Excuses Excuses Excuses Blame Blame Blame

[Katman]

Now sure killing someone else is not cool, but get the fuck off telling me that I can't kill myself.

Trouble is Noel, it's all the motorcyclists killing themselves or fucking themselves up that has bought the power of shit down on us.

[Mad-V2]

No no, Its the government overspending on cycle routes thats done it. They need to get the money from somewhere, coz cyclists sure ain't gonna pay for it :msn-wink:

[miloking]

Do you want to kill yourself?

Please do on a track day if you really have to.

No dont! It ruins rest of the afternoon, likely resulting in whole session wasted in needing oil and shit all over the track cleaned up, which will just piss me off since there isnt many track days available as it is so we are all trying to make most of it...so do it on some quiet road where you wont cause much damage and traffic jam :)

[Spearfish]

No dont! It ruins rest of the afternoon, likely resulting in whole session wasted in needing oil and shit all over the track cleaned up, which will just piss me off since there isnt many track days available as it is so we are all trying to make most of it...so do it on some quiet road where you wont cause much damage and traffic jam :)

not to mention having to go off your best line into a series of bends to just miss the carcass.

your a hard man miloking

[The Stranger]

Trouble is Noel, it's all the motorcyclists killing themselves or fucking themselves up that has bought the power of shit down on us.

And you now you know pretty much what I think of changing my actions because of the effect on others.
That may sound selfish, but I then I happen to think others imposing their beliefs on me is wrong too.

[SPman]

Sure they are worse, but slower. And dogs are dumber and less predictable.

sometimes...
and we won't mention kangaroos........although turkeys can be a trial.....

[DEATH_INC.]

and we won't mention kangaroos........although turkeys can be a trial.....
Wombats, roo's nothing compared to them.

[Edbear]

Trouble is Noel, it's all the motorcyclists killing themselves or fucking themselves up that has bought the power of shit down on us.

Stop this, you're making it harder for me to disagree with you! :bleh:


And you now you know pretty much what I think of changing my actions because of the effect on others.
That may sound selfish, but I then I happen to think others imposing their beliefs on me is wrong too.

Ahhh, yeah... kinda does at that... :blink:

[The Stranger]

Ahhh, yeah... kinda does at that... :blink:

Well the way I see it (in no particular order) is this.

It's not unlike terrorism. Do this or we'll fuck your mate/s up.
You don't give in to terrorism easily do you?

All my life I have made my own decisions about the stuff that affects me.
I don't need no hypocritical church or government to tell me right from wrong, I know it better than either of them.
So anyone who tries to take away my responsibility for my decisions is going to get met with resistance.

All too frequently politicians forget why they are there and who is meant to be serving who. The American constitution recognises this and even provides for the means of changing government by force if necessary. Followers can be very dangerous, How far would Hitler have got if his followers had not followed him? If they had instead said screw you I'm not killing all those Jews. I despise those who blindly follow without question.
Governments and laws should not blindly be obeyed (followed). If a law is wrong I'm pretty much going to ignore it, skirt it, flout it - depending on it's impact. If a group of people wish to hoon around the countryside killing themselves in the act it's not the governments business - it's the will of the people that they are there to serve.

I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees.

[Edbear]

Well the way I see it (in no particular order) is this.

It's not unlike terrorism. Do this or we'll fuck your mate/s up.
You don't give in to terrorism easily do you?

All my life I have made my own decisions about the stuff that affects me.
I don't need no hypocritical church or government to tell me right from wrong, I know it better than either of them.
So anyone who tries to take away my responsibility for my decisions is going to get met with resistance.

All too frequently politicians forget why they are there and who is meant to be serving who. The American constitution recognises this and even provides for the means of changing government by force if necessary. Followers can be very dangerous, How far would Hitler have got if his followers had not followed him? If they had instead said screw you I'm not killing all those Jews. I despise those who blindly follow without question.
Governments and laws should not blindly be obeyed (followed). If a law is wrong I'm pretty much going to ignore it, skirt it, flout it - depending on it's impact. If a group of people wish to hoon around the countryside killing themselves in the act it's not the governments business - it's the will of the people that they are there to serve.

I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees.

It was the way you worded it that got my attention... "...changing my actions because of the effect on others" Certainly we should be educated and responsible for ourselves and not blindly follow the will of others regardless. But we also need to accept we live in a society where our actions have an impact on others and need to accept we cannot always do as we please whether we agree with something or not. The Govt. has to make laws to account for all citizens, not just one individual, and we can either opt out of society and go and live on an island where we are the law unto ourselves, or live within our society and accept personal limitations for the good of all.

[The Stranger]

It was the way you worded it that got my attention... "...changing my actions because of the effect on others" Certainly we should be educated and responsible for ourselves and not blindly follow the will of others regardless. But we also need to accept we live in a society where our actions have an impact on others and need to accept we cannot always do as we please whether we agree with something or not. The Govt. has to make laws to account for all citizens, not just one individual, and we can either opt out of society and go and live on an island where we are the law unto ourselves, or live within our society and accept personal limitations for the good of all.

Yes the wording was poor. I had just been through the principal in great detail and was going for brevity in that post.

[Ocean1]

Well the way I see it ...

Damn. Just as I figure these halls are filled with idiots one of 'em wipes chin and utters THE WORD.

Greenstuff.

[BoristheBiter]

Well the way I see it (in no particular order) is this.

It's not unlike terrorism. Do this or we'll fuck your mate/s up.
You don't give in to terrorism easily do you?

All my life I have made my own decisions about the stuff that affects me.
I don't need no hypocritical church or government to tell me right from wrong, I know it better than either of them.
So anyone who tries to take away my responsibility for my decisions is going to get met with resistance.

All too frequently politicians forget why they are there and who is meant to be serving who. The American constitution recognises this and even provides for the means of changing government by force if necessary. Followers can be very dangerous, How far would Hitler have got if his followers had not followed him? If they had instead said screw you I'm not killing all those Jews. I despise those who blindly follow without question.
Governments and laws should not blindly be obeyed (followed). If a law is wrong I'm pretty much going to ignore it, skirt it, flout it - depending on it's impact. If a group of people wish to hoon around the countryside killing themselves in the act it's not the governments business - it's the will of the people that they are there to serve.

I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees.

I am sorry but what an arse attitude to have.
When was the last US government overthrown? thats right never.

Could imagine what our society would be like if everyone had your attitude?
Unless you would be quite happy to live with anarchy.:weird:

Governments are put there by the people for the people not just one dickhead who thinks he is better than everyone else

[avgas]

230104...................

[The Stranger]

Could imagine what our society would be like if everyone had your attitude?
Unless you would be quite happy to live with anarchy.:weird:


You mean a society were people are generous with their time and money, courteous and respectful and the inhabitants have a firm sense of right and wrong, respect teh sanctity of life, work hard, have never been on the dole and always pay their way. Where their kids are bought up with love as constructive responsible members of society.

Yes I can see that this kind of society is totally beyond your comprehension.

[The Stranger]

Damn. Just as I figure these halls are filled with idiots one of 'em wipes chin and utters THE WORD.

Greenstuff.

Then within minutes you awake to find...


I am sorry but what an arse attitude to have.
When was the last US government overthrown? thats right never.

Could imagine what our society would be like if everyone had your attitude?
Unless you would be quite happy to live with anarchy.:weird:

Governments are put there by the people for the people not just one dickhead who thinks he is better than everyone else

Alas it was only a dream.

[miloking]

You mean a society were people are generous with their time and money, courteous and respectful and the inhabitants have a firm sense of right and wrong, respect teh sanctity of life, work hard, have never been on the dole and always pay their way. Where their kids are bought up with love as constructive responsible members of society.

Yes I can see that this kind of society is totally beyond your comprehension.


Dont let Boris troll you...you will soon learn that for him people that dont share his views of police state utopia are anarchists and people that have strong opinions are keyboard warriors...

[Mad-V2]

I wonder what peoples attitudes here will be when the government decides to have random OSH visit's to your house, and tell you how to live safely there aswell.

[Scuba_Steve]

Dont let Boris troll you...you will soon learn that for him people that dont share his views of police state utopia are anarchists and people that have strong opinions are keyboard warriors...

ahh that explains him, cheers :niceone:

[Katman]

I wonder what peoples attitudes here will be when the government decides to have random OSH visit's to your house, and tell you how to live safely there aswell.

