Keep Wellington's motorcycle parking free - sign the petition! [Archive] - Page 2

DEVVIL

20th January 2011, 19:33

:eek: Sizest bugger. Still, when I pop down with full luggage on the bike, I haven't found a bike space big enough to park the bike in yet :weep:

I see what you mean...

Bald Eagle

24th January 2011, 17:09

Keep up spreading the word - 4001 singatures. :niceone:

riffer

24th January 2011, 17:53

keep up spreading the word - 4001 singatures. :niceone:

woot!!!!!!!

Micky101

25th January 2011, 00:29

is this what we have to do? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdrDlIInOIU&feature=related

they seem to be having fun.

caseye

25th January 2011, 17:45

You have to ask.! Go back to sleep.
NZ citys are particularly vulnerable to a few well placed traffic jams.
Lets just wait and see the outcome of the talks first aye.

Owl

25th January 2011, 18:18

Keep up spreading the word - 4001 singatures. :niceone:

I wonder how many signatures have been lost? I signed, but no confirmation e-mail and name doesn't appear. I tried a second time, but apparently I'm already on it?:facepalm:

Reckless

25th January 2011, 22:46

I wonder how many signatures have been lost? I signed, but no confirmation e-mail and name doesn't appear. I tried a second time, but apparently I'm already on it?:facepalm:

Owl I didn't get my reply instantly it took a while for the confirmation email to come through! I thought the same as you for an hour or so!

steve_t

25th January 2011, 22:51

Owl I didn't get my reply instantly it took a while for the confirmation email to come through! I thought the same as you for an hour or so!

It took nearly 3 hours for my email to come through

Owl

26th January 2011, 05:56

I've been waiting about a week. I haven't left my keyboard in all that time.:wait:

:laugh:

StoneY

26th January 2011, 06:39

I've been waiting about a week. I haven't left my keyboard in all that time.:wait:

:laugh:

PM me your actual name used on the petition I will search for it to ensure you were added
:)

Fatt Max

26th January 2011, 06:53

Mine came through in a few minutes.....no pie voucher though, tight bastards those WCC people

caseye

26th January 2011, 16:39

Mine came through in a few minutes.....no pie voucher though, tight bastards those WCC people

Na mate it's those tight wadded bloody Welly BRONZ guys they knew it was you and revoked the pie voucher! te he he.Be that bloody Stoney fer sure.

Bald Eagle

26th January 2011, 16:48

Na mate it's those tight wadded bloody Welly BRONZ guys they knew it was you and revoked the pie voucher! te he he.Be that bloody Stoney fer sure.

We are saving up the pie vouchers for the shared lunch at the next bikeoi. :devil2:

caseye

26th January 2011, 16:56

Tui's ANYONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Crying ere I yam Eagle, oh that was too good.It's a luch I look frorward to sharing with you.

DEVVIL

26th January 2011, 17:08

We are saving up the pie vouchers for the shared lunch at the next bikeoi. :devil2:
Thats it then Fat Max is TEC to give us a chance to get a voucher:chase:

howdamnhard

28th January 2011, 14:46

Petition signed.

cheshirecat

29th January 2011, 11:53

I assume there is absolutely not truth in the rumour the Rebels are coming over to 'assist' WCC in their MC parking policy.

Owl

29th January 2011, 12:15

I've been waiting about a week. I haven't left my keyboard in all that time.:wait:

:laugh:

Ok I tried again on Thursday using my full name:wait:................:zzzz:, but still no e-mail:confused:

I'm not bitter though.:oi-grr:

Owl

29th January 2011, 12:26

Right, third time lucky:woohoo:

Changed my e-mail address and it came through straight away, although added to junk. Buggered if I know what's going on there?:scratch:

Bald Eagle

29th January 2011, 14:45

Seems we are not considered as a contributor to the compact city approach unlike buses, car sharing clubs and cycle parking. Even though the majority of cars travel into the city at 25% passenger capacity while bikes are at 50% capacity and some at 100%. I don't think I've ever seen a car at 100% capacity during my daily commutes in and out of the city.

Extract from Pg 7 of the Parking policy document.

.."Parking should support the compact city approach and promote the
efficient use of the road space resource to achieve sustainability
objectives (such as allocating road space for buses at peak times on
appropriate routes, identifying spaces for the use of car sharing clubs
and cycle parking)"

caseye

29th January 2011, 21:51

Give em heaps mate.Publishing something as outdated as that is just asking for trouble.
And Welly BRONZ are just the bother boys to give it em!.

StoneY

31st January 2011, 10:01

Ok we meet them tomorrow
This is a casual discussion pre-consultation process

Present will be
Me
Anthony from MAG
Cherie from WIMA
Peter from Ulysses
The owner of Scootrazi (dunno his name but Jess speaks highly of him)
A guy from Island Bay who sent me copies of his submissions, boy is he on our side and looks like he's smart too!

I will be reporting directly to the BRONZ Members tomorrow night at the Parrot n Jigger in Lower Hutt

Will reserve the Kiwibiker response for Wednesday

Cheers all

Better go stretch a bit and see if the gloves still fit methinks.............

cheshirecat

31st January 2011, 11:08

Seems we are not considered as a contributor to the compact city approach unlike buses, car sharing clubs and cycle parking. Even though the majority of cars travel into the city at 25% passenger capacity while bikes are at 50% capacity and some at 100%. I don't think I've ever seen a car at 100% capacity during my daily commutes in and out of the city.

Extract from Pg 7 of the Parking policy document.

.."Parking should support the compact city approach and promote the
efficient use of the road space resource to achieve sustainability
objectives (such as allocating road space for buses at peak times on
appropriate routes, identifying spaces for the use of car sharing clubs
and cycle parking)"

There's little if any mention of motorbikes in either their transportation or enviroment policies - only parking. I sense a Youtube video comming on.

StoneY

2nd February 2011, 09:23

Ok, initial meeting done

This was NOT a formal consultation (yet) and was a brief discussion on strategy and direction, a meeting of minds so to speak.
I for one was impressed at the approach they took, we were listened to and ASKED for input and advice.

Present for Motorcyclists was Peter Mac from Ulysses, Cherie Flintoff from WIMA (CherryB here on KB) and Anthony Foreman from MAG NZ.

Tentatively, we have an understanding that we will not LOSE any parking we curtrently have, although a reshuffle of locations and some area's with heavy retail focus MAY get time limited... guess thats a reality we need to face.

