Sketchy and James will appeal

[Maido]

http://nzsbk.blogspot.com/2010/04/glen-skachill-james-smith-win-manfeild.html

Friday, 16 April 2010
Glen Skachill / James Smith Win Manfeild Appeal
The drawn out process of appeal for a jumped start in the 600SP race at Manfeild at the end of February has finally be resolved. And some new recommendations suggested.

Report from Motorcycling New Zealand. Friday 16th 2010

Report on Outcome of Appeals Heard on Friday 9th April 2010 at Holiday Inn, Auckland
Airport.

Appeal Panel

Errol Conaghan (Chair) Henry Plowright
Ray Shearman

Appellants

Glen Skachill
James Smith

Meeting Stewards

Warren New
Trevor Heaphy



Outcome

Both appeals were deemed successful on the following grounds

1/ The evidence to support the original decision was insufficient to prove without doubt that an infringement had occurred.

2/ The specific road race rule 22-8-16 was not followed which disadvantaged the competitors in that they were denied the opportunity to defend the penalty imposed.

3/ The starter could not answer questions relating to the start as per rule 6-6-12 due to being distracted and consequently failed to carry out one of the prime starter duties.

The Appeal panel has the following recommendations.

1/ That an improved system to monitor the start in road race be implemented. The operation of the system to be part of the requirements expected from the organising club and a condition of running the event.

2/ Should the start monitoring procedure fail there must be some ability for the
Stewards to remedy the situation. An addendum to rule 22-8-16 is required.

3/ It is recommend that if the Steward decides to investigate a situation like this using rule 7-1 then part ‘b’ should be mandatory.

4/ There is need for clarification that where rules exist in a specialist or discipline chapter that these rules over-rule those relevant rules in the general chapters and that those rules in the general chapters are not a fall back position..

5/ It is recommended that the Steward’s Commission review the use of infringement notices and in particular the rights of the receiver to defend the issue. Currently defence of infringement notices can only be done by appeal.

6/ It is believed that the meeting Stewards imposed the current decision due to
excessive pressure from a rider group rather than clear evidence. The Appeal Panel believe that there was a breach of the MNZ Code of Conduct by at least one competitor. This is not acceptable.

On behalf of the Appeal Panel

Errol Conaghan
Chairman
Posted by NZSBK at Friday, April 16, 2010


I missed this report coming out, may be of interest to a few folks around here. Probably didn't change the final points situation very much, but good to know some changes will be made because of it.

[Biggles08]

http://nzsbk.blogspot.com/2010/04/glen-skachill-james-smith-win-manfeild.html


I missed this report coming out, may be of interest to a few folks around here. Probably didn't change the final points situation very much, but good to know some changes will be made because of it.

Point 6 is interesting....who is that "one competitor?"

6/ It is believed that the meeting Stewards imposed the current decision due to
excessive pressure from a rider group rather than clear evidence. The Appeal Panel believe that there was a breach of the MNZ Code of Conduct by at least one competitor. This is not acceptable.

[slowpoke]

Hmmmmm, don't quite know how to feel about this. From talking to someone with video footage they were confident the initial jump start penalty was appropriate, but on the other it seems like the decision was made without proper evidence to back it up. It's unfortunate that the "jump start" issue still hasn't really been laid to rest.....or has it?

[CHOPPA]

Sure as hell looked like a jumped start from where i was sitting! Eyes must have been playing tricks.

So what does that do to the points?

[Kickaha]

Sure as hell looked like a jumped start from where i was sitting! Eyes must have been playing tricks.

Could you see both lights and riders from where you were?

[Sketchy_Racer]

Hey guys,

Yep Jimmy and I won our appeals which I am really happy about,

Now I understand that everyone is entitled to their own opinions of the events and in a effort to try stopping false rumors, tomorrow I will post both the videos that were submitted and the timing sheet that was submitted, so that everyone can make up there own mind.

Cheers,

-Sketchy

[Biggles08]

Oh there were DEFINITELY jump starts (more than one from my viewpoint) in that race...who it was though, I have no idea as I was busy looking at the lights....the ones I could see out of the corner of my eyes that jumped were further back in the field from the front row though. When we (Phil E and I) questioned the stewards about it after the race they said there was no way of knowing who had jumped and nothing further could be done??!!...

Anyway, well done on winning your appeal Sketchy :-)

[slowpoke]

If nothing else I reckon the points will now more accurately reflect the speed of the guys involved, and thankfully a championship didn't rest on the decision. Just a shame it turned into such a mess with even the ruling creating more questions than it has answered.

Who the hell would want to be an official?!

[gixerracer]

O yea there was a jumped start all right way more than the two who got nailed for it. The problem was not the jump start it is the way in which it was dealt with. There is ment to be I think a 10 secong penalty imposed to said riders with in the first 6 laps displayed with said riders number on a black board shown to said rider as he/she crosses finnish line and this was not done and then it seems MNZ imposed there own made up penalty to only some of the jump starters after pressure from other 600 competitors. Not on MNZ need to understand and inforce there own rule book.

Hmmmmm, don't quite know how to feel about this. From talking to someone with video footage they were confident the initial jump start penalty was appropriate, but on the other it seems like the decision was made without proper evidence to back it up. It's unfortunate that the "jump start" issue still hasn't really been laid to rest.....or has it?

[MSTRS]

Glad to hear that this has been (sort of) resolved.
Why there would need to be new rules added, I don't know. Surely the existing rules are enough. IF they are followed. Which is the reason they exist. Isn't it?

[sinfull]

Hey guys,

Yep Jimmy and I won our appeals which I am really happy about,

Now I understand that everyone is entitled to their own opinions of the events and in a effort to try stopping false rumors, tomorrow I will post both the videos that were submitted and the timing sheet that was submitted, so that everyone can make up there own mind.

Cheers,

-Sketchy
Well done winnin the appeal Glen, i know it was more the principle than the points for ya ! And it gives ya back a well deserved win !

Look forward to viewing the vids !

Saw the start and my opinion is that 2/3 rds of the field were moving before you did !

[Shaun]

O yea there was a jumped start all right way more than the two who got nailed for it. The problem was not the jump start it is the way in which it was dealt with. There is ment to be I think a 10 secong penalty imposed to said riders with in the first 6 laps displayed with said riders number on a black board shown to said rider as he/she crosses finnish line and this was not done and then it seems MNZ imposed there own made up penalty to only some of the jump starters after pressure from other 600 competitors. Not on MNZ need to understand and inforce there own rule book.


AGREED CRAIG, I was in the race office when the voted in riders rep was in there after the race asking Trevor Heaphy and Warren New, what they were going to do about it, there reaction was amazing to me, they did NOT even know what the rule was them selves????

Again Warren New shows up on a doubtfull administartion process like the Andrew Stroud a few years back, that cost us the OWNERS of MNZ money

6/ It is believed that the meeting Stewards imposed the current decision due to
excessive pressure from a rider group rather than clear evidence. The Appeal Panel believe that there was a breach of the MNZ Code of Conduct by at least one competitor. This is not acceptable.

RE ABOVE

Rules re Rules, and if you have problems understanding them, use a dictionary SIMPLE, Same goes for the controlling committee

Undue pressure MY ARSE

The boys folded under the pressure of having to repair the f up they made, by NOT following the rule book, all clear and plain.

I saw at least 80% of the field JUMP START, Should have been instant red flag!

PS, if this comment has me bringing the sport into disrepute???? BUMMER< but it is time the shite got soughted out.

[codgyoleracer]

Tend to agree with Craig / Shaun. The lights stayed red for a fair while & it resulted in a bunch of riders jumping or creeping the start of that race. Usually you would have the starter cancel the countdown in that scenario - but not sure if the automated system allows this now.
Considering how many crept - it would have justified a full restart with verbal warning to field when they came round "jump again & there will be a time penalty given"
Otherwise - follow the rule book & display the numbers of those that got pinged, so that they and there teams are aware early on in the race of the scenario.
Glen

[Maido]

1 5 Nick Cole 182.5
2 2 James Smith 161
3 9 John Ross 133
4 47 Glen Skachill 113.5
5 23 Karl Morgan 102.5
6 4 Dennis Charlett 93
7 515 Jamie Galway 69.5
8 7 Jeremy Holmes 68.5
9 53 Midge Smart 62
10 3 Jay Lawrence 60
11 82 Sam Love 58
12 96 Dominic Jones 57
13 165 Jamie Rajek 28
14 808 Marcus Beagley 25.5
15 26 Cameron Jones 19
16 158 Phil Endean 16.055
17 119 Keelim Ryan 12.5
18 94 Dave Manuell 12
19 98 Stewart Smart 8
20 13 John Beck 8
21 811 Chris Fry 7
22 27 Travis Merkel 6.5
23 65 Damian Mackie 4
24 50 Mark Bennett 3
25 163 John Hanna 3
26 68 Vaughn Paterson 3
27 99 Scott Dowman 0
28 38 Duncan Keene 0
29 411 Bryce Meads 0

Looks like this is the final points now, I got bumped up one place to 8th place (and I definately didn't jump start!), sketchy did this effect your final position at all? I had a feeling you went from 5th to 4th?

[Robert Taylor]

If nothing else I reckon the points will now more accurately reflect the speed of the guys involved, and thankfully a championship didn't rest on the decision. Just a shame it turned into such a mess with even the ruling creating more questions than it has answered.

Who the hell would want to be an official?!

Yes, but the hearing should ideally have occured before the last round, done and dusted. Then there wouldnt have been even more of a dogs breakfast at the prizegiving, taking the wind out of everyones sails.

[Robert Taylor]

AGREED CRAIG, I was in the race office when the voted in riders rep was in there after the race asking Trevor Heaphy and Warren New, what they were going to do about it, there reaction was amazing to me, they did NOT even know what the rule was them selves????

Again Warren New shows up on a doubtfull administartion process like the Andrew Stroud a few years back, that cost us the OWNERS of MNZ money

6/ It is believed that the meeting Stewards imposed the current decision due to
excessive pressure from a rider group rather than clear evidence. The Appeal Panel believe that there was a breach of the MNZ Code of Conduct by at least one competitor. This is not acceptable.

RE ABOVE

Rules re Rules, and if you have problems understanding them, use a dictionary SIMPLE, Same goes for the controlling committee

Undue pressure MY ARSE

The boys folded under the pressure of having to repair the f up they made, by NOT following the rule book, all clear and plain.

I saw at least 80% of the field JUMP START, Should have been instant red flag!

PS, if this comment has me bringing the sport into disrepute???? BUMMER< but it is time the shite got soughted out.

100% agree, unbeknowingly to them I was within earshot when one rider in particular was throwing his toys out of the cot and drumming up support with the said grouping of riders. It wasnt pretty to listen to. And then that same rider several weeks later had the temerity to tell a rival team manager that he had nothing to do with the protest. LIAR. I know who he is and he knows who he is.

[Biggles08]

There was no formal protest is how I understood the situation...that's why the appeal was so easily won...MNZ didn't follow their own rules. Am I mistaken? Did someone officially protest or not?

[Bren_chch]

LIAR. I know who he is and he knows who he is.

I thought he jumped the start also! He just didnt get a good as a jump start as the others hahaha

[Robert Taylor]

I thought he jumped the start also! He just didnt get a good as a jump start as the others hahaha

Yes I think youre right on that one!

[Number One]

oooooooooooooooooooo who who who who who who who whose the crybaby? go on go on go on go on go on go on





Actually nah, don't bother - I don't really care

[Robert Taylor]

oooooooooooooooooooo who who who who who who who whose the crybaby? go on go on go on go on go on go on





Actually nah, don't bother - I don't really care







































When comes down to tin tacks nor do I care, karma will sort it

[cowpoos]

Hey guys,

Yep Jimmy and I won our appeals which I am really happy about,

Now I understand that everyone is entitled to their own opinions of the events and in a effort to try stopping false rumors, tomorrow I will post both the videos that were submitted and the timing sheet that was submitted, so that everyone can make up there own mind.

Cheers,

-Sketchy

Are you still posting the Vid's Glen??????

[Sketchy_Racer]

Are you still posting the Vid's Glen??????

Yeah gotta get them uploaded to you tube which is being a pain in the ass, but will try get them up soon.

Cheers,

-Glen

[slowpoke]

Yeah gotta get them uploaded to you tube which is being a pain in the ass, but will try get them up soon.

Cheers,

-Glen

No time for that Glen, you've gotta get a superbike sorted for next year. Off you pop........

[gixerracer]

what s the point its been sorted now sowho really cares what happened
Yeah gotta get them uploaded to you tube which is being a pain in the ass, but will try get them up soon.

Cheers,

-Glen