Free the weed, dope, cannabis, hooch, Fri 4 Feb, outside Auckland District Courts

[Madness]

At an hour and three-quarters long I'll have to defer until I have sufficient "supplies" :shifty:

[mashman]

Money driven, politically backed idiocy, pure and simple. Don't believe me, then watch the fuckin video... feck that pushes my buttons!!!!

[haydes55]

Watch this documentary, its very informative and clears up a lot of 'myths' that have been associated to weed use.


Very good indeed! Would of liked to of seen more people who backed the prohibition (in positions of power or information, like a scientist) having their say on the video aswell. Although I agree with decriminalisation, what really baffles me is how people see Marijuana as negative?

Prohibition was lifted before the Vietnam war, the people smoking weed saw injustices in the war and protested, govt. prohibits marijuana to have a reason to arrest protesters and continue the war.

The only study to show brain damage caused by marijuana was conducted over 50 years ago, where they administered such large amounts of smoke, the animals were suffocating to death from lack of oxygen.

A recent study in Wollongong is interesting to read. I'll quote a few things to make you think
The study, conducted by researchers at the University of Wollongong, is the first to show that long-term cannabis use can adversely affect all users, not just those in the high-risk categories such as the young, or those susceptible to mental illness, as previously thought.
Funny that a scientific study will admit in 2008 to being the 1st to prove any adverse affect as a result of smoking marijuana.


This loss of memory could be likened to the damage suffered by patients with mild traumatic brain injury”, Dr Solowij said
Prolonged use of marijuana causes memory loss equivalent to memory loss attained by anyone who has been knocked out at some stage in their life :facepalm: News flash! Marijuana smoking for many years is as harmful as accidentally being knocked out once in your life! Take into account that
structural magnetic resonance imaging on 15 men (average age 39 years) who smoked more than five joints daily for over 10 years When they say heavy users they mean heavy users. This slight damage to memory (which we all lose regardless of smoking weed or not) is caused by smoking so much weed you would need to be growing your own plants. They are only studying people who are smoking $700 worth of weed every week!


“Although modest use may not lead to significant neurotoxic effects, these results suggest that heavy daily use might indeed be toxic to human brain tissue,” Dr Yücel said. The Dr. who did the study even admits to not finding any evidence of brain deterioration in modest smokers. Which is propaganda code for, "we did the same test on people who use marijuana as much as the average pot smoker and found no negative effects".

Article found here (http://www.sciencealert.com.au/news/20080506-17437-2.html)

[ducatilover]

Funny that a scientific study will admit in 2008 to being the 1st to prove any adverse affect as a result of smoking marijuana.




:facepalm: You have overlooked the part in red.
So your study has admitted to the high risk groups and the dangers, as I have previously pointed out. Typically, this will probably be ignored by all the pro pot smokers.
Are neither sides capable of admitting it can be harmful? Not will or won't be. Good morning brick wall.

"The study, conducted by researchers at the University of Wollongong, is the first to show that long-term cannabis use can adversely affect all users, not just those in the high-risk categories such as the young, or those susceptible to mental illness, as previously thought."

[scissorhands]

Are neither sides capable of admitting it can be harmful? Not will or won't be. Good morning brick wall.

"The study, conducted by researchers at the University of Wollongong, is the first to show that long-term cannabis use can adversely affect all users, not just those in the high-risk categories such as the young, or those susceptible to mental illness, as previously thought."




Okay okay I'll admit it. Cannabis smoking is harmful, as is drinking black tea and sticky buns harmful. Harm is relative, like bike accident carnage.

Many things are not mentioned, my main concern is the loss of potential. But many never fulfil their potential anyway even without weed to make them lazy.

[mashman]

"“Although modest use may not lead to significant neurotoxic effects, these results suggest that heavy daily use might indeed be toxic to human brain tissue,” Dr Yücel said."

Given that the title of the article is "Marijuana can cause brain damage", I would have thought that someone so secure in their conviction would not be using the word "might". I could have told the world this without the need for millions to have been poured into research. There are so many "cans" and "mights" in there that it is hardly conclusive evidence. Did they also measure the intake of alcohol? The foods eaten? The medicines taken? The living conditions of the people, asking if they had had a mild brain trauma in the 10 years they had been walking around? etc... there are so many other things that could have caused the "death" of the brain tissue they're talking about, that it's laughable that anyone would take any of the research seriously.

Now, go fuck yourself if you don't believe that I'm being impartial. The questions listed above are all valid questions and variables to be considered where you are looking for a culprit. If you do not believe that to be the case, then you are not viewing the "evidence" critically, more you are refusing to do so because you have already made your mind up. It's like reading a court transcription for a murder trial where you know the guy is going to get off because there are too many important questions unanswered. And the call it science. PAH! Hysteria more like

The brain slows down or at least has more information to process from experience as we get older... it's a natural process. People who have never taken marijuana in their lives also suffer from exactly the same problems.

[ducatilover]

Okay okay I'll admit it. Cannabis smoking is harmful, as is drinking black tea and sticky buns harmful. Harm is relative, like bike accident carnage.

Many things are not mentioned, my main concern is the loss of potential. But many never fulfil their potential anyway even without weed to make them lazy.
Thank you, 'bout time someone said it.
You're right, the harm is relative.
I'm fucked then, I drink black tea.



The brain slows down or at least has more information to process from experience as we get older... it's a natural process. People who have never taken marijuana in their lives also suffer from exactly the same problems.
I'm completely bonkers and I don't smoke it :laugh:

[mashman]

I'm completely bonkers and I don't smoke it :laugh:

Yeah, but you're special :innocent:

[ducatilover]

Yeah, but you're special :innocent:
Obviously, I have a thing for bikes with two cylinders, yet keep buying stupid faggoty 4 cylinder ones. :facepalm:

[haydes55]

not just those in the high-risk categories such as the young, or those susceptible to mental illness, as previously thought

Whilst marijuana is illegal high risk categories such as youths and mentally ill people have as much access to marijuana as the next person. So if they can prove harm to these categories only why not legalise it and restrict it's sale to youth, intoxicated/stoned people and mentally ill. Right now, being illegal, a drug dealer wants cash from anyone, child, mentally ill or not. Legalise it and these people of high risk will find it harder to get.

[mashman]

Obviously, I have a thing for bikes with two cylinders, yet keep buying stupid faggoty 4 cylinder ones. :facepalm:

Don't be so hard on yourself, at least you throw them away on occasion.

[ducatilover]

Don't be so hard on yourself, at least you throw them away on occasion.
I'm wheelie good at it :shifty:

[SMOKEU]

Whilst marijuana is illegal high risk categories such as youths and mentally ill people have as much access to marijuana as the next person. So if they can prove harm to these categories only why not legalise it and restrict it's sale to youth, intoxicated/stoned people and mentally ill. Right now, being illegal, a drug dealer wants cash from anyone, child, mentally ill or not. Legalise it and these people of high risk will find it harder to get.

+1 to that. When I was young it was easier to get hold of weeds than alcohol.

[scumdog]

+1 to that. When I was young it was easier to get hold of weeds than alcohol.

No age-limit on grass eh???<_<

[SMOKEU]

No age-limit on grass eh???<_<

The tinnie houses don't check for ID. Or so I've been told.

[Indiana_Jones]

Does anyone else find it funny that on one side people are pushing to decriminalize weed, but on the other some people want to ban cigarettes? :facepalm:

-Indy

[blue rider]

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/386382_265674416828060_239069392821896_710308_2709 81243_n.jpg

[SMOKEU]

Does anyone else find it funny that on one side people are pushing to decriminalize weed, but on the other some people want to ban cigarettes? :facepalm:

-Indy

Not at all. Tobacco is proven to kill most long term users. It costs the health care system millions of $ to treat people from all the damage tobacco smoke causes. Pot has never been proven to kill people.

In fact you're more likely to die from food poisoning than you are from toking up.

[Indiana_Jones]

I find it very hard to believe it'd cause zero deaths, maybe not from the smoke etc, but from doing stupid shit when stoned :lol:

Any how that wasn't my point, I meant people always say "why bother banning pot, people will just grow it, look at the booze prohibition in the states etc"....well the exact same thing would happen with fags...

Edit: I should point it I'm on the fence on this one, but slightly leaning more so to letting the pot smokers have their way. At least it'll cut some money from the gangs if done right.

