Free the weed, dope, cannabis, hooch, Fri 4 Feb, outside Auckland District Courts [Archive] - Page 2

mashman

8th July 2011, 12:04

I am not in favour of legalizing the sale of cannabis ...

I am in favour of legalizing the growth and possession ... if people could grow a smal number of plants for their own use the illegal trade would dry up .. and the crims would lose a source of income ... and the petty crime associated with people trying to get money to purchase cannabis on the black market would also drop away ...

Legalize growth and possession but keep the sale of it illegal.

To be honest that was my first point of call too, just decriminalising it... However, on reflection I can't see that working as such. The crims would lose a source of income and that would need to be replaced in other ways... a definate downside, be it b+e, DPB, selling other stuff etc... I'd rather they earned an honest living supplying the govt, than earned a living in dishonest ways and claiming "poverty" assistance through the govt.

Police would still need to chase down unregistered/untaxed growers, otherwise what would stop people from doing that? More investigation would be needed in many cases as now it's easy to tell who's doing illegal shit, but if some is legal and some is not, it gets a bit more difficult.

Why would they need to chase down the unregistered growers? Why not just leave them to it... nothing wrong with healthy competition in a legal marketplace... best you could get them for is tax evasion? (will go read yer document :))

mashman

8th July 2011, 12:28

This article actually has some well thought out arguments. (http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-pro-marijuana-arguments-that-arent-helping/)

Typical denier :shifty:... he's not a KB member is he :rofl:. As I said earlier, there are no cold hard facts about what will happen in NZ if Cannabis were legalised. Shame that the will isn't there to try it IF there are potential economic and social advantages.

Let's face it. If it was our sanity "they" were trying to protect, Kronic et al would not be on the market... along with no alcohol or other chemicals (headache pills etc...) that haven't been studied for, and have results for 20+ years...

bogan

8th July 2011, 12:45

Why would they need to chase down the unregistered growers? Why not just leave them to it... nothing wrong with healthy competition in a legal marketplace... best you could get them for is tax evasion? (will go read yer document :))

I was assuming there would be some regulations etc that growers have to adhere too, on top of the tax evasion.

Typical denier :shifty:... he's not a KB member is he :rofl:. As I said earlier, there are no cold hard facts about what will happen in NZ if Cannabis were legalised. Shame that the will isn't there to try it IF there are potential economic and social advantages.

Let's face it. If it was our sanity "they" were trying to protect, Kronic et al would not be on the market... along with no alcohol or other chemicals (headache pills etc...) that haven't been studied for, and have results for 20+ years...

So if there are no cold hard facts, all you have for legalising it, is that you want to get high and not be worried about the cops?

Maybe other things should be banned, maybe not, either way they have very little bearing on the reasons for/against weed.

ducatilover

8th July 2011, 13:22

I am not in favour of legalizing the sale of cannabis ...

I am in favour of legalizing the growth and possession ... if people could grow a smal number of plants for their own use the illegal trade would dry up .. and the crims would lose a source of income ... and the petty crime associated with people trying to get money to purchase cannabis on the black market would also drop away ...

Legalize growth and possession but keep the sale of it illegal.
The problem with the crims losing money and customers could be quite large. Where will they go to make money?
The price of pot will rise because no-one wants to make less money, more people will grow their own, then the sellers are left in a "shit" position from an economic view and may turn to other things to make the money....
If anyone really gave a shit about getting proper information on this debate they'd go read this: http://www.amazon.com/Science-Marijuana-Leslie-Iversen/dp/0195131231

I am happy to listen to any argument and can understand the one where someone wants to get legally high...
That Kronic drug is not god at all, there (as far as I have read) are risks of neurotoxicity involved. :no:

At the end of the day it will come down to the Govt. deciding if legal cannabis is economically viable.

mashman

8th July 2011, 13:58

I was assuming there would be some regulations etc that growers have to adhere too, on top of the tax evasion.

Are there any in place at the moment? By all means put some form of regulatory committee in place, I care not. They've only just started to think about this in terms of the legal highs... perhaps they could tag on one more :).

So if there are no cold hard facts, all you have for legalising it, is that you want to get high and not be worried about the cops?

Maybe other things should be banned, maybe not, either way they have very little bearing on the reasons for/against weed.

Shouldn't that have been in quotes :shifty:. and Nope... that's what the legal highs are for :blink:.

If the only reason to keep weed illegal is because it causes mental problems, then you're right, you should ban just about everything that changes the chemical balance of the brain... including them Mad Cows and Jacob. In which case I'd say there are definately crossovers between cannabis and coffee etc...

Usarka

8th July 2011, 14:02

So why legalise some other potentially troublesome product too?

Good point. No new fast food outlets.

ducatilover

8th July 2011, 14:03

Good point. No new fast food outlets.

No sexy women either, they distract me when riding.

bogan

8th July 2011, 14:09

Shouldn't that have been in quotes :shifty:. and Nope... that's what the legal highs are for :blink:.

If the only reason to keep weed illegal is because it causes mental problems, then you're right, you should ban just about everything that changes the chemical balance of the brain... including them Mad Cows and Jacob. In which case I'd say there are definately crossovers between cannabis and coffee etc...

So what reason do you have for its legalisation then, if you can legally get high already?

Indeed, there are going to be pluses and minuses for many different aspects of the situation. Which is why the arguments for or against legalisation must stand on their own, not just say it's better than so and so (which is legal) for this single aspect.

When the advocates for its legalisation have difficulty putting together a solid argument, is does tend to suggest there might be a downside in cognitive ability from prolonged use :shifty:

Big Dave

8th July 2011, 14:13

<<
So why legalise some other potentially troublesome product too?
<<

Because the cost of criminalising it is worse than the damage it causes.

The whole issue of drug addiction needs to move to medical governance.

Usarka

8th July 2011, 14:17

+1

And because drug rules contradict our societal conditioning. Not well? Have some medication. Need a boost, have some caffeine, booze, sugar etc. Take this. Take that. Call me in the morning.

But don't you dare take that because it makes you feel good!

007XX

8th July 2011, 14:30

OMG, you guys are making sense...Please take something for that <_<

mashman

8th July 2011, 14:46

So what reason do you have for its legalisation then, if you can legally get high already?

Indeed, there are going to be pluses and minuses for many different aspects of the situation. Which is why the arguments for or against legalisation must stand on their own, not just say it's better than so and so (which is legal) for this single aspect.

When the advocates for its legalisation have difficulty putting together a solid argument, is does tend to suggest there might be a downside in cognitive ability from prolonged use

My reasons were outlined a few posts back. I see no other reason than alleviating some of the economic impact on the tax payer, as well as creating jobs... after all it's a safe drug in comparison to tobacco and alcohol, that can save lives and by default must be good for you :)

The arguments will never stand on their own, irrespective of which side of the fence people are sitting on. To you it's all about me getting stoned and destroying brain cells and being useless (i'd very much argue the opposite on all (bar the useless) of those :yes: :yes: and hell :yes: (getting stoned is just a pleasant side effect)). The argument that you have just used, the so and so is better than such and such is the exact same reason they use to surpress Cannabis... oh the irony... that's why the arguments will never be won. Tis ok for 1 side of the fence to use it, but when the stoners start playing the same game :rofl:... you just wanna get high :facepalm:

ha ha ha haaaaaaaaaa... and the lawmakers argument is much more solid and put together in such a way that legal highs can hit the market and by changing a single ingredient can keep hitting the market after having been banned bwaaaaaa ha ha ha haaaaaaaaa... You should never ride your motorcycle over the speed of 100 kmh.

bogan

8th July 2011, 15:36

My reasons were outlined a few posts back. I see no other reason than alleviating some of the economic impact on the tax payer, as well as creating jobs... after all it's a safe drug in comparison to tobacco and alcohol, that can save lives and by default must be good for you :)

The arguments will never stand on their own, irrespective of which side of the fence people are sitting on. To you it's all about me getting stoned and destroying brain cells and being useless (i'd very much argue the opposite on all (bar the useless) of those :yes: :yes: and hell :yes: (getting stoned is just a pleasant side effect)). The argument that you have just used, the so and so is better than such and such is the exact same reason they use to surpress Cannabis... oh the irony... that's why the arguments will never be won. Tis ok for 1 side of the fence to use it, but when the stoners start playing the same game :rofl:... you just wanna get high :facepalm:

ha ha ha haaaaaaaaaa... and the lawmakers argument is much more solid and put together in such a way that legal highs can hit the market and by changing a single ingredient can keep hitting the market after having been banned bwaaaaaa ha ha ha haaaaaaaaa... You should never ride your motorcycle over the speed of 100 kmh.

Taxing it is a fair enough reason, some figures for potential tax revenue might help you argument there though. Where are the studies showing is it safe in comparison to alcohol and tobacco? alcohol causes secondary damage from drunken bastards hurting themselves, while tobacco is harmful in itself, as I understand it.

And if you want to bring alcohol and tobacco into it, you need to evaluate the big picture for both, and not just compare a casual user with a heavy drinker. For example; do people do stupid shit/crash cars when high? and is stopping the later going to be police-able? I'm not sure what you mean with the irony bit?

Again, just because there might be unplugged loopholes in the system at the moment, doesn't mean weed should be legal!

To me, it seems the best argument, is that you want to (and believe you should be free to) get high, and the risks of developing a medical problem are ..... and risks of injury to self or other due to the altered state of mind are ......
Making a bunch of seemingly unfounded claims is not the way to go imo.

mashman

8th July 2011, 15:54

Taxing it is a fair enough reason, some figures for potential tax revenue might help you argument there though. Where are the studies showing is it safe in comparison to alcohol and tobacco? alcohol causes secondary damage from drunken bastards hurting themselves, while tobacco is harmful in itself, as I understand it.

And if you want to bring alcohol and tobacco into it, you need to evaluate the big picture for both, and not just compare a casual user with a heavy drinker. For example; do people do stupid shit/crash cars when high? and is stopping the later going to be police-able? I'm not sure what you mean with the irony bit?

Again, just because there might be unplugged loopholes in the system at the moment, doesn't mean weed should be legal!

To me, it seems the best argument, is that you want to (and believe you should be free to) get high, and the risks of developing a medical problem are ..... and risks of injury to self or other due to the altered state of mind are ......
Making a bunch of seemingly unfounded claims is not the way to go imo.

:rofl:... sarcasm really doesn't translate well over the net eh (just a wee parrot of that doc you linlked to earlier) :). At the end of the day, the debate has raged for decades, legal highs that produce the same effects of cannabis are available in your local dairy and a potentially safer drug is available. That should be enough imho.

The irony is that the same arguments, so and so is better than such and such, is used by both sides. 1 side to keep it illegal, the other used as a comparison in terms of danger... Yet only 1 side can use the argument that such and such is better than so and so... priceless.

fuck I larfed @ altered state of mind... and hard.

bogan

8th July 2011, 16:14

The irony is that the same arguments, so and so is better than such and such, is used by both sides. 1 side to keep it illegal, the other used as a comparison in terms of danger... Yet only 1 side can use the argument that such and such is better than so and so... priceless.

It's only ironic if the same people who say you can't use it, use it themselves. And if the same argument is used by both sides, it must be a pretty weak argument for them both as well :bleh:

scissorhands

8th July 2011, 16:29

Diary farmers are primary producers, actually make something people want, spend locally and are an important contributor to our economy. As such they pay little tax

Cannabis farmers are primary producers, actually make something people want, spend locally and are an important contributor to our economy. As such they pay no tax:msn-wink:

Diary farmers can and do damage waterways. Cannabis farmers can and do damage individuals.

The only real difference is cannabis is a lesser evil in terms of overall harm:bleh:

bogan

8th July 2011, 16:38

The only real difference is cannabis is a lesser evil in terms of overall harm:bleh:

We also need leather for motorcycle gear, and food <_<

Also, I have a feeling the level of contribution to the economy might be a little different too.

Usarka

8th July 2011, 16:44

If drugs are so bad, how come most cocaine users have large incomes?

Big Dave

8th July 2011, 17:14

'Cocaine is NOT addictive. I should know, I've been snorting every day for the last 20 years' - Rita Rudner.

mashman

8th July 2011, 21:18

It's only ironic if the same people who say you can't use it, use it themselves. And if the same argument is used by both sides, it must be a pretty weak argument for them both as well :bleh:

wouldn't that be hypocritic? I stand by what I said :bleh:. so yeah, the argument is weak on both sides and ironic that legal highs still exclude Cannabis (is the way I'm looking at it)

bogan

8th July 2011, 21:29

wouldn't that be hypocritic? I stand by what I said :bleh:. so yeah, the argument is weak on both sides and ironic that legal highs still exclude Cannabis (is the way I'm looking at it)

Good point, the correct use of irony is a difficult one to master.

Usarka

8th July 2011, 21:42

I'm glad mint dark chocolate TimTams are decriminalised.

mashman

8th January 2012, 20:01

'No surprise' NZers top cannabis users (http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/newshome/12527761/no-surprise-nzers-top-cannabis-users/)...

"In Asia, the region with the lowest cannabis usage, rates were between 1.2 and 2.5 per cent.
Drug Detection Agency CEO Kirk Hardy says New Zealanders' relaxed views towards cannabis are partly to blame for the high usage rates.

"That kind of attitude we've got to change, because cannabis is a gateway drug and it does lead onto the likes of methamphetamine or heroin or other types of drugs.""

Oooooh look mummy. A scaremongering fucktard.... if cannabis is the gateway to other drugs, then fucktardism is the gateway to ignorance. Well done Mr Hardy... where's the other half of the comic duo with the 20's sense of humour and general outlook on society?

Madness

8th January 2012, 20:03

:first: :doobey:

superman

8th January 2012, 20:19

'They say marijuana is a gateway drug...
To what?...
The fridge.'

Indiana_Jones

8th January 2012, 20:22

<img src="http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivational-poster/0807/mr-mackey-mr-mackey-south-park-demotivational-poster-1217430654.jpg">

-Indy

Berries

9th January 2012, 11:45

Scuba_Steve

9th January 2012, 11:52

I like the gateway comments, it is no different to milk being a gateway drink. Can guarantee that most drinkers of methylated spirits actually started off on milk, or even water. We should obviously ban those as well.

don't worry people got your back

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yi3erdgVVTw

The dangers, uses and potential threats posed by this chemical, Dihydrogen Monoxide, are widespread, and some feel, terrifying. Here is just a small taste of what Dihydrogen Monoxide (DHMO) is:
Some call Dihydrogen Monoxide the "Invisible Killer"
Others think dihydrogen monoxide should be Banned
Dihydrogen Monoxide is linked to gun violence
Dihydrogen monoxide was found at every recent school shooting
Athletes use DIHYDROGEN MONOXIDE, or DHMO, to enhance performance
Dihydrogen Monoxide has been found in our rivers, lakes, oceans and streams
Dihydrogen Monoxide is a major component of acid rain
Thousands die each year after inhaling dihydrogen monoxide
Dihydrogen Monoxide can be deadly
Click to find out the truth about Dihydrogen Monoxide (http://www.dhmo.org/facts.html)

HenryDorsetCase

9th January 2012, 12:14

mashman

9th January 2012, 12:17

The dangers, uses and potential threats posed by this chemical, Dihydrogen Monoxide, are widespread, and some feel, terrifying. Here is just a small taste of what Dihydrogen Monoxide (DHMO) is:
Some call Dihydrogen Monoxide the "Invisible Killer"
Others think dihydrogen monoxide should be Banned
Dihydrogen Monoxide is linked to gun violence
Dihydrogen monoxide was found at every recent school shooting
Athletes use DIHYDROGEN MONOXIDE, or DHMO, to enhance performance
Dihydrogen Monoxide has been found in our rivers, lakes, oceans and streams
Dihydrogen Monoxide is a major component of acid rain
Thousands die each year after inhaling dihydrogen monoxide
Dihydrogen Monoxide can be deadly
Click to find out the truth about Dihydrogen Monoxide (http://www.dhmo.org/facts.html)

OMG... hardly surprising given that it's mainly hydrogen.

mashman

9th January 2012, 12:23

Follow the money. He has a vested interest in prohibition.

