Police say had the rider been wearing... [Archive]

White trash

6th February 2011, 17:31

..a hi-viz vest, the accident may not have happened".

A motorcyclist was killed by a truck doing a U-turn today. The above quote is what I heard on 3 news.

So essentially, police are justifying the truck drivers murdering of a motorcyclist because said biker wasn't wearing a hi-viz.

I'm FUCKING angry. A guys family are now mourning, and the police are telling us it's his own fault for not wearing a yellow vest.

I'm off to shoot a dairy owner and steal a hundred bucks from his till, if he dies, it's the dumb curries fault for not wearing a bullet proof vest.

Fuck you NZ police.

Katman

6th February 2011, 17:39

So essentially, police are justifying the truck drivers murdering of a motorcyclist because said biker wasn't wearing a hi-viz.

Nice effort at twisting the story Jimmy. :facepalm:

PrincessBandit

6th February 2011, 17:39

I guess at face value it's an inflammatory thing to say, but the reality is that the spoken words are not without some reason. Of course the rider could have been wearing any number of items to make himself seen and still been "invisible" to anyone not with their mind on their driving.

Hear where you're coming from, and you have a point but the fact that the results were so tragic makes any statement from the police highly unlikely to go down well (unless they crucified the truckie).

blackdog

6th February 2011, 17:42

mods will prob merge this with bergs thread

considering what he does for a crust, it's an interesting opinion

Drew

6th February 2011, 17:50

Nice effort at twisting the story Jimmy. :facepalm:

FUCK YOU. Steve is it?

What planet do you live on? The bike has a head light, and any glance in a mirror will see that well before a fuckin hi vis vest.

You are a DICK in my opinion because you are in fact ANTI motorcyclist, as none of us measure up to your perfect standard.

You're bloody lucky ya didn't say that to my face, because given how angry I am I doubt very much I could control myself.

The statement made on the news puts fault on the rider, it is a FUCKIN WEAK thing to say!

White trash

6th February 2011, 17:52

but the fact that the results were so tragic makes any statement from the police highly unlikely to go down well (unless they crucified the truckie).

Ummmm, the dude disobeyed BASIC road rules, and killed another motorist. What the fuck more do we need to to crusify him? Granted, the truck driver's now in a hell I can't begin to comprehend. But for police to issue a statement, within 6 hours of someone dying, that basically fingers the dead person for not wearing a piece of clothing, and therefore being responsible for their own death is unforgiveable. If Hi-Viz vests were part of the requirements to riding on the road, no poblem. If a car driver not wearing a seatbelt when they should have, no problem. But to say the rider might have survived had he been wearing a piece of clothing that's not a requirement is bullshit.

You got your hi-viz on Steve? Bet you look real cool wearing it on the Katana. Actually, you'd do well to reflectorize the whole front of the thing. Better paint it razzle orange as well man.

Katman

6th February 2011, 17:54

You got your hi-viz on Steve? Bet you look real cool wearing it on the Katana. Actually, you'd do well to reflectorize the whole front of the thing. Better paint it razzle orange as well man.

I don't need a hi-viz.

I ride with my eyes open.

Drew

6th February 2011, 17:59

Nice effort at twisting the story Jimmy. :facepalm:

Offensive bling you gutless prick? Don't wanna man up and take that shit public?

Despite you thinking I'm a hazard on the road, and my sick sense of humour in perpetuating it. I am very fuckin passionate about motorcycling and mostly all who similarly see it as a way of life.

Life being the key word in that sentence!

It is deplorable for what was said to be broadcast on the news, and sheds a very fuckin bad light without giving any actual details.

Cocksucker am I? Wouldn't go near your wrinkled useless member even if I fuckin was cunt!

White trash

6th February 2011, 17:59

I don't need a hi-viz.

I ride with my eyes open.
Sweet as mate. I hope your eyes are open enough that your periferal vision spots the parked truck you're alongside U-turning over you.

C'mon man, sometimes, just SOMETIMES, the biker isn't at fault.

Katman

6th February 2011, 18:01

Sweet as mate. I hope your eyes are open enough that your periferal vision spots the parked truck you're alongside U-turning over you.

Vehicles don't pull u-turns without giving some clues as to their intention.

Ocean1

6th February 2011, 18:06

Vehicles don't pull u-turns without giving some clues as to their intention.

I think it's well past time you pulled your head in, arsehole.

Riff Raff

6th February 2011, 18:07

Vehicles don't pull u-turns without giving some clues as to their intention.

Really? What all the time? How many times have you seen a car, truck etc pull out onto the road without signalling their intentions? You're a cock.

98tls

6th February 2011, 18:07

I don't need a hi-viz.

I ride with my eyes open.

Didnt watch the news but Jesus K bit harsh eh.I Had a 21 year old cousin who rode a wee GN250 whilst in the Airforce up in Blenheim,she to rode with her eyes open until some old geezer cleaned her up on a straight bit of road by simply turning directly into her,last time i saw her was in Wellington hospital brain dead,never had a chance.I often read your posts and see the big picture but sometimes mate shit happens thats just wrong.

Katman

6th February 2011, 18:08

For a start, vehicles can't do u-turns without their front wheels pointing out to the right.

Riff Raff

6th February 2011, 18:11

For a start, vehicles can't do u-turns without their front wheels pointing out to the right.

How do you know what's going on directly in front of you if your eyes are tuned to the left, watching every fucken parked vehicle on the side of the road?

Max Preload

6th February 2011, 18:11

If the truck driver had looked the crash would certainly have been avoided.

jrandom

6th February 2011, 18:14

Katman is right. And Drew is funny. <3

Katman

6th February 2011, 18:15

How do you know what's going on directly in front of you if your eyes are tuned to the left, watching every fucken parked vehicle on the side of the road?

Perhaps you need to put some serious thought into how to multi-task.

RiderInBlack

6th February 2011, 18:15

So here's the thing:
Would the reported statement on the TV News by the Police been the same if the Truck had run over a Cyclist, Small Car or a Child?:Pokey: If it had been the Biker doing the U-turn, would Katman blame the Truck?

Drew

6th February 2011, 18:15

For a start, vehicles can't do u-turns without their front wheels pointing out to the right.
Are you seriously gonna continue to argue this?

The thread was started about WHAT WAS SAID on the news, not as a debate as to who killed whom.

But since you wanna try and argue what a car doing a uturn looks like?

Jimmy and I are taking turns at the moment doing wheelies through the middle of Silverstream, any kid that gets run over fuckin deserves it since they should have seen us coming!

I really don't know what the hell is wrong with you man, but by your logic no biker should be allowed out of the garage, because it isn't possible to notice everything that goes on, on the road at all times.

phill-k

6th February 2011, 18:15

Nice effort at twisting the story Jimmy. :facepalm:

Knowing your occupation I'm surprised you would comment like that, and as a biker as well you well know that the brightness of a headlight far exceeds the chance of the driver spotting a HV vest instead of the riders headlight.

In a word the police's comment is crap, this seems to go with their policy of stating speed and alcohol MAY BE involved without waiting for the formal findings of their Serious Crash Unit,

Personal message to you katman, I generally always agree with you stance put here you should have resisted the temptation to bash the keyboard.

toycollector10

6th February 2011, 18:16

Vehicles don't pull u-turns without giving some clues as to their intention.

You're wrong on that one. And one of the guys I ride with was wearing a hi viz vest when he was seriously injured by an inattentive driver.

Coldrider

6th February 2011, 18:17

Well the Police haver to shift responsibility onto the rider if speed was not an issue, nor could they detect any alcohol.

scumdog

6th February 2011, 18:18

The bike has a head light, and any glance in a mirror will see that well before a fuckin hi vis vest.

No it fucking won't.

Headlights are almost invisible when viewed from an angle, hence why my bike and normajeames bike have extra spot-lights with a wide spread.

They show up waay better than just a headlight - and they have saved me more than once.

The hi-vis vest was a 'maybe' comment, NOT a statement of fact. "Maybe IF he had been wearing a hi-vis vest he MAY have ben seen"

But then again, this IS a site where straws are clutched at, myths are believed and anything said is fact....

Katman

6th February 2011, 18:19

Smifffy

6th February 2011, 18:24

I think the cop is either deluded or a liar.

Colliding with the truck is what killed the motorcyclist. A hi viz vest would have done no good there.

Unfortunately I understand that the popo man can't say that "The motorcyclist might have lived, had the truck driver been using due care and attention in the operation of his vehicle."

The reason the driver did not see the motorcyclist is a simple one. He did not look for a motorcycle.

The motorcycle was there to be seen.

I guess that our shining example of road safety enforcement, must also toe the party line, vis: It is perfectly acceptable to do random u-turns into the path of traffic, and the procedural doctrine that it is ok to step into the path of a speeding vehicle provided that you are wearing a hi-vis vest.

Ocean1

6th February 2011, 18:25

No it fucking won't.

Headlights are almost invisible when viewed from an angle

What fucking angle? On the face of it the truck driver must have had any headlight fair in his face or his mirrors. Stupid statement mate.

The hi-vis vest was a 'maybe' comment, NOT a statement of fact. "Maybe IF he had been wearing a hi-vis vest he MAY have ben seen"

Again, defending your team is understandable dude, but the comment as reported is a clear indication of blame on the rider in question and by implication all riders. It’s offensive in the extreme and it’s unacceptable.

Max Preload

6th February 2011, 18:26

Vehicles don't pull u-turns without giving some clues as to their intention.While that's true, it doesn't mean you always have time to do anything about it.

I was following two cars a couple of years ago and the front car indicated and pulled over to the kerb. The car behind him went past and as I came alongside he, in one fluid motion, swung the wheel and proceeded to do a u-turn. I was in the right vehicle track and despite my fast move right he still managed to clip the very tip of the exhaust with his bumper stepping the rear of the bike sideways.

I'd challenge you to drive repeatedly down a road with a single car stopped on the side and be able to avoid a random u-turn - you won't know on which run past it's coming from. If it's timed right, you're going down.

steve_t

6th February 2011, 18:27

I'd rather they make u-turns illegal before forcing us to wear hi-vis vests. I'd put my money on it being far more effective

jrandom

6th February 2011, 18:28

What's really happening here is that someone at Police HQ is on a high-vis vest buzz.

It's filtering down inasmuch as cops don't leave their desks these days without putting one on, and it's also filtering down via these comments every time someone not wearing a high-vis is involved in a crash on the road.

When you get a memo every fortnight reminding you that if you don't put your high-vis on and something happens it's YOUR BLOODY PROBLEM, it's hard to step back from that and see anything else when you see a road crash involving a man not wearing a high-vis.

This conjecture is based on comments made by the cop who attended the crash where a taxi u-turned into me and my bicycle on Quay St a few months back.

So, y'know. Take it as you will. I don't think the cops really think it was the rider's fault. They just have high-vis vests on the brain.

Personally, I love high-vis vests, but only at sporting events. They give one the magic superpower of impersonating a marshal and bypassing closed-road barriers.

Actually wearing a high-vis when just riding around normally is gay. Also, getting hit by a u-turning vehicle is a lame way to go.

Requiescat in pace, n00b.

Ocean1

6th February 2011, 18:28

Perhaps instead of pissing your panties, you lot should realise that the comment suggests the probable introduction of wearing hi-viz as law.

Cold dead hands etc.

I'd prefer we all learned to really open our fucking eyes and turn our fucking brains on when we ride rather than being forced to wear hi-viz.

And I'd prefer that you'd fuck off and never darken our doorstep again. And I reckon my idea has more chance of saving bikers from U-turning truckies.