-Indy

[haydes55]

Does anyone else find it funny that on one side people are pushing to decriminalize weed, but on the other some people want to ban cigarettes? :facepalm:

-Indy

I have actually laughed about that. Thing is though, most smokers don't want to smoke any more (none of my friends nor myself who smoke only marijuana have a smokers cough). In my experience most smokers I have met have said they want to quit. Tobacco has been proven to cause cancers, clog arteries and poison people. The major concern with tobacco is it is smoked publicly alot so people who are non-smokers are getting second hand smoke. Whereas marijuana is usually smoked in a room/car sealed with only other weed smokers present. There is no passing on of the smoke. Except at several concerts I have been at (but that's pretty douche-y).

[haydes55]

Not at all. Tobacco is proven to kill most long term users. It costs the health care system millions of $ to treat people from all the damage tobacco smoke causes. Pot has never been proven to kill people.

In fact you're more likely to die from food poisoning than you are from toking up.

Smokers pay taxes to cover the social cost of their smoking. Any potential marijuana related health concern will be paid for by every tax payer.

[Indiana_Jones]

I have actually laughed about that. Thing is though, most smokers don't want to smoke any more (none of my friends nor myself who smoke only marijuana have a smokers cough). In my experience most smokers I have met have said they want to quit. Tobacco has been proven to cause cancers, clog arteries and poison people. The major concern with tobacco is it is smoked publicly alot so people who are non-smokers are getting second hand smoke. Whereas marijuana is usually smoked in a room/car sealed with only other weed smokers present. There is no passing on of the smoke. Except at several concerts I have been at (but that's pretty douche-y).

As above, I'm not talking about the 'healthiness' of these two pass times. Just trying to enforce it.

-Indy

[Usarka]

I find it very hard to believe it'd cause zero deaths, maybe not from the smoke etc, but from doing stupid shit when stoned :lol:


Man forget doing anything gnarly I like can't be even bothered getting off the couch unless there's like some more mint choc chip ice cream in the freezer dude.

[scissorhands]

At least it'll cut some money from the gangs if done right.

-Indy

Eh? CALIFORNIA is ideal for NZ otherwise the gangs will probably sink it. Prices throughout California, Amsterdam and Australia, have remained the same as before.

CANADA specifically British Columbia where every 1/100 houses is a grow op, the prices are low

Spain and Uruguay, et el, are different countries and not worth considering. Papua new guinea is probably cheaper than spuds

Considering all the players, I cant see money going out of it, though that would be good for end consumers pockets. But hey, someone else will take their cash eh?

At least gangs spend the money in NZ:sweatdrop

[Usarka]

My philospohy is, and always will be - do what the fuck you like as long as it doesn't hurt someone else.

There is zero studies showing that smoking pot hurts anyone else without other factors being at play. If you argue it's a health cost to the taxpayer then it's probably at most the same level as motorcycle injuries, so by that logic you should stop being a hypocrite and sell the bike. In fact you are way more likely to kill or hurt someone else by riding a bike than by smoking a spliff.

[Indiana_Jones]

I agree, you should be able to do what you like as long as it's not shitting on other people.

Funny though, the Greens would be happy for pot to be legal, but would love to ban firearms.

-Indy

[SMOKEU]

My philospohy is, and always will be - do what the fuck you like as long as it doesn't hurt someone else.

There is zero studies showing that smoking pot hurts anyone else without other factors being at play. If you argue it's a health cost to the taxpayer then it's probably at most the same level as motorcycle injuries, so by that logic you should stop being a hypocrite and sell the bike. In fact you are way more likely to kill or hurt someone else by riding a bike than by smoking a spliff.

I wish this country had MPs like you. Then we would finally have laws that make sense instead of making criminals out of ordinary people.

[Madness]

Eh?... Considering all the players, I cant see money going out of it, though that would be good for end consumers pockets. But hey, someone else will take their cash eh?

I dunno.

Switched On Gardener has shown that their business model can sustain itself in a "Tomato Only" marketplace. I think you'll find that decriminalisation in N.Z would herald a massive increase in DIY indoor growing. I'm sure there are a huge number of otherwise law-abiding, professional 30 & 40-something Kiwi pot smokers that would grow their own if it not for fear of a cultivation of drugs conviction.

Remove the market described above & you're left with kids buying $20 tinnies. By that time Tobacco will be illegal, or $30 a pack of 20's and the gangs will be peddling Milds & Menthols.

[scissorhands]

No age-limit on grass eh???<_<

The Daktory has always been R18, some places even breathalyse punters

For awhile it was zero reading only! now same as driving

[scumdog]

I wish this country had MPs like you. Then we would finally have laws that make sense instead of making criminals out of ordinary people.
Me too - I'd be able to speed all over the place swerving over the yellow lines while stoned and firing my AK47 all over the place as I deliver my now-legal drugs...:woohoo:

[Madness]

Me too - I'd be able to speed all over the place swerving over the yellow lines while stoned and firing my AK47 all over the place as I deliver my now-legal drugs...:woohoo:

Just remember to keep yer clothes on eh? :yes:

[scissorhands]

I dunno.

Switched On Gardener has shown that their business model can sustain itself in a "Tomato Only" marketplace. I think you'll find that decriminalisation in N.Z would herald a massive increase in DIY indoor growing. I'm sure there are a huge number of otherwise law-abiding, professional 30 & 40-something Kiwi pot smokers that would grow their own if it not for fear of a cultivation of drugs conviction.

Remove the market described above & you're left with kids buying $20 tinnies. By that time Tobacco will be illegal, or $30 a pack of 20's and the gangs will be peddling Milds & Menthols.

Currently the number of plants before your looking at a cultivation for sale charge is around 5. However high yield large outdoor plants may be only 1 or 2.

I dunno about heaps of DIY grow ops. Anyone can brew or buy a still, but only a few actually do, most just pay the tax and buy it. And alcohol is more popular than weed and may always be more popular....

Probably the profit on home liquor sales could be the same as current cannabis profits.

I imagine some really big gangs with connections may get upset if you start selling grog

[mashman]

I have actually laughed about that. Thing is though, most smokers don't want to smoke any more (none of my friends nor myself who smoke only marijuana have a smokers cough). In my experience most smokers I have met have said they want to quit. Tobacco has been proven to cause cancers, clog arteries and poison people. The major concern with tobacco is it is smoked publicly alot so people who are non-smokers are getting second hand smoke. Whereas marijuana is usually smoked in a room/car sealed with only other weed smokers present. There is no passing on of the smoke. Except at several concerts I have been at (but that's pretty douche-y).

Second hand smoke eh. How about all of the chemicals that are pumped into the atmosphere. There are links between lung cancer and living near a bus station and the filling of fuel tanks at a petrol station, let alone the fact that we only removed lead from petrol 30ish years ago and each and every day we breath car/bus/truck fumes that probably have an affect on our lungs. Second hand smoke is bloody weak at best.


Me too - I'd be able to speed all over the place swerving over the yellow lines while stoned and firing my AK47 all over the place as I deliver my now-legal drugs...:woohoo:

would you be allowed to have the lights on too? I'm considering a career change :eek:

[Usarka]

Me too - I'd be able to speed all over the place swerving over the yellow lines while stoned and firing my AK47 all over the place as I deliver my now-legal drugs...:woohoo:


would you be allowed to have the lights on too? I'm considering a career change :eek:

Especially if there's speed involved! :blip:

[SMOKEU]

let alone the fact that we only removed lead from petrol 30ish years ago

Even unleaded petrol still has lead in it.

[scissorhands]

Tobacco is grown with some shit in it

Its so hard to get organically fertilized high grade outdoor buds grown from an indoor mother. The sun and the earth and modern breeding

Its ironic they're smoking hydroponic

[mashman]

Especially if there's speed involved! :blip:

We'll have the disco lights too... just need some biscuits.


Even unleaded petrol still has lead in it.

I did not know that... t'would seem a little misleading (pun not really intended) to call it unleaded.

[ducatilover]

Not at all. Tobacco is proven to kill most long term users..
There's a correlation between tobacco smokers and lung cancer, to prove would involve samples of identical people, one sample made to smoke for X amount of years, the other not to, in controlled environments, this is unethical. If you read any properly written study it will never say "proven to kill", this is how it's still legal.


*disclaimer: I do not claim to believe tobacco isn't harmful, I am arguing semantics. :innocent:

[haydes55]

If you read any properly written study it will never say "proven to kill", this is how it's still legal.



Translate that to marijuana which has never been proven to harm let alone kill yet it's illegal?

[SMOKEU]

There's a correlation between tobacco smokers and lung cancer, to prove would involve samples of identical people, one sample made to smoke for X amount of years, the other not to, in controlled environments, this is unethical. If you read any properly written study it will never say "proven to kill", this is how it's still legal.