Council will push hard to all private parking providors to provide ecconomiccaly viable access (eg 50$ a month) which should include Gear Lockers, and low level access so we dont have to ride clutches up ramps.
This will not be used as a replacement for our existing free parking. BUT they are running out of options

Council is encouraging us (thats YOU and ME) to approach our employers in regards access to parking off street on company grounds where we can, to aleviate pressure on roadside parking.
They also were very open to us as a community finding locations suitable to be marked as Motorcycle parking - eg where we find spots no car could use but 2-3 bikes can - I made an exapmle with the space in Courtenay Place by the old public loo at Taranaki st, small paved culdesac no pedestrians ever use for ANYTHING - ideal 6 bike parking spot.

Jon Visser was present and his boss the Director of Infrastructure, both were amiccable and

We also had a member of the public present who seemed to want Wellingtons Footpaths turned into Parisian Cafe's!
He stormed out after a rant, was quite entertaining!
Only one nay sayer from Council was in the room, he saved up a bit of a serve on bike safety till the end.
We will be responding with some figures for this gentelman to ensure he gets his facts right.

I will be handing this issue off to Paul Ellen BRONZ Wgtn VP (Bald Eagle here on KB) and Byron Cummins BRONZ Wgtn (The_Dude) for future ongoing consultation as I have more than enough to do with ACC etc :)

I think we have made our point in the opening discussion and I was surprised how open to our input Council actually is in this matter (or seem to be)
The Petition definitely got some attention thats for sure!

Scuba_Steve

2nd February 2011, 09:42

I see the Spyder still likes to park in bikes parks (a bit more considerate now tho) but the council (or they're contractors) are starting to take photos of it, guess maybee they're trying to work out if it's supposed to be there or not too

StoneY

2nd February 2011, 10:14

I see the Spyder still likes to park in bikes parks (a bit more considerate now tho) but the council (or they're contractors) are starting to take photos of it, guess maybee they're trying to work out if it's supposed to be there or not too

My take on that is its registered as a CAR and should use a car space
Especially with our current fight

I have been meaning to drop a note on it but never anywhere nearbye....

buellbabe

2nd February 2011, 10:43

Blingedy bling bling to you Stoney! Even tho I don't live in Welly I signed the petition to support you guys cos as it was pointed out if Welly bikers lose parking spaces its only a matter of time before other councils follow suit. Kudos to you Stoney for standing up and being counted yet again:yes:

Scuba_Steve

2nd February 2011, 11:04

My take on that is its registered as a CAR and should use a car space
Especially with our current fight

I have been meaning to drop a note on it but never anywhere nearbye....

Well if the council (or their minions) are taking photos of it they might drop a note on it for you :innocent:

cheshirecat

2nd February 2011, 12:19

Ok, initial meeting done

This was NOT a formal consultation (yet) and was a brief discussion on strategy and direction, a meeting of minds so to speak.
I for one was impressed at the approach they took, we were listened to and ASKED for input and advice.

Present for Motorcyclists was Peter Mac from Ulysses, Cherie Flintoff from WIMA (CherryB here on KB) and Anthony Foreman from MAG NZ.

Tentatively, we have an understanding that we will not LOSE any parking we curtrently have, although a reshuffle of locations and some area's with heavy retail focus MAY get time limited... guess thats a reality we need to face.

Council will push hard to all private parking providors to provide ecconomiccaly viable access (eg 50$ a month) which should include Gear Lockers, and low level access so we dont have to ride clutches up ramps.
This will not be used as a replacement for our existing free parking. BUT they are running out of options

Council is encouraging us (thats YOU and ME) to approach our employers in regards access to parking off street on company grounds where we can, to aleviate pressure on roadside parking.
They also were very open to us as a community finding locations suitable to be marked as Motorcycle parking - eg where we find spots no car could use but 2-3 bikes can - I made an exapmle with the space in Courtenay Place by the old public loo at Taranaki st, small paved culdesac no pedestrians ever use for ANYTHING - ideal 6 bike parking spot.

Jon Visser was present and his boss the Director of Infrastructure, both were amiccable and

We also had a member of the public present who seemed to want Wellingtons Footpaths turned into Parisian Cafe's!
He stormed out after a rant, was quite entertaining!
Only one nay sayer from Council was in the room, he saved up a bit of a serve on bike safety till the end.
We will be responding with some figures for this gentelman to ensure he gets his facts right.

I will be handing this issue off to Paul Ellen BRONZ Wgtn VP (Bald Eagle here on KB) and Byron Cummins BRONZ Wgtn (The_Dude) for future ongoing consultation as I have more than enough to do with ACC etc :)

I think we have made our point in the opening discussion and I was surprised how open to our input Council actually is in this matter (or seem to be)
The Petition definitely got some attention thats for sure!

Encuraging stuff. Particularly intrigued by the fact they believe we are an community - which we are of course if you like herding stray cats - but it's nice to think they think can make contributions to the civic monolinth

Jon Visser

14th February 2011, 09:46

I like the proposal to have a forum on potential new spaces. Rather than lots of ad-hoc submissions, we should maintain a register of sites so that they only need to be proposed and considered once. Could also be good to have a guideline for proposing new sites, i.e. what to look for such as safety (sight lines and features that stop them from being walked/driven into), accessability (how bikes will get to/from the spaces without riding on footpaths) and demand (not just from riders but also other road users, e.g. rubbish collections, tree maintenance etc), and what not to bother asking for because it will be rejected. A simple submission form on our external website would be good, like we did for resident parking:
http://www.wellington.govt.nz/services/parking/pdfs/new-residents-area-request.pdf
I'll have a think about getting this added to our web site, and leave it up to this forum to consider starting a thread.

The Courtenay Place location will be looked into - we met recently to discuss the Courtenay Precinct in general and there are lots of things being considered, so I'm afraid there won't be any immediate response (i.e. it will all be addressed as a "package").

A coleague just advised we have made a change in Martin Square and there is now a parking space that is too small for a car, and he has observed a few scooters parked up on the footpath. A motorcycle parking bay has therefore been suggested as a suitable use for this space.

