Where do you want to see motorcycling heading?

[Katman]

Me, I'd like to see Motorcycling entice the numbers to it's fold that it truly deserves.

I'd like to see the Old Guard accept the fact that an increase in motorcycling numbers is not going to affect their 'hard man' image.

I'd like to see new motorcyclists, who desire to one day be the Old Guard, accept that you'll only get there by surviving.

I'd like to see Motorcycling attract the numbers required to become a political force.

I'd like motorcyclists to realise that the only way that we have a chance of becoming a political force is by becoming an accepted part of society.

I'd like to see Motorcycling grow up.

[Usarka]

Where do you want to see a Motorcycling heading?

Down the road bro.

[mashman]

pretty much what you said apart from the political shit...

[Katman]

pretty much what you said apart from the political shit...

Without the political shit we'll never have a voice.

[sinned]

Without the political shit we'll never have a voice.
Too true. A good objective would be to out politic the AA.

[mashman]

like we'll ever get listened to anyway... we can't even agree amongst ourselves... but if you build it, i will cum.

[Katman]

like we'll ever get listened to anyway... we can't even agree amongst ourselves... but if you build it, i will cum.

Only a rational viewpoint is ever going to be listened to.

We need to become rational.

[mashman]

Only a rational viewpoint is ever going to be listened to.

We need to become rational.

:rofl: someone wake me when that happens, or up my doseage :)... take one look at the government, then take a look around you... you cannot be rational in a world were irrationality prevails... I do agree with the sentiment though... and would whole heartedly throw myself under that bus...

[merv]

Me, I'd like to see Motorcycling entice the numbers to it's fold that it truly deserves.

I'd like to see the Old Guard accept the fact that an increase in motorcycling numbers is not going to affect their 'hard man' image.

I'd like to see new motorcyclists, who desire to one day be the Old Guard, accept that you'll only get there by surviving.

I'd like to see Motorcycling attract the numbers required to become a political force.

I'd like motorcyclists to realise that the only way that we have a chance of becoming a political force is by becoming an accepted part of society.

I'd like to see Motorcycling grow up.

Something like this http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/122734-1st-Gear-It-s-all-right. is needed again to start another revolution - it also went with the "You meet the Nicest People on a Honda" campaign.

What is the next thing 50 years on from the little Honda that can be that next revolution to get the numbers out there? After the little Honda 40 years ago it was the trail bike revolution. Has our environment changed so much and got so PC or got so "bigger is better" that we just don't want the simple things any more? Is it impossible to recreate the simple enthusiasm of that era?

Its like asking how are we going to stop teens binge drinking? Its hard to see an easy answer as far as I can see.

[bogan]

I'd like to see everyone who wants to ride purely for the sake of riding, on a bike.
I'd like to see those people ride responsibly, and ride for many years to come.
I'd like to see those people represent bikers in a good light.
I'd like to see those people treated with the same respect due everyone else.

But what I'd like to see most of all, is a plan for how we can make that shit happen!

[phill-k]

Agree with you katman, a bit like the gun owners ass of America, they have sufficient members that they can make a difference in any election outcome.
But when u see the little silly prick on the morning program saying NZ has grown up enough that we should stop our tradition of Duck shooting cause some get hurt and don't die, for fucks sake they're only bloody ducks. They banned lead shot, much more lethal because the lead gets in our waterways. and I always thought lead was mined anyway.

[Katman]

For a start, the BRONZ organisation needs a shake-down right from the top.

Instead of focusing on bikers 'rights' (for the life of me I can't figure out how we have any place to demand 'rights') BRONZ needs to focus on creating a motorcycling movement that deserves a positive ear.

[Maha]

I'd like to teach the world to sing, and furnish it with love.

[Katman]

I'd like to teach the world to sing, and furnish it with love.

That song's been done.

Come up with a new one and I might consider giving you a job.

[Digitdion]

Me, I'd like to see Motorcycling entice the numbers to it's fold that it truly deserves.

I'd like to see the Old Guard accept the fact that an increase in motorcycling numbers is not going to affect their 'hard man' image.

I'd like to see new motorcyclists, who desire to one day be the Old Guard, accept that you'll only get there by surviving.

I'd like to see Motorcycling attract the numbers required to become a political force.

I'd like motorcyclists to realise that the only way that we have a chance of becoming a political force is by becoming an accepted part of society.

I'd like to see Motorcycling grow up.

To me, it looks as though you have been smoking( not talking about smoking up your rear tyre bro) You are looking at things from way out there. Just bloody ride your bike and enjoy it. That means different thingd for different folks. Do we really need to ANALize everything in this day and age!
numbers it truly deserves?
Old guard?
trying to survive? Shit, thats a aim of mine everytime I ride. I am not suicidal brother.
Why do we need to become a political force. If thats why we ride, i suggest you go smoke some more green brother! then join the green party bro!
How the hell does motorcycling grow Man? I grew up ( probably not what you are dreaming about though) I Got bowled off my GN 250 by a car when i was 17. I never owned a bike after that for 16 years. I then, grew up and bought a KTM 990. Now i am grown up!!!!!!
Go smoke some more and get back to me. I am intriged to hear what crap comes out through ths forum after this!
Cheers Dion!

[Katman]

To me, it looks as though you have been smoking( not talking about smoking up your rear tyre bro) You are looking at things from way out there. Just bloody ride your bike and enjoy it. That means different thingd for different folks. Do we really need to ANALize everything in this day and age!
numbers it truly deserves?
Old guard?
trying to survive? Shit, thats a aim of mine everytime I ride. I am not suicidal brother.
Why do we need to become a political force. If thats why we ride, i suggest you go smoke some more green brother! then join the green party bro!
How the hell does motorcycling grow Man? I grew up ( probably not what you are dreaming about though) I Got bowled off my GN 250 by a car when i was 17. I never owned a bike after that for 16 years. I then, grew up and bought a KTM 990. Now i am grown up!!!!!!
Go smoke some more and get back to me. I am intriged to hear what crap comes out through ths forum after this!
Cheers Dion!

Fuck man, you're precisely the sort of retard I'm aiming to save from themselves.

[bogan]

For a start, the BRONZ organisation needs a shake-down right from the top.

Instead of focusing on bikers 'rights' (for the life of me I can't figure out how we have any place to demand 'rights') BRONZ needs to focus on creating a motorcycling movement that deserves a positive ear.

but how? Our very well behave protest of about 10 thousand people was pretty much ignored.

[Katman]

but how? Our very well behave protest of about 10 thousand people was pretty much ignored.

And why?

Because it deserved to be ignored.

No-one is going to listen to a rebel without a clue.

[bogan]

And why?

Because it deserved to be ignored.

No-one is going to listen to a rebel without a clue.

I dissagree, charley that stats guy and the others had some very clued up things to say. But coming back to the now, how can bronz change things? it seems to me it is more the bikers that need to change.

Or put it this way, if you were bronz president what would you do differently?

[Katman]

I dissagree, charley that stats guy and the others had some very clued up things to say. But coming back to the now, how can bronz change things? it seems to me it is more the bikers that need to change.

Or put it this way, if you were bronz president what would you do differently?

Of course it's us bikers that need to change.

BRONZ needs to pull their head out of their arse and realise that fact.

[Smifffy]

How many people have contacted their insurers to query the stance on protective equipment?

The example given earlier was that of the NRA in the US - they used to have a slogan stating something like X number of people hunt, shoot and VOTE

IMO voting isn't where you get a voice these days - you only get to do it once every 3 years and the effect is massively watered down due to MMP & BS electoral boundaries. The voice comes from your spending power and your everyday actions.

[mashman]

And why?

Because it deserved to be ignored.

No-one is going to listen to a rebel without a clue.

as opposed to 10 of them? 100? 1000? 10,000? where does it start... i'd like to furnish my world with love and then teach it how to sing... but it's full of smarmy ignorant cunts, who give a shit about n-o-o-thing...

[Katman]

but it's full of smarmy ignorant cunts, who give a shit about n-o-o-thing...

Don't be too harsh on yourself.

[Digitdion]

Fuck man, you're precisely the sort of retard I'm aiming to save from themselves.

Hay Bro, If you are really serious about all the dribble you are on about, i suggest you find a better way to achieve it . What do you think you will achieve on this web site bro? No offence to this website by the way. I love it. Perhaps you could form a politcal alliance with john Key at the next election. Seriously, lets sort this out like adults, Come down to queenstown, and i will race you to Glenorchy. May the better man win!
And please, how do you think you will win people over by calling them a retard! you should become a preacher bro!

[bogan]

Of course it's us bikers that need to change.

BRONZ needs to pull their head out of their arse and realise that fact.

