Just in case you didn't think you were a second class citizen...

[Pixie]

The Police have plans to stop every bike entering the Coromandel peninsular whether they are doing anything illegal or not.
As in Nelson,they will probably take your photo and you may be the lucky recipient of a motorcycle safety lecture from a non-riding 23 year old constable.

They don't do random stops on gang members yet,do they?

What a good reason to join MAG-NZ

[Bald Eagle]

When are they going to start random stops on drivers with licenses from the Stevie Wonder School of Driving

[Devil]

The Police have plans to stop every bike entering the Coromandel peninsular ....

Got reference?

[duckonin]

And when does all of this start?.. Two bikes today one later, 10 the following day none for six days.....Do they plan to have a cop sitting on his arse waiting for a bike to come along ?:innocent:

Forget the propoganda clap trap and go and ride your bike.. :yes:

[munster]

Dad and I got stopped back in February doing the Coro Loop, just south of Coromandel township, but then so did every other vehicle. Usual WOF & Rego stop. Didn't even ask to see our licenses.

Would be a waste of resources to just stop bikes, wouldn't it?

I would not be happy with them taking a photo of me for seemingly no reason whatsoever.. What legal reason could they have for that?

[Grubber]

Just waiting to see some verification on this one........hmmmm...still waiting......nope.....still waiting.
Well is it for real, or just some hearsay again.:sleep:

[Bald Eagle]

I would not be happy with them taking a photo of me for seemingly no reason whatsoever.. What legal reason could they have for that?

Post mortem ID :sick:

[Mully]

I notice no Police are commenting on this.

TBH, I take getting pulled over and checked as part of the deal (look at the number on Motorway Patrol who don't have a licence).

Unless you were caught doing something illegal, I'd be keen to know if they were allowed to force you to have your photo taken. That's assuming this is true, of course.

[A_Mans_Ruin]

is it legal for them to take an identifiable photo without permission when you are not breaking the law? There must be something in the privacy act against that ......:blink:

[bogan]

just do the same back to them, take photo and give a lecture on how thier time would be better spent tracking down burglars :shifty:

seriously though, if this is confirmned, some actions should be taken to ensure this sorta shit stops, imo a safety lecture from an upstart cager is more likely to make a rider angry and unfocused, ie more at risk.

[Katman]

Well the Coro GP season is not far from starting.

Think of it as scrutineering.

[Rogue Rider]

I guess the police are just doing there bit to be proactive against dangerous driving..... What would be a more effective method than what they propose.
The sad reasoning is that there are lots of riders who off on the coro gp, I guess that would be why they target it. It's also easy to isolate both sides......
Police like making things easy for themselves. They like to do as little as possible for as much as possible so they can knock off and go get some twinkies and doughnuts. I find they are usually in hot spots where they can get their quota quickly, then finish the day mooching around looking like they are doing there bit.
How often do you pass a police car with the officer day dreaming and sitting reading..... I notice those things regularly.
They will target the majority, in the hope that statistics play there part. What they don't account for are the variables, the dead don't learn twice........

[ukusa]

maybe they're just telling people not to crash, coz I'm sure there are some that believe that we riders go out with the intention of crashing & burning.

[PirateJafa]

Well the Coro GP season is not far from starting.

Think of it as scrutineering.

You're not allowed to enter unless your chicken strips are thiiiiiis high.

[Scuba_Steve]

This would be about the right time for the start of the "blitz"... They just wanna make sure everyone's paid their extorted money to ACC.

[avgas]

maybe they're just telling people not to crash, coz I'm sure there are some that believe that we riders go out with the intention of crashing & burning.
First rule of fight club is.....

[Pixie]

Got reference?

I know an attendee at the meeting in Tauranga where this was announced by the police rep

[Pixie]

I notice no Police are commenting on this.

TBH, I take getting pulled over and checked as part of the deal (look at the number on Motorway Patrol who don't have a licence).

Unless you were caught doing something illegal, I'd be keen to know if they were allowed to force you to have your photo taken. That's assuming this is true, of course.

This has been happening in Nelson for over a month

[tamarillo]

In Nelson they stopped us but were polite and the safety thing was a brochure from the coordinator of local riding courses that is part paid by ACC. I did not mind. There are many many riders who really should go on these course and whose riding is truly stupid, and riders on limited or no licence ridng big bikes. I was stopped twice and that is my experience at least.

No photos were taken. Let's not get too paranoid...

[tamarillo]

This has been happening in Nelson for over a month

What has? Photos? Have been stopped twice in these road blocks but no photos...

[SMOKEU]

First rule of fight club is.....

Not to talk about fight club?

[tamarillo]

maybe they're just telling people not to crash, coz I'm sure there are some that believe that we riders go out with the intention of crashing & burning.

Mate! the way some folk ride I can see why they think that. We need to all grow up and accept we have a far higher accident rate than we should.

[Maha]

I know an attendee at the meeting in Tauranga where this was announced by the police rep

You are absolutely right.

[Squiggles]

Well the Coro GP season is not far from starting.

Think of it as scrutineering.

Hardly surprising (http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/road-safety-issues/waikato-eastern-area/2009.pdf)

[Genie]

Didn't notice much of anything personally down here...saw a lot of law enforcement vehicles but nary a one asked me for a chat.

I think good on the police for seeing there is a problem and wanting to do something about it. It may not be the bestest idea in everyones minds but if their work saves one life....then it's worth.

Don't know much about yon Coro Loop other than there have been some rather nasty accidents up there...

If you ride to the rules then it won't be a problem, I think those that complain might just be the ones that need the learn. Sad thing about all the safety messages is that the ones that need to be listening just aren't.

[Mom]

If you ride to the rules then it won't be a problem, I think those that complain might just be the ones that need the learn. Sad thing about all the safety messages is that the ones that need to be listening just aren't.

I disagree. Why should I get stopped while I am riding to the rules? I dont see why I should be stopped by the police just because I happen to be riding my bike and not driving my car. That is discrimination no matter how much the police want to dress it up as a safety initiative in my mind.

[yachtie10]

It may not be the bestest idea in everyones minds but if their work saves one life....then it's worth.

.

Sorry dont agree with this
This mentality is why we keep loosing our freedoms in this country
they could save a whole lot of lives by banning motorcycles. TPTB cant get away with this in one go but they can just keep removing our freedom bit by bit.

I have no issue with being stopped for safety reasons but why motorcycles alone?

[Little Miss Trouble]

Hardly surprising (http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/road-safety-issues/waikato-eastern-area/2009.pdf)

Hmm, page 7 raises an interesting question for me - casualties listed by age - were the 10-14 year olds hit by motorcycles, pillion passengers, children riding on the road illegally or are these incidents off road crashes that have been wrongly classified?
If its the later then that raises the question of how many in the other age groups are also wrongly classified?

P.S. I'm not saying many riders don't need to take a look at their attitudes to the way they ride on public roads, I'm just sceptical of any statistic used to condeem us all as naughty little boys and girls.

[Mom]

P.S. I'm not saying many riders don't need to take a look at their attitudes to the way they ride on public roads, I'm just sceptical of any statistic used to condeem us all as naughty little boys and girls.

Yepper not just the statistics either, but the way they are manipulated to put the predetermined spin on them. Wont be the first time that bikers are singled out because someones agenda got the figures manipulated in a certain way, or the data was not captured accurately at source.

[Little Miss Trouble]

I disagree. Why should I get stopped while I am riding to the rules? I dont see why I should be stopped by the police just because I happen to be riding my bike and not driving my car. That is discrimination no matter how much the police want to dress it up as a safety initiative in my mind.

That would be my objection to it too, particularly if they want to take my photo - which isn't actually beyond their power to do as you are in a public place, despite the fact that I would not be stopped in that public place if it weren't for their use of their authority to stop me in the first place.
If any lawyer types could enlighten me, I would be very interested in knowing how this fits in with the privacy laws.

[Mom]

If any lawyer types could enlighten me, I would be very interested in knowing how this fits in with the privacy laws.

They can randomly stop you, they do have that power, the issue here is if they are providing a safety initiative then ALL road users should be targeted, not just us bikers.

[Katman]

They can randomly stop you, they do have that power, the issue here is if they are providing a safety initiative then ALL road users should be targeted, not just us bikers.

Maybe they figure we have the greater need for a safety initiative.

[Mom]

Maybe they figure we have the greater need for a safety initiative.

Maybe, but where is the safety initiative in stopping all bikers to give them a lecture on riding safely? Or WOF and rego checks for thqat matter? In my experience the more you try to ram shit down peoples throats the more resistant they become to hearing the message. Surely they risk pissing off bikers at the start of a ride around the Coro loop, by stopping them for no other reason than a lecture that most of them dont need anyway, creating a "get fuckt" attitude at the start of the ride.

I would call that counter productive myself.

Maybe, but why should decent law abiding bikers have their freedom to ride without interference from the police interrupted, because of the actions of a few idiots. We can not be held resposible for the actions of the dickheads that persist in riding like dickheads and cleaning themselves up.

[Milts]

The other thing about those stats is how many of those overlap? For example, how many of the 'lost control on a corner' stats or 'speeding' stats were also drunk drivers? IMHO if a driver is intoxicated at the time, the crash should not be put into any other category - cornering while drunk is entirely different from cornering while sober, the issue is no longer that they were going at an unsafe speed, it's that they were bloody drunk.

The other huge problem with stats is the sample size. Pure chance creates significant fluctuation from year to year. I'm sure many on here know just how much chance is involved in whether a crash is minor, fatal, or even whether it's a crash at all. All it takes is for two more people than usual to cross the centre line in any given year and the road toll could jump very significantly for a given area if another vehicle happened to be coming the other way - conversely, accidents which could very easily be multiple fatalities can, through pure chance or very slightly different reactions from drivers, result in little injury. If you look at statistics in depth it's amazing just how little it takes to twist stats one way or the other, and just how large a sample size is required for it to be representative.

While I'm generally in favour of the whole 'greater good' thing, this seems pretty unproductive on the part of the police. Especially since in general I suspect riders are more aware of safety and road conditions than a large proportion of drivers. Regardless of whether they are or not, the time for education is not half way through a gentle afternoon ride.

Re the photo, it's my understanding that if you are in a public place, doing something which is not inherently private in nature, then you should have no expectation of privacy and if someone (anyone) takes a photo of you, then too bad. I could be completely wrong with this though.

[Little Miss Trouble]

They can randomly stop you, they do have that power, the issue here is if they are providing a safety initiative then ALL road users should be targeted, not just us bikers.

I guess what I was trying to say is, I would damn sure want to know for what purpose that photo was i.e. "Because we can" does not satisfy the query if they are keeping extra files on motorcyclists, so I was wondering what provisions there are for us to access that information?

[yungatart]

I disagree. Why should I get stopped while I am riding to the rules? I dont see why I should be stopped by the police just because I happen to be riding my bike and not driving my car. That is discrimination no matter how much the police want to dress it up as a safety initiative in my mind.

I had that happen to me once, pulled out of a line of vehicles (13, including 1 motorcyclist, me) just for a WOF,REGO and licence check "because we find a lot of motorcyclists don't have the correct licence". WTF!!
I was the ONLY one stopped, and I was rightly pissed off. I was doing nothing but going about my lawful business.
My protest...I went through every pocket on my person and my pack, before prducing my licence. I knew where it was all the time, I just wanted to waste his time, as he had wasted mine.
Totally unfair, and nothing to do with safety!

[Swoop]

More crap to carry on the loop then...

Put a box of donuts into the tank bag.
If followed, throw donut over shoulder onto road.
Wait for screeching of brakes as patrolcar does emergency stop for the tasty morsel.

Remember: There are NO Dunkin' Donut outlets on the loop! Be prepared!

[Berries]

I guess if they really wanted to have your photo they could just find a way to pull the one from your licence.


Hmm, page 7 raises an interesting question for me - casualties listed by age - were the 10-14 year olds hit by motorcycles, pillion passengers, children riding on the road illegally or are these incidents off road crashes that have been wrongly classified?
If you read the two tables on Page 7 there were 147 motorcycle casualties. But if you look at the text at the bottom only 117 of them were actually on the bike, so the rest were likely peds, cyclists and car occupants.

There should not be any off road crashes in the list because they don't generally get recorded that way. You will however find off road (non registered) bikes that were on the road when they crashed. And farm bikes. Both of those could involve 14yo riders.

[NONONO]

I find it difficult to accept some of the replies in this post.
How is it OK for someone to slap you just cos they can?
Why is it fine to be pulled over, have your vehicle checked out, your license scrutinized, be photographed, and be the recipient of a lecture simply because you choose to ride a motorcycle?
If you slap me I will bite your fkin hand off...
If you don't want this to happen then allow me to go about my LAWFUL business without unwarranted interference.
Simple enough eh?

[Scuba_Steve]

There should not be any off road crashes in the list because they don't generally get recorded that way. You will however find off road (non registered) bikes that were on the road when they crashed. And farm bikes. Both of those could involve 14yo riders.

don't forget tho because of yet another retarded decision from parliament in later years beaches are also treated as roads, another reason 10-14yo's could be mentioned (despite it still technically being illegal for them to ride there too)

[Katman]

The police are obviously as aware of the vast numbers of motorcyclists who treat the Coro loop as their personal racetrack as the rest of us are.

If anyone wants to bleat that their liberties are being compromised perhaps they should direct their indignation towards the motorcyclists who have brought us to this point.

[Genie]

The police are obviously as aware of the vast numbers of motorcyclists who treat the Coro loop as their personal racetrack as the rest of us are.

If anyone wants to bleat that their liberties are being compromised perhaps they should direct their indignation towards the motorcyclists who have brought us to this point.

Right here...says it all. :yes:

[Squiggles]

I'd be interested in if they are checking peoples licenses (conditions obeyed etc)...

[riffer]

The police are obviously as aware of the vast numbers of motorcyclists who treat the Coro loop as their personal racetrack as the rest of us are.

If anyone wants to bleat that their liberties are being compromised perhaps they should direct their indignation towards the motorcyclists who have brought us to this point.

Yes I have to admit I agree with Katman here. Certain motorcyclists have done us all NO favours by the way they've ridden (and crashed) on the Coro loop. I don't blame the Police for trying to make a difference. Thinking on a psychological level I can understand how the break in the ride gives the average rider the opportunity to stop, listen and reassess their own riding and I would suggest that the majority of people, if they actually thought about what the Police were trying to do instead of trying to be all bolshey about 'rights' and not considering the motives.

Why are the Police doing it? Do you REALLY think they're just trying to fuck you shit up? Grow up. They're playing the numbers. The reason they don't pull over more cars and talk to them is that there just aren't as many cars coming to grief on that road. I guarantee if you got cars trying to canyon race on the Coro loop they'd do exactly the same to them.

