Buy from NZ? I tried but come on...

[onearmedbandit]

I just imported some stuff from the states for my bike and a friends. While I made some decent savings on my stuff, it was the part I got for my friend that blew me away. Honda want to charge over $600 for the seat cover for a 2009 CBR1000RR. That's $600+ for a piece of plastic smaller than the cover of a magazine. Yes it comes painted and with decals. However I bought the same part for him from America for US$164 (NZ$210), add on shipping, customs and GST it still came out at being under half price.

Seriously. It's a fucking joke. I know it's not the dealers who set the price (thanks Blue Wing) but $600 for a fucking piece of plastic? After this experience (took less than 2wks to get here right on xmas time) I know I'll be looking overseas first. Sure I'll still look at NZ suppliers, but I won't be wasting any time if I find a similar situation to what I've just experienced.

So yes Robert Taylor and other staunch supporters of buying locally, I'd love to keep my money in NZ, keeping NZ'ers in jobs, keeping the NZ economy ticking along, but if it stays like this the only NZ companies I'll be supporting will be couriers.

[tri boy]

Would a local trimmer/upholstery company have been able to do something similar, (or even better) with that type of cash outlay?
McDonalds seats would build a new seat for $600.
Just saying:sunny:

[onearmedbandit]

Would a local trimmer/upholstery company have been able to do something similar, (or even better) with that type of cash outlay?
McDonalds seats would build a new seat for $600.
Just saying:sunny:

To the degree of quality and finish of the OEM part? As a one off? For less than $300?

Here is what I'm talking about.

<img src="http://images.idealhere.com/MMProfiles/AM07-01-0041/001.jpg"/>

[bombsquad]

Ha i went into our local honda agent (very grudgingly) to price up an airbox lid for one of my cbrs, the price was astronomical for a simple bit of plastic so i didnt bother with it.
ended up getting my old one repaired (amazingly well) for about 40 bux

[terbang]

The exchange rate is on our side right now so it makes sense to buy overseas. I buy a lot of stuff via the internet, especially OEM stuff. Its just way cheaper.

All very well to promote the NZ companies and suppliers, but if they are going to overprice themselves, then there is competition at our fingertips.

[MSTRS]

This is the hard plastic cover used to hide the pillion seat, and not a vinyl replacement seat covering?

[onearmedbandit]

This is the hard plastic cover used to hide the pillion seat, and not a vinyl replacement seat covering?

Yes, well not 'hide the seat' as the seat is taken off to put the plastic cover on.

[steve_t]

Man, even $300 seems expensive for a seat cowl to me :innocent:

[shafty]

Great info, cheers

[Quasievil]

So yes Robert Taylor and other staunch supporters of buying locally, I'd love to keep my money in NZ, keeping NZ'ers in jobs, keeping the NZ economy ticking along, but if it stays like this the only NZ companies I'll be supporting will be couriers.

Im a Staunch supporter............until its stoopid.
I reckon always at least try local first.

Its a rock na hard place for both the customers and the shops, its not a good situation currently for either parties, we all just have to do our best for our personal finances, families and business.

[MSTRS]

Yes, well not 'hide the seat' as the seat is taken off to put the plastic cover on.

Thought so. So a motor trimmer/seat recoverer couldn't help.
You'd need a blank (good luck with finding one), or one off a wreck, then new decals (genuine $$$, replica $) and a spraypainter who knows his stuff...plastic primers, colour matching et al. Still cheaper than 'NZ new' - but maybe much the same as your purchase from the States?

[awa355]

Ha i went into our local honda agent (very grudgingly) to price up an airbox lid for one of my cbrs, the price was astronomical for a simple bit of plastic so i didnt bother with it.
ended up getting my old one repaired (amazingly well) for about 40 bux

I have also dealt with the Honda dealer locally and found their prices were astronomical. I have been getting Honda bits in from The Honda dealer in Sidney at half the price and half the delivery time. And thats allowing for freight and exchange rates.

The biggest disapointment with the local dealer is that they didn't want to try to locate parts. The alternator gasket the local dealer said did not exist, was in my letterbox 5 days after confirming my order with Sidney Motorcycles. And that was in the week leading up to xmas.

[Big Dave]

Hearsay is that they are going to change the excise and tax rules to stop the cash drain.

[steve_t]

Hearsay is that they are going to change the excise and tax rules to stop the cash drain.

Isn't the only cash drain a reduction in cash to the government coffers?

[Virago]

Isn't the only cash drain a reduction in cash to the government coffers?

Hardly.

Bike shops aren't closing in droves because they're sick of making money...

[martybabe]

The biggest disapointment with the local dealer is that they didn't want to try to locate parts. The alternator gasket the local dealer said did not exist, was in my letterbox 5 days after confirming my order with Sidney Motorcycles. And that was in the week leading up to xmas.

I hear that alright...Asked a guy to source me a part at the local dealers, big sigh and a pathetic 3 minute search and the computer says Nah. can't get it, No way.

Same dealer, different bloke, a few weeks later, spent best part of an afternoon on the interweb/ phoning contacts/dismantlers and the part was with me two days later. I don't mind paying for that kind of service and I don't think he even put any commission on for himself, just relying on future custom..and he's got it.

Totally agree with the cost savings online though, can be huge even after John Key has his share to pay for his holidays.

[bsasuper]

The only things a buy locally are tyres,oil and filters .I buy everything else from the US (yes for half the cost or better including shipping) that includes chain/sprockets, sparkplugs, any parts.And now riding gear, after buying a new jacket at $500 and when asking for a discount being told ohh no I would have to sell it at cost then, then seeing it at half the price few months later.I think most business think there is still plenty of money around, so mark up heaps,I hate to say it but my cash is going overseas untill bike shops here start selling at a fair price, the only thing that are cheap is the crap thats been sitting on the shelfs for 3yrs, because they put silly prices on way back then.If they priced it at a reasonable cost first up, theyed sell twice as much.

[awa355]

...Totally agree with the cost savings online though, can be huge even after John Key has his share to pay for his holidays.

I work for John Key ( sort of) and if he's expecting me to pay for his holiday, I just hope he aint planning on going too far.

[White trash]

Hardly.

Bike shops aren't closing in droves because they're sick of making money...

Mate, are you living on a different planet to me?

Bike shops ARE closing, left right and centre. Established bike shops too.

I work in a bike shop, times are tough. Amazingly so. It's tough out there and most only just make ends meet. Some live week to week and start shitting when things are quiet, when you've got a staff of 20 people relying on that shop being open so they can feed their kids, it's worrying.

In Frasers case, I can fully understand the position, and would have done exactly the same thing. Importers need to have a closer relationship with their suppliers to make sure people WANT to spend their dollars here.

[SMOKEU]

Honda wanted to charge me $80 for a fuel filter for my bike. It's just a little piece of plastic, and being a carbied engine it's not the stronger, higher quality stuff that has to withstand the higher fuel pressures from an EFI engine.

Bike shops here often charge close to $1000, even more than that just for a single muffler. Add on a metre long section of pipe and you can expect to have your wallet $1500 lighter.

Then the bike shops complain how they're going bankrupt with the way the economy is. Money talks.

[Taz]

For $300 bucks I woulda left the seat bare!!

[Virago]

Mate, are you living on a different planet to me?

Bike shops ARE closing, left right and centre. Established bike shops too...

Precisely my point...:yes:

[onearmedbandit]

I understand that being in NZ we are at the end of the chain, that there are lots of fingers in the pie to get the parts here, but that still doesn't add up. If I can import a single piece for less than what Blue Wing charge their dealers (I hope!!!) then someone is getting rich. And it ain't the dealers...

[Big Dave]

Mate, are you living on a different planet to me?.

Planet Irony.

[bombsquad]

Planet Irony.

Right next to planet sarcasm?

[bombsquad]

I have also dealt with the Honda dealer locally and found their prices were astronomical. The biggest disapointment with the local dealer is that they didn't want to try to locate parts.

Haha I see your from TeAwamutu, I believe the Hamilton and TA dealerships are now owned by the same people and both are fucking useless!!!
ive had the same experiance with them not being remotely interested in trying to find something. I suggest going to either Boyds (they can still do great deals on honda stuff) or even waikato yamaha.

[Quasievil]

I think most business think there is still plenty of money around, so mark up heaps

Youre Nuts aint ya for the record , I think most customers think business owners are creaming it.....
Do you ask for a discount on your oil and spark plugs to?

A $500 jacket is not exactly OTT ya tight bastard :yes:

[ICE180]

I just got two helmets for the prcie of 1 from germany including post of $40 NZD

so a grand total of $521 for two helmets of which one here cost $600

I tried to support local dealers but the price difference was to good
and yes I had tried them on here etc

[Mully]

Local dealers (when they bother to reply to my queries), either can't be bothered finding parts ("Frame Sliders for a GSX1400? Nah, they don't exist. No-one does huggers for them either") or try to charge me through the nose.

I've found frame sliders in AU for AU$218 - decided to try the local dealers before buying off-shore.

My e-mail query took nearly a week and it was (from memory) "AU$400ish, plus freight, plus Customs Clearance, plus GST"

So now I have a quandry - do I "support" the local dealers or be able to buy the hugger and the sliders for less than that and have some money in the bank for petrol?

[Big Dave]

Right next to planet sarcasm?

Aye - astronomers have difficulty separating them.

Reminds me - Still a favourite. Ed Byrne on irony:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nT1TVSTkAXg

[bsasuper]

Youre Nuts aint ya for the record , I think most customers think business owners are creaming it.....
Do you ask for a discount on your oil and spark plugs to?

A $500 jacket is not exactly OTT ya tight bastard :yes:

Well if I was a single man,Id have heaps of spare cash falling out of my back pocket, I would buy local, but I'm not and have overheads like wife, 3 kids, morgage.I dont buy the latest posing jacket for $1000, I even stopped using MOBIL 1,so I have to make do with the spare cash I have, and if that means getting sparkplugs for $10 each oposed to $35 local, so be it

[Quasievil]

Well if I was a single man,Id have heaps of spare cash falling out of my back pocket, I would buy local, but I'm not and have overheads like wife, 3 kids, morgage.I dont buy the latest posing jacket for $1000, I even stopped using MOBIL 1,so I have to make do with the spare cash I have, and if that means getting sparkplugs for $10 each oposed to $35 local, so be it

Well dude you need to talk to me then
I can get you Mobil 1 at a very good price, and for gear well what can I say

[BMWST?]

I just got two helmets for the prcie of 1 from germany including post of $40 NZD

so a grand total of $521 for two helmets of which one here cost $600

I tried to support local dealers but the price difference was to good
and yes I had tried them on here etc

thats fukn rude....

[BMWST?]

Local dealers (when they bother to reply to my queries), either can't be bothered finding parts ("Frame Sliders for a GSX1400? Nah, they don't exist. No-one does huggers for them either") or try to charge me through the nose.

I've found frame sliders in AU for AU$218 - decided to try the local dealers before buying off-shore.

My e-mail query took nearly a week and it was (from memory) "AU$400ish, plus freight, plus Customs Clearance, plus GST"

So now I have a quandry - do I "support" the local dealers or be able to buy the hugger and the sliders for less than that and have some money in the bank for petrol?

tell them what you just told us and see!

[Woodman]

Don't feel bad about sending your money overseas. Remember when you buy something from a dealer a portion of what you pay for each part goes overseas anyway, and unless the dealers really are putting huge margins on then buying online is possibly sending less money out of the country.
The (most) parts are not made here in NZ, if they were it would be a different story.

[Woodman]

Well dude you need to talk to me then
I can get you Mobil 1 at a very good price,

Thats loyalty to your distributors for ya??

[Quasievil]

Thats loyalty to your distributors for ya??

RRP is a very good price smart arse

[Smifffy]

I just got back from spending chrstms in the US with the Mollz family. It was really grating to compare the price of virtually anything against what we have to pay here.

$32 for levis 501s? Even when the FX was at 47 cents that still made nz prices ridiculous.

Wages there are on a par with here, maybe even higher in many industries.

Blazing fast internets with no download cap, 100 odd tv channels and unlimited domestic tolls for $180 a month.

Even comrade Helen prefers to live & work there.

[Smifffy]

RRP is a very good price smart arse

Good for whom?

[BMWST?]

I just got back from spending chrstms in the US with the Mollz family. It was really grating to compare the price of virtually anything against what we have to pay here.

$32 for levis 501s? Even when the FX was at 47 cents that still made nz prices ridiculous.

Wages there are on a par with here, maybe even higher in many industries.

Blazing fast internets with no download cap, 100 odd tv channels and unlimited domestic tolls for $180 a month.

Even comrade Helen prefers to live & work there.

grab a mortagee sale you will be sweet then

[HenryDorsetCase]

the other thing is that if your particular brand or model is not supported by the distributor, you are fucked, pretty much. Very difficult getting parts for (say) a VFR400 NC30 or any classic SOHC Honda from the local dealer. The good news is there are specialists who can, and do, help.

[Quasievil]

Good for whom?

Try and help a biker out and the Smart arses wanna play ??:motu:

[steve_t]

I just got back from spending chrstms in the US with the Mollz family. It was really grating to compare the price of virtually anything against what we have to pay here.

$32 for levis 501s? Even when the FX was at 47 cents that still made nz prices ridiculous.

Wages there are on a par with here, maybe even higher in many industries.

Blazing fast internets with no download cap, 100 odd tv channels and unlimited domestic tolls for $180 a month.

Even comrade Helen prefers to live & work there.

Economy of scale.

[Smifffy]

grab a mortagee sale you will be sweet then

Don't need a mortgagee sale, even house prices are half what they are here, for more building.

[Ocean1]

Economy of scale.

Nope. Manipulation of financial markets, exchange rates, etc.

[Smifffy]

Economy of scale.

Hardly, it all comes from the same place most of our shit does (China).

In the end, it doesn't really matter how it gets justified, the fact remains stuff is extremely expensive to purchase in NZ, and in order for the consumer to get value as defined in a global economy they need to source their shit offshore.

[Big Dave]

Just on that side topic - I spend a fair bit of time communicating with Americans through my Buell interests.
Things are not universally good there. Not very good at all in the north.

'We've run dangerously close to the death of hope itself.' Posted one friend.
They have fallen far and on some hard times.

[steve_t]

Just on that side topic - I spend a fair bit of time communicating with Americans through my Buell interests.
Things are not universally good there. Not very good at all in the north.

'We've run dangerously close to the death of hope itself.' Posted one friend.
They have fallen far and on some hard times.

Yeah, I see "Clear Alternatives" went under recently. Times are still defo tough everywhere

[Smifffy]

Just on that side topic - I spend a fair bit of time communicating with Americans through my Buell interests.
Things are not universally good there. Not very good at all in the north.

'We've run dangerously close to the death of hope itself.' Posted one friend.
They have fallen far and on some hard times.

Yeah, I was in the South - the deep South, they've been hit by hurricanes & oil spills as well as everything else. Their economy has never been great, everyone I spoke to was in employment and paid well, the firms they worked for were working hard to chase business and profits were down. These people were mostly fairly well educated. They used the price of petrol as an example of how bad their economy is - it was up to us 86c a litre!!! :shit: :shit: :shit:

Their economy has dipped from when I was last there in the boom times of 04 & 07, but didn't appear worse than in 02, and I would still say it is in much better shape than ours - not that that's saying much.

Still nz is home and i like it here, I just get frustrated at the prices we are charged for shit.

[Horse]

I own a Triumph. Nothing but good things to say about the local Triumph dealer. But the actual prices for accessories in NZ are ridiculous. I don't know if it's Triumph NZ or the UK mothership but someone is smoking crack when they set NZ Triumph accessory prices.

For a couple of things I've wanted urgently that were in stock in Auckland, I've paid the NZ price. But for anything else I'd go to ordering online from the US. Including exchange rate AND shipping AND getting hit for GST at the border you'll still save at least 30%.

[rok-the-boat]

I got various engine parts for my DR from Ebay - hassle, but far cheaper. For my Harley (now gone) I also got everything from the US.

[puddytat]

Aah the benefit of Free Trade,the Government is busy selling us out all the time so whats wrong with shopping "out there"?
Free Trade is nit about raising our standard of living, its to bring it down to the level of the third world economies....& the whole world is shopping there.

[tri boy]

I got no loose cash to shop with:crybaby:
I'm stoked me n kanny bought second hand bikes about two years ago, as I could see this scenario unfolding.

Heres my prediction for 2011-2012.
It's gunna get tighter/harder for most, then BANG,summits gunna give.
MHO

[scumdog]

I just got back from spending chrstms in the US with the Mollz family. It was really grating to compare the price of virtually anything against what we have to pay here.

$32 for levis 501s? Even when the FX was at 47 cents that still made nz prices ridiculous.

Wages there are on a par with here, maybe even higher in many industries.

Blazing fast internets with no download cap, 100 odd tv channels and unlimited domestic tolls for $180 a month.



The same as I found out when there a couple of months back - we actually still had money left over at the end of the trip because we had 'over-budgetted' when planning and figuring out how much for food, gas etc...

[scumdog]

Free Trade is nit about raising our standard of living, its to bring it down to the level of the third world economies....& the whole world is shopping there.

Hence why the US (and others) are in such a pickle:yes:

[scumdog]

Just on that side topic - I spend a fair bit of time communicating with Americans through my Buell interests.
Things are not universally good there. Not very good at all in the north.

'We've run dangerously close to the death of hope itself.' Posted one friend.
They have fallen far and on some hard times.

Yep BD, I noticed while over there that there's a lot of guys doing a fair bit of 'belt-tightening' to try and be mortgage-free and less overall debt as they are all running scard of being out of work.

Just as we talk about our crap weather in NZ the guys in the US most common discussion topic was about how poor the economy was doing, how cheap imports were killing them, how factories were shutting down/going off-shore etc.

Saw lots os 'For Rent' signs on shops and other signs that indicated times were tough.

[ynot slow]

The dreaded margins rears it's head.

If an owner is lucky in business they make dollars,from a purely furnishing perspective with over 25years involvement,the controlled costs,i.e wages,rates(until council revalue),insurance(unless tossers smash windows)are but part of the equation.I was party to a buying episode with fabrics to sell and stock(yep we had rolls in stock)at the time we bought for say $3.00mtr(ex gst) sell at $12.95(if lucky),sounded great margin,but we bought 2000mts,but had to take 150mts of absolute shit stock which we sold at below cost and at market days to quit.Add the same to our flooring with having to buy 200mts of carpet,and 500mts of 2,3,4mtr vinyl to get a decent margin.

Add the few lounge suites(20 odd)dining suites(50 odd)rugs(50 odd)and when you do a stocktake even a small town will have $500,000 on the floor,and watching the boss's face shine when you sell a $2000 item from stock,and not a $5000 item on order,priceless lol.Sure my old bosses made money,but they were well established family firms.

As an idea our budgets were approx $120,000 per month and we had 6 staff.

[Owl]

RRP is a very good price smart arse

Certainly not the Northern Accessories RRP!:no:

[zeocen]

I've tried my hardest to stay loyal to my dealership because they treat me so well, and it's no fault to them when other people have the markup. But, sometimes it's just ridiculous and you're pretty much forced to shop overseas.

A centre stand for my old Hornet was close to $600 over here! It's nuts. I enquired about some Leo Vince pipes for my viffer, $2400 for aluminium. I tried to hide my mouth from :shit:'ing.

Long story short, I have some Leo Vince pipes on the way from overseas for a grand total of $780 NZD including shipping.

As I say, I'm the first to support who I feel deserves it but when you save $1620 it's fairly hard to continue that support.

[Dare]

Saw lots os 'For Rent' signs on shops and other signs that indicated times were tough.
Sounds like here a few years ago, companies disappearing all over the show.

[imdying]

I'm happy to wait till Honda Japan takes over the NZ distributorship from Blue Wing before I buy another NZ new Honda. If that never happens, that's life... I'll buy it overseas and import it new.

Blue Wing are robbers, they can stick their $620 bright orange seat cowls up their bums. Even a new rear seat was cheaper at $580.

[terbang]

the other thing is that if your particular brand or model is not supported by the distributor, you are fucked, pretty much. Very difficult getting parts for (say) a VFR400 NC30 or any classic SOHC Honda from the local dealer. The good news is there are specialists who can, and do, help.

Hah yeah, try a Cagiva Navigator ... There is a very good web based site in Europe that has a lot of parts for those and thats about it.

[Blackflagged]

I've tried my hardest to stay loyal to my dealership because they treat me so well, and it's no fault to them when other people have the markup. But, sometimes it's just ridiculous and you're pretty much forced to shop overseas.

A centre stand for my old Hornet was close to $600 over here! It's nuts. I enquired about some Leo Vince pipes for my viffer, $2400 for aluminium. I tried to hide my mouth from :shit:'ing.

Long story short, I have some Leo Vince pipes on the way from overseas for a grand total of $780 NZD including shipping.

As I say, I'm the first to support who I feel deserves it but when you save $1620 it's fairly hard to continue that support.

Dealers often know they can`t compete here, and may wish you well in buying offshore, and here when you can.(Not saying you, are whine) but some whine and carry on, when there nothing the Dealer can do about it! I can tell you The dealer here`s cost price is more than $780.

[HenryDorsetCase]

I'm happy to wait till Honda Japan takes over the NZ distributorship from Blue Wing before I buy another NZ new Honda. If that never happens, that's life... I'll buy it overseas and import it new.

Blue Wing are robbers, they can stick their $620 bright orange seat cowls up their bums. Even a new rear seat was cheaper at $580.

On that bright day, perhaps Honda motorcycle prices will be more comparable with overseas pricing too. And I will be able to get that VT750RS I want. Though with the US economy being what it is, with money we could do that already.

[jasonu]

Just on that side topic - I spend a fair bit of time communicating with Americans through my Buell interests.
Things are not universally good there. Not very good at all in the north.

'We've run dangerously close to the death of hope itself.' Posted one friend.
They have fallen far and on some hard times.

Yes things are really tough here. House prices less than 1/2 what they were in 05, homes being foreclosed on left and right (while the govt is giving millions to shit holes like Haiti), 20% unemployment in my area. Lucky for me I have an ok job and the cost of living, food, gas,beer (is less than $18 for a 30 pack) etc is way less than in NZ.

(Quote) Their economy has dipped from when I was last there in the boom times of 04 & 07, but didn't appear worse than in 02, and I would still say it is in much better shape than ours - not that that's saying much.

The US economy has dipped, Surely you're having a laugh!!! The arse has fallen out of the US economy and from what I have seen in the NZ news, plus I was there for a bit 2 years ago, it is totally being understated.
Things are far worse now than in 07, I wish things were as good as they were in 02.

[gammaguy]

Im a Staunch supporter............until its stoopid.
I reckon always at least try local first.

Its a rock na hard place for both the customers and the shops, its not a good situation currently for either parties, we all just have to do our best for our personal finances, families and business.

dont you just love that one?i had the same thing a while back,a certain BMW dealer told me a part i needed did not exist,even when i quoted them a part nuimber.

A week later I received the part that did not exist,from Australia

and it was cheaper than the NZ dealer quoted me ,before they changed their mind and said it was never available.

its a joke,which is why I have been buying and selling online as a first choice for years now.

[MSTRS]

...beer (is less than $18 for a 30 pack)...

That's because it isn't beer...I think they get it from the same weasels that produce Steinlager.

[jasonu]

That's because it isn't beer...I think they get it from the same weasels that produce Steinlager.

Nah, the beer is not that bad.
How about 1.75L Jack Daniels for $46US or 1.25L Seagrams 7 for $22US and a 12 can pack of coke (or whatever you like) for $3.00US.

[awa355]

Bike shops here often charge close to $1000, even more than that just for a single muffler. Add on a metre long section of pipe and you can expect to have your wallet $1500 lighter.

Then the bike shops complain how they're going bankrupt with the way the economy is. Money talks.


When I had my 2008 CBF250, they Honda quoted me $1900 for a replacement muffler and 1m of header pipe. For a single pipe and muffler for a basic 250 commuter bike?? . I know there is a catylitic converter in there but 1900 is still a lot of money for a simple concept. For an extra grand, I could've bought a complete 2nd hand bike.

Years ago my mate put two coby's on his CX500. had them on for ages and never had any problems. Looked bloody awful but WTF. did the job.

[SMOKEU]

When I had my 2008 CBF250, they Honda quoted me $1900 for a replacement muffler and 1m of header pipe. For a single pipe and muffler for a basic 250 commuter bike?? . I know there is a catylitic converter in there but 1900 is still a lot of money for a simple concept. For an extra grand, I could've bought a complete 2nd hand bike.

Years ago my mate put two coby's on his CX500. had them on for ages and never had any problems. Looked bloody awful but WTF. did the job.

Just have a look at the price of an aftermarket Yoshi or Akrapovic pipe.

[awa355]

Just have a look at the price of an aftermarket Yoshi or Akrapovic pipe.

If I'd bought a Yoshi can, I could've kept it and thrown the bike away. Would've been quicker running down the street with the Yoshi under my arm.

Back in the seventies, we grizzled about the price of parts so maybe not much has changed.

[k14]

...a 12 can pack of coke (or whatever you like) for $3.00US.
Only cause it is laced with high fructose corn syrup that is only economic to refine because the farmers are subsidised by the government (go capitalism!). All the food contains that crap and that is probably the main reason I would struggle to live there. From my 6 week holiday there in August there was certainly lots of things that made it more attractive than NZ but in the end I came to the conclusion that we don't know how lucky we are in NZ. I'm quite happy to pay more for my bike parts :yes:

[scumdog]

Only cause it is laced with high fructose corn syrup parts :yes:


And the coke or whatever drinks in NZ are any 'healthier':blink:

And I was there in August too - I didn't reckon the food was that bad if you shied away from the processed and fast food crap.

[jellywrestler]

the other thing is that if your particular brand or model is not supported by the distributor, you are fucked, pretty much. Very difficult getting parts for (say) a VFR400 NC30 or any classic SOHC Honda from the local dealer. The good news is there are specialists who can, and do, help.

econohonda in te aroha are great for older Hondas www.econohonda.co.nz

[Katman]

If they priced it at a reasonable cost first up, theyed sell twice as much.

I'm interested to know what you consider to be a reasonable mark-up.

[jasonu]

And the coke or whatever drinks in NZ are any 'healthier':blink:

And I was there in August too - I didn't reckon the food was that bad if you shied away from the processed and fast food crap.

Processed and fast food are crap no matter where you go.

Generally the food is much the same as in NZ. Some stuff is better here and some is not. The butter is crap and good apples are hard to find.
I hate to say it but the beef is way better tasteing here. Summat to do with being grain fed so I am told.

[onearmedbandit]

From my 6 week holiday there in August there was certainly lots of things that made it more attractive than NZ but in the end I came to the conclusion that we don't know how lucky we are in NZ. I'm quite happy to pay more for my bike parts :yes:

I'd rather live here and buy my parts here at a fair price, until then I'll live here and buy my parts from there.

[Smifffy]

Hell, we were in Louisiana - NOTHING wrong with the food there lol.

[jasonu]

Hell, we were in Louisiana - NOTHING wrong with the food there lol.

Yep I never had a bad meal in New Orleans. Great place to visit.

[Grubber]

Well dude you need to talk to me then
I can get you Mobil 1 at a very good price, and for gear well what can I say

Can you do it for less than $60. If so....i'll be in!

[SPman]

Hell, we were in Louisiana - NOTHING wrong with the food there lol.
Nevada and Arizona - the only food worth eating was Mexican - preferably made by Mexicans (of which there were vast numbers).

[p.dath]

Hearsay is that they are going to change the excise and tax rules to stop the cash drain.

As the Government moves to create more and more free trade agreements the possibility for excise and tax rules to limit imports gets less and less.

The Government wont be doing anything that limits the imports - and nor should it in a free market economy.

[hayd3n]

getting shipped from wales

complete head 30.000kms(valves/cams/tensioner/cover etc 100 pound $208.40
10x head bolts 45 pound $93.80
1 x head gasket 25 pound $52.10
generator gasket 5 pound $10.40
6 x exaust studs/nuts 15 pound $31.30
4x exaust gaskets 10 pound $20.80
1x rear cowel 10 pound $20.80
1x renthal ultra low bars 10 pound $20.80
1x shipping 80 pound $166.70
to transfer money to wales $20

total $645.30 nz dollars = 300 pound + $20

[Big Dave]

As the Government moves to create more and more free trade agreements the possibility for excise and tax rules to limit imports gets less and less.

The Government wont be doing anything that limits the imports - and nor should it in a free market economy.

The retail sector will argue vehemently with you.

Was just reading this:
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/money/money-matters/retailer-tax-plea-to-fight-internet/story-fn300aev-1225981236682

[Blackflagged]

There just saying make it the same for everybody.
They would get no were with Bill English. He only likes Bankers and Movie Makers.

[White trash]

getting shipped from wales

complete head 30.000kms(valves/cams/tensioner/cover etc 100 pound $208.40
10x head bolts 45 pound $93.80
1 x head gasket 25 pound $52.10
generator gasket 5 pound $10.40
6 x exaust studs/nuts 15 pound $31.30
4x exaust gaskets 10 pound $20.80
1x rear cowel 10 pound $20.80
1x renthal ultra low bars 10 pound $20.80
1x shipping 80 pound $166.70
to transfer money to wales $20

total $645.30 nz dollars = 300 pound + $20

What a fuckwit.

You could easily have saved $80 by buying from LOCAL fastner suppliers.

[White trash]

How's this for an idea?

All you bitches winging about how much local suppliers charge and the massive margins they're "obviously" making, are all now openeing your own wholesale franchise with a few to making millions.

I look very forward to your posts about your new Bentley and what tyres you should buy to fit your Lambroghini.

[onearmedbandit]

tyres you should buy to fit your Lambroghini.

Lambroghini bro? Chur, a set 15" '5-spots' with Eagers will do fine cuz.

[Kickaha]

Lambroghini bro? Chur, a set 15" '5-spots' with Eagers will do fine cuz.

Eagers aren't bought in anymore, you might have to go for some BFG

[Mully]

I'm interested to know what you consider to be a reasonable mark-up.

Actually, Katman, you might be in a position to comment on this.

I was discussing with someone the other day that I'd be happy to buy from an established shop who bought over the internet:

i.e I want frame sliders and a hugger, which I could buy online much cheaper than the local dealers. I'd be prepared to pay ~10% (more than cost) than the online price more for a local dealer to handle the guff (ordering, paying, Customs Clearance etc) and make it available for me to pick up (or delivering to my door)

Anything I bought that I wasn't happy to fit, I'd pay them to fit as well. Plus they should be able to get cheaper freight on multiple shipments (and maybe a cheaper buy price from a preferred supplier)

The only reason I can think of why this wouldn't work is if local dealers had a deal with the official importers not to do that. And the shitty service levels as well (lads, if you advertise an e-mail address, have someone actually looking at and responding to e-mails - I prefer e-mails cos I can send them whenever I get two minutes.)

Any thoughts?

[gammaguy]

How's this for an idea?

All you bitches winging about how much local suppliers charge and the massive margins they're "obviously" making, are all now openeing your own wholesale franchise with a few to making millions.

I look very forward to your posts about your new Bentley and what tyres you should buy to fit your Lambroghini.

mate,its not the retailers driving bentleys

but the importers,now theres another story......:yes:

[scumdog]

How's this for an idea?

All you bitches winging about how much local suppliers charge and the massive margins they're "obviously" making, are all now openeing your own wholesale franchise with a few to making millions.

I look very forward to your posts about your new Bentley and what tyres you should buy to fit your Lambroghini.

The spelling
The grammar.
Are you pissed?

[steve_t]

Actually, Katman, you might be in a position to comment on this.

I was discussing with someone the other day that I'd be happy to buy from an established shop who bought over the internet:

i.e I want frame sliders and a hugger, which I could buy online much cheaper than the local dealers. I'd be prepared to pay ~10% (more than cost) than the online price more for a local dealer to handle the guff (ordering, paying, Customs Clearance etc) and make it available for me to pick up (or delivering to my door)

Anything I bought that I wasn't happy to fit, I'd pay them to fit as well. Plus they should be able to get cheaper freight on multiple shipments (and maybe a cheaper buy price from a preferred supplier)

The only reason I can think of why this wouldn't work is if local dealers had a deal with the official importers not to do that. And the shitty service levels as well (lads, if you advertise an e-mail address, have someone actually looking at and responding to e-mails - I prefer e-mails cos I can send them whenever I get two minutes.)

Any thoughts?

10% more than what we could pay thru ebay or online from the US is definitely nowhere near enough to cover wages, rent, utilities, taxes etc.

PS. Yes, I know my name's not Katman :innocent:

[Mully]

10% more than what we could pay thru ebay or online from the US is definitely nowhere near enough to cover wages, rent, utilities, taxes etc.

PS. Yes, I know my name's not Katman :innocent:

I started asking Katman, but I figured anyone might want to take part.

Local retailers have more that 10% on the parts they sell?

Especially if they aren't holding the stock?

[White trash]

Mully.

Ten fucken percent? Are you joking man?

Example. I have 5 staff in my spares department to deal with phone calls, walk ins, and general timewasters, that's FIVE. At minimum wage, I have to sell three thousand, two hundred dollars worth of shit at EVERY opening hour at your ten percant margin just to cover them being there. Don't get me started on power, floor space rental for the dept. and many more charges Joe Blogs has no idea of.

[ukusa]

local retailers need to pressure the importers on price. Point out a few facts to them, point them to these forums. Tell them what the same parts can be imported privately for, and tell them if they don't start to do something about the prices, soon they will have no business.

As for a fair price, if a part could be bought locally at no more than 15% higher than a private import price (including exchange rate, shipping etc), then I would probably buy it here. As it stands, I personally prefer saving 40 - 50% by buying overseas. Most of the stuff I do buy, if I couldn't buy it at the price ex overseas, I probably wouldn't buy at all.

[steve_t]

I started asking Katman, but I figured anyone might want to take part.

Local retailers have more that 10% on the parts they sell?

Especially if they aren't holding the stock?

I'm not in retail but was under the understanding that in industries with relatively low product turnover, the margin needs to be at least 100%. Obviously, if retailers pay the same as, if not more than, we can get products from the US, they're either going to need to sell a shitload of goods at lower markups or basically rely on those who can't be bothered getting stuff in themselves. It's a lose/lose situation.
In saying this, I have no idea how computer retailers are making any money cos I know their margins a very low

[Mully]

Mully.

Ten fucken percent? Are you joking man?

Example. I have 5 staff in my spares department to deal with phone calls, walk ins, and general timewasters, that's FIVE. At minimum wage, I have to sell three thousand, two hundred dollars worth of shit at EVERY opening hour at your ten percant margin just to cover them being there. Don't get me started on power, floor space rental for the dept. and many more charges Joe Blogs has no idea of.

OK, calm down. Was just putting it out there.

In this case, if you could sell items that you don't normally sell (cos there's no point in you carrying them) using your current resource (i.e one of your guys on a PC), isn't that better than everyone going online and cutting you out altogether?

It's no skin off my nose either way - I just think retail shops need to be embracing on-line ordering and drop-shipments rather than complaining that everyone is cutting them out.

[Blackflagged]

Think you have the wrong end of the stick. Did you Read the first page.Who`s complaining about being cut out?Think he was just trying to explain the basic costs involved. You can make millions , and go broke if you have to spend millions.

[Jantar]

...

i.e I want frame sliders and a hugger, which I could buy online much cheaper than the local dealers. I'd be prepared to pay ~10% (more than cost) than the online price more for a local dealer to handle the guff (ordering, paying, Customs Clearance etc) and make it available for me to pick up (or delivering to my door)...
So lets say you want to buy $300 worth of gear online (including freight). You'd be prepared to pay $330 at a local dealer.

The dealer has to pay the overseas supplier $300, and a further $45 to the taxman for GST. You may be exempt GST for such a small purchase, but your dealer isn't. So effectively you want the dealer to spend his time and make a loss just to make life easier for you. :facepalm:

I buy locally at up to 50% more than I can import the item for. Over 50% premium and I shop overseas.

[Mully]

The dealer has to pay the overseas supplier $300, and a further $45 to the taxman for GST. You may be exempt GST for such a small purchase, but your dealer isn't. So effectively you want the dealer to spend his time and make a loss just to make life easier for you. :facepalm:


Sorry, I meant plus GST.

Landed cost plus 10% was the figure I was suggesting.

[steve_t]

OK, calm down. Was just putting it out there.

In this case, if you could sell items that you don't normally sell (cos there's no point in you carrying them) using your current resource (i.e one of your guys on a PC), isn't that better than everyone going online and cutting you out altogether?

It's no skin off my nose either way - I just think retail shops need to be embracing on-line ordering and drop-shipments rather than complaining that everyone is cutting them out.

Waikato Yamaha are quite good utilising Trademe quite a bit.
Unfortunately, your online ordering / drop-shipment model doesn't work at the moment either. Let pretend you're a retailer. As a retailer, customers expect you to carry stock. A product you sell 1 of in a year needs a higher margin than something you sell every day to make it worthwhile but normally it ends up the other way. The product you only sell 1 of in a year probably isn't worth stocking but you may not have known that at the time you ordered it, or a customer ordered it and didn't follow through on the purchase leaving you lumbered with it. As a retailer you're going to have a lot of importing as opposed to the consumer who only imports a few things a year. This will flag you to NZ Customs and you will almost always be stung for duty/GST vs the consumer who will often get through without paying any (less often these days though). So you take your cost plus freight plus taxes and put on a 10-15% margin. Not only is your product still reasonably more expensive than what the consumer pays via the internet, but you're not making enough to cover expenses. I guess this is where people chime in and say "something's better than nothing".
Probably, the worst thing for retailers is that identical items are available from overseas meaning that people go to shops and try on things for fit/size and then buy online. I'm sure there'd be a massive backlash if bike shops started charging their non-regular clientele a few dollars to try on gear a la wedding dress shops but it wouldn't be a surprise if that became the case in the future :shit:
So, what's the solution? No friggin idea.
The other thing I have to mention is that both Boyd MC and Waikato Yamaha gave my missus great deals on gear after we had a yarn to them. Not only did they offer great service and useful advice, but got (at least perceived) good value. Sure, the gear may have been cheaper online but we were happy to buy from the places that had good, friendly service and we were able to support local business too.

[Mully]

Unfortunately, your online ordering / drop-shipment model doesn't work at the moment either.
Probably, the worst thing for retailers is that identical items are available from overseas meaning that people go to shops and try on things for fit/size and then buy online.
So, what's the solution? No friggin idea.


Great post - only snipped for space. And my bolding, of course

I agree that it may not work at the moment - but I think the shops have to proactive cos the internets aren't going to go away.

I don't know what the solution is either.

We deliberately didn't buy new lids when we went to Melbourne (despite the Shoei range being much bigger over there) because we want to buy them locally. The pricing wasn't dissimilar, but we could claim the GST back when we left Aussie.

[rwh]

Mully.

Ten fucken percent? Are you joking man?

Example. I have 5 staff in my spares department to deal with phone calls, walk ins, and general timewasters, that's FIVE. At minimum wage, I have to sell three thousand, two hundred dollars worth of shit at EVERY opening hour at your ten percant margin just to cover them being there. Don't get me started on power, floor space rental for the dept. and many more charges Joe Blogs has no idea of.

I must be missing something in the maths there. I accept that your costs may be well over 10%, just not that simply.

5x minimum wage is 5 x 12.75 = 63.75/hour.

3200/10 (your margin) = 320/hour - big difference.

Divide that by 5 and you get $64 - perhaps you took the factor of 5 twice?

Richard

[Virago]

Sorry, I meant plus GST.

Landed cost plus 10% was the figure I was suggesting.

There is as always a strong belief in this country that any sort of margin added by retailers is a rip-off, and is perceived as pure profit. The "I'm generous - I'll tolerate 10% maximum" approach is quite common.

The reality is that even with 100% or more added, the retailers struggle to cover wages and overheads. Some give up the unequal struggle.

If you think it can be done at 10%, go ahead and try it - put your money where your mouth is.

The reality is that retailers CAN'T compete with overseas internet sales - to expect them to do so is short-sighted. As mentioned earlier, bike shops aren't closing in increasing numbers because they're sick of making too much money...

[ynot slow]

I'll chuck another retail scenario out there,years ago travel agents were paid commission from airlines,was 10%,then Air NZ decided to cut to 5% domestic fares,then same with international and others followed.Roll on and next to nothing from them,internet trading at it's best.

Years ago in the USA at a world conference indusrty people stated to make money the internet,meant agents were to come advisers and charge as such for their product knowledge,the client could either book their own trip or use agent.After a few horror internet trips people are going back to agents.

[onearmedbandit]

This thread has taken an interesting swing. I started it as a gripe to the importers/wholesalers, not the retailers. I think most of us accept that motorcycle dealers are not making millions, but on a $620 seat cowl someone is making too much out of the NZ market, even taking into account the small numbers of sales compared to other markets.

On a part like the seat cowl, I'd expect the dealer to have maybe 20-30% in it, if that was the case then it would be cost the retailer around $480. I bought one for $210. Maybe I'm off on my margin, maybe the dealer needs 100% margin. So they are charged $310. I bought it from a retail store in America (where it was also imported into) for $210.

So what gives? Are the dealers here charging a lot more margin to cover operating costs that (as WT pointed out) we don't know about so they can keep the doors open, or are the importers creaming, sorry gouging the market here?

[Woodman]

So what gives? Are the dealers here charging a lot more margin to cover operating costs that (as WT pointed out) we don't know about so they can keep the doors open, or are the importers creaming, sorry gouging the market here?

I think what you will find is that the nz distributors/bikeshops just aren't big enough customers with the overseas suppliers to warrant a good buy price. Do you think that a small bike shop in nz gets the same price as a big one or a chain somewhere overseas?
Maybe the bike shops need to get together here(maybe they are already) and start up some sort of buying group using one account or something and leverage off it, maybe even bypass the importers/distributors. If the suppliers don't play ball then they could lose all of NZs business.

[Smifffy]

Mully.

Ten fucken percent? Are you joking man?

Example. I have 5 staff in my spares department to deal with phone calls, walk ins, and general timewasters, that's FIVE. At minimum wage, I have to sell three thousand, two hundred dollars worth of shit at EVERY opening hour at your ten percant margin just to cover them being there. Don't get me started on power, floor space rental for the dept. and many more charges Joe Blogs has no idea of.

10% is the price that Mully, and indeed myself would consider it not worth being the hassle to arrange our own shipping etc. If I understand correctly, he is talking 10% over the landed price (so including shipping cost etc).

I think he is also talking about this as a model for the things that are just outrageously expensive here, not the everyday stuff that your parts guys already do. We are talking about the occasional person that takes a lot of pride in their ride, and might be looking for an exhaust, or maybe some fancy luggage, rearsets etc.

You could either clip their ticket for %10, maybe the market would even stand 15-20%, wait for the crap to arrive, call em, tell 'em it's here, and maybe give 'em a quote to fit it.

Or you could call 'em a fuckwit who doesn't understand the cost of being in business and sit back while they order all of their shit online, and wonder why they now refuse to do any business at all with someone who calls them a fuckwit.

In my travels throughout the USA not a single employee of any business would call anyone a fuckwit, or even pretend they might be one. Without exception they went out of their way to make the customer feel valued. It's attitudes like the one displayed here that go a long way to driving consumers elsewhere.

[Ocean1]

I think what you will find is that the nz distributors/bikeshops just aren't big enough customers with the overseas suppliers to warrant a good buy price.

But individual internet purchasers are? It doesn't add up, dude.

What is true is that anyone with a permanent address is paying a fair wack in overheads. The principal importer is in the best position to manage costs, (wholesale operations generally have lower overheads) but they're also better protected by their traditional market access monopoly... Until recently.

[steve_t]

There is as always a strong belief in this country that any sort of margin added by retailers is a rip-off, and is perceived as pure profit. The "I'm generous - I'll tolerate 10% maximum" approach is quite common.

The reality is that even with 100% or more added, the retailers struggle to cover wages and overheads. Some give up the unequal struggle.

If you think it can be done at 10%, go ahead and try it - put your money where your mouth is.

The reality is that retailers CAN'T compete with overseas internet sales - to expect them to do so is short-sighted. As mentioned earlier, bike shops aren't closing in increasing numbers because they're sick of making too much money...


10% is the price that Mully, and indeed myself would consider it not worth being the hassle to arrange our own shipping etc. If I understand correctly, he is talking 10% over the landed price (so including shipping cost etc).


LOL :innocent:

[Ocean1]

or maybe some fancy luggage, rearsets etc.

Good example. I happen to know what it costs to manufacture hard luggage type assemblies and I've recently purchased a whole slew of Givi hardware.

Man did I feel shafted. What's more the distributor didn't deliver.

[ukusa]

The reality is that retailers CAN'T compete with overseas internet sales - to expect them to do so is short-sighted. As mentioned earlier, bike shops aren't closing in increasing numbers because they're sick of making too much money...

I don't no what the actual markups in retail are, but the differences in retail cost here & overseas are too huge to be ignored. It's all well & good to say "support local business" etc etc. but in this country we get screwed on a shitload of things because we're a small country of 4.4 million. Wages are shit, costs are high, it's in our nature to look for a bargain.

If survival in the business means price, then the importers must be accountable, or they'll end up killing their own business. Then we'll end up buying all our shit overseas.

[ukusa]

I think what you will find is that the nz distributors/bikeshops just aren't big enough customers with the overseas suppliers to warrant a good buy price. Do you think that a small bike shop in nz gets the same price as a big one or a chain somewhere overseas?
Maybe the bike shops need to get together here(maybe they are already) and start up some sort of buying group using one account or something and leverage off it, maybe even bypass the importers/distributors. If the suppliers don't play ball then they could lose all of NZs business.

nicely put!

[Smifffy]

Ok so maybe fixed percentages aren't such a great idea, let's use OABs numbers to see how this could work.


His seat cowl cost him $210 to land. I'm picking that if he had gone to local shop, and they said "No problem we can get you one in for $295 (more than 10%) we need 50% deposit and the rest on pick up. There's a warranty if it's defective, but if you decide you don't want it for any other reason there will be a charge to return it.

I'd say odds are pretty good he would hand over his credit card, you could order the gizmo online, he would get his part, you'd take a cut and everyone would be happy.

I'd wager that there would have been precious few stores in NZ that would have had that item on hand anyway.

Of course there will still be those that would want to save themselves $85, and good luck to them.

[Smifffy]

LOL :innocent:

Wages & overheads are wholly applicable when stock is held. When it is ordered in from the wholesaler on request, the only value that is being added is the retailers connection with the wholesaler.

If the consumer can source the item from somewhere cheaper than either the wholesaler or retailer can provide it then that particular supply chain is not adding any value at all, and in fact it becomes a liability.

The public holiday surcharges being charged at restaurants etc this week, is another example of greedy NZ businesses trying to gouge the consumer IMO.

[steve_t]

Ok so maybe fixed percentages aren't such a great idea

And in reality, it's not a fixed percentage mark up. Actual dollar margins are applied often, especially for high value goods.


Wages & overheads are wholly applicable when stock is held. When it is ordered in from the wholesaler on request, the only value that is being added is the retailers connection with the wholesaler.

If the consumer can source the item from somewhere cheaper than either the wholesaler or retailer can provide it then that particular supply chain is not adding any value at all, and in fact it becomes a liability.

The public holiday surcharges being charged at restaurants etc this week, is another example of greedy NZ businesses trying to gouge the consumer IMO.

I agree with the holiday surcharge being ridiculous especially those that are charging it for 4 days over Christmas and 4 days over new years! However, it's interesting that you make an allowance for wages to be considered wrt stock on hand at bike shops, but the time and a half plus day in lieu for employees working at cafes and restaurants don't get the same :innocent:

[Woodman]

But individual internet purchasers are? It doesn't add up, dude.

What is true is that anyone with a permanent address is paying a fair wack in overheads. The principal importer is in the best position to manage costs, (wholesale operations generally have lower overheads) but they're also better protected by their traditional market access monopoly... Until recently.

I wasn't talking about the places where we buy goods online, I was talking one supply channel or more back from them, possibly even the manufacturer.

Retail margins are very rarely a cost plus exercize nowadays, its generally based on demand, competition, availability, volume etc. Of course cost comes into it, but depending on time and circumstances you have to sell stuff with very skinny margins just to compete.

[Virago]

I don't no what the actual markups in retail are, but the differences in retail cost here & overseas are too huge to be ignored. It's all well & good to say "support local business" etc etc. but in this country we get screwed on a shitload of things because we're a small country of 4.4 million. Wages are shit, costs are high, it's in our nature to look for a bargain.

If survival in the business means price, then the importers must be accountable, or they'll end up killing their own business. Then we'll end up buying all our shit overseas.

We're a small country with a small population, tucked away in a dusty forgotten corner of the world. The cost of putting a range of good on our shop shelves is always going to be higher than elsewhere. On top of that, we have to pay 15% GST on our retail purchases.

Let me put it this way. Rural petrol stations have always had to charge more for fuel - their supply costs are higher, their turnover is lower. The rural locals learnt that, where possible, they should fill their cars more often when they went to "town" - as you said, it's in our nature to look for a bargain and to save money where possible. When the local station eventually closed, the locals suddenly realised that they no longer have choice, and they now MUST go to town for petrol - they often waste petrol making the trip to do so...

