Biker down. Yep I just got bowled...

[Pascal]

I think being attacked from all sides has probably taught him not to look for support, encouragement and guidance on KB.

Possibly. I'm glad for this thread though. The concept of looking at even a near miss as a:

"What did I do wrong and how can I avoid that situation in the future?"

seems damn sensible to me. And whilst I think katman delivers that message with all the glee of a cactus based enema, it's a valuable message. At the end of the day, it may end up saving me from a serious injury.

[MSTRS]

Which kind of sums things up really, that there are any number of things you could do, but which one is right at any particular point in time? And travelling at 15/20/25 m/s it doesn't give you very long to think about it.

Yeah. Coulda, shoulda are not universal answers.


Yeah, little bit. Let's just say I know who to listen to and who not to.

Even plonkers can have useful advice...

[Phreak]

On a more cheerful note - NUMBER 2 in the "most replied thread"...!

Lol who woulda thought?!?!

[That looks like fun]

On a more cheerful note - NUMBER 2 in the "most replied thread"...!

Lol who woulda thought?!?!


:woohoo: com,on team lets get this puppy to numero uno :yes:

[baptist]

:woohoo: com,on team lets get this puppy to numero uno :yes:

nah can't be bothered ... what another post argh nuts! :killingme

[Katman]

On a more cheerful note - NUMBER 2 in the "most replied thread"...!



You're welcome. :msn-wink:

[Coolz]

Sorry to hear about your accident Phreak and thanks for posting .what a great thread this has turned into,I wish this kind of mentoring was avallible when I was starting out. If you weed out the drongos hiding in the shrubbery you will find alot of good advice.I hope you take some of it to heart.It has made me reaccess some of my riding skills and I have been on the road forty years and hold eight classes of licence.We never stop learning eh.Good luck with the rebuild and good onya for A.T.G.A.T.T.

[shrub]

1. By being more aware of the attitude of the "about to turn" car. It wouldn't have been coming towards him at the flow of traffic rate then turned out of the blue... there would have been signs that it was about to happen.

2. By being more aware. Sitting to the side of the traffic infront rather than behind it allowing a faster escape route.
Or lane splitting to avoid being exposed.

Good points - one minor issue regarding my son though, he was 16 and had been riding about a year. That kind of skill takes years and years to acquire, so in his case the crash was unavoidable because he didn't have the skill. And as for sitting at the side of the traffic - there are two schools of thought there, and many won't do it because if you're in the side of your lane sure as eggs is eggs you'll get some turkey pulling up alonside you, and there you are trapped in a cage of cars. As for lane splitting, I do it where I can but not if the lights are about to go green and sometimes there just aint the room to slip through.

I stand by my position that some crashes are unavoidable, especially if you take into account situational factors like rider experience. I maintain that Phreak's crash was not something he was able to avoid, so was not his fault. The car driver almost certainly didn't indicate for 3 seconds before turning, and from what I gather didn't indicate at all and made a sudden and unexpected turn in traffic without checking his mirrors - pretty bloody awful driving in my books.

But there are still people here who will be baying for phreak's blood for scaring the poor car driver and denting his car. Not sure why they're on a biker site because that kind of attitude don't fit any of the criteria I hold for being a biker.

And katman, you have taken on yourself a mission to make people more accountable for their own safety - an admirable task indeed, but do you think Phreak will listen to you now?

[Katman]

And katman, you have taken on yourself a mission to make people more accountable for their own safety - an admirable task indeed, but do you think Phreak will listen to you now?

He'd be silly if he doesn't.

[shrub]

Shrub, I think you are still missing the difference between 'blame', ie fault, and 'responsibility', which in this instance does not automatically mean 'fault'. It just means taking responsibility for your actions due to the ineptitude of someone else. It's no good blaming someone else, when you are the one with the paralysed arm. I say that because in particular because when I had that accident back in '97, I was told while I was in hospital that diesel had been spilled on a few of the corners around where I crashed. I honestly don't believe that it played a part in accident, but even if it had, it would've been still me riding over it. I can't go around blaming others for something that, ultimately, was my responsibility.

No, I understand the difference. Ultimately we all have the responsibility to ride or not to ride, and because riding is inherently dangerous we are all ultimately responsible for any crash we have involving a motorcycle. It comes down to degrees of responsibility, and in this case I believe Phreak had little responsibility for his crash. if he had been riding at 120 kmh, then it would have been almost all his responsibility, but from what I understand he was playing by the rules and apart from going around instead of stopping, he did nothing wrong. And going around is an entirely valid way to deal with a hazard and often the best way.

[shrub]

He'd be silly if he doesn't.

No, human. Even if you made all the sense in the world (and surprisingly often you do make sense) your tactic of attacking him without all the facts has made him think you're a moron so I'd be very surprised if he'll listen to you.

I'm only here to waste time and shit stir so I really don't care what people think of me, therefore my often smart arsed approach doesn't matter, but you're here to try and get people to change the way they ride. Have you considered being a little less judgemental? You might actually do a lot of good.

[swbarnett]

2. A mate was sitting in traffic in broad daylight and a car slammed into him because the driver was distracted by a child in the back seat and hadn't realised the traffic in front of her had stopped. He had seen her coming in his mirrors (good things to use) and had started to try and get beside the car in front of him but didn't have time. How could he have avoided that crash?
Don't be there. This is one reason, albeit a small one, that I almost always lane split.

[ynot slow]

Lesson 1-obtaining a license doesn't automatically mean you can drive/ride.

Lesson 2-if you do bin and post here,be aware you will get you dickhead it was all YOUR fault,to you poor bugger etc.

If you can take the good from this thread,along with constructive critiqueing(cool word eh)from others,maybe the next time(heaven forbid)a vehicle pulls out/doesn't see you results in avoidance,I think this thread has opened eyes up of many,yep accidents can be avoided in most times,but there is the odd time we crash.

Many years ago an old guy told me as I started my apprenticeship"sonny you never stop learning,and when you do it means others are drinking ya piss at ya funeral"good words for all aspects of life.

[NUTBAR]

No, human. Even if you made all the sense in the world (and surprisingly often you do make sense) your tactic of attacking him without all the facts has made him think you're a moron so I'd be very surprised if he'll listen to you.

I'm only here to waste time and shit stir so I really don't care what people think of me, therefore my often smart arsed approach doesn't matter, but you're here to try and get people to change the way they ride. Have you considered being a little less judgemental? You might actually do a lot of good.

well said. not much one can add to that.:done:

[shrub]

If you can take the good from this thread,along with constructive critiqueing(cool word eh)from others,maybe the next time(heaven forbid)a vehicle pulls out/doesn't see you results in avoidance,I think this thread has opened eyes up of many,yep accidents can be avoided in most times,but there is the odd time we crash.

An idiot pulled out without looking, giving Phreak 2 options:

1. Go around. In favour of that approach is that it's usually quick and I was always taught that on a bike you do everything smoothly. Against it is the risk that the other vehicle was going to do a U turn.

2. Hit the brakes. The advantages there are you'll be the irritated stationary guy not the irritated guy with a broken bike and a broken body. Against that option is that you need to check that there isn't someone up your arse before you hit the brakes, the road surface may be marginal/oil /white lines etc, and yes, I know you're supposed to constantly check your surface, but what if you're too busy looking at the idiot who's pulled out in front of you?

Both options have their merits, and both have their drawbacks. Phreak had a fraction of a second to make a choice and he made an entirely valid choice. When someone turns left you don't expect them to immediately do a U turn, and I believe the car driver wasn't indicating so why wouldn't he go around?

It was one of those situations where probably the only rider who would be guaranteed to make the right decision was Katman. I might well have made the decision to go around, and I have been riding a few more years than Phreak.

[Katman]

An idiot pulled out without looking, giving Phreak 2 options:

Really? According to Phreak the guy said he did see him and that there was plenty of room.



Both options have their merits, and both have their drawbacks. Phreak had a fraction of a second to make a choice and he made an entirely valid choice.

Really? Phreak has already mentioned the distance of "about 30 metres". That would suggest plenty of time to act in a safer manner than overtaking the vehicle.


When someone turns left you don't expect them to immediately do a U turn, and I believe the car driver wasn't indicating so why wouldn't he go around?

Really? Even Phreak hasn't said the driver wasn't indicating. I think you're just clutching at straws.

[MSTRS]

Phreak had a fraction of a second to make a choice and he made an entirely valid choice.

From the map of the area and his description of who was where, I'm not so sure that you can draw that conclusion.
True, he had to make a decision to either brake or go around. In hindsight, going round was the wrong choice, in this case. And I'm almost certain that braking would have been the right choice...but as I said earlier, I wasn't there.

[shrub]

as I said earlier, I wasn't there.

Nope, the only person who was there was Phreak, therefore none of us (except of course Katman) are qualified to ascribe blame to Phreak. What is not in question is that the car driver displayed appalling decisions that resulted in a fellow motorcyclist having a crash.

[Pascal]

Nope, the only person who was there was Phreak, therefore none of us (except of course Katman) are qualified to ascribe blame to Phreak. What is not in question is that the car driver displayed appalling decisions that resulted in a fellow motorcyclist having a crash.

Wait a second. On the one hand you're saying nobody is qualified to ascribe blame to Phreak because nobody was there except him. Yet, you're turning around and judging the cager for his decisions when you weren't there.

Bit of a logical disconnect for me there as given the hazy recollection of events along with the immediate, blame-the-other-fella instinct nobody really knows what happened. Perhaps not even Phreak.

So at the end of the day - another biker got bowled. It sucks, especially now that there is timeout for Phreak from riding in this bloody amazing weather. I've been out three times today, looking for any excuse to just head out.

But at the same time - lessons to be learned. My first instinct when I read post number 1 was to ask "Why not go around the left?" The other car was moving from left to right. Principal direction is to the right, thus it seems logical when analysing it that going into the blank space it might be heading into is more dangerous. Can't say I'd have done it though. As somebody pointed out, we've been taught not to undertake. And the car could equally well have been wanting to turn into a driveway to the left 20 meters down the road. Or pulled over when it noticed the motorcycle bearing down on it. Or ... who knows?

Either way, it's interesting reading the comments. Different opinions off what seems like a fairly simple accident. Braking seems to be the general opinion based off what is assumed about the accident.