98tls

6th February 2011, 18:28

Perhaps instead of pissing your panties, you lot should realise that the comment suggests the probable introduction of wearing hi-viz as law.

I'd prefer we all learned to really open our fucking eyes and turn our fucking brains on when we ride rather than being forced to wear hi-viz.

Consider my "eyes open",a lamb shit yellow TL combined with "fuck i hope you see me hi- vis" :facepalm::sick:Just not going to work at all.

Ronin

6th February 2011, 18:29

I'd rather they make u-turns illegal before forcing us to wear hi-vis vests. I'd put my money on it being far more effective

And that folks is the best post in the thread.

scumdog

6th February 2011, 18:34

KB rant bus in full swing, wooo-hooo!

Berg

6th February 2011, 18:34

As I said in my other thread, we need to know the full story before passing too much judgement. My beef is the way the media always spin the story to make the biker look like the problem. Look at the way they are targeting bikers at the moment but not targeting the car drivers who never see bikes. Safety is EVERYBODIES problem

Smifffy

6th February 2011, 18:40

AD345

6th February 2011, 18:43

What's really happening here is that someone at Police HQ is on a high-vis vest buzz.

(snip)

So, y'know. Take it as you will. I don't think the cops really think it was the rider's fault. They just have high-vis vests on the brain.

(snip)
.

Zis is very true

One of our guys went down last year because he made a cock-up of an overtaking effort.

Into the ditch he goes then off to hospital.

Cop on scene was pretty good, too much practice probably, and came up to me to have a word at the hospital.

It was all goin well until............he couldn't help himself.......he looked me dead in the eye, went completely serious and, while pointing to his own Hi-Viz

"might have been different if he was wearing one of these"

Poor guy looked genuinely offended when I just burst out laughing

Mom

6th February 2011, 18:48

Press Release 8pm Sunday 6th February 2011

From: Motorcycle Action Group of NZ (MAG-NZ)

To: All

MAG-NZ are outraged that the NZ Police can issue a statement saying that had a motorcyclist killed today when a truck U-turned into his path, been wearing a Hi-Viz vest the truck driver may have seen him. The complete disregard for the family that has just lost a loved one is outrageous and the speculative comment about the lack of an item of clothing being the cause of his demise is nothing short of disgraceful.

How can any comment regarding the cause of a road death be made in such a bald way by our countries Police Force before the SCU have even had time to begin investigating the cause of the crash?

Motorcyclists are required by law to have headlights on at all times. Having a bright source of illumination in front of reflective clothing prevents the reflective clothing from reflecting light. If you miss seeing a bright headlight you are hardly likely to see a Hi-Viz vest.

RIP to the rider and condolences to his family and friends from MAG-NZ.

Ends

Anne James
President
MAG-NZ

Foxzee

6th February 2011, 18:52

awa355

6th February 2011, 18:53

Am I right in reading that up to four motorcyclists have died this weekend?

Not good.

YellowDog

6th February 2011, 18:53

Mom

6th February 2011, 19:01

Smifffy

6th February 2011, 19:05

The MSL could send out a free Hi-vis vest with every rego paid for. That should improve road safety, and maybe more bikers will live.

Of course, they won't want to send out more than one vest to owners of multiple bikes, since they can only wear one vest at a time....

:innocent:

Crasherfromwayback

6th February 2011, 19:05

I don't need a hi-viz.

I ride with my eyes open.

Vehicles don't pull u-turns without giving some clues as to their intention.

For a start, vehicles can't do u-turns without their front wheels pointing out to the right.

You're so full of shit it's not even close to funny.

Katman is right. And Drew is funny. <3

Katman is as full of shit as you are. You'd both better have incredible peripheral vision, although I will introduce myself first.

Thaeos

6th February 2011, 19:07

I agree with the rest of it but:

Having a bright source of illumination in front of reflective clothing prevents the reflective clothing from reflecting light.

Just isn't true..

Drew

6th February 2011, 19:08

No it fucking won't.

Headlights are almost invisible when viewed from an angle, hence why my bike and normajeames bike have extra spot-lights with a wide spread.

They show up waay better than just a headlight - and they have saved me more than once.

The hi-vis vest was a 'maybe' comment, NOT a statement of fact. "Maybe IF he had been wearing a hi-vis vest he MAY have ben seen"

But then again, this IS a site where straws are clutched at, myths are believed and anything said is fact....What fuckin angle? The accident happened on a straight friggin road! So as the truck veered left to make the turn the headlight of the bike would have been pointing STRAIGHT at it.

I can see how the bike wasn't seen to begin with, unless he was riding right on the white line, but for the truck driver to fail to properly look when beginning his U-turn is the root cause of the incident to my eyes.

I am however an advocate of seeing the facts before passing judgement, (like fact, Katman is a cock. I've seen it and make the judgement), and as a police officer I should think your stance would be one of no comment rather than further speculation with a complete lack there of.

What am I going to do, nothing at all. I'll keep riding illegally regularly and watching out for number one, cos it seems that no matter what I do it wont be enough to avoid blame, I might as well have fun.

awa355

6th February 2011, 19:16

I agree with the rest of it but:

Just isn't true..

Have to agree with 'Thaeos', Did a Petes Postie run a few years back. The Hi Viz jacket stands out a lot more than a headlight. Just watch a line of riders going past, the one with a vest will stand out from all the headlights.

Having said that, if a driver doesn't look, he aint ever going to see anything. If the motorcyclist had a flashing strobe light on a pole above the bike, would the truckie have seen that?? Not if he didn't turn his head and LOOK.

caseye

6th February 2011, 19:16

If Only!
Sigh, if only we could see/read the comments made, before we comment here, but hey it's KB right?
So here I go.
We are told we're a high risk group,"thats why we're charging you more" We have to beg for rider training, edcucation and resources.
Our fellow road users are KNOWN to cause the deaths of at least half of the reported motorcycle accidents, on or off road.FACT Undisputed by Nicks Myth!

They ( our fellow road users) are not in anyway educated to look for anything other than a bloody BIG TRUCK, that after all, is all that they are going to stop for, as a matter of self preservation.

I would like to know when the attending Police Officer/pseudo police officer journalist became the spokesman for the NZ Police at the scene or immediately after it and was given carte blanche to say whatever the FUCK THEY LIKE about one of those involved in an accident where some poor unfortunate was killed.
What happened to simply confining any on scene/immediately after interviews being confined to "THE FACTS".
Our Police wonder wy they get a bad rep, when they do this sort of stupid Shit.

Hi Viz to be worn by DECREE? As usual without consultation, or cooberative research, of course it will be.
mom, I hope that your press release gets to go on the Telly too.

Foxzee

6th February 2011, 19:17

Perhaps instead of pissing your panties

We don't have to now we are wearing "hi vis"...like a new tampon we are invisable with a super leak guard!

Max Preload

6th February 2011, 19:18

Press Release 8pm Sunday 6th February 2011 ...
How can any comment regarding the cause of a road death be made in such a bald way by our countries Police Force before the SCU have even had time to begin investigating the cause of the crash?Please tell me that wasn't a copy/paste...

Mom

6th February 2011, 19:21

Please tell me that wasn't a copy/paste...

Why?

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/bald

Definition 3

Smifffy

6th February 2011, 19:22

I was nearly taken out by an angry truck driver myself a few weeks back.

We were in a longish line of traffic. I had been behind him for a while, I moved into the centre of his rear view mirror, indicated, and pulled out to pass.

As I was alongside his rear trailer, and the spidey went off big time, and I bailed backwards as he swung out into my lane to overtake the cars in the line. It was a bit too close for comfort, and as I was back in my original spot I watched as he just pulled back into the line of traffic, cutting off the few cars between me and he.

Then he pulled out and repeated his stunt, while I stayed well back.

That truck driver was a very angry man, and an unmitigated cunt.

Katman

6th February 2011, 19:24

Our fellow road users are KNOWN to cause the deaths of at least half of the reported motorcycle accidents, on or off road.FACT Undisputed by Nicks Myth!

We're going to have to get our facts straight or we'll be destined to be forever seen as a laughing stock.

About 75% of fatal motorcycle accidents are the fault of the motorcyclist or the motorcyclist carries the primary responsibility.

Your post conveniently ignores the deaths and accidents that are single vehicle accidents.

Ocean1

6th February 2011, 19:24

I agree with the rest of it but:

Just isn't true..

Please tell me that wasn't a copy/paste...

You're correct. But a headlight will be far brighter than any reflected light from a vest to those in front of the bike, and your brain reacts far more to contrast than colour.

In fact some research demonstrated that the most visible colour in a suburban setting during daylight is.... Black.

jrandom

6th February 2011, 19:25

You'd both better have incredible peripheral vision, although I will introduce myself first.

<img src="http://i55.tinypic.com/a32hqp.gif"/>

scumdog

6th February 2011, 19:25

What fuckin angle? The accident happened on a straight friggin road! So as the truck veered left to make the turn the headlight of the bike would have been pointing STRAIGHT at it.

I am however an advocate of seeing the facts before passing judgement,

(a) My comment was a general one, not necessarily aimed at this particular incident. So there.

(b) It's ferkin' KB, when has 'sticking to know facts' ever been a requirement to posting here???

(c) Man, some on here over-react to any incident that doesn't paint a perfect picture when it comes to motorcycling.....this is a general comment, don't feel targetted.

Kiwi Graham

6th February 2011, 19:25

Nice effort at twisting the story Jimmy. :facepalm:

I don't need a hi-viz.

I ride with my eyes open.

Vehicles don't pull u-turns without giving some clues as to their intention.

Un-fuking believable.
Again you blame the motorcyclist!!!
Without a shred of doubt you are a complete fucking cock Steve

Berg

6th February 2011, 19:26

yachtie10

6th February 2011, 19:27

We're going to have to get our facts straight or we'll be destined to be forever seen as a laughing stock.

About 75% of fatal motorcycle accidents are the fault of the motorcyclist or the motorcyclist carries the primary responsibility.

Your post conveniently ignores the deaths and accidents that are single vehicle accidents.

why? you choose which ones you use to suit your argument

The thread is about the police/media are out of line by implying some of the blame on the motorcyclist

Ocean1

6th February 2011, 19:27

Why?

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/bald

Definition 3

Perhaps a well polished dome is the force's latest safety requirement...

Katman

6th February 2011, 19:29

Un-fuking believable.
Again you blame the motorcyclist!!!
Without a shred of doubt you are a complete fucking cock Steve

I haven't blamed anyone.

Smifffy

6th February 2011, 19:33

Always ring the company and complain when this sort of thing happens. Owners tend to take a dim view of their expensive toys being used badly. Also it is the companies name written all over the door when these acts happen. Companies don't like the bad attention.

To be honest I wanted to, but I never saw it. As I said I bailed from beside the rear trailer. I did eventually get past him, but I was too busy watching out for more of his antics, which there were, than to be reading the small blue writing on the door of his truck. Once past I kept out of his way.

I wouldn't be surprised if he was an owner/driver. He was a gravel/fert hauler or something, and was empty. I think he was probably in a hurry to get back to the depot.

98tls

6th February 2011, 19:34

Crasherfromwayback

6th February 2011, 19:38

I haven't blamed anyone.

See here you spinless fucking FAGGOT (you won't mind such language, seeing as you've called me a "whiney homo" here on KB), you've stated that a 'u' turn is always see-able!!?? That to me is very much the same as saying the poor DEAD fucking motorcyclist is partly to blame seeing as his/her skills are obviously nowhere near as good as yours.

You really do suck arse.

tri boy

6th February 2011, 19:39

KB rant bus in full swing, wooo-hooo!

