Oil for a two-stroke engine?

[JPWFan]

Hello
I purchased my bike (2009 LML Belladonna) just a short time ago - about to put oil in for the first time. Owners manual says simply put in two stroke oil. I duly purchased some, semi synthetic as opposed to mineral. Some one I spoke to said "Oh no, don't use synthetic - you MUST use mineral". Now I am left wondering what to do...is using semi synthetic going to damage my bike? Should I only ever use mineral?
Thanks in advance for your help...

[Flip]

It's fine, what flavor was the oil?

[Henk]

What flip said.
Have heard people recommend mineral for four strokes for the first x km but that's more about getting the gearbox run in properly and doesn't apply to two stroke engine oil.
You'll also get people saying don't mix mineral and synthetic but thats is also nothing to worry about, a hold over from the days of bean oil which doesn't mix with anything.

[Brian d marge]

a hold over from the days of bean oil which doesn't mix with anything.

Mixes with milk!

Any good quality ( mobil , bp etc ) will be fine

The only bad experience I have had is with cheap ( Suzuki) scooter oil

I used it in me MX bike gave it a spanking and did the bottom end ... my bad ,

Dont worry about things to much

Synthetics with higher specs delay wear a bit more.

Stephen

Scooters coming back in fashion !! I have a geonio cub and its great for zipping round town

Stephen

[Crasherfromwayback]

Have heard people recommend mineral for four strokes for the first x km but that's more about getting the gearbox run in properly and doesn't apply to two stroke engine oil.
You'll also get people saying don't mix mineral and synthetic but thats is also nothing to worry about, a hold over from the days of bean oil which doesn't mix with anything.

Not quite right sorry mate. In a four stroke, it's more about getting the rings to seal against the cyl wall. Two and four stroke gearboxes are pretty much the same, cept a four storkes oil does the engine as well as the gearbox. Gearboxes don't need 'running in', and modern engines don't really either.

Do not mix synthetic and mineral oils either. Especially in a two stroke.

[Brian d marge]

Not quite right sorry mate. In a four stroke, it's more about getting the rings to seal against the cyl wall. Two and four stroke gearboxes are pretty much the same, cept a four storkes oil does the engine as well as the gearbox. Gearboxes don't need 'running in', and modern engines don't really either.

Do not mix synthetic and mineral oils either. Especially in a two stroke.


Can you expand on this as Im with Henk on this one ...

Stephen

[Crasherfromwayback]

Can you expand on this as Im with Henk on this one ...

Stephen

Which part in particular?

[Flip]

Back in the old days when the performance 2 stroke oils were castor oil based they were not missible with petrochemical oils, hell they were hardly soluble with petrol. But now days the synthetic's are simply non-polar hydrocarbons that are perfectly soluble with any other non-polar hydrocarbons.

Nobody would make a oil that was not soluble in other manuifacturers oils. These oils still have to comply with the SAE requirements for 2 stroke motor oils.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Back in the old days when the performance 2 stroke oils were castor oil based they were not missible with petrochemical oils, hell they were hardly soluble with petrol. But now days the synthetic's are simply non-polar hydrocarbons that are perfectly soluble with any other non-polar hydrocarbons.

Nobody would make a oil that was not soluble in other manuifacturers oils. These oils still have to comply with the SAE requirements for 2 stroke motor oils.

There ya go then! I always thought it was more some of the additives etc in the oil that caused problems mixing. Glad I don't have to worry what I use in my dirty old RM400!

[Quasievil]

Synthetics ? what is a Synthetic oil people?
The Manufacturers now call Hydro Cracked group 3 oils Synthetics, which of course they aren't by the original description of what a Synthetic oil is, i.e a PAO (polyalphaolefin), smoke and mirrors now have the market (you guys) believing a group 3 is a synthetic.

p.s a synthetic is compatable with a mineral or a semi synthetic, it wont matter, however you will be reducing any advantage that synthetic oil has over lesser spec'd oils.

[JPWFan]

Hey Guys
Thanks for all the tips, I really appreciate it. I get the feeling I should choose one type or the other and stick to it.

At the risk of seeming like a completely naive noob....I got this masport branded stuff. Masport in my mind is only for mowers, but it did say I could use it for the type of engine I have (only exlcuded use in some marine outboard engines). Should I disregard the brand name and just use it or go with a more recognised brand like Shell or something?

And yes its heaps of fun to ride, talked my workmate's ear off this morning when I got to work :scooter:

[Flip]

Masport won't make the stuff, its probably Mobil or Castrol oil. Given mowers are a low stress low power motor I would suggest the oil will be a basic old fashioned pre mix 2 stroke oil.

The wrong oil is better than no oil, but modern oil are very clever and technical.

[Sable]

Don't use masport shit. Don't use any store brand stuff or oil you get from a gas station as it will foul up your engine. My favourite cheap oil is Spectro Golden semi synthetic. Don't bother with a full synthetic for your scoot, it's a waste of money.

[porky]

Masport won't make the stuff, its probably Mobil or Castrol oil. Given mowers are a low stress low power motor I would suggest the oil will be a basic old fashioned pre mix 2 stroke oil.

The wrong oil is better than no oil, but modern oil are very clever and technical.

But are they as easy to de coke as the mineral based ones?? (serious question as have always been under the impression they arnt) Even if you are running 2 % less by volume.

[Henk]

I'd steer clear of the masport stuff, but from gut feel not science.
The other thing to be aware of is to make sure you get an oil that is specified as suitable for oil injection. Some of the premix only oils are great but are too thick to go through an injector stsyem properly. Have used motul 600 (now called something else) and Castrol TTS with no problems, not the cheapest you can get but done for peace of mind, used them in both oil injected dirt and road bikes with no problems. Suspect your scooter may be a little lower stressed but don't know. Also suspect that if you buy a four liter pack of something decent it will see you out the rest of the year.

[Flip]

But are they as easy to de coke as the mineral based ones?? (serious question as have always been under the impression they arnt) Even if you are running 2 % less by volume.

I would think that the synthetic oil burns better and causes less smoke and coke because the molecule is more consistent and synthetic lubes have less additives in them, (just trust me on this). But I can also see that the coke from Synthetics is minimized but would be harder because there would be a lot less fluffy ash left after combustion.

I do believe you are right.

[Spearfish]

Use any oil with a JASO FC or FD rating, its on the back of the pack.
4 ltr packs work out cheaper than little 1ltr packs.

NEVER use cheap lawn mower oil or outboard oil, your engine wont thank you for it, good oil is important if you spend a lot of time on the motorway.

If you really keen, learn to check the colour of your spark plug it tells you alot of what is going on with your engine.

Make sure the plug is checked at every service those Indian engines can go lean.

[Crasherfromwayback]

If you really keen, learn to check the colour of your spark plug it tells you alot of what is going on with your engine.

.

Good points! Dunno 'bout you, but I've found it way harder to read plugs ever since we went lead free?

[Spearfish]

Good points! Dunno 'bout you, but I've found it way harder to read plugs ever since we went lead free?

I cant read plugs that well but I find 2 smoker plugs easier than 4, plus 2t plugs seem to react to change faster : eg plug chops.

[Quasievil]

good oil is important if you spend a lot of time on the motorway.


Dude good oil is imperative always not just motorways.

[Spearfish]

Dude good oil is imperative always not just motorways.

track days to?...:facepalm:

Yeah your right but some seem to need top oil while others can run ok on good oil.
The LML vespa clone needs top oil.

[STUFF]

Synthetics ? what is a Synthetic oil people?
The Manufacturers now call Hydro Cracked group 3 oils Synthetics, which of course they aren't by the original description of what a Synthetic oil is, i.e a PAO (polyalphaolefin), smoke and mirrors now have the market (you guys) believing a group 3 is a synthetic.

p.s a synthetic is compatable with a mineral or a semi synthetic, it wont matter, however you will be reducing any advantage that synthetic oil has over lesser spec'd oils.

100%!

If you use Castrol hydrocracking it is not quality. This is not a full synthetic. Squeezed out of oil slops that were able to sell and as for the quality! Mobile 2 stroke too expensive and not suitable. "Ipon" very good! "Elf" too! Best MOTUL Scooter Expert (tehnosintez) in my opinion.

And no mineral! Mineral oil lubricates the bad, bad burns, settles a swamp in the exhaust (sludge) Result - clogged muffler (exhaust) and a dead engine! oil-free bearings, crankshaft and showered in the carbon. Carbon saws and erases all the mechanisms of friction!

Over 10 years of practice, scooters die of 3 reasons. (If not China)
1. Air filter (dust)
2. bad oil! (Bully, overheating)
3. Dumb driver

Use oil for lawn mowers or outboard motor boats can not. You will be able to go, but these oils work for other conditions.
Additional equipment (chainsaw, gasoline generators ...) the constant speed range, straight exhaust! (Often mix oil)
Outboard motors - linear load, cooling water, a consequence of lower temperature, no air filter, high humidity, strong exhaust back pressure, the additional conditions to reduce pollutants in the water.

If you thought It seems like the oil it, and in Zimbabwe the same oil. And then the questions, "think the carburetor is dirty, have to adjust the" ... but there was no compression, stuck rings and crankshaft bearings for jumping like a kangaroo in the desert! Overhaul or dump! You see the huge eyes in amazement ... But yesterday it no bad driving!?

Evil is accumulated gradually, but goes out one moment!

Scooters like children for me :yes: