Should Katman shut the fuck up?

[Maha]

then you fail cause you fail the reasonable part of your statement.

You should check 'View Poll Results'...:facepalm:

[Ender EnZed]

yes, but now apply the percentages. The cop over the hill was he more at fault than the guy on the bike? The asian 4wd driver who after being followed by two bikes trying to pass her pulls over on the straight piece of road without indications, what percentage of the blame can REASONABLY be on the rider for thinking she pulled over to let them past, remember the front wheels don't turn until the last second, she doesn't turn her wheels and then stop as soon as the wheels turn she is gone. No body language, body language would imply turning the body no she just moves the hands as she pushes the right foot down. Katman 'fault' is that he seems to make it always 100% the rider, therefore no discussion on other things that can improve safety.

Percentages and blame are only of any practical use whatsoever in a court case. You don't need to be 100% at fault in an accident to avoid it 100%.

[Pussy]

Generally, if you're involved in a motorcycle accident, it hurts. Doesn't matter if you were in the right or wrong.
To me, it makes a lot of sense to try one's best to avoid being involved in a motorcycle accident. No point in being right but sore!

[MarkH]

Generally, if you're involved in a motorcycle accident, it hurts. Doesn't matter if you were in the right or wrong.
To me, it makes a lot of sense to try one's best to avoid being involved in a motorcycle accident. No point in being right but sore!

That is a sentiment that I can agree with, and reading it doesn't piss me off - if only Katman could improve his style to achieve a similar affect.

[oneofsix]

You should check 'View Poll Results'...:facepalm:

Many posts back I addressed that mistake. Message often valid, delivery and timing screwed, tact missing. Thought he might be able to learn :facepalm:

[Maha]

Many posts back I addressed that mistake. Message often valid, delivery and timing screwed, tact missing. Thought he might be able to learn :facepalm:

No, he wanted to gauge his support, thats all it was.

[oneofsix]

No, he wanted to gauge his support, thats all it was.

then his question was badly worded, no surprises there I guess (now)

[Usarka]

It is NOT opinion to state that a bit of fault lies with all participants in a crash.
It IS opinion to state the same is true for ALL crashes.
Neither myself, nor KM has ever said the second.

One of us is on crack because that makes no sense what so ever and seems to be the normal spohist contradictory argument we hear from the other goose.

Hopefully it's me that's on crack though :woohoo:

[avgas]

So what you are saying is that, ultimately, drongos are useless...
Nope my main point is that there is a space between drongo and chicken. Being either a drongo or a chicken is a bad thing so my recommendation is that people don't be either drongo or chicken. But something in between.

[terbang]

Not because of his message, but because the whiney way he delivers it kills it's impact.

[The Stranger]

Not because of his message, but because the whiney way he delivers it kills it's impact.


What actually is his message?

Because to me it looks like - You dumb fuck you had an accident and ruined for all of us. Stop being human and making mistakes.

Did I get that right?

[Katman]

What actually is his message?

Because to me it looks like - You dumb fuck you had an accident and ruined for all of us.

That's close Noel but probably a bit harsher than I'd put it.


Stop being human and making mistakes.


Once again close, but more along the lines of - stop being so lazy and try harder.

[The Stranger]

That's close Noel but probably a bit harsher than I'd put it.



Once again close, but more along the lines of - stop being so lazy and try harder.

Humans criticising humans for being human kind of smacks of hypocrisy from where I sit.

[Katman]

Humans criticising humans for being human kind of smacks of hypocrisy from where I sit.

So if you saw a human making the same mistake over and over and over again, you'd sit there and say nothing Noel?

'Cos that smacks of someone with their head up their arse.

[Usarka]

You seem to be managing quite well......

[Pussy]

That is a sentiment that I can agree with, and reading it doesn't piss me off - if only Katman could improve his style to achieve a similar affect.

Trust me, you won't get a box of chocolates and a bunch of flowers with Katman's message.
You will, however, get an easy-to-understand-language message

[BoristheBiter]

One of us is on crack because that makes no sense what so ever and seems to be the normal spohist contradictory argument we hear from the other goose.

Hopefully it's me that's on crack though :woohoo:

Hope its him, i have no idea what he meant by it either.
Unless i'm on crack too and don't know it.

[Number One]

No, he wanted to gauge his support, thats all it was.

rah rah...
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_k081mcpf8ew/TVFlnl2EHiI/AAAAAAAAN0U/9IAdjkyPFbk/s1600/ugly_cheerleaders_36.jpg

This thread is the sober version of this thread (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/136375-Who-s-the-most-irritating-prick-on-KB)

Are you feeling the love yet or is another poll in order?

[Grubber]

It is NOT opinion to state that a bit of fault lies with all participants in a crash.
It IS opinion to state the same is true for ALL crashes.
Neither myself, nor KM has ever said the second.

Oh yes it is. There was no "BIT" as you put it when i got hit by the 4 x 4. Trust me on that one...
If someone runs into you without any notice then it is TOTALLY their fault. How the fuck can it be anything to do with the one that was hit...fuck me!
If you're sitting at a set of lights and some moron rear ends you at 50kph, how the fuck is that your fault. Were you just supose to stay at home that particular night,,,what the???:gob:
The fact is that there will always be someone or both in some cases at fault for an accident. It is only opinion that there is a bit of fault in all parties involved in a accident, and the reason for that is, i have had an accident where it was nothing to do with me, and i have court documents to prove it.
Do you think you can find the logic in that or are you just too busy blowing your horn right now?

[MSTRS]

It is NOT opinion to state that a bit of fault lies with all participants in a crash.
It IS opinion to state the same is true for ALL crashes.
Neither myself, nor KM has ever said the second.


One of us is on crack because that makes no sense what so ever and seems to be the normal spohist contradictory argument we hear from the other goose.

Hopefully it's me that's on crack though :woohoo:


Hope its him, i have no idea what he meant by it either.
Unless i'm on crack too and don't know it.

Just how simple does it have to be, to be understood?

In most crashes, the participants have contributed.
In a few crashes, one party did nothing to contribute and could not avoid involvement.

Is that easier to understand?


Oh yes it is. There was no "BIT" as you put it when i got hit by the 4 x 4. Trust me on that one...
If someone runs into you without any notice then it is TOTALLY their fault. How the fuck can it be anything to do with the one that was hit...fuck me!
If you're sitting at a set of lights and some moron rear ends you at 50kph, how the fuck is that your fault. Were you just supose to stay at home that particular night,,,what the???:gob:
:facepalm:

[Maha]

rah rah...

This thread is the sober version of this thread (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/136375-Who-s-the-most-irritating-prick-on-KB)

Are you feeling the love yet or is another poll in order?

Might have to wait till at least June 3rd for him to post 'Is my Cock Worth Sucking' poll.

[Katman]

Humans criticising humans for being human kind of smacks of hypocrisy from where I sit.

Actually Noel, if you're that blase about people making mistakes and having accidents why are you involved with RRRS?

[The Stranger]

So if you saw a human making the same mistake over and over and over again, you'd sit there and say nothing Noel?

'Cos that smacks of someone with their head up their arse.

Yes, one would imagine if a human was making the same mistake over and over they would have their head up their arse.

Would I say nothing?
No, I would tap them (as in approach them on the quiet) and offer them some assistance in whatever it is they are attempting to do - assuming I had the knowledge and wherewithal to assist in the first place.

But that is not the situation here anyway is it so it's largely moot.

[The Stranger]

Actually Noel, if you're that blase about people making mistakes and having accidents why are you involved with RRRS?

Blase? Where am I blase?
I'm all for education - if that's what people want (as opposed to ramming it down their throat). The problem with education after the fact (or the katman approach) is that it requires the fact to happen to get educated. Kind of defeats the purpose as I see it.

But I do recognise that people aren't perfect. I'll expect perfection of others when I am able to deliver it myself.

[Katman]

But I do recognise that people aren't perfect. I'll expect perfection of others when I am able to deliver it myself.

I've never asked for perfection either Noel.

I've only ever asked for a vast improvement.

[Usarka]

Any more changes in tune you'll need a conductor.

[Katman]

Might have to wait till at least June 3rd for him to post 'Is my Cock Worth Sucking' poll.

Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned, ay Mark?

[scissorhands]

Would the real KB dark father please stand up

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRMh5opBRJ4GWiIPsODaioS9AFIe7tXj Zdwhpz2-fxz5trS59IsvD_NDLS3

[Genie]

Humans criticising humans for being human kind of smacks of hypocrisy from where I sit.

God, I love a good smack! Don't You?

[Crasherfromwayback]

Can we start a poll on how many pages this poll will go for?

[gatch]

I think what you are trying to achieve is the definitely for the best. But your manner of going about it sucks ass. Imagine a guy who stands outside a gun store, shooting rounds up into the air for a while.. Reckon he'd sell anything ?

If you expect people to change and stop being fuckwits, then perhaps you should try to change your tact and stop coming across as a cunt yourself.

I'm all for plain speaking, but a lot aren't. And you are not going to convince people if you get their backs up by abusing them for their mistakes. Have you ever read Carnegies book "how to win friends and influence people" ? If you have, read it again, you might have missed something.

[Genie]

Can we start a pole on how many pages this pole will go for?

Would that be like pole dancing? I like that too!

[Crasherfromwayback]

Would that be like pole dancing? I like that too!

Polish even!!

[Berries]

Might have to wait till at least June 3rd for him to post 'Is my Cock Worth Sucking' poll.

Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned, ay Mark?
The more I read this thread the more I think you two should just get a room.

[Katman]

The more I read this thread the more I think you two should just get a room.

It's ok, Mark's just my latest stalker.

[Berries]

As for the Coroner's report on the Daniel accident. It is out, as to why it is not on here? I will leave that up the many to figure out.
A quick Google found it in post 5 here - http://www.ulysses.org.nz/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=384. Not being a member I can't view it, but interesting reading all the comments. First time I have seen that forum - a bit genteel compared to KB.

EDIT - Can that, found the report somewhere else.

[Maha]

A quick Google found it in post 5 here - http://www.ulysses.org.nz/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=384. Not being a member I can't view it, but interesting reading all the comments. First time I have seen that forum - a bit genteel compared to KB.

EDIT - Can that, found the report somewhere else.

Its there as a pdf...

[Katman]

Its there as a pdf...

http://www.ulysses.org.nz/accident-reports/Coroner%27s-report-Papakura.pdf

[Mom]

What a shame on many levels.

Interestingly I did not realise that Katman was so insecure he needed validation of his stance on here. FFS, he has defended it over the years with staunch persistance, sheer doggedness and frank abuse! He knows there are many that support his beliefs, he also knows they sometimes counsel him to deliver it a bit more smoothly. Sad times to see he needs to show his insecurity so baldly on here. Steve, STFU! The poll is pathetic, you are better than that.

To now have posted the coronors report about Daniel just really shows how little respect you have for your fellow being.

This report has been public for many, many, months :yes:

If you were so "interested" how come you have taken this long to post it?

I feel terribley for this family! They tried to preserve Daniels innocense (and no doubt disaggree with some of the findings of the coroner) and have been dealt yet another blow.

Let me be the first to say, I have defended Daniels innocense, and have blamed the WRB for his death time and time again. In fact the coronor says he died as a result of collision with the WRB so I have no problem defending my stance.

Were there mitigating circumstances that may have prevented his death? Certainly. Fact of the matter, he died as a result of a hind quarter amputation, caused by the WRB he hit after falling from his bike for unexplained reasons.

Happy now Steve?

[Katman]

Let me be the first to say, I have defended Daniels innocense, and have blamed the WRB for his death time and time again. In fact the coronor says he died as a result of collision with the WRB so I have no problem defending my stance.

Were there mitigating circumstances that may have prevented his death? Certainly. Fact of the matter, he died as a result of a hind quarter amputation, caused by the WRB he hit after falling from his bike for unexplained reasons.



Did you read paragraph 69 Anne?

[Mom]

Did you read paragraph 69 Anne?

Yep, I have read the entire thing, many, many times. I did it months ago. I have nothing more to say about it.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Did you read paragraph 69 Anne?

Are you trying to tell us all, that when you were younger, you never went over the speed limit? That you never made mistakes?