Seriously guys. Apply some grey matter to this. And shut up about rights. Some of you have no idea how good you have it here and are determined to push until the big clampdown comes.

And then they'll start fucking my shit up. And I'll be really pissed.

[Bikemad]

More crap to carry on the loop then...

Put a box of donuts into the tank bag.
If followed, throw donut over shoulder onto road.
Wait for screeching of brakes as patrolcar does emergency stop for the tasty morsel.



or does a U turn in front of oncoming traffic to retrieve his snack............

[Mom]

I guess what I was trying to say is, I would damn sure want to know for what purpose that photo was i.e. "Because we can" does not satisfy the query if they are keeping extra files on motorcyclists, so I was wondering what provisions there are for us to access that information?

What an interesting question. Unless I am holding a number up under my face, and have a heap of black indian ink on my fingers, I dont expect that the police will EVER take my picture. In fact it might be fair to say I would take exception if they tried, I dont believe that there is a law that allows pictures of me to be taken by police randomly at a roadside stop and just for the hell of it.

The Privacy Commissioner may well be a starter for the answer to if they can gather our photographs just because we ride motorcycles, the Police Commissioner sounds like an excellent first port of call for a letter, along with the Minister of Police.

[JudaBaker]

To me it seems quite similar to the new boy-racer cruising laws. A bunch of clowns roar around the streets like idiots and everyone fitting the description (Bike/Ricebucket) in the area has to put up with the shit it causes.. And to a lot of people motorcyclists are probably no higher up the the totem pole than boy-racers, regardless of how they actually ride.

[duckonin]

Yes I have to admit I agree with Katman here. Certain motorcyclists have done us all NO favours by the way they've ridden (and crashed) on the Coro loop.

The reason they don't pull over more cars and talk to them is that there just aren't as many cars coming to grief on that road.[QUOTE



And then they'll start fucking my shit up. And I'll be really pissed.[/QUOTE]

Wrong 'cars' have their fair share on the coro road...

[bogan]

The police are obviously as aware of the vast numbers of motorcyclists who treat the Coro loop as their personal racetrack as the rest of us are.

If anyone wants to bleat that their liberties are being compromised perhaps they should direct their indignation towards the motorcyclists who have brought us to this point.

Surely it's not hard to figure out which motorcyclists treat it as a racetrack, and which just ride safely and enjoy it though? Must be plenty of corners up there where the racers ride dangerously for cops to stake out.

[Mom]

And to a lot of people motorcyclists are probably no higher up the the totem pole than boy-racers, no matter how you ride.

Sad eh?

That is why we need a strong presence that shows very, very clearly that we do not approve of some behaviours on the road by a minority bikers, but still support and defend the right to ride without discrimination, either financially (with increased ACC levies), or physically.

[Gremlin]

mebe they just want to discourage motorcyclists from going there... less going there, presumably less crashes, then they can claim how the campaign was a total success? :yes:

If it makes for a quieter coro, then cool, its usually 50-50 I do it in the day or night anyway :ride:

[scumdog]

The sky is falling..the sky is falling....:shifty:

[NONONO]

Yes I have to admit I agree with Katman here. Certain motorcyclists have done us all NO favours by the way they've ridden (and crashed) on the Coro loop. I don't blame the Police for trying to make a difference. Thinking on a psychological level I can understand how the break in the ride gives the average rider the opportunity to stop, listen and reassess their own riding and I would suggest that the majority of people, if they actually thought about what the Police were trying to do instead of trying to be all bolshey about 'rights' and not considering the motives.

Why are the Police doing it? Do you REALLY think they're just trying to fuck you shit up? Grow up. They're playing the numbers. The reason they don't pull over more cars and talk to them is that there just aren't as many cars coming to grief on that road. I guarantee if you got cars trying to canyon race on the Coro loop they'd do exactly the same to them.

Seriously guys. Apply some grey matter to this. And shut up about rights. Some of you have no idea how good you have it here and are determined to push until the big clampdown comes.

And then they'll start fucking my shit up. And I'll be really pissed.

Jeez, and that from a BRONZ Executive Member!!!!!:shit:

[Paul in NZ]

Look - I'm not too worried either way because when its all said and done I'm a sad old prick anyway and I'm not likely to ride up there to kill myself with so many local options available eh?

Frankly I'm amazed that people are surprised by this and calling it discrimination... I suspect the motorists and residents also wonder if they are discriminated against cos they have to obey the laws and apparently motorcyclists dont. Well that is apart from the laws of gravity and physics that is.

Like it or not Police have been charged with reducing the road toll and in certain areas we as 'bikers' collectively seem to loose all sense of reason.. If there are too many deaths expect an official response... The fact its called the Coro GP speaks volumes...

I liken it to the meetings I used to go to regarding diabetic services etc and getting lectured by a 23 stone Tongan woman about how everyone has a right to treatment. I mean FFS she chews up 30 times the amount of $$ I do because she wont stop fuggin eating which means less for me? Yet she claims discrimination? Piss of - I'm being discriminated against because of you you fat bitch (apparently not a proper response from a white middle class man - I've not been invited back) Point is - like following my dark fat friend through the buffet section, if we as a group are taking more from the trough than is our fair share by annoying the locals and taking up valuable burial spots we must expect more of this and eventually it wont just be a friendly reminder.. Its annoying but take it as a warning...

[red mermaid]

But if the Police didn't have so many staff doing traffic duties they would be able to stop it.



The sky is falling..the sky is falling....:shifty:

[bogan]

Look - I'm not too worried either way because when its all said and done I'm a sad old prick anyway and I'm not likely to ride up there to kill myself with so many local options available eh?

Frankly I'm amazed that people are surprised by this and calling it discrimination... I suspect the motorists and residents also wonder if they are discriminated against cos they have to obey the laws and apparently motorcyclists dont. Well that is apart from the laws of gravity and physics that is.

Like it or not Police have been charged with reducing the road toll and in certain areas we as 'bikers' collectively seem to loose all sense of reason.. If there are too many deaths expect an official response... The fact its called the Coro GP speaks volumes...

I liken it to the meetings I used to go to regarding diabetic services etc and getting lectured by a 23 stone Tongan woman about how everyone has a right to treatment. I mean FFS she chews up 30 times the amount of $$ I do because she wont stop fuggin eating which means less for me? Yet she claims discrimination? Piss of - I'm being discriminated against because of you you fat bitch (apparently not a proper response from a white middle class man - I've not been invited back) Point is - like following my dark fat friend through the buffet section, if we as a group are taking more from the trough than is our fair share by annoying the locals and taking up valuable burial spots we must expect more of this and eventually it wont just be a friendly reminder.. Its annoying but take it as a warning...

Your fat tongan friend issue isn't actually about discrimination, her actions directly affected her treatment costs. Discrimination is judging based on class instead of actions, like safe bikers being pulled over for the actions of other bikers, how bout the authorities penalize the dangerous actions, not the 'dangerous' hobby.

[Paul in NZ]

Your fat tongan friend issue isn't actually about discrimination, her actions directly affected her treatment costs. Discrimination is judging based on class instead of actions, like safe bikers being pulled over for the actions of other bikers, how bout the authorities penalize the dangerous actions, not the 'dangerous' hobby.

True (ish) and fair enough point but I was just trying to make a point... Besides, i still get pulled over but usually just to laugh at me or to look at whatever antique I'm riding that day ;-)

[Berries]

don't forget tho because of yet another retarded decision from parliament in later years beaches are also treated as roads, another reason 10-14yo's could be mentioned (despite it still technically being illegal for them to ride there too)
I don't know the Coromandel. It has beaches ?

You're right though. Beaches are treated the same as petrol station forecourts and supermarket car parks, ie anywhere the public has vehicle access. Depending on who does the analysis some may exclude all those ‘off road’ crashes, some might not. They tend to bias towards the low speed, non injury two vehicle incidents anyway. There are relatively few on beaches in comparison but they are a lot different, single vehicle rolling type of thing, with the associated increase in injuries.

Anyway, if we all started going down to the New World car park at midnight to do burn outs, wheelies and a bit of drag racing, get injured and be a general public nuisance I expect that the Police may start pulling all the bikes that go down to the New World car park at midnight. Guilty by association. I don't see the Coro Loop being much different from what I have read on here. If you want to ride it legally there is nothing to worry about, apart from the hassle of being pulled over and being lectured. If you can't handle that, and can't understand why the Police are concerned about riders on that road just as much as MAGNZ are then why not try a different road ? As an added bonus there will probably be less cops patrolling it.

Someone mentioned boy racers. I bet they had a very similar thread to this on their own forum, if they can use computers that is. Although I personally find them laughable and a bunch of cocks I am sure many non riders look at us and think the same. We're no different to boy racers when it comes to this, much as we'd like to think we are superior than all other road users. Apologies to Bogan, but you can see what I mean when you change a couple of words in what you just said -


Discrimination is judging based on class instead of actions, like safe 'car enthusiasts' being pulled over for the actions of other boy racers, how bout the authorities penalize the dangerous actions, not the 'dangerous' hobby.

We all cheered when the whole lot of them got done the other month in Chch.

[JudaBaker]

Your fat tongan friend issue isn't actually about discrimination, her actions directly affected her treatment costs. Discrimination is judging based on class instead of actions, like safe bikers being pulled over for the actions of other bikers, how bout the authorities penalize the dangerous actions, not the 'dangerous' hobby.


To do this you would actually have to catch someone in the act, which can be hard to do. It's easier to pull over road users who statistically already fit the bill and work from there. You will get a lot more tickets if you do it this way. (try pulling old ladies and learner plates all day, most will be legal)

[NONONO]

Katman..
Really trying to follow your logic here, so if you can bear it, just explain (once again if you have the time) what it is you are saying?
That it's all our own fault?
OK just say I accept that we, as bikers, are an inherently dangerous bunch..what would you have us do? Slow down more? Ride in a defensive manner more, never exceed the speed limit, wear day glo outfits? I mean what is it you advocate?
"Stop falling off" is not useful, it assumes that we have some other choice when confronted by an accident. Accidents, by definition are not foreseen..yes we can train ourselves to a high degree of alertness...but accident...by definition.
Can I ask in all sincerity (for which I'm not known, but just this once) do you not agree that there are other factors involved? Factors outside of our control which contribute to the accident rate?
Poor roads, poor roading policies, poor awareness of other road users, cup holders, CD players, cell phones (think that's all good now?) the list is endless.
Yes, keep ourselves alive by all and every means, but there are other issues that need addressing..
Anyway, see you in Taupo...:yes:

[AD345]

Yes I have to admit I agree with Katman here. Certain motorcyclists have done us all NO favours by the way they've ridden (and crashed) on the Coro loop. I don't blame the Police for trying to make a difference. Thinking on a psychological level I can understand how the break in the ride gives the average rider the opportunity to stop, listen and reassess their own riding and I would suggest that the majority of people, if they actually thought about what the Police were trying to do instead of trying to be all bolshey about 'rights' and not considering the motives.

Why are the Police doing it? Do you REALLY think they're just trying to fuck you shit up? Grow up. They're playing the numbers. The reason they don't pull over more cars and talk to them is that there just aren't as many cars coming to grief on that road. I guarantee if you got cars trying to canyon race on the Coro loop they'd do exactly the same to them.

Seriously guys. Apply some grey matter to this. And shut up about rights. Some of you have no idea how good you have it here and are determined to push until the big clampdown comes.

And then they'll start fucking my shit up. And I'll be really pissed.

Mate - if you're really a BRONZ executive member - then they just lost my interest for life


"shut up about rights"

who the fuck are you?

[Mom]

But if the Police didn't have so many staff doing traffic duties they would be able to stop it.

Your trolling sarcasm is pathetic.

http://www.rickwalton.com/funstuff/skyfall.htm

At least most of us recognise scummy as a troll, he even advertises it, and many of us respect it and agree with him...:lol:

[bogan]

To do this you would actually have to catch someone in the act, which can be hard to do. It's easier to pull over road users who statistically already fit the bill and work from there. You will get a lot more tickets if you do it this way. (try pulling old ladies and learner plates all day, most will be legal)

would have thought cops would get a lot more tickets by only stopping those who are doing wrong, ie, the ones they can ticket! I'll say again, surely there are corners that cops could stake out and catch the majority of coroGP racers; nobody would feel discriminated against, and the dangerous riders would be reprimanded.

[Mom]

would have thought cops would get a lot more tickets by only stopping those who are doing wrong, ie, the ones they can ticket! I'll say again, surely there are corners that cops could stake out and catch the majority of coroGP racers; nobody would feel discriminated against, and the dangerous riders would be reprimanded.

ABSOLUTELY!

Opps...

Take your chances out there and take the consequences of your actions. This is all about personal responsibility. Personal action.

[Old Steve]

its a sorry fact of life, but some riders leave their common sense behind once they hit the Coromandel roads.

Two weekends ago I went from Tauranga to Whangamata, over the hill to Kopu, down to Paeroa and home through the gorges with 7 other bikes. Because I'm on a 250, the other riders let me and the designated 'tail end charlie' go first once we turned from the eastern coast road onto the hills toward Kopu. Not long after, the other six came screaming passed, already spreading out and enjoying the road. However, about 2/3 of the way over the hills we came across two riders and one bike on the side of the road - the other bike was ten feet (OK, 3 metres for you younger folks) up a very steep bank as a result of the rider having lost control at too high a speed on a large sweeping right hander. The rider was unhurt, but it took 5 of us to drag the bike (Kwaka Vulcan V 2000) down onto the roadside.

So, probably the Feds have a justifiable case for an increased safety focussed presence on the Coromandel loop road. And we have only ourselves, or some members of our riding community, to blame for it.

[_Shrek_]

I'd be keen to know if they were allowed to force you to have your photo taken. That's assuming this is true, of course.

218682 fat lot of good it would do :laugh:


The sky is falling..the sky is falling....:shifty:

:Pokey: you telling porkies scummy it was Swoop biffing those bloody donuts


Put a box of donuts into the tank bag.
If followed, throw donut over shoulder

not just :Police: ride beamers :dodge:ing donuts

[Virago]

I can't understand why a group of people wearing full biking gear and helmets are so worried about having their photos taken. Fuck, it's not like they're trying to identify The Stig anymore...

[JudaBaker]

would have thought cops would get a lot more tickets by only stopping those who are doing wrong, ie, the ones they can ticket!

Well I doubt you've ever speeded in your life, as that would be be wrong (i.e ticketable), my point was that it's easier to get a ticket if you pull over certain types than just at random.

[Mom]

IFuck, it's not like they're trying to identify The Stig anymore...

:lol:

Well I guess I could live with having my pic taken in soft focus, with my visor down. That however is not what the concern is here.

I take it I can no longer pretend I am The Stig :killingme

[miloking]

Mate! the way some folk ride I can see why they think that. We need to all grow up and accept we have a far higher accident rate than we should.

NO we dont! just another bullshit propaganda from ACC that you bought...

[_Shrek_]

Mate! the way some folk ride I can see why they think that. We need to all grow up and accept we have a far higher accident rate than we should.

:scratch: do by any chance work for ACC



I take it I can no longer pretend I am The Stig :killingme

:gob: the Stig has BOOBS :thud:

[miloking]

The police are obviously as aware of the vast numbers of motorcyclists who treat the Coro loop as their personal racetrack as the rest of us are.

If anyone wants to bleat that their liberties are being compromised perhaps they should direct their indignation towards the motorcyclists who have brought us to this point.


Right here...says it all. :yes:

NO it does NOT!

How is it right or even legal to disciminate whole group of people and the only justification Police,Katman and Genie have is that...some "uknown" group of riders brought us ALL to that point??? WTF?
Those idividuals that broke the law and "brough us to the point" have already been deal with and punished (or crashed and died) so why are we ALL still punished for "their" mistakes ...that have been already dealt with????


ALSO Katman i dont get paid from goverment collected tax to go around and "direct my indignation" against people that break the law thats a job for POLICE but not to make it easy for themselves and punish us all just because we sit on vehicle with two wheels!

[Mom]

:gob: the Stig has BOOBS :thud:

:shutup:

Pert, lovely boobies apparently :shifty:

[_Shrek_]

Pert, lovely boobies apparently :shifty:

:drool: :drool:

[bogan]

Well I doubt you've ever speeded in your life, as that would be be wrong (i.e ticketable), my point was that it's easier to get a ticket if you pull over certain types than just at random.

course I have, thing is, if i get pulled over for speeding, I'll think that i need to be more careful. If i just get pulled up outs the blue, I'll go off thinking what the fuck was that about, bloody timewasters...
In which case am I likely to be a safer rider?

also, yeh you may be more likely to get a rego/wof ticket on certain types, what does that have to do with safety though?

[yachtie10]

Mate - if you're really a BRONZ executive member - then they just lost my interest for life


"shut up about rights"

who the fuck are you?

+1 who do wellington bronz represent?

[JudaBaker]

also, yeh you may be more likely to get a rego/wof ticket on certain types, what does that have to do with safety though?

Nothing, none of my my posts were about what is safe, just why people get pulled up.

[bogan]

+1 who do wellington bronz represent?

cmon guys, it was one ill thought out statement by one member of the organisation, put the pitchforks away.

[Mom]

cmon guys, it was one ill thought out statement by one member of the organisation, put the pitchforks away.

Confirms yet again why you are part of the founding members of MAG-NZ. Well said that man.

[PirateJafa]

Okay, you bunch of pussies.

I'll organise a couple of Forgotten Highway GPs this summer for the Auckland crew instead.

Jeez.

[DMNTD]

cmon guys, it was one ill thought out statement by one member of the organisation, put the pitchforks away.

Although you have a point, that person/member has chosen to be apart of a national organisation and has made a statement which sadly??? will reflect on said organisation. I have and now do work in the motorcycle industry therefore at times I must watch what I say on this site too.


In saying that....good fucking luck to the Policeman that wants to take my picture for 'no reason'! If I have done wrong...so be it. If I'm being a good boy...neh

[BMWST?]

I had that happen to me once, pulled out of a line of vehicles (13, including 1 motorcyclist, me) just for a WOF,REGO and licence check "because we find a lot of motorcyclists don't have the correct licence". WTF!!
I was the ONLY one stopped, and I was rightly pissed off. I was doing nothing but going about my lawful business.
My protest...I went through every pocket on my person and my pack, before prducing my licence. I knew where it was all the time, I just wanted to waste his time, as he had wasted mine.
Totally unfair, and nothing to do with safety!

therein lies a germ of an idea

[scracha]

I think good on the police for seeing there is a problem and wanting to do something about it. It may not be the bestest idea in everyones minds but if their work saves one life....then it's worth.

The "if it saves one life" thing is a red herring. If we all drove at 10kmph it'd save lots of lives but to be honest, I don't think it'd be worth it.

How much interference with law abiding citizens do we allow the police? If it's really about saving lives and reasonable suspicion, then why don't they just stop everyone coming out of my local pub's carpark every afternoon and evening?

218683

[Latte]

Doing a half loop tomorrow , will report how many times the poporazzi take my portrait :D

[bogan]

Although you have a point, that person/member has chosen to be apart of a national organisation and has made a statement which sadly??? will reflect on said organisation. I have and now do work in the motorcycle industry therefore at times I must watch what I say on this site too.


In saying that....good fucking luck to the Policeman that wants to take my picture for 'no reason'! If I have done wrong...so be it. If I'm being a good boy...neh

you're right, it will to some degree with some people, but to say every members views reflect the organisations is absurd, in fact diversity of viewpoints within an organisation is essential, granted the diversity shouldn't be advertised everywhere.
Others (and I hope the majority) will take it as a single individuals viewpoint which doesn't reflect the organisation's viewpoint.

[yachtie10]

cmon guys, it was one ill thought out statement by one member of the organisation, put the pitchforks away.

where are the pitchforks?
its a valid question or is that not allowed?

[DEVVIL]

Okay, you bunch of pussies.

I'll organise a couple of Forgotten Highway GPs this summer for the Auckland crew instead.

Jeez.
Let me know if you do

[scumdog]

How much interference with law abiding citizens do we allow the police?
218683


Substitute 'politicians' for 'we' and you're onto it...:yes:


And how much interference have you had??:mellow:

[DMNTD]

So, probably the Feds have a justifiable case for an increased safety focused presence on the Coromandel loop road. And we have only ourselves, or some members of our riding community, to blame for it.

I don't disagree with your statement above, in fact I have been a bit of a shit around the Coro too. The ONLY issue I have is someone demanding to take my photo IF I have done nothing wrong.

[bogan]

where are the pitchforks?
its a valid question or is that not allowed?

Sorry, it sounded like you were assuming welli bronz made the statement, carry on with the valid questions! though I fear it may be buried now...

[scumdog]

My protest...I went through every pocket on my person and my pack, before prducing my licence. I knew where it was all the time, I just wanted to waste his time, as he had wasted mine.!

'waste his time'??:scratch:

WTF, dya think he gets paid by the number of bikes he stops???:blink:

He's there for his shift - how long YOU hold him up is of no concern to him.

But if it made ya feel better......

[riffer]

Ok, I'll bite again.

Firstly, just because I'm a member of BRONZ Executive, doesn't mean I speak for them on this site. I have the signature on my posts for transparency so you know my affiliation. So chill...

You want to pull me up on mentioning rights? And you think I'm saying you don't have any rights? Read my email again. Nowhere do I say you don't have any rights.

Maybe I've been a little obtuse. Let me explain. There are certain rights that people have. And they are generally tied to responsibilities. The point I've been making is that too many motorcyclists have drawn attention to themselves, and other motorcyclists due to a perceived lack of responsibility. Therefore (and we can argue until the cows come home about if it's warranted) motorcyclists have come to the attention of the Police and Government. So the Government's come up with an idea to charge up through the nose to pay for ACC claims. And the Police have come up with an idea to try and "shock" motorcyclists into stopping and thinking about what could happen.

So they take a picture? So what? Are you a descendant of some jungle tribe that thought that taking a picture stole your soul? What do you think they could possibly do with that picture? You talk about your "right" to not be stopped at all. It's pathetic. You have no idea of what rights are.

I don't really give a shit about if you don't like to get stopped for 30 seconds so they can keep drunks off the road or have a convo with you to make you think about how you are riding. But when you start bleating about violation of your rights you have no idea.

Find some real battles to fight. This isn't one of them.

And this is NOT a BRONZ sanctioned or inspired post. This is me talking.

[AD345]

cmon guys, it was one ill thought out statement by one member of the organisation, put the pitchforks away.


Sorry bud but if you're going to carry the (big) sign of your position in your signature then you'd better think about how what you say reflects on the organisation that you are promoting.

The same holds true for those of you in mag-nz. If you carry the banner then you represent the role each time you speak under it.

It's no secret that Ixion is the leader of Auckland Bronz but he doesn't post as that. He posts as an individual on here and thats how I (for one) read his posts.

If he had a big BRONZ decal in his signature proclaiming him as such then, rightly or wrongly, thats the party line.

Something for mag-nz to think about.

Perception is reality

[AD345]

Well that was serendiptitous timing :yes:

[AD345]

Ok, I'll bite again.

Firstly, just because I'm a member of BRONZ Executive, doesn't mean I speak for them on this site. I have the signature on my posts for transparency so you know my affiliation. So chill...

You want to pull me up on mentioning rights? And you think I'm saying you don't have any rights? Read my email again. Nowhere do I say you don't have any rights.

Maybe I've been a little obtuse. Let me explain. There are certain rights that people have. And they are generally tied to responsibilities. The point I've been making is that too many motorcyclists have drawn attention to themselves, and other motorcyclists due to a perceived lack of responsibility. Therefore (and we can argue until the cows come home about if it's warranted) motorcyclists have come to the attention of the Police and Government. So the Government's come up with an idea to charge up through the nose to pay for ACC claims. And the Police have come up with an idea to try and "shock" motorcyclists into stopping and thinking about what could happen.

So they take a picture? So what? Are you a descendant of some jungle tribe that thought that taking a picture stole your soul? What do you think they could possibly do with that picture? You talk about your "right" to not be stopped at all. It's pathetic. You have no idea of what rights are.

I don't really give a shit about if you don't like to get stopped for 30 seconds so they can keep drunks off the road or have a convo with you to make you think about how you are riding. But when you start bleating about violation of your rights you have no idea.

Find some real battles to fight. This isn't one of them.

And this is NOT a BRONZ sanctioned or inspired post. This is me talking.

I seriously suggest that you spend some quality time reading about constitusional law, the bill of rights, the magna carta and about 200 yers of parliamentary democracy..........just for a start.

because

you

have

no

fucking

clue

[riffer]

Perception is reality

Nope. Perception is merely what was said filtered through the morass of bias, experience and prejudice that everyone has.

There's no such thing as reality. Please keep to the subject.

[riffer]

you

have

no

fucking

clue

Point out the relevant case law that proves your case. Prove what is happening is illegal. Ad hominem does not an argument make.

[Swoop]

Looking at the stat's posted earlier in the thread, Friday appears more of a menace, but that wouldn't be D'aucklanders on their way to their batches though...:blink: The stat's would never lie.


If it makes for a quieter coro, then cool, its usually 50-50 I do it in the day or night anyway :ride:
Yup. It'll be interesting if they have to station a unit 24/7 on the loop. Those who take "alternative" times should present more of a challenge compared with the Sunday crew.

[R6_kid]

I work for a company which employs nearly 40,000 people in one of the most dangerous occupations in the world. Only one person in the company died on the work site last year, that statistic wasn't achieved by refusing to be educated about safety. Of course in the eyes of the company, one death was one too many.

At first being anally retentive about safety like the company is seems like a hindrance, but after being here for a month and half I can see why they do it and how it does make a difference. Simple education surrounding some of the most mundane things has lead to a huge reduction in injuries. The thing is that once you embrace their initiatives and realise that you will be going home safe because of them it makes a lot of sense. Unlike suggested - being forcefed a safety conscious message hasn't turned everyone against being informed, it's been embraced and grown.

If we as motorcyclists adopted the three main initiatives in place out here I think the same results would show in fatality and injury statistics for motorcyclists. I think it's good to see that the money is being spent, they can't make you show up to a public meeting if you don't want to, but by stopping you in a high motorcycle traffic area they are able to make you aware of hazards and things you might otherwise not have been aware of - and even you were, you can bet that some numpty out there on a bike wasn't.

Sure, cage drivers also need a fair bit of extra training too. But the stats aren't going to change, even f you don't trust them, however if the real world data improves then they'll have to start charging us less - more of us survive and make it home safely to our loved ones and everyone is happier.

[Squiggles]

What an interesting question. Unless I am holding a number up under my face, and have a heap of black indian ink on my fingers, I dont expect that the police will EVER take my picture. In fact it might be fair to say I would take exception if they tried, I dont believe that there is a law that allows pictures of me to be taken by police randomly at a roadside stop and just for the hell of it.

The Privacy Commissioner may well be a starter for the answer to if they can gather our photographs just because we ride motorcycles, the Police Commissioner sounds like an excellent first port of call for a letter, along with the Minister of Police.

I suspect the pictures (if any are taken) might be used to try and identify hoons. I'd be in favour of this over chasing them...

[scracha]

e. Let me explain. There are certain rights that people have. And they are generally tied to responsibilities. The point I've been making is that too many motorcyclists have drawn attention to themselves, and other motorcyclists due to a perceived lack of responsibility. Therefore (and we can argue until the cows come home about if it's

So by this logic they could set up a road block south of Manakau and stop anyone with a brown face? Maybe all us immigrants with funny accents should be stopped too? You're basically quite happy for the cops to discriminate against a minority group. Pity the poor bastards on bikes who actually live and work in the Coro.



So they take a picture? So what? Are you a descendant of some jungle tribe that thought that taking a picture stole your soul? What do you think they could possibly do with that picture?

Is this before or after I bend over and let them search for drugs? Should I offer the nice policeman a fingerprint and DNA sample too? Consider that perhaps some of us simply don't want the cops to have a piccie of us and don't want to be treated like criminals.

Targeting law abiding motorists is simply sending out the wrong message. These ACC sponsored cop stops should be voluntary, with a free cup of coffee (did I mention doughnut?) and helmet wipe to go with the advice/lecture.



If we as motorcyclists adopted the three main initiatives in place out here I think the same results would show in fatality and injury statistics for motorcyclists. I think it's good to see that the money is being spent, they can't make you show up to a public meeting if you don't want to, but by stopping you in a high motorcycle traffic area they are able to make you aware of hazards and things you might otherwise not have been aware of - and even you were, you can bet that some numpty out there on a bike wasn't.
So improve the motorcycle test. Subsidise training days. Send driving offenders off to training courses. Put some riding advice in motorcycle magazines and websites (hey...Kiwibiker). Perhaps a pamphlet with riding advice in the same envelope as our rego renewal letter. We're not all born again Sunday warriors and I don't particularly want nor need some ACC sponsored copper to pull me over every week because I've had the audacity to visit a mate in the Coro on a motorcycle.

Maybe the following week they could stop all the "boaties" going up the Coro and tell them they really should learn to drive around tight blind corners on their own side of the road. Can't see it happening though. Imagine the outcry in the AA magazine.

[Squiggles]

So by this logic they could set up a road block south of Manakau and stop anyone with a brown face? Maybe all us immigrants with funny accents should be stopped too? You're basically quite happy for the cops to discriminate against a minority group.

edit: that didnt come out right :lol: damn skim reading


So improve the motorcycle test. Subsidise training days. Send driving offenders off to training courses. Put some riding advice in motorcycle magazines and websites (hey...Kiwibiker). Perhaps a pamphlet with riding advice in the same envelope as our rego renewal letter.

Passing this one on to my contacts in ACC & NZTA, tis too easy not to. Some might complain they're being targetted though?

[scracha]

How ironic, the reason they are scruitenising riders more closely is our abysmal safety record on the coro, the reason they'd pick brown people... well, we can only assume what you'd be meaning :lol:
I was trying to point out that stereotyping is wrong, but if we're talking safety and a reason to stop one group of drivers, try reading the drink drive statistics pertaining to Maori in proportion to the rest of the population. Should we allow cops to stop all of them? Of course not. You can't target everyone with the same brush. All you end up doing is create a "them and us" attitude. Educate and reward should be tried before discipline and punishment.

[riffer]

You're basically quite happy for the cops to discriminate against a minority group. Pity the poor bastards on bikes who actually live and work in the Coro.

It's not about being happy with it dude. It's about picking battles. A 30 second stop for a chat is a minor thing. I've been stopped on Paekakariki Hill when they were doing the same thing and it didn't piss me off. If you work in the Coro you'll likely be stopped once. Have a chat, go on your way. As I said, pick your battles. The omitted part of your post I haven't quoted I won't even bother commenting on because it's specious.


Is this before or after I bend over and let them search for drugs? Should I offer the nice policeman a fingerprint and DNA sample too?

{puts BRONZ hat on...}

From the Misuse of Drugs Act 1975 No 116 Section 18 Subsection 2:-

Where any constable has reasonable ground for believing that there is in or on any building, aircraft, ship, hovercraft, carriage, vehicle, premises, or place any controlled drug specified or described in Schedule 1 (http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1975/0116/latest/link.aspx?id=DLM436576#DLM436576) or in Part 1 (http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1975/0116/latest/link.aspx?id=DLM436587#DLM436587) of Schedule 2 or in Part 1 (http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1975/0116/latest/link.aspx?id=DLM436724#DLM436724) of Schedule 3 or any precursor substance specified or described in Part 3 (http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1975/0116/latest/link.aspx?id=DLM436780#DLM436780) of Schedule 4 and that an offence against this Act has been or is suspected of having been committed in respect of that drug or precursor substance, he, and any assistants who accompany him, may enter and search the building, aircraft, ship, hovercraft, carriage, vehicle, premises, or place and any person found therein or thereon as if authorised to do so by a search warrant issued under section 198 (http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1975/0116/latest/link.aspx?id=DLM314010#DLM314010) of the Summary Proceedings Act 1957 and by subsection (1).

They cannot demand a fingerprint or DNA sample from you unless you have been arrested and charged - however they can ask you to volunteer one.


Consider that perhaps some of us simply don't want the cops to have a piccie of us and don't want to be treated like criminals.

I must admit to being a little perturbed about the photographic aspect. While there is bountiful legislation giving Police power to photograph people once arrested I cannot find the relevant legislation that gives them the right to photograph people without arresting this. You have raised an interesting point here and it is something that I WILL discuss with my fellow BRONZ members. This may be something worth looking into, and depending on the results of this I will be willing to concede my former opinion on this.


Targeting law abiding motorists is simply sending out the wrong message. These ACC sponsored cop stops should be voluntary, with a free cup of coffee (did I mention doughnut?) and helmet wipe to go with the advice/lecture.

I can totally see where you are coming from here. The coffee and helmet wipe is a fantastic idea and I''ll pass along your suggestions to those in BRONZ who have the ear of ACC via the MSL committee. I'm not sure on the doughnuts - I'm not sure we could trust the Police around those. At the end of the day I believe they are actually trying to do the right thing here (as believe it or not, so am I) and it's entirely possible it's coming across completely the wrong way. But rather than completely blast those trying to make a difference, instead let's look at what works, and what doesn't and give the feedback back to ACC and Police, and see if there's a way to revise what's happening so that motorcyclists aren't turned off, and start hearing the message they're trying to say.

{takes BRONZ hat off}

I WANT my ACC levy to go down. I don't want my riding curtailed. And I certainly don't want a tiny minority of idiots to ruin it for all of us. And sometimes I will get very passionate about it. Sorry if I offended anyone - I was merely trying to get some people to understand that we can't just bleat on about rights because TPTB basically don't CARE about our rights- we ARE a minority - and as such we will get trampled on by the needs of the majority. It sucks but that's life. I don't view what they're doing as particularly Machiavellian (the picture taking notwithstanding) but I am curious to know more.

Can someone PM me some more information and evidence of what they're doing?

[puddytat]

Can you refuse to take your helmet off? Or will they arrest you & make you take it off at the station for the picture?
Oooh I now see that the fella above is looking into this.....
Kinda glad I do it only on the track now, what with one thing & another

[riffer]

Can you refuse to take your helmet off? Or will they arrest you & make you take it off at the station for the picture?

I have no idea. I'd like to hear from people who've personally been stopped and had the police ask to take their picture. AFAIK there's no legal requirement to do so.

IANAL but usually if a policeman requires you to perform a task they will quote the relevant legislation and reason for the request. If they don't you shouldn't legally have to comply if you don't want to.

[Berries]

Passing this one on to my contacts in ACC & NZTA, tis too easy not to. Some might complain they're being targetted though?
Probably be as useful as the personalised plates bollocks they send out at the moment. Have you seen the crap they have on the NZTA website ?


Can you refuse to take your helmet off? Or will they arrest you & make you take it off at the station for the picture?
If they want the photo with the helmet off then it isn't going to be much use catching those naughty people when riding. I really can't see the point of the photo thing at all. Helmet on ? Oooh, look. Matt black helmet. That'll be Sid.

I think it is just for a wankfest back at the station.

[munster]

I guess it just reminds me of the old school days when the teacher kept the whole class in because some dickhead at the back was being a wanker.

Just picking on bikes IS discriminatory, especially on the Coro Loop. One person above has already mentioned cars with boats not staying on their side of the white line. From my own experience on the loop I can add trucks, buses, 4WD's etc. Where's their targeted safety campaign?

[swbarnett]

I don't want my riding curtailed. And I certainly don't want a tiny minority of idiots to ruin it for all of us.

It has become very clear to me lately from comments like that above that a lot of people just don't get human nature. There will always be idiots that any "sensible" rider would rather didn't exist and there's nothing we can do to change this. We may be able to reduce the number of said idiots but they will always be with us to some degree. This is just the nature of the beast.

Another point I take issue with is the thought that these "idiots" are causing us grief in the form of unwanted attention from government and law enforcement. It's the dis-proportinate response of TPTB that's the problem. Just as a teacher has no right to detain the whole class based on the actions of one individual.

[doc]

Coro loop has been heading for this treatment for a longtime. Poker runs are probably the next thing on the agenda. Organised drink driving for many.

[Fatt Max]

I just hope that the cops wave.....

[Pixie]

Shit, how can so many of you be so fucking obtuse?

The point is this:If you are doing no wrong,who has the right to stop you and upset your day because they assume you are about commit an offence?
Considering that most NZers are so proud their forefathers fought against the Nazis,it is surprising that so many of you are so willing to accept police state behaviour from the authorities.

Wake the fuck up or continue to bend over and spread those cheeks - your choice.

Oh,and start saving for the next levy increase.:no:

[Maha]

Is it a given that an attempt to photogragh the bike owner will take place or is a conclusion jumping thing at this stage?
One mention of it somewhere early in the thread and its read as gospel.
I heard the cops were going to 'roger' every Suzuki owner.

[Katman]

The point is this:If you are doing no wrong,who has the right to stop you and upset your day because they assume you are about commit an offence?


You're obviously easily upset.

[yungatart]

'waste his time'??:scratch:

WTF, dya think he gets paid by the number of bikes he stops???:blink:

He's there for his shift - how long YOU hold him up is of no concern to him.

But if it made ya feel better......

No, it didn't make me feel better.
I was livid.
I was the fifth vehicle in a line of 13, all trundling along doing nothing wrong, and I was the only one singled out for his special treatment.
What else could I have done? Nothing, nadda, not a single solitary thing...and that is precisely the point!
He had no reason to pick me out of the line of traffic, I had done nothing wrong. He was just an arse. I could have ranted and raved....but then I would have failed the attitude test!
So I took my time 'finding' my licence all the while watching his anticipatory grin get bigger at the thought that I wouldn't be able to produce the required bit of plastic....ka ching!
Pathetic protest I know, but very little else available to me.

[Eyegasm]

Read the whole thread...
can sum it up in one word...

Whinge

218694

[Fatt Max]

I heard the cops were going to 'roger' every Suzuki owner.

Fuck it, why did I buy that Aquilla......oh well...

[Grubber]

Shit, how can so many of you be so fucking obtuse?

The point is this:If you are doing no wrong,who has the right to stop you and upset your day because they assume you are about commit an offence?
Considering that most NZers are so proud their forefathers fought against the Nazis,it is surprising that so many of you are so willing to accept police state behaviour from the authorities.

Wake the fuck up or continue to bend over and spread those cheeks - your choice.

Oh,and start saving for the next levy increase.:no:

You want police state....then i suggest you go to Thailand or Singapore even.
Wouldn't get too hung up on a cop having a wee chat just to make sure all is well.
Huge over reaction IMHO.:done:

[aprilia_RS250]

Sorry but I'm very worried about my tyres cooling down if I get pulled over. Need them warm and sticky for those stunning corners on the loop.

[The Pastor]

Hardly surprising (http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/road-safety-issues/waikato-eastern-area/2009.pdf)

am I reading that correct when it clearly shows speed as NOT the biggest killer, but failing to give way is?

[imdying]

Having a national organisation run by people who use their brains is a good thing IMO. I'm glad this one at least isn't as thick as some of the numpties posting in this thread.

[Genie]

Is it a given that an attempt to photogragh the bike owner will take place or is a conclusion jumping thing at this stage?
One mention of it somewhere early in the thread and its read as gospel.
I heard the cops were going to 'roger' every Suzuki owner.

sorry love you have it wrong...it's the Honda rider that gets the roger!

[Maha]

Fuck it, why did I buy that Aquilla......oh well...

Reports just in that there have been a large number of trade ins over the last few hours on Suzuki bikes within the Waikato/Auckland area.

[Fatt Max]

Having a national organisation run by people who use their brains is a good thing IMO. I'm glad this one at least isn't as thick as some of the numpties posting in this thread.

Cant help being a numpty, goes with the hovercraft full of eels that I ordered from Belgium along with a small stick, 3 black rubber oranges, a bag of fresh air and my exploding trousers.

Can I see Dr Nesbit now, the voices in my head are telling that the elephants want to sharpen their ikky wikky tikky sticks.

You've got nice hair and I want to lick your eyebrows

Garumph.....

[duckonin]

I guess it just reminds me of the old school days when the teacher kept the whole class in because some dickhead at the back was being a wanker.

Just picking on bikes IS discriminatory, especially on the Coro Loop. One person above has already mentioned cars with boats not staying on their side of the white line. From my own experience on the loop I can add trucks, buses, 4WD's etc. Where's their targeted safety campaign?

But that is the norm on all roads in this country,idjits not staying on their side of the road...

Plus add Motorbikes to your list...:sweatdrop

[red mermaid]

Police do have operations targetting trucks, buses, Suv's, vehicles towing boat trailers all the time.

Funnily enough when I take part in them the majority of drivers thank for me the work and say how great it is to see it happening.

Why is it that whingers only seem to ride bikes?

[buellbabe]

My 2c is this...if ya ride like an lunatic then expect to get pinged at some point. And if you go through a random 'safety stop' or whatever they wanna call it, is that really gonna ruin ya day? On the other hand I kinda agree with what Mom said about the potential to piss people off just before they hit the loop and riding angry is never good. So I guess I am sitting on the fence a bit...But then if you are the type of person who will get OTT offended/irritated by a random stop then I question whether you should be riding...

BTW, I happened to ride the loop on friday just past, a gorgeous day and we had a great ride, passed 2 cop cars parked up along the coast road and saw at least another 3 in total during the day but so what? We were having fun but we weren't being idiots.

The Coro Loop is known for its carnage rate and thats probably the last time I will ride it til Summer is over cos I really don't like sharing the road with tryhard/wannabe GP riders.

FYI I have been stopped randomly on occasion and the cop was completely honest with me and said he just wanted to gawp at the bike, he was really keen on becoming a Buell owner himself! I just had to laugh and no, I didn't mind getting pulled over as I knew I had been doing nothing wrong and it was only 5 mins out of my day...:whistle:

[Big Dave]

Why is it that whingers only seem to ride bikes?

Better online forums.



It's not hard to fathom what is going on. Talk to some of the locals and the speed of bikes concerns Mavis of Kautunu greatly - they talk to the powers that be and steps are taken for the 'better good'.

It doesn't bother me. I ride at adventure bike speeds, all my paperwork is in order and I'd rather the resources were tied up in visible preemptive measures than clandestine punitive action. No doubt there will be both - 'if' there is anything to the rumour? at all.

[Max Preload]

That would be my objection to it too, particularly if they want to take my photo - which isn't actually beyond their power to do as you are in a public place...


As in Nelson,they will probably take your photo and you may be the lucky recipient of a motorcycle safety lecture from a non-riding 23 year old constable.Neither of which you have to submit to. Carry a balaclava and earplugs.

[Scuba_Steve]

Police do have operations targetting trucks, buses, Suv's, vehicles towing boat trailers all the time.

Funnily enough when I take part in them the majority of drivers thank for me the work and say how great it is to see it happening.

Why is it that whingers only seem to ride bikes?

Your location says Manawatu but you story says Imagination...

[chasio]

Cant help being a numpty, goes with the hovercraft full of eels that I ordered from Belgium along with a small stick, 3 black rubber oranges, a bag of fresh air and my exploding trousers.

Can I see Dr Nesbit now, the voices in my head are telling that the elephants want to sharpen their ikky wikky tikky sticks.

You've got nice hair and I want to lick your eyebrows

Garumph.....

:first:

You must spread some reputation around blah blah. But you get the most enjoyable post on the thread award, FM

[Edbear]

Mate! the way some folk ride I can see why they think that. We need to all grow up and accept we have a far higher accident rate than we should.


Hardly surprising (http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/road-safety-issues/waikato-eastern-area/2009.pdf)


Didn't notice much of anything personally down here...saw a lot of law enforcement vehicles but nary a one asked me for a chat.

I think good on the police for seeing there is a problem and wanting to do something about it. It may not be the bestest idea in everyones minds but if their work saves one life....then it's worth.

Don't know much about yon Coro Loop other than there have been some rather nasty accidents up there...

If you ride to the rules then it won't be a problem, I think those that complain might just be the ones that need the learn. Sad thing about all the safety messages is that the ones that need to be listening just aren't.


Better online forums.

It's not hard to fathom what is going on. Talk to some of the locals and the speed of bikes concerns Mavis of Kautunu greatly - they talk to the powers that be and steps are taken for the 'better good'.

It doesn't bother me. I ride at adventure bike speeds, all my paperwork is in order and I'd rather the resources were tied up in visible preemptive measures than clandestine punitive action. No doubt there will be both - 'if' there is anything to the rumour? at all.

It's funny how few here understand the why's of it. If the Coro Loop wasn't being treated like a race-track, with numpty's upsetting the locals and crashing so much, this would not be happening.

If you were a resident with children up there and bikers were racing past your driveway at illegal speeds on a regular basis, making too much noise and inconsiderately endangering your kids who may be riding their pushbikes to the neighbours, or you had to go out and pick a biker's brains out of a tree a few times, what would you want to do about it?

If this was the USA you'd find yourself riding at 160km/h+ head on into a fast approaching load of buckshot from an irate local...

[red mermaid]

And your story says ignorance because I have just spent all of my working day today targetting specifically, and only, trucks, buses and diesel powered vehicles.

But then you seem to think you are more expert about my job than me, so...



Your location says Manawatu but you story says Imagination...

[Mom]

I have just spent all of my working day today targetting specifically, and only, trucks, buses and diesel powered vehicles.

Why? </10chars>

[Gremlin]

And your story says ignorance because I have just spent all of my working day today targetting specifically, and only, trucks, buses and diesel powered vehicles.

But then you seem to think you are more expert about my job than me, so...
Couldn't you have thrown in just one motorcycle (an innocent one of course) so we could lynch you? ;)

[Devil]

Why? </10chars>

My guess would be that he's part of the CVIU.

[PrincessBandit]

What has? Photos? Have been stopped twice in these road blocks but no photos...

Time to start wearing my most fetching fake nose, moustache and buck teeth when I go out riding.

[Spearfish]

Time to start wearing my most fetching fake nose, moustache and buck teeth when I go out riding.


But then you could be accused of anything I do, anyway you have a choice to look like that I don't!

[Scuba_Steve]

And your story says ignorance because I have just spent all of my working day today targetting specifically, and only, trucks, buses and diesel powered vehicles.

But then you seem to think you are more expert about my job than me, so...

wasn't questioning who you were trying to scam, I was questioning the responses you got. Are you sure instead of "thanks" it wasn't "why don't you just piss off and do your fucking job for once!". That is more the Manawatu response (or at the very least thoughts)
Everyone I know who has lived there (and owns a vehicle) no longer have respect the P.I.G.s

[red mermaid]

Perhaps you should look at the people you know then.

I get thanked for about 90% of the contacts I have and that wasn't counting the pedestrians who walked past me today at the spot I was in and gave me the big thumbs up.

Even got a wave from a few bike riders.



wasn't questioning who you were trying to scam, I was questioning the responses you got. Are you sure instead of "thanks" it wasn't "why don't you just piss off and do your fucking job for once!". That is more the Manawatu response (or at the very least thoughts)
Everyone I know who has lived there (and owns a vehicle) no longer have respect the P.I.G.s

[Max Preload]

You're right though. Beaches are treated the same as petrol station forecourts and supermarket car parks, ie anywhere the public has vehicle access.Not just vehicle access. 'Any place to which the public has access, whether as of right or not' is a road.

[Scuba_Steve]

Perhaps you should look at the people you know then.

I get thanked for about 90% of the contacts I have and that wasn't counting the pedestrians who walked past me today at the spot I was in and gave me the big thumbs up.

Even got a wave from a few bike riders.

maybee you are the exception to the rule (Through my years living there I did manage to meet 1 decent cop, but only 1), but I don't know who your talking to?, the people I know range greatly in profession & age but most are over 30 & "professional".
Fact still remains tho, you add NOTHING to society with these "operations", the Manawatu has a BIG "P" problem, how bout sorting that?
Hell I'm pretty sure at last check Palmerston North had highest concentration of Cops... Also the highest concentration of crime & why? cause as they say "Crime doesn't pay", it's people with vehicles that bring in the money.

[Squiggles]

maybee you are the exception to the rule (Through my years living there I did manage to meet 1 decent cop, but only 1), but I don't know who your talking to?, the people I know range greatly in profession & age but most are over 30 & "professional".
Fact still remains tho, you add NOTHING to society with these "operations", the Manawatu has a BIG "P" problem, how bout sorting that?
Hell I'm pretty sure at last check Palmerston North had highest concentration of Cops... Also the highest concentration of crime & why? cause as they say "Crime doesn't pay", it's people with vehicles that bring in the money.

<img src="http://www.mediabistro.com/unbeige/original/my%20head%20hurts.jpg"></img>

[Fatt Max]

Time to start wearing my most fetching fake nose, moustache and buck teeth when I go out riding.

Oh, so all that is fake then..........:gob:

[scumdog]

Read the whole thread...
can sum it up in one word...

Whinge

218694

Whingefest to the max I'd say!:yes::rolleyes:

If any more sky falls all these Chicken-littles will be flattened;)

[scumdog]

maybee you are the exception to the rule (Through my years living there I did manage to meet 1 decent cop, but only 1), but I don't know who your talking to?, the people I know range greatly in profession & age but most are over 30 & "professional".
Fact still remains tho, you add NOTHING to society with these "operations", the Manawatu has a BIG "P" problem, how bout sorting that?
Hell I'm pretty sure at last check Palmerston North had highest concentration of Cops... Also the highest concentration of crime & why? cause as they say "Crime doesn't pay", it's people with vehicles that bring in the money.


Why don't you and all the other Chicken-littles bugger off and get the country sorted out - y'all seem to know what's wrong with it...

[SMOKEU]

Why don't you and all the other Chicken-littles bugger off and get the country sorted out - y'all seem to know what's wrong with it...

Because then we would all end up K9.

[Scuba_Steve]

Why don't you and all the other Chicken-littles bugger off and get the country sorted out - y'all seem to know what's wrong with it...

Don't worry I'm working on it, Ya'll just vote "Democracy New Zealand" if you see it come up on the election papers alright.

[riffer]

So 148 posts, and still not one shred of evidence to support the OP's speculation that there were Police plans to stop "every" motorcyclist entering the Coro loop and also photograph them, and a shitload of wingeing, moaning and baiting, and a small amount of intelligent comment. Fairly typical, sadly, for Kiwibiker.

I'm a patient man. I will allow you another 24 hours to produce the evidence to support this theory. If you can I'll request the subject be brought up at the next MSL meeting. If you can't I'm walking away.

We can't help you guys if you can't give us anything to go on but speculation and supposition. I've had the same conversation with Candor and currently this is all starting to look a lot the same.

Prove me wrong - please.

[AD345]

Shit, how can so many of you be so fucking obtuse?

The point is this:If you are doing no wrong,who has the right to stop you and upset your day because they assume you are about commit an offence?
Considering that most NZers are so proud their forefathers fought against the Nazis,it is surprising that so many of you are so willing to accept police state behaviour from the authorities.

Wake the fuck up or continue to bend over and spread those cheeks - your choice.

Oh,and start saving for the next levy increase.:no:

This guy gets it

It's not about the police's legal right to do this - they get the powers that we give them and accept

It's not about the size of the intrusion - its the fact of it.

At what point do you clowns who think this is nothing to worry about, draw the line?

When are YOUR personal freedoms obstructed by the state? Do you even think about it? Do you even realise that everything (absolutely everything) that you might fondly think of as an inalienable right was hard fought for and was not bestowed upon you by the miracle of your birth

How the fuck do you think your rights are defined?

Cos I can tell you how they are taken away

piece

by piece.

[riffer]

This guy gets it

It's not about the police's legal right to do this - they get the powers that we give them and accept

It's not about the size of the intrusion - its the fact of it.

At what point do you clowns who think this is nothing to worry about, draw the line?

When are YOUR personal freedoms obstructed by the state? Do you even think about it? Do you even realise that everything (absolutely everything) that you might fondly think of as an inalienable right was hard fought for and was not bestowed upon you by the miracle of your birth

How the fuck do you think your rights are defined?

Cos I can tell you how they are taken away

piece

by piece.

What "rights" do you believe are being infringed? Police have had the power to stop ANY vehicle on ANY road for ANY reason for years. Please explain the change to this law and how it affects YOUR RIGHTS.

As for the photography, PLEASE PROVIDE EVIDENCE.

I can't be any clearer than this.

[bogan]

What "rights" do you believe are being infringed? Police have had the power to stop ANY vehicle on ANY road for ANY reason for years. Please explain the change to this law and how it affects YOUR RIGHTS.

As for the photography, PLEASE PROVIDE EVIDENCE.

I can't be any clearer than this.

Being singled out because of your vehicle type, rather than your actions doesn't sit right with me, and many others, theres even a word for it, discrimination. Haven't we taken enough of that with the ACC bs?

[riffer]

Being singled out because of your vehicle type, rather than your actions doesn't sit right with me, and many others, theres even a word for it, discrimination. Haven't we taken enough of that with the ACC bs?

Yes but where's the evidence? Come on bogan, the original poster alluded to this being a Police initiative. So far it's all piss and wind...

[bogan]

Yes but where's the evidence? Come on bogan, the original poster alluded to this being a Police initiative. So far it's all piss and wind...

as I said in post #10, if confirmed something should be done. Obviously if its not happening nothing needs to be done, and theres nothing wrong with a bit of piss and wind, gets the thinkerer going ;)

[AD345]

What "rights" do you believe are being infringed? Police have had the power to stop ANY vehicle on ANY road for ANY reason for years. Please explain the change to this law and how it affects YOUR RIGHTS.

As for the photography, PLEASE PROVIDE EVIDENCE.

I can't be any clearer than this.

As far as I know the photography, if real, was mentioned as happening in Nelson. I have made no reference to this.

If the asserted stoppages do indeed turn out to be true then the right which I would feel is being eroded is the right to move freely about my country without fear of detention. Explicitly I object to being denied freedom of movement without even so much as suspicion of commiting a crime.

The police may well have the power to do this - but they should not. If they have no reason to even suspect me of commiting a crime then they should have no authority to prevent or detain me from going about my lawful business.

Pretty basic stuf I would have thought

[onearmedbandit]

If one was to enter a government (for example) building that had it stated that you will be subject to random searches would you not enter said building, or would you enter and be happy to oblige, or would you enter and complain every time you got stopped?

Because I don't think we own the roads do we? If so, I'm making a whole new set of rules that suit me.

[puddytat]

This guy gets it

It's not about the police's legal right to do this - they get the powers that we give them and accept

It's not about the size of the intrusion - its the fact of it.

At what point do you clowns who think this is nothing to worry about, draw the line?

When are YOUR personal freedoms obstructed by the state? Do you even think about it? Do you even realise that everything (absolutely everything) that you might fondly think of as an inalienable right was hard fought for and was not bestowed upon you by the miracle of your birth

How the fuck do you think your rights are defined?

Cos I can tell you how they are taken away

piece

by piece.

You got to spread it around blablahblah......

We tend to forget that we only got the right to vote a bit over a 100 years ago.....and the instigation of martial law for example, removes that right when ever a Govt. chooses....:eek5:

[riffer]

The police may well have the power to do this - but they should not. If they have no reason to even suspect me of commiting a crime then they should have no authority to prevent or detain me from going about my lawful business.

And here's the rub. What the are doing is perfectly legal, and perfectly acceptable. You just don't like it.

Simple dislike of another parties lawful activity does not a rights infringement make. Your rights are not infringed. Your argument is therefore invalid.

Thanks for the discussion. It's been interesting but I think it's done its course now. Over and out.

[Mom]

I think that this discussion has only just begun to be fair. But each to their own, we are all entitled to our own opinions :yes:

[Scuba_Steve]

And here's the rub. What the are doing is perfectly legal, and perfectly acceptable. You just don't like it.

Simple dislike of another parties lawful activity does not a rights infringement make. Your rights are not infringed. Your argument is therefore invalid.

Thanks for the discussion. It's been interesting but I think it's done its course now. Over and out.

I wound't say "perfectly legal" there is the law they love to ignore which states
Unreasonable search and seizure
Everyone has the right to be secure against unreasonable search or seizure, whether of the person, property, or correspondence or otherwise.

I would say a search of WOF/License's with no other reason than "you ride a bike" to be unreasonable, wouldn't you???

[riffer]

I wound't say "perfectly legal" there is the law they love to ignore which states
Unreasonable search and seizure
Everyone has the right to be secure against unreasonable search or seizure, whether of the person, property, or correspondence or otherwise.

I would say a search of WOF/License's with no other reason than "you ride a bike" to be unreasonable, wouldn't you???

NO I think you will find that have that one covered by another law which allows them to do that.

[AD345]

And here's the rub. What the are doing is perfectly legal, and perfectly acceptable. You just don't like it.

Simple dislike of another parties lawful activity does not a rights infringement make. Your rights are not infringed. Your argument is therefore invalid.

Thanks for the discussion. It's been interesting but I think it's done its course now. Over and out.


You know - I learn something every day

Apparently moron's can spell

Who knew?

[Scuba_Steve]

NO I think you will find that have that one covered by another law which allows them to do that.

which 1? I know they have the right to pull you up and determine your identity & weather you own the vehicle but I cant remember seeing where they could "search" your vehicle without good reason (like weapons, drugs).

[civil]

Police have had the power to stop ANY vehicle on ANY road for ANY reason for years.

So what section of what Act allows this to occur?

The State can only do as statute permits, as opposed to myself that can do as I like unless a statue restricts me.

So show me the evidence that I can be restricted from coming and going along a public byway without cause?

[scumdog]

So what section of what Act allows this to occur?

The State can only do as statute permits,

You can be stopped anywhere anytime you are driving/riding a vehicle on a road

I think that is clear enough.

If I'm wrong?
Show me where?

Then I'll stop doing it.

[civil]

You can be stopped anywhere anytime you are driving/riding a vehicle on a road

I think that is clear enough.


If this is so clear then what is the section of what Act are the Police acting under when they do it?

Or is it a matter of people forgetting they are free?

[scumdog]

If this is so clear then what is the section of what Act are the Police acting under when they do it?

Or is it a matter of people forgetting they are free?

Look it up yourself lazy-arse...I can't be naffed.

Tell ya what, DON'T stop and find out what the section is if you want...

[riffer]

So what section of what Act allows this to occur?

The State can only do as statute permits, as opposed to myself that can do as I like unless a statue restricts me.

So show me the evidence that I can be restricted from coming and going along a public byway without cause?

Enforcement officers include


the Police
non-sworn members of the Police who’ve been authorised for the relevant purpose by the Police Commissioner
employees of the NZ Transport Agency who are appointed for certain purposes, such as enforcing rules about driving hours and logbooks.

Police and other enforcement officers have these powers to require you to stop.


An officer can signal or request you to stop, provided they’re in uniform or wearing a distinctive cap, hat or helmet with a police or other badge attached.
An officer in a vehicle following behind you can require you to stop by displaying flashing blue (or blue and red) lights, or by sounding a siren.
An officer can require you to stop and remain stopped as long as is reasonably necessary to get the following information from you

your full name, full address, date of birth, occupation and telephone number
whether you’re the owner of the vehicle
if you’re not the owner of the vehicle, the name and address of the owner or other details identifying the owner.

An officer can require you to remain stopped for as long as is reasonably necessary to establish your identity, but for no more than 15 minutes.
Penalties for failing to stop and give details

You can be arrested if you fail to stop and give your details when you’re required to, including if you give false or misleading information. You can be fined up to $10,000. The Police can also seize and impound your vehicle for 28 days (http://www.lawaccess.lsa.govt.nz/Lrm_V2.aspx?BookId=78&ChapterId=5#_Mandatory_28-day_impounding) if you fail to stop when they direct you to.
If you’re convicted a second time of failing to stop and give your details, you’ll automatically be disqualified for three months. If you’re convicted for a third or further time, the penalty is a prison term of up to three months and automatic disqualification for one year.
If you fail to stop and give your details and at the same time you were speeding or otherwise driving dangerously, you’ll automatically be disqualified for three months.
These disqualifications are added on to any other disqualification you’re given for the particular incident.
Failing to stop and give your details to the Police will also be treated as an aggravating factor when you’re being sentenced for dangerous or reckless driving or for failing to stop at the scene of an accident that you’d been involved in.

[scumdog]

'must spread some rep'

[NONONO]

NO I think you will find that have that one covered by another law which allows them to do that.
Your argument appears to be that as it is lawful, it must be OK...have I got that right?
Secondly you imply that anyone who opposes a lawful action (or set of actions), discriminatory or not, is somehow some kind of moaning, pinko...
Where have I heard this before.........?

[Grumpy]

Below is a quote from post by Roadsafe Nelson in a similar thread on the same initative that was conducted in Nelson back in June.

"Whilst out riding with friends a couple of months ago, we were pulled over at one such checkpoint in the Whangamoas (heading towards Blenheim). Motorcyclists were taken to the side, our rego/wof/riding gear & licences were checked. Bottled water & refreshments were offered.

In attendance at the checkpoint were a variety of people. The Police, The Tasman District Council & the local Nelson Injury Prevention Office for ACC. They were interested in collecting information from the motorcyclists stopped, on what our concerns were when riding on the road.. eg: gravel/road works & lack of signage, other road users, road conditions etc. Feedback from this collected information is to be handed onto the relevant organisations concerned.. eg: roading companies

As a result of the information collected a flier has just been released locally with relevant contact details available for motorcyclists to contact & raise their concerns to.

To note.. ALL traffic was stopped at this checkpoint & ALL licence's/rego & wofs were checked, not just motorcyclists.

Feedback I heard from the TDC was that a very high proportion of the bikers stopped were correctly licenced & had current rego/wofs.. & were wearing appropriate gear.

Personally I felt heard & respected by the people conducting the checkpoint."

This seems to be a reasonable way to handle a rather senstive problem.

[Ocean1]

So show me the evidence that I can be restricted from coming and going along a public byway without cause?

Find it yourself, It's there. The result of a wee tweak to the law about two years ago IIRC.

The constabulary no longer require reasonable suspicion of anything in order to detain or question you.

You didn't notice?

[civil]

Enforcement officers include


the Police
non-sworn members of the Police who’ve been authorised for the relevant purpose by the Police Commissioner
employees of the NZ Transport Agency who are appointed for certain purposes, such as enforcing rules about driving hours and logbooks.

Police and other enforcement officers have these powers to require you to stop.


An officer can signal or request you to stop, provided they’re in uniform or wearing a distinctive cap, hat or helmet with a police or other badge attached.
An officer in a vehicle following behind you can require you to stop by displaying flashing blue (or blue and red) lights, or by sounding a siren.
An officer can require you to stop and remain stopped as long as is reasonably necessary to get the following information from you

your full name, full address, date of birth, occupation and telephone number
whether you’re the owner of the vehicle
if you’re not the owner of the vehicle, the name and address of the owner or other details identifying the owner.

An officer can require you to remain stopped for as long as is reasonably necessary to establish your identity, but for no more than 15 minutes.
Penalties for failing to stop and give details

You can be arrested if you fail to stop and give your details when you’re required to, including if you give false or misleading information. You can be fined up to $10,000. The Police can also seize and impound your vehicle for 28 days (http://www.lawaccess.lsa.govt.nz/Lrm_V2.aspx?BookId=78&ChapterId=5#_Mandatory_28-day_impounding) if you fail to stop when they direct you to.
If you’re convicted a second time of failing to stop and give your details, you’ll automatically be disqualified for three months. If you’re convicted for a third or further time, the penalty is a prison term of up to three months and automatic disqualification for one year.
If you fail to stop and give your details and at the same time you were speeding or otherwise driving dangerously, you’ll automatically be disqualified for three months.
These disqualifications are added on to any other disqualification you’re given for the particular incident.
Failing to stop and give your details to the Police will also be treated as an aggravating factor when you’re being sentenced for dangerous or reckless driving or for failing to stop at the scene of an accident that you’d been involved in.


What section of what Act is this from?

Is there any cause required before the enforcement officer can act as such?

[civil]

Enforcement officers include


the Police
non-sworn members of the Police who’ve been authorised for the relevant purpose by the Police Commissioner
employees of .................................


What section of what Act is this from?

Is there any cause required before the enforcement officer can act as such?

[scumdog]

Is there any cause required before the enforcement officer can act as such?

No,
Nope,
Nada,
None.

Clear?

[Fatt Max]

Hang on a minute, I have joined this debate rather late I'm afraid.

I see posts about bikes and cops.......fucking hell, please tell me C4 is not screening re runs of CHiPs.......!!....go Jon and Ponch you pair of doughnut punchers you.....(_i_)

[civil]

What section of what Act is this from?



Anyone know?

[Scuba_Steve]

Anyone know?

yea check this

Section 2(1) Land Transport Act 1998
http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1998/0110/latest/DLM433619.html?search=ts_all%40act%40bill%40regula tion_transport+act_noresel&p=1

But I still haven't seen the law that allows the police unreasonable search authority

[scumdog]

Anyone know?

Not me....:innocent:

[puddytat]

Anyone know?

Paragraph 4, Act 3 of Pride & Predjudice?:scratch:

[civil]

Find it yourself, It's there. The result of a wee tweak to the law about two years ago IIRC.

The constabulary no longer require reasonable suspicion of anything in order to detain or question you.

You didn't notice?

I'm not the one making the claim.

Sort of like 'you have weapons of mass destruction. Now prove you don't before I came over and kick the shit out of you!!!' But then that one has already been used if I recall.

If this super power to stop and detain me without nature and cause exists in NZ staute then where is it? We can then compare it to the one in Fiji, Cuba, Venezuela and the liike.

[civil]

yea check this

Section 2(1) Land Transport Act 1998
http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1998/0110/latest/DLM433619.html?search=ts_all%40act%40bill%40regula tion_transport+act_noresel&p=1

But I still haven't seen the law that allows the police unreasonable search authority

'Transport Act 1962, s2 Interpretation' This is the section that has the meanings of the words defined for use in the Act. While it is a clue, it is not the section that gives authority. This section is typlically used to re-define words from their normal comon meanings.

[R6_kid]

So improve the motorcycle test. Subsidise training days. Send driving offenders off to training courses. Put some riding advice in motorcycle magazines and websites (hey...Kiwibiker). Perhaps a pamphlet with riding advice in the same envelope as our rego renewal letter. We're not all born again Sunday warriors and I don't particularly want nor need some ACC sponsored copper to pull me over every week because I've had the audacity to visit a mate in the Coro on a motorcycle.

Maybe the following week they could stop all the "boaties" going up the Coro and tell them they really should learn to drive around tight blind corners on their own side of the road. Can't see it happening though. Imagine the outcry in the AA magazine.

All good ideas - your first four are all being done, except of course for improving the test, the whole scheme should be improved in that case, for all road users. You're right, we're not all born again Sunday warriors but then again we're not all saints with our heads screwed on either and maybe that little inconvenience of being stopped and warned about the hazards will allow some of those people to pull their heads in and not end up requiring to be scraped off the road later in the day.

As for your idea for the boaties on the Coro - brilliant. Why not be proactive and make a submission to the local constabulary?

[R6_kid]

I'm not the one making the claim.

Sort of like 'you have weapons of mass destruction. Now prove you don't before I came over and kick the shit out of you!!!' But then that one has already been used if I recall.

If this super power to stop and detain me without nature and cause exists in NZ staute then where is it? We can then compare it to the one in Fiji, Cuba, Venezuela and the liike.

Paranoid much? Up to the point where they record your details and take your photo do you really have anything to worry about? Unless those things actually happen then is there really a problem or are you just bitching because your believe your time is far to valuable. If you really have an exception to it then when you stop just tell them thanks but no thanks and go from there.

Storm in a teacup if you ask me.

[scracha]

Perhaps you should look at the people you know then.

I get thanked for about 90% of the contacts I have and that wasn't counting the pedestrians who walked past me today at the spot I was in and gave me the big thumbs up.

Even got a wave from a few bike riders.

You're clearly delusional. Thumbs up means "please don't ping me you fascist pig". "yes, thank you for stopping me, I have listened to everything you have said and I am clearly in the wrong". As for job satisfaction from busybodies giving you the thumbs up, gimmie a break. I suspect the SS got the thumbs up for putting Jews in the ghettos too.

At least Scummy has the brains to know he is merely a tool of whatever lobbying group or department the government has an ear towards. At least Scummy has the decency to admit that it is merely a job and he loves it.

[Bodir]

I don't mind getting stopped IF ALL road users get stopped. If its only bikes, the yes I feel discriminated. Same goes if I would sit in a car and all bikes and trucks etc don't get stopped. It is the we stop only this vehicle that gets me :)

[Tone165]

Just for interest, the photographing of "innocent" motorcyclists has been going on for some time here in Qld (Aussie).

Short of claiming conspiracy...there seems to be a growing belief that we are coming in for more attention than we are due for.

As for the legality...well they are the Police aren't they....so it must be legal right?

This may be a side effect of the anti association laws they are trying to sell as "Anti Bikie" laws.

[swbarnett]

Because I don't think we own the roads do we?
Collectively, yes, we do own the roads. They are, afterall, a public assett and you and I are members of the "public" last time I checked.

[onearmedbandit]

Collectively, yes, we do own the roads. They are, afterall, a public assett and you and I are members of the "public" last time I checked.

A friend and I were discussing this tonight, and he suggested that the crown own them. Regardless, our right to use them is governed by those who manage the roads, in this case the government. They set the rules, if we want to play, we have to put up with their rules, which include the ability for the police to pull you over at anytime for any reason.

Not saying I agree with it. But it is the way it is.

If the police want to target buses/cars with caravans/boy racers/cyclists/trucks I bet most people in here wouldn't have an issue with it. Oh wait, it already happens. I can remember blitz's on taxi drivers, school bus drivers, trucks, and not many complained about that. I don't agree with the police stopping someone just to remind them to go easy, but it's in their powers. However if they are doing a wof/rego/license sting I see no problem with that.

[Pixie]

Below is a quote from post by Roadsafe Nelson in a similar thread on the same initative that was conducted in Nelson back in June.

"Whilst out riding with friends a couple of months ago, we were pulled over at one such checkpoint in the Whangamoas (heading towards Blenheim). Motorcyclists were taken to the side, our rego/wof/riding gear & licences were checked. Bottled water & refreshments were offered.

In attendance at the checkpoint were a variety of people. The Police, The Tasman District Council & the local Nelson Injury Prevention Office for ACC. They were interested in collecting information from the motorcyclists stopped, on what our concerns were when riding on the road.. eg: gravel/road works & lack of signage, other road users, road conditions etc. Feedback from this collected information is to be handed onto the relevant organisations concerned.. eg: roading companies

As a result of the information collected a flier has just been released locally with relevant contact details available for motorcyclists to contact & raise their concerns to.

To note.. ALL traffic was stopped at this checkpoint & ALL licence's/rego & wofs were checked, not just motorcyclists.

Feedback I heard from the TDC was that a very high proportion of the bikers stopped were correctly licenced & had current rego/wofs.. & were wearing appropriate gear.

Personally I felt heard & respected by the people conducting the checkpoint."

This seems to be a reasonable way to handle a rather senstive problem.
What problem?
Motorcyclists using the public carriageway?

If someone stops me and offers me some bottled water,I will advise them on how to give themselves an enema with it.

[morsedog]

What problem?
Motorcyclists using the public carriageway?

If someone stops me and offers me some bottled water,I will advise them on how to give themselves an enema with it.

It is this kind of attitude that will only perpetuate the problem. I know that we bikers are being wronged. We should not be targeted by constables and they have no right to stop us for no reason (or at least they shouldn't). But regardless, if a constable stops you instead of being unpleasant try being nice for a change. I do this and I rarely get a ticket, and if enough bikers did this the constables wouldn't stop us anymore. After all riding bikes is only recreation (http://www.chacha.com/category/lifestyle), its not illegal. I am all for the right to ride on the road undisturbed, but hate will only breed more hate and you must be the one to stop the cycle.

[PrincessBandit]

I don't mind getting stopped IF ALL road users get stopped. If its only bikes, the yes I feel discriminated. Same goes if I would sit in a car and all bikes and trucks etc don't get stopped. It is the we stop only this vehicle that gets me :)

Glass half full or half empty??

I don't mind getting stopped. I like feeling special :whistle::msn-wink:

[Fatt Max]

I suppose its the old 'depends on who is doing the stopping' question. For me personally, a whipper snapper cop in a nice warm squad car who has just read a copy of 'Motorcycles For Dummies' would not hold a lot of credence for me, same as an accountant trying to tell me how to hook up a 3 phase welding machine.

If its a bike cop who knows his stuff for example, then fine....

If its a big fat chick in stockings and suspenders holding a pie between her knockers then I really couldnt give a fuck, she could tell me anything.....I would listen..

I get stopped all the time especially by those bastards selling cheap Jenny Craig memberships

[Scuba_Steve]

A friend and I were discussing this tonight, and he suggested that the crown own them. Regardless, our right to use them is governed by those who manage the roads, in this case the government. They set the rules, if we want to play, we have to put up with their rules, which include the ability for the police to pull you over at anytime for any reason.

Not saying I agree with it. But it is the way it is.

If the police want to target buses/cars with caravans/boy racers/cyclists/trucks I bet most people in here wouldn't have an issue with it. Oh wait, it already happens. I can remember blitz's on taxi drivers, school bus drivers, trucks, and not many complained about that. I don't agree with the police stopping someone just to remind them to go easy, but it's in their powers. However if they are doing a wof/rego/license sting I see no problem with that.

But in a Democracy (which we like to think we're in) the people own the government bringing the road ownership back to us [the people] after all we're paying a fuck load for it.

& why do you not mind the WOF & Licence's check? Like I've mentioned this is pushing the right to be free from unreasonable search, as they are pulling you over to Search for a reason to charge you... Would you be so happy if they just came into your home to [again] Search for a reason to charge you whenever they felt like it???

[Grubber]

A friend and I were discussing this tonight, and he suggested that the crown own them. Regardless, our right to use them is governed by those who manage the roads, in this case the government. They set the rules, if we want to play, we have to put up with their rules, which include the ability for the police to pull you over at anytime for any reason.

Not saying I agree with it. But it is the way it is.

If the police want to target buses/cars with caravans/boy racers/cyclists/trucks I bet most people in here wouldn't have an issue with it. Oh wait, it already happens. I can remember blitz's on taxi drivers, school bus drivers, trucks, and not many complained about that. I don't agree with the police stopping someone just to remind them to go easy, but it's in their powers. However if they are doing a wof/rego/license sting I see no problem with that.

Awesome!!!! Well done. Finally someone gets it.
I'm in the heavy transport industry and have been for some 30 years. If you want to see targeted vehicles then i suggest you come and work in my industry. There is these things called Weigh Stations all along the State Highways that frequently haul us in repetitively for no other reason than to check you are obeying rules. It happens in the middle of nowhere too. You can get pulled over by a patrol car, just so he can check your logbook, manifest and any other paperwork you may have to carry with you.
We don't see this as an imposition as such but more as just part of the job.
If you have any idea about trucks you will know they are not that quick at getting back up to speed, unlike a motorbike.
I could go on and on about this but find it would fall on deaf ears in most cases,as there are some riders that feel they are above and beyond all other road users and therefore should not be stopped at any time.
It would appear at times that they feel they are the only ones that deserve to be on the road at any time and that no one else has any targeting issues.

Phew! That will do for now i think...

[Fatt Max]

A cop stops a car on the Coro loop. The cop says to the driver;

"Random check sir, well you please blow into this bag"

to which the driver replies;

"Why's that bro' are your chips hot?"

---------------------------------------------------

Cop sees a car just outside Corromandel Town weaving all over the road. He pulls the car over and the driver falls out of the car in a drunken heap. The cop breathalises him and is shocked to see that he is 8 times over the limitr;

"Good God sir", says the cop, "Do you realise you are eiight times over the legal alchohol limit....!!!"

"Thank fuck for that oss-eef-er", says the driver, "I thought the steering was fucked"

----------------------------------------------------

A good debate this one gys n gals, keep it up

[onearmedbandit]

But in a Democracy (which we like to think we're in) the people own the government bringing the road ownership back to us [the people] after all we're paying a fuck load for it.

It doesn't matter where the ownership lies, the result is still the same.


& why do you not mind the WOF & Licence's check? Like I've mentioned this is pushing the right to be free from unreasonable search, as they are pulling you over to Search for a reason to charge you... Would you be so happy if they just came into your home to [again] Search for a reason to charge you whenever they felt like it???

So let me get this right, are you also against RBT, because the police are pulling everyone over looking for the few drunk drivers at the expense of all the sober drivers?

And as far as them entering my home? Come on, lets be somewhat sensible about this. Your house is your private property, the police need good reason to enter and search. On the roads however, this ain't your private property any longer, you are using roads managed and policed by the government, and part of the agreement in using the roads is that they are used in a safe manner for all road users and members of the public, that your vehicle is of a certain standard, and that you have the right license to us the roads. None of this applies to your house.

[MSTRS]

Wof/rego/licence check stop = fair enough.
Stop for a 'chat' because I was doing something wrong = fair enough.
Stop to lecture on safe riding = fuck off.

I've not had a MVA since 1974. I rather think I know what I'm doing = goodbye.

[caseye]

You can be stopped anywhere anytime you are driving/riding a vehicle on a road

I think that is clear enough.

If I'm wrong?
Show me where?

Then I'll stop doing it.

Truely a Scummy Dog you are! nice one stu. I've neverr agreed with making it possible to random stop anyone, anywhere, anytime, that doesn't make it unlawful, just something I don't agree with.
if I'm pulled over these days I take the lumps and ride on, however if some snot nosed jumped up little pratt with an Adolf Mo started lecturing me about safety, he be asked for his service number, his station and his immediate superiors name and contact details.
I won't suffer more harraement than I am legally obligued to.
Course having said that I'd better not have been doing something silly aye.

[red mermaid]

Ya know, I've given out probably thousands of these bottles of water and no one has ever suggested this.

I'm worried because we are obviously missing the target audience of dickheads.



What problem?
Motorcyclists using the public carriageway?

If someone stops me and offers me some bottled water,I will advise them on how to give themselves an enema with it.

[caseye]

Ya know, I've given out probably thousands of these bottles of water and no one has ever suggested this.

I'm worried because we are obviously missing the target audience of dickheads.

You've posted straight after me, was it my post prompted yours?
You got an Adolf?

[red mermaid]

Yeah, but if you ask nicely we will give you a coffee, or even a bottle of water.


Awesome!!!! Well done. Finally someone gets it.
I'm in the heavy transport industry and have been for some 30 years. If you want to see targeted vehicles then i suggest you come and work in my industry. There is these things called Weigh Stations all along the State Highways that frequently haul us in repetitively for no other reason than to check you are obeying rules. It happens in the middle of nowhere too. You can get pulled over by a patrol car, just so he can check your logbook, manifest and any other paperwork you may have to carry with you.
We don't see this as an imposition as such but more as just part of the job.
If you have any idea about trucks you will know they are not that quick at getting back up to speed, unlike a motorbike.
I could go on and on about this but find it would fall on deaf ears in most cases,as there are some riders that feel they are above and beyond all other road users and therefore should not be stopped at any time.
It would appear at times that they feel they are the only ones that deserve to be on the road at any time and that no one else has any targeting issues.

Phew! That will do for now i think...

[red mermaid]

Only in the good old days.



You've posted straight after me, was it my post prompted yours?
You got an Adolf?

[riffer]

So after all the bollocks we've established they're doing something they've legally been allowed to do since 1962, and while some people are up in arms about being "lectured", they're pretty much doing so because they want to keep people safe.

Wow. that was interesting wasn't it? Can we start talking about REAL rights infringements now? :angry:

[scumdog]

Ya know, I've given out probably thousands of these bottles of water and no one has ever suggested this.

I'm worried because we are obviously missing the target audience of dickheads.


Yeah but this is the interweb where people can be brave with what they say...;)

[scumdog]

What problem?
Motorcyclists using the public carriageway?

If someone stops me and offers me some bottled water,I will advise them on how to give themselves an enema with it.


Suuuuurrre ya would.....:rolleyes:

[98tls]

Suuuuurrre ya would.....:rolleyes:

Any chance if its said to you T you could write down the instructions,never know i might find myself bored with a bottle of water handy sometime.:sweatdrop

[Mom]

Any chance if its said to you T you could write down the instructions,never know i might find myself bored with a bottle of water handy sometime.:sweatdrop

Back in the olden days I trained as a nurse. I managed to literally scare the shit out of a young fella that had roaming hands, when I had to give him a hurry up in the poohs department. Anytime you need to know, feel free to ask :eek5:

[Max Preload]

Tell ya what, DON'T stop and find out what the section is if you want...That's odd. I've never managed to find out even after my many 'failing to stops'. Maybe I'm doing it wrong. After 'failing to stop' do you then have to stop and wait for them to catch up so they can tell you or can you just go to the local Station and ask after explaining why you've qualified to find out? :scratch:

[riffer]

Hi again, I've just got off the phone with the people in the know.

Whilst BRONZ may not support targetting of motorcyclists for revenue gathering, unfortunately look at the Coro Loops record. I must say this group has brought it upon all motorcyclists.

And one more thing... This cannot possibly be MSL funded as NOT ONE CENT has yet been allocated to be spent and likely WILL NOT untill well into 2011.

And furthermore, this has nothing at all to do with ACC. This is purely Police enforcement. It is constitutional in New Zealand that if you are in a public place you do not have the right to stop people taking a photo of you, eg Speed cameras and CCTVs in city centres. Like it or not, this is the way it is.

[Berries]

Ya know, I've given out probably thousands of these bottles of water and no one has ever suggested this.


Police do have operations targetting trucks, buses, Suv's, vehicles towing boat trailers all the time. Funnily enough when I take part in them the majority of drivers thank for me the work and say how great it is to see it happening.
Well now you know what they are really thinking.

[98tls]

Well now you know what they are really thinking.

Rather have them out there than not,no matter what anyones opinion on what/how they target there victims being out there can only be good,had the mis-fortune to sit through an episode of some Kiwi made "Road cops " or similar the other night,fuck theres some retards on the road inclusive of this fat cunt in a van they had pulled over complete with pink stickers from the week before:wacko:tailshaft had fallen out of the bloody thing and all he and his baseball cap on backwards mates had to say was "westside" whilst impersonating a Gorilla:wacko:

[DMNTD]

It is constitutional in New Zealand that if you are in a public place you do not have the right to stop people taking a photo of you, eg Speed cameras and CCTVs in city centres. Like it or not, this is the way it is.

Just to clarify 100%...a Policeman can force you to stand still,helmet off whilst your photo is being taken even if you have NOT broken the law?

[riffer]

Just to clarify 100%...a Policeman can force you to stand still,helmet off whilst your photo is being taken even if you have NOT broken the law?

Why? Has this happened and who has this happened to?

[scracha]

Just to clarify 100%...a Policeman can force you to stand still,helmet off whilst your photo is being taken even if you have NOT broken the law?

I was thinking exactly the same thing. Wonder what the charge would be if you covered your face, looked the other way or just put your helmet back on and told them to fuck off?

[DMNTD]

Why? Has this happened and who has this happened to?

Well, as mentioned near the beginning of this thread, there was talk of photos being taken of motorcyclists entering/on the Coro.
That is why I asked...also your post eluded to it possibly being legal.
Too difficult?

[Scuba_Steve]

Just to clarify 100%...a Policeman can force you to stand still,helmet off whilst your photo is being taken even if you have NOT broken the law?

I cannot find any law that allows this. They can by all means take photos in a public place but you also have the option of covering yourself UNLESS being charged.

[Katman]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the photo side of this is all bullshit and was included by the OP simply in order to make the thread more interesting.

Hell, even I wouldn't willingly pose for my photo. (If I ever get to see my mugshot photo I'm sure it will show a definate unwillingness).

[Genie]

I cannot find any law that allows this, would you care to share???. They can by all means take photos in a public place but you also have the option of covering yourself UNLESS being charged.

Where are you looking for this law?

[Scuba_Steve]

Where are you looking for this law?

legislation.govt.nz

[DMNTD]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the photo side of this is all bullshit was started by the OP in order to make the thread more interesting.

Hell, even I wouldn't willingly pose for my photo. (If I ever get to see my mugshot photo I'm sure it will show a definite unwillingness).

Yeah quite possible mate but not the first time I have heard of it so just attempting to get some clarification.
LOL...my mugshots were never too flash and would only be worse these days :wacko:

[onearmedbandit]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the photo side of this is all bullshit was started by the OP in order to make the thread more interesting.

Hell, even I wouldn't willingly pose for my photo. (If I ever get to see my mugshot photo I'm sure it will show a definate unwillingness).

I thought exactly the same the other night.

[onearmedbandit]

But in a Democracy (which we like to think we're in) the people own the government bringing the road ownership back to us [the people] after all we're paying a fuck load for it.

& why do you not mind the WOF & Licence's check? Like I've mentioned this is pushing the right to be free from unreasonable search, as they are pulling you over to Search for a reason to charge you... Would you be so happy if they just came into your home to [again] Search for a reason to charge you whenever they felt like it???


It doesn't matter where the ownership lies, the result is still the same.



So let me get this right, are you also against RBT, because the police are pulling everyone over looking for the few drunk drivers at the expense of all the sober drivers?

And as far as them entering my home? Come on, lets be somewhat sensible about this. Your house is your private property, the police need good reason to enter and search. On the roads however, this ain't your private property any longer, you are using roads managed and policed by the government, and part of the agreement in using the roads is that they are used in a safe manner for all road users and members of the public, that your vehicle is of a certain standard, and that you have the right license to us the roads. None of this applies to your house.

Any reply?

[Max Preload]

Just to clarify 100%...a Policeman can force you to stand still,helmet off whilst your photo is being taken even if you have NOT broken the law?

No. S/He cannot. You are not obliged to participate, unless arrested, once you have been identified (which is what your photo drivers license does).

[NONONO]

Hi again, I've just got off the phone with the people in the know.

Whilst BRONZ may not support targetting of motorcyclists for revenue gathering, unfortunately look at the Coro Loops record. I must say this group has brought it upon all motorcyclists.

And one more thing... This cannot possibly be MSL funded as NOT ONE CENT has yet been allocated to be spent and likely WILL NOT untill well into 2011.

And furthermore, this has nothing at all to do with ACC. This is purely Police enforcement. It is constitutional in New Zealand that if you are in a public place you do not have the right to stop people taking a photo of you, eg Speed cameras and CCTVs in city centres. Like it or not, this is the way it is.

Absolutely Riffer, not one cent ha s been spent yet...YET?
What are you proposing to spend our money on..?
Nothing to do with ACC.:yes:
For gods sake, stop and think.......or piss or get off the pot.

[98tls]

:killingme:killingmeThis sure beats Coronation Street,remember that old song "vodeo killed the radio star".they should make another "the interweb turned motorcyclists into a bunch of whingers".Jesus, cry me a farking river.

[Scuba_Steve]

Any reply?

About the RBT??? My answer would have to be Yes & No, unlike WOF/Licence's check these DO serve a purpose. But I do have issues with where they place some of them & the way they're policed.

Also my vehicles are my private property I paid for them I own them they are mine, I use them on public roads but they are still my private property.

[onearmedbandit]

About the RBT??? My answer would have to be Yes & No, unlike WOF/Licence's check these DO serve a purpose. But I do have issues with where they place some of them & the way they're policed.

Also my vehicles are my private property I paid for them I own them they are mine, I use them on public roads but they are still my private property.

When did we start talking about them searching your car? They have to have suspicion first, most likely under the misuse of drugs act.

And rego/wof/license are legal requirements to use your vehicle on the public road. They are there for a reason, even if they are not highly effective. By making sure unsafe cars and unsafe drivers are off the roads, the safer it is for everyone else.

[R6_kid]

Wof/rego/licence check stop = fair enough.
Stop for a 'chat' because I was doing something wrong = fair enough.
Stop to lecture on safe riding = fuck off.

I've not had a MVA since 1974. I rather think I know what I'm doing = goodbye.

Cmon Johnny Boy... what's with the attitude? What if they were also warning riders of possible dangers that they wouldn't otherwise know about? Even a simple reminder to stay away from the center line on your pootle over the coro loop might be the thought in the back of your mind that saves your life.

I know that I've been quite lucky to get away with my life on a number of occasions where I wasn't in the wrong.

Funnily enough, from being involved with the BRONZ RRRS I for one know that the people who often need the most training and education are the ones who say they know it all and don't need any help. I know you're an experienced rider but no doubt there will be something that even you might gain from the little lecture. Maybe save the 'holier than thou' spiel til after you've actually been stopped and confirmed for or against that they really are just wasting our time and wanting to discriminate and incriminate us like so many seem to think.

[Scuba_Steve]

When did we start talking about them searching your car? They have to have suspicion first, most likely under the misuse of drugs act.

And rego/wof/license are legal requirements to use your vehicle on the public road. They are there for a reason, even if they are not highly effective. By making sure unsafe cars and unsafe drivers are off the roads, the safer it is for everyone else.

Touché
However I will say that while WOF's and license's are there "for a good reason" all they do nowadays is show that you've given the the Govt money.

[onearmedbandit]

Touché
However I will say that while WOF's and license's are there "for a good reason" all they do nowadays is show that you've given the the Govt money.

And I completely agree with that.

[Ocean1]

And rego/wof/license are legal requirements to use your vehicle on the public road. They are there for a reason, even if they are not highly effective. By making sure unsafe cars and unsafe drivers are off the roads, the safer it is for everyone else.

Making sure unsafe cars and drivers are off the roads? Where do you live dude?

Sorry mate, none of those requirements has any such effect. Any interpretation of their purpose as anything other than a revenue stream is either uninformed or delusional.

[onearmedbandit]

Making sure unsafe cars and drivers are off the roads? Where do you live dude?

Sorry mate, none of those requirements has any such effect. Any interpretation of their purpose as anything other than a revenue stream is either uninformed or delusional.

I implied it in my post, but just to reaffirm my position, see here...


Touché
However I will say that while WOF's and license's are there "for a good reason" all they do nowadays is show that you've given the the Govt money.


And I completely agree with that.

[bogan]

Making sure unsafe cars and drivers are off the roads? Where do you live dude?

Sorry mate, none of those requirements has any such effect. Any interpretation of their purpose as anything other than a revenue stream is either uninformed or delusional.

Some euro group did a report on thier version of wofs, made for some very interesting reading, I had a look for it again but I can't find it.... anyway, iirc 0.7% of accidents are caused by vehicle issues, and of that 0.7 the majority were simple things like tyres etc that would likely to wear down between checks anyway. Their recommendation was to do without them, as the economic burden was greater than the potential benefits.

[98tls]

Some euro group did a report on thier version of wofs, made for some very interesting reading, I had a look for it again but I can't find it.... anyway, iirc 0.7% of accidents are caused by vehicle issues, and of that 0.7 the majority were simple things like tyres etc that would likely to wear down between checks anyway. Their recommendation was to do without them, as the economic burden was greater than the potential benefits.

:wacko:Why cant we apply such thought to our welfare system.

[riffer]

Absolutely Riffer, not one cent ha s been spent yet...YET?
What are you proposing to spend our money on..?
Nothing to do with ACC.:yes:
For gods sake, stop and think.......or piss or get off the pot.

Here's the official line NONONO.


The Motorcycle Safety levy will be payable by the registered owners of mopeds and motorcycles. It will form part of the existing Motor Vehicle Account, but the funds collected from the levy will be ring-fenced from the other funds in the Motor Vehicle Account and will be used exclusively for moped and motorcycle safety programmes. The existing criteria for promoting measures that reduce the incidence and severity of personal injury that are set out in section 263 of the principal Act will apply to the moped and motorcycle safety programmes.


There is $30 collected on top of your relicensing fee every time you pay. You will recall ACC is putting this money into a ring-fenced fund that will be specifically used on injury prevention initiatives to reduce the number and severity of motorcycle injuries and fatalities.



To oversee the design of the programme, ACC has set up an establishment group. The group’s aim is to ensure the MSL programme is set up with motorbike and moped riders at the forefront. They recently met for the first time in Wellington and their first task is to develop the foundations for how the MSL programme will be administered and operated.



The group is made of eight people representing the following groups; Ulysses Club of NZ Inc, Bikers Rights Organisation of NZ (BRONZ), Women’s International Motorcycle Association (WIMA), Motorcycling New Zealand, Scoot NZ, NZ Classic Scooter Club, Motor Industry Association, Ministry of Transport and the NZ Transport Agency. Seven of the group members are motorbike or scooter riders.



Peter McIntosh, of Ulysses, sees the potential from the use of the MSL funds for motorcyclists.



"For the first time we will have a dedicated safety fund for us as riders with genuine input from the motorcycling community on what types of initiatives will really benefit us. The Government and ACC have made a genuine commitment to working with motorcyclists in the operation of the Motorcycle Safety Levy to improve the safety of all motorcyclists. It is now in place and the best thing we can all do is to take a positive step forward and support it," says Mr McIntosh.
ACC is providing additional funding to cover administration, so that all funds collected, are used directly on funding safety initiatives rather than on the administration of the programme.



ACC General Manager Injury Prevention Keith McLea says the MSL programme’s success depends on input from motorcyclists on its design and development.
"We want to ensure this programme is set up for motorcyclists by motorcyclists," Dr McLea said.


ACC Minister Nick Smith adds: “Addressing this high injury rate is why the Government ring-fenced $30 of the moped/motorcycle levy for injury prevention. This new fund of $3 million per year will be modelled on the successful Transport Accident Commission’s programme in Victoria where since 2002 there has been a noticeable drop in the rate of injuries per motorcycle attributed to the levy and associated safety programme. Our collective ambition should be to reduce motorcycle fatalities in New Zealand from 50 per year to a rate comparable with that in Victoria. This would save 16 Kiwi lives a year.



Dr Smith was in Melbourne in August to hear first hand about the Victorian motorcycle safety programme. The Minister led a delegation that included representatives from ACC, the Ulysses Club of New Zealand, Bikers Rights Organisation of NZ (BRONZ), the Automobile Association and Motorcycling New Zealand.



“Motorcyclists are concerned over last year’s levy hikes but I am determined to find common ground in improving safety so as to reduce the road toll and the injury costs to ACC. I am encouraged by the commitment of ACC and the lead motorcycle organisations to learn from Victoria’s positive experience and make this new programme work for New Zealand motorcyclists,” Nick Smith, said.

[riffer]

Some added stuff from me now:


The MSL will recommend initiatives and call for RFIs and RFPs from interested parties through the Government Electronic Tenders System (GETS) (http://www.gets.govt.nz/default.aspx?show=HomePage).



The MSL is completely independent of anything I have to say or think. I'm merely a member of the BRONZ Executive in Wellington. Which means I have input at branch level, and we pass input on to representatives of BRONZ who attend MSL meetings. We are but one cog in the wheel, and I play a very very small part.


As for what I want to do, my personal beliefs are very similar to BRONZ ones:


To promote road safety through road user education.
Education rather than legislation saves lives.
To protect and promote the rights of the motorcyclist to decide his/her own future as a road user.
Let those who ride decide.
To promote and protect the general welfare of the motorcycling public.

I PERSONALLY want to see a lot more money spent on rider education and training programmes, awareness programmes, and changing public attitudes towards motorcycling in general.

I firmly believe a compulsory levy on users RING-FENCED especially for this task, and COMPLETELY INDEPENDENT of politicians, led by representatives of organisations with a history in New Zealand motorcycling is the best way to achieve this outcome.

But don't believe for a second that one person (me) can make a god-damned bit of difference if a bunch of devil-may-care hardliners insist on riding dangerously up the Coro Loop pissing the residents off and occasionally running off the road (or into each other).

[98tls]

Righto then i give up,38 years on 2 wheels ive from time to time heard of this "Bronz" thing though passed it off as nothing worth bothering with and no doubt similar to "Ulyssses" of which i had the rather forgettable experience of going for an "organized" ride with.Seems rather odd that these "groups" of motorcyclists stand up and voice the opinions of motorcyclists in general but hey im just old fashioned.

[onearmedbandit]

Making sure unsafe cars and drivers are off the roads? Where do you live dude?

Sorry mate, none of those requirements has any such effect. Any interpretation of their purpose as anything other than a revenue stream is either uninformed or delusional.

Actually, despite my stated stance, I will add this much. I got my warrant on my bike done yesterday, by a friend of mine who is a qualified mechanic/wof inspector and is also a long term motorcyclist. He might let me away with a horn that dies right at inspection time (last time) but he would not pass the bike with dodgy swingarm bearings, or wheel bearings etc etc. Sure brake pads/lights etc are all things I can easily check, but I'm happy to pay $25 to get the things I'm not sure of checked off by someone who does know what they are doing.

[swbarnett]

A friend and I were discussing this tonight, and he suggested that the crown own them.
Yes, but the crown is just a body representing the puiblic (or it's suppossed to be). As such we own the crown so, indirectly, we own anything they own.

[riffer]

Yes, but the crown is just a body representing the puiblic (or it's suppossed to be). As such we own the crown so, indirectly, we own anything they own.

Don't go there mate. That one's as contentious as who owns the seabed and foreshore.

[onearmedbandit]

Yes, but the crown is just a body representing the puiblic (or it's suppossed to be). As such we own the crown so, indirectly, we own anything they own.

No problem. But as I also said, regardless at the end of the day who owns them is irrelevant, they are managed by the government. And as such, if we want to use them then there is laws we have to observe, once again including the power for the police to pull anyone over at anytime. Doesn't mean I like it, doesn't mean I observe all their laws either. But I know the game, and I make my own choices.

[red mermaid]

Interestingly I recently read a court decision that said the roads were owned by an entity and the public could be trespassed from them.

[PrincessBandit]

Interestingly I recently read a court decision that said the roads were owned by an entity and the public could be trespassed from them.

:crazy: imagine if they decided that all motorcycles were "trespassers"....... Mass revolt anyone??

[Grubber]

:killingme:killingmeThis sure beats Coronation Street,remember that old song "vodeo killed the radio star".they should make another "the interweb turned motorcyclists into a bunch of whingers".Jesus, cry me a farking river.

You got that right in one....poor bastards know the law and flout it, but don't like it when they get picked on.

When did we start talking about them searching your car? They have to have suspicion first, most likely under the misuse of drugs act.

And rego/wof/license are legal requirements to use your vehicle on the public road. They are there for a reason, even if they are not highly effective. By making sure unsafe cars and unsafe drivers are off the roads, the safer it is for everyone else.

If you stay within the boundaries somewhat they will leave you alone. Don't give them any reason to look at you and they won't. Pretty fuckin simple i reckon. Dable in drugs or speed and you can expect to get the once over.

Cmon Johnny Boy... what's with the attitude? What if they were also warning riders of possible dangers that they wouldn't otherwise know about? Even a simple reminder to stay away from the center line on your pootle over the coro loop might be the thought in the back of your mind that saves your life.

I know that I've been quite lucky to get away with my life on a number of occasions where I wasn't in the wrong.

Funnily enough, from being involved with the BRONZ RRRS I for one know that the people who often need the most training and education are the ones who say they know it all and don't need any help. I know you're an experienced rider but no doubt there will be something that even you might gain from the little lecture. Maybe save the 'holier than thou' spiel til after you've actually been stopped and confirmed for or against that they really are just wasting our time and wanting to discriminate and incriminate us like so many seem to think.

Very right. Plenty of us that have been around for some time can become a little too complacent with our skills. Can't do any harm to have somewhat of a refresher now and then.
Don't think discrimination comes into it. All trafic at one time or another gets a curry up for misbehaving on certain stretches of road. We aren't the only ones out there that use the roads.


No problem. But as I also said, regardless at the end of the day who owns them is irrelevant, they are managed by the government. And as such, if we want to use them then there is laws we have to observe, once again including the power for the police to pull anyone over at anytime. Doesn't mean I like it, doesn't mean I observe all their laws either. But I know the game, and I make my own choices.

Think we could all relate to this once in a while. No one here is a saint, we all know what we get up to now don't we. So play the game and face the consequences if ya get caught and then get on with it.

[Katman]

Some euro group did a report on thier version of wofs, made for some very interesting reading, I had a look for it again but I can't find it.... anyway, iirc 0.7% of accidents are caused by vehicle issues, and of that 0.7 the majority were simple things like tyres etc that would likely to wear down between checks anyway. Their recommendation was to do without them, as the economic burden was greater than the potential benefits.

You don't think that maybe the fact that only 0.7% of accidents were caused by vehicle issues might have something to do with the fact that the WOF process was in place?

There's a damn good chance that without any inspection process at all the percentage of accidents caused by vehicle issues would increase tenfold.

[Scuba_Steve]

You don't think that maybe the fact that only 0.7% of accidents were caused by vehicle issues might have something to do with the fact that the WOF process was in place?

There's a damn good chance that without any inspection process at all the percentage of accidents caused by vehicle issues would increase tenfold.

Thats always argued but then the place we like to copy (Victoria) don't have WOF's and they're "vehicle issue" crashes are also low. Also the WOF system here does nothing to guarantee safety as proven again recently by the truck passed with 21 major faults.

[Katman]

Also the WOF system here does nothing to guarantee safety as proven again recently by the truck passed with 21 major faults.

I'm not suggesting that there aren't organisations that should have their issuing authority revoke.

I do WOF inspections on motorcycles just about every day. Some of the faults that I find (that the owners are blissfully unaware of) are truly disturbing.

[duckonin]

I do WOF inspections on motorcycles just about every day. Some of the faults that I find (that the owners are blissfully unaware of) are truly disturbing.


And katman 'these faults' would be as a matter of interest for others to note, "would be"?:yes:

[Mom]

And katman 'these faults' would be as a matter of interest for others to note, "would be"?:yes:

Well, I will have a stab at one fault. My bike managed to "pass" a WOF with blown fork seals :pinch: twice :eek5: