No Hone, you cannot speak

[Colapop]

"But but but !!! I won the 'lection !!"

Cannot abide by the rules as stated to you prior to taking the oath aye Hone?

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/5284635/Speaker-refuses-to-swear-Harawira-in

[Gremlin]

Gets paid by Government/parliament etc, but doesn't want to play by all the rules?

Could we pay him with beads instead?

FFS... These monkeys (most mps) play games all day, wish they would put in some decent hours of constructive work like the rest of us.

[Bald Eagle]

Was happy enough to swear when first entered Parliament, now wants to

"swear allegiance to the Treaty of Waitangi rather than the queen"

a cheap grandstand again brother John. He is still happy to accept the Queens shillings every payday though. FFS what a tosser.

[Banditbandit]

Yeah . much as I hate to agree with you Pākehā ... he was elected - he knew the rules .. he needs to abide by them ... he did last time he was sworn in ...

He wouldn't get away with ignoring or disregarding kawa on a marae ... and he would insist people follow kawa ... this is a Pākehā kawa .. he should follow it ..

[oneofsix]

Particularily loved the bit where his supports were complaining about the lack of respect. where was his and their respect for the institution he chose to join? Opps forgot it is like racism and only works one way :facepalm: :angry:

[imdying]

Particularily loved the bit where his supports were complaining about the lack of respect.What makes you think those calls came from his supporters and not the house?

[oneofsix]

What makes you think those calls came from his supporters and not the house?

Good point. Having re-read it the reporter doesn't make it clear. Bugger now I want to know who, was it his supporters who were already showing a lack of respect for the house by not obeying the speaker or was it the MPs? I presume other 'workers' in parliament don't dare speak out.

Found out. I was wrong. NZ Herald


A National MP yelled "lack of respect" as he left the chamber.

[Banditbandit]

The report does not make it clear who called "shame" and "No respect" .. if it was the MPs then the comments were directed at Hone .. not in support of him.

[imdying]

Found out. I was wrong. NZ HeraldI did wonder... I thought you might have seen a video of it or something. Just seemed like a whitey politician thing to say rather than a wahine giving parliament shite.



That's like Te Reo for a bird in'it BanditBandit?


He has a point he wants to make, and they all twist the house to needs at times, so fair play to him.

[SPman]

to quote others
This is simply bullshit. There has long been an accepted practice around this: MPs get to make their statement (swearing allegiance to the Treaty, or to the people of New Zealand, or whatever), then they jump through the legal hoop and redo their affirmation in the proper form (http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1957/0088/latest/DLM316132.html#DLM316132). If you review the footage of MPs being sworn in after the last three elections you'll see a fair number of MPs doing this. Contrary to the Speaker's assertion, that is not "breaking the law". The affirmation is given. And what matters is that it is given, not what is said beforehand.

[Maha]

My Party Vote will not go to the party that aligns with that Hori.
Im sorry but that all he is, he cant stand the white man and has no place in NZ'S political future. It all about him, he show no respect at all towards the establishment and continues to be against all that it stands for....the sorry fuck was born that way, its in his blood to be a cunt.

[Banditbandit]

That's like Te Reo for a bird in'it BanditBandit?

I don't understand what you are asking ...




He has a point he wants to make, and they all twist the house to needs at times, so fair play to him.

Yeah .. he has a point .. and I happen to agree with him. BUT he knows the rules of being an MP .. this was not the time and place to make a stand. He expects people on his turf to live by his rules (fair enough) .. he should therefore live by the rules of other people's turf if he wishes to interact on that turf ...

[Crasherfromwayback]

Yeah .. he has a point .. and I happen to agree with him. BUT he knows the rules of being an MP .. this was not the time and place to make a stand. He expects people on his turf to live by his rules (fair enough) .. he should therefore live by the rules of other people's turf if he wishes to interact on that turf ...

Absolutely!

[riffer]

Anyone who changes his name from John Hadfield to Hone Harawira has certain "standards" to uphold I guess.

I don't believe that anyone who would disown one side of his whakapapa (grandfather was pakeha) for the other side on purely racial grounds should have any credibility in our society.

[Maha]

Anyone who changes his name from John Hadfield to Hone Harawira has certain "standards" to uphold I guess.

I don't believe that anyone who would disown one side of his whakapapa (grandfather was pakeha) for the other side on purely racial grounds should have any credibility in our society.

You wont find a full Maori anywhere, that bloodline ran out years ago...
Just ask that Irish fulla Ken Mair...:yes:
Anyone who says they are Maori are at best.....half right.

[BoristheBiter]

The thing he probably didn't know was until he is sworn in he gets no money, for him or his party.

[nzmikey]

I am off to go buy some "white"chocolate & some lil snowmen lollies & then i am going to find out where he lives & put them in his letter box & leave some on his pathway :Pokey: I think once a week over a 2 month period it may get to him :killingme

[yachtie10]

The thing he probably didn't know was until he is sworn in he gets no money, for him or his party.

according to one news he does get paid as an mp

what a dick

[SPman]

Quote
Isn't this (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10738437)

I, Hone Pani Tamati Waka Nene Harawira, swear that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Te Tiriti o Waitangi, that I will be honest and forthright in my efforts to advance the rights of the people of Tai Tokerau, that I will do my utmost to help all Maori people become full empowered citizens of this land and that I will do whatever I can to reduce inequalities in this country, so that all may one day be proud to call Aotearoa home. better and more reflective of modern New Zealand than this?
I, Hone Pani Tamati Waka Nene Harawira swear that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, Her heirs and successors, according to law. So help me God. That's the point Hone Harawira was trying to make today.
He was silenced, by an abuse of the Parliamentary process, by an old white man who disagrees. That man, Lockwood Smith, is stifling dissent, strangling our future and trying to suppress any debate over who we are and what it means to be a kiwi in modern New Zealand. And that is undemocratic and not befitting his role as Speaker of the House.

[mashman]

to quote others



This is simply bullshit. There has long been an accepted practice around this: MPs get to make their statement (swearing allegiance to the Treaty, or to the people of New Zealand, or whatever), then they jump through the legal hoop and redo their affirmation in the proper form. If you review the footage of MPs being sworn in after the last three elections you'll see a fair number of MPs doing this. Contrary to the Speaker's assertion, that is not "breaking the law". The affirmation is given. And what matters is that it is given, not what is said beforehand.




do you mean he has been singled out because of who he is? because he didn't want to do it the way some smug looking fucktarded white mother fucker (they're all white mother fuckers) was expecting it to happen? Or does I read your "others" quote wrongly moy flower?

[HenryDorsetCase]

Anyone who changes his name from John Hadfield to Hone Harawira has certain "standards" to uphold I guess.


source please

[HenryDorsetCase]

Quote
Isn't this (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10738437)

I, Hone Pani Tamati Waka Nene Harawira, swear that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Te Tiriti o Waitangi, that I will be honest and forthright in my efforts to advance the rights of the people of Tai Tokerau, that I will do my utmost to help all Maori people become full empowered citizens of this land and that I will do whatever I can to reduce inequalities in this country, so that all may one day be proud to call Aotearoa home. better and more reflective of modern New Zealand than this?
I, Hone Pani Tamati Waka Nene Harawira swear that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, Her heirs and successors, according to law. So help me God. That's the point Hone Harawira was trying to make today.
He was silenced, by an abuse of the Parliamentary process, by an old white man who disagrees. That man, Lockwood Smith, is stifling dissent, strangling our future and trying to suppress any debate over who we are and what it means to be a kiwi in modern New Zealand. And that is undemocratic and not befitting his role as Speaker of the House.

whatever. the problem I would have is swearing to your god. One affirms, these days. all the cool kids are doing it.

[malfunconz]

who cares ... half arse attempt by a half caste .

[Swoop]

Anyone who changes his name from John Hadfield to Hone Harawira has certain "standards" to uphold I guess.
Just like Steve (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipene_O'Regan) O'Regan.

BTW, he doesn't like it if you call him by his birth name... :blip:

[Hitcher]

What fucks me off are people who use racism to attack racism. In doing so they often end up making themselves look just as bad as the person they're seeking to ridicule.

[Pussy]

What fucks me off are people who use racism to attack racism. In doing so they often end up making themselves look just as bad as the person they're seeking to ridicule.

What was that, Sooty?? :)

[riffer]

source please

David Rankin, Ngapuhi.

http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/harawira-scolded-ngapuhi-elder-127449

[HenryDorsetCase]

David Rankin, Ngapuhi.

http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/harawira-scolded-ngapuhi-elder-127449

Thanks, that is fascinating. I will think of him as John Hatfield from now on, and my blood pressure will be its normal 180/110 instead of a million over several hundred thousand (oddly enough, about what he and his party will get from the gubblemunt to fund their erection campaigns. Awesome!

[riffer]

Thanks, that is fascinating. I will think of him as John Hatfield from now on, and my blood pressure will be its normal 180/110 instead of a million over several hundred thousand (oddly enough, about what he and his party will get from the gubblemunt to fund their erection campaigns. Awesome!

You're welcome.

[riffer]

Quote
Isn't this (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10738437)
I, Hone Pani Tamati Waka Nene Harawira, swear that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Te Tiriti o Waitangi, that I will be honest and forthright in my efforts to advance the rights of the people of Tai Tokerau, that I will do my utmost to help all Maori people become full empowered citizens of this land and that I will do whatever I can to reduce inequalities in this country, so that all may one day be proud to call Aotearoa home. better and more reflective of modern New Zealand than this?
I, Hone Pani Tamati Waka Nene Harawira swear that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, Her heirs and successors, according to law. So help me God. That's the point Hone Harawira was trying to make today.
He was silenced, by an abuse of the Parliamentary process, by an old white man who disagrees. That man, Lockwood Smith, is stifling dissent, strangling our future and trying to suppress any debate over who we are and what it means to be a kiwi in modern New Zealand. And that is undemocratic and not befitting his role as Speaker of the House.

Yes it is. But today and at Parliament was not the appropriate time or place to have that discussion. It was grandstanding, pure and simple, and it backfired hugely on him.

[Elysium]

At the end of the day Hone is still a complete clown.

[skinman]

The whole idea of having any group differentiated by race, be that maori, European, asian or any other is racism and should not be permitted. Therefore the maori seats should go, maori rugby team, school, any benefits that only maori get. Get the idea.
That Hone is an asshole & disrespected the whole parliamentary system that is paying him to be there. If you dont like the rules, dont play the game. That is not the way to change things.
Allegiance cannot be sworn to the treaty, its only a bit of paper. Allegiance can only be given to a person or organization.

Rant over

[oldrider]

Yeah . much as I hate to agree with you Pākehā ... he was elected - he knew the rules .. he needs to abide by them ... he did last time he was sworn in ...

He wouldn't get away with ignoring or disregarding kawa on a marae ... and he would insist people follow kawa ... this is a Pākehā kawa .. he should follow it ..

Pakeha kawa .... as agreed to in the treaty of Waitangi when they "all" (signatories that is) agreed to use "Westminster" protocol to govern this country? :confused:

I thought that is what I had read in the treaty but correct me if I am wrong please. :yes: (Long time ago!)

[Paul in NZ]

The sad thing about all of this is that ALL Kiwis are ready and I think in some cases want a strong, inspired Maori leadership that can build bridges and allow us to move forwards. I just cant see Hone doing this and its a darn shame.

[BoristheBiter]

The sad thing about all of this is that ALL Kiwis are ready and I think in some cases want a strong, inspired Maori leadership that can build bridges and allow us to move forwards. I just cant see Hone doing this and its a darn shame.

Yep, so are the rest of us.

Unfortunately he just wants to keep Maori in his area down (no other areas would vote for him, wrong tribe) and use the white man as the blame for this for if the did start to pull themselves up they would see what a complete cock he really is.

[Banditbandit]

Quote
Isn't this (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10738437)

I, Hone Pani Tamati Waka Nene Harawira, swear that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Te Tiriti o Waitangi, that I will be honest and forthright in my efforts to advance the rights of the people of Tai Tokerau, that I will do my utmost to help all Maori people become full empowered citizens of this land and that I will do whatever I can to reduce inequalities in this country, so that all may one day be proud to call Aotearoa home. better and more reflective of modern New Zealand than this?
I, Hone Pani Tamati Waka Nene Harawira swear that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, Her heirs and successors, according to law. So help me God. That's the point Hone Harawira was trying to make today.
He was silenced, by an abuse of the Parliamentary process, by an old white man who disagrees. That man, Lockwood Smith, is stifling dissent, strangling our future and trying to suppress any debate over who we are and what it means to be a kiwi in modern New Zealand. And that is undemocratic and not befitting his role as Speaker of the House.

Ka tika tō kōrero ... engari ... I agree with most of what you say. I'm a Repblican through and through and I do nto believe he should swear allegiance to the queen of a rock on the other side of the world (that made my Pākehā tipuna refugees).

BUT ... that happens to be the legal oath of this country. He can make any stand he likes now ... and it will have no effect. He will be sworn in using the correct oath .. and I'll bet you he does nothing about changing the oath once is in in a position to make a difference. Several other Māori MPs have made the same stand at the time of swearing the oath .. and did they try to change the law after that? NO!

It's a bullshit token gesture ... they don't back it up with action ...

[Banditbandit]

Pakeha kawa .... as agreed to in the treaty of Waitangi when they "all" (signatories that is) agreed to use "Westminster" protocol to govern this country? :confused:

I thought that is what I had read in the treaty but correct me if I am wrong please. :yes: (Long time ago!)

Hmmm ... I don't think the treaty agrees to use Westminster protocols ... It certainly doesn't agree that New Zealand will have a democracy ... but that's a large part of the problem ... two contradictory versions of the treaty and too much room for interpretation.

[Bald Eagle]

... two contradictory versions of the treaty and too much room for interpretation.


So maybe we need to negotiate a new treaty ... :rofl:

[imdying]

Yeah .. he has a point .. and I happen to agree with him. BUT he knows the rules of being an MP .. this was not the time and place to make a stand. He expects people on his turf to live by his rules (fair enough) .. he should therefore live by the rules of other people's turf if he wishes to interact on that turf ...It's not other peoples turf, governance of the Maori people in their own country belongs to the Maori people, it's a right afforded to them by the treaty.

[Banditbandit]

It's not other peoples turf, governance of the Maori people in their own country belongs to the Maori people, it's a right afforded to them by the treaty.

Yeah yeah .. you know what I meant ...

[Bald Eagle]

... two contradictory versions of the treaty and too much room for interpretation.


So maybe we need to negotiate a new treaty ... :rofl:


It's not other peoples turf, governance of the Maori people in their own country belongs to the Maori people, it's a right afforded to them by the treaty.


... but which treaty ?

[Banditbandit]

So maybe we need to negotiate a new treaty ... :rofl:

That's not such a funny idea .. I've thought that for a while ...

The problem is between who? As people here regularly point out there are no "pure" Maori any more. And I also believe there are more people of mixed heritage than people realise.

So deciding who belongs into which side of the negotiations is a massive problem ..

And is that actually the point? We are becoming Hobson's fictional-at-the-time One People .. it's just the growing pains of that process ...

The Celts were pretty pissed off at the Saxons and the Saxons were pretty pissed off at the Normans ... Now they are all Anglo-Saxons ... We will, eventually, and quite soon, basically become one people ... The discussion is just "On whose terms?"

That's what we need to talk about ..

[Banditbandit]

It's not other peoples turf, governance of the Maori people in their own country belongs to the Maori people, it's a right afforded to them by the treaty.

Actually, when you frame it that way I would have to agree - that's a statement of Tino Rangatiratanga .. but the reality has been Governance of us by the white Colonial Government - all the way to today's neo-colonial Government.

[dogsnbikes]

So maybe we need to negotiate a new treaty ... :rofl:

With the chinese prehaps they have momey:innocent:

As the NZFRU and NZleague have already negotiated with Fiji,Tonga,Samoa,Nuie,Cook Islands and Australia :lol:

[oldrider]

Actually, when you frame it that way I would have to agree - that's a statement of Tino Rangatiratanga .. but the reality has been Governance of us by the white Colonial Government - all the way to today's neo-colonial Government.

Bit like union members standing back and allowing people they don't like (or even agree with I.E. Poms!) to run their union!

Then moaning about it outside the meeting room but never ever actually doing anything about it!

Well that is the only thing that I have always said I like about the advent of MMP, albeit belatedly, Maori have now got off their moaning arse and are now "in" parliament actively contributing to running the country, the way they want it run!

OK, OK, so it's a somewhat stuttering start but at least they are doing it themselves, instead of leaving it to the Labour party to bullshit them that they can't do it on their own! (just like the pommy union reps do it)

Hone is just an opportunist that is trying to capitalise on Maori apathy before it is too late and he is also taking advantage of the plethora of assorted wankers that are currently available to back him into power I.E. the (background) Mana party members.

Hone is really just a terrorist in sheep's clothing but as I have said before, underestimate him, at your peril, he is no slug IMHO and he deserves to be respected as a dangerous adversary!

Actually Hone has a lot of attributes that I personally admire!

The problem with the current treaties is that neither "party" really understood it's meaning and as a result of that, coupled with there being "two" versions, multiple interpretations and expectations, "nobody can honour it" to the satisfaction of the others!

Until "Maori" (whoever they really are now?) stand up and represent themselves, there will only ever be a continuance of the status quo and who is ever going to get any benefit out of that?

If Hone is what it takes to get Maori activated and politicly motivated, so be it but so far for me it's the Maori party members that have demonstrated where the true "mana" exists.

This is simply my own opinion, (I am prepared to be corrected) based upon almost (October) 72 years of being part of this confusing and frustrating situation! :scratch:

[HenryDorsetCase]

When I rule you all (and I will) there will be none of this bollocks.

[Waxxa]

Hone Harawira is no 'leader of the people'. He is a radical that has been indoctrinated by his mother since he was born. He only looks after his own (iwi) and stuff anyone else, including other Maori.

This is the down side of MMP!

This guy gets kicked out of a political party only to get enough support from his iwi to start up another political party (@ $140 000 per year + expenses) and still cannot show maturity and leadership that comes in being a Leader. No, this guy is poison!

[Indiana_Jones]

This is the down side of MMP!



He would of still got the seat if it was FFP. It's an electorate seat.

MMP is a shitty system because people who didn't win their electorate still get in as they're on a party list.

-Indy

[Banditbandit]

When I rule you all (and I will) there will be none of this bollocks.

Yeah .. Naaa .. I'm a good shot and I believe assassination is an appropriate political weapon .. dictators are a prime target

[oldrider]

Yeah .. Naaa .. I'm a good shot and I believe assassination is an appropriate political weapon .. dictators are a prime target

True! :lol:

As one gets older and older .... the less penalty time left to serve! :yes:

The temptation is almost unbearable at times! :mellow:

(Alzheimer's is a worry though, remembering who, what, where, why and of course, how!) :sick:

[HenryDorsetCase]

He would of still got the seat if it was FFP. It's an electorate seat.

MMP is a shitty system because people who didn't win their electorate still get in as they're on a party list.

-Indy

agreed: STV, bitches!!

[HenryDorsetCase]

Yeah .. Naaa .. I'm a good shot and I believe assassination is an appropriate political weapon .. dictators are a prime target

I pay the SAS wages out of my pocket. No one's taken a shot at Frank Bananarama yet (that Ive heard about) so if he can, I can!

[oldrider]

agreed: STV, bitches!!

Does that mean you do or don't favour STV? :confused:

I have always thought STV puts the candidate more accountable to the voters but the latest offering apparently has been made too confusing!

I wonder why they would do that? Tui!

I haven't seen what they propose to offer us this time, yet!

[mashman]

(Alzheimer's is a worry though, remembering who, what, where, why and of course, how!)


I'm kinda banking on that in some strange way :).



When I rule you all (and I will) there will be none of this bollocks.


I shall attempt to channel the powers of Nick Smith and we shall join forces... they will all be our soles... if they aren't already. We will remove the Bandit first.

I feel sorry for Hone. If he serves his constituency, then he's doing his job. Therefore his opinion should also stand at a parliamentary level. Shit... you voted John Key, Nick Smith et al in :facepalm:

[Usarka]

Going to eat your brains and get your knowledge.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Going to eat your brains and get your knowledge.

It didnt work for me that time I ate the monkey brain in China. All it left me with was the impulse to throw poo at people and eat bananas. Win-win we call that in the trade.

[SPman]

Yeah .. Naaa .. I'm a good shot and I believe assassination is an appropriate political weapon .. dictators are a prime target
I think targeted assasination should be used more often.....and I mean targeted - not a random "blow up someone" attempt that normally kills everyone else, but.....where's Sniper these days........?

[Banditbandit]

I pay the SAS wages out of my pocket. No one's taken a shot at Frank Bananarama yet (that Ive heard about) so if he can, I can!

Yes. If I was in Fiji he'd be one of the first ..


I think targeted assasination should be used more often.....and I mean targeted - not a random "blow up someone" attempt that normally kills everyone else, but.....where's Sniper these days........?

Definitely. The use of violence must be appropriate - history has proven the theory of Terrorism is wrong .. the Bader-Meinhoff and Red Army proved that conclusively ...