[shrub]

Wait a second. On the one hand you're saying nobody is qualified to ascribe blame to Phreak because nobody was there except him. Yet, you're turning around and judging the cager for his decisions when you weren't there.

Bit of a logical disconnect for me there as given the hazy recollection of events along with the immediate, blame-the-other-fella instinct nobody really knows what happened. Perhaps not even Phreak.

OK, these are the facts as relayed by phreak:

1. The car driver pulled out from a side road in front of phreak and turned left meaning he had to take evasive action.

2. The car driver then made a U turn despite there being a motorcycle behind him.

i know in this PC world of KB it's considered unacceptable to dare criticise car drivers, (yet OK to call them cagers) but that is what I would describe as appalling driving.

[MSTRS]

OK, these are the facts as relayed by phreak:

1. The car driver pulled out from a side road in front of phreak and turned left meaning he had to take evasive action.

2. The car driver then made a U turn despite there being a motorcycle behind him. NO.


Car TURNED right into a Kindergarten driveway on the right.

We don't know whether s/he drifted right in the lane first or not. Passing on the left is usually a no-no, and if a vehicle drifts right in it's lane, that is OFTEN a sign they are about to duck left into a side street or driveway.

[onearmedbandit]

i know in this PC world of KB it's considered unacceptable to dare criticise car drivers, (yet OK to call them cagers) but that is what I would describe as appalling driving.

It's perfectly fine to slag off car drivers on KB. And if you want to do that while lying in hospital, or looking at a wrecked bike, or just sitting on your arse on the side of the road, then go for it. And if it makes you feel better, then I'm not going to stop you. But I'd rather be looking at what I could have done to have avoided ending up in hospital, or looking at a wrecked bike, or sitting on my arse on the side of the road.

But even more so, I'd rather be riding away from the 'situation' thankful that due to my actions it wasn't an 'accident'.

[shrub]

It's perfectly fine to slag off car drivers on KB. And if you want to do that while lying in hospital, or looking at a wrecked bike, or just sitting on your arse on the side of the road, then go for it. And if it makes you feel better, then I'm not going to stop you. But I'd rather be looking at what I could have done to have avoided ending up in hospital, or looking at a wrecked bike, or sitting on my arse on the side of the road.

But even more so, I'd rather be riding away from the 'situation' thankful that due to my actions it wasn't an 'accident'.

Hmm.. I'm not sure it is OK to slag off car drivers. Every time anyone does it the PC brigade climb into them boots and all.

But in this situation Phreak was perfectly within his rights to go around the car pulling out in front of him, and if the road had been wet or someone was up his arse it may well have been the best decision. The car driver was putting another road user in danger by pulling out when they did and then turning with someone directly behind them. That may be OK to a lot of people, but I think it sucks.

I feel the same way when people tailgate me or cut me off etc when I'm in my car. New Zealand drivers are not good, and just because Phreak could have (and with the benefit of hindsight SHOULD have) hit the brakes, it does not excuse that kind of driving.

[Katman]

What is not in question is that the car driver displayed appalling decisions that resulted in a fellow motorcyclist having a crash.

Really?

What if there was, in fact, plenty of room to have made the left hand turn in front of Phreak and the right hand turn was signaled as soon as the left turn was completed?

I mean, we only have the word of an aggrieved motorcyclist who could well be simply looking for someone else to blame for his mistake.

[shrub]

Really?

What if there was, in fact, plenty of room to have made the left hand turn in front of Phreak and the right hand turn was signaled as soon as the left turn was completed?

I mean, we only have the word of an aggrieved motorcyclist who could well be simply looking for someone else to blame for his mistake.

Sorry, i forgot, you were there and saw the whole thing. I take it all back, the car driver did nothing wrong - they never do.

[onearmedbandit]

The car driver was putting another road user in danger by pulling out when they did and then turning with someone directly behind them. That may be OK to a lot of people, but I think it sucks.

You're right, it does suck. No one is disputing that. Now what are you going to do to change it?



I feel the same way when people tailgate me or cut me off etc when I'm in my car. New Zealand drivers are not good, and just because Phreak could have (and with the benefit of hindsight SHOULD have) hit the brakes, it does not excuse that kind of driving.

Once again, and I'm not being an arsehole about this, what are you going to do to change this? How are you going to ensure every driver on the road acts in the proper manner at all times?

Or would it be easier to modify your own behaviour?

[That looks like fun]

Really?

What if there was, in fact, plenty of room to have made the left hand turn in front of Phreak and the right hand turn was signaled as soon as the left turn was completed?

I mean, we only have the word of an aggrieved motorcyclist who could well be simply looking for someone else to blame for his mistake.

Go one admit it :yes: Secretly your enjoying this aren't you :love:
Message good + delivery bad = nobody listens :facepalm:
but it is good fun in the mean time :corn: :corn: :corn:

[Katman]

Go one admit it :yes: Secretly your enjoying this aren't you :love:
Message good + delivery bad = nobody listens :facepalm:
but it is good fun in the mean time :corn: :corn: :corn:

I prefer to call it 'providing a sense of balance'.

[GOONR]

Really?

What if there was, in fact, plenty of room to have made the left hand turn in front of Phreak and the right hand turn was signaled as soon as the left turn was completed?

I mean, we only have the word of an aggrieved motorcyclist who could well be simply looking for someone else to blame for his mistake.

Maybe there was enough room for the car driver to make the left turn but if the car driver had done that then indicated (edit: right) for 3 seconds he would have been well past the kindergarten (unless he came to a complete stop straight after left turn) so no way was it was indicated for long enough (if at all).

I'm not "taking sides", just know the area.

[jasonu]

So, freshly back from a day in A&E, 5 or so hours lying on a stretcher with my neck in a brace, not allowed to move at all (even though I walked in there on my own two feet...) - made for a feckin' fun day...

The prognosis? 3 x-rays later, doctor tells me my spine is all good, nothing untoward detected, and my stiff neck is just a couple of pulled muscles. :-)

So, resting up for a couple of days, then back to work and looking into stripping the bike down for a full rebuild. Been wanting to powdercoat the frame anyways! Figure I'm not gonna be doing much riding this summer, bit scared off it actually, but think I can use the time to build the bike back up even better and shiny-er!

In a better mood about it all now, still gonna pinch the pocket a little bit but hey, least I'm not still in hospital with a broken neck!

Again, thanks to everyone for their kind words, might see you back out there again one day.

Sorry for your luck mate. How much did your hospital visit cost? Nothing most likely. I had a minor get off in a mates back yard resulting in a $1200 10 mile meat wagon ride and a $4500 3hr 3 x ray hospital visit. Prez Obanana says that will come to an end soon...

[pc220]

Well fuck me this thread has got a bit long winded. Poor bugger gets cleaned out by a car and half the mob are putting him at fault.
To be honest, based on the account from the OP I would have also gone around the car.And I bet 99% of you lot would have too.
Anyone can be a perfect rider when posting on an annonamous forum. But the outside world will soon sort the 'katmans'.

[MSTRS]

... Prez Obanana says that will come to an end soon...

Enlightened man that he is. Unlike the fucken turkeys here...

[shrub]

You're right, it does suck. No one is disputing that. Now what are you going to do to change it?

Once again, and I'm not being an arsehole about this, what are you going to do to change this? How are you going to ensure every driver on the road acts in the proper manner at all times?

Or would it be easier to modify your own behaviour?

What am I going to do about it?

I won't be changing my behaviour, instead I'll do what I have been doing for bloody near 30 years. When I get on my bike I:

1. Don't expect car drivers to use their mirrors at all, let alone when I'm behind them.
2. Don't expect car drivers to indicate, or if they do indicate they'll do it as they start turning
3. Don't expect car drivers to see me
4. Expect car drivers to be putting more mental energy into passengers, stereos, eating pies and staring into space than into driving
5. Expect car drivers to drive as close behind me as possible
6. Expect car drivers to go through an amber light, even if the amber light is red.
7. Etc etc etc....

Which means I do shit like try and ride where they aren't, move around on the road so I'm more visible, look both ways before I take off on a green light etc etc etc.

What I don't do is think "most/all bike crashes are the fault of the rider and because I'm an experienced rider I'm OK". I don't think that because I'm wearing my leathers to ride down to the pub and have done a couple of track days, i'm OK. I may be, but being Rossi counts for nothing when the retard in front of me slams on his brakes in the wet because he dropped his pie, or swerves into my lane because little tarquin has just gouged little Siobhan's eye out, or suddenly make a right turn just as I overtake them.

I'm alive because I recognise there are a hell of a lot of complete cretins out there, and they drive irrationally, unpredictably and dangerously. And some of them are on bikes. I also don't go on group rides with people I don't know because some people on bikes are morons.

And instead of telling young guys like Phreak that he's an idiot for making the wrong choice, I'll tell him that there are a lot of car drivers out there that are fuckwits, and if one of them does something stupid like pull out in front of you don't think that's the last stupid thing they're going to be doing.

[ynot slow]

End of the day he is alive,bike can be fixed.Was it an avoidable prang,who knows we weren't witness to it.

And I'll reiterate the fact that avoiding may have been an option with hindsight,I know it would be a hard thing to think,turn right into oncoming traffic when faced with that option,much easier to try to stop or head to the left,but left can mean cyclists,pedestrians or any other hazzard.

[Phreak]

Okay, so... what have I learnt from my accident last sunday?

1. Never NEVER trust any car and what it seems to be doing on the road.
2. Always keep well back from anything in front of you.
3. If someone pulls out in front of you, you are still safer to back off even more.
4. Bruises heal, and bikes are fixable. Thank God.

oh, and...

5. Not everyone's view on KB is worth the price of the internet they use to post their view.

[shrub]

Okay, so... what have I learnt from my accident last sunday?

1. Never NEVER trust any car and what it seems to be doing on the road.
2. Always keep well back from anything in front of you.
3. If someone pulls out in front of you, you are still safer to back off even more.
4. Bruises heal, and bikes are fixable. Thank God.

oh, and...

5. Not everyone's view on KB is worth the price of the internet they use to post their view.

You'll be riding a long time with that attitude

[onearmedbandit]

What am I going to do about it?