So it's a bitch and moan thread rather than a constructive ideas thread, got it.

[Katman]

So it's a bitch and moan thread rather than a constructive ideas thread, got it.

Read it as you will.

[MadDuck]

Fuck man, you're precisely the sort of retard I'm aiming to save from themselves.

I would like to see a breath test before logging on to KB.

[Katman]

And please, how do you think you will win people over by calling them a retard! you should become a preacher bro!

I've always called a spade a spade.

[Katman]

I would like to see a breath test before logging on to KB.

You're a fine one to talk, lush.

[Crisis management]

I'm in as long as there are no bloody counter steering threads and we can all behave as disgraceful old men, I'll even be nice to Dion when he sobers up.......

[mashman]

Don't be too harsh on yourself.

:rofl:... denial is the only thing that keeps us going the way we're going :)... don't tar us all with your brush...

[Katman]

:rofl:... denial is the only thing that keeps us going the way we're going

That's it in a nutshell.

Time we took a good hard look at ourselves.

[Coldrider]

That's it in a nutshell.

Time we took a good hard look at ourselves.nope, not me, but feel free to carry the burden on your shoulders of any others that feel the need.

[Katman]

nope, not me, but feel free to carry the burden on your shoulders of any others that feel the need.

Are you too scared to take a good hard look at yourself?

[mashman]

That's it in a nutshell.

Time we took a good hard look at ourselves.

Perhaps... but it's not like you're telling us anything new, or anything we don't already know...

[Coldrider]

Are you too scared to take a good hard look at yourself?No, never.

[Katman]

Perhaps... but it's not like you're telling us anything new, or anything we don't already know...

Exactly.

Seems that there's far too many that refuse to see the truth though.

[Digitdion]

I'm in as long as there are no bloody counter steering threads and we can all behave as disgraceful old men, I'll even be nice to Dion when he sobers up.......

I can handle my grog. Only had 3 jim and cokes!

[Coldrider]

Exactly.

Seems that there's far too many that refuse to see the truth though. Might come as a bit of a shock to you but there are quite a few motorcyclists that have a helmet full of synapses.
Congratulations, you are not the only one.

[Katman]

Might come as a bit of a shock to you but there are quite a few motorcyclists that have a helmet full of synapses.
Congratulations, you are not the only one.

Why don't they open their mouths then?

[MadDuck]

Why don't they open their mouths then?

So apart from spouting crap on KB what are YOU doing?

[Digitdion]

beautiful boys and girls. Its all gold. Katman........... Seriously mate. From what I read, you are going to blow us all up.( I am not talking about a misfire thru the old bike brother).MaYBE YOU HAVE THE ISSUE, Not us! Mate, why is the sky blue? Actually, I ride my bike because i hate unicyclists. How l;ong is a piece of string brother. Tell us what you want to achieve from this thread and we will get back to you. If its more dribble, we reserve the right to take the piss!

[Digitdion]

So apart from spouting crap on KB what are YOU doing?

I second that!

[Digitdion]

Might come as a bit of a shock to you but there are quite a few motorcyclists that have a helmet full of synapses.
Congratulations, you are not the only one.

Here Hear!

[Digitdion]

Katman, maybe time to go support the hurricanes. We could do with 2 teams in the semi's!

[Katman]

Far too many motorcyclists are in it for the image rather than the experience.

[bogan]

Read it as you will.

Well if thats the case then,
207735

[Digitdion]

Far too many motorcyclists are in it for the image rather than the experience.

Come on mate...... Whats your image them?
Then we will know if we can actually take you seriously as A POLITCAL FORCE!

[MadDuck]

Far too many motorcyclists are in it for the image rather than the experience.

Yes you are so right. I take it all back.

The only reason I ride a motorbike is because I look cool!

[Coldrider]

Why don't they open their mouths then?empty cans make the most noise.

[Katman]

Come on mate...... Whats your image them?
Then we will know if we can actually take you seriously as A POLITCAL FORCE!

The fact that you need to ask it shows you for the halfwit you are.

I'll gladly stand up and say that Motorcycling has an inherent problem. It's up to us all to seek the solution.

[Digitdion]

The fact that you need to ask it shows you for the halfwit you are.

You would make a blooday good politition( is that how you spell it) mate. Did you actually answer the question. Perhaps you could form an alliance and become PM of Great Britain. Show us what you are really made of. None of this bullshit tit for tat. We are having a prod at you because we are fascinated by you.Why there is smoke there is fire they say? Are you all smoke brother? I still have no bloody idea what you are actually trying to point out to us. Get to the point brother, get rid of the mumbo jumbo that you started this thread with. I will not vote for you!

[MadDuck]

I'll gladly stand up and say that Motorcycling has an inherent problem. It's up to us all to seek the solution.

So the problem is?
And the answer is?
What are you going to do about #1 and #2?

[CookMySock]

I'd like to see Motorcycling grow up.Why?

Why not just go ride your own bike? What other people do doesn't affect you, and what you do doesn't affect them.

Go find something interesting to make, and forget about changing people.


Steve

[Berries]

Me, I'd like to see Motorcycling entice the numbers to it's fold that it truly deserves.

I'd like to see the Old Guard accept the fact that an increase in motorcycling numbers is not going to affect their 'hard man' image.

I'd like to see new motorcyclists, who desire to one day be the Old Guard, accept that you'll only get there by surviving.

I'd like to see Motorcycling attract the numbers required to become a political force.

I'd like motorcyclists to realise that the only way that we have a chance of becoming a political force is by becoming an accepted part of society.

I'd like to see Motorcycling grow up.

I'd like to ride my bike whenever I want, however I want. Frankly, everything else is irrelevant to me. I don't care whether more people take it up. I don't care if the numbers dwindle. I don't care about bikers rights. I don't care what anyone else thinks about my riding style, attitude, or clothing. A bike is my preferred mode of transport. And in the end that is all it is, a mode of transport.

[muzz]

Katman get back on your dinosuar and ride through the gates of delirium and stop acting totally weird .

[kave]

So the problem is?
And the answer is?
What are you going to do about #1 and #2?

As far as I can see, Katman thinks the problem is reckless motorcyclists are bad P.R. His solution is to keep nagging at people on Kiwibiker hoping that they will change their hooligan ways. Although his "broken record" approach gets a little annoying you have to admire his persistance and single-mindedness. Everyone has their own perspectives and should be free to act on them as they wish. I would not like to see Jehovah's Witnesses banned from knocking on my door and trying to convert me, and Katman is the Kiwibiker equivalent of a Jehovah's Witness. Nope, I dont reckon the end is nigh Katman, but I would be a little dissapointed if you stopped preaching it.

Personally I dont think that there is a problem. I ride a motorcycle and enjoy doing it. I dont care where motorcycling is headed. To be honest I dont even care where my motorbike is headed so long as the roads are twisty and I'm riding.

[Digitdion]

As far as I can see, Katman thinks the problem is reckless motorcyclists are bad P.R. His solution is to keep nagging at people on Kiwibiker hoping that they will change their hooligan ways. Although his "broken record" approach gets a little annoying you have to admire his persistance and single-mindedness. Everyone has their own perspectives and should be free to act on them as they wish. I would not like to see Jehovah's Witnesses banned from knocking on my door and trying to convert me, and Katman is the Kiwibiker equivalent of a Jehovah's Witness. Nope, I dont reckon the end is nigh Katman, but I would be a little dissapointed if you stopped preaching it.

Personally I dont think that there is a problem. I ride a motorcycle and enjoy doing it. I dont care where motorcycling is headed. To be honest I dont even care where my motorbike is headed so long as the roads are twisty and I'm riding.
he is not persistent. Where has he been for the last 45 odd minutes?

[scooute]

maybe the problem is the media holds too much weight around here and we should all be able to do/have what we want as long as it doesnt endanger anyone elses right to do/have what they want. Instead of the current system of the media turning every little thing into a big deal and then people feel empowered to whip up a political frenzy? there was a day where the media reported what was happening without the political view, now portions of society feed off it the media catch wind of it and report on that and so it grows. I thought politics were supposed to bring about what the people want in a civil manner not to tie us down...? thats IMO of course I think everything has its place, even politics theyve just forgotten where that place is... to better things for all!

[EJK]

Me, I'd like to see Motorcycling entice the numbers to it's fold that it truly deserves.

I'd like to see the Old Guard accept the fact that an increase in motorcycling numbers is not going to affect their 'hard man' image.

I'd like to see new motorcyclists, who desire to one day be the Old Guard, accept that you'll only get there by surviving.

I'd like to see Motorcycling attract the numbers required to become a political force.

I'd like motorcyclists to realise that the only way that we have a chance of becoming a political force is by becoming an accepted part of society.