Legalised or not his services would be of use... doesn't he realise that :blink: (stupid rhetorical question)

Scuba_Steve

9th January 2012, 12:42

We already have a user base I say just do da same we've done with fags, legalize it, restrict it to 18 & tax da shit outta it :yes:

mashman

9th January 2012, 12:47

We already have a user base I say just do da same we've done with fags, legalize it, restrict it to 18 & tax da shit outta it :yes:

There also distribution networks in place too... as ya say, the only thing missing is its "status". Be interesting to see how many "cafes" opened up in towns around NZ swelling the tourism $$$. Less of a gateway too where the seller will likely only have 1 thing to sell :innocent:

yod

9th January 2012, 13:03

SMOKEU

9th January 2012, 13:17

I bet that most pot smokers started off by drinking alcohol and smoking tobacco. Therefore alcohol and tobacco are gateway drugs.

ducatilover

9th January 2012, 13:31

Stirts

9th January 2012, 13:40

My inestimable logic clearly shows us the answer is to abolish boobies.

http://www.titantalk.com/forums/attachments/off-topic-discussion/65348d1221337121-boobies-perspective-tit-demotivational-poster.jpg

mashman

9th January 2012, 14:00

Breast milk is the gateway drug to water, which is the gateway drug to Raro, which is the gateway drug to Coca-Cola, which is the gateway drug to Coffee, which is the gateway drug to Alcohol, which is the gateway drug to Cannabis, which is the gateway drug to HELL!!! :devil2::devil2::devil2:

My inestimable logic clearly shows us the answer is to abolish boobies.

Not everyone is fed breast milk... so it could be those who aren't fed on breast milk smoke cannabis and you've just opened the gate for a world full of drug users.

So I can't agree with the abolishing boobies as an answer... in fact they should be embraced :innocent:

Scuba_Steve

9th January 2012, 14:06

My inestimable logic clearly shows us the answer is to abolish boobies.

I'll Kill you, I'll kill you dead!!! :2guns:

Stirts

9th January 2012, 14:15

... in fact they should be embraced :innocent:

Sometimes that's easier said than done

mashman

9th January 2012, 14:18

Sometimes that's easier said than done

I'm up for the challenge :sweatdrop

Stirts

9th January 2012, 15:04

I'm up for the challenge :sweatdrop

I would say most members would be up for it.

mashman

9th January 2012, 15:21

I would say most members would be up for it.

:woohoo: perhaps that pic you posted is the perfect test for driving stoners... Try to hold them still please sir.

Edbear

9th January 2012, 15:42

:woohoo: perhaps that pic you posted is the perfect test for driving stoners... Try to hold them still please sir.

Theirs or yours..?

mashman

9th January 2012, 15:48

Theirs or yours..?

:rofl:... theirs (as long as the lady in the pic is the "theirs")

scumdog

9th January 2012, 15:50

Breast milk is the gateway drug to water, which is the gateway drug to Raro, which is the gateway drug to Coca-Cola, which is the gateway drug to Coffee, which is the gateway drug to Alcohol, which is the gateway drug to Cannabis, which is the gateway drug to HELL!!! :devil2::devil2::devil2:

My inestimable logic clearly shows us the answer is to abolish boobies.

Fuck-off ya drug crazed hippy...

(Probably still trying sucking on breasts 'trying to get breast milk'...:whistle:)

Indiana_Jones

9th January 2012, 16:38

Did someone say boobies?

-Indy

Stirts

9th January 2012, 18:54

Last edited by onearmedbandit; Today at 18:34. Reason: Removed r-rated image.

I put the r-rated back :D

http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lmqqg0HdPe1qefm89o1_500.gif

And another
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-fPhK7CKvOVs/Tknu9GnVgJI/AAAAAAAABOA/ZRUuVZh84rQ/w600/crawgirl.com-boobs-jiggle-37.gif

And morer
http://pimpandhost.com/media/simple/18174/43bf7c1e943b.gif

The r-rated tag farks with the links so it seems!! :angry:

ducatilover

9th January 2012, 18:57

The link's dead, show me them titties Stirts.

nosebleed

9th January 2012, 19:05

Last edited by onearmedbandit; Today at 18:34. Reason: Removed r-rated image.

I put the r-rated back :D

[r rated]http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lmqqg0HdPe1qefm89o1_500.gif[/r rated]

I was so impressed by your demotivational image that I scrolled further.
Would you and OAB like to set some time aside and have a chat about making this work?

Stirts

9th January 2012, 19:13

I was so impressed by your demotivational image that I scrolled further.
Would you and OAB like to set some time aside and have a chat about making this work?

See the edited post above....I got it to work, kinda, sorte but I don't know how long before they get taken :eek5:

Usarka

9th January 2012, 19:14

A stoner thread without boobs is like a ummmm......

DMNTD

9th January 2012, 19:22

http://www.chronicclub.com/file/pic/photo/2011/03/fozz-marijuana-boobs-tattoos_500.jpg

ducatilover

9th January 2012, 19:26

Much better! :yes:

Stirts

9th January 2012, 19:27

marijuana-motorboat

( . ):doobey:( . )

DMNTD

9th January 2012, 19:28

It's a new strain I've come up with that actually makes you drool instead of getting the drys :doobey:

Madness

9th January 2012, 19:33

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Stirts again

Faark, that 2nd one is mezmorizing! :doobey:

scissorhands

9th January 2012, 20:59

NZ aint top, Canada pips us and PNG and Namibia are over double our rates @30-35% http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabis_in_New_Zealand

A new right is emerging in NZ around cannabis.... 3 separate and/or combined anti-cannabis efforts are afoot in the new year, noone by the NZ Police

1 http://www.drugfreeworld.org/ Scientology wants some new converts, no mention of harm from ciggys, booze, junk food, or meds, full of propaganda, good for a laugh

2 http://www.drivinghigh.org.nz/ Would you like facts with that? meh

3 http://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/192052/cannabis-requests-illegal NZ Doctors are being asked (by the nz medical council)not to sign medical certificates supporting the use of marijuana to relieve chronic pain

a backtrack as last year they came out in favour

New Zealand medical association backs medical use of cannabis

CannabisThe country's largest medical organisation is backing a Law Commission proposal that would allow for the medicinal use of cannabis.

The New Zealand Medical Association (NZMA), which has 4500 members, says it supports a Law Commission proposal to allow people suffering from chronic or debilitating illnesses to use cannabis under medical supervision.

The proposal, outlined in the commission's "Issues Paper on Controlling and Regulating drugs", has not found favour with Justice Minister Simon Power, but NZMA Director Peter Foley believes the use of cannabis for medicinal purposes IS acceptable, provided it is subject to the same evidence-based testing as any other drug used for the same reason.

In a submission to the Law Commission, Foley said the Association (NZMA) supported cannabis being prescribed by registered medical practitioners for specified conditions where other available treatments or drug therapies have not been effective or have produced unmanageable side-effects. Medicinal use of cannabis is currently legal in 13 states in the US, Canada, Spain, Germany and the Netherlands.

The Green Party tried last year to get the Misuse of Drugs Act amended to allow cannabis to be used for medicinal purposes, but their bill failed on its first reading after it was voted down 86-34 on a conscience vote by MPs.

Source: Voxy.co.nz Copyright 2010 Digital Advance Limited (15/06/10)

oh yeah the nats voted 100% against..... even though 75% of NZers want cannabis decriminalised!!!!!!!

More money being spent on medieval drug policy that harms NZers as a whole.

No balanced truthful education once again.....

mashman

9th January 2012, 21:04

Would you and OAB like to set some time aside and have a chat about making this work?

I thought that was image 3

SMOKEU

9th January 2012, 22:26

oh yeah the nats voted 100% against..... even though 75% of NZers want cannabis decriminalised!!!!!!!

More money being spent on medieval drug policy that harms NZers as a whole.

Proof right there that John Key is an incompetent fool. He refuses to even listen to scientific reasoning.

scissorhands

10th January 2012, 08:28

Proof right there that John Key is an incompetent fool. He refuses to even listen to scientific reasoning.

They just got medical science back in their prohibition corner, and along with the motley crew that makes $$$$ from prohibition, the stoners and the 75% of kiwis dont have a chance unless they start making some noise

Yet to see lately, the well is looking poisoned from within....

What a backward, medieval bunch we have eh? Especially considering the progressive decriminalised direction of cannabis law throughout the first world

NZ is the only one going backwards!

Says a lot about us as a nation right now.....

SMOKEU

10th January 2012, 10:19

They just got medical science back in their prohibition corner, and along with the motley crew that makes $$$$ from prohibition, the stoners and the 75% of kiwis dont have a chance unless they start making some noise

Yet to see lately, the well is looking poisoned from within....

What a backward, medieval bunch we have eh? Especially considering the progressive decriminalised direction of cannabis law throughout the first world

NZ is the only one going backwards!

Says a lot about us as a nation right now.....

In the Netherlands pot is decriminalised, and their cannabis consumption rates are lower per capita than NZ. Why? Because the residents there are so used to it being legal, it takes some of the fun out of smoking it. Teenagers can't smoke it to be rebellious, and not every pot smoker is a psychopathic murderer like the NZ government would like us all to believe who is one joint away from picking up a machete and going on a rampage.

scumdog

10th January 2012, 12:11

The stuff should be legalised - that way I'd have more time to write out tickets!:2thumbsup

bogan

10th January 2012, 12:12

The stuff should be legalised - that way I'd have more time to eat donuts!:2thumbsup

fixed it for ya :bleh:

scumdog

10th January 2012, 12:15

fixed it for ya :bleh:

Oh, I've ALWAYS got time for THEM!;)

ducatilover

10th January 2012, 12:18

In the Netherlands pot is decriminalised, and their cannabis consumption rates are lower per capita than NZ. Why?

Or they just have better things to do than smoke pot and blob? :yes:

puddytat

10th January 2012, 12:19

Funny thing is Id've thought the Govt would be keen to atleast decrim it.....take my own case for example.Seeing as its that time of the year & things are a way off from picking, lately I've been having to go without. So consequently although Im still having the thoughts on topics like I usually do, I can now be fucked to actually sit down & espouse them here on KB, instead of wandering round the garden going "Wow Man"....:yes:
Life would be a lot easier for the govt. if everyone was stoned.

DMNTD

10th January 2012, 12:24

The stuff should be legalised - that way I'd have more time to write out tickets!:2thumbsup

Well I guess at least you'd be collecting taxes instead of spending them :sweatdrop

SMOKEU

10th January 2012, 12:27

Weed does cause a lot of problems in NZ - but that's only because it's illegal. If it wasn't illegal, then gang tinnie houses wouldn't be popping up in impoverished areas, and there would be no street level weed dealers.

Exactly the same problems happened in the USA during the alcohol prohibition era - illegal distilleries started spreading like wild fire, and of course gangs got involved, and many people got killed as a consequence. At least the Americans saw "the light", they legalised alcohol, and instantly those illegal distilleries and illegal pubs started to disappear.

It's common sense. Make something illegal, and if enough people want it, then it's going to become widely available regardless of what government propaganda the National party spew out to the NZ public.

ducatilover

10th January 2012, 12:35

Weed does cause a lot of problems in NZ - but that's only because it's illegal. If it wasn't illegal, then gang tinnie houses wouldn't be popping up in impoverished areas, and there would be no street level weed dealers.

Then what would the gangs start manufacturing as they don't want their profit margins cut?
They're not in it to make it legal, illegal trade pays very well if done "right" and if weed was legal, their profits would be slashed hugely unless you start paying 40-50 for a spot...

scissorhands

10th January 2012, 12:52

Then what would the gangs start manufacturing as they don't want their profit margins cut?
They're not in it to make it legal, illegal trade pays very well if done "right" and if weed was legal, their profits would be slashed hugely unless you start paying 40-50 for a spot...

Not at all, new Harley Davidsons will be forever

CALIFORNIA: Dispensary prices have remained the same as before decriminalisation. Dispensary farms are run just like now in NZ but very professionally, profit on yield is the same. Tax is paid, new Harleys can be claimed back as expenses, as well as 'field research' to foreign lands. A mate makes surfboards, so can go to Bali every year for product research.... he only makes a few boards....

No one grows their own when you can get your quack to write you a prescription, oh yeah the medical establishment gets $100 for the medical certificate so that carrot has worked

Going legit has its perks I believe....

Win Win.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRm1yqSmsGY

ducatilover

10th January 2012, 12:54

Interesting insight. I'll start growing if it becomes legal :yes: Might not buy a Hardley though

scissorhands

10th January 2012, 13:07

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRZSWSe7oU4

SMOKEU

10th January 2012, 17:00

scumdog

10th January 2012, 17:04

Exactly the same problems happened in the USA during the alcohol prohibition era - illegal distilleries started spreading like wild fire, and of course gangs got involved, and many people got killed as a consequence. At least the Americans saw "the light", they legalised alcohol, and instantly those illegal distilleries and illegal pubs started to disappear.

.

A shame they hadn't made the problems caused by alcohol disappear too...

ducatilover

10th January 2012, 17:09

The gang members that want to deal with methamphetamine and other hard drugs already do so. The profits from class A drugs are significantly higher than than for weed.
Yes, but, I was questioning if the return from weed becomes lower, why bother to be in the business? Most pot sellers are there for the money are they not? And I cannot imagine them bending over and taking the proverbial government rod up the jacksie.

Just a thought.

scissorhands

10th January 2012, 17:46

The way I see it, prices wont go down, as they are the same in countries that have decriminalised

Costs will go down, as well as stress to those in the business

Volume will stay the same, and should reduce in time depending on TV ads/education to reduce consumption

Tax is now paid to government.

Government saves money from arresting, processing, sentencing and locking up peps with cannabis charges

Gang profits from cannabis may increase if they secure a supply contract to a dispensary......

Or social club........there are a few more Daktory style clubs near me now!! Supplied by?? Po Po lets slide??

They may become the norm in NZ, instead of US dispensaries or Dutch cafes. At this stage they are a social experiment.... I hope they are kind in their reports, I am technically retarded:whistle:

bogan

10th January 2012, 17:49

So is it free yet? Cos that'd be a good way to undercut the competition too, them buggers get heaps for not much grass (that is the extent of my weed pricing knowledge btw).

bogan

10th January 2012, 17:53

Volume will stay the same, and should reduce in time depending on TV ads/education to reduce consumption

Volume will stay the same? Yeh right, what you smoking man! oh yeh, weed, as you were.

scissorhands

10th January 2012, 18:00

Its true, use spikes briefly while grannies and soccer mums try it for sleep anxiety etc

But in all countries it seems that new stoners hardly appear, and use actually goes down...

Almost an unofficial decriminalised situation in NZ now anyways, tons of peps get a warning

bogan

10th January 2012, 18:01

Scuba_Steve

10th January 2012, 18:03

scissorhands

10th January 2012, 18:07

Got any stats for that?

naaa i cant be fucked looking, I'm on weed remember? You do it

SMOKEU

10th January 2012, 18:09

Yes, but, I was questioning if the return from weed becomes lower, why bother to be in the business? Most pot sellers are there for the money are they not? And I cannot imagine them bending over and taking the proverbial government rod up the jacksie.

Just a thought.

If pot was legally sold at a reasonable price, then the incentive for people to grow and illegally sell it will disappear. It's only expensive because it's illegal, so if the return decreases significantly, then people will no longer bother selling it illegally.

I distill my own spirit, but it's not worth selling it because the risk of getting caught outweighs the potential profit I may gain, and because alcohol is cheap enough to purchase from shops, there is little demand for homebrew. If the prices of alcohol were to double overnight, then sure, I would have people queuing up to buy cheap piss. Since I make alcohol on a small scale, I can't afford to sell it cheap enough in order to increase the demand, because then I will be making too little profit from it.

Weed dealers will then move onto methamphetamine, but since the demand for meth is much lower than the demand for weeds, many drug dealers will go out of business.

scissorhands

10th January 2012, 18:32

price will not go down, no way

$20 for 1 gram will not change in NZ

bogan

10th January 2012, 18:40

naaa i cant be fucked looking, I'm on weed remember? You do it

I'm quite happy with the current legal status of weed, if you want support to change that, maybe providing some facts is a good place to start?

mashman

10th January 2012, 18:42

returns on weed are relatively low & gangs have small interest in it

Oh I dunno about that. Maybe in comparison to expensive pills (I can't believe how expensive your pills are here), but their ingredients cost every time. Once you've got your cannabis setup it's just a case of planting the seeds or taking cutoffs from guaranteed female plants. There must be a couple of grand if not more return from a mediocre plant? and they're likely grown outdoors with next to no upkeep, just pluck dry and sell. If you can sell a couple of grand a day, more than possible, that's a decent living. I woulda thought it was the bread and butter for gangs over pills. Could be wrong, but those I've known that have grown can happily make a nice living off weed alone.

Usarka

10th January 2012, 18:48

the irony of it all
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/pUqX07JX_3c" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Scuba_Steve

10th January 2012, 18:56

Oh I dunno about that. Maybe in comparison to expensive pills (I can't believe how expensive your pills are here), but their ingredients cost every time. Once you've got your cannabis setup it's just a case of planting the seeds or taking cutoffs from guaranteed female plants. There must be a couple of grand if not more return from a mediocre plant? and they're likely grown outdoors with next to no upkeep, just pluck dry and sell. If you can sell a couple of grand a day, more than possible, that's a decent living. I woulda thought it was the bread and butter for gangs over pills. Could be wrong, but those I've known that have grown can happily make a nice living off weed alone.

I'm just going on what I've been told by gangs (won't go into names etc). Used to hang out with a few members (they love bikes too :D). But weed is left to the lowest ranks & it is not their "money maker" it is their "welcome, come on in" drug, this doesn't mean it doesn't make a pretty penny just it pales in comparison to their other "offerings"

scissorhands

10th January 2012, 19:21

Its actually kinda weird where weed has gone..... since it was the number #1 (thats most widely used medicine) around 100 years ago

Nowadays peps bong it on sofas, in clubs

scissorhands

10th January 2012, 19:26

I'm just going on what I've been told by gangs (won't go into names etc). Used to hang out with a few members (they love bikes too :D). But weed is left to the lowest ranks & it is not their "money maker" it is their "welcome, come on in" drug, this doesn't mean it doesn't make a pretty penny just it pales in comparison to their other "offerings"

I'm not up on figures cause I am no way involved with drug business, but farms supplying dispensaries in Cali get the same per kg as before. That shit was laid down in the beginning when everyone got together.

meth wont go away, weed wont get cheaper, so they can sleep easy I'd say

mashman

10th January 2012, 19:28

I'm just going on what I've been told by gangs (won't go into names etc). Used to hang out with a few members (they love bikes too :D). But weed is left to the lowest ranks & it is not their "money maker" it is their "welcome, come on in" drug, this doesn't mean it doesn't make a pretty penny just it pales in comparison to their other "offerings"

Fair enough... I was going on the UK "system", although I'd never heard or seen a tinny til I came here, we always bought 1/8th or 1/4 ounces.

Madness

10th January 2012, 19:32

I'd never heard or seen a tinny til I came here

A.K.A "bullets" or at least they were when I was at school :innocent:

blue rider

10th January 2012, 19:34

tolerate the shit like they do in the e in the Netherlands. No sales to anyone under 18 (this btw. is rigorously enforced, a coffee shop will loose a license if caught doing silly things), quality controlled weed n hash, prices standardized, osh rules and regulations, and most importantly and hilarious - menu cards. And the government laughs all the way to the bank.

we could of course go the US American "War on Drug" way, lock everyone up for years on end because they were caught with a Jointje and open prisons for profit....whats not to like?

ducatilover

16th January 2012, 14:34

returns on weed are relatively low & gangs have small interest in it, they use it as (sorry for the wording) a gateway drug (not in the same sense as propaganda has you believe). Their use of the gateway drug is getting you to their setup where they hope to eventually "up sell" you to the more profitable "P", "E" etc

I could see gangs using the weed sale as a legit front for their "other operations" if brought under the Govt stick as you say
I have heard of some gang grown pot being laced, the ultimate in gateway drug really.

If pot was legally sold at a reasonable price, then the incentive for people to grow and illegally sell it will disappear. It's only expensive because it's illegal, so if the return decreases significantly, then people will no longer bother selling it illegally.

I distill my own spirit, but it's not worth selling it because the risk of getting caught outweighs the potential profit I may gain, and because alcohol is cheap enough to purchase from shops, there is little demand for homebrew. If the prices of alcohol were to double overnight, then sure, I would have people queuing up to buy cheap piss. Since I make alcohol on a small scale, I can't afford to sell it cheap enough in order to increase the demand, because then I will be making too little profit from it.

Weed dealers will then move onto methamphetamine, but since the demand for meth is much lower than the demand for weeds, many drug dealers will go out of business.
Interesting stuff.
I'll start growing tobacco, I enjoy it and it's too expensive. I'm assuming a few out there think the same with weed?
I'm keen to buy or brew alcohol too (except I'd get fat as fuck)

SMOKEU

16th January 2012, 15:28

Interesting stuff.
I'll start growing tobacco, I enjoy it and it's too expensive. I'm assuming a few out there think the same with weed?
I'm keen to buy or brew alcohol too (except I'd get fat as fuck)

This coming August, buy some tobacco seeds off Trademe and start growing them in pots. Come spring, and the end of the frosts, they should be big enough to plant outdoors. You'll have a good crop by the end of March next year.

Buy yourself a still and start making alcohol. It won't make you fat. I've been getting drunk of homebrew for a few years and I'm still skinny as fuck.

ducatilover

16th January 2012, 15:33

This coming August, buy some tobacco seeds off Trademe and start growing them in pots. Come spring, and the end of the frosts, they should be big enough to plant outdoors. You'll have a good crop by the end of March next year.

Buy yourself a still and start making alcohol. It won't make you fat. I've been getting drunk of homebrew for a few years and I'm still skinny as fuck.

I can get baccy seeds for free :niceone:
Hmmmm might have to make me a brew

DMNTD

16th January 2012, 18:25

.
I'll start growing tobacco, I enjoy it and it's too expensive.

Intrigued to know exactly what you enjoy about it...
It stinks, you get no 'hit' from it....where is the pleasure from smoking ciggies apart from stopping its "side effects"?

ducatilover

16th January 2012, 18:32

DMNTD

16th January 2012, 18:35

Feels fucking brilliant in the morning and after a meal, even better after or during a root.
It's my problem if I enjoy it (I start and stop often) living without it isn't a huge issue for me (currently three days without because I can't be fucked buying any)

Strokes for folks :msn-wink:

Sweet as, was just interested. I've been smoking ciggies for 23?? years and have yet to actually genuinely enjoy one.
Dumb fuck huh! :weird:

mashman

16th January 2012, 18:46

Sweet as, was just interested. I've been smoking ciggies for 23?? years and have yet to actually genuinely enjoy one.
Dumb fuck huh! :weird:

heh, know wotcha mean. Don't have one til midday. Tis fleeting, but there is a buzz...

DMNTD

16th January 2012, 18:48

heh, know wotcha mean. Don't have one til midday. Tis fleeting, but there is a buzz...

How many skins?

onearmedbandit

16th January 2012, 18:49

Sweet as, was just interested. I've been smoking ciggies for 23?? years and have yet to actually genuinely enjoy one.
Dumb fuck huh! :weird:

Really? For me I enjoy a cigarette for some quiet contemplation, 5 minutes to myself to sit, smoke and mull. Or after a sesh, or with a drink, after a meal, or reading a book or after a root.

mashman

16th January 2012, 18:51

How many skins?

just a normal single, no extras, and all of 2 or 3 mins of "joy", but not to be repeated unless you don't have another until about 5pm :rofl:... doesn't really help when yer trying to give up by cutting down.

DMNTD

16th January 2012, 18:53

Really? For me I enjoy a cigarette for some quiet contemplation, 5 minutes to myself to sit, smoke and mull. Or after a sesh, or with a drink, after a meal, or reading a book or after a root.

Yep, really...in real life even!
I do know what you're getting at however I still don't genuinely enjoy it, it just satisfies my craving

haydes55

17th January 2012, 16:12

Feels fucking brilliant in the morning and after a meal, even better after or during a root.
It's my problem if I enjoy it (I start and stop often) living without it isn't a huge issue for me (currently three days without because I can't be fucked buying any)

Strokes for folks :msn-wink:

During a root.... :blink: She likes a bit of hot ash in the face? Or doggy with an ash tray and a newspaper for reading on her back?
:lol:

Edbear

17th January 2012, 16:47

Intrigued to know exactly what you enjoy about it...
It stinks, you get no 'hit' from it....where is the pleasure from smoking ciggies apart from stopping its "side effects"?

Feels fucking brilliant in the morning and after a meal, even better after or during a root.
It's my problem if I enjoy it (I start and stop often) living without it isn't a huge issue for me (currently three days without because I can't be fucked buying any)

Strokes for folks :msn-wink:

What saddens me is that I have lost friends and family to cancer and heart/lung disease as a direct consequence of cigarette smoking. It is truly a horrible way to suffer and die. One got mouth/throat cancer, another the worst type of Emphisema and heart failure. It is not quick, it is horribly disfiguring and you suffer greatly until you just want to die and get it over with.

I know you have all your arguments and excuses but I also saw the the anguish and grief of the loved ones who had to watch them and care for them while they suffered and were left bereft. On top of that was the self-recriminations and regrets that they didn't listen and quit.

Sure you can point to old smokers, but even if you don't get one or more types of cancer now or soon, you can guarantee that when you do you won't be feeling too good and there is no reset button.

Really? For me I enjoy a cigarette for some quiet contemplation, 5 minutes to myself to sit, smoke and mull. Or after a sesh, or with a drink, after a meal, or reading a book or after a root.

scissorhands

17th January 2012, 20:16

oldest stoners in America

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7yGaLuW6aY

ducatilover

17th January 2012, 23:48

Sweet as, was just interested. I've been smoking ciggies for 23?? years and have yet to actually genuinely enjoy one.
Dumb fuck huh! :weird:
In the wise words of myself earlier today, "it's not my problem" :bleh: I enjoy them, if it tastes poo, I put it out.

Really? For me I enjoy a cigarette for some quiet contemplation, 5 minutes to myself to sit, smoke and mull. Or after a sesh, or with a drink, after a meal, or reading a book or after a root.
+1

During a root.... :blink: She likes a bit of hot ash in the face? Or doggy with an ash tray and a newspaper for reading on her back?
:lol: :yes: The latter. The former is for birthdays only.

What saddens me is that I have lost friends and family to cancer and heart/lung disease as a direct consequence of cigarette smoking. It is truly a horrible way to suffer and die. One got mouth/throat cancer, another the worst type of Emphisema and heart failure. It is not quick, it is horribly disfiguring and you suffer greatly until you just want to die and get it over with.

I know you have all your arguments and excuses but I also saw the the anguish and grief of the loved ones who had to watch them and care for them while they suffered and were left bereft. On top of that was the self-recriminations and regrets that they didn't listen and quit.

Sure you can point to old smokers, but even if you don't get one or more types of cancer now or soon, you can guarantee that when you do you won't be feeling too good and there is no reset button. I know where you're coming from Ed, my mother has emphysema, which is pushing me towards stopping altogether.
I smoke when I want, sometimes I am a full time smoker, sometimes not. Currently I have had one fag in the last five days without a single problem or craving, I am a lucky one I suppose.
I just find it nice to sit down and have a fag at the bottom (of the stairs) when I want, not when the cravings say so.
The first time I stopped, when I was 14, I had cravings and was a grumpy cock. Since then I can stop/start whenever suits me. I've had gaps of 8 months between smokes and have smoked as much as 80 grams a week.
Unless you've been in my shoes, one cannot pass judgement.

Plus, people dwell on mortal sentimentality far too bloody much.

Edbear

18th January 2012, 07:20

In the wise words of myself earlier today, "it's not my problem" :bleh: I enjoy them, if it tastes poo, I put it out.

+1
:yes: The latter. The former is for birthdays only.

I know where you're coming from Ed, my mother has emphysema, which is pushing me towards stopping altogether.
I smoke when I want, sometimes I am a full time smoker, sometimes not. Currently I have had one fag in the last five days without a single problem or craving, I am a lucky one I suppose.
I just find it nice to sit down and have a fag at the bottom (of the stairs) when I want, not when the cravings say so.
The first time I stopped, when I was 14, I had cravings and was a grumpy cock. Since then I can stop/start whenever suits me. I've had gaps of 8 months between smokes and have smoked as much as 80 grams a week.
Unless you've been in my shoes, one cannot pass judgement.

Plus, people dwell on mortal sentimentality far too bloody much.

I'm not passing judgement here, on the contrary I am grateful that I never started smoking as I do know how hard it can be to quit having also seen family and friends quit. My post is to highlight the consequences and to ask, (plead?), with those who smoke to weigh up carefully and seriously the ramifications.

You don't just die. Few care about that enough to stop doing anything until they are actually facing death, rather you suffer for a long time and have to see your loved ones suffer as they care for you.

Please just take a moment to look at those dying of cancer, look at the effects on them and their families and know that it could be you next.

I have heard all the arguments by smokers, so before anyone does argue or excuse, please consider seriously that along with some other pursuits, smoking is. Russian Roulette with your health and life and includes the lives of those you love and who love you. It is your choice to smoke of course.

One other thing I do pass judgement on is the manufacturers who come under the definition of murderers selling a product they know will kill at least half of their customers and cause suffering to all in one way or another yet they couldn't care less about you as long ad they make money.

scumdog

18th January 2012, 10:40

Yet to meet a ciggy smoker that is pissed off that they didn't start smoking earlier in life...;)

scissorhands

18th January 2012, 12:47

Its all self medicating

90% of the 'tards at 'occupy', 90% of the daktavists, all smoke ciggys

It pushes resentments and anger back down to the solar plexis, the gut

Plus you die young so the gubbermint doesnt have to pay your super or pension for very long:shit:

ducatilover

18th January 2012, 16:55

My post is to highlight the consequences and to ask, (plead?), with those who smoke to weigh up carefully and seriously the ramifications.

Ed mate, I like fast bikes. Chances are they'll get me first.
I know what you're saying, but I will continue to do as I please :bleh: if I was worried about the possibility of dying I'd live in a box.

Madness

18th January 2012, 17:12

One other thing I do pass judgement on is the manufacturers who come under the definition of murderers selling a product they know will kill at least half of their customers and cause suffering to all in one way or another yet they couldn't care less about you as long ad they make money.

It's worse than that. It's no longer about money, it's all about market share. DAMHIK.

Edbear

18th January 2012, 18:30

Ed mate, I like fast bikes. Chances are they'll get me first.
I know what you're saying, but I will continue to do as I please :bleh: if I was worried about the possibility of dying I'd live in a box.

We all have different perspectives of the amount of risk we are willing to take for our enjoyment. I know that falling off a bike is going to hurt, yet I love bikes and riding them. I won't do skydiving or bungy jumping though, and the reason I never made it as a winner in most sports was that while I ejoyed them, especially tennis and badminton, I don't have the killer instinct, that final ounce of whatever it took to win every time. I enjoyed being good at what I did and in knowing I could win, but I preferred to play the game for the enjoyment of it and was just as pleased, if not more so, when my opponent had a good game and won.

That's also why I would never have made a great motorcycle racer, I always pulled back at the edge and didn't push the limits, so I would have always been an also-ran.

Smoking, though, I put into a different category altogether as is it literally Russian Roulette with your life and health. The cigarettes are addictive for the reason that the manufacturers deliberately make it addictive in order to keep you in their pockets regardless of any consequences to your health and life. It is my anger at them that makes me doggedly opposed to smoking, (along with the health effects), as I would never see any company profit from a product that they know full well leads to the suffering and death of their customers nor support them in any way that condones their murderous intent.

Of course it is your choice and it is not my place to tell you not to do anything, and all will do what they wish, it is everyone's innate right.

Knowing what smoking cigarettes does, including causing the very nervous conditions people claim they help calm down, (with prescription pain-killer addiction, it is called "rebound" when the pain-killers cause the very pain you are taking them for), I just feel sad.

I do know first-hand what drug addiction is and I went through a living hell to get off them a few years ago. I was addicted to DHC and it nearly killed me. It had an iron grip on my body and mind and I never want to experience that ever again!

It's worse than that. It's no longer about money, it's all about market share. DAMHIK.

Yup, but as the market shrinks, they look for new suckers to hook, witness the very high levels of nicotine they use in countries without the strict controls even NZ has. If we didn't have such controls they would use whatever level they felt was required to ensure their customers remained addicted, and even increase their addiction to the point where it would be almost impossible to quit.

With respect to those who smoke, it is too true, the saying that, "You don't smoke, the cigarette smokes, you are merely the sucker on the end of it."

SMOKEU

18th January 2012, 18:34

The cigarettes are addictive for the reason that the manufacturers deliberately make it addictive in order to keep you in their pockets regardless of any consequences to your health and life.

Addiction is just an excuse to keep smoking. I have found that tobacco isn't anywhere near as addictive as many people say it is. I have smoked on and off for 6 years and I can stop and start whenever I want. I haven't been smoking for about 3 months now and I haven't had a hard time stopping. I have a few mates in the same position as me. If people want to quit then they will.

Edbear

18th January 2012, 18:42

Addiction is just an excuse to keep smoking. I have found that tobacco isn't anywhere near as addictive as many people say it is. I have smoked on and off for 6 years and I can stop and start whenever I want. I haven't been smoking for about 3 months now and I haven't had a hard time stopping. I have a few mates in the same position as me. If people want to quit then they will.

It is different for different people. Some have a hard time of it, some can quit cold-turkey with little bother. The regulations we have in NZ have limited the amount of nicotine they can use which does help.

jrandom

18th January 2012, 18:48

Addiction is just an excuse to keep smoking. I have found that tobacco isn't anywhere near as addictive as many people say it is. I have smoked on and off for 6 years and I can stop and start whenever I want.

Same here. I like tobacco. Happily go months without touching it though. There's no real pull toward it. If I feel like it I'll have a durry or load up my briar pipe. A nicotine buzz is choice, and it's much nicer when you're not desensitised to it by constant use. It's like caffeine, alcohol or THC - just another natural psychoactive substance that's been used by humans for thousands of years and that will kill you if you take too much of it. [Edit: Of course, I'm not sure that you could kill yourself with THC, given that it's not toxic. But smoking's definitely bad for you in the long run if that's how you're taking it.]

Anyway. Tobacco smokers who need it to get through each day are pathetic, IMHO.

It's all in the mind.

DMNTD

18th January 2012, 18:50

Addiction is just an excuse to keep smoking. I have found that tobacco isn't anywhere near as addictive as many people say it is. I have smoked on and off for 6 years and I can stop and start whenever I want. I haven't been smoking for about 3 months now and I haven't had a hard time stopping. I have a few mates in the same position as me. If people want to quit then they will.

As Ed has mentioned, we're all different.
I gave up something that most cannot...something that makes ciggies seem like child's play.
It is allegedly the most addictive "recreational" drug around yet I simply just stopped on the spot despite having a genuinely HEAVY intake.

We're all different

jrandom

18th January 2012, 18:57

We're all different

u r

DMNTD

18th January 2012, 18:58

u r

Thankfully...

mashman

18th January 2012, 19:03

I've got no real excuses anymore... especially not with the kids brow beating me about it every day or so... but I ain't ready to give it up yet.

Madness

18th January 2012, 19:09

The cigarettes are addictive for the reason that the manufacturers deliberately make it addictive in order to keep you in their pockets regardless of any consequences to your health and life.........murderous intent.

Yeah, nah. Cigarettes are addictive for the reason that nature made the Nicotiana Tabacum plant a hallucinogenic entheogen, something that Homo Sapiens find pretty groovy. Tobacco companies make cigarettes to fit with the consumer profile of a certain market, both in terms of flavour and what is known as "delivery". Wealthier nations tend to prefer milder cigarettes whilst countries like Fiji & Papua New Guinea prefer smoking some nastyasfuck shit, often rolled in newsprint. If it was as simple as is often believed, we'd all be smoking "Spear" brand tobacco...
http://www.sciencephoto.com/image/146940/530wm/C0084012-Local_cigarette,_Papua_New_Guinea-SPL.jpg

IMHO the anger often expressed towards "Big Tobacco" is a bit over-dramatic. Mankind has been using the shit for more than 10,000 years. If drinking tea was found to be carcinogenic tomorrow would the Bell Tea Co. be viewed similarly if still trading with similar "murderous intent"? Don't get me wrong, the pricks have very little in the way of morals or corporate responsibility, particularly evident in emerging markets.

ducatilover

18th January 2012, 22:55

We all have different perspectives of the amount of risk we are willing to take for our enjoyment. I know that falling off a bike is going to hurt, yet I love bikes and riding them. I won't do skydiving or bungy jumping though, and the reason I never made it as a winner in most sports was that while I ejoyed them, especially tennis and badminton, I don't have the killer instinct, that final ounce of whatever it took to win every time. I enjoyed being good at what I did and in knowing I could win, but I preferred to play the game for the enjoyment of it and was just as pleased, if not more so, when my opponent had a good game and won.

That's also why I would never have made a great motorcycle racer, I always pulled back at the edge and didn't push the limits, so I would have always been an also-ran.

Smoking, though, I put into a different category altogether as is it literally Russian Roulette with your life and health. The cigarettes are addictive for the reason that the manufacturers deliberately make it addictive in order to keep you in their pockets regardless of any consequences to your health and life. It is my anger at them that makes me doggedly opposed to smoking, (along with the health effects), as I would never see any company profit from a product that they know full well leads to the suffering and death of their customers nor support them in any way that condones their murderous intent.

Of course it is your choice and it is not my place to tell you not to do anything, and all will do what they wish, it is everyone's innate right.

Knowing what smoking cigarettes does, including causing the very nervous conditions people claim they help calm down, (with prescription pain-killer addiction, it is called "rebound" when the pain-killers cause the very pain you are taking them for), I just feel sad.

I do know first-hand what drug addiction is and I went through a living hell to get off them a few years ago. I was addicted to DHC and it nearly killed me. It had an iron grip on my body and mind and I never want to experience that ever again!

Yup, but as the market shrinks, they look for new suckers to hook, witness the very high levels of nicotine they use in countries without the strict controls even NZ has. If we didn't have such controls they would use whatever level they felt was required to ensure their customers remained addicted, and even increase their addiction to the point where it would be almost impossible to quit. I respect & understand what you're saying completely Ed, but as I've said, I'll do as I want. I'll smoke where people don't get the second hand effects or complain.

With respect to those who smoke, it is too true, the saying that, "You don't smoke, the cigarette smokes, you are merely the sucker on the end of it."

:D That's brilliant

gatch

19th January 2012, 06:09

Whats annoys me, is that if it hadn't been made illegal in the states in the early 1900s. This argument wouldn't exist. No sane logical government would have made Cannabis illegal, based purely on the pros and cons of it.

Does it kill people ? no. Are the active ingredients carcinogens, or cause aids, or any other kind of virus/disease ? no. Does thc kill cells in a developed brain ? no. Does it cause depression or other mental illness in people who are not prone to these conditions ? no.

Like in a murder trial, you couldn't get a conviction for something you didn't do. Unless someone smarter than you had a vested interest in you going to prison...

Edbear

19th January 2012, 06:49

oneofsix

19th January 2012, 07:02

Spoken like a user. You can get the same cancers from smoking dope as cigarettes. A well documented side effect is paranoia. Only users defend it as "harmless".

awh come on Edbear, didn't you notice the cunning hair splitting in his post. He soooooo funny.

"Are the active ingredients carcinogens", well neither is nicotine, it is the other shit that
comes with it.

"Does it kill people", neither do cigarettes, it is the cancer etc they cause that kills them.

Now this one you could have a whole thread about;
"Does it cause depression or other mental illness in people who are not prone to these conditions"
Imagine the argument regarding and defining prone to the condition and did the cannabis make them prone etc. Sorry have seen too much evidence, not court of law proven though, that heavy user will get depression to the point were some will kill themselves.

There is an argument that it was so heavily outlawed because the cotton industry at the time was worried about hemp as a fabric. Unlike more toxic drug, opium for example, it was not even allowed to be investigated as having possible medical application and this is where things went too far.

Bikemad

19th January 2012, 07:13

A well documented side effect is paranoia.

are you guys talking about me again???

eelracing

19th January 2012, 07:24

Intrigued to know exactly what you enjoy about it...
It stinks, you get no 'hit' from it....where is the pleasure from smoking ciggies apart from stopping its "side effects"?

Really? For me I enjoy a cigarette for some quiet contemplation, 5 minutes to myself to sit, smoke and mull. Or after a sesh, or with a drink, after a meal, or reading a book or after a root.

All of the above apply but I can also add that after a race and while the adrenalin is still coursing through the veins the rush is something else...that's my favourite time to have a cigarette.

But I know what Edbear is getting at and my fitness now is not great as before I just got through on stamina and thats deserting me even more these days, somethings gotta give soon.

Edbear

19th January 2012, 07:25

awh come on Edbear, didn't you notice the cunning hair splitting in his post. He soooooo funny.

"Are the active ingredients carcinogens", well neither is nicotine, it is the other shit that
comes with it.

"Does it kill people", neither do cigarettes, it is the cancer etc they cause that kills them.

Now this one you could have a whole thread about;
"Does it cause depression or other mental illness in people who are not prone to these conditions"
Imagine the argument regarding and defining prone to the condition and did the cannabis make them prone etc. Sorry have seen too much evidence, not court of law proven though, that heavy user will get depression to the point were some will kill themselves.

There is an argument that it was so heavily outlawed because the cotton industry at the time was worried about hemp as a fabric. Unlike more toxic drug, opium for example, it was not even allowed to be investigated as having possible medical application and this is where things went too far.

Most herbs have value in some way and usually in health or medicine. Cannabis seems to have medical uses that are now being investigated.

Edbear

19th January 2012, 07:28

are you guys talking about me again???

Of course not...:shutup:

Edbear

19th January 2012, 07:31

All of the above apply but I can also add that after a race and while the adrenalin is still coursing through the veins the rush is something else...that's my favourite time to have a cigarette.

But I know what Edbear is getting at and my fitness now is not great as before I just got through on stamina and thats deserting me even more these days, somethings gotta give soon.

You make a very good point. Ask any health professional or sports/fitness instructor and you know the advice you will get.

scissorhands

19th January 2012, 07:51

Spoken like a user. You can get the same cancers from smoking dope as cigarettes. A well documented side effect is paranoia. Only users defend it as "harmless".

Thats why it should be eaten and in tinctures, as it was sold in pharmacy's for 100's of years... Weed is actually a anti-cancer treatment Ed, do some reading instead of quoting Mildred from church

Ed, you talk about 'research' all the time, yet quote wives tales and continue half truths and lies that suit your worldview and political/social/religious bias

At this stage cannabis looks a lot less harmful that some of the moralistic emotional blackmail that various financial interest groups bandy about, harming NZ youth with propaganda over facts!! Recirculating untruths and propaganda for your status within their pack, (like the guys they hire to cheer the speaker and turn the masses.....)

all the while harming young NZers with confounding statements that are contrary to their own real life experiences and that of the wider public

all the while the kids have to listen to lying officials, or lying anti prohibitionists:yes:..... and are caught in the middle of a money go round, and corporate battle for the recreational dollar of NZ youf

Yes, everyone including me can be a dumb fucker quoting garbage from their ethnocentric gang leaders asshole. I could quote rubbish from the cannabis culture movement handbook, just like you fire off your prohibitionist handbook rubbish, and at the end of the day we are both wrong and both harming the young people of NZ

Its depressing when you think about it. meh

Your leaders have a big stage, and many ardent and earnest followers with contacts...........bit like the destiny church eh? political clout......even on TV, in papers, doesnt make it any less garbage though, prolly makes it more harmful rubbish tho due to its prevalence and financial interests giving it legitimacy

Amen to all the fucking parrot monkeys on both sides of the fence.

Your mainstream rhetoric and the alternative rhetoric of the cannabis culture movement........ is a language of financial interests, and fuck the children. SAD

scissorhands

19th January 2012, 08:09

Last night I sat at a table where the 15 or so cannabis users put away rather large quantities of high grade cannabis for 4-5 hours on end!

I commented on how angry and irritable I had been, since I had not smoked for 3 days. I said

'well I suppose if I wasn't addicted to weed I would just have a junk food addiction, smoke tobacco and harm my self proportionally more than with cannabis, thereby costing the taxpayer and myself much more, financially and socially'

reply from everyone: so your assuming cannabis is addictive???

meh, 95% of everyone is full of shit!!

why else would I have withdrawal rage??

and this is from A+ student double degree dick brains

Edbear

19th January 2012, 08:22

Thats why it should be eaten and in tinctures, as it was sold in pharmacy's for 100's of years... Weed is actually a anti-cancer treatment Ed, do some reading instead of quoting Mildred from church

Ed, you talk about 'research' all the time, yet quote wives tales and continue half truths and lies that suit your worldview and political/social/religious bias

At this stage cannabis looks a lot less harmful that some of the moralistic emotional blackmail that various financial interest groups bandy about, harming NZ youth with propaganda over facts!! Recirculating untruths and propaganda for your status within their pack, (like the guys they hire to cheer the speaker and turn the masses.....)

all the while harming young NZers with confounding statements that are contrary to their own real life experiences and that of the wider public

all the while the kids have to listen to lying officials, or lying anti prohibitionists:yes:..... and are caught in the middle of a money go round, and corporate battle for the recreational dollar of NZ youf

Yes, everyone including me can be a dumb fucker quoting garbage from their ethnocentric gang leaders asshole. I could quote rubbish from the cannabis culture movement handbook, just like you fire off your prohibitionist handbook rubbish, and at the end of the day we are both wrong and both harming the young people of NZ

Its depressing when you think about it. meh

Your leaders have a big stage, and many ardent and earnest followers with contacts...........bit like the destiny church eh? political clout......even on TV, in papers, doesnt make it any less garbage though, prolly makes it more harmful rubbish tho due to its prevalence and financial interests giving it legitimacy

Amen to all the fucking parrot monkeys on both sides of the fence.

Your mainstream rhetoric and the alternative rhetoric of the cannabis culture movement........ is a language of financial interests, and fuck the children. SAD

Last night I sat at a table where the 15 or so cannabis users put away rather large quantities of high grade cannabis for 4-5 hours on end!

I commented on how angry and irritable I had been, since I had not smoked for 3 days. I said

'well I suppose if I wasn't addicted to weed I would just have a junk food addiction, smoke tobacco and harm my self proportionally more than with cannabis, thereby costing the taxpayer and myself much more, financially and socially'

reply from everyone: so your assuming cannabis is addictive???

meh, 95% of everyone is full of shit!!

why else would I have withdrawal rage??

and this is from A+ student double degree dick brains

Careful, you're beginning to sound paranoid.. :innocent:

scissorhands

19th January 2012, 08:38

Careful, you're beginning to sound paranoid.. :innocent:

I expected such a clever response

I reached out to you to try and connect in truth and honesty, and you push us back in our respective dishonest rhetoric corners.

nice one Ed

continue as you are then

Edbear

19th January 2012, 08:46

I expected such a clever response

I reached out to you to try and connect in truth and honesty, and you push us back in our respective dishonest rhetoric corners.

nice one Ed

continue as you are then

You need to read all I post, not pick and choose out of context. Nothing I have posted is lies or propaganda and nothing from anywhere but established medical documentation and research. You attack me with prejudice and are factually incorrect which does your argument no good.

You come across as angry and defensive which serves merely to confirm you are addicted to the effects of dope without care for the known harmful side effects. You do not use it for medical reasons so to argue any positive benefits is a moot point and does not apply to you.

scissorhands

19th January 2012, 08:53

Whatever Ed

I remember years of dog with a bone, holy roller arguments you have on KB

As you were good man, I try to learn by my mistakes and accidents, I tried putting god in my pocket, but she kept on tickling my balls when I opened my gob

Mysterious ways are beyond my scope of comprehension, so I deter to your wisdom

Please urinate on this spot after me, but please consider the youth of NZ's real welfare next time you piss on something

mashman

19th January 2012, 09:25

What saddens me is that I have lost friends and family to cancer and heart/lung disease as a direct consequence of cigarette smoking. It is truly a horrible way to suffer and die. One got mouth/throat cancer, another the worst type of Emphisema and heart failure. It is not quick, it is horribly disfiguring and you suffer greatly until you just want to die and get it over with.

Is smoking the only thing that causes mouth/throat cancer? Does emphasyma and heart failure only occur in those that smoke? Should women who have a history of breast cancer in the family remove their breasts just in case? I'm not excusing smoking, and whilst I will accept your russian roulette argument, I won't accept your direct consequence argument because it is not a fact that smoking is 100% responsible for ANY cancer or disease. I have no doubt that it is a contributing factor to damaging a persons health and that there is a higher probability that a person will contract a smoking attributed (not related) disease, but it isn't the only thing that damages a persons health and people who don't smoke die of exactly the same diseases as those who do smoke. Russian Roulette at best... I only started smoking to help with my gambling habit...

Would you class that as denial?

scumdog

19th January 2012, 09:41

Smoking - it's your choice.
And when I say why? - you will say why not.

Indeed, if you've got nothing better to do with $50,000 and more in your lifetime and don't give a shit about health issues then go for it.

Me? - I'll just keep spending my money on gas-guzzlers and stuff like that

(When I was 15 I looked at the price on a packet of cigarettes and thought "Crap, that's a gallon of petrol"
Now I'm laughing even more 'cos a packet of 20 costs way more than a gallon of gas.:woohoo:

And $50,000 spent on tobacco will get you nowhere and give you nothing tangible to show for it...unless you have a fettish for old cigarette butts and empty Bic-Flics

But hey, what do I know - I don't smoke.

mashman

19th January 2012, 09:48

Smoking - it's your choice.

Now I'm laughing even more 'cos a packet of 20 costs way more than a gallon of gas.:woohoo:

Not in every case it isn't. I don't choose to inhale your exhaust fumes.

You're possibly giving people cancer with your second hand bike smoke :innocent:

oneofsix

19th January 2012, 09:48

Is smoking the only thing that causes mouth/throat cancer? Does emphasyma and heart failure only occur in those that smoke? Should women who have a history of breast cancer in the family remove their breasts just in case? I'm not excusing smoking, and whilst I will accept your russian roulette argument, I won't accept your direct consequence argument because it is not a fact that smoking is 100% responsible for ANY cancer or disease. I have no doubt that it is a contributing factor to damaging a persons health and that there is a higher probability that a person will contract a smoking attributed (not related) disease, but it isn't the only thing that damages a persons health and people who don't smoke die of exactly the same diseases as those who do smoke. Russian Roulette at best... I only started smoking to help with my gambling habit...

Would you class that as denial?

Russian Roulette with a double barrelled shotgun and a single cartridge.

mashman

19th January 2012, 09:49

Russian Roulette with a double barrelled shotgun and a single cartridge.

but the question is, do I feel lucky :)

scumdog

19th January 2012, 09:54

Not in every case it isn't. I don't choose to inhale your exhaust fumes.

You're possibly giving people cancer with your second hand bike smoke :innocent:

a You don't live anywhere near me....:pinch:

b And I guess you don't use any petrol fueled device yourself??:corn:

mashman

19th January 2012, 09:57

a You don't live anywhere near me....:pinch:

b And I guess you don't use any petrol fueled device yourself??:corn:

a. I'm not the only person on the planet, I'm sure there are people living near you... poor fuckers.

b. hence the :innocent:

SMOKEU

19th January 2012, 10:36

Russian Roulette with a double barrelled shotgun and a single cartridge.

This?

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_tZl5yixVpZs/S67AlhKLgTI/AAAAAAAADIE/n1oxZgjF_hY/s1600/shotgun-suicide-eye-intact-500x375.jpg

ducatilover

19th January 2012, 10:53

Russian Roulette with a double barrelled shotgun and a single cartridge.
Or with a Colt 1911A1 with a single shell? :eek5:

Edbear

20th January 2012, 20:08

Thats why it should be eaten and in tinctures, as it was sold in pharmacy's for 100's of years... Weed is actually a anti-cancer treatment Ed, do some reading instead of quoting Mildred from church

Ed, you talk about 'research' all the time, yet quote wives tales and continue half truths and lies that suit your worldview and political/social/religious bias

At this stage cannabis looks a lot less harmful that some of the moralistic emotional blackmail that various financial interest groups bandy about, harming NZ youth with propaganda over facts!! Recirculating untruths and propaganda for your status within their pack, (like the guys they hire to cheer the speaker and turn the masses.....)

all the while harming young NZers with confounding statements that are contrary to their own real life experiences and that of the wider public

all the while the kids have to listen to lying officials, or lying anti prohibitionists:yes:..... and are caught in the middle of a money go round, and corporate battle for the recreational dollar of NZ youf

Yes, everyone including me can be a dumb fucker quoting garbage from their ethnocentric gang leaders asshole. I could quote rubbish from the cannabis culture movement handbook, just like you fire off your prohibitionist handbook rubbish, and at the end of the day we are both wrong and both harming the young people of NZ

Its depressing when you think about it. meh

Your leaders have a big stage, and many ardent and earnest followers with contacts...........bit like the destiny church eh? political clout......even on TV, in papers, doesnt make it any less garbage though, prolly makes it more harmful rubbish tho due to its prevalence and financial interests giving it legitimacy

Amen to all the fucking parrot monkeys on both sides of the fence.

Your mainstream rhetoric and the alternative rhetoric of the cannabis culture movement........ is a language of financial interests, and fuck the children. SAD

So you take it as a tincture to treat your cancer?

Notice it is the addicts who smoke it for recreation who are the angry, defensive ones who use totally irrelevant arguments to defend their using it to get high?

DMNTD

20th January 2012, 20:12

Notice it is the addicts who smoke it for recreation who are the angry, defensive ones who use totally irrelevant arguments to defend their using it to get high?

Think you might find it is us that smoke occasionally for whatever reason that take offense of being lumped in with the useless stoners, much like those who have the occasional drink being lumped in with alcoholics.

Edbear

20th January 2012, 20:19

Think you might find it is us that smoke occasionally for whatever reason that take offense of being lumped in with the useless stoners, much like those who have the occasional drink being lumped in with alcoholics.

I didn't notice you getting angry and abusive and using spurious arguments against me. :confused:

What I have tried to say here, and anyone reviewing my posts without the cloud of cannabis permeating their brain will very readily see that I was trying to encourage quitting smoking for health reasons.

Some are severely lacking in reading comprehension and are so paranoid they see any mention of anything that goes against their addiction as a personal attack...

DMNTD

20th January 2012, 20:32

I didn't notice you getting angry and abusive and using spurious arguments against me. :confused:

What I have tried to say here, and anyone reviewing my posts without the cloud of cannabis permeating their brain will very readily see that I was trying to encourage quitting smoking for health reasons.

Some are severely lacking in reading comprehension and are so paranoid they see any mention of anything that goes against their addiction as a personal attack...

Heh....I guess the keyboard hides so much.
BTW, far from paranoid or angry here but I can and do get more than a little frustrated when people with no personal experience (not referring to you in particular) state how bad cannibliss utilisation or occasional personal use is when they choose to only look at the worst possible scenario when it comes to its use.
Imagine if we thought that way about alcohol or worse still...motorcycling :laugh: The amount of BS I've heard from people saying that motorcycles are the 'killers' is ridiculous..it's (most of the time) the muppits on top of them that are.

Edbear

20th January 2012, 20:42

Heh....I guess the keyboard hides so much.
BTW, far from paranoid or angry here but I can and do get more than a little frustrated when people with no personal experience (not referring to you in particular) state how bad cannibliss utilisation or occasional personal use is when they choose to only look at the worst possible scenario when it comes to its use.
Imagine if we thought that way about alcohol or worse still...motorcycling :laugh: The amount of BS I've heard from people saying that motorcycles are the 'killers' is ridiculous..it's (most of the time) the muppits on top of them that are.

Maybe I'm a strange bloke but accepting we perceive justifiable risk differently as individuals I don't enjoy anything that reduces my mental faculties, including alcohol. As for risk it is medical fact that while there is a safe level of alcohol with even some benefits to drinking red wine for example, there is no safe level of smoking nor any possible health benefits.

I'm not a teetotaller and do enjoy a beer on a hot day but stop at one or two at the most before it starts to adversely affect me.

DMNTD

20th January 2012, 20:48

Maybe I'm a strange bloke but accepting we perceive justifiable risk differently as individuals I don't enjoy anything that reduces my mental faculties, including alcohol. As for risk it is medical fact that while there is a safe level of alcohol with even some benefits to drinking red wine for example, there is no safe level of smoking nor any possible health benefits.

I'm not a teetotaller and do enjoy a beer on a hot day but stop at one or two at the most before it starts to adversely affect me.

No not strange, you just have your opinion which you're entitled to.
However, what can one do these days that some white coated twat hasn't "proved" is bad for you? Too much water...naha. Too much wah wah...no.

You enjoy the occasional beer, good onya. Some enjoy the occasional puff...I still don't see the difference.

mashman

20th January 2012, 21:05

Maybe I'm a strange bloke but accepting we perceive justifiable risk differently as individuals I don't enjoy anything that reduces my mental faculties

So cannabis reduces a persons mental faculties? Can you explain that further? I mean is that the initial 30 minutes? I find it does quite the opposite.

DMNTD

20th January 2012, 21:10

http://images.sodahead.com/polls/001538213/625460721_weed_answer_5_xlarge.jpeg

jrandom

20th January 2012, 21:17

So cannabis reduces a persons mental faculties? Can you explain that further? I mean is that the initial 30 minutes? I find it does quite the opposite.

Ed can't explain it, because he's never tried it.

But he knows enough to know that he doesn't want to, and neither should you.

mashman

20th January 2012, 21:22

Ed can't explain it, because he's never tried it.

But he knows enough to know that he doesn't want to, and neither should you.

I appreciate that and he is right in regards to smoking, but I'd like to know where the idea that my mental faculties suddenly vanish when I have a joint comes from.

I know, but the voices tell me to do it.

scumdog

20th January 2012, 21:31

So cannabis reduces a persons mental faculties? Can you explain that further? I mean is that the initial 30 minutes? I find it does quite the opposite.

Did you find that when you were stoned or whne you were straight???:shutup:

mashman

20th January 2012, 21:43

Did you find that when you were stoned or whne you were straight???:shutup:

When I were both.

haydes55

20th January 2012, 22:39

Weed is fine, get baked have a good time. Have a sleep, when you wake up, no hang over, feeling fine, no damage.

The negative effects of weed are mainly making average Joes go to gang tinny houses and feed gangs huge amounts of money, otherwise productive members of society getting prosecuted for what? Having fun, harming no one.

It isn't a gateway drug, If it was decriminalised price would go down supply would go up and so would demand, that sounds bad but that would be in substitute of other harder drugs and alcohol. Druggies are going to smoke drugs regardless of legality. Make weed legal, these druggies would rather be safer and stick with weed. Weed causes near no harm (watching TV probably fucks up your brain more in the long term), so why not encourage weed as opposed to harder drugs and alcohol.

scissorhands

21st January 2012, 07:06

Edbear

21st January 2012, 08:33

No not strange, you just have your opinion which you're entitled to.
However, what can one do these days that some white coated twat hasn't "proved" is bad for you? Too much water...naha. Too much wah wah...no.

You enjoy the occasional beer, good onya. Some enjoy the occasional puff...I still don't see the difference.

It's like alcohol and other mood/mind altering drugs, but it is the way it is delivered that is inherently harmful. Smoking is a known carcinogenic and there is no safe way to smoke. It is toxic as is the smoke from burning rubber or plastic.l It has no health benefits when used as a recreational drug.

So cannabis reduces a persons mental faculties? Can you explain that further? I mean is that the initial 30 minutes? I find it does quite the opposite.

See above.

http://images.sodahead.com/polls/001538213/625460721_weed_answer_5_xlarge.jpeg

He also made Arsenic, go for it...

Ed can't explain it, because he's never tried it.

But he knows enough to know that he doesn't want to, and neither should you.

Funny how it's the favourite of users to shoot the messenger and get personal. I quote medical science from recognised authorites, and users, in paranoid defence, make out it is my personal opinion and attack and denigrate me personally. That's really going to convince everyone they are rational and logical and reasonable eh?

Did you learn everything by trying it out for yourself? That was really intelligent...

I appreciate that and he is right in regards to smoking, but I'd like to know where the idea that my mental faculties suddenly vanish when I have a joint comes from.

I know, but the voices tell me to do it.

Please, you exagerate, see my first answer to DMNTD above.

Again in answer to DMNTD, the world is ful of self-professed experts and these days it seems that everything we do or touch or eat will give us cancer. What you have to be aware of is those who claim a link by statistics are very different from those scientists and researechers who actually study the subject from the medical point of view and publish peer-reviewed and confirmable data on it.

Personally I prefer to take qualified and properly researched medical reviews and it is this that I study and research for myself, then post.

jrandom

21st January 2012, 08:39

Personally I prefer to take qualified and properly researched medical reviews and it is this that I study and research for myself, then post.

I suspect you of being full of shit.

Link us to the abstract of the last medical paper you 'studied'. Or are your 'medical reviews' published in the Herald On Sunday, Watchtower, and News of the World?

I wonder whether your conscience will allow you to lie about this.

:sherlock:

Edbear

21st January 2012, 08:54

I suspect you of being full of shit.

Link us to the abstract of the last medical paper you 'studied'. Or are your 'medical reviews' published in the Herald On Sunday, Watchtower, and News of the World?

I wonder whether your conscience will allow you to lie about this.

:sherlock:

Spoken like a true idiot. You could find all the medical papers for yourself, as could everyone here, but as with all addicts and as with in every other thread, you will resort to personal attack and stupid arguments like this and think you are so clever that you can get at me.

Your self-centered bigotry is boring to intelligent people, go back to your playstation and dope.

haydes55

21st January 2012, 09:07

Smoking is a known carcinogenic and there is no safe way to smoke.

Never heard of a vaporiser? Releases the chemicals without releasing any smoke. Safe to use and is recommended by places offering medicinal marijuana, no side effects caused by the act of smoking.

Secondly that pisses me off when people say marijuana is bad because smoking it causes cancer. Bull shit having half a cigarettes worth of smoking weed wont harm you as much as 99.9% of smokers smoking tobacco, look at amount smoked. Tobacco smokers will smoke 10-20 cigarettes every day, shit yea thats going to screw your lungs up. Weed smokers usually a heavy smoker (stoner) might have 3 a day, I personally haven't ever had more than 2 a week. I would have to smoke weed for 10 weeks to equate the same damage as a pack a day smoker smokes in one day. The smoke you breath in from marijuana has no additives like tobacco which makes the smoke even more dangerous.

Edbear

21st January 2012, 09:11

Never heard of a vaporiser? Releases the chemicals without releasing any smoke. Safe to use and is recommended by places offering medicinal marijuana, no side effects caused by the act of smoking.

Secondly that pisses me off when people say marijuana is bad because smoking it causes cancer. Bull shit having half a cigarettes worth of smoking weed wont harm you as much as 99.9% of smokers smoking tobacco, look at amount smoked. Tobacco smokers will smoke 10-20 cigarettes every day, shit yea thats going to screw your lungs up. Weed smokers usually a heavy smoker (stoner) might have 3 a day, I personally haven't ever had more than 2 a week. I would have to smoke weed for 10 weeks to equate the same damage as a pack a day smoker smokes in one day. The smoke you breath in from marijuana has no additives like tobacco which makes the smoke even more dangerous.

Again you miss the point with irrelevant arguments. Do you use a vapouriser? No, you smoke it and you cannot argue that smoke is not toxic and carcinogenic.

Any amount of smoke is. Sure, the more you smoke the greater the chance, that's bleeding obvious but that's not what I said, is it?

Madness

21st January 2012, 09:18

http://cf1.8tracks.us/mix_covers/000/407/457/19696.max200.jpg

SMOKEU

21st January 2012, 09:22

mashman

21st January 2012, 09:24

It's like alcohol and other mood/mind altering drugs, but it is the way it is delivered that is inherently harmful. Smoking is a known carcinogenic and there is no safe way to smoke. It is toxic as is the smoke from burning rubber or plastic.l It has no health benefits when used as a recreational drug.

So you're not inherently against cannabis use?

I see recreational use for stress relief as a health benefit, as stress is a killer.

Madness

21st January 2012, 09:45

It looks like Ed took my advice & has gone for a bicycle ride...

Edbear

21st January 2012, 09:51

You forgot that THC is a bronchial dialator, which is the opposite of tobacco.

That will never alter the fact that smoke inhalation is toxic in any amount.

So you're not inherently against cannabis use?

I see recreational use for stress relief as a health benefit, as stress is a killer.

I believe there are probable medical benefits to cannabis that are already being investigated. What this thread is about, is that people want to smoke it for the effects it has on the mind and mood and they are using any kind of spurious argument they can to justify getting stoned. Let's be honest here.

It looks like Ed took my advice & has gone for a bicycle ride...

Just about to take Grandson and wife out to the beach. Happy day yesterday, our second Grandson was born and all are well. :sunny:

superman

21st January 2012, 09:54

That will never alter the fact that smoke inhalation is toxic in any amount.

Meh, brownies hit you so much better anyway. :shutup:

Madness

21st January 2012, 09:54

Happy day yesterday, our second Grandson was born and all are well. :sunny:

That's awesome, Ed! Congratulations.

I'll have a spot in your Grandson's honour. :shifty:

SMOKEU

21st January 2012, 10:05

Meh, brownies hit you so much better anyway. :shutup:

I can't say I've ever tried them.

haydes55

21st January 2012, 10:06

Again you miss the point with irrelevant arguments. Do you use a vapouriser? No, you smoke it and you cannot argue that smoke is not toxic and carcinogenic.

Any amount of smoke is. Sure, the more you smoke the greater the chance, that's bleeding obvious but that's not what I said, is it?

Actually made a vaporiser out of a light bulb and straws.

it is the way it is delivered that is inherently harmful

That is exactly what you said, you are saying the main harm in weed (behind the mind altering effects) is the way it is delivered. How can you justify weed being so bad when the only harm is 70 time lower than smoking cigarettes? And if that is such a concern then are you opposed to vaporisers being used to smoke weed?

Marijuana has been smoked for centuries by people like Indians. It's only been prohibited in recent society. As far as I can see, without valid reasoning aswell.

superman

21st January 2012, 10:08

I can't say I've ever tried them.

:shit: But... nom nom nom?

Having never tried them till I was 18 or so I guzzled down a good 3-4 at about 11:30pm. Went to sleep, woke up at 6am... JESUS CHRIST.

I've never been that high since. The smokos definitely relax, the brownies just fuck you up.

jrandom

21st January 2012, 10:13

You're right, I got nothin', fuck you, waaa

Heh.

As I suspected.

Edit: Ed, if you're going to claim to be well-informed when in reality all that you're doing is parroting conservative mass-media pap while implying that you read professional medical literature, you must expect to have your nose rubbed in it.

mashman

21st January 2012, 10:20

I believe there are probable medical benefits to cannabis that are already being investigated. What this thread is about, is that people want to smoke it for the effects it has on the mind and mood and they are using any kind of spurious argument they can to justify getting stoned. Let's be honest here.

Finally being investigated eh :). Wonder what took them so long? The spurious arguments all have merit in my eyes, as pretty much any and every argument on here acknowledges the health risk associated with smoking. As for altering mind and mood, music and colour do the same thing, as does the company we keep, subject matter of a conversation :innocent: etc... and if getting stoned is about changing mind and mood then I'd say we're already conditioned to being "stoned" in one form or another. Do you revile anti-depressants is a similar way? I know the benefits I get from cannabis use, I'm also fully aware of the potential mental dangers... and if a side-effect of those benefits is being stoned, then so be it. Yes people like getting stoned and they use all sorts of substances to do it... as far as the "stoners" are concerned, they're choosing the lesser evil of the substances available... and I tend to agree with them.

haydes55

21st January 2012, 10:27

mashman

21st January 2012, 10:56

so why not encourage weed as opposed to harder drugs and alcohol.

coz they'd have to let people out of jail for related offences and those people would claim damages and they'd end up with streets full of people having fun and they'd lose huge revenues on alcohol sales and it would promote free thinking and they would have to cut police numbers drastically when crime dropped and they'd have to admit that they were wrong and that they had been a bunch of ignorant fuckwits for the majority of their lives... probably a few more, but I think it's more the fuckwit perspective side of things that they're worried about as that would question their character.

SMOKEU

21st January 2012, 10:57

http://www.marijuana.com/myths/4

have a read, these guys actually read the marijuana use studies and experiments that the USA govt. ignore because the results don't support prohibition.

In the end marijuana may slightly harm the user (far less dangerous than trying to ride a push bike on the side of the road), however no third party is harmed in any way, marijuana is smoked in private, no second hand smoke, users don't get aggressive. Users don't cost the medical system any more money than if they didn't smoke it. What if the government decided that eating cheese was to be made illegal, would you support that? Eating cheese causes heart disease, obesity, cholesterol problems and costs the tax payers money in medical bills. Cheese is legal because it is each persons responsibility to to choose how much and when they eat cheese, they don't cause harm to anyone else but themselves. I would seriously find it harder to argue to legalise cheese than to legalise marijuana. Cheese causes more deaths than shark attacks! haha

Plenty of people these days are too busy working to cook healthy food, so they feed their kids on KFC and other unhealthy takeways. Little kids don't know that eating KFC and deep fried fish and chips is unhealthy. Said little kids become fat from a young age, and find it very difficult to lose weight later on in life. Obesity kills many people in NZ and costs the taxpayers millions of $ for health care. Obese people are likely to suffer from problems such as sleep apnoea, diabetes, heart disease etc. All of which costs the tax payers a shitload of money. But there's nothing illegal about that.

SMOKEU

21st January 2012, 10:58

coz they'd have to let people out of jail for related offences and those people would claim damages and they'd end up with streets full of people having fun and they'd lose huge revenues on alcohol sales and it would promote free thinking and they would have to cut police numbers drastically when crime dropped and they'd have to admit that they were wrong and that they had been a bunch of ignorant fuckwits for the majority of their lives... probably a few more, but I think it's more the fuckwit perspective that they're worried about as that would question their character.

It's all about control. The jews want to control peoples lives, and they want to make criminals out of ordinary people. They want to stick their noses in everyones business just for the sake of it.

puddytat

21st January 2012, 11:52

Usarka

21st January 2012, 12:50

I believe there are probable medical benefits to cannabis that are already being investigated. What this thread is about, is that people want to smoke it for the effects it has on the mind and mood and they are using any kind of spurious argument they can to justify getting stoned. Let's be honest here.

What's wrong with feeling good? Lot's of things affect the way you feel (for the better) - coffee, tea, chocolate, sugar, exercise as some examples all of which affect brain chemistry. Some people even find going to church to worship a mythical being makes them feel happy, calm and relaxed.

The only negative point about weed that you've made is that smoke is bad for you......

Do you use a vapouriser? No, you smoke it and you cannot argue that smoke is not toxic and carcinogenic.

Yes I do, with sanction from my quack. So what's your objection to me smoking weed?????

mashman

21st January 2012, 13:32

Must be a statistic somwhere showing the "cost" of Dak to society in comparison to Obesity....Ohbeasty people dont even need weed to get the munchies. The smokers I know are generally on the lean side whereas all the TUBBIES are scoffing shite so maybe weed could also be a drug used to help all those fat persons ?

It certainly kept my weight in check :yes: to the point where people I saw most days noticed the loss of weight. I guess us fatties will have to wait for a synthetic version that will have a list of side effects as long as your arm and will be as addictive as anti-depressants. Until then the health service will just have to groan under the strain.

Edbear

21st January 2012, 13:55

What's wrong with feeling good? Lot's of things affect the way you feel (for the better) - coffee, tea, chocolate, sugar, exercise as some examples all of which affect brain chemistry. Some people even find going to church to worship a mythical being makes them feel happy, calm and relaxed.

The only negative point about weed that you've made is that smoke is bad for you......

Yes I do, with sanction from my quack. So what's your objection to me smoking weed?????

What do you take it for?

Smoking is a health hazard, end of argument.

My issue with Cannabis is as with alcohol and other mind altering drugs. I like to keep my faculties intact.

Contrary to user's belief the effects of these drugs is to fool the user that their faculties are enhanced whereas properly conducted research proves otherwise.

You think you are not adversely affected when in reality you are.

haydes55

21st January 2012, 15:28

What do you take it for?

Smoking is a health hazard, end of argument.

My issue with Cannabis is as with alcohol and other mind altering drugs. I like to keep my faculties intact.

Contrary to user's belief the effects of these drugs is to fool the user that their faculties are enhanced whereas properly conducted research proves otherwise.

You think you are not adversely affected when in reality you are.

for the 3rd time, using a vaporiser isn't harmful in any way, marijuana can be administered as an oil aswell, so there could be ways of it being legal only in certain forms. Thus no danger to anyones lungs. As it is people will smoke it legal or not. When it's illegal everyone foots the bill for the health care. If it was legal those costs can be an added tax such as alcohol.

Everyone who smokes weed knows it makes them dumber for a while, it's called getting stoned for a reason, not because your head is full of so much information that your head gets as heavy as a stone.

After regular smoking I still passed first year law at uni. Still feel as mentally able to this day as before I started smoking (even more so now as I have matured alot).

Every point you have made has ways around it, proof of the contrary or are just made up points that are about as believable as a 2000 year old fairy tale book that's been passed down through multiple corrupt governments who controlled religions to control the population easier and even rewrote the book so no one alive actually know's what was in the original book (which was written after the death of the prophet so is full of alot of hearsay and exaggeration.

If you can believe that fairytale then I can see how you believe the old legislation backed by false and misleading information.

Give me an actual negative effect of marijuana on society and I will admit defeat. seriously one single negative effect of marijuana on people other than those who smoke it. (waiting for the next post which is going to be a bitch about me not respecting his beliefs and ignoring this last part because he wont be able to think of a single adverse effect).

ducatilover

21st January 2012, 17:31

So all those slow "drug fucked" people I know just woke up like that, completely unrelated to marijuana smoking? :blink:

Edbear

21st January 2012, 18:00

So all those slow "drug fucked" people I know just woke up like that, completely unrelated to marijuana smoking? :blink:

A lot of people I worked with back in the '70's were heavy dope smokers and I was often around users as it was, or seemed to be, a lot more open back then. For years I saw first hand the effects on a variety of men and women. Nothing any user here has posted has changed my own observations.

It is only those who use it as a recreational drug to get high who are are seeking to justify themselves with irrelevant argument and personal attack. They can't even be honest with themselves. They simply want it legalised so they can get stoned openly without consequence but cannot bring themselves to admit that. They couldn't care less about health.

haydes55

21st January 2012, 18:18

SMOKEU

21st January 2012, 18:25

Edbear

21st January 2012, 18:36

might seem like a "I knew he was going to say that" post but I'm sure that would be from harder drugs, not marijuana. 70,000 people in NZ use it every day. If it was as a direct result of smoking weed I'm sure there would be alot more drug fucked people.

There are and it is becoming a very serious issue in many areas of life and work as well as on the road, hence the latest moves to target drug use.

I'm not saying that smoking weeds is healthy and that primary school kids should be given joints at lunch time, but it's the least harmful recreational drug in existence. Compare it with alcohol, cocaine, methamphetamine, MDMA, or any other recreational drug for harm.

For what it is worth, I don't much discriminate between most recreational drugs and have similar views about all you have mentioned. All people engaging in recreational drug use to get high, stoned, drunk or out of it on some way are lacking something in their lives IMHO.

I do recommend asking your friends and family, especially your spouse and children what they think and seriously listening to them as users are hardly in any position to judge the effects on themselves.

mashman

21st January 2012, 18:53

It is only those who use it as a recreational drug to get high who are are seeking to justify themselves with irrelevant argument and personal attack. They can't even be honest with themselves. They simply want it legalised so they can get stoned openly without consequence but cannot bring themselves to admit that. They couldn't care less about health.

I'm sorry, but the evidence that has been put forwards, re health, has been rendered absolutely moot by the fact that alcohol, fats, sugars, synthesized opiates etc... have been given legal status where each and every one of them has been scientifically proven to be worse than cannabis. The hypocrisy is astounding... it is a political decision not a scientific health based decision that keeps cannabis illegal. Therefore the scientific evidence and any results produced are political by nature. As cannabis is still being researched any results that have been produced are inherently incorrect, especially where the constituent parts of the cannabis plant occur in the body naturally. Any other argument is irrelevant as it is political by nature.

mashman

21st January 2012, 18:55

I do recommend asking your friends and family, especially your spouse and children what they think and seriously listening to them as users are hardly in any position to judge the effects on themselves.

My wife prefers me "stoned". I'll PM you my phone number and you can as her. My friends don't notice if I'm stoned or not... they just don't have a clue, even thought their children have had problems with drugs, so they do know what to look for. They all drink and don't take drugs.

Edbear

21st January 2012, 19:06

My wife prefers me "stoned". I'll PM you my phone number and you can as her. My friends don't notice if I'm stoned or not... they just don't have a clue, even thought their children have had problems with drugs, so they do know what to look for. They all drink and don't take drugs.

What are you like unstoned? :laugh:

From what you've said so far you don't seem to qualify as a heavy user either?

mashman

21st January 2012, 19:14

What are you like unstoned? :laugh:

From what you've said so far you don't seem to qualify as a heavy user either?

heh, more up tight... apparently.

For the last 6 months I've had a handful of joints... in fact they have only been since new year. Before then, probably every night for the previous 2 years give or take the odd month or so of not having any (heavy enough? certainly less heavy than back in the day, ahhhh back in the day)... and not proactively seeking it either, I don't need it, I choose it because I receive several benefits from it (benefits I noticed at an early age)... I'd like to be able to have those benefits without fear of prosecution though. If I could have the same benefits without the "high", then that's fine by me... but I won;t turn myself into a walking pill box to be that way where I have found something that works and has minimal side affects.

SMOKEU

21st January 2012, 19:31

For what it is worth, I don't much discriminate between most recreational drugs and have similar views about all you have mentioned. All people engaging in recreational drug use to get high, stoned, drunk or out of it on some way are lacking something in their lives IMHO.

So are you saying that people who have a bottle of beer to wash down their dinner are also lacking something in their lives? Alcohol is a drug, after all. It's just a legal drug.

Edbear

21st January 2012, 19:50

heh, more up tight... apparently.

For the last 6 months I've had a handful of joints... in fact they have only been since new year. Before then, probably every night for the previous 2 years give or take the odd month or so of not having any (heavy enough? certainly less heavy than back in the day, ahhhh back in the day)... and not proactively seeking it either, I don't need it, I choose it because I receive several benefits from it (benefits I noticed at an early age)... I'd like to be able to have those benefits without fear of prosecution though. If I could have the same benefits without the "high", then that's fine by me... but I won;t turn myself into a walking pill box to be that way where I have found something that works and has minimal side affects.

There is a reason why Cannabis is illegal and if anyone were to examine the readily available evidence from several sources independently and open-mindedly it is not solely because it is politically expedient to have it on the list along with so-called harder drugs.

So are you saying that people who have a bottle of beer to wash down their dinner are also lacking something in their lives? Alcohol is a drug, after all. It's just a legal drug.

See my reply to Mashman. If you were honest with yourself you would admit that you are hardly unbiased and open-minded. As I pointed out, it is the heavy addicted user who is most vocal in defense and does so in a way that definitely makes them sound paranoid.

I don't know where your brain is right now, but your reply to my previous post was all over the place and didn't get the point or answer the question I posed.

You said you do take it via a ventilator with your Drs. approval. Why do you take it?

I said very simply that smoking is a health hazard, something no-one can deny, and you go off on some wierd and strange verbal journey.

Usarka

21st January 2012, 19:57

What do you take it for?

Smoking is a health hazard, end of argument.

For the last time YOU DO NOT HAVE TO SMOKE IT. End of argument back at you, although I just know that it won't be.

My issue with Cannabis is as with alcohol and other mind altering drugs. I like to keep my faculties intact.

No coffee or tea then? Both these alter brain chemistry. Oh and exercise. You'd better not do those or your argument loses it's logic. But I'm sure you'll find a way.

Contrary to user's belief the effects of these drugs is to fool the user that their faculties are enhanced whereas properly conducted research proves otherwise.

You think you are not adversely affected when in reality you are.

Wow do you know me? Obviously not because that's about as polar opposite to realtiy as is possible.

Honestly, you seem to be judging something that don't understand and using sophistic arguments to support your uneducated judgements.

ducatilover

21st January 2012, 19:57

might seem like a "I knew he was going to say that" post but I'm sure that would be from harder drugs, not marijuana. 70,000 people in NZ use it every day. If it was as a direct result of smoking weed I'm sure there would be alot more drug fucked people.

There are a huge amount of drug fucked pot smokers...
Go to any mental health service.
I've worked with drug fucked pot smokers, I have had countless mates and associates who are fucked from smoking pot.
On the other hand, I know people who haven't shown any signs of less cognitive function after prolonged use.

I've been around the rough ones and the not so rough and there are many who get drug fucked, to argue otherwise is naive or ignorant.

Edbear

21st January 2012, 19:59

for the 3rd time, using a vaporiser isn't harmful in any way, marijuana can be administered as an oil aswell, so there could be ways of it being legal only in certain forms. Thus no danger to anyones lungs. As it is people will smoke it legal or not. When it's illegal everyone foots the bill for the health care. If it was legal those costs can be an added tax such as alcohol.

Everyone who smokes weed knows it makes them dumber for a while, it's called getting stoned for a reason, not because your head is full of so much information that your head gets as heavy as a stone.

After regular smoking I still passed first year law at uni. Still feel as mentally able to this day as before I started smoking (even more so now as I have matured alot).

Every point you have made has ways around it, proof of the contrary or are just made up points that are about as believable as a 2000 year old fairy tale book that's been passed down through multiple corrupt governments who controlled religions to control the population easier and even rewrote the book so no one alive actually know's what was in the original book (which was written after the death of the prophet so is full of alot of hearsay and exaggeration.

If you can believe that fairytale then I can see how you believe the old legislation backed by false and misleading information.

Give me an actual negative effect of marijuana on society and I will admit defeat. seriously one single negative effect of marijuana on people other than those who smoke it. (waiting for the next post which is going to be a bitch about me not respecting his beliefs and ignoring this last part because he wont be able to think of a single adverse effect).

Your brain really is rather scrambled eh?

What is the point of me posting references to medical articles from any source? Been there, done that and got nothing but vindictiveness and blanket dismissal of all and any evidence from anyone regardles of their qualifications or the respect of the research by confirming medical scientists. You anlong with some others here have shown time and again that posting atricles of science is pointless if there is anything in it that tends to prove you wrong.

So as far as that goes, you are quite capable of finding out things for yourself. The reason you won't is two-fold. Firstly, if you were to find out something for yourself you can't resort to personal vindictiveness and shooting the messenger. Secondly, you can't flatly deny the truth of it.

You much prefer to argue from prejudice and ignorance, that way you can justify your opinions.

Edbear

21st January 2012, 20:02

For the last time YOU DO NOT HAVE TO SMOKE IT. End of argument back at you, although I just know that it won't be.
No coffee or tea then? Both these alter brain chemistry. Oh and exercise. You'd better not do those or your argument loses it's logic. But I'm sure you'll find a way.

Wow do you know me? Obviously not because that's about as polar opposite to realtiy as is possible.

Honestly, you seem to be judging something that don't understand and using sophistic arguments to support your uneducated judgements.

See my reply above...

ducatilover

21st January 2012, 20:03

Give me an actual negative effect of marijuana on society and I will admit defeat. seriously one single negative effect of marijuana on people other than those who smoke it. (waiting for the next post which is going to be a bitch about me not respecting his beliefs and ignoring this last part because he wont be able to think of a single adverse effect).

Your tax paying me to work with people who have been marijuana users and now are, to be succinct, fucked? My own mother and my best mate have gone down this road.

Do you enjoy paying someone like me to work with the ignored by-product? The small percentage of marijuana smokers who end up unstable?

SMOKEU

21st January 2012, 20:04

There is a reason why Cannabis is illegal and if anyone were to examine the readily available evidence from several sources independently and open-mindedly it is not solely because it is politically expedient to have it on the list along with so-called harder drugs.

See my reply to Mashman. If you were honest with yourself you would admit that you are hardly unbiased and open-minded. As I pointed out, it is the heavy addicted user who is most vocal in defense and does so in a way that definitely makes them sound paranoid.

I don't know where your brain is right now, but your reply to my previous post was all over the place and didn't get the point or answer the question I posed.

You said you do take it via a ventilator with your Drs. approval. Why do you take it?

I said very simply that smoking is a health hazard, something no-one can deny, and you go off on some wierd and strange verbal journey.

There is a good reason why pot is illegal. It's because people such as yourself are so biased that they are unwilling to listen to scientific reasoning. It's like trying to explain evolution to a Catholic priest, or trying to tell a Muslim that Allah and the Koran are fictitious. There is no doubt that alcohol is significantly more harmful than smoking weed. Any normal healthy person who drinks alcohol but refuses to smoke pot on the grounds of health related reasons is nothing but a hypocrite of the highest level. It's like a morbidly obese person who eats KFC every day preaching healthy eating to everyone.

And no, I'm not stoned at all right now. I'm not addicted to weeds, and I don't smoke the stuff on most days. Yes I know that smoking is a health hazard. So is riding a motorcycle. So is listening to loud music. So is driving a car. So is being a passenger in an aircraft. So is eating high fat food. Breathing is a health hazard as well, plenty of people die from air pollution.

Different people have different ways of relieving stress and having fun. Some people choose to play a piano, others choose to ride dirt bikes. Some people choose to ride a Harley, while others go jogging. It's a matter of personal choice, and there is no reason why the government should make criminals out of those who choose to smoke pot.

mashman

21st January 2012, 20:05

Usarka

21st January 2012, 20:05

You much prefer to argue from prejudice and ignorance, that way you can justify your opinions.

Fuck you're a hypocrite :lol:

There are just as many bits of reasearch that say the opposite to the ones that you're talking about but not linking to.

SMOKEU

21st January 2012, 20:07

Your tax paying me to work with people who have been marijuana users and now are, to be succinct, fucked? My own mother and my best mate have gone down this road.

Do you enjoy paying someone like me to work with the ignored by-product? The small percentage of marijuana smokers who end up unstable?

So what makes you think that weed fucked them up? It's merely a suspicion you have with no evidence to prove your theory beyond a reasonable doubt.

ducatilover

21st January 2012, 20:14

So what makes you think that weed fucked them up? It's merely a suspicion you have with no evidence to prove your theory beyond a reasonable doubt.

I counter that with how do you know tobacco is bad for people? There's a correlation between smokers and cancer, but because there is no way to ethically test the theory, it cannot be proven, people who are likely to get cancer might just be people who enjoy smoking... (Pretty stupid argument, just like pot is harmless)

I have watched people go through the marijuana phase and end up fucked, I have not stated that it happens to all, just a few.
I have several articles in one of my drawers here you're more than welcome to read if you're up this way before or after I thrash your bike and drink copious amounts of beer.

But, then again, I am a motorcycle rider, drinker and smoker, all of which are meant to kill me or fuck me. :facepalm:

Edbear

21st January 2012, 20:19

Would you post a link or 2 to the evidence you speak of please. That way we're singing from the same hymn sheet :)

Just Google it mate, I will only draw vindictiveness from the others who have no interest in being anything like reasonable or the slightest bit interested in finding anything out for themselves.

They much prefer to use personal attack as it makes their fragile ego's feel better and them feel superior. They like to think they have the exclusive on fact even when they are in the tiny minority.

Anyone who genuinely wants to know anything will do their own research. These types couldn't care less, that's why they challenge me to post reference so they can get personal and decry it simply on the grounds that I was the one posting it. They dare not do their own study, that would defeat them. All very childish but whatever strokes their fragile ego's I guess... :yes:

scumdog

21st January 2012, 20:36

And no, I'm not stoned at all right now. I'm not addicted to weeds, and I don't smoke the stuff on most days. Yes I know that smoking is a health hazard. So is riding a motorcycle. So is listening to loud music. So is driving a car. So is being a passenger in an aircraft. So is eating high fat food. Breathing is a health hazard as well, plenty of people die from air pollution.

Different people have different ways of relieving stress and having fun. Some people choose to play a piano, others choose to ride dirt bikes. Some people choose to ride a Harley, while others go jogging. It's a matter of personal choice, and there is no reason why the government should make criminals out of those who choose to smoke pot.

Know-all little cunt, ain't ya???:lol::nya::dodge:

ducatilover

21st January 2012, 20:40

So what makes you think that weed fucked them up? It's merely a suspicion you have with no evidence to prove your theory beyond a reasonable doubt.

Seeing as I'm the non-believer, present me an argument that'll change my mind, I'm always willing to listen to a feasible argument, especially one without bias.

mashman

21st January 2012, 20:41

Just Google it mate, I will only draw vindictiveness from the others who have no interest in being anything like reasonable or the slightest bit interested in finding anything out for themselves.

They much prefer to use personal attack as it makes their fragile ego's feel better and them feel superior. They like to think they have the exclusive on fact even when they are in the tiny minority.

Anyone who genuinely wants to know anything will do their own research. These types couldn't care less, that's why they challenge me to post reference so they can get personal and decry it simply on the grounds that I was the one posting it. They dare not do their own study, that would defeat them. All very childish but whatever strokes their fragile ego's I guess... :yes:

Man you're brutal :rofl:... The problem with the internet searching is that there is evidence that supports both sides and unless both sides see the "evidence" that each other is referencing then they will end up discussing something from their own stand point. The names of researchers or Dr's would probably suffice... don't be shy :laugh:

ducatilover

21st January 2012, 20:46

Man you're brutal :rofl:... The problem with the internet searching is that there is evidence that supports both sides and unless both sides see the "evidence" that each other is referencing then they will end up discussing something from their own stand point. The names of researchers or Dr's would probably suffice... don't be shy :laugh:
You've nailed the problem there.
There are people coming from both angles, pro/anti and not many from a nice boring neutral standing.

SMOKEU

21st January 2012, 20:52

Know-all little cunt, ain't ya???:lol::nya::dodge:

In your job I'm sure you'd rather deal with a car load of stoners who will probably be chilled out than a car load of angry drunk people who are looking for a fight. Now tell me how many 1D incidents do you come across when people smoke too much bud and then start beating others up?

Seeing as I'm the non-believer, present me an argument that'll change my mind, I'm always willing to listen to a feasible argument, especially one without bias.

Weed vs alcohol:

Is likely to cause users to become violent after consuming moderate to large quantities? Weed no, alcohol yes

Possible to overdose? Weed no, alcohol yes

Is likely to cause organ failure among heavy users? Weed no, alcohol yes

Is likely to cause users to make poor decisions, such as having unprotected secks with unfamiliar people or get into a car with a stranger? Weed no, alcohol yes

Is likely to cause drivers to drive faster and more dangerously? Weed no, alcohol yes

Is likely to cause users to injure themselves while under the influence? Weed no, alcohol yes

Is physically addictive? Weed no, alcohol yes

Is likely to cause significant, permanent health damage in heavy users? Weed no, alcohol yes

mashman

21st January 2012, 21:07

Is likely to cause users to make poor decisions, such as having unprotected secks with unfamiliar people or get into a car with a stranger? Weed no, alcohol yes

Nahhhhh, definitely got the above wrong :innocent:

scumdog

21st January 2012, 21:17

In your job I'm sure you'd rather deal with a car load of stoners who will probably be chilled out than a car load of angry drunk people who are looking for a fight. Now tell me how many 1D incidents do you come across when people smoke too much bud and then start beating others up?

Weed vs alcohol:

Is likely to cause users to become violent after consuming moderate to large quantities? Weed no, alcohol yes

Possible to overdose? Weed no, alcohol yes

Is likely to cause organ failure among heavy users? Weed no, alcohol yes

Is likely to cause users to make poor decisions, such as having unprotected secks with unfamiliar people or get into a car with a stranger? Weed no, alcohol yes

Is likely to cause drivers to drive faster and more dangerously? Weed no, alcohol yes

Is likely to cause users to injure themselves while under the influence? Weed no, alcohol yes

Is physically addictive? Weed no, alcohol yes

Is likely to cause significant, permanent health damage in heavy users? Weed no, alcohol yes

Selective comparisons.

And been to plenty of 1Ds involving stoners whe stole the other halfs stash/stray shagged - all the usual alcohol related lifes problems etc - and shitload drink Woodstock and smoke before getting into a biffo...lots of them:yes:

Not many stoners I've met DON'T drink too...

BTW Not a rabid fan of alcohol, can take it or leave it.

So ban alcohol too I say...

SMOKEU

21st January 2012, 21:31

And been to plenty of 1Ds involving stoners whe stole the other halfs stash/stray shagged - all the usual alcohol related lifes problems etc - and shitload drink Woodstock and smoke before getting into a biffo...lots of them:yes:

If weed wasn't illegal, then it wouldn't be such a valuable commodity. I'm sure you don't often see people beating up their wife for eating the last piece of cheese from the fridge or eating the last slice of bread. Or maybe you do.

Bikemad

21st January 2012, 21:35

started reading this thread..........amusing for a while...........but hey......in the end get over it............different strokes for different folks........if you want to live my life .........pay my stinkin mortgage or fuck off..........enough said......carry on

ducatilover

21st January 2012, 22:18

Weed vs alcohol: Is not relevant.

If our health was a big interest to the govt. wombles, we wouldn't be allowed alcohol, tobacco, McD's etc.
The fact that alcohol is legal, has nothing to do with why weed should be, that's like Timmy saying "Mummy, Johnny gets a lolly, why not me?" :laugh:

SMOKEU

21st January 2012, 22:31

If our health was a big interest to the govt. wombles, we wouldn't be allowed alcohol, tobacco, McD's etc.
The fact that alcohol is legal, has nothing to do with why weed should be, that's like Timmy saying "Mummy, Johnny gets a lolly, why not me?" :laugh:

I'm just trying to say that most of the anti pot brigade are nothing but hypocrites because most of them drink alcohol.

If our health was in the best interests of the government, then motorbikes will be banned immediately. Just look at how many people fuck themselves up binning bikes. If health was my primary concern I'd be better off smoking pot and playing computer games than to take the bike out for a sober ride.

mashman

21st January 2012, 22:31

The fact that alcohol is legal, has nothing to do with why weed should be, that's like Timmy saying "Mummy, Johnny gets a lolly, why not me?" :laugh:

That's like Timmy's Mum saying "Because the lolly you want contains E472e"... how would you defend alcohol's legal status if it was questioned on health grounds or damage to society? Is this not why weed is illegal?

mashman

21st January 2012, 22:35

If health was my primary concern I'd be better off smoking pot and playing computer games than to take the bike out for a sober ride.

ACCtually ... "Released as part of Safety NZ Week, the statistics show there were 621 deaths in homes last year due to accidents, averaging just under 12 per week.

The deaths are part of the 632,920 injuries in the home in 2009, down from 664,334 in 2008, with many due to falls and trips." (http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/4075830/Twelve-at-home-accidental-deaths-a-week) you stand a better chance on the road :)

ducatilover

21st January 2012, 23:09

I'm just trying to say that most of the anti pot brigade are nothing but hypocrites because most of them drink alcohol.

If our health was in the best interests of the government, then motorbikes will be banned immediately. Just look at how many people fuck themselves up binning bikes. If health was my primary concern I'd be better off smoking pot and playing computer games than to take the bike out for a sober ride.
I myself am not anti, I can post up points on either side.
You're right about bikes.
But, more cars crash every year, let's ban them too. And planes. And Hone Harawira.
If you smoked pot/played computer games, how are you contributing to the economy? Or is that a pastime thing?
And, will you get fat from eating and not exercising?

That's like Timmy's Mum saying "Because the lolly you want contains E472e"... how would you defend alcohol's legal status if it was questioned on health grounds or damage to society? Is this not why weed is illegal?

I'm not going to defend alcohol, the taxation is the only reason why it's legal IMHO.
It's all good to have in moderation, but I've fucked some fat bitches on alcohol, it's dangerous.
A wee bit of red wine is good for you though, that's about it isn't it?

SMOKEU

21st January 2012, 23:37

mashman

21st January 2012, 23:40

I'm not going to defend alcohol, the taxation is the only reason why it's legal IMHO.
It's all good to have in moderation, but I've fucked some fat bitches on alcohol, it's dangerous.
A wee bit of red wine is good for you though, that's about it isn't it?

Are you a police person :shifty:.
:rofl:... nuffink wrong with that :innocent:
Fooked if I know to be honest... it's all probably good in some way or other, in moderation that is.

Shame we aren't educated enough to take the decision to ruin our health a little more seriously.

SMOKEU

21st January 2012, 23:47

I myself am not anti, I can post up points on either side.
You're right about bikes.
But, more cars crash every year, let's ban them too. And planes. And Hone Harawira.
If you smoked pot/played computer games, how are you contributing to the economy? Or is that a pastime thing?
And, will you get fat from eating and not exercising?

I'm not going to defend alcohol, the taxation is the only reason why it's legal IMHO.
It's all good to have in moderation, but I've fucked some fat bitches on alcohol, it's dangerous.
A wee bit of red wine is good for you though, that's about it isn't it?

More cars crash than bikes every year in NZ because there are more cars on the roads than bikes. Also, the average distance travelled by car is much higher in NZ than for bikes. If I'm hooning around on my bike, then I'm not necessarily contributing to the economy. The petrol cost I pay for the bike, vehicle licensing, tyres, oil etc all does contribute to the economy. But what if I fuck myself up and cost the health system thousands of $ to patch me up? Then all those ACC levys I've been paying won't even cover half the hospital costs if I have a decent crash.
If I sit at home all day eating and not exercising then I will never become fat.

There's no reason that I can think of why weed can't be taxed as well.

SMOKEU

21st January 2012, 23:49

I'm not going to defend alcohol, the taxation is the only reason why it's legal IMHO.
It's all good to have in moderation, but I've fucked some fat bitches on alcohol, it's dangerous.
A wee bit of red wine is good for you though, that's about it isn't it?

Oh, and about the tax system, you're right that alcohol does give the government a lot of tax revenue. But what about all the harm it causes? All the police time wasted by drunks fighting, all the road crashes due to drunk drivers, all the hospital costs for people who get beaten up. What about the social cost of alcohol abuse? The social cost of alcohol harm is immeasurable.

ducatilover

22nd January 2012, 00:09

Well there's no reason why we should ride motorbikes then. Cars are much safer, so why do we put ourselves at unnecessary risk? You've got 4 wheel stability and a nice metal cage to protect you. It's a hell of a lot safer than riding a bike, so if you want to get from A to B then you shouldn't be doing it on a motorbike. After all, a car does pretty much the same job as a bike in terms of transport. My chain could snap at 100kmh, locking up the back wheel. Or a drunk driver could drive on the wrong side of the road and crash into me. I could hit a patch of gravel mid corner and bin it. I could suffer a tyre blowout at high speed. BUT, I know the risks, and I'm prepared to accept it.

I think we should all give up motorcycling immediately because it poses an unnecessary risk to ourselves.

Oh, wait, we do it for something called "fun". For the same reason that pot smokers toke up. If we are allowed to operate these highly dangerous machines that kill thousands of bikers world wide each year, then why can't an adult legally choose to smoke a bit of bud? No one has ever died from it.
Yup, let's all give it up :shifty: I'll dispose of that now unused Gixxer for you mate.
More people are dying in cars, ergo you're more likely to die in a car. :shifty:

Are you a police person :shifty:.
:rofl:... nuffink wrong with that :innocent:
Fooked if I know to be honest... it's all probably good in some way or other, in moderation that is.

Shame we aren't educated enough to take the decision to ruin our health a little more seriously.
What the fuck is education? I thought KB is and was all there is?

More cars crash than bikes every year in NZ because there are more cars on the roads than bikes. Also, the average distance travelled by car is much higher in NZ than for bikes. If I'm hooning around on my bike, then I'm not necessarily contributing to the economy. The petrol cost I pay for the bike, vehicle licensing, tyres, oil etc all does contribute to the economy. But what if I fuck myself up and cost the health system thousands of $ to patch me up? Then all those ACC levys I've been paying won't even cover half the hospital costs if I have a decent crash.
If I sit at home all day eating and not exercising then I will never become fat.

There's no reason that I can think of why weed can't be taxed as well.
More cars crash because more people crash them, because car drivers are more likely to crash.
I can use twisted logic like 99% of pro (or anti) pot arguments. :bleh:

Why won't you become fat? You should sell your secret.

Oh, and about the tax system, you're right that alcohol does give the government a lot of tax revenue. But what about all the harm it causes? All the police time wasted by drunks fighting, all the road crashes due to drunk drivers, all the hospital costs for people who get beaten up. What about the social cost of alcohol abuse? The social cost of alcohol harm is immeasurable.
Alcohol and tobacco are brilliant money makers, governments really aren't there to help the sheeple are they? Come on...do they really care about the health and well being of anyone? If so, why didn't I get any govt. support when my pelvis, ribs, sternum etc were broken in '05? :facepalm:
Had to get back to work, because I walked in to WINZ to get help

Jeez, I bet if I smoked pot through that I wouldn't have ulcers from the medically PC drugs lol

haydes55

22nd January 2012, 01:02

A free government is one in which restricts persons actions, only to prevent harm or infringement of rights, unto other persons. The individual has the right to do what they so choose, free of prosecution if their actions cause no harm to others or restrict another persons rights. The individual has the right to harm themselves (smoking, drinking, eating fatty foods and piercings etc.), as long as said harm will not create an impact upon another persons life.

The occasional marijuana over user may end up permanently, mentally impaired to a varied degree. However, how is this different from most products available today which all have occasional side effects and disabilities; Anti-depressants, fatty foods, alcohol and miscellaneous carcinogens (petrol, cleaning products etc.) to name a few. Could even go as far as to say stairs, trampolines, push bikes, motorbikes, plastic shopping bags, the list goes on. Alot of products will cause disabilities in a small number of users, these products are known to have dangers and the people using said products does so knowingly and has freedom of choice as to use them or not.

What I'm trying to say is for the majority, marijuana isn't harmful. The few who are harmed by it have been harmed after they knew the risks, yet they made the choice to use marijuana, therefore they live with the consequences of their actions. Alcohol has a tax to cover the social costs of drinking, marijuana could have a tax to cover the care of the few who are impaired as a result.

Another point I haven't seen yet is currently 70,000 people every day are using marijuana. The marijuana they consume may be laced with harder drugs, cut with other chemicals or even tainted with harmful products. Making marijuana legal would provide the government the ability to regulate quality and purity of it. Being legal would also promote outdoor growing and less hydroponics which create stronger dosages of THC. Cleaner, weaker marijuana would cut down the number of people who would experience permanent side effects.

mashman

22nd January 2012, 05:29

More people are dying in cars, ergo you're more likely to die in a car. :shifty:
I can use twisted logic like 99% of pro (or anti) pot arguments. :bleh:

More cars crash because more people crash them, because car drivers are more likely to crash.

very very true indeed... finally some facts :)

What the fuck is education? I thought KB is and was all there is?

WTF was I thinking :facepalm: my apologies

SMOKEU

22nd January 2012, 09:35

More cars crash because more people crash them, because car drivers are more likely to crash.
I can use twisted logic like 99% of pro (or anti) pot arguments. :bleh:

Why won't you become fat? You should sell your secret.

I'd still like to see why you think motorcycles are safer than cars. Most people who have been riding for a long time have fucked themselves up at least once on a bike. It's a lot easier to crash a bike than it is to crash a car, and the end result is usually much worse for the motorcyclist than the cager. Who do you think is going to come out better off if you have a head on collision with a modern, 5 star NCAP rated car? Or an intersection T bone situation?

If every motorcyclist sat at home smoking pot and playing Battlefield 3 on a weekend then we wouldn't have any of this carnage involving motorcycles. We wouldn't have any biker down threads. If we're that concerned about our health that weed is illegal, then the next logical step is to ban motorcycling, scrap our bikes, then we can all buy some nice safe cars where we are surrounded by airbags.

The whole "weed is bad but alcohol is ok" is like telling a learner rider that a CBR250 is a very dangerous bike because it doesn't have much power, but a CBR1000RR is a perfect learner bike. The government gets more tax from sales of the CBR1000RR as well.

Oh, and about being fat, I can eat as much as I want and I never put on weight. I'm still skinny as fuck, always have been.

Edbear

22nd January 2012, 10:09

I'd still like to see why you think motorcycles are safer than cars. Most people who have been riding for a long time have fucked themselves up at least once on a bike. It's a lot easier to crash a bike than it is to crash a car, and the end result is usually much worse for the motorcyclist than the cager. Who do you think is going to come out better off if you have a head on collision with a modern, 5 star NCAP rated car? Or an intersection T bone situation?

If every motorcyclist sat at home smoking pot and playing Battlefield 3 on a weekend then we wouldn't have any of this carnage involving motorcycles. We wouldn't have any biker down threads. If we're that concerned about our health that weed is illegal, then the next logical step is to ban motorcycling, scrap our bikes, then we can all buy some nice safe cars where we are surrounded by airbags.

The whole "weed is bad but alcohol is ok" is like telling a learner rider that a CBR250 is a very dangerous bike because it doesn't have much power, but a CBR1000RR is a perfect learner bike. The government gets more tax from sales of the CBR1000RR as well.

Oh, and about being fat, I can eat as much as I want and I never put on weight. I'm still skinny as fuck, always have been.

All of us middle-aged fatso's were the same at one time, don't worry, it will get you in the end...:yes:

Unless cancer gets you first... :msn-wink:

DMNTD

22nd January 2012, 10:26

All of us middle-aged fatso's were the same at one time, don't worry, it will get you in the end...:yes:

Unless cancer gets you first... :msn-wink:

http://www.naturalnews.com/033757_cannabis_oil_cancer_cure.html ...don't worry about it, Cannabis will help out there too

scissorhands

22nd January 2012, 10:42

Research indicates that CBD can relieve convulsions, reduce inflammation, lower anxiety and suppress nausea, while also inhibiting cancer development. In addition, CBD has exhibited neuroprotective properties, relieving symptoms of dystonia and proving just as effective as regular antipsychotics in the treatment of schizophrenia

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/033757_cannabis_oil_cancer_cure.html#ixzz1k8RvfUgV

There goes Ducs argument re some peeps going nuts on cannabis... he never fronted with anything but an opinion. Thats because proving that cannabis encourages mental illness is totally unfounded in scientific literature

FAIL

DMNTD

22nd January 2012, 10:44

Research indicates that CBD can relieve convulsions, reduce inflammation, lower anxiety and suppress nausea, while also inhibiting cancer development. In addition, CBD has exhibited neuroprotective properties, relieving symptoms of dystonia and proving just as effective as regular antipsychotics in the treatment of schizophrenia

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/033757_cannabis_oil_cancer_cure.html#ixzz1k8RvfUgV

There goes Ducs argument re some peeps going nuts on cannabis...

FAIL

Problem is is that 'they' (certain posters) are viewing the medical user or casual user as a stoner so they will CHOOSE not to see the above facts.

haydes55

22nd January 2012, 10:45

...don't worry about it, Cannabis will help out there too

:laugh: actually heard about an american doctor doing studies on THC in Iran or something because that was the easiest place to get a research permit, administers THC in marijuana oil so he can control the dosage carefully and accurately. So I wouldn't be surprised if that was true.

scissorhands

22nd January 2012, 10:51

:laugh: actually heard about an american doctor doing studies on THC in Iran or something because that was the easiest place to get a research permit, administers THC in marijuana oil so he can control the dosage carefully and accurately. So I wouldn't be surprised if that was true.

After the DEA shut down an early study on mice in the US, Madrid in the late 90's got the research going again, and many more countries have conducted scientific research since

There is a large body of literature now and many doctors are in agreement. Historically it had wide application when it was prescibed, but most was sold for childbirth, womens problems and nervous disorders

Edbear

22nd January 2012, 10:54

:laugh: actually heard about an american doctor doing studies on THC in Iran or something because that was the easiest place to get a research permit, administers THC in marijuana oil so he can control the dosage carefully and accurately. So I wouldn't be surprised if that was true.

But, you must understand, this is very different from smoking it to get high and thinking it is healthy for you or at least not harmful.

This is what users fail to see in their spurious arguments seeking to justify their recreational use of cannabis.

mashman

22nd January 2012, 11:05

Thats because proving that cannabis encourages mental illness is totally unfounded in scientific literature

FAIL

What do you mean by encourage? There are studies that show too much THC at an early (teen equivalent) developmental stage has higher instances of mental instability... the results are not the same for fully developed rats. So I wouldn't say it's totally unfounded, but as with anything else perhaps the "damage" was already there and was going to be there come adulthood anyway. Without a time machine we'll honestly never know.

scissorhands

22nd January 2012, 11:11

People have been using it recreationally for millennia

The culture like the Sumatran Batak and Minangkabo have cannabis consumption rates almost the same as NZ, probably lower. Its widely available, but mirrors NZ usage demographics of a self medicating population

The Thais had low cannabis rates too, with wide availability and self medicating peeps.

Its safe, its a medicine. But only a few of the population seek or need it

DMNTD

22nd January 2012, 11:12

But, you must understand, this is very different from smoking it to get high and thinking it is healthy for you or at least not harmful.

This is what users fail to see in their spurious arguments seeking to justify their recreational use of cannabis.

...and what you're choosing not to understand here is that no one is stating that smoking anything is good for you.
However, sometimes the 'positives of taking (in most ways) cannabis (in any of its forms) far out weighs its negatives even if it is being smoked.
There is no way in the world you could understand that view point as you have never had the experience.
I have and can assure you that the so called negatives of having the odd puff are FAR better than the aggressive legal drugs that I have been prescribed by the medical fraternity.

Nothing is as black and white as you appear to perceive it to be...loads of grey areas

haydes55

22nd January 2012, 11:19

But, you must understand, this is very different from smoking it to get high and thinking it is healthy for you or at least not harmful.

This is what users fail to see in their spurious arguments seeking to justify their recreational use of cannabis.

So no objection to having legal THC rich oil sold in pharmacies? By the sounds of your arguments you wouldn't be opposed to medicinal uses, only opposed to recreational use? (Correct me if I'm jumping to conclusions).

The reason why I ask is alot of people who you think are using it recreationally are using it as a release, a break from stress, a relaxer at the end of a hard day. Many people use it as a natural remedy to keeping their sanity. the majority of daily users aren't smoking marijuana daily just because they like getting baked off their faces, if they smoke it daily it's usually for a reason. Whether it is for pain relief, to relax them or for any other reason.

I know of older people who smoke it daily as pain relief for sore backs/joints etc. because doctors wont prescribe them with an adequate pain medication, A lot of the stronger pain medications also have side effects that are worse than marijuana. I had a crash at speedway and strained the ligaments in my shoulder http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=-iliaoqa4aI I was given tremadol. Took a tablet with a V (stupid idea in retrospect but it's just something I didn't think about), Spent the night from 10pm til 2am out of my mind high and couldn't sleep. I have never been that stoned before in my life. Although yes the pain did go away, I would of been better off with some medicinal THC oil, would of been put to sleep and pain free in no time.

scissorhands

22nd January 2012, 11:22

What do you mean by encourage? There are studies that show too much THC at an early (teen equivalent) developmental stage has higher instances of mental instability... the results are not the same for fully developed rats. So I wouldn't say it's totally unfounded, but as with anything else perhaps the "damage" was already there and was going to be there come adulthood anyway. Without a time machine we'll honestly never know.

yes yes I forget the younguns, definitely no getting high before 18 or 20 yrs old, nothing wrong with a medicinal dose for an ailment though!

In my experience around stoners, and its quite extensive, the blobbing out, tobacco and alcohol and other drugs...... family and relationship skills lacking producing enormous stress, undiagnosed ADHD and autism, cause more harm than weed.

Generally those heading for a train wreck.... reach out to escape with cannabis because of its amazing medicinal dissociative effects, but it often catches up anyways.

No scientific literature supports substantial mental issues in adults from cannabis

ducatilover

22nd January 2012, 12:27

very very true indeed... finally some facts :)

WTF was I thinking :facepalm: my apologies
:bleh:

I'd still like to see why you think motorcycles are safer than cars. Most people who have been riding for a long time have fucked themselves up at least once on a bike. It's a lot easier to crash a bike than it is to crash a car, and the end result is usually much worse for the motorcyclist than the cager. Who do you think is going to come out better off if you have a head on collision with a modern, 5 star NCAP rated car? Or an intersection T bone situation?

If every motorcyclist sat at home smoking pot and playing Battlefield 3 on a weekend then we wouldn't have any of this carnage involving motorcycles. We wouldn't have any biker down threads. If we're that concerned about our health that weed is illegal, then the next logical step is to ban motorcycling, scrap our bikes, then we can all buy some nice safe cars where we are surrounded by airbags.

The whole "weed is bad but alcohol is ok" is like telling a learner rider that a CBR250 is a very dangerous bike because it doesn't have much power, but a CBR1000RR is a perfect learner bike. The government gets more tax from sales of the CBR1000RR as well.

Oh, and about being fat, I can eat as much as I want and I never put on weight. I'm still skinny as fuck, always have been.
It was an example of taking something out of context, as you just have.
I have yet to hear an argument for marijuana that can admit there may be side effects.

Have a stroll through here, look for peer reviewed articles too, they're not biased and if you really are interested at all in pros vs cons, you'll research it and realise that there are cons, not all pros.
http://scholar.google.co.nz/scholar?q=implications+of+THC+on+the+mind&hl=en&btnG=Search&as_sdt=1%2C5&as_sdtp=on

mashman

22nd January 2012, 12:29

yes yes I forget the younguns, definitely no getting high before 18 or 20 yrs old, nothing wrong with a medicinal dose for an ailment though!

In my experience around stoners, and its quite extensive, the blobbing out, tobacco and alcohol and other drugs...... family and relationship skills lacking producing enormous stress, undiagnosed ADHD and autism, cause more harm than weed.

Generally those heading for a train wreck.... reach out to escape with cannabis because of its amazing medicinal dissociative effects, but it often catches up anyways.

No scientific literature supports substantial mental issues in adults from cannabis

I can imagine there are all sorts of uses for cannabis... such a shame that it was shelved for sooooo many years because it was bad, just plain old bad. I guess there's no money in something that you can make yourself... let's have some propaganda to fool the rest of the world into believing that it's for the good of society :facepalm:.