I won't be changing my behaviour, instead I'll do what I have been doing for bloody near 30 years. When I get on my bike I:

1. Don't expect car drivers to use their mirrors at all, let alone when I'm behind them.
2. Don't expect car drivers to indicate, or if they do indicate they'll do it as they start turning
3. Don't expect car drivers to see me
4. Expect car drivers to be putting more mental energy into passengers, stereos, eating pies and staring into space than into driving
5. Expect car drivers to drive as close behind me as possible
6. Expect car drivers to go through an amber light, even if the amber light is red.
7. Etc etc etc....

Which means I do shit like try and ride where they aren't, move around on the road so I'm more visible, look both ways before I take off on a green light etc etc etc.

Ah, being proactive about your riding, and your safety. One could in fact say, taking responsibility for your own safety.


What I don't do is think "most/all bike crashes are the fault of the rider and because I'm an experienced rider I'm OK".

Neither do I. But the rider at the end of the day is the one who has to be responsible for his or her own safety. Better to be, shall I say proactive about your riding and not have to blame anyone.



I don't think that because I'm wearing my leathers to ride down to the pub and have done a couple of track days, i'm OK. I may be, but being Rossi counts for nothing when the retard in front of me slams on his brakes in the wet because he dropped his pie, or swerves into my lane because little tarquin has just gouged little Siobhan's eye out, or suddenly make a right turn just as I overtake them.

If you are following someone in the wet you should be at a distance that allows you to stop safely, for whatever reason. If you are too close, that's your fault. Got an oncoming car that might veer into your lane? It's called a hazard and it's something you should be alert for anyway. Have you ever done a defensive driving course? In the one I attended many years ago power poles were considered a hazard. Not if you crashed into one that is, but if for some reason it toppled onto the road. That's right. What are the chances of that happening? Less than a car veering into your lane, yet it was still considered a hazard. Doesn't mean you have to drive/ride everywhere anticipating one falling in front of you, but it helps you identify all hazards. And as far as someone turning right while you are overtaking them, well if they are slowing that's a sign of a hazard. And not many people turn right across traffic without slowing down.


I'm alive because I recognise there are a hell of a lot of complete cretins out there, and they drive irrationally, unpredictably and dangerously. And some of them are on bikes. I also don't go on group rides with people I don't know because some people on bikes are morons.

No disagreement there.




And instead of telling young guys like Phreak that he's an idiot for making the wrong choice, I'll tell him that there are a lot of car drivers out there that are fuckwits, and if one of them does something stupid like pull out in front of you don't think that's the last stupid thing they're going to be doing.

I didn't call him an idiot. And from what I see he's posted, he's figured out that the safer option would have been not to pass.

[Luckylegs]

...Not everyone's view on KB is worth the price of the internet they use to post their view.

Jesus, we're lucky shrubs Internet ain't free then :innocent:

[Kickaha]

I mean, we only have the word of an aggrieved motorcyclist who could well be simply looking for someone else to blame for his mistake.

Don't be stupid we all know motorcyclists don't make mistakes so it must have been the car drivers fault

[shrub]

Ah, being proactive about your riding, and your safety. One could in fact say, taking responsibility for your own safety.

I have been riding for just on 30 years minus about 7 years in 2 breaks, and the last off I had was in 1985. Of course I take responsibility for my own safety, and a huge part of that - possibly the biggest part, is recognising that other road users behave unpredictably and engage in behaviour that has the potential to put me at risk like, as Phreak has discovered, turning without looking or indicating. And that includes motorcyclists like luckylegs.

And no, you didn't call him an idiot - abusing him may be the fashionable thing for the playground bullies that hide behind their keyboards, but I think you're above that kind of behaviour.

The problem I have with the "all bike crashes are the fault of the rider" mindset is when you adopt that view you immediately discount a major hazard that we all face every day - low skills and dangerous driving by other road users. If Phreak didn't have the smarts to learn that, the only lesson he got from his crash would have been "don't go around a hazard, always stop", and sometimes that's not the best solution. Next time a similar thing happens, finding an escape route may be the best approach.

[onearmedbandit]

The problem I have with the "all bike crashes are the fault of the rider" mindset is when you adopt that view you immediately discount a major hazard that we all face every day - low skills and dangerous driving by other road users.

Shrub, I can only speak for myself when saying this, but I'm not saying that the motorcyclist is always at fault. What I'm saying is the motorcyclist is always responsible for their safety. What point is there in blaming someone else after an accident, except for legality reasons. It's best to avoid it completely in the first place, taking responsibility for your own safety.

Responsibility for your own safety and fault for the accident are not the same thing.

[Luckylegs]

I have been riding for just on 30 years minus about 7 years in 2 breaks, and the last off I had was in 1985. Of course I take responsibility for my own safety, and a huge part of that - possibly the biggest part, is recognising that other road users behave unpredictably and engage in behaviour that has the potential to put me at risk like, as Phreak has discovered, turning without looking or indicating. And that includes motorcyclists like luckylegs.

Haha lol. How is it that you keep saying no-one can judge phreaks crash as they wernt there yet you seem so intent on suggesting I'm a menace on the roads when you don't know me, my skill level, level of training or general attitude when riding or driving...

[shrub]

Haha lol. How is it that you keep saying no-one can judge phreaks crash as they wernt there yet you seem so intent on suggesting I'm a menace on the roads when you don't know me, my skill level, level of training or general attitude when riding or driving...

All I can go on is what you have said - that you don't look in your right hand mirror when turning right and you don't think it's as important to be aware of what's going on around you in town as on the open road.

[shrub]

Shrub, I can only speak for myself when saying this, but I'm not saying that the motorcyclist is always at fault. What I'm saying is the motorcyclist is always responsible for their safety. What point is there in blaming someone else after an accident, except for legality reasons. It's best to avoid it completely in the first place, taking responsibility for your own safety.

Responsibility for your own safety and fault for the accident are not the same thing.

I agree entirely, and a huge part of being responsible for your own safety is knowing and recognising risks. You talked about power poles doing the unexpected - falling in your path. That's never happened to me, but what has happened to me (and more often in my car than on my bike) is other road users doing the unexpected and the bizarre. There is a mindset on these boards that being responsible for your own safety is discounting the role played by other road users and that all bike crashes are the fault of the rider involved.

[Luckylegs]

All I can go on is what you have said - that you don't look in your right hand mirror when turning right and you don't think it's as important to be aware of what's going on around you in town as on the open road.

That's not what I actually said...

[Luckylegs]

18 years (driving, with a lesser number riding) and never an accident or incident turning right. Why is that shrub?

...don't disappoint me, keep your answer predictable! What ever you do

[jasonu]

Enlightened man that he is. Unlike the fucken turkeys here...

Hell, I voted for the guy. It was a good idea at the time. Won't make that mistake next time though...

[MSTRS]

Hell, I voted for the guy. It was a good idea at the time. Won't make that mistake next time though...

So you like the idea of insurance companies and their shareholders getting fat off exorbitant premiums, lawyers who get fat off litigation, the whole ambulance-chasing industry, no cover for those that can't/refuse to pay, and no community responsibility for the social costs of accidents?

[jasonu]

So you like the idea of insurance companies and their shareholders getting fat off exorbitant premiums, lawyers who get fat off litigation, the whole ambulance-chasing industry, no cover for those that can't/refuse to pay, and no community responsibility for the social costs of accidents?

No, none of that is good. But his idea of makeing medical insurance compulsary and fineing those who don't have it because they can't afford it is not the solution. If they can't afford the insurance, a fine certainly won't put them in a better situation. I don't have a solution but forceing people to spend money they have not got under the threat of a fine if they don't just isn't right. Plus, he has proved through his own actions that trying to spend the countrys way out of this depression is not working. When he took over the place was already fucked from 8 years of Bush Jr, Obama hasn't helped at all and the recent election tells us the large majority has seen this. Shit, even the Aussie $ is stronger than the greenback. Things here are bleak at best and people from places like NZ cannot fully comprehend it just by watching the news.
By the way, I am a Kiwi.

[MSTRS]

Ah, medical insurance...quite different from accident 'insurance', which is what I thought you meant.
ACC being groomed for sale as an insurance company...strikes at one of the foundations of NZ.

[jasonu]

Ah, medical insurance...quite different from accident 'insurance', which is what I thought you meant.

Same thing, they don't differentiate. If you visit a hospital, be prepaired to get it in the arse if you don't have insurance. They will deal with you even if you don't have insurance and will chase you later, ruin your credit and take your house and all of your shit too.
ACC being groomed for sale as an insurance company...strikes at one of the foundations of NZ.

Be sure to vote against that one.

Way off topic I know but ya get that on the big jobs...

[ynot slow]

Maybe before we give car licenses out we should make it mandatory to spend 12mths on 2 wheels,then everyone would be on lookout for riders,hazards etc,and the fact that trucks are bigger than cars and push in,cars v bikes similar.Maybe we need to have a little bit of courtesy.I will let a car into the space in front of me at intersections,but if the guy behind other car tries to cut in that pisses me off,he can pull in behind me IF the car behind me lets him etc,pretty simple,but does it happen.

[MarkH]

What your now saying, is that, when making a right turn on a sngle lane road, I am now obligated to ensure I'm not being overtaken at the same time ????

I am pretty sure that you have always been obligated to ensure you are not being overtaken before turning right. Maybe even indicate for a minimum of 3 seconds before turning as well.


I may be wrong, but I believe this is a part of the message Katman is trying to send. Believe that you are responsible for everything that happens around you, and you more likely are to be.

I'd agree that riding with that attitude is a good idea, but not necessarily with the sort of shit being slung at a rider after the accident that has been happening in this thread.


What if there was, in fact, plenty of room to have made the left hand turn in front of Phreak and the right hand turn was signaled as soon as the left turn was completed?

I mean, we only have the word of an aggrieved motorcyclist who could well be simply looking for someone else to blame for his mistake.

Sure, if we want to take the route of assuming that the OP is lying or delusional then we can logically assume that he is indeed to blame for his own misfortune.

If we went the other way and based our comments on his account being true then it is a completely different kettle of fish. My understanding of what I have read from Phreak is that a car turned into the lane in front of him and to avoid running up the rear of that car he dodged around that car into the opposite lane, where the car turned in front of him causing an accident. I would place the blame in that situation on the car driver for not indicating for 3 seconds and for not ensuring that it was safe to turn.

Ignoring blame was there anything Phreak could have done to avoid the accident? Sure - if there was enough room to brake then he could have done that instead of dodging. Or if there wasn't enough room then he could have braked and dodged - coming to a stop in the opposite lane before the car turned. Hindsight is WAY better than a riders judgement at the time, but probably not overly helpful to Phreak. This forum is great for providing hindsight and far less good for posters putting themselves in the OPs position when the shit was going down.

[Luckylegs]

...I am pretty sure that you have always been obligated to ensure you are not being overtaken before turning right. Maybe even indicate for a minimum of 3 seconds before turning as well.

...I would place the blame in that situation on the car driver for not indicating for 3 seconds and for not ensuring that it was safe to turn

Yawn... I never said anything about not indicating but anyway... If i'm driving along, see my turn ahead, check right mirror and blind spots and there is no-one in the process of overtaking me nor in my blind spot, i start indicating move to the right of my lane, slow as much as required turn. I then reach my turn and turn without a further check of the right mirror. Turns out someone has decided that despite me having clearly indicated my intentions to turn right they will pass me on the right anyway. Not withstanding who's most likely to be dead, who will be getting the traffic infringement notice?

[jafar]

Okay, so... what have I learnt from my accident last sunday?

1. Never NEVER trust any car and what it seems to be doing on the road.
Your learning !!:woohoo:
2. Always keep well back from anything in front of you.
Correct!! try maintaining the 2 second rule @ ALL times:msn-wink:
3. If someone pulls out in front of you, you are still safer to back off even more.
Also correct, to the extent that it is taught in advanced driver training!!:yes:

4. Bruises heal, and bikes are fixable. Thank God.
& insurance is there for a reason PUT IN A CLAIM !!!!
(this includes ACC which you havn't paid & that helped to fix you up):shit:

oh, and...

5. Not everyone's view on KB is worth the price of the internet they use to post their view.

Seems you have learned some valuable lessons from your little off. :facepalm:
Sorry to hear about your mishap but I'm also pleased you came out of it so lightly & have learned from it.

[caseye]

Shit Phreak, of all the guys to be taken out and have "thier" bike hurt. Well as has already been said, very glad you are Ok.That beauty of a motorcycle is going to look perfect again soon. Take care out there.
Keep em shiny side up mate.

[shrub]

Yawn... I never said anything about not indicating but anyway... If i'm driving along, see my turn ahead, check right mirror and blind spots and there is no-one in the process of overtaking me nor in my blind spot, i start indicating move to the right of my lane, slow as much as required turn. I then reach my turn and turn without a further check of the right mirror. Turns out someone has decided that despite me having clearly indicated my intentions to turn right they will pass me on the right anyway. Not withstanding who's most likely to be dead, who will be getting the traffic infringement notice?

It's nice to see you're not the only one who has been learning, but if your driving kills a biker you have to live with that, and if you turn right while being overtaken by a car, truck, bus or LAV3; you're fucked, especially if you're on a bike. That's why experienced riders always take that last look, just in case.

You're getting there, but a bit to go yet.:clap:

[MSTRS]

Yawn... I never said anything about not indicating but anyway... If i'm driving along, see my turn ahead, check right mirror and blind spots and there is no-one in the process of overtaking me nor in my blind spot, i start indicating move to the right of my lane, slow as much as required turn. I then reach my turn and turn without a further check of the right mirror. Turns out someone has decided that despite me having clearly indicated my intentions to turn right they will pass me on the right anyway. Not withstanding who's most likely to be dead, who will be getting the traffic infringement notice?


It's nice to see you're not the only one who has been learning, but if your driving kills a biker you have to live with that, and if you turn right while being overtaken by a car, truck, bus or LAV3; you're fucked, especially if you're on a bike. That's why experienced riders always take that last look, just in case.

You're getting there, but a bit to go yet.:clap:

Years ago, at a firearms training evening, the question was asked..."When carrying your rifle, how often should you check it is safe". Everyone got it wrong.
The answer, of course, was "All the time".
Bit like "Identify your target"...

The same applies to driving/riding. Failing to ensure it is safe to proceed with a turn (or whatever) just prior to doing it, is a recipe for dead school teachers...

[shrub]

Years ago, at a firearms training evening, the question was asked..."When carrying your rifle, how often should you check it is safe". Everyone got it wrong.
The answer, of course, was "All the time".
Bit like "Identify your target"...

The same applies to driving/riding. Failing to ensure it is safe to proceed with a turn (or whatever) just prior to doing it, is a recipe for dead school teachers...

You mean things change unexpectecly and what was OK a few seconds ago might not be OK any more? No wonder you're so old.

[Pascal]

There is a mindset on these boards that being responsible for your own safety is discounting the role played by other road users and that all bike crashes are the fault of the rider involved.

I'm reading it differently. The mindset appears to be that you cannot control other road users. You must be aware, scanning and ensure that you have the ability to avoid messes. And that this could come down to simple things.

It was a quiet road from the descriptions thus far. There was no oncoming traffic. Look at the last reported position on street view - see here (http://maps.google.co.nz/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Manuka+Rd,+Glenfield&sll=-36.77466,174.717389&sspn=0.002621,0.004136&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Manuka+Rd,+North+Shore+0629,+Auckland&t=h&ll=-36.774973,174.717953&spn=0,0.004168&z=18&layer=c&cbll=-36.774527,174.717292&panoid=HvYXFPmqxyQUQZnwpVrvpg&cbp=12,85,,0,8.67).

When you notice a car that has the potential to become a hazard, what do you do as a biker?

[MSTRS]

You mean things change unexpectecly and what was OK a few seconds ago might not be OK any more? No wonder you're so old.

Didn't get there without collecting a few scars along the way...
To me, it is arse about face to 'check behind, indicate for 3 seconds and go'
Surely a prudent motorist of any type would 'indicate, check, go' ? As you say, a lot can happen in 3 seconds.

[shrub]

Didn't get there without collecting a few scars along the way...
To me, it is arse about face to 'check behind, indicate for 3 seconds and go'
Surely a prudent motorist of any type would 'indicate, check, go' ? As you say, a lot can happen in 3 seconds.

Sounds pretty smart to me, but that kind of behavour is a lousy way to build your scar collection. My bike has nifty mirrors that operate all the time, and given that feature no doubt cost me extra I might as well get my moneys worth and use them all the time.

[MSTRS]

The scars came from getting it wrong. Whatever that might have been at the time. Some of them even came from not checking in front (traffic does stop from time to time, don't you know).
Yep, check front, back and sides - all the time. But especially as the last thing you do before turning. Don't want it to be the last thing you never did...

[Luckylegs]

Years ago, at a firearms training evening, the question was asked..."When carrying your rifle, how often should you check it is safe". Everyone got it wrong.
The answer, of course, was "All the time".
Bit like "Identify your target"...

The same applies to driving/riding. Failing to ensure it is safe to proceed with a turn (or whatever) just prior to doing it, is a recipe for dead school teachers...


You mean things change unexpectecly and what was OK a few seconds ago might not be OK any more? No wonder you're so old.

With all due respect, and of course a fairly healthy helping of Tounge (spelling) in cheek...

Now that your done with the I didnt get where I am today... type speech, can we realise that we've now done the "whats prudent" bit to death. We may or we may not agree, the question I asked was, "Who will be getting the traffic infringement notice", the turner or the overtaker?

Remember, my statement that started this, was about compulsion (not common sense).

[MSTRS]

...the question I asked was, "Who will be getting the traffic infringement notice", the turner or the overtaker?



Must have missed that one...
Truth is, if I was the little man with the hat and epaulettes, I think I'd be dishing it out to the turner. Indicating does not give the automatic right to proceed without ensuring it is safe to do so. :bleh:

[That looks like fun]

Must have missed that one...
Truth is, if I was the little man with the hat and epaulettes, I think I'd be dishing it out to the turner. Indicating does not give the automatic right to proceed without ensuring it is safe to do so. :bleh:


Ah yes, the great indicator makes me safe delusion :blink:
On fine day I was driving my big shiny truck thing with mirrors and lights and lots of wheels, plus big arsed barp barp air horns. Traffic was at an outstanding walking pace as I headed south toward Mercer. This was back in the days when the two south bound lanes became one about opposite the Mobil servo.
Lanes had ended and traffic was crawling along, about 300mtrs past where the 2nd lane ended was an Island that other than having a sign on it did bugger all (but it did obstruct the unofficial lane :innocent:)
A funny crunching noise came from the left hand front wheel of the truck and a little red car shot off into the grass. :shit: Bugger I said in my best Truck Driver voice :angry:
Upshot of it all was a lovely lady (Asian but is that relevant?) had been driving along on my left (in my blind spot) ever since the lane had ended. When she reached the island she just drove into the side of the truck :gob: After she had finished screaming and telling me that she had her indicator on I calmly informed her of a simple fact.

Indicators do not create an invisible force field around the outside of your vehicle. :facepalm:

[Luckylegs]

Must have missed that one...
Truth is, if I was the little man with the hat and epaulettes, I think I'd be dishing it out to the turner. Indicating does not give the automatic right to proceed without ensuring it is safe to do so. :bleh:

Woohoo :woohoo: MSTRS used the "I want to lick you out" smiley...... Oh wait... :blink: wrong forum.

[shrub]

Woohoo :woohoo: MSTRS used the "I want to lick you out" smiley...... Oh wait... :blink: wrong forum.

Life is good for you, huh? Not only are you learning how to ride safely but you have an excuse to fantasise about a sexual encounter with MSTRS.

You're living the dream, you really are.

[MSTRS]

Woohoo :woohoo: MSTRS used the "I want to lick you out" smiley...... Oh wait... :blink: wrong forum.

Sorry. If you're after a quick knee-trembler behind the bike sheds, I'll have to pass. My boyfriend is such a jealous type. Mind you, he was talking about sandwiches just the other day...

[Phreak]

This thread has taken a turn for the worse, I fear...

And we were so close to getting Top Replied Thread!!! (who woulda thought?)

Gees...

[MSTRS]

This thread has taken a turn for the worse, I fear...



You're easily frightened...and we haven't even started on 'which beer?' yet...

[shrub]

Sorry. If you're after a quick knee-trembler behind the bike sheds, I'll have to pass. My boyfriend is such a jealous type. Mind you, he was talking about sandwiches just the other day...