So by showing no self control while you're riding your bike you're teaching the government a lesson???

:weird:

[BoristheBiter]

Dont let Boris troll you...you will soon learn that for him people that dont share his views of police state utopia are anarchists and people that have strong opinions are keyboard warriors...

Only you dick head

[BoristheBiter]

You mean a society were people are generous with their time and money, courteous and respectful and the inhabitants have a firm sense of right and wrong, respect teh sanctity of life, work hard, have never been on the dole and always pay their way. Where their kids are bought up with love as constructive responsible members of society.

Yes I can see that this kind of society is totally beyond your comprehension.

Why do you think that?
Thats not what you were saying.

"If a law is wrong I'm pretty much going to ignore it, skirt it, flout it - depending on it's impact. If a group of people wish to hoon around the countryside killing themselves in the act it's not the governments business - it's the will of the people that they are there to serve."

Who's right or wrong? yours mine? milokings? the voted in government of the day?

[Mad-V2]

So by showing no self control while you're riding your bike you're teaching the government a lesson???

:weird:

What has that comment got to do with my last comment. Like I said earlier, I don't speed for fun or to prove a point or to teach anyone a lesson, I just speed.
You still did not answer my question.
If an OSH inspector knocked on your door and said they were there to check you were living in a safe environment, and to check there were no obvious hazards that put yours, or your families lives in danger. What would you say to this caring OSH Inspector?

[avgas]

I wonder what peoples attitudes here will be when the government decides to have random OSH visit's to your house, and tell you how to live safely there aswell.
I would tell them to fuck off until they have enclosed shoes, long sleeved clothes, safety glasses and a hi-viz vest. Just like I did last time they tried me on for size at the work place. I have no problem with OSH now.....now that they realize I have been dealing Health and safety for longer than they have.
Its workcover I fear(ed)..... Imagine OSH, but ABOVE the law and courts.........quite possibly the dumbest idea I could think of really. And to make matters worse they hire grads whom don't have a clue.

Like giving a Tourette's Kid a record label really.

[The Stranger]

Dont let Boris troll you...you will soon learn that for him people that dont share his views of police state utopia are anarchists and people that have strong opinions are keyboard warriors...

It's all good. I love his kind.
We've never met, yet he thinks he knows my character. He simply fills in what he doesn't know with his experiences and frames of reference and assumes he's right, then proceeds to base his responses on his assumptions as if it were fact. You know what they say about assumption?
Assumption is the mother of all fuck ups.
Well they obviously hadn't met boris mother when they made up that saying.

[The Stranger]

Why do you think that?
Thats not what you were saying.

"If a law is wrong I'm pretty much going to ignore it, skirt it, flout it - depending on it's impact. If a group of people wish to hoon around the countryside killing themselves in the act it's not the governments business - it's the will of the people that they are there to serve."

Who's right or wrong? yours mine? milokings? the voted in government of the day?

Reading comprehension is not your strong point is it?

[R-Soul]

Racers like Rossi are riding on the knife edge on a race track with safety barriers and kitty litter, thats why they fall off. Because they can do it without hitting tree's, fences or other road users. If any of us were as fast as him, we would be on the telly racing.
People should know their limits on the road, and ride within them. Some peoples limits are well above the speed limits, and some people find 100kph really fast. You can push the boundaries on the track, but never take chances on the road. Always ride WITHIN your limits. Common sense really.

Its more than that - its riding within the limitations of the anticipated worst case scenario, where your own limits mean nothing.

[BoristheBiter]

It's all good. I love his kind.
We've never met, yet he thinks he knows my character. He simply fills in what he doesn't know with his experiences and frames of reference and assumes he's right, then proceeds to base his responses on his assumptions as if it were fact. You know what they say about assumption?
Assumption is the mother of all fuck ups.
Well they obviously hadn't met boris mother when they made up that saying.

the same could be said about you.:finger:

[Mad-V2]

Its more than that - its riding within the limitations of the anticipated worst case scenario, where your own limits mean nothing.

riding within the limitations of the anticipated worst case scenario.
That would make the speed limit unsafe.
There could be a car/cow/baby in the middle of the road around any blind corner, I should do 30kph everywhere I go just in case.

