Some ideas for VMCC?

[CHOPPA]

I have some ideas for vic club that may help them through the winter series but probably wont because im just a rider and i dont actually have a clue how to run a meeting nore would I like to try. Cause then id have to deal with wankers like me hahahaha.

BTW you guys do a bloody good job as it is trying to deal with crashes, injurys, oil spills and a couple of hundred bike riders in several classes! So this is merely a few suggestions that might be good to think about or just kick to the curb but I know that you all read KB, it should create positive discussion and I wouldnt really know who would be best to send it to.

1, To try make the times in the program run closer maybe you could have 2 dedicated pick up sessions of 15 mins per round of racing. If there is an abulance or oil spill you could move the pick up session to cater for the ambo etc. If there is two pick up sessions per round then the max a rider will have to wait is 3 races. Between the rider and the marshals they should be able to get the bike to a safe place. If no bikes crash then dont stop for the pick up session and thats 15 mins saved

2. There is plenty of time between racing for the riders etc to have lunch so I would imagine that the lunch break is mainly for the marshals etc. Would it be possible to have rostered lunch sessions so the racing could proceed? I guess your prob short staffed as it is so this might be hard but its just an idea

3. Maybe look at running the races like MX where you give each class 12mins plus 1 lap. Either that or cut down the classes like streetstock etc to run fewer laps as they take twice as long as F1 to do a lap this effectively doubles there track time


4. Some classes are made up of a lot of bikes that are eligible to cross enter not all so your never going to keep everyone happy but I think its fair that the classes that are not eligible for cross entry like clubmans sidecars F1 and streetstock etc there races should be closer to the start of the program so if the day is running late they are less likely to be getting bumped. In the meeting yesterday the majority of the F2 bikes were going out for there 5th race of the day when the F1 bikes didnt even get 3

A suggested race order

Sidecars
clubmens
F1
F3
Streetstock
F2
Postclassics

Most postclassic bike can cross enter into F1 F2 or F3
F2 can cross enter into F1
And F3 and cross enter into F2 so even if the racing is running really late most of those guys will still get more racing then anyone else plus they will have atleast 1 race between

Like I said this is just a bit of constructive critisism, im really thankful for all the time you guys put in and if anyone else is commenting on this thread please keep the discussion positive cause if i was doing something for free and getting shit about it I wouldnt take it very well either....

[Str8 Jacket]

I
3. Maybe look at running the races like MX where you give each class 12mins plus 1 lap. Either that or cut down the classes like streetstock etc to run fewer laps as they take twice as long as F1 to do a lap this effectively doubles there track time


4. Some classes are made up of a lot of bikes that are eligible to cross enter not all so your never going to keep everyone happy but I think its fair that the classes that are not eligible for cross entry like clubmans sidecars F1 and streetstock etc there races should be closer to the start of the program so if the day is running late they are less likely to be getting bumped. In the meeting yesterday the majority of the F2 bikes were going out for there 5th race of the day when the F1 bikes didnt even get 3



You do realise that for the past 3 years us streetstockers are dropped from from every round that they have run out of time for. We don't pay any less than anyone else and for some reason we have very healthy grids despite this.

What would really help VMCC is NO late entries and perfect weather every round.... Maybe if we cut F1 & F2 we would have less major crashes, just an idea....

Anyway, I am very very grateful for Vic Club and all volunteers for the massive effort they put in every year. Thanks guy's!

[roadracingoldfart]

Nah .... the classes that cause the holdups dont get another session , that will make emm ride sensibly

[quickbuck]

Choppa,
Glad to see you have put your thinking cap on... a little crooked, but all feedback is considered.

Now, i may be speaking out of school a little here.... But here goes.

The idea of a Pick Up session is a good one, however there may well be a few disgruntled riders who have cross entered and need to get their bike back asap to fix it for their next class...
I know it would have destroyed Neils Championships last year when he had a Crash in Race 1 of F3 at round 3 (I think it was) and we needed to get him in ASAP to fix the bike....
He went on to win every other race that day...

If the Pick-up crew said "Stiff Bickies", then there would have been more than a couple of tools flying around the pit garage. As the incident would have penalised him for two championships, not the one.
Yes, just one example from a racer...... There are surely others.

I always ask the rider if they are sweet to stay out if the Crash Crew can't get out on time. Most are sweet with it.
If not, we try our best....

As for Ambulances on the track... They will take their good sweet time.
As a rider who received a severe lower limb injury and blocked the main intersection of SH1 and 3 at 7 pm in the evening, i couldn't give a Fat Rats about the amount of traffic i was preventing from moving...
All I wanted to be was comfortable before we went anywhere.

Same deal for the poor rider who got run over by another bike..... Also the guy who fell coming out of Higgins.....
The second priority is ensure the patient is comfortable.... First being Safety of the Aid...... BUT the patient MUST be stable before the Ambulance drives off.

One of the last priorities is actually getting the racing started again.... I know the racers want that to be first, unless they are the ones in the back of the Ambulance!

Rostered Lunch Sessions wouldn't work, as we would need double the crew..... OR else there would be Marshalls coming in and going out for about 2.5 hours while they all get a feed.

[quickbuck]

Nah .... the classes that cause the holdups dont get another session , that will make emm ride sensibly

Who else can see the Oxymoron in this statement ;)

[Racey Rider]

What about if a group of riders or support team was asked for at briefing, who would be willing to flag marshall the lunch break period, (thus giving the marshalls out on track time to get in to the toilets etc). This would help to keep the day flowing.
Obvisily if those "rider - lunch time flaggies" had unexpected issues with their bike they were sorting they wouldn't be expected to give time flagging.
But if a suitable number were forthcoming at briefing, then 75% of them might be expected to truly be avaliable at lunch time. and the show might go on.

Racey

[quickbuck]

What about if a group of riders or support team was asked for at briefing, who would be willing to flag marshall the lunch break period, (thus giving the marshalls out on track time to get in to the toilets etc). This would help to keep the day flowing.
Obvisily if those "rider lunch time flaggies" had unexpected issues with their bike they were sorting they wouldn't be expected to give time flagging.
But if a suitable number were forthcoming at briefing, then 75% of them might be expected to truly be avaliable at lunch time. and the show might go on.

Racey
You have good intentions,
However, Flag Marshelling is more than just picking up a flag and waving it at random times.

The crew we have on the post have built up their EXPERIENCE over many seasons of racing....
It isn't something that is done after half an hour brief....

It was once, and the short falls are obvious to the riders....

As for a Rider of the Super Quad.... Anybody want a go so I can have a break, then please come forward........ Actually, No! I have as much fun out there as some of the racers...

So next time I will just take my lunch with me, and do some Demo Laps in the Lunch break to entertain the crowd :)

[yungatart]

You have good intentions,
However, Flag Marshelling is more than just picking up a flag and waving it at random times.

The crew we have on the post have built up their EXPERIENCE over many seasons of racing....
It isn't something that is done after half an hour brief....

It was once, and the short falls are obvious to the riders....

As for a Rider of the Super Quad.... Anybody want a go so I can have a break, then please come forward........ Actually, No! I have as much fun out there as some of the racers...

So next time I will just take my lunch with me, and do some Demo Laps in the Lunch break to entertain the crowd :)

Just give me some lessons so I can get out there too.
Have to agree with you being entertaining...near PMSL at the "almost highside" you did!

[quickbuck]

Just give me some lessons so I can get out there too.
Have to agree with you being entertaining...near PMSL at the "almost highside" you did!

The good ol' Kiwi Attitude is "A Kid can ride one", however ACC hate that attitude, as they can bite.... and bite BIG!
Will be keen to give you some lessons for next round, will only take 10 minutes to be honest... Just have to be sensible.
Would be good to get you to ride it covering the area between Splash and the Hair Pin....
Anecdotally, it appears to be where bikes touch (and hit fallen Riders, and cause the biggest injuries. Thinking of yesterday (K), the Nationals (JG), and Nicksta last year, here....
You would be the perfect "Janet on the spot" in all those situations.

As for entertaining, one must enjoy their work.... We are here too short to loath it.

[roadracingoldfart]

Who else can see the Oxymoron in this statement ;)

Stop using all your military abbreviations Aaron,
Theres no need to call racers oxygen deprived morons. :shutup:


:innocent::msn-wink::whistle:

[chanceyy]

Choppa,
Glad to see you have put your thinking cap on... a little crooked, but all feedback is considered.

Now, i may be speaking out of school a little here.... But here goes.

The idea of a Pick Up session is a good one, however there may well be a few disgruntled riders who have cross entered and need to get their bike back asap to fix it for their next class...
I know it would have destroyed Neils Championships last year when he had a Crash in Race 1 of F3 at round 3 (I think it was) and we needed to get him in ASAP to fix the bike....
He went on to win every other race that day...

If the Pick-up crew said "Stiff Bickies", then there would have been more than a couple of tools flying around the pit garage. As the incident would have penalised him for two championships, not the one.
Yes, just one example from a racer...... There are surely others.

I always ask the rider if they are sweet to stay out if the Crash Crew can't get out on time. Most are sweet with it.
If not, we try our best....

As for Ambulances on the track... They will take their good sweet time.
As a rider who received a severe lower limb injury and blocked the main intersection of SH1 and 3 at 7 pm in the evening, i couldn't give a Fat Rats about the amount of traffic i was preventing from moving...
All I wanted to be was comfortable before we went anywhere.

Same deal for the poor rider who got run over by another bike..... Also the guy who fell coming out of Higgins.....
The second priority is ensure the patient is comfortable.... First being Safety of the Aid...... BUT the patient MUST be stable before the Ambulance drives off.

One of the last priorities is actually getting the racing started again.... I know the racers want that to be first, unless they are the ones in the back of the Ambulance!

Rostered Lunch Sessions wouldn't work, as we would need double the crew..... OR else there would be Marshalls coming in and going out for about 2.5 hours while they all get a feed.

Well said ..and right on the money .. for those riders who do off or break down they just want to get in the pits as fast as possible to fix their bike & get back out there again

Choppa all discussion is good dude but seriously the ambo's took the time it took and a riders life/injuries take priority over gettting you guys back out there again. If you broke down & was asked to wait til the designated pick up time when you could be in the sheds fixing it, would you not be frustrated & angry .. huge ups to the guys who were stuck out on the track & had a fanstastic attitude about it.. not all are like that ..

We did take the opportunity yesterday to pick up the other bike when the ambos were picking up the riders fr higgens just to save time, our priority is to get out, pick up and check the track for oil & debris as quick as possbile .. we do not muck around as totally aware you guys are itching to get back out there

[CHOPPA]

Well said ..and right on the money .. for those riders who do off or break down they just want to get in the pits as fast as possible to fix their bike & get back out there again

Choppa all discussion is good dude but seriously the ambo's took the time it took and a riders life/injuries take priority over gettting you guys back out there again. If you broke down & was asked to wait til the designated pick up time when you could be in the sheds fixing it, would you not be frustrated & angry .. huge ups to the guys who were stuck out on the track & had a fanstastic attitude about it.. not all are like that ..

We did take the opportunity yesterday to pick up the other bike when the ambos were picking up the riders fr higgens just to save time, our priority is to get out, pick up and check the track for oil & debris as quick as possbile .. we do not muck around as totally aware you guys are itching to get back out there

Dont get me wrong guys, I think you have been doing a great job and things like ambos and crashes are out of your control. I wouldnt like to be stuck in the infield but I still think having designated pick up times would still be a great way to manage the time for races easier. Waiting 30 mins for a pick up is a good punishment, my bike got left on the infield at the nats for 2 hours!! Like i say i dont know how to run an event so i am just chucking a few one sided ideas out there instead of just complaining.

There needs to be something looked at though when the racing for the day is cut in half. We were expecting 30 laps and got 15. Maybe there is too many classes?

[quickbuck]

Dont get me wrong guys, I think you have been doing a great job and things like ambos and crashes are out of your control. I wouldnt like to be stuck in the infield but I still think having designated pick up times would still be a great way to manage the time for races easier. Waiting 30 mins for a pick up is a good punishment, my bike got left on the infield at the nats for 2 hours!! Like i say i dont know how to run an event so i am just chucking a few one sided ideas out there instead of just complaining.

There needs to be something looked at though when the racing for the day is cut in half. We were expecting 30 laps and got 15. Maybe there is too many classes?
I do see what you are saying Re pick up times....
It could well be a tool to massage a little extra time into the programme....

30 laps? Thought the Programme was for 25..... 10 + 10 + 5.
I can see how you would be disappointed if you only got to do half of the amount of laps you were expecting though.
Not too many classes IMHO, Motards weren't there.... And all the rest are Valid. Heck, there was about 5 classes in one race (Posties), yeah, I know some of the numbers in some of the sub classes are small....

2 hours stuck on the infield? That wasn't Manfeild or I hope! I know one that was out there for a while (not 2 hours), and it wasn't yours.... But he wasn't allowed to restart anyway due to crashing over a lap before the red flag...
Hell, I would have thrown you the tool box out of the Quad, and you could have taken your bike back to the pits in pieces in that time......

Oh, Round 2 is a 2 Dayer.... So there shouldn't be anything cut really.
If we have delays on Saturday, the clocks are Reset for Sunday.... and the cumulative time slip won't be as much of a factor.

[Clivoris]

Well done out there yesterday Chop. It's awesome to see you out there on the BMW.
Thanks for your suggestions and the supportive delivery. As always responses from VMCC officials shouldn't be interpreted as decisions by the committee or official statements unless they are identified as such. I'm all for discussion and debate about the meetings we run and how the club operates and we'd be unwise to ignore opinions in any forum. I always think about discussion here on KB as being comparable to any other discussion that occurs outside official club meetings. So, we will discuss these points at our next meeting and in the meantime I will reply with an unoffical opinion.
1. The pick up sessions are done on a when needed basis and the crew go as swiftly as they can. Some days are busier than others. We have tried varioius plans to speed the process but they never seem to pan-out on race-day.
2. Lunch rotation just isn't feasible. We are currently trying to get extra marshals to the track so we can rotate them through some track specific first aid training. It is harder to do than it sounds. Transporting rotated marshals out to the points would also eat time.
3. Timed races have been considered several times over the last couple of years and they are still being considered.
4. Changing race order might be a good idea and we'll have a look at it. I want to comment on a couple of things related this point 4. Providing an opportunity for cross-entry for those classes in which it is possible, is not intended to penalise those who can't cross-enter because of the class they have chosen to race in. It is simply an attempt to give more opportunity to some people. This year we are trying to give everybody more racing but it didn't work out yesterday because of some serious crashes. It's my opinion that it would be a good idea for those classes that get cut from a race schedule in one round, to get priority in future rounds if a similar situation arises. Others on the committee may have a different opinion, but we'll talk about it at the next meeting.
Thanks for the input and we will give it some thought. There are several things that we will be working on to get through as much racing as possible on racedays.

[quickbuck]

As always responses from VMCC officials shouldn't be interpreted as decisions by the committee or official statements unless they are identified as such.


Yeah, that's what I meant by "Speaking out of school", if anybody is unsure of what I mean.....

[yungatart]

The good ol' Kiwi Attitude is "A Kid can ride one", however ACC hate that attitude, as they can bite.... and bite BIG!
Will be keen to give you some lessons for next round, will only take 10 minutes to be honest... Just have to be sensible.
Would be good to get you to ride it covering the area between Splash and the Hair Pin....
Anecdotally, it appears to be where bikes touch (and hit fallen Riders, and cause the biggest injuries. Thinking of yesterday (K), the Nationals (JG), and Nicksta last year, here....
You would be the perfect "Janet on the spot" in all those situations.

As for entertaining, one must enjoy their work.... We are here too short to loath it.

I hear you QB! I have witnessed some nasty spills out on those parts of the track.
Your faith in me is touchiung....My First Aid skills are good, but I'm not so sure of my quad riding abilities.
You are on for a lesson next round...I'll hold you to that, and we will see how I go....

[Clivoris]

Yeah, that's what I meant by "Speaking out of school", if anybody is unsure of what I mean.....

All good man. Just being explicit so people feel free to express an opinion. Talk is good.

[CHOPPA]

All good man. Just being explicit so people feel free to express an opinion. Talk is good.

Im glad my comments have been taken in the constructive way i have suggested them and there is some positive suggestions coming up. Now I have seen some others opinions I am starting to see both sides of the coin. I think that idea Clive has a good idea about the race order depending on who got dropped the previous round etc

Im all for putting the entry fee prices up so maybe you can start paying people to help. $50 per rider per event over 100 riders is 5k you could divvy up between the marshals etc It already costs me $1500 per round so another $50 per round extra if it means we are going to get more riding then thats cheap! Just my tyres for the last round were $1500!!!

[quickbuck]

A little known fact is..... The Chocolate fish, water, LUNCH (Bold for a reason), Peanut slabs etc etc (wink, wink),and lollies, if we can keep Nige away from the jar, all go some way to compensation for the work that has to be done throughout the day.... Yes, the lunch is fantastic... and despite what I said about taking mine out on the Quad with me, it is actually better to come in and have the well cooked meal we have. Correct Fuel for the body is as important as the correct fuel for a bike. (It is more than chocolate.... although you might struggle to see that after what I just wrote).

We are all volinteers at the end of the day.

To be honest, if the whole crew was paid as professionals, then the race fees would be astronomical... and so would my tax bill at the end of the year ;)
Heck this is a club event, not MotoGP. Although we try to be as professional as MotoGP when it comes to the safety of ourselves and others.... No clowning around there.

[cowpoos]

It already costs me $1500 per round

How many laps did you do?? what does a trackday cost you? [or a test day?]

[Peter Smith]

I did feel sorry for the F1 boys that can't cross enter into another class. Being last on the program means they will get the least amount of racing if the meeting gets cut short.
Perhaps they could get street stock bikes as well, with thier lap times (2 minutes plus) they get twice as much track time.:shutup::shutup:

[Deano]

4. Changing race order might be a good idea and we'll have a look at it. I want to comment on a couple of things related this point 4. Providing an opportunity for cross-entry for those classes in which it is possible, is not intended to penalise those who can't cross-enter because of the class they have chosen to race in. It is simply an attempt to give more opportunity to some people. This year we are trying to give everybody more racing but it didn't work out yesterday because of some serious crashes. It's my opinion that it would be a good idea for those classes that get cut from a race schedule in one round, to get priority in future rounds if a similar situation arises. Others on the committee may have a different opinion, but we'll talk about it at the next meeting.


Totally agree on your last point. When I heard that only F3, F2 and F1 were to get their third race I thought that was a bit unfair to the other classes. The point about track time vs laps is always a difficult one.
At the end of the day it's the crashes that cause the hold ups and delays, but that's motorsport - shit happens. It is what it is and I accept it and am happy with it.

[Deano]

I did feel sorry for the F1 boys that can't cross enter into another class. Being last on the program means they will get the least amount of racing if the meeting gets cut short.
Perhaps they could get street stock bikes as well, with thier lap times (2 minutes plus) they get twice as much track time.:shutup::shutup:

Yeah but Streetstock can't cross enter either. And some people can't afford to cross enter - so there are many variables. You could argue that the SBK get more 'jollies' per lap. So it's a hard debate over laps vs time on track vs jollies had etc.

Would stopping cross entering have any impact on the timing on the day - no.

I just can't see any solution that will please everyone all of the time. It is what it is and at the end of the day everyone has a choice.

[chanceyy]

Dont get me wrong guys, I think you have been doing a great job and things like ambos and crashes are out of your control. I wouldnt like to be stuck in the infield but I still think having designated pick up times would still be a great way to manage the time for races easier. Waiting 30 mins for a pick up is a good punishment, my bike got left on the infield at the nats for 2 hours!! Like i say i dont know how to run an event so i am just chucking a few one sided ideas out there instead of just complaining.

There needs to be something looked at though when the racing for the day is cut in half. We were expecting 30 laps and got 15. Maybe there is too many classes?

Discussion is all good Choppa, :)

from my experience having designated pick up times can cause far more issues .. will take more than 15 mins to get half doz bikes off the track, thanks to Deano for allowing us to use his trailer and a good one it is too :niceone: we know in a very tight squeeze we can fit 3 bikes on (even f1 bikes) .. thankfully on sat when we had 5 bikes broken down 2 managed to get in under their own steam 2 on trailer & one pushed in as well and that was all in one race. Awesome to have the Quad out there letting us know who is ok & who definately needs a ride .. makes working out the fastest way to clear the track noted before we head out

Personally I think yesterday being first race of the winter series was one out of the box and some days are like that.

Discussions like this can only be healthy to learn and who knows there may be better ways of doing things :)

The biggest hold up yesterday was the major accident and that obviously took priority over everything else as it totally should. Chop you certainly had a weapon yesterday and awesome racing, I also can understand your desire to race giving you travel a fair way to attend. (as do many others)

Even though I am not a member of vic I have done crash for the last 3 seasons, yes its a social occasion along with ensuring you guys get to enjoy the days you do. Hence I give up my free time to help out n its good to know its appreciated :)

[woodyracer]

us streetstock riders cant cross enter, our bikes are small and not as tiring to ride [so we need more laps} also our races are always canned.....thats all from me :yes:

[Peter Smith]

This is why the National Superbike class is suffering.
Most racers want track time so 600's are the way to go as you can cross enter.
Unless you get a top sponsor and are given a superbike there is just not enough racing available for the big bucks it cost to race a 1000.

These opinions are my own, so are quite worthless. As you were.

[neil_cb125t]

discussion is good - put it down in writting ( old school like, on paper ) and come along to a VMCC meeting!!

[Nicksta]

I like all the ideas put.... i've been on both ends of the argument.... i've cross entered and had only 1 race between my classes... if i was stuck out there after a little low side and missed my next race i'd be gutted.... i've also had the (pleasure?) of holding everyone up while getting scraped off the hairpin... the ambo's did a great job but were in no hurry like i was... the crash crew and ambos and marshals do a stellar job as far as i can see... i dont know how to improve the way things are run to be honest...
I was most happy to see the blue flag being used this round too....
they used to swap the order each round a few seasons ago so everyone got a chance to go first and last... maybe run reverse order next round so F1 goes out first?
I love the idea of time on the track rather than laps.... that makes it fair for most i think?
Sorry i cant make it to the meetings Clive.. but welly is a bit far for me to travel... we appreciate you taking our feedback to the meetings for us :)

on that note, thanks Vic Club and all the volunteers for a great meeting... gave me the chance to get my racing mojo back :)

[scracha]

A few points I'd like to make.
1) Yesterday started very late. Yes, I know a further delay was made by it being declared a wet race but hell, it's the winter series so we've got to expect that. I like my beauty sleep like anybody else but can't understand why sign in and riders brief isn't MUCH earlier. We should have bikes lined up to go the moment the track allows it.
2) Rider safety should come first. Ambo's and shifting dangerously parked bikes should be priority.
3) Cross entered bikes needing to be shifted...umm....tough shit.....go easy, don't crash in your "secondary" class or don't cross enter on one bike if your "primary" class is so important.
4) Posties, clubmans, streetstock, mini lites, 125's pay just as much to enter, arrange transport and accommodation as the formula classes. Streetstock in particular often get a $hitty deal.
5) From the initial delay at the day's onset, it was obvious that even without crashes there wasn't a chance in hell of having all these races. The entire field's race lengths should be shorted far sooner (and subsequent races lengthened if we end up well ahead of schedule). This is far better than the current situation of shortening the last 2 or 3 races or even abandoning them. It aint rocket science...if there's a 30 minute delay, then that's about 18 laps so ditch 3 laps from each of the 6 races.
6) Clubmans...I'm not sure of the point of this class any-more and ditching it would give far more track-time for everyone. Give "clubmans" racers a bright green bib or summit and allocate them a class based on their practise time bracket. If that means wobbly ridden R1's in F3 then so be it. If they're clearly not safe/competent then send em off to do more track-days.




VMCC is still the best run series and some of the Nationals rounds are farcical in comparison.

Side-cars next round..am I being stupid or would it be sensible to send em out after an oil spill.

[cowpoos]

This is why the National Superbike class is suffering.
Most racers want track time so 600's are the way to go as you can cross enter.
Unless you get a top sponsor and are given a superbike there is just not enough racing available for the big bucks it cost to race a 1000.

These opions are my own, so are quite worthless. As you were.

Your right...and thats who the crowds want to watch...not mopeds take half the day to do a lap!!!

combine F1,F2 classes together...can run separate points, timing, etc
Then combine 125 and F3
classics
Streetstock and invite buckets [combined]
Clubmans and motards together...Clubmans get a headstart.

Sidecar Steeres and ballast can run the hotdog stand and give scrutineering advice

[slowpoke]

There are some great ideas coming through here but I reckon the way forward is coming up very shortly: MNZ AGM. The Clubs need to sit down with MNZ and develop a PLAN that best develops the sport.

At the moment both ends of the sport are being short-changed. As a result young streetstockers could well get the shits and turn away before they've really begun and no-one can be bothered racing a Superbike.

It sucks, but it's not hard to fix. As a result everyone would eventually benefit.

Edit: I made a written submission to MNZ on this point last week. It would be great to get a few more thoughts/ideas going their way before the AGM.

[wharfy]

A few points I'd like to make.

6) Clubmans...I'm not sure of the point of this class any-more and ditching it would give far more track-time for everyone. Give "clubmans" racers a bright green bib or summit and allocate them a class based on their practise time bracket. If that means wobbly ridden R1's in F3 then so be it. If they're clearly not safe/competent then send em off to do more track-days.


It was not that long ago that I was a clubman racer and the point of it was (I thought) to give people with bikes that were not eligible or not competitive in other classes a place to race. Also A number of clubman racers have no desire to move "up" and I think that is perfectly OK and we should give them a place to race, especially as clubman's serves more than one purpose.

The other is for people to "get their feet wet" in racing to see if they liked it. To "run what ya brung" with the only rule being if you were to fast you got kicked out.
I think clubman's is still valid.

[Trudes]

Come bucket racing if you want crap loads of tracktime...... :dodge:

[Biggles08]

I'm well impressed with this thread on both sides of the coin...the ideas coming forward are very valid for discussion and the responses are in a manner that is non defensive and in fact appear to be appreciated. This is a GREAT sign for the future of motorcycling in the VMCC club as you are all wanting to improve what we currently have EVEN THOUGH IT IS THE BEST RUN CLUB RACING IN NEW ZEALAND IMHO.

Personally I thought the first round of the 2010 winter series was run pretty well despite the delays due to crashes (all in the F2 class too mainly!). Like has already been said, the only improvement I could think of was to get things underway earlier. Ideally there should be bikes on the track as soon as possible in the morning to free up as much time as we can for unseen holdups later in the day. Also, I thought the 'no grid sticker' thing you tried worked well and I think most knew where they were supposed to be.

With the blue flag being used again I think it may pay to explain at riders briefing how to handle being shown this flag. Personally I would like any rider who is being lapped to absolutely DO NOTHING DIFFERENT when shown this flag. All it should be (and should be explained specifically at riders briefing as such) is a warning that fast bikes are coming past any moment so don't freak out and swerve when it happens. This will stop any potential incidences for other bikes about to lap a rider as well.

Anyway, as I said in my opening sentence, I'm totally impressed with VMCC and your attitude to improving the sport...keep up the great work!

[Shaun]

I'm well impressed with this thread on both sides of the coin...the ideas coming forward are very valid for discussion and the responses are in a manner that is non defensive and in fact appear to be appreciated. This is a GREAT sign for the future of motorcycling in the VMCC club as you are all wanting to improve what we currently have EVEN THOUGH IT IS THE BEST RUN CLUB RACING IN NEW ZEALAND IMHO.

Personally I thought the first round of the 2010 winter series was run pretty well despite the delays due to crashes (all in the F2 class too mainly!). Like has already been said, the only improvement I could think of was to get things underway earlier. Ideally there should be bikes on the track as soon as possible in the morning to free up as much time as we can for unseen holdups later in the day. Also, I thought the 'no grid sticker' thing you tried worked well and I think most knew where they were supposed to be.

With the blue flag being used again I think it may pay to explain at riders briefing how to handle being shown this flag. Personally I would like any rider who is being lapped to absolutely DO NOTHING DIFFERENT when shown this flag. All it should be (and should be explained specifically at riders briefing as such) is a warning that fast bikes are coming past any moment so don't freak out and swerve when it happens. This will stop any potential incidences for other bikes about to lap a rider as well.

Anyway, as I said in my opening sentence, I'm totally impressed with VMCC and your attitude to improving the sport...keep up the great work!

Well said again, and I AGREE RE The Blue flag usage education

[scracha]

our right...and thats who the crowds want to watch...not mopeds take half the day to do a lap!!!

Crowds? What crowds? Valid point perhaps at the nationals but this is club racing and half the entries are on the "mopeds" as you politely put it.
Umm...and how do the moped riders graduate on to formula bikes?


combine F1,F2 classes together...can run separate points, timing, etc

Been saying that for years.



Then combine 125 and F3

Perhaps...but they're in with streetstock ATM as entries for F3 with pro-twin mean the class is pretty full.



Streetstock and invite buckets [combined]
Thought they were



Clubmans and motards together...Clubmans get a headstart.
Now you're joking. Last thing I'd want as a clubman racer is a motard cutting me up and I'm sure the last thing motard riders want is wobbly riders on thou's cocking up their race.


It was not that long ago that I was a clubman racer and the point of it was (I thought) to give people with bikes that were not eligible or not competitive in other classes a place to race. Also A number of clubman racers have no desire to move "up" and I think that is perfectly OK and we should give them a place to race, especially as clubman's serves more than one purpose.

The other is for people to "get their feet wet" in racing to see if they liked it. To "run what ya brung" with the only rule being if you were to fast you got kicked out.
I think clubman's is still valid.
How does clubmans racers bungin on a green bib, getting to "run what they brung" and being allocated a suitable class based on their qualifying time NOT meet your above requirements? Only other stipulation is that they are NOT awarded points (as per current situ)? Guys and gals doing say 1.18 on their R1's would be far better/safer/learn more at the back of the F2 pack than at the front of Clubmans. They're still having a race after all?

[cowpoos]

Come bucket racing if you want crap loads of tracktime...... :dodge:

You could invite the streetstockers too??

[cowpoos]

Now you're joking. Last thing I'd want as a clubman racer is a motard cutting me up and I'm sure the last thing motard riders want is wobbly riders on thou's cocking up their race.




Okay...motards get a head start?? most people that have done trackdays and decide to go racing would have experienced interesting and slightly odd racing lines...so would handle motards better than most I would expext?

[unhingedlizard]

Guys and gals doing say 1.18 on their R1's would be far better/safer/learn more at the back of the F2 pack than at the front of Clubmans. They're still having a race after all?

Given that saturday was my first race I dont really feel qualified to enter this debate. However I do strongly agree with this. I feel I learnt a whole lot more at the back of the F1 pack than I would have done at the front of clubmans

[scracha]

Okay...motards get a head start?? most people that have done trackdays and decide to go racing would have experienced interesting and slightly odd racing lines...so would handle motards better than most I would expext?

Now you've really lost the fuckin plot Mr Poos. Lapped riders aside, I wouldn't expect anyone to be out racing who hasn't done at least a couple of trackdays.

[Biggles08]

Now you've really lost the fuckin plot Mr Poos. Lapped riders aside, I wouldn't expect anyone to be out racing who hasn't done at least a couple of trackdays.

The very first race meeting I attended (PMCC Summer Series) we (clubmans) were lined up with Motards at Taupo. The tards were on a grid in front and flagged off first, then we were started. By the end of the race all us front guys in clubmans had cut through the entire field of tards. All worked out ok as by then the field was spread out a bit..

[wharfy]

Given that saturday was my first race I dont really feel qualified to enter this debate. However I do strongly agree with this. I feel I learnt a whole lot more at the back of the F1 pack than I would have done at the front of clubmans

Guys/gals doing consistant 1:18's will be kicked out of clubmans and have to race in F1 or F2 depending on the capacity of their bike :)

Typically there are 20 - 25 clubman entries per round of the VMCC winter series (source:mylaps - VMCC web site) so it is pretty popular even though it is not a championship class.

[crazy man]

thay should alow standard 750 twins in f3 like ducatis should be very fair against hoted up sv 650s?

[Kickaha]

thay should alow standard 750 twins in f3 like ducatis should be very fair against hoted up sv 650s?

they are http://www.motorcyclingnz.co.nz/download/2010_MoMS_Appendix_B.pdf

Rule 1.3 Twin cylinder four stroke up to 750cc

4.3 Twin cylinder four strokes shall be limited as follows:
a) Up to 500cc, no restrictions apart from fuel as above.
b) Over 500cc, two valves per cylinder, are restricted to 750cc and fuel as above,
over 640cc must not be water-cooled.
c) Over 500cc three or more valves per cylinder, are restricted to 650cc and fuel as above.
Additionally these machines must retain the standard OEM air box/cleaner assembly in
its entirety, air filter element and carburettor (with the exception of removable jets or
throttle body, including injector).

[GSVR]

thay should alow standard 750 twins in f3 like ducatis should be very fair against hoted up sv 650s?

I don't like that idea. Just get rid of F3 and have a Bears class but ban V4 Apriliai

[FROSTY]

On the suggestions front. I really like the idea that if an incident is severe enough to cause a red flag then that race gets moved to the back of the program or of course if 50% race distance covered the race is called. Generally theres a few minutes delay doing pickups etc.That gives the next class time to be gridded up on the dummy grid.
I don't feel an innocent class should miss out on racing because one particular class is crash ridden on the day.

[Deano]

On the suggestions front. I really like the idea that if an incident is severe enough to cause a red flag then that race gets moved to the back of the program or of course if 50% race distance covered the race is called. Generally theres a few minutes delay doing pickups etc.That gives the next class time to be gridded up on the dummy grid.
I don't feel an innocent class should miss out on racing because one particular class is crash ridden on the day.

But innocent racers within those 'crash ridden classes' should miss out instead ?

[crazy man]

lm talkiing 4 valves water cooled but standard engine just race fiber fairing. realy l would of perferd stock sv 650 er 650 engines vs 400 4s hoted up as been real fair.

[crazy man]

there is no bears at the vic club racing if we did it would fix all lol

[FROSTY]

But innocent racers within those 'crash ridden classes' should miss out instead ?
No system is perfect. But why should a fully subscribed class who havent had crashes have to miss out on racing because of a class that has had crashes? I feel it has a triple positive. 1) the class becomes self policing 2) an innocent party in a crash has the opertunity to fix their bike 3) Faster turnover between races.
Im in no way saying I'm right here just calling it as I see it

[Biggles08]

No system is perfect. But why should a fully subscribed class who havent had crashes have to miss out on racing because of a class that has had crashes? I feel it has a triple positive. 1) the class becomes self policing 2) an innocent party in a crash has the opertunity to fix their bike 3) Faster turnover between races.
Im in no way saying I'm right here just calling it as I see it

You are not right Frosty....sorry....hehe

The F2 class traditionally has probably the worst crash rate at meetings and I think that is a fair reflection on how competitive the class is...no less or no more. Your suggestion really has no 'self policing' qualities about it...still the same amount of crashes would occur in F2 if this was enforced.

[cowboyz]

Your right...and thats who the crowds want to watch...not mopeds take half the day to do a lap!!!

combine F1,F2 classes together...can run separate points, timing, etc
Then combine 125 and F3
classics
Streetstock and invite buckets [combined]
Clubmans and motards together...Clubmans get a headstart.

Sidecar Steeres and ballast can run the hotdog stand and give scrutineering advice

qualify everything I say below by saying I talking out my arse.... but...

Thinking the difficulty with combining that many classes is I thought you are only allowed 35 bikes on the track... so that limits numbers some what.

and dont trash clubmans just yet cause I just getting into it! (soon)

[FROSTY]

You are not right Frosty....sorry....hehe

The F2 class traditionally has probably the worst crash rate at meetings and I think that is a fair reflection on how competitive the class is...no less or no more. Your suggestion really has no 'self policing' qualities about it...still the same amount of crashes would occur in F2 if this was enforced.
And again why should everybody else have to suffer?
I find myself empathising with str8jacket and the 150ss/250ss guys. Why should they miss out on a race because F2 was a crashfest?
Actually Given that the entire intent of 150ss is to be the learner class for younguns they to my way of thinking should NEVER get bumped out of the program.

[roogazza]

He's an Idea, get hold of the Vic club guys that used to organise the Shell Two Wheeler meets of the early eighties. I don't remember any problems if they had any in those days? They were great meets and I think we only got two races each(maybe three)for the day.
I don't recall any cross dressing and I don't think anyone was that concerned. Two races not enough in a day?
Maybe the number of crashes is down to it being a winter series, cold/damp and learner racers ?
Hutt Club ran meets at Levin in the 70's and we got 5 or 6 races each in the day, what are you people doing wrong ?
Is it just the crashing messing with the programme or are there too many classes? G.

[lukemillar]

I definitely thing 3 races per class on a 1 day meeting is too much. When I saw the programme on Saturday, I knew that was never going to happen! If a day ran like clockwork, didn't rain and no-one crashed you might just squeeze it in! However, as Rnd 1 showed, we were already behind schedule at 9:30am, purely from giving people 20 mins to change tyres because of the weather.

You could also weight the number of laps per race based on the rough pace of the group. For instance - F1, F2, F3 can run 2x 10 lap races whereas Clubmans, Streetstock etc. can run 2x 8 lap races. End of the day, it is just about managing time and that isn't going to happen if you jam pack the schedule from the start.

[Biggles08]

And again why should everybody else have to suffer?
I find myself empathising with str8jacket and the 150ss/250ss guys. Why should they miss out on a race because F2 was a crashfest?
Actually Given that the entire intent of 150ss is to be the learner class for younguns they to my way of thinking should NEVER get bumped out of the program.

Your right about most of that Frosty but my point is the racers in F2 shouldn't suffer anymore either just because the class may have tighter racing and sometimes ends in a 'crashfest' as you put it. You say 'everybody else' as if F2 are the heathens...the fact is it is merely another class for motorcycle racing and we still ride on two wheels. Some guys in F2 crash more than others so why should the rest of F2 suffer for these guys? That's my only point...I'm not suggesting other classes should suffer more than F2 either...just putting you straight regarding your totalitarian suggestion towards 'one class' that's all.

Also like it or hate it...spectators love crashes! ;-) You could argue we are the entertainers!

[Biggles08]

I definitely thing 3 races per class on a 1 day meeting is too much. When I saw the programme on Saturday, I knew that was never going to happen! If a day ran like clockwork, didn't rain and no-one crashed you might just squeeze it in! However, as Rnd 1 showed, we were already behind schedule at 9:30am, purely from giving people 20 mins to change tyres because of the weather.

You could also weight the number of laps per race based on the rough pace of the group. For instance - F1, F2, F3 can run 2x 10 lap races whereas Clubmans, Streetstock etc. can run 2x 8 lap races. End of the day, it is just about managing time and that isn't going to happen if you jam pack the schedule from the start.

Well put lukemiller...and I must admit I thought the program was a bit ambitious too!

[FROSTY]

Your right about most of that Frosty but my point is the racers in F2 shouldn't suffer anymore either just because the class may have tighter racing and sometimes ends in a 'crashfest' as you put it. You say 'everybody else' as if F2 are the heathens...the fact is it is merely another class for motorcycle racing and we still ride on two wheels. Some guys in F2 crash more than others so why should the rest of F2 suffer for these guys? That's my only point...I'm not suggesting other classes should suffer more than F2 either...just putting you straight regarding your totalitarian suggestion towards 'one class' that's all.

Also like it or hate it...spectators love crashes! ;-) You could argue we are the entertainers!
I havent been to a vic club meeting in years so I'm not pickin on any class. but logic to me is that if its a red flag crash situation then move that race to back of program.

[Biggles08]

No system is perfect. But why should a fully subscribed class who havent had crashes have to miss out on racing because of a class that has had crashes? I feel it has a triple positive. 1) the class becomes self policing 2) an innocent party in a crash has the opertunity to fix their bike 3) Faster turnover between races.
Im in no way saying I'm right here just calling it as I see it

You are picking on the 'class' that crashes by putting them to the back of the program and trying to 'police' a class because they have had crashes. That's picking on a class Frosty. At the end of the day anyone can crash and unfortunately its part of our sport...trying to penalize a class of bikes because there have been crashes in it makes as much sense as grounding your child for 2 weeks because they hurt themselves while playing outside on the swings...they didn't mean to hurt themselves, it just happens sometimes so we have to manage it when it does!

[ajturbo]

hey Scracha.... i DO LIKE point number "6".....

[cowpoos]

qualify everything I say below by saying I talking out my arse.... but...

Thinking the difficulty with combining that many classes is I thought you are only allowed 35 bikes on the track... so that limits numbers some what.

and dont trash clubmans just yet cause I just getting into it! (soon)

Still allows for 175 entrys?

[quickbuck]

On the suggestions front. I really like the idea that if an incident is severe enough to cause a red flag then that race gets moved to the back of the program or of course if 50% race distance covered the race is called. Generally theres a few minutes delay doing pickups etc.That gives the next class time to be gridded up on the dummy grid.
I don't feel an innocent class should miss out on racing because one particular class is crash ridden on the day.

Sorry Frosty, there is a little flaw in that plan...
Not sure of the rule exactly, or where it is in the book, but it goes along the lines of this (in most forms of motor racing).
During a race stoppage the bikes return to the pits whole the track is cleared.
NO maintenance work is allowed to be carried out on the bikes......
If less than 50% run, The race will be restarted with a duration remaining determined by the clerk of the course...

That's how I understand it.....

SO, by letting them go back to the pits until the end of the day... Well, that is full of errors.
Especially if the bike is cross entered into another class (where we had to do a ton of work on it to prep it for the other class).

Besides, who would police the no maintenance work?

[FROSTY]

I thought of that QB --then I remembered watching Stroudy wadding his bike really badly at teratonga and a mad dash to fix it ready for the restart.

[GSVR]

I havent been to a vic club meeting in years so I'm not pickin on any class. but logic to me is that if its a red flag crash situation then move that race to back of program.

Ok then... Red flag stoppage in first F1 race and the last race on the programme is F1. Do you propose to run 2 races for the same bikes back to back?

I say give people incentives not to crash like if you crash you don't get any points and you don't get to ride in the restart. No one likes riding against guys that are dangerous. Yeah shit happens and some crashes just happen but others are not.

[Skunk]

A suggested race order

Sidecars
clubmens
F1
F3
Streetstock
F2
Postclassics
Well thought through post Sloan. It has made me think.
We do plan to put "the most likely not to notice a leak" on the grid around lunch and the end of the day to give time to fix things without holding the racing up.
We also reverse the race order. It used to be each round was swapped around and then we started doing so Round 1-3 was one order and Round 4-6 was the reverse order. I don't know what we are doing this year... yet.


Well put lukemiller...and I must admit I thought the program was a bit ambitious too!
The schedule wasn't that hard to meet. But I don't think anything went right on the day. You may have noticed the big delay crashes were when we couldn't call lunch (too early and after we'd had it). Combine it with the weather and other changes - shit happens. We learn from these things.

Now a friendly request - get your entries AND PAYMENTS in for Round 2 NOW! That was one of the issues on the day. Some paid but hadn't entered, some entered hadn't paid, some hadn't done either. Very hard to sort out in the office. (Didn't help my bike wanted to leak oil - I was fixing it when I should have been in the office helping.)

[roadracingoldfart]

Now a friendly request - get your entries AND PAYMENTS in for Round 2 NOW! That was one of the issues on the day. Some paid but hadn't entered, some entered hadn't paid, some hadn't done either. Very hard to sort out in the office.


Dont the supplementary regs state if the entries are not in before the day then they are not accepted on the day . ???
I agree with a bit of lee-way but if it is the reason for delays then thats a reason to stick to the rule. No entry , no race.
Every one else manages to enter on time so the few that dont make those that can plan suffer delays, unfair. :angry:

Same for bikes arriving late to the pit gate , if its shut , leave it shut :bye: , thats the rule and every time its broken the delays get longer.

PS; I like the revised race order you posted Sloan , works for my team members but some wont like it i guess.

Paul.

[slowpoke]

And again why should everybody else have to suffer?
I find myself empathising with str8jacket and the 150ss/250ss guys. Why should they miss out on a race because F2 was a crashfest?
Actually Given that the entire intent of 150ss is to be the learner class for younguns they to my way of thinking should NEVER get bumped out of the program.

Trying to penalise a class as such doesn't serve any purpose and will be totally ineffective. The "class" is just a loose collection of individuals that varies from round to round, not a cohesive entity you can reason with.

The SS150 comparison isn't really valid either, as far as SS150's are concerned there are probably only 3 corners on Manfeild as the rest of the time the throttle is just pinned. Racing a 600/F1/F3/Post Classic bike is a far more risky proposition hence there will always be more crashes.


I definitely thing 3 races per class on a 1 day meeting is too much. When I saw the programme on Saturday, I knew that was never going to happen! If a day ran like clockwork, didn't rain and no-one crashed you might just squeeze it in! However, as Rnd 1 showed, we were already behind schedule at 9:30am, purely from giving people 20 mins to change tyres because of the weather.

You could also weight the number of laps per race based on the rough pace of the group. For instance - F1, F2, F3 can run 2x 10 lap races whereas Clubmans, Streetstock etc. can run 2x 8 lap races. End of the day, it is just about managing time and that isn't going to happen if you jam pack the schedule from the start.
.

I don't think it's too ambitious, but you have to be disciplined and make decisions earlier rather than later to get the schedule back on track. I've seen the WA Motorcycle Racing club run practice, qualifying and 2 x races for each class so every class had 4 track outings. Just word everyone up and stick to your guns with closing the gate (close gate 60sec after opening) and adjust program early to get it back on schedule. I wasn't there but was it not obvious that wets would be required? With losing 20min's at the start, the decision could have been made almost straight away to cut every race by 1 lap.

It's easy with 20:20 hindsight I know, and even with things not going to plan I'm sure Vic Club put in a great effort.

Sorry, I haven't got much sympathy or time for complaints/rejigging the program for cross entrants. Having only paid $20 to enter a second class their rights are secondary to the folks who have paid the full price to get on the same grid.

[ajturbo]

Dont the supplementary regs state if the entries are not in before the day then they are not accepted on the day . ???
I agree with a bit of lee-way but if it is the reason for delays then thats a reason to stick to the rule. No entry , no race.
Every one else manages to enter on time so the few that dont make those that can plan suffer delays, unfair. :angry:

Same for bikes arriving late to the pit gate , if its shut , leave it shut :bye: , thats the rule and every time its broken the delays get longer.

PS; I like the revised race order you posted Sloan , works for my team members but some wont like it i guess.

Paul.

Hey Paul,

i am on the gate now.. and when it is shut, no rider gets through...
last round, one rider almost missed out ( i was shutting gate as he came... he was never late again!)
I will be hard the next round also

but in saying that, we did have one rider who had to start his race from pit lane :scooter:
this did not hold up anyone except himself...:Punk:

[quickbuck]

and 2 x races for each class so every class had 4 track outings. Just word everyone up and stick to your guns with closing the gate (close gate 60sec after opening) and adjust program early to get it back on schedule. I wasn't there but was it not obvious that wets would be required? With losing 20min's at the start, the decision could have been made almost straight away to cut every race by 1 lap.
As you say, you weren't there... BUT as soon as it was decleared a Wet Meet, then the rain stopped and things started to dry......

Smart people bring their bike with one of each tyre fitted on days like that... And SS150 riders just kicked back and chewed the fat ;)


It's easy with 20:20 hindsight I know, and even with things not going to plan I'm sure Vic Club put in a great effort.


Yes, it is easy..... and more importantly Vic Club can take away the lessons and learn from them.... and the effort as such will be more efficient.

[Racey Rider]

And maybe theres our answer.

If it's declared a wet race - "You've got twenty minutes to change your tyres.
In the mean time ........... First call for streetstocks"

Just change the program - chuck us out there - Where ready to go any old time!

GP125's will be changing wheels of course, .... But they can just go out on the back of the next superbike race.

[Dogboy900]

This is not quite in line with the rest of the thread but is a suggestion for VMCC for the winter series.

Is there such a thing as a media officer for VMCC? If someone sent the results to the Dom Post and if one of the photographers present would like to donate a pic for the paper I am sure the paper would have no problems running the results in the weekend sports results and maybe a pic every now and again. It would have to be good advertising for both the club and the series.

[ktm]

Excellent suggestion dogboy. Might get a few more spectators interested as well.

[Sketchy_Racer]

Great idea Dogboy! Only problem is that VMCC are already short of volunteers to get the race meetings to run at all, so until someone puts up their hand to do the job I would be surprised if that will become a reality.

[Clivoris]

It is a good idea dogboy. Her_b4 has done press releases with photographs for us in the past with spectacularly depressing results. As usual, if anyone wants to give her a hand they are more than welcome I'm sure.

[CHOPPA]

Great idea Dogboy! Only problem is that VMCC are already short of volunteers to get the race meetings to run at all, so until someone puts up their hand to do the job I would be surprised if that will become a reality.

Ill do the press release for them......

[CHOPPA]

Seriously though, Andy from Bikesport.co.nz only charges $200 for that type of service and it will almost be sure to get great press.

He has put a small thing on his website from last meeting but he has also done a whole story for Kiwibiker etc

http://www.bikesportnz.com/?p=3063#more-3063

[jellywrestler]

And maybe theres our answer.

If it's declared a wet race - "You've got twenty minutes to change your tyres.
In the mean time ........... First call for streetstocks"

Just change the program - chuck us out there - Where ready to go any old time!

GP125's will be changing wheels of course, .... But they can just go out on the back of the next superbike race.

not as simple as that but an idea worth discussion anyway. In the old days at Wanganui when it rained they'd call the sidecars out to swwep the rain off. Not everyone was ready and there was some very unhappy competitors who simply missed races as a result.

[Matt Bleck]

Ill do the press release for them......

:laugh:yeah I can see it now... "I showed up and gave everyone the learn, see you all at the next one!" :mellow:

[CHOPPA]

:laugh:yeah I can see it now... "I showed up and gave everyone the learn, see you all at the next one!" :mellow:

Yup! Even if I come last....

[cowpoos]

Yup! Even if I come last....

lol....A Brian Woods article then!!!

[CHOPPA]

lol....A Brian Woods article then!!!

Whos he...............??

[cowpoos]

Whos he...............??

a fella who wrote an article making out how well he done during a race meeting...like he'd won the races...and didn't even give the real winners any kudous...

[CHOPPA]

a fella who wrote an article making out how well he done during a race meeting...like he'd won the races...and didn't even give the real winners any kudous...

I think I remember a race report from puke when he smoked Sam?

[Biggles08]

I think I remember a race report from puke when he smoked Sam?
baaahhhh....anyone can smoke sam!!!! :-D

[lukemillar]

I don't think it's too ambitious, but you have to be disciplined and make decisions earlier rather than later to get the schedule back on track. I've seen the WA Motorcycle Racing club run practice, qualifying and 2 x races for each class so every class had 4 track outings. Just word everyone up and stick to your guns with closing the gate (close gate 60sec after opening) and adjust program early to get it back on schedule. I wasn't there but was it not obvious that wets would be required? With losing 20min's at the start, the decision could have been made almost straight away to cut every race by 1 lap.

It's easy with 20:20 hindsight I know, and even with things not going to plan I'm sure Vic Club put in a great effort.

Sorry, I haven't got much sympathy or time for complaints/rejigging the program for cross entrants. Having only paid $20 to enter a second class their rights are secondary to the folks who have paid the full price to get on the same grid.

The ambo went out a few times and you can't hurry that along! With safety in mind, it just isn't possible to stick to the schedule sometimes.