And after he sold his bike to pay for a vagina... shame on you

[MSTRS]

So me being 'accommodating' wouldn't have done either of us any good?

[imdying]

Okay, so... what have I learnt from my accident last sunday?Pay your rego/ACC because you're an inexperienced noob, and even if you weren't, that still wouldn't preclude you from having an off?

[shrub]

So me being 'accommodating' wouldn't have done either of us any good?

Not without a strap-on.:bleh:

[baptist]

You're easily frightened...and we haven't even started on 'which beer?' yet...

Or Big Hats...:yes:

[Luckylegs]

And after he sold his bike to pay for a vagina... shame on you

Unlike you shwubby me ol' pal, I've never had to pay for vagina in my life

[shrub]

Unlike you shwubby me ol' pal, I've never had to pay for vagina in my life

So you were born with one then?

[Phreak]

TOP REPLIED THREAD...!!!

I'd like to thank God, (or Katman, if he still insists on being called that), Fatt Max, MSTRS, 'Tart, Maha, Mom, and everyone else that has actually had something worthwhile to say on the topic of my accident.

Started the process towards getting back on the road today, stripping the bike down for powdercoat... (Turns out I might be back sooner than I thought!)

Edit: (crap, not quite top replied thread yet... who's gonna be the one to make it happen I wonder?)

Edited again: HAHAHAHAHAHA someone obviously doesn't want this thread to hit number 1, they're deleting their posts! Hmmm wonder who it might be?

[That looks like fun]

Say what you like about our boy Katman, he certainly gets an interchange going :yes: However as he can be interpreted as blaming it is not all positive though. We mostly (myself included) believe in our own deluded ways that "WE" are the only ones with the correct answers to all the questions :blink:
I actually believe much of what he says is true. Ultimately there is only one person in control of my destiny and as such if I don't do "everything possible" to prevent myself from getting harmed then I need to take responsibility for that. :yes:
The other side of that is that I am human and ride a bike so every now and then my brain says to me "That looks like fun"and next thing your arse up in a ditch :facepalm:
Good to hear you have learned from the experience Phreak, I only wish I had a better teacher as learning from my own mistakes means I was taught by a fool. :scooter:

[Maha]

TOP REPLIED THREAD...!!!

I'd like to thank God, (or Katman, if he still insists on being called that), Fatt Max, MSTRS, 'Tart, Maha, Mom, and everyone else that has actually had something worthwhile to say on the topic of my accident.

Started the process towards getting back on the road today, stripping the bike down for powdercoat... (Turns out I might be back sooner than I thought!)



...and to finish the process off nicely, I have a transfer for your swingarm....:yes:

[Phreak]

Mint! I actually just remembered about that today, was going to PM you and ask if it'd still be okay to get one off you.

Sending the frame and swingarm off to powdercoat early next week, will apply the transfer before clear-coat so it lasts...

[Fatt Max]

I just want everyone to know that Phreak is a great bloke, and the only guy you need in your corner when planning an escape from an enemy held holiday camp armed only with a spoon, a can of chain lube and a hard on.

You have my vote for man of the year Phreak, long may you be so snoggable..

[Latte]

If you can, throw up some pics of the frame and swingarm when you get em back. And let us know who you use. Have been umming and arring getting mine done and would like to see the results (and the price) haha.

Oh yeah, glad your ok, as long as you add it to your bag of tricks you can make it a positive. Although Katman's message is repetitive ad nauseum, I've noticed more people agreeing with his message (although not the delivery) since I've joined the forum - I figure he's actually trying to keep as many of us upright as he can.

[Phreak]

YAY! NUMBER 1 NUMBER 1 NUMBER 1!!!!!!

(this is what happens when the bike is off the road...!)

Check out this (http://cr-xorg.readyhosting.com/cbr250/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=63740) page hiss, complete run down of a CBR rebuild!

Lol Max, I'd snog you anytime mate...!

:-)

[baptist]

[QUOTE Lol Max, I'd snog you anytime mate...! :-)[/QUOTE]

Honda rider alert :buggerd::sick::sick::sick::puke:

Offer to polish it (the Bike you perv) when it is all finished is there mate... enjoy the build.

[Phreak]

Haha I knew that'd get a reaction from someone...!

But Maxxy's just so damn cuddly! Lol

[baptist]

Haha I knew that'd get a reaction from someone...!

But Maxxy's just so damn cuddly! Lol

:hug: Honda riders! ..... you guys need to get a room:facepalm::laugh:

[shrub]

Although Katman's message is repetitive ad nauseum, I've noticed more people agreeing with his message (although not the delivery) since I've joined the forum - I figure he's actually trying to keep as many of us upright as he can.

Katman has the right idea, but he has taken too polarised a perspective. The reason it's been 24 years since my last off is a combination of luck (which NOBODY can count on) and me taking total responsibility for my own safety. The problem I have with Katman is the way he presents his message is that it comes across that all crashes are the fault of the rider, and that none were the fault of anyone else - in Phreaks case the car driver was almost an innocent participant. At this point there will no doubt be howls of outrage that this is not what he says, but it's what comes across a lot of the time.

And that is not helpful.

I have been taken to task on the odd occassion when I have argued that there are some appalling drivers out there who put everyone in danger, but the truth is there are. Phreak's crash is a case in point - the idiot who hit him did a lot of things wrong and even though Phreak seemed to get blamed by a lot of people, the only things he did wrong were ride a Honda and make the (entirely valid) choice to go around a hazard.

The most important lesson I take out with me every time I ride is that other road users do strange and unpredictable shit, and that has me constantly watching and second guessing everyone else. It also means I do stuff like try not to be where other people are by filtering to the front and getting several car lengths ahead of cars, and by avoiding group rides of more than half a dozen people.

In Phreak's situation, I would probably have thought "hmmm... that guy isn't looking and doesn't know i'm here. Best I let him get well away from me and make sure he knows I'm behind him" braked, then made a point of being in his mirrors and even flashing highbeam.

I think Katman has a genuine desire to see crash rates drop and motorcyclists change their attitude, but his confrontational and polarised position does him few favours. I do however agree that it does seem more people are realising that we are the masters of our own destiny, so who knows, he may be doing more good than any of us realise.

[Luckylegs]

...in Phreaks case the car driver was almost an innocent participant.

Nice, now your starting to get it huh?

...Now I know thats not what you said/implied but frankly its about the most interesting thing anyone could do with such a pointless post!

If your going to keep making stupid statements like...


...
the only things he did wrong were ride a Honda and make the (entirely valid) choice to go around a hazard.

Then I'd hazard a guess that you dont get Katman and why he has to present his message the way he does...

[Pascal]

In Phreak's situation, I would probably have thought "hmmm... that guy isn't looking and doesn't know i'm here. Best I let him get well away from me and make sure he knows I'm behind him" braked, then made a point of being in his mirrors and even flashing highbeam.

Hmmm ... so as a rider you'd have made a different choice to Phreak based off your perception, attitude and skill as a rider in anticipating hazards. One that aligns more with the option I've seen a mentor suggested in the thread. (Despite not being there, understood).

So take a step back now. Do you think your choice would have had a higher chance of avoiding that accident?

See where Katman is coming from now?

[shrub]

Hmmm ... so as a rider you'd have made a different choice to Phreak based off your perception, attitude and skill as a rider in anticipating hazards. One that aligns more with the option I've seen a mentor suggested in the thread. (Despite not being there, understood).

So take a step back now. Do you think your choice would have had a higher chance of avoiding that accident?

See where Katman is coming from now?

No, I don't see where katman is coming from. I would probably have made a different choice because I have been riding a shitload longer than Phreak and don't trust other road users to do anything other than dumb shit like turn without looking in their mirrors. I don't blame or condemn Phreak for making his choice to go around because it is an entirely valid way of managing a hazard in certain circumstances, and if he had my experience he might have done things differently. Note I said "might" because the only person who was there was Phreak, so his choice may have been the best one.

What irritates me is when people condemn and attack people with limited experience for not having experience, and that's where it seems Katman is coming from. his default position is to judge against the motorcyclist regardless of how much or little he knows about the situation.

[Phreak]

Are we still actually bitching about who was in the wrong...?

Seriously, get over it folks. What matters is that the lesson has been learnt, for me at least. Not all accidents are avoidable, unless you want to stay home and hide in your bed all day. But I'd rather be out on my bike! So therein lies the simple fact - if you are prepared, and aware, the chances are you will see hazards before they appear, and react accordingly. And if you are lucky, you will be able to avoid the hazard. Or, if you do lose concentration for the briefest of seconds, hopefully you are intelligent enough to be wearing good protective gear.

Accidents happen, end of story.

Whether or not I should have seen the car before it pulled out is a question I have put behind me, what's done is done.

(but thanks for standing up for me when other people think they know exactly how the accident unfolded, shrub)

[Luckylegs]

Are we still actually bitching about who was in the wrong...?

Seriously, get over it folks. What matters is that the lesson has been learnt, for me at least. Not all accidents are avoidable, unless you want to stay home and hide in your bed all day. But I'd rather be out on my bike! So therein lies the simple fact - if you are prepared, and aware, the chances are you will see hazards before they appear, and react accordingly. And if you are lucky, you will be able to avoid the hazard. Or, if you do lose concentration for the briefest of seconds, hopefully you are intelligent enough to be wearing good protective gear.

Accidents happen, end of story.

Whether or not I should have seen the car before it pulled out is a question I have put behind me, what's done is done.

(but thanks for standing up for me when other people think they know exactly how the accident unfolded, shrub)

Point taken and moving on, but........................

You wanted the post to be "number 1" though, how the hell are we going to that now?

[MSTRS]

Humble, intelligent, well-educated, teachable, realistic...
:niceone:
That's not what KB is about, is it?

[Pascal]

No, I don't see where katman is coming from.

Okay. Enjoy then, because I don't know how to explain it to you. Except - the two of you seem to be in general agreement of how the accident could potentially have been avoided.


Are we still actually bitching about who was in the wrong...?

Nah, I think we're bitching about Katman now. And waiting for pics of the progress as you get back on the road :yes:

[Katman]

Okay. Enjoy then, because I don't know how to explain it to you. Except - the two of you seem to be in general agreement of how the accident could potentially have been avoided.


