opertunity knocks aye what, I do know what you mean though

[SMOKEU]

The problem here is that our government(s) in recent years have tried to remove personal responsibility from the majority of individuals for non traffic offences, for which they can't readily obtain revenue from.
Instead of holding the individuals responsible for their own actions, they government is trying to blame the actions of criminals on society as a whole. In essence, what the government is saying is "it wasn't his fault he stabbed an innocent person walking down the street, it's because alcohol is too easy to obtain and because pubs don't close early enough", or "he only raped a 12 year old because he had a bad childhood and was exposed to drugs and violence as a child".

The longer this lack of personal responsibility goes on for, the worse the problems are going to get. It's time to start giving out harsh punishments to those drunken troublemakers, and the courts should refuse bail to repeat offenders, and jail sentences should be handed out more readily.

[Winston001]

The problem here is that our government(s) in recent years have tried to remove personal responsibility from the majority of individuals for non traffic offences, for which they can't readily obtain revenue from.
Instead of holding the individuals responsible for their own actions, they government is trying to blame the actions of criminals on society as a whole. In essence, what the government is saying is "it wasn't his fault he stabbed an innocent person walking down the street, it's because alcohol is too easy to obtain and because pubs don't close early enough", or "he only raped a 12 year old because he had a bad childhood and was exposed to drugs and violence as a child".

The longer this lack of personal responsibility goes on for, the worse the problems are going to get. It's time to start giving out harsh punishments to those drunken troublemakers, and the courts should refuse bail to repeat offenders, and jail sentences should be handed out more readily.

Completely understand your frustration but we are already one of the heaviest imprisonment nations among the OECD. It doesn't seem to make any difference. Crime still happens.

[SMOKEU]

Completely understand your frustration but we are already one of the heaviest imprisonment nations among the OECD. It doesn't seem to make any difference. Crime still happens.

Just look at how lightly people get let off these days. If people even are unlucky enough to get arrested for a violent offence, and it does make it through the courts, then the courts do fuck all. Just a slap on the wrist usually.

[scumdog]

True. Why do'nt they start looking into giving beneficiaries food vouchers, which absolutely cannot be used for for alcohol or cigarette purchases......

That would lower a few of the stats I bet.

They do that in many of the states in the US, - a place to sray rent free and food vouchers.

If you swap your food for booze and go hungry? - it's your problem how you get food to eat.

[firefighter]

well then, They can buy $100 worth of groceries, I'll buy a box of piss, and we can swap in the car park.

In all seriousness I wouldn't, I don't do shitbag deals with shitbags, But I have no doubt that some fuckers would give away their only source of food in order to get on the piss.

I hear what you're saying, but it still makes it harder for them so it's a start.

[peasea]

Completely understand your frustration but we are already one of the heaviest imprisonment nations among the OECD. It doesn't seem to make any difference. Crime still happens.

And in amongst those prisoners which ethnicity shows the highest representation?

[Little Miss Trouble]

True. Why do'nt they start looking into giving beneficiaries food vouchers, which absolutely cannot be used for for alcohol or cigarette purchases......

That would lower a few of the stats I bet.


WINZ do give out notices like these, but they aren't very common. I don't know the reason for receiving them, but they do explicitly state no alcohol or tobacco, which I think is a grand idea.


They're the vouchers that they get in addition to their normal benefit, and there are certain things you can't buy with them, they get really grumpy with the wife when she tells them they can't buy a cask of wine and 50g of tobacco with their emergency benefit money.

Emergency food vouchers - I believe every New Zealander is entitled to two a year and they are supposed to be for basic grocery needs.

Sadly, as per usual, there are those out there abusing the system. I did my time on checkouts in a shitsville town where I saw a couple (both on the dole/sickness benefit) purchasing Mussels, Ice cream, lollies along with babies nappies, formula etc with one such voucher and when they went over their set amount? They put the nappies back before they thought about taking the sea food off the list!
Oh, and after their voucher had been processed they then produced a wad of cash to purchase the ciggies & beer - money that was later proven to be the result of the sale of stolen goods...

[Hitcher]

The issue isn't procurement of alcohol. It's the consumption of alcohol. Alcohol is harmless until it is added to humans.

In my lifetime I have consumed a considerable amount of alcoholic beverages that I haven't acquired with my own funds. I am sure the same applies to many other Kiwi Biker contributors.

We also know from the experiences of 80-odd years ago that prohibition doesn't work. Indeed the consumption of spirituous liquors probably goes up compared to beer and wine in those circumstances because it's more concentrated, therefore easier to transport and conceal meaningful quantities.

Regulating the procurement of alcohol also presumes that those legally able to do so will do so with noble intent i.e. for their own personal consumption in the privacy of their own homes, and not shared with those deemed "too young" or irresponsible by The Powers That Be.

The only time I have been privy to Utopia has been whilst under the affluence of incohol. It may be easier to regulate to make consumption of a prescribed daily measure of alcohol mandatory. The Navy called this totting. Perhaps it's time for this noble and historic practice to make a return?

[Mudfart]

With any system their is always going to be some abuse. Is it actually bad enough that we need to do something about it? Is it bad enough to actually require Government intervention? Asking the Government to intervene is a big step. We already have a lot of laws and regulations in the area. How come they are not working?
I don't know.

Could we perhaps get parents to do something about their teens that have drinking issues instead, rather than the Police?
I saw an interview on TV yesterday that said out of 4million people in NZ, 700,000 have a drinking problem.....thats a fairly big problem i reckon. Also, people who smoke for practically all of their lives should not be allowed to take precious hospital care, govt health funding, from those that have been more proactive in society...... the anti smoking education is so hardcaore these days there really IS NO excuse.

[Mudfart]

With any system their is always going to be some abuse. Is it actually bad enough that we need to do something about it? Is it bad enough to actually require Government intervention? Asking the Government to intervene is a big step. We already have a lot of laws and regulations in the area. How come they are not working?
I don't know.

Could we perhaps get parents to do something about their teens that have drinking issues instead, rather than the Police?
I saw an interview on TV yesterday that said out of 4million people in NZ, 700,000 have a drinking problem.....thats a fairly big problem i reckon. Also, people who smoke for practically all of their lives should not be allowed to take precious hospital care, govt health funding, from those that have been more proactive in society...... the anti smoking education is so hardcaore these days there really IS NO excuse.

[Headbanger]

I saw an interview on TV yesterday that said out of 4million people in NZ, 700,000 have a drinking problem.....thats a fairly big problem i reckon.

Take that with a bucket of salt.

Until your crap starts affecting other people there is no problem, even if you choose to drink yourself to an early death. Most of these twats loose all credibility when they start explaining how they define an alcohol problem.

[spacemonkey]

Just look at how lightly people get let off these days. If people even are unlucky enough to get arrested for a violent offence, and it does make it through the courts, then the courts do fuck all. Just a slap on the wrist usually.

The problem there is not weak laws.... There are ample penaltys under what laws we have already, the problem is how the judiciary apply them.
And under the NZ constitution the government is very severly restricted in how they can give the judges a hurry up or scolding.

[scissorhands]

I drink 2-5 natural beers every night. I have hardly ever been over the limit in years except for new years and the odd function with the boys.

However, its not about being right but doing whats best, and if kiwis are getting drunk and screwing up then an answer should help, more than any thing else.

Ladies and gentlemen I give you cannabis

[Woodman]

I was telling one of my staff the other day that the drinking age was going up to 20.

she is 17 and her reply was and I quote " so being 18 will be like being 16 "

Therein lies the reason the drinking age is going up to 20.

[Winston001]

We also know from the experiences of 80-odd years ago that prohibition doesn't work. Indeed the consumption of spirituous liquors probably goes up compared to beer and wine in those circumstances because it's more concentrated, therefore easier to transport and conceal meaningful quantities.

Regulating the procurement of alcohol also presumes that those legally able to do so will do so with noble intent i.e. for their own personal consumption in the privacy of their own homes, and not shared with those deemed "too young" or irresponsible by The Powers That Be.



Good point. However having a licence to purchase is not prohibition - its an entitlement which not every person holds. Just as not every person holds a drivers licence. Yes there will be unlicensed drinkers just as there are unlicensed drivers but if detected they can be dealt with under the law. At the moment a drunk 16yr old is just an unneeded problem for the police.



Until your crap starts affecting other people there is no problem, even if you choose to drink yourself to an early death.

Trouble is, alcohol abuse usually affects lots of other people. The person's immediate family are usually the worse off.

[Headbanger]

Trouble is, alcohol abuse usually affects lots of other people. The person's immediate family are usually the worse off.

Afraid not, The majority of people who abuse alcohol as defined by the anti-alcohol and health brigade have no negative impact on anybody.

I know dozens of people that always have a beer handy, all of them provide for their family's, none of them abuse or bash them.

What we have here is the thin edge of the wedge, and the fuckers behind the campaign want to taint everyone who likes a beer with the same brush.

And have no doubt, if you go visit a court, its mainly the same small group of shitbags appearing week in and week out, the thin end of the wedge just gets smaller and smaller.

All you need to do is access the police/court records for nuisance drunks and there's the people that need to be sorted.

[imdying]

Indeed the consumption of spirituous liquors probably goes up compared to beer and wine in those circumstances because it's more concentrated, therefore easier to transport and conceal meaningful quantities.And there is your problem right there... for a massive percentage of the population, the only aim of booze in this country, is to get shit faced.

[Swoop]

The Navy called this totting. Perhaps it's time for this noble and historic practice to make a return?
The lower deck would approve.

Our navy took their time in getting rid of the squirt ration. 1 March 1990 was the last day for the NZ Navy and the Royal Navy was 31 July 1970. A bit of a difference.

[onearmedbandit]

And there is your problem right there... for a massive percentage of the population, the only aim of booze in this country, is to get shit faced.

I'd agree with that. Go into town here in ChCh on any Thursday/Friday/Saturday night and witness it for yourself. And I've been in the same circumstances in other countries, and it definitely isn't the same (no doubt there are those that are the same, and they face the same problems). We are a very imature country in terms of alcohol consumption, a bit like the kid who has just found the keys to his old mans liquor cabinet.

[imdying]

It's pretty crappy given that there is some really great tasting booze out there. It was actually your missus that introduced me to Vanilla Galliano and thus the Harvey Wallbanger.