The world's revolting

[Edbear]

This could get interesting...

http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/8825689/unrest-spreads-in-africa-and-middle-east/

[Mully]

It is, isn't it.

When I'm in charge, we'll get rid of all the undesireables. Then it'll be much less revolting.

[george formby]

This could get interesting...

http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/8825689/unrest-spreads-in-africa-and-middle-east/

This has been a popular topic in my shop recently. I keep thinking about Iraq & Iran after their dictators were deposed & the factions that are trying or have filled the political vacuum.

We live in interesting times...

[Elysium]

http://pcmedia.ign.com/pc/image/article/111/1111657/borderlands-claptraps-new-robot-revolution-20100811105921461_640w.jpg

[mashman]

it cracks me up that the media think that democracy will save the day... let alone the people thinking the same. Still, if it buys them another 5 years, great...

Couldn't have come at a better time either as me mum is awf to Egypt next weekend, unless i can talk her out of it and as long as she has her life insurance policy up to date :shifty:

[Banditbandit]

Yeah ... what are you all going to say if the Middle East goes entirely democratic .. and the people vote for the Islamic Parties ??? Like Lebanon did ...

[Edbear]

Yeah ... what are you all going to say if the Middle East goes entirely democratic .. and the people vote for the Islamic Parties ??? Like Lebanon did ...

That is entirely likely, of course. The main issue for the world is that regardless of the desirability or otherwise of the regimes, the East is heading for unknown instability rather than the general stability up until now.

Shades of the USSR but with the added uncertainty of extremeism.

[mashman]

That is entirely likely, of course. The main issue for the world is that regardless of the desirability or otherwise of the regimes, the East is heading for unknown instability rather than the general stability up until now.

Shades of the USSR but with the added uncertainty of extremeism.

I think the Egypt scenario will remove of lot of that instability problerm and show that a change of political process can be brought about by "peaceful" protest. Mubarak wouldn't step down. That's when it started turning to shit, so hopefully the Jordanian, Algerian etc... leaders will take note of this and move aside at the request of their peoples.

The problem is that the core issues that brought people out of their homes, will most likely still remain. Where are all of these jobs going to come from? Where's all the money for govt "reform" going to come from?

And having had a taste of kicking out a "useless" govt, do Middle Eastern countries really need to move towards a democracy to solve their problems? I mean, we've seen the western world become socially bankrupt because TPTB rotate in and out in short term cycles that do nothing for "society" other than change a few laws and financially opress their people.

Society does not get better and better these days, quite the opposite. The core issues that the Middle East are facing are very similar to, if not exactly the same, as those here in the West. Health, Employment, Education etc... the political system that is in place has very little to do with how the private economy works and it's the private economy, and its profit driven model, that's "caused" all of these issues.

Sorry, I just don't see the political model, regime/democracy/socialism etc..., as having much of a bearing in regards to support for the people. We have different systems, yet we all suffer the same issues. Why?

[puddytat]

To many divisions amongst people living by thier various Dogmas.....before there was a GOD there was GOOD.What Im trying to say is that GOD is just a misspelling of the original word GOOD...."cause in whatever language GOOD means GOOD, GOD seems to mean as many problems as it solves. You dont need to be religious to understand the meaning of being or doing GOOD.As for GOD, does anyone really understand GOD? Seems to me its a great way to dissagree with your neighbour on its idiosincracies.JUst being GOOD to yourself ,youre neighbour ,youre country & our planet seems a way simpler option.Doing GOOD promotes working together & creates a feeling of GOODWILL. GOD seems to promote "itself" & create a lot of schism.
The worst GOD of the lot is ....

[avgas]

Its been revolting for millions of years man. That's how come we have night and day.
It wasn't until a while ago that we realized the earth revolts around the sun and not vice versa.

[Banditbandit]

That is entirely likely, of course. The main issue for the world is that regardless of the desirability or otherwise of the regimes, the East is heading for unknown instability rather than the Four Star General stability up until now.

Shades of the USSR but with the added uncertainty of extremeism.

There .. fixed that for you ... stability enforced with a gun !!!!