So who was at fault - the local station for "failing to compete", or the canny rural locals who effectively cut their own supply?

The NZ retail market is no different. Sure, you can get a better deal shopping on the 'net, but once the bike shops have closed, there will be nowhere to try that helmet on for size before buying on the 'net - as many happily admit to doing.

[Smifffy]

And in reality, it's not a fixed percentage mark up. Actual dollar margins are applied often, especially for high value goods.



I agree with the holiday surcharge being ridiculous especially those that are charging it for 4 days over Christmas and 4 days over new years! However, it's interesting that you make an allowance for wages to be considered wrt stock on hand at bike shops, but the time and a half plus day in lieu for employees working at cafes and restaurants don't get the same :innocent:

I worked New Years day & the day after, and will get a time and a half plus a lieu day for eac day, as will everybody else who was there with me. I can guarantee that our customers will pay no more for the product we manufactured on those days than the product we manufacture on any other day of the year.

Management made a commercial decision not to shut down on those days, they can't expect their customers to pay for that decision.

[fossil]

I just got two helmets for the prcie of 1 from germany including post of $40 NZD

so a grand total of $521 for two helmets of which one here cost $600

I tried to support local dealers but the price difference was to good
and yes I had tried them on here etc

I suppose you went into a dealer to try one on to get the right size or did you take a guess?
I hope its right or otherwise you aren't protected properly and wasted your money.

[ducatilover]

I tend to buy offshore stuff. I'll do oil filters and oil here, I get my brake pads from Australia and the rest from the UK/US at the moment. :innocent: Massive savings. I should just bugger off to the US.

[MarkH]

Was just reading this:
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/money/money-matters/retailer-tax-plea-to-fight-internet/story-fn300aev-1225981236682

Maybe they wouldn't need to make as much money if they stopped smoking crack?


There were two options to create a fairer marketplace - force online, offshore retailers to pay GST and duty, or eliminate those charges for traditional face-to-face stores.

WTF? Neither of those things have a snowball chance in hell of happening! The Aussie Govt isn't about to scrap GST and they certainly have no power to 'force' online retailers in other countries collect tax for them. I'm surprised that these retailers are still in business if these are the half baked ideas that they can come up with.
If those dumb fuckers had half a brain between them they would look at what countries like NZ do differently - here we get charged GST on goods we import if the goods are worth more than NZ$400, in Aussie they don't get charged GST unless the goods are worth over AU$1000. That means that imported goods don't get GST charged on them in Aussie unless they cost over 3 times as much as is the case in NZ. If the Aussie Govt changed the rules so that any goods privately imported that were worth over AU$300 would get GST charged on them then that would help Aussie retailers tremendously. The retailers have to be as thick as pig shit to not be able to work out that they should demand that - why wouldn't the Aussie government be willing to consider charging more money?

[onearmedbandit]

I understand what is said about the size of the NZ market and it's buying power in comparison to larger markets, but what about this example.

Samsung 5 Series 40" LED LCD TV

Harvey Norman advertised price - $1698 (http://www.harveynorman.co.nz/samsung-40-101cmv-full-hd-led-television.html)
Target America - $1563 (http://www.target.com/gp/detail.html/184-6892913-8041008?asin=B0036WT48S&AFID=shopping_df&LNM=|B0036WT48S&CPNG=electronics&ci_src=13736960&ci_sku=B0036WT48S&ref=tgt_adv_XSC10001)

Granted I did find them for about $1200 on sites offering special deals, but so have HN (I am still involved in this industry). So how come we can be so close on TV prices?

[Smifffy]

I understand what is said about the size of the NZ market and it's buying power in comparison to larger markets, but what about this example.

Samsung 5 Series 40" LED LCD TV

Harvey Norman advertised price - $1698 (http://www.harveynorman.co.nz/samsung-40-101cmv-full-hd-led-television.html)
Target America - $1563 (http://www.target.com/gp/detail.html/184-6892913-8041008?asin=B0036WT48S&AFID=shopping_df&LNM=|B0036WT48S&CPNG=electronics&ci_src=13736960&ci_sku=B0036WT48S&ref=tgt_adv_XSC10001)

Granted I did find them for about $1200 on sites offering special deals, but so have HN (I am still involved in this industry). So how come we can be so close on TV prices?

You are forgetting that Harvey Norman don't have staff or overheads, nor fuckwit customers who expect to look at the picture on the TV before deciding whether or not to buy.

Harvey Norman also don't have to pay their staff to answer the phone or spend time with customers who are just timewasters.

Maybe it's just a massive conspiracy and they don't do that for Tv's because the US ones run on a different voltage and wouldn't work here without modification.

Then again maybe the industry is right, and now we the consumer have no choice, there are no Mum & Dad appliance stores left anymore - you are forced to get your Tv from a national chain retailer such as Harvey or Noel, or Bonds etc.

:innocent:

[Woodman]

I understand what is said about the size of the NZ market and it's buying power in comparison to larger markets, but what about this example.

Samsung 5 Series 40" LED LCD TV

Harvey Norman advertised price - $1698 (http://www.harveynorman.co.nz/samsung-40-101cmv-full-hd-led-television.html)
Target America - $1563 (http://www.target.com/gp/detail.html/184-6892913-8041008?asin=B0036WT48S&AFID=shopping_df&LNM=|B0036WT48S&CPNG=electronics&ci_src=13736960&ci_sku=B0036WT48S&ref=tgt_adv_XSC10001)

Granted I did find them for about $1200 on sites offering special deals, but so have HN (I am still involved in this industry). So how come we can be so close on TV prices?

Harvey Norman is a trans tasman company so they have huge buying power when you combine ozzie and new Zealand.

[BMWST?]

As the Government moves to create more and more free trade agreements the possibility for excise and tax rules to limit imports gets less and less.

The Government wont be doing anything that limits the imports - and nor should it in a free market economy.

he didnt say imports will be limited,just that ALL imprts should pay their share of gst etc

[steve_t]

I understand what is said about the size of the NZ market and it's buying power in comparison to larger markets, but what about this example.

Samsung 5 Series 40" LED LCD TV

Harvey Norman advertised price - $1698 (http://www.harveynorman.co.nz/samsung-40-101cmv-full-hd-led-television.html)
Target America - $1563 (http://www.target.com/gp/detail.html/184-6892913-8041008?asin=B0036WT48S&AFID=shopping_df&LNM=|B0036WT48S&CPNG=electronics&ci_src=13736960&ci_sku=B0036WT48S&ref=tgt_adv_XSC10001)

Granted I did find them for about $1200 on sites offering special deals, but so have HN (I am still involved in this industry). So how come we can be so close on TV prices?

Powerseller NYC - $1237 incl free shipping within the continental US (https://powersellernyc.com/product/view/Samsung-UN40C7000-40inch-240Hz-1080p-3D-Ready-LED-TV-26041.htmll) This with exchange rate comes to approx NZ$1650

I guess we get the "benefit" of large Australian chain stores like Hardly Normal and JB Hifi driving down prices effectively buying from the manufacturer for a population of 24m people

Edit: Damn you Woodman for stealing my idea :rofl:

[onearmedbandit]

I'll add that the company I work for is wholly NZ owned and we can also match those TV prices.

[BMWST?]

I think what you will find is that the nz distributors/bikeshops just aren't big enough customers with the overseas suppliers to warrant a good buy price. Do you think that a small bike shop in nz gets the same price as a big one or a chain somewhere overseas?
Maybe the bike shops need to get together here(maybe they are already) and start up some sort of buying group using one account or something and leverage off it, maybe even bypass the importers/distributors. If the suppliers don't play ball then they could lose all of NZs business.

what? just say its a kawasaki shop..if you bypass "kawasaki NZ" just who do you buy your kawasakis from??

[Woodman]

what? just say its a kawasaki shop..if you bypass "kawasaki NZ" just who do you buy your kawasakis from??

The shops would obviously keep their allegiances re bike brand, but accessories, consumables etc is what I was referring too.

[Mully Clown]

I'll add that the company I work for is wholly NZ owned and we can also match those TV prices.

But who is bringing them into the country and do they have a monopoly? IngramMicro for example is a very large global operation and isn't just covering The shops here.

Anyone have a Honda car? They're actually a proper Honda subsidiary unlike the bikes. Be interesting to know if the experiences are any better. http://world.honda.com/group/NewZealand/index.html

[BMWST?]

The shops would obviously keep their allegiances re bike brand, but accessories, consumables etc is what I was referring too.

sorry i thought the main discussion was oem parts!

[onearmedbandit]

I'll add that the company I work for is wholly NZ owned and we can also match those TV prices.

Sorry forgot to expand. If it wasn't for the competition in pricing offered by the buying power that the likes of HN and Co have, do you think NZ pricing of TV's would be as competitive as it currently is? I highly doubt it. So it's about time that the importers woke up to the situation that NZ motorcycle retailers are faced with and realign their pricing, or make enough fuss to their head suppliers that unless things are changed their product will no longer be officially supported in NZ. Because that's what I'm hearing is happening...

[steve_t]

Sorry forgot to expand. If it wasn't for the competition in pricing offered by the buying power that the likes of HN and Co have, do you think NZ pricing of TV's would be as competitive as it currently is? I highly doubt it. So it's about time that the importers woke up to the situation that NZ motorcycle retailers are faced with and realign their pricing, or make enough fuss to their head suppliers that unless things are changed their product will no longer be officially supported in NZ. Because that's what I'm hearing is happening...

Agree, however, is there evidence that wholesalers supplying NZ retailers are minting it?

[onearmedbandit]

Agree, however, is there evidence that wholesalers supplying NZ retailers are minting it?

Probably not, but someone somewhere is saying, 'ah fuck it, NZ ain't getting that price, no siree.'

[steve_t]

Probably not, but someone somewhere is saying, 'ah fuck it, NZ ain't getting that price, no siree.'

How do our bike gear and parts compare to Australian prices?

[rwh]

Probably not, but someone somewhere is saying, 'ah fuck it, NZ ain't getting that price, no siree.'

It's always possible that the wholesalers are simply so badly mismanaged that they have to slap on a huge margin to make a barely adequate profit ...

Richard

[MarkH]

But who is bringing them into the country and do they have a monopoly?

Ahhh, someone understands what is going on here!

When a company has the monopoly on OEM parts they can charge what they like and screw over the consumer.

I bought an exhaust gasket for US$12 instead of NZ$40 so that I would have that part for less than half the money. I agree with the concept of supporting the local businesses, but I don't have the spare money to waste on paying >twice as much for the same item. I wish I could afford to be more generous to the local bike shops and other charities - but I just can't. I know it isn't their fault, I am sure that they are getting charged more from their suppliers than I am paying to get the part from overseas. I don't blame the bike shops, but I still can't afford to throw my money away supporting them.

I've bought motorcycle accessories & parts, camping equipment, leather preservative, books, DVDs, electronics, rechargeable batteries, clothing, and many more things from overseas. Sometimes it is cheaper, sometimes I just can't get the same item here in NZ.

I have even joined up with www.shipito.com to get an address in the US of A to have goods sent to from companies that don't sell overseas and also to save a shitload on shipping. They can combine multiple packages into one and send it, I've already saved hundreds in shipping so far.

[onearmedbandit]

How many Sony importers do you think there are in NZ? Or Samsung? Pioneer? Panasonic? All these importers have a monopoly.

[Smifffy]

How many Sony importers do you think there are in NZ? Or Samsung? Pioneer? Panasonic? All these importers have a monopoly.

Most of those manufacturers will also have global pricing, because they know that somewhere if someone is able to cotton on to parallel importing they will do it, and the manufacturers brand will end up suffering in the long term.

[onearmedbandit]

Most of those manufacturers will also have global pricing, because they know that somewhere if someone is able to cotton on to parallel importing they will do it, and the manufacturers brand will end up suffering in the long term.

Which is what is happening already to our motorcycle market.

Despite where it is happening, I think we all can agree that it is happening, that for some reason we are getting shafted.

[rwh]

How many Sony importers do you think there are in NZ? Or Samsung? Pioneer? Panasonic? All these importers have a monopoly.

I suspect many more tvs are sold than bike parts.

Richard

[onearmedbandit]

I suspect many more tvs are sold than bike parts.

Richard

And I suspect the same is for the American market too...

[Gremlin]

Remember that in some goods, it isn't the brand themselves handling the supply chain logistics.

Some bike shops do buy from overseas for their customers, but generally keep it quiet or don't directly go against the importers, otherwise they couldn't buy from them.

[rwh]

And I suspect the same is for the American market too...

Sure, but the total numbers are much bigger.

Richard

[onearmedbandit]

Sure, but the total numbers are much bigger.

Richard

That was established a few pages back. Regardless of why, NZ retailers are getting fucked over by new competition, and they either need to respond or die. The products all come from the same place.

[White trash]

The spelling
The grammar.
Are you pissed?

Constantly. In fact, today is the first day since Christmas Day that I've been sober. Damn you work.......

[ducatilover]

Constantly. In fact, today is the first day since Christmas Day that I've been sober. Damn you work.......

That's the way! :drinkup::rockon:

[onearmedbandit]

So basically after all this nothing has been explained as to why we pay such exorbitant prices. Other than the old 'smaller market' argument, which in today's global marketplace doesn't hold water. One of two things needs to happen to encourage more spending locally, either the ability to import goods that are sold in NZ needs to be heavily restricted (not going to happen in this day and age) or the importers/etc need to address the discrepancy and balance things up.

Or they could just keep their heads in the sand, continue to shaft those that don't have the desire to look further afield (don't tell me that they are being loyal to NZ retailers, because at 3x the price there is no loyalty incentive from the retailers) and let those that are motivated enough send their orders overseas.

I'll state it again, I know it's not the retailers fault. But it is their responsibility. It's their responsibility to ensure their customer can get a fair deal, it's their responsibility to ensure more people spend with them, it's their responsibility to ensure their doors stay open. It's the way it is. It's not the customers responsibility.

Until such time though, more and more people are looking off shore to make their purchases and saving over 50% on buying locally. Either things change through pro-active means, or they change because their hand was forced...

[steve_t]

So basically after all this nothing has been explained as to why we pay such exorbitant prices. Other than the old 'smaller market' argument, which in today's global marketplace doesn't hold water. One of two things needs to happen to encourage more spending locally, either the ability to import goods that are sold in NZ needs to be heavily restricted (not going to happen in this day and age) or the importers/etc need to address the discrepancy and balance things up.

Or they could just keep their heads in the sand, continue to shaft those that don't have the desire to look further afield (don't tell me that they are being loyal to NZ retailers, because at 3x the price there is no loyalty incentive from the retailers) and let those that are motivated enough send their orders overseas.

I'll state it again, I know it's not the retailers fault. But it is their responsibility. It's their responsibility to ensure their customer can get a fair deal, it's their responsibility to ensure more people spend with them, it's their responsibility to ensure their doors stay open. It's the way it is. It's not the customers responsibility.

Until such time though, more and more people are looking off shore to make their purchases and saving over 50% on buying locally. Either things change through pro-active means, or they change because their hand was forced...

OK, so how do you propose the individual retailer actively seeks to reduce their costs and thus be able to pass on savings to consumers?

[onearmedbandit]

OK, so how do you propose the individual retailer actively seeks to reduce their costs and thus be able to pass on savings to consumers?

Read what I have posted please. I have never stated that the retailers are charging too much because of their own operating costs. The issue appears to lie directly at the feet of the importers. Remember, the places I got my prices from in the States were retail stores as well, with physical locations, overheads, wages, etc etc etc.

So why do I lie the responsibility of it all at the retailers feet? Because they are the ones suffering. They are the ones laying off staff. They are the ones closing up doors. So, what should they do. Moan about buyers not being loyal until the bank forecloses them? Or be proactive about it and force their suppliers to address the situation. Because, ultimately, if the retailers in NZ go down so do the importers.

[steve_t]

Read what I have posted please. I have never stated that the retailers are charging too much because of their own operating costs. The issue appears to lie directly at the feet of the importers. Remember, the places I got my prices from in the States were retail stores as well, with physical locations, overheads, wages, etc etc etc.

So why do I lie the responsibility of it all at the retailers feet? Because they are the ones suffering. They are the ones laying off staff. They are the ones closing up doors. So, what should they do. Moan about buyers not being loyal until the bank forecloses them? Or be proactive about it and force their suppliers to address the situation. Because, ultimately, if the retailers in NZ go down so do the importers.