Jon Visser
Manager - Infrastructure Performance

StoneY

14th February 2011, 11:10

Thanks Jon
Very encouraging stuff indeed

As always thanks for the positive spin on making progress and including us all in such a pro-active manner

Brent

cheshirecat

14th February 2011, 18:37

Thanks Jon
Very encouraging stuff indeed

As always thanks for the positive spin on making progress and including us all in such a pro-active manner

BrentSo do we put a thread up here?

caseye

14th February 2011, 19:56

On you guys and girls of the Welly BRONZ Ulysses, Wima and MAG-NZ.
Also to Jon for taking an active(though not strictly speaking his baby anymore) part in proceedings.
This is a good outcome, so far.
I look forward to seeing you folk from Wellington really getting into this and providing Jon and his team with lots of alternatives that work for us all.

StoneY

14th February 2011, 19:58

So do we put a thread up here?

Unsure - I think one was already opened after the last thread in '09?
If not by all means run a new one

I think it would be a far more credible exercise for all if you actually opened it and made the FB link to mate

cheshirecat

14th February 2011, 20:29

done - even got the fing FB link to work

Bald Eagle

17th March 2011, 11:12

Well as we are all working towards obtaining mutually beneficial parking outcomes for Wellingtonians here's an interesting scenario.

A major corporate is currently occupying premises in the CBD. The site has some non car friendly internal space on two internal parking levels. Staff are permitted to park motorbikes in these spaces at no cost.

Said corporate is about to relocate into a refurbished building in the CBD. Staff have been replied to on enquirying that the following will apply.

 [I]"Motorcycles will share 3 bikes to a car park and will each pay a third of the costs which works out to be $1733.33 per annum/per person (the costs of a full car park is $5200). These are costs set by the landlord"

This breaks down to a return of $433.33/month for a parking space.

Commercial parking buildings operating in the CBD provide single bike parking with 24/7 access at a rate of $50.00/month.

This sort of corporate / landlord behaviour doesn't not help the commuting public or the council in attempting to manage a limited resource as people are more likely to be non compliant when 'compliant' behaviour becomes to costly.

Kendog

17th March 2011, 11:19

This sort of corporate / landlord behaviour doesn't not help the commuting public or the council in attempting to manage a limited resource as people are more likely to be non compliant when 'compliant' behaviour becomes to costly.
I would of thought that is helping to manage a limited resource. Low supply = high price to manage demand.
I am guessing the council would see this as an opportunity to promote public transport.

davebullet

17th March 2011, 11:40

Well as we are all working towards obtaining mutually beneficial parking outcomes for Wellingtonians here's an interesting scenario.

A major corporate is currently occupying premises in the CBD. The site has some non car friendly internal space on two internal parking levels. Staff are permitted to park motorbikes in these spaces at no cost.

Said corporate is about to relocate into a refurbished building in the CBD. Staff have been replied to on enquirying that the following will apply.

 [I]"Motorcycles will share 3 bikes to a car park and will each pay a third of the costs which works out to be $1733.33 per annum/per person (the costs of a full car park is $5200). These are costs set by the landlord"

This breaks down to a return of $433.33/month for a parking space.

Commercial parking buildings operating in the CBD provide single bike parking with 24/7 access at a rate of $50.00/month.

This sort of corporate / landlord behaviour doesn't not help the commuting public or the council in attempting to manage a limited resource as people are more likely to be non compliant when 'compliant' behaviour becomes to costly.

Just a small correction on your comparison - that's $144 not ($433) per bike per month compared to $50 per bike per month. I know you said "$433 per car parking space" - but that is for 3 bikes - right?

Still - nearly 3 times the price ($144 > $50) is crazy.

Bald Eagle

17th March 2011, 12:39

Irony, have just found out the landlord in the above example is "The Wellington Company."

Who also are in the Parking business (http://www.thewellingtoncompany.co.nz/carparks.html)

oneofsix

17th March 2011, 12:50

Just a small correction on your comparison - that's $144 not ($433) per bike per month compared to $50 per bike per month. I know you said "$433 per car parking space" - but that is for 3 bikes - right?

Still - nearly 3 times the price ($144 > $50) is crazy.

You are both right, Bald Eagle quoted $433 per SPACE per month whilst Dave has worked out the per BIKE per month price.

caseye

18th March 2011, 07:07

Either way it's a damnd disgrace.
I wonder, do they realistically expect their employees to pay $100.00 per week for the ability to park a car, at or near to their work?
Hope they are getting a damn big salary and doesn't it make you wonder, if they are paying big enough salaires to accomodate this they are damn well ripping off their own employees knowingly.

KevinD

21st March 2011, 11:40

WCC are reviewing the use of on-road motorcycle parking, which may include the introduction of fees / charges.

Do your bit by signing the "keep it free" petition:
http://www.wellington.govt.nz/haveyoursay/e-petitions/ep/details/147

Here is a link to the policy:
http://www.wellington.govt.nz/plans/policies/parking/pdfs/parking2007-09.pdf

The Policy was drafted September 2007 with an implementation timeframe of 3 - 5 years. The motorcycle section in question is on pg 28 which states:
"f. Review the provision for motorcycle parking,
including investigating issues such as quantity of
spaces, location, parking price and motorcycle
parking provision in town and suburban centres"

PS: Kudos and credit to BRONZ for organising this.

EDIT: Even if you aren't a Wellingtonian (I don't blame you, honest) - sign the petition. If parking fees for motorcycles goes ahead here, you can guarantee one council will set a precedent for other councils "justifying" fees to be a nationwide thing.

The whole problem here is if you have to pay, in many cases it also makes sense (convenience) to bring the car instead of the bike. Therefore there is one less car space, instead of a bike space. That a bit illogical to me if the objective is maximum optimization of parking space.

Reckless

21st March 2011, 12:02

The whole problem here is if you have to pay, in many cases it also makes sense (convenience) to bring the car instead of the bike. Therefore there is one less car space, instead of a bike space. That a bit illogical to me if the objective is maximum optimization of parking space.

You got that right a lot of bikers will elect to take the car if its raining or if they have sport or and appointment, if they have to pay! Charging bikes for parking might be the straw that breaks the camels back and they will join he que of people driving round and round looking for a park!
Charging bikers could well make their parking problems much worse! But do they really care?? Its about revenue and I bet they get council parks provided so they aren't effected.
They don't give a shit about ease of traffic movement or the cities parking availability to tourists, visitors or rate payers other wise they wouldn't be banging on and on about costs per parking space etc etc! Its about money and from a councils point of view it damn well shouldn't be, it should be about the good of the city!
And I say the above as a born and bred Wellingtonian!!