The dork coppa who added the vis wearing comment started this rant.
Do you agree that he was out of line or not? Simple question.
Care to take it on?

PrincessBandit

6th February 2011, 19:45

The reason the driver did not see the motorcyclist is a simple one. He did not look for a motorcycle.

The motorcycle was there to be seen.

I said in harold (at the meeting outside the museum just before the Bikeoi) that advertising pushes attentiveness at intersections etc. but there is nothing to educate road users to look out for riders. Nothing has changed in that respect.

I'd rather they make u-turns illegal before forcing us to wear hi-vis vests. I'd put my money on it being far more effective
Like any other road rule (such as speed limits, give way rules etc.) it would still be ignored by heaps of motorists.

The MSL could send out a free Hi-vis vest with every rego paid for. That should improve road safety, and maybe more bikers will live.

Got given a hi-vis after completing my BHS course by the instructor. Wore it almost all the time initially, but tend now to only wear it in bad weather/visibility as an extra precaution to riding defensively. So although I own one, I don't wear it all the time.

scumdog

6th February 2011, 19:45

The dork coppa who added the vis wearing comment started this rant.
Do you agree that he was out of line or not? Simple question.
Care to take it on?

No wonder we don't want to say anything - a casual comment is taken as gospel and it's all-aboard the rant bus....

No, his casual comment was not out of line, possibly he wasn't motorcycle savvy, who knows?

And had the poor bugger been wearing a vest he MAY have just been seen is all I got out of the comment..nothing more

Maybe all you lot are more astute than me???

Some here are too precious...is a more likely explanation.....

Drew

6th February 2011, 19:45

(a) My comment was a general one, not necessarily aimed at this particular incident. So there.Given the heat of the thread, not your best move then.

(b) It's ferkin' KB, when has 'sticking to know facts' ever been a requirement to posting here???It hasn't, I was just saying I would much rather know than not, but generally fly off the handle anyway. In this case though I am angry and justified, feels a bit foreign to be honest.

(c) Man, some on here over-react to any incident that doesn't paint a perfect picture when it comes to motorcycling.....this is a general comment, don't feel targetted.I don't feel targeted, what was said on the news targeted the motorcyclist! That is what angers me.

Don't make me hungry, you wouldn't like me when I'm hungry!

Grahameeboy

6th February 2011, 19:47

Vehicles don't pull u-turns without giving some clues as to their intention.

Not in NZ and if they do it's a last minute thing and you would not expect a lorry to do a uturn and the driver still has to give way

Mom

6th February 2011, 19:52

Grahameeboy

6th February 2011, 19:53

No wonder we don't want to say anything - a casual comment is taken as gospel and it's all-aboard the rant bus....

No, his casual comment was not out of line, possibly he wasn't motorcycle savvy, who knows?

And had the poor bugger been wearing a vest he MAY have just been seen is all I got out of the comment..nothing more

Maybe all you lot are more astute than me???

Some here are too precious...is a more likely explanation.....

You have a point SD......however, I ride a red bike, red jacket.....twin headlights and led running lights and still seem invisible....whether I wear a yellow vest it is debatable whether I would have better experiences but you never know...I thought wearing my glow underwear over my pants would help!!!!....I think the cop's comment was a bit unfortunate but in a way he had a point but just messed up in the way he said it

Smifffy

6th February 2011, 19:53

A lot of trucks, you can't see their front wheels from behind, they have a bunch of other wheels, big boxy bits, and often a lot of those big gay mudflaps that look like they have been cut from industrial conveyor belt with chromed silhouettes of busty females on them.

Some of them also have any manner of ground effect kits that seem to have as their sole purpose the generation of maximum sidewash for the benefit of motorcyclists in the adjacent lane.

Grahameeboy

6th February 2011, 19:54

I said in harold (at the meeting outside the museum just before the Bikeoi) that advertising pushes attentiveness at intersections etc. but there is nothing to educate road users to look out for riders. Nothing has changed in that respect.

Like any other road rule (such as speed limits, give way rules etc.) it would still be ignored by heaps of motorists.

Got given a hi-vis after completing my BHS course by the instructor. Wore it almost all the time initially, but tend now to only wear it in bad weather/visibility as an extra precaution to riding defensively. So although I own one, I don't wear it all the time.

To be honest all road users should be educated to look for ALL road users...yes a bike is slim but geeze they are not invisible...

scumdog

6th February 2011, 19:56

If people can't see a big-arsed railway locomotive with a big-arsed headlight (or two) and on a fixed track how the hell are we motorcyclists ever going to be seen consistantly????:blink:

Smifffy

6th February 2011, 19:56

To be honest all road users should be educated to look for ALL road users...yes a bike is slim but geeze they are not invisible...

To be honest, if the rider is wearing any kind of camo outfit, my sympathies are with the driver who didn't see them.

DMNTD

6th February 2011, 19:58

If people can't see a big-arsed railway locomotive with a big-arsed headlight (or two) and on a fixed track how the hell are we motorcyclists ever going to be seen consistently????:blink:

So are they going to throw a fluro paint job on them?

Grahameeboy

6th February 2011, 19:58

To be honest, if the rider is wearing any kind of camo outfit, my sympathies are with the driver who didn't see them.

You "smiff" so??

Foxzee

6th February 2011, 19:58

See here you spinless fucking FAGGOT (you won't mind such language, seeing as you've called me a "whiney homo" here on KB), you've stated that a 'u' turn is always see-able!!?? That to me is very much the same as saying the poor DEAD fucking motorcyclist is partly to blame seeing as his/her skills are obviously nowhere near as good as yours.

You really do suck arse.

Agree!...+1

popelli

6th February 2011, 20:01

this i did not see him excuse has been going on forever

may be the safety nazi's could come up with something sensible ie the compulsory fitting of audible safety devices of 120db so people with deficient eyesight can hear motorcycles coming

Loud pipes save Lives

Thaeos

6th February 2011, 20:05

You're correct. But a headlight will be far brighter than any reflected light from a vest to those in front of the bike, and your brain reacts far more to contrast than colour.

In fact some research demonstrated that the most visible colour in a suburban setting during daylight is.... Black.

Black? Really? That's pretty counter-intuitive. I'd like to see the source. Wasn't there also a study that showed motorcyclists with white helmets were in less accidents than those with black ones? Pulling this out of my ass btw I have no source.

On another note, Katman is a full time troll guys. If you haven't realised this by now..

Katman

6th February 2011, 20:06

and the speculative comment about the lack of an item of clothing being the cause of his demise is nothing short of disgraceful.

But they didn't say that, did they Anne.

Smifffy

6th February 2011, 20:07

You "smiff" so??

Pardon, sorry, what?

Mom

6th February 2011, 20:08

To who enquired

Yes the press release went directly to the Police HQ.

oneofsix

6th February 2011, 20:09

this i did not see him excuse has been going on forever

Like with smoking and drink driving. Make the excuse socially unacceptable and you will see a lot less of it. Some heavy careless driving charges for every blind driver, start with some over the top penalties to get the media to take notice.

No matter what the biker does there will always be drivers that don't "see" them. Give the driver a reason to see.

Ocean1

6th February 2011, 20:09

So are they going to throw a fluro paint job on them?

Dem's pretty bright, dude.

And those lights add up to about 50 mototcycle headlights.

231181

And people still play chicken with 'em.

scumdog

6th February 2011, 20:09

So are they going to throw a fluro paint job on them?

No.

Because a crash involving a locomotive rarely results in the death of the engine driver.

BUT all cars are going to have a fluro paint job

So the train driver can see them in time to swerve around them...

pritch

6th February 2011, 20:11

They ( our fellow road users) are not in anyway educated to look for anything other than a bloody BIG TRUCK, that after all, is all that they are going to stop for, as a matter of self preservation.

Even that won't work. I saw the result of an fatality by the Kopu bridge a year or three back. A car pulled out of a gas station right into the path of a bus.

My thought at the time was, "If the fuckwits can't see a bus, we've got no show."

Hi vis vest? Yeah right!

BAD DAD

6th February 2011, 20:11

I'd rather they make u-turns illegal before forcing us to wear hi-vis vests. I'd put my money on it being far more effective
You have just read, the Voice of Reason.
If any rider here can provide evidence of infallibility, please contact me and I will lobby for you to be the next Pope.

Paul in NZ

6th February 2011, 20:12

Instead of tearing each other to shreads it would be nice to consider the families of those who have lost loved ones. Bloody bad weekend to be a motorcyclist...

Guys - you have to be careful reacting to media comments. It all gets cut up and chopped into controversial sound bites, who knows what ELSE the cop said because he doesnt get to decide what goes to air... Whats happening here is just mana from heaven for the news guys - 'Motorcyclists outraged at Police' great byline on a slow day when maybe the cop acually went on to say 'but the truck driver was 100% to blame' or anyone of a thousand things.. Dont get your tits in a tangle about it because as soon as you do - you loose the fight.

If you are genuinely concerned - email the media that ran with this - if we all do it, the message gets across, email their advertisers too... Tell em you and 10,000 of your mates and their familes are not buying their munt cos they are anti biker...

For what its worth - IMHO a hi viz vest is mostly a waste. They are usually invisible from the front and bikers are seldom hit from behind. For a while I had a while / fluro helmet and it made no difference except my bonce was cooler in the sun than with my current black one.

FFS - me and the grandsons were nearly taken out in a fuckin giant Camry sationwagon today with out lights on and two fluro kayaks on the roof and a moron STILL didnt see us and he flew across 2 lanes to occupy our bit of road and then flew back cos he changed his mind....

Point is - both side have a point. It is a bloody stupid (bordering on outrageous) statement BUT as riders, observation is our best defence against morons.... The worst possible outcome is the guy has died and we argue here? How does that help?

rwh

6th February 2011, 20:12

(b) It's ferkin' KB, when has 'sticking to know facts' ever been a requirement to posting here???

It's more about the poster than the forum. It just happens that KB seems to have a higher proportion of people who talk bullshit. Doesn't mean you have to join them.

Richard

Tony.OK

6th February 2011, 20:13

I just see it as another crack against us terribly unsafe bikers, where was the mention of "if the driver had've turned to look instead of relying on just a mirror" or "had the truck indicated" ?

Some may see the comment as just a passing remark, but thats not what the money grubbing politicians will take from it.........................."yet another biker costing us funds" is what it'll get translated into.

All I know for sure is some poor bastard got killed needlessly and that sux.

Smifffy

6th February 2011, 20:14

No.

Because a crash involving a locomotive rarely results in the death of the engine driver.

BUT all cars are going to have a fluro paint job

So the train driver can see them in time to swerve around them...

Last train crash I saw was another angry impatient truck driver who thought that he could use his "might is right" mentality to cut off the train, since he didn't want to be held up while all the wagons rolled by.

Turns out the locomotive and laden wagons were mightier.

I think I posted about it at the time, with a statement along the lines of:

If a truck driver isn't going to wait for a train, with air horn, lights and crossing bells going, what hope is there that they will wait for a motorcycle?

Ocean1

6th February 2011, 20:14

Black? Really? That's pretty counter-intuitive. I'd like to see the source. Wasn't there also a study that showed motorcyclists with white helmets were in less accidents than those with black ones? Pulling this out of my ass btw I have no source.

Can't find it, was fairly recent. The reason given was, again contrast, if the environment is all colourful then an interupt in that, (particularly a moving one) is more noticable. The white helmet thing is correct: http://www.motorcyclesafetyinfo.com/motorcycle_rider_conspicuity_study.html But here they find fluro vests more to advantage.

geoffm

6th February 2011, 20:15

Your post conveniently ignores the deaths and accidents that are single vehicle accidents.
and of course a hi - vis vest will make a lot of difference to them...

Having worn a hi vis vest daily in auckland traffic, I can assure you it makes no difference at all.
Geoff

Grahameeboy

6th February 2011, 20:17

If people can't see a big-arsed railway locomotive with a big-arsed headlight (or two) and on a fixed track how the hell are we motorcyclists ever going to be seen consistantly????:blink:

Didn't know you had new wheels

rwh

6th February 2011, 20:18

No, his casual comment was not out of line, possibly he wasn't motorcycle savvy, who knows?

And had the poor bugger been wearing a vest he MAY have just been seen is all I got out of the comment..nothing more

How about "If she hadn't been wearing such a short skirt, she may not have been attacked"

Would that one be out of line? Or would that be a quite normal Police comment?

Richard

carver

6th February 2011, 20:20

i do u turns in my truck real quick, and 2 of em are quite long...
mirrors on trucks can be shit too, the nissan PK is shocking really...

scumdog

6th February 2011, 20:20

How about "If she hadn't been wearing such a short skirt, she may not have been attacked"

Would that one be out of line? Or would that be a quite normal Police comment?

Richard

Piss off, it's not the same and you know it (I hope)!

I guess some would criticise the comment "If he had been wearing a seatbelt he may not have been killed" too??

Grahameeboy

6th February 2011, 20:20

Pardon, sorry, what?

No...how when what

jrandom

6th February 2011, 20:20

How about "If she hadn't been wearing such a short skirt, she may not have been attacked"

Would that one be out of line?

Whether in or out of line, it'd still be true in many cases.

Or would that be a quite normal Police comment?

Of course not. Quite a normal private Police thought, though, one suspects.

Grahameeboy

6th February 2011, 20:21

Piss off, it's not the same and you know it (I hope)!

I guess some would criticise the comment "If he had been wearing a seatbelt he may not have been killed" too??

Don't assume anything on KB SD

Voltaire

6th February 2011, 20:23

Smifffy

6th February 2011, 20:24

No...how when what

Oh, gotcha.

Right you are then. :blink: :blink: :facepalm:

Foxzee

6th February 2011, 20:25

Right we have heard the view of MAG which is great..do we have a view from BRONZ or more to the point do we on here have a spokes person from our "New Action Group"....this debate is one that needs to be considered and taken seriously...we now have three action groups working for us...instead of moaning post the positive and stand by your comments...

Mom

6th February 2011, 20:31

Even that won't work. I saw the result of an fatality by the Kopu bridge a year or three back. A car pulled out of a gas station right into the path of a bus.

My thought at the time was, "If the fuckwits can't see a bus, we've got no show."

Hi vis vest? Yeah right!

Far canal, I was there at the time, what a shocker. I looked after the children that were in the car.

rwh

6th February 2011, 20:32

Piss off, it's not the same and you know it (I hope)!

They're both instances of your fate being influenced by what you choose to wear.

I can see some differences, yes. Obviously the sexual attack is a deliberate choice, rather than negligence, and was the result of being noticed rather than not being noticed.

Whether those differences affect the argument is something else. Perhaps you'd like to comment further?

I guess some would criticise the comment "If he had been wearing a seatbelt he may not have been killed" too??

The seatbelt is a legal requirement, in most cases.

Choice of fashion isn't.

Richard

bogan

6th February 2011, 20:32

Guys - you have to be careful reacting to media comments. It all gets cut up and chopped into controversial sound bites, who knows what ELSE the cop said because he doesnt get to decide what goes to air... Whats happening here is just mana from heaven for the news guys - 'Motorcyclists outraged at Police' great byline on a slow day when maybe the cop acually went on to say 'but the truck driver was 100% to blame' or anyone of a thousand things.. Dont get your tits in a tangle about it because as soon as you do - you loose the fight.

But the public don't know what he was going to say either, and they are the ones who need to know even if a biker isn't wearing high vis, you still have to look for them.

scumdog

6th February 2011, 20:40

The seatbelt is a legal requirement, in most cases.

Choice of fashion isn't.

Richard

Pfft, since when has 'legal requirement' been of importance on KB??:blink:

rwh

6th February 2011, 20:46

Pfft, since when has 'legal requirement' been of importance on KB??:blink:

How does KB affect what is a useful angle of argument? Other than the ability to ignore it by changing the subject, I guess.

Richard

Maha

6th February 2011, 20:47

But the public don't know what he was going to say either, and they are the ones who need to know even if a biker isn't wearing high vis, you still have to look for them.

That is it in a nutshell bogan. Anyone who saw the item will probably say '' there ya go, if he had wearing a hi-viz he could still be alive''....that must be true, a cop said it.

davebullet

6th February 2011, 20:48

The truck driver WASN'T LOOKING. What the fuck is a vest going to do if someone WASN'T LOOKING.

Stormer

6th February 2011, 20:49

As has been stated before:
Soon we will all be made to wear your " hi viz" bloody jackets, have flashing lights on top of our helmets, and that annoying "beep, beep, beep..." beeper like on forklifts whenever in motion.
Just bend over and take it!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh, and don`t ever, like, speed...
Take it to the race track...
Watch every cars front wheel direction...
Use the search function...

Someone, somewhere, long ago said this place was like Coronation Street.
Ain`t that the truth.

NONONO

6th February 2011, 20:49

Making a U-turn

You are normally allowed to make U-turns, as long as the road is clear in both directions and it is safe to do so. Make sure you have enough room to complete the turn and don't create a hazard for oncoming vehicles.

You aren't allowed to make U-turns if a 'No U-turn' sign is displayed.
Making a turn over a no-passing line

You can cross over the solid yellow no-passing line (if it is safe to do so) when making a turn to enter a driveway or side road.

However, bear in mind that no-passing lines are often marked where visibility is limited, so special care is required. It may be safer to turn further along the road, where visibility is better. See Passing for more information about no-passing lines.

Sorry I see nothing in the road code bout Hi Viz Vests.
RIP that rider, taken out by another shit, and that shit defended by Katman...what a fking farce and a tragedy.

scumdog

6th February 2011, 20:50

That is it in a nutshell bogan. Anyone who saw the item will probably say '' there ya go, if he had wearing a hi-viz he could still be alive''....that must be true, a cop said it.

And my real name is Dangle John and I'm a cop.
So it must be true.....:shutup:

Maha

6th February 2011, 20:52

And my real name is Dangle John and I'm a cop.
So it must be true.....:shutup:

Your argument finished back a page post at #103.....:facepalm:

davebullet

6th February 2011, 20:52

And my real name is Dangle John and I'm a cop.
So it must be true.....:shutup:

The problem is a good chunk of society are sheep who follow and believe everything they hear. News people do research and are authorative, right? They wouldn't tell us lies, why would they?

scumdog

6th February 2011, 20:54

The truck driver WASN'T LOOKING. What the fuck is a vest going to do if someone WASN'T LOOKING.

Gee, the truck driver has almost been forgotten about in this 'lets bash the cop for saying a really naughty thing' thread,:shit:

Katman

6th February 2011, 20:55

and that shit defended by Katman

I haven't defended anyone.

Smifffy

6th February 2011, 20:56

And my real name is Dangle John and I'm a cop.
So it must be true.....:shutup:

I'm sure that if you said that to a member of the NZ media who didn't know you, it would be reported as "Officer Dangle John of the NZ Riviera Police had said that he greatly enjoys winding up drongos....."

NONONO

6th February 2011, 20:57

I give up with you, you have no idea what you are saying anymore..

Smifffy

6th February 2011, 21:00

Gee, the truck driver has almost been forgotten about in this 'lets bash the cop for saying a really naughty thing' thread,:shit:

The truck driver was forgotten when the Police spokesperson said that the rider may have lived had he been wearing a hi-vis vest.

The truck driver was forgotten in the rush to pin blame for the tragic event on the motorcyclist.

Unfortunately there are some tonight somewhere who will never be able to forget a loved one, nor what a proselytizing policeman considers to be the greatest contributor to his demise.

Taz

6th February 2011, 21:00

Whats this MagNZ thing?

carver

6th February 2011, 21:02

Very sad to hear this news. U turns should be banned as I see them nearly every day on my commmute and usually at really stupid places.
I slowed right down the other day as this idiot was doing a u turn just after a roundabout as he missed the turn....was he angry at me slowing down to press home the point.
BAN U TURNS.

haha, good luck....

All road works, STMS, Pilot, Mowing, service, and surveying vehicles would have a tough time

oh, and highway patrol officers on a bloodlust rush to chase down bikers and bust em

Mom

6th February 2011, 21:04

Whats this MagNZ thing?

www.mag-nz.org

JATZ

6th February 2011, 21:04

Gee, the truck driver has almost been forgotten about in this 'lets bash the cop for saying a really naughty thing' thread,:shit:

:yes: What about the mr glaucoma driving the truck ? He wasn't an ex cop who used to patrol the Buller gorge was he ?

At least they didn't blame speed on the part of the m/cyclist

Kendog

6th February 2011, 21:07

I haven't blamed anyone.

I haven't defended anyone.

Maybe not, but you have once again shown your inability to get your point (if you have one) across without pissing people off.
Are you a politician?

Usarka

6th February 2011, 21:07

All part of the plan to make hi-vis compulsory.

James Deuce

6th February 2011, 21:15

I agree with the rest of it but:

Just isn't true..

Depends on time of day. Dawn and dusk, the headlight glare hides the bike and body and while the colour is more visible in daylight with light from all directions, in low light situations like heavy rain or overcast your eyes see the glare and not much colour if any.

caseye

6th February 2011, 21:18

Voltaire

6th February 2011, 21:26

haha, good luck....

All road works, STMS, Pilot, Mowing, service, and surveying vehicles would have a tough time

oh, and highway patrol officers on a bloodlust rush to chase down bikers and bust em

Three Point Turns....or have they been phased out now steering locks have improved...?

Tink

6th February 2011, 21:32

I can't read all POSTS BUT'

I found out cause my sister who lives 5 min from the accident, rang me at 9am to make sure we were not the fatality... (we pass that way all the time) I scare my family all the time riding my bike.. both of them.

mom good words

RIP and condolences to the family... and I prey that the truck driver does makes better choices on a road that is known for accidents.

Please note people this place is a high accident spot for all types of vehicles... not just bikes...

jimbo600

6th February 2011, 21:35

I don't need a hi-viz.

I ride with my eyes open.

Now it aint often I chime in on here cos of all the r'tards. But you, Katman, are a complete cocksickle.

What the fuck is your malfunction cuntox. Honestly, why don't you just fuck right off.

CHR1S

6th February 2011, 21:38

Wonder if Katman's aware that at the back of EVERYONE'S eye is an optic nerve.

This 'gap' where the optic nerve leaves the retina for the brain creates a blind spot. Yes even Katman has one (the optic nerve that is...maybe not the brain) so no matter how open you think your eyes are, or how awesome a rider you think you are, there's still an area of vision that provided you are human, you WILL NOT see a potential hazard.

We've all heard how you feel that we should take more responsibility for OUR own defensive riding. I largely agree with you, however show some respect for the victim's families. Karma can be a bitch buddy.

Usarka

6th February 2011, 21:40

How the fuck can someone with 95 demerit points harp on about identifying hazards without being a right hypocrite?

I hope the riders family aren't reading this thread.

Katman

6th February 2011, 21:49

This 'gap' where the optic nerve leaves the retina for the brain creates a blind spot. Yes even Katman has one (the optic nerve that is...maybe not the brain) so no matter how open you think your eyes are, or how awesome a rider you think you are, there's still an area of vision that provided you are human, you WILL NOT see a potential hazard.

And that's one of the reasons your eyes need to be moving all the time - to eliminate the effect of that blind spot.

monkeymcbean

6th February 2011, 21:49

Will have mine in black ta.:facepalm:

Awwha, yeah hiz viz green will look shite with a yellow bike, mines yellow too, i reckon the hiz viz pink will be okay thou....looks like there will only be two colours to choose from :wings:.
In reality I hate high viz vests, if I had to wear one I would, I like my bike riding.
Until then I try to wear plain bold contrasting colours (not to much pattern), have high intensity discharge light kit, and ride defensively to the best of my ability.

Fluffy Cat

6th February 2011, 21:51

I wear a Technics high vis jacket, white helmet and ride a bright orange 990 ktm(that you can't turn the lights off).
I still seem to be completely invisible to car drivers?. Though the police do see me and stop me as often as possible to check my rego.
Twas a dumb thing to say and reminds me of the self righteousness shown at the Buller Gorge incident, when the cop told the severely injured rider...he was speeding!.

CHR1S

6th February 2011, 21:53

Correct....and by accumulating 95 demerit points you are obviously not looking around enough yourself.

Katman

6th February 2011, 21:53

Twas a dumb thing to say and reminds me of the self righteousness shown at the Buller Gorge incident, when the cop told the severely injured rider...he was speeding!.

And interestingly enough, one of the motorcyclists admitted on a radio interview after the court case that they were, in fact, speeding.

Brian d marge

6th February 2011, 21:55

The police report on I could find doesn't give any details

so

It was his time to go , and I would wish that on me worst enemy ( wife maybe ) but never on another human being

Moving away from this case to driving in general , couple of points

a light truck Mitzi canter? how in the good name of the man upstairs do u hit one of those

a u turn? forget the witch hunt , think about the logistics of hitting a small truck

you know deep in your heart the answer ,

The answer from the police , well not very responsible , but as has been said some people can hit a train ( and the speed of a NZ train is?? ours do 300 km/h 100 on a branch line with level crossing ,,,and you lot seem to be better at hitting them !) so a hi viz ,while it MAY have helped is just pure speculation ( if it prevents another accident then it may have been helpful ..)

My suggestion .. just a suggestion , loose the I'm an important individual mentality ( i m right your wrong ) and just let other road users ,,,( why am I bothering , you ll never understand it anyway ,,,,,,) just let the other road users do what they want to do , read the traffic ,,and life will be sweet ,,,

Have a think ,

we are all just as bad , and my deepest sympathies go towards both the rider and the driver ,

before I sign off , and before you reach for the sanctimonious shit button , I have done the same thing , double decker bus , I DIDN'T see it and pulled out in front , broke its headlight , and I accelerated past the Enterprise faster than my wife get to the bank on pay day

Stephen

Drew

6th February 2011, 22:05

Gee, the truck driver has almost been forgotten about in this 'lets bash the cop for saying a really naughty thing' thread,:shit:The thread was started to point out the stupid statement on the news. Not the truck drivers visual impairments.

And interestingly enough, one of the motorcyclists admitted on a radio interview after the court case that they were, in fact, speeding.Yep, and I know the person the cop was doing a u-turn to chase. He was speeding too, but the cop did a u-ee on a blind corner, 15-30km/h was not gonna avoid that crash.

Smifffy

6th February 2011, 22:08

And interestingly enough, one of the motorcyclists admitted on a radio interview after the court case that they were, in fact, speeding.

Interestingly enough, that ex-cop was disqualified for drink driving. He should never have been allowed to operate a motor vehicle, much less one equipped with disco lights.

Katman

6th February 2011, 22:09

Interestingly enough, that ex-cop was disqualified for drink driving. He should never have been allowed to operate a motor vehicle, much less one equipped with disco lights.

He was still right about the speeding though. :msn-wink:

Fluffy Cat

6th February 2011, 22:10

And interestingly enough, one of the motorcyclists admitted on a radio interview after the court case that they were, in fact, speeding.

Yep, I was speeding the other day...51kph in a 50 zone....
Your point?......

Naki Rat

6th February 2011, 22:16

monkeymcbean

6th February 2011, 22:16

Given the heat of the thread.

That is what angers me.

Don't make me hungry, you wouldn't like me when I'm hungry!

Gosh! these words and energy expressed here similar to other posts, should not be wasted in a internet blog site, but taken and fronted up to the people like the media who choose to selectively repeat what they think will sensationalise a event/accident.
ACC, government ministers, we might make a difference by acting, instead of getting angry behind a computer screen.

avgas

6th February 2011, 22:19

- Hi Viz would not have prevented the crash
- Cops are simple humans. Trust them as much as you trust a politician.
- The truck driver is going to feel like shit
- The family will feel like shit
- Who does a u-turn in front of a truck?
- Which lesson is more valid here?

Always where hi-viz incase a truck hits you
or
Never trust what a cop says?
or
Don't u-turn in front of a truck?????

I know what I won't be doing from now on

\m/

6th February 2011, 22:21

Headlights are more visible than hi-vis vests, I can see headlights from a few kms, but can't see what the rider is wearing until they get to a few hundred metres from me, the police haven't got a fucking clue. Also, Twatman is a fucking hypocrite, with 95 demerits he obviosly doesn't practice what he preaches.

Katman

6th February 2011, 22:22

Drew

6th February 2011, 22:22

Gosh! these words and energy expressed here similar to other posts, should not be wasted in a internet blog site, but taken and fronted up to the people like the media who choose to selectively repeat what they think will sensationalise a event/accident.
ACC, government ministers, we might make a difference by acting, instead of getting angry behind a computer screen.

Trust me, I hide behind fuck all, 's why I don't use a pseudonym.

I am as energetic in my view nomatter the stage.

But putting me in front of the media, or minister only creates a negative headline. Something along the lines of..."Angered motorcyclist lashes out at public figure". Not the generally accept productive kinda thing.

baptist

6th February 2011, 22:23

Vehicles don't pull u-turns without giving some clues as to their intention.

I try to be observant but I am sure you cannot see everything all the time...

If the truck driver had looked the crash would certainly have been avoided.

So true.

My prayers are with the riders family and friends at this terrible time, and for the truck driver, they will all live with this for life (asuming the truck driver has a conscience)

As for the cops comment....:facepalm: engage brain before selecting mouth.

Katman

6th February 2011, 22:23

Also, Twatman is a fucking hypocrite, with 95 demerits he obviosly doesn't practice what he preaches.

What exactly is it that you think I'm preaching?

avgas

6th February 2011, 22:24

The thread was started to point out the stupid statement on the news. Not the truck drivers visual impairments.
Because Cops always say the most wonderful things?

Seriously though.
a) You care what the news says? and
b) You care what a cop thinks?

jafar

6th February 2011, 22:26

steve_t

6th February 2011, 22:26

[/FONT] Don't u-turn in front of a truck?????[/I]

I think you might have your wires crossed a little :shutup:

avgas

6th February 2011, 22:28

Headlights are more visible than hi-vis vests
They are also directional things charlie, a headlight is as good as a glow in the dark tampon if its going the wrong direction.
This is why Hi-Viz is good on a work site.

I dislike Hi-Viz as it looks too much like a road cone, and drivers some bizarre tendency to hit road cones.......

Smifffy

6th February 2011, 22:29

I think you might have your wires crossed a little :shutup:

Yeah - next it will be "Sorry mate I didn't see your post"

:facepalm:

Spearfish

6th February 2011, 22:31

avgas

6th February 2011, 22:32

I think you might have your wires crossed a little :shutup:
Ah that you are right - thats the prob when you try and read 3 pages of posts in 30 seconds....

So I have changed todays lesson to

"Look out for big turning things! or things that could hit you"

Did the truck indicate for 3 seconds? 1 second?
Did it turn its wheels?
Last time I check they don't exactly change lanes in 2 seconds. So a U-turn would not really happen in less than 4. I can slow down in that time.

monkeymcbean

6th February 2011, 22:34

Trust me, I hide behind fuck all, 's why I don't use a pseudonym.

I am as energetic in my view nomatter the stage.

But putting me in front of the media, or minister only creates a negative headline. Something along the lines of..."Angered motorcyclist lashes out at public figure". Not the generally accept productive kinda thing.

Im not really pointing to you, but this is what I think when I look at this site is alot of this energy is wasted.
ha ha....there is nothing wrong with a 'angered biker', it makes people sit up and take notice, the French bikers as small and short as they are a force to be reckoned with if they have something to say, though there is alot of them!
We just need more bikers out there on the roads.:yes:

avgas

6th February 2011, 22:36

The only thing that is KNOWN is that one rider is dead & one truck driver is having a really bad day.
And this is the sad truth in the matter

Mystic13

6th February 2011, 22:57

Katman

1/ if so many people are taking your comments a certain way and have a certain view of you at some point it might be an idea to take a breather, do a bit of self reflection because I wonder if by trying to make the point in the way you're doing is actually having the reverse effect.

2/ I kind of expect a level of language and behaviour from a moderator and it seems, for me, that you're outside of that level of expectation. Personally if I was moderating I'd be moderating some of your posts.

3/ There is a lot of speculation on here and we don't know the facts. A U turning vehicle implies a level of blame in one direction.

Sure if the rider was 3 seconds slower or faster, or if he took a different road or wore a hi viz vest or had a cage around him or he had a puncture etc he may be here.

Seems to me the question was "is the cops reported comment okay?". Had this been a cyclist without a hi viz vest what would be the deal?

Should someone lay a complaint with the police to check what the cop actually said and if it is as reported then deal to this bias within the police.

I'm guessing the cop was well intentioned. But with car crashes you could argue that if they had worn a helmet they'd be okay.

We do need language from police addressing the cause and a statement saying if the motorist had been looking for bikes the rider may not have died. This will create an awareness amongst motorists as is happening with cyclists.

Until you make statements that increase awareness as is going on with bicycles at the moment the 1.5m signs, the watch out for bikes stuff and etc then the problem will increase in all likelihood.

There is a anti bike culture within the police that may be unintentional. The language being used is problematic for rider safety. In my opinion police, ACC and the government are increasing the risk of injury to riders by the use of this language.

This use of language needs to stop.

The danger with the reported statement is that many go "yeah, he wasn't wearing a vest" .... then when they see riders without vests they go " bloody idiot" and become more aggressive to the rider and less tolerant of the rider. And lets face it kiwis can get pretty aggressive defending their view of right and wrong. This shows in the don't let them pass me mentality. Or I'll drive slow in the outside lane, or closing the gap when people indicate etc.

We all have these experiences. Today I had a car change lane and move into me. No indicator. I tooted the horn and he looked at me and just kept coming. He seemed to have the view, you're smaller, you'll move.

Or was it the view "you #@$, you're not wearing a hi viz vest you deserve to be run over".

The only hi viz vest I'd think would work would be the one with a giant "S" in a triangle on the front that withstands bullets.

Goodnight.

Katman

6th February 2011, 22:59

2/ I kind of expect a level of language and behaviour from a moderator and it seems, for me, that you're outside of that level of expectation. Personally if I was moderating I'd be moderating some of your posts.

Read my lips......

I ain't a fucking moderator.

Grasshopperus

6th February 2011, 23:18

Katman

2/ I kind of expect a level of language and behaviour from a moderator and it seems, for me, that you're outside of that level of expectation. Personally if I was moderating I'd be moderating some of your posts.

I don't expect information to be censored just because someone else doesn't like it.

I liked what you wrote after the Katman bashing.

Brian d marge

6th February 2011, 23:32

lifes a bitch when we we realise we are wrong

Sux bals big time ....:facepalm:

Stephen

DangerMouseNZ

7th February 2011, 01:51

*sits on the fence*

I have ridden with a Hi-Viz on and have had some appalling things happen (One instance, I made eye contact with a woman sat at a T junction and she still pulled out in front of me :facepalm: ). Like wise, I have driven a big van and, without the rear view mirror, there is a massive gap at the back of the van that a bike could very easily get lost in regardless of a hi-vis.

I don't think making Hi-Vis's legal would make any difference.. likewise, I don't think we can straight out blame the cops for using a very sad moment to remind all of us in the bike community that we need to investigate every angle to make ourselves more visible to the nutters out there who aren't very observant!!

That or make every single nut job ride a motorbike for a week... that would teach them lol

Elysium

7th February 2011, 03:48

Vehicles don't pull u-turns without giving some clues as to their intention.

Seriously wtf mate!?

tri boy

7th February 2011, 06:04

Read my lips......

I ain't a fucking moderator.

But you are the all knowing wank stain of KB.
Glow in the glory buddy.

beama

7th February 2011, 06:26

Read my lips......

I ain't a fucking moderator.

Oh please, I think we all say thank you for that small fact

PrincessBandit

7th February 2011, 06:39

The police report on I could find doesn't give any details

so

It was his time to go , and I would wish that on me worst enemy ( wife maybe ) but never on another human being

Moving away from this case to driving in general , couple of points

........
you know deep in your heart the answer ,

The answer from the police , well not very responsible , but as has been said some people can hit a train........

My suggestion .. just a suggestion , loose the I'm an important individual mentality ( i m right your wrong ) and just let other road users ,,,( why am I bothering , you ll never understand it anyway ,,,,,,) just let the other road users do what they want to do , read the traffic ,,and life will be sweet ,,,

Have a think ,

we are all just as bad , and my deepest sympathies go towards both the rider and the driver ,

before I sign off , and before you reach for the sanctimonious shit button , I have done the same thing , double decker bus , I DIDN'T see it and pulled out in front , broke its headlight , and I accelerated past the Enterprise faster than my wife get to the bank on pay day

Stephen

I'm sorry, try again - not enough vitriol in your post to make it worthy of the acid-slinging going on here. :msn-wink:
For all that the OP was apparently aimed at the Police comment there is an awful lot of sledging going on between us. The pollies and Police will be sitting back laughing all the way to the bank (oops, sorry Stephen - not intended to steal from your last line which I quoted) to see us shred each other out of existence. The infighting is so bad that the old "divide and conquer" strategy is working a treat.

Look. Another rider was killed. Yes it is a tragedy; yes his family and friends will be grieving; yes the truck driver is probably devastated as well; yes we can place blame all we want but it will not stop these things from happening again. Do you think every motorists who hits the road goes out with the intention of killing someone? (And yes I am aware that there are an extreme few who do just that, I'm talking about the everyday Joe who is going about their normal business as opposed to nutjobs or suicides who take someone else out in the execution of their suicide). Of course not! We all yabber on here about "ride like every other road user is out to kill you" - does it stop all of us from dying on the road? NO.

How about we all take a deep breath, and be reminded by this awful event that WE - you and me - have much to be thankful for each day; that WE can still see our loved ones and tell them how much they mean to us, that WE can still enjoy whatever our lives are. All this shit slinging and venom is not going to do one scrap of good.

pzkpfw

7th February 2011, 06:49

Look. Another rider was killed. Yes it is a tragedy; yes his family and friends will be grieving; yes the truck driver is probably devastated as well; yes we can place blame all we want but it will not stop these things from happening again. Do you think every motorists who hits the road goes out with the intention of killing someone? (And yes I am aware that there are an extreme few who do just that, I'm talking about the everyday Joe who is going about their normal business as opposed to nutjobs or suicides who take someone else out in the execution of their suicide). Of course not! We all yabber on here about "ride like every other road user is out to kill you" - does it stop all of us from dying on the road? NO.

You are totally correct, but people are merely reacting to what they perceive as something which might be answered as:

Look. Another rider was killed. Yes it is a tragedy; yes his family and friends will be grieving; yes the truck driver is probably devastated as well; yes we can place blame all we want but it will not stop these things from happening again. Do you think every motorcyclist who hits the road goes out with the intention of killing themselves? (And yes I am aware that there are an extreme few who do just that, I'm talking about the everyday Joe who is going about their normal business as opposed to nutjobs or suicides who take someone else out in the execution of their suicide). Of course not! We all yabber on here about "ride like every other road user is out to kill you" - does it stop all of us from dying on the road? NO.

scumdog

7th February 2011, 07:03

Best thread for a long time for making me piss myself:woohoo:

I sell knicker-untwisting kits if any of the posters on this thread want to buy one. (Trust me, some of you need a whole carton of them):yes:

DMNTD

7th February 2011, 07:04

Dem's pretty bright, dude.

And those lights add up to about 50 mototcycle headlights.

231181

And people still play chicken with 'em.

Yet people still have accident with them (f'knows how :facepalm:).
Have commuted in Dorkland's rush hour traffic wearing a fluro for some time and the ONLY time it appeared to help was at night due to its reflective strips.

Paul in NZ

7th February 2011, 07:23

Perhaps this accident may have been avoided if the driver was wearing a hi viz vest or two?

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/4624062/Bad-timing-as-police-cars-collide

Crazy Steve

7th February 2011, 07:30

seem to have pulled the video from their website.:yes:

This isn't the first time they have been hung out to dry for their biased & inflammatory reporting.:angry:

Mabey the cop was quoted out of context,
Mabey the rider was looking to the right when the truck moved from his left.
Mabey the truck driver didn't look well enough.

Too many mabey's in there for me, I'll be interested to see what the SCU have to say on the incident.

The only thing that is KNOWN is that one rider is dead & one truck driver is having a really bad day.

Oh you call that a truck ? ?

I thought to be a truck you would at less need your Class 2 to drive it..

That Vehicle involved you would only need your Class 1 to drive.

It's a Real shame about the rider and I hope it isn't anyone that I know..:angry:

Crazy Steve.

Crazy Steve

7th February 2011, 07:32

Perhaps this accident may have been avoided if the driver was wearing a hi viz vest or two?

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/4624062/Bad-timing-as-police-cars-collide

That accident could of been avoided if the Police Man didn't have his hand on his partners Cock ! !

Crazy Steve.

Pixie

7th February 2011, 07:40

I don't need a hi-viz.

I ride with my eyes open.

Eyes open will do fuck all when they turn just after you pass their rear axle,my friend.

scumdog

7th February 2011, 07:43

Perhaps this accident may have been avoided if the driver was wearing a hi viz vest or two?

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/4624062/Bad-timing-as-police-cars-collide

While looking at that I discovered an article on fatal motorbike crash near Herbetville, a bike-only crash through a fence into trees.

A bad day for the 56 year old Upper Hutt rider.

NOT on topic I know but nobody else seemed to notice it.

Paul in NZ

7th February 2011, 07:52

While looking at that I discovered an article on fatal motorbike crash near Herbetville, a bike-only crash through a fence into trees.

A bad day for the 56 year old Upper Hutt rider.

NOT on topic I know but nobody else seemed to notice it.

There was a bad one in Wanganui as well... Not a good weekend at all.

I'm growing to dislike monday mornings - always a lot of bad news about.

miloking

7th February 2011, 07:53

Perhaps this accident may have been avoided if the driver was wearing a hi viz vest or two?

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/4624062/Bad-timing-as-police-cars-collide

I like the typical "covering our asses" statement:

"The initial indication is that speed isn't an issue and that both were travelling under the speed limit."

If it was two motorcyclists it woult probably be something like :The initial indication is that extreme speed & not wearing hi-viz was issue and that both criminal riders were under influence of something but we dont know what yet".

Fuck i hate these media spokesman "policing managers" faggots..

scumdog

7th February 2011, 07:57

I like the typical "covering our asses" statement:

"The initial indication is that speed isn't an issue and that both were travelling under the speed limit."

If it was two motorcyclists it woult probably be something like :The initial indication is that extreme speed & not wearing hi-viz was issue and that both criminal riders were under influence of something but we dont know what yet".

Fuck i hate these media spokesman "policing managers" faggots..

Mwahahaha, another knicker-twisting incident...:clap::laugh::lol:

miloking

7th February 2011, 08:02

Mwahahaha, another knicker-twisting incident...:clap::laugh::lol:

Serves you right:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/4624594/Three-more-police-officers-bashed-in-Dunedin

...street justice i guess? :)

Its actualy good people stand up to your bulshit sometimes..

rustic101

7th February 2011, 08:06

Well thirteen pages later...My mothers words resonate in my mind..

"Son, believe half of what you see and nothing of what you read or hear"

With respect to the media reporting and KB posts, I reckon she's bang on with her wise words....

Thoughts go out to All the families of the riders killed or injured this past weekend.

scumdog

7th February 2011, 08:06

Serves you right:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/4624594/Three-more-police-officers-bashed-in-Dunedin

...street justice i guess? :)

Its actualy good people stand up to your bulshit sometimes..

Ah, actually it's 'bullshit' - with two L's, as in actually.
And I suspect it's 'bad people' that you really mean.
Glad to help.

Pixie

7th February 2011, 08:12

Spearfish

7th February 2011, 08:16

Serves you right:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/4624594/Three-more-police-officers-bashed-in-Dunedin

...street justice i guess? :)

Its actualy good people stand up to your bulshit sometimes..

How does that "serve him right"?
Seriously, think about it, how?

Milo, with that statement you sound like everything you hate, but that's not unusual, most here seem to do the same thing as well.

Smifffy

7th February 2011, 08:17

Well, without delving further into the cop bashing stuff, I think that what is at issue in the OP is that it was inappropriate for the officer quoted to speculate that the rider may not have perished had he been wearing a high vis vest.

Being a Sunday it was always going to make for a good sound-bite for lazy journalists.

The question is "what can be done to address it?"

I really don't think that such speculation is very helpful in improving road safety or encouraging compliance and co-operation from motorcyclists, as evidenced by this thread.

rustic101

7th February 2011, 08:18

And the the prize for the best response to the Policeman's comment goes to:

" And the cop who was killed while deploying road spikes last year was a dumb cunt and an irresponsible road user because he was not wearing a Hi-Vis Vest.The fleeing driver should be commended for bringing his failings to public attention"

I take extreme offence to this post -

I knew Derek well and am still very good friends with Bronwyn. I find this post in very bad taste.

Kickaha

7th February 2011, 08:25

How the fuck can someone with 95 demerit points harp on about identifying hazards without being a right hypocrite?

Depends on what he got them for? demerits don't necessarily mean he was doing anything unsafe, unless of course you believe the whole speed kills

While looking at that I discovered an article on fatal motorbike crash near Herbetville, a bike-only crash through a fence into trees.

A bad day for the 56 year old Upper Hutt rider.

NOT on topic I know but nobody else seemed to notice it.

Quiet you, we don't like to acknowledge single bike accidents happen

James Deuce

7th February 2011, 08:28

I take extreme offence to this post -

I knew Derek well and am still very good friends with Bronwyn. I find this post in very bad taste.

Good. Now you know how that motorcyclist's family feels.

avgas

7th February 2011, 08:28

Its actualy good people stand up to your bulshit sometimes..
Yeah
go the mongrel mob.....

whatever

Smifffy

7th February 2011, 08:30

Depends on what he got them for? demerits don't necessarily mean he was doing anything unsafe, unless of course you believe the whole speed kills

I think that the suggestion was that the enforcement method employed, be it camera or officer, should be considered a hazard, and if our dear correspondent had been riding with eyes open on the constant watch for hazards, then he would have been able to see the perceived hazard in sufficient time to react accordingly, thereby saving himself the pain of collecting the demerits.

Sometimes shit just happens.

rustic101

7th February 2011, 08:31

Good. Now you know how that motorcyclist's family feels.

A question? At what point in time ever, including replying to your crash, have I ever disrespected a 'downed' rider or their family?

Katman

7th February 2011, 08:33

I think that the suggestion was that the enforcement method employed, be it camera or officer, should be considered a hazard, and if our dear correspondent had been riding with eyes open on the constant watch for hazards, then he would have been able to see the perceived hazard in sufficient time to react accordingly, thereby saving himself the pain of collecting the demerits.

Sometimes shit just happens.

Yeah, except that a cop hiding on the side of the road with a laser gun isn't exactly a safety hazard, is it?

Whynot

7th February 2011, 08:37

Slightly off topic, but can you lot stop quoting Katman?
It kindof defeats the purpose of the ignore function ....

miloking

7th February 2011, 08:39

How does that "serve him right"?
Seriously, think about it, how?

Milo, with that statement you sound like everything you hate, but that's not unusual, most here seem to do the same thing as well.

Since you want me to clarify, .... the serves "you" is mean for all police in general, it was just "counter-troll" for scummy and not to be taken seriously by intelligent reader.

Smifffy

7th February 2011, 08:41

Yeah, except that a cop hiding on the side of the road with a laser gun isn't exactly a safety hazard, is it?

As I said, the suggestion was that it should be considered one. That's up to an individuals judgment I guess.

Some might consider that a truck parked on the side of the road, out of the carriageway is not a hazard either.

Katman

7th February 2011, 08:43

Some might consider that a truck parked on the side of the road, out of the carriageway is not a hazard either.

Then that would be a pretty silly assumption - considering that even if parked with no-one in it, it could still be concealing a hazard.

Smifffy

7th February 2011, 08:43

Slightly off topic, but can you lot stop quoting Katman?
It kindof defeats the purpose of the ignore function ....

Anyone else, you'd like me to stop quoting as well?

Care to post up a list?

Any posts you'd rather people not respond to?

Any topics you'd prefer we don't post about?

Any particular shops you don't want us to buy from, or bikes you don't want to see on the road?

:blink::blink::blink::facepalm:

Smifffy

7th February 2011, 08:46

Then that would be a pretty silly assumption - considering that even if parked with no-one in it, it could still be concealing a hazard.

Not if the rider is wearing a hi-vis vest.

Whynot

7th February 2011, 08:52

Anyone else, you'd like me to stop quoting as well?

Care to post up a list?

Any posts you'd rather people not respond to?

Any topics you'd prefer we don't post about?

Any particular shops you don't want us to buy from, or bikes you don't want to see on the road?

:blink::blink::blink::facepalm:

dude.

chill out.

scumdog

7th February 2011, 08:54

and not to be taken seriously by intelligent reader.

Ah, that is where your cunning plan failed - you posted it on KB.

Flip

7th February 2011, 08:58

Far too much piss and vinegar here but I just want to add my 2c worth.

I worked on the roads for the last 10 years and I won't take a step out of my ute without a good clean vest. Mostly because it identifies me as a road worker and that I should be there on the roads, and I will also throw stones or shovels at vehicles that get too close to me.

I would probably never wear one on a bike. I believe you have to ride assertively and defensively, wearing a dayglo is far too passive and identifies me as being a victim. There are too many agressive drivers out there who will take advantage of this.

I went on a test ride on a vespa recently, within 2 miles I had 3 instances of other road users not giving way, pulling out and cutting me off. One was a real shitter, the driver made eye contact then turned right in front of me. He had stopped at a stop sign, I was goung straight ahead. If I had been on my Harley none of these would have occurred, IMHO because the Harley is a threatening vehicle and people see it and respond accordingly.

I had a friend who had a white bike and a white helm, he could get cars to slow and pull over just by riding up behind them, why because he looked like a bike cop from the front.

All my sympathy the prayers goes to the family and friends of the rider who was killed.

awayatc

7th February 2011, 09:13

. If I had been on my Harley none of these would have occurred, IMHO because the Harley is a threatening vehicle and people see it and respond accordingly.

.

plus 1

I get far more room and "courtesy" on my Harley then on my Aprillia.

Fuck the Hi viz vest and cops for preaching it.

sympathy to family and friends of victim.

Banditbandit

7th February 2011, 09:20

Vehicles don't pull u-turns without giving some clues as to their intention.

BULLSHIT !!!! You can be a really dumb fucker sometimes ..

Katman

7th February 2011, 09:23

FUCK YOU. Steve is it?

What planet do you live on? The bike has a head light, and any glance in a mirror will see that well before a fuckin hi vis vest.

You are a DICK in my opinion because you are in fact ANTI motorcyclist, as none of us measure up to your perfect standard.

You're bloody lucky ya didn't say that to my face, because given how angry I am I doubt very much I could control myself.

The statement made on the news puts fault on the rider, it is a FUCKIN WEAK thing to say!

I think it's well past time you pulled your head in, arsehole.

Really? What all the time? How many times have you seen a car, truck etc pull out onto the road without signalling their intentions? You're a cock.

You're so full of shit it's not even close to funny.

Katman is as full of shit as you are. You'd both better have incredible peripheral vision, although I will introduce myself first.

Un-fuking believable.
Again you blame the motorcyclist!!!
Without a shred of doubt you are a complete fucking cock Steve

See here you spinless fucking FAGGOT (you won't mind such language, seeing as you've called me a "whiney homo" here on KB), you've stated that a 'u' turn is always see-able!!?? That to me is very much the same as saying the poor DEAD fucking motorcyclist is partly to blame seeing as his/her skills are obviously nowhere near as good as yours.

You really do suck arse.

Now it aint often I chime in on here cos of all the r'tards. But you, Katman, are a complete cocksickle.

What the fuck is your malfunction cuntox. Honestly, why don't you just fuck right off.

But you are the all knowing wank stain of KB.
Glow in the glory buddy.

BULLSHIT !!!! You can be a really dumb fucker sometimes ..

Seriously, you guys really need to get a grip.

Banditbandit

7th February 2011, 09:29

We had a motorcycle rider taken down (at work) by a U-turner in December.

Our Motorcyclist had:

Head lamp on, Hi-Vis Vest on, Hi-Vis panniers, AND a 2m high Hi-Vis Flag.

If only she had firecrackers shooting out of her arse...................

Back in the 1980s a friend of mine bought a revolting bright yellow Mitsi .. when I asked her why she bought that colour, she said "No-one will miss it - it's very visible" . Six months later a turkey went through a Give Way sign and T-boned her - totalled the car but fortunately she was only bruised ..

The offending driver said ... what for it ... "Sorry I didn't see you ..."

Banditbandit

7th February 2011, 09:32

Seriously, you guys really need to get a grip.

Look shit head ... you can't argue that Hi-Viz vests save lives .. then argue that "I don't need one, I keep my eyes open ..."

Are you seriously suggesting that everyone else needs to wear Hi-Viz .. except for Mr Perfect Katman ...

Fuck, while I agree with some of what you say examples of bullshit like this just piss me off ...

Crasherfromwayback

7th February 2011, 09:32

Seriously, you guys really need to get a grip.

It is you that needs to get a grip. You wank on about being able to avoid vehicles doing u turns, like you're some motorcycling God. Fact is...you're (once more) insulting dead riders, and their families with your drivel. If you seriously think all u turn accidents can be avoided by riders...you're even more delusional than I think you are.

Never thought I'd say this about or to anyone...but I hope one day you come face to face with a u turning vehicle you can't avoid. But of course...you're so good it'll never happen eh!

Katman

7th February 2011, 09:38

Look shit head ... you can't argue that Hi-Viz vests save lives .. then argue that "I don't need one, I keep my eyes open ..."

Are you seriously suggesting that everyone else needs to wear Hi-Viz .. except for Mr Perfect Katman ...

Fuck, while I agree with some of what you say examples of bullshit like this just piss me off ...

You seem to have the wrong end of the stick here.

The last thing I want is for the government to decide we're all going to be forced to wear day-glo. I've never worn it and don't ever intend starting to.

But the only way we have a shit show of avoiding that is by starting to do a better job of looking out for idiots that don't look out for us.

Flip

7th February 2011, 09:43

It is you that needs to get a grip. You wank on about being able to avoid vehicles doing u turns, like you're some motorcycling God. Fact is...you're (once more) insulting dead riders, and their families with your drivel. If you seriously think all u turn accidents can be avoided by riders...you're even more delusional than I think you are.

Never thought I'd say this about or to anyone...but I hope one day you come face to face with a u turning vehicle you can't avoid. But of course...you're so good it'll never happen eh!

He is fucking with you, Katman makes ambiguous statements, see who bites then then adopts the moral high ground.

Spearfish

7th February 2011, 09:45

Since you want me to clarify, .... the serves "you" is mean for all police in general, it was just "counter-troll" for scummy and not to be taken seriously by intelligent reader.

I'm probably repeating myself

Ah ok, so one of those "he dropped a turd on your lawn and you picked it up and stuffed it in his letterbox" sorta posts...but you picked up a turd dude.......

Be happy Milo, you survived another weekend, far to many others didn't.

How many so far this "season"?

Camshaft

7th February 2011, 09:48

Vehicles don't pull u-turns without giving some clues as to their intention.

obviously u dont get out much

Katman

7th February 2011, 09:49

obviously u dont get out much

And you obviously don't look hard enough.

Crasherfromwayback

7th February 2011, 09:50

He is fucking with you, Katman makes ambiguous statements, see who bites then then adopts the moral high ground.

Katman probably doesn't even ride a motorcycle. If he did, he may realise some accidents can't be avoided by riders. Hell...even poor old Abe (RIP) got cleaned up by a u turn. Be really surprised if Abe's skills and situational awareness wasn't light years ahead of Katmans an all. But no...Katman would've avoided that one...no sweat.

Banditbandit

7th February 2011, 09:50

You seem to have the wrong end of the stick here.

The last thing I want is for the government to decide we're all going to be forced to wear day-glo. I've never worn it and don't ever intend starting to.

But the only way we have a shit show of avoiding that is by starting to do a better job of looking out for idiots that don't look out for us.

And sometimes it is impossible to avoid ... we are never ever going to have 100% safety on a motorcycle with idiot cage drivers on the road (and trucks drivers ...) and yes, I agree with idiot riders too ..

He is fucking with you, Katman makes ambiguous statements, see who bites then then adopts the moral high ground.

Maybe .. but in this case a rider died .. not a senario to fuck with people's heads over ...

Usarka

7th February 2011, 09:54

Depends on what he got them for? demerits don't necessarily mean he was doing anything unsafe, unless of course you believe the whole speed kills

Cop are identifiable road hazards. Even the ones that are hiding with lasers on bridges or using instant-on there are ways to reduce the risks using situational awareness and risk assessment skills.

I have no problem with infringements per se - it depends on the other factors. But for someone who preaches such exacting standards about hazard identification (and his other favourite - not doing things to put bikers in bad light) to fail to the point of almost losing his licence is hypocritical.

And to make these comments in response to a rider being killed.....? This thread is an embarrasement.

Katman

7th February 2011, 09:55

Hell...even poor old Abe (RIP) got cleaned up by a u turn. Be really surprised if Abe's skills and situational awareness wasn't light years ahead of Katmans an all.

Racetrack skills don't necessarily = road skills.

phill-k

7th February 2011, 09:59

I just have to join in too:yes:

In NZ we by and large have a large deal of respect for our police, this may have been downgraded somewhat because of the merger with the Traffic enforcement chaps, but by in large that respect is still there. I find it disappointing that our media are given the opportunity to "put to print all or part" of statements made by attending officers at these serious or fatal road crashes long before the causation has been determined by their specialist unit. Of late the statement speed and or alcohol may be involved and now a determination that a hi vis vest may have prevented this accident. The public unfortunately take what is said and reported in the papers as gospel especially if it is attributed to the likes of a police officer and I believe this is where all the previous argument has come from.

What I take from this thread is:

1. Perhaps some of the Levy could be spent on campaigning for the abolishing of the "U" turn in areas of high traffic flow, multi laned areas, narrow roads, or even all together. - A short trip around the block instead as is the case in Aussie in some of their high flow / risk roads where they have even banned right turns.

2. We need to take responsibility for our own survival on the roads, knowing we do not have the protection of a metal frame heightened vigilance at all times.

3. The acknowledgement that whilst this is a most unfortunate crash (not an accident) the statistics show that the majority of deaths on our roads are through our own actions - oh but for the grace of god go i" We need to accept that regardless of Hi-Vis (and I will not wear one even if it becomes law) or other supposed aid we are basically invisible on the road and thus do not have the "right of way"

4. I do not like to read or see the results of our own doings but it seems every week we see the results, and from this I take a message that to increase my chances of survival on the roads doing what I enjoy I need to recognise and respect my own limitations and not push the boundaries or I will pay the consequence.

5. In a perverse way I take some personal comfort from the statistics in that if 70 - 90% of m/c deaths were attributed to other causes such as cage drives not giving a fuck I probably would think twice about getting out there.

6. I am somewhat concerned about posters who have mentioned riding hd's or some such and being observed, but when riding scooters or coloured bikes being ignored, I have had this same experience which tends to indicate that this may be a part of the issue - the perceived threat in the subconscious.

I would like to see the Police introduce a hell of a lot more motorcycle police on our roads, this would no doubt educate the public to look out for bikes!

Smifffy

7th February 2011, 10:12

Be happy Milo, you survived another weekend, far to many others didn't.

It is unhelpful to speculate in an official capacity that hi-viz vests may have altered that outcome.

Crasherfromwayback

7th February 2011, 10:22

Racetrack skills don't necessarily = road skills.

I would've been happy to have bet $1000.00 you'd say that. But how do you know Abe wasn't a safe, totally alert road rider? Oh that's right...you don't. You just think you do...like you always do. I've been cleaned up by u turns twice...and I think it impossible no matter how good any other rider thinks they may be, to have been able to avoid either instance. And just because I've done a lot of racing, I can't see why I can't be considered good on the streets too. Oh that's right...I've been cleaned up twice...you never have! (Just thought I'd beat you to that one)

Swoop

7th February 2011, 10:26

Yeah, except that a cop hiding on the side of the road with a laser gun isn't exactly a safety hazard, is it?
It sounds like you did not plan ahead and anticipate the road conditions, then act accordingly to avoid the hazard.

No jammer fitted, eh?

Flip

7th February 2011, 10:27

I would've been happy to have bet $1000.00 you'd say that. But how do you know Abe wasn't a safe, totally alert road rider? Oh that's right...you don't. You just think you do...like you always do. I've been cleaned up by u turns twice...and I think it impossible no matter how good any other rider thinks they may be, to have been able to avoid either instance. And just because I've done a lot of racing, I can't see why I can't be considered good on the streets too. Oh that's right...I've been cleaned up twice...you never have! (Just thought I'd beat you to that one)

It also sounds like you are beginning to do Katmans job for him?

Marmoot

7th February 2011, 10:29

Vehicles don't pull u-turns without giving some clues as to their intention.

I don't know what kind of planet you are living in, but definitely not Earth.

Flip

7th February 2011, 10:37

I don't know what kind of planet you are living in, but definitely not Earth.

There is a jug of beer to the first person who correctly guesses what planet Katman comes from.:shutup:

DMNTD

7th February 2011, 10:43

There is a jug of beer to the first person who correctly guesses what planet Katman comes from.:shutup:

Uranus...and I drink bourbon

Scuba_Steve

7th February 2011, 10:44

There is a jug of beer to the first person who correctly guesses what planet Katman comes from.

I'm going with 'Kat Nebula'

"The Kat Planet is inhabited by super powered alien kats or Catnipians. Some of their powers are monster roars, super strength, and acid spit (Rumor has it that the Kat Planet is also called Planet Catnip). Kat is an alien cyborg that lived the Kat Planet but lives on Earth."

Crasherfromwayback

7th February 2011, 10:51

It also sounds like you are beginning to do Katmans job for him?

My bad. Very sorry.

There is a jug of beer to the first person who correctly guesses what planet Katman comes from.:shutup:

I can't remember the name of it...but it's that planet from far far away that's only inhabited by complete fuckwits and goats.

Kickaha

7th February 2011, 10:54

I'm going with 'Kat Nebula'

"The Kat Planet is inhabited by super powered alien kats or Catnipians. Some of their powers are monster roars, super strength, and acid spit (Rumor has it that the Kat Planet is also called Planet Catnip). Kat is an alien cyborg that lived the Kat Planet but lives on Earth."

Must of been kicked off it for being a cunt

Flip

7th February 2011, 11:00

Must of been kicked off it for being a cunt

Wasn't it destroyed by a comet that did a U turn around its star and they didn't see it coming.

Katman

7th February 2011, 11:02

How old are you guys? :blink:

pzkpfw

7th February 2011, 11:17

How old are you guys? :blink:

Obviously not very old.

Else they'd be dead by now, wouldn't they?

(I hear some of them don't wear hi-viz).

Flip

7th February 2011, 11:24

How old are you guys? :blink:

Why do you want to know young Kat-cyborg-man formally from Uranus but now from the ex-planet Catnipian in the Kat nebula.

scumdog

7th February 2011, 11:25

How old are you guys? :blink:

Average age of just under 12 years old judging by some of the posts.

And retarded 4 1/2 year old judging by others.:blink:

Crasherfromwayback

7th February 2011, 11:27

Average age of just under 12 years old judging by some of the posts.
And retarded 4 1/2 year old judging by others.:blink:

That should suit him just fine then...

avgas

7th February 2011, 11:37

Look shit head ... you can't argue that Hi-Viz vests save lives .. then argue that "I don't need one, I keep my eyes open ..."

Are you seriously suggesting that everyone else needs to wear Hi-Viz .. except for Mr Perfect Katman ...

Fuck, while I agree with some of what you say examples of bullshit like this just piss me off ...
I agree - bad turn of events.
However if it was said - we should all be a bit more alert or else we will be forced to wear hi-viz........

or worse - end up dead.

Now that would ring ok with me.

avgas

7th February 2011, 11:38

And retarded 4 1/2 year old judging by others.:blink:
I will have you know I am a 28 year old retard thank you very much.
This makes me as smart as a NORMAL 4.5 year old

Scuba_Steve

7th February 2011, 11:45

Average age of just under 12 years old judging by some of the posts.

And retarded 4 1/2 year old judging by others.:blink:

They're letting them in young at the cop shop nowadays ay. Must be getting desperate.

Spearfish

7th February 2011, 11:56

It is unhelpful to speculate in an official capacity that hi-viz vests may have altered that outcome.

Your right- the language used wasn't helpful and shifted the focus on what the rider COULD have done rarher that what the truck driver SHOULD BY LAW have done.

The drivers fuckup killed someone and the law doesnt say that a lesser charge will come about because the deceased was riding a motorcycle therefore contributed to his own injuries. (Yet)

You cant write off Katman though we are in a glass house biffing stones.

Crazy Steve

7th February 2011, 11:57

Eyegasm

7th February 2011, 11:59

Can we start with the silly hats yet???
231238

bogan

7th February 2011, 12:00

Can we start with the silly hats yet???
231238

shhhh, don't give them ideas, high vis would be bad enough :rolleyes:

Smifffy

7th February 2011, 12:19

Your right- the language used wasn't helpful and shifted the focus on what the rider COULD have done rarher that what the truck driver SHOULD BY LAW have done.

The drivers fuckup killed someone and the law doesnt say that a lesser charge will come about because the deceased was riding a motorcycle therefore contributed to his own injuries. (Yet)

You cant write off Katman though we are in a glass house biffing stones.

Thank you, that's all that I, and I think the MAG-NZ press statement were trying to say.

You stated it very clearly, and without emotional distractions.

It would be great if we could get that message through to Officers speaking to the media, and it would be awesome if the core of Katman's message would be taken up by bikers.

The question is how?

This is something that I hope MAG-NZ and the MSL can address.

monkeymcbean

7th February 2011, 12:32

Six months later a turkey went through a Give Way sign and T-boned her - totalled the car but fortunately she was only bruised ..

."

:laugh: If forgot a human can be referred to as a 'turkey' 'phew' man that was a geat 'visual' in my head! wonderful picture :clap:

Maha

7th February 2011, 12:41

Thank you, that's all that I, and I think the MAG-NZ press statement were trying to say.

You stated it very clearly, and without emotional distractions.

It would be great if we could get that message through to Officers speaking to the media, and it would be awesome if the core of Katman's message would be taken up by bikers.

The question is how?

This is something that I hope MAG-NZ and the MSL can address.

In all likelyhood, the people appointed to head the MSL committee will probably make mandatory for motorcyclist to wear HI-VIZ in light of this.:facepalm:

MAG-NZ have addressed it by sending out a Nationwide press release to all areas of the media.

jafar

7th February 2011, 12:44

Anyone know if there is a link to watch Tv3 News last night and watch what was said.

http://www.3news.co.nz/3-News-Full-Bulletin-February-6-2011/tabid/309/articleID/197327/Default.aspx

The normal one dosn't seem to be working atm.

Crazy Steve.

they pulled it from the website last night mate. :gob:
I'd like to think they did it because they realised that they had gone over the top with their piss poor slanted sensationalism. Using the unfortunate death of someone to push a political viewpoint:angry:
But a more likely answer is they broke the rubber band in their propaganda machine.:shit:

Genestho

7th February 2011, 12:56

In all likelyhood, the people appointed to head the MSL committee will probably make mandatory for motorcyclist to wear HI-VIZ in light of this.:facepalm:

MAG-NZ have addressed it by sending out a Nationwide press release to all areas of the media.

I wouldn't speculate as to what MSL will or won't do, but I do know reference to Hi Viz has come up in the past in my dealings with certain factions, and I've questioned the effectiveness when the topic came up.

Whether Hi-Viz would be made a mandatory requirement, personally - I really have strong doubts, and to suggest so based on media comments would be scaremongering - I would think more 'promoting the use of'.

If Hi Viz was to become mandatory there was wide open opportunity to do so in consultations in 09 and last year.

But, no doubt there'd be those who're pushing for it to happen.

EDIT: Condolances to friends and family at this terrible time.

scumdog

7th February 2011, 12:59

They're letting them in young at the cop shop nowadays ay. Must be getting desperate.

No second prizes mate....:rolleyes:

James Deuce

7th February 2011, 13:02

So I'm looking at importing one of these:

<img src=http://www.rideicon.com/showImage.jsp?class_id=12227&image_type=fullsize&rank=100>

Much better idea because you don't have one of those stupid vests flapping about catching on things and making you even hotter in warm weather.

Knowing how the NZ Government writes legislation, I'll bet that I still have to wear a vest over it, even though this jacket meets US Military base specs for hi-vis clothing, designed deliberately to get around restrictions on motorcyclists riding onto bases or camps.