Sorry, what makes you think I didn't read what you wrote? :blink:
I'm not having a go. I was just genuinely asking how you propose a retailer proactively forces their supplier to address the situation. I can only think that perhaps John from XX Motorcycles could go to his supplier and say "Look, you need to reduce the cost of goods to me so I can reduce the cost to the customers, otherwise they'll just buy from the internet and I'll go out of business and you'll be supplying one less MC shop." I guess there's no harm in asking but I'm skeptical about how effective this approach would be. Any other suggestions?

Edit: Oh I see, you've read my "reduce costs" as reduce 'operating costs' where I was talking about 'costs of goods sold'

[onearmedbandit]

Sorry, what makes you think I didn't read what you wrote? :blink:
I'm not having a go. I was just genuinely asking how you propose a retailer proactively forces their supplier to address the situation. I can only think that perhaps John from XX Motorcycles could go to his supplier and say "Look, you need to reduce the cost of goods to me so I can reduce the cost to the customers, otherwise they'll just buy from the internet and I'll go out of business and you'll be supplying one less MC shop." I guess there's no harm in asking but I'm skeptical about how effective this approach would be. Any other suggestions?

Edit: Oh I see, you've read my "reduce costs" as reduce 'operating costs' where I was talking about 'costs of goods sold'

Yup, my bad, I misread what you meant. Yes I know the chances of it being effective are low, but what other choices do the retailers have available? The friend who I ordered the seat cowl for has stated to me, and in this thread as well, that he will not buy another new Honda from NZ. He paid roughly $24k for that bike, and he'll buy another new bike probably within a couple years. But it won't be a Honda. Well not from NZ anyway.

So no I don't have the magic silver bullet to answer the issue, all I could hope to see happen is that the ledger gets balanced better so that the retailers get better support from their suppliers (and to be honest, I'm mostly referring to OEM parts) so that they can get better support from their customers.

If the situation doesn't change, no dramas for me currently, I'll keep buying from overseas as many others do. But it'll be dramas for those that work in the industry. And I don't want to see these shops close down, I don't want to see these people out of jobs. But I'm not paying 3x the price to ensure that. I live in NZ too, and I get paid NZ wages. I can't afford to spend that much.

[p.dath]

I think there is going to be a market for offline and online retailers for quite some time to come, as they serve different purposes.

Offline retailers provide a place where you can walk in, discuss your needs, seek their input, perhaps look at a couple of different options, and of course that high touch service carries a cost.

When you purchase from an online source its kinda like buying wholesale. You probably already know what you want (you either have a part number, know how to use a fiche, or want something very specific), and more than likely, have the intention of fitting it yourself. Effectively you are buying wholesale.


And of course, you have to expect a price difference from a wholesaler and a retailer.

[wysper]

So does anyone on here actually work for an importer? Or is an importer?

I do, not in the motorcycle industry but in another industry.
There are many costs the end user doesn't see.
For instance,
minimum freight charges (might be one cubic metre or it might be 250kgs)
portage
port storage
insurance
taxes
duties
transport cost between wharf and shipping agent
transport cost from shipping agent to us
there is even a charge per line on invoice!!
and on and on

Many suppliers don't let you purchase one off items, or if they do they put a minimum charge on that. eg it might be $2,500 USD + freight + plus all your govenment taxes and import charges. We have one supplier that our minimum order is a 20ft container.

As an importer we have to project orders out 3 - 6 months in advance. This stock also needs to be paid for before it ships. We are crystal ball gazing. If we make a mistake we have dead stock. If we make a mistake we may not be able to supply a certain product for a long time.

We have had to reduce staff as times are really tough.

We carry the warranty, in most cases our suppliers charge us for "warranty" parts and we pay for labour for repairing goods. The consumer wants longer warranties and to pay less for the product.

We need a certain margin to even survive let alone make a profit and it is well above the 10% that keeps getting thrown around.

As has been said, we have less buying power, smaller numbers and a greater distance to move goods. We try as hard as we can to match US and AUS pricing, but we can't always do it. We are not creaming it.

I agree that the current retail model probably needs looking at. But any answers that mean lower prices for the consumer mean a loss of jobs in most industries as the supply chains get cut. There may not be room for importers/retailers in the supply chain, but the loss of one or the other while making the price lower for the consumer MAY make the consumer worse off in the long run.

[MSTRS]

... Effectively you are buying wholesale.


And of course, you have to expect a price difference from a wholesaler and a retailer.

Huh? If you buy online from an American retail store, how do you figure that?

Locally, the importer/distributor effectively sets the price on an item for sale in NZ. They get the item/s from the manufacturer, who isn't going to sell them to anyone else. The manufacturer sells to a single distributor. Individual bike shops (eg) can't source outside the importer and are not going to get parts at prices significantly less than any other shop does. Yes, they could get together in an effort to force the importer to drop the wholesale price, but how likely is that? Esp when the importer knows that the shops are unable to effectively buy stock any other way.

[Robert Taylor]

I just imported some stuff from the states for my bike and a friends. While I made some decent savings on my stuff, it was the part I got for my friend that blew me away. Honda want to charge over $600 for the seat cover for a 2009 CBR1000RR. That's $600+ for a piece of plastic smaller than the cover of a magazine. Yes it comes painted and with decals. However I bought the same part for him from America for US$164 (NZ$210), add on shipping, customs and GST it still came out at being under half price.

Seriously. It's a fucking joke. I know it's not the dealers who set the price (thanks Blue Wing) but $600 for a fucking piece of plastic? After this experience (took less than 2wks to get here right on xmas time) I know I'll be looking overseas first. Sure I'll still look at NZ suppliers, but I won't be wasting any time if I find a similar situation to what I've just experienced.

So yes Robert Taylor and other staunch supporters of buying locally, I'd love to keep my money in NZ, keeping NZ'ers in jobs, keeping the NZ economy ticking along, but if it stays like this the only NZ companies I'll be supporting will be couriers.

Im certainly not in disagreement about the huge price disparities and there are many reasons both non justifiable and also justifiable. The day is rapidly approaching where there will be less middlemen clipping the ticket on the way through. According to a new NZ herald article 1.2 to 1.3 billion is spent online on goods by New Zealanders and at least 17% is spent overseas, primarily to US and Australian companies.
If gst was charged on EVERYTHING entering NZ the Government would accrue an extra 500 million in tax revenues, heck they sure need it. Also NZ customs are tightening up on invoice fraud i.e revaluing the goods at less than true cost, and the penalties will be severe. Those are positive moves towards a more level playing field.

[Robert Taylor]

Huh? If you buy online from an American retail store, how do you figure that?

Locally, the importer/distributor effectively sets the price on an item for sale in NZ. They get the item/s from the manufacturer, who isn't going to sell them to anyone else. Individual bike shops (eg) are not going to get parts at prices less than any other shop does. Yes, they could get together in an effort to force the importer to drop the wholesale price, but how likely is that? Esp when the importer knows that the shops are unable to effectively buy stock any other way.

The reality is that many wholeslaers have less margin in their products than dealers at suggested retail. It would be a misconception to think its a bed of roses!

[Robert Taylor]

So does anyone on here actually work for an importer? Or is an importer?

I do, not in the motorcycle industry but in another industry.
There are many costs the end user doesn't see.
For instance,
minimum freight charges (might be one cubic metre or it might be 250kgs)
portage
port storage
insurance
taxes
duties
transport cost between wharf and shipping agent
transport cost from shipping agent to us
there is even a charge per line on invoice!!
and on and on

Many suppliers don't let you purchase one off items, or if they do they put a minimum charge on that. eg it might be $2,500 USD + freight + plus all your govenment taxes and import charges. We have one supplier that our minimum order is a 20ft container.

As an importer we have to project orders out 3 - 6 months in advance. This stock also needs to be paid for before it ships. We are crystal ball gazing. If we make a mistake we have dead stock. If we make a mistake we may not be able to supply a certain product for a long time.

We have had to reduce staff as times are really tough.

We carry the warranty, in most cases our suppliers charge us for "warranty" parts and we pay for labour for repairing goods. The consumer wants longer warranties and to pay less for the product.

We need a certain margin to even survive let alone make a profit and it is well above the 10% that keeps getting thrown around.

As has been said, we have less buying power, smaller numbers and a greater distance to move goods. We try as hard as we can to match US and AUS pricing, but we can't always do it. We are not creaming it.

I agree that the current retail model probably needs looking at. But any answers that mean lower prices for the consumer mean a loss of jobs in most industries as the supply chains get cut. There may not be room for importers/retailers in the supply chain, but the loss of one or the other while making the price lower for the consumer MAY make the consumer worse off in the long run.

Very very well said!

[MSTRS]

The reality is that many wholeslaers have less margin in their products than dealers at suggested retail. It would be a misconception to think its a bed of roses!

True. So it comes down to what the overseas suppliers charge for goods coming to NZ for eventual retail sale?
Otherwise, how can a US store sell an item for a third of the price a NZ retailer does?

[Robert Taylor]

True. So it comes down to what the overseas suppliers charge for goods coming to NZ for eventual retail sale?
Otherwise, how can a US store sell an item for a third of the price a NZ retailer does?

The reasons are manyfold and include much better buying power, very high stock turn and very low margins. Also our strong dollar against their relatively weak dollar distorts the situation somewhat. Also if you are not paying a whole raft of clearance and port fees plus gst on everything the price is not balooning further. Its complex if you are a distributor, much moreso than people realise.
Thats not justifying what is very unsatisfactory with a lot of pricing though.
The post by an importer that I agreed with states their realities very very well and its all too easy to unfairly malign importers for being bad greedy capitalists when like many they are struggling in an environment that is not healthy and also is not a level playing field for them. Quite the opposite.
Overseas internet sales are a reality and my business for one has adjusted to it, but my gripes are that everyone should be paying the same entry charges and gst and those who are fraudulently getting invoices underwritten should be nailed for it big time. Thats the direction the Government and NZ Customs is heading in and not before time. This will save a few jobs for ordinary kiwis, a reality that is kind of important.

[Smifffy]

It still doesn't explain why the local store couldn't order gear from the online store as a value added service to the customer and eliminate all of those charges, that at the end of the day do nobody any good.

[steve_t]

It still doesn't explain why the local store couldn't order gear from the online store as a value added service to the customer and eliminate all of those charges, that at the end of the day do nobody any good.

I'd say their contract with the importer would prevent them from doing this

[HungusMaximist]

So does anyone on here actually work for an importer? Or is an importer?

I do, not in the motorcycle industry but in another industry.
There are many costs the end user doesn't see.
For instance,
minimum freight charges (might be one cubic metre or it might be 250kgs)
portage
port storage
insurance
taxes
duties
transport cost between wharf and shipping agent
transport cost from shipping agent to us
there is even a charge per line on invoice!!
and on and on

Many suppliers don't let you purchase one off items, or if they do they put a minimum charge on that. eg it might be $2,500 USD + freight + plus all your govenment taxes and import charges. We have one supplier that our minimum order is a 20ft container.

As an importer we have to project orders out 3 - 6 months in advance. This stock also needs to be paid for before it ships. We are crystal ball gazing. If we make a mistake we have dead stock. If we make a mistake we may not be able to supply a certain product for a long time.

We have had to reduce staff as times are really tough.

We carry the warranty, in most cases our suppliers charge us for "warranty" parts and we pay for labour for repairing goods. The consumer wants longer warranties and to pay less for the product.

We need a certain margin to even survive let alone make a profit and it is well above the 10% that keeps getting thrown around.

As has been said, we have less buying power, smaller numbers and a greater distance to move goods. We try as hard as we can to match US and AUS pricing, but we can't always do it. We are not creaming it.

I agree that the current retail model probably needs looking at. But any answers that mean lower prices for the consumer mean a loss of jobs in most industries as the supply chains get cut. There may not be room for importers/retailers in the supply chain, but the loss of one or the other while making the price lower for the consumer MAY make the consumer worse off in the long run.

ausm.......

[MarkH]

The post by an importer that I agreed with states their realities very very well and its all too easy to unfairly malign importers for being bad greedy capitalists when like many they are struggling in an environment that is not healthy and also is not a level playing field for them. Quite the opposite.

I'd certainly agree that not all importers are greedy and that many are very fair on their pricing. However some ARE greedy and charge a ridiculous price for the goods they import. There are items that I have bought in NZ cheaper than I could import them from the US. There are other items that I have bought from overseas that would still be under half the NZ price even if I got charged GST.

I understand the desire for a level playing field, but I have imported goods worth less than US$20 (with world wide free shipping) from overseas and there is no way that customs should bother stopping such a cheap item to charge GST on it. Obviously fraudulent invoices are illegal and if customs find any incoming package with a stated value that is clearly wrong then they can take appropriate action on that.

One thing that I am not willing to accept is that neither the importer nor retailer are overcharging when the goods cost over twice as much in NZ as the landed cost when buying from overseas. The TV example posted in this thread illustrates that goods can be sold at a competitive price and even 20% dearer in NZ than importing wouldn't be terrible. But 2x or 2.5x or 3x or above the overseas price just seems a bit excessive. When an importer brings goods in by the container the shipping costs are WAY lower than me bringing goods in by airmail so if it is still under half the cost to me to import the goods myself then someone somewhere is creaming it!

The biggest cost difference I can recall is where I paid 25% of the NZ price to get a new product from the US including air freight - had I paid GST it would have still been 3.5x as dear to buy locally. I wouldn't like to be a retailer buying from that NZ importer!

[Smifffy]

We saw an example of supply chain mathematics earlier in the thread. You need to turn over at least 3 grand an hour just to pay 5 people minimum wage before you even consider your other overheads.

So of course with the low volumes in NZ you need to set your prices accordingly.

[Robert Taylor]

It still doesn't explain why the local store couldn't order gear from the online store as a value added service to the customer and eliminate all of those charges, that at the end of the day do nobody any good.

Its almost certain that their buy price would be the same as a private buyer. There would have to be a LOT of volume to justify any better price than essentially a one off or less orders than just a retail shop in the States. Also if you are a commercial operator you are a magnet for customs interest and therefore charges, thats part of the unlevel playing field that I keep eluding to

[Blackflagged]

Customs Clearance is one. No charge for private individuals, around $120 for businesses, on each package that attracts Gst..Work that out as a % on a $500 item.

Ps While i think of it. Anyone that can do cheap small package Customs clearance pls PM Me :-)

[Reckless]

It still doesn't explain why the local store couldn't order gear from the online store as a value added service to the customer and eliminate all of those charges, that at the end of the day do nobody any good.

Rumor has it this was being done by a Auckland Ktm dealer? And I say its Hearsay but the dealership is no longer and I heard Ktm have tightened up the whole shebang! But its a sad day that the markups are so high their dealers find it better to buy retail from overseas?

Anyway enough of the nonfactual?
Everything I read here makes sense from one side or the other? I'd just like to point out its not up to the buying public to clean up your industry or be made to feel guilty because he is not loyal by having to pay twice the value for the same goods from NZ!
You can keep trying to create a captive market or fix what's here now. The retailers need to club together and protest the importers, the importers need to line up with them and protest the govt. From what I read here the whole thing needs a good shake up. Shops are closing and people are loosing their jobs there must be a better way, its up to you to find it.
But stop blaming Joe public for spending his hard earned cash as wisely as he can. Up to the point he feels ripped off, purchasers will always vote with their feet even if the shop gives damn good service. It just doesn't make sense to us, as 99% of the time we are buying retail overseas and its hard to believe that the local Honda or Kawasaki dealer in say California has such a huge turnover, lower rent and lower wages that he can sell for so much less at retail. Nobody is going to pay $1500 for a pipe they can get for $500 or $600 for a cowl they can get for under $300, end of story!

Let me also point out every-time we buy from overseas we are setting up relationships! I email my guy directly now, get pricing and a deal sorted out then use the pay thingy! They know me and I know and trust them. You just reply to the last email he sent you, it has all your purchases and dealings attached, even if your guy has gone, the next guy can see you are an existing customer. It becomes easy, actually easier than buying from NZ and I only do it 1-2 times a year? In business even in NZ we are often not meeting the people we deal with. If this is happening to everyone that buys offshore, bloody hell you guys have a tough road to ride to get your buying public back. The longer you leave it the worse it will get!!

IMHO its up to you guys to fix your own house not the poor sod who has to save for 3 months to buy overseas for his pipe rather than saving for 6 months to buy here!

I don't have the answer, I'm not close enough, you guys are the experts within your own industry. I do try and remain loyal and buy in NZ like most of us here.
I don't want to get into a scrap with anyone but that seems to be the feeling from a purchasers point of view??

[rwh]

We saw an example of supply chain mathematics earlier in the thread. You need to turn over at least 3 grand an hour just to pay 5 people minimum wage before you even consider your other overheads.

So of course with the low volumes in NZ you need to set your prices accordingly.

I saw that stated - I never saw the maths.

Richard

[imdying]

His seat cowl cost him $210 to land. I'm picking that if he had gone to local shop, and they said "No problem we can get you one in for $295 (more than 10%) we need 50% deposit and the rest on pick up. There's a warranty if it's defective, but if you decide you don't want it for any other reason there will be a charge to return it.

I'd say odds are pretty good he would hand over his credit card, you could order the gizmo online, he would get his part, you'd take a cut and everyone would be happy.You are actually right on the money. I had the credit card in my hand, if he had of said $300 (I knew the $210 delivered price already) I would've paid my $90 premium and swiped it then and there.

I'm sure that the level of "premium I'll pay for being in the arse end of the world" is different for everybody, and some would've wanted to save the $90, and some would've paid another $150 for it. It does however seem unlikely that paying 3 times as much would drive away all but the upper most percentile of cusomters (who probably don't even ask how much, just when can I have it, and I'd put $100 on the yanks getting it to me before Blue Wing have even ordered it).

My assumption is that either:
- Blue Wing are rapists
- Honda Japan have no love for Blue Wing

Chances of finding out who is taking the big slice of pie, 0%.

[jasonu]

So does anyone on here actually work for an importer? Or is an importer?

I do, not in the motorcycle industry but in another industry.
There are many costs the end user doesn't see.
For instance,
minimum freight charges (might be one cubic metre or it might be 250kgs)
portage
port storage
insurance
taxes
duties
transport cost between wharf and shipping agent
transport cost from shipping agent to us
there is even a charge per line on invoice!!
and on and on

Many suppliers don't let you purchase one off items, or if they do they put a minimum charge on that. eg it might be $2,500 USD + freight + plus all your govenment taxes and import charges. We have one supplier that our minimum order is a 20ft container.

As an importer we have to project orders out 3 - 6 months in advance. This stock also needs to be paid for before it ships. We are crystal ball gazing. If we make a mistake we have dead stock. If we make a mistake we may not be able to supply a certain product for a long time.

We have had to reduce staff as times are really tough.

We carry the warranty, in most cases our suppliers charge us for "warranty" parts and we pay for labour for repairing goods. The consumer wants longer warranties and to pay less for the product.

We need a certain margin to even survive let alone make a profit and it is well above the 10% that keeps getting thrown around.

As has been said, we have less buying power, smaller numbers and a greater distance to move goods. We try as hard as we can to match US and AUS pricing, but we can't always do it. We are not creaming it.

I agree that the current retail model probably needs looking at. But any answers that mean lower prices for the consumer mean a loss of jobs in most industries as the supply chains get cut. There may not be room for importers/retailers in the supply chain, but the loss of one or the other while making the price lower for the consumer MAY make the consumer worse off in the long run.

Just curious. Assuming your item is being sold to retailers, how much more, in
%age, would I be paying for it compaired to the price if I went on line and got it from overseas myself?

[jasonu]

We saw an example of supply chain mathematics earlier in the thread. You need to turn over at least 3 grand an hour just to pay 5 people minimum wage before you even consider your other overheads.

So of course with the low volumes in NZ you need to set your prices accordingly.

These figures were later challenged and as far as I can see, the challenge was not disputed.

[onearmedbandit]

Another point of interest, had imdying purchased the cowl for $620, how much of that money would've stayed in NZ? By buying overseas we left more money in NZ I'd wager, to be spent locally.

[steve_t]

Another point of interest, had imdying purchased the cowl for $620, how much of that money would've stayed in NZ? By buying overseas we left more money in NZ I'd wager, to be spent locally.

I'd have imagined it would be approx the same amount leaving our shores

[monkey99]

the other thing is that if your particular brand or model is not supported by the distributor, you are fucked, pretty much. Very difficult getting parts for (say) a VFR400 NC30 or any classic SOHC Honda from the local dealer. The good news is there are specialists who can, and do, help.


Giz a DM with your info on Honda RVF VFR specialists... still trying to get educated people on to my bike (RVF NC35)

Cheers

[Mully Clown]

I'll do some research later but does anyone happen to know which bike manufacturers supply directly into NZ?

[wysper]

Just curious. Assuming your item is being sold to retailers, how much more, in
%age, would I be paying for it compaired to the price if I went on line and got it from overseas myself?

Thats really hard to say. We try to keep our retail prices in line with what it would cost you to buy the item at retail overseas and freight it into NZ. However, often it is not possible for us.

You have to keep in mind that the whole of NZ is smaller than many cities overseas. Economies of scale really do play a part, as much as people seem not to like to hear. Also NZ importers have next to zero clout with suppliers as we are so small a client to them. So it is all very well to say that we should get tough with our suppliers, but when you consider that a years worth of orders for us might constitute just a monthly order from other of there international clients. So if we complain about the cost of the goods, it is not like they would miss the sales. We might hold our own on a sales per capita basis, but it is a drop in the bucket to global sales.

There are many US companies or companies that their main market is the US that sell more to the US than to the rest of the world combined.

Just some thoughts.

[Ocean1]

We saw an example of supply chain mathematics earlier in the thread. You need to turn over at least 3 grand an hour just to pay 5 people minimum wage before you even consider your other overheads.

So of course with the low volumes in NZ you need to set your prices accordingly.

A very rough rule of thumb for engineering equipment with stock shelf life similar to bike parts used to be double the staff payroll to break even. Since then the cost of doing business in NZ has risen around 40%.

Edit: that's turnover, with margins of 60% for exclusive product and around 40% for everything else.


While we're all in bleat mode I'd just like to ask what people think the manufacturers prices might be? I'm tolerably sure the cost per unit would be a small fraction of the subsequent supply chain' s individual margins. And that for an entity with many, many times the overhead.

One thing always remains true: If a monopoly stands for any length of time then prices will rise well beyond any measure of true value.

[Robert Taylor]

Thats really hard to say. We try to keep our retail prices in line with what it would cost you to buy the item at retail overseas and freight it into NZ. However, often it is not possible for us.

You have to keep in mind that the whole of NZ is smaller than many cities overseas. Economies of scale really do play a part, as much as people seem not to like to hear. Also NZ importers have next to zero clout with suppliers as we are so small a client to them. So it is all very well to say that we should get tough with our suppliers, but when you consider that a years worth of orders for us might constitute just a monthly order from other of there international clients. So if we complain about the cost of the goods, it is not like they would miss the sales. We might hold our own on a sales per capita basis, but it is a drop in the bucket to global sales.

There are many US companies or companies that their main market is the US that sell more to the US than to the rest of the world combined.

Just some thoughts.

Yes indeed, we have no clout at all for all of your reasons.

[Robert Taylor]

I'll do some research later but does anyone happen to know which bike manufacturers supply directly into NZ?

Youd best differentiate that into mainstraem names with at least some modicum of quality control ( no direct sales nor should there be ) and Chinese made weetbix packet specials.

[rwh]

Youd best differentiate that into mainstraem names with at least some modicum of quality control ( no direct sales nor should there be ) and Chinese made weetbix packet specials.

Why no direct sales?

You think there should be at least 2 parties before the end customer for any product?

Richard

[Blackflagged]

Bringing in Bikes One by One would add a lot to the price. Parts read posts made already. Simply... Customs.. Tax`s.

[Viscount Montgomery]

Why not just selfishly monopolize sales for your own private business by negotiating a slippery and secretive under-hand deal with the actual overseas manufacturer of the goods, letting the equally slippery evasive overseas manufacturer to then refuse any sale of the said product to the NZ public by agreeing to leave all their sales to a single clutching dealer in NZ??

That way, the overseas company can shut-down all on-line sales to NZ, whilst the single clutching NZ dealer with no competition can charge what they damn well like for the goods, safe in the knowledge that the ordinary NZ'er looking for a realistic price is shit-out-of-luck and has no fucking choice but to pay a inflated ludicrous price straight to the said slippery NZ dealer if they, the NZ buyer, want any fucken chance at all of actually buying the product?


All under the shifty and phony fairytale claim that the over-priced charges will "trickle down" to the rest of the NZ public... Yeah, do it that way, you'd be on a real winner then.. It'll be easy because 90% of NZ motorcyclists are just dim-witted incompetent morons remember..

[Blackflagged]

Who killed JFK?

[Robert Taylor]

Why no direct sales?

You think there should be at least 2 parties before the end customer for any product?

Richard

Worldwide manufacturers of products ( and Im talking the traditional name manufacturers ) and especially those that require technical service insist on a infrastructure of a sales and parts distribution chain. And technical people at local level that are conversant with the products and will co-ordinate training of dealer technicians, be kept informed of updates and to handle warranty claims etc. Also to provide reports on market circumstances and issues etc.

On the technical side this is exactly what I did when I worked for Yamaha as their National Technical Manager back in the late 80s and exactly what I do now as the Ohlins distributor. We dont just clip the ticket on the way through, theres an enpormous amount of technical correspondence with the factory and that in alliance with other distributors gives the factory neccessary information on market conditions.

Traditional distribution chains are not perfect but its a whole lot better than a wild west / open slather scenario. That is a bridge too far and is an unacceptable drop in quality assurance, or at least the mechanisms to provide some level of quality assurance. Some fail in this respect , some succeed. Im not acting as an aplologist for those distributors / dealers with an abysmal level of backup.

Distributing and looking after motor vehicles is a whole lot different to than for example selling fine crystal.

2 parties can often be one too many but its also dependent on what level of LOCAL service the product requires and this is the big catch 22. People are just as inclined to grizzle if the nearest trained service dealer is 2 to 5 hours away. The trouble is we all want to have our cake and eat it too.....

[Kickaha]

Who killed JFK?

I think Viscount Montgomery did cause he's an angry sounding fucker:ar15:

[rwh]

Worldwide manufacturers of products ( and Im talking the traditional name manufacturers ) and especially those that require technical service insist on a infrastructure of a sales and parts distribution chain. And technical people at local level that are conversant with the products and will co-ordinate training of dealer technicians, be kept informed of updates and to handle warranty claims etc. Also to provide reports on market circumstances and issues etc.

On the technical side this is exactly what I did when I worked for Yamaha as their National Technical Manager back in the late 80s and exactly what I do now as the Ohlins distributor. We dont just clip the ticket on the way through, theres an enpormous amount of technical correspondence with the factory and that in alliance with other distributors gives the factory neccessary information on market conditions.

Traditional distribution chains are not perfect but its a whole lot better than a wild west / open slather scenario. That is a bridge too far and is an unacceptable drop in quality assurance, or at least the mechanisms to provide some level of quality assurance. Some fail in this respect , some succeed. Im not acting as an aplologist for those distributors / dealers with an abysmal level of backup.

Distributing and looking after motor vehicles is a whole lot different to than for example selling fine crystal.

2 parties can often be one too many but its also dependent on what level of LOCAL service the product requires and this is the big catch 22. People are just as inclined to grizzle if the nearest trained service dealer is 2 to 5 hours away. The trouble is we all want to have our cake and eat it too.....

What I meant is, if a manufacturer is bringing in their own bikes, why shouldn't they operate a dealership, complete with full servicing, themselves? Direct sales.

Or is that not what you mean by direct sales?

Richard

[Robert Taylor]

Why not just selfishly monopolize sales for your own private business by negotiating a slippery and secretive under-hand deal with the actual overseas manufacturer of the goods, letting the equally slippery evasive overseas manufacturer to then refuse any sale of the said product to the NZ public by agreeing to leave all their sales to a single clutching dealer in NZ??

That way, the overseas company can shut-down all on-line sales to NZ, whilst the single clutching NZ dealer with no competition can charge what they damn well like for the goods, safe in the knowledge that the ordinary NZ'er looking for a realistic price is shit-out-of-luck and has no fucking choice but to pay a inflated ludicrous price straight to the said slippery NZ dealer if they, the NZ buyer, want any fucken chance at all of actually buying the product?


All under the shifty and phony fairytale claim that the over-priced charges will "trickle down" to the rest of the NZ public... Yeah, do it that way, you'd be on a real winner then.. It'll be easy because 90% of NZ motorcyclists are just dim-witted incompetent morons remember..

I HAVE TO QUESTION ALOUD WHO THE MORONS ARE???? I think the demeanour of your post is self explanatory and you are lumping everything into an us and them scenario.

Speaking for my own business I have adapted to the worldwide circumstances as I wish to keep my doors open. I personally deal with a lot of motorcyclists who are good everyday people that are motivated and intelligent with no attitude issues.

Motorcycle industry people are consumers of everyday products and just as attentive to the market distortions that occur with all sorts of products. I am not averse to buying books as I read prolifically. Ive bought a few via Amazon but will ALWAYS try and source locally first as Id rather support a '' clipping of the ticket'' thatbputs food into the mouths of NZ workers than those overseas. As long as the price differentail is not excessive and supply time is also not protracted I will buy locally. Cant be fairer than that.

[Robert Taylor]

What I meant is, if a manufacturer is bringing in their own bikes, why shouldn't they operate a dealership, complete with full servicing, themselves? Direct sales.

Or is that not what you mean by direct sales?

Richard

So the only dealership is in Auckland and the customer in Invercargill has to go to Auckland for servicing?

[Blackflagged]

I think Viscount Montgomery did cause he's an angry sounding fucker:ar15:

I think a Tinfoil Hat maybe on order!

[XF650]

Late last year I needed some bike engine parts. Quote from local dealer seemed high so went on-line & got prices from two US web sites for same OEM parts. These were approx 40% cheaper ($ converted). So even allowing for GST, duty & MAF charges etc I was still way better off to import the same parts myself. Basically the difference would pay the labour for the job.
So I put this all in writing & agreed for dealer to forward it to wholesaler, who replied that they would reduce the freight by a small amount if it was shipped by sea instead of air, that's all !!. And there's the rub - no wholesale margin discount even though ziltch inventory costs i.e they wanted to charge full trade price for something they didn't even stock!!

I invited my dealer to import the parts himself but his hands were tied by the franchise agreement. He did however offer a cash discount off his meager margin ex franchise, so in the end I split the order, half through him & half ex US.
While my dealer doesn't blame me for taking advantage of the current exchange rate, I still feel bloody guilty for not supporting him 100%. I understand that everyone in the supply chain needs to make a fair margin to survive (I'm in wholesale sales), but the distributors attitude annoyed me & I wanted to make a point as well as save $.

Surley there must be a way the wholesale distributors can assist their franchise retailers with ways to meet the market? It's obvious their parts business must be suffering, or don't they care?
I know one independant m/bike shop who offers their clients a choice on OEM parts - either ex NZ distributor or direct import. Naturally most opt for the latter - cheaper identical parts for the client and the shop makes a better margin.

[rwh]

So the only dealership is in Auckland and the customer in Invercargill has to go to Auckland for servicing?

Well, if they decided to only operate one branch ...

Richard

[Robert Taylor]

Well, if they decided to only operate one branch ...

Richard

Therein lies the problem. Its another set of costs and businesses need to make a profit. I dont think theres any need to elaborate further.

[Robert Taylor]

I think Viscount Montgomery did cause he's an angry sounding fucker:ar15:

Well there are people that offer something and then there are those who delight in being deliberately obnoxious.

[Crazy Steve]

Hi my name is Steve, I have in the past spent $100,000's at Nz Motorcycle shops.

Now I spend NOTHING at Nz Bike shops.

Goodbye NZ bike shops....Colemans next pleeease ! ! :yes:

Crazy Steve.

[Coldrider]

The problem is any tom dick and/or harry who is basically unemployable can import goods and mark them up 200% or whatever they decide the market may stand, and basically say they say they are in business propping up the back bone of the country for the want of nothing better to do with their time, but whinge when they find out that their business model is full of misjudgements and out of step with time when private individuals can get on the WWW and add value to goods themselves by purchasing them on someone elses business model and pricing structure that actually works.

[Robert Taylor]

Hi my name is Steve, I have in the past spent $100,000's at Nz Motorcycle shops.

Now I spend NOTHING at Nz Bike shops.

Goodbye NZ bike shops....Colemans next pleeease ! ! :yes:

Crazy Steve.

Let everyone remind you of that if in the future there is a massive exchange rate shift where our dollar becomes very weak against $US. Such events really challenge peoples publicly stated buying preferences and it proves that its all about the end price, no matter if its offered by a company in the US or a company in NZ..............................................Li fe is full of hypocrisies.

[Ocean1]

I invited my dealer to import the parts himself.

Sounds semi-familliar. Couple of years ago I had occasion to track down a particular part, (this was business related, rather than personal). Price was US$208.00, to my door.

