Price of trail rides?

[browny]

hey guys and gals. curious to know how much you trail riders are payin,(outside of canterbury).grenville button,aka suzuki trails has decided to up the price to fifty dollars,which i think stinks.it was forty and dear enough at that .to travel to a ride is in the area of two hundy with fuel and all costs counted.im sure he's got costs but when he takes half of about 15k its hard to be sympathetic to his cause,especially when hes putting our hobby out of reach.most of my mates have boycotted him but theres noone else and he knows it.interested in your comments

[little.whittle]

$25 to $30 is the going rate for the Mr Motorcycles and Power rides

[browny]

$25 to $30 is the going rate for the Mr Motorcycles and Power rides
which is about where it should be i think

[tommorth]

25-30 no way I would pay 50 bucks wouldn't pay 40 for a trail ride ether

The two man up at the farm this weekend is a bloody good deal 60bucks ride all day saturday pitch your tent and race sunday ... Wish i'd known about it a week ago .

[Ktmboy]

$25 to $30 is the going rate for the Mr Motorcycles and Power rides

Ehh. You show me a Power ride for $25 and I'll not only eat my undies but yours as well.

In response the first post, peeps shouldn't really be speculating on how much $$ a promotors take is.

MR Motorcycles for example are charity rides and farm owners donate their land for next to nix. Others have to pay land owners.

So out of his 15k he has to pay for Toilets, St John, land owners, advertising,
Insurances (this is getting huge), staff, the list goes on.

Not only that but for us it takes about 10 working days for 2-3 guys to make a track (probably not that hard in the Mainland or on farmland) and then another two days to re instate it. This includes a full two days on a tractor grading roads and farm tracks to return the venue to a better than started condition. So someone has to get paid along the way.

Clubs are different as they have lots of volunteers but everyone has their limit as to how many hours they can contribute.
$50 does sound up there though.

[Jay GTI]

$45 for the Epic Events stuff, or $80 for both days on 2 day rides, which I think is fair for the amount of effort that goes into setting up the trails and managing the events on the day. Plus I used to go to school with Nick Reader about a million years ago, so I'm happy to put coin in his pocket.

If it's a smaller event (Power, Mr Motorcycles, Waitemata etc) I think $30 is fair. Certainly for $50 I'd be expecting someone to clean my bike for me afterwards...:gob:

[Ktmboy]

25-30 no way I would pay 50 bucks wouldn't pay 40 for a trail ride ether

The two man up at the farm this weekend is a bloody good deal 60bucks ride all day saturday pitch your tent and race sunday ... Wish i'd known about it a week ago .

Yes, but thats the farm though.
They own the venue and it doesn't cost them to put the event on. Add $20 per rider for the venue fee and the it starts add $$. Remember also that alot of these rides have no insurances and they will get caught out one day when there is a fatality and the Dept of Labour come snooping.

[browny]

Ehh. You show me a Power ride for $25 and I'll not only eat my undies but yours as well.

In response the first post, peeps shouldn't really be speculating on how much $$ a promotors take is.

MR Motorcycles for example are charity rides and farm owners donate their land for next to nix. Others have to pay land owners.

So out of his 15k he has to pay for Toilets, St John, land owners, advertising,
Insurances (this is getting huge), staff, the list goes on.

Not only that but for us it takes about 10 working days for 2-3 guys to make a track (probably not that hard in the Mainland or on farmland) and then another two days to re instate it. This includes a full two days on a tractor grading roads and farm tracks to return the venue to a better than started condition. So someone has to get paid along the way.

Clubs are different as they have lots of volunteers but everyone has their limit as to how many hours they can contribute.
$50 does sound up there though.
interesting to hear from somone on the inside of the set up process.how much and why the insurances,we sign our lives away at the gate and public liabilty is jack all as i understand it.as faras speculating how he making,why not hes being greedy.im aware that most if not all are fund raisers and im more than happy to contibute,but he takes half of the earnings which i also have a problem with.if its to be 50 bucks so be it, more to the charity but not in to his pocket

[barty5]

Yes, but thats the farm though.
They own the venue and it doesn't cost them to put the event on. Add $20 per rider for the venue fee and the it starts add $$. Remember also that alot of these rides have no insurances and they will get caught out one day when there is a fatality and the Dept of Labour come snooping.

The $60 also covers your accommodation for the saturday night as well so given that it $20 a day to ride there makes it only $20 for the race added in to it not bad $$ really

[Ktmboy]

interesting to hear from somone on the inside of the set up process.how much and why the insurances,we sign our lives away at the gate and public liabilty is jack all as i understand it.

Yes it is jack shit. But we have to have it. It really only covers legal costs and not the $$ you will sue us for as we are deemed to have provided an unsafe environment. The fact that you are actually controlling the throttle and in charge of your own destiny could be over looked.

Accidents do happen and most are avoidable. There was one on the news tonight regarding the bridge jump fatality. He got 400 hours community service and 10k fine.

That is tiny compared to what the Labour Dept will fine him for. It will reach 6 figures.
If he didn't have insurance for representation it would be a very large 6 figures.

[Ktmboy]

The $60 also covers your accommodation for the saturday night as well so given that it $20 a day to ride there makes it only $20 for the race added in to it not bad $$ really

Its the farm...life is simple up there. No motorway traffic, just the lasy moo of cows every morning. It doesn't cost Mike a cent for you to camp over. try that in Clevedon or Coatsville.
Its horses for courses.

[barty5]

Its the farm...life is simple up there. No motorway traffic, just the lasy moo of cows every morning. It doesn't cost Mike a cent for you to camp over. try that in Clevedon or Coatsville.
Its horses for courses.

No it dosnt but it is a business they running. No point in being in business if you dont charge for it bit like thunder park dont cost them much to run that park either given the state of the track half the time but they still charge. Not that i have ever complained about the cost of any ride i have been on.

[flyingcr250]

at the end of the day if its a place i like to ride at , then ill pay the money. if the epic events or the off limits rides were $50-$60 a day id still go, simply because they are very well run, and offer something different to most other trailrides, we still have it pretty good in this country in terms of places to ride and the prices they charge, my mate was living in the U.K and he reckons the average trailride costs 100 pounds,

[Ktmboy]

No it dosnt but it is a business they running. No point in being in business if you dont charge for it bit like thunder park dont cost them much to run that park either given the state of the track half the time but they still charge. Not that i have ever complained about the cost of any ride i have been on.

Jeez barty your missing the point:bash::bash: Mikes 20 bucks is all profit. He does have to pay $15 per rider to the land owner or $500 for toilets or Insurances or any of the other outlays.

Lucky him.

[Jay GTI]

my mate was living in the U.K and he reckons the average trailride costs 100 pounds,

That's if you can even find a decent one. I was there last year and there was one trail riding place I could get to without driving for hours and it was only open once every couple of months. Plenty of mx tracks, but I'm not into mx. We are utterly spoilt for trail riding in this country and it's this that was 80% of reason why I came back.

[Ktmboy]

at the end of the day if its a place i like to ride at , then ill pay the money. if the epic events or the off limits rides were $50-$60 a day id still go, simply because they are very well run, and offer something different to most other trailrides, we still have it pretty good in this country in terms of places to ride and the prices they charge, my mate was living in the U.K and he reckons the average trailride costs 100 pounds,

I think you will find that this season ride prices will increase due to the rise in GST.

[flyingcr250]

I think you will find that this season ride prices will increase due to the rise in GST.

but the tax cuts will offset that ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

[tommorth]

but the tax cuts will offset that ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
cue tui add!

Tony I was only mentioning the farm ride as its pretty bloody cheap for what you get . I don't think anyone on here is has the misconception that running trail rides is a good way to get rich . Most of us are aware of the amount of time and effort that goes into most of the rides we do, and its much apreciated by those that attend.

50 bucks still seems a rort unles its something exra special.

If I had to pay the prices they pay in the UK for trail rides I would move to a better country.

[takitimu]

Yes, but thats the farm though.
They own the venue and it doesn't cost them to put the event on. Add $20 per rider for the venue fee and the it starts add $$. Remember also that alot of these rides have no insurances and they will get caught out one day when there is a fatality and the Dept of Labour come snooping.

Agreed in costs, though to be clear the farm race is covered by full insurance ( it's the bike club insurance policy ), we've got good coverage to cover forest events.

Dept of labour, osh, acc. There are a few starting to make noises I hear.

To the OP, 25-35 up here, 50 is to much for a trail ride IMHO.

[takitimu]

The club insurance was way more than 500 :), part of the race fee will be going towards that.

But Tony is right, the accommodation is basically not costing mike anything and he has no other additional costs, the course was done already by the nields and he just wants an event and to have fun.

The commercial guys have alot tougher road, interesting the time you put in Tony, our last one was one day recce, one day setup, but like 10 guys 4 quads and one was the land owners son/nephew ( 2 farms ), we made jack shit on the ride as only got 40 people, if we had paid anyone it'd have been a loss.
Though a ride on the paddocks is a breeze compared to the trees, that takes a heap of work in there.

[warewolf]

$25-$30 is pretty cheap, that's what it was 10 years ago. Price of fuel and insurance are two big expenses that have increased a lot in that time.

browny, why don't you organise your own commercial trail ride? You'll soon see if he's gouging or just trying to limit his losses.

[Reckless]

at the end of the day if its a place i like to ride at , then ill pay the money. if the epic events or the off limits rides were $50-$60 a day id still go,

That's not the same for a lot of us! Especially if you have kids to pay for as well! I know a couple of people I ride with here (plus me) that don't or won't pay $40 and go to the sandpit instead if there is nothing on but a Powers ride on (similar riding). I reckon there'd be quite a few making the same decision.
Ktm boy would probably know if numbers are down when there's a Mr Moto ride on and if there down the same when there's a Powers ride on? Mind you he might not want to let Powers know that if he dropped is price $10 bucks a rider he'd get all us that go to the sandpit instead. LOL!!!!

I wouldn't pay $50! ANd when I was paying for the kids as well I defiantly would go!!! That would be up to $250-300 for a family day out with three kids! Bugger that!!!

[scott411]

Different Rides have different Cost structures, as KTMboy wrote above the rides we run are Chartiy based, therefore we do not pay for land, so we can run them cheaper, also the fact that it is done as a promotion for the shop means i write off a lot of expenses through the shop, again subsidising the cost for the rider.

the organisers that do it as a job have a completly different set of costs and restrictions to work with,

i do not believe charging $50 for a trail ride makes the guy a rip off merchant, i think that is still very cheap on a world scale, the fact that a lot of work goes unpaid in the running of most motorcycle events subsidises the costs hugely, and that's racing and trail riding,

And also putting the price up is sometimes a business decision, although you get less riders you make a similar amount with less stress, running a 800-1000 rider trail ride is pretty stressful. if you put the price up $10 and make the same amount of money with 400 riders it makes sense.

[Danger]

And also putting the price up is sometimes a business decision, although you get less riders you make a similar amount with less stress, running a 800-1000 rider trail ride is pretty stressful. if you put the price up $10 and make the same amount of money with 400 riders it makes sense.


That would be my thoughts, in some cases these rides will probably use price to limit the amount of riders. Doesn't seem that long ago that trail rides were only $20.00. The arrival of the modern 4 $troke has bought a lot of new riders into the sport of trail riding. If riding is your only sporting outlet it makes things tough for the punter. If you have other sporting interests a $50.00 entry fee saved along with the other expenses can go a loonnng way in other sports.

[B0000M]

on the GST thing, id bet that most of the trail ride cash that comes in at these rides doesnt get to see the books- why would you???

sure put some through, but who's to say how many people came and paid what in cash?



my view on whats a fair price is $30 for your average trail, or $40 incl a farm lunch

ill pay more for the likes of a epic event or the tussock buster , as a SHITLOAD of prep is put into these, and theres always heaps of tracks and huge distances to cover. theres no way id be paying more than $1 a km of trail though which some trails seem to expect of you

[Keithf]

While $50 might be a bit steep I reckon it is actually pretty cheap entertainment or 5 or 6 hours riding in terms of value for money.


Try going to the movies, out for a decent meal, or a rugby game with decent seats and see how much it costs.

I am also in the camp that is quite happy to see trail ride organisers , whether they be a charity or someone making a business out of putting on trail rides getting a fair return for their effort.

[Midget200]

While $50 might be a bit steep I reckon it is actually pretty cheap entertainment or 5 or 6 hours riding in terms of value for money.


Try going to the movies, out for a decent meal, or a rugby game with decent seats and see how much it costs.

I am also in the camp that is quite happy to see trail ride organisers , whether they be a charity or someone making a business out of putting on trail rides getting a fair return for their effort.

I hear that the Tadpole is going to be $50 for 1 1/2 hours without a license and the Toad $60! Is that right?

[Rupe]

The cheaper the ride the better, so $50 is right up there.

One thing that does piss me off is if you go to a trial ride that is shit, and it's clear that minimum effort was put in. This is not only a waste of money, but valuble time.

[Rupe]

I hear that the Tadpole is going to be $50 for 1 1/2 hours without a license and the Toad $60! Is that right?

someone got the racing bug??? haha you looked amped after the 2man!

I think it was a little cheaper on the wmcc website.

[B0000M]

you can expect racing to cost more. theres club supplies to buy- flags etc, first aid to pay for, trophies, prize money at some events, lap scoring- be it on paper or with an electronic system - those AMB electronic lap scoring systems cost about $13000, just for the device that plugs into the computer. you then need to get a computer, generator, and then theres the transponders

[Brainflex]

If I had to pay the prices they pay in the UK for trail rides I would move to a better country.
I did!
In the UK trail riding is free! There is a network of legal rights of way (RUPP road used as public path n BOAT byway open to all traffic) which are used for trail riding. However a large number of these are being closed by the UK government. There is very little in the way of organised trail rides, most people enter a hare n hound race, that is the nearest to trail riding as NZers know it. The cost of this is in the region of 100-150 dollars NZ. This gets em 2 - 3 hours racing. If they are lucky the circuit is upto 15km long really lucky for anything longer.

[Keithf]

well if it is a crap ride don't bother going back. The well organised rides get people going along those that aren't well interest fades after a while Word gets around regarding what is worth going to and what isn't



The cheaper the ride the better, so $50 is right up there.

One thing that does piss me off is if you go to a trial ride that is shit, and it's clear that minimum effort was put in. This is not only a waste of money, but valuble time.

[browny]

cheers all for your thoughts.it seems that most agree 50 bucks is steep,especialy when most if not all land owners down here give there fee back to the charity and he only has one or two people with him, the rest of the help is donated by the fund raisers. hes making more than he should from somone eles charity.noone could blame for making a bit off it ,but 5-7k for acouple of days is over top ithink.but my bleeting wont change a thing and dont hav time or resources to organise my own ride.cheers

[warewolf]

go to the sandpit instead if there is nothing on but a Powers ride on (similar riding).When I was in AKL I'd go to the sandpit once a month, and go to an organised ride/race elsewhere once a month. I'd go a long way and pay extra to avoid riding at the same-old same-old sandpit and get out on some different tracks & terrain... eg Matata or Tokoroa, or even a Power Adventures ride in another part of Woodhill. I see organised rides (expensive or not) in otherwise inaccessible areas as a worthy endeavour.

I think scott411 nailed it. At the risk of sounding rude, I'd add that if there is a gap between what it costs to go to an event and what you can afford, that's not necessarily the fault of the organiser, no indication if his take covers his costs, and not a reason he should reduce his prices. Sorry but that's life. If he doesn't get enough people prepared to pay, then he'll likely have to give it up... our loss, too. Again, that's life. Unless he feels like giving away his own money to run trail rides for the rest of us...

Motorcycling is an expensive hobby - and is not alone.

[oldguy]

Its still cheap, as KTMboy has said, there is a lot goes into these rides. I also have a road bike, which over summer i do alot of road riding, but its nice to go to the track at times. Try doing trackdays (Road Bike) $180 - $200 + if i drop the bike, even low speed can be very expensive.
but im happy to pay its cheaper that a fine, and losing my licence.
Im not Rich and have money falling out of my pocket.

I cant do all, but try to support as I can afford.

[Ktmboy]

you can expect racing to cost more. theres club supplies to buy- flags etc, first aid to pay for, trophies, prize money at some events, lap scoring- be it on paper or with an electronic system - those AMB electronic lap scoring systems cost about $13000, just for the device that plugs into the computer. you then need to get a computer, generator, and then theres the transponders

Haha quite right Boooom. Bastards eat all of our 300 sausages at the Two man. Costs will be rising as a result. I'm sure they only came for the free feed LOL.

[Reckless]

Haha quite right Boooom. Bastards eat all of our 300 sausages at the Two man. Costs will be rising as a result. I'm sure they only came for the free feed LOL.

What there where sausages?? Bugger!
Damn those Jelly Beans where a bloody life saver mate!!
Stuck my hand in and grabbed as many as my big mit could take!! Cheers mate they where great!!!

[clmintie]

Hey Tony, I reckon you've created a near perfect balance of competition/fun at your events, such a lot of happy people. As a taker of snaps can I just say "WOOHOO" to the use of numbers on all sides of all bikes, it cut at least 8hrs off my processing/hunting time.......

[Paul in NZ]

the wonderful thing about living here in gods own country is that you are free to pursue a dream relatively unhindered....

If you think its a rip off, perhaps others feel the same way and thus there is an opportunity or someone else to step into the fray and provide an alternative. its not that hard surely? get a few mates together.... worst that will happen is you will find out $50 is a bargain... but then you might make a few bucks too... give it a go...

[Kickaha]

When I go circuit racing I will pay anywhere from $50 for a club event to over $300 for a National event, I will get anywhere from 45 minutes to 100 minutes track time

When I do a trail ride for $30-$50 dollars I get several hours of riding time and get to ride a lot of places I wouldn't normally have access to

I don't think it's actually that expensive for what you get

[Ktmboy]

Yeah I'm with you Kickaha,

its all about the adventure and having an experience. If you can't afford to ride dirt bikes then don't do it. After all its the cheapest motor sport available in NZ.

If $$ is your problem then take up another hobby.

[camchain]

Huge effort goes into organising these things and you can't set foot out of front door without spending money. Greg Power charges $40, but it's living so he can charge what he feels is right. Lower cost means more punters though I reckon.

Groceries are too dear though - you can carry $150 worth of food in one hand. $50 just isn't a lot of money these days.

[chrisktm]

Try riding in another country and then complain about fifty bucks for a trail ride! I lived in the UK for a year or so. Ninety pounds for a crap crap crap ride! Riding bikes in NZ is super cheap, we pay less than a lot of countrys for bikes and parts (ignoring USA of course) and the level of our trail rides would blow every country I have ridden in out of the water!

[random rider]

Yeah I'm with you Kickaha,

its all about the adventure and having an experience. If you can't afford to ride dirt bikes then don't do it. After all its the cheapest motor sport available in NZ.

If $$ is your problem then take up another hobby.


I don't smoke...don't drink that much (by most of my friends standards :Punk: ) but love to ride my bike.
I put money aside for running costs, repairs ( must learn to stay on the bike more) and also for the events inc riding at sandpit.

I agree - if you can't afford it don't do it. I would love to ride more but I can't drop work or the cash each time so I just do what I can and then pray I get a pay rise soon :innocent:

If you have a family it can be expensive but then it is a choice to ride - don't winge about it if you chose to do this as a sport/hobby.

Keep up the good work KTMboy and Scott411 :Punk:

[secondfield]

Jeez, you buggers are just encouraging them too put up the prices. I think 50 bucks is wrong - conisdering we live in the most heavily taxed, lowest income country in the 1st world ...

[takitimu]

Jeez, you buggers are just encouraging them too put up the prices. I think 50 bucks is wrong - conisdering we live in the most heavily taxed, lowest income country in the 1st world ...

Close to lowest income maybe, but most heavily taxed not even close, UK taxes are going to 50% top + 20% VAT ( that probably doesn't include the National Health levy the name of which I forget & the BBC tax ), we'll remain under Aussies tax rates after the next tax cut as well, I think you'll find instead of the most heavily, we are actually one of the lower taxed countries.

Besides, as Birchy pointed out the level of Trail Rides in NZ blows away the rest of the world & it's cheap as nuts. It's a real problem actually, in many ways I'd like to wander back overseas next year, but giving up the riding in NZ would be damn tough.

[warewolf]

conisdering we live in the most heavily taxed, lowest income country in the 1st world ...Yeah but it's quite a socialist country. Fer instance, if you stack your bike at said trail ride, ACC (in theory) takes care of you. Most other places worldwide you'd have to have your own expensive private health and income protection insurance. Health & welfare in this country are pretty good, comparatively. eg free healthcare for under 2's including while they are still in the womb.

Didn't Mr Key recently point out that someone earning 50K with a wife & 2 kids would effectively pay only $1500 tax, after Working For Families Tax Credits? Doesn't sound like a heavy tax burden. If they also put $1040 in to KiwiSaver the govt will match it, which means they really only paid $500 tax!!! 1%... not a lot.

[secondfield]

Dont be mugs, you sound like the mum who quietly ignores the abuse of her children because 'oooh at least we aren't getting screwed by the govt AS BAD as those poor pommie buggers'. One thing about us kiwis is we are a bit apathetic and we dont see the woods for the trees. Look at this shit -

Accounts Receivable Tax
> Airline surcharge tax
> Airline Fuel Tax
> Airport Maintenance Tax
> Building Permit Tax
> Cigarette Tax
> Corporate Income Tax
> Death Tax
> Dog License Tax
> Driving Permit Tax
> Environmental Tax (Fee)
> Excise Taxes
> Local Body Tax
> Unemployment (UI)
> Fishing License Tax
> Food License Tax
> Gasoline Tax (too much per litre)
> Gross Receipts Tax
> Health Tax
> Hunting License Tax
> Hydro Tax
> Inheritance Tax
> Interest Tax
> Liquor Tax
> Luxury Taxes
> Marriage License Tax

> Divorce License Tax
> Medicare Tax
> Mortgage Tax
> Personal Income Tax
> Property Tax
> Poverty Tax
> Prescription Drug Tax
> Provincial Income and sales tax
> Real Estate Tax
> Recreational Vehicle Tax
> Retail Sales Tax
> Service Charge Tax
> School Tax
> Telephone Tax
> Telephone , Provincial and Local Surcharge Taxes
> Telephone Minimum Usage Surcharge Tax
> Vehicle License Registration Tax
> Vehicle Sales Tax
> Water Tax
> Watercraft Registration Tax
> Well Permit Tax
> Workers Compensation Tax
> ETS
> GST

Sick yet?

Not one of these taxes existed 100 years ago, & our nation was one of the
most prosperous in the world. We had absolutely no national debt, had a large middle class, and a parent stayed home to raise the kids.

The other choices in Politics are not much better (Labour, blah blah etc) what with ETS, employment legislation and the farting cow debacle.

Soon, a tax pending (ETS) that is based on dodgy science and 94% of kiwis say NO to the people we pay to look after us. Do they listen? fuck off. Gosh dont our great ' leaders' ever have inspiration or vision for our nation?. Do us big fat FAVOUR for once? No, they laugh at us thinking that WE think these Ex Bankers, Lawyers and ego maniacs have a any sort of vision for our nation?

Instead of saying 'well at least we dont have to pay for that' and quietly scuttling away to a safe little haven and wishing tommorow was just like yesterday, stand up and say THESE PRICKS ARE RIPPING US OFF :angry:

Maybe we deserve a communist govt, with a bit of luck the chinese will deploy armed guards here to safeguard the land we sold them 20 years ago? ...as long as we can play with our toys, seek pleasure at will, watch our kids debt themselves heavily for a privatised half assed tertiary education and effectively bury our heads in the sand things will stay the same ..... wont they?

If you compare our minimum wage and the value of our dollar in the first world (UK/AUS/USA) then we don't measure up. Never defend Politicians, they are liars, cheats and smiling assasins.

End of Rant :yes:

I still think 50 notes is a bit excessive for a 'farmy' type trail ride. Id pay 40 buck probably, if there were a few good hills, flowing farmland, a bit of mud and shit, roots, stepups a touch of sand too possibly.. :shifty:

[takitimu]

...
Not one of these taxes existed 100 years ago, & our nation was one of the
most prosperous in the world. We had absolutely no national debt, had a large middle class, and a parent stayed home to raise the kids.
....
End of Rant :yes:


Mmmm, the good old days of unlimited agricultural access to UK & no EU tariffs, combined with some subsidies ( SMP ) to help out, the problem was we relied on Ag for to long then decided to go hitech, forgetting we already were hitech in ag & only now getting a balance, don't get me started on the stupidity of F&P / Navman, at least Tindell has a decent fund going. We insist on our own Stock Exchange ( against all rational reason ) & then join our two big Dairy Companies on the most dodgy of reasons, Fontera will I predict within 15 years be at least 30% overseas owned, not necessarily a bad thing, but given it's effectively a monopoly it is ( I note the Govt are trying to mitigate the disaster by continuing to force Fontera to supply milk at cost to other processors, but because our capital market is so screwed, the processors are primarily overseas owned ). I don't have an issue with overseas ownership in balance, it's the lack of balance that worries me.
Not just Govt issues ( Though Labour were a disaster ), most were/are own goals sorry.

I'd still way rather be around now though, a 1960's scramble bike or a TXC250, not a tough decision :), internet or party phone lines, beer in the supermarket or 5pm closing. Alot of good reasons to enjoy now.

[chop]

yea your right nige, bike a 1960's scrambles bike would be way better but your stuck with what youve got :yes: haha

[Shorty_925]

Some people have got it right, if the ride costs and doesnt end up being a good trail, then I wont be going back.

I know of a local school fundrasier ride, they got in a marketing group and a year later the price doubled, it was an alright ride, but not double. This year they canned the afternoon loop part way through, put everyone onto the public road to head back to the carpark, just wish the cops were there to come down on them like a tonne of bricks for pulling such a stupid move.

On the other side, I prefer racing, and am happy to pay more for racing, but local trail rides are the usual farm trail ride, $25 with a feed, not too bad for a easy days riding. Everyone now and then head across to an epic event, which I know is more, but the track is usually better.