Mr Goff and Mr Key, since you're planning to ask me to give you the top job...

[shrub]

I want you both to be brutally honest with me. I know enough to realise that we're kind of in the shit, and if we carry on down the path we're on it will just get worse. That means I don't want tax cuts or tax free thresholds if we can't afford them (and I don't think we can). If I want more money, rather than you give it to me as I tax cut, I'd rather go and earn it, so I want you to look after the small and medium businesses ahead of the global corporations because they make up 99% of all businesses in NZ. Or I want you to make it easier to get new skills that actually mean something so I can get a better paid job. In fact, if it meant that it got us out of the shit I wouldn't mind a small tax increase. Like I said, if I need more money I'll go and earn it myself.

And please don't cut services Mr Key. I know you think that's a great way to improve our economy, but it's not. All you do is increase the number of unemployed or encourage the best to leave for overseas - if you cut funding and make sweeping changes to a government department, who do you think is going to go? The most skilled and employable, or the "dead wood" who can't find work anywhere else? No, don't try and cut costs any more, focus instead on helping us to earn more money.

A better way to improve the economy is to increase our earnings. We live a long way from anywhere and have a well educated and skilled workforce, so I'd be really impressed if you focussed on building the high tech sector. They contribute $2bn to our economy compared to dairy's $3.6bn and they have a fraction of the impact on our fragile environment. How about keeping our power companies and helping them to develop cleantech energy solutions we can sell for a fortune?

And most importantly, look beyond the next election. You need to encourage sustainable business practices. Worldwide CEOs are realising that sustainable business is essential for survival, yet in this area we're a million miles behind our major trading partners and competitors - compare Wesfarmers with CRT or Kathmandu with Patagonia. The wealthier middle classes in Europe, the USA and even in China are making assessment of the sustainable business practices of suppliers an increasingly important part of the decision making process, so if we want them to buy our stuff, we need to have sustainable businesses. And all the evidence is that sustainability is not just essential for the planet's survival and for long term business viability, it makes sound economic sense in the short and medium term. Mr Key, you're an accountant - do the maths.

Mr Key and Mr Goff, one of you will be the PM this November. Please let it be the one with the honesty, courage and vision to actually lead us into the future, not mire us down in the past.

[marie_speeds]

An optimist on KB..... :shit:

But seriously take a look at both political partys' websites and sadly there really is nothing there of interest but promises, promises and more empty promises....

[blackdog]

This from the source (that i cannot disclose), on the day after Key ruled out a GST increase the other week, the IRD was directed to start gearing up for it in dec/jan immediately after the election.

Note to shrub:- be careful what you wish for

[avgas]

(a)I want you to make it easier to get new skills that actually mean something so I can get a better paid job.

(b)building the high tech sector. They contribute $2bn to our economy compared to dairy's $3.6bn and they have a fraction of the impact on our fragile environment.

(c)helping them to develop cleantech energy solutions we can sell for a fortune?

(d)You need to encourage sustainable business practices.

Looking at this, makes me wonder why we have a government at all, as all of the above is happening regardless whom gets in and what they do.
You seemed to have put the polly's on some god like pedestal........saying they can changed these things. But they have changed, infact the govt contributions here are but a pin-prick as to what has changed these areas.

a) What job? (seriously), as these things are already available

b) Its built and growing, what we need is reinvestment from those who were "the starters", we have incubation centers setup by business groups - but the tech community has not returned the favors yet. We need tech incubation centers similar to Silicon Valleys. This will happen, and have nothing to do with govt.

c) I seriously think you look at what the power co's are doing in association with many of the universities and businesses. I know for a fact Vector and Orion have patents out for their own in house designed technology.

d) good luck learning about business today without having this shoved down your throat. Its only the "Old Boys" in NZ business today that aren't following these mantras. If you want to change this - become a share holder and try and kick them out. Govt can't do shit here.

[shrub]

a) What job? (seriously), as these things are already available
There are jobs available for people with the right skills, and if we can improve our export performance the job market will grow.


b) Its built and growing, what we need is reinvestment from those who were "the starters", we have incubation centers setup by business groups - but the tech community has not returned the favors yet. We need tech incubation centers similar to Silicon Valleys. This will happen, and have nothing to do with govt.
I disagree. The universities are where a lot of the exciting and potentially profitable stuff comes from, yet they are facing decreasing funding, which means they need to import more commerce and law students from Asia. If I look at the thesis subjects from my fellow students, almost all of them are focussed on foreign problems which means nothing for NZ. I'm working on something that specifically impacts NZ businesses and when I've finished I'll have some answers that will help them become more profitable, but I am the minority.


c) I seriously think you look at what the power co's are doing in association with many of the universities and businesses. I know for a fact Vector and Orion have patents out for their own in house designed technology.
Then why sell them?



d) good luck learning about business today without having this shoved down your throat. Its only the "Old Boys" in NZ business today that aren't following these mantras. If you want to change this - become a share holder and try and kick them out. Govt can't do shit here.
Then how come so few NZ businesses are engaging in sustainable business practices compared to our trading partners and competitors? And how come so few CEOs have any understanding of the concept beyond thinking it's about recycling paper and buying a Prius?

[spajohn]

I want you both to be brutally honest with me...

Good read mate...but have you posted it somewhere they may read it? Try their websites, or Facebook sites. Thanks for posting here (as well)...I certainly enjoyed it.

[shrub]

Good read mate...but have you posted it somewhere they may read it? Try their websites, or Facebook sites. Thanks for posting here (as well)...I certainly enjoyed it.

Thanks. I'm going to edit and tweak it and email it directly to them and to my local MP.

[Eyegasm]

Thanks. I'm going to edit and tweak it and email it directly to them and to my local MP.

If I get a tax increase Shrub, I am sending you the bill.

[Dave Lobster]

And most importantly, look beyond snip

Good luck with that.

[Smifffy]

I want you both to be brutally honest with me. I know enough to realise that we're kind of in the shit,etc.

Nice thoughts, I doubt either of them can manage that at all.


Looking at this, makes me wonder why we have a government at all, as all of the above is happening regardless whom gets in and what they do.
You seemed to have put the polly's on some god like pedestal........saying they can changed these things. But they have changed, infact the govt contributions here are but a pin-prick as to what has changed these areas.

a) What job? (seriously), as these things are already available

b) Its built and growing, what we need is reinvestment from those who were "the starters", we have incubation centers setup by business groups - but the tech community has not returned the favors yet. We need tech incubation centers similar to Silicon Valleys. This will happen, and have nothing to do with govt.

c) I seriously think you look at what the power co's are doing in association with many of the universities and businesses. I know for a fact Vector and Orion have patents out for their own in house designed technology.

d) good luck learning about business today without having this shoved down your throat. Its only the "Old Boys" in NZ business today that aren't following these mantras. If you want to change this - become a share holder and try and kick them out. Govt can't do shit here.

This is more realistic.




I disagree. The universities are where a lot of the exciting and potentially profitable stuff comes from, yet they are facing decreasing funding, which means they need to import more commerce and law students from Asia. If I look at the thesis subjects from my fellow students, almost all of them are focussed on foreign problems which means nothing for NZ. I'm working on something that specifically impacts NZ businesses and when I've finished I'll have some answers that will help them become more profitable, but I am the minority.



I've recently been involved with post-grad researchers working on industry projects (last few years.)

Generally they seem to work off a whole slew of assumptions and can save millions of dollars, and when the assumptions are reality checked, the project ends up a very expensive exercise in wishful thinking.

[shrub]

I've recently been involved with post-grad researchers working on industry projects (last few years.)

Generally they seem to work off a whole slew of assumptions and can save millions of dollars, and when the assumptions are reality checked, the project ends up a very expensive exercise in wishful thinking.

What industry? What were they working on? What were their assumptions?

[Mully]

And most importantly, look beyond the next election.

This, IMH(F)O, is the problem.

Politicians (of whatever creed, with the possible exception of the Greens) only think in three year cycles. There's no (personal) incentive to think beyond that. All they need is to fool enough of the people enough of the time to be re-elected.

Setting up programs to raise living standards/wages etc is long term thinking (and would almost certainly include a tax hike) and political suicide because of it's unpopularity.


Good luck with that.

Yeah, what he said.

I did idly consider, just for shits and giggles, writing a manifesto (Mully for El Presidente) and posting it on here to be picked apart. But then I'm a delicate wee snowflake, so I don't know if I could stand the criticism.

[Thaeos]

Who are you kidding, Key's gonna win.

[shrub]

This, IMH(F)O, is the problem.

Politicians (of whatever creed, with the possible exception of the Greens) only think in three year cycles. There's no (personal) incentive to think beyond that. All they need is to fool enough of the people enough of the time to be re-elected.

Setting up programs to raise living standards/wages etc is long term thinking (and would almost certainly include a tax hike) and political suicide because of it's unpopularity..

that's pretty much bang on the money


Who are you kidding, Key's gonna win.

I'd be very surprised if he didn't. I think the main reason National haven't actually done anything this term is because they didn't want to lose this election. They'll very likely lose the next election, but they'll have had 6 years in government and that will please them immensely. I also suspect Key will quite early in the next term and English will take over.

[Mully]

I also suspect Key will quite early in the next term and English will take over.

Hmm, I dunno. English had a go - he's too much of a damp squib. You might be right on JK quitting, but there are probably some dark horses in the Nat list that they might throw in as a surprise.

[Smifffy]

What industry? What were they working on? What were their assumptions?

Suffice it to say a large manufacturing industry, that is energy intensive, and generates significant export earnings.

It would seem the biggest assumption that they made was to assume that they knew everything, and needn't bother asking the professionals who worked in the industry and also had post-graduate qualifications, who had already considered these options.

They then went public with a claim they could save us millions, so we said "show us the figures" we even went as far as vendor trials, but there was no way it was ever going to fly. Even the vendor bailed out in double quick time.

The thing that annoyed me the most is that there are similar, less sexy projects that will work, but thanks to their incompetence the overall concept has been discredited.

[shrub]

Suffice it to say a large manufacturing industry, that is energy intensive, and generates significant export earnings.

It would seem the biggest assumption that they made was to assume that they knew everything, and needn't bother asking the professionals who worked in the industry and also had post-graduate qualifications, who had already considered these options.

They then went public with a claim they could save us millions, so we said "show us the figures" we even went as far as vendor trials, but there was no way it was ever going to fly. Even the vendor bailed out in double quick time.

The thing that annoyed me the most is that there are similar, less sexy projects that will work, but thanks to their incompetence the overall concept has been discredited.

yeah, bloody postgraduates - they never know anything. Anyone would think spending years learning stuff was a good idea when we all know listening to your mates at the pub is the way forward.:2thumbsup:

Whoever they were, they were idiots and your employer fucked up hiring them - or you don't know the full story. The first thing I do when I work with a business is spend forever learning everything I can about the business and involving people "on the shop floor" who know what works, what doesn't and how to change things effectively. Then it's a case of developing strategies (in consultation with all stakeholders) to achieve the client's goals and carefully and strategically implementing those strategies. And all the time you monitor everything and the moment it looks like something is not going in the right direction you pull back and/or make the necessary corrections.

[Smifffy]

yeah, bloody postgraduates - they never know anything. Anyone would think spending years learning stuff was a good idea when we all know listening to your mates at the pub is the way forward.:2thumbsup:

Whoever they were, they were idiots and your employer fucked up hiring them - or you don't know the full story. The first thing I do when I work with a business is spend forever learning everything I can about the business and involving people "on the shop floor" who know what works, what doesn't and how to change things effectively. Then it's a case of developing strategies (in consultation with all stakeholders) to achieve the client's goals and carefully and strategically implementing those strategies. And all the time you monitor everything and the moment it looks like something is not going in the right direction you pull back and/or make the necessary corrections.

I know the full story alright. Better than you do. It had more to do with govt funding than very much else. I know what I'm doing, when it comes to that shit, it's my living, and the sustainability of my lifestyle depends on it.

Yes, the business screwed it up; they listened to them and not to me. I was right, they were wrong.

While everyone bitches about the cost of energy, it is still cheaper than the cost of capital. Every fricken time.

[shrub]

I know the full story alright. Better than you do.

If I knew more than you there would be something wrong because i dion't even know who you work for.


Yes, the business screwed it up; they listened to them and not to me. I was right, they were wrong.

Poor you. :violin: Bastards will know better than to listen to dumb old postgraduates when they have you on hand, hey?:yes:


While everyone bitches about the cost of energy, it is still cheaper than the cost of capital. Every fricken time.

Actually energy is incredibly cheap at the moment. Mind bogglingly cheap.

[Smifffy]

Poor you. :violin: Bastards will know better than to listen to dumb old postgraduates when they have you on hand, hey?:yes:


Actually, not poor me, poor the company, I didn't lose a cent, and I gained some cred. What makes you think I haven't done post-grad study myself?



Actually energy is incredibly cheap at the moment. Mind bogglingly cheap.

I agree with that wholeheartedly.

My point, and it wasn't supposed to be about me, was that I really don't believe that universities are the saviours of our industries and hence economy.

I do believe that universities are vitally important in providing skilled professionals to work within our industries, and are a great resource for those professionals to tap into for research and development. I don't think that universities are capable of delivering leading edge development to industry on their own recognisance.

So do you allocate funding to the university, or give a break to the business for working with the university?

I don't really think John or Phill are capable of getting that balance right, in conjunction with the other worthy causes vying for their attention.

[shrub]

My point, and it wasn't supposed to be about me, was that I really don't believe that universities are the saviours of our industries and hence economy.
I agree, there is no one "saviour" of industry apart from industry itself.



I do believe that universities are vitally important in providing skilled professionals to work within our industries, and are a great resource for those professionals to tap into for research and development. I don't think that universities are capable of delivering leading edge development to industry on their own recognisance.

So do you allocate funding to the university, or give a break to the business for working with the university?

A combination of the two. I am working very closely with a company to find a solution to a problem they have identified. They are getting the benefit of someone working full time on their problem plus my two supervisors and the resources of the university, and I am getting paid rather well (including most of my fees) and have a job offer at the end of my studies. I think situations like that are a great opportunity for business and academia to work together to grow and advance NZ business, but they don't happen by themselves.

I put it together by myself because I have business networks, the ability to knock on doors and broker a deal and my many years in business have taught me to identify opportunities. I believe what I am doing is quite unusual and the ethics committee had to break into a huddle for several hours to decide whether what I was doing was OK.

[aprilia_RS250]

yeah, bloody postgraduates - they never know anything. Anyone would think spending years learning stuff was a good idea when we all know listening to your mates at the pub is the way forward.:2thumbsup:

Agree with you there, postgraduate students don't know much. I've been working in finance for 5 years now and have worked with 1st class honours, masters and few PhD's... Sit them down and ask them to make money for ya, ummmmm how do I do that is the fist question??? Gota spoon feed them for a year.

They expect more dough too than just undergrads so we don't tend to hire them anymore, a fresh undergrad who's hungry is worth more than a wanky post grad student who realizes he's wasted an additional three years and gained extra student debt for fuck all educational value.

[shrub]

Agree with you there, postgraduate students don't know much. I've been working in finance for 5 years now and have worked with 1st class honours, masters and few PhD's... Sit them down and ask them to make money for ya, ummmmm how do I do that is the fist question??? Gota spoon feed them for a year.

They expect more dough too than just undergrads so we don't tend to hire them anymore, a fresh undergrad who's hungry is worth more than a wanky post grad student who realizes he's wasted an additional three years and gained extra student debt for fuck all educational value.

Actually, in a way you're right, but the problem is not having a postgrad degree - the problem is lack of life experience. I have a first class honours in commerce and am doing my Masters now, but I also have 20 odd years of business experience, from being a rep on the road to the marketing manager of a major corporate to running my own business. I am gaining an enormous amount of benefit from my studies and have significantly increased my value to prospective clients and employers; and therefore increased my potential income. People pay me for what I know, and the more I know the more I can charge. Undergrad was fun and interestiing - I did a political science degree, but my postgrad studies have been about building knowledge in a defined area, and 2 years intensely studying a subject is proving to be of huge value.

I think a 21 year old new grad with an undergrad degree probably realises that they don't actually know anything, whereas a 22 year old with an honours degree probably thinks they do, and an ignorant person who thinks they know shit is useless. I came to university late in life, and only did it because I had kind of achieved all my goals and wanted to try something different. I think the minimum age for university should be 25 and both of my kids have been told to get a trade or at the very least travel first, and although my son is keen to go to uni, he is in the army training as a mechanic first.