Know about relays? I need some help - urgently

[rapid van cleef]

HI guys. ive found this site and a detailed and easy to follow instructions for making an accessory relay. Im almost done except i need to find which wire is hot when ignition on, and dead, when ignition off. The article suggest using the tail light feed. but bugger me, if i can uss out which cable/ colour it is on my spaghetti filled bike.

bike is a zx10r with led tail lights

can someone suggest an alternative to using the tail light or help me find the correct cable to tap into for the switch aspect of the relay

heres the link to the relay design

http://www.canyonchasers.net/shop/generic/relay.php

any help appreciated

im not an electrician but i am quite confident and can follow instructions no probs as long as they are in laymans terms



thanks

[rapid van cleef]

well, i just had a thought. to use a suitable power source/ switch signal to turn on the relay can i use the cable that comes out of the back of the fuse block connected to the tail light circuit?

the cable that comes out out of the back of the tail light fuse runs up the harness to the nightmare of cables that go to the led taillight.( but this cable runs stright into the taillight and bypasses all of the resistors etc) can i tap into that for a suitable source to switch the realy?


or can i simply push the same cable from the relay switch terminal into the socket where the tail light fuse sits in then fuse back in? doesnt look as good but way easier

will that trigger the switch aspect of a relay and switch off when the ignition is off?

im really struggling to get access to enough cable as the wiring is very tight

heres hoping for some help. ive fond ive got the bug for electronics.....just need some hlep thats all

thanks guys

[glegge]

You can just take a feed from the fuse box.use a test lamp.one side grounded.turn key on, probe fuses until you find a live one.turn key off and make sure test light goes off.if it does, take the fused side...pull the fuse turn key on and find the dead pin where the fuse goes.take a wire from the re to the coil side of your relay.plug fuse in.ground other side of relay cool.turn key on, relay will click.of course if you can get wiring diagram for your bike life will become simpler.

[glegge]

Look at your other thread I mentioned the same thing there.our give me a call.0274418337

[FJRider]

heres hoping for some help. ive fond ive got the bug for electronics.....just need some hlep thats all

thanks guys

Electronic's may be your Forte ... but the English language (as written) ... is not ...

But ...

Hook into where there IS power ..... when the ignition is ON ...

[glegge]

I blame my phone I am posting from.still better than no help at all?

[rapid van cleef]

thanks for the criticism, that really helped a lot.

[rapid van cleef]

I blame my phone I am posting from.still better than no help at all?

yeah, thanks so much for that. im just having dinner then back to the shed and i'll get onto it

thanks very much for your detailed answer.

[FJRider]

thanks for the criticism, that really helped a lot.

It comes with/AS the site "fee's"

[rapid van cleef]

'You can just take a feed from the fuse box.use a test lamp.one side grounded.turn key on, probe fuses until you find a live one.turn key off and make sure test light goes off.if it does, take the fused side...pull the fuse turn key on and find the dead pin where the fuse goes.take a wire from the re to the coil side of your relay.plug fuse in.ground other side of relay cool.turn key on, relay will click.of course if you can get wiring diagram for your bike life will become simpler. '

ok, er. i have not got a test lamp. i do have circuit tester though. im no electrician but i know how to set it to see if there is a complete circuit, which i do with the audio alert to confirm the circuit is complete.

so can i just use that instead of a test lamp? the relay is a 4 pin 12v auto relay.

so the wire will have to go into the pin/terminal that goes dead when the ignition is off. that means im going to have to try and get a wire into the back of the fuse block.....hmm


i'll go have a lookat it.

the actual instructions say to tap into the tail light feed on the way from the fuse box to the tail light. there is only 1 wire coming out of the back of the fuse holder for the tail light. is that the wire i could tap into?

when the buggers at kwaka wired up me bike they left no bloody room for manouvering the cables at all. its very tight and tied and shrink wrapped up. dam them for being so neat and tidy. but an extra few cm of cable would have helped

[glegge]

ok, on a real computer now, so barring typo's i hope this is a little better.