I'd like to see Motorcycling grow up.

Wow you speak as if Motorcyclists are like another country.

[oldrider]

Me, I'd like to see Motorcycling entice the numbers to it's fold that it truly deserves.

I'd like to see the Old Guard accept the fact that an increase in motorcycling numbers is not going to affect their 'hard man' image.

I'd like to see new motorcyclists, who desire to one day be the Old Guard, accept that you'll only get there by surviving.

I'd like to see Motorcycling attract the numbers required to become a political force.

I'd like motorcyclists to realise that the only way that we have a chance of becoming a political force is by becoming an accepted part of society.

I'd like to see Motorcycling grow up.

I want motorcycles to be accepted as a legitimate and normal form of transport and not some unnecessary form of fun and entertainment!

Motorcycles should also be treated equal to other road users and other road users should be made aware of their right to legitimately exist!

I believe we should be given this right regardless of anything else!

Our behaviour is always in need of improvement but that has nothing to do with the conditions of our basic rights to exist.

[Dare]

The fact that you need to ask it shows you for the halfwit you are.

I'll gladly stand up and say that Motorcycling has an inherent problem. It's up to us all to seek the solution.

If the problem is with motorcycling and not motocyclists then I suggest you are barking up the wrong tree.

Yes there is a public image problem but a forum is not the place to fix it. Make some adverts, get some sponsored training going, start a website. The word is your shellfish and you obviously feel strongly enough to make a start.

[Katman]

If the problem is with motorcycling and not motocyclists then I suggest you are barking up the wrong tree.

Yes there is a public image problem but a forum is not the place to fix it. Make some adverts, get some sponsored training going, start a website. The word is your shellfish and you obviously feel strongly enough to make a start.

The problem is that Motorcycling is not being taken seriously.

We sit around scratching our heads wondering why nothing is being achieved regarding the wire rope barrier and the ACC sagas. Hell, we can't even get the local councils to keep the roads we use in better condition.

Why? Because we make it so easy for the powers that be to view us as mere rabble.

[Drew]

Why do we need a political voice though? What is it that makes our voice more worthy because we ride?

The bitching about the rope barriers amounted to nothing in the end.

The ACC thing on registration is still in the works, though the proposed figures have been lowered I dont think they were ever gonna be set at $700 since people would just stop paying for it.

[T.W.R]

I want motorcycles to be accepted as a legitimate and normal form of transport and not some unnecessary form of fun and entertainment!

Motorcycles should also be treated equal to other road users and other road users should be made aware of their right to legitimately exist!

I believe we should be given this right regardless of anything else!

Our behaviour is always in need of improvement but that has nothing to do with the conditions of our basic rights to exist.

Once apon a time it was considered a legitimate & normal form of transport but sadly it was your generation and something you were part of that made it take a step backwards and deteriorate to being classed as a another form of fun and entertainment

Milkbar Cowboys & the era of Films like The Wild One (which portrayed actual events) started the rot to happen and it just snowballed from there.


The problem is that Motorcycling is not being taken seriously.

Why? Because we make it easy for the powers that be to view us as mere rabble.

Brilliant from someone who has and likes people to know as he thinks it's a status symbol a bike that was portrayed as the 1st real factory produced badboys toy :blink:

[davebullet]

The problem is that Motorcycling is not being taken seriously.

We sit around scratching our heads wondering why nothing is being achieved regarding the wire rope barrier and the ACC sagas. Hell, we can't even get the local councils to keep the roads we use in better condition.

Why? Because we make it so easy for the powers that be to view us as mere rabble.

Regarding the roads, why is it other countries (so I'm told) have billiard smooth roads? Not due to a Motorcycling political party? Money. Plain and simple. They have the size / GDP to invest in their infrastructure. NZ has a #8 wire, patch it up, she'll be right attitude. Our roads reflect that.

Batting on your side, I could see how if everyone became a motorcyclist, then the pressure for better roads, education etc... would be there. But only executable if there is the money to do so.

The problem with biking now, is that it would be like forming a political party for everyone with blue eyes. Bikers have nothing in common really - just a love of biking. Even then as this thread shows, for different reasons. Trying to get people to rally together, from all walks of life, for different reasons to form a political party when there isn't really serious oppression (eg. apartheid) isn't going to happen ever.

[Pixie]

Don't want to see it - but it will effectively be banned in NZ in 20 years

[davebullet]

Don't want to see it - but it will effectively be banned in NZ in 20 years

Which? Katman or Motorcycling? :rofl:

[peasea]

I'd like to have roads paved with marshmallows, with butterflies hovering overhead at every turn.
I'd like the sun to shine in my garage, where everyone can come and eat scones.
I'd like to swim in money, like Scrooge McDuck, and eat pancakes with diamond encrusted cutlery.
I'd like to have fleecy-lined underwear and drape my feet in bubble wrap.
I'd like to dip my toes in honey and spread the word of peace and love to all the world's needy people.


And shoot them in the face.

[Katman]

Don't want to see it - but it will effectively be banned in NZ in 20 years

And if that thought isn't enough to make people pull their heads out of their arses and start realising we have a problem on our hands, I don't know what is.

[Maha]

I wanna rock and roll all night and party every day.

[oldrider]

Once apon a time it was considered a legitimate & normal form of transport but sadly it was your generation and something you were part of that made it take a step backwards and deteriorate to being classed as a another form of fun and entertainment

Milkbar Cowboys & the era of Films like The Wild One (which portrayed actual events) started the rot to happen and it just snowballed from there.



Brilliant from someone who has and likes people to know as he thinks it's a status symbol a bike that was portrayed as the 1st real factory produced badboys toy :blink:

True!

I agree with that and it doesn't make me feel good but I partly blame "Hollywood", just as I believe Hollywood has a big part in the anti American/Western situation in the world today!

That said, there is no need for New Zealand to have the inbred anti motorcycle attitude that it has!

That attitude has been mainly conjured up by the constant bleating of people like Mike Noon and his AA cohorts.

It was people like them that coined the phrases, "temporary New Zealander" etc and projected them at every opportunity!

Our own behaviour confirmed the notion into the public attitude as well!

[Bass]

And if that thought isn't enough to make people pull their heads out of their arses and start realising we have a problem on our hands, I don't know what is.
I tend to agree with much of what you say, but I think you have a major problem with this one.
Motorcyclists are a very disparate group.
Getting them to act in unison is like trying to herd cats.
Just to make it harder, many of them don't give a shit about the rest and have no thought beyond today.
Whether you like it or not, you have set yourself up to take at least some of the lead in this and most of us understand that your motives are great.
However, your style is often abrasive and so if you want us all singing from the same page, then some days, you are your own worst enemy.
But then, I think you already knew that and really don't give a fuck, eh?

[schrodingers cat]

I think its always going to be difficult to achieve any sort of unified voice for motorcycling because deep within everyone of us lurks a little (sometimes more) chunk of 'fuck you'

We all ride for differing reasons and have different motivations. I suspect our DNA precludes us from riding on a bus for example.

Here in New Zealand we have effectively lost a generation to motorcycling. When I was a lad, you got a motorbike, road for a couple of years and saved to get a car. The really hard-core never botered about step 2 LOL. The introduction of Jap imports in the early 90's killed that. For 20 years now kids have stepped straight into cars.
They aren't bike aware because the've never experienced an asshole clench of seat material as someone blithly pulls out in front of them. They've never experienced the sheer joy of smelling freshly mown hay as they ride to their soul destroying job.
Those 15 year olds in 1990 are now 35 with kids and mortgages and in jobs where they make decisions about those who chose a different path. Of course there is no empathy.
I believe when they see us riding in the weekends they know we're having fun and they're not sharing it...

[Iggy]

And Katmans going to change the world......................yeah right!!!

[T.W.R]

True!

I agree with that and it doesn't make me feel good but I partly blame "Hollywood", just as I believe Hollywood has a big part in the anti American/Western situation in the world today!

That said, there is no need for New Zealand to have the inbred anti motorcycle attitude that it has!

That attitude has been mainly conjured up by the constant bleating of people like Mike Noon and his AA cohorts.

It was people like them that coined the phrases, "temporary New Zealander" etc and projected them at every opportunity!

Our own behaviour confirmed the notion into the public attitude as well!

Yeah but unfortunately it's a form of social conditioning from the powers that be that have emphasised the less than glorious side of motorcycling to the masses and the social degenerates latched on to that side of things and escalated the so-called anti motorcyclist attitude. Hollywood glorified the image of motorcycling/lists to be all one percenters by ways of shock entertainment portayal of badass motorcyclists

[Katman]

However, your style is often abrasive and so if you want us all singing from the same page, then some days, you are your own worst enemy.
But then, I think you already knew that and really don't give a fuck, eh?