There were transport insurance issues though, so I called two local agents, pointed them at the US supplier and asked them for quotes.

One was NZ$1680.00 and the other was NZ$1645.00 plus local delivery. "What do I get with the extra $1200.00" I asked. The answer was basically: "Fuck all". That was just the price they'd been expecting, (and getting) locally for that part.

I did spend considerably more than I'd originally planned. I caused a container full to arrive. One of the local guys is gone as a direct result.

If you're going to try to openly shaft me you'd better be standing behind some pretty watertight protection.

[Crazy Steve]

Let everyone remind you of that if in the future there is a massive exchange rate shift where our dollar becomes very weak against $US. Such events really challenge peoples publicly stated buying preferences and it proves that its all about the end price, no matter if its offered by a company in the US or a company in NZ..............................................Li fe is full of hypocrisies.

Sorry Mr Taylor I don't know what your going on about ? :shit:

My point is clear I HAVE BEEN ARSE RAPED FAR TO MUCH BY DEALER'S...

And I refuse to be arse raped again and again...It causes far to much pain !

And I still get no fckin service ! !

Crazy Steve.

[Blackflagged]

Most dealers don`t offer that service, special request, or may be it`s just K`rd?

[Robert Taylor]

Sorry Mr Taylor I don't know what your going on about ? :shit:

My point is clear I HAVE BEEN ARSE RAPED FAR TO MUCH BY DEALER'S...

And I refuse to be arse raped again and again...It causes far to much pain !

And I still get no fckin service ! !

Crazy Steve.

I think there is a danger of being oversimplistic when in fact there are many complex factors. One of those ( of many ) being the affect of exchange rate. There are good dealers out there.

[Robert Taylor]

Most dealers don`t offer that service, special request, or may be it`s just K`rd?

So are we talking Auckland? As Im aware most of the population resides outside of Auckland? Im not being anti Auckland or whatever, just stating the obvious.

[Maha]

Hi my name is Steve, I have in the past spent $100,000's at Nz Motorcycle shops.
Crazy Steve.



I HAVE BEEN ARSE RAPED FAR TO MUCH BY DEALER'S...
And I refuse to be arse raped again and again...
Crazy Steve.

You paid $100,000's.....for this service?

[rwh]

I think there is a danger of being oversimplistic when in fact there are many complex factors. One of those ( of many ) being the affect of exchange rate. There are good dealers out there.

That exchange rate applies to both private and commercial imports, doesn't it?

Richard

[Mully Clown]

I'll do some research later but does anyone happen to know which bike manufacturers supply directly into NZ?

Looks something like this.

Triumph New Zealand Ltd - no relation
Aeon
Aprilia
Cagiva
Gas Gas
Gilera
Husqvarna
Keeway
MotoGuzzi
MV Agusta
PGO
Piaggio
SYM
Triumph
Vespa

BMW New Zealand Ltd - owned by the BMW
BMW

Harley-Davidson Australia Pty Ltd - not sure if it's part of the mothership
Harley Davidson
Buell

BRP Australia Pty Ltd - looks to be the BRP
Can-am

Ducati NF Importers NZ Ltd - Australia based
Ducati

Blue Wing Honda - the one this thread is about, no relation to Honda.
Honda Motorcycles

KTM NEW ZEALAND LIMITED - 1/4 owned by KTM Austria
KTM
Husaberg

Lyntec Holdings Ltd
Kawasaki

Lifan Motorcycles (NZ) Ltd - NZ owned
Lifan

Polaris Sales New Zealand - directors are Australia/US
Polaris (which I guess means Victory as well)

Suzuki New Zealand Ltd - owned by Suzuki Japan
Suzuki

Yamaha Motor NZ Ltd - owned by Australia, not sure if part of actual Yamaha
Yamaha


Info harvested from the following:
http://www.mia.org.nz/
http://www.business.govt.nz/companies/
individual manufacturer websites


I guess the question is whether or not there is better consumer feedback from brands with manufacturer investment or not.

[Smifffy]

I think there is a danger of being oversimplistic when in fact there are many complex factors. One of those ( of many ) being the affect of exchange rate. There are good dealers out there.

So are you suggesting that when the exchange rate crashes, the NZ price from local dealers (assuming they are still in business) will remain more or less stable?

Just as the dealer prices for parts have plummeted with low inflation and a strong dollar in recent years?

[ukusa]

at the end of the day (love that saying), price point (for same product/brand) would be the biggest factor in peoples decisions on where to buy. Otherwise Pak n Save would have no customers.
For every 10 seat cowls sold by Honda dealers her in NZ at $600, there's probably another 30 purchased overseas at $210. If the price was a little lower, say only $300, they may very well double their sales.
(disclaimer, figures made up for example purposes only, but you get the gist)

[scumdog]

at the end of the day (love that saying), price point (for same product/brand) would be the biggest factor in peoples decisions on where to buy. Otherwise Pak n Save would have no customers.
For every 10 seat cowls sold by Honda dealers her in NZ at $600, there's probably another 30 purchased overseas at $210. If the price was a little lower, say only $300, they may very well double their sales.
(disclaimer, figures made up for example purposes only, but you get the gist)

True.

But with helmets, boots, pants etc?

I'd rather have the option of saying 'oops, they don't fit' etc.

Hard to do THAT over the internet eh..

[burden2]

Like most folks I guess my preference is to buy local but when the differences between local and importing it are huge then the final decider is almost always price. I got a set of highway bars in from the US and saved myself over $200 over the cheapest price I could find here. Last week I ordered a windscreen from a local seller for $104 delivered to my mailbox compared to the dealers price in the US of $US154.95 plus postage and all that jazz. I'm not scared to pay the going rate for what I want but when I can keep that kind of cash in my pocket to spend on other things thats the way I go.

[MSTRS]

True.

But with helmets, boots, pants etc?

I'd rather have the option of saying 'oops, they don't fit' etc.

Hard to do THAT over the internet eh..

Pah! You'll have learned what the right size is from your mistake. Then you sell the 'unwanted gift/prize' on TM for twice what you paid for it, use half to re-order the right size and put the other half in the bank. When you get your second purchase, it is effectively free.
An' ye hae the cheek tae call yersel' a canny Scot...

[Robert Taylor]

That exchange rate applies to both private and commercial imports, doesn't it?

Richard

Yes that part of the playing field is at least level.

[Smiff-ta]

Buying overseas is a great option,

But there is nothing like being able to go and speak to the person who is taking your hard earned money.

Nothing like a warranty
Nothing like being able to discuss options
Nothing like exchanging something thats not a 100% good fit
Nothing like free technical help

Raddy rah ra

[spacemonkey]

I have even joined up with www.shipito.com to get an address in the US of A to have goods sent to from companies that don't sell overseas and also to save a shitload on shipping. They can combine multiple packages into one and send it, I've already saved hundreds in shipping so far.



Fucking hell that's expensive!!!!
I'm in the middle of organising importing some stuff from Germany and for a laugh I fed the same weights and dimensions into that site shipping from Califonia 800kg's, 120 wide, 80cm deep and 1m high and it gave me a couple of prices the cheapest being $4k USD....... Current quote I have in front of me ex Hamburg is circa $600 NZD. :shit:
The main difference I think is that site doesn't have an option for sea freight (longer transit but way cheaper).

[Juzz976]

slightly off topic but from suzuki

TL1000R 4 way adjustable Brake lever $ 35 or there abouts
TL1000R 4 way adjustable Clutch Lever $ 143

Now these 2 parts are almost identical apart from being a mirror of each other.

When your side stand sinks into the ground :innocent: your clutch lever breaks and i would assume they'd sell more of the clutch levers.

Do TL riders low side more turning right or WTF are we getting ripped.

BTW the price difference was comparable across all aftermarket brands

and on the TL-R the brake lever works better as a clutch lever than the clutch lever does but aesthetically the knobs upside down.

[Robert Taylor]

So are you suggesting that when the exchange rate crashes, the NZ price from local dealers (assuming they are still in business) will remain more or less stable?

Just as the dealer prices for parts have plummeted with low inflation and a strong dollar in recent years?

I think theres a danger of too many assuming that everything revolves around $US. For example we purchase our beloved Ohlins product in Swedish krona because the factory is in Sweden and that is their currency. They opted not to go with Euro and that is probably a good thing as they will not be helping to prop up failing economic basket cases like Greece. If the exchange rate against Swedish krona remains stable but at the same time the $US strengthens markedly ( meaning more $NZ are required to purchase $US ) then you will see that the buy price against the Swedish currency remains the same but then increases markedly if you purchase in $US.

Speaking for ourselves we have lowered our prices as overall our kiwi dollar has strenthened against Swedish crowns. We have also cut our margins to very tight levels to compete with the unlevel playing fields out there ( internet sales ) But you have to be careful about deriding dealers and distributors for generally ''failing'' to lower prices due to numerous other factors that have offset that. The cost of operating businesses has increased markedly over the last few years due to many factors including such things as the introduction of 4 weeks paid leave.

[Juzz976]

Back on topic,

I don't believe our local dealers are putting excessive margins on their equipment nor overcharging for labour rates.
Bare minimum they should be putting 20% on top of a large purchase by any one customer.

Sure if you were to go to your dealer and buy a large quantity of gear with substantial value they could offer a discount on their rrp, they can also request a quote from their wholesaler for this package of goods and give you a better deal as the cost of this process is only a portion of the margin applied to the goods.

The big problem (and I'm sure many will disagree) is that many internet retailers do not have list prices or rrp with dealer account discounts or nett buy rates. Wholesalers in most other industries operate this way as its easier to deal with a few large accounts rather than many small ones.

This way the dealer/retailer is the sales person for this wholesaler which reduces the wholesalers costs, promotes the relationship between dealer and wholesaler and reduces goods returned as ordered incorrect.

Another huge influence is with many industries eg plumbing or electrical
these items need to be installed by a qualified person to meet legislation (prescribed electrical work for instance needs to be done by an electrician).

In this way it is common that a trades person is able to supply and fit parts around the same cost as if you were to only just purchase the parts yourself,
this is due to their purchasing discount.
Of course incorrectly installed equipment on a motorcycle is not potentially dangerous:facepalm:. In this way the industry is fair and safer.

If the industry is regulated and wholesale suppliers make this agreement to support their dealers the dealers prices would eventually decrease as the buying power is returned, turnover by dealers is increased and by proportion overheads decreased and ultimately leading to less increases in future prices.

So everytime you buy something from an internet store your making it cost more for someone who buys the same item locally, then you go to a local store and complain about their prices.
And when you need a motorcycle mechanic you'll also have to have a cry about how much they charge per hour because thats the services they can provide that you computer wont.

[R-Soul]

Economy of scale.

Is it economies of scale there, or lack of competition here?

I suspect that our small market allows maybe one or two major players in - for just about any product. These two players invariably end up basing their prices on each others latest ones, and the prices creep up steadily - faster than other countries where more players means more competition, and keeps prices down. Perhaps sometimes even active collusion...

The net result is that everything - even small things that in other countries cost $5-10, now end up costing $10-20 in NZ. Net result: business owners or importers make the money (which goes offshore, while they keep paying their workers NZ "normal" wages) and the cost of living skyrockets in NZ....

I hate the idea of too much government regulation, but seriously, I wonder if it would be better if the govt. would regulate maximum markups on import costs.

[R-Soul]

dont you just love that one?i had the same thing a while back,a certain BMW dealer told me a part i needed did not exist,even when i quoted them a part nuimber.

A week later I received the part that did not exist,from Australia

and it was cheaper than the NZ dealer quoted me ,before they changed their mind and said it was never available.

its a joke,which is why I have been buying and selling online as a first choice for years now.

What you are describing is CLASSIC "fat cat" syndrome. Refer to my previous post.

If "supporting NZ" means supporting the price gouging of the average consumer, then I for one wont be.
Business is survival of the fittest. You are not helping fat cat companies by making them fatter than they already are.

[R-Soul]

You are forgetting that Harvey Norman don't have staff or overheads, nor fuckwit customers who expect to look at the picture on the TV before deciding whether or not to buy.

Harvey Norman also don't have to pay their staff to answer the phone or spend time with customers who are just timewasters.

Maybe it's just a massive conspiracy and they don't do that for Tv's because the US ones run on a different voltage and wouldn't work here without modification.

Then again maybe the industry is right, and now we the consumer have no choice, there are no Mum & Dad appliance stores left anymore - you are forced to get your Tv from a national chain retailer such as Harvey or Noel, or Bonds etc.

:innocent:

No, floor space and stock costs are similar, as are wage costs.

The difference is that the NZ TV market is larger, supports more players and is therefore more competitive than the bike accessories market. Which means the players (be they importers /retailers) are less likely to collude or price gouge.

[R-Soul]

Agree, however, is there evidence that wholesalers supplying NZ retailers are minting it?

Well the cost of living is through the freaking roof...
And I dont for a second believe that the retailers are as innocent as they pretend to be. I reckon there is a good mix. They protest too much.

[R-Soul]

And I suspect the same is for the American market too...

Yes but in real terms even smaller markets in the US are potentially worth billions (unlike ours) and can support many players that have to stay competitive to survive, or risk being undercut by the many other players.

If the NZ market has two players in it, and its worth $10m a year, that means that a large amount of set up costs would be required to compete for (initially) less than 1m a year, MAYBE building to $3m (assuming equal split) eventually. Where as the payback for a third share of a market of $100m would make the risk more worthwhile.

Now if you are one of two players in NZ markets, and your competitor is making a 100% markup, would you reduce it to a 30% markup 'because its fair' and you dont want to rip off customers? AS IF!

The only way to keep the players honest and support NZ consumers is to FULLY support parallel importation.

[steve_t]

Well the cost of living is through the freaking roof...
And I dont for a second believe that the retailers are as innocent as they pretend to be. I reckon there is a good mix. They protest too much.

LOL. You quoted me asking for evidence and reply with "I don't ... believe..." :drinkup:

[MarkH]

Fucking hell that's expensive!!!!
I'm in the middle of organising importing some stuff from Germany and for a laugh I fed the same weights and dimensions into that site shipping from Califonia 800kg's, 120 wide, 80cm deep and 1m high and it gave me a couple of prices the cheapest being $4k USD....... Current quote I have in front of me ex Hamburg is circa $600 NZD. :shit:
The main difference I think is that site doesn't have an option for sea freight (longer transit but way cheaper).

$4K isn't that bad for air freight of such a large and heavy package - but for something that size/weight I would hunt around for someone that could use surface shipping. I'd rather wait a few weeks than pay $4K in shipping.

If you are buying smaller items that only way a few KGs total then using Shipito can be a good option.

[R-Soul]

Yup, my bad, I misread what you meant. Yes I know the chances of it being effective are low, but what other choices do the retailers have available? The friend who I ordered the seat cowl for has stated to me, and in this thread as well, that he will not buy another new Honda from NZ. He paid roughly $24k for that bike, and he'll buy another new bike probably within a couple years. But it won't be a Honda. Well not from NZ anyway.

So no I don't have the magic silver bullet to answer the issue, all I could hope to see happen is that the ledger gets balanced better so that the retailers get better support from their suppliers (and to be honest, I'm mostly referring to OEM parts) so that they can get better support from their customers.

If the situation doesn't change, no dramas for me currently, I'll keep buying from overseas as many others do. But it'll be dramas for those that work in the industry. And I don't want to see these shops close down, I don't want to see these people out of jobs. But I'm not paying 3x the price to ensure that. I live in NZ too, and I get paid NZ wages. I can't afford to spend that much.

Another option is to negotiate contingency stockholding for wholesalers.
When they sell it, the wholesalers/importers get the money for it.

Another option is to negotiate REALLY low prices from international wholesalers online, same as the retailers are doing.

Another option is to change their policy to no stock holding (well, not much - enough to try only), and order only once ordered by customers. I dont see too many customers havinga problem with this, as long as their prices make up for the wait.

[R-Soul]

So does anyone on here actually work for an importer? Or is an importer?

I do, not in the motorcycle industry but in another industry.
There are many costs the end user doesn't see.
For instance,
minimum freight charges (might be one cubic metre or it might be 250kgs)
portage
port storage
insurance
taxes
duties
transport cost between wharf and shipping agent
transport cost from shipping agent to us
there is even a charge per line on invoice!!
and on and on

Many suppliers don't let you purchase one off items, or if they do they put a minimum charge on that. eg it might be $2,500 USD + freight + plus all your govenment taxes and import charges. We have one supplier that our minimum order is a 20ft container.

As an importer we have to project orders out 3 - 6 months in advance. This stock also needs to be paid for before it ships. We are crystal ball gazing. If we make a mistake we have dead stock. If we make a mistake we may not be able to supply a certain product for a long time.

We have had to reduce staff as times are really tough.

We carry the warranty, in most cases our suppliers charge us for "warranty" parts and we pay for labour for repairing goods. The consumer wants longer warranties and to pay less for the product.

We need a certain margin to even survive let alone make a profit and it is well above the 10% that keeps getting thrown around.

As has been said, we have less buying power, smaller numbers and a greater distance to move goods. We try as hard as we can to match US and AUS pricing, but we can't always do it. We are not creaming it.

I agree that the current retail model probably needs looking at. But any answers that mean lower prices for the consumer mean a loss of jobs in most industries as the supply chains get cut. There may not be room for importers/retailers in the supply chain, but the loss of one or the other while making the price lower for the consumer MAY make the consumer worse off in the long run.

All those costs you mentioned are done in bulk, and over many goods should mean that they are cheaper individually. All of those costs need to be replicated when ordering online, but at MUCH higher costs because they are now higher cost courier deliveries /air freight etc.

And they STILL come out 50% less. FAIL!

[R-Soul]

We saw an example of supply chain mathematics earlier in the thread. You need to turn over at least 3 grand an hour just to pay 5 people minimum wage before you even consider your other overheads.

So of course with the low volumes in NZ you need to set your prices accordingly.

If they are paying staff $600 an hour each, then I am not surprised businesses are going under...

At five staff at minimum wage (lets say $15 an hour), you would need to make $75 an hour. If you make 20% profit margin (IMHO this is reasonable), then you need to sell $375 an hour of stuff to cover their costs, before overheads.

I am not sure what size operation requires 5 staff at the same time? This is presumably not a small store -or else I think it is heavily overstaffed.

[R-Soul]

LOL. You quoted me asking for evidence and reply with "I don't ... believe..." :drinkup:

I gave your evidence with my first statement.

[steve_t]

I gave your evidence with my first statement.

Suggesting there's a monopoly/duopoly responsible for our high prices doesn't provide evidence that either or both the wholesaler or retailer is applying a large markup. You suggested that you don't believe that the retailers are as innocent as they pretend to be because they protest too much. You don't think they're protesting because they're struggling? Survival of the fittest right? Won't that end up with less competition and increase prices in the long run?

[scracha]

All those costs you mentioned are done in bulk, and over many goods should mean that they are cheaper individually. All of those costs need to be replicated when ordering online, but at MUCH higher costs because they are now higher cost courier deliveries /air freight etc.

And they STILL come out 50% less. FAIL!

I can see both sides of the argument. Yeah, I import (non bike) stuff. Often the official distributer prices are bonkers (todays item, $400 trade, RRP $600 but everyone sells them at $475) so you end up buying them from the states/uk for $200. Add in GST, import duty etc and its still well under $250.

One thing that really pisses me off - The backup from abroad just as good (often better) then the official distributer.

Re bike shops. If I, Joe Public can spend 10 minutes to research the correct part and save a fuckload of money, then why the hell can't the bike shop? Dealer should be able to say "I can get it tomorrow for $1000 from NZ or $600 if you're prepared to wait 4 days". Shit, they've probably got far better markup on the unofficial imported part anyway?

A little bit better product knowledge and effort and the bike shops could be quids in. Probably in the too hard basket for many bike shops and customers are voting with their feet. Obviously the bike shops that are making the effort are quids in.

[scott411]

It still doesn't explain why the local store couldn't order gear from the online store as a value added service to the customer and eliminate all of those charges, that at the end of the day do nobody any good.

because you need to put a margin on everything to pay for the stock holding plus all overheads,

i do actually do this from time to time when i can not get parts from the normal supply chanels, it normally costs me a little more but i do it to keep customers happy,

but this argument has been had before and no one won last time either

[R1GEEZA]

i think just from the numbers reply on this thread shows how rediculas prices here are.... the only reason i go to a bike shop pretty much is to try on gear for size!!!! i bought an alpinestars rc-1 2piece from ebay for less than half price here also found a seller offering free shipping. quids in!!!! plus the sheer choices you have are 100x!!! i think its a shame shop owners are struggling but at the end off the day i think most newzealanders are? i know i dont have much spare cash to throw around.
:woohoo::woohoo::woohoo:ebay ebay ebay ebay ebay ebay:woohoo::woohoo:

[scott411]

i think just from the numbers reply on this thread shows how rediculas prices here are.... the only reason i go to a bike shop pretty much is to try on gear for size!!!! i bought an alpinestars rc-1 2piece from ebay for less than half price here also found a seller offering free shipping. quids in!!!! plus the sheer choices you have are 100x!!! i think its a shame shop owners are struggling but at the end off the day i think most newzealanders are? i know i dont have much spare cash to throw around.
:woohoo::woohoo::woohoo:ebay ebay ebay ebay ebay ebay:woohoo::woohoo:

i understand why people buy overseas and i tend to do for some stuff as well in other interest's i have, if i can not get what i want here, or it is 50% cheaper to land it here from oversea's i will do it,

but going in to try gear on, then buying oversea's is pretty low in my opinion, but i have had worse, someone coming in wanting me to swap for free some gear that he got in and was the wrong size

[Robert Taylor]

i understand why people buy overseas and i tend to do for some stuff as well in other interest's i have, if i can not get what i want here, or it is 50% cheaper to land it here from oversea's i will do it,

but going in to try gear on, then buying oversea's is pretty low in my opinion, but i have had worse, someone coming in wanting me to swap for free some gear that he got in and was the wrong size

I second that, its VERY low to make a convenience of a local retailer for sizing when you know only too damn well youre not going to buy off them

[Katman]

Do you lot spend as much time whinging about the mark-up that supermarkets make on your groceries?

[Robert Taylor]

Another option is to negotiate contingency stockholding for wholesalers.
When they sell it, the wholesalers/importers get the money for it.

Another option is to negotiate REALLY low prices from international wholesalers online, same as the retailers are doing.

Another option is to change their policy to no stock holding (well, not much - enough to try only), and order only once ordered by customers. I dont see too many customers havinga problem with this, as long as their prices make up for the wait.

Wholesalers and importers do not have a bottomless money pit to have lots of dealers with consignment stock, cash flow problems are as similiar as what dealers have, if not moreso.

What you also have to realise is that manufacturers do not have endless production capacity and stock has to often be pre-ordered months in advance. Sometimes or more than sometimes it is out of phase with the main selling seasons in the Northern hemisphere and it doesnt suit us so well.

The issues are more complex than people realise and as we are so tiny and insignificant we havent got clout, quite the opposite.

How the friggin hell you can negotiate REALLY LOW PRICES especially when you are in world terms buying bugger all is beyond me and all the other distributors. Thats fantasy land.

[onearmedbandit]

Do you lot spend as much time whinging about the mark-up that supermarkets make on your groceries?

If I belonged to a grocery forum, then yeah I probably would. Notice how every time there is a fuel cost increase, the grocery stores put their prices up due to increased transportation costs (that's justifiable) but when fuel prices decrease I noticed food costs hardly changed.

Anyway, back to the topic. Remember this thread isn't really about the small importer, or hard to obtain products. This is about the national importer of one of the 'big four' (I'm not singling them out on purpose however) charging an obscenely outrageous price for a piece of painted plastic. Then to add insult to injury, that the same piece can be bought from a retail outfit off-shore, shipped, taxed, etc and be under half price. Honda are a huge multi-national organisation, with arms in every country practically, with a 'no-discount policy' worldwide on their new cars. Yet their image is tarnished in this country due to pricing.

And I understand that using retailers solely for the intention of 'sizing' before buying off-line is low, but I was a car salesman for 10yrs (so I should know 'low') and for every car I sold I would have had 3-4 test drives that ended in no sale. A lot of these buyers would have already made up their mind to buy their neighbours Mondeo, or the one up the road with lower km's, but they'll test drive another 'just to make sure'. Did that bother me? Hell no, I'd always do my job and act professionally. Because what happens if the sale they are banking on falls over? What then? They are going to go back to the place where they drove another model, and got good service. And that's a salesmans job, to find out about the customer. Convert them into a sale right now if you can, but don't burn them, because if they don't buy today they might tomorrow, or they might recommend you to a friend etc.

So yeah I understand it must be annoying for sales staff when that happens, but at least the punter has walked through the door. Can't sell him those leathers? Ask why not? Doesn't want to tell you? Be cheeky, ask if he's seen a better deal. Pry it out of him/her that they are looking on the 'net, and if they finally admit they are confirm you can't compete on price with them, but look for the opportunity to build a relationship with them. Sell them some leather cleaner discounted, or a cool suit for wearing under leathers. You've made a sale, and more importantly you've made an impression on the customer.

[onearmedbandit]

How the friggin hell you can negotiate REALLY LOW PRICES especially when you are in world terms buying bugger all is beyond me and all the other distributors. Thats fantasy land.

I understand what you are saying Robert, makes perfect sense. Just make sure the manufacturers understand why they lose market representation in New Zealand as the retailers close down.

All I'm saying is that it appears that the retailers and wholesalers/importers are suffering in NZ. However, the customers are not, as they are buying off-shore, in greater numbers everyday it would appear. Long term effect of that I'm assuming will be job losses, then ultimately closures. As more retailes close more buyers turn to online shopping, further knocking the stuffing out of the surviving retailers. Eventually the last retailer closes up shop, the importer no longer has an outlet, so they close up shop. And the manufacturer no longer has an official presence in the market. Maybe our market is that small that that outcome wouldn't concern them too much. Yes I know I'm going to extremes, but it would of happened before in this country I'm certain.

[MarkH]

i understand why people buy overseas and i tend to do for some stuff as well in other interest's i have, if i can not get what i want here, or it is 50% cheaper to land it here from oversea's i will do it,

but going in to try gear on, then buying oversea's is pretty low in my opinion, but i have had worse, someone coming in wanting me to swap for free some gear that he got in and was the wrong size

Wow, that's fukn cheeky! I have visited local stores to try on jackets, pants, gloves, boots & helmets - in each case I bought locally.

I visit local shops to enquire about price/availability for over 90% of my purchasing - they get the opportunity to make the sale, it's just sometimes they don't succeed (not my fault & not my problem). I wanted a Givi screen and was impressed by the local price, it was actually cheaper than what I could get one from the US for - it was only the 2 1/2 months delay in availability that lost them the sale. My workshop manual would have cost close enough to the overseas price for me to buy here instead of ordering overseas, but the bike shop couldn't get it for me - no longer available so I got it in from repairmanuals.com. I went to my local shop to buy a drive belt, but the local importer was out of stock, never mind - I got one from overseas cheaper and in less than a week. I'm happy to let the locals have my money - but they need to be able to supply the products in a reasonable time and at a reasonable price. If they can't do it then I don't care why not - it's not my problem, I'll get what I want regardless of whether I buy local or import from overseas.


Do you lot spend as much time whinging about the mark-up that supermarkets make on your groceries?

I think that it is pretty well known that supermarkets operate on high volume/low margins, so no need to whine about their margins. But someone is making too much on some items (like bottled water). I think bike shops would love to have the turnover that the supermarkets have, it would make it easy to make a good profit.

[Owl]

Do you lot spend as much time whinging about the mark-up that supermarkets make on your groceries?

Only on the Woolworths forum!:laugh:

[MSTRS]

... However, the customers are not...

Really? There is more than one good reason for them buying offshore...and it is also to do with price.

[R1GEEZA]

i understand why people buy overseas and i tend to do for some stuff as well in other interest's i have, if i can not get what i want here, or it is 50% cheaper to land it here from oversea's i will do it,

but going in to try gear on, then buying oversea's is pretty low in my opinion, but i have had worse, someone coming in wanting me to swap for free some gear that he got in and was the wrong size

i new i would get abit of stick for saying that i went to try on for size then bought elswhere and i did feel abit cheeky doing it but i wouldt go as far as to say its low... at the end of the day i just couldnt justify spending 1200nzd dollars on a jacket wen i can get it for 400usd pluss duties with free shipping it just seems obsurd that any1 would pay that much.... and as otheres hav said good customer service did make them a sale from me on a back plate so they were still 3hundy up wen i walked out the door. i went back 2day to size up for some alpinestars gloves knowing fullwell i wasnt going to hand over 3hundred bucks for them but i did buy a cap!!!! :innocent:

[scott411]

i new i would get abit of stick for saying that i went to try on for size then bought elswhere and i did feel abit cheeky doing it but i wouldt go as far as to say its low... at the end of the day i just couldnt justify spending 1200nzd dollars on a jacket wen i can get it for 400usd pluss duties with free shipping it just seems obsurd that any1 would pay that much.... and as otheres hav said good customer service did make them a sale from me on a back plate so they were still 3hundy up wen i walked out the door. i went back 2day to size up for some alpinestars gloves knowing fullwell i wasnt going to hand over 3hundred bucks for them but i did buy a cap!!!! :innocent:


what will you do when the retailer shuts up, or stops stocking high end gear because they can not compete?

[Ocean1]

To what extent, do you suppose is the disparity between NZ retail and offshore Interweb sales simply a new commercial reality?

Is the pricing structure likely to change? Surely only if 'er Magesty's servents manage to tax the bejezuz out of interweb imports to make a "level playing field"?

Are not the above import taxes and levies the the reason the field's on the piss in the first place? What does the government contribute to the supply chain, isn't it just another case of "see the money tax the money"?

[onearmedbandit]

what will you do when the retailer shuts up, or stops stocking high end gear because they can not compete?

But is that the customers fault?


To what extent, do you suppose is the disparity between NZ retail and offshore Interweb sales simply a new commercial reality?



It's happened already.

[spacemonkey]

To what extent, do you suppose is the disparity between NZ retail and offshore Interweb sales simply a new commercial reality?

Is the pricing structure likely to change? Surely only if 'er Magesty's servents manage to tax the bejezuz out of interweb imports to make a "level playing field"?

Are not the above import taxes and levies the the reason the field's on the piss in the first place? What does the government contribute to the supply chain, isn't it just another case of "see the money tax the money"?

These "offshore" websites don't in fact need to be offshore, it is possible to run one of those style operations here.
As an example Hamiltron based Torpedo7 (http://www.torpedo7.co.nz/torpedo7/division/motocross/home.do) who sell cycling motorbike and outdoor gear, their prices match or beat many overseas competitors...... Mind you in doing so though their methods have aquired for them the nickname "industryrapists.com". :shit:

[R1GEEZA]

what will you do when the retailer shuts up, or stops stocking high end gear because they can not compete?

look weather i bought from oversees or not would not make a difference. i wouldnt of bought them from the shop even iff there was no ebay! i just couldnt afford to. so the bennefit to me is that i know im wearing high end gear that could save my life if i eva come unstuck instead of sum cheapo brand i wouldve had to resort to if i didnt use ebay. and as selfish and "low" as this may sound, im out to get the best deal for ME. the alpinestars stockists dont giv a shit about me they just want my money....simple buisness and thats fair enough but they cant expect the general public to pay there horrendose prices just to keep them affloat. i think its the way things are moving in gereral in all areas...noone wants to pay the middle-man and if they dont have to they wont simple!!!!!!!! i bet theres a whole bunch of people that feel the same way 2

[Robert Taylor]

Wow, that's fukn cheeky! I have visited local stores to try on jackets, pants, gloves, boots & helmets - in each case I bought locally.

I visit local shops to enquire about price/availability for over 90% of my purchasing - they get the opportunity to make the sale, it's just sometimes they don't succeed (not my fault & not my problem). I wanted a Givi screen and was impressed by the local price, it was actually cheaper than what I could get one from the US for - it was only the 2 1/2 months delay in availability that lost them the sale. My workshop manual would have cost close enough to the overseas price for me to buy here instead of ordering overseas, but the bike shop couldn't get it for me - no longer available so I got it in from repairmanuals.com. I went to my local shop to buy a drive belt, but the local importer was out of stock, never mind - I got one from overseas cheaper and in less than a week. I'm happy to let the locals have my money - but they need to be able to supply the products in a reasonable time and at a reasonable price. If they can't do it then I don't care why not - it's not my problem, I'll get what I want regardless of whether I buy local or import from overseas.



I think that it is pretty well known that supermarkets operate on high volume/low margins, so no need to whine about their margins. But someone is making too much on some items (like bottled water). I think bike shops would love to have the turnover that the supermarkets have, it would make it easy to make a good profit.

Great point, at least you are giving the retailer THE OPPORTUNITY.

[hayd3n]

What a fuckwit.

You could easily have saved $80 by buying from LOCAL fastner suppliers.

i couldent get any in new zealand the local shops tried but all i got was 6 weeks to be sent over at $19 each