To many divisions amongst people living by thier various Dogmas.....before there was a GOD there was GOOD.What Im trying to say is that GOD is just a misspelling of the original word GOOD...."cause in whatever language GOOD means GOOD, GOD seems to mean as many problems as it solves. You dont need to be religious to understand the meaning of being or doing GOOD.As for GOD, does anyone really understand GOD? Seems to me its a great way to dissagree with your neighbour on its idiosincracies.JUst being GOOD to yourself ,youre neighbour ,youre country & our planet seems a way simpler option.Doing GOOD promotes working together & creates a feeling of GOODWILL. GOD seems to promote "itself" & create a lot of schism.
The worst GOD of the lot is ....

Are you fucking kidding me? How much weed did you smoke before you thought of that ???

If there was no God to punish bad people and reward good people, where is the incentive for most people to be good??? If people did not believe that good people go to heaven and bad people burn in hell forever - i.e. if most peole beleived dead is dead ... then we'd have one hell of a BAD party ...

Get real ... Most people need a judgemental boogie man in the sky writing in his big book and handing out punishment just like Daddy did !!!!

[Edbear]

There .. fixed that for you ... stability enforced with a gun !!!!

...!!!!

You're not wrong, of course which is why I had the provisio in there. As with Iraq, though, the country, and the Middle East in general is less stable now. There never was going to be an easy answer. Democracy won't ever work in a country and for a people who have only ever known tribal/feudal extremeism and the rule of force.

[mashman]

If there was no God to punish bad people and reward good people, where is the incentive for most people to be good??? If people did not believe that good people go to heaven and bad people burn in hell forever - i.e. if most peole beleived dead is dead ... then we'd have one hell of a BAD party ...

Get real ... Most people need a judgemental boogie man in the sky writing in his big book and handing out punishment just like Daddy did !!!!

I don't believe in God, well not really and She/He/It/Them are definately not an incentive for how I go about my life, dead or not :shifty:... so I contest your BAD party argument.

Most people, imho, just need to see the hurt they cause to others (took me a while to pay attention to it :yes:)... by all means seek solice in the words of the "lord" etc... but treating it like it is gospel and living your life according to the teachings of a book has proven to be one of the most dangerous things ever to be let loose on the populace... especially under the guise of things being done as "Gods" work :facepalm:

[Edbear]

I don't believe in God, well not really and She/He/It/Them are definately not an incentive for how I go about my life, dead or not :shifty:... so I contest your BAD party argument.

Most people, imho, just need to see the hurt they cause to others (took me a while to pay attention to it :yes:)... by all means seek solice in the words of the "lord" etc... but treating it like it is gospel and living your life according to the teachings of a book has proven to be one of the most dangerous things ever to be let loose on the populace... especially under the guise of things being done as "Gods" work :facepalm:

A common misunderstanding. People confuse religious dogma with the teachings of the Bible. This is deliberately promoted by the churches who actively use lies and half-truths to support their hypocrisy, greed and bloodshed "in the name of God". If they can rationalise or justify their desire for power, wealth and control by saying it is "God' Will", they believe they will fool the majority of the common people into supporting them.

Funnily enough, this has been, in fact, the case throughout most of Man's history until lately as the record of so-called "Christianity" is being more and more seen for what it is.

The truth is that Christendom is diametrically opposed to scripture and absolutely condemned in scripture for its lies, deceipt and hypocrisy. You don't go to Heaven or Hell when you die, there is no firery lake of torture for the baddies or sitting on clouds playing harps for the goodies. There's no Trinity of God(s) and no immortal soul.

So while you can certainly blame religion - both "Christian" and Pagan - for the ills of the world, the Bible has little to do with it but as a prop for lies.

[mashman]

A common misunderstanding. People confuse religious dogma with the teachings of the Bible. This is deliberately promoted by the churches who actively use lies and half-truths to support their hypocrisy, greed and bloodshed "in the name of God". If they can rationalise or justify their desire for power, wealth and control by saying it is "God' Will", they believe they will fool the majority of the common people into supporting them.

Funnily enough, this has been, in fact, the case throughout most of Man's history until lately as the record of so-called "Christianity" is being more and more seen for what it is.

The truth is that Christendom is diametrically opposed to scripture and absolutely condemned in scripture for its lies, deceipt and hypocrisy. You don't go to Heaven or Hell when you die, there is no firery lake of torture for the baddies or sitting on clouds playing harps for the goodies. There's no Trinity of God(s) and no immortal soul.

So while you can certainly blame religion - both "Christian" and Pagan - for the ills of the world, the Bible has little to do with it but as a prop for lies.

Heh, common misunderstandings are people reading what they want into what was written :shifty: :bleh:... I meant pretty much all of what you said, not the opposite, as we are what we are and excusing ones self based on ones religious belief is utter bullshit (using laymans terms) and highly disrespectful towards the human race and its billions of individuals :)... turns out the internet is as bad as the bible :shifty:... although I was referring to any scripture that "preaches" anything other than peace towards their fellow man on the basis that they do not share a belief.

I care not what badge they wear. It's what they do under its umbrella that annoys me a smidge :), the righteous if you will. But as multiple religions and cultures become more tolerant of each other (well kinda :)) there will be less places for politicians to hide, revolts will take place in the name of the People and I hope I live to see that day :).

[puddytat]

Are you fucking kidding me? How much weed did you smoke before you thought of that ???

If there was no God to punish bad people and reward good people, where is the incentive for most people to be good??? If people did not believe that good people go to heaven and bad people burn in hell forever - i.e. if most peole beleived dead is dead ... then we'd have one hell of a BAD party ...

Get real ... Most people need a judgemental boogie man in the sky writing in his big book and handing out punishment just like Daddy did !!!!

Well I havnt had a bong or a cookie for weeks:yes:
Considering that, I'd quesstimate that the majority of people on this orb would class themselves to be of one religious bent or another then Id like to postulate that that is why the party aint going to well....
Either Im misunderstanding you or you me, but what Im saying is that if people need something "otherworldly" to blame instead of human selfishness & bigotry or Mother Nature then they are seeking solace in thier own wee illusion. If people need some other entity or incentive to be good then no wonder were in the shit. Why not just trying to be & do good, for no other reason than its the right thing to do?.What comes around goes around man. I dont need a GOD of any discription to tell me how to live my life & most definitely dont need a Priest or a Witch Doctor whose high on incense or herb .
Personally, I think the idea of Heaven is the ultimate cop out,because as long as you repent your sins on the Sabbath,the Cross or the confessional or while being being stoned ,you'll get to heaven:wings:....leaving behind the Havoc your've created while on Earth.:oi-grr::niceone:

[Edbear]

Well I havnt had a bong or a cookie for weeks:yes:
Considering that, I'd quesstimate that the majority of people on this orb would class themselves to be of one religious bent or another then Id like to postulate that that is why the party aint going to well....
Either Im misunderstanding you or you me, but what Im saying is that if people need something "otherworldly" to blame instead of human selfishness & bigotry or Mother Nature then they are seeking solace in thier own wee illusion. If people need some other entity or incentive to be good then no wonder were in the shit. Why not just trying to be & do good, for no other reason than its the right thing to do?.What comes around goes around man. I dont need a GOD of any discription to tell me how to live my life & most definitely dont need a Priest or a Witch Doctor whose high on incense or herb .
Personally, I think the idea of Heaven is the ultimate cop out,because as long as you repent your sins on the Sabbath,the Cross or the confessional or while being being stoned ,you'll get to heaven:wings:....leaving behind the Havoc your've created while on Earth.:oi-grr::niceone:

LOL!!! Well said! Human nature, (and KB is a very real example), is to balk at "rules" and to prefer to do things ones own way. However, when it turns to custard as it usually does, they also blame other than themselves for it and expect TPTB to pick them up and dust them off and "fix it".

Unrealistically, people think that other people who are just like them, can get into Govt. and fix the problems of society and provide everything we need without it costing us our "rights", our "freedom" and our money. I've said before, imagine a cross-section of KB running the country...?

People evade the law, evade tax, evade providing for their families and expect the Govt. will take care of them with this bottomless pit of money magicked out of nowhere and by waving its magic wand over the "baddies".

The problem with the Bible is the same as with any instruction manual, it only works if people read it and do what it says or the Warranty is null and void and you reap what you sow. Most of what it does say is simple common sense anyway! Trouble with rules and regulations is they require self-discipline, self-control and self-denial for the long term and common good. That really rankles with many if not most people and that's the history of Mankind. Now we face not just increasing unrest, but the destruction of the environment to the point that science is giving us only a few more generations, or even one before we become extinct.

Watch the Middle East, Africa and China now as things unfold.

[george formby]

LOL!!! Well said! Human nature, (and KB is a very real example), is to balk at "rules" and to prefer to do things ones own way. However, when it turns to custard as it usually does, they also blame other than themselves for it and expect TPTB to pick them up and dust them off and "fix it".



Watch the Middle East, Africa and China now as things unfold.

The weight of religion & fringe fundamentalism is increasing because of the failure's being compounded by politicians & economists. Whichever good book you prefer offers advice, solace & community. Without a long view & the sacrifices required to safe guard resources, knowledge & environment we are poked.

Add India v Pakistan, the Koreas & the Stans to your list

[Edbear]

The weight of religion & fringe fundamentalism is increasing because of the failure's being compounded by politicians & economists. Whichever good book you prefer offers advice, solace & community. Without a long view & the sacrifices required to safe guard resources, knowledge & environment we are poked.

Add India v Pakistan, the Koreas & the Stans to your list

You're not wrong. We live in the "here and now" and in a "throw-away society" and people are throwing away society itself as they withdraw into themselves due to the worsening conditions around them.

Even Tonga and Fiji are arguing at the moment over territory. Seems no-one can find any common ground anymore. Britain is imploding into a mess of racism, Christian v. Moslem and Homosexuals oppressing heterosexuals. "Christianity" is being legislated against as secularism takes over.

[mashman]

Why not just trying to be & do good, for no other reason than its the right thing to do?


because some people just don't seem to be able to grasp that simple concept... in fact they lose it along the way as money becomes more of a driver eh.



imagine a cross-section of KB running the country...?


I love the idea and think it would have a much more positive outcome for society than any political parties that have given it a crack... after all, look where society is today :yes: :facepalm:... at least they'd get things done without pandering to the soft cocks :), not saying they wouldn't take them into consideration, but there is a need for a HTFU attitude these days.

[puddytat]

Fascinating times we live in me thinks...
In regards to Egypt I think that this "Peoples Revolution "is an amazing thing to have seen....But I feel that it went off before anyone really had an alternative plan.
So the Army now controls the country , a military coup by proxy you could say, until & again I say UNTIL, they deem it appropriate to grant elections.....
Meanwhile the only organised group in the country is the Islamists,supported by other Islamist states like Iran who is saying that "the people have spoken" when their own President made damn sure that he remaind in control when people protested against the regime last year:facepalm:
I hope they can get it together, the majority of people there, who are no doubt moderates & would like to get more than $2.50 a day.
But I fear that the coming together of the people will split into factions.
Power corrupts.
In Africa it'll go Tribal.

Just heard on NatRad that this years Temp increase in N.Z is the equivalent to the country moving 7-10 degrees Nth in latitude...:blink:

[Banditbandit]

Well I havnt had a bong or a cookie for weeks:yes:
Considering that, I'd quesstimate that the majority of people on this orb would class themselves to be of one religious bent or another then Id like to postulate that that is why the party aint going to well....
Either Im misunderstanding you or you me, but what Im saying is that if people need something "otherworldly" to blame instead of human selfishness & bigotry or Mother Nature then they are seeking solace in thier own wee illusion. If people need some other entity or incentive to be good then no wonder were in the shit. Why not just trying to be & do good, for no other reason than its the right thing to do?.What comes around goes around man. I dont need a GOD of any discription to tell me how to live my life & most definitely dont need a Priest or a Witch Doctor whose high on incense or herb .
Personally, I think the idea of Heaven is the ultimate cop out,because as long as you repent your sins on the Sabbath,the Cross or the confessional or while being being stoned ,you'll get to heaven:wings:....leaving behind the Havoc your've created while on Earth.:oi-grr::niceone:

OK let's take out my trolling .. here's what Im saying ...

1 Human beings are largely psycologically dependent on some form of "higher power" to set the rules for their behaviour

2 Religion has set of rules to govern behaviour, with an attendent reward/punishment system to make sure the rules are followed - i.e. if you are good, when you die you are rewarded, if you are bad, when you die you are punished. (The religious imperative) Even Buddhism does this, so don't chuck Matreya at me ...

Our laws are still largely based around the Ten Commandments, even though we are a secular state.

3 If you remove the Religious Imperative, what motivation is there for people to be good? If, when you are dead you are dead, why not have a fun time here and do what you want, even if it is very very nasty - Like Jeffrey Dharma or Albert Fish ... there will be no consequences after death.

Most people are not altruistic ... they only behave in altruistic ways because they believe they will be rewarded in the next life ..

[george formby]

The army STILL controls the country.

The Islamic organisation which is being discussed is moderate & do not believe that religion & politics should mix.
I see strings being pulled behind the scenes of this organisation & no doubt quite a bit of money heading their way & to certain individuals in the army.

The best hope for the country would be a peaceful revolution in the army & police force too, from the ground up.

IMHO but I'm no Robert Fisk.

[Edbear]

OK let's take out my trolling .. here's what Im saying ...

1 Human beings are largely psycologically dependent on some form of "higher power" to set the rules for their behaviour

2 Religion has set of rules to govern behaviour, with an attendent reward/punishment system to make sure the rules are followed - i.e. if you are good, when you die you are rewarded, if you are bad, when you die you are punished. (The religious imperative) Even Buddhism does this, so don't chuck Matreya at me ...

Our laws are still largely based around the Ten Commandments, even though we are a secular state.

3 If you remove the Religious Imperative, what motivation is there for people to be good? If, when you are dead you are dead, why not have a fun time here and do what you want, even if it is very very nasty - Like Jeffrey Dharma or Albert Fish ... there will be no consequences after death.

Most people are not altruistic ... they only behave in altruistic ways because they believe they will be rewarded in the next life ..

1/ I agree in that science also says human beings are essentially spiritual, being the only intelligent creature with a sense of the divine or superior intelligence/being/God and as General Montgomery observed, despite 60% signing up as Atheist, "There were no atheists in the front trenches."

2/ Religions of all sides and societies in general including secular have a set of rules with reward or punishment.

3/ I have a wee bit more faith in human nature in that I believe most people are by nature, altruistic with a sense of justice inherent in Man and in harmony with the Bible which says that, "When people of the nations who do not have Law, do by nature the things of the Law, they demonstrate they have the matter of the Law written in their hearts." So by nature, Man is created basically just and with the capacity for love and to care for his fellow man. Scriptural Law, is basically common sense and revolves around caring for each other, the animals and the environment, things which we should by nature agree with.

4/ There are consequences for our actions both good and bad, whether immediate or delayed, and when you stop and think about it, Death is not attractive regardless what happens after that. We are inherently designed to live and love life and the thought we may simply go away forever, never to be seen or heard again, just rot back to the ground, is anathema to most.

[puddytat]

3 If you remove the Religious Imperative, what motivation is there for people to be good? If, when you are dead you are dead, why not have a fun time here and do what you want, even if it is very very nasty - Like Jeffrey Dharma or Albert Fish ... there will be no consequences after death.

..

Everything else I agree with...but being good is simply morals & ethics & doesnt need religion to enforce it.Look at the laws people disregard, do you think they give a shit about Religion?.They know the differance between being good & bad & laws dont stop them so why would Religion. Dont get me wrong Im not trying to bag Religion, I do see the good in it , but I still see it far too often being used for purposes that have nothing to do with God & or the common good.
And as for consequences as far as im concerned its the legacy that people leave behind that is what they will be rembered for & by, the people that are still on this mortal coil.
As Ed said, & its what I also believe in, is the likes of the 10 commandments....a set of moral & ethical guidelines which funnily enough the Religions that are causing half the drama all agree on:weird: And which youre common heathen can also grasp.:weird:

[george formby]

I think that apart from our primitive nature to nurture we have fairly negative motivations in a "we are good, really" sense, basically, whatever it takes to get ahead & stay ahead. It's only because of the strong who gave their people stability & raw materials through victory that we ended up with religion, politics, philosophy etc in the first place.

Broadly speaking all the great civilizations started off as warring tribes, where united by strong, merciless leaders & through conquest & domination developed the aspects of culture we have now.

That's why the likes of the Khmer Rouge & Congolese armies use child soldiers, they have no inbuilt sense of morality, right or wrong. Unaffected by culture.
We used to knock 7 bells out of each other into our early twenties, hopefully be able to retire for a few years & share our wisdom on tactics & techniques then off to wherever we believed our next life was.

I don't think we have changed as homo sapiens, but we have added to the ways we can control & get ahead with many new labels for our actions.

I also think that the cornerstones of our societies, religion, law, political debate etc came about to curb & control our instincts because they are bad for the business of those people who are getting ahead in/running our world, but, over all they are good for everybody too, we live longer.

I'm a fully fledged cynic, soz.:shutup:

[oneofsix]

there is hunters, there is gathers, there is farmers and there is soldiers and finally manipulating bastards. I think human kind has always had a mixture of types.
Very few don't have a moral compass but some are more able than others to ignore it or rationalise it to fit their needs.
Child armies are because children are easy to bully and to get to submit to authority, part of innate their programming. Children do have a moral compass but when the authority figure says to go against it they are more likely to obey.
The last few post have all had good points

[Edbear]

there is hunters, there is gathers, there is farmers and there is soldiers and finally manipulating bastards. I think human kind has always had a mixture of types.
Very few don't have a moral compass but some are more able than others to ignore it or rationalise it to fit their needs.
Child armies are because children are easy to bully and to get to submit to authority, part of innate their programming. Children do have a moral compass but when the authority figure says to go against it they are more likely to obey.
The last few post have all had good points

Exactly! When you see what the adults do to these children in order to get them to aquiesce it is horrifying and pure evil. They rape the girls, and sometimes the boys, they force them to kill their own family members, they are mutilated and beaten until the children are so demoralised or afraid, that they will do anything they are told to do.

Children especially, have a keen sense of justice and fairness which needs to be rewarded, encouraged, supported, and guided into adulthood with parental backing and especially parental example. Children learn what they see and hear, not what they are told.

[george formby]

Exactly! When you see what the adults do to these children in order to get them to aquiesce it is horrifying and pure evil. They rape the girls, and sometimes the boys, they force them to kill their own family members, they are mutilated and beaten until the children are so demoralised or afraid, that they will do anything they are told to do.

Children especially, have a keen sense of justice and fairness which needs to be rewarded, encouraged, supported, and guided into adulthood with parental backing and especially parental example. Children learn what they see and hear, not what they are told.

I do not really want to dwell on this because i find it as abhorrent as you but the thing is with the poor kids the treatment becomes normal & unquestionable in their eyes so they continue to treat others the same way making them very effective soldiers. Adults can be bullied & tortured into behaving a similar way but it would become normal for only a very few. It takes a very screwed up person to torture, kill & rape without feeling. Kids can do it better than adults, they tend to live in the moment & do not suffer remorse.
The aid agency's who come to the help of these orphans face a difficult task in re-educating them but it says a lot about child adaptability that they can.

Sorry, time to get back on topic:shutup:

[avgas]

You all know the rules.
Religious Ravings go in the religious ravings thread.

So I will start to derail this thread until the thread is moved, I am banned or the topic steps off its downward spiral

So here is a silly hat
232269

[Banditbandit]

About time

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_ax5ZIdFoW1U/ScJayj1l34I/AAAAAAAAMys/jWJVJyL0tLY/s400/womens-hats-05.jpg

[Edbear]

"Hi, Jack!" :innocent:

[SPman]

You're not wrong, of course which is why I had the provisio in there. As with Iraq, though, the country, and the Middle East in general is less stable now. There never was going to be an easy answer. Democracy won't ever work in a country and for a people who have only ever known tribal/feudal extremeism and the rule of force.
Why would you say that - it sounds rather condescending, in the extreme (although I know what you're getting at)
Egypt's troubles have only just started. The head of the army is an old mate of Mubaraks, all the systems that oppressed the populace are still in place, and the cost of wheat, which was the catalyst for the whole scenario is still high. As well as that, the West will be manouvering behind the scenes to slot another puppet into place.
One of the reasons, that Islam is so prevalent in these uprisings, is because the mosque is one of the only places that people can gather, hence the influence of the Mullahs is very strong.
The Tunisian and Egyptian protests have been remarkable for there spontanaity - the "Muslim brotherhood" have played a lesser part than normal, although they are the only really organised group involved.


4/ There are consequences for our actions both good and bad, whether immediate or delayed, and when you stop and think about it, Death is not attractive regardless what happens after that. We are inherently designed to live and love life and the thought we may simply go away forever, never to be seen or heard again, just rot back to the ground, is anathema to most.Hence, because most people can't handle the truth, they turn to some "power", they make up, to justify what they do, and a make believe after-life so they don't have to face reality and come to terms with themselves!

[Indiana_Jones]

All good here.

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/US3YMe67jZk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

-Indy

[Edbear]

It's spreading. Anyone want to guess how far it's going to go...?

[mashman]

It's spreading. Anyone want to guess how far it's going to go...?

do you mean in relation to geography? or the amount of dead people it will take to make countries realise that their people aren't happy with the way they're running the country?

I'm still gonna go for the US, partly as they're talking about shutting down the govt on a periodic basis, states are talking about their own currencies, they're allowing people in some states to carry guns pretty much anytime any place and their leadership seems to be just as narrow minded as every other western country, or eastern for that matter...

What ya thinkin Ed?

[Edbear]

do you mean in relation to geography? or the amount of dead people it will take to make countries realise that their people aren't happy with the way they're running the country?

I'm still gonna go for the US, partly as they're talking about shutting down the govt on a periodic basis, states are talking about their own currencies, they're allowing people in some states to carry guns pretty much anytime any place and their leadership seems to be just as narrow minded as every other western country, or eastern for that matter...

What ya thinkin Ed?

I'm thinking that what we are seeing is unprecedented. The civil unrest is occurring in countries you would not expect it to occur, totalitarian countries ruled by force, even China is starting to experience the disatisfaction of the people. Who would have guessed such as Libya to undergo this uprising?

What is occurring now is unsettling the US Govt. they simply don't know how to respond, who to support, what action, if any, to take.

The stable West is being challenged in a way it's not used to and the "stable" East is experiencing the unexpected and they are not sure how to respond. Do they shoot their citizens or aquiesce?

Yes, I'm thinking, alright, I'm wondering what everyone else is thinking...

[mashman]

heh, i've read some of the US media released quotes and they are pretty much kiss and make up "speeches"... but I do wonder who they're rootin for though :)...

I reckon once enough of a population clicks that it's the people in power that are the problem and not the political system, that's when the real fun and games are gonna start... we're just seeing the foreplay at the mo...

Funny how those in power believe they know better than everyone else and will fight to stay where they are...

[Usarka]

When the peasants with the oil revolt, all bets are off.

[mashman]

When the peasants with the oil revolt, all bets are off.

and the price of oil rises?

[oldrider]

Funny how those in power believe they know better than everyone else and will fight to stay where they are...

Why are there markets for drugs ... it's just part of our human make up ... dependency!

I.E. The politicians get hooked on the money, the look at me factor and the life style ... it sure beats selling burgers at MacDonald's!

Their struggle is to get to the top of the pile and surround themselves with controllable fuckwits that will bust their balls to please them! :sick:

The same thing is happening in every other human pile of shit.

The politicians throw titbits to the media and create their own "in" group of journalists who write and present the bullshit they need to stay in the public eye!

It's not what they know, it's who they know and how can they benefit from it!

That's why the wrong people are always at the top, it's because no matter how well we dress it up, humans are basically scavengers and grovellers, it's just the way we are! :facepalm:

[oneofsix]

I.E. The politicians get hooked on the money, the look at me factor and the life style ... it sure beats selling burgers at MacDonald's!



Power corrupts pollies. Some people get off on money or money buying them power but pollies love pointing out how they gave up the ability to make more money to take on the job, they calm its to server the people but its because it gives them the obvious power as opposed to behind the scenes power.
1/ All power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely.
2/ The love of money is the root of all evil.
I think they are the two quotes from time immemorial

[marty]

Great article in this week's Time magazine. Interesting to discover the input of a member of Google's executive committee to the Egyptian revolution (Wael Ghonim).

[MisterD]

I'm thinking that what we are seeing is unprecedented.

(snip)

Yes, I'm thinking, alright, I'm wondering what everyone else is thinking...

Me? I'm thinking this is kind of similar to the dominos of the former soviet block toppling...in some of these countries we'll get real democracy and in others the population will find themselves drawn to elect some former military strongman type who will bend the rules around to suit himself (c.f Vlad Putin)

[Edbear]

Me? I'm thinking this is kind of similar to the dominos of the former soviet block toppling...in some of these countries we'll get real democracy and in others the population will find themselves drawn to elect some former military strongman type who will bend the rules around to suit himself (c.f Vlad Putin)

Well, the former Soviet Block was a union of countries with their own local governments who seceeded from the Union. What we have here are individual countries breaking down within themselves, rather more precarious. Even the USA and Australia with a statehood would be different, though more disrupting than the USSR breakup.

We are seeing the common people in the street, revolting against their governments, and the fact that so many are prepared to die in totalitarian countries is unprecedented. Imagine if China, where there is some unrest already in the news, collapsed in the same way?

Of course my thoughts are that this situation has been very accurately foretold and is of little surprise to me.

[MisterD]

Well, the former Soviet Block was a union of countries with their own local governments who seceeded from the Union. What we have here are individual countries breaking down within themselves, rather more precarious.

It wasn't just the USSR, it was other supported and aligned countries...and it was the fact that the Kremlin didn't or couldn't stop communist regimes in places like East Germany and Czechoslovakia folding that gave people in places like Georgia and Estonia the confidence to take on their own governments.

That's is how it's similar, people see what their neighbours have acheived and it gives them the confidence that they can do it to. "Unprecedented" it is not.


Of course my thoughts are that this situation has been very accurately foretold and is of little surprise to me.

Of course my thoughts are that it's a very easy thing to predict will happen at some point (Wars! Earthquakes! Rising Milk Prices!) and when the Roman empire was breaking up your equivalents were probably proclaiming it as fulfillment of exactly the same prophecies...

[Indiana_Jones]

Sharif don't like it...

-Indy

[Edbear]

It wasn't just the USSR, it was other supported and aligned countries...and it was the fact that the Kremlin didn't or couldn't stop communist regimes in places like East Germany and Czechoslovakia folding that gave people in places like Georgia and Estonia the confidence to take on their own governments.

That's is how it's similar, people see what their neighbours have acheived and it gives them the confidence that they can do it to. "Unprecedented" it is not.



Of course my thoughts are that it's a very easy thing to predict will happen at some point (Wars! Earthquakes! Rising Milk Prices!) and when the Roman empire was breaking up your equivalents were probably proclaiming it as fulfillment of exactly the same prophecies...

Notwithstanding that, the simple fact is that it was very accurately and in some detail foretold a long time before the world was even structured as it is. It's easy in hindsight to say, "Oh, yes, anyone could have predicted that at some point!" But the fact is, no-one else did and the events have taken everyone by surprise. I'd challenge you to predict even three years ahead, let alone three thousand, which is the case here. And that it's happening at the time it was said to happen as well.

Could anyone, accurately predict even the next ten years?

[MisterD]

Notwithstanding that, the simple fact is that it was very accurately and in some detail foretold a long time before the world was even structured as it is.

Come on then, money where mouth is time, give us a reference to these oh-so-accurate prophecies and we can all have a laugh to take our minds off the Libyans currently being strafed by their own airforce.

[Edbear]

Come on then, money where mouth is time, give us a reference to these oh-so-accurate prophecies and we can all have a laugh to take our minds off the Libyans currently being strafed by their own airforce.

Happy to, but you know what will happen immediately if I do that here... :yes:

The purpose of this thread is to get everyone else's thoughts on the situation and where people think it will lead.

[MisterD]

Happy to, but you know what will happen immediately if I do that here... :yes:

So post it *there* yourself.

[Edbear]

So post it *there* yourself.

Will do, I had a thought to post "there" anyway about something similar.

[oldrider]

Worldwide civil disorder may soon prove to be more destructive than the entire arsenal of atomic weapons set off at once!

A destructive chain reaction, once set in motion may prove unstoppable! :Oops:

[superman]

I'd challenge you to predict even three years ahead, let alone three thousand, which is the case here. And that it's happening at the time it was said to happen as well.

Could anyone, accurately predict even the next ten years?

Hmm if I made a prediction would it be more likely to come true in a few years or a few thousand?... :facepalm:

[marie_speeds]

Worldwide civil disorder may soon prove to be more destructive than the entire arsenal of atomic weapons set off at once!

A destructive chain reaction, once set in motion may prove unstoppable! :Oops:

That's why I feed all the stray cats I come across....never know when they may come in handy:shifty:

[Edbear]

That's why I feed all the stray cats I come across....never know when they may come in handy:shifty:

LOL!!! Never thought of it that way...:blink:

[mashman]

Worldwide civil disorder may soon prove to be more destructive than the entire arsenal of atomic weapons set off at once!

A destructive chain reaction, once set in motion may prove unstoppable! :Oops:

Unless you're on an Island that gets its shit together pretty fookin quickly :) and figures out that money is useless at that point in time.

[marie_speeds]

Unless you're on an Island that gets its shit together pretty fookin quickly :) and figures out that money is useless at that point in time.

Well that's us friggen screwed then.....

Here puss puss puss.....