StoneY

21st March 2011, 12:33

We managed to get agreement at the opening 'csual conversation' meeting that we will not lose any of our existing free parking numbers (500 bike slots as it stands)

Might end up with some time limits here and there near heavy retail zones is the expected situation at this time, council have engaged on our behalf with the parking buildings to get fair prices and gear lockers arranged for those who desire secure off street parking -

cheshirecat

21st March 2011, 15:50

Is it my imagination or are there more mini bike parking places in welly?

StoneY

22nd March 2011, 07:49

Is it my imagination or are there more mini bike parking places in welly?

Yep, there are. Lots of small ones popping up and as we progress and theyre monitored, some will be selected as time limited

Its a start............

davebullet

22nd March 2011, 14:19

Is it my imagination or are there more mini bike parking places in welly?

Yup. Thanks for reminding me to buy more yellow paint :-)

StoneY

23rd March 2011, 07:20

Yup. Thanks for reminding me to buy more yellow paint :-)

LOL!
Jon Visser loves you man ;-)

apes

24th March 2011, 23:26

although you've got to love the 2 spaces limited to 2 hours on Lambton Quay that i've yet to see in use, whereas when they had no time limit they were always full during the working day, I'm currently waiting for a reply from the council on why this change was decided upon

StoneY

25th March 2011, 09:43

although you've got to love the 2 spaces limited to 2 hours on Lambton Quay that i've yet to see in use, whereas when they had no time limit they were always full during the working day, I'm currently waiting for a reply from the council on why this change was decided upon

For all the reasons placed in this very thread, and repeated more than once dude

A friend of mine from WIMA was late to a important meeting during the Bikeoi planning stages at Police Central because there was no available motorcycle parks - some area's are being set to time limits where major retail zones exist

Trade off is some parking buildings have been approached for reasonable day/weekly/monthly rates and other parking spaces opened near office oriented area's that allow all day parking

PM Jon Visser here on Kiwibiker, he can answer you better than I
Bald Eagle is our main liason on Parking Issues here in the city for BRONZ maybe PM him too

Cheers

James Deuce

25th March 2011, 10:25

although you've got to love the 2 spaces limited to 2 hours on Lambton Quay that i've yet to see in use, whereas when they had no time limit they were always full during the working day, I'm currently waiting for a reply from the council on why this change was decided upon

Because they want to get rid of them and replace them with metered carparks.

Duh.

apes

26th March 2011, 12:56

Because they want to get rid of them and replace them with metered carparks.

Duh.

We all know they want to tax us off the roads in Wellington, but here is the reply from the council

Hi Anthony,

Thank you for those comments.

The parking on Lambton Quay was converted from all day parking to time restricted parking as a trial to see what the demand was like. We get quite a few requests for time restricted parking. However, as you have noted and I have had some surveys done to monitor it the use seems to relatively insignificant.

In light of other responses I have had from the council with regards to the parking issues, we are now at the point where we need to let the council know we are not going away by backing up our negotiations with action, as it appears they are trying to use every excuse under the sun to claim we are an unsuitable form of transport to be used to travel into Wellington city and they would rather we all all got into cars putting even more pressure on the limited parking available in Wellington.
If anyone is interested in getting involved pm me, as I need to know there is the will to stand up for our right to free parking which assists the council in reducing congestion and emissions.

Ocean1

26th March 2011, 14:19

free parking which assists the council in reducing congestion and emissions.

The council doesn't want our help with any of that shit, they’re not in the slightest bit interested in congestion or emissions, in spite of the recent green infusion. They're apoplectic at the prospect of free parking.

Our help, therefore needs to be aimed at adjusting their attitude in this regard, 'cause nothing else is going to work. I wonder what useful wee items of environmental policy might be lurking in their wardrobe which they can be shown to be ignoring or outright hindering...

James Deuce

26th March 2011, 14:22

Can't be fucked being nice any more. Pipe bombs may be in order.

IdunBrokdItAgin

26th March 2011, 14:28

The parking on Lambton Quay was converted from all day parking to time restricted parking as a trial to see what the demand was like. We get quite a few requests for time restricted parking. However, as you have noted and I have had some surveys done to monitor it the use seems to relatively insignificant.

No surprise there then - I've always said that the need for time restricted bike parking, in Wellington CBD, is a bit of a red herring.

I haven't worked full-time in the CBD for a few months, but do ride there for the occasional meeting. I have always been able to find an available (non time restricted) bike park to use for a couple of hours, but I don't mind trawling round a few parks to find one - and walking 5 to 10 mins to the meeting if need be.

I'm glad that the council is just trialling them and monitoring the usage (or lack thereof).

apes

26th March 2011, 15:35

everything i am getting from the council at present points to an anti bike sentiment from those carrying out the said policy review, as such i think we need to become active and start showing them what problems we can cause within the law, I have some ideas and would welcome hearing from anyone else with some thoughts on the matter

apes

26th March 2011, 15:38

No surprise there then - I've always said that the need for time restricted bike parking, in Wellington CBD, is a bit of a red herring.

I haven't worked full-time in the CBD for a few months, but do ride there for the occasional meeting. I have always been able to find an available (non time restricted) bike park to use for a couple of hours, but I don't mind trawling round a few parks to find one - and walking 5 to 10 mins to the meeting if need be.

I'm glad that the council is just trialling them and monitoring the usage (or lack thereof).

Westminster City Council only trialled charging for bike parking and now it's permanent, remember anything the council says will be orchestrated to ensure thye try and keep us onside

James Deuce

26th March 2011, 16:14

Westminster City Council only trialled charging for bike parking and now it's permanent, remember anything the council says will be orchestrated to ensure thye try and keep us onside

Why? There's only 2 people who actually do anything to maintain the parking status quo. Everyone else just bitches about it and fades into the background when asked to actually make pipe bombs.

Ocean1

26th March 2011, 16:44

Everyone else just bitches about it and fades into the background when asked to actually make pipe bombs.

I used 24" schecule 80 linepipe 4 metres long with full penetration welded caps, like you said. There's a couple hundred pounds of train brake blocks in there with all that old jelly. Best you come collect them soon.

I'll be out.