As for your circuit tester, it sounds like it may help, but you can set it to volts, ground one side and then look for 12volts on the fuse. this will do the same job as a test lamp - when the volt meter says 12 volts (or there abouts) the lamb would be glowing. just make sure you ground (battery or bike frame/engine) the black negative wire to the meter.

ok, it sounds like you may have already found the wire from the fuse box to the tail light so yes, thats the one. but just to be on the save side, put your meter on the wire you want to tap into (somehow) and make sure when you pull the fuse and then turn on the ignition, that the meter shows 0 volts still, (and the tail light does not go now), of course plugging the fuse in should make the tail light go, and the meter show 12 volts or there abouts.

so from there yes, your ok to somehow tap into that wire (if you look closley i find you can usually push a small tab inside the fuse holder and the socket will come out, then you can attach your wire to it and re-insert it back into the fuse holder. this makes a neat job).

so take that wire to the one of the coil pins on the relay, the other side of the coil (the other coil pin on the realy) to ground (bike frame, battery negative terminal or engine block). then you can try it. it should click when you turn on the bike and click again when you turn it off.

then you can run a wire from the positive battery terminal, to a FUSE (important) then to one of the relay 'switched' terminals, the other side will go to the distribution block which was shown in the picture you linked too.

i hope this helps.
i'm happy to chat on the phone (i talk better than i type) if that helps at all. so no worries there.
good luck.
cheers
Gavin

[glegge]

oh yeah, i was just thinking, if you look at the color of the wire to the tail light as it goes into the actually tail light, you can probably check the wire at the fuse box is the same, there not always, but if it is then thats a good sign you brobably have the right one.
also for joining wires, if you cannot get into the back of the fuse bot or anywhere else that you can connect to at an existing join, you can strip away some of the insulation, solder a wire on, and then tape up the join. it's tricky but possible. try on some old bits of wire first.

[pete376403]

You can get a test light from supercheap that has a lead with a crocodile clip, and the body of the test light has a sharp pin point that you can push through insulation.
The one shown is from Snap-On, which means it's priced right up there (solid gold contacts or something) but the cheap ones are just as useful.

The clip goes to earth and you probe around till the light comes on and you find the powered wire you're after.

[DEATH_INC.]

Use the power feed to the rear brake switch, it's easier to find....

[FJRider]

oh yeah, i was just thinking, if you look at the color of the wire to the tail light as it goes into the actually tail light, you can probably check the wire at the fuse box is the same, there not always, but if it is then thats a good sign you brobably have the right one.
also for joining wires, if you cannot get into the back of the fuse bot or anywhere else that you can connect to at an existing join, you can strip away some of the insulation, solder a wire on, and then tape up the join. it's tricky but possible. try on some old bits of wire first.

OR ... you cold look at the wiring diagram in the workshop manual ... and KNOW what SHOULD go where ... AND WHERE IT IS ...

[rapid van cleef]

some great advice here guys, thanks so much

someone has just advised me that i should use a relay with a protection diode in it. seeing as my bike has an ecu and there is some sort of 'emf back spark' that can be created by the relay going on and off and possibly bugger my ecu.

[FJRider]

oh yeah, i was just thinking, if you look at the color of the wire to the tail light as it goes into the actually tail light, you can probably check the wire at the fuse box is the same, there not always, but if it is then thats a good sign you brobably have the right one.
also for joining wires, if you cannot get into the back of the fuse bot or anywhere else that you can connect to at an existing join, you can strip away some of the insulation, solder a wire on, and then tape up the join. it's tricky but possible. try on some old bits of wire first.

DON'T think ... it will only confuse you ...

"Probably right" means ... you still don't know ... for sure ...

Perhaps a workshop manual may be a good investment for the OP ...

Solder is SO yesterday ... Crimp and GO is TODAY ... GET WITH IT ...

[glegge]

interesting, if it where me i would not worry to much as i think pushing the start button would probably cause more back EMF. anyway - not wanting to get into a technical discussion. so up to you really.
also you could put a diode across the relay coil on the outside, this would do the same thing (just means you would have to get the positive/neg wires going to the relay coil the correct way around.)
anyway - i would not let that stop you right now, you could install one of these relays at a later date if your in a hurry to get this going tonight/this weekend.


some great advice here guys, thanks so much

someone has just advised me that i should use a relay with a protection diode in it. seeing as my bike has an ecu and there is some sort of 'emf back spark' that can be created by the relay going on and off and possibly bugger my ecu.

[glegge]

also - here is a GREAT web page on relays, it covers diodes across them near the bottom. fill ya boots!

http://www.bcae1.com/relays.htm

[rapid van cleef]

great, its all wired up and working. powers on and off with my ignition! thats the first electrical circuit i have made since batteries
and light bulbs at school 25 years ago!

thanks for the helpful comments guys

[glegge]

great stuff. well done that man.

enjoy the power!

cheers
Gavin

[thepom]

Pot....kettle..............

"OR ... you cold look at the wiring diagram in the workshop manual ... and KNOW what SHOULD go where ... AND WHERE IT IS ..."


Spot the deliberate mistake.......:facepalm: