Should Katman shut the fuck up?

[Katman]

Simple question really.

And yes, be aware it is a public poll.

It's time to draw a line in the sand.

[MSTRS]

Fuck your poll.
The answer is NO!!!

[sil3nt]

Yes. Don't generally have a problem with what you say. But your like a broken record and you can't change people over the internet.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Nah. My handbag will get all dusty...

[Grubber]

Most definitely. Starting to sound like a whiney little kid.
I'm sure your intentions are honorable, but just a bit too overdone.:violin:

[avgas]

No.

If people don't like it they can fuck off.
This is kiwi biker not International whiner pussy scooter rider
Grow balls, ignore katman......or fuck off.

[zeocen]

I voted no.

Doesn't bother me, if it gets too repetitive I just use my unnatural and amazing ability to skim over to the next post and my day goes on as normal.

[nodrog]

......It's time to draw a line in the sand.

What the fuck has John Kirwan got to do with it?

[Luckylegs]

Nup! (plus some extra chars to fill in stoopid posting length rules and shit)

[DEATH_INC.]

Again I have no problem with your little crusade, but a little more thought where/when you do it is called for.

[White trash]

I agree (to a certain extent) with your message. Just the delivery and repetitiveness is a real drag. Hence my deliberately stirring shit at every opportunity.

[javawocky]

His message (which is fundamentally ok) would come across much better if he used a hint of tact.

[Maha]

Simple question really.

And yes, beware it is a public poll.

It's time to draw a line in the sand.

If the outcome is a resounding YES.......will you?
We all know you will never cease.
I am suprised Steve that you even started this rediculous poll...a 'How popular am I' poll would have been a better title.
Even more suprised that there have been votes placed.
Proves my long standing point that KB polls are a waste of time.
Katman is clever enough to sucker in all the no voters so that they have to add in a provisio.

[Katman]

If the outcome is a resounding YES.......will you?

Absolutely.

[Latte]

There's no option for "Sit on the fence like a big Jesse"

[bogan]

That time of the year again? Wonder what I voted last time :whistle: pity there is no acquire more tact option :innocent:

[oneofsix]

Voted no because I think the message, when appropriate, is good and we do need to ride safe. Like others it is the delivery and timing that needs work. In a way Katman needs a version of his own message targeted at his delivery. Just like he wants the riders to learn rather than give up riding he needs to learn rather than shut up.

[MSTRS]

If you are all honest, do you really think anyone will respond if he his 'message' is a watery version? What if he stops - will someone else see a need to fill the gap? Or if the haranguing stops, what sort of change/s might we see to riding attitudes?
He's only one guy, but he's touched a lot of peoples' nerves and, at the very least, made them take a quick look at themselves.

[Katman]

Bullshit, if thats the case you might as well sign off for good, re-read my now edited post.

I don't really give a fuck what you think of the concept of the poll Mark.

Like I said - it's a line in the sand.

[oneofsix]

If you are all honest, do you really think anyone will respond if he his 'message' is a watery version? What if he stops - will someone else see a need to fill the gap? Or if the haranguing stops, what sort of change/s might we see to riding attitudes?
He's only one guy, but he's touched a lot of peoples' nerves and, at the very least, made them take a quick look at themselves.

watered down version not a watery version. There is a difference. I think people will respond better if his message is delivered with more tact, it doesn't have to be watered down even.

[MSTRS]

watered down version not a watery version. There is a difference. I think people will respond better if his message is delivered with more tact, it doesn't have to be watered down even.

Granted, there have been times in the past where he posted inappropriately. You have surely noted that he stays out of 'those' threads now?
As for watery/watered down - have you seen the DD ads like the 'Mate' one? Shows the drunken git driving into a bridge abutment. This is as in-your-face as tptb are willing to get. At this stage. Put it in KM terms, and he just goes straight to the reality. One of the passenger's head goes bouncing down the road in slo-mo.

[BoristheBiter]

He's only one guy, but he's touched a lot of peoples' nerves and, at the very least, made them take a quick look at themselves.

What so hes like DB then?

And NO i like a good laugh now and then.

[MSTRS]

What so hes like DB then?



It's not nerves that DB is interested in touching...:shit::innocent:

[Paul in NZ]

If you think the message is a valid one yet you feel it's not working you should consider modifing the delivery. Its madness to keep on doing the same thing yet expecting a different result?

On the otherhandl - persistence is a good thing. Look to the gay rights / civil rights movements. It was hard yards at first but turning up and sticking to the message through time DID change the world... You just have to put your steel undies on for the first bit....

[BoristheBiter]

It's not nerves that DB is interested in touching...:shit::innocent:

Sorry, my bad :laugh:

[Fatt Max]

No from me, unless you start talking about:

- The advantages of salad
- How good Arsenal are
- Germans
- Where babies come from

[superman]

Kiwi Biker just wouldn't be the same if Katman no longer provided the countless moments of entertainment, thought provocation and sheer consistency.

Good on ya mate. :yes:

[avgas]

watered down version not a watery version. There is a difference. I think people will respond better if his message is delivered with more tact, it doesn't have to be watered down even.
Waaaaa waaaaa waaaaa
Doesn't matter how the message is structured or what is said.
If people can't ignore - fuck knows how they live in the real work.

Who gives a fuck how they respond? If they don't like it - whats the point in crying about it?
That only works for 1 year olds.

[baptist]

No, it takes two sides to have a debate, even if I do not agree all the time both sides need to be heard.

. One of the passenger's head goes bouncing down the road in slo-mo.

Come on I was just about to bite into my lunch time pie :sick:


No from me, unless you start talking about:

- The advantages of salad - You grow big floppy ears and huge teeth
- How good Arsenal are... erm would rather pull my own eyes out than listen to that
- Germans as for the chip shop bombers see above
- Where babies come from from the Stork of course... everybody knows that:innocent:

[DangerMice]

no way, your advice has saved my arse from getting squashed by a car on at least one occasion

[Bodir]

No from me, unless you start talking about:

- The advantages of salad
- How good Arsenal are
- Germans
- Where babies come from


- Salad is a test whether you are red/green blind. If you eat it you should see a doctor, cause it aint beans or meat!!!!! :psst:

- My arsenal is really good, Twin MG mounts, big ammo boxes etc :ar15:

- I know nothing :facepalm:

- Ok, on the last one you are right :)

[Quasi]

resounding no from me. I dont like the way you deliver your message most of the time, but it is an important message. We all need to remember to ride defensively, all of the time. I personally have looked at and changed the way of ride because of your posts.

[Bodir]

A no from me.

I have voiced my oppinion privatly to Katman when I thought it was out of sync with current behaviour standards.

Otherwise, the meassage is right, the delivery is mostly blunt, so gets read. As soon as there is a reaction there is recognition.

Keep em coming

[MSTRS]

Come on I was just about to bite into my lunch time pie

Given much thought to the meat in there? It doesn't grow on trees in an orchard, you know.
Some find KM and his message deeply disturbing or unpleasant. At the very least, an inconvenient truth they'd rather not have waved in their face.

[yod]

Where's the 'I don't give a flying fuck' option?

Seriously.

[davebullet]

No from me. Your advice is sound. I don't think anyone has a problem with what you say, they just might take exception to the way you say it. Sometimes you give it without being asked. Sometimes you give it when explicitly asked not to.

Either way - if someone stumbles across your posts, it "resonates" with them and helps them stay alive, then who are we to stop it?

PS: I was going to launch into an analogy of "let's all stop eating beef and just eat chicken from now on". Variety is not a choice. It is what nature demands.

[MSTRS]

It's looking pretty good for KM to keep beating us until we prove the govt wrong.

And if anyone still doubts the big stick approach, try this....

If I wanted you to realise that climbing fences was a bad idea and you should stop, what would work?

"Fences are dangerous and you can get hurt by them"

Or

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_1Q3CzPT8QTk/SbP8jJ3HQ9I/AAAAAAAAF2c/jMLO6aJLiT4/s400/impaled_theif.jpg

[Bodir]

...and what is this doing in General Bikers anyway?...
Its a Rave surely?

You start sounding like a broken record, like Katman. One differnce though, he tries to get a good message across.:shutup:

[bastardsquad]

I voted no, and was surprised to see so many likeminded ppl. When I first joined some time ago, I thought KM was a troll, but now I realise it's just 'his way' of getting the point across. You might not like the delivery, but arguments against the message are thin on the ground.....

[wanpo]

I voted yes, not because I don't agree with the message, but how it is often executed.

Going into a thread where someone's injured themselves whether they could have avoided it, and telling them they would be ok if they had only sucked less is kinda bad taste.

Also the majority of the forum knows the message already and are all thinking "Here comes Katman" when reading through said threads.

[MSTRS]

Going into a thread where someone's injured themselves whether they could have avoided it, and telling them they would be ok if they had only sucked less is kinda bad taste.


Bit like the cops sending you a ticket for Careless Causing Injury after you have an off that was your fault.
I'd argue that it's un-necessary because you'd already learned your lesson...but have you? The ticket is just emphasis on the first 'lesson'.

[Spearfish]

No Dr Katz

[racefactory]

No he shouldn't. More power to Katman.

I believe what he has to say is for a good cause and I appreciate that there is someone that feels the need to stand up. People can choose to ignore him or they can go away... it's a message board. If not then there would only be boring bystanders like me. You always need variety and different opinions.

Keep it up, and thanks.

[Maha]

You start sounding like a broken record, like Katman. One differnce though, he tries to get a good message across.:shutup:

At least I make the effort an put in an appearance...:corn:

[Flip]

I say no, because the message is important, however timing and delivery is everything. Some times a cold splash of reality does no harm.

I didn't see a "go fuck yourself Katman" button.

[Usarka]

Look at me.

[Spearfish]

It's looking pretty good for KM to keep beating us until we prove the govt wrong.

And if anyone still doubts the big stick approach, try this....

If I wanted you to realise that climbing fences was a bad idea and you should stop, what would work?

"Fences are dangerous and you can get hurt by them"

Or

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_1Q3CzPT8QTk/SbP8jJ3HQ9I/AAAAAAAAF2c/jMLO6aJLiT4/s400/impaled_theif.jpg

You cant tell me you casually came across the pic, what the hell did you type into google to find that?

[willytheekid]

Voted no...but it was a hard call.

Got no problem with good advice, and fully understand and support the message Katman :yes:
...BUT the manner in which you "TRY" to get the message across can some times be a bit....:sick: :girlfight: :motu:

Personally I would LOVE to read a thread from you that actually involves you and your bike or possibly a ride you been on. (You DO ride right?....or is it just the keyboard that gets ridden hard?)

[Fatt Max]

Katman is clever enough to sucker in all the no voters so that they have to add in a provisio...well done Steve you clever bastard.

Whats wrong with that...

There is no way I want to hear about salads, Arsenal, Germans and where babies come from. Cant see a problem really

[MSTRS]

You cant tell me you casually came across the pic, what the hell did you type into google to find that?

Impaled Biker.
I was actually looking for that photo of a someone that hit a fence and got a strainer post up through his groin and out just under his ribs. this one (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y38/overbrook99/blakeimpaled.jpg) But it was crap quality and otherwise, all there was were sticks through calf muscles...not shocking enough. Until I saw that one...

[Banditbandit]

His message (which is fundamentally ok) would come across much better if he used a hint of tact.

Tact ???? In KB ???? Don't make me laugh ... no-one would get it ..

[Flip]

Katman is clever enough to sucker in all the no voters so that they have to add in a provisio...well done Steve you clever bastard.

You and Katman should get together, you both seem to live in a black and white world.

[GPXchick]

No.

If people don't like it they can fuck off.
This is kiwi biker not International whiner pussy scooter rider
Grow balls, ignore katman......or fuck off.

:woohoo: this is great not pussy balls!!!!!!!!

[chasio]

But I But I But I But I But I opps theres that broken record again...anyway, where was I?
Salads need dressing, Arsenal dress funny, Germans have no dress sense and babies? well they are just too cute..

Claudia Schiffer choosing a red swimsuit is good dress sense from my perspective. Add in a sizeable carrot and now we're talking (ahem, sorry, back to business)...

As I see it right message but the delivery can lack timing.

And I don't even feel like a sucker (unless it's Claudia in a swimsuit).

[Maha]

You and Katman should get together, you both seem to live in a black and white world.

Not living in a grey world like some is beneficial I agree.

[Banditbandit]

No, definitely not. Often the messages people most need to hear are the ones most people don't want to hear.

Your message has certainly impacted on my riding and I think I'm a little saner on the road - just a little ... but certainly you've effected some behaviouir change in me ..

[Bodir]

At least I make the effort an put in an appearance...:corn:

I didn't take you for a person holding a grudge :bye:

[Katman]

Steve has gone down in my estimation

I'd call that 1-all then.

Your giant sized tantrum over the MAG business has done you no favours.

[Maha]

I didn't take you for a person holding a grudge :bye:

As the Queen said to Katherine, always wear a seatbelt and dont fuck me off....:violin:
Think of it as more of a quip than a grudge, holding a grudge is for school girls.

[avgas]

Katman is clever enough to sucker in all the no voters so that they have to add in a provisio...well done Steve you clever bastard.

There is a lot to be said about someone, whom posts comments in a thread on like this, for someone they clearly dislike.
Especially someone who continues to post in said thread, about a person they dislike.

Are you a creature of habit?

[Maha]

I'd call that 1-all then.

Your giant sized tantrum over the MAG business has done you no favours.

All factual so I am happy.

[Guzzi-Mulisha]

allways helped me out mate, keep it up i say steve

[avgas]

Look at me.
http://chuckysplayhouse.com/e107_plugins/autogallery/Gallery/My%20In%20Box/Look_at_me_when_i'm_talking_to_you_!!.jpg
NO!

[onearmedbandit]

One thing you can't deny Katman of is that he has got almost everyone who participates on this forum regularly thinking about 'the message'. He's provoked all with his not so timely posts, whether defending or attacking his stance, but as proven on this thread one thing most here agree on, motorcyclists need to take responsibility for their actions to ensure a lower accident rate.

[Crasherfromwayback]

One thing you can't deny Katman of is that he has got almost everyone who participates on this forum regularly thinking about 'the message'. He's provoked all with his not so timely posts, whether defending or attacking his stance, but as proven on this thread one thing most here agree on, motorcyclists need to take responsibility for their actions to ensure a lower accident rate.

And that aside...as it says at the top, 'A site for all New Zealand Motorcyclists'.

Sure I've told him to fuck off from the site for good more than once, but there's as much chance of that happening as me doing likewise! Sorry.

[Bodir]

As the Queen said to Katherine, always wear a seatbelt and dont fuck me off....:violin:
Think of it as more of a quip than a grudge, holding a grudge is for school girls.

If you need your collection back, I have them here in my catch bag, just let me know :love:

[Oblivion]

Katman is not all that bad, except it kinda does get a bit disrespectful how you tell every rider who crashes that it was avoidable, right after they mention that they had an off.

[Blackshear]

If I hated him so much, I'd have blocked him.

Having said that, I agree with very little he says, but to each their own.

[schrodingers cat]

If there were no Katman who would fill the void?

[Fatt Max]

If I hated him so much, I'd have blocked him.

Isnt that the answer here. The poll should be "Have You Blocked Katman" rather than Katman having to ask.

Simple, just like that Face thinkgy site. Just block them, dont whinge and fucking whine about them like they are a relative you are stuck with, take your own action and do the block thing.

[MSTRS]

Simple, just like that Face thinkgy site. Just block them, dont whinge and fucking whine about them like they are a relative you are stuck with, take your own action and do the block thing.

Fuck, no! What are you thinking?
That'd be like - I dunno - like - taking responsibility for something that affected you. :shit:
Can't have that now, can we...

[Fatt Max]

Fuck, no! What are you thinking?
That'd be like - I dunno - like - taking responsibility for something that affected you. :shit:
Can't have that now, can we...

Oh yeah, sorry mate, dont know what came over me...

Actually, isnt that what Kate Middleton said on the wedding night...?

[ducatilover]

I vote no. Katman has the right to say whatever the fuck he wants, plus he has a good message.
Just every now and then it lands on peoples toes, but, harden up 'tis the interweb after all.

[MSTRS]

Actually, isnt that what Kate Middleton said on the wedding night...?

More likely she said something along the lines of "Ya dirty gobshite. That was supposed to be IN me."

[PrincessBandit]

No, it takes two sides to have a debate, even if I do not agree all the time both sides need to be heard.


I'm sure the moaners and whiners on here would prefer a mass-debate...


:woohoo: this is great not pussy balls!!!!!!!!

Hahahaha, what's John's balls got to do with it? :facepalm:

[Fatt Max]

More likely she said something along the lines of "Ya dirty gobshite. That was supposed to be IN me."

Cant bling you bruv, fucking classic.......

Ok where were we...??

Oh yes, who wants to cum all over Katman...?.....was that it...?

Sorry....

[Maha]

Cant bling you bruv, fucking classic.......

Ok where were we...??

Oh yes, who wants to cum all over Katman...?.....was that it...?

Sorry....

After veiwing the poll results he probably copped a load of his own.

[MarkH]

I voted yes, not because I don't agree with the message, but how it is often executed.

Going into a thread where someone's injured themselves whether they could have avoided it, and telling them they would be ok if they had only sucked less is kinda bad taste.

Same here - I don't really care if Katman stays or goes and he has every right to post his opinion in these forums if he wants to, but if he's asking . . .

90% of the time I agree with what he's saying and 20% of the time I agree with how he's saying it. But any thread I read about someone's mishap I always try to understand what went wrong and why, then in stomps Katman pissing everyone off and turning the thread into a big slanging match - if it were my choice I'd go with NOT having his inflammatory and insulting posts.

It's a real pity, because I actually found myself on the road doing something BECAUSE Katman had suggested it in a post I'd read. I saw a car stopped on the side of the road - with a driver and with the engine running. Not only did I slow down, but I looked to their front wheels to see if they were turned. Thanks to the mishaps I've read about that were caused by a fuckin' idiot doing a U-turn I used a lot of caution in a situation that I was able to realise had the potential for bad shit happening. Of course they didn't attempt a U-turn and I would have been fine just blasting passed . . . that particular time anyway.


His message (which is fundamentally ok) would come across much better if he used a hint of tact.

My preference (as if anyone gives a fuck what I think) would be that Katman stays, but somehow learns to use a little tact while still giving the message that we are responsible for doing everything we can to ensure our own safety.

[MarkH]

More likely she said something along the lines of "Ya dirty gobshite. That was supposed to be IN me."

I'm pretty sure that what she said was:
"OK then, a deal's a deal, but use lots of lube and go slow"

[AllanB]

Nah - stay on. One day we may learn something!

I'd have to say that I am a closet Katman agreer most of the time. Sometimes the comments are insensitive when some poor bugger died, but even then there is usually a point.

TRUE STORY. A couple of weeks ago I was giving the bike some stick and traveling at a fair pace and I actually had a vision of Katman shaking his head. I slowed down! Good to as there was a camera van a few bends away!

Now I've never meet the fine man but I have a mental picture of many of you that is probably totally inaccurate!

[tri boy]

He's a boring clown, but still, clowns are mildly entertaining, so,he can dribble on as much as he likes.

[Hitcher]

In a world of wishy washy wanking wowsers, we need more Katpeople. All strength to them and theirs.

[Pussy]

I used to get pissed off with Katman.... he's got one of only 20 E27 Katanas!
Since he let me have a ride on his Katana, I've forgiven him....

[Shadows]

I voted no because otherwise I would have to go out and find somebody to replace him on the list of people who fuck me off.

[Mom]

:facepalm: :shutup:

[Coolz]

No.Katman delivers his blunt message with sharp wit.

[PrincessBandit]

Nah - stay on. One day we may learn something!

........

TRUE STORY. A couple of weeks ago I was giving the bike some stick and traveling at a fair pace and I actually had a vision of Katman shaking his head. I slowed down! Good to as there was a camera van a few bends away!

Now I've never meet the fine man but I have a mental picture of many of you that is probably totally inaccurate!
Probably better a kat on your shoulder than a monkey...

p.s. he's a straight shooter, and a fine man, but I'm way better looking, I got the looks of the family :snicker:

[onearmedbandit]

TRUE STORY. A couple of weeks ago I was giving the bike some stick and traveling at a fair pace and I actually had a vision of Katman shaking his head. I slowed down! Good to as there was a camera van a few bends away!

Now I've never meet the fine man but I have a mental picture of many of you that is probably totally inaccurate!

That's it, we need a face to the name. Surely someone has a picture of him? Or is it true that you can't capture his image?

[gammaguy]

GO KATMAN!!!!

And to remove ambiguity-I mean STAY KATMAN!!!!

english is such a confusing language.......

[Number One]

I don't actually give a shit and wonder why the need for the thread in the first place...now 3 pages later it just smacks too much of the last one you posted, though slightly more subtle I guess.

if you really care only for your getting your message out there and don't give a shit what people think (as you regularly insist) then why the need to post for the strokes?




Given all that I voted Yes.

Btw just to clarify I don't want to cum all over Katman...as was suggested by someone earlier in reference to those that voted yes.

[Maha]

Those that voted no and want him to stay can now no longer argue with anything that he says. Even his views on individuals who bin and in some case die. There is no provisio included beside the yes/no vote. You have to enter your own provisio.
He has not stated that its all his views on how motorcyclist conduct themselves on the road right? Thats only how you have interupted his words.
Anyone remember his stance on why young Daniel died on the southern motorway?

[BoristheBiter]

Those that voted no and want him to stay can now no longer argue with anything that he says. Even his views on individuals who bin and in some case die. There is no provisio included beside the yes/no vote. You have to enter your own provisio.
He has not stated that its all his views on how motorcyclist conduct themselves on the road right? Thats only how you have interupted his words.
Anyone remember his stance on why young Daniel died on the southern motorway?

It doesn't say you can't disagree with him, or tell him what you feel, it just says should he shut up.

If thats how you interpret that, then so be it.

[Maha]

It doesn't say you can't disagree with him, or tell him what you feel, it just says should he shut up.

If thats how you interpret that, then so be it.

So the poll has no substance what so ever?
I think I pointed that out earlier.

[Spearfish]

Post ninety four

Katman can not only fill a knitting thread with safety first messages he can fill a thread about whether or not he should be filling threads!

[BoristheBiter]

So the poll has no substance what so ever?
I think I pointed that out earlier.

So if you know what the poll means and said it earlier, why did you just make those comments above?

Are you just feeling lonely and need someone to talk to? :grouphug:

Or is no one just not listening to you?:blank:

[oneofsix]

Those that voted no and want him to stay can now no longer argue with anything that he says. Even his views on individuals who bin and in some case die. There is no provisio included beside the yes/no vote. You have to enter your own provisio.
He has not stated that its all his views on how motorcyclist conduct themselves on the road right? Thats only how you have interupted his words.
Anyone remember his stance on why young Daniel died on the southern motorway?

No. Most who voted no have added a rider. He is free to stay but needs to use more tact and thought. Those that voted no are still free to argue with what he says, he is not perfect and gets it wrong some times.

[Latte]

Those that voted no and want him to stay can now no longer argue with anything that he says. Even his views on individuals who bin and in some case die. There is no provisio included beside the yes/no vote. You have to enter your own provisio.
He has not stated that its all his views on how motorcyclist conduct themselves on the road right? Thats only how you have interupted his words.
Anyone remember his stance on why young Daniel died on the southern motorway?

Why a proviso? The poll asks if he should shut up or not. Everyone knows his message, and the way he delivers it - it hasn't changed.Not hard to judge what we are voting on in this case.

I don't remember but I can guess what his view on Daniel's incident was, did it align with the coroner's report?

[Katman]

He is free to stay

That's very big of you but this thread was never about whether I had to leave or not.

It was to gauge whether or not my constant repetition of the message was in fact doing more harm than good. It would appear that's not the case.

To answer Mark's question about why the poll was public - we simply get to see who sits on what side of the fence. It's called 'Knowing your enemy'.

[Spearfish]

To answer Mark's question about why the poll was public - we simply get to see who sits on what side of the fence. It's called 'Knowing your enemy'.

What button shows who is eating out of what paddock?

[onearmedbandit]

What button shows who is eating out of what paddock?

On the poll, click on either of the numbers indicating how many have voted for either option.

[oneofsix]

That's very big of you but this thread was never about whether I had to leave or not.

It was to gauge whether or not my constant repetition of the message was in fact doing more harm than good. It would appear that's not the case.

To answer Mark's question about why the poll was public - we simply get to see who sits on what side of the fence. It's called 'Knowing your enemy'.

In that case your question, like your message often is, is to harsh.

[Spearfish]

On the poll, click on either of the numbers indicating how many have voted for either option.

You are a gentleman and a scholar sir.




Shyt now I'm labelled as a supporter of Katmans message does that mean I have to live under the expectation of riding to a higher standard?....fark what have I done!!:shit:

[oneofsix]

You are a gentleman and a scholar sir.




Shyt now I'm labelled as a supporter of Katmans message does that mean I have to live under the expectation of riding to a higher standard?....fark what have I done!!:shit:

+1 but worse than that according to Katman you and I now also support the way he delivers it. Now I need a Tui or dozen.

[superman]

+1 but worse than that according to Katman you and I now also support the way he delivers it. Now I need a Tui or dozen.

Make it a crate day and count me in.

[Katman]

+1 but worse than that according to Katman you and I now also support the way he delivers it. Now I need a Tui or dozen.

How about, if you think the message is sound but the delivery sucks, you start delivering it in a manner that you think is more palatable.

I read a lot of people bitching about my delivery but not too many willing to give it a go themselves.

[Banditbandit]

Those that voted no and want him to stay can now no longer argue with anything that he says.

BULLSHIT - I voted for him to stay so he can express his opinion - that does not mean I won't call him an arrogant and insensitive wanker if he acts like one - I did not vote for him to stay because I necessarily agree with the arrogant and insensitive wanker ...

[Crasherfromwayback]

.

I read a lot of people bitching about my delivery but not too many willing to give it a go themselves.

I don't think that's true. Many people here, myself included often bring up things that may help others.

[Katman]

I don't think that's true. Many people here, myself included often bring up things that may help others.

I'm not talking about offering help Pete.

I'm talking about making people wake up to the realisation of a number of important facts like.......

When you're dead you're dead and it doesn't much matter by that stage who (or what) the fuck is at fault.

If you fuck up through your own actions own the fuck up to it instead of blaming everyone/thing else.

If we keep costing the country a small fortune we will continue to be targeted by the powers that be.

Those sorts of things.

[marie_speeds]

Simple question really.

And yes, be aware it is a public poll.

It's time to draw a line in the sand.

NO :love:

You do a great job of telling people to get their heads out of their arses

[Spearfish]

I don't think that's true. Many people here, myself included often bring up things that may help others.

<br><br><br>They/you/many do help and probably don't realise it considering only really emotive subjects get a response in most cases <font size="1">or if a question is placed in a poorly worded context..

</font><br><br><br>Some others are just contributing to the delinquency of biker noobs.:corn:

[Katman]

People say my delivery is harsh and I agree.

Calling Loosebruce a cock was harsh, but was it as harsh as two motorcycles slamming head-on into each other killing both riders through the stupidity of one of those riders?

Saying Daniel was riding like a cock was harsh, but was it as harsh as the WRB that cut him in half?

Some even say that getting Katiepie to admit to her responsibility for her accident was harsh, but was it as harsh as lying there helpless for hours on end wondering if help was ever going to arrive in time?

Some people here have a strange understanding of the meaning of harsh.

[Crasherfromwayback]

People say my delivery is harsh and I agree.

Calling Loosebruce a cock was harsh, but was it as harsh as two motorcycles slamming head-on into each other killing both riders through the stupidity of one of those riders?



My major problem with you came from that. It was said in a tribute thread to Bruce, that I know for a fact his family were reading. Regardless of your thoughts, I simply think it was really bad form to talk about the son they lost in that manner. Neither Steve or Peggy (Bruces parents) have been the same since they lost Bruce, and they're both really lovely people that didn't deserve to read that said about their son.

But anyhow...even I've slowly (yes I'm a bit special) come to realise that your are in fact trying to help and spread the word. I just wish you'd sometimes tone it down a little.

[Oscar]

Some others are just contributing to the delinquency of biker noobs.:corn:

I agree.
There is a lot of macho bullshit amongst motorcyclists, and a prevalent victim culture ("fuckin' cagers!"), and the combination is lethal.

[oneofsix]

People say my delivery is harsh and I agree.

Calling Loosebruce a cock was harsh, but was it as harsh as two motorcycles slamming head-on into each other killing both riders through the stupidity of one of those riders?

Saying Daniel was riding like a cock was harsh, but was it as harsh as the WRB that cut him in half?

Some even say that getting Katiepie to admit to her responsibility for her accident was harsh, but was it as harsh as lying there helpless for hours on end wondering if help was ever going to arrive in time?

Some people here have a strange understanding of the meaning of harsh.

Your attack on Katiepie was out of order, she never denied she had responsibility however when you attacked no one knew what had happened or why. It was the gentler discussions that brought out the possible reasons and connections which she is willing to accept as possibilities. No concrete reason for that accident has yet been determined.
There was also the case of the u-turn over top of the overtaking biker where you jumped down the riders throat based on something some other commentator had said and many more examples, some of which have been given in this thread, which you seem to ignore because they don't fit the image you are trying to paint.
Calling twats pulling wheelies in traffic twats is ok calling someone who makes a mistake a twat isn't, calling the mistake stupid is however ok.

[Spearfish]

People say my delivery is harsh and I agree.

Calling Loosebruce a cock was harsh, but was it as harsh as two motorcycles slamming head-on into each other killing both riders through the stupidity of one of those riders?

Saying Daniel was riding like a cock was harsh, but was it as harsh as the WRB that cut him in half?

Some even say that getting Katiepie to admit to her responsibility for her accident was harsh, but was it as harsh as lying there helpless for hours on end wondering if help was ever going to arrive in time?

Some people here have a strange understanding of the meaning of harsh.

I wouldn't say harsh perhaps its more "clinical" a bit like a SCU report, people don't like them either.

[Katman]

Your attack on Katiepie was out of order, she never denied she had responsibility however when you attacked no one knew what had happened or why. It was the gentler discussions that brought out the possible reasons and connections which she is willing to accept as possibilities. No concrete reason for that accident has yet been determined.
There was also the case of the u-turn over top of the overtaking biker where you jumped down the riders throat based on something some other commentator had said and many more examples, some of which have been given in this thread, which you seem to ignore because they don't fit the image you are trying to paint.
Calling twats pulling wheelies in traffic twats is ok calling someone who makes a mistake a twat isn't, calling the mistake stupid is however ok.

Couple of points......

If you think I 'attacked' Katiepie then you must lead a very sheltered life. I responded specifically to her statement that "in this instance it reinforces my belief that some accidents are indeed unavoidable". That doesn't sound like accepting responsibility to me. (As we are all aware, she has since done so).

In the instance of the U-turning cop I seem to remember I merely tried to push the idea that if we don't allow for unexpected occurances around blind corners or over blind crests then we have to shoulder a large part of the responsibility if things turn to shit.

[oneofsix]

Couple of points......

If you think I 'attacked' Katiepie then you must lead a very sheltered life. I responded specifically to her statement that "in this instance it reinforces my belief that some accidents are indeed unavoidable". That doesn't sound like accepting responsibility to me.
Saying some accidents are unavoidable doesn't deny responsibility. You are taking that comment out of context of the general thread, something I like to do for fun but you did it to kick. It is very complicated but you can be responsible for an unavoidable accident because by the time the accident happens the events were put in train long ago.


In the instance of the U-turning cop I seem to remember I merely tried to push the idea that if we don't allow for unexpected occurances around blind corners or over blind crests then we have to shoulder a large part of the responsibility if things turn to shit.
Actually it wasn't the U-turning cop, it was the U-turning woman in the 4wd but now you raised it lets be a bit realistic. The cop Fucked up, he has also fucked up since, he seems to be a but of a fuck up but that could be a reaction to losing his job. Coming over a crest and seeing a slip your reactions kick in automatically, coming over a crest and seeing a cop car blocking the road disbelieve is going to be the first reaction then the avoidance kicks in too late.

[Nasty]

I wouldn't say harsh perhaps its more "clinical" a bit like a SCU report, people don't like them either.

I am sorry but you are wrong there about the comparison of katmans delivery and scu reports. Scu reports come from facts and clinical analysis. Katman doesn't. It's simple that. Scu reports are fine and not designed to be liked but a collection of knowns and assumptions on unknowns, katman often has no collection of facts at all, and purely assumptions, most of which are reasonable, but ,almost all have shockingly bad delivery.

Personally read a couple of reports, and they were good reading. Don't really know what is to like or dislike about them.

[oneofsix]

I am sorry but you are wrong there about the comparison of katmans delivery and scu reports. Scu reports come from facts and clinical analysis. Katman doesn't. It's simple that. Scu reports are fine and not designed to be liked but a collection of knowns and assumptions on unknowns, katman often has no collection of facts at all, and purely assumptions, most of which are reasonable, but ,almost all have shockingly bad delivery.

Personally read a couple of reports, and they were good reading. Don't really know what is to like or dislike about them.

I like the air crash type reports, all factual, third person. Haven't read any SCU reports but they would have to follow a similar format, no actual finger pointing, just let the facts speak. Done operations where they do fault reports and the one thing they always seemed to fail on was they had a focus on who did what wrong rather than what went wrong.

[MSTRS]

People say my delivery is harsh and I agree.

Calling Loosebruce a cock was harsh, but was it as harsh as two motorcycles slamming head-on into each other killing both riders through the stupidity of one of those riders?

Saying Daniel was riding like a cock was harsh, but was it as harsh as the WRB that cut him in half?

Some even say that getting Katiepie to admit to her responsibility for her accident was harsh, but was it as harsh as lying there helpless for hours on end wondering if help was ever going to arrive in time?

Some people here have a strange understanding of the meaning of harsh.

The only time I had a problem with one of your post-crash 'rants' was Skelstar's. Accusing him of using amnesia to conveniently forget the entire week/day/episode was unfair.

[superman]

"I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend with my life your right to say it"

Sums it up pretty much. :yes:

[Katman]

Actually it wasn't the U-turning cop, it was the U-turning woman in the 4wd

What, you're upset because I suggested that the intention of a u-turning car will usually be preceded/indicated by the front wheels turning to the right and that it's our responsibility to notice those sorts of things?

Fuck me, you're really clutching at straws.

[merv]

I'm all for freedom of speech and hate the mods dicking with things so stay here man and keep saying your stuff.

Katman, as for bikers that crash into cars and other things is it a case of those that are too busy looking around to see who is looking at them hoping they look cool, than those that actually concentrate on what they are doing and look where they are going?

[Katman]

Katman, as for bikers that crash into cars and other things is it a case of those that are too busy looking around to see who is looking at them hoping they look cool, than those that actually concentrate on what they are doing and look where they are going?

I believe that 99% of motorcycle accidents fall into one (or more) of three categories. Inexperience, inattention or stupidity.

We can do plenty to address all three of those categories.

Egotism may well play a part but hey, even I know I look good on my bike. :eek:

[Bald Eagle]

Glad you left the 1% loophole for God to act in

[Ronin]

If there were no Katman who would fill the void?

If you have a void that needs filling then it would be DB.

[Ronin]

It pains me to say NO. I have been assured that although he may be a cunt, in real life he is a good cunt.

I sometimes loath the way the message is delivered but on the whole, the message is correct.

[Maha]

Why a proviso? The poll asks if he should shut up or not. Everyone knows his message, and the way he delivers it - it hasn't changed.Not hard to judge what we are voting on in this case.

I don't remember but I can guess what his view on Daniel's incident was, did it align with the coroner's report?

I dont know 'why the provisio', those that voted no are throwing one in just to cover thier arse for later posts I guess?

As for the Coroner's report on the Daniel accident. It is out, as to why it is not on here? I will leave that up the many to figure out.

[BoristheBiter]

If you have a void that needs filling then it would be DB.

And no one wants DB filling anyones void.

[shrub]

I believe that 99% of motorcycle accidents fall into one (or more) of three categories. Inexperience, inattention or stupidity.

We can do plenty to address all three of those categories.

Egotism may well play a part but hey, even I know I look good on my bike. :eek:

You're talking two very different issues here. If I bin my bike the odds are pretty high that it was stupidity - not paying attention is stupidity, and stupidity is voluntary and completely under the riders control; however inexperience is not.

Johnny Noob wobbling down the road on his shiny new 250 may well have been told that car wheels turning means a U turn coming, or all about countersteering etc, but for that kind of stuff to work it has to be an instinctive reaction. At 100 kmh you don't have time to think "OK, this is happening, therefore that is about to happen and I need to....", it has to happen instantly.

And that's where I have a problem with your broken record. If I bin my bike there is a high chance I deserve zero sympathy, but if Johnny Noob bins his bike it's a bit rich saying "it's your fault for not...." because his instincts didn't kick in. Instinctive riding comes from experience, and that is not something that can be imposed or even learnt on a track day. Johnny has to do what I did - get out and ride his bike in all conditions. If he's clever he won't do the shit I did that caused me to crash - ride pissed, ride too fast, ride a poorly maintained bike and it's unlikely he'll ride bikes that have crap brakes and handling like i did.

But even if Johnny is incredibly clever and has a really good bike he is still sharing the roads with retards. You and I survive their stupidity because of our experience, but Johnny doesn't have that, so may well not survive. And that's where I think TPTB need to come down on people that do the stupid shit that is likely to kill or maim Johnny - inattention and inconsideration.

[IdunBrokdItAgin]

A yes from me.

The only effect I can see from the broken record approach is to make others hesitant to post when they do have an accident.

If the rider doesn't post about their crash, due to the unsympathetic slant that now seems to exist on kiwibiker, then how can they or others gain insight from the more experienced members?

Riddle me that.

If the message was changed to "always expect the unexpected" or something similar I'd have no problem with it - but it remains the blunt "you must have fucked up, now admit it".

When I first joined kiwibiker I appreciated the fact that it gave me access to experienced bikers, who could give me tips on what and what not to do.

However, since the ACC debacle a lot of those more experienced riders seem to have become intolerant of other, less experienced riders, and now prefer to condemn rather than assist.

[Spearfish]

You're talking two very different issues here. If I bin my bike the odds are pretty high that it was stupidity - not paying attention is stupidity, and stupidity is voluntary and completely under the riders control; however inexperience is not.

Johnny Noob wobbling down the road on his shiny new 250 may well have been told that car wheels turning means a U turn coming, or all about countersteering etc, but for that kind of stuff to work it has to be an instinctive reaction. At 100 kmh you don't have time to think "OK, this is happening, therefore that is about to happen and I need to....", it has to happen instantly.

And that's where I have a problem with your broken record. If I bin my bike there is a high chance I deserve zero sympathy, but if Johnny Noob bins his bike it's a bit rich saying "it's your fault for not...." because his instincts didn't kick in. Instinctive riding comes from experience, and that is not something that can be imposed or even learnt on a track day. Johnny has to do what I did - get out and ride his bike in all conditions. If he's clever he won't do the shit I did that caused me to crash - ride pissed, ride too fast, ride a poorly maintained bike and it's unlikely he'll ride bikes that have crap brakes and handling like i did.

But even if Johnny is incredibly clever and has a really good bike he is still sharing the roads with retards. You and I survive their stupidity because of our experience, but Johnny doesn't have that, so may well not survive. And that's where I think TPTB need to come down on people that do the stupid shit that is likely to kill or maim Johnny - inattention and inconsideration.

That sparks the debate that maybe us noobs shouldn't be on the road until we are at least as competent as a 6R or better.

[MSTRS]

However, since the ACC debacle a lot of those more experienced riders seem to have become intolerant of other, less experienced riders, and now prefer to condemn rather than assist.

Not entirely fair. Few are the experienced who are intolerant of the less experienced. I'd hazard a guess and say that most would actually put themselves out to help some noob etc - if asked.
Intolerant of someone who crashes and fires shots at every possible cause except themselves...yeah.

[IdunBrokdItAgin]

Not entirely fair. Few are the experienced who are intolerant of the less experienced. I'd hazard a guess and say that most would actually put themselves out to help some noob etc - if asked.
Intolerant of someone who crashes and fires shots at every possible cause except themselves...yeah.

Whichever way you want to colour the message - it is coming across as intolerant and unsympathetic. It will just deter people from posting up a crash.

Also - the message is being delivered, at times, before any denied liability is posted.

Edit - And by message I mean not only Katman's blunt posts but the general slant that is appearing on kiwibiker, towards any crash.

[BoristheBiter]

Whichever way you want to colour the message - it is coming across as intolerant and unsympathetic. It will just deter people from posting up a crash.

Also - the message is being delivered, at times, before any denied liability is posted.

How about if you don't want to be criticized about your crash don't post it up.

[Maha]

Whichever way you want to colour the message - it is coming across as intolerant and unsympathetic. It will just deter people from posting up a crash.

Also - the message is being delivered, at times, before any denied liability is posted.

Edit - And by message I mean not only Katman's blunt posts but the general slant that is appearing on kiwibiker, towards any crash.

You might as well go kick the cat (scuse the pun) by this time next week it will back to normal, its already showing sings of slipping away.

[IdunBrokdItAgin]

How about if you don't want to be criticized about your crash don't post it up.

My point entirely.

One of the learning aids, of having access to more experienced riders who can give constructive feedback on "coulda/ woulda/ shoulda", would be lost.

I've had crashes (which I have learnt from, especially with some good advice from members of kiwibiker) but I'd never post about one on here now, not with the current atmosphere being as it is.

When you have a crash you go through various stages (disbeleif, denial etc) all the way through to acceptance, but the last thing you need is someone forcing you from one stage to another before you are ready.

Edit: People will get there in their own time, I think it is very rare for someone to have a crash and not learn from it.

[bogan]

My point entirely.

One of the learning aids, of having access to more experienced riders who can give constructive feedback on "coulda/ woulda/ shoulda", would be lost.

I've had crashes (which I have learnt from, especially with some good advice from members of kiwibiker) but I'd never post about one on here now, not with the current atmosphere being as it is.

When you have a crash you go through various stages (disbeleif, denial etc) all the way through to acceptance, but the last thing you need is someone forcing you from one stage to another before you are ready.

What if the post was "I had a crash, I think I could have done better and avoided it, help me figure out how" would this bring down the kb angst? I can't recall this happening, but would be interested in the result if it has.

[nodrog]

I think all you cunts should shut the fuck up.

[Spearfish]

Posting about a crash and getting upset with harsh/clinical responses is like:
Being a premium cut of the mad butchers finest...
Throwing your self over the fence into the wild dog enclosure at orana park...
Then being surprised the dogs aren't sympathetic to your views on vegetarianism.

I expect sympathy from my wife (@ first) but not from here, here its a swift kick up the arse with some "do insert something helpful next time ya dick" advice.

[Maha]

I think all you cunts should shut the fuck up.

Shhhhhhhhhhh you'll have this in PD before Katman can say 'Im too sexy for my shirt'...:wari:

[bogan]

No one will ever admit to fucking up....

Maybe not straight away, adrenalin and whatnot, but give it a bit and it's a fairly logical conclusion to draw when there is a messed up bike in the shed/shop.

[Katman]

Maybe not straight away, adrenalin and whatnot, but give it a bit and it's a fairly logical conclusion to draw when there is a messed up bike in the shed/shop.

That's where the gravel, diesel, pothole, wind, rain, cager, copper, hot chick etc. come into it.

[Genie]

I think all you cunts should shut the fuck up.

...on ya bike!

[Genie]

..I voted no, you have the right to say your say....as to the personal attacks on others....hmmm, you get what you give and I guess you have a real tough hide.

I do tend to agree with much of what you write but as others suggest, the delivery is somewhat...scaling.

But then again,, if some don't like it, don't read it, no-one forces another to log-on to KB, I only come here for the stalking and the entertainment...oh and sometimes I do learn some bike related stuff. :innocent:

[Eyegasm]

No one will ever admit to fucking up....thats where Steve suggests wrong to right.

Sorry, I disagree.

I completely fucked up and slide my bike down the road. Monday 18 April, so pretty recently.

Was coming up to a round about, new tyre, rain, wet paint and that is all she wrote. I still class that as my fault. knew I had a new tyre, knew it was raining, knew about the location of the road marking. Yet still I didn't take due care.

Boom, done thank you very much.

So some of us that have "Accidents" will admit to completely fucking up.

Difference is, I didn't come on here and cry and whinge about it. Fuck no.
Why cry to you, I knew where and why I went down. Didn't need to get a sympathetic (sp) post from any of you. Got the bike to the shop, got it sorted, will be back on it soon.

On ya bikes and stop bitching... Bunch of soft cock pussies!!!

And Fatt Max... Get a Pie in ya!!! all this typing is making you lose weight :rofl:

[Maha]

Sorry, I disagree.

I completely fucked up and slide my bike down the road. Monday 18 April, so pretty recently.

Was coming up to a round about, new tyre, rain, wet paint and that is all she wrote. I still class that as my fault. knew I had a new tyre, knew it was raining, knew about the location of the road marking. Yet still I didn't take due care.

Boom, done thank you very much.

So some of us that have "Accidents" will admit to completely fucking up.

Difference is, I didn't come on here and cry and whinge about it. Fuck no.
Why cry to you, I knew where and why I went down. Didn't need to get a sympathetic (sp) post from any of you. Got the bike to the shop, got it sorted, will be back on it soon.

On ya bikes and stop bitching... Bunch of soft cock pussies!!!

And Fatt Max... Get a Pie in ya!!! all this typing is making you lose weight :rofl:

Apologies yes I did get that wrong.

[Berries]

The message that most motorbike crashes are avoidable is valid, the wording and timing perhaps need work.

In the end, it’s an online forum. If people get upset by what is posted then may be they should go somewhere else. Posting your own crash details is opening yourself up to negative comments. If you can’t live with it then don’t post it. I understand that the Sallies do sympathy quite well.


How about if you don't want to be criticized about your crash don't post it up.
What he said.


Anyone remember his stance on why young Daniel died on the southern motorway?

As for the Coroner's report on the Daniel accident. It is out, as to why it is not on here? I will leave that up the many to figure out.
You seem to know more than you are letting on. Considering the comments that the crash raised perhaps it should be posted up here so people can learn from the facts.

[bogan]

That's where the gravel, diesel, pothole, wind, rain, cager, copper, hot chick etc. come into it.

#2, #5, and #8 cost me an indicator lens, mirror, and brake lever; still looking to invoice the bastards :innocent:
Seriously though, learning from word of mouth tips is better than learning from a mouth to road experience.

[Maha]

You seem to know more than you are letting on. Considering the comments that the crash raised perhaps it should be posted up here so people can learn from the facts.

Not for me to do so, if the family feel it necessary to post it, then fine.

[Ronin]

I think all you cunts should shut the fuck up.

No need to get your fanny in a twist.

[nodrog]

No need to get your fanny in a twist.

wanna root?

[Katman]

Not for me to do so, if the family feel it necessary to post it, then fine.

So why did you bother bringing it up?

[Crasherfromwayback]

No need to get your fanny in a twist.


wanna root?

Anyone here ever rooted a twisted fanny?

[Maha]

So why did you bother bringing it up?

If you read the post I replied to regurading this, it was someone else who made mention of the coroner's report first, not me.

[Banditbandit]

My major problem with you came from that. It was said in a tribute thread to Bruce, that I know for a fact his family were reading. Regardless of your thoughts, I simply think it was really bad form to talk about the son they lost in that manner. Neither Steve or Peggy (Bruces parents) have been the same since they lost Bruce, and they're both really lovely people that didn't deserve to read that said about their son.

But anyhow...even I've slowly (yes I'm a bit special) come to realise that your are in fact trying to help and spread the word. I just wish you'd sometimes tone it down a little.

I agree. The comments about LooseBruce were definitely in the "insensitive arrogant wanker" category ... but yes, as I've said before your message is good ... and certainly affected my attitutude - which was pretty much macho-biker ... and therefore my riding ...

So keep it up .. but sometimes you could tone it down - as appropriate

[george formby]

Anyone here ever rooted a fisted tranny?



Is that what you meant? I'm sure the answer is yes.

[Ronin]

wanna root?

do you reach around?

[Katman]

If you read the post I replied to regurading this, it was someone else who made mention of the coroner's report first, not me.

You brought the incident up back on page 7.

But now you're not telling.

Are you sure it's not you doing the ego stroking here?

[Ronin]

Anyone here ever rooted a twisted fanny?

Yes


Nuff said.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Is that what you meant? I'm sure the answer is yes.

I've never even fisted one of them mate...

[Spearfish]

A twisted fanny would be like rifling in a barrel?

[nodrog]

do you reach around?

will you squeal?

[Maha]

You brought the incident up back on page 7.

But now you're not telling.

Are you sure it's not you doing the ego stroking?

The incident, yes I did, it was the first contentous issue involving you that came to mind. I didn't mention the coroner's report though like you suggested, that was someone else, can you not read?
If you dont know the outcome by now you will never know.
As I said, it is not for me to say..

[MarkH]

No one will ever admit to fucking up....thats where Steve suggests wrong to right.

I'm sure I have read threads where someone has said that they fucked up and had an accident and gave all the details so that the rest of us could learn from their mistakes.

I am also smart enough to understand that when an accident happens that is not the bikers fault it doesn't mean that the biker couldn't have done something different to avoid it. As Katman has said, when your dead it doesn't matter if it was the other driver's fault. Realising that an idiot may pull a U-turn and cause an accident and reacting to that impending stupidity and avoiding that accident - that is a way to not be dead regardless of who's fault the accident would have been.

I think that not every accident is avoidable, but we SHOULD act as if they were when we are riding - what value is there in not trying to avoid accidents? If you do a good job of avoiding accidents then it is only the avoidable ones you will have, if you don't do a good job then you could end up having an avoidable accident.
Unavoidable accidents are rare, so many motorcyclists can ride for decades without ever having one.
Avoidable accidents are not nearly so rare, so we should all do our best to avoid them.

I don't like telling someone that has had an accident that it was their fault when there is no evidence to back that up - this seems to be a difference between me & Katman. But when someone is posting their experience on a public forum there is no reason why someone can't politely mention that if they had acted differently then they may have been able to avoid the accident. If you don't want someone commenting on what you could have done differently then stay the fuck out of public forums IMO.


Here is an example of something that Katman has suggested:
When the car driver in front of you is clearly a fuckin' idiot then you are better off not trusting their intentions if they slow & pull to the left, relax and slow down behind them rather than blasting passed - if they suddenly pull a U-turn you'll be glad you exercised some caution.
The accident in question was the fault of the car driver IMO, but I appreciate what Katman suggested and following his advice could save your life. Telling the injured rider it was his fault (both the rider and his pillion daughter went to hospital) is just being a cunt, but saying the sentence above is fine by me.

[avgas]

http://poptimal.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/amazingrace1.jpg

Remember when we used to talk about motorbikes?

No me neither

[Katman]

The accident in question was the fault of the car driver IMO, but I appreciate what Katman suggested and following his advice could save your life. Telling the injured rider it was his fault (both the rider and his pillion daughter went to hospital) is just being a cunt, but saying the sentence above is fine by me.

Here you go. http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/130668-Thursday-misadventure.-How-to-win-a-week-in-hospital.

Care to point out where it is that I state that the accident was Terbang's fault?

[MSTRS]

... but the general slant that is appearing on kiwibiker, towards any crash.

Just maybe, as someone suggested, since the ACC increases, a few more actually see that we are (or can be) our own worst enemy. Most of us don't like paying more than we have to, and when a charge increases we don't like it. Perhaps there is a growing resentment towards those that contribute to the extra costs, when a little care on their part could have avoided that contribution altogether?
KM did bring this up some years ago. Long before 11/9...




When you have a crash you go through various stages (disbeleif, denial etc) all the way through to acceptance, but the last thing you need is someone forcing you from one stage to another before you are ready.



Not quite the same thing as dealing with news of your impeding death, or the death of a loved one.
Unless 'forced' to confront the entirety of a crash, what reason does a denier of own part have to actually accept they did have a part to play?

[jasonu]

Simple question really.

And yes, be aware it is a public poll.

It's time to draw a line in the sand.

I thought you already had stfu. Barely a peep from you in the last few weeks.

[StoneY]

You have a valid message Katman, maybe sometimes its delivered a bit harshly, and like myself, you can be your own worst enemy at times.

I get where you are coming from a lot of the time and despite the past issues we have had I do not think you should STFU
I think KBers (me included) need to HTFU....

Bikers as a rule need to start taking ownership, but i still think we are largely being ripped off and unfairly targeted by this govt and other agencies therof....

My involvement with TPTB at this time is not as smooth (nor is it as cooperative) as some may think it is...........

[scissorhands]

Katman needs to open his mouth more.

He gets to sit in his high chair firing off one liners at those willing to stick their head out and say stupid things.

He appears as a mystical creature guided by brevity and scorn.

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS38fEsomrEV8QalO0RSYze36pJgvRn4 yU_UpmxCn5b31S56KAl

What will loosen his tongue and end his quiet domination?

[BoristheBiter]

Katman needs to open his mouth more.

He gets to sit in his high chair firing off one liners at those willing to stick their head out and say stupid things.

He appears as a mystical creature guided by brevity and scorn.

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS38fEsomrEV8QalO0RSYze36pJgvRn4 yU_UpmxCn5b31S56KAl

What will loosen his tongue and end his quiet domination?

catnip ???

[MSTRS]

Bikers as a rule need to start taking ownership....


Yay! Another one gets it.



... but i still think we are largely being ripped off and unfairly targeted by this govt and other agencies therof....


Side issue. But there is enough truth hiding amongst their lies - truths that only we can change.

[Crasherfromwayback]

What will loosen his tongue and end his quiet domination?

Ecstasy!!!

[MSTRS]

Ecstasy!!!

Some prefer to see blood, and would hate to see KM enjoying himself - so maybe a sharp knife??

[Usarka]

The existance of this thread proves it's about ego and attention not about any desire to do good.

My answer: whatever.

[Maha]

What will loosen his tongue and end his quiet domination?

Removing your nose from his arse might help....:yes:

[PrincessBandit]

That sparks the debate that maybe us noobs shouldn't be on the road until we are at least as competent as a 6R or better.

I'm loathe to say it, but there may well be validity to that point. The whole thing with a bike L (and R for that matter) is that you cannot have someone with you when you're out on the road like a L car driver does. (Who, theoretically, is "in charge" of you while you drive).

If anyone wants to bemoan my saying this, even my brother (the esteemed Katman) told me recently that my initial riding on the road really showed that I shouldn't have actually been riding in a public arena such as the road in my early days. The reality was that although all my initial riding, on my bright shiny brand new GN250, was done early in the morning, around the block, when there were as few cars as possible out. It didn't make me instantly a good rider, or one with good judgement, or great handling skills. He and I rode together a couple of times (difficult to do regularly as we live in different parts of the country) and was rather unimpressed with some of the things i did - purely due to inexperience. He didn't ream me out, but did make it clear on what I needed to work on in order to make myslef less of a menace on the road.

So, while it's easy to say from hindsight (and with my full licence tucked away in my wallet for a couple of years now) that maybe there should be greater tuition etc. what ever you want to call it before people get out on the road, there could be some merit in it.
And it should actually be the same for drivers too. Despite the fact that legally a L is supposed to have a driver with them who has had their full for at least 2 years blah blah blah, how many flaunt their licence conditions regardless. If getting a licence was actually tougher then maybe there wouldn't be the need for so many licence restrictions?

[scissorhands]

Removing your nose from his arse might help....:yes:

I thought it was your willie??

[Crasherfromwayback]

so maybe a sharp knife??

Nothing sharper than a plastic spoon. Certainly not anything with a blade...like a Katana.

[Maha]

I thought it was your willie??

Some of his wishes will never come true.

[MarkH]

Here you go. http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/130668-Thursday-misadventure.-How-to-win-a-week-in-hospital.

Care to point out where it is that I state that the accident was Terbang's fault?

Maybe not state - more imply.
You suggest that Terbang may have missed seeing the cars front wheels turning to the right (post#54) - unfortunately people no more turn their wheels to the right 3 seconds before making the turn than they use their indicators for 3 seconds first.
Sure, if the other driver turned their front wheels to the right and waited for a few seconds before moving then a rider might see that and decide not to pass, but usually the only way to be safe is to just stop behind the car that has pulled off the road and wait to see what they do.

The real problem I have with Terbang's accident is that for some time 2 bikes were following the idiot driver, when she pulled over to the left she didn't even think about anyone but her own dumb self and turned right across both lanes of the road, causing an accident. I have no reason to believe that she gave any warning of what she was about to do. I probably would have done exactly what Terbang did and I suspect that over 90% of KBers would have too. For all Terbang knew she was pulling over to let the bikes go past her.

[Genie]

Bikers as a rule need to start taking ownership


This sums it up nicely and this not only applies to bikers but to all mankind (and woman)

Personal Responsibility - go hard or stay the fcuk at home!

[MSTRS]

This sums it up nicely and this not only applies to bikers but to all mankind (and woman)

Personal Responsibility - go hard or stay the fcuk at home!

Argh! No!
You mean we should take personal responsibility in every thing we do? Surely not. That's a step too far, MissLivesInAJar...

[Genie]

Argh! No!
You mean we should take personal responsibility in every thing we do? Surely not. That's a step too far, MissLivesInAJar...

I mean yes...yes one should in everything that ones does and MissSheLivesInALamp....lives by what she says!

[MSTRS]

I mean yes...yes one should in everything that ones does and MissSheLivesInALamp....lives by what she says!

Right! That's it! The world as we know it has ended.
It was hard enough, having to be responsible just when on a bike...

[Latte]

http://poptimal.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/amazingrace1.jpg

Remember when we used to talk about motorbikes?

No me neither

So that's katman? Name's a bit misleading

[Gone Burger]

If you think I 'attacked' Katiepie then you must lead a very sheltered life. I responded specifically to her statement that "in this instance it reinforces my belief that some accidents are indeed unavoidable". That doesn't sound like accepting responsibility to me. (As we are all aware, she has since done so)

Yes, I am back on for a moment, as I'm having a really crappy day and this will fill in the next half hour of so to take my mind of some other things.

Sorry Katman, I've been through all that I posted and I can't quite find that quote? I am pretty hopeless at with the search function. But all I could find was the following that I posted:

"I do have much to learn, and I will take my time learning the basics again. In this case I feel that accidents can happen, and we can't always avoid them. I'll be back on biker later in the year, and going back to basics to get my head round it all again"

The words you mentioned sound too direct for something I would have said, but as I said, I'm not very up to speed with the search function and apologise if I am incorrect.

Did I see it as an attack? Hell no. The only thing I got defencive about in regards to that was the personal attack from many people who didn't have a CLUE what happened on the day, including me. No one was there. NO one knew the facts. The police were even still putting them together. I was yet to sort through the bits of information to try and piece some things to gether, and couldn't be more fucked off that I have such memory loss over this.

I agree, what I posted (above) was me not thinking correctly, too soon after the crash to have my head on straight about it all. And, as you are aware, I do take full responsibility for what happened. Even more so after going back to the crash site three times now, with the last one being today. I was saying this to my family and friends well before I posted it on here, and even before my latest outburst. I am trying to jog my memory as to the events that led up to this, and my where my mind set was. As this holds the key as to why I messed up so badly. I do not blame anything else but myself on the day. To begin with I said "I FELT that accidents can happen, and we can't always avoid them". This was early on in my recovery, when I was taking 18 tablets a day for pain relief, not sleeping, and staring at a fuzzy screen all day. I apologise and should not have made a statement on the matter at such an early stage.

I will be going back to the site later in the year, when I am back on a bike again to ride through the corner slowly. I know I had the skills to easily get around that particular corner, yet I stuffed up, big time. So, I will do it again and again (with a friend there for support, as I know my nerves will be high that day).

Not sure why I am posting this on here. I know I'm not yet string enough or tough enough for the abuse I might recieve again (let alone all thats in my inbox). But I'm a biker, that has a passion for biking, and have never missed anything so much as I am missing riding right now. I hope I get to that point where I can continue. About to watch twist of the wrist one and two tonight to pass some time. Looking forward to it.

[Katman]

"I do have much to learn, and I will take my time learning the basics again. In this case I feel that accidents can happen, and we can't always avoid them. I'll be back on biker later in the year, and going back to basics to get my head round it all again"


Yes, that was the quote I was referring to.

My apologies for not going back and finding your exact words.

[The Stranger]

"I do have much to learn, and I will take my time learning the basics again. In this case I feel that accidents can happen, and we can't always avoid them.

Which of course is 100% correct. We can't always avoid them.
A fact that katman seem to have a problem grasping.

[Katman]

You suggest that Terbang may have missed seeing the cars front wheels turning to the right (post#54) - unfortunately people no more turn their wheels to the right 3 seconds before making the turn than they use their indicators for 3 seconds first.


If a car that you are following is seen to pull to the side of the road it should immediately become one of the major hazards for you to be aware of.

A car cannot perform a u-turn without turning it's wheels to the right. You need to make yourself aware of what the car's front wheels are doing.

If the car proceeds to perform that u-turn it suggests that the other side of the road is clear (unless the driver is stupid enough to turn into the path of on-coming traffic). Therefore, you will usually have the entire width of the road to work with as an escape route.

Options for that escape route need to be being worked out in your head as you approach the vehicle and will change as the distance to the car closes.

People are often caught out by u-turning vehicles simply because they haven't put enough thought into avoiding them.

[Katman]

Which of course is 100% correct. We can't always avoid them.
A fact that katman seem to have a problem grasping.

It's the words "In this case" that give the quote a different context to the one you're implying Noel.

[Ocean1]

Perhaps there is a growing resentment towards those that contribute to the extra costs, when a little care on their part could have avoided that contribution altogether?

If I told you I was going to beat the crap out of you and then remove one dollar from your wallet for every item of clothing your brother happened to be wearing at the time you'd no doubt abuse him for not being stark bollock naked?

If you feel the need to aportion blame then let's at least place it where it belongs, eh?

[BMWST?]

whilst your message has merit the method and timing of your missives leaves a lot to be desired

[Bonez]

Which of course is 100% correct. We can't always avoid them.
A fact that katman seem to have a problem grasping.This may need repeating.

[Katman]

This may need repeating.

I have never said every accident can be avoided. Point out where I have if you believe I have.

However, I believe at least 90% of accidents are avoidable through better management and that far too few people make sufficient effort to do so.

[Ocean1]

Which of course is 100% correct. We can't always avoid them.
A fact that katman seem to have a problem grasping.


This may need repeating.

Repeadedly.

[The Stranger]

This may need repeating.

How's that go?
Only when you have repeated your message so often and for so long, you are sick of hearing yourself say it, is the message just, just, beginning to get to joe public.......

Which of course is the danger.
Because the principal cares not if the words are correct or appropriate, only that you scream them until you are blue in the face. We should support this principal as we should religious zealotry the principal is the same.

No, not my style - I wouldn't pretend to tell you what's right for you, I'll leave that to katman and his ilk - politicians, religious fanatics, priests and the like.

[Max Preload]

The only thing this poll has proved so far is that 3 out of 4 KBers are fucking pussies.

[McWild]

Ahaha, love the poll results, they are very telling.


No, Katman should most certainly NOT shut the fuck up.

I ride like a complete tool on the road, wheelies, dodgy filtering, irritating car drivers just for the sake of it, so I can hardly claim to be a devout soldier of his message.

But fuck's sake, someone needs to keep KB interesting. Chaos Rider, Skidmark, Carver and all the other fun guys seems to have pissed off recently, it's almost gotten to the point where noone's being wound up over anything anymore.

Also I have respect for the man for sticking to his morals and not being afraid to tell people about it. And just because I tend to ignore what he has to say, doesn't mean I don't for a large part agree with it.

[Ender EnZed]

RE: this poll, should it be taken into account that 30 people have Katman on ignore? Presumably they don't have the opportunity to vote if they can't see KM's posts.

[Oscar]

RE: this poll, should it be taken into account that 30 people have Katman on ignore? Presumably they don't have the opportunity to vote if they can't see KM's posts.

Sure add them to the "yes" vote - that'll still only be 64 v. 106

[IdunBrokdItAgin]

Sure add them to the "yes" vote - that'll still only be 64 v. 106

Isn't that enough?

He never said that he had to lose the poll, in order to stop the cack handed messages.

He just asked if he should not continue to post his message with a "yes or no" option, maybe 30 plus YES's is enough?

[Latte]

Isn't that enough?

He never said that he had to lose the poll, in order to stop the cack handed messages.

He just asked if he should not continue to post his message with a "yes or no" option, maybe 30 plus YES's is enough?

MAybe it isn't? :p

Seriously, even if it was split the other way, do you think he'd stop?

[IdunBrokdItAgin]

Seriously, even if it was split the other way, do you think he'd stop?

Nope

10 chars (first time I have ever had to do that 10 chars thingy).

[scissorhands]

So safe even the kitties come along

http://ih2.redbubble.net/work.478283.6.flat,550x550,075,f.cat-man-of-kuala-lumpur.jpg

[StoneY]

Argh! No!
MissLivesInAJar...

Oh my god that's witty!
genie, do you wear satin veils as well???
:lol:

[Eyegasm]

So safe even the kitties come along

http://ih2.redbubble.net/work.478283.6.flat,550x550,075,f.cat-man-of-kuala-lumpur.jpg

Chinese meals on wheels???

[Edbear]

I have never said every accident can be avoided. Point out where I have if you believe I have.

However, I believe at least 90% of accidents are avoidable through better management and that far too few people make sufficient effort to do so.

Now that's what I'm talking about! Clear, objective and accurate. Can't criticise anything about this post!

[StoneY]

I have never said every accident can be avoided. Point out where I have if you believe I have.

However, I believe at least 90% of accidents are avoidable through better management and that far too few people make sufficient effort to do so.

When I was learning to drive cages at age 18, (already had full MC license before I was 16) my boss was pretty impressed with my awareness of other cars and the behavior of em, a trait that was born of riding MC's before I ever sat in a cage operators seat.

Any biker who does not pay attention to 'body language' of the cages is on a course for a disaster.

Anyway, point I wanted to make is my boss (who was a fucking good driver) reckoned both parties were at fault in ANY accident... I cant quite agree with him but KM's point quoted above is a pretty fair take on the situation, we could probably mitigate 90% of the issues we face by being 'on the ball'

And like Edbear, I think its a good post, KM if you could keep the posts at this level, you would get far less grief mate.
My .002

[MSTRS]

If I told you I was going to beat the crap out of you and then remove one dollar from your wallet for every item of clothing your brother happened to be wearing at the time you'd no doubt abuse him for not being stark bollock naked?

If you feel the need to aportion blame then let's at least place it where it belongs, eh?

I quite like that little analogy. I'm assuming the players are me the biker, you the avoidable accident I had, my brother a fellow rider.
Put in those terms, I look at it a little differently...
My brother is innocent, so why would I abuse him? My brother would be the one to feel aggrieved. He may blame me for not avoiding your fist.

[MSTRS]

RE: this poll, should it be taken into account that 30 people have Katman on ignore? Presumably they don't have the opportunity to vote if they can't see KM's posts.


Sure add them to the "yes" vote - that'll still only be 64 v. 106

Don't need to see his posts to see/vote the poll.
And how do we know why the 30 have him on ignore, and which way they'd vote?
For all we know, some of them think the rest of us deserve the continuing 'abuse'.

[Spearfish]

Post two hundred and thirteen.....

[Ocean1]

I quite like that little analogy. I'm assuming the players are me the biker, you the avoidable accident I had, my brother a fellow rider.


Close. You, ACC and a fellow rider.

There's little point in blaming your brother, it's ACC's action that sees you charged for the cost of both of your fuckups, not his.

[MSTRS]

Close. You, ACC and a fellow rider.

There's little point in blaming your brother, it's ACC's action that sees you charged for the cost of both of your fuckups, not his.

Are you saying that both me and my brother had offs, but ACC only charged me extra?

[Eyegasm]

reckoned both parties were at fault in ANY accident... I cant quite agree with him

I can see where he is coming from.

So should Katman, As katmans stance about being avoidable doesn't matter whether you hit someone or you were hit by someone. So therefore both parties in an "accident" are at fault.

For example a car doing a u-turn then being hit by another car/motorcycle.
Car doing the u-turn is at fault for not making sure it was safe to turn. Car/motorcycle is at fault for not noticing the tyres turning (FFS BS) or indicators.

So therefore both parties at fault.

Makes perfect sense.

[oneofsix]

I can see where he is coming from.

So should Katman, As katmans stance about being avoidable doesn't matter whether you hit someone or you were hit by someone. So therefore both parties in an "accident" are at fault.

For example a car doing a u-turn then being hit by another car/motorcycle.
Car doing the u-turn is at fault for not making sure it was safe to turn. Car/motorcycle is at fault for not noticing the tyres turning (FFS BS) or indicators.

So therefore both parties at fault.

Makes perfect sense.

yes, but now apply the percentages. The cop over the hill was he more at fault than the guy on the bike? The asian 4wd driver who after being followed by two bikes trying to pass her pulls over on the straight piece of road without indications, what percentage of the blame can REASONABLY be on the rider for thinking she pulled over to let them past, remember the front wheels don't turn until the last second, she doesn't turn her wheels and then stop as soon as the wheels turn she is gone. No body language, body language would imply turning the body no she just moves the hands as she pushes the right foot down. Katman 'fault' is that he seems to make it always 100% the rider, therefore no discussion on other things that can improve safety.

[Katman]

So therefore both parties at fault.


I have never said that there are not many times when fault must be shared. I have also never said that there are never times when fault doesn't lie with the motorcyclist.

I have however always said that we need to compensate for the inadequacies of other road users if we wish to stay in one piece.

The problem with half the drongos on here is that they don't understand basic English and instead choose to put words in my mouth.

[Crasherfromwayback]

and instead choose to put words in my mouth.

Oi...better than what you often offer to put in our mouths!

[Maha]

''The problem with half the drongos on here''....

And so it starts....:facepalm:

Careful Steve, some of them voted for ya....:corn:

Caring Maha xx

[Katman]

Katman 'fault' is that he seems to make it always 100% the rider, therefore no discussion on other things that can improve safety.

I actually don't give a shit about 'fault'.

I'm more concerned about what could reasonably be done to 'avoid'.

[oneofsix]

I actually don't give a shit about 'fault'.

I'm more concerned about what could reasonably be done to 'avoid'.

then you fail cause you fail the reasonable part of your statement.

[Katman]

then you fail cause you fail the reasonable part of your statement.

Really? Expecting people to ride with their eyes truly open and their brains truly engaged is being unreasonable?

[oneofsix]

Really? Expecting people to ride with their eyes truly open and their brains truly engaged is being unreasonable?

Are you also a conspiracy theorist? you reasonable sounding question belies your unreasonable expectations when discussing actual accidents.

[Ocean1]

Are you saying that both me and my brother had offs, but ACC only charged me extra?

You're being deliberately obtuse. Which, added to your native capabilities with regards to comprehension is a formidable barrier for any simple analogy to overcome.

[Katman]

Are you also a conspiracy theorist? you reasonable sounding question belies your unreasonable expectations when discussing actual accidents.

And btw, you're conveniently ignoring the number of motorcycle accidents where there is no other party to blame other than the rider.

[Eyegasm]

The problem with half the drongos on here is that they don't understand basic English and instead choose to put words in my mouth.

Ok.


I have never said that there are not many times when fault must be shared. I have also never said that there are never times when fault doesn't lie with the motorcyclist.

Can you clean this sentence up then? So many words to make a small point.
To make sure your point is put across for all those "Drongos" why not make your
sentences easily understandable?

Essentially your above statement to me (Once taking out double negatives) is...

You've never stated that "There a times when fault must be shared" or "Fault doesn't lie with the motorcyclist"

So from my understanding, you are saying that it is always the motorcyclist fault.

Tell me if I am wrong?

[Ocean1]

The problem with half the drongos on here is that they don't understand basic English and instead choose to put words in my mouth.

To be more honest than might be strictly nescessary that's almost certainly because thay get frustrated at your lack of ability to do it for yourself. The fact that drongos can do it better is a telling commentary on your inteligence.

[Katman]

So from my understanding, you are saying that it is always the motorcyclist fault.

Tell me if I am wrong?

You couldn't have got it more wrong if you'd tried. :facepalm:

When you take out a double negative make sure you take out both. Taking out only one reverses the meaning of the sentence.

Looks like we've found our first drongo.

[MSTRS]

The fact that drongos can do it better is a telling commentary on your inteligence.

The 'telling commentary' is more on those drongos that refuse to understand that in any crash, a bit of 'fault' lies with all involved.

[Eyegasm]

I have never said that there are not many times when fault must be shared. I have also never said that there are never times when fault doesn't lie with the motorcyclist.


You couldn't have got it more wrong if you'd tried. :facepalm:

When you take out a double negative make sure you take out both. Taking out only one reverses the meaning of the sentence.

Ok, I missed a never. My bad.

But why write such a complicated sentence? See, I even stuffed up your meaning.

[MSTRS]

But why write such a complicated sentence? See, I even stuffed up your meaning.

Would you rather he went back to "You're a cock!" ? (and I don't mean you, personally, just anyone)

[Eyegasm]

Looks like we've found our first drongo.

Mate, So I missed a "Never" in your statement.

If you had of got to the point instead of beating round the bush it would have been easier to understand.

But hey I'll put my hand up for first drongo!

I doubt I was the first drongo to misinterpret your dribbling though.

[Katman]

If you had of got to the point instead of beating round the bush it would have been easier to understand.


Ok, let's remove the double negatives.


I have said that there are many times when fault must be shared. I have also said that there are times when fault doesn't lie with the motorcyclist.


Now if I'd said that, there would be cries of "Bullshit, you've never said those words" (which I don't recall ever having done so).

Hence the need for the double negatives.

[MSTRS]

Is it reasonable to assume that no matter what someone posts, the content will be interpreted in different ways by different readers? Ways that were never intended by the OP.
And that whenever KM posts, because of some past ... indiscretions ... shall we say ... that for some readers, the red mist descends - and it's all on?

[willytheekid]

.......:corn:

[Eyegasm]

.......:corn:

OI... Share!!!

Just made me hungry for popcorn.

[Genie]

Is it reasonable to assume that no matter what someone posts, the content will be interpreted in different ways by different readers? Ways that were never intended by the OP.
And that whenever KM posts, because of some past ... indiscretions ... shall we say ... that for some readers, the red mist descends - and it's all on?

as always, it's each to their own and as you say, we all interpret it in our own head in our own voice...:blink:

like when you type you sound just like me :woohoo:

[MSTRS]

as always, it's each to their own and as you say, we all interpret it in our own head in our own voice...:blink:

like when you type you sound just like me :woohoo:

The voices are always clear...I know what they are saying. Do you really want to find out?

[StoneY]

The voices are always clear...I know what they are saying. Do you really want to find out?

In your case MSTRS they're speaking in tongues I am sure....buwahahahahaha

[MSTRS]

:bleh: apparently the ladies love it :nya: :innocent:

[avgas]

http://www.cs.albany.edu/~mosh/Birds/drongo.jpg

Who here likes birds?

[MSTRS]

Yep. And prophetic?
http://www.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/5988450/2/istockphoto_5988450-poultry-roast-chicken.jpg

[avgas]

Yep. And prophetic?
http://www.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/5988450/2/istockphoto_5988450-poultry-roast-chicken.jpg
Thats not a drongo, thats a chicken!
Drongo's are faster than chickens!

[george formby]

Thats not a drongo, thats a chicken!
Drongo's are faster than chickens!

Ah, but are they as tasty?

[Grubber]

To be more honest than might be strictly nescessary that's almost certainly because thay get frustrated at your lack of ability to do it for yourself. The fact that drongos can do it better is a telling commentary on your inteligence.
Hmmmm. Wish i had read this thread earlier. You actually make sense here. Guess your not one of the DRONGOS. KM's favorite new word apparently.


You couldn't have got it more wrong if you'd tried. :facepalm:


When you take out a double negative make sure you take out both. Taking out only one reverses the meaning of the sentence.

Looks like we've found our first drongo.

This is what i have been trying to tell you for the last week....sheesh! But will you listen, it seems not. Far too busy calling people Drongos it seems.



The 'telling commentary' is more on those drongos that refuse to understand that in any crash, a bit of 'fault' lies with all involved.

An another one that stills think that anyone elses opinion is wrong, hence you are a drongo. Do sleep with KM by any chance?


Mate, So I missed a "Never" in your statement.

If you had of got to the point instead of beating round the bush it would have been easier to understand.

But hey I'll put my hand up for first drongo!

I doubt I was the first drongo to misinterpret your dribbling though.

How true is that!


Ok, let's remove the double negatives.



Now if I'd said that, there would be cries of "Bullshit, you've never said those words" (which I don't recall ever having done so).

Hence the need for the double negatives.

Now the memory fades, oh dear!

[avgas]

Ah, but are they as tasty?
No.
But drongo's are easier to pick up off the road when the crash into a tree.
Chickens are wily and never test the boundaries.

[MSTRS]

An another one that stills think that anyone elses opinion is wrong, hence you are a drongo. Do sleep with KM by any chance?


It is NOT opinion to state that a bit of fault lies with all participants in a crash.
It IS opinion to state the same is true for ALL crashes.
Neither myself, nor KM has ever said the second.

[MSTRS]

Thats not a drongo, thats a chicken!
Drongo's are faster than chickens!


Ah, but are they as tasty?


No.


So what you are saying is that, ultimately, drongos are useless...

[Genie]

http://www.birding.in/images/Birds/white_bellied_drongo.jpg

I like birds and I see this one speaks with forked tail....bit like those that speak with forked tongue and those that speak out of their arse