[Katman]

Are you trying to tell us all, that when you were younger, you never went over the speed limit? That you never made mistakes?

Throughout my life I've tried to make a habit of accepting and owning up to my mistakes.

[jazfender]

Throughout my life I've tried to make a habit of accepting and owning up to my mistakes.

To be fair, it's difficult to do that when you're deceased.

[Crasherfromwayback]

I've tried to make a habit of accepting and owning up to my mistakes.

Ok, so maybe we're getting somewhere. You're admitting you're only human then right? Certain humans have, and will always push the 'boundries'. Some of them get away with it and are lucky enough to grow old, some aren't and die way too young.

But Valentino Rossi could've been killed as a wild youth riding scooters through his local village as a runaway kid! Don't think I'm condoning needless loss of life, as I'm not and never will. But unless you plan to lobby for the human race to be wrapped in cotton wool forever, the wild ones are gonna have accidents. I've had plenty, most my fault entirely. That's why I went racing. To take it off the street.

We can only do our best to guide them towards chanelling/using their skills in the correct time/place, but being young, they ain't always gonna listen. But often being nice to them helps them listen. In my experience anyway. Talking down to them, like a big old nasty headmaster, will more often than not, make them rebel and go even harder to show you they know best.

[Spearfish]

To be fair, it's difficult to do that when you're deceased.


So that means not doing one often leads to the other.

[Katman]

But often being nice to them helps them listen. In my experience anyway. Talking down to them, like a big old nasty headmaster, will more often than not, make them rebel and go even harder to show you they know best.

Perhaps it's time more of the 75% stepped up and started trying to get the message across in a more palatable manner.

[jazfender]

So that means not doing one often leads to the other.

yeah, also means some are shit out of luck the first time.

[Spearfish]

yeah, also means some are shit out of luck the first time.

I wonder what someone crashing runs out of first? :blink:
(poor taste?):facepalm:

[Crasherfromwayback]

Perhaps it's time more of the 75% stepped up and started trying to get the message across in a more palatable manner.

Maybe so...but in my view, there's more than just the one message you more often than not try to 'hammer' home.

[Crasherfromwayback]

I wonder what someone crashing runs out of first? :

Normally skin. Then flesh. All depends on what they hit next. Sometimes luck.

[Berries]

My bad for taking it off topic. Maha posted comments about it and yet the report hadn't been discussed on here. I thought that very odd considering the volume of comments that had been written about that sad night for all involved. When it comes to crashes, any crashes, you have to close the loop to see what took place. KB is full of hearsay and BS. If you know the facts then perhaps, just perhaps, you might take them onboard and not become another statistic.


To now have posted the coronors report about Daniel just really shows how little respect you have for your fellow being.

This report has been public for many, many, months?
Which surprises me even more that it has not been discussed on here. Surely we can all learn something from that report?

[Crasherfromwayback]

Which surprises me even more that it has not been discussed on here. Surely we can all learn something from that report?

I'm all for it. As long as it's done with tact, as you never know who's reading it.

[BoristheBiter]

I'm all for it. As long as it's done with tact, as you never know who's reading it.

So am I but I don't think this is the thread for it.

[Flip]

I'm all for it. As long as it's done with tact, as you never know who's reading it.

Katman likes pissing on folks from the proverbial moral high ground, he then claims its raining. It's sport to him.

[Crasherfromwayback]

So am I but I don't think this is the thread for it.

I agree with you.

[Spearfish]

Normally skin. Then flesh. All depends on what they hit next. Sometimes luck.

To close to the bone..no pun intended.

[Spearfish]

I agree with you.

It will just turn into a shyt fight, the best you could hope for is a bit of humour in amongst the frothing.

[Katman]

It will just turn into a shyt fight, the best you could hope for is a bit of humour in amongst the frothing.

I'll tell you what, I'll stay right out of it.

(You'll have to find your humour elsewhere though).

[Spearfish]

I'll tell you what, I'll stay right out of it.

(You'll have to find your humour elsewhere though).


Your assuming your the only supply of froth?

With the event documented in the coroners report I see at least 4 corners to the boxing ring, two are diametrically opposed.

[Genie]

Your assuming your the only supply of froth?

With the event documented in the coroners report I see at least 4 corners to the boxing ring, two are diametrically opposed.

hmmm, interesting, I do like the way you have with words....

now back to the topic, should Katman Shut The Fuck Up....seems like it's a resounding NO.

So, Katman, type away, share your opinions with all....just insert a little tact perhaps.

and, from me on my Moral Highground, I would suggest that all on here have some respect not only for themselves but for the many others that read your words.

[StoneY]

Which surprises me even more that it has not been discussed on here. Surely we can all learn something from that report?

I had a copy of that report ages ago, decided it was not 'Kiwibiker' material but made it known anyone who wanted to read it could PM me

More tact, yes.
Less direct honesty (even when his strong opinions come across to harsh?) no.

The world needs katman
(I cant believe I actually said that...lol)

:-)

[Katman]

Your assuming your the only supply of froth?

With the event documented in the coroners report I see at least 4 corners to the boxing ring, two are diametrically opposed.

I can't imagine anyone having the backbone to start the thread anyway.

While we continue to place more importance on not running the risk of upsetting a few people, over and above learning valuable lessons from other peoples mistakes, motorcycling will continue to suffer.

[MSTRS]

Maybe so...but in my view, there's more than just the one message you more often than not try to 'hammer' home.
The message contains many parts, and can be delivered in many ways....but in the end, it all boils down to the one thing
Be responsible in, and for, your actions.


I had a copy of that report ages ago, decided it was not 'Kiwibiker' material but made it known anyone who wanted to read it could PM me

Must have missed that.
Yes, this is the wrong thread for it, but I don't see why it isn't KB material. WRT to KB and it's members, this crash/death affected a lot of people, who did a lot of work and soul-searching over the (perhaps erroneous) causes of it. For the whole thing to fade into history without 'real' answers would be a shame.
In terms of KM and his message, many of us looked for anything other than rider error to be the cause of that tragedy. Who of us knew about the tinted visor, for a start?

[Crasherfromwayback]

, it all boils down to the one thing
Be responsible in, and for, your actions.



Bet you've never seen me argue that one!

[Spearfish]

The message contains many parts, and can be delivered in many ways....but in the end, it all boils down to the one thing
Be responsible in, and for, your actions.


Must have missed that.
Yes, this is the wrong thread for it, but I don't see why it isn't KB material. This crash/death affected a lot of people, who did a lot of work and soul-searching over the (perhaps erroneous) causes of it. For the whole thing to fade into history without 'real' answers would be a shame.
In terms of KM and his message, many of us looked for anything other than rider error to be the cause of that tragedy. Who of us knew about the tinted visor, for a start?

So there we go first lesson learnt, I can be accused of being caught out a few times with a tinted visor in low viability conditions and being to blasé about changing over.

So was this a very indirect form of education?
I'm not so sure how indirect though I got a lot out of that coroners report.

[Crasherfromwayback]

I can't imagine anyone having the backbone to start the thread anyway.

While we continue to place more importance on not running the risk of upsetting a few people, over and above learning valuable lessons from other peoples mistakes, motorcycling will continue to suffer.

Oi...I take that as a challange! I'm gonna give it some thought, and see if I can think of a way to openly discuss it without it getting nasty.

[StoneY]

Oi...I take that as a challange! I'm gonna give it some thought, and see if I can think of a way to openly discuss it without it getting nasty.

On ya Pete
Good to see this thread is leading to a more willing attitude to have discussions...from all quarters.

I think, if Katman takes one thing from this thread it will be to use a more moderate approach.
And if we all can forget the past flame wars, we may (I say may) all make progress toward finding answers to hard questions, ones we do NOT like asking.

[Crasherfromwayback]

I think, if Katman takes one thing from this thread it will be to use a more moderate approach.
.

Don't get too carried away mate!

[StoneY]

Don't get too carried away mate!

Aw man....was thinking of a big hug fest mate........ go on ya know ya wanna....

;)

[Nasty]

Oi...I take that as a challange! I'm gonna give it some thought, and see if I can think of a way to openly discuss it without it getting nasty.


On ya Pete
Good to see this thread is leading to a more willing attitude to have discussions...from all quarters.

I think, if Katman takes one thing from this thread it will be to use a more moderate approach.
And if we all can forget the past flame wars, we may (I say may) all make progress toward finding answers to hard questions, ones we do NOT like asking.

I think that discussion is reasonable taking into account the post from Welsh Wizard http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/59748-A-personal-request-to-all-KBers ... flame wars etc will be abolished and cause this to be PD'd according to site rules. the report is very interesting reading with a lot of absord and gain understanding from.

remember - any discussions do need to take into account that this young man had family - and they loved him, and still very much do.

[Crasherfromwayback]

I think that discussion is reasonable taking into account the post from Welsh Wizard http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/59748-A-personal-request-to-all-KBers ... flame wars etc will be abolished and cause this to be PD'd according to site rules. the report is very interesting reading with a lot of absord and gain understanding from.

remember - any discussions do need to take into account that this young man had family - and they loved him, and still very much do.

Thanks for showing us that.

[MSTRS]

... I can be accused of being caught out a few times with a tinted visor in low viability conditions....

Not so in this case...
I'd dearly like a thread to discuss the issues (all of them) raised in the report but, like many, am fearful of stepping on (someone's) toes.

[Katman]

Not so in this case...
I'd dearly like a thread to discuss the issues (all of them) raised in the report but, like many, am fearful of stepping on (someone's) toes.

Sometimes you just have to hope that people are wearing steel cap boots.

No-one will die from discussing the topic but there is a very real risk that more could die from not discussing it.

[Spearfish]

remember - any discussions do need to take into account that this young man had family - and they loved him, and still very much do.

My feeling is that this is one corner of the boxing ring I alluded to if this was to be a proper stand alone topic.

They cant and wont be swayed so they will defend with a passion their lost loved one simply because of the old fashioned and noble standpoint of love and support being unconditional!! .
I suspect there are a few on the outer edges of the immediate family who will go into bat for the viewpoint as well.
And their view point isn't wrong.



Unless the debate/chat/discussion is handled very maturely and honestly I cant see any more being learned than what an individual would for themselves reading the report in their own time.

[avgas]

Let me be the first to say, I have defended Daniels innocense, and have blamed the WRB for his death time and time again. In fact the coronor says he died as a result of collision with the WRB so I have no problem defending my stance.
Sorry Mom, your a doll usually.....but in this instance, I'll bite.

If he had come off into a Bulldozer - would then want to ban all bulldozers? Would you sue the construction company for putting a bulldozer, off, but next to the road?

We all make mistakes - I just pray that when we make them, we don't die because of them.

But we can't ride with training wheels.......in a bubble-wrapped world. Riding has risk, we should simply understand and avoid them.

[MSTRS]

The cheesecutter was the big bogey in Daniel's case. Probably unfairly, in this case.
It is all about perceptions, but who of us can honestly say that they're not even just a little nervous when riding adjacent to these barriers?

The problem comes when they are installed in places where the alternative holds a better chance for riders.

[Spearfish]

Sorry Mom, your a doll usually.....but in this instance, I'll bite.

If he had come off into a Bulldozer - would then want to ban all bulldozers? Would you sue the construction company for putting a bulldozer, off, but next to the road?

We all make mistakes - I just pray that when we make them, we don't die because of them.

But we can't ride with training wheels.......in a bubble-wrapped world. Riding has risk, we should simply understand and avoid them.

see post 325

[StoneY]

The cheesecutter was the big bogey in Daniel's case. Probably unfairly, in this case.

It is all about perceptions, but who of us can honestly say that they're not even just a little nervous when riding adjacent to these barriers?

The problem comes when they are installed in places where the alternative holds a better chance for riders.

Yep, speed was the reason for this one BUT I definitely feel the pucker factor when riding anywhere near a WRB...having said that one saved mine and Kelly's skins once in Upper Hutt when a drunk tried to drive through one near \moonshine \bridge

[avgas]

see post 325
Why?

Its not personal - its generic.
As for reading a report about how a motorcyclist died on a WRB. No thanks - I fail to see how it will improve my relationship with them. We have a safe relationship already. I avoid them as much as possible, they don't move (as much as possible).

[Maha]

Sorry Mom, your a doll usually.....but in this instance, I'll bite.

If he had come off into a Bulldozer - would then want to ban all bulldozers? Would you sue the construction company for putting a bulldozer, off, but next to the road?

We all make mistakes - I just pray that when we make them, we don't die because of them.

But we can't ride with training wheels.......in a bubble-wrapped world. Riding has risk, we should simply understand and avoid them.

Conditions/Rider/vehicle...the three components looked at closely by any SCU investigation....we know how he died, we also now know why he died.
Avoidable?... in this case yes it was.

[Mort]

Yes.... you've made your point Katman so shut the fuck up. Maybe pipe up (once) sometime next year if its so important to you..

[Katman]

Avoidable?... in this case yes it was.

And it's sad that it takes a coroner's report to convince so many of you of that.

[MSTRS]

And it's sad that it takes a coroner's report to convince so many of you of that.

To be fair, what we had were some garbled facts, a whole lot of speculation, and hope that it was not something that the rider did. Coupled with a general uneasiness about WRB.

[MarkH]

http://www.ulysses.org.nz/accident-reports/Coroner%27s-report-Papakura.pdf

I don't want to upset anyone, but I'd like to thank Katman for posting this - I hadn't been aware that it was available so after this post I read through the whole thing. I found it very sad reading about the death of a young man that was so full of life and enjoying riding bikes - but I think that understanding how something like this can happen does help others to think about their own choices.

I noticed that the only recommendation that the coroner had was that the authorities should look into whether there should be any regulations on the use of tinted visors at night. I would hope that most bikers wouldn't need regulations and would understand the need to see as well as possible when riding - but maybe there are some that need to be told, I don't know. There ARE regulations for cars as far as window tint goes, it would be good if bikers could do the sensible thing without needing regulations to tell them.

I'm sure that the friends and families of ANY person that dies in an accident would like for others to learn from that accident so that their friends & families aren't left suffering in the same way. In fact you do sometimes see these people on TV appealing to others to learn from the incident and not drink & drive or run from police or text while driving or whatever.

[AllanB]

76% support for the big K-man.

So - where do a I place an order for a size M T-shirt featuring the Katman Appreciation Team (K.A.T.) logo?

[ducatilover]

76% support for the big K-man.

So - where do a I place an order for a size M T-shirt featuring the Katman Appreciation Team (K.A.T.) logo?
Katman Is True, Katman Appreciation Team :facepalm:

[merv]

Hey at least the Suzuki frame has come out of this story OK.

[MSTRS]

Katman Understands No Thing ... has a certain ring to it.
:facepalm:

[AllanB]

Katman Understands No Thing ... has a certain ring to it.
:facepalm:

Hang on that would be ..... K.U.N ......... :shit:

[MSTRS]

Some would say - perfect. :innocent:

[MSTRS]

Thanks John, but I'm far from it.

Aye, she's a hard road finding the perfect ...
But we keep trying, huh?

[Mom]

Arse licking, sycophancy demonstrating, absolute, sick making thread!

[Fatt Max]

76% support for the big K-man.

So - where do a I place an order for a size M T-shirt featuring the Katman Appreciation Team (K.A.T.) logo?

Could always have Katman Really Appreciates Publicity, or K.R.A.P for short

Or Katmans Unified Notification Team....I'll leave that one to you...

I said no by the way cos I've met him and I like him, but not in that 'special' way....

[Mom]

Arse licking, sycophancy demonstrating, absolute sick making thread!

No, not bitter at all Steve, but thanks for asking.

I really, honestly think this thread is not your best work, and in my humble opinion, shows more about your insecurities than advances your cause, which for the most part everyone agrees with anyway.

[Katman]

Arse licking, sycophancy demonstrating, absolute sick making thread!

Fuck Anne, ever since MAG-NZ gave you and Mark the arse you've both been really weird.

[Mom]

Fuck Anne, since MAG-NZ gave you the arse you and Mark have been really weird.

Check your facts please, you have that wrong. I resigned my position as President (due to personal circumstances changing), but am still a member of MAG-NZ. Mark has not resigned at all...

FUCK Steve, you need to go have a coffee or something.

[Genie]

hmmm, 24 pages and so much shit being flung....weehee, no wonder I don't watch TV! This is far more comical.

[Katman]

Hey Anne, that's some serious shit in your signature.











Just as well I spell checked before hitting 'Send'.

[AllanB]

Hey Anne, that's some serious shit in your signature.




I think it is something to do with a new Aerobics class ..............

[Mom]

Just as well I spell checked before hitting 'Send'.

Yeah, always good to check your spelling.

Not a problem Steve, I know you love me really :sunny:

[Katman]

I know you love me really :sunny:

Keep telling yourself that Anne.

[Genie]

I love chocolate.

[Maha]

I love wet wipes.

[Genie]

I hope you don't eat them, they wouldn't taste very nice, whereas chocolate, yummmmy.

I also love my motorbike but I don't lick that - much.

[Maha]

Colapop licked my head once....he also drew a smiley face on it...:blink:

[PrincessBandit]

I love wet wipes.

I need some at the moment. Sticky fingers...

[Maha]

I need some at the moment. Sticky fingers...

Chocolate at your house?

[AllanB]

I love grapes (name the movie that line is from - hint Mr Depp stars in it).

[Katman]

I love grapes

They're a pain in the arse.

[PrincessBandit]

They're a pain in the arse.

that's not where I put grapes...

[Katman]

that's not where I put grapes...

Believe me, it's not worth it.

[Pussy]

Believe me, it's not worth it.

It would be better than pineapples....

[Katman]

It would be better than pineapples....

Tell that to the grapes.

[yod]

wow....365 posts of pointless rhetoric

another quality thread brought to you by Kiwibiker :niceone:

[IdunBrokdItAgin]

So, direct questions to Katman, are you going to take notice to the fact that the majority of respondents said that you need to learn tact when delivering your message?

Or are you just going to ignore all the narrative and rely on the result, to your question, which would infer (in it's most simplified sense) that you to can continue on in the same manner?

The reason for asking is that I was wondering whether this poll can lead to some sort of change - in yourself, which is what you so often ask of others.

[Katman]

So, direct questions to Katman, are you going to take notice to the fact that the majority of respondents said that you need to learn tact when delivering your message?

Or are you just going to ignore all the narrative and rely on the result, to your question, which would infer (in it's most simplified sense) that you to can continue on in the same manner?

The reason for asking is that I was wondering whether this poll can lead to some sort of change - in yourself, which is what you so often ask of others.

http://pix.crash.net/motorsport/360/194784.jpg

[IdunBrokdItAgin]

I am what I am

Exactly what I anticipated.

You expect change in others but are unwilling to concede any need to change yourself. There is a word for that........

No further comments are necessary really.

[PrincessBandit]

Exactly what I anticipated.

You expect change in others but are unwilling to concede any need to change yourself. There is a word for that........

No further comments are necessary really.

Wow. Grapes, pineapples and La Cage aux Folles

[PrincessBandit]

A bit obtuse i know. I guess I could have gone with the Popeye option for "I am what I am" (except the teeshirt didn't read "I yam what I yam").

[gammaguy]

People say my delivery is harsh and I agree.

Calling Loosebruce a cock was harsh, but was it as harsh as two motorcycles slamming head-on into each other killing both riders through the stupidity of one of those riders?

Saying Daniel was riding like a cock was harsh, but was it as harsh as the WRB that cut him in half?

Some even say that getting Katiepie to admit to her responsibility for her accident was harsh, but was it as harsh as lying there helpless for hours on end wondering if help was ever going to arrive in time?

Some people here have a strange understanding of the meaning of harsh.


talking of harsh.....

I went to a motorcycle show here in singapore the other weekend,the local traffic cops were giving a talk and video show on motorcycle road safety

all the young guys and chicks were having a good chuckle as the cops warned about the dangers of riding like a dickhead,overtaking rashly,speeding etc,until they showed a video of the aftermath of where some young hero decided to overtake a truck on the inside of a blind corner...yes,I did say INSIDE

seems the truck was oblivious to his presence,and made a left turn into a side road.the biker went under the truck,and came out in two pieces,neatlly chopped in half by a particularlly sharp part of the trucks underbelly.the video was graphic and extremely gruesome.

you could have heard a fucking pin drop after that.

harsh yes,but it got their attention

[Maha]

So, direct questions to Katman, are you going to take notice to the fact that the majority of respondents said that you need to learn tact when delivering your message?



That was and never will be the issue with Katman.
Those that voted 'no' will realise sooner rather that later that Steve is out to please only himself. He periodically needs confirmation of this via an inane social networking forum.
He will be very pleased with the poll results, hungover but pleased.

[onearmedbandit]

Those that voted 'no' will realise sooner rather that later that Steve is out to please only himself.

And you are out to please others? Or are you just the same, like the rest of us.

[Bodir]

How come the loudest voices have not voted? Oh, sorry that's right, like in real life, lets complain about other people choices instead of making your own and show it. How dare I vote.

This thread will never get the {enter username here} approved stamp. Some ego trip is just different than others, as clearly demonstrated here.

For me it shows a lot more than just Katman's behavior and my view on certain users is changing rapidly. Some from what an idiot to - hey they are not that bad, and sadly vice versa :facepalm:

[Nasty]

How come the loudest voices have not voted? Oh, sorry that's right, like in real life, lets complain about other people choices instead of making your own and show it. How dare I vote.

This thread will never get the {enter username here} approved stamp. Some ego trip is just different than others, as clearly demonstrated here.

For me it shows a lot more than just Katman's behavior and my view on certain users is changing rapidly. Some from what an idiot to - hey they are not that bad, and sadly vice versa :facepalm:

I can't see who voted .... so if you can good on you. what i can see is all the people posting in the thread ... and that is about it.

[Ender EnZed]

I can't see who voted ....

Click on the number of votes.

[jasonu]

What a fat head wanker starting a thread about himself and with a pole to boot!!!

[Katman]

This poll was started with the purpose of achieving a number of different results.

At the time it was started I had no way of knowing which way it would swing. Had it swung heavily in favour of the affirmative, that is exactly what I would have done.

I have already given one reason for the poll in the contents of this thread and stated privately to a few on here that another reason was in the hope of gaining a degree of personal encouragement to continue on a task that has often seemed a decidedly futile one - and I make no apologies for gaining that encouragement. (Maha and Mom in particular should know how disheartening it can be to try achieving something with very little display of public support).

The public nature of the poll means that everyone gets to see which side of the line people stand on. Hopefully it will spark debate between individuals in each camp as to why they voted the way they did.

To those who see it as nothing more than an ego driven publicity stunt - hey, that's your own issue to work through.

[Maha]

And you are out to please others? Or are you just the same, like the rest of us.

Pleasing others has always been the best option in my life so far....:innocent:

[Katman]

Pleasing others has always been the best option in my life so far....:innocent:

You're a good little lapdog.

[Mom]

You're a good little lapdog.

And with any luck ,we will fuck ourselves later this evening :killingme

[Berries]

How come the loudest voices have not voted? Oh, sorry that's right, like in real life, lets complain about other people choices instead of making your own and show it.
Probably because there is no 'It's an internet forum, who cares' option. Like the results of any poll on here can be taken seriously.

And taking it back off topic again, there are lots of comments on KB after high profile crashes, most of them uninformed. It seems like perfect sense to me to discuss coroners reports and SCU reports because they are the closest thing you will see to describing what actually happened. I don't think families should come in to it when we are talking about the realities of riding. I'm all for a section on KB where these things can be discussed. I have seen plenty of SCU reports where the final result is somewhat different to the initial media reports and online chatter. If anyone is serious about learning from the errors or mistakes of others then this has to be done.

Back on topic then -

You're a good little lapdog.

And with any luck ,we will fuck ourselves later this evening :killingme
Now you two should get a room.

[scissorhands]

Havnt seen Tank in a while

238155

[merv]

What a fat head wanker starting a thread about himself and with a pole to boot!!!

Who is booting the pole or are you poking someone with it?

[StoneY]

To those who see it as nothing more than an ego driven publicity stunt - hey, that's your own issue to work through.

Ironic after how many times you called me 'The Ego' lol

Good result mate - keep your opinions coming
;)

[Usarka]

To those who see it as nothing more than an ego driven publicity stunt - hey, that's your own issue to work through.

Blame and denial - two common symptoms of pyschological disorders. Lol'd.

[Edbear]

Probably because there is no 'It's an internet forum, who cares' option. Like the results of any poll on here can be taken seriously.

And taking it back off topic again, there are lots of comments on KB after high profile crashes, most of them uninformed. It seems like perfect sense to me to discuss coroners reports and SCU reports because they are the closest thing you will see to describing what actually happened. I don't think families should come in to it when we are talking about the realities of riding. I'm all for a section on KB where these things can be discussed. I have seen plenty of SCU reports where the final result is somewhat different to the initial media reports and online chatter. If anyone is serious about learning from the errors or mistakes of others then this has to be done.

Back on topic then -


Now you two should get a room.

Are you seriously suggesting that the media and online forums get stuff mixed up and wrong...? :gob:

[PrincessBandit]

Are you seriously suggesting that the media and online forums get stuff mixed up and wrong...? :gob:

Wash your mouth out with soap!!

[mashman]

To those who see it as nothing more than an ego driven publicity stunt - hey, that's your own issue to work through.

I voted no. You seem completely insane.

[Quasievil]

I wonder if you came across a biker crash how long it would take you to lecture the poor prick about all of your safety ideals and opinions you certainly have no issue blabbing about them towards people on the site even if they are talking about a different subject.

Frankly I think you should shut the fuck up for a change and play a different tune as your whole online persona is irritatingly BORING!!!.

[superman]

Meeeeoooow

[Kickaha]

How do I change my vote to yes? :whistle:

[Quasievil]

Haven't you got some shit to flog off?

Probably, but its your thread you started it, you asked for opinion and here is mine, if you dont like it dont fucking ask.
you need to play a new record

Oh and Kickaha I know he is a good cunt in real life mate, I have met Katman and will be pleased to again, in the meantime he needs a new song to sing to :yes:

[Flip]

How do I change my vote to yes? :whistle:

We seem to have created a monster. It would be nice to put this Kat back in the bag.

[ducatilover]

I want to go for a ride with Katman, not in the Honda owner way....

[jazfender]

pretty sure the peeps voting no are doing it for the circus rather than the message.

what mashman said, are you fucking crazy?

[Maha]

pretty sure the peeps voting no are doing it for the circus rather than the message.

what mashman said, are you fucking crazy?

Online polls are flawed and I pointed this out earlier.
If you are a sweet tooth and you see two jars of lollies in front of you, one has five lollies in it and the other is full, which one will you go for?

And to think this thread was started in General Bikers...:facepalm:

[MSTRS]

There isn't a forum for Select Bikers?

[jazfender]

Online polls are flawed and I pointed this out earlier.
If you are a sweet tooth and you see two jars of lollies in front of you, one has five lollies in it and the other is full, which one will you go for?

That's a flawed analogy but whatever...

My point was that this particular poll is so far removed from being useful due to the bs that surrounds it that the answer can hardly be anything but yes!

[Maha]

That's a flawed analogy but whatever...

My point was that this particular poll is so far removed from being useful due to the bs that surrounds it that the answer can hardly be anything but yes!

I can pin point the flaw exactly.....3rd May 2011 11:29
Normal transmission will resume shorty...
Thank you for listening.

[Kickaha]

If you are a sweet tooth and you see two jars of lollies in front of you, one has five lollies in it and the other is full, which one will you go for?

I'd check to see if anyone was watching and then take them all

[Swoop]

wow....365 posts of pointless rhetoric

another quality thread brought to you by Katman
Fixed that for ya...

[Cracker]

Mate, you may get dressed in a cat suit and crusade with Jerry Springer style but you aren't hitting the nerve yet.

My take is that probably 20 % of riders should be banned from riding, they are not up to it. It's not a hard task riding a bike but you have to have some key conponents working.
- the risk assessment should be constantly ticking over in the subconsous of the brain. Some people don't have this facility and need to get out of the game and try ice hockey.

- the art of actually riding requires a technically and physically sound plan for the next movement of the bike verses the road. This requires conscious thinking. You are just lazy if you keep fucking this up ,

Whats next ? Money ! If I was an ACC manager looking for a big Christmas bonus I would highlight the slaughter and actual costs to the corporation on two beautiful rides. The Coro loop and the Whangamomona run.
ACC policy changes now will mean these two routes have been abused by motorcyclists so they will only pay out on one incident per person forever. You choose which incident you would like a payout on. Get your own insurance for the rest of your fuck ups.

Whats next ? Personel responsability. Teach your friends, especially the young the correct skills. Tell the bad ones to get out of the game if its a hopeless case. Hampton downs track days are under untilized, why aren't the Coro crowd doing these. Darren could easily set up an ACC sponsored part of that day.

Anyway, the only bike accident I have had is wetting my pants on a poker run. As my hero Forrest Gump said " that’s all I have to say about that"

[Crasherfromwayback]

Anyway, the only bike accident I have had is wetting my pants on a poker run. As my hero Forrest Gump said " that’s all I have to say about that"

And I hope it's the only one you ever have. They're not much fun.

[Mental Trousers]

It's time to draw a line in the sand.

Just wondering if Katman goes with the poll result when the poll completes. In which case, you mistakenly forgot to put an end date. I can fix that for you if you like :innocent:

[jazfender]

Normal transmission will resume shorty...
Thank you for listening.

Actually martians are invading the earth. We're all fucked. :shit:

[marie_speeds]

Actually martians are invading the earth. We're all fucked. :shit:

They're coming to see the great prophet Katman :love: stick with him and you will be saved

[Flip]

Kartman gets an anal probe.

[marie_speeds]

Kartman gets an anal probe.

Who's Kartman?

[BoristheBiter]

Who's Kartman?

That fat kid off Southpark.

[StoneY]

That fat kid off Southpark.

Nah he's Cartman...Eric Cartman.

[oneofsix]

Nah he's Cartman...Eric Cartman.

trust you to know that, respect my authoritar is it Mr President? :yes: :sunny:

[StoneY]

trust you to know that, respect my authoritar is it Mr President? :yes: :sunny:

That's Mistah Presidahnt thank you very much :D

Some just cal me El Presidante... the ego never sleeps!

[oneofsix]

That's Mistah Presidahnt thank you very much :D

Some just cal me El Presidante... the ego never sleeps!

:yes::yes: See you on the 29th :Wink:

[Flip]

Nah he's Cartman...Eric Cartman.

No the r is silent in these cases involving anal acident probing.

[BoristheBiter]

Nah he's Cartman...Eric Cartman.

Is this Katman??

<object style="height: 390px; width: 640px"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/6RoA-ESB_x4?version=3"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/6RoA-ESB_x4?version=3" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="390"></object>

[oneofsix]

Is this Katman??



is he based on Cartman or was Cartman based on him?

[StoneY]

Nah coincidence only. He has an old original Katana so 'Kat - man' for a Katana lover is my understanding
Might be wrong tho....was once that I know of ;)

[Maha]

Out of a possible 100,000 NZ registered motorcycles/ists only 139 hear and understand what Steve has to say.
Kiwibiker is no longer the place if he is passionate about his message.
He has very little effect on here with such a minimal audience.
His/this poll proved that at least.
Perhaps a dedicated website?

Just saying.:corn:

[bogan]

Out of a possible 100,000 NZ registered motorcycles/ists only 139 hear and understand what Steve has to say.
Kiwibiker is no longer the place if he is passionate about his message.
He has very little effect on here with such a minimal audience.
His/this poll proved that at least.
Perhaps a dedicated website?

Just saying.:corn:

but to be fair, only 45 out of that 100,000 think he should shutup :shutup:

:whistle:

[Latte]

but to be fair, only 45 out of that 100,000 think he should shutup :shutup:

:whistle:

What?!.... KB isn't compulsory for all NZ Motorcyclists?


I've been duped :(

[Maha]

but to be fair, only 45 out of that 100,000 think he should shutup :shutup:

:whistle:

True...but that is not what my message is...
What I am saying is, that he is just not reaching his target market on KB.
For instance, there are more Usylles (sp) members than there are active KB posters.

How would MAG or BRONZ get on if their 'listeners' were KB members only?

[StoneY]

How would MAG or BRONZ get on if their 'listeners' were KB members only?

You mean there are others.........??????

:facepalm:

[Maha]

You mean there are others.........??????

:facepalm:

There is such an untapped market out there for those inclined to target a minority group, KB is the corner dairy by comparison.
That is my message, the delivery does not need tweaking.

[Ocean1]

Out of a possible 100,000 NZ registered motorcycles/ists only 139 hear and understand what Steve has to say.


The rest ase busy minding their own business and generally not giving a fuck what some wanker has to say about shit he knows nothing about.


but to be fair, only 45 out of that 100,000 think he should shutup :shutup:

:whistle:

Incorrect.

139 announced that they like hearing him abusing other people. 45 found they could be bothered telling him to shut the fuck up. The rest ase busy minding their own business and generally not giving a fuck what some wanker has to say about shit he knows nothing about.



How would MAG or BRONZ get on if their 'listeners' were KB members only?

How would their membership react if some wanker insisted on telling them at one of their meetings that they're a bunch of arseholes that need to learn how to ride?

[oneofsix]

139 announced that they like hearing him abusing other people. 45 found they could be bothered telling him to shut the fuck up. The rest ase busy minding their own business and generally not giving a fuck what some wanker has to say about shit he knows nothing about.


slight correction, 139 said he doesn't have to shut the fuck up but their reasons for doing so will range from free speech to automatic troll. Been tempted to start a thread about a factious accident just to see how many Katman and co vs anti-Katman posts it could generate :facepalm:

Ride safe :scooter:

[bogan]

Incorrect.

As it was supposed to be (hence the :whistle: 'sarcasm' smiley), applying results from a very poorly sampled subset to the population with no scaling or adjustment is good for drawing fuck all conclusions.

[Maha]

slight correction, 139 said he doesn't have to shut the fuck up but their reasons for doing so will range from free speech to automatic troll. Been tempted to start a thread about a factious accident just to see how many Katman and co vs anti-Katman posts it could generate :facepalm:

Ride safe :scooter:

How would Scribe put it?
The Staus Quo has resumed.
Will be so many other factors to consider and only one will blame rider fault.

[scissorhands]

Every group has rule focused anti socials. They are normally ostracised by group consensus, this one is doing it himself in a clever, subtle attempt to extend their mandate.:shutup:

[Bodir]

A good example of how to revive a thread after days and days of silence :facepalm:

:corn:

[jazfender]

this thread makes me think of a fat chick asking whether she's fat and having pages and pages of dudes responding, some saying no, some saying yes but all trying to fuck her.

[Maha]

this thread makes me think of a fat chick asking whether she's fat and having pages and pages of dudes responding, some saying no, some saying yes but all trying to fuck her.

..and she will remain fat, that will never change..:corn:

[avgas]

What?!.... KB isn't compulsory for all NZ Motorcyclists?


I've been duped :(
The truth behind everything in the internet.

We are all 47 year old sweedish women who come here to pick up some pussy scooter riders.

Or this is the matrix and we are looking for some guy call neon or something

[oneofsix]

The truth behind everything in the internet.

We are all 47 year old sweedish women who come here to pick up some pussy scooter riders.

Or this is the matrix and we are looking for some guy call neon or something

47 year old? hope she aged well cause I thought they were all 18 year olds, just legal :Wink:

[Katman]

And what exactly are you trying to achieve now Mark?

Or have I just become the object of your fantasy?

[scissorhands]

Or this is the matrix and we are looking for some guy call neon or something

The truth will set you free

[yod]

My turn to have the last word.

nah nah nee nah nah :bleh:

[avgas]

47 year old? hope she aged well cause I thought they were all 18 year olds, just legal :Wink:
No you fool, our online personas are 18 year old girls..........

oh wait.....I see where your going with that

Yeah we are all 18 :Wink: :Wink: nudge nudge

[avgas]

My turn to have the last word.

nah nah nee nah nah :bleh:

yeah nah............

[yod]

yeah nah............

yeah :woohoo:

[Bonez]

Has the roof been painted yet!!!!!!!!

[avgas]

Has the roof been painted yet!!!!!!!!
NO NEVER well not yet anyway