And if you cast your mind back to my original post that started the whole bitch fight you'll see that my words were that the accident was "totally avoidable" - the words 'blame' or 'fault' don't feature in the post at all.

[Fatt Max]

Humble, intelligent, well-educated, teachable, realistic...
:niceone:
That's not what KB is about, is it?

You forgot podgy with a slightly cheesy smell...

[yungatart]

You forgot podgy with a slightly cheesy smell...

It is NOT all about you! :shutup:

[caseye]

Oh Awwwwww, that hurt, you OK FM?
Tarty, that was not nice LOL!@#$% Butt quite appropriate udder the circumference of the situation.
Pleased to see such a well balanced debate and that no one has yet blown up.
Lessons learned and if Phreak can learn em and stay alive doing so, more power to him.
Keep that Bass(as opposed to a tom tom) drum beating there Katman.
Phreak got it first time, no worries there.

[Fatt Max]

It is NOT all about you! :shutup:

Oh yes it is my lovely,

Have you checked your bins lately.........

I liike your house as well, the roof is comfortable....

[Ratti]

I wondered who it was...would you like a blanky to keep you warm while you're up there?

[Maha]

I wondered who it was...would you like a blanky to keep you warm while you're up there?

Little clue...not the Easter Bunny.

[yungatart]

Oh Awwwwww, that hurt, you OK FM?
Tarty, that was not nice LOL!@#$% Butt quite appropriate udder the circumference of the situation.
Pleased to see such a well balanced debate and that no one has yet blown up.
Lessons learned and if Phreak can learn em and stay alive doing so, more power to him.
Keep that Bass(as opposed to a tom tom) drum beating there Katman.
Phreak got it first time, no worries there.

I'm a bitch, what else can I say?
Not nice is how we roll:yes:


Oh yes it is my lovely,

Have you checked your bins lately.........

I liike your house as well, the roof is comfortable....

Have you forgotten how scary I am already?


I wondered who it was...would you like a blanky to keep you warm while you're up there?

No, he doesn't thanks all the same...he's leaving...:bye:

Well done Phreak...you'll be riding for many years to come with that attitude!

[caseye]

Hello Ratti Darling, nice to see you about the thread mate.
Ya missed a brilliant Taupo weekend.

[Phreak]

Okay, on a more serious note, I have a question for everyone out there in cyber land...

I'm wondering whether or not to keep my helmet... Reason is, I've heard that once a helmet has seen the pavement (with the owner's head still in it, of course) you shouldn't use it again, regardless.

Only, my nice shiny new lid (only three weeks old now!) saw the pavement, but only has the tiniest of a scratch in it, literally only about 3mm diameter... And its an $800 Shark RSi that I got for a steal!

So, should I biff it, or be happy to keep on using it? Whatta ya think...?

(Seriously, though, okay?)

[swbarnett]

I'm wondering whether or not to keep my helmet...
Replace it. It might be alright but you can't trust it. Helmets are designed to protect you through their own descrution. This can be in ways that you can't see.

[Katman]

I would keep the helmet and learn to avoid accidents.

[Luckylegs]

Okay, on a more serious note, I have a question for everyone out there in cyber land...

I'm wondering whether or not to keep my helmet... Reason is, I've heard that once a helmet has seen the pavement (with the owner's head still in it, of course) you shouldn't use it again, regardless.

Only, my nice shiny new lid (only three weeks old now!) saw the pavement, but only has the tiniest of a scratch in it, literally only about 3mm diameter... And its an $800 Shark RSi that I got for a steal!

So, should I biff it, or be happy to keep on using it? Whatta ya think...?

(Seriously, though, okay?)

I'd bin it dude unfortunately. Mine had surprisingly little scratch damage when I slid down the track at taupo last year, but I know it did hit hard and slide as I heard it. The damage will be on the inside (compression of the liner etc).

[PrincessBandit]

You can have Maha's special horn when you bike is back onthe road Scott :D

I didn't know Maha had a "special" horn; don't tell Fatt Max - you know him and horns.....

[Phreak]

Maxx don't need no horn, I heard his yell from all the way across Stalag All Seasons in Taupo!:

[That looks like fun]

I would keep the helmet and learn to avoid accidents.

I normally agree with most of what you say :yes:, although your delivery could use some work in my opinion :shutup:. This statement however I hope is a piss take as if its not then its just plain stupid :facepalm:

To imply that someone should wear a now faulty piece of safety equipment, followed by just learn to avoid accidents. So if all we need to do is avoid accidents we could all ride in our speedos and jandels :shit: Ok for the babes but what about us uglies :sick:
Although I guess your out would be the word game that you never said he should wear the helmet.

Phreak mate, claim Insurance for the full value of the helmet, you will loose some depreciation, you will pay an excess but your noodle will thank you :love:

[Katman]

Yes, it was a tongue in cheek comment much along the lines of 'car accidents could be vastly reduced simply by placing a steel spike poking out from the centre of the steering wheel and removing the seat belt'.

[hellokitty]

Replace it. It might be alright but you can't trust it. Helmets are designed to protect you through their own descrution. This can be in ways that you can't see.

Replace it - it is not worth the risk. My husband dropped his helmet and it bounced :facepalm: I bought him a new one - better to be safe.

[ynot slow]

Try insurance,and if you have none,try your parents cover.Many kids do just that.

[Fatt Max]

I didn't know Maha had a "special" horn; don't tell Fatt Max - you know him and horns.....

ooohhhhh......

[Maha]

I didn't know Maha had a "special" horn; don't tell Fatt Max - you know him and horns.....

Whilst in Taupo, whenever anyone heard, or indeed laid eyes on it, they either just had to touch it or give it a squeeze...:love:

[thepom]

When I got dropped by an asian opening his door on me, my insurance company would only pay for half the price of my helmet due to it being second hand,cost me 1000 bucks and they offered me five hundred... it was six weeks old.....they called themselves insurance technicians..hahahahahaaaa

[baptist]

Yes, it was a tongue in cheek comment much along the lines of 'car accidents could be vastly reduced simply by placing a steel spike poking out from the centre of the steering wheel and removing the seat belt'.

<_<Ummmm what a good idea, wonder if cage drivers would have to pay extra ACC if the spike was above a certain length? :msn-wink:

Bugger that was another tongue in cheek remark...:facepalm:

[Fatt Max]

Whilst in Taupo, whenever anyone heard, or indeed laid eyes on it, they either just had to touch it or give it a squeeze...:love:

...I gave it a lick then I wedged the honker up me rusty and jiggled....

[Patrick]

Yawn... I never said anything about not indicating but anyway... If i'm driving along, see my turn ahead, check right mirror and blind spots and there is no-one in the process of overtaking me nor in my blind spot, i start indicating move to the right of my lane, slow as much as required turn. I then reach my turn and turn without a further check of the right mirror. Turns out someone has decided that despite me having clearly indicated my intentions to turn right they will pass me on the right anyway. Not withstanding who's most likely to be dead, who will be getting the traffic infringement notice?


With all due respect, and of course a fairly healthy helping of Tounge (spelling) in cheek...

Now that your done with the I didnt get where I am today... type speech, can we realise that we've now done the "whats prudent" bit to death. We may or we may not agree, the question I asked was, "Who will be getting the traffic infringement notice", the turner or the overtaker?

Remember, my statement that started this, was about compulsion (not common sense).

And to keep the thread ticking along....

The overtaker may get the ticket.

You're dead right... with emphasis on the "dead" bit....

I hope Phreak isn't the only one to learn something worthwhile here...?

[Phreak]

I'm :( because the weather has been really nice since my bin and I can't get out and enjoy it...

On a better note though, stripping the bike down went really easy, frame has been sent off to powdercoat, not sure how long it's gonna take but will try get pics up when it comes back... (I only have a shitty camera phone, though, might have to borrow the missus's camera...)

I did find that some of my bike's wiring was a bit iffy, so will be re-looming most of it, as well as replacing a whole heap of bolts that were well past their use-by date.

Perks of having a 20 year old bike, I guess.

Next step, pulling the motor down!

(My garage is a complete mess at the moment!!!)

[Luckylegs]

What did you decide about the helmet.

[Fatt Max]

Next step, pulling the motor down!

Enjoy the pulling bruv, I know I do..xxx

[Phreak]

Still haven't decided what to do with the helmet, will wait till the bike is back on the road first I think...

I've got an Oxford helmet to use if I do decide not to use my pretty Shark anymore. The Oxford isn't as comfortable, but it'll do.

[caseye]

Claim it on insurance if you can, but please don't put it back into service.Your bike and your gear both need to be up to it mate.

[swbarnett]

Claim it on insurance if you can, but please don't put it back into service.Your bike and your gear both need to be up to it mate.
Indeed. Strongly seconded.

[Phreak]

Been talking to my Mum and step-Dad a bit lately, they've offered for me to go back to working for them on their dairy farm... Pretty seriously considering it, for two reasons... 1, it'd be a nice pay rise with free rent and power, living on the farm so can take my time rebuilding the bike, and 2, it'd be a real nice change of scenery from the glory of poolside lifeguarding...

What do you guys think...? Farm is all the way down in Te Awamutu, deep in the heart of the Waikato, so be leaving behind a whole bunch of really good friends up here in Aucks :(

[GOONR]

Been talking to my Mum and step-Dad a bit lately, they've offered for me to go back to working for them on their dairy farm... Pretty seriously considering it, for two reasons... 1, it'd be a nice pay rise with free rent and power, living on the farm so can take my time rebuilding the bike, and 2, it'd be a real nice change of scenery from the glory of poolside lifeguarding...

What do you guys think...? Farm is all the way down in Te Awamutu, deep in the heart of the Waikato, so be leaving behind a whole bunch of really good friends up here in Aucks :(

I guess it depends on what you want out of life at the moment.

One thing I would say, if you do go and the old's are relying on you to work on the farm try not to piss them off by leaving two months down the road.

At the end of the day it's up to you fella, nice to have the choice though.

[Phreak]

Yeah, I'm well aware that it'd be a long term thing, heck, Mum is even talking about me taking over the farm in years to come if I wanted to!

Be a nice change from the busy city up here, but would miss all you guys heaps!

(And the girlfriend isn't terribly chuffed about me moving away either...)

[GOONR]

Yeah, I'm well aware that it'd be a long term thing, heck, Mum is even talking about me taking over the farm in years to come if I wanted to!

Be a nice change from the busy city up here, but would miss all you guys heaps!

(And the girlfriend isn't terribly chuffed about me moving away either...)

I'd do it in a heart beat. but I know bugger all bout farms so it wouldn't last too long.

EDIT: The missus could be a problem, if you want to keep her that is.

[caseye]

Scott, country air and life is unbeatable. As an ex Heart of the Waikato man I'd do it tomorrow too.
Go for it mate. Not that far and imagine the fun getting to and from the meets. I can personally introduce you to the Waikato laxed Out Riders Group, a great bunch of guys and girls.

[Phreak]

Thanks caseye, might have to do just that! Be good to meet even more bikers!

(Probably not until next summer though, unfortunately.)

[ynot slow]

You were brought up on a farm so guess you know the ropes eh.

Pros-no rent,power(maybe lol),meat,milk,supplied,the money can be ok,but factor the no cost travel to work and other benefits hehe.

Cons-girlfriend(she might like it)not sure,long hours,wet feeding out mornings,picking up calves in wet days,calving cows in worst nights of year,lack of time off(but not bad with folks around),hourly rate can be low for hours worked.

Did it for 2 seasons with MAF,and although had a different(scientific ideals)way to farm,with several small herds and making sure cows were in correct groups,was a good time for sure.Mind you getting paid 22.5 hours on weekend work was good,and in Jan/Feb would be lucky to work 8 hours.

[DMNTD]

Been talking to my Mum and step-Dad a bit lately, they've offered for me to go back to working for them on their dairy farm... Pretty seriously considering it, for two reasons... 1, it'd be a nice pay rise with free rent and power, living on the farm so can take my time rebuilding the bike, and 2, it'd be a real nice change of scenery from the glory of poolside lifeguarding...

What do you guys think...? Farm is all the way down in Te Awamutu, deep in the heart of the Waikato, so be leaving behind a whole bunch of really good friends up here in Aucks :(

Mate...anything to get out of Auckland! Better roads (not hard), daily commute would be quicker (p/t)...I mean, why the fuck not?

[MSTRS]

Life is full of opportunities. Mostly they pass without being recognised. The best ones often appear to carry a 'cost'.
If you have longterm goals that have had you heading in a very different direction, then it is time to re-evaluate.
If you are 'worried' that taking the offer would have you losing current friends, remember this...Friends are just those we meet as we go through life, and they can help or hinder your journey.
Only you can decide if this one is right for you.

[Phreak]

So, looks like I'm moving down the line again. Girlfriend isn't too happy about it though... Just sorting out the fine print details at the moment.

On a happier note though, quietly accumulating parts for the bike rebuild, so far I have new front indicators, mirrors (with carbon fibre finish), and an air duct for the right side. On order still to come is a full new Repsol fairing set, a new gear shift lever, new 'RR' badged bar-end weights, and a new H-Frame coming all the way from Australia. I'm going to take a look at tidying up my engine side casings this weekend (or maybe next, depending on other stuff), as well as replacing oil, filters, plugs and leads. Going to strip and clean the carbies as well. Battery was a little weak so I've put it on a tender, hopefully wont need replacing cause it was fairly new when I had the off.

The frame, sub-frame, and swing-arm are all still away getting powder-coated, hope to see the result in the next few days. I've also sent both the main and pillion seats away to be re-upholstered, mainly for aesthetics. Oh yeah, I've also purchased a whole heap of wiring to re-loom the entire bike, keeping as close to the original color codes as possible.

The only thing still on my mind is how to check and reset my valve clearances... Reckon I'll figure it out once I have the motor apart and have a good look at it.

:rockon:

[caseye]

if you are at all worried about it wiring loom, valve clearances etc) then take it to Mike at Drury Performance.He'd kill to work on your baby and he knows Nonda's back to front.
We will have to ride to the Tron on occassion to make sure you get a few rides in.

[Mom]

Good decision made. Never fear, we have just launched MAG-Waikato, great bunch of people, so you already have some good contacts via there. Make sure you update your details when you do move so we dont lose contact with you.

Re-wiring your entire bike? You sir are crazy :yes:

[MSTRS]

So, looks like I'm moving down the line again. Girlfriend isn't too happy about it though... Just sorting out the fine print details at the moment.



Good stuff.
As for girlfriend...if she 'dumps' you, then she wasn't worth your time.
My mother followed my father from Scotland to NZ in 1956....

[Phreak]

Re-wiring your entire bike? You sir are crazy :yes:

Haha I thought you already figured that out about me!!!

224927

[Mom]

Haha I thought you already figured that out about me!!!

No I first suspected it when I saaw you polishing your helmey on the deck of our unit :shit:

[Phreak]

There is a completely innocent explanation for that, I promise!!!

[Phreak]

Saw the progress on the frame today, powder-coat looks good... The guy had to remove a little bit of surface rust (as I expected) before starting, but I can happily say that I'm impressed so far! Only the subframe to be done now, it had a fair bit more (surface) rust than the frame and swing-arm...

Gonna try 'borrow' my girlfriends camera to get pics up soon!

[ynot slow]

Good stuff.
As for girlfriend...if she 'dumps' you, then she wasn't worth your time.
My mother followed my father from Scotland to NZ in 1956....

Bloody typical eh,went to shops for tea and got lost.

[1 Free Man]

Just so everyone knows, I got home from the amazing weekend in Taupo with MAG-NZ, unloaded all my gear to get ready to head back to work (Lifeguard training night), jumped back on the bike...

At about 5:50pm, I head off, just out of my driveway, heading down the road at about 40-45 km/h, a silver four door car pulls out of a road on the left (with a no-right turn sign posted) pretty much right in front of me, to go in the same direction as me. Okay, I think, natural evasion tactics kick in and I quickly move to go around him (no traffic coming the other way)...

If you were doing 40-45km/h why did you not just slot in behind the guy and wait and see what he was up to.??
That would have been natural evasion tactics not gunning it out and around the guy.
Sorry that you fucked up but no sympathy.
What difference would 10 or 15 seconds have made in the grand scheme of things??
were you riding Track at Taupo?????
So many unanswered questions

[Phreak]

Seriously...? Read the WHOLE thread, you might find the answers you are looking for... The topic has been widely discussed, and I still don't think I did anything wrong - but to be honest, I'm over it anyways. The bike is being rebuilt, even better than before, and I'm moving out of the chaos of Auckland, back to the serenity of the Waikato. Hopefully I'll be back on the roads before summer finishes, but I'm not in any rush, that's for sure - making sure everything on the bike is completely 100% first.

Oh, and by the way, I've never ridden track, I don't believe my skill level is up to that just yet - I was in Taupo with the guys and girls from MAG-NZ, supporting the fundraiser for the Spinal Trust Foundation. If you read through this thread, you'll see several posts from me stating that I'm not a speed freak or a cager hater in any way, shape, or form.

(This thread made it to number 1 in the 'most replied' category, mostly because people were so opinionated about my incident, like you from the sounds of things!)

[Katman]

This thread made it to number 1 in the 'most replied' category

Seriously man, who gives a fuck?

This thread's nothing for you to be proud of.

[yungatart]

Seriously man, who gives a fuck?

This thread's nothing for you to be proud of.

Maybe it is nothing to be proud of, but frank and open discussion of accidents can be a valuable learning tool, both for the original poster and for others who may read and remember what not to do if in a similar situation.

In that respect, this surely has been a great thread!

[Katman]

Maybe it is nothing to be proud of, but frank and open discussion of accidents can be a valuable learning tool, both for the original poster and for others who may read and remember what not to do if in a similar situation.

In that respect, this surely has been a great thread!

Methinks not Janet.


and I still don't think I did anything wrong

[yungatart]

We are all entitled to our opinion.
I have learned things by reading this thread...if I can, then obviously its not rocket science, therefore others can too, yes?

[Katman]

We are all entitled to our opinion.
I have learned things by reading this thread...if I can, then obviously its not rocket science, therefore others can too, yes?

I'll give you that. Let's hope so.

[Patrick]

No I first suspected it when I saaw you polishing your helmey on the deck of our unit :shit:


There is a completely innocent explanation for that, I promise!!!

Masturbate on your own deck, ya perv.....

[MSTRS]

Leave him alone, you big bully. There were no other children :innocent: around and he drew the short straw for who was going to scare the girls...

[Virago]

... The topic has been widely discussed, and I still don't think I did anything wrong...
Dude - the hospitals and morgues are full of people who "didn't do anything wrong". Being secure in your own righteousness isn't going to help you none when the shit hits the fan.

Accelerating around someone who failed to give way was a mistake - you need to learn from that and move on. It's not a big deal.

There is one Golden Rule of the road which supercedes right-of-way - that is that all road users must take every measure possible to avoid collision - regardless of who has right-of-way.

Whether or not you have learnt from this, I suspect others have certainly done so - it takes events like yours to remind us all about the pointlessness of asserting right at the expense of safety.

[MarkH]

and I still don't think I did anything wrong

From what I understand of the incident from what has been posted here I don't think you did anything wrong either. But what I wonder is whether you learned anything and whether you would do anything differently in the future if presented with the same situation.

[Patrick]

Leave him alone, you big bully. There were no other children :innocent: around and he drew the short straw for who was going to scare the girls...

It is what it is... stop PC ing it... It's just plain wrong...

[MSTRS]

Cruel, dude. Just cruel. The evening was cold...

[Phreak]

So it seems I STILL need to point out a few of the facts of my accident, because people think they are God and that they know better than those that were actually there (ie. Me, the two witnesses, etc etc...)

1. I did NOT accelerate to go around the car, I maintained my rate of speed (around 40 to 45 km/h), resulting in the (attempted) overtaking maneuver, as the car was still accelerating from a stopped position at the intersection.

2. The car pulled out of the side-road only a matter of 10 to 15 metres in front of me (as both witnesses attested) to which I would have only had (at most) one second to react to, and completely failed to indicate right into the adjacent driveway on the right hand side of the road.

3. As there was no oncoming traffic, with white centre road-marking lines, I was well within my rights to overtake the car, who was moving slower than I, and creating a hazard to me by pulling out in front of me.

4. The car driver finally admitted he did NOT perform an adequate 'look' up the road (in my direction), only a mere glance, and did not see me so close.


