The failings behind the Suzuki MotoGP project

[Cleve]

Interesting read... http://www.visordown.com/features/the-failings-behind-the-suzuki-motogp-project/12637.html

[Cleve]

So what will Suzuki do when MotoGP returns to 1000cc. Go back to inline 4 or stick with V4

[javawocky]

Sounds like Suzuki's motogp hopes are kind of screwed from the article. They haven't got the huge technical backing of Honda F1 to help them out with extra power.

Was thinking about this one the way home, the GSXR 1000 is probably made for the thrill of it, the rocket power to get the average road user excited. Smooth power delivery is far less important than the liner delivery required by a MotoGP bike to come out of corners fast.

With the WSB lap times not far off the MotoGP times for the Suzuki, it would be tempting for them to chuck out the cluncky old V4 and shove a shinny worked Gixxer engine in.

[ajturbo]

they should have brought Buell

[eelracing]

Power has never been a problem with the thous (in fact too much was the problem) getting it to the ground is the real problem.

Fixing that and getting a half decent rider with the will and hunger to win is the key to Suzuki's woes i reckon.

[Taz]

They should just give up?

[Crasherfromwayback]

Poor in another 50 million so they can finish just inside of the top ten!

But no...admit defeat with the v4, and build a fuck off inline 4.

[DEATH_INC.]

No, as they said, motogp is VERY different to WSBK, a gixxer engine wouldn't cut it. What they need to do is team up with one of the other F1 engine builders.

[Crasherfromwayback]

No, as they said, motogp is VERY different to WSBK, a gixxer engine wouldn't cut it. What they need to do is team up with one of the other F1 engine builders.

Yeah it's all very well saying that...but when your GSXR1000 superbike laps Assen at nearly the same pace as your 'GP' bike...kinda sounds like bullshit. And the superbike ain't even fully factory backed. Are they trying to say that if the Superbike had neumatic valves and made another lets say...20hp and was lighter that it wouldn't cut it with the GSVR? I say bullshit.

[slowpoke]

Yeah it's all very well saying that...but when your GSXR1000 superbike laps Assen at nearly the same pace as your 'GP' bike...kinda sounds like bullshit. And the superbike ain't even fully factory backed. Are they trying to say that if the Superbike had neumatic valves and made another lets say...20hp and was lighter that it wouldn't cut it with the GSVR? I say bullshit.

Yep, hard to argue with that argument. It all comes back to how much each manufacturer is prepared to allocate to a MotoGP project, but Ducati are the smallest manufacturer yet have punched far above their weight, really putting the acid on the Suzuki effort.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Yep, hard to argue with that argument. It all comes back to how much each manufacturer is prepared to allocate to a MotoGP project, but Ducati are the smallest manufacturer yet have punched far above their weight, really putting the acid on the Suzuki effort.

They (Ducati) also stuck with technology they new best. Desmodronics...and adding 2 cyl to their already good v twin wasn't hard. Suzuki should just suck it up and build an all new inline four.

Certainly works well for Yamaha.

[Mental Trousers]

You guys must've missed the bit where they said the V4 wasn't far off Yamaha's inline.

MotoGP is as much about technical backing and resources as it is about the bikes. Suzuki don't have it where the Honda and Yamaha do. Ducati has genius (both in the lead designer and rider), but I think their parent company have links with the Benetton F1 team so they're able to obtain technical advice from them.

[KS34]

This really boils my blood!!
They drop WSBK the very year they can grab the title, and put their money into the pit called MotoGp. I am Dyed in the wool suzuki.... born that way, I can not see the benefit in Suzuki being in MotoGp when they are so poor at it, did they think the GSXR was soooo good they could get a private team to run it without development and it would still clean up! ARHHHHHHHHHHHH the veins are starting to show gotta go..........

[Crasherfromwayback]

You guys must've missed the bit where they said the V4 wasn't far off Yamaha's inline.

MotoGP is as much about technical backing and resources as it is about the bikes. Suzuki don't have it where the Honda and Yamaha do. Ducati has genius (both in the lead designer and rider), but I think their parent company have links with the Benetton F1 team so they're able to obtain technical advice from them.

Nope. Read it all good and proper! But if they think their v4 is close to Yamaha's inline 4...they're well and truly fucked.

[Cleve]

Yeah it's all very well saying that...but when your GSXR1000 superbike laps Assen at nearly the same pace as your 'GP' bike...kinda sounds like bullshit. And the superbike ain't even fully factory backed. Are they trying to say that if the Superbike had neumatic valves and made another lets say...20hp and was lighter that it wouldn't cut it with the GSVR? I say bullshit.

PLUS the Bridgestones instead of the Pirelli's and those alone would do at least 1 - 2 seconds a lap better surely...

[denill]

MotoGP has already lost Kawasaki and if Suzuki went too (and with their performance, why not?) - it sorta shoots the series down in flames

I know that neither of those Maques were challenging at the pointy end but it is about the anticipation of - maybe they will pull something out of the hat, soon.

Not good for MotoGP :shit:

[roogazza]

MotoGP has already lost Kawasaki and if Suzuki went too (and with their performance, why not?) - it sorta shoots the series down in flames

I know that neither of those Maques were challenging at the pointy end but it is about the anticipation of - maybe they will pull something out of the hat, soon.

Not good for MotoGP :shit:

Be a bit sad to see Bill, depends if we have hit the bottom yet ? Moto2 style seems the way we're heading. G.

[javawocky]

Would be fun to have a bike lottery at each round. Randomly match rider to bike. Sorry Rossi, you get the Suzi this weekend...

[pritch]

The Suzuki V4s may be a bit of a dog but they were the hottest sounding bikes on the track. Even better than the RC211V, 212V or the Ducati.

Hard to know why Suzuki bother with MotoGP though, such huge expense for such little return.
On the other hand, if they pulled out the "premier" class grids would be looking positively anorexic.

[Crasherfromwayback]

I agree. It sounds real nasty in the best possible way. Really gruff and angry.

[denill]

Be a bit sad to see Bill, depends if we have hit the bottom yet ? Moto2 style seems the way we're heading. G.

Yeah, scarily the way we're heading Gaz................

Really there's only three makes now. Lose another couple and ya got a Moto 2 Scenario. :shit:

[roogazza]

Yeah, scarily the way we're heading Gaz................

Really there's only three makes now. Lose another couple and ya got a Moto 2 Scenario. :shit:

As young fella I followed Phil Read and Bill Ivy in mags of the time, when they rode V4 250s. I think it was 1968 when they had it to themselves after Honda pulled the plug on Hailwood and he went to cars?
But life goes on and it came good again. (I'm trying to think positive here) G.

[Cleve]

As young fella I followed Phil Read and Bill Ivy in mags of the time, when they rode V4 250s. I think it was 1968 when they had it to themselves after Honda pulled the plug on Hailwood and he went to cars?
But life goes on and it came good again. (I'm trying to think positive here) G.

YES - GOOD POINT. There are cycles with highs and lows. Never a final solution or "the anwser" - a never ending process of development and change...

[Crasherfromwayback]

No, as they said, motogp is VERY different to WSBK, a gixxer engine wouldn't cut it. What they need to do is team up with one of the other F1 engine builders.

At Laguna Seca this weekend... 1st practice.

Capirossi on the Moto GP bike 1:24.710

Tommy Hayden on the Suzuki Superbike 1:24.98

And the AMA Superbikes are slugs.

Still think Suzuki couldn't build a hotrod GSXR to at least go another .3 sec faster?

[steveyb]

I'm not sure if it is me looking at them knowing that they are going slower than the rest, but some of the shots from Laguna are quite telling.
The two Suzuki riders seem either incapable or unwilling to actually attack the circuit in the same ways that riders on the other bikes seem to.
They very much seem to just sit on top of the bikes and ride them around and if they have a stuff up they seem unable to ride through the stuff up and carry on, they have to pull out and start again.
Near the start of the GSV-R iteration it was one of the best handling bikes with a slow engine. Now the thing is a dog all over.
Throw the GSV-R fairings on Haslams WSBK bike, turn up a real loud recording of it and no one will notice the difference, except it will probably go faster!!

[Wingnut]

At Laguna Seca this weekend... 1st practice.

Capirossi on the Moto GP bike 1:24.710

Tommy Hayden on the Suzuki Superbike 1:24.98

And the AMA Superbikes are slugs.

Still think Suzuki couldn't build a hotrod GSXR to at least go another .3 sec faster?

The difference in the lines that would be required to be taken on a Superbike as opposed to a GP bike would cause chaos... Probably good from a spectators point of view though.

[Crasherfromwayback]

The difference in the lines that would be required to be taken on a Superbike as opposed to a GP bike would cause chaos... Probably good from a spectators point of view though.

You've missed my point totally mate.

[denill]

Vermuelen, who has been much maligned for his campaign on the Rizla Suzuki should be reassured by the current lack of success they are currently having.

I personally have a lot of time for him, and hey, he put then on the box and not only in the wet.

Vermuelen may not be a Rossi, but he is much better than his results indicate. :yes: :yes:

[merv]

This is a fascinating story and there is probably far more than meets the eye going on behind the scenes. Its probably got a lot to do with the total package. Sure its always hard to beat Honda as an engine maker and when the RC211V first came along Rossi was able to make that bike look perfect from the get go. Everyone said oh they've got five cylinders, so Kenny Roberts tried to build his own five - got nowhere with it.

Where was Yamaha then with Max & co? Off to Yamaha goes Rossi and what, he won first time out on it didn't he?

It does always seem rather strange that the GSX-R is a fast bike generally speaking and the GSV-R is a dog. Maybe in real terms their engine isn't that bad so maybe it is a rider of Rossi's calibre and a team boss of Burgess's calibre that they are truly missing. Guys that can make a dog into a cheetah, matching engine and frame to the rider for a totally fast package.

I'm no Suzuki fan so don't really have any connection to their effort but the point has been made before it would be a shame to see the MotoGP grids shrink to less than they are now as we all hope this is the low ebb now and that the recession is clearing.

[speedracerjimmy]

they just need to hire better riders, only thing is the good guys are taken so nobody else will really do any better than the guys they got now anyway.even if the bike was the best one out there