James Deuce

26th March 2011, 16:49

Will do and thank you.

davebullet

27th March 2011, 07:52

Pipe bombs seem a bit drastic. Can we try stink bombs first? I can supply my own.

riffer

27th March 2011, 07:57

Pipe bombs most drastic. Hacksaws much more effective on meters.

cheshirecat

27th March 2011, 08:03

We could just turn up, bike block WCC doorstep and charge them for entering their building
(Oh an donate proceeds to the popular cause of the day)

apes

27th March 2011, 12:39

i was thinking of a couple of parking stunts to start off with to make them listen, pipe bombs have their use, but cause us to lose credibility with the public who lets be honest we'd rather have them on our side.
My initial stuns would be to use that area outside the council building as a bike park, well it is out of the way and wouldn't cause an obstruction to anyone.
I also like the idea of on a busy Saturday occupy all the short term parks near the shops, 1 bike per park of course, but unless a few hundred others will join me there is no point and I might as well accept we will have to pay to park in every town and city, the time to stop complaining and start doing something has come.

Nasty

27th March 2011, 13:20

i was thinking of a couple of parking stunts to start off with to make them listen, pipe bombs have their use, but cause us to lose credibility with the public who lets be honest we'd rather have them on our side.
My initial stuns would be to use that area outside the council building as a bike park, well it is out of the way and wouldn't cause an obstruction to anyone.
I also like the idea of on a busy Saturday occupy all the short term parks near the shops, 1 bike per park of course, but unless a few hundred others will join me there is no point and I might as well accept we will have to pay to park in every town and city, the time to stop complaining and start doing something has come.

Good luck to ya ... of course you have read the by-laws etc to make sure that you are fully aware of your rights, and what you can legally do.

and expect tickets ... even cars doing drop offs (of mainly staff) outside council there get tickets .. they have great cameras covering that area.

Maha

27th March 2011, 14:55

Why should owners of motorbikes not have to pay for thier parking?
If you were to add up the total amount of bikes that park in Wellington at any one time that number would significant, not to mention the total combined area taken up.

I would go as far saying the cost of parking a bike in Wellington (or any other city cbd for that matter) shouldbe considerably less than that of a car. About a third perhaps.

apes

27th March 2011, 15:42

Good luck to ya ... of course you have read the by-laws etc to make sure that you are fully aware of your rights, and what you can legally do.

and expect tickets ... even cars doing drop offs (of mainly staff) outside council there get tickets .. they have great cameras covering that area.

i'm counting on it, although i need to find out if it's public or private property, i'm hoping the latter, in which case it's a private prosecution and of course would be a waste of rate payers money

BMWST?

27th March 2011, 15:46

Why should owners of motorbikes not have to pay for thier parking?
If you were to add up the total amount of bikes that park in Wellington at any one time that number would significant, not to mention the total combined area taken up.

I would go as far saying the cost of parking a bike in Wellington (or any other city cbd for that matter) shouldbe considerably less than that of a car. About a third perhaps.

A third?....if the roads is a parrallel parking i would think that 5 or 6 bikes could park there angle parking maybe three

apes

27th March 2011, 16:03

Why should owners of motorbikes not have to pay for thier parking?
If you were to add up the total amount of bikes that park in Wellington at any one time that number would significant, not to mention the total combined area taken up.

I would go as far saying the cost of parking a bike in Wellington (or any other city cbd for that matter) shouldbe considerably less than that of a car. About a third perhaps.

first off in the developed world, which i consider New Zealand to be part of, bike parking is free of charge, i even know of some councils providing parking posts to secure your bike to.
secondly and the reason most countries offer parking for free is they assist in reducing congestion, and contribute in reducing the overall emissions released into the atmosphere during the rush hour commute. On both these issues the reductions are caused by most people who ride their bikes into a city for work do not want to give up their own personal space and transfer to public transport, as such if someone gets off their bike, they will most probably get into a car. generally the fuel consumption of a motorbike is going to be better than that of a car, and I have given comparable figures to the council, the emission from all the major manufactures will be comparable between cars and bikes, such that the bikes will be no less polluting per litre of fuel burnt, in fact for the journey they will be cleaner due to burning less fuel.
last of all but irrelevant to this topic I am PRO BIKE, I made the choice to ride bikes, in fact my bike is currently my own choice of transport, so wherever I can I will stand up for the rights of all bikers, unlike a certain forum I have the misfortune to sit, but that is a different story

Ocean1

27th March 2011, 16:05

Why should owners of motorbikes not have to pay for thier parking?

Because the council purchased a ticketing system not viable for motorcycles. In order that motorcycles had any parking at all they were forced to offer free parks.

They were the ones that decided it was all too difficult to deal with what amounts to not only a minority but a politically non-threatening one at that. Fuckem, they made their bed, they can lie in it.

apes

27th March 2011, 16:06

A third?....if the roads is a parrallel parking i would think that 5 or 6 bikes could park there angle parking maybe three

and if that piece of road or pavement is out of the way and not suitable for parking a car in, why not turn the space over to bikes for free, as it's not removing any revenue from the council

apes

27th March 2011, 16:22

for those of you interested, below are numbers of bike park space provided in a number of European cities, whilst Westminster now charges for some (which is currently part of a High Court review), remember this is only a very small part of London

City of Westminster 6245 spaces, population 236,000
Central Paris approx 35000 spaces (all free) although these are shared with cyclists and if scaled down to Wellingtons population equates to 1700 equivalent spaces
Amsterdam has no specific bike parks, but you can park where you like for free, how very Dutch
Stockholm has between 75 and 100 spaces
Reykjavik has no bike spaces
with regards to Stockholm and Reykjavik they only have about 3 months decent riding a year, and I don't mean because of rain, but due to ice and daylight
So yes I do think Wellington and other NZ towns can do better

Maha

27th March 2011, 16:50

A third?....if the roads is a parrallel parking i would think that 5 or 6 bikes could park there angle parking maybe three

Yes three= 1/3.
Dont kid yourself, not to many bikesr would want to squeeze extra in to thier bike space.
How many Goldwings would fit into a normal sized parrallel park?
Five or Six GN's at a push but lets be serious here, any time an Action or even a non-action group get involed, its one bike per car park right?

Thats why I beleive that 1/3 is on the money and accurate.

Out of curiosity, how many signatures on the petition so far?
4260....just looked for myself.

apes

27th March 2011, 20:22

Yes three= 1/3.
Dont kid yourself, not to many bikesr would want to squeeze extra in to thier bike space.
How many Goldwings would fit into a normal sized parrallel park?
Five or Six GN's at a push but lets be serious here, any time an Action or even a non-action group get involed, its one bike per car park right?

Thats why I beleive that 1/3 is on the money and accurate.

Out of curiosity, how many signatures on the petition so far?
4260....just looked for myself.

The reason I use the idea of one bike per car park is based on the belief if you make it too expensive for the pure commuters, which a good number of them are, they will get off their bikes and back into their cars meaning the council then have a serious problem, where do we put all these cars and then there's all the planned building for Kapati.

Yes I believe if these space were converted to car bays you would lose between 3 and 5 spaces per bay, we are talking parallel on street bay which normally can take a commodore so should take 4 wings parked side by side, albeit further out into the road, when parked on their side stand. I accept these would be closely parked and with some riders parking abilities you may be lucky to get 3 bikes parked, but normally in Wellie 5 shouldn't be out of the question

Maha

27th March 2011, 20:49

The reason I use the idea of one bike per car park is based on the belief if you make it too expensive for the pure commuters, which a good number of them are, they will get off their bikes and back into their cars meaning the council then have a serious problem, where do we put all these cars and then there's all the planned building for Kapati.

Yes I believe if these space were converted to car bays you would lose between 3 and 5 spaces per bay, we are talking parallel on street bay which normally can take a commodore so should take 4 wings parked side by side, albeit further out into the road, when parked on their side stand. I accept these would be closely parked and with some riders parking abilities you may be lucky to get 3 bikes parked, but normally in Wellie 5 shouldn't be out of the question

That scenario has been used for a while now, perhaps first used back in 09' for the first time and for the same reason you give, except for the Kapiti bit.

apes

27th March 2011, 21:36

That scenario has been used for a while now, perhaps first used back in 09' for the first time and for the same reason you give, except for the Kapiti bit.

At work we have a number of commuters who come in by bike from Kapiti purely on a cost basis, for them riding a 250cc is cheaper than using public transport, including the running costs, and like driving is quicker than using public transport, including the train, the travelling time from door to door by bike is 45 minutes quicker than taking the train from Paraparaumu, which although not part of Wellington city is part of Greater Wellington, then on top of this you have to add the travelling time to and from the station either end, so if we price these guys off their bikes, where will they go not onto the train because they value their time with their families greater than the cost saving in the train

Bald Eagle

27th March 2011, 22:06

Well I commute daily from Raumati to the city and currently have the benefit of on site parking for my bike ( but likely to change shortly ). I will never choose public transport as it is neither time nor cost effective.

James Deuce

28th March 2011, 09:14

At work we have a number of commuters who come in by bike from Kapiti purely on a cost basis, for them riding a 250cc is cheaper than using public transport, including the running costs, and like driving is quicker than using public transport, including the train, the travelling time from door to door by bike is 45 minutes quicker than taking the train from Paraparaumu, which although not part of Wellington city is part of Greater Wellington, then on top of this you have to add the travelling time to and from the station either end, so if we price these guys off their bikes, where will they go not onto the train because they value their time with their families greater than the cost saving in the train

I don't think they're being honest about their running costs, or they aren't maintaining their bikes to the same level I woul dmy own.

Bald Eagle

28th March 2011, 09:23

I don't think they're being honest about their running costs, or they aren't maintaining their bikes to the same level I woul dmy own.

I think they may be using a differential cost in as much as compliance costs and maintenance largely exists if you own the motorcycle.
It's the direct cash flow difference between fuel and public transport ticket prices. In my case $80+ per week for a ten trip versus $45 for fuel a week.

James Deuce

28th March 2011, 09:34

I think they may be using a differential cost in as much as compliance costs and maintenance largely exists if you own the motorcycle.
It's the direct cash flow difference between fuel and public transport ticket prices. In my case $80+ per week for a ten trip versus $45 for fuel a week.

I find that a delusional way of measuring the costs. The overall running costs are significantly higher than just petrol. You only need a valve adjustment service and you've just spent 3 months worth of petrol.

cheshirecat

28th March 2011, 09:56

Its not just running costs. A while ago I had to get to Upper Hutt and back from Seatoun via public transport - it took the best part of 4 hours having just missed the train by a couple of mins. I could see why the train was almost empty and the whole experince was like some endless plodding rambling dream from the 60's. Getting across town involves 3 buses and an all day bus pass is more expensive than an all day central London pass.
Welly is just a small town and doesn't really have a traffic problem by my standards but it has the red tape and compliance costs of a mega burocracy and they make traffic a problem. I been to plenty of places where the density is far higher and they just get on with it -it self sorts itself out.

WCC have just put up car parking by a $1 so $5 an hour so cover their own made deficit so thats about $4 mil out of the Welly enconomy disappearing into the drain of WCC's coffers - There's a recession on but they don't seem to realise what is. I mean what is their contribution to reducing overhead and costs?

Eyegasm

28th March 2011, 10:11

I find that a delusional way of measuring the costs. The overall running costs are significantly higher than just petrol. You only need a valve adjustment service and you've just spent 3 months worth of petrol.

So I live in Wainuiomata (Yeah I know poor me)

Public transport costs
$170 Per month (Month Pass, Bus and Train) $2040 Per annum.
1Hr-1 1/2 Hrs travel time

Bike Cost
50km Return trip per day, 13000km Per annum
Service every 4K, $250-300. $750-900 Per annum
Petrol 400km/17l @ $2.20 per litre = $1215.50 Per annum
Tyres Conti Road attack 2, 2 sets $1200 (est)
+Parking costs $600 (Yes I pay to park)
20-30 Minutes travel time.

So bike costs are more expensive and I didn't cover everything needed.
$2040 (Public Transport) compared to $3900+ (Bike)

But the time saved has much more value than the difference in costs.

James Deuce

28th March 2011, 10:12

Its not just running costs.

For some people. Even if I was well enough to ride I couldn't afford to run a bike at present. I have very few issues with public transport. I think the infrequent hiccups get blown out of proportion.

James Deuce

28th March 2011, 10:16

So I live in Wainuiomata (Yeah I know poor me)

Public transport costs
$170 Per month (Month Pass, Bus and Train) $2040 Per annum.
1Hr-1 1/2 Hrs travel time

Bike Cost
50km Return trip per day, 13000km Per annum
Service every 4K, $250-300. $750-900 Per annum
Petrol 400km/17l @ $2.20 per litre = $1215.50 Per annum
Tyres Conti Road attack 2, 2 sets $1200 (est)
+Parking costs $600 (Yes I pay to park)
20-30 Minutes travel time.

So bike costs are more expensive and I didn't cover everything needed.
$2040 (Public Transport) compared to $3900+ (Bike)

But the time saved has much more value than the difference in costs.

I understand your priorities. Mine are different.

I think your costs are still light. I used to spend between $4500 and $7000 a year to run a bike, depending what types of service popped up on the schedule. I spend about $3500 on my Ka. I spend $2500 on bus and train and that's a flat cost. I don't get surprise charges on public transport except when they have a breakdown and then don't clip your ticket.

Bald Eagle

28th March 2011, 10:18

For some people. Even if I was well enough to ride I couldn't afford to run a bike at present. I have very few issues with public transport. I think the infrequent hiccups get blown out of proportion.

I don't think the stats for their own performance indicators ( % of trains arriving./departing within +/- 3 minutes of timetable ) would qualify as an infrequent hiccup.

Bald Eagle

28th March 2011, 10:25

Transmetros own info here (http://www.tranzmetro.co.nz/OnTimePerformance.aspx) for Feburary.

Performance by line

Johnsonville Line – 82% on time
Kapiti Line – 77% on time
Upper Hutt Line – 83% on time
Wairarapa Line – 73% on time

bogan

28th March 2011, 10:25

How come it's gone to bikes vs public transportation, are they going to replace the bike parks with bus stops or something? When discussing on street parking surely it comes down to bikes vs cars? or from the WCCs point of view, do we want more cars or bikes?

Eyegasm

28th March 2011, 10:28

I think your costs are still light. I used to spend between $4500 and $7000 a year to run a bike, depending what types of service popped up on the schedule.

I'm pretty sure those costs are calculated right.

I honestly couldn't tell you what the running cost would be if I only used my bike for
getting to and from work. Considering I do about 40,000Km a year, Bike gets a service almost monthly and new tyres every 3 months.

Wow... Actually calculating how much I spend on riding... I should really cut down my riding time...

Nah, Fuck that for a joke...:scooter::scooter::scooter:

Bald Eagle

28th March 2011, 10:29

Johnsonville line has met their 95% target 5 months out of the last 12 Feb - to Feb .
The other lines have never met target at anytime in the last 12 months.

Forget the cost they are excluded as an option because their unreliability puts your employment at risk.

James Deuce

28th March 2011, 11:02

Transmetros own info here (http://www.tranzmetro.co.nz/OnTimePerformance.aspx) for Feburary.

Performance by line

Johnsonville Line – 82% on time
Kapiti Line – 77% on time
Upper Hutt Line – 83% on time
Wairarapa Line – 73% on time

It doesn't actually worry me in the slightest. I arrive at the train station between 6:15am and 7am, get on a train, work however long I need to, wander to the train station and get the next available train home.

Timetables are for the anal people.

Bald Eagle

28th March 2011, 11:05

Timetables are for the anal people.

..and for people whose employer specifies their hours of work.

Jon Visser

28th March 2011, 12:20

Hi all,

Some people are still very fired up about something, but I have some difficulty understanding why their frustration is directed at the Council. Sorry for the long post, but some people may actually be interested in understanding the facts rather than perpetuating historical/urban myths.

* Council has already indicated that we are not considering applying fees to the existing "free" spaces, though they may be relocated around the place and could be time-limited to encourage turnover in order to meet rider demand. "Free" on-road parking bays for motorcycles have been around for a lot longer than we have had Pay & Display parking. There will always be parts of the road that cannot be utilised for any other purpose and where there is no demand for casual parking so we have already agreed that there is nothing wrong with allocating such space as unrestricted motorcycle parking (as other similar cities have done). Is this not what you want?

* Council has agreed that some small spaces that can't be used for car parking but can be used for motorcycles will be signposted and marked as such. Many have been done already and more have been identified and scheduled to go in. If you check you will find that the total available space is now more like 550 (depending on how people park :-). During the past two years we have added over 20 new bays and only reduced one in size (Mercer St). Does that not prove we deliver what you want?

* Council is currently reviewing the Traffic Bylaw and one of the items being reviewed is the one restricting motorcycles from using Pay & Display spaces. Reversing this could address the shortage of casual parking spaces, taking pressure off the other bays and allowing people greater freedom to select their preferred mode of transport into the city. If we simply make it up to the riders to ensure that they securely display their receipt in a prominent place (or get ticketed) I'm sure they can come up with some clever ways of doing so. In fact, I will even try to have the Bylaw modified to state that two (or more?) motorcycles chained together in the same space can be covered by the same receipt (thereby maximising space utilisation and minimisng costs to riders). This will all go out for public consultation so everyone can have their say - a report is tentatively scheduled to go to Council in May 2011. Is this not what you have asked for?

* There will always be people that assume everything is to do with money. I can happily and confidently say that this particular issue has nothing at all to do with "revenue gathering" and totally to do with the fair allocation of a limited resource that is in high demand by different parts of the community - kerbside parking space. Money could be considered a "tool" to manage turnover (fees or fines). Therefore money may be a key factor for riders, who need to consider the relative costs & amenities for the different modes of transport they can use. But the Council has no significant financial interests in this matter. For example, if a few spaces were converted from motorcycle to P&D car parking, the extra revenue less the costs to make the change (and deal with the likely protests that would ensue :-) would be trivial in the big scheme of things. Also, if metered motorcycle parking was introduced, the additional revenue less the costs to introduce and administer this would be negligible compared to the trouble that this would create. It would therefore make infinitely more sense for the Council to achieve the desired outcome (more effective and fair utilisation of space) through different tools such as allowing motorcycles to use existing P&D spaces, time-restricting spaces and encouraging riders to use off-road facilities instead. Does that not make more sense?

So what are people upset about? Or is it just a few individuals that don't understand/believe that the Council is actually working with riders to address their concerns?

