View Full Version : Peter Bethune's trial starts Thursday 27 May
imdying
9th July 2010, 16:07
Whales are a resource.I don't understand why that is so hard to understand for some people. The Japanese will not stop whaling, but there's a pretty good chance that if people stop being dicks about it, they'll agree to sustainable harvesting that can satisfy the needs of both parties.
Yes. They should be farmed and eaten. They'd never go extinct if they had commercial value. There's no shortage of sheep & cattle, despite the numbers consumed.I'm not completely confident on that; you're still talking humans and they're proven not to be the smartest out there... look at hippys for example.
Max Preload
9th July 2010, 16:16
I don't understand why that is so hard to understand for some people. The Japanese will not stop whaling, but there's a pretty good chance that if people stop being dicks about it, they'll agree to sustainable harvesting that can satisfy the needs of both parties.
Yeah, there seems to be some irrational emotional attachment to whales for some people - fucked if I know why. Sure, they're interesting but that's about as far as it goes. Mind you, the Hindus have the same thing with cows... imagine if all 950 million Hindus told us to stop breeding, killing & eating cows.
Y
]? And if you're so in support of "customary rights", how do you feel about maori treaty settlements? Or is it only OK when it pisses the greenies off?
fuck the treaty
imdying
9th July 2010, 16:22
Yeah, there seems to be some irrational emotional attachment to whales for some people - fucked if I know why. Sure, they're interesting but that's about as far as it goes. Mind you, the Hindus have the same thing with cows... imagine if all 950 million Hindus told us to stop breeding, killing & eating cows.Pretty much. Whales are kinda cool though, and there's no good reason to wipe them out... So if the Japanese can show proven herd numbers and agree to a hunt limit, then let them go nuts... they've been doing it since the birth of Christ, so who are we to say they can't at all.
fuck the treatyWell that would be the ideal obviously, but given the world would frown on a Maori cull, there doesn't appear to be much chance of ignoring it.
Max Preload
9th July 2010, 16:27
Pretty much. Whales are kinda cool though, and there's no good reason to wipe them out... So if the Japanese can show proven herd numbers and agree to a hunt limit, then let them go nuts... they've been doing it since the birth of Christ, so who are we to say they can't at all.Absolutely. I don't want to see them gone either. The fact is they're not even heading that way. It's just the whale huggers can't see the forest for the trees.
imdying
9th July 2010, 16:29
Absolutely. I don't want to see them gone either. The fact is they're not even heading that way. It's just the whale huggers can't see the forest for the trees.Credit where credit is due though, we'd have whacked a lot more species by now without the hippys though.
Max Preload
9th July 2010, 16:33
Explain to me how a stationary boat can ram another boat....
http://il.youtube.com/watch?v=f-Ffr7Nk2DE
Stationary? Neither vessels were stationary. Are you too blind from all that tossing off over whales to see the wake behind Buffoon's vessel?
shrub
9th July 2010, 16:54
Fantastic! I've got the knuckledraggers in a right tizz. I love these guys, poke them the right way and they dance a merry dance for me.
imdying
9th July 2010, 17:00
Fantastic! I've got the knuckledraggers in a right tizz. I love these guys, poke them the right way and they dance a merry dance for me.If by that you mean you've got the realists agreeing once again that the right course of action is nothing like what the terrorists/self styled pirates are trying to achieve, then sure :first:
shrub
9th July 2010, 17:23
Dance muppet, dance.:yes:
Max Preload
9th July 2010, 17:37
Fantastic! I've got the knuckledraggers in a right tizz. I love these guys, poke them the right way and they dance a merry dance for me.
Ah the internet equivalent of waving the white flag of surrender, knowing you're beaten and you have no valid response to the facts raised.
Here's your L for your forehead.
puddytat
9th July 2010, 19:00
Love to see what the Jap nationalist would think if we started fishing in thier sanctuaries....
Its the arrogance of the fuckers that piss me off,it took a war to stop them last time, & they still havnt aplogised for killing my Grandad...
Unlike most who can apologise for mistakes & mass murder, their fucked up panty sniffing culture never have.The good thing is the "collapse" will effect them more than us.Karmas a bitch.
shrub
9th July 2010, 19:59
facts raised..
When you actually use facts instead of the baseless propaganda issued by your betters I'll take you seriously. Until then I shall treat you as a kick monkey - you will dance when I kick you and amuse me when I am bored.
shrub
9th July 2010, 20:01
Love to see what the Jap nationalist would think if we started fishing in thier sanctuaries....
Its the arrogance of the fuckers that piss me off,it took a war to stop them last time, & they still havnt aplogised for killing my Grandad...
Unlike most who can apologise for mistakes & mass murder, their fucked up panty sniffing culture never have.The good thing is the "collapse" will effect them more than us.Karmas a bitch.
Well said.
Woodman
9th July 2010, 20:29
In what way should "plunder" be described?
CCAMLR appear to be managing this fishery in a workable manner.
Managing it my ass!!! It is basically being fished because all the other fishing grounds have been fished out. Oh sorry "managed'.
That area is the last untouched environment left on the planet (well it was). All so some fishermen cam make some money.
Short term thinking.
Brian d marge
10th July 2010, 03:00
two Wong's don't make a wright , only another Wong
and as to the sandy gill , fk I would have reversed over the butter throwing pain in the arse hippies and then Dumped the entire contents of 6 months voyage septic tank contents into or onto the stoners
what ever touchy feely emotions ya have in the perfect world , all comes to naught when some scrote steals your TV , and that scrote is a product of the community that WE failed to protect
Fk btune , Eat a whale and look after family FIRST
hear endith the sermon
Stephen
Woodman
10th July 2010, 08:38
You make sure you obey and follow every law in the book there Brian d'marge.
Even if you disagree with it you must obey every law to the letter of the law otherwise you will appear hypocritical.
oldrider
10th July 2010, 10:47
Mr Bethune was arrested when the Shonan Maru 2 docked in Japan and is now in custody pending a trial on charges of trespass, causing injury, vandalism, carrying a knife and obstructing commercial activities.
Facing upto 15 years in jail. Trial is on Thursday (Kiwi time) - Mid June for a decision.
So wadda reckon - is he going to get a slap on the wrist - or should he book his next whale-watching tour for 2025?
This was the opening question of the OP of this thread......so how did it pan out?....."Slap on the the wrist".....thread closed! :yes:
onearmedbandit
10th July 2010, 10:59
Love to see what the Jap nationalist would think if we started fishing in thier sanctuaries....
Its the arrogance of the fuckers that piss me off,it took a war to stop them last time, & they still havnt aplogised for killing my Grandad...
Unlike most who can apologise for mistakes & mass murder, their fucked up panty sniffing culture never have.The good thing is the "collapse" will effect them more than us.Karmas a bitch.
Idiot. Oh wait that's not ten characters. Ignorant idiot. That's better.
onearmedbandit
10th July 2010, 10:59
Love to see what the Jap nationalist would think if we started fishing in thier sanctuaries....
Its the arrogance of the fuckers that piss me off,it took a war to stop them last time, & they still havnt aplogised for killing my Grandad...
Unlike most who can apologise for mistakes & mass murder, their fucked up panty sniffing culture never have.The good thing is the "collapse" will effect them more than us.Karmas a bitch.
Idiot. Oh wait that's not ten characters. Ignorant idiot. That's better.
shrub
10th July 2010, 12:37
This was the opening question of the OP of this thread......so how did it pan out?....."Slap on the the wrist".....thread closed! :yes:
The Japs didn't want too close a scrutiny from the international community so were keen to see him go away. Why didn't they want close international scrutiny? Because not everyone believes their propaganda. Slap his wrist and send him home and the media with him. In 2 weeks all is forgotten and they can go back to pretending to conduct scientific research by slaughtering over 1000 whales.
I think Pete Bethune will be enjoying a well deserved beer and I look forward to see him slapping the Japanese government around again in the not too distant future, and best of all pissing off the PC softcocks on KB. Pete, you're a legend!
Max Preload
10th July 2010, 14:15
When you actually use facts instead of the baseless propaganda issued by your betters I'll take you seriously. Until then I shall treat you as a kick monkey - you will dance when I kick you and amuse me when I am bored.
You're the king of baseless propaganda. My posts are verifiable fact. Sorry, you still lose.
shrub
10th July 2010, 15:23
You're the king of baseless propaganda. My posts are verifiable fact. Sorry, you still lose.
Of course I do, and don't let go of that belief.
imdying
10th July 2010, 16:51
Meanwhile, a tasty whale is turned into steaks :yes:
Max Preload
11th July 2010, 15:14
Of course I do, and don't let go of that belief.
And you just keep re-enforcing it by ignoring the facts raised.
shrub
11th July 2010, 16:43
And you just keep re-enforcing it by ignoring the facts raised.
No, I ignore the half truths, misconceptions and bullshit that the Japanese government feed the gullible and the foolish. I pay a lot of attention to facts; facts that include;
1. The IWC agreed in 1994 to make the area where Bethune operated a whale sanctuary with only Japan voting in dissension.
2. Japan have been engaged in what they call scientific whaling in the area despite protest from all other member states.
3. that scientific whaling would typically result in the slaughter of over 1000 whales.
4. No scientific organisation outside of the Japanese Institute for Cetation Research believes that more than a small number of whales need to be killed.
5. The majority of the whales killed for scientific purposes are sold as meat.
To summarise: The IWC (of which Japan is a member) agreed to make the Southern Whale Sanctuary a no go area for commercial whaling. Japan didn't want to play by the rules, so they're pretending to do scientific research which is really scientific whaling. That means they're lying to us and not playing by the rules that the international community agreed to because they are more interested in making money than preserving a resource.
MisterD
12th July 2010, 09:27
preserving a resource.
So you accept that it's a resource we're talking about then? We just need to agree to how best and most fairly to use it?
I have no problem with killing and eating whales, I just don't like the way it's done at the moment (explosive harpoons and all that).
shrub
12th July 2010, 09:38
So you accept that it's a resource we're talking about then? We just need to agree to how best and most fairly to use it?
I have no problem with killing and eating whales, I just don't like the way it's done at the moment (explosive harpoons and all that).
Absolutely. Our fisheries are depleting to the point where many have been completely exhausted and the day will come when we may well need to consider whales as a source of protein - but that won't be an option if our lovely Japanese friends have their way. It may be that judicious whale harvesting means existing fisheries can be left to regenerate.
Having said that, having done a lot of sailing in my younger days and having had fullgrown whales less than a metre from my boat on several occassions I love whales and think they are incredibly cool animals and would be much happier if we didn't eat them, but we may well need to one day. I agree with you about explosive harpoons (yet another argument against the Japanese position that their whaling is scientific).
Max Preload
12th July 2010, 14:51
No, I ignore the half truths, misconceptions and bullshit that the Japanese government feed the gullible and the foolish. I pay a lot of attention to facts; facts that include;
Clearly, you have no knowledge of the facts. Let me enlighten you.
1. The IWC agreed in 1994 to make the area where Bethune operated a whale sanctuary with only Japan voting in dissension.
And Japan are legally permitted to take whales from the sanctuary under the provisions of The Convention.
2. Japan have been engaged in what they call scientific whaling in the area despite protest from all other member states.
Which they're entitled to do, under The Convention.
3. that scientific whaling would typically result in the slaughter of over 1000 whales.
So what? There's no shortage of whales. Numbers are not in decline.
4. No scientific organisation outside of the Japanese Institute for Cetation Research believes that more than a small number of whales need to be killed.
So what? The Convention allows for it - Japan are operating within the rules.
5. The majority of the whales killed for scientific purposes are sold as meat.
The Japanese are required to utilise the animals taken for research under the provisions of The Convention.
To summarise: The IWC (of which Japan is a member) agreed to make the Southern Whale Sanctuary a no go area for commercial whaling. Japan didn't want to play by the rules, so they're pretending to do scientific research which is really scientific whaling. That means they're lying to us and not playing by the rules that the international community agreed to because they are more interested in making money than preserving a resource.
To summarise: the Japanese are acting entirely within the rules of The Convention.
Now what were you saying about me telling half-truths, you fucking hypocrite?
shrub
12th July 2010, 16:33
Now what were you saying about me telling half-truths, you fucking hypocrite?
Let me explain in simple terms. Yes, scientific whaling is permitted, because in 1987 the Japanese pushed for lethal scientific whaling as a way of establishing whether commercial whaling was feasible. This was despite protestation from many of the world's leading cetacian researchers who believed that for everything except stomach content analysis there was no need for the subjects to be killed, and that even so the number of whales killed could be confined to a few a year. Most of the data collected by the Japanese can be collected by non-lethal means because much of what they report on is age, sex and ID and are most interested in the contents of the digestive tract because one of their arguments behind resuming whaling is that the whales are damaging the commercial viability of other fisheries, and a little selective reporting allows them to build their propaganda.
But in a way you're right; they are allowed to engage in scientific whaling and are allowed to kill some of their subjects, and they very cleverly pushed for the requirement that captured whales be onsold after experiments were completed. What I have a problem with is their flagrant disregard for the spirit of the rules in that the size of their annual kill far exceeds even the most generous levels and I personally think that is unacceptable and is an example of them telling the rest of the international community (who choose to play by the rules) to bend over and assume the position, and unlike you I don't like being anyone's bitch, even the Japs.
The southern sanctuary was established to provide whales with a sanctuary, not to give Japan a nice easy hunting ground. Why is it so important to you to see this disregarded?
shrub
12th July 2010, 19:50
I've done some research, and it seems that Article 8 of the Whaling Convention permits 'scientific whaling' to be undertaken. However, given the current moratorium on commercial whaling, Japan is attempting to use scientific whaling as a loophole in order to engage in what is quite plainly commercial whaling. It is becoming increasing clear that non-lethal means of research can be legitimately and effectivelyt conducted on whales to produce almost exactly the same results that Japan is getting with it's annual slaughter. And when you look at the sheer number of whales Japan kills, they are abusing the laws that the rest of the world has to abide by simply to pander to a very small section of the population.
Given that the Australian Government after extensive evaluation of the legal position are confident that Japan is operating contrary to the law, and they will have a much better idea than both of us combined I think we can safely say that history will show Japan to have been in the wrong.
Max Preload
12th July 2010, 21:05
I really don't give a shit about any of that. The rules are the rules and Japan is operating within them as they curently stand. There's no shortage of whales and I certainly don't have any more attachment to them than I'd have to, say, the slab of cow arse I've purchased at the supermarket for dinner.
It's just a beat up over nothing. Let them eat their goddamned whales in peace.
tri boy
12th July 2010, 21:55
I blame Leonard Nimoy, aka "Spock" for hiring whales in star trek 1V, the voyage home.
Now the useless fat fucks want the spot light constantly.
Dice and fry the lard arse bugga's, and chuck that wanker Bethume in the wok too. MHO, sort of.
shrub
13th July 2010, 05:25
I really don't give a shit about any of that. The rules are the rules and Japan is operating within them as they curently stand. There's no shortage of whales and I certainly don't have any more attachment to them than I'd have to, say, the slab of cow arse I've purchased at the supermarket for dinner.
It's just a beat up over nothing. Let them eat their goddamned whales in peace.
You're 100% wrong.
1. Resolution 2007-1 of the IWC, which was passed with 40 votes in favour, 2 votes against and 1 abstention "called upon the Government of Japan to suspend indefinitely the lethal aspects of JARPA II conducted within the Southern Ocean Whale Sanctuary" noting that "none of the goals of JARPA 1 had been reached, and that the results of the JARPA 1 programme are not required for management under the RMP". http://www.iwcoffice.org/meetings/resolutions/Resolution2007-1.pdf
2. All the species currently hunted by the Japanese are officially listed as endangered by CITES, including the Antarctic Mincke (Balaenoptera bonaerensis) despite extensive lobbying by the Japanese. http://www.cites.org/eng/app/appendices.shtml
Next please.
MisterD
13th July 2010, 08:21
There's no shortage of whales and I certainly don't have any more attachment to them than I'd have to, say, the slab of cow arse I've purchased at the supermarket for dinner.
Up to a point, I agree that the argument has been over sentimentalised however that "slab of cow arse" is subject to a shed load of regulations governing it's treatment at slaughter. You are not, for instance, allowed to chase the beast around the paddock chucking spears into its back and leaving it to die of exhaustion and blood-loss (unless of course you're spanish and wearing spangly trousers).
The key point for me is that these are highly intelligent animals and it's unacceptable to kill them in the way the japs do. If there's no humane way to kill em, leave 'em alone.
shrub
13th July 2010, 09:11
Up to a point, I agree that the argument has been over sentimentalised however that "slab of cow arse" is subject to a shed load of regulations governing it's treatment at slaughter. You are not, for instance, allowed to chase the beast around the paddock chucking spears into its back and leaving it to die of exhaustion and blood-loss (unless of course you're spanish and wearing spangly trousers).
The key point for me is that these are highly intelligent animals and it's unacceptable to kill them in the way the japs do. If there's no humane way to kill em, leave 'em alone.
That's a very good point, and if Mr Tamagochi wants some meat for his sushi we can sell him some nice tasty beef. We could even call it whale and double the price for him.
imdying
13th July 2010, 09:28
I've done some researchYou need to get a life man :laugh:
Swoop
13th July 2010, 10:55
... to kill them in the way the japs do. If there's no humane way to kill em, leave 'em alone.
The words "Japs" and "humane killing" don't really go together well.
Max Preload
13th July 2010, 11:01
You're 100% wrong.
1. Resolution 2007-1 of the IWC, which was passed with 40 votes in favour, 2 votes against and 1 abstention "called upon the Government of Japan to suspend indefinitely the lethal aspects of JARPA II conducted within the Southern Ocean Whale Sanctuary" noting that "none of the goals of JARPA 1 had been reached, and that the results of the JARPA 1 programme are not required for management under the RMP". http://www.iwcoffice.org/meetings/resolutions/Resolution2007-1.pdf
Japan still retain the unalienable right of all protocol members to carry out lethal research via special permit issued by the government of the respective nation. The resolution CALLING FOR anything carries no weight. It's like me calling for you to STFU about things you clearly know nothing about - it won't stop you.
2. All the species currently hunted by the Japanese are officially listed as endangered by CITES, including the Antarctic Mincke (Balaenoptera bonaerensis) despite extensive lobbying by the Japanese. http://www.cites.org/eng/app/appendices.shtml
Next please.
I don't much care about CITES because there's no common definition to 'endangered' (it's a whimsical classification) and it's not international trade anyway so isn't covered by CITES either.
Next.
Max Preload
13th July 2010, 11:14
Up to a point, I agree that the argument has been over sentimentalised however that "slab of cow arse" is subject to a shed load of regulations governing it's treatment at slaughter. You are not, for instance, allowed to chase the beast around the paddock chucking spears into its back and leaving it to die of exhaustion and blood-loss (unless of course you're spanish and wearing spangly trousers).
The key point for me is that these are highly intelligent animals and it's unacceptable to kill them in the way the japs do. If there's no humane way to kill em, leave 'em alone.
Fair call. But I suggest you've been reading far too much propaganda from the hippies on the matter. The fact is that generally the whales are killed as quickly as circumstances allow.
The thing people are overlooking is that Japan is an IWC member by CHOICE. They could just say "Fluck you, round-eye" and withdraw then hunt as many whales as they like. Then where would the whale huggers be? Diplomacy is the only avenue open and that requires compromise. Compromise is not saying "no whaling" but people acting solely on emotion can't see that.
MisterD
13th July 2010, 12:26
Fair call. But I suggest you've been reading far too much propaganda from the hippies on the matter. The fact is that generally the whales are killed as quickly as circumstances allow.
Not really no. "As quickly as circumstances allow" just isn't good enough, if we can't do at least "instantaneous in the overwhelming majority of cases" we shouldn't be doing it at all.
shrub
13th July 2010, 12:55
Japan still retain the unalienable right of all protocol members to carry out lethal research via special permit issued by the government of the respective nation. The resolution CALLING FOR anything carries no weight. It's like me calling for you to STFU about things you clearly know nothing about - it won't stop you.
I don't much care about CITES because there's no common definition to 'endangered' (it's a whimsical classification) and it's not international trade anyway so isn't covered by CITES either.
Genuine scientific research and what the Japanese government are doing are not the same thing - it's kind of like writing Harley Davidson on the tank of a GN250; you can call it anything you like, but it's still a GN250. And of course you don't like CITES - they don't agree with you, and while I realise that the institue of Cetation Research probably do, I don't think they can be taken all that seriously.
Max Preload
13th July 2010, 22:30
Not really no. "As quickly as circumstances allow" just isn't good enough, if we can't do at least "instantaneous in the overwhelming majority of cases" we shouldn't be doing it at all.
I'm unaware of the exact nuumbers for the Japanese but the for the Norwegians which I'm sure is typical, it's a little over 50% instantaneously, with the average being 3½ minutes.
Genuine scientific research and what the Japanese government are doing are not the same thing - it's kind of like writing Harley Davidson on the tank of a GN250; you can call it anything you like, but it's still a GN250. And of course you don't like CITES - they don't agree with you, and while I realise that the institue of Cetation Research probably do, I don't think they can be taken all that seriously.
They're producing scientific papers. Who are you to say it's not genuine? I don't take any notice of CITES because the definition of 'endangered' is whimsical, as I've pointed out.
shrub
14th July 2010, 08:40
They're producing scientific papers. Who are you to say it's not genuine?
I paint Harley Davidson on the tank of my GN250 and then I take it to a HOG rally so it must be a Harley.
Of course they're going top produce scientific papers, but when Article 8 of the International Convention for the Regulation of Whaling was originally drafted over 60 years ago, many elements of scientific research into whales, such as stock identity and genetic relatedness, required the animal to be killed. However the modern techniques of genetics and DNA analysis no longer require lethal methods, therefore there is no credible rationale for the lethal take of whales to collect the data that the Japanese are using. Least of all the magnitude of the kill.
Face it mate, you've been conned by the Japanese PR machine - or you've allowed your fear of commies wanting to take your money to blight your judgement because the Greens are anti whaling, and EVERYONE knows that they're commies, so you are morally obliged to take a stand for whaling regardless of how spurious your position.
I don't take any notice of CITES because the definition of 'endangered' is whimsical, as I've pointed out.
Of course you don't - it doesn't fit with your position, but just because you don't like someone's definition doesn't mean they're wrong.
I find the Japanese definition of "scientific whaling" dishonest, as I've pointed out.
Max Preload
18th July 2010, 13:43
Face it mate, you've been conned by the Japanese PR machine - or you've allowed your fear of commies wanting to take your money to blight your judgement because the Greens are anti whaling, and EVERYONE knows that they're commies, so you are morally obliged to take a stand for whaling regardless of how spurious your position.
No. I've simply taken the position that Japan is operating entirely within all the rules that were agreed among the nations that are signatories to the International Convention on the Regulation of Whaling, which include NZ, Australia and Japan, which they are. Whereas you've taken the side of confirmed liars (we've kicked Buffoon out) who are prepared to say anything and everything in the flawed belief that the end they seek justifies the means. FAIL.
Sea Shephard remain no credibility hypocrites.
shrub
18th July 2010, 17:37
No. I've simply taken the position that Japan is operating entirely within all the rules that were agreed among the nations that are signatories to the International Convention on the Regulation of Whaling, which include NZ, Australia and Japan, which they are. Whereas you've taken the side of confirmed liars (we've kicked Buffoon out) who are prepared to say anything and everything in the flawed belief that the end they seek justifies the means. FAIL.
Sea Shephard remain no credibility hypocrites.
no, I've taken the side of the Australian government, WWF, Greenpeace and numerous other groups. But of course they're all commies, so you won't listen to them.
Max Preload
19th July 2010, 18:08
no, I've taken the side of the Australian government, WWF, Greenpeace and numerous other groups. But of course they're all commies, so you won't listen to them.
Yours, and theirs, is an entirely self-serving, and thus meaningless, view. Facts are not subject to a requirement of votes of vocal opinion in order to be verified.
shrub
19th July 2010, 20:38
Yours, and theirs, is an entirely self-serving, and thus meaningless, view. Facts are not subject to a requirement of votes of vocal opinion in order to be verified.
I see. So wanting to stop the needless slaughter of an endangered and iconic species is self serving is it? And in your worldview the fraudulent claim to be engaging in scientific research as a front for a commercial activity that would other wise not be permitted isn't self serving?
You have a very interesting perspective; or maybe you realise your position doesn't stand critical assessment so have created an alternative reality. Either way I find you amusing.
Winston001
19th July 2010, 21:10
I'm a bit perplexed about this whaling issue. Some whale species are common - or at least not endangered - while others such as the blue whale are threatened. I'm against whaling generally because its an unnecessary killing of a creature for food. There are other simpler food sources which are more numerous and down the food chain.
But here in NZ we allow the killing of wood pigeons and the taking of toheroa. Both upon the grounds of ethnic cultural practise. This rather undermines our moral stance against the Norwegians and the Japanese.....
shrub
19th July 2010, 22:03
I'm a bit perplexed about this whaling issue. Some whale species are common - or at least not endangered - while others such as the blue whale are threatened. I'm against whaling generally because its an unnecessary killing of a creature for food. There are other simpler food sources which are more numerous and down the food chain.
But here in NZ we allow the killing of wood pigeons and the taking of toheroa. Both upon the grounds of ethnic cultural practise. This rather undermines our moral stance against the Norwegians and the Japanese.....
My problem is with the commercial nature of the Japanese whaling, and their claims that it's an important part of their culture rings rather hollow because as I understand it whale only became a popular part of the japanese diet in WW2 when other sources of protein were unobtainable because they were at war with us. The majority of people in Japan who like whale meat are old, and by some coincidence very right wing.
Maybe supporting whaling is part of being a right whinger? Kind of like how a lot of right wing people love SUVs and Commodores.
And I think hiding behind the cultural thing to eat anything is silly - you don't hear a lot of Maori demanding the right to eat kuri, rats or people, yet they scoffed them down in the past. Hey, I have a cultural right to eat bears - my ancestors ate them, so I demand the right. And my ancestors owned slaves and wore swords, so I demand the right to own slaves and wear a sword in my daily business.
Max Preload
19th July 2010, 22:54
I see. So wanting to stop the needless slaughter of an endangered and iconic species is self serving is it? And in your worldview the fraudulent claim to be engaging in scientific research as a front for a commercial activity that would other wise not be permitted isn't self serving?
It's self-serving in that it makes no difference but you feel better for having done it. Just like other people do washing a car. There's no need to worry - whales are not in dedline. Nosh up, Toshi!
You have a very interesting perspective; or maybe you realise your position doesn't stand critical assessment so have created an alternative reality. Either way I find you amusing.
It's your position that doesn't stand up to assessment - it's entirely emotive with no basis in facts.
shrub
20th July 2010, 06:44
It's self-serving in that it makes no difference but you feel better for having done it. Just like other people do washing a car. There's no need to worry - whales are not in dedline. Nosh up, Toshi! It's your position that doesn't stand up to assessment - it's entirely emotive with no basis in facts.
So your paranoid fear of the red under your bed has no bearing on your position? And you believe there is no point in taking a position on anything unless you can directly impact the outcome? Let me guess, the Japanese government are immensely grateful for your support, without which they would be unable to continue with their vital scientific research into the best way to prepare whale sushi?
And "no basis in facts" simply means when you disagree with something, even though you're in the minority?
Love your work man, really i do.
shrub
25th July 2010, 13:01
and a thoroughly decent guy. It was interesting hearing his side of the story and actually talking to him about what motivated him to do what he did, from taking the Adi Gill to the southern whale sanctuary to his attempt to serve the captain of the Shonan Maru with documents.
He's not some loony eco-terrorist, just a very ordinary guy who got pissed off with the Japanese sailing 1/3 of the way around the world into waters that we're supposed to police so they can engage in a commercial operation that is falsely painted as scientific research, and he got off his arse and did something about it. He's got balls - probably one of the reasons he's so unpopular with the right whingers - having balls is an anathema to them.
Also listening to his side of the story it matched what I suspected from watching the videos and explained a lot. They had just enough fuel to get out of Antarctic waters to refuel (they're not allowed to refuel in Antarctic waters), so pulled out of the chase and were letting the Bob Barker take over before planning to head north. The Shonan Maru was a couple of kms astern and changed course to their port meaning the Adi Gill was on the starboard, and had the right of way. Shortly before it was due to pass the SM switched on the LRAD which meant none of the crew of the AG could communicate, turned on the water cannons and changed course to head directly at the AG. The engineer couldn't see out of his window because of the wall of water so he gave some power to try and move out of the way just before the SM hit them - if he had hit reverse they would have made it, but he was blind and deaf due to the SM.
Maybe he was bullshitting, but he struck me as being a straight shooter and he loved that boat with a passion and just as I wouldn't intentionally trash a bike I loved to make a point, I doubt he'd have done that. Also the AG was an incredibly effective weapon in the SSCS arsenal, so who had the most cause to want to sink it?
Naki Rat
25th July 2010, 13:42
Another point to ponder is that Japan is now in a position, in terms of not being able to sustain its own food supplies locally, that China is rapidly moving towards. The difference is that Japan doesn't have the finances to buy their way out of the problem and so trespasses and steals in order to feed itself. China's financial might is sufficient for them to be able to buy their increasing food, mineral, fuel, etc resources at source which presents a whole different set of conflicts.
Like it or not, there are way too many humans on this planet and the situation is getting worse more and more rapidly. We will see major wars for resources within our lifetimes. Pete's stand against the plundering of an endangered species was but a minor initial skirmish.
Max Preload
25th July 2010, 14:06
So your paranoid fear of the red under your bed has no bearing on your position? And you believe there is no point in taking a position on anything unless you can directly impact the outcome? Let me guess, the Japanese government are immensely grateful for your support, without which they would be unable to continue with their vital scientific research into the best way to prepare whale sushi?
Where do you get the content for your posts from? Oh, that's right - you simply pull it out of your arse. You've been shown that they're required to utilise the whales taken for research under the Convention, yet still insist they're doing it solely for commercial reasons. Despite having many hundreds of tonnes of meat already stored. Not much of a commercial operation when you can't sell enough, eh.
And "no basis in facts" simply means when you disagree with something, even though you're in the minority?
'No basis in fact' means there are no facts to support your position. Your conclusions are not valid in terms of the information available. They are purely emotive.
Love your work man, really i do.
Oh, this isn't work. It's fun.
shrub
25th July 2010, 17:56
Where do you get the content for your posts from? Oh, that's right - you simply pull it out of your arse. You've been shown that they're required to utilise the whales taken for research under the Convention, yet still insist they're doing it solely for commercial reasons. Despite having many hundreds of tonnes of meat already stored. Not much of a commercial operation when you can't sell enough, eh.
'No basis in fact' means there are no facts to support your position. Your conclusions are not valid in terms of the information available. They are purely emotive.
Oh, this isn't work. It's fun.
Yes, quite.
Winston001
25th July 2010, 22:42
The difference is that Japan doesn't have the finances to buy their way out of the problem and so trespasses and steals in order to feed itself. China's financial might is sufficient for them to be able to buy their increasing food.....
Like it or not, there are way too many humans on this planet and the situation is getting worse more and more rapidly. We will see major wars for resources within our lifetimes.
The governments of Japan, Norway, Canada, Faroe Islands, Iceland, Greenland, Indonesia, Russia and the United States all support whaling by their people. The reasons vary and there are restrictions but at it's core, the rationale is to respect cultural history. Just as we allow Maori to kill wood pigeons.
It has zero to do with food supply. Japan is one of the wealthiest nations on the planet with China far below.
You've been shown that they're required to utilise the whales taken for research under the Convention, yet still insist they're doing it solely for commercial reasons. Despite having many hundreds of tonnes of meat already stored. Not much of a commercial operation when you can't sell enough, eh.
In fact the Japanese have been known to dump whale meat because there is so little demand for it. Japanese whaling is an ideology: "We used to do it so we will carry on. We won't let other nations tell us what to do".
Just like New Zealand has refused nuclear powered ships and denied nuclear technology, irrational as that really is. Mindless ideology has a lot to answer for.
Woodman
1st April 2014, 17:26
Fuck you Japan....:laugh::laugh:
JimO
1st April 2014, 18:43
whats sea shepherd going to do now??
oldrider
1st April 2014, 19:21
Bethune made a choice, took a stance, now he simply has to take reponsibility and be accountable for his actions not everybody see's it the way he does!
Personally I think he was wrong and did his cause a lot of unessessary damage through his illegal (seafaring) behaviour but his choice! :o
A bit like the anti smoking campaign I didn't agree the way they did that but I am pleased with the outcome!
Bethune didn't really make any positive contribution to the outcome but he is now pleased with himself and feels obviously justified! :innocent:? ... :no: ... :weird: ... :yes:
As for the "trial" ... a bit dodgy but I am still quietly pleased with the outcome! :niceone:
puddytat
1st April 2014, 20:41
Full credit to Bethune, Watson, Sea Shepard, Greenpeace , WWF, to the world wide public damnation of Whaling ,& to Australia to start the court proceedings we were to scared to.
Fuck you Japan & I hope you have the Honour to respect the decision.
Please continue with trading with us & cleaning up your shit.
imdying
2nd April 2014, 09:53
Fuck that he's a terrorist and should have been tortured and killed by the Japanese.
rustyrobot
2nd April 2014, 10:02
whats sea shepherd going to do now??
Focus on shark-finning hopefully.
Katman
2nd April 2014, 10:07
Focus on shark-finning hopefully.
That and WA's retarded shark cull.
Indiana_Jones
2nd April 2014, 11:04
So is NZ and Aus going to harrass Norway and Iceland now?
-Indy
Woodman
2nd April 2014, 17:11
whats sea shepherd going to do now??
All fishing in the antarctic region...........
puddytat
2nd April 2014, 20:34
So is NZ and Aus going to harrass Norway and Iceland now?
-Indy
Nah Bro.....the Europeons will sort them.
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