[The Stranger]

the same could be said about you.:finger:

Could be, except I've made no assumptions about your character so it would be lies - but don't let that stop you now.
Though I must admit, when you make assumptions about my character it speaks volumes about yours as people invariably fill in the blanks with their own frame of reference (hence all the arguments on KB).

[Katman]

riding within the limitations of the anticipated worst case scenario.
That would make the speed limit unsafe.
There could be a car/cow/baby in the middle of the road around any blind corner, I should do 30kph everywhere I go just in case.

It's a basic WOF requirement that your brakes can stop your bike within 7 metres from 30kph.

How many blind corners do you know of that only allow 7 metres visibility around them?

[The Stranger]

riding within the limitations of the anticipated worst case scenario.
That would make the speed limit unsafe.
There could be a car/cow/baby in the middle of the road around any blind corner, I should do 30kph everywhere I go just in case.

Pretty much. You are supposed to be able to stop in the distance of clear road in front of you. If you crest a hill and there's a shipping container on the other side of the crest, you are expected to be able to stop in time.

[BoristheBiter]

Could be, except I've made no assumptions about your character so it would be lies - but don't let that stop you now.
).

Well you keep telling yourself that. I'm sure one day it might be true.
Just not today.

[The Stranger]

Well you keep telling yourself that. I'm sure one day it might be true.
Just not today.

Fuck me, what's the world coming to.

It took me at least 6 months of hard work to get a red out of Katman and you cave after only a couple of days.

They don't make em like they used to.

[Mad-V2]

It's a basic WOF requirement that your brakes can stop your bike within 7 metres from 30kph.

How many blind corners do you know of that only allow 7 metres visibility around them?

None thats why they are blind corners, you cant see around them
How many corners do you go around at 30kph on the open road?

[Mad-V2]

Fuck me, what's the world coming to.

It took me at least 6 months of hard work to get a red out of Katman and you cave after only a couple of days.

They don't make em like they used to.

It took me all of 24 hours to get a red from Katman, accompanied by a nice "Get fucked" to boot

[Katman]

None thats why they are blind corners, you cant see around them
How many corners do you go around at 30kph on the open road?

Imagine you're sitting on your bike. Now imagine a point 7 metres in front of you.

Are you telling me that you can't see that far ahead of your bike around any blind corner?

[Katman]

It took me all of 24 hours to get a red from Katman, accompanied by a nice "Get fucked" to boot

Don't go thinking you're anything special.

And besides, the rules are 'he who gives the first red loses' - so you lose.

[yachtie10]

Don't go thinking you're anything special.

ive had one from him and wasnt even in the same thread as him

Smallest book in the world

"Tact and how to win friends" by Katman

[Mad-V2]

Imagine you're sitting on your bike. Now imagine a point 7 metres in front of you.

Are you telling me that you can't see that far ahead of your bike around any blind corner?

Not at all but who is traveling at 30kph around every blind corner. I know some unsigned 100kph corners that are blind where you have roughly 20 - 30m of visibility. Try stopping in 20 - 30m going at even 80kph around one of those corners and staying in your lane.
Example - http://i912.photobucket.com/albums/ac325/Hrdmanongear/Untitled-6.jpg

[Katman]

Not at all but who is traveling at 30kph around every blind corner. I know some unsigned 100kph corners that are blind where you have roughly 20 - 30m of visibility. Try stopping in 20 - 30m going at even 80kph around one of those corners and staying in your lane.

Around every blind corner I am looking to the vanishing point and asking myself "Can I stop in that distance?"

If the answer is "No" then I adjust my speed so I can.

The mere fact that you're considering the possibility of stopping means your reaction time is instantaneous if you should need to. That's what defensive riding is about.

[Mad-V2]

I'm sure you do. Just like I wash my hands every time I use the toilet.

[MSTRS]

<img src=http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/hs172.ash2/41784_2217551829_1600_n.jpg>

[avgas]

I blame the nazi's

[Banditbandit]

<img src=http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/hs172.ash2/41784_2217551829_1600_n.jpg>

Was always goimg to happen - from Day one ...

[Katman]

Was always goimg to happen - from Day one ...

Meh, back in the good old days if this had been a thread I'd started it would have been in PD within the first half dozen pages and I'd have had so many infraction points I wouldn't even be able to get to it.

At least it's a sign we're progressing. :eek:

[BoristheBiter]

Fuck me, what's the world coming to.

It took me at least 6 months of hard work to get a red out of Katman and you cave after only a couple of days.

They don't make em like they used to.

Maybe i think you're a bigger dick then he does.

[The Stranger]

Maybe i think you're a bigger dick then he does.

Yeah, that's it when you've lost the argument, run out of talent and all else fails turn to personal insults.
You're a real winner.

[PrincessBandit]

<img src=http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/hs172.ash2/41784_2217551829_1600_n.jpg>


Was always goimg to happen - from Day one ...

So not a chocolate snow cone then...I wondered where the 'flake' and sprinkles were

[StephenG]

I blame the nazi's

Another prime example of Godwin's Law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law).

I agree with the OP and the Katman-esque view. Certainly my view of motorcyclists and motorcycle-related crashes has changed (more enlightened I feel) after lurking these forums for a while.

I haven't been riding for very long but I seem to have noticed a strange phenomena where the riders going the opposite direction to me seem to be doing a fine enough job, but the majority of the ones that I find going the same direction as me like to run red lights, overtake over double yellows, lanesplit at 40-50km/h faster than the surrounding traffic and generally try to ride their way to an early grave. Maybe I don't see the ones travelling the opposite direction for long enough...
Sure cars exhibit some of the same behaviours, but they don't have as much to lose. I wouldn't say I'm a perfect rider/driver but I try my best to ride defensively and I think it's saved my skin many times (just once makes it worthwhile). Everyone likes to think they're an above average driver/rider, but by definition half of us would have to be below average (maybe this should be a poll...). There's a lot of talk and camaraderie on this forum on riding defensively, yet I still see so many reckless riders. Where do they come from? Are all the KB'ers perfect and it's the non-KB'ers that are the problem? The poll about accidentsincidents in the other thread suggests KB'ers are far from perfect so I'd say there's no difference. There also seems to be some contradictory fellows who seem to think they ride 'well' and 'carefully' by only using the back-roads as an unofficial drag-strip in the early hours... but that's another kettle of fish.

I tend to agree more and more with Katman's views the longer I hang around here. Sure he can be a bit extreme at times, but sometimes that is what is needed to for people to start seeing where someone else is coming from and to shift their views, if only a little.

So from me, a huge +1 to Katman.

tl;dr I agree with Katman.

[miloking]

Don't go thinking you're anything special.

And besides, the rules are 'he who gives the first red loses' - so you lose.

Well then you lost like 5 times to me mate! All the reds you gave me over past year, so much hate...where is the love :D

[BoristheBiter]

Yeah, that's it when you've lost the argument, run out of talent and all else fails turn to personal insults.
You're a real winner.


Works for you.

[Katman]

Well then you lost like 5 times to me mate! All the reds you gave me over past year, so much hate...where is the love :D

Yeah, but you're special.

[avgas]

Another prime example of Godwin's Law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law).
Did you know the cake is a lie!

[Edbear]

Another prime example of Godwin's Law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law).

I agree with the OP and the Katman-esque view. Certainly my view of motorcyclists and motorcycle-related crashes has changed (more enlightened I feel) after lurking these forums for a while.

I haven't been riding for very long but I seem to have noticed a strange phenomena where the riders going the opposite direction to me seem to be doing a fine enough job, but the majority of the ones that I find going the same direction as me like to run red lights, overtake over double yellows, lanesplit at 40-50km/h faster than the surrounding traffic and generally try to ride their way to an early grave. Maybe I don't see the ones travelling the opposite direction for long enough...
Sure cars exhibit some of the same behaviours, but they don't have as much to lose. I wouldn't say I'm a perfect rider/driver but I try my best to ride defensively and I think it's saved my skin many times (just once makes it worthwhile). Everyone likes to think they're an above average driver/rider, but by definition half of us would have to be below average (maybe this should be a poll...). There's a lot of talk and camaraderie on this forum on riding defensively, yet I still see so many reckless riders. Where do they come from? Are all the KB'ers perfect and it's the non-KB'ers that are the problem? The poll about accidentsincidents in the other thread suggests KB'ers are far from perfect so I'd say there's no difference. There also seems to be some contradictory fellows who seem to think they ride 'well' and 'carefully' by only using the back-roads as an unofficial drag-strip in the early hours... but that's another kettle of fish.

I tend to agree more and more with Katman's views the longer I hang around here. Sure he can be a bit extreme at times, but sometimes that is what is needed to for people to start seeing where someone else is coming from and to shift their views, if only a little.

So from me, a huge +1 to Katman.

tl;dr I agree with Katman.

Not me, I'm perfect...! :sunny:

[R-Soul]

riding within the limitations of the anticipated worst case scenario.
That would make the speed limit unsafe.
There could be a car/cow/baby in the middle of the road around any blind corner, I should do 30kph everywhere I go just in case.

In NZ at least, the speed limit is the maximum speed, not the compulsory speed. You are supposed to approach each corner on its merits, and ride to the conditions.

[The Stranger]

Works for you.

Why thank you, I thought so too.
The difference you see is that my insults display wit, style and intellect.
It's just a shame you lack all 3.

[BoristheBiter]

Why thank you, I thought so too.
The difference you see is that my insults display wit, style and intellect.
It's just a shame you lack all 3.

Coming from you I will take that as a complement.

[MSTRS]

com·ple·ment/ˈkämpləmənt/
Noun: A thing that completes or brings to perfection.
Verb: Add to (something) in a way that enhances or improves it; make perfect.

[PrincessBandit]

Yeah, but you're special.
Holy shit, don't tell him that - he'll think that's "special" in a good way...


Not me, I'm perfect...! :sunny:
Aww, halo polishing time Mr Bear!


com·ple·ment/ˈkämpləmənt/
Noun: A thing that completes or brings to perfection.
Verb: Add to (something) in a way that enhances or improves it; make perfect.

hahaha, I before E ooops, I instead of E perhaps :msn-wink::msn-wink:

[Edbear]

Holy shit, don't tell him that - he'll think that's "special" in a good way...


Aww, halo polishing time Mr Bear!



hahaha, I before E ooops, I instead of E perhaps :msn-wink::msn-wink:

Well, doesn't the Halo just complement me so well...? :innocent: Thanks for the compliment...:msn-wink:

[MSTRS]

My work here is done...

[DEATH_INC.]

I tend to agree more and more with Katman's views the longer I hang around here.

In the perfect world of Katman his views may well be correct.
But as we are all different, we all ride for different reasons.
If I rode as per the Katman book I'd be bored shitless, and probably fall asleep and crash.
Others like this style of riding.
I know full well the risks of my riding ( I've seen the results of making mistakes) but I'm willing to take them.
It's the same part of us that makes us run when we could walk, or ride a horse when we could run, or take a car instead of a horse, or a plane instead of a car.
The same thing that makes us climb mountains, dive to the bottom of the ocean, jump out of planes and off cliffs, blah, blah ,blah.
I really think that if you wrap yourself in cotton wool your whole life, you may as well be dead.

Ok, back to the insults :)

[BoristheBiter]

In the perfect world of Katman his views may well be correct.
But as we are all different, we all ride for different reasons.
If I rode as per the Katman book I'd be bored shitless, and probably fall asleep and crash.
Others like this style of riding.
I know full well the risks of my riding ( I've seen the results of making mistakes) but I'm willing to take them.
It's the same part of us that makes us run when we could walk, or ride a horse when we could run, or take a car instead of a horse, or a plane instead of a car.
The same thing that makes us climb mountains, dive to the bottom of the ocean, jump out of planes and off cliffs, blah, blah ,blah.
I really think that if you wrap yourself in cotton wool your whole life, you may as well be dead.

Ok, back to the insults :)

Thats all correct but it is the ones on here, and others, that do this then have a nice cry when something doesn't go their way.

And this was what the thread was about in the first place, got a bit lost along the way.