I wouldn't have lasted a week on here if I was the sort to sugar-coat everything I said.

[Digitdion]

maybe the problem is the media holds too much weight around here and we should all be able to do/have what we want as long as it doesnt endanger anyone elses right to do/have what they want. Instead of the current system of the media turning every little thing into a big deal and then people feel empowered to whip up a political frenzy? there was a day where the media reported what was happening without the political view, now portions of society feed off it the media catch wind of it and report on that and so it grows. I thought politics were supposed to bring about what the people want in a civil manner not to tie us down...? thats IMO of course I think everything has its place, even politics theyve just forgotten where that place is... to better things for all!

Very intelligent reply. Toatlly agree!

[Digitdion]

The problem is that Motorcycling is not being taken seriously.

We sit around scratching our heads wondering why nothing is being achieved regarding the wire rope barrier and the ACC sagas. Hell, we can't even get the local councils to keep the roads we use in better condition.

Why? Because we make it so easy for the powers that be to view us as mere rabble.

Mate, use your brain. Its bloody simple. everything these days normally comes down to one thing. MONEY! They do not see us as a rabble, they see use as a minority. Theres a huge difference. To achieve your goal of world dominance by Motorcyclist, you only have to do one thing. Bloody simple, get every man, woman, and dog to buy a motorbike. ONLY then will we start to see change. A big snow ball effect.

[davebullet]

Mate, use your brain. Its bloody simple. everything these days normally comes down to one thing. MONEY! They do not see us as a rabble, they see use as a minority. Theres a huge difference. To achieve your goal of world dominance by Motorcyclist, you only have to do one thing. Bloody simple, get every man, woman, and dog to buy a motorbike. ONLY then will we start to see change. A big snow ball effect.

....But only if they generate the revenue which will garner the power. Cyndi was right.. Money changes everything!

[onearmedbandit]

Don't want to see it - but it will effectively be banned in NZ in 20 years

Got anything to back up a statement like that? Or do you just like making wild statements?

[NighthawkNZ]

Where do you want to see a Motorcycling heading?

Down the road bro.


bugger yah beat me to it... lol


Too true. A good objective would be to out politic the AA.

The only way that will happen is if BRONZ goes back to its roots of why it started in the first place, and if bikers started supporting it so that it can become a bikers version on AA or either that we start our own version MANZ (motorcycling Association of New Zealand or something) to do the roll of AA for all motorcyclists

[Digitdion]

Don't want to see it - but it will effectively be banned in NZ in 20 years

Yeah right! go grab a tui bro! Here's another way to think of motorcycling. If you are that way inclined.
motorcycling in like Alcohol and cigarettes. Why on earth would the govt ever ban then? they make so much money from them.Its all about social condition. They let the masses think they tax them to save us. But in reality, its all about the cash. Carbon Tax? of course its there to save the planet. My Arse, another so called valid excuse to increase revenue. Does this all sound familar? whats just started with motorcycling. ACC increases! Hopefully one day the masses will finally wake up to all this propaganda, and get the GOVT back to its core function. Will this ever happen? I doubt it as most of us can not be arsed.
Katy man wants us to unite as one big superforce, thus enabling us to conquer the polititons. He lables us in a certain way, and he is unhappy about our behaviour.
Katy man, its not just motorcyclist's who struggle to band together as a minority, its everyone in all walks of life.
Some may think the Muslim extremist's are on to something. They band together and fight for a cause! But where the hell will that get them? Blowing things up?People hate them even more because of this.
Perhaps all motorcyclist should band together and instead of riding to the Beehive, we ride INTO it. Like a mini 9/11 but with motorcycles.

[AD345]

At least this thread has made me think. Pretty unusual in KB land. A few years ago, shit, maybe even a few months ago I would have considered working to build some sort of national coherent voice for Motorcycling. (as an aside, Katman needs to back off a little from the protestations that some motorcyclists are in it more for the image than the experience. This entire thread is about improving - undefined - the image of motorcyling.)

The issue for me is that I don't care enough about what "they" might do.

The passage of new laws doesn't concern me. I'll evaluate them on a case by case basis and I figure that I'll probably do what I do now - ignore the ones I don't want to adhere to.

The realisation struck me this morning that, technically speaking,
My bike is illegal
My riding apparel is illegal
The way I ride is (sometimes) illegal
The way I park is illegal for Chrissakes

All of these things have been true since I first jumped on a bike just under 30 years ago.

I only care about my ride and my club - nothing else matters. Certainly not Motorcycling

[Katman]

I only care about my ride and my club - nothing else matters. Certainly not Motorcycling

Your ride and your club won't have a lot left to do if the government set about legislating us off the road.

[george formby]

I would like the experience of riding a motorcycle to be made far easier than it is now. Organised, safe " have a go " venue's. I have never met a person who did not love riding a bike after they have had a go.
It would also be in our favour if motorcyclists were at the forefront of road safety education, environmental awareness (traffic pollution) & easing congestion. Accentuating the positives of having more bikes on the road as effective, cheap transport rather than lifestyle toys or image statements.
I am not aware of any marketing campaign in any country by motorcycle manufacturers which specifically sells the low impact value of bikes. Economically I would like to see the manufacturers jump on this band wagon & collectively market this idea, much like the advertising for "green" cars.

[AD345]

Your ride and your club won't have a lot left to do if the government set about legislating us off the road.

You mean make more stuff illegal?

Gosh - whatever will I do?

[Bass]

I wouldn't have lasted a week on here if I was the sort to sugar-coat everything I said.

That's very true, but I wasn't suggesting that you should.
My point was that while shock tactics are sometimes very effective, that using nothing else eventually becomes counterproductive. The consequence is that you alienate potential supporters.
You have been quite open in that you claim to tell it as you see it - call a spade a spade if you will - but not everyone reacts well to being told that it's a fucking shovel.
The ability to read one's audience and adapt the delivery style to what you find, is a really useful skill in getting others to at least give your way a try. The problem is of course, that it smacks of politics and so may not be for you.

However, as I said, there is a huge variety of people that ride bikes and the sledgehammer won't work on all of them.

I am sure you realise that I am trying to equip you with another tool here, but then it's all just my opinion.

[onearmedbandit]

I understand there is an over representation of motorcyclists in road accidents, but other than this (which is concerning, don't get me wrong, but also bear in mind that a 20kmh accident on a bike can seriously harm or kill, whereas in a car it will fuck your bodywork - motorcycles are simply more dangerous than cars, doesn't mean that they are 'bad') what makes you believe the govt will legislate us off the road? Seriously. What indicators do you have? Is this happening overseas already? Will the manufacturers and the support industry not have anything to say? And why us? Are we that bad? What about alcohol issues? Smoking? Don't these have more bearing on the average kiwi?

[Woodman]

You know, I think that a lot of "motorcyclists" are caught up in their own world and sometimes forget that there is another whole world out there.
A lot of us ride bikes, but don't consider themselves to be "motorcyclists", just like rugby players are not neccesarily "rugby heads", they just like playing rugger on saturdays.

My opinion

[Digitdion]

You know, I think that a lot of "motorcyclists" are caught up in their own world and sometimes forget that there is another whole world out there.
A lot of us ride bikes, but don't consider themselves to be "motorcyclists", just like rugby players are not neccesarily "rugby heads", they just like playing rugger on saturdays.

My opinion
Well said young man!

[Bass]

I understand there is an over representation of motorcyclists in road accidents, but other than this (which is concerning, don't get me wrong, but also bear in mind that a 20kmh accident on a bike can seriously harm or kill, whereas in a car it will fuck your bodywork - motorcycles are simply more dangerous than cars, doesn't mean that they are 'bad') what makes you believe the govt will legislate us off the road? Seriously. What indicators do you have? Is this happening overseas already? Will the manufacturers and the support industry not have anything to say? And why us? Are we that bad? What about alcohol issues? Smoking? Don't these have more bearing on the average kiwi?

Government is largely about balancing the books and so, in many ways, ACC and the public health system are both our friend and our enemy. We cost the goverment an amount disproportionate to our numbers and voting power and that's fact, not opinion. It is true that so do other groups in our community e.g. cyclists, equestrians and rugby players. However, the way ACC was set up means that the government cannot do much about those other groups and still be the goverment for very long. They can do something about us though, and they are.
These circumstances don't apply e.g. in the States and so there is not the same pressure to act.
Alcohol and smoking affect much larger groups and so the goverment treads more softly, but even so, they have done quite a bit about smoking and are currently drawing a bead on alcohol.

[Katman]

Brilliant from someone who has and likes people to know as he thinks it's a status symbol a bike that was portrayed as the 1st real factory produced badboys toy :blink:

I'm intrigued to know how my choice of motorcycle has any bearing on what I've said here.

Perhaps you can enlighten me.

[Ender EnZed]

Me, I'd like to see Motorcycling entice the numbers to it's fold that it truly deserves.

I'd like to see the Old Guard accept the fact that an increase in motorcycling numbers is not going to affect their 'hard man' image.

I'd like to see new motorcyclists, who desire to one day be the Old Guard, accept that you'll only get there by surviving.

I'd like to see Motorcycling attract the numbers required to become a political force.

I'd like motorcyclists to realise that the only way that we have a chance of becoming a political force is by becoming an accepted part of society.

I'd like to see Motorcycling grow up.

I read the whole thread and I still don't understand what you're trying to achieve Katman.

Are you trying to convince me to think something? If so, what?

Are you trying to convince me to do something? If so, what?

[Katman]

Are you trying to convince me to think

Yes. <hgvhgvhjv>

[Paul in NZ]

I'm also kind of confused by this thread.

A motorcyclist is a person that has or rides a motorcycle. Nearly everyone owns a car or (say) a house and yet you could not realisitically expect every, or even the majority of drivers to agree on a direction or an issue. Sure - a subtribe may be convinced of something but not the whole group, they are simply too diverse.

Motorcycling is not a nation. Its a generic term and even if you could set up a representitive group the vast majority of sub tribes would complain that it does not represent their best interests and rebel against it. In fact a significant portion of motorcyclist would rebel against things that were in their best interests. Face it - most riders distrust, dislike and actively avoid others outside of their own groups and its getting more 'normal' to do so. (waving for example)

There is a significant group of people who ride just because it does annoy others - (the BAD HD boys n gurls, mean sprotbikers and the fuggin wankers don't think I can ride just because I'm a girl posse spring to mind. Nothing wrong with that - just accept it for what it is and don't elevate it to some kind of higher level of being, its not.

We all got here via different paths, we will all be staying here for various lengths of time and we certainly won't leave together - I can't see it changing!

[Katman]

We all got here via different paths, we will all be staying here for various lengths of time and we certainly won't leave together - I can't see it changing!

And the way I see it, from here motorcycling has a choice of two paths to take.

One will take motorcycling from strength to strength and encourage more motorcyclists, thereby providing us with a voice that will be listened to.

The other will continue taking us along the same downhill slope that we've been on for some time now.

[shrub]

And the way I see it, from here motorcycling has a choice of two paths to take.

One will take motorcycling from strength to strength and encourage more motorcyclists, thereby providing us with a voice that will be listened to.

The other will continue taking us along the same downhill slope that we've been on for some time now.

As a marketer, much of what I do is watch trends and look at the future, and motorcycling as we enjoy it does not have a particularly flash future.

Riding a motorcycle as a form of transport is illogical if you can afford the higher cost of driving a car, and as the developed world becomes richer less and less people need to ride bikes - remember in our youth we bought bikes because it was the cheapest way you could get a decent set of wheels - Triumph Bonneville vs Mk2 Zephyr in my case; one was quick and handled, the other was a Zephyr. Today's kids choice is a Hyosung 250 or a Nissan Skyline. My 19 year old rides a Street Triple, but if I hadn't introduced him to bikes he would not have been bitten by the bug and he would probably drive a Mitsubishi Evo or similar.

Sadly for our sport he is in the minority - he has no mates his age into bikes and when he goes for a ride it's with me and with my mates. We have lost the young generations to motorcycling, and even though lots are interested, very few are willing to spend the money to get a poxy 250 and grind their way up the ranks the way we did when they can go out and buy a supercar tomorrow. That means as we get older and hang up our helmets (and yes, it will happen) the number of bikes on the road will decrease.

[Dare]

And the way I see it, from here motorcycling has a choice of two paths to take.

One will take motorcycling from strength to strength and encourage more motorcyclists, thereby providing us with a voice that will be listened to.

The other will continue taking us along the same downhill slope that we've been on for some time now.
You want political clout? Start a religion! Brian Katman take us to the White-house!



Sadly for our sport he is in the minority - he has no mates his age into bikes and when he goes for a ride it's with me and with my mates.
It's growing quite rapidly in Auckland from what I've seen, what with the very limited options when it comes to A to B in the CBD.
But then I wasn't there in the 'golden age' being a mere whippersnapper, so would have no idea how it compares.

[Paul in NZ]

And the way I see it, from here motorcycling has a choice of two paths to take.

One will take motorcycling from strength to strength and encourage more motorcyclists, thereby providing us with a voice that will be listened to.

The other will continue taking us along the same downhill slope that we've been on for some time now.

Motorcyclings future is museums, gangs and scooters with a few stroppy women doing their own thing.

[peasea]

Don't want to see it - but it will effectively be banned in NZ in 20 years

"..........from my cold, dead hands."

[Headbanger]

As a marketer, much of what I do is watch trends and look at the future, and motorcycling as we enjoy it does not have a particularly flash future.

That means as we get older and hang up our helmets (and yes, it will happen) the number of bikes on the road will decrease.

Uh, aren't bike registrations at their highest level since 1980?

[peasea]

Year Registrations
1951 24779
1952 27469
1953 27634
1954 28627
1955 27031
1956 28588
1957 30145
1958 33531
1959 34093
1960 36377
1961 41689
1962 43084
1963 44159
1964 46743
1965 46362
1966 46201
1967 44989
1968 44480
1969 44364
1970 47144
1971 56441
1972 64706
1973 76674
1974 86779
1975 95730
1976 99412
1977 97956
1978 96781
1979 111798
1980 125701
1981 132730
1982 132963
1983 130407
1984 126357
1985 122756
1986 116892
1987 111985
1988 103648
1989 92945
1990 82437
1991 72676
1992 62748
1993 57493
1994 54799
1995 48917
1996 46000
1997 50040
1998 60458
1999 59390
2000 58566
2001 57836
2002 57454
2003 56047

Still looking for something more up to date.

[shrub]

Uh, aren't bike registrations at their highest level since 1980?

I don't have the stats to hand, but I know that 2007 was the highest number of registrations since the 1980s, but were a fraction of the number of registrations of the 70s, and followed on from many years of very low numbers of registrations. The majority of bikes purchased over the last few years have been big and expensive bikes and have been a result of the economic boom times we all enjoyed over the last 6 or 7 years, and a major influence on motorcycle registrations have been the born agains. Only problem is that unlike complete newbies, born agains are a finite market.

[peasea]

http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/motor-vehicle-registration-statistics/docs/2008.pdf

It looks like the motorcycle industry is in pain.

[shrub]

Thanks. You also need to consider the number of registrations relative to population and to car registrations.

[Headbanger]

http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/motor-vehicle-registration-statistics/docs/2008.pdf

It looks like the motorcycle industry is in pain.

table 37, I assume is a tally of all currently registered bikes rather then new registered in 2008.

Total bikes 106411 and 30000 mopeds.

I wonder whose got their bike running on cng?

[Katman]

These days it's common for motorcyclists to own more than one bike.

[peasea]

table 37, I assume is a tally of all currently registered bikes rather then new registered in 2008.

Total bikes 106411 and 30000 mopeds.

I wonder whose got their bike running on cng?

Haha, missed that.
And 30 'other'. Wonder who's running on chicken shit?

There's even a moped on cng, but where can you get cng these days?

[Woodman]

Sadly for our sport he is in the minority -

Something that bugs me here..... motorcycling IMHO is not a sport.
If you are racing a motorcycle in a proper race or trials competition, then it is a sport, otherwise it is a pastime or leisure activity or an interest, not a sport.
Sport has winners and losers.
Again...My opinion.

[peasea]

These days it's common for motorcyclists to own more than one bike.

Or, conversely, none, legally speaking.

[peasea]

Something that bugs me here..... motorcycling IMHO is not a sport.
If you are racing a motorcycle in a proper race or trials competition, then it is a sport, otherwise it is a pastime or leisure activity or an interest, not a sport.
Sport has winners and losers.
Again...My opinion.

It's a mode of transport as well as a leisure activity. I ride to work nearly every day.

[shrub]

Something that bugs me here..... motorcycling IMHO is not a sport. .

Good call, I stand corrected. Sadly for our hobby/lifestyle/preferred mode of transport/religion he is in the minority.

[Woodman]

Good call, I stand corrected. Sadly for our hobby/lifestyle/preferred mode of transport/religion he is in the minority.

yea well maybe we should call it a sport to save typing time.

[Berries]

And the way I see it, from here motorcycling has a choice of two paths to take.

One will take motorcycling from strength to strength and encourage more motorcyclists, thereby providing us with a voice that will be listened to.

The other will continue taking us along the same downhill slope that we've been on for some time now.

Encouraging more motorcyclists may not have the immediate effects you are after. To begin with a rising number of motorbikes will mean a rising number of injured riders - you can't deny that it is an inherently unsafe mode of transport for a variety of reasons. Hypothetically, the number would at some point reach a critical mass where car drivers would be expecting bikes everywhere they see, and the number of car vs bike crashes would go down, but the number of single bike incidents would be proportional to the number of bikes. So more bikes, more crashes, more pressure from Wellington. That may be the fastest way to hurry up the demise of biking. Hypothetically speaking that is.


It's a mode of transport as well as a leisure activity. I ride to work nearly every day.
Pissed me off when a speaker at the Dunedin ACC rally was quoted as saying it was a recreational activity as well. Maybe it is that now for a large number, but if we want it considered as a legitimate mode of transport (which personally I think it is) we need to steer it away from being viewed as a recreational and leisure pursuit otherwise it won't be taken seriously.

[Katman]

To begin with a rising number of motorbikes will mean a rising number of injured riders

Sorry, did I forget to mention that I'd also like to see motorcyclists stop riding in a manner that makes them an accident waiting to happen?

[Berries]

I'd like to go to the moon but that ain't going to happen either.

[T.W.R]

I'm intrigued to know how my choice of motorcycle has any bearing on what I've said here.

Perhaps you can enlighten me.

You seem to keep going on about the image & attitude portrayed by motorcyclists in general as a bad image to the general population, yet your beloved old tank was the first mainstream bike from Japan to set the head down arse up generation of go-fast idiots upon the motoring public :niceone:
Even the Totally Wired piece could be related to a delightful movie about the demise of John Belushi "Wired" & the Cocaine + Heroin cocktail that killed him

[Katman]

You seem to keep going on about the image & attitude portrayed by motorcyclists in general as a bad image to the general population, yet your beloved old tank was the first mainstream bike from Japan to set the head down arse up generation of go-fast idiots upon the motoring public :niceone:
Even the Totally Wired piece could be related to a delightful movie about the demise of John Belushi "Wired" & the Cocaine + Heroin cocktail that killed him

And the GSXR1000 is the modern day equivalent but I don't recall ever saying "don't ever buy a GSXR1000 because they portray a bad image".

(And the Totally Wired thing is actually a song by The Fall. Yes, still drug related but hey, I'm clean officer).:innocent:

[T.W.R]

And the GSXR1000 is the modern day equivalent

No it isn't :slap: It's just the current incarnation of something that happened 24yrs ago :msn-wink: evolution old fella

[Grahameeboy]

How are you going to become rational KT??

[Katman]

How are you going to become rational KT??

Sedatives.

[Hitcher]

We need to become rational.

I disagree. I love us just the way we are.

[Katman]

I disagree. I love us just the way we are.

Yes, but shits and giggles are one thing - having grievances listened to sympathetically is a whole different kettle of fish.

[Hitcher]

Yes, but shits and giggles are one thing - having grievances listened to sympathetically is a whole different kettle of fish.

"We" had our chance to get "our" shit together with the ACC saga. "We" blew that big time. The ACC played "us" like a Stradivarius.

If bikers wanted to get "political" they'd join Bronz, Wima or Ulysses. Some do. Most don't. Why? What's the value proposition, other than having an organised ride every week/month and getting to wear a fluoro vest?

Has the paid up membership of biker groups increased since the ACC rallies? If yes, will that endure beyond the first year?

"Bikers" are a pretty disparate bunch who ride different things in different ways for different reasons. There will be few issues (such as ACC levy increases) that come along that have the potential to galvanise this community.

Meanwhile, most of us just want to go and ride our bikes like we did today. It was great too!

[Katman]

So you're happy to see motorcycling continue it's downward slide?

[Paul in NZ]

So you're happy to see motorcycling continue it's downward slide?

I think what Mr Hitcher (how are you old chap btw) means is that some people would consider membership of some kind of progressive motorcycle organisation to be the end of motorcycling anyway.

A great many 'personal' freedoms are being eroded in this day an age - some because we as a species cannot contain (or restrain) ourselves.

[Katman]

Probably one of the biggest problems within motorcycling is that not enough of the motorcyclists who ride with a brain inside their helmets are standing up and telling the fuckwits on bikes to pull their heads in and stop fucking things up for the rest of us.

[Woodman]

katman, Without trying to wind you up, I think a lot of us just wanna go for a ride on our bikes occaisonally.
We have enough issues to deal with in the course of our normal lives and going for a ride is a bloody good way of forgetting them for a few hours or so.
I personally do not want to overthink motorcycling and conjure up issues, that would take the pleasure I get from it away.

[oldrider]

So you're happy to see motorcycling continue it's downward slide?


Probably one of the biggest problems within motorcycling is that not enough of the motorcyclists who ride with a brain inside their helmets are standing up and telling the fuckwits on bikes to pull their heads in and stop fucking things up for the rest of us.

I think most of us get your point but I am not so sure that many of us believe it to be as big a contributor as you do!

I do believe however, that if you got your wish and everybody complied as you recommend, then it would definitely help to improve our image!

By how much is a mute point, personally I don't think very many of your target audience would even notice the difference! :oi-grr:

Sad but true IMHO. :mellow:

[Smifffy]

Probably one of the biggest problems within motorcycling is that not enough of the motorcyclists who ride with a brain inside their helmets are standing up and telling the fuckwits on bikes to pull their heads in and stop fucking things up for the rest of us.

Do you have a recent example of a fuckwit on a bike fucking things up for you?

[Katman]

The fact is that motorcyclists (and therefore motorcycling) are becoming seen, in the eyes of the general public, to be no better than a two wheeled version of boy racers.

We will continue to see public support decline and government intervention increase if we sit back and do nothing.

[Hitcher]

The fact is that motorcyclists (and therefore motorcycling) are becoming seen, in the eyes of the general public, to be no better than a two wheeled version of boy racers.

We will continue to see public support decline and government intervention increase if we sit back and do nothing.

"They" will judge "us" by our deeds rather than by our words. And life is too short to run after the Purveyors of Evil(TM) making outraged tut tuttings. Kharma is a bitch that way at times.

People who live in glass houses should know better than to throw stones.

[Berries]

The fact is that motorcyclists (and therefore motorcycling) are becoming seen, in the eyes of the general public, to be no better than a two wheeled version of boy racers.
I still don't understand where you get that view from. There is, always has been, and always will be, an element who treat the road like a racetrack (TM). Nothing you say or do on here or in real life will change that. From where I sit I see more people getting in to bikes for reasons such as easier parking, better fuel economy, congestion issues and other stuff that means they are unlikely to be the type of people who are going to have a ZZGSXR1 and contribute to the boy racer image that you believe in.

I also don't understand your comment about motorcycling continuing "it's downward slide". Maybe I have blinkers on, but I don't see it.

[Herman Jelmet]

I'd like to see more foul language and debauchery

[Katman]

Do you have a recent example of a fuckwit on a bike fucking things up for you?

Further to my PM to you giving an example that affects me personally, another couple spring to mind.

Those who can't lane split without taking off cars wing mirrors or those who have an accident while lane splitting and then try pinning the blame on everyone but themselves are taking us down the path where one day NZTA, the police, or the government will simply turn around and say categorically that lane splitting is illegal.

Those who see no problem in carving up a car mid-corner simply because the "fucking cager was spoiling my lines" are creating a large number of car drivers who will be only too happy to see us come to grief (and even worse, producing a number of drivers who may well happily contribute to the demise of the next motorcyclist that comes their way).

[oldrider]

Religious quotes are probably a bit naff to the majority these days but the old:

"do unto others as you would have others do unto you" is probably a good fit here!

Treat other road users as you would have other road users treat you as motorcyclists! :mellow:

If we make other road users our "friends", maybe they will want to see us, even look for us! (that would be nice) :yes:

Too easy though eh! :rolleyes:

[mashman]

Religious quotes are probably a bit naff to the majority these days but the old:

"do unto others as you would have others do unto you" is probably a good fit here!

Treat other road users as you would have other road users treat you as motorcyclists! :mellow:

If we make other road users our "friends", maybe they will want to see us, even look for us! (that would be a nice) :yes:

Too easy though eh! :rolleyes:

it's the only way it'll... they may even want to join us...

[Conquiztador]

Another angle on that old crusade of yours I see. The ONLY thing "we" have in common is that "we" all ride bikes. And there it stops.

When the rules are tightened for bikers, I break more of them.
When the petrol becomes more expensive I still ride. There will be more space on the roads.
When a idiot in a cage does something stupid I give them the finger.