Riders need to understand that they are competing with increasing numbers of other riders and drivers for access to limited on-road space. Riders should see the Council as the "referee", not the opponent. The game is working out where best each party should park to carry out their desired activity, within a very constrained playing field, and then applying the 3Es (engineering, education & enforcement) to get all the parties to play safely & fairly with each other. Even in sports, each team may only have a certain number of players on the field (even though there is plenty of room for more :-). What can you do to "win"? Understand the constraints of the playing field, then look at the needs of your competitors and find a "better" solution for them...

Kind regards,

Jon Visser
Infrastructure Performance Manager
Wellington City Council

Maha

28th March 2011, 12:28

'So what are people upset about? Or is it just a few individuals that don't understand/believe that the Council is actually working with riders to address their concerns'?

The motorcycling community band wagon is extremely long and the guns should notbe placed at such regular intervals.
Great post Jon Visser.

James Deuce

28th March 2011, 12:31

So what are people upset about? Or is it just a few individuals that don't understand/believe that the Council is actually working with riders to address their concerns?

This bit. So far in the last couple of years Central Government have screwed us whilst our "representatives" have claimed that they haven't. I see no reason for Local Government not to continue the trend, especially as there are no strong drivers for Local Government to provide anything for motorcyclists and our "representatives" seem to have done a great deal of talking with no outcome other than a slight reduction in the number of "free" motorcycle parks and the advent of limited time motorcycle parks which simply don't get used, combined with some dubious charging by some parking companies in regard to motorcycles.

Swoop

28th March 2011, 12:55

Pipe bombs most drastic. Hacksaws much more effective on meters.
This is far easier...
235474
Silent and deadly to any parking meter.

Yup. Thanks for reminding me to buy more yellow paint :-)
Isn't it remarkable what a little paint and a home-made stencil can do.:blip::yes:

cheshirecat

28th March 2011, 19:05

Hi all,

Riders need to understand that they are competing with increasing numbers of other riders and drivers for access to limited on-road space. Riders should see the Council as the "referee", not the opponent. The game is working out where best each party should park to carry out their desired activity, within a very constrained playing field, and then applying the 3Es (engineering, education & enforcement) to get all the parties to play safely & fairly with each other. Even in sports, each team may only have a certain number of players on the field (even though there is plenty of room for more :-). What can you do to "win"? Understand the constraints of the playing field, then look at the needs of your competitors and find a "better" solution for them...

Kind regards,

Jon Visser
Infrastructure Performance Manager
Wellington City Council
Cool to see you back -thought you'd gone into 'council cloud'

Good post - One of the biggest hindrences to MC parking is not being allowed on pavements or other similar areas. Now motorised parking on P's is against the road code but are there ways for facilities on wide pavements (crt pl near Saatchi's) which wouldn't obstruct pedestrain flow.

Also are there initiatives the MC community could help WCC and W public generally (ie masive earthquake or tsuami.) - hypothec of course.

As a personal view I appreciate the concept of mini bike parks -the extra noticed have really helped and cut down no end of time doing circuits and bumps

cheshirecat

3rd April 2011, 19:39

Posssible aid to motorcycle parking - park nose to curb not paralllel

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/News/newsresults/General-news/2011/April/apr0111RiderstoldParkforfreethenfined/

Jon Visser

4th April 2011, 10:41

One of the biggest hindrences to MC parking is not being allowed on pavements or other similar areas. Now motorised parking on P's is against the road code but are there ways for facilities on wide pavements (crt pl near Saatchi's) which wouldn't obstruct pedestrain flow.

Our goal is to ensure that there are places on the road that are available for casual parking of motorcycles and scooters, so that there is no need to park on the footpath. Footpaths are used for a lot of things, not just walking from A to B, and stationary motorcycles do get in the way of those other activities even if riders do not realise this. It is not just the space, but also the ability to get safely in & out.

Also are there initiatives the MC community could help WCC and W public generally (ie masive earthquake or tsuami.) - hypothec of course.

Yes - off-road vehicles like trailbikes may come in useful for carrying out damage assessments or to relay communications when roads become inaccessible. In the past we have had nothing formal in place as trying to contact a long list of individuals (some of whom may be incapacitated or not have access to phones themselves) is difficult under those circumstances. However, if there is an off-road/trailbiking club that our Wellington Emergency Management Office can include on its "useful contacts list" (especially those in the Hutt or Porirua) that would be great (in fact, we may have this already). WEMO can then deal with just the club (if reachable) and the club can then locate its people and advise WEMO what resources are available and how they can be contacted. We're doing the same with taxi companies & 4WD clubs - if someone can send me a PM with contact details that would be great.

riffer

11th May 2011, 18:59

Shameless bump guys.

We present the epetition to WCC tomorrow. (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/137866-See-BRONZ-in-action-in-Wellington-12-5-11-Wellington-Mcycle-Petition-Presentation?p=1130060007#post1130060007)

Simon
BRONZ Wellington Media Liaison

StoneY

12th May 2011, 13:04

Please see other thread (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/137866-See-BRONZ-in-action-in-Wellington-12-5-11-Wellington-Mcycle-Petition-Presentation?p=1130060625#post1130060625)

nudemetalz

23rd June 2011, 12:20

Jon has posted a thread about WCC clamping down on parking...
Moderators may want to move it here...

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/106738-Wellington-Parking-They-are-about-to-clamp-down-on-bike-parking?p=1130092238

StoneY

23rd June 2011, 13:15

Jon has posted a thread about WCC clamping down on parking...
Moderators may want to move it here...

nah mate no need to merge the threads it would break the continuity of both thread chains

Jon has another thread somewhere here that we can place 'requests' to consider spots as officially sanctioned bike parks

I saw the new spaces appearing in the Featherston St side roads and was very much impressed with the positive response from Council to our efforts to work with them in finding a workable solution to decreasing curb space and increasing bike numbers

caseye

23rd June 2011, 17:41

Now that sounds positively Positive! nice work there those who were behind the scenes.
And to Jon, many thanks for listening and making changes where you can.

ELectronicFlesh

22nd March 2013, 13:37

Having looked around online I can't seem to find any information on if motorcycle parking is still free in Wellington, do any of you know if it still is? And if so, are there any places to park around Wellington station?
Apologies for the bump. Cheers!

mrchips

22nd March 2013, 14:08

are there any places to park around Wellington station?

Yip, if you get in early there are plenty of free designated motorcycle parking.... http://wellington.govt.nz/~/media/maps/files/mcycle-parking.pdf