*disclaimer: I do not claim to believe tobacco isn't harmful, I am arguing semantics. :innocent:

Yup, you're right. But there is a lot of documented evidence to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that that tobacco does significantly reduce the life span of long term users, and that it causes a lot of harm. It has been proven to constrict blood vessels, and therefore reduce the amount of blood flow around the body. This last point is not something that is mere speculation, it is an undeniable fact.

However, there is no evidence to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that cannabis is particularly harmful.

[ducatilover]

Translate that to marijuana which has never been proven to harm let alone kill yet it's illegal?
It's been linked to triggering schizophrenia, memory loss and reduced cognitive function. Hasn't been a huge amount of people affected like this, but I imagine this is why it's still illegal. I have papers buried somewhere from a study I did on it.


Yup, you're right. But there is a lot of documented evidence to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that that tobacco does significantly reduce the life span of long term users, and that it causes a lot of harm. It has been proven to constrict blood vessels, and therefore reduce the amount of blood flow around the body. This last point is not something that is mere speculation, it is an undeniable fact.

However, there is no evidence to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that cannabis is particularly harmful.
No doubt about that. It's these stupid semantics that keep it legal though (and the lovely tax they make from it here)
I have not yet heard a good argument for pro-pot though.

[scissorhands]

Yup, you're right. But there is a lot of documented evidence to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that that tobacco does significantly reduce the life span of long term users, and that it causes a lot of harm. It has been proven to constrict blood vessels, and therefore reduce the amount of blood flow around the body. This last point is not something that is mere speculation, it is an undeniable fact.

However, there is no evidence to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that cannabis is particularly harmful.

Whereas cannabis increases blood flow, dilating blood vessels, thereby allowing more oxygen (which is carried by the extra blood) to enter cells. This is the secret to cannabis's benefits.... as to the anti cancer claims, more oxygen enters cells and prevents cancer cells forming. Cancer thrives in a de oxygenated environment.

The burnt plant material, cellulose, becomes CO3 and CO2 and a hundred other bad things.

But in very small quantities that are negligible, and offset by the beneficial effect of more oxygen from increased circulation.

he he good boners

[scissorhands]

I have not yet heard a good argument for pro-pot though.

I think i just gave you a good arguement one a minute ago

There are dozens more I'm afraid

Sure some nutters will not heal their minds getting high all the time, and some nutters will medicate well on the stuff, so hey, keep it away from the wrong people!

[ducatilover]

Whereas cannabis increases blood flow, dilating blood vessels, thereby allowing more oxygen (which is carried by the extra blood) to enter cells. This is the secret to cannabis's benefits.... as to the anti cancer claims, more oxygen enter cells and prevents cells forming. Cancer thrives in a de oxygenated environment. The burnt plant material, cellulose, becomes CO3 and CO2 and a hundred other bad things.

But in very small quantities that are negligible, and offset by the beneficial effect of more oxygen from increased circulation.

he he good boners

Interesting stuff. So, these are examples of what I was looking for, thanks.
I might do some more research, although it's hard to find unbiased material that comes from a neutral standing point. :facepalm:

[ducatilover]

There are dozens more I'm afraid

Sure some nutters will not heal their minds getting high all the time, and some nutters will medicate well on the stuff, so hey, keep it away from the wrong people!
If you have time, I'd like to hear more.

The problem is, people who don't medicate well and want it, will bring up their rights...:facepalm:

[SMOKEU]

It's been linked to triggering schizophrenia, memory loss and reduced cognitive function. Hasn't been a huge amount of people affected like this, but I imagine this is why it's still illegal. I have papers buried somewhere from a study I did on it.



That is nothing but mere speculation, except for the memory loss part which is only true while the user is under the influence.



he he good boners

+1

[scumdog]

That is nothing but mere speculation, except for the memory loss part which is only true while the user is under the influence.

Well at least from what you remember....:shifty:

Ban it, nicotene and alcohol I say... :wings:

[scissorhands]

I can see why you like Ducati's

[SMOKEU]

Well at least from what you remember....:shifty:

Ban it, nicotene and alcohol I say... :wings:

Ban bikes as well, they're too bloody dangerous. Wrap the kids in cotton wool next and ban rugby, too. Then put a speed limiter on all cars so they can't go faster than 20kmh.

[ducatilover]

That is nothing but mere speculation, except for the memory loss part which is only true while the user is under the influence.



+1
I'm trying to find a copy of "The Human Toxicity of Marijuana" and possibly any related articles.
It's been a while since I searched archives and I doubt anything I may (or may not) find will be read or considered anyway. I've spent too much time debating with marijuana users to have hope of reasonable debate.

http://ukpmc.ac.uk/abstract/MED/2174024

I (http://ukpmc.ac.uk/abstract/MED/2174024) can't find any full reports, I'm failing at this lol

[ducatilover]

I can see why you like Ducati's
:facepalm: You caught me

[scissorhands]

I've spent too much time debating with marijuana users to have hope of reasonable debate.

http://ukpmc.ac.uk/abstract/MED/2174024

I (http://ukpmc.ac.uk/abstract/MED/2174024) can't find any full reports, I'm failing at this lol

Hmmm, I think you need a joint!

[ducatilover]

Hmmm, I think you need a joint!

Gave that up some time ago :yes:
I prefer the killer B's, bikes, 'baccy, booze and bitches. :innocent:

[scissorhands]

Gave that up some time ago :yes:
I prefer the killer B's, bikes, 'baccy, booze and bitches. :innocent:

Aye, truth be known I'm having a few Bavarian lagers tonight...

If I had to choose between alcohol and weed I would keep alcohol, its food with vitamins and minerals. Stout....mmmm

[ducatilover]

Aye, truth be known I'm having a few Bavarian lagers tonight...

If I had to choose between alcohol and weed I would keep alcohol, its food with vitamins and minerals. Stout....mmmm

Liquid bread innit?

[Usarka]

Marijuana also has some neuroprotective qualities.


It's been linked to triggering schizophrenia, memory loss and reduced cognitive function.

I am aware that it can trigger psychosis in younger people, esp males, but it usually requires a genetic predisposition. Not sure what the numbers are, but if it's significant then make it legal when you're 24.........


On a more serious note, this is undoubtedly a good reason to do drugs:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/0AckvdGbk4w" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[ducatilover]

Marijuana also has some neuroprotective qualities.



I am aware that it can trigger psychosis in younger people, esp males, but it usually requires a genetic predisposition. Not sure what the numbers are, but if it's significant then make it legal when you're 24.........


On a more serious note, this is undoubtedly a good reason to do drugs
I haven't watched that show in quite some time...like Blackbooks on acid. :laugh:

Making it legal after 24? I suppose that could work.
Or only available to people with a pot licence? It won't change anything with young people, they'll still smoke it.

[SMOKEU]

I am aware that it can trigger psychosis in younger people, esp males, but it usually requires a genetic predisposition. Not sure what the numbers are, but if it's significant then make it legal when you're 24.........


Then you should also be aware that peanuts, shellfish and honey can kill some people. I say we should ban those products immediately.

[Usarka]

Then you should also be aware that peanuts, shellfish and honey can kill some people. I say we should ban those products immediately.

Oh wait, logic! Good point sir :D

Ezxcept...... if someone dies from peanuts then they're not a burden on the state. But then refer to motorcyclists being hypocrites section.

[haydes55]

So far in this thread we have learnt that, in some cases marijuana smoked by young people can be harmful causing mental illnesses. The only other harm that is possibly linked with marijuana is if you smoke 5 joints a day for 10 year, you are likely to have minor memory loss equivalent to being knocked out once in your life.

Any other harm?

If it was legal there would be age restrictions and youths would find it harder to get their hands on. Harm 1 near eliminated. Excess of anything is harmful. Having 5 energy drinks a day for 10 year will probably make your heart explode (there have been deaths attributed to people drinking a few energy drinks after a night on the piss and the sudden speed up of a slowed heart causes cardiac arrest in rare situations). Put a "Limit of 2 per day" label on packages of weed same as energy drinks.

Gangs will lose a huge profit.

[mashman]

A question that hasn't been asked, that I remember, but how much do you use per "smoke". A light sprinkle, 99% (snigger) baccy and 1% grass? 75 - 25, 50 - 50, 25 - 50, 100% (includes pipes/bongs/brownies etc...)?

WHEN I have a smoke I'm in the 99% - 1% bracket... or a tinny will do me about 6 - 8 smokes.

[Usarka]

possibly linked with marijuana is if you smoke 5 joints a day for 10 year, you are likely to have minor memory loss equivalent to being knocked out once in your life.


Recent research would suggest marijuana's neuro protective qualities would help if you are knocked out......

http://www.jneurosci.org/content/21/17/6475.abstract


WHEN I have a smoke I'm in the 99% - 1% bracket... or a tinny will do me about 6 - 8 smokes.

Yeah i use a tiny amount, if i start feeling tolerant i lay off for a while. I got an 8th about 3 months ago and still going strong. Helps me sleep good though, better than benzos and other dodgy quack pharmaceuticals, and it makes the mighty boosh, cleveland show etc much more entertaining. Secondary to the medicinal effects obviously.

[haydes55]

Recent research would suggest marijuana's neuro protective qualities would help if you are knocked out......

http://www.jneurosci.org/content/21/17/6475.abstract

So ambulances should have laughing gas for pain and marijuana smoke in another cylinder for head injuries :laugh:

Bureaucracy slows down health advancements as bad as the church slowed down progress of everything.

[haydes55]

A question that hasn't been asked, that I remember, but how much do you use per "smoke". A light sprinkle, 99% (snigger) baccy and 1% grass? 75 - 25, 50 - 50, 25 - 50, 100% (includes pipes/bongs/brownies etc...)?

WHEN I have a smoke I'm in the 99% - 1% bracket... or a tinny will do me about 6 - 8 smokes.

I'm a bong man, 2 or 3 hits and that's enough for me for the night.

The way you smoke (spliffs) is actually more harmful because of the tobacco haha (although it does burn alot better)

[SMOKEU]

I'm a bong man, 2 or 3 hits and that's enough for me for the night.



Bong hits are teh epic win. Way nicer than spots anyway.

[Usarka]

So ambulances should have laughing gas for pain and marijuana smoke in another cylinder for head injuries :laugh:


Would be a hoot at least!

Kava kava has also been shown to have similar neuroprotective qualities. The pisser is I literally turned down a hit of kava after i mashed my nogan in the islands. Dumb arse!

[haydes55]

Would be a hoot at least!

Kava kava has also been shown to have similar neuroprotective qualities.

I tried that kava kava and it just tasted yuck and no effect. (had an indian mate make us up a batch so it was done legit)

[SMOKEU]

Would be a hoot at least!

Kava kava has also been shown to have similar neuroprotective qualities. The pisser is I literally turned down a hit of kava after i mashed my nogan in the islands. Dumb arse!


I tried that kava kava and it just tasted yuck and no effect. (had an indian mate make us up a batch so it was done legit)

You can buy it from many convenience stores in NZ and Indian spice shops. Get 1 heaped tablespoon of kava powder, and mix it with around 150-200ml of water. Skull the fucker down, I know it tastes nasty, but just try to drink it as fast as possible.

Drink another glass of it 15 minutes later and you're on your way to a mild, but good buzz.

I suggest taking a big gulp of water straight after ingesting the kava to wash down the taste and the bits of stuff that will end up in your mouth.

[mashman]

The way you smoke (spliffs) is actually more harmful because of the tobacco haha (although it does burn alot better)

heh, I'm a dumb smoker of some quarter of a century now anyway.

[ducatilover]

So far in this thread we have learnt that, in some cases marijuana smoked by young people can be harmful causing mental illnesses. The only other harm that is possibly linked with marijuana is if you smoke 5 joints a day for 10 year, you are likely to have minor memory loss equivalent to being knocked out once in your life.


Mental illness is no small issue mate.
I'd like to see an explanation for drug fucked weed users

[scissorhands]

Mental illness is no small issue mate.
I'd like to see an explanation for drug fucked weed users

yawn....when you see a drug fucked person, I would hazard a guess that many things came together to produce that state

Brain degeneration can occur in many ways, I recently had concussion, and still have the effects, I was nearly knocked out.

heavy metals here http://www.flcv.com/tmlbn.html

Remember that when you see a very stoned person....this is not drug fucked, just a very stoned person.

I see older long term users all the time, they are not drug fucked. Many have ADHD or autism and self medicate. What you may see as drug fucked may actually be an underlying genetic neurology.

Other older users I know are iconoclastic eloquent speakers of very high intelligence, driven to the far corners of society by ignorant half wits throwing out repeated one liners taught to them by the lead gorilla....

I think your just biased against weed, like some protestants dont like catholics, ford vrs holden, etc etc

Its actually a very irrational and delusional position for you, discarding users as 'drug fucked' limits your understanding considerably. It could be seen as a sociopathic comment, a racism if you like

You say drug fucked weed smokers, yet indulge in tobacco and alcohol and 'bitches' as you state.....

I call hypocrisy and lies

[SMOKEU]

Mental illness is no small issue mate.
I'd like to see an explanation for drug fucked weed users

How do you know they're not fucked from some other drugs or alcohol? How do you know their mother wasn't an alcoholic or drug user while pregnant with the child? How do you know they don't have a mental illness which started long before they had their first toke?

When you show me some unbiased scientific evidence that proves your case, I'm willing to look at it. I don't believe hokus pokus.

[scumdog]

How do you know they're not fucked from some other drugs or alcohol? How do you know their mother wasn't an alcoholic or drug user while pregnant with the child? How do you know they don't have a mental illness which started long before they had their first toke?

When you show me some unbiased scientific evidence that proves your case, I'm willing to look at it. I don't believe hokus pokus.

L.i.s.t.e.n.

He didn't want to know about all the examples you have quoted (defensively) - he wanted to know about 'drug fucked wierdos'

Apparently.

[mashman]

Mental illness is no small issue mate.
I'd like to see an explanation for drug fucked weed users

that's all alcohol related, nothing to do with weed...

[onearmedbandit]

Mental illness is no small issue mate.
I'd like to see an explanation for drug fucked weed users

I'd like to see an explanation for idiot fucked motorcycle riders. And one for idiot fucked car drivers. Oh and one for idiot fucked people that beat children. Add to that idiot fucked men who rape women. Don't forget idiot fucked people that like to attack the weak and elderly.

There are fucked people everywhere. Years ago (thousands to hundreds) they would've met their fate a long time ago, unable to successfully provide for themselves or killed by a revenge attack. Now we live in a society where the rest of us provide for them or put them up for a few years. So yup there are drug fucked weed users out there. Is it the weeds fault? Or societies? Is it the motorcycles fault? The cars fault?

[ducatilover]

yawn....when you see a drug fucked person, I would hazard a guess that many things came together to produce that state

Brain degeneration can occur in many ways, I recently had concussion, and still have the effects, I was nearly knocked out.

heavy metals here http://www.flcv.com/tmlbn.html

Remember that when you see a very stoned person....this is not drug fucked, just a very stoned person.

I see older long term users all the time, they are not drug fucked. Many have ADHD or autism and self medicate. What you may see as drug fucked may actually be an underlying genetic neurology.

Other older users I know are iconoclastic eloquent speakers of very high intelligence, driven to the far corners of society by ignorant half wits throwing out repeated one liners taught to them by the lead gorilla....

I think your just biased against weed, like some protestants dont like catholics, ford vrs holden, etc etc

Its actually a very irrational and delusional position for you, discarding users as 'drug fucked' limits your understanding considerably. It could be seen as a sociopathic comment, a racism if you like

You say drug fucked weed smokers, yet indulge in tobacco and alcohol and 'bitches' as you state.....

I call hypocrisy and lies
I'm not biased against weed, I am biased against the biased arguments on both sides. I personally couldn't care less if it's made legal, it won't raise the number of young mentally ill at all, or the elusive drug fucked people I talk of.
Drug fucked is a term used for simplicity and recognition...
No doubt about my hypocrisy at all, I do all those things in moderation and no longer smoke weed, I'm not telling anyone else to abide by what I say am I? Just looking for valid arguments, like ones you would need to press forward if legalising cannabis is what you want.
You do make some good points for it too, which is better than the majority's "I like it, make it legal" argument.


How do you know they're not fucked from some other drugs or alcohol? How do you know their mother wasn't an alcoholic or drug user while pregnant with the child? How do you know they don't have a mental illness which started long before they had their first toke?

When you show me some unbiased scientific evidence that proves your case, I'm willing to look at it. I don't believe hokus pokus.
I look after two foetal alcohol kids and they are completely different to tyhe "drug fucked" chaps I speak of.
I see the drug fucked part has raised a good response, which is nice. Finally.


L.i.s.t.e.n.

He didn't want to know about all the examples you have quoted (defensively) - he wanted to know about 'drug fucked wierdos'

Apparently.
Or am I just trollin'? :facepalm:


that's all alcohol related, nothing to do with weed...
I better get off alcohol then?


I'd like to see an explanation for idiot fucked motorcycle riders. And one for idiot fucked car drivers. Oh and one for idiot fucked people that beat children. Add to that idiot fucked men who rape women. Don't forget idiot fucked people that like to attack the weak and elderly.

There are fucked people everywhere. Years ago (thousands to hundreds) they would've met their fate a long time ago, unable to successfully provide for themselves or killed by a revenge attack. Now we live in a society where the rest of us provide for them or put them up for a few years. So yup there are drug fucked weed users out there. Is it the weeds fault? Or societies? Is it the motorcycles fault? The cars fault?
Idiot riders = right hand twisting that thingy on the bar makes them mad.
Car drivers = fucked if I know.
Children/elderly beaters = a desire to be dominant or just plain aggressive cunts. (I bet it doesn't happen when they smoke pot)

[ducatilover]

heavy metals here http://www.flcv.com/tmlbn.html

:blink: I think I'll go live in a box now

[scissorhands]

Or am I just trollin'? :facepalm:




Please list some drug fucked stoners (apart from KB members)

I think your argument is weak

here is a Jamaican tour guide to bob marleys house, this guy admits to 25 joints per day, he dont look too bad to me, brighter and more cognisant than some who have never touched weed


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MorR04iLtMw

[ducatilover]

Please list some drug fucked stoners (apart from KB members)

I think your argument is weak



I have a fair few mates like so and have met many.
You're telling me that no-one ends up becoming slower and less sharp under heavy usage?
If that is so, the lot I know are all shit and on other drugs (many of them aren't drinkers) because a few were once very intelligent, now they're mere fools.
On the flip side, I have many mates who smoke a lot and have no noticeable drop in intelligence or even motivation.

I'm merely suggesting that people can become slower and less active if they smoke a lot of pot.
I know that can be said for many other drugs, legal or not, but that's not the point here.

[Usarka]

here is a Jamaican tour guide to bob marleys house, this guy admits to 25 joints per day, he dont look too bad to me, brighter and more cognisant than some who have never touched weed


I did a feluca (sailboat) ride up the nile with a Captain Jamaica in the late 90's. Before he started the sales pitch he rolled a fat one and passed it around. Twas a very relaxed couple of days

[SMOKEU]

I have a fair few mates like so and have met many.
You're telling me that no-one ends up becoming slower and less sharp under heavy usage?
If that is so, the lot I know are all shit and on other drugs (many of them aren't drinkers) because a few were once very intelligent, now they're mere fools.
On the flip side, I have many mates who smoke a lot and have no noticeable drop in intelligence or even motivation.

I'm merely suggesting that people can become slower and less active if they smoke a lot of pot.
I know that can be said for many other drugs, legal or not, but that's not the point here.

Finally, you're speaking sense.

[onearmedbandit]

Here's the way I see it, for myself that is. I'm a regular smoker, have been for 20yrs now. I hold down a good job, I pay my bills and have a little left over for toys etc. I come home from work, greet the fiancé who beats me home from work and has dinner on and I have a little smoke with my bong. We discuss each others day and then enjoy a good meal. A little while after dinner I'll have another quick smoke, maybe watch something I want to watch, do some work around the house, maybe some time working on the bike or reading a book. I'll have another smoke around 10:30'ish after she has gone to bed and spend some time on the 'net or out in the garage. I'll then be off to bed around 1:30-2:00am. Every night. If I was to replace getting high with getting drunk none of that would be achieved.

We like to get over to Melbourne once or twice a year, for up to 10 days at a time. Of course during that period I have nothing to smoke, and it doesn't concern me, I'm on holiday from my normal routine. So I can't be addicted. Yet if I were to do the same with alcohol I dare say I'd still be drinking every night.

So weed works for me. Some my ask why I smoke it at all if it's not an addiction (which it isn't, when I say every night there are some nights that don't follow that routine and it never concerns me). I enjoy the feeling, it relaxes me (especially from my pain) and believe it or not it motivates me, both physically and mentally. My memory is fine, I get comments all the time about how I remember even the finest details from deals I did months ago, to other workmates deals, to all sorts of obscure shit. I exercise when I'm high, I socialise, I can exist with or without it.

Yes there are certainly those that shouldn't be on it, and there are those that it does no favours for. I don't advocate it for anyone else, it's a personal decision and one that I respect. I'm discreet with it so criminal prosecution doesn't concern me, and if I was to be 'raided' I'm afraid they'd be wasting their time. But I do not believe I should be fined or convicted for smoking peacefully in my home when there are problems within society, problems that beat up children and partners, rape and murder, problems that stem from a legal drug, happening every minute of every day in this country. More people in NZ use this drug, it's a killer, proven killer, known killer, and our politicians get it at an even better rate than you can.

[haydes55]

Mental illness is no small issue mate.
I'd like to see an explanation for drug fucked weed users

Never said it was a small issue, in fact it's a big issue. If you hold mental illness in such high regard, and know there is a risk of mental illness from youths smoking marijuana, why don't you support legalisation and age restrictions? Legalisation will drop the amount of marijuana available to youths, there is no doubt about that. There is no proof of mental illness from adults smoking it so again no reason for it not to be legalised.

[ducatilover]

Finally, you're speaking sense.

:shit: My bad

[scissorhands]

I have a fair few mates like so and have met many.
You're telling me that no-one ends up becoming slower and less sharp under heavy usage?
If that is so, the lot I know are all shit and on other drugs (many of them aren't drinkers) because a few were once very intelligent, now they're mere fools.
On the flip side, I have many mates who smoke a lot and have no noticeable drop in intelligence or even motivation.

I'm merely suggesting that people can become slower and less active if they smoke a lot of pot.
I know that can be said for many other drugs, legal or not, but that's not the point here.

okay so slow and less active = fucked up on weed

No examples eh? FAIL

Plenty of Kiwis fucked up on alcohol, far more than weed.

3 monthly checks$$$ with your cannabis prescribing doctor to see if your fucking out.... shame they are not even bothering with booze, tobacco or bad diet though????

[scumdog]

I have a fair few mates like so and have met many.
You're telling me that no-one ends up becoming slower and less sharp under heavy usage?
If that is so, the lot I know are all shit and on other drugs (many of them aren't drinkers) because a few were once very intelligent, now they're mere fools.
On the flip side, I have many mates who smoke a lot and have no noticeable drop in intelligence or even motivation.

I'm merely suggesting that people can become slower and less active if they smoke a lot of pot.
I know that can be said for many other drugs, legal or not, but that's not the point here.

Kind of sums up my experience.

Of course a fair few of the subjects ain't exactly 'mates' but it is still the same picture regardless. (although it is possible that I run across more examples of the drug-fucked variety than the average person will)

And I see piss equally affecting a certain sector of society.

[jonbuoy]

I stopped smoking in my mid 20's, had paranoia, bad short term memory problems and was dependent on it for sleep. I only drink now worst I suffer from is now is the occaisonal bad hangover purely physical.

Would anyone be happy to fly with a pilot who smokes heavily?

[mashman]

I stopped smoking in my mid 20's, had paranoia, bad short term memory problems and was dependent on it for sleep. I only drink now worst I suffer from is now is the occaisonal bad hangover purely physical.

Would anyone be happy to fly with a pilot who smokes heavily?

I've been in cars with people in much worse conditions than being stoned... so probably wouldn't have too much of a problem with a stoned pilot... depending on how stoned he was.

[Kickaha]

Plenty of Kiwis fucked up on alcohol, far more than weed.


Plenty of Kiwis are just plain fucked up without either of those two

[SMOKEU]

Would anyone be happy to fly with a pilot who smokes heavily?

Yup. I know people who don't smoke weed but they are absolutely terrible drivers. So bad that I'm afraid to get in a car with them because they txt heaps while driving, and they are so distracted from conversation and other things that they run red lights, swerve all over the road, cut corners and end up on the wrong side of the road, drive right through stop signs without even realising.

Yet I also know people who drive stoned quite often and they are very safe drivers.

[Madness]

I stopped smoking in my mid 20's, had paranoia, bad short term memory problems and was dependent on it for sleep. I only drink now worst I suffer from is now is the occaisonal bad hangover purely physical.

Would anyone be happy to fly with a pilot who smokes heavily?

Smoking pot & drinking piss affects people in different ways. An old mate of mine (stabbed to death by a drunk) had a girlfriend who could drink most blokes under the table. One puff of a J though and it was Goodnight Kiwi(tm). If Cannabis was having the effects that you describe I'm happy for you that you've stopped using it. I don't drink. I've never mastered the art of it & rarely have an enjoyable experience with the stuff. I hold down a position of some responsibility and am no burden on the taxpayer. I pay taxes & full >600cc bike rego :innocent:. Despite all of this, I am a criminal under our current laws because I smoke my drug of choice rather than drink it.

BTW, if I knew the heavy smoking pilot I probably would fly with them. Lets face it, so long as they've been flying stoned for any prolonged period of time they must be doing okay, Hmmm?

[Usarka]

It'd be fine, the pilot would just fly really slow.....

[haydes55]

It'd be fine, the pilot would just fly really slow.....

It's my understanding when a plane goes slow, it stops "flying" and starts "falling"... :laugh:

[SMOKEU]

It'd be fine, the pilot would just fly really slow.....


It's my understanding when a plane goes slow, it stops "flying" and starts "falling"... :laugh:

All this shit here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V_speeds would be pretty buzzy to take note of after a good sesh.

[puddytat]

Here's the way I see it, for myself that is. I'm a regular smoker, have been for 20yrs now. I hold down a good job, I pay my bills and have a little left over for toys etc. I come home from work, greet the fiancé who beats me home from work and has dinner on and I have a little smoke with my bong. We discuss each others day and then enjoy a good meal. A little while after dinner I'll have another quick smoke, maybe watch something I want to watch, do some work around the house, maybe some time working on the bike or reading a book. I'll have another smoke around 10:30'ish after she has gone to bed and spend some time on the 'net or out in the garage. I'll then be off to bed around 1:30-2:00am. Every night. If I was to replace getting high with getting drunk none of that would be achieved.

We like to get over to Melbourne once or twice a year, for up to 10 days at a time. Of course during that period I have nothing to smoke, and it doesn't concern me, I'm on holiday from my normal routine. So I can't be addicted. Yet if I were to do the same with alcohol I dare say I'd still be drinking every night.

So weed works for me. Some my ask why I smoke it at all if it's not an addiction (which it isn't, when I say every night there are some nights that don't follow that routine and it never concerns me). I enjoy the feeling, it relaxes me (especially from my pain) and believe it or not it motivates me, both physically and mentally. My memory is fine, I get comments all the time about how I remember even the finest details from deals I did months ago, to other workmates deals, to all sorts of obscure shit. I exercise when I'm high, I socialise, I can exist with or without it.

Yes there are certainly those that shouldn't be on it, and there are those that it does no favours for. I don't advocate it for anyone else, it's a personal decision and one that I respect. I'm discreet with it so criminal prosecution doesn't concern me, and if I was to be 'raided' I'm afraid they'd be wasting their time. But I do not believe I should be fined or convicted for smoking peacefully in my home when there are problems within society, problems that beat up children and partners, rape and murder, problems that stem from a legal drug, happening every minute of every day in this country. More people in NZ use this drug, it's a killer, proven killer, known killer, and our politicians get it at an even better rate than you can.

And thats more or less the same way for me & I would say most of my friends....it seems to be the people who would have an abuse problem with any drug, that give drugs a bad name. One thing I must say is that in my opinion I can have a much more fulfilling debate with a stoned person than with a drunk or your averge "Straight".And alot of smokers dont actually act stoned when they are. They just seem simply more open minded on most subjects, often have more interest in international news & events, can get thier heads around radical concepts better & arnt stuck in the Dogma of their parents.

[mashman]

Just watchin those adds on TV... the one where the driver is stoned and the chick in the back starts freaking out. Every time he asks them if they've got any food I burst into laughter. I wonder why the time keeps changing on the video... anyhoo those ads do nothing for me other than make me laugh.

[jonbuoy]

Smoking pot & drinking piss affects people in different ways. An old mate of mine (stabbed to death by a drunk) had a girlfriend who could drink most blokes under the table. One puff of a J though and it was Goodnight Kiwi(tm). If Cannabis was having the effects that you describe I'm happy for you that you've stopped using it. I don't drink. I've never mastered the art of it & rarely have an enjoyable experience with the stuff. I hold down a position of some responsibility and am no burden on the taxpayer. I pay taxes & full >600cc bike rego :innocent:. Despite all of this, I am a criminal under our current laws because I smoke my drug of choice rather than drink it.

BTW, if I knew the heavy smoking pilot I probably would fly with them. Lets face it, so long as they've been flying stoned for any prolonged period of time they must be doing okay, Hmmm?

Thats a bit like saying I drive drunk all the time never had an accident so I must be able to handle it. I would not knowingly fly with a pilot who smoked heavily. From my personal experience the after effects of cannabis lasted a lot longer than alcohol, for me that cotton wool head feeling lasted days after a smoke. The only time I´ve ever felt the same wooliness is after a REALLY heavy night on the piss which is very rare these days.

[mashman]

And thats more or less the same way for me & I would say most of my friends....it seems to be the people who would have an abuse problem with any drug, that give drugs a bad name.

True... and cannabis can't kill them... which could be seen as a bit of a shame in ways :laugh:

[ducatilover]

Never said it was a small issue, in fact it's a big issue. If you hold mental illness in such high regard, and know there is a risk of mental illness from youths smoking marijuana, why don't you support legalisation and age restrictions? Legalisation will drop the amount of marijuana available to youths, there is no doubt about that. There is no proof of mental illness from adults smoking it so again no reason for it not to be legalised.
If it was enforced like Scissorhands then yes, the legal weed would be hard for youths to get. Good.

What about the current illegal stuff? Untaxed weed is going to be nice and cheap. If I was buying again and under age, I could get it.
Legalising it won't drop the amount of problems regarding health (which we have established isn't really much of a dent on the health system anyway), what it would do, that I fully support is potentially kill a huge illegal market and crime organisations (lol gangs) will lose out.


okay so slow and less active = fucked up on weed

No examples eh? FAIL

Plenty of Kiwis fucked up on alcohol, far more than weed.

3 monthly checks$$$ with your cannabis prescribing doctor to see if your fucking out.... shame they are not even bothering with booze, tobacco or bad diet though????
Would you like to come meet them?
I understand you're pro weed and seem to think I'm anti weed, all I'm doing is attempting to get a rational argument (which you provide) as there aren't enough pro-weed people who can do it to see it become legal IMHO



I have to agree with alcohol, I'd understand if that (or tobacco) was made illegal, they both cause problems, not fix them. I wouldn't argue about not having either if it was a legality issue.

[Madness]

Thats a bit like saying I drive drunk all the time never had an accident so I must be able to handle it. I would not knowingly fly with a pilot who smoked heavily. From my personal experience the after effects of cannabis lasted a lot longer than alcohol, for me that cotton wool head feeling lasted days after a smoke. The only time I´ve ever felt the same wooliness is after a REALLY heavy night on the piss which is very rare these days.

Yeah, nah. I would fly with a pilot who I knew was stoned but knew he could handle it yet I would be extremely wary of being driven by anyone who has had more than say 3 cans of beer. From my personal experience I'd say that you are particularly over-sensitive to THC and I wouldn't fly with someone like you who is stoned. Nothing personal.

[ducatilover]

True... and cannabis can't kill them... which could be seen as a bit of a shame in ways :laugh:
I wonder if it's possible to get some harder drug users on to some uber green?

[mashman]

I wonder if it's possible to get some harder drug users on to some uber green?

Dunno, I would imagine that it's been tried by some. I've never been addicted to anything harder, I know that sounds wrong... in a good way, to know if high concentrations of THC would replace methadone or any other prescription withdrawal aids. I'm more than happy to try it out, impartially and in the name of science of course (won't enjoy a minute) if someone's gonna be funding the experiment :). It may well serve as a long term replacement if the addiction is to the sensation and not to the enjoyment iykwim.

That's a darn fine question.

[ducatilover]

Dunno, I would imagine that it's been tried by some. I've never been addicted to anything harder, I know that sounds wrong... in a good way, to know if high concentrations of THC would replace methadone or any other prescription withdrawal aids. I'm more than happy to try it out, impartially and in the name of science of course (won't enjoy a minute) if someone's gonna be funding the experiment :). It may well serve as a long term replacement if the addiction is to the sensation and not to the enjoyment iykwim.

That's a darn fine question.

I think it's a great idea. You can have my sample?

Scissorhands? What sayeth you?

[mashman]

I think it's a great idea. You can have my sample?

Scissorhands? What sayeth you?

For some reason I'm envisioning a beaker full of white fluid appearing in the mail... potentially laced with green food colouring :sick:

[ducatilover]

For some reason I'm envisioning a beaker full of white fluid appearing in the mail... potentially laced with green food colouring :sick:

How the fuck did you know?

[mashman]

How the fuck did you know?

Ahh ya see, I've been "straight" for extensive periods of time and have honed my telepathic abilities through the practice of plane surfing. Bit of a mind fuck, and a curse, but I'm a 1st plane black belt now and can bend spoons with my mind. Forks are another thing entirely, but I'll get there.

[ducatilover]

Ahh ya see, I've been "straight" for extensive periods of time and have honed my telepathic abilities through the practice of plane surfing. Bit of a mind fuck, and a curse, but I'm a 1st plane black belt now and can bend spoons with my mind. Forks are another thing entirely, but I'll get there.

Step away from the bong bro... :laugh:

[scissorhands]

Are you guys mind readers?

Did the interesting drug you once tried help you in any way?

I got a bit pissed 2 nights back and with the recent head injury am not 100%. No stories

I'm okay, but the grog knocked me around.

Yawn.... I'm getting bored with these clubs, I like the mateship but I'm not a hard out stoner like most.

[ducatilover]

Are you guys mind readers?

Did the interesting drug you once tried help you in any way?

Yes and which interesting drug, there have been a couple or six

[jonbuoy]

Yeah, nah. I would fly with a pilot who I knew was stoned but knew he could handle it yet I would be extremely wary of being driven by anyone who has had more than say 3 cans of beer. From my personal experience I'd say that you are particularly over-sensitive to THC and I wouldn't fly with someone like you who is stoned. Nothing personal.

You could be right, I´m sure I´m not the only one who has experienced negative side effects from THC. Some people don´t drink because they get hideous hangovers or make twats of themselves after only a few beers. Stoned but knew he could handle an aircraft? :facepalm: Any amount of drug including booze can effect decision making, purely slander here but there is a good chance the cruise ship that ran aground recently had something to do with alcohol. Don´t worry I don´t take it personally - I don´t suffer from paranoia :shutup:

[Usarka]

I wonder if it's possible to get some harder drug users on to some uber green?

I worked with a guy who was trying to stop smoking and decided to smoke cabbage every time he wanted a cigarette.

He was stoned for weeks before deciding it wasn't a good idea working at a hospital in that state........

[scissorhands]

In regard to peeps like us, 25 plus reasonably sound men

The only issues of consequence in order of importance are:

1 soft thru the middle
Many guys can lose drive and ambition, and sit around getting stoned with their mates all day

2 driving
Until one becomes accustomed to the effects, driving is difficult. However, old school stoners are slow and safe, absolutely no incidents in many high end users over a 2-3 year period.

These are direct observations.
I have pretty much almost finished a thesis on the cannabis culture movement, so I have little reason to stay as I have learnt what I came to learn. I may write a book, aspies love their special interests, but once the spark is gone its goodnight from me.


Nearly all the other claims are mostly bollocks, some small truths, but not enough to warrant attention.

I mean I wouldnt fly with someone who ate 1/2 packet of tim tams and 2 coffees, but is that really a topic of debate?

If your looking for permanent damage to individuals and society, cannabis is way down the list of most offending culprits.

It would be the petty thief.......... stealing some youth from society and parents, but hey, ownership of wilful PDD peeps has always been a hard or near impossible road that causes many lion tamers with a whip and a chair.....to go mad....

and so they should-bastard alpha male wants all the action


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VH_DkBI9Qsk

[jonbuoy]

Mate my point is cannabis isn't totally harmless, you can get used to driving pissed as well but why would you? All drugs have side effects, if we didn't know about alchohol and someone started brewing it up in their back yard and selling it on the streets it wouldn't take long before it was banned and made illegal. Cannabis is not much better or worse than alchohol, but to say its better or harmless is not true. The only reason alchohol is legal is because its been so ingrained in our everyday lives for hundreds of years.

[scissorhands]

Mate my point is cannabis isn't totally harmless, you can get used to driving pissed as well but why would you? All drugs have side effects, if we didn't know about alchohol and someone started brewing it up in their back yard and selling it on the streets it wouldn't take long before it was banned and made illegal. Cannabis is not much better or worse than alchohol, but to say its better or harmless is not true. The only reason alchohol is legal is because its been so ingrained in our everyday lives for hundreds of years.

oops I've lost my whip and chair!:yawn:

[mashman]

Step away from the bong bro... :laugh:

heh, that was without the aid of a bong :wings:... damn I needs to weeds myself up again.

[scumdog]

I got a bit pissed 2 nights back and with the recent head injury am not 100%. No stories

I'm okay, but the grog knocked me around.



Persist pissed bro - you'll slowly get adjusted to it.

The negative side is you'll require more and more for the same effect...'

[ducatilover]

oops I've lost my whip and chair!:yawn:
He makes some good points and from personal experience.


heh, that was without the aid of a bong :wings:... damn I needs to weeds myself up again.
Jeeeebus Crumbs!

[scissorhands]

Persist pissed bro - you'll slowly get adjusted to it.

The negative side is you'll require more and more for the same effect...'

Grog is definitely a nono for now, my head still has sore bits come and go which wernt there before I drunk alcohol, and the concussion was a month ago. I drank a wee bit a few times this last month and each time after I wasnt quite right

No piss for me for a long time:shit:

[puddytat]

Did the interesting drug you once tried help you in any way?

.

Well weed certainly helped me with opening up my third eye, but it was the 'shrooms which really threw the door open ....wide.

And before the righteous step in let me assure them I only do natural shit. I recommend it:yes:

[mashman]

And before the righteous step in let me assure them I only do natural shit. I recommend it:yes:

Still not had the Kiwi mushy's... Idiot seeks caring sharing fellow to take him under their wing come mushy season time :)

[scissorhands]

Well weed certainly helped me with opening up my third eye, but it was the 'shrooms which really threw the door open ....wide.

And before the righteous step in let me assure them I only do natural shit. I recommend it:yes:

Mushrooms in Bali are regarded as as sacrament, and most young men and women will try them. They are considered an aid to development into adulthood. One street is devoted to mushroom houses for tourists, but one joint will get you years in a hell prison. Yet in other far parts of the Indonesian Archipelago, cannabis is freely available.

Mushrooms hold the risk of damage and neural remapping will occur even for first timers. More risks are present because of overdose and overuse. But its simple to avoid and the Balinese are considerately wary of giving too much for too long, to dumb tourists who do fuck out on mushrooms.

I highly recommend them too, but extreme care must be taken. I think anyone wanting to try them needs to prepare mentally and physically as they are very demanding and unforgiving at times. Some massive stoners I know behaved at odds on mushrooms when they tried them casually at a friends once.

Those who consider the experience seriously beforehand, appear to be mentally prepared for the chaos and onslaught of the 'trip to the moon', as they say in Bali

[mashman]

I highly recommend them too, but extreme care must be taken. I think anyone wanting to try them needs to prepare mentally and physically as they are very demanding and unforgiving at times. Some massive stoners I know behaved at odds on mushrooms when they tried them casually at a friends once.

Those who consider the experience seriously beforehand, appear to be mentally prepared for the chaos and onslaught of the 'trip to the moon', as they say in Bali

Vewy twue... making sure you're with people you trust is a biggy too... and have a big fat doob, or two, ready for the come down is a "necessity" imho

[puddytat]

I should also clarify that I only partake of them on pagan dates like soltices & equinoxs' & only a few times at that....with a few tusted heathens.... & the moon beckons & with it we dance & laugh like notime other ,& the grass beneath our feet carries us on waves as clouds circle & the trees are my brothers & sisters:woohoo: All is revealed,well not always all...but enough to kind of get an idea of the meaning of life & a cotentment within myself that Mother Earth is where its at.
Fuck a wafer & a sip of wine:yawn:

[jonbuoy]

Well weed certainly helped me with opening up my third eye, but it was the 'shrooms which really threw the door open ....wide.

And before the righteous step in let me assure them I only do natural shit. I recommend it:yes:

Thats sounds painful :buggerd: my third eye is staying firmly closed.

[Usarka]

Ali G
.........

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/HqZKW1WEVlM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[scissorhands]

Autistic 10year old kid responds well to cannabis
KTLA News

November 20, 2009
'Sam' is a 10 year-old California boy who lives with his Dad, Mom, and sister Lucy. Sam has autism. From age two until eight, Sam's disorder made him violent and aggressive. His parents Steve and Angela were truly living a nightmare, every day.

"He got to the point where he was hurting other children, when he was in school, or in public places," Angela explains to KTLA News. "We'd be in line at the store, and he'd just bolt and hit another child in the face without any warning at all."

Sam's Dad remembers all the tough days. "One time he pulled down a TV, he knocked over furniture. I had to put him in a hold for a whole hour. His body was just spasming, so I lay there just crying, and holding him."


Sam's parents worked with expert doctors, who recommended a succession of conventional prescription medications -- like Risperdal and a host of others. But Sam just gained 20 pounds, and he became even more dangerous........


http://www.ktla.com/news/extras/ktla-sweeps-sams-story,0,6959760.story

[SMOKEU]

That little kid sounds like a good cunt for having a sesh.

[mashman]

Autistic 10year old kid responds well to cannabis

All of a sudden not autistic eh. Go figure. That must be such a relief for the parents. Wonder what caused him to change in the first place?

[mashman]

Just about to read Pot legalization efforts forge ahead in key states (http://news.yahoo.com/pot-legalization-efforts-forge-ahead-key-u-states-175321189.html) but thought the headline was good enough :).

[ducatilover]

I can't go through to the link :facepalm:
But, it works, so good. Another brilliant case for cannabis medication.

[mashman]

I can't go through to the link :facepalm:
But, it works, so good. Another brilliant case for cannabis medication.

:blink: what? dos cerveza por favor

[scissorhands]

Autism is no joke and more prevalent than most realise, many of these people live on medication. A lot of the time complications and side effects mean medication users are forced to change medications, for their health!

Most other neurological disorders respond well to cannabis and it is safe to use

[ducatilover]

Autism is no joke and more prevalent than most realise, many of these people live on medication. A lot of the time complications and side effects mean medication users are forced to change medications, for their health!

Most other neurological disorders respond well to cannabis and it is safe to use
I'm not sure if there would be implications with such young people and developing minds, but I think if it's supplied as you previously said, I think it may be a good idea.


:blink: what? dos cerveza por favor
You supply the beer? :bleh:
I must be wrong, new meds are fun though.

[mashman]

Autism is no joke and more prevalent than most realise, many of these people live on medication. A lot of the time complications and side effects mean medication users are forced to change medications, for their health!

Most other neurological disorders respond well to cannabis and it is safe to use

I wasn't making fun of it at all. It's just that there is no mention of the child being autistic from birth iykwim. I know that's like saying that someone suddenly becomes gay, but I'm just wondering that it he was such a great kid, what suddenly changed that? It's great to see that some parents are ballsy enough to try everything to help their child. I couldn't get my Mum to cookie up my Step Dad irrespective of the supporting material I sent her. I would have done it myself had I been on the other side of the world.

[mashman]

You supply the beer? :bleh:
I must be wrong, new meds are fun though.

Not unless ACC increase their levies remember...

[ducatilover]

I wasn't making fun of it at all. It's just that there is no mention of the child being autistic from birth iykwim. I know that's like saying that someone suddenly becomes gay, but I'm just wondering that it he was such a great kid, what suddenly changed that? It's great to see that some parents are ballsy enough to try everything to help their child. I couldn't get my Mum to cookie up my Step Dad irrespective of the supporting material I sent her. I would have done it myself had I been on the other side of the world.

It says from age two?
I'll get out a book if I have time and see how early it's usually diagnosed.

fwiw, people can turn gay instantly. I know, I have had several Hondas.

[scissorhands]

All of a sudden not autistic eh. Go figure. That must be such a relief for the parents. Wonder what caused him to change in the first place?

A lot of kids are born okay then become autistic, some parents say shortly after vaccinations. Sams face looks normal enough apart from the eyes and mouth, which is normal in kids who 'become' autistic, rather than those born with a more pronounced autistic face

There seems to be many types of autism.

[mashman]

A lot of kids are born okay then become autistic, some parents say shortly after vaccinations. Sams face looks normal enough apart from the eyes and mouth, which is normal in kids who 'become' autistic, rather than those born with a more pronounced autistic face

There seems to be many types of autism.

I don't doubt that there could be as many types as their are children affected, we are all different after all. It's a shame we're not benchmarked from birth so that we can find what recent changes have occurred that may have brought on an "illness".

[ducatilover]

http://autismandoughtisms.wordpress.com/2011/07/19/marijuana-for-autism-are-you-out-of-your-mind-would-you-like-to-be/





I (http://autismandoughtisms.wordpress.com/2011/07/19/marijuana-for-autism-are-you-out-of-your-mind-would-you-like-to-be/)nteresting article here

[mashman]

http://autismandoughtisms.wordpress.com/2011/07/19/marijuana-for-autism-are-you-out-of-your-mind-would-you-like-to-be/

I (http://autismandoughtisms.wordpress.com/2011/07/19/marijuana-for-autism-are-you-out-of-your-mind-would-you-like-to-be/)nteresting article here

Interesting if not a brief read. One thing I didn't know was this: "Without adequate research, the problem of isolating which of the very large number of components in marijuana are helping to ease the symptoms of autism (and the consequences of living with autism), remains a particularly significant problem, that often leads to people preferring use of the naturally occurring variants which haven’t been stripped of certain properties the way that medical marijuana often is." Do they remove properties out of medical marijuana? I thought it was normal marijuana for medical purposes?

[scissorhands]

Not many people are aware of whats what with 'medical weed'

Medical grade means grown under strict conditions, like adequate washing of nutrients, quality soil and strain specific applications

Blackjack and Sadhu are great for depression, other strains for other conditions

She may be referring to a lack of natural sun over artificial light, actually in California their local crops are outdoor

[Laava]

What do you recommend for the people who have paranoia and anxiety from smoking weed in the first place?

[oldrider]

What do you recommend for the people who have paranoia and anxiety from smoking weed in the first place?

Smoke more weed?

[Laava]

Smoke more weed?
:shit: I didn't think of that!

[mashman]

What do you recommend for the people who have paranoia and anxiety from smoking weed in the first place?

Meditation........

[Berries]

Fuck, missed it again.

[Laava]

Meditation........
You spelt medication wrong.

[Laava]

Fuck, missed it again.
Did you get wasted and forget?

[Madness]

What a fantastic thread dredge. It’s funny looking back and seeing Ed the Head was as irrelevant then as he is today. Tramadol, drug of choice for the self-righteous.

[mashman]

You spelt medication wrong.

Did I? :bleh: +afewchars

[Viking01]

Cannabis plants are very similar to hops plants. I think hops contains cannabinoids. Are own bodies make it too, like opiates

Think you mean hemp plants, rather than hop plants. Hemp plants contain varying
levels of THC and CBD cannabinoids.

If you have per chance been trying to extract cannabinoids from hop plants, well,
good luck with that experiment ... 8-)

Endorphins are natural pain relievers produced by your body. They bind to opioid
receptors in your brain helping to block perception of pain, in a similar way as
drugs like morphine.

And No, I don't think our bodies manufacture cannabinoids.

[sidecar bob]

What a fantastic thread dredge. It’s funny looking back and seeing Ed the Head was as irrelevant then as he is today. Tramadol, drug of choice for the self-righteous.

But to be fair, my views on cannabis use have lightened up a bit. Something you & I fought tooth & nail about back then:lol:

[Cosmik de Bris]

Think you mean hemp plants, rather than hop plants. Hemp plants contain varying
levels of THC and CBD cannabinoids.


Yes, I don't think Hops contain cannabinoids but I don't really know, what I do know though is that you can graft hops onto cannabis root stock and get cannabinoids into them that way.

Cheers

[TheDemonLord]

Yes, I don't think Hops contain cannabinoids but I don't really know, what I do know though is that you can graft hops onto cannabis root stock and get cannabinoids into them that way.

Cheers

What I took from that - is the possibility to brew a Beer, that gets you Stoned....

[Madness]

But to be fair, my views on cannabis use have lightened up a bit. Something you & I fought tooth & nail about back then:lol:

My own views have relaxed somewhat further also. I’ve been wake’n’baking pretty hard out the past year. Still functioning, achieving and paying taxes. Even got on the property laddder and bought my first home recently (thanks Labour) A decent supply chain would always be helpful. Just saying.

[Cosmik de Bris]

What I took from that - is the possibility to brew a Beer, that gets you Stoned....

Yes indeed. The only thing with hops is you don't get those lovely big heads, just lots of much smaller flowers.

Cheers