I don't ride to fit in.
I don't ride to make a statement.
I don't ride to change the world.

I only ride for me.

[Katman]

Another angle on that old crusade of yours I see. The ONLY thing "we" have in common is that "we" all ride bikes. And there it stops.

When the rules are tightened for bikers, I break more of them.
When the petrol becomes more expensive I still ride. There will be more space on the roads.
When a idiot in a cage does something stupid I give them the finger.

I don't ride to fit in.
I don't ride to make a statement.
I don't ride to change the world.

I only ride for me.

Do you care whether the irresponsible actions of other motorcyclists will one day impinge upon (or even remove entirely) those motorcycling liberties you're so fond of?

I do.

[onearmedbandit]

Probably one of the biggest problems within motorcycling is that not enough of the motorcyclists who ride with a brain inside their helmets are standing up and telling the fuckwits on bikes to pull their heads in and stop fucking things up for the rest of us.

Are there really that many fuckwit riders out there? I ride most days out on the open road on a well trodden motorcycling route and in the past few months I've seen many bikes, from GN250's to cruisers to Rossi rep R1's, and none of them have acted in a way to offend the general public. I'm not saying they aren't out there, but they are not as visible as 'boi racers',in other words in my opinion they are in the minority. It's not really a question of 'can we weed out the fuckwits on motorcycles' but rather 'can we weed the fuckwits out of life'. Which, unfortunately we can't.


The fact is that motorcyclists (and therefore motorcycling) are becoming seen, in the eyes of the general public, to be no better than a two wheeled version of boy racers.



I disagree with this as a general statement. Why just the other day I was parked in town outside the Arts Centre, 'twas a beautiful day, lots of mothers out walking their young children. After watching my 3yr old daughter at ballet I went back to my bike, sat down on a seat about 5 metres away, and watched as mother after mother pointed out the 'nice motorcycle' to their children. When I got up to leave a couple of mothers got their children to watch me, I waved at them, they waved back with big smiles, everyone was happy. No matter where I go, I have people of all ages/backgrounds/etc approach me and talk to me because I'm on a bike, they ask questions, share stories, even the people I only passed 5 minutes ago. I think your perception of the 'image' of motorcycling is a little out of adjustment, as we, in the eyes of the general public, are no where near the level that 'boi racers' are placed.

[Brian d marge]

I would like to see more education

especially as more ordinary people are moving towards scooter ( electric ones are cheap to run and probably when they are more widely available , soon, you will see more riding them

These people aren't as tuned into the perils of a scooter or bike

Speaking of electric , Hell yes , or diesel

When the price of gas touches 3 dollars a litre !!!

Stephen

[oldrider]

I would like to see more education

especially as more ordinary people are moving towards scooter ( electric ones are cheap to run and probably when they are more widely available , soon, you will see more riding them

These people aren't as tuned into the perils of a scooter or bike

Speaking of electric , Hell yes , or diesel

When the price of gas touches 3 dollars a litre !!!

Stephen

Does this light your fire Stephen? http://www.advancedeco.co.nz/lifebatt.html Have a look at the video's.

[Brian d marge]

Does this light your fire Stephen? http://www.advancedeco.co.nz/lifebatt.html Have a look at the video's.

Very much

Thanks for that

I am just running out of peasants to keep the Nuclear fire a burning

Stephen

[Swoop]

The example given earlier was that of the NRA in the US - they used to have a slogan stating something like X number of people hunt, shoot and VOTE
You will find that was a slogan of the NZ sporting shooters association.

[McWild]

I disagree with this as a general statement. Why just the other day I was parked in town outside the Arts Centre, 'twas a beautiful day, lots of mothers out walking their young children. After watching my 3yr old daughter at ballet I went back to my bike, sat down on a seat about 5 metres away, and watched as mother after mother pointed out the 'nice motorcycle' to their children. When I got up to leave a couple of mothers got their children to watch me, I waved at them, they waved back with big smiles, everyone was happy. No matter where I go, I have people of all ages/backgrounds/etc approach me and talk to me because I'm on a bike, they ask questions, share stories, even the people I only passed 5 minutes ago. I think your perception of the 'image' of motorcycling is a little out of adjustment, as we, in the eyes of the general public, are no where near the level that 'boi racers' are placed.

I very much agree with this.

I have only experienced positive reactions from the public when out and about on the bike, and as said have often have people talk to me because I'm on a bike.

I'm a young guy, and I highly, highly doubt that I would get the same positive reactions if I were to pull up somewhere and get out of a shitbox with the body scraping the ground and an exhaust big enough to put my arm in.

[Katman]

I very much agree with this.

I have only experienced positive reactions from the public when out and about on the bike, and as said have often have people talk to me because I'm on a bike.

I'm a young guy, and I highly, highly doubt that I would get the same positive reactions if I were to pull up somewhere and get out of a shitbox with the body scraping the ground and an exhaust big enough to put my arm in.

Don't worry, the Akaroa GP and Coro GP seasons will roll back around soon enough.

[avgas]

I want what the japanese adds in the 80's promised me.
I want KBTTL, I want VVVVVVVVTTTTTTTTTTTT, I want SRAM and I want Lasers shooting out of my bike

[onearmedbandit]

Don't worry, the Akaroa GP and Coro GP seasons will roll back around soon enough.

Now I certainly won't argue the rep of those two roads, although I've only ridden one of them. And yes sure enough there are many cases of riders acting like they own the road, to the point that I can't be arsed with the Akaroa ride any longer, too easy to be tarred with the same brush. However, these are but two of the many many roads we have in NZ that are great for riding, a lot of them very popular but don't share the same rep as those two. And nor do the riders.

[Pedrostt500]

I ride for my own personal satisfaction, I Would like to see the numbers of regular riders increase, I dont care what they ride, or wich organisation or club they belong to, or if they just like to rid on their own.
I think it would be good to see motorcyclist numbers at least double if not trebble in the next 10 years, there are alot of benifits with a larger riding population, and some negatives.
Education needs to hold presidence over regulation, if every road riding club and orgaisation got behind the education of new and long time returning riders, this would be far better than a disinterested group like the AA taking on the mantel of rider education.

[rwh]

I agree with OAB that I don't see much negativity towards me as a biker.

I wonder though whether things like the ACC and cheesecutter campaigns, while seen as positive by many, might also be seen by others as whinging by people who choose to ride dangerous machines and complain when they get hurt.

My thought is to start an organisation that isn't seen as just a political effort like BRONZ, but a more all-encompassing group like the AA. Roadside rescue services, with smiling uniformed mechanics with glinting Vince Martyn teeth. Similar types of people running riding schools, from a large organisation that parents can't help but trust their kids with (no offence to all the existing well-run and professional riding schools - but I don't see them day to day). Obviously that would cost a lot of money, and couldn't be started in that state from day one, but could hopefully be developed from, say, a nationwide network of contracted garages, the way the AA operates out of the main centres. It could probably be helped along by a bunch of contributing dealers, since it should help all of them with sales.

But hey, maybe I'm talking rubbish. And I'm probably going to sell up soon and go back to the bus anyway :-(

Richard

[oldrider]

I agree with OAB that I don't see much negativity towards me as a biker.

I wonder though whether things like the ACC and cheesecutter campaigns, while seen as positive by many, might also be seen by others as whinging by people who choose to ride dangerous machines and complain when they get hurt.

My thought is to start an organisation that isn't seen as just a political effort like BRONZ, but a more all-encompassing group like the AA. Roadside rescue services, with smiling uniformed mechanics with glinting Vince Martyn teeth. Similar types of people running riding schools, from a large organisation that parents can't help but trust their kids with (no offence to all the existing well-run and professional riding schools - but I don't see them day to day). Obviously that would cost a lot of money, and couldn't be started in that state from day one, but could hopefully be developed from, say, a nationwide network of contracted garages, the way the AA operates out of the main centres. It could probably be helped along by a bunch of contributing dealers, since it should help all of them with sales.

But hey, maybe I'm talking rubbish. And I'm probably going to sell up soon and go back to the bus anyway :-(

Richard

Nothing wrong with your reasoning but

Why not join up with the established organisations and help mould them into the one size fits all organisation that you want. (and maybe what we need)

Otherwise all you end up with a whole lot more fractious groups pulling at their own strings to the benefit of nobody. I.E. the status quo!

Admittedly, the AA should be able do it but hey, they "are" the enemy! Maybe you are correct! :shifty:

[Katman]

Coming up on the news is an article on the possibility that the government could eventually impose a total ban on smoking.

You'd have to be pretty stupid to think that they couldn't possibly consider doing the same to motorcycling.

[Smifffy]

You will find that was a slogan of the NZ sporting shooters association.

Thanks. Do you know if they ever got the kind of political clout they were after?

[Berries]

Coming up on the news is an article on the possibility that the government could eventually impose a total ban on smoking.

You'd have to be pretty stupid to think that they couldn't possibly consider doing the same to motorcycling.
That is some serious lateral thinking alright. People don't die of passive motorcycling - unless you call them pillions. I don't know what the stats are for smokers, but I bet many of them die of smoking related illnesses, or illnesses compounded by their smoking. Now if most riders died of motorcycling related injuries then I believe the things would have been banned years ago. They don't, I bet more riders die of smoking related illnesses.

[Katman]

Did you ever think the government would step in and say you're not allowed to smack your child?

[Bald Eagle]

. And I'm probably going to sell up soon and go back to the bus anyway :-(



That would be a shame

[Katman]

That would be a shame

Indeed.

We need every sensible motorcyclist counted amongst our numbers at the moment.

[98tls]

Indeed.

We need every sensible motorcyclist counted amongst our numbers at the moment.

Problem there fella is the supposed sensible motorcyclists hide behind a veil of "poker runs for worthy causes wearing born again goatees pretending to be the heart of all things motorcycling shaking there heads at the actions of the "other kind of riders" .Once that lot has given it away methinks public perception may well start to change.From my experiance there the loudest to rant on re ACC/accidents blah blah blah but when they decide to don the leathers and wheel the barge outta the garage there the first to attempt to ride like Foggy causing no end of carnage,worse still influencing others.

[peasea]

Problem there fella is the supposed sensible motorcyclists hide behind a veil of "poker runs for worthy causes wearing born again goatees pretending to be the heart of all things motorcycling shaking there heads at the actions of the "other kind of riders" .Once that lot has given it away methinks public perception may well start to change.From my experiance there the loudest to rant on re ACC/accidents blah blah blah but when they decide to don the leathers and wheel the barge outta the garage there the first to attempt to ride like Foggy causing no end of carnage,worse still influencing others.

Fuckin sportsbike riders..................

[peasea]

Coming up on the news is an article on the possibility that the government could eventually impose a total ban on smoking.

You'd have to be pretty stupid to think that they couldn't possibly consider doing the same to motorcycling.

I think I could sing "Advance Australia Fair" convincingly.

[98tls]

Fuckin sportsbike riders.................. :shifty:Amen,on said poker run there i am bored though somewhat content knowing my boredom is for a worthy cause when in the distance i hear what cant be anything but a Sporty at max rpm approaching,a look in the mirror saw my theory true and fearing being made headless by an escaping piston i buttoned off,sadly said Sporty had reached its peak at the same moment a cage came over the oncoming mound in the road and for just a moment i had the pleasure of watching a man and his booze hag preparing for the afterlife,much like there lives to date they did absolutly nothing except attempt to expel there eyeballs from there place of natural residence so i was forced to make room in order for the guy to swerve my way,that itself almost resulted in his end and the resulting view from behind when he hit the gravel was pretty exciting for all concerned.

[peasea]

:shifty:Amen,on said poker run there i am bored though somewhat content knowing my boredom is for a worthy cause when in the distance i hear what cant be anything but a Sporty at max rpm approaching,a look in the mirror saw my theory true and fearing being made headless by an escaping piston i buttoned off,sadly said Sporty had reached its peak at the same moment a cage came over the oncoming mound in the road and for just a moment i had the pleasure of watching a man and his booze hag preparing for the afterlife,much like there lives to date they did absolutly nothing except attempt to expel there eyeballs from there place of natural residence so i was forced to make room in order for the guy to swerve my way,that itself almost resulted in his end and the resulting view from behind when he hit the gravel was pretty exciting for all concerned.

Where was this poker run?

[98tls]

Where was this poker run?

Started at the Galleon pub in Oamaru,headed out on the coast road to Maheno pub then inland to Duntroon pub blah blah blah.You on the Sporty?:shifty:

[peasea]

Started at the Galleon pub in Oamaru,headed out on the coast road to Maheno pub then inland to Duntroon pub blah blah blah.You on the Sporty?:shifty:

I don't think so, wash your keyboard out with soap. Nah, just curious. Hey ya get dickwads wherever you go. Was at a pissup Saturday and this guy was ranting about how fast he rides his Duke. Whatever..... Anyway, he pulls out his phone and shows us a pic of his near-off. He'd come round a corner too fast and gone on the wrong side of the l/h armco. Knob; why would you boast about shit like that, let alone take pics of the bike many metres up the wrong side of an armco? (And show them at a party ffs!) Got me fucked.

[rwh]

Nothing wrong with your reasoning but

Why not join up with the established organisations and help mould them into the one size fits all organisation that you want. (and maybe what we need)

The established organisations have their history, and BRONZ is by definition a Rights Organisation.

Also note that I'm not really considering stepping up to start such an organisation myself. Call me lazy if you want, but I don't think I'm the right man for the job.




Otherwise all you end up with a whole lot more fractious groups pulling at their own strings to the benefit of nobody. I.E. the status quo!

That is certainly unfortunate.


Admittedly, the AA should be able do it but hey, they "are" the enemy! Maybe you are correct! :shifty:

They can never be "Those nice motorcycle people", again by definition and history.

Richard

[Swoop]

Thanks. Do you know if they ever got the kind of political clout they were after?
Not really enough to make a difference with the main political parties. They did back Act, since they actually thought out a sensible policy. Tactical voting and all that...

[98tls]

I don't think so, wash your keyboard out with soap. Nah, just curious. Hey ya get dickwads wherever you go. Was at a pissup Saturday and this guy was ranting about how fast he rides his Duke. Whatever..... Anyway, he pulls out his phone and shows us a pic of his near-off. He'd come round a corner too fast and gone on the wrong side of the l/h armco. Knob; why would you boast about shit like that, let alone take pics of the bike many metres up the wrong side of an armco? (And show them at a party ffs!) Got me fucked.

Yea mate,taking the piss.For my money motorcyclings gone to hell compared to back when blah blah,interweb sites do little more than show how bad its got for my money,knowing full well the response the other day i posted up a thread re a guy on another forum i spend shitloads of time on building and mounting a Super charger on a Vtwin from scratch in his shed,i and a few others had a wager on the interest in such a thing which i won easily,far to busy with waving/which helmet/does this Ducati make me look good/my mother hated me so i hate cops/leg humping every new poster that sounds female blah blah blah to be bothered with anything remotely motorcycling i said to be interested in such things.

[Katman]

The established organisations have their history, and BRONZ is by definition a Rights Organisation.



And that is my major stumbling block with BRONZ.

I believe that 'rights' are something that you earn.

[rwh]

I've done some more thinking since last night.

Katman, you're a dealer, right?

I think that dealers probably have more opportunity to influence the situation than anybody else.

You can target your marketing and product range at the kind of people you want to see on motorcycles, and you can also help steer them in what you consider to be a sensible direction.

You probably already cut deals for people who want to buy all their gear with their first bike; do you or could also bundle in riding lessons with your favourite local riding school? You could do it especially for scooter buyers, who probably wouldn't go for lessons otherwise. Point out that once they've done their lessons, it's a small step to getting their BHS, and not much more to get a bike licence. Then you might suggest to them, or their parents, that actually a proper bike might actually be safer than a scooter - especially since it comes with the requirement for a regular safety inspection.

Then for more advanced riders, perhaps do the same thing with advanced training sessions, whether at the track or on the road.

Even better, this should all fit in nicely with improving your own sales :)

Richard

[Katman]

Katman, you're a dealer, right?



No, not a dealer - I have a repair workshop.

But I still do what I can.

[98tls]

Thats wonderful Richard,perhaps he might offer to look after there cat whilst there away riding as well eh.

[Katman]

Thats wonderful Richard,perhaps he might offer to look after there cat whilst there away riding as well eh.

I love cats but very rarely eat a whole one.

[rwh]

No, not a dealer - I have a repair workshop.

But I still do what I can.

Ah well - substitute 'you' with 'they' then - though probably all in the trade have similar opportunities.

98tls: that would indeed be nice of him, but not really the point I was making. I was aiming for deals that help improve motorcyclists, rather than just make them happy.

Richard

[98tls]

I love cats but very rarely eat a whole one.

A Kat however would be a totally different story.

[98tls]

Ah well - substitute 'you' with 'they' then - though probably all in the trade have similar opportunities.

98tls: that would indeed be nice of him, but not really the point I was making. I was aiming for deals that help improve motorcyclists, rather than just make them happy.

Richard

Motorcyclists being human would moan no matter what deal they got,more so on the interweb.