HOWEVER, if the exact same thing happened to me again, would I do the same thing, and attempt to overtake the car...? No, methinks not. For what it's worth (and I bet more than a few of you will say 'I told you so!' to this) I am upgrading my brakes to ensure I can at least reduce my speed (if not stop completely) if someone decides to pull out in-front of me again. Of course, if you've been reading this thread from the very start, you'd know that I am in the precess of upgrading a lot of my bike's features, to ensure it is completely safe for the road again. I still don't think I did anything wrong (apart from being in the wrong place at the wrong time!) but, when I do get back on the roads again I will take what I've learnt from this experience and be a better rider for it. Like they say, what doesn't kill you only makes you stronger!

And once again, thanks to those of who have been supportive of me for the past month or so! :)

[Phreak]

Oh yeah, the whole 'polishing my helmet' thing - I was cleaning the bugs off my new Shark RSi, you filthy buggers... Gees! :innocent:

[MarkH]

HOWEVER, if the exact same thing happened to me again, would I do the same thing, and attempt to overtake the car...? No, methinks not. For what it's worth (and I bet more than a few of you will say 'I told you so!' to this) I am upgrading my brakes to ensure I can at least reduce my speed (if not stop completely) if someone decides to pull out in-front of me again.

No 'I told you so' from me, I think your actions were reasonable and that you shouldn't have to anticipate the driver doing something stupid & illegal. Unfortunately experience often teaches us that we need to do things that we shouldn't need to.

The important thing is that you are OK and therefore have had the opportunity to learn from this experience. I wish you many more decades of happy motorcycling.

[Katman]

I wish you many more decades of happy motorcycling.

I think he's more interested in another twenty posts to his thread - thanks all the same.

[Phreak]

I think he's more interested in another twenty posts to his thread - thanks all the same.

Lol just for you, Katman, just for you... :woohoo:

[Kickaha]

3. I was well within my rights to overtake the car, who was moving slower than I, and creating a hazard to me by pulling out in front of me.


So does being in the right make it hurt any less?

[terbang]

Why? Were you pissed off that he pulled out in front of you?

Here we go, more self serving grandstanding.

[Katman]

Here we go, more self serving grandstanding.

You're welcome Bruce.

I'm here to ask the tough questions.

[MarkH]

So does being in the right make it hurt any less?

To be honest - for me it would. I get really annoyed with myself when I make a mistake, unfortunately being human I can't stop it happening now & then - but I always try. If I was injured by the stupid actions of another motorist that would be bad enough, but if it was due to my own mistake that would add another level of pain to me.

TBH
I think some of you guys are misunderstanding Phreak.
I suspect that "I was well within my rights to overtake the car" does not mean "I am happy with the outcome, I would do the same thing again but next time I'd speed up and really ram that cunt, if possible flying through the window and head-butting the fucker!"

Most of us would prefer to be in the right, but prefer even more to avoid the accident in the first place. I think that we have all take evasive action to avoid accidents even though the other person is in the wrong (failing to give way or whatever) because we value our lives/health/vehicle. Being in an accident hurts and causes great inconvenience, being in the wrong adds insurance costs and possibly fines/demerits as well. I guess being wrong just adds insult to injury, pretty much literally.

I think that the other driver was at fault, showing no consideration for other road users, caring only about what he wanted to do and causing an accident. Phreak didn't just ride into the back of the other vehicle, he took evasive action to avoid the accident - that was a sensible thing to do and we could have congratulated him on his actions had the other driver not committed his second offence and turned without indicating causing the accident that Phreak was half way through avoiding. From Phreak's account I can imagine no way that the other driver legally turned right to cause the accident, if he had indicated for at least 3 seconds before turning then Phreak would have been long gone.
Sometimes you just need to work extra hard to avoid the accident that another road user seems determined to have.

[Katman]

Here's my take on the accident. (Yes, I know I wasn't there but trust me, I'm psychic).

Car turns left in front of Phreak. Close but not that close judging by Phreak's use of the words "pretty much right in front of me". (He also thought he'd passed the pedestrian crossing but couldn't be sure - go back and look at the street view to see how far back the crossing is from the corner).

At 40-45kph I believe there would have been plenty of room to slow and remain behind the car but unfortunately Phreaks 'fuck you cager' manoeuvre coincided with the driver thinking "Opps, that was a bit close, I'll get my right hand turn done as soon as possible so that motorcyclist isn't held up behind me".

Two wrongs that made a wrong.

[Edbear]

Here's my take on the accident. (Yes, I know I wasn't there but trust me, I'm psychic).

Car turns left in front of Phreak. Close but not that close judging by Phreak's use of the words "pretty much right in front of me". (He also thought he'd passed the pedestrian crossing but couldn't be sure - go back and look at the street view to see how far back the crossing is from the corner).

At 40-45kph I believe there would have been plenty of room to slow and remain behind the car but unfortunately Phreaks 'fuck you cager' manoeuvre coincided with the driver thinking "Opps, that was a bit close, I'll get my right hand turn done as soon as possible so that motorcyclist isn't held up behind me".

Two wrongs that made a wrong.

Sums you up nicely doesn't it. Do make sure to share your lottery wins around eh?

[swbarnett]

Close but not that close judging by Phreak's use of the words "pretty much right in front of me".

Did you read this?

2. The car pulled out of the side-road only a matter of 10 to 15 metres in front of me (as both witnesses attested)

From what I can see the only mistake phreak made was maintaining speed. I can't say for certain (no, I wasn't there either and, unlike you, I'm not psychic) but it appears to me that if Phreak had twisted the wrist in a big way he may well have been past the car before they turned right (I've done this myself once or twice).

[Katman]

Did you read this?


Did you miss the fact that it's taken till page 28 for there to suddenly be two witnesses?

[Fatt Max]

29 pages in and I am still certain of one thing.

Phreak is one sexy bastard......

Thats all.......

[pc220]

Did you miss the fact that it's taken till page 28 for there to suddenly be two witnesses?

Always been two witnesses, himself and car driver.
1 car driver + 1 bike rider = 2 witnesses
1+1=2
My three year old daughter was kind enough to do the maths for you.:facepalm:

[Maha]

29 pages in and I am still certain of one thing.

Phreak is one sexy bastard......

Thats all.......

Polishing helmets is his forte'.....:rockon:

[MarkH]

Car turns left in front of Phreak. Close but not that close judging by Phreak's use of the words "pretty much right in front of me".

It could be that ''pretty much right in front of me" meant too close to stop in time without hitting the rear of that vehicle, but with just enough gap to allow for a quick dodge to the right to avoid hitting the vehicle. It could also be that with upgraded brakes Phreak MAY have been able to stop (he has mentioned that he will now upgrade the brakes) but not with the brakes as they were at the time.

[Phreak]

If the ignorant and self-loving Katman still feels the need to try and slur me, so be it. Pretty sure he knows what I think about his opinion. The facts remain - I know exactly what happened, and that I did my best at the time to avoid the accident. It's called the 'shit happens' theory, and that no-one can avoid every hazard every time, because some tend to occur when it's too late to do anything about it - as was the case in my accident.

Maybe the above mentioned person should just do as I have done, and get over it.
(Actually, I think it's kinda funny that he seems to feel bigger by putting other riders down! You poor man, you...!)

[Patrick]

Oh yeah, the whole 'polishing my helmet' thing - I was cleaning the bugs off my new Shark RSi, you filthy buggers... Gees! :innocent:

"Stop churching it up...."

Name the movie that line was from...???


29 pages in and I am still certain of one thing.

Phreak is one sexy bastard......

Thats all.......

Sexy?

Or perverted...?

Not on someone elses deck... :facepalm:

[yungatart]

"Stop churching it up...."

Name the movie that line was from...???



Sexy?

Or perverted...?

Not on someone elses deck... :facepalm:

Well, he shared our quarters (his own room), and I certainly wouldn't condone him polishing his helmet on our deck!!!
Nah, if you are going to be engaging in dodgy behaviour, best not do it around me!

[Phreak]

So I guess I'm gonna be forever known as 'that' guy, huh? Lucky my name is 'Phreak' already... Lol :facepalm:

[Fatt Max]

So I guess I'm gonna be forever known as 'that' guy, huh? Lucky my name is 'Phreak' already... Lol :facepalm:

I'll always know you as my little bubble of spunk you big bag of love you.....

[Ratti]

FM..behave dude..Aunti Ratti has her whip ready to go See here for visual proof http://www.bronzwellington.org.nz/gallery/1012/bronz-wellington-inc-annual-charity-ride-saturday-4th-december-2010/ You'll know me when you see me.( 50 something, almost my age sadly! } the Yellow beastie is Ducky..note how STILL no-one will park beside me? And I thought it was just The Ratmobile no-one wanted to be seen next to.

[MSTRS]

FM? Behave? He IS behaving. Here.
You don't want to see him at camp tho...

[Pascal]

Car turns left in front of Phreak. Close but not that close judging by Phreak's use of the words "pretty much right in front of me". (He also thought he'd passed the pedestrian crossing but couldn't be sure - go back and look at the street view to see how far back the crossing is from the corner).

You know, I'm pretty sure that in the situation that Phreak found himself there was fuck all he could have done at the time. But there are a few things that might have averted the crash.

If on a quiet road with no cars to raise a fear reflex in a vehicle waiting to turn into your path:

(a) You should be backing off ever so gently.
(b) Bit of a weave to break the focus point for them and;
(c) Covering clutch and brakes and evaluating escape options because the fucker is going to turn in front of you.

Anticipation and awareness are our survival pocket aces. Leastways, I don't think you can survive the daily commute in Auckland without them :)

[Patrick]

So I guess I'm gonna be forever known as 'that' guy, huh? Lucky my name is 'Phreak' already... Lol :facepalm:

LOL... "Must spread rep before Phreak gets any more..." :innocent:

Too late...

He "spread his own rep" apparently...:shit:

Have a good day... "that..."

[Phreak]

I still protest innocence...!

[ynot slow]

I still protest innocence...!

Typical Honda rider response to all things............................................ .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ..........................................usually ending with "it's the sheeps' fault".:facepalm:

[Phreak]

I'd love to know what's 'typical' about Honda riders...? Seems I'm out of the loop on that one...

[Swoop]

You don't want to see him at camp tho...
This one time, at band camp...:rockon: