Aging motorcyclists - Close Up tonight 30/11/10 [Archive]

cheshirecat

30th November 2010, 16:33

george formby

30th November 2010, 16:40

:woohoo: Good shit!

That was easy:yes:
Customer " Do you do de-caf?"
Moi (small shriek of excitement) "yes, but why?"
Cust "Caffeine is really bad for you"
Moi (squirming in delight) "thats just propagandist twaddle put about by scientist's in the pay of big Tea"
Cust " do you have soy as well?"
:facepalm:
Cheers ducati lover, I've had a dull day.

dipshit

30th November 2010, 16:42

Motu

30th November 2010, 16:46

Will the presenter have his Norton there?

The Pastor

30th November 2010, 16:48

I like motorbikes

NONONO

30th November 2010, 16:50

Just sent them this

I will be watching this with interest, along with about 90,000 other motorcyclists. I'm an 'aging returning biker', well over 50.

From experience I believe this 'headline' has been over stated. The accident ratio is less than other demographic age groups and less in terms of engine capacity.
A key accident cause is oncomming vehicles in the middle of the road. This often can be interpreted as 'rider loosing control' when in fact the accident is caused by the rider correcting for the head on collision causing the bike to run off the road and the oncoming vehicle continuing non the wiser.

In addition ACC accident stats are notoriously badly derived and don't pass rigourous statisical scrutinity so it would be unwise for these to be quoted in a serious debate.

A poll a few months ago on a popular national bike forum concerning accidents among mature riders (over 40) reported remarkably few accidents over 20 years with the overwelming majority minor (falling over when stationary being the most common).
Ths adds up because our insurance premiums (and they should know) are relatively low. the average being $500 fully comprehensive. If the stats were that bad we'd be talking thousands to insure.

Yours

Bloody marvelous post and well said that man.
Almost became a RAF (Rider At Fault) or RLC (Rider Looses Control) stat at the weekend.
On a long straight road into Cambridge, doing less than the speed limit, perfect visibility when I spotted a large black station wagon coming towards me in the distance. As the car closed the driver turned towards me, crossing the center line with both right and left wheels.
Because I'm paranoid anyway I had been watching the SOB all the way and managed to flick hard left and then hard right, barely avoiding first the car then the ditch.
The driver was staring at me the whole time and there where no turn offs that would have made crossing the center line even remotely rational.
Scared the shit outa me.
Once again, great post mate.....and well done for letting Close Up know in advance that we refute the sensationalist bollix...

Virago

30th November 2010, 16:50

george formby

30th November 2010, 16:54

You're not by any chance an aging motorcyclist, are you...?

Oh know:shit: is it that obvious? Life is what you make it & I like to make mine shiny.
I shall vacate the thread now. Thank you.

slofox

30th November 2010, 16:55

I'm definitely NOT an agING motorcyclist...I am well and truly agED...

so they can sod off...

cheshirecat

30th November 2010, 17:04

Gee you talk some shit.
Just throwing some of their shit back

vifferman

30th November 2010, 17:13

That was easy:yes:
Customer " Do you do de-caf?"
Moi (small shriek of excitement) "yes, but why?"
Cust "Caffeine is really bad for you"
Moi (squirming in delight) "thats just propagandist twaddle put about by scientist's in the pay of big Tea"
Cust " do you have soy as well?"
:facepalm:
Cheers ducati lover, I've had a dull day.
Y'know, when I newst to work in Ponsonby, and frequented Santos several times a day, I used to LOL at the seemingly pretentious Ponsnobbyites who ordered "a decaf trim soy latte". I mean, WTF is the point?
However (but!) then I became sometwat cardiologically challenged, and although I would never stoop to pretending milk, decaf coffee has become almost [I]de rigeur (I must admit to the occasional real coffee). Opinionated hypocrite? Who - moi? :innocent:

slofox

30th November 2010, 17:34

decaf...not 4 me.

If I have enough coffee before I go riding it makes the bike go faster...so it must work on engines as well as people...:innocent:

Should tell that to Close-Up...

PrincessBandit

30th November 2010, 17:43

Saw the shorts for Close Up and speeding is one of the hot topics tonight; more interestingly despite saying that "baby boomers" are being targeted, all those stopped (in the short clip) were riders. Hmmmmm. Any bets on a propaganda push????

Blackshear

30th November 2010, 17:46

I'll get a bigger bike soon so they can't catch me.

JimO

30th November 2010, 17:47

heard on the wireless that born again bikers are the new target

NighthawkNZ

30th November 2010, 17:50

heard on the wireless that born again bikers are the new target
and how can you target that... how can they tell if you are a born again biker... FOS

JimO

30th November 2010, 17:51

lets face it motorcyclists are a pack of cunts

Katman

30th November 2010, 17:59

Just throwing some of their shit back

Trouble is, two tales of shit don't one tale of truth make.

JimO

30th November 2010, 18:02

wher are you from............it says new zealand doesnt it!! ha

PrincessBandit

30th November 2010, 18:05

Ah, it's all youse old buggers! :facepalm:

phill-k

30th November 2010, 18:06

tv3 is doing a piece on teenage drivers

dipshit

30th November 2010, 18:06

wher are you from............it says new zealand doesnt it!! ha

Yeah, they came across like a bunch of wankers.

5t3a1F

30th November 2010, 18:07

bloody campervans now aye...glad they gave us the heads up

Kickaha

30th November 2010, 18:08

Yeah, they came across like a bunch of wankers.

Whining little fuckers was my first thought

MadDuck

30th November 2010, 18:09

bloody campervans now aye...glad they gave us the heads up

Yeah thats what I thought......

NighthawkNZ

30th November 2010, 18:09

Well that made bikers look like a pack of wining dick heads...

However wow 119kph you are going to die... and the one that got done when passing the the vehicle...

Duc

30th November 2010, 18:10

Those motorcyclists featured would make you proud to be a motorcyclist...NOT.

The pricks have ruined it for everyone by their dumb feckin ATTITUDE.

Berries

30th November 2010, 18:11

KB on the TV then.

Mom

30th November 2010, 18:12

cheshirecat

30th November 2010, 18:12

Trouble is, two tales of shit doesn't one tale of truth make.
I'm ever the optimist in the hope of discovering some fertiliser somewhere.
Anyhow having seen the, well what passes for news on Close up. I mean I knew it. was going to be shallow but not that shallow. I mean.

I feel an Oscar Wiilde quote comming re fame re publicity.
At least will be keeping an eye for parked up campers etc.

PrincessBandit

30th November 2010, 18:13

wher are you from............it says new zealand doesnt it!! ha

And did I hear "ah, my speedo doesn't even work...." ????? Along with "I never look at my speedo". Bloody hell.

dmc

30th November 2010, 18:13

I was under the impression that a lazer reading should not be taken through glass as it interfered with the reading, but I guess the Police are rule breakers too :innocent:

Katman

30th November 2010, 18:15

Good editing too, make sure you gather up the real retards for your news item.

And while I'm absolutely sure they filmed motorcyclists who showed a completely different attitude, the fact that they didn't show any of them shows the true extent of the shit-fight that we have ahead of us.

Until we can be seen en masse by the general public in a far better light we will continue to push shit uphill.

meteor

30th November 2010, 18:15

Balanced reporting? researched story? nope, just some speeding mouthy bikers to make us all proud. In fact the gang member had the best attitude... go figure!

Pussy

30th November 2010, 18:16

And did I hear "ah, my speedo doesn't even work...." ????? Bloody hell.

That was the Aprilia Shiver?
Ask Hitcher.... it may very well not work!

Pussy

30th November 2010, 18:18

Ah, it's all youse old buggers! :facepalm:

But some of us never stopped!

greasegirl6

30th November 2010, 18:18

The cops should be focusing on cars that go too slow, I mean, what the fcuk are you doing goin 80 kph on an open highway and you're not towing a trailor, not heavier that 2500kg's and not behind some other captain slow? Slow drivers are the cause of frustration, and frustration leads to stress, and stress leads to the uncontrollable feeling of wanting to strangle the living shit out of the slow bugger in front of you so you go hooning past with a finger in the air yelling "ya fookin wanker!"

sinned

30th November 2010, 18:19

Balanced reporting? researched story? nope, just some speeding mouthy bikers to make us all proud. In fact the gang member had the best attitude... go figure!
Showing a gang member actually helps as there are few gang members on the road in relation to the bike rider population and the general public knows that. And he had a reasonable attitude - a real dude.

Mom

30th November 2010, 18:20

And while I'm absolutely sure they filmed motorcyclists who showed a completely different attitude, the fact that they didn't show any of them shows the true extent of the shit-fight that we have ahead of us.

Until we can be seen en masse by the general public in a far better light we will continue to push shit uphill.

Yepper, and we will win that battle. Of that I have absoltely NO DOUBT!

meteor

30th November 2010, 18:21

heard on the wireless...

Dude, I haven't heard that expression since I left Dunedin 20 plus years ago... 'the wireless' now refers to broadband! We had an old radio that had valves, cooked on a coal range etc etc... ah the good old days.

Subike

30th November 2010, 18:21

I sent Mark an Email, asking why during the filming of the programe, the police car overtook another car in pursit of a motorcycle on a bend to the left. A very good example of carless use of a motorvehicle.
I asked if a motorcycle was coming the opposite direction around that corner, who would be in the wrong if an incident happened?
I doubbt if I will get a reply.
But I have to agree with others, the representitives shown were not ............
We should all email Mark tonight on thisreport, neg and poss views

crystalball

30th November 2010, 18:22

they love us to be soo interested in us. But to the point where we are loved too much. The future is concerning as the freedom off the ride has been taken away.

bogan

30th November 2010, 18:22

Yepper, and we will win that battle. Of that I have absoltely NO DOUBT!

sounds like close up should be getting a lump of coal for biased reporting! wonder if we could get JC to cover that story?

Mom

30th November 2010, 18:26

sounds like close up should be getting a lump of coal for biased reporting! wonder if we could get JC to cover that story?

Oh, what a great idea. We gave the reporter and cameraman that did the item last year oranges for being "nice"

http://tvnz.co.nz/politics-news/bikers-play-santa-politicians-3315351/video

Coal to Close Up for the bias shown in that article may be a really good hook for this years event :yes:

baptist

30th November 2010, 18:26

And while I'm absolutely sure they filmed motorcyclists who showed a completely different attitude, the fact that they didn't show any of them shows the true extent of the shit-fight that we have ahead of us.

Until we can be seen en masse by the general public in a far better light we will continue to push shit uphill.

+1 (I agree with Katman :shit:). That was not a good program, it was also totally different in attitude towards those the segment was about (bikers) compared to Campbell (young car drivers).

Man it is an uphill battle for sure.

shrub

30th November 2010, 18:27

Motorcycle speed is not the main cause of motorcycle crashes, so why is targetting speeding motorcyclists on a country road their sole strategy to reduce the motorcycle crash rate? Kind of like dealing with the weeds in my garden by spraying roundup on the grass verge.

Pussy

30th November 2010, 18:33

Man it is an uphill battle for sure.

That it is!
It's all about perception. If we all clean up our acts as motorcyclists, and get seen as favourable in the public eye, the cause will go our way a bit easier.

Oakie

30th November 2010, 18:36

That it is!
It's all about perception. If we all clean up our acts as motorcylists, and get seen as favourable in the public eye, the cause will go our way a bit easier.

Trouble is that it's not the well behaved folks without the attitude who get the publicity. 99% of us can be good but it'll be the other 1% who get the publicity (not that I believe that 99% or anywhere near it are without blame on the road)

dipshit

30th November 2010, 18:39

Motorcycle speed is not the main cause of motorcycle crashes

The concern wasn't about motorcycle crashes... it was about serious and fatal motorcycle crashes. The majority of these do happen on country roads at higher speeds with the motorcycle rider being predominantly at fault.

Voltaire

30th November 2010, 18:43

Did 1100 kms in the weekend on the Old Ducati....combined age of 81.....in fact the youngest combined bike/rider age was 70....

I've always wanted to call a cop " Son" like they used to do to me....:innocent:

5t3a1F

30th November 2010, 18:44

I might be mistaken, but when being given a speeding ticket, aren't you entitled to ask to see the calibration certificate for the device that was used to determine your speed?

dmc

30th November 2010, 18:49

I might be mistaken, but when being given a speeding ticket, aren't you entitled to ask to see the calibration certificate for the device that was used to determine your speed?

As I said earlier unless things have changed I didn't think shooting through glass was an accepted use of a laser. So can't see its even valid?

yachtie10

30th November 2010, 18:54

May be wrong but i thought bthe officer that took the reading must be the one issuing a ticket?
Happened in auckland a while back where they were using overpasses and radioing ahead, I understood that the tickets were thrown out

Any of our boys in Blue confirm or deny

Program was about the standard of journalism I expect (poor)

oldrider

30th November 2010, 18:58

Brian d marge

30th November 2010, 19:02

rastuscat

30th November 2010, 19:10

I might be mistaken, but when being given a speeding ticket, aren't you entitled to ask to see the calibration certificate for the device that was used to determine your speed?

You are absolutely correct. You ARE mistaken.

You can ask for anything, including the officers birth certificate. You can even ask the officer to do 10 press ups. It's a question of what they HAVE to give you.

You are entitled to request documents pertaining to your case pursuant to the NZ Bill of Rights Act and the Privacy Act, but the right is not an immediate one. They have a "reasonable time" to comply, the courts normally think that 14 days is reasonable.

So there.

baptist

30th November 2010, 19:13

Brian d marge

30th November 2010, 19:14

baptist

30th November 2010, 19:18

Dude, I haven't heard that expression since I left Dunedin 20 plus years ago... 'the wireless' now refers to broadband! We had an old radio that had valves, cooked on a coal range etc etc... ah the good old days.

did you also live in "a cardboard box in t' middle of the road":nya:

rastuscat

30th November 2010, 19:18

A blow Jobs not an unreasonable request .....

....................if the officers name is Millicent............

Looking forward to stopping you one day Brian. You'll be disappointed at being turned down on the BJ, but we would both have a laugh.

5t3a1F

30th November 2010, 19:19

You are absolutely correct. You ARE mistaken.

You can ask for anything, including the officers birth certificate. You can even ask the officer to do 10 press ups. It's a question of what they HAVE to give you.

You are entitled to request documents pertaining to your case pursuant to the NZ Bill of Rights Act and the Privacy Act, but the right is not an immediate one. They have a "reasonable time" to comply, the courts normally think that 14 days is reasonable.

So there.

glad you got that of yer chest, although all you have managed to do is contradict yourself. you are saying that you ARE in fact entitled to that information, it's just the avenue of pursuit that is different.

anything to say regarding the laser being used through glass, or the ticketing officer having to be the one taking the reading, or do you only reply to posts were you can inflate your ego by showing us all how right YOU are?

so there

Ronin

30th November 2010, 19:20

So were BRONZ or MAG approached or comment on this story? Do they have anything to say?

Brian d marge

30th November 2010, 19:25

....................if the officers name is Millicent............

Looking forward to stopping you one day Brian. You'll be disappointed at being turned down on the BJ, but we would both have a laugh.

two speeding tickets in 10 years ,,,, you would probably make more money wearing Officer Magnificents dress

Stephen

Toaster

30th November 2010, 19:28

TV1 Close Up are advertising a programme comparing problems of aging motorcyclists with Boy Racers. I will be watching with interest :facepalm:

I would rather grow old riding my motorcycle than riding an armchair.:scooter:

The media can kiss my kevlar bottom.

SpeedMonger

30th November 2010, 19:32

Just saw that close up program, what a pretzel that Mark Sainsbury is, his presentation is crap!

The Police section looked like a badly acted TV spoof comedy, I expected to see Benny Hill or Dick Emery appear at any minute! :killingme

What do you expect from a guy that looks like he's been buggered by a walrus. The only handlebars he's been near are the ones on his feckn face, [or his boyfriends].

I had to ride on the road edgeline on the way home tonight (100kph open road) as two oncoming vehicles encroached fully into my lane passing a road sweeper truck cleaning up after a reseal, but being a slightly aged motorcyclist it must have been MY fault. :angry:

BIG DOUG

30th November 2010, 19:38

Mark sainsbury is a motorcyclist he has a very tasty norton 650ss,hell I'm an aged motorcyclist but I never stopped riding from the day I got my licence,the interesting thing is the cop never asked how long any of the bike riders had been riding?

shrub

30th November 2010, 19:40

being a slightly aged motorcyclist it must have been MY fault. :angry:

Sadly that is the increasingly common viewpoint. If us motorcyclists refuse to attribute any blame on other road users, is it any wonder that the media and general public don't agree with us?

rastuscat

30th November 2010, 19:43

anything to say regarding the laser being used through glass, or the ticketing officer having to be the one taking the reading, or do you only reply to posts were you can inflate your ego by showing us all how right YOU are?

so there

OOOOoooooooooooooooooooo.....................diddu ms. Widdle Wastus upset widdle 5t3a1F did he?

Yes, lasers work through glass. It reduces the range, but then, the max range is over a km, and speeds are normally checked at far less than that.

No, the ticketing officer doesn't have to issue the ticket. But if you defend the ticket, the ticketing officer has to call the checking officer as a witness i.e. 2 cops having to give evidence. Not uncommon. One gives evidence of having checked the speed, the other of the drivers identification.

I only reply to posts to inflate my ego. My helmet is 2 cm too big, and I need all the help I can get.

So there.

eelracing

30th November 2010, 19:47

dmc

30th November 2010, 19:54

OOOOoooooooooooooooooooo.....................diddu ms. Widdle Wastus upset widdle 5t3a1F did he?

Yes, lasers work through glass. It reduces the range, but then, the max range is over a km, and speeds are normally checked at far less than that.

No, the ticketing officer doesn't have to issue the ticket. But if you defend the ticket, the ticketing officer has to call the checking officer as a witness i.e. 2 cops having to give evidence. Not uncommon. One gives evidence of having checked the speed, the other of the drivers identification.

I only reply to posts to inflate my ego. My helmet is 2 cm too big, and I need all the help I can get.

So there.

Aren't they only meant to be used at under 600m's and thats for car's, bikes are even harder to get a clear reading so I would think that it would have to be pretty close?
From what I have read they recommend not using lasers through glass, rain or dusty conditions as it can give false readings, they also seem to say heat haze can even screw them up. The issue I have with them is that you have to prove they are wrong when they should be proving you are, I think proof it has been tested before use with a trial run using a patrol car etc should have to be given at the time not fought for later.

superman

30th November 2010, 20:03

That media segment totally makes me expect that being 18 my insurance will be reasonable compared to seasoned riders. They say they pay $500 for full comprehensive... my quote was $1700 :facepalm:

Fuck you media... got my hopes up

Wrestler

30th November 2010, 20:14

any accident involving a motorcycle becomes a bike accident whether another type of vehicle cause it or not. Fact is cars cause most bike accidents. i guess "car accident" does not read as dramatically as "motorbike accident".
These 'safety' campaigns are insulting to me, if/when i get pulled over i m ight ask the cops if they are doing their own capaign given they are responsible for a number of motorcyclist deaths throught there maneuvres. can someone advise how many such deaths have occured in the last 12 to 18 months?

Kickaha

30th November 2010, 20:44

If us motorcyclists refuse to attribute any blame on other road users,

I've always thought Motorcyclists were very good at attributing blame on other road users regardless of whether it's deserved or not

Fact is cars cause most bike accidents.

Lets see you back that claim up

Katman

30th November 2010, 20:47

if/when i get pulled over i m ight ask the cops if they are doing their own capaign given they are responsible for a number of motorcyclist deaths throught there maneuvres. can someone advise how many such deaths have occured in the last 12 to 18 months?

Ahhh, one?

And I'm sorry to say that your claim that most motorcycle accidents are caused by cars is complete bollocks.

ducatilover

30th November 2010, 20:52

Just managed to watch the close up segment on the web here, not the best obfuscation I've seen before. It was biased. If I was to be pulled over and told I was speeding, chances are, it was true.
If you get pulled over don't give a camera man a stupid story, attempting to pour testosterone all over the camera, it's a political issue, not a Travolta movie. What a fucking bell end!

carver

30th November 2010, 20:54

piss off old cunts

We will own you

mormon few

shrub

30th November 2010, 21:09

I've always thought Motorcyclists were very good at attributing blame on other road users regardless of whether it's deserved or not

They used to, but the pendulum has swung the other way and now we daren't even consider that the behaviour of other road users puts us in danger. It's called political correctness - don't offend anyone and agree with the majority.

Motorcyclists these days are nice, inoffensive and apologetic.

twinbruva

30th November 2010, 21:09

I have just gone through the last six pages and I can't find more than one or two coherent posts.

TVNZ grasps on the negatives, no matter what the subject (Pike River anyone?) to get the numb-nuts' attention at dinner time. Most of those bikers on Close Up played into their hands.

I will challenge TVNZ to get a more balanced view and interview some bikers who have had time to evaluate what will be put before the viewers, just as the 'opposing side' had. Funny how all the bikers' views were 'on the spot' (when practically everyone freaks out with a big camera jammed in their face) but the cop got to sit quietly in an office (or wherever) and calmy spout his bullshit.

TVNZ are cunts.

schrodingers cat

30th November 2010, 21:26

And did I hear "ah, my speedo doesn't even work...." ????? Along with "I never look at my speedo". Bloody hell.

Perhaps a tax token for motorcyle not to WOF standard would have made them STFU

Mark sainsbury is a motorcyclist he has a very tasty norton 650ss

MR Sainsbury is a total walrus mustachios sell out TOOL. I don't give a fuck if he has a tasty bike. I only hope the wind in his face reduces the taste of cock in his mouth.

I never liked Paul Holmes either

scumdog

30th November 2010, 21:28

Aren't they only meant to.....

Ah. the kiss of death to many a legal argument....

James Deuce

30th November 2010, 21:29

They used to, but the pendulum has swung the other way and now we daren't even consider that the behaviour of other road users puts us in danger. It's called political correctness - don't offend anyone and agree with the majority.

Motorcyclists these days are nice, inoffensive and apologetic.

Inoffensive and apologetic?

No, I still say most motorcyclists can't ride for shit, and refuse to consider the road they share with other road users as anything other than a playground to exercise their toys on.

How is that apologetic?

Or inoffensive?

Personally I think motorcyclists put far too much energy into trying to attribute blame in situations where it's either pointless or just trying to justify yet another bonehead move due to "I own The Road-itis".

Your definition of Political Correctness is skewed. The definition of PC is bending the truth to avoid offending a minority. In the context of KB that means never saying anything bad about other motorcyclists lest we offend the people who post here. On the road motorcyclists ARE the minority. Somehow a justifiably loathed minority. Probably the only minority in NZ the rest of the country not only dares to criticise, but would support moves to remove us from the road altogether.

It also means giving other motorcyclists permission to never, ever take responsibility for creating a mess in the first instance.

It's always the road surface, or car drivers, or barriers, or road design, or sheep, but it's never the idiot at the bars doing something he shouldn't have, like buy a bike beyond his skills, never actually work on or understand just what those skills are or simply understand that the road rules just are and you deserve that ticket/jail term.

I know of one single vehicle motorcycle accident in the last 10 years that wasn't the rider's "fault", and no it wasn't either of my two. TWO, FFS. Thoroughly ashamed of that. Most other people celebrate it and have a giggle, just like they do with their speeding tickets and careless and dangerous driving charges.

Katman

30th November 2010, 21:31

Loving the delivery Jim.

I'm giving you a gold star.

baptist

30th November 2010, 21:37

:shit: Yet another thread that has turned into a bun fight:yes: Soon it will time for the big hats again...

Katman

30th November 2010, 21:39

:shit: Yet another thread that has turned into a bun fight:yes: Soon it will time for the big hats again...

You're a sensitive wee thing, aren't you?

You should have seen the bad old days.

baptist

30th November 2010, 21:42

You're a sensitive wee thing, aren't you?

You should have seen the bad old days.

:shit: Glad I didn't:facepalm:

ducatilover

30th November 2010, 21:48

:shit: Yet another thread that has turned into a bun fight:yes: Soon it will time for the big hats again...

Bun fight? Is that a double entendre or am I just Hondafied?

Spearfish

30th November 2010, 21:50

So where to now?
Nothing is new or different than before the program, we all know some non riders think mentally you have to have some pages glued together to ride a bike.

This is basically the gist what my non riding mates said after the TV program:

Those guys have worked hard for their image, its what being a biker is all about isn't it?:gob:
Basically being a biker is selective law compliance and selective social responsibility.:facepalm:

We all protested for these guys rights to be this way regarding ACC?:shutup:

Just farken sad really......

schrodingers cat

30th November 2010, 21:50

:shit: Glad I didn't:facepalm:

Obviously you are tied up with your eyes taped open and being FORCED to read this shocking forum.

Distract your captors and let Lassie slip home to alert the cavalry

kiwifruit

30th November 2010, 21:52

Take it to the track ya old buggers! :sunny:

baptist

30th November 2010, 21:53

Bun fight? Is that a double entendre or am I just Hondafied?

Sorry Bro... Sadly I am not that quick so it must be, me thinks, way to many Hondas in your life :laugh::laugh:

ducatilover

30th November 2010, 22:00

Sorry Bro... Sadly I am not that quick so it must be, me thinks, way to many Hondas in your life :laugh::laugh:

I knew it :facepalm:

Muppet

30th November 2010, 22:04

Well I thought that toothless dwarf that got stopped was really funny! He had that sort of squeaky Mike Tyson/smokers voice. I couldn't stop laughing whenever he spoke "I haven't done anyfing wrong!":killingme

baptist

30th November 2010, 22:10

Obviously you are tied up with your eyes taped open and being FORCED to read this shocking forum.

Distract your captors and let Lassie slip home to alert the cavalry

How did you know:wacko:?? At this very minute I am trying to get out but the damned dog just ran off, humped the horses leg and scarpered....:lol: woe is me:bleh: I hate Collies.

miloking

30th November 2010, 23:54

What a utter faggotry of a program...

Also good reminder to have the laser jammer i've just pre-ordered mounted on a rear of the bike since there are cocksuckers with laser guns hiding in camper vans on every corner...

Gremlin

1st December 2010, 01:49

Someone show me a motorcyclist that isn't aging? Or any human getting younger?

We're all aging... So there.

schrodingers cat

1st December 2010, 06:52

Someone show me a motorcyclist that isn't aging? Or any human getting younger?

We're all aging... So there.
Speed MIGHT kill you but breathing (if you do it long enough) definately will.

Also...

Research on bread indicates that:

1. More than 98 percent of convicted felons are bread users.

2. Fully HALF of all children who grow up in bread-consuming households score below average on standardized tests.

3. In the 18th century, when virtually all bread was baked in the home, the average life expectancy was less than 50 years; infant mortality rates were unacceptably high; many women died in childbirth; and diseases such as typhoid, yellow fever, and influenza ravaged whole nations.

4. More than 90 percent of violent crimes are committed within 24 hours of eating bread.

5. Bread is made from a substance called "dough." It has been proven that as little as one pound of dough can be used to suffocate a mouse. The average American eats more bread than that in one month!

6. Primitive tribal societies that have no bread exhibit a low incidence of cancer, Alzheimer's, Parkinson's disease, and osteoporosis.

7. Bread has been proven to be addictive. Subjects deprived of bread and given only water to eat begged for bread after as little as two days.

8. Bread is often a "gateway" food item, leading the user to "harder" items such as butter, jelly, peanut butter, and even cold cuts.

9. Bread has been proven to absorb water. Since the human body is more than 90 percent water, it follows that eating bread could lead to your body being taken over by this absorptive food product, turning you into a soggy, gooey bread-pudding person.

10. Newborn babies can choke on bread.

11. Bread is baked at temperatures as high as 400 degrees Fahrenheit! That kind of heat can kill an adult in less than one minute.

12. Most American bread eaters are utterly unable to distinguish between significant scientific fact and meaningless statistical babbling.

In light of these frightening statistics, it has been proposed that the following bread restrictions be made:

1. No sale of bread to minors.

2. A nationwide "Just Say No To Toast" campaign, complete celebrity TV spots and bumper stickers.

3. A 300 percent federal tax on all bread to pay for all the societal ills we might associate with bread.

4. No animal or human images, nor any primary colors (which may appeal to children) may be used to promote bread usage.

5. The establishment of "Bread-free" zones around schools.

http://www.japantoday.com/category/national/view/boy-chokes-to-death-on-bread-during-school-lunch
http://www.majorwager.com/forums/canteen/24888-dough-woman-chokes-death-bread-eating-contest.html

Danger is everywhere. Did the Police pat the riders down for sandwichs?

Bren

1st December 2010, 07:03

Well I saw the item on TV last night and it disgusted me...really they took the creme de la creme of the asswipes on the road....BUT what must be remembered are these guys were speeding...the law is the law and as a whole we all seem to be oblivious of speed limits (myself included)....

Muppet

1st December 2010, 07:27

BoristheBiter

1st December 2010, 07:30

:shit: Yet another thread that has turned into a bun fight:yes: Soon it will time for the big hats again...

I thought this was the thread for big hats?

Swoop

1st December 2010, 07:31

What a utter faggotry of a program...
Just the quality of reporting expected from tvnz...:sick::facepalm:

Also good reminder to have the laser jammer i've just pre-ordered mounted on a rear of the bike since there are cocksuckers with laser guns hiding in camper vans on every corner...
Having a jammer on the rear of the bike wouldn't of helped any of those bikers approaching the campervan...

sinfull

1st December 2010, 07:36

Take it to the track ya old buggers! :sunny:

I did that just the other day, the pahiatua track ! :yes:
Cant be riding the same spot every day so varied it by going paekok hill, wainui hill, then back via the aka's yesterday !
You have to experience the Aka's on a 280 kg bike man lol that is a workout ! Especially at around knockoff time, with some young wippersnappers in cars in a damn hurry to get back to the hutt !

Crisis management

1st December 2010, 07:42

I want my fifteen minutes back, I read this thread in it's entirety looking for something actually about old bastards like me and there's only the usual keyboard thumping and mouse throttling noises of the mob protesting variously their innocence, the hypocrisy of the media / police and that it's "someone elses' fault"...:violin:...did I miss anything?

You're all bastards, at my age I can't afford to waste fifteen minutes, if I can remember where the bike is, I'm going for a ride at 35km/h to piss you lot off.

:bleh::bleh::bleh:

T.W.R

1st December 2010, 07:42

. Those tossers on the telly were bloody gang members all bar a few of them. At least the skinny bald guy with a goatee had the balls to just take his medicine saying that the bike was new to him and he wasn't used it, despite the patch on his back, he was the most 'professional'.

One of the lamest & oldest excuses in the book though :yes:

As for the twat on the blue Harley with his giggly mole :bash:

All excuses for their actions, even the guy with the Aprilia admitting his speedo wasn't working so was *just following the car* :facepalm:

:facepalm: Easy Rider the movie has a lot to answer for with all the wannabe bikies :facepalm:

A good demographic of the middle aged chumps :clap:

Do the crime & get caught, just pay up and get on with it instead of acting like spoilt brats because your pocket got hit :angry:

MSTRS

1st December 2010, 07:54

So CloseUp was to present an item about cops targetting born again bikers?

What I saw was an item about cops operating a speed trap, and it showed only those who were caught speeding. Where were the many more that were not speeding? And where were the car drivers of both types, too?
We can bleat on all we like about behaving and lifting our image in the eyes of the public, but with crap like that on CloseUp we haven't got a shit show in hell. Maybe 1 million people saw the item, and most of them will have simply had their opinion of bikers confirmed.
Not one of the bikers shown seemed remotely like a recent returnee. Notice how not one of them didn't fit the stereotype of big, bad biker? The patched one was the only one without the in-your-face attitude.
The speeding notwithstanding, at least they all appeared to be wearing appropriate gear....

shrub

1st December 2010, 07:54

Inoffensive and apologetic?

No, I still say most motorcyclists can't ride for shit, and refuse to consider the road they share with other road users as anything other than a playground to exercise their toys on.

You make some very good points, and on balance I completely agree with you (and though I'd never admit it, Katman).

However my argument is consistantly that ALL road users need to lift their game, and while motorcyclists are the low hanging fruit, therefore the easiest group for you and i to influence, other road users aren't exempt. I know that I am an ordinary rider, but 24 years since an off (minus about 10 years as a solo parent and no bike) suggests that I am sufficiently competent to keep myself safe and I do my best to reduce the odds of a crash whenever I ride with ATTGATT, a well maintained bike, defensive riding etc

I guess my problem with the "forget anyone else until we've tidied up our own backyard" argument is that I have already (pretty much) tidied up my back yard, so does that mean I have no right to demand car drivers lift their game until Johnny Powerranger learns to slow down on the Akaroa GP or Nigel Noob learns to countersteer? I generally ride alone or with a few good mates, so other rider's skill levels have little impact on me, but the skill level of car drivers has a HUGE impact on me because there are frequently thousands of the bastards around, so I want to see the biggest untreated risk to ME (other people) dealt with because I have taken ownership of my own risk.

And if Our Beloved Masters and their Noble Constabulary want to influence motorcyclists to lift their game, is having a sneaky little man in a campervan on the side of the road going to do that? Or will it merely be seen as revenue gathering, and another risk to be avoided?

Katman

1st December 2010, 08:08

I generally ride alone or with a few good mates, so other rider's skill levels have little impact on me,

Believe me, motorcyclist's apparent inability to avoid accidents is having a huge impact on us all - and only stands to get hugerer if we don't do something about it.

shrub

1st December 2010, 08:15

Believe me, motorcyclist's apparent inability to avoid accidents is having a huge impact on us all - and only stands to get hugerer if we don't do something about it.

Yeah, I accept that Johnny Powerranger carving up the cages and then slamming into a paddock does you and me no favours, but idiotic motorcyclists don't directly impact on my safety to the extent that idiotic car drivers do. Every day, whether in my car, on my bike or even my pushbike, I am surrounded by idiot car drivers who are completely out of their depth and largely incompetent, but very, very rarely find motorcyclists putting me at risk.

Banging on about motorcyclists needing to lift their skill doesn't make my journey any safer, but getting TPTB to look at ALL road users, including the majority car drivers, does.

Banditbandit

1st December 2010, 08:24

The piece was crap ... manufactured by journalists to create specific effects in the minds of Joe Average ....

Why are we even bothering to talk about it ?

Katman

1st December 2010, 08:36

The piece was crap ... manufactured by journalists to create specific effects in the minds of Joe Average ....

Why are we even bothering to talk about it ?

Because it's an indication of what we're up against.

T.W.R

1st December 2010, 09:02

The piece was crap ... manufactured by journalists to create specific effects in the minds of Joe Average ....

Why are we even bothering to talk about it ?

Because the more we moan about it and whine about the implications the powers that be impose on us the more scrutiny we come under, the actions of a few impact on the whole :yes:

James Deuce

1st December 2010, 09:04

The piece was crap ... manufactured by journalists to create specific effects in the minds of Joe Average ....

Why are we even bothering to talk about it ?

Not to create specific effects, to reinforce existing ones.

george formby

1st December 2010, 09:50

"Ride it like you stole it HEE HEE HEE" Very mature response to plod I must say :shutup:
Good editing too, make sure you gather up the real retards for your news item.

"We are not targetting motorcycles, we are just concentrating on them today" - what ever.

There is no disputing that older returned riders are involved in too many crashes, no wonder if they are all like the ones we saw tonight. Fancy bleating about getting a ticket for speeding for the camera. You did the crime, now pay the fine.

I missed it but sounds like what was presented was, er, skewed to get somebodys specific opinion across to the fact hungry nation. Not sure who I despise most, media or politicians. not sure who has the most power either.
The born again biker phenomenon had a big impact in the UK, had a personal impact on me too. A returning rider bought an original Fireblade, went for a run with a group of guys who had never been without a bike, failed to negotiate a corner & failed to return home. Just to big a gap between the riders ability, the bikes ability & how the rider perceived his ability.
Take it easy Grandad is a message well worth getting across to returning riders but not through the barrels of a media spin gun.

JMemonic

1st December 2010, 10:18

You are absolutely correct. You ARE mistaken.

You can ask for anything, including the officers birth certificate. You can even ask the officer to do 10 press ups. It's a question of what they HAVE to give you.

You are entitled to request documents pertaining to your case pursuant to the NZ Bill of Rights Act and the Privacy Act, but the right is not an immediate one. They have a "reasonable time" to comply, the courts normally think that 14 days is reasonable.

So there.

Question, if the courts think 14 days is reasonable then why is it that if someone is pulled over, failure to have you licence on ones person is considered an offence with a fine attached?

ducatilover

1st December 2010, 10:20

Question, if the courts think 14 days is reasonable then why is it that if someone is pulled over, failure to have you licence on ones person is considered an offence with a fine attached?

Because you may not be you you know? Only you will know.

JMemonic

1st December 2010, 10:44

Those tossers on the telly were bloody gang members all bar a few of them.

I watched it again online I am still trying to figure this part out, the only gang member was the bloke who admitted his mistake and had what appeared to be the most professional attitude. Can you let in on what ever I am missing that determines the majority were gang members.

JMemonic

1st December 2010, 10:53

Yeah, I accept that Johnny Powerranger carving up the cages and then slamming into a paddock does you and me no favours, but idiotic motorcyclists don't directly impact on my safety to the extent that idiotic car drivers do. Every day, whether in my car, on my bike or even my pushbike, I am surrounded by idiot car drivers who are completely out of their depth and largely incompetent, but very, very rarely find motorcyclists putting me at risk.

Banging on about motorcyclists needing to lift their skill doesn't make my journey any safer, but getting TPTB to look at ALL road users, including the majority car drivers, does.

Your point is totally valid but those here how keep banging on about all motorcycle accidents being motorcyclists fault wont agree.

The wife and I had a couple of close calls on our recent trip around the South Island with cars being in places they should not have been, regrettably the majority were not rental cars but appeared to be our home grown rubbish drivers.

Oh yeah one was a car that had fancy graphics on it with a slimline roof mounted indication apparatus who took a bend just a bit wild, yet had it been me with even my shoulder over the line I would potentially received an invitation to part with some of my hard earned money, all I saw was a mouthed "sorry"

I GS 1

1st December 2010, 10:59

I agree, I got a speeding ticket for doing 63 in a 50. I paid the ticket because I did it. Those tossers on the telly were bloody gang members all bar a few of them. At least the skinny bald guy with a goatee had the balls to just take his medicine saying that the bike was new to him and he wasn't used it, despite the patch on his back, he was the most 'professional'. I don't agree with targeting bikers when the crashes we are involved in, are to a certain degree caused by car drivers. Anyway if you aren't speeding you won't get a ticket will you?

Interesting - I have also just been fined for doing 63 in a 50 zone (wide road, no traffic, children playing etc.) could this be something to do with meeting "quotas" in the current "campaign" and could the current anti-speed "campaign" have something to do with stopping to check motorcyclists' registrations after many indicated that they were no longer intending to keep them up to date after the increase in ACC levies. I need to be convinced that it has anything to do with speed.

BoristheBiter

1st December 2010, 11:03

Interesting - I have also just been fined for doing 63 in a 50 zone (wide road, no traffic, children playing etc.) could this be something to do with meeting "quotas" in the current "campaign" and could the current anti-speed "campaign" have something to do with stopping to check motorcyclists' registrations after many indicated that they were no longer intending to keep them up to date after the increase in ACC levies. I need to be convinced that it has anything to do with speed.

you were doing 63 in a 50 and you ask was it the speed. are you just dumb or like to appear so?
if you were doing 50 in a 50 would you have got a ticket? No.
So therefore it has to be a speed thing.

Bald Eagle

1st December 2010, 11:13

Just watched this on line. This had the 'balance' I have come to expect from the New Zealand media. :facepalm:

Katman

1st December 2010, 11:16

Your point is totally valid but those here who keep banging on about all motorcycle accidents being motorcyclists fault wont agree.

And who would "those" be?

Maha

1st December 2010, 11:39

So were BRONZ or MAG approached or comment on this story? Do they have anything to say?

I didn't view it as a negative. If you get caught on your bike riding faster than the posted speed limit then sucks to be you. Harden up and pay the fine, you earned it.
But, on a personal note, please dont anyone lump me in with that clueless knob and his nanny-goat partner. All I could say to Close-up is, ''you got some right fuckwits there didn't ya''?
And I would say this as Mark ..... not as a member of MAG!
It is my personal view only.

Swoop

1st December 2010, 11:48

I missed it...
View here (http://tvnz.co.nz/close-up/baby-boomers-in-police-sights-3932421).

phill-k

1st December 2010, 12:42

I am very grateful that my helmet and gear completely disguise my identity, those guys bar the one that manned up were an embarrassment, I'm going to stop waving to other riders until I get over said embarrassment.:shit:

Maha

1st December 2010, 12:45

Without searching for it, can anyone remember the 2nd article on Close-up on Monday night?

Brian d marge

1st December 2010, 12:50

140 fair enough , but 119 ,, on that stretch of road , in those conditions

revenue gathering

Stephen

_STAIN_

1st December 2010, 13:06

would some kind person please put up link for those that missed this programe

yachtie10

1st December 2010, 13:06

would some kind person please put up link for those that missed this programe

post 127 has a link

Bald Eagle

1st December 2010, 13:09

So were BRONZ or MAG approached or comment on this story?

That would imply the producer wanted a piece of balanced reporting :facepalm: oops silly me.

Spearfish

1st December 2010, 13:12

So what, as a part of the biking community, do we do about the semi accurate public perception?

Pascal

1st December 2010, 13:25

Without searching for it, can anyone remember the 2nd article on Close-up on Monday night?

Had me thinking for a bit. The couple that is going for that massive diamond in the Michael Hill competition. Or were they the third story? I was busy getting the children hosed down in the garden before chasing them into bed so only focussed on the motorcycle piece.

Mudfart

1st December 2010, 13:42

I couldnt post this on the msn have your say page which shows the article, so here it is, i hope someone reads it, with the point being 1 bikers 18 more times die coz we dont have cage protection 2 cars kill us.
every morning i ride home at 6am and i meet cars on waerenga rd in nth waikato on corners. out of 100 cars on 100 corners, 99 of them are on MY side of the road.

Its sad to see the way motorcyclists are painted by the media. They think their readers will be infuriated by the comments that lean heavily towards the extremely negative. Motrcyclists are 18 times more likely to have a serious/ fatal crash. Well, motorcyclists dont have airbags, seatlbelts, infact very much at all between them and the road.
Maybe the media could obtain the information that tells us how the riders die, I bet a lot get run over by cars that follow too close. I also know that a lot of riders are killed by cars or trucks that cross the centreline, especially so when going around corners. Here in North Waikato, vehicles are famous for it, that, and only having one headlight. And if its dark, and the only working headlight is the passenger side headlight, "you're 18 times more likely to wipe out a bike, man"!

Smifffy

1st December 2010, 13:44

Lovely!

So is there a MAG view? Is there someone who may speak on behalf of the organisation, at the risk of possibly upsetting a proportion of the membership?

Or is this another typical NZ 'rule by committee & consensus" organisation that needs to thrash out every issue ad nauseum until the message is buried in PC doublespeak, and the issue has been forgotten?

I didn't view it as a negative. If you get caught on your bike riding faster than the posted speed limit then sucks to be you. Harden up and pay the fine, you earned it.
But, on a personal note, please dont anyone lump me in with that clueless knob and his nanny-goat partner. All I could say to Close-up is, ''you got some right fuckwits there didn't ya''?
And I would say this as Mark ..... not as a member of MAG!
It is my personal view only.

Maha

1st December 2010, 13:47

Had me thinking for a bit. The couple that is going for that massive diamond in the Michael Hill competition. Or were they the third story? I was busy getting the children hosed down in the garden before chasing them into bed so only focussed on the motorcycle piece.

I said Monday night, not last night.

Pascal

1st December 2010, 13:51

I said Monday night, not last night.

Ah, damnit. Busy week means it's only Tuesday in my head. So then no idea - I'd rather watch Shortland Street than Closeup. There's more real journamalism there.

Maha

1st December 2010, 13:54

Lovely!

So is there a MAG view? Is there someone who may speak on behalf of the organisation, at the risk of possibly upsetting a proportion of the membership?

Or is this another typical NZ 'rule by committee & consensus" organisation that needs to thrash out every issue ad nauseum until the message is buried in PC doublespeak, and the issue has been forgotten?

You probably want ask our president (Mom) ...she posted on here earlier. please feel free to search.
But to be perfectly honest, we have more pressing issues to talk about in the MAG forum than what was on TV last night.
I really dont see that there anything to chew over, some bikers got pinged, what of it?

Katman

1st December 2010, 14:03

Its sad to see the way motorcyclists are painted by the media. They think their readers will be infuriated by the comments that lean heavily towards the extremely negative. Motrcyclists are 18 times more likely to have a serious/ fatal crash. Well, motorcyclists dont have airbags, seatlbelts, infact very much at all between them and the road.
Maybe the media could obtain the information that tells us how the riders die, I bet a lot get run over by cars that follow too close. I also know that a lot of riders are killed by cars or trucks that cross the centreline, especially so when going around corners. Here in North Waikato, vehicles are famous for it, that, and only having one headlight. And if its dark, and the only working headlight is the passenger side headlight, "you're 18 times more likely to wipe out a bike, man"!

Maybe you'd like to go check the NZTA stats on serious/fatal motorcycle accidents. (Or maybe you wouldn't actually - they'd probably disappoint you).

bogan

1st December 2010, 14:06

Or is this another typical NZ 'rule by committee & consensus" organisation that needs to thrash out every issue ad nauseum until the message is buried in PC doublespeak, and the issue has been forgotten?

MAG is still only a few months old, so it isn't reasonable to expect all our commitee members are of the same opinion without consulting each other (would make for a boring organisation!). But i reckon we can get something done in days rather than weeks :yes:

Banditbandit

1st December 2010, 14:07

I watched it again online I am still trying to figure this part out, the only gang member was the bloke who admitted his mistake and had what appeared to be the most professional attitude. Can you let in on what ever I am missing that determines the majority were gang members.

I saw more than one of the riders stopped with colours ... various other signals between the group ...

I suppose, if we are going to talk about it, what got me most was that the patched members shown in the footage are unlikely to be the born-again bikers the police and media claim are being targetted ..

Banditbandit

1st December 2010, 14:09

140 fair enough , but 119 ,, on that stretch of road , in those conditions

revenue gathering

Stephen

So slightly breaking the law is OK ? But really breaking the law is not ? What about slightly breaking other laws .. such as .. oooo . Theft ? Murder ? Sorry officer, I only slightly killed him - so don't be revenue gathering from me today ...

bogan

1st December 2010, 14:09

Maybe you'd like to go check the NZTA stats on serious/fatal motorcycle accidents. (Or maybe you wouldn't actually - they'd probably disappoint you).

The opposite actually, he'd find out that the 18x is actually less than 4x, pity the numpties on close up didn't go to NZTA first.

Banditbandit

1st December 2010, 14:10

So what, as a part of the biking community, do we do about the semi accurate public perception?

Fuck 'em if they can't take a joke ..

BoristheBiter

1st December 2010, 14:20

george formby

1st December 2010, 15:19

Without searching for it, can anyone remember the 2nd article on Close-up on Monday night?

No. I leaped before i looked. soz

Katman

1st December 2010, 15:23

The opposite actually, he'd find out that the 18x is actually less than 4x, pity the numpties on close up didn't go to NZTA first.

I was actually talking about the 75% figure for the serious/fatal accidents that was attributable to the motorcyclist.

Maha

1st December 2010, 15:31

No. I leaped before i looked. soz

Point is, actually, what is the point? I have forgotten.....:corn:
Is it that the article showed several upset bikers?
or....is it that, the article showed more bikers not being stopped than were being stopped?
or even...god forebid, proved that there are bikers on the road that dont give a shit about how fast they are going at any one time?
...could the point be that possibly, and I think I have it now, that it showed those bastard cops picking on those poor unsuspecting lads out for a quiet cruise?

george formby

1st December 2010, 15:34

Fuck me if thats the state of driving down there no wonder there are so many deaths.
I would be taking another way home myself.
Or maybe buy a tank, lets see the fuckers cross the center line then.

Up here, off SH 1 & SH 10 we have a high percentage of middle of the road camper van tourists. Middle of the road meaning just that. Very twisty scenic roads. You really have to stack the odds in your favour when out during the peak season. Corner cutting is very average & I try to be in a position to see them coming & have a mutter in my helmet as I go by. It's just something I factor in like hitting gravel, melted tar or having a car pull out in front of me. Makes for a slow ride at times but I'm happier being able to pull up rather than have a :shit: moment.

Clean_up

1st December 2010, 15:38

I just wonder how effective the laser is when it is used through a tinted glass window, and if that is in fact not recommended by the manufacturers, and if it would hold up in court???

Kickaha

1st December 2010, 19:07

I was actually talking about the 75% figure for the serious/fatal accidents that was attributable to the motorcyclist.

Quiet you, we're not meant to mention that one

BoristheBiter

1st December 2010, 19:11

Quiet you, we're not meant to mention that one

i would have but he bet me to it.

spookytooth

1st December 2010, 19:27

i would have but he bet me to it.

how much did he bet ?

scumdog

1st December 2010, 19:45

What I saw was an item about cops operating a speed trap, and it showed only those who were caught speeding. Where were the many more that were not speeding? ...

But..but...but..THAT is one of the major whinges on KB "If I'm doing nothing wrong and a cop stops me I'll tell him to get fucked"...WTF do cops think they're doing pulling over bikers that weren't speeding or anything" etc etc.

The cop only pulled over those that were speeding if I got the drift of your comment?

(Oh, and was that good enough a bite for you?? )

scumdog

1st December 2010, 20:12

Just watched the video clip, judging by the excuses/comments it seemed like an average KB outing....:facepalm:

oldrider

1st December 2010, 20:13

Have a look at this video and see if you can spot the difference between Steve (the lawnmower rider) and the bikers pulled up by the cops in the Close-up program!

http://biggeekdaddy.com/humorpages/Misc/lawnmowerDUItaserarrest.html

They all looked the same to me actually, well they behaved the same anyway! :facepalm:

SPman

1st December 2010, 20:34

So slightly breaking the law is OK ? But really breaking the law is not ? What about slightly breaking other laws .. such as .. oooo . Theft ? Murder ? Sorry officer, I only slightly killed him - so don't be revenue gathering from me today ...
Some laws are basic to humanity, some are basic to the cohesiveness and efficient working of society, but many are overtly political in either passing or their pedantic enforcement!

PhantasmNZ

1st December 2010, 20:45

Lovely!

So is there a MAG view? Is there someone who may speak on behalf of the organisation, at the risk of possibly upsetting a proportion of the membership?

Or is this another typical NZ 'rule by committee & consensus" organisation that needs to thrash out every issue ad nauseum until the message is buried in PC doublespeak, and the issue has been forgotten?

MAG-NZ have officially responded to TVNZ over last night's show highlighting how in fact TVNZ, just like the government have picked the "easy target" for their less than fairly balanced piece of shoddy reporting.

We've also invited TVNZ to our oranges and coal ride this year (http://www.mag-nz.org/events/mag-nz-events) for a little bit of balance and perspective.

MAG-NZ members can read the full response on the members area of the MAG-NZ site

Luckylegs

1st December 2010, 23:27

...We've also invited TVNZ to our oranges and coal ride this year

I'm not generally too concerned with being pc, but... D'ya reckon deliverin Coal is in particularly good taste given the current going ons on the west coast ?

Bald Eagle

1st December 2010, 23:29

I'm not generally too concerned with being pc, but... D'ya reckon deliverin Coal is in particularly good taste given the current going ons on the west coast ?

To hell with being pc, we want to get a message out. If we 'offend' a few more people it will at least get the media coverage.
As they say the only thing worse than bad publicity, is no publicity.

Brian d marge

2nd December 2010, 04:05

So slightly breaking the law is OK ? But really breaking the law is not ? What about slightly breaking other laws .. such as .. oooo . Theft ? Murder ? Sorry officer, I only slightly killed him - so don't be revenue gathering from me today ...
The speed clocked by the point you just missed was well and truly about 119

IF the popo was interested IN saving lives as they said, try an accident black spot

or a bike meeting , outside the gate , not a loooooonnnnnggg stretch of road , with sod all cars on it ,,,OFF COURSE THE SPEED WILL CREEP UP

its the 80 /20 rule , 80 percent will drive to the prevailing conditions ,,,20 wont , so measure the 80 , the ping the 20

IF the law say I should inform that the person next door is an undesirable , and he is my buddy. That one law I wont be following

Common sense,, I would presume would prevail. ( unless you believe that 104 Km/h u are more deader than 100 ??? )

Sorry nice try but ,,

revenue gathering.... until I see clear evidence ( if u said poor driving , now we could talk ,,,)

Stephen

PrincessBandit

2nd December 2010, 05:28

IF the popo was interested IN saving lives as they said, try an accident black spot

or a bike meeting , outside the gate , not a loooooonnnnnggg stretch of road , with sod all cars on it ,,,OFF COURSE THE SPEED WILL CREEP UP

Stephen

So bad accidents and fatals never occur on looooooonnnggg stretches of road partly due to speed?
I see what you are trying to say, but given the number of roadside crosses I've seen on stretches of road or gentle bends which seem unlikely spots for such occurrences, any portion of road would be fair game.

Pixie

2nd December 2010, 06:15

Yepper, and we will win that battle. Of that I have absoltely NO DOUBT!

He had a reasonable atitude because he couldn't give a fuck.
I mean - who is seriously going to try to collect the fine at the club house?

Swoop

2nd December 2010, 07:39

( if u said poor driving , now we could talk ,,,)
What? The police concentrating on the poor standards of driving on our roads?

That's just crazy talk.

MSTRS

2nd December 2010, 07:51

The cop only pulled over those that were speeding if I got the drift of your comment?

That is what was shown in the item. The impression, at least, from the clip, was that other speeding vehicles were ignored. Seems wrong to me, that only motorcyclists were the target.
After all, speed is apparently the big evil. It shouldn't matter what sort of vehicle is doing it.

Luckylegs

2nd December 2010, 07:58

To hell with being pc, we want to get a message out. If we 'offend' a few more people it will at least get the media coverage.
As they say the only thing worse than bad publicity, is no publicity.

So, replace it with summat else and make a point of letting the media know (when they cover the event as Im sure they will) that youve done it. You might just get some positive publicity and or some respect from the public (maybe, I dunno, maybe thats naieve, but...).

...Maybe a shit in a handbag would be a more appropriate handout this year! :blink:

superman

2nd December 2010, 08:08

Interesting - I have also just been fined for doing 63 in a 50 zone (wide road, no traffic, children playing etc.) could this be something to do with meeting "quotas" in the current "campaign" and could the current anti-speed "campaign" have something to do with stopping to check motorcyclists' registrations after many indicated that they were no longer intending to keep them up to date after the increase in ACC levies. I need to be convinced that it has anything to do with speed.

Going 25% faster than the speed limit is kind of enough for them to justify it. I read somewhere that if the area you're in is quiet and safe etc you can go up to 11km/hr over the speed limit and you'll be fine. (taken from Police Website). What was your speedo saying though? It would have been approaching 70ish if you got done at 63 won't it?

MSTRS

2nd December 2010, 08:16

Policy is generally +10kph is let go. I say generally. Don't bet on it. Especially not when Paula Rose is having a long weekend...

T.W.R

2nd December 2010, 08:18

The speed clocked by the point you just missed was well and truly about 119

IF the popo was interested IN saving lives as they said, try an accident black spot

or a bike meeting , outside the gate , not a loooooonnnnnggg stretch of road , with sod all cars on it ,,,OFF COURSE THE SPEED WILL CREEP UP

its the 80 /20 rule , 80 percent will drive to the prevailing conditions ,,,20 wont , so measure the 80 , the ping the 20

IF the law say I should inform that the person next door is an undesirable , and he is my buddy. That one law I wont be following

Common sense,, I would presume would prevail. ( unless you believe that 104 Km/h u are more deader than 100 ??? )

Sorry nice try but ,,

revenue gathering.... until I see clear evidence ( if u said poor driving , now we could talk ,,,)

Stephen

The area involved in the footage was North Canterbury around the Waipara area which has a pretty bad reputation for accidents as it is :yes:

As for Looong pieces of road, one of the blackest pieces of road for accidents, speeding, and other mishaps is between ChCh & Timaru....it's only got a handful of corners in nearly 160kms of open road.....Why because most can't handle a straight piece of road, chumps moan about that piece of road in particular but it's one place you have to keep your wits about you & keep on the alert :yes:

As for the general tone of the thread, as long it keeps the US & THEM attitude we're always going to be on the loosing side of the ledger :facepalm:

oldrider

2nd December 2010, 08:19

He had a reasonable atitude because he couldn't give a fuck.
I mean - who is seriously going to try to collect the fine at the club house?

True! Totally agree! :yes:

There is a lot of reference about "common sense" on KB but there as many versions of that as there are members! :facepalm:

Spearfish

2nd December 2010, 08:30

The area involved in the footage was North Canterbury around the Waipara area which has a pretty bad reputation for accidents as it is :yes:

As for Looong pieces of road, one of the blackest pieces of road for accidents, speeding, and other mishaps is between ChCh & Timaru....it's only got a handful of corners in nearly 160kms of open road.....Why because most can't handle a straight piece of road, chumps moan about that piece of road in particular but it's one place you have to keep your wits about you & keep on the alert :yes:

As for the general tone of the thread, as long it keeps the US & THEM attitude we're always going to be on the loosing side of the ledger :facepalm:

Agree, as well as the "us and them" is the perpetual victim of circumstance.

MSTRS

2nd December 2010, 08:33

yachtie10

2nd December 2010, 08:43

I am not alone in thinking that this sort of road is 'dangerous' simply because it's boring at 100kph. Boredom = inattention = :shit:

Eggzackery :yes:

T.W.R

2nd December 2010, 08:55

I am not alone in thinking that this sort of road is 'dangerous' simply because it's boring at 100kph. Boredom = inattention = :shit:

Boredom is a sign of lacking by the person behind the bars/wheel :yes: There isn't one piece of road in NZ that is that long that inattention should set in :blink: even in the likes aussie with what are some ultra long dead straight pieces of road they don't have the same amount of accidents that occur here on our humble wee pieces of tarseal :facepalm:

yachtie10

2nd December 2010, 08:59

Boredom is a sign of lacking by the person behind the bars/wheel :yes: There isn't one piece of road in NZ that is that long that inattention should set in :blink: even in the likes aussie with what are some ultra long dead straight pieces of road they don't have the same amount of accidents that occur here on our humble wee pieces of tarseal :facepalm:

There are many intelligent people who would disagree
Personally I think inattention is common and the main cause of accidents in general
I find inattention happen more often in the car but can creep in on the bike on boring roads

Katman

2nd December 2010, 09:02

Personally I think inattention is common and the main cause of accidents in general
I find inattention happen more often in the car but can creep in on the bike on boring roads

That's hardly the fault of our roads or of our laws governing our roads.

It is solely the fault of the inattentive person.

yachtie10

2nd December 2010, 09:16

That's hardly the fault of our roads or of our laws governing our roads.

It is solely the fault of the inattentive person.

Didnt say it was anyones fault
but ignoring it and saying its purely the drivers fault is ignorant and doesnt help anyone.

"When the human mind is not being occupied by the current task, then it will automatically find something else to occupy it."

Katman

2nd December 2010, 09:20

Didnt say it was anyones fault
but ignoring it and saying its purely the drivers fault is ignorant and doesnt help anyone.

It does help us actually.

It shows us exactly were the improvement should be made - ourselves.

MSTRS

2nd December 2010, 09:26

That's hardly the fault of our roads or of our laws governing our roads.

It is solely the fault of the inattentive person.

Arguably, you are right.
But take SH5, for instance...about 130kms end to end. 100kph limit on all of it. From HB end, smooth flowing corners, for the most part, over about 100kms. Very enjoyable and safe at 100kph. I often don't even need to brake, even at the Tarawera. And then some 30kms across the plains with, what, 4 corners. Sleepy-time...

James Deuce

2nd December 2010, 09:26

Didnt say it was anyones fault
but ignoring it and saying its purely the drivers fault is ignorant and doesnt help anyone.

"When the human mind is not being occupied by the current task, then it will automatically find something else to occupy it."

I'm not following that at all. Are you saying it isn't your fault that you're inattentive?

Inattention isn't an excuse it's an admission of incompetence on a par with SMIDSY.

shrub

2nd December 2010, 11:05

As for Looong pieces of road, one of the blackest pieces of road for accidents, speeding, and other mishaps is between ChCh & Timaru....it's only got a handful of corners in nearly 160kms of open road.....Why because most can't handle a straight piece of road, chumps moan about that piece of road in particular but it's one place you have to keep your wits about you & keep on the alert :yes:

As for the general tone of the thread, as long it keeps the US & THEM attitude we're always going to be on the loosing side of the ledger :facepalm:

I loathe that piece of road. It's heavily policed, so it's very expensive to travel over the magic 111 kmh which means you need to grind out the whole 160 kms at 100 kmh. It also scares me because people fall asleep on it so I watch every car coming towards me like a hawk and if they drift one way or the other even the slightest bit I'm looking for an escape route.

I saw a guy driving a car once with a book on his steering wheel on that road.

shrub

2nd December 2010, 11:33

There are many intelligent people who would disagree
Personally I think inattention is common and the main cause of accidents in general
I find inattention happen more often in the car but can creep in on the bike on boring roads

Driver inattention is one of the biggest single causes of crashes and In New Zealand, Police ascribed 'poor observation' as a cause of nearly half the crashes in 2008. Shame that this is largely ignored in favour of an all-out attack on speeding.

yachtie10

2nd December 2010, 11:55

I'm not following that at all. Are you saying it isn't your fault that you're inattentive?

Inattention isn't an excuse it's an admission of incompetence on a par with SMIDSY.

I didnt say it wasnt my fault
but i am saying EVERYONE suffers from inattention to some degree or another and to ignore it is ignorant.

What I can also say is I enjoy riding a motorcycle partly because it involves me and the only time I find myself falling into innatentive ways is when on a fairly straight piece of road for a long periods. (do you think there might be a connection?)

I agree its on a par with smidsy as inattention is probably the main reason for SMIDSY

yachtie10

2nd December 2010, 12:00

maybe I havnt explained myself well

I refer to Inattention as when the mind thinks of other things when it is not being occupied

I am not specifically referring to being distracted by other things other than driving

"When the human mind is not being occupied by the current task, then it will automatically find something else to occupy it."

T.W.R

2nd December 2010, 12:16

I loathe that piece of road. It's heavily policed, so it's very expensive to travel over the magic 111 kmh which means you need to grind out the whole 160 kms at 100 kmh. It also scares me because people fall asleep on it so I watch every car coming towards me like a hawk and if they drift one way or the other even the slightest bit I'm looking for an escape route.

I saw a guy driving a car once with a book on his steering wheel on that road.

What's to loathe about the road??? it's not the road it's the users to loathe :yes:
Living bang in the guts of it for nearly 20yrs, travelled it every day, whether for work or any other reason, even whilst working driving heavy machinery (max speed 40km/h) sometimes with multiple items rigged up behind I saw stupidity from road users that you wouldn't believe :yes:

As for heavily policed :facepalm: it's no more heavily policed than any other road in the district :yes: and the popo aren't that bright to be honest because they use the same camera vehicles on a rotation and they're always in the same places and the HP patrols have dedicated locations that they stick to, so it isn't rocket science to learn their routine :shutup:

As for people falling asleep at the wheel along that piece of road, have seen it all :yes: Long haul trucks, short haul trucks, cars, & motorcycles :shit: all driver/rider fault not the road....lack of discipline & respect for other road users.

And remember THIS (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/94084-When-will-friggin-cages-bloody-learn!) incident :angry: that's when it got up close and personal!

There isn't once instance on that particular piece of road or any like it that it's the road's fault (remember it's an inanimate object). And for the likes of people who think travelling the inland route is a better option, they've got more chance of getting cleaned up by cockies pulling out of farm gateways, stray stock or other muppets running stop signs & giveway intersections

shrub

2nd December 2010, 12:44

What's to loathe about the road??? it's not the road it's the users to loathe.

And remember THIS (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/94084-When-will-friggin-cages-bloody-learn!) incident :angry: that's when it got up close and personal!

There isn't once instance on that particular piece of road or any like it that it's the road's fault (remember it's an inanimate object). And for the likes of people who think travelling the inland route is a better option, they've got more chance of getting cleaned up by cockies pulling out of farm gateways, stray stock or other muppets running stop signs & giveway intersections

Very true. A long straight road takes as much concentration as a tight windy road because you're travelling at the same speed (30m per second), and I remember THAT incident well.

It comes down to road user skill and recognising that different roads require different techniques and offer different challenges. The challenge a long straight road offers is maintaining focus and concentration and STAYING AWAKE - I have stopped on the side of the road many times and had a snooze. Where a straight road offers a challenge is boredom, and I'd rather face the challenge of riding on a tight, winding gravel road in the wet than a boring road.

Katman

2nd December 2010, 12:55

It comes down to road user skill and recognising that different roads require different techniques and offer different challenges. The challenge a long straight road offers is maintaining focus and concentration and STAYING AWAKE - I have stopped on the side of the road many times and had a snooze. Where a straight road offers a challenge is boredom, and I'd rather face the challenge of riding on a tight, winding gravel road in the wet than a boring road.

It comes down to ensuring that your eyes are always moving.

Even though the picture they are seeing may not change, as long as they are moving, the mind is working.

T.W.R

2nd December 2010, 12:58

Where a straight road offers a challenge is boredom, and I'd rather face the challenge of riding on a tight, winding gravel road in the wet than a boring road.

:nono: A boring road is only a boring road if you make it so. :facepalm: realistically there shouldn't be any thing such as a boring road as it boils down to the fact you're operating a vehicle at speed, monitoring multiple things at once so HOW can that be boring?? Again it isn't the road it's the person travelling it :yes:

Any nut can travel fast in a straight line but it takes discipline & concentration to travel in a straight line at a constant speed

shrub

2nd December 2010, 12:58

It comes down to ensuring that your eyes are always moving.

Even though the picture they are seeing may not change, as long as they are moving, the mind is working.

Sadly most people don't know that, and a long straight road lulls them into a false sense of security which means they feel safe to play with the stereo, stare at the scenery or eat that tasty pie they picked up.

As I keep coming back to, it's the skill (or lack of skill) of road users that is the problem.

shrub

2nd December 2010, 12:59

Any nut can travel fast in a straight line but it takes discipline & concentration to travel in a straight line at a constant speed

Or cruise control.

Banditbandit

2nd December 2010, 13:00

BoristheBiter

2nd December 2010, 13:00

:nono: A boring road is only a boring road if you make it so. :facepalm: realistically there shouldn't be any thing such as a boring road as it boils down to the fact you're operating a vehicle at speed, monitoring multiple things at once so HOW can that be boring?? Again it isn't the road it's the person travelling it :yes:

Any nut can travel fast in a straight line but it takes discipline & concentration to travel in a straight line at a constant speed

Unless you have cruise control.

T.W.R

2nd December 2010, 13:01

Or cruise control.

Unless you have cruise control.

:facepalm: cruise control is a novelty item for fuck knuckles

T.W.R

2nd December 2010, 13:04

When I lived in ChCh it was a commonm weekend thing to try to get to Timaru in 1 hour ... if that's still the case, then that's one reason why the road is dangerous ...

(It might not be so hard now .. but back in the days, try doing it on a Triumph 650 ...

People still think it's a race track/drag strip sometimes :yes:
been guilty of it myself many years ago....20mins from the Railway station/Hoyts8 on Moorhouse Ave to ordering a beer in the Chertsey pub :innocent: 2up on a XS750 :facepalm:

MSTRS

2nd December 2010, 13:05

:facepalm: cruise control is a novelty item for fuck knuckles

Or a handy tool that allows you to concentrate on other things.
Like reading, for instance...

BoristheBiter

2nd December 2010, 13:06

:facepalm: cruise control is a novelty item for fuck knuckles

So it doesn't take discipline & concentration to travel in a straight line at a constant speed then?

T.W.R

2nd December 2010, 13:08

So it doesn't take discipline & concentration to travel in a straight line at a constant speed then?

ignorance pushes the button

BoristheBiter

2nd December 2010, 13:11

ignorance pushes the button

So now you have to be disciplined, concentrate and be ignorant to travel in a straight line at a constant speed.

shrub

2nd December 2010, 13:18

People still think it's a race track/drag strip sometimes :yes:
been guilty of it myself many years ago....20mins from the Railway station/Hoyts8 on Moorhouse Ave to ordering a beer in the Chertsey pub :innocent: 2up on a XS750 :facepalm:

That must have been one hell of a quick XS750.

shrub

2nd December 2010, 13:19

Or a handy tool that allows you to concentrate on other things.
Like reading, for instance...

Or having a quick nap

T.W.R

2nd December 2010, 13:22

So now you have to be disciplined, concentrate and be ignorant to travel in a straight line at a constant speed.

:facepalm: just arrogant enough to let a machine do the thinking for you :blink:

T.W.R

2nd December 2010, 13:31

That must have been one hell of a quick XS750.

why?? 63kms isn't that far :blink: and it was a hairy arsed 19yr olds total disregard for all, apart from getting from one place to another ASAP. The bike itself was quite quick for what it was, even quicker than the 850 I had after it :yes:

shrub

2nd December 2010, 13:38

why?? 63kms isn't that far

63 kms in 20 minutes is an average of 189 kmh. That is fucking fast for a trip like that. I heard the 750 was a quicker bike.

BoristheBiter

2nd December 2010, 13:53

:facepalm: just arrogant enough to let a machine do the thinking for you :blink:

Or not so arrogant to to know the machine can do it better.

shrub

2nd December 2010, 14:39

:facepalm: just arrogant enough to let a machine do the thinking for you :blink:

Me, I prefer to let the liquor do the thinking http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-hIpizTnOg

Brian d marge

2nd December 2010, 14:39

So bad accidents and fatals never occur on looooooonnnggg stretches of road partly due to speed?
I see what you are trying to say, but given the number of roadside crosses I've seen on stretches of road or gentle bends which seem unlikely spots for such occurrences, any portion of road would be fair game.

Maybe someone fell asleep and crossed the centre line ...or overtook at an odd time

Targeting speed in such a draconian manner isnt educating is revenue gathering

now if they replaced the fine with a compulsory training course ..... now i would be in favor ,,but till then

Im throwing my tea in the Harbor

Stephen

BoristheBiter

2nd December 2010, 14:42

Maybe someone fell asleep and crossed the centre line ...or overtook at an odd time

Targeting speed in such a draconian manner isnt educating is revenue gathering

now if they replaced the fine with a compulsory training course ..... now i would be in favor ,,but till then

Im throwing my tea in the Harbor

Stephen

I think you would be the only one as most on here see nothing wrong with speeding.

MSTRS

2nd December 2010, 15:34

People speed all the time and don't come to grief. People stay within the speed limit all the time and do come to grief.
Not defending speeding, but it is inattention that is the big problem.

Ocean1

2nd December 2010, 16:19

Inattention isn't an excuse it's an admission of incompetence on a par with SMIDSY.

Incompetence is relative. Nobody is absolutely competent to manage a vehicle and be perfectly safe. You know full well cognitive functions are hugely complicated, very few people ever improve their performance beyond the natural "tune" because most of 'em don't know how. Until you teach people how to learn you have no reason to decry their ignorance.

In fact, if you're worried about the road toll then the single most effective response would be just that: unteach them how to look and learn them how to see. Motor skills mean little if you can't see into the future just a tad.

I'm not aware of any service available to anyone off the street that might make much difference to the national tendency to ADHD. You?

scumdog

2nd December 2010, 16:40

Driver inattention is one of the biggest single causes of crashes and In New Zealand, Police ascribed 'poor observation' as a cause of nearly half the crashes in 2008. Shame that this is largely ignored in favour of an all-out attack on speeding.

Yeah, I'm always ignoring the 'inattentionadar' as I drive down the road, the radar is more fun to use...:whistle::rolleyes:

Brian d marge

2nd December 2010, 17:49

Mentioned it before , 80 /20 rule , MOST people will settle at a speed which is about right for the conditions , 20 % will fall outside of that , ( think this was done in Canada , not sure though )

if most of the traffic is around 110 then the law doesn't need to be enforced , the 20 % on the other hand are Rodney's with out functioning speedos .....

Stephen

Brian d marge

2nd December 2010, 17:53

I think you would be the only one as most on here see nothing wrong with speeding.

Correct use of speed Yes . incorrect use of speed no...... and remember folks Speed kills ,,,government said so , must be true

Stephen

James Deuce

2nd December 2010, 18:00

I'm not aware of any service available to anyone off the street that might make much difference to the national tendency to ADHD. You?

I hear what you are saying.

it's why NZ drivers consistently rate themselves as above average drivers.

The first step is self awareness and despite most Kiwis seemingly laid back attitude most of them have egos that preclude self-critique and improvement.

Edbear

2nd December 2010, 18:09

I hear what you are saying.

it's why NZ drivers consistently rate themselves as above average drivers.

The first step is self awareness and despite most Kiwis seemingly laid back attitude most of them have egos that preclude self-critique and improvement.

Show me an incompetent driver/rider who knows he/she is incompetent and I'll show you a passenger. People simply don't know they can't drive!

PrincessBandit

2nd December 2010, 18:09

It comes down to ensuring that your eyes are always moving.

Even though the picture they are seeing may not change, as long as they are moving, the mind is working.

I remember being told years and years ago that one way to help combat droopy eyelids (or boredom -/- inattention) is to chew. Again, the idea seems to be that some sort of facial movement seems to counteract the "nodding off".

Works for me, I have to say, although the gum has to be fresh!! ("does your chewing gum lose it's flavour on the bedpost overnight...." - anyone remember that old song??)

varminter

2nd December 2010, 19:23

Works for me, I have to say, although the gum has to be fresh!! ("does your chewing gum lose it's flavour on the bedpost overnight...." - anyone remember that old song??)[/QUOTE]

Lonnie Donnegan, ooops, what a givaway:facepalm:

James Deuce

2nd December 2010, 19:50

Show me an incompetent driver/rider who knows he/she is incompetent and I'll show you a passenger. People simply don't know they can't drive!

Hello! I love the train. The bus not so much. It's either slightly early or massively late.

Edbear

2nd December 2010, 19:58

Hello! I love the train. The bus not so much. It's either slightly early or massively late.

I can't bling you again so soon! :innocent:

SPman

2nd December 2010, 20:10

When I lived in ChCh it was a commonm weekend thing to try to get to Timaru in 1 hour ... if that's still the case, then that's one reason why the road is dangerous ...

(It might not be so hard now .. but back in the days, try doing it on a Triumph 650 ...
Yeah, but at least you were concentrating on the job at hand! The old man used to do Wellington to New Plymouth in 4 hrs flat on a 500 Ariel before the war - less traffic but worse roads, including the old Ngaraunga gorge.
Lack of concentration is not usually an issue, in those circumstances!

slofox

3rd December 2010, 17:35

Well, hell. Let's face it. All these "aging" riders who ride like loonies are gunna cost the country a fortune to keep alive once they get past riding or anything else. So we ought to be encouraging them to really get into it and kill themselves off as soon as possible. That way everybody left is financially better off...yes?

phiretrojan

3rd December 2010, 19:20

Just watched it, I'm with the police here, you speed you get caught, why bullshit your way out, its not going to work, you can request a copy of the laser gun image cause it saves a copy, enough said, use the racetrack.....

btw if anyone havn't seen this here you go .... new give way rule, motorcyclist rules.... thinking it was going to be in deep about it, its not really

http://tvnz.co.nz/breakfast-news/new-rules-motorcyclists-improve-safety-5-12-video-3809457

MSTRS

4th December 2010, 07:58

Alan Kirk is a complete prat. He says "Some of the Harley range will be able to be ridden" WTF? Does Harley make a bike, available here, of 660cc or less? I don't think so.

scumdog

4th December 2010, 08:08

Alan Kirk is a complete prat. He says "Some of the Harley range will be able to be ridden" WTF? Does Harley make a bike, available here, of 660cc or less? I don't think so.

Can't be naffed checking - but is it not a HP to weight ratio that decides if a bike is suitable?

Maybe a 883 Sporty fits in the range of suitable bikes??

Or have I got it wrong again???:blink:

phiretrojan

4th December 2010, 08:15

Alan Kirk is a complete prat. He says "Some of the Harley range will be able to be ridden" WTF? Does Harley make a bike, available here, of 660cc or less? I don't think so.

Yea, i was like WTF, and when he quoted "cause 125cc can hit up to 200k' umm doesn't all the 250cc and high do those speeds as well?

if i got a new bike it would be a pick from Yamaha FZ6R, Kawasaki ER-6n,L ( Ducati Monster 600 <-- ooo baby dual exhaust two bros!) ..........(still on learners, by time i get my full this use LAMS system out why worry about it)

MSTRS

4th December 2010, 08:19

Can't be naffed checking - but is it not a HP to weight ratio that decides if a bike is suitable?

Maybe a 883 Sporty fits in the range of suitable bikes??

Or have I got it wrong again???:blink:883 prolly does, but the cut off is 660cc

Yea, i was like WTF, and when he quoted "cause 125cc can hit up to 200k' umm doesn't all the 250cc and high do those speeds as well?

if i got a new bike it would be a pick from Yamaha FZ6R Kawasaki ER-6nL Ducati Monster 600 <-- ooo baby dual exhaust two bros! ..........(still on learners, by time i get my full this use LAMS system out why worry about it)

He referred to 150cc 2 strokes. I doubt that any RG or KR150 can top 180kph.

MarkH

4th December 2010, 08:39

I just checked that close up article online (I never watch broadcast TV) and all I could think was "what a load of shit!". Biased reporting and lazy policing - that's pretty fuckin' sad.

Last year 43 motorcyclists died and this year 45 so far, so the police start pinging speeders on a straight piece of road. So, was that how the 88 motorcyclists died then? :scratch: Were they killed by exceeding 110kph in a 100 zone on a straight road? :scratch: Is that why the police were picking on the straight road speeder - because that is how the 88 motorcyclists killed in '09 & '10 on the road died? :scratch: And pulling them over and ticketing them - that is how we will lower the road toll? :scratch:

The police were there doing what they were doing and their only goal was to reduce the carnage on our roads? :facepalm: REALLY? The cop said that and I just shook my head in disbelief! :crazy: It must be a case of cognitive dissonance if that deluded copper really thought that he was doing ANYTHING to reduce the deaths of motorcyclists on NZ roads!

It would be good if something were done to reduce accidents, but nothing in that Close Up report showed me that the police were doing anything more than collecting revenue and pissing off motorcyclists. 119kph on a straight road isn't dangerous and I'm willing to bet that wasn't the cause of any deaths. I've exceeded that speed and I didn't die. How about mandatory attendance of a 1-day riding course as a penalty for 119kph instead of the fine & demerits? No? I guess improving the riding ability is less important than collecting a fine in the war against the road toll. The police seem to work REALLY hard to avoid doing anything constructive for the public they serve. :facepalm:

MSTRS

4th December 2010, 08:56

shrub

4th December 2010, 09:46

What these cops say (and do), is what they superiors tell them. It is 'official policy' that speed kills and must be stamped out (and let's get some coin in while we do it).
The stupid thing is that if the braids decided (from the stats) that white cars were over-represented in accident/deaths, and told the troops to deal with it, then the chorus would change...

I was at a BBQ with a cop last night, and he told me that while the management deny quotas the cops on the beat are expected to have one 'contact' every hour, and that will normally be issuing a ticket. Speeding is the easiest ticket to write and least likely to be contested and result in extra work for the cop, so that's what they focus on.

ynot slow

4th December 2010, 09:46

My take on road safety if the polies care is not ticketing every road user(from truckies to bikers)for speeding,but maybe a gently does it view.

Say you get caught at 115km or so on a straight(they're dangerous them straight roads eh)road,instead of a ticket,maybe just maybe the speeder would take heed and slow if the officer said "I'll give you a warning to slow down,but if you get caught today afterwards you'll be ticketed" or similar,for me it would work,knowing the 20 points is not going on license and fine/invoice.

And what really pisses me off is when you're told "you have 28 days to pat",ffs who does that,I wait till last minute after getting computer ticket,usually 56 days or so(can save for it lol).

MarkH

4th December 2010, 11:26

Here's something interesting:

Watching Emergency Bikers 104:
A biker had crashed on a corner (brand new K1300 he was test riding), but wasn't hurt. He got charged with careless driving but instead of a penalty he gets a chance to do a bike safe course.

From the thread I started here: http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/131716-UK-TV-Show-Emergency-Bikers

So it seems in the UK that the police do have an alternative to punishing motorists, why am I too cynical to think that the police would ever do the same thing here? I am not talking about the front line officers, of course - they only do their job, they don't set the policies.

The police here keep talking about doing what they can to lower the road toll and reduce accidents, but nothing they do is very effective at achieving that goal. Every day I see drivers failing to understand simple road rules and showing a lack of courtesy & consideration for fellow motorists and I have yet to see any evidence that the NZ police do ANYTHING to change that. :angry:

MSTRS

4th December 2010, 12:17

To be fair, a cop has to actually witness such behaviour. And, miracle of miracles, when a (marked) cop is about, drivers suddenly seem to know the rules...

On the other hand, I've seen plenty of bullshit at roundabouts, with a cop present, and no reaction from said cop. Mind you, they are not always exemplary drivers themselves - cutting across lanes, not indicating.

Ocean1

4th December 2010, 12:25

To be fair...

Um.

Why?

scumdog

4th December 2010, 12:55

To be fair, a cop has to actually witness such behaviour. And, miracle of miracles, when a (marked) cop is about, drivers suddenly seem to know the rules...
.

BINGO!

Hence why in my opinion MORE muftis targetting idiot drivers sjould be out there - it might get a few who 'drive to the conditions' (i.e. onlydrive as they should when a cop car is nearby)

shrub

4th December 2010, 13:15

in the same way many prefer smaller government (usually the ones who like to have more laws passed).

I am of the opinion that the average car driver and motorcycle rider has an inherant desire NOT to have a crash because crashing almost always costs a shitload of money - money that could be far better spent on beer - and frequently results in significant degrees of pain and potentially a lifetime in a wheelchair, and every now and again results in becoming dead. I don't know anyone that would be happy about any of the above scenarios, and would go as far as to say everyone I know would go to some trouble to avoid them.

I think the answer comes down to education. If pepple knew just how dangerous their behaviour was, and what the odds of them experiencing bad stuff were, they would avoid them in the same way I don't know anyone that would inject heroine or smoke P.

There will always be a small percentage of people who choose to do really stupid shit like drive drunk, cut blind corners or smoke P, and they will do it regardless of the penalties because they either don't care or don't think they'll get caught/suffer the consequences. Nothing will stop them, so why waste massive resources on the people who are quite keen to stay alive when it would be easier to educate them.

The cynic in me says TPTB know this, but education costs money when enforcement earns money.

MSTRS

4th December 2010, 13:23

BINGO!

Hence why in my opinion MORE muftis targetting idiot drivers sjould be out there - it might get a few who 'drive to the conditions' (i.e. onlydrive as they should when a cop car is nearby)
Hey! Settle down. That would mean us 'honest traffic criminals' would get caught more...Not what's wanted at all.

The cynic in me says TPTB know this, but education costs money when enforcement earns money.
Ya think....?

Dare

4th December 2010, 13:26

On the other hand, I've seen plenty of bullshit at roundabouts, with a cop present, and no reaction from said cop. Mind you, they are not always exemplary drivers themselves - cutting across lanes, not indicating.
I watched in disbelief as a cop pulled up to an old honda accord and tailgated from around 3m away at 80kmh.. I mean it was in a 100k zone but still.

So it seems in the UK that the police do have an alternative to punishing motorists, why am I too cynical to think that the police would ever do the same thing here?
Funnily enough in the UK and Europe there has been a riding culture that hasn't been sidelined by policy makers. Personally I think the knee-jerk reaction to media demonizing is somewhat reduced in countries where the politicians/diplomats aren't more concerned with getting the right people at their dinner parties (and other big fish/small pond maneuvering) than what policies they are going to enforce in the morning. That said the standard of driving (outside Italy at least) is generally higher than it is here.

Say you get caught at 115km or so on a straight(they're dangerous them straight roads eh)road,instead of a ticket,maybe just maybe the speeder would take heed and slow if the officer said "I'll give you a warning to slow down,but if you get caught today afterwards you'll be ticketed" or similar,for me it would work,knowing the 20 points is not going on license and fine/invoice.
I've had far more admonishments than tickets, contrary to popular belief if you don't just get angry more often than not the police actually use the pink goo between their ears. I even got told "your rego is out by 3 days but if you run down to the post shop and come back to see me I'll make sure this ticket never get's into the system" and he kept his word. Sure there's the odd wanker but as the show proved they have to deal with far more abusive people in their job than we ever have to deal with in uniform.

I was at a BBQ with a cop last night, and he told me that while the management deny quotas the cops on the beat are expected to have one 'contact' every hour, and that will normally be issuing a ticket. Speeding is the easiest ticket to write and least likely to be contested and result in extra work for the cop, so that's what they focus on.
When you are a frontline cop with a hammer everything begins to look like a nail. Maybe if 'management' could be persuaded that mandatory safety courses with a cut going to the police were more lucrative/effective than a piece of paper and a halfhearted admonishment (yes I know how fast I was going, sir) things would be different.

Given all the hassle with Wikileaks lately I wonder what would happen if all that internal paperwork (ACC stats, management memos, etc) were to become accidentally public..

It would be nice if the people up high stopped trying to run public services like private companies, as if there aren't a million different micro taxes digging into our pockets anyway. Stop it with the hyper-capitalism this isn't the goddamn USA (although at least they aren't quite so one track with the "it's for your own safety" argument).

Dare

4th December 2010, 13:29

Just had an odd thought. Imagine if bikes in the show room were plastered with stickers of people mangled up in crashes much like ciggies get sold with photos of mouth cancer.

I wonder if it would change anything.

Katman

4th December 2010, 13:30

There will always be a small percentage of people who choose to do really stupid shit like drive drunk, cut blind corners or smoke P, and they will do it regardless of the penalties because they either don't care or don't think they'll get caught/suffer the consequences. Nothing will stop them, so why waste massive resources on the people who are quite keen to stay alive when it would be easier to educate them.

I think we seriously need to stop looking at all dead motorcyclists as some sort of fallen heroes.

The sooner we adopt the belief that if you have an accident while riding like a cock, you should be called a cock. If you die from your accident while riding like a cock, and even worse, if you take someone elses life while riding like a cock, you should expect to be remembered as a cock.

It may seem a bizarre notion but I seriously believe there are motorcyclists out there who think that regardless of the manner of their passing they will at least have a glowing epitaph on Kiwibiker.

Dare

4th December 2010, 13:34

It may seem a bizarre notion but I seriously believe there are motorcyclists out there who think that regardless of the manner of their passing they will at least have a glowing epitaph on Kiwibiker.

In your esteemed opinion what would happen to public attitude if there were no fatalities on bikes in an entire year? I suspect it wouldn't even make the front page.
No one likes good news.

Katman

4th December 2010, 13:46

In your esteemed opinion what would happen to public attitude if there were no fatalities on bikes in an entire year? I suspect it wouldn't even make the front page.
No one likes good news.

It wouldn't really matter if it didn't make the front page.

At least we'd have a rock solid figure to batter ACC to death with.

rastuscat

4th December 2010, 14:01

Driver inattention is one of the biggest single causes of crashes and In New Zealand, Police ascribed 'poor observation' as a cause of nearly half the crashes in 2008. Shame that this is largely ignored in favour of an all-out attack on speeding.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but the road policing groups nationwide do far more than write speeding tickets.

I'm been putting my mind over the last couple of years to how to get people to pay attention while driving. I have some ideas, but it all comes down to each individual recognising that it is them and only them that they can change. Like, if we all took responsibility for our own driving instead of blaming everything on everyone else, things would improve overnight.

Driving around while giving bugger all thought to it, now, that's a recipe for disaster. However, it is also a learned behaviour. Most people having been driving around badly for years, and not had a negative consequence. What they learn (subconsciously) from that is that there is no need for them to make any effort to change. Then one day their inattention or bad driving leads to an adverse outcome, and suddenly they see what went wrong. Or not. The other option is that they go with societal norms, and look for someone else to blame, through the psychological process of denial.

It is a very, very complex area. It partly explains why the popos do what they can do, and leave the things that are bloody challenging to change.

I've asked plenty of times before, but what is it you'd like the popos to do to improve drivers attention-deficit-disorder?

James Deuce

4th December 2010, 14:07

Spot on Ratus. I reckon a licence should cost 10K + 240 hours of driving practice WITH an instructor and the same to get it back if you lose it. Money is the only incentive to improve behaviour. Fines don't work. Fine people up front and make driving a privilege that costs money instead of the Instant Kiwi scratch-fest after a couple of hours with Dad at 7am on a Sunday morning.

James Deuce

4th December 2010, 14:07

It wouldn't really matter if it didn't make the front page.

At least we'd have a rock solid figure to batter ACC to death with.

A-Fucking-Diddly-Doodly-men.

Spearfish

4th December 2010, 14:13

A glowing epitaph on kb?
or #55+- of this years road toll, that's ALL your life is reduced to.
Just a statistic to be debated ad nauseam by anyone who who has a barrow to push.

shrub

4th December 2010, 14:15

Sorry to burst your bubble, but the road policing groups nationwide do far more than write speeding tickets.

I'm been putting my mind over the last couple of years to how to get people to pay attention while driving. I have some ideas, but it all comes down to each individual recognising that it is them and only them that they can change. Like, if we all took responsibility for our own driving instead of blaming everything on everyone else, things would improve overnight.

Driving around while giving bugger all thought to it, now, that's a recipe for disaster. However, it is also a learned behaviour. Most people having been driving around badly for years, and not had a negative consequence. What they learn (subconsciously) from that is that there is no need for them to make any effort to change. Then one day their inattention or bad driving leads to an adverse outcome, and suddenly they see what went wrong. Or not. The other option is that they go with societal norms, and look for someone else to blame, through the psychological process of denial.

It is a very, very complex area. It partly explains why the popos do what they can do, and leave the things that are bloody challenging to change.

I've asked plenty of times before, but what is it you'd like the popos to do to improve drivers attention-deficit-disorder?

Very true, imagine if everyone drove their cars as though they were in control of 2 tonnes of steel and glass travelling at 15 - 30 meters per second that had the potential to kill in a nano second, and with all kinds of evil projectiles ready to spike into their floppy bits and loved ones. And at the same time if motorcyclists rode as though they were flying through the air just above the ground at the same speed, only with steel level with their nads things might change.

Driving and riding is a very, very risky thing to do and it's a bloody miracle more people don't die and get horribly messed up.

Personally I would rather popo chased bad people and did "proper" police work, and if a comprehensive process of education and tough as fuck driver licensing was imposed. Many years ago I started to learn how to fly planes, and while getting a pilots license is a bloody big job, keeping it is a challenge. this is what i'd like:

1. Everyone going for a license to be required to keep a log book recording conditions, distance covered etc, and for licenses not to be issued until people can show that they have driven open road, night time etc

2. People who get ticketed for specific offenses be required to resit their licenses and keep a log book

3. If you haven't used a class of license for more than (say) 5 years you lose it and need to resit. I have a heavy trade but haven't driven a truck for over 15 years - letting me behind the wheel of a truck would be terrifying.

4. Everyone have to resit their license every 10 years and undergo a medical.

5. Part of getting a license would be formal training and that would include teaching people the outcomes of fucking up.

MarkH

4th December 2010, 14:20

I've asked plenty of times before, but what is it you'd like the popos to do to improve drivers attention-deficit-disorder?

Mandatory driver training - anyone caught breaking the rules of the road (speeding, failing to give way, failing to keep left, running red lights, etc) is force to spend money & time on driver training. For a serious offence 10 days driver training might mean giving up 5 weekends and maybe $100 per day, for 119kph speeding then it might only be 1 Saturday + $100.

If someone thinks that they shouldn't have to do extra training because they know it all then they could prove it by driving/riding legally & safely.

There should also be more testing to get the license originally and there should be voluntary training available for anyone that just want to improve their skills & safety.

I'd rather my taxes subsidize some training then pay for the care of people injured by bad drivers. i.e. better signs & safety barriers instead of just parking an ambulance at the bottom of the cliff.

James Deuce

4th December 2010, 14:28

I'd rather my taxes subsidize some training then pay for the care of people injured by bad drivers. i.e. better signs & safety barriers instead of just parking an ambulance at the bottom of the cliff.

Drivers aren't the only issue.

People that spread shit (any sort of shit. Cow poo, desks, mattresses, carpets, bits off vehicles) on the road, people who let stock wander on the road, Psychilsts who run red lights as a habit, pedestrians who step off the kerb without a moments thought (that's a tragedy btw, Motorcyclists fucking ask for it according to the media), and worst of all, roading professionals who don't sign road works correctly and don't clean up their mess when they finish all deserve the death penalty.

Ban 1%ers, and anyone wearing chaps, a leather vest and fingerless gloves while we're at it.