What would you prefer? [Archive]

theseekerfinds

18th August 2011, 19:41

onearmedbandit

18th August 2011, 19:44

enforcement has never & will never work more so for bikers & is a big part why bikers do tell the "popo" to "sod off" when it comes to engagement. Think a start would be to setup points where bikers could approach the "popo" that way the biker has no need to feel discriminated against or targeted as per say

just my thoughts

I don't understand this. Lets use speeding as an example. We all know what the limit is, and it's our choice to break it. Are we expecting to get the police to 'work with us' on this issue? I've only ever been targeted by the police when I've been doing something wrong.

blackdog

18th August 2011, 19:47

Trolling right.

What works best for me is if I am minding my own business, how 'bout you mind yours.

Stopping me for a 'chat' about anything other than an infringement will be met with contempt.

'Big Brother' in action, it doesn't wash with me sorry.

Big Dave

18th August 2011, 19:49

Scuba_Steve

18th August 2011, 19:59

I don't understand this. Lets use speeding as an example. We all know what the limit is, and it's our choice to break it. Are we expecting to get the police to 'work with us' on this issue? I've only ever been targeted by the police when I've been doing something wrong.

speeding yes we all know & most of us also know it's just a scam, but there are many more laws out there too lots which aren't just scams, lots people are ignorant of and then there are things like ATGATT which should never be law but should be made known why you want it, from there yes people can make their own decisions but they should have the info to make their own decisions.

White trash

18th August 2011, 20:03

I've enjoyed leniance from cops when I was doing things I shouldn't have been, and been subject to harrasment when parked in a carpark with a group of other bikers. From a self proclaimed biker cop as well. Don't get me started on being arrested and charged for dangerous driving by some jumped up dog handler who thought his shit didn't stink.

Doesn't really answer your question sorry. But I've got a hell of alot more respect for the police who have nicked me fair and square, not been condescending ACC parrots, and above all proffessional.

nosebleed

18th August 2011, 20:07

This

Estrangement.

And this

Trolling right.

What works best for me is if I am minding my own business, how 'bout you mind yours.

Stopping me for a 'chat' about anything other than an infringement will be met with contempt.

'Big Brother' in action, it doesn't wash with me sorry.

rastuscat

18th August 2011, 20:12

Big Dave

18th August 2011, 20:16

I would read into it: Use your discretion.

davereid

18th August 2011, 20:16

If a cop is interested in teaching me to ride this well, I'll listen to everything he has to say.

http://youtu.be/bWaq0zOaAVU

Id see random stopping, lectures and rego checks as irritating not engaging.

And well organised opportunities to learn from professional riders very positive.

Ocean1

18th August 2011, 20:22

Comments?

Recognise that there are as many different versions of motorcycle lore as there are cultural shades of motorcyclists. Many of these sub-cultures amount to a collection of behaviours as effective at minimising risk as police motorcycle lore, in spite of huge differences in “content” and “attitude”.

Accepting this, who would you imagine should be the teacher and who the pupil? Me? I’d love a regular argument with the local police riders, (don’t think there’s many of them nowadays though) over a beer. Might even tempt a few to the dark side eh? Whether or no, there might well be shit learned all round.

bogan

18th August 2011, 20:23

I like that you're thinking about this stuff.

I think leave the enforcement as SOP, if somebody is doing dumb shit ticket them, regardless of vehicle. IMO targetting and ticketing just one type of vehicle is not a good way to affect a permanent change of attitude (in a positive way anyway).

An engagement campaign will likely go down a lot better. But it is a very fine, and often wiggly, line between it being interpreted as engagement, or harassment. Easiest way to stay on the right side is make it voluntary. Set up a voluntary checkpoint, you might just get a heap of bikers stopping out of curiosity alone, promise no tickets will be issued and you might get a few more. Obviously you would need some good educational material, many notches above what was dished out at the ACC ones.

White trash

18th August 2011, 20:24

Interesting bunch of responses.

Not sure what to read into it.

Maybe I'll just go hide in a bush and dish out some usual responses. It seems to be easier to just default to that then actually try to find out what might work.

Shouldn't be your job to find out what might work mate. It's your job to catch people breaking the law. Given your thought provoking posts on this very forum, it's obvious you're a forward thinking officer who possibly excercises a bit of discretion where you feel its warranted.

If you pull me up after witnessing my truely awesome 160kph stand-up wheelie down the motorway through traffic on a Saturday morning, I'll take my medicine.

If you're hiding in the bushes on a deserted stretch of the plains and ping me at 113kph, while I'll take the ticket on the chin (I was speeding after all) but I'd have more respect for the officer if he offered a "Jimmy, you know the speed limit, I'm waggling my finger at you and teling you to be more aware of where we are probably hiding to catch some dangerous cunts"

Those are my thoughts.

rastuscat

18th August 2011, 20:25

And there's the problem, very few experienced motorcyclists in the police force.

Yes. Bugger all.

Motorcycle Popos come in 2 varietals.

Those who ride personal bikes who also ride patrol bikes. These are the ones that get paid for doing what they like to do i.e. ride bikes. These guys have had to do a fairly strenuous qualifying course, and who have to requalify each year. They get selected i.e. very few who want to ever get to be a motorcycle Popo. This is also because to be a MC Popo you have to work in Road Policing, which some 'real Popos' just wouldn't do.

Think there's about 26 of us nationwide. Used to be more (about 40, I think), but the fleet consolidation a couple of years ago saw the bikes gone from a few towns.

The others are those who ride their own bikes, but turn up and do whatever other job they have in Popoland. Most don't work in Road Policing. Experience varies hugely.

It's not easy to 'engage' in discourse when you don't have empathy with who you're working with. Maybe that's why Popos default to enforcement, coz on the whole, they don't know any better.

Harumph.

Oblivion

18th August 2011, 20:34

If you're hiding in the bushes on a deserted stretch of the plains and ping me at 113kph, while I'll take the ticket on the chin (I was speeding after all) but I'd have more respect for the officer if he offered a "Jimmy, you know the speed limit, I'm waggling my finger at you and teling you to be more aware of where we are probably hiding to catch some dangerous cunts"

Those are my thoughts.

+1

Thats exactly what I think as well. The Police shouldn't be out there just to ping Mr Joe Bloggs because he went 105.5 on a straight stretch of road on Labour day. The thing about speeding, is there is a difference between safe speeding and downright dangerous and potentially lethal speeding. Going 120kmph on a straight boring stretch of road with no traffic is a totally different story than the dumb shits choice to do 70kmph wheelies in a 50kmph zone in rush hour. If I got pinged for going over the speed limit in a safe environment, then it is my fault for speeding. Extra points for the cop for understanding that I was being as safe as I could and not doing anything to endanger my life as well as anyone elses. But if someone did something stupid on the road, (Which seems to be the norm for people round my age) Then give the shithead a ticket, and while you at it impound his vehicle for 30 days. :Police:

rastuscat

18th August 2011, 20:46

If you pull me up after witnessing my truely awesome 160kph stand-up wheelie down the motorway through traffic on a Saturday morning, I'll take my medicine.

Witnessed a KB member do a mono across Bealey Ave, ChurChur about 5 years ago. For a reason particular to the rider it was awe inspiring. He followed your advice, just sucked it up, took it on the chin, all that sort of thing. I stood back and admired the bike and smiled and chortled (with the rider, BTW, even he was cool about it all), while the boss I was with (my boss) dished out the pain.

It's hard to balance being a bike rider and a Popo. But I'll manage :shifty:

Donuts.

Jack Miller

18th August 2011, 21:11

So, what would work best for you? Enforcement? Engagement?
Comments?

I was going to start a thread on riding to the lowest common enforcement denominator. Still might. In the meantime, it is relevant here. As you've indicated there is a wide range of attitudes, personalities, and role perception throughout the Popo community. There's guys like you who will turn a blind eye to someone doing 120 in a passing lane, especially if it looks like the vehicle they're overtaking has sped up. You'll even pull over and ticket slow drivers who impede others. On the other hand there ARE Popos (don't deny it or you'll lose all credibility) who specifically hunt in easy "fishing holes" like passing lanes to look good to those bosses who like to see a high ticket count. This leaves us with a major problem. We have to ride assuming that there is a Popo hidden on every passing lane. i.e.; we have to ride to the lowest common enforcement denominator.

At best this forces frustration, it also forces us to stay in road trains that are dangerous and get more so as all the drivers' tempers rise the longer it goes on, instead of simply zapping past into the safety of a less densely trafficked section of road. This is very significant to motorcyclists who are both more at risk in a road train and more easily able to zap out of it. At worst, and an AA member survey confirms this, it causes people to overtake at places other than passing lanes, which wastes the investment we taxpayers have made in the passing lanes and is usually more dangerous.

You, and every competent, skilled rider knows what is safest. Yet some Popos enforce the opposite, and doing so force us to ride less safely. So long as we are riding less safely to protect ourselves from the lowest Popos NO Popo-initiated motorcycle safety campaign will get a favourable reception.

Jack Miller

18th August 2011, 21:18

rastuscat

18th August 2011, 21:28

Ah well, provoked a few thoughts, and that's never bad.

Even prodded Jack out of his cave.

Donuts.

rastuscat

18th August 2011, 21:36

On the other hand there ARE Popos (don't deny it or you'll lose all credibility) who specifically hunt in easy "fishing holes" like passing lanes to look good to those bosses who like to see a high ticket count.

Indeed Jacko.

Thing is, the Popos you mention keep the paranoia up. If it's paranoia that keeps the 85th percentile down, I can't argue much with the tactic. I just don't do it myself.

If there were no fish, the holes wouldn't exist. Sadly self defeating.

Like I said, it's hard to defend (and I'm not), but it actually works.

For some it's about the quantity of tickets written, for others it's about the quality. Any time you have an output capable of being counted, that output will be used in different ways by different people for different purposes. That's goal displacement, a la Management 101.

:done:

Road kill

18th August 2011, 21:37

Can't answer the poll.

I don't want anything to do with the police,,,so if I'm not seen to be breaking the law,,just leave me the hell alone.

Scuba_Steve

18th August 2011, 21:43

Indeed Jacko.

Thing is, the Popos you mention keep the paranoia up. If it's paranoia that keeps the 85th percentile down, I can't argue much with the tactic. I just don't do it myself.

If there were no fish, the holes wouldn't exist. Sadly self defeating.

Like I said, it's hard to defend (and I'm not), but it actually works.

For some it's about the quantity of tickets written, for others it's about the quality. Any time you have an output capable of being counted, that output will be used in different ways by different people for different purposes. That's goal displacement, a la Management 101.

:done:

does it??? with my time on the road (and I spend ALOT of time on it) we currently have some of the slowest drivers we've ever had in my driving life... But as speed went down so did driving ability it seems, as now we have some of the worst drivers we ever had (again my driving life)

So yes they've slowed people down, but to the detriment of safety & driving ability, is that really a win???

Madness

18th August 2011, 22:10

It's slowed people down but at the same time it has created the estrangement that has seeped deep into law abiding NZ homes & families to ever increasing levels. Is it worth it, assuming there must be other options available.

rastuscat

18th August 2011, 22:11

does it??? with my time on the road (and I spend ALOT of time on it) we currently have some of the slowest drivers we've ever had in my driving life... But as speed went down so did driving ability it seems,

Yes, and given that drivers are as bad as we all bang on about, isn't it a good thing all the bad drivers have slowed down?

as now we have some of the worst drivers we ever had (again my driving life)

So yes they've slowed people down, but to the detriment of safety & driving ability, is that really a win???

http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/road-deaths/toll.html

I'd call THAT a win. I'd be okay with lots more people being killed on the roads, as long as I could nominate who they were.............

Oh so tempting to relate the lower road toll to the changes in enforcement BUT I know we are just a part of the equation. Better cars, better engineering, higher petrol costs, updated legislation. These things all play a part. But so does our enforcement.

Okay, bring on the derision.

But why, really, do we bang on about how we have the worst drivers in the world, then bitch when we try to slow these people down so that when they crash (as is inevitable, given that the OP (other people) are such crap drivers)? Huh? Maybe we just let those really crap drivers (other people, obviously not us), drive and crash as fast as they want.

Harumph.

Jack Miller

18th August 2011, 22:17

Interesting bunch of responses.
Not sure what to read into it.
Maybe I'll just go hide in a bush and dish out some usual responses. It seems to be easier to just default to that then actually try to find out what might work.

You're too smart for that. I think it's time for a career change. You're on a hiding to nothing trying to improve road safety as a Popo for two reasons:

The first is well put by the AA in their discussion paper on issues for the 2020 NZLT Safety Strategy:
"To date the NZ approach to road safety has been to make crashes and their causes illegal and make preventing them a role for the Police. In fact, Police cannot prevent many crashes because many are not caused by illegal activity"

The second is because you can't control the behaviour of all Popos. There ARE some Popos who make the roads less safe by their enforcement antics. Their existence undermines the credibility of any Popo-initiated safety campaign. Furthermore, there are even Popos who's riskily operated vehicles have maimed and even killed motorcyclists. Without getting into the rights and wrongs of this it sets up an impossibly difficult environment for you as a Popo.

Like any career change this will take some initial personal investment, but only time, not money (except perhaps the odd ferry ticket to get you & your bike across Cook Straight for some North Island meetings.) Get yourself round the interested parties including ACC, AA, BRONZ, Bike & safety gear retailers & importers, riding schools, Steven Joyce, & others that you'll be aware of. Ask them what they'd like to see done about motorcyclist safety (ACC might want to say "get them off the road" but I doubt they'd say it out loud) and give them your initial thoughts. Then process everything they said and your own ideas and come up with a plan. Take them all through the plan - even get them all together in one place for the presentation if you can. You're a Popo that wants to make a difference - they'll come. Then ask them for a job to implement the plan. You'll get one of three responses:
1. One of them will say yes
2. Some or all of them will agree to form a consortium to pay you
3. One of them will say "interesting plan, we can't cover it all but we were thinking of getting someone to do X, which is a good part of it. Here's the job description we were drafting. Want the job?"
Of course you might get the 4th response: "no thanks" from everyone, but I doubt it.

You sound frustrated where you are, which is inevitable if you want to make a difference to motorcyclist road safety. Time to take your vocation to the next step I think.

Scuba_Steve

18th August 2011, 22:22

Yes, and given that drivers are as bad as we all bang on about, isn't it a good thing all the bad drivers have slowed down?

http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/road-deaths/toll.html

I'd call THAT a win. I'd be okay with lots more people being killed on the roads, as long as I could nominate who they were.............

Oh so tempting to relate the lower road toll to the changes in enforcement BUT I know we are just a part of the equation. Better cars, better engineering, higher petrol costs, updated legislation. These things all play a part. But so does our enforcement.

Okay, bring on the derision.

But why, really, do we bang on about how we have the worst drivers in the world, then bitch when we try to slow these people down so that when they crash (as is inevitable, given that the OP (other people) are such crap drivers)? Huh? Maybe we just let those really crap drivers (other people, obviously not us), drive and crash as fast as they want.

Harumph.

The bad drivers came with the slower speeds. Speed has been inforced to the detriment of safety.

See that "win" as the Govt & :Police: like to claim is misleading to say the least, swap everyones modern airbag'd, safety cages for the old 80's piece of steel & see how those rates hold up!!!

Oh and we mustn't forget less than 30% of fatalities are caused by "speed" or drink less than 30%. using the same warped process you guys use to justify your stats that shows "speeding" saves lives

Kickaha

18th August 2011, 22:46

does it??? with my time on the road (and I spend ALOT of time on it) we currently have some of the slowest drivers we've ever had in my driving life... But as speed went down so did driving ability it seems, as now we have some of the worst drivers we ever had (again my driving life)
How long has your driving life been?

I'm not so sure the % of shit drivers now is any worse than when I started (30 years ago) there's just more of them due to higher traffic volume and easy finance

So yes they've slowed people down, but to the detriment of safety & driving ability, is that really a win???
I'm not so sure that's provable

Remember when we had an 80kmh speed limit? the driving was just as shit then as it is now with a 100kph limit

slowpoke

18th August 2011, 22:52

Unlike some who see a flash of blue and the hackles go up, I can't say the pohlees are doing too bad a job. They've got a job to do and as in any occupation you'll get all sorts doing it: good bad and indifferent. Look around at your place of work you'll see exactly the same, so why do some people expect the police to be any different?That's life, get used to it.

Ultimately the responsibility lies with the individual, which is what I am. I'm not part of some motorcycling collective and don't wish to be. I'm not a rabid car/cop/society hating outcast with something to prove. I'm a bloke with my own priorities, own reasons for riding, own abilities, own decision making abilities, own flaws etc etc and just happen to ride a motorcycle. I'm an individual that pretty much avoids other motorcyclists on the road unless I know them personally.

So as far as the police "engaging with motorcyclists".....I dunno. I'd hate to be lumped in with many of the other people posting on here....but for people looking in from the outside that's almost impossible.

My 2c says the best chance of altering peoples mindset is when they're starting out. It's pretty hard to change someone once they've been riding for a few years and all too often the only way they'll learn or change is through something catastrophic. Catch them at the rider training stage (which needs to be far more vigorous) 'cos that's when they're soaking up all the info/attitudes and are happy to acknowledge they don't know it all.

slowpoke

18th August 2011, 23:04

How long has your driving life been?

I'm not so sure the % of shit drivers now is any worse than when I started (30 years ago) there's just more of them due to higher traffic volume and easy finance

I'm not so sure that's provable

Remember when we had an 80kmh speed limit? the driving was just as shit then as it is now with a 100kph limit

On the money Kick.

Higher traffic volumes, much faster cars for our pissed up youngsters (not many of my learner's Hillman Hunter around, haha), all travelling at a 25% higher speed....and still the road toll/per capita is dropping.

People have short memories, or no memory at all.

Berries

18th August 2011, 23:12

I'm not part of some motorcycling collective and don't wish to be. I'm not a rabid car/cop/society hating outcast with something to prove. I'm a bloke with my own priorities, own reasons for riding, own abilities, own decision making abilities, own flaws etc etc and just happen to ride a motorcycle. I'm an individual that pretty much avoids other motorcyclists on the road unless I know them personally.
Well put.

What works best for me is if I am minding my own business, how 'bout you mind yours.

Stopping me for a 'chat' about anything other than an infringement will be met with contempt.
Even better well put(?). I am not going to listen to advice from someone who doesn't ride, or someone in their 20's or anyone with anything to do with ACC.

I would suggest concentrating on ticketing those who are breaking the law - perhaps even targeting some of the crash promoting offences, and if you want to make a real difference to motorcycle safety take your experience and move on.

May the force not be with you, so to speak.

Flip

18th August 2011, 23:40

I participated in plenty of the Honda Rider Training courses back home in West Aussie and the Police were not only in attendance but they actively taught the participants.......

I can't imagine anything worse, going on a training course and finding it full of Honda riders, Rrozzas and Auzzies, its enough to put me off riding.:killingme

Metastable

19th August 2011, 06:39

Well in California they do something really cool, you could do something similar. There they have police officers that do trackdays and race and even offer instruction out on the track.

You could do something similar to California like:

Give the culprit an option
1 - ticket
2 - doing a trackday nearby.... for this they will be obligated to have proper gear and a bike that is prepped properly.... plus they will get to experience the track and be coached. Therefore the goal is to make them wear proper gear, have a good running motorcycle and teach them valuable riding skills which will make the roads a safer place for all. Plus hopefully they will end up doing the crazy speeds at the track instead of the road. I think the rider is on the hook for the cost of the trackday, but that is usually cheaper than the ticket anyway.

george formby

19th August 2011, 09:08

I would read into it: Use your discretion.

and a liberal sprinkling of common sense in the application of duty.

Scuba_Steve

19th August 2011, 09:23

How long has your driving life been?

I'm not so sure the % of shit drivers now is any worse than when I started (30 years ago) there's just more of them due to higher traffic volume and easy finance

less than yours but have spent almost all of it on-road

I'm not so sure that's provable

Remember when we had an 80kmh speed limit? the driving was just as shit then as it is now with a 100kph limit
nope not really provable but there is a reason they don't base their success on accidents or per km travelled basis (hint it doesn't look as good when you do)
I wasn't round for the 80km/h maybee the impression of worse drivers is because of the higher concentrations? but I'm bloody sure people have just got worse, & how they're being taught by the "officials" would also suggest this, people should be appalled at what the young'ins are being taught now

Taz

19th August 2011, 09:46

But as speed went down so did driving ability it seems, as now we have some of the worst drivers we ever had (again my driving life)

So yes they've slowed people down, but to the detriment of safety & driving ability, is that really a win???

It's simple really. The message is that at or under the magical speed limit you are not at any risk of having an accident so therefore because you now drive at 95 as opposed to 105-115 you don't need to pay as much attention to your driving or be constantly scanning for danger/popos. People only die when you speed. It says so on the signs and propaganda.

wysper

19th August 2011, 11:33

an invitation to attend Police training or training where the Police participate in the training course and are viewed by others as fellow riders.. I participated in plenty of the Honda Rider Training courses back home in West Aussie and the Police were not only in attendance but they actively taught the participants through some aspects of the course.. though I know the West Aussie Police have a pretty full on driver training program in place whereas I have no idea the competence of the NZ Police rider training program..
BUT
the active participation of the Police is a two-way gate in that it shows the Police which riders want to better themselves, who needs what sort of training and that we realise we know we benefit from training.. it also shows our fellow motorcyclists that the Police (riders) are people who ride, who understand what motorcycling is about and who also benefit from training.. they need to engage with motorcyclists as much as we need to engage with them.. it builds kudos both ways which can only benefit everyone

I like this idea, I would participate in that.

At best this forces frustration, it also forces us to stay in road trains that are dangerous and get more so as all the drivers' tempers rise the longer it goes on, instead of simply zapping past into the safety of a less densely trafficked section of road. This is very significant to motorcyclists who are both more at risk in a road train and more easily able to zap out of it. A

This is interesting, I read this sort of thing alot. How is it more dangerous? How many riders get nailed in a line of traffic as opposed to out on their own on the road?

I imagine the answer will be that you have several vehicles driven by people that don't pay any attention and are trying to kill you makes it unsafe. But I suspect that if you are in the line of traffic the guy in front of you knows you are there, the guy behind you does too, the guy looking to pull out from a side road sees a whole line of traffic and waits, rather than misses seeing a lone biker and pulls out in front of them.

I understand that it is more enjoyable on your own rather than in a line of traffic and that probably feels safer, less things threatening you or in you space.

I am not going to listen to advice from someone who doesn't ride, or someone in their 20's or anyone with anything to do with ACC.

Generally speaking I would agree with you, but once you close your mind you stop learning. Sometimes gems of wisdom can come from the most unexpected sources. And utter crap can come from so called experts.

James Deuce

19th August 2011, 11:42

I'd like to know what the fuck it is I'm supposed to have done? You seem to be assuming that we're all guilty of something and "need" to talk to the Police.

How about we both just do what is expected of us and leave the training and engagement of road users to people who are skilled enough to use indicators on roandabouts.

James Deuce

19th August 2011, 12:00

Yes, and given that drivers are as bad as we all bang on about, isn't it a good thing all the bad drivers have slowed down?

http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/road-deaths/toll.html

I'd call THAT a win. I'd be okay with lots more people being killed on the roads, as long as I could nominate who they were.............

Oh so tempting to relate the lower road toll to the changes in enforcement BUT I know we are just a part of the equation. Better cars, better engineering, higher petrol costs, updated legislation. These things all play a part. But so does our enforcement.

Okay, bring on the derision.

But why, really, do we bang on about how we have the worst drivers in the world, then bitch when we try to slow these people down so that when they crash (as is inevitable, given that the OP (other people) are such crap drivers)? Huh? Maybe we just let those really crap drivers (other people, obviously not us), drive and crash as fast as they want.

Harumph.

The reality is that the velocity of the other vehicle is often irrelevant to a motorcyclist. Speed isn't the issue in a motorcycle vs. other vehicle incident, or motorcycle vs. road-side furniture incident.

Teaching people to actively scan for motorcyclists and teaching motorcyclists not to put themselves where they can get hurt would work much better - for motorcyclists.

A 150 km/hr combined speed head-on is much more survivable car vs. car than a 200 km/hr combine speed. It would make no difference to a motorcyclist except for not spreading the bits as far.

rastuscat

19th August 2011, 15:56

The bad drivers came with the slower speeds. Speed has been inforced to the detriment of safety.

Cool, I get it now.

The faster people go, the safer they are. Isn't that what you're saying?

Doh !!

scumdog

19th August 2011, 15:59

[QUOTE=Kickaha;1130132991
Remember when we had an 80kmh speed limit? the driving was just as shit then as it is now with a 100kph limit[/QUOTE]

And oh how people conveniently forget that - or mainly are too young...

And we only had about 67% the number of cars on the road back then too.

Scuba_Steve

19th August 2011, 16:01

Cool, I get it now.

The faster people go, the safer they are. Isn't that what you're saying?

Doh !!

nope, that's no better than saying the slower people go, the safer they are.

scumdog

19th August 2011, 16:04

Well put.

Even better well put(?). I am not going to listen to advice from someone who doesn't ride, or someone in their 20's or anyone with anything to do with ACC.

Good logic - so I hope if you ever get busted with a joint on you that you emphasise you DON'T want a 20-something lawyer who has never smoked a joint and who also does some work for ACC...:rolleyes::whistle:

scumdog

19th August 2011, 16:05

nope, that's no better than saying the slower people go, the safer they are.

So....lemme see...that means the faster you go the safer you are? right? :confused:

slofox

19th August 2011, 16:06

And oh how people conveniently forget that - or mainly are too young...

And we only had about 67% the number of cars on the road back then too.

Good point. We have a higher speed limit now, have many more cars on the road and our death toll is lower...

Just remember though, temporal contiguity does not, of necessity, imply causality...:whistle:

Scuba_Steve

19th August 2011, 16:09

So....lemme see...that means the faster you go the safer you are? right? :confused:

nope the more attention paid to the road & less paid to a needle on a dial or lcd number, the safer you are when travelling at a speed for the conditions.

scumdog

19th August 2011, 16:14

scumdog

19th August 2011, 16:16

nope the more attention paid to the road & less paid to a needle on a dial or lcd number, the safer you are when travelling at a speed for the conditions.

IF you've got to THAT much attention to the needle/lcd no. you shouldn't be on the road - I know I can jump from a '55 hot-rod to a work car and onto my bike(s) or other vehicles and still only need a passing glance now and then at the speedo.

You don't need to hypnotise the speedo ya know...

Scuba_Steve

19th August 2011, 16:22

IF you've got to THAT much attention to the needle/lcd no. you shouldn't be on the road - I know I can jump from a '55 hot-rod to a work car and onto my bike(s) or other vehicles and still only need a passing glance now and then at the speedo.

You don't need to hypnotise the speedo ya know...

you do know how people are being taught to drive don't you???

and a glace at the wrong time could mean a death at the wrong time. I'll stick to watching the road & travelling at safe speeds

Berries

19th August 2011, 16:26

Good logic - so I hope if you ever get busted with a joint on you that you emphasise you DON'T want a 20-something lawyer who has never smoked a joint and who also does some work for ACC...:rolleyes::whistle:
I would take whatever help I can get on that one. Your logic fails though, I know quite a few lawyers and I think it would be hard to find one that had never smoked a joint.

If I was a lawyer with 20 years experience and a good record I would take umbrage at being given advice by a 20-something lawyer or tips on how to tie my shoelaces unless either was his specialist field. Unfortunately motorbike riding is not a specialist field for most cops so they might as well just concentrate on upholding the law and leave those who are abiding by it alone.

Taz

19th August 2011, 16:27

At least the popo's can teach us how to do U-turns safely Eh?

rastuscat

19th August 2011, 16:36

At least the popo's can teach us how to do U-turns safely Eh?

Oooooooooo. Got us there.

Thing is, most Popos haven't made U-turns that went so bad. Not that the facts matter when a good Bag-Da-Popo is in the offing.

Still, nice come back.

Maha

19th August 2011, 16:44

Such a predictable 'opinion' poll result.....as per usual.

ps: I dont vote.:no:

Deano

19th August 2011, 16:47

The Popo in this area have taken to both approaches with TRTNR.

We have been visited by them at the start place meeting point and given a little pep talk. (Rider's briefing as Drew called it)

All very amicable I thought. Then they checked licences, WOF's and tyres and several people got a warning. They could have got worse - the cops were pretty good about it IMO.

We have also been visited 'mid ride' at various locations due to *555 calls. Like any group of individuals, there are a few that let the rest down with their riding and we've been told to weed them out (bad eggs - I'm talking about you Alan !!)

I heard that TCWNR have also had some visits.

It will be interesting to see the approach taken when daylight savings starts, if there is a need for any. :confused:

rphenix

19th August 2011, 17:01

Yes, and given that drivers are as bad as we all bang on about, isn't it a good thing all the bad drivers have slowed down?

Not sure about that, lately drivers seem to be driving more and more like nobody is home. Particularly around Auckland of late I'm noticing slow, red light runners coming through very very late last couple of months I've seen some real shockers really need to get a bike camera.

Toaster

19th August 2011, 17:59

So, what would work best for you? Enforcement? Engagement?

Where is the "wave as biker passes by" option?

Taz

20th August 2011, 07:47

Thing is, most Popos haven't made U-turns that went so bad. .

As scumdog would say "yet"

rastuscat

20th August 2011, 07:54

As scumdog would say "yet"

Right.

Like most bikers haven't low sided on a corner. Yet.

Like most haven't cut a corner and hit a car they didn't see head-on. Yet.

Cool. Lets axe everyone for the things they haven't done. Yet.

Venting :angry:

Berries

20th August 2011, 08:00

Cool. Lets axe everyone for the things they haven't done. Yet.
And lets start with the bikers by pulling them over for a chat when they have done nothing wrong. Yet.

Isn't that what this thread is about? You can't have it both ways.

Perhaps there should be a third option in your poll. Introduce a bit more discretion. Yes, we have heard the horror stories of people being warned, given a talking to and let off before wrapping themselves around a tree 10km down the road - let Darwin sort those ones out. A lot of respect has been lost by zero tolerance for some offences. This has to be weighed against the true risk of whatever the offence was and the conditions in where it happened. And I mean the true risk, not some blanket formula that takes no account of the massive variance in the NZ road environment or driving and vehicle standards. Get that respect back and it will flow in to other areas of Police work, as well as road safety, and reduce the 'them and us' mentality that is prevalent in road policing.

Ocean1

20th August 2011, 09:13

Right.

Like most bikers haven't low sided on a corner. Yet.

I'm pickin' you'd say the ones that ride to the conditions and actively avoid high risk situations are going to last a bit longer?

The ones, perhaps likely to transgress onto the verboten side to avoid a pretty rainbow puddle rather than adhere to the ministry's admonitions regarding such shocking behavior?

Them ones?

Scuba_Steve

20th August 2011, 09:32

Here we go if you want to do target attacks, target -
People movers - slow & dangerous
Holdens (this includes your own gang members) - They're dangerous at both ends of the scale as the saying goes "people who drive Holdens, can't"
Merc's - slow, dangerous & inattentive (or it just they think their superior to the rest so just ignore them?)

Dodgy_Matt

20th August 2011, 09:37

Here we go if you want to do target attacks, target -
People movers - slow & dangerous
Fords (this includes gang members) - They're dangerous at both ends of the scale as the saying goes "people who drive Fords, can't"
Merc's - slow, dangerous & inattentive (or it just they think their superior to the rest so just ignore them?)

Fixed that for ya....

Scuba_Steve

20th August 2011, 09:43

Fixed that for ya....

oh god your not a Holden driver are you :facepalm:

FYI I'm not a Ford fan I don't like them anymore than I like Holdens just they don't attract people that can't drive

Dodgy_Matt

20th August 2011, 09:48

oh god your not a Holden driver are you :facepalm:

FYI I'm not a Ford fan I don't like them anymore than I like Holdens just they don't attract people that can't drive

Every car out there attracts people that cant drive... no matter what make...
It's the people not the car sorry dude....

I have had prolly every make and model of car pull out on me, try to run me off the road...
Actually come to think of it, I would say SUV's are the worst....

rastuscat

20th August 2011, 09:49

Perhaps there should be a third option in your poll. Introduce a bit more discretion. ...........................Get that respect back and it will flow in to other areas of Police work, as well as road safety, and reduce the 'them and us' mentality that is prevalent in road policing.

Oddly, I couldn't agree more.

Thing is, the day of the old road policing officer has almost passed. Back in the day we would stop you, tell you to pull your horns in, kick your butt and send you on your way. Certainly we could still do that now, and some of us do. We also write tickets when we deem appropriate.

But many working have been introduced to road policing in the era of iPhones, instant everything (including noodles), stats stats stats, scientific analysis of trends, justification, audit trails arse covering. Generations X (early X-er myself) and Y have spawned a different breed of traffic cop, many of whom have never been taught or learned the art of road craft.

Funny, I've recently moved to a workgroup where we generate tickets on a PDA, and bluetooth them to a thermal printer before handing them over. Bizarre. Man, has my world changed. I used to go out on my R80RT with a ticket book and a breath tester. I even had room in my panniers for a sandwich and a pie. Now look at the range of things I have to carry around on my stab resistant vest. Nowhere to put the donuts these days.

I started this thread to see if engagement might be accepted. I didn't suggest that I'd stand on a soapbox at the roadside and force anyone to listen to a lecture from someone who had no idea what they were talking about, simply because the rider was on a bike. But that appears to be what folk think I was asking about.

Suggestions welcome.

Dodgy_Matt

20th August 2011, 09:51

What would work for you from the Popos?
BAN SUV's from our roads.... :shifty:

grantnz

20th August 2011, 09:52

Berries

20th August 2011, 09:55

Generations X (early X-er myself) and Y have spawned a different breed of traffic cop, many of whom have never been taught or learned the art of road craft.
Sadly that is why the whole concept of engagement isn't going to work. Your guys need to be experts in driving and road safety to have that authority. A uniform alone is not going to work.

Scuba_Steve

20th August 2011, 09:58

Every car out there attracts people that cant drive... no matter what make...
It's the people not the car sorry dude....

I have had prolly every make and model of car pull out on me, try to run me off the road...
Actually come to think of it, I would say SUV's are the worst....

They do but these are the vehicles with higher concentration of people who cant drive vs car type, Holdens & people movers are almost a 1-1 concentration. So if PIGs are going to target, these should be whats targeted. Admittedly the PIGs shouldn't target but the people running the show have no fucking idea about what their doing (like any big business) & thus targeting will continue

and SUV's if you actually take a look are probably no worse than the average car driver I've found, it's just their big so we tend to notice more. I have found people movers to be much worse

rastuscat

20th August 2011, 10:03

BAN SUV's from our roads.... :shifty:

Good, yes, practical idea. Thanks.

Kickaha

20th August 2011, 10:03

and SUV's if you actually take a look are probably no worse than the average car driver I've found,

SUV used to be over represented in single vehicle roll overs because of people treating them like a cars

I find quite a few of them driven by boat towing cunts who aren't interested in moving over for traffic behind them

Scuba_Steve

20th August 2011, 10:07

SUV used to be over represented in single vehicle roll overs because of people treating them like a cars

I find quite a few of them driven by boat towing cunts who aren't interested in moving over for traffic behind them

ah like the horse float wankers :yes: just with them a toot usually gets them out the way, seems the trailor becomes unstable when the horse starts jumping round :shifty::laugh:

P.S. not recommended to try, tho usually works & does teach them a lesson, it is somewhat dangerous

scumdog

20th August 2011, 11:57

and SUV's if you actually take a look are probably no worse than the average car driver I've found, it's just their big so we tend to notice more. I have found people movers to be much worse

Big
Slow - worse when towing
Poor visibility
Headlights set too high
Soft rear suspension makes headlights even higher.
Buggers to park

Never owned one, wouldn't have one as a wart on me arse, they have their place but a shitload of those driving of them have no REAL need for them, a car would cover their needs more efficiently..

My rant on them over.

nosebleed

20th August 2011, 12:07

BAN POPO's from our roads.... :shifty:

Fixed that for ya.

scumdog

20th August 2011, 12:12

Perhaps there should be a third option in your poll. Introduce a bit more discretion.

MORE discretion?
I use shit-loads - (last ticket I wrote out was ohhhh about two or more weeks ago) but you never hear of THEM on a KB rant thread.

All you hear is whining "but I'm not unsafe", "not fair", "pick on the real trouble-makers" "you only stop bikers" cry-babies strumming on about an unfair ticket they got in 1987 or how hard done by they would be if they ever got stopped when in their opinion they were doing nothing wrong, cry me a river....HTFU

BTW: How often do some of you whinging types actually get stopped?

I added up the number of times I've ben stopped in the last 30years and apart from the booze-bus set ups where you have to line up and 'say your name into this sir' operations it's been a total of five.

And got a ticket from one of those stops - in 1987.

And no, I don't have an invisible sign that says "I'm one of you" - and I've only been in the job 15 years anyway.

So some of you guys must just be plain unlucky - or tempt fate - or something if you get pulled over heaps.

Kickaha

20th August 2011, 12:18

BTW: How often do some of you whinging types actually get stopped?

I'm not a whinging type :finger: but it's only been 5 times in 35 years, although 4 of those 5 stops resulted in tickets for a total of about $500 in fines

Filthy dirty donut munching revenue raisers:Police: why don't they go and pick on the real criminals blah blah blah

george formby

20th August 2011, 12:19

MORE discretion?
I use shit-loads - (last ticket I wrote out was ohhhh about two or more weeks ago) but you never hear of THEM on a KB rant thread.

All you hear is whining "but I'm not unsafe", "not fair", "pick on the real trouble-makers" "you only stop bikers" cry-babies strumming on about an unfair ticket they got in 1987 or how hard done by they would be if they ever got stopped when in their opinion they were doing nothing wrong, cry me a river....HTFU

BTW: How often do some of you whinging types actually get stopped?

I added up the number of times I've ben stopped in the last 30years and apart from the booze-bus set ups where you have to line up and 'say your name into this sir' operations it's been a total of five.

And got a ticket from one of those stops - in 1987.

And no, I don't have an invisible sign that says "I'm one of you" - and I've only been in the job 15 years anyway.

So some of you guys must just be plain unlucky - or tempt fate - or something if you get pulled over heaps.

Ha, i posted something similar to this when the thread started but missed the submit button. Fair call.

Get some money off the powers that be, get a "motorcycle awareness" road show on the go & use bike events around the country to meet, greet & show off some skills.
I did a Met approved advanced riding course in the UK with the police & the skills & attitude taught was great. So where the wheelies on the BM's...:laugh:

FJRider

20th August 2011, 12:30

MORE discretion?

So some of you guys must just be plain unlucky - or tempt fate - or something if you get pulled over heaps.

I must be really lucky ... All the tickets I've recieved over the years were totally justified ... and some of those were written for speeds LESS than that what I was actually travelling ...

And for EACH time I was ticketed ... I would have been stopped and NOT issued a ticket about as many times. A stern warning/rant then ... told to go ... a bit slower ...

A few times even ... a flash of the red and blues ... a wag of the finger ... but NO pursuit ...

jellywrestler

20th August 2011, 12:31

The thing about speeding, is they use a machine to ping you and the results are very difficult to contest so it is a very profitable business.
When's the last time you actually heard of someone getting a careless or a dangerous driving charge; without being involved in an incident/accident???
People are out there everyday commiting plenty more offences than speeding but pulling them over is a hassle. Invariably they'll try and defend the charge so Mr Policeman has to spend his day in court and take whatever bullshit the alledged offender and his lawyer come up with even if it's an error in writing the correct details on the ticket.
This is an attack on the officers 'Tradesman like practices', integrity etc and no-one likes that.
They don't bother, they'll turn a blind eye and concentrate on the best value for money they can to earn their wages.
SIMPLE ANSWER
Fit all Police cars and bikes with cameras, then the video evidence can be shown in court and the police can spread their resources to general road offences problems not just speed.
The whole roads will be a safer place and you can see that sometimes you're the one driving like 'that'.

george formby

20th August 2011, 12:34

a wag of the finger ... but NO pursuit ...

+1, the maximum I have had for my indiscretions but it was a tap to the side of the head.:weird:

Jack Miller

20th August 2011, 12:40

ah like the horse float wankers :yes: just with them a toot usually gets them out the way, seems the trailor becomes unstable when the horse starts jumping round :shifty::laugh:

P.S. not recommended to try, tho usually works & does teach them a lesson, it is somewhat dangerous

I wonder how many get ticketed for carrying an unsecured load?

Jack Miller

20th August 2011, 12:43

MORE discretion?
I use shit-loads - (last ticket I wrote out was ohhhh about two or more weeks ago) but you never hear of THEM on a KB rant thread.

All you hear is whining "but I'm not unsafe", "not fair", "pick on the real trouble-makers" "you only stop bikers" cry-babies strumming on about an unfair ticket they got in 1987 or how hard done by they would be if they ever got stopped when in their opinion they were doing nothing wrong, cry me a river....HTFU

BTW: How often do some of you whinging types actually get stopped?

I added up the number of times I've ben stopped in the last 30years and apart from the booze-bus set ups where you have to line up and 'say your name into this sir' operations it's been a total of five.

And got a ticket from one of those stops - in 1987.

And no, I don't have an invisible sign that says "I'm one of you" - and I've only been in the job 15 years anyway.

So some of you guys must just be plain unlucky - or tempt fate - or something if you get pulled over heaps.

Once is enough. Just fuck off and leave us alone. Unless we're breaking the law of course, but every time I've been stopped I haven't been. Just get out of my life!

Kickaha

20th August 2011, 12:44

but every time I've been stopped I haven't been. Just get out of my life!

Yeah yeah, sure you haven't

Dodgy_Matt

20th August 2011, 12:52

SUV's if you actually take a look are probably no worse than the average car driver I've found, it's just their big so we tend to notice more. I have found people movers to be much worse

This morning, riding south through Pukerua Bay on SH1 I had a 4wd pull out of Teihana Road on me.

Sideswiped off the highway by a 4x4

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/139484-Weeny-willy-syndrome

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/130668-Thursday-misadventure.-How-to-win-a-week-in-hospital.

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/134593-Why-bikers-hate-cage-drivers

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/140920-Collected-some-revenue-today

:laugh: :laugh:

Dodgy_Matt

20th August 2011, 14:13

SIMPLE ANSWER
Fit all Police cars and bikes with cameras, then the video evidence can be shown in court and the police can spread their resources to general road offences problems not just speed.
The whole roads will be a safer place and you can see that sometimes you're the one driving like 'that'.

I really don’t know why they haven’t been fitted yet?
It would seem that all other popo's around the world use them and to their advantage.
It would seem a logical thing to do, wouldn’t it?

Berries

20th August 2011, 14:20

They are waiting for Victoria to do it first.

MORE discretion?
I use shit-loads - (last ticket I wrote out was ohhhh about two or more weeks ago) but you never hear of THEM on a KB rant thread.
Although the inbreeding down south means that six fingers makes for a good typist, I suspect that many of them don't own computers.

Dodgy_Matt

20th August 2011, 14:26

They are waiting for Victoria to do it first.
I spoze. But that is really backward thinking though..... :no:

Flip

20th August 2011, 14:51

With all respect to Scummy, I don't want anything to do with the rozza. The police don't make policy despite what that blue uniformed female snake says on the telly, the government does. The rozza are the enforcement arm of the legal system that's all. The Rozza are only funded to police the road code.

scumdog

20th August 2011, 15:15

They are waiting for Victoria to do it first.

Although the inbreeding down south means that six fingers makes for a good typist, I suspect that many of them don't own computers.

And you're NOT 'in the south'??:confused::laugh:

Time for you to face north buddy and notice how much more of this country is above you - and how little is actually 'south'.<_<

Berries

20th August 2011, 16:48

It's all relative. Oamaru is up north and Milton is down south. Balclutha is, well, C130 territory.

Ocean1

20th August 2011, 18:42

Generations X (early X-er myself) and Y have spawned a different breed of traffic cop, many of whom have never been taught or learned the art of road craft.

It's endemic in Aussie too. On an advanced driving course in Perth, driving a Commode fitted with castors on outriggers. On a LH curve the (police training) instructor applies pressure to the rig and we start to drift. A generous handful of right lock is applied.

"Don't do that" says the dude in blue. "Why not, how else am I supposed to compensate, regain control?" "We're not here for you to learn how to control a sliding car" says he. "What's the rig for then?" "It's to show you what happens when you speed around corners" says he. "You lose control and crash".

This was ADVANCED DRIVER training. The same course they use for their own staff.

If those who's purpose is to encourage, (or more likely punish the lack of) roadcraft aren't being taught it, (and to a high degree at that) then what is the basis for any authority they hope to wield? Statistically modelled, digitally displayed speed compliance audits? Don't think so.

And police bikes. Why have they all gone? I'da thought they had a place but it seems they've suffered the same PC fate as the excellent first response ambo bikes.

There's your suggestion: Bring back the patrol bikes. Bring back the expertise in using them that used to command genuine respect from the public, two wheeled or more.

Pseudonym

26th August 2011, 02:00

So the original question put to us by the OP was, as cross section of the motorcycling public how would we respond to having the police stopping us for an informal chat about safety?

Badly, would be my first response to this.
I managed to avoid the ACC/Police “we’re from the government and here to help” summer side project where they stopped us to make sure we had registration as that is the No1 leading cause in bike accidents, and a current WoF.
If we did pass I was told we where awarded with a nice yellow vest.
A nice gift that they brought for us with our money, but if I was going to dress like one of the village people it wouldn’t be the construction worker.

The motorcycle safety campaign so far is;
A. making us too broke to be able to afford fuel,
B. flagging us down when we do have the fuel for a ride for a little condescending chat,
C. some “look for bikes” billboards and
D. to make it law that the light is on when we are riding
As most bikes don’t have a headlight switch, most car drivers don’t look out of the windows, and most of those who where stopped nodded, smiled and totally ignored what they where being told, it was mostly a ticketing exercise with an excuse.

I would struggle to take riding advice from someone I had never ridden with, and to interrupt me on one of the very few days that I get to play on would most likely lead to me to disregard anything I was being told on principle alone.
To have some PR rep from the ACC telling me how to be safe would be fun though…

If anyone is serous about our safety then wire rope barriers, snail trail road repairs and putting un-surfaced metal plates over road works will be a thing of the past?
Or is this just stage one? And this summer the 4WD drivers will be pulled over to be told the purpose of line down the centre of the road?

Sorry OP but my cynicism has a reason for being there.

As for the speed vs. safety read this http://psyc.queensu.ca/target/

rastuscat

26th August 2011, 08:05

I really don’t know why they haven’t been fitted yet?

Dosh. Data storage. Technology is getting cheaper and more available, but to roll this out on a national platform is damn expensive.

It would seem that all other popo's around the world use them and to their advantage.

They mostly have lots of taxpayers, so greater resource bases. Obviously the only videos we see are those that are video recorded. Imagine how much stuff goes on that isn't videoed.

It would seem a logical thing to do, wouldn’t it?

Not necessarily. Imagine this. A Popo stands in a court and gives evidence about a particular offence, say, a car going through a red light. He shows the video, case closed. Guilty.

The next case is where a Popo has seen someone go through a red light, but his video camera was pointing forward, when he saw the red light offence through his side window i.e. no video of the offence.

The first Popo has raised the judicial expectation. He wants to see the video, or he may or may not believe the Popo.

This is a harsh reality. If you start gathering a new form of evidence, the judicial standard rises. When DNA was introduced, nobody believed anything if there wasn't DNA evidence.

It's almost related to the CSI effect. People see nose prints being lifted off a banana on CSI, then want the local Popos to lift nose prints off their banana.

It's easy to say video everything, but the practical application and judicial, evidential, and financial implications are quite wide. It would be very, very expensive to video everything, at a time when we struggle to pay for the things we do, let alone expand.

Cheap ideas are almost certainly more likely to fly. That's why I OP'd about possible engagement.

Donuts.

Dodgy_Matt

26th August 2011, 09:03

Dosh. Data storage. Technology is getting cheaper and more available, but to roll this out on a national platform is damn expensive.

Cheap ideas are almost certainly more likely to fly. That's why I OP'd about possible engagement.

Donuts.

This is why you c**ts need better funding and better pay ......

Scuba_Steve

26th August 2011, 09:19

Dosh. Data storage. Technology is getting cheaper and more available, but to roll this out on a national platform is damn expensive.

Cant be that expensive use the same system as the taxi's I'm pretty sure they said Wellington combined were kitting out their whole fleet of 500? for about a grand. Just stop writing-off or damaging the PIG/Copmobile's ...Tho I suspect thats the real reason we won't see them installed anytime soon "anyone who drives Holdens, can't!"

Parlane

26th August 2011, 10:00

http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/road-deaths/toll.html

I'd call THAT a win.
Harumph.

Woah, what surprises me is that with all the decreases in motorvehicle road tolls. There has been an increase in pedestrian and bicycle deaths?

Aren't bicycles and pedestrians normally found in low speed areas?

scumdog

26th August 2011, 10:04

Woah, what surprises me is that with all the decreases in motorvehicle road tolls. There has been an increase in pedestrian and bicycle deaths?

Aren't bicycles and pedestrians normally found in low speed areas?

But get hit by faster vehicles?:laugh:

But those figures must be rigged, EVERYBODY knows these road safety campaigns don't work....

Murray

26th August 2011, 12:55

What would work for me with the Popo would be to see them doing the job they have been employed to do!. Not to be travelling from Auckland to Hamilton and seeing up to 5 Popo lying in wait on open stretch 2 lane expressways and then when calling them at night due to a break in and burglary being told its low priority and someone may call around tomorrow.

Are the Popo crime control or traffic enforcement???

scumdog

26th August 2011, 13:00

Are the Popo crime control or traffic enforcement???

Here's a surpise: Both!

Only nowadays the traffic guys don't drive black'n'white cars.

Dodgy_Matt

26th August 2011, 13:11

Here's a surpise: Both!

Only nowadays the traffic guys don't drive black'n'white cars.

Susssh, dont tell Scuba_Steve they drive holdens :shifty:

rastuscat

26th August 2011, 19:26

What would work for me with the Popo would be to see them doing the job they have been employed to do!.......................Are the Popo crime control or traffic enforcement???

Funny. When we all join it's for the same purpose. Get paid to protect people and property.

But what does that actually mean? After you join da Popos you realize how many things are actually involved in that. Some want to be a search and rescue member. Some want to be a Popo negotiator. Some want to be a Popo dispatcher. Some want to attend crimes with little chance of catching a crook and mindlessly fill out paperwork for the benefit of who knows who. Some want to be firearms officers, others maritime officers. Some want to be an education officer, convincing munchkins that maybe weed isn't a career choice.

Some join road policing, as the Popos are contracted by the government to deliver hundreds of thousands of hours each year of road enforcement. The personal choice might depend on the roster, the smaller amount of paperwork, the lower chance of attending mindless tasks that other sections have to.

Kindly accept that you have little knowledge of what the Popos do before suggesting they should all be attending to your personal preference.

So there.

scumdog

26th August 2011, 19:29

Kindly accept that you have little knowledge of what the Popos do before suggesting they should all be attending to your personal preference.

So there.

Fuck-off rastuscat, that's not the way ranters on here want it....this IS the 21st century mafter all and it's me-me-me all the way!

Scuba_Steve

26th August 2011, 19:36

Fuck-off rastuscat, that's not the way ranters on here want it....this IS the 21st century mafter all and it's me-me-me all the way!

pfft well theres ya 1st problem, did your mum never tell you "the world doesn't revolve around you"??? It revolves around ME! & it's Me, Me, Me!!! not you, you, you. :no:stupid scummy :laugh:

oneofsix

26th August 2011, 19:37

Fuck-off rastuscat, that's not the way ranters on here want it....this IS the 21st century mafter all and it's me-me-me all the way!

umm so that's where scumdog is coming from, self centre little ..., whereas one could believe rustus wants to be helpful :laugh:

I should have left it alone but it was too hard to resist

Kickaha

26th August 2011, 19:38

Kindly accept that you have little knowledge of what the Popos do

Scummy told me he only joined for the donuts:Police:

rastuscat

26th August 2011, 19:48

Scummy told me he only joined for the donuts:Police:

I joined for the donuts too, so eat me :stupid:

Jack Miller

27th August 2011, 14:19

The reader poll needs a third option: "Just leave us alone"

Kickaha

27th August 2011, 14:49

The reader poll needs a third option: "Just leave us alone"

I've actually found it remarkably easy to get them to do that

Drew

27th August 2011, 15:13

Haven't read all the responses, as the few that I did read made me forget the original question.

What should be done to increase rider safety? Umm, actually teaching people to ride, as a requirement for getting a licence!

Basic handling test is a joke, and so are the people training riders to pass it.

After riding for 17 years, I recently sat my restricted licence test. Another fuckin joke. There is no way I proved I had the ability to ride a motorcycle on the roads in ten minutes riding around Lower Hutt suburbia.

Stiffer penalties? More of us will just realise a middle weight (and up) bike will smoke a cop car, and do runners. That is the opposite of safer.

Places like this mentoring riders? Mentoring what, typing?

I really struggle to think who should do the training, or even write the standards for a passing mark after it. But I have full confidence that the current retards in the rider safety/acc group, or someone like them would end up with the job, making it a waste of time like what they are doing now.

Pessimistic of me you think? Fuckin oath it is! Someone will probably say that it's easy to pick holes in something, and they are right I guess. But riddle me this, something so easily torn down, should it be put up in the first place?

Drew

27th August 2011, 15:14

I've actually found it remarkably easy to get them to do that

It's easy to avoid police attention when you're a hundred years old and get overtaken by grannies out for their weekly shop.

Jack Miller

28th August 2011, 00:06

It's easy to avoid police attention when you're a hundred years old and get overtaken by grannies out for their weekly shop.
Check rastuscat's other recent post. He'll give you a ticket if you're holding up traffic.

Jack Miller

28th August 2011, 00:09

I've actually found it remarkably easy to get them to do that
Yeah but rastuscat isn't willing to settle for that. He wants to either hunt you down and ticket you, or hunt you down and get engaged to you. Non-molestation isn't an option in the poll.

Kickaha

28th August 2011, 09:49

Scuba_Steve

28th August 2011, 10:49

I've actually found it remarkably easy to get them to do that

you've never been a "young driver" with a motor vehicle then have you??? or at-least not since the traffic & cops joint forces to increase police presence & fight real crime scam people.

scumdog

29th August 2011, 16:45

Yeah but rastuscat isn't willing to settle for that. He wants to either hunt you down and ticket you, or hunt you down and get engaged to you. Non-molestation isn't an option in the poll.

Sheesh, I don't know how I managed all these years...maybe I was always travelling at just the right speed all the time or something???:confused:

Or didn't emit the 'stop me' aura??:innocent:

rastuscat

29th August 2011, 18:50

Sheesh, I don't know how I managed all these years...maybe I was always travelling at just the right speed all the time or something???:confused:

Or didn't emit the 'stop me' aura??:innocent:

Yeah, funny thing that. I ride bikes both at work and personally. I've never been stopped while riding my personal bike. Perhaps it coz I don't ride like a dick.

But if I ever get stopped it'll be someone else's fault. I used to love blaming Helen Clark, and it's just too easy to blame Phil Goff. I'll probably do what everyone else does, blames it on revenue collecting, quotas, corruption, blah, blah, blah.

:Police:

huff3r

29th August 2011, 18:58

I think you better get a bigger tinfoil hat

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Kickaha again. :laugh:

I dont get whats so hard about following rules... you end up so much richer if you do :D.

Pseudonym

29th August 2011, 19:00

Sheesh, I don't know how I managed all these years...maybe I was always travelling at just the right speed all the time or something???:confused:

Or didn't emit the 'stop me' aura??:innocent:

So you haven’t been stopped in many years because you where behaving yourself?
So if you to be pulled over to have your bike checked over and lectured on how dangerous it is out on the road you would still be Okay with that?
Or would you be a little bit miffed as they are pulling you over because you ride just to tell you to be safe as people drive past talking on cell phones, playing with GPS units and being deathly scared of using indicators and mirrors?

Here is the scenario, Saturday morning and it’s a mint day as you slip through the cool air with your bike purring away under you.
Off for a coffee in the back of beyond and catch up with some mates.
You round a corner and get waved to the side by a cop who asks to see your licence, Reg/WoF and then gives your bike the once over.
While this is eating into your day some other nameless face tells you to look for cars and other tidbits you have known since you rode a pushy to school.

Now, how’s your mood?

It’s not being stopped for speeding that the concern stems from, it’s being stopped just for shits and giggles that most of us don’t want.

Kickaha

29th August 2011, 19:09

It’s not being stopped for speeding that the concern stems from, it’s being stopped just for shits and giggles that most of us don’t want.

In 32 years of riding/driving I have yet to have that happen

rastuscat

29th August 2011, 19:12

Here is the scenario, Saturday morning and it’s a mint day as you slip through the cool air with your bike purring away under you.
Off for a coffee in the back of beyond and catch up with some mates.
You round a corner and get waved to the side by a cop who asks to see your licence, Reg/WoF and then gives your bike the once over.
While this is eating into your day some other nameless face tells you to look for cars and other tidbits you have known since you rode a pushy to school.

If that's the worst thing that ever happens to you on a bike, you're a lucky man. Or woman. Or other.

Pseudonym

29th August 2011, 19:36

huff3r

29th August 2011, 19:47

Just a scenario, it’s being pulled over JUST because we’re on bikes that concerns me.
I haven’t had it happen, but I would prefer too keep it that way.
Wasn’t the point to this thread to ascertain whether we would be happy about being stopped for a “safety” chat or not?
A continuation on a previous scheme by ACC and the police?
Or am I in the wrong thread or have missed the point?

If I have missed the point you have my apologies and I’ll go lurk in another thread.

I think you have missed the point. I think the idea was to have police interacting with the public (willingly, and voluntarily) to talk about road safety issues and adress concerns etc. Not them pulling you over meaninglessly to have a chat..

i.e It'd be an event or something that you could go along to, no doubt with free donuts involved too. Maybe even the tyre-shredding kind if it were in the right location :bleh:

Pseudonym

29th August 2011, 19:54

Oh I see…
That I’d go to.

Jack Miller

29th August 2011, 20:21

If that's the worst thing that ever happens to you on a bike, you're a lucky man. Or woman. Or other.

doesn't have to be the worst thing to be bad. Leave us alone (unless we're actually breaking the law and you can prove it)

rastuscat

29th August 2011, 20:39

rastuscat

29th August 2011, 20:41

Leave us alone (unless we're actually breaking the law and you can prove it)

Where's the fun in that?

Tee hee.......

scumdog

29th August 2011, 21:05

So you haven’t been stopped in many years because you where behaving yourself?
So if you to be pulled over to have your bike checked over and lectured on how dangerous it is out on the road you would still be Okay with that?
Or would you be a little bit miffed as they are pulling you over because you ride just to tell you to be safe as people drive past talking on cell phones, playing with GPS units and being deathly scared of using indicators and mirrors?

Here is the scenario, Saturday morning and it’s a mint day as you slip through the cool air with your bike purring away under you.
Off for a coffee in the back of beyond and catch up with some mates.
You round a corner and get waved to the side by a cop who asks to see your licence, Reg/WoF and then gives your bike the once over.
While this is eating into your day some other nameless face tells you to look for cars and other tidbits you have known since you rode a pushy to school.

Now, how’s your mood?

I'll gladly eat your tin-foil hat if the above ever happens to me ya know... <_<

Can all those that it HAS happened to please post about it on here?

rastuscat

29th August 2011, 21:18

I'll gladly eat your tin-foil hat if the above ever happens to me ya know... <_<

Can all those that it HAS happened to please post about it on here?

Yeah, happened to me. Got stopped by this really evil, revenue collecting, quota driven nazi biker tart..............

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT4NjiTmnqjhKClfmnabC1OO0yt0mjes QROhujAvgF99q5C0b1k7A

No, really, honest, it DID happen..............

She stopped me under the law for a chat about motorcycle safety. No REALLY !!

Then I woke up and took my hand off it............

Parlane

29th August 2011, 21:35

Yeah, happened to me. Got stopped by this really evil, revenue collecting, quota driven nazi biker tart..............

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT4NjiTmnqjhKClfmnabC1OO0yt0mjes QROhujAvgF99q5C0b1k7A

No, really, honest, it DID happen..............

She stopped me under the law for a chat about motorcycle safety. No REALLY !!

Then I woke up and took my hand off it............

Is that the Mrs Rastuscat ? :shifty:

rastuscat

29th August 2011, 21:41

Is that the Mrs Rastuscat ? :shifty:

DOH !! Rumbled........

Ssssshhhhhhhhh, Mrs Cat is watching..........

Jack Miller

29th August 2011, 21:41

Can all those that it HAS happened to please post about it on here?

Seriously? It'd be easier to get a list of those who haven't suffered a random stop / checkpoint.

rastuscat

29th August 2011, 21:44

Seriously? It'd be easier to get a list of those who haven't suffered a random stop / checkpoint.

I'll start.

Me.

scumdog

29th August 2011, 21:46

I'll start.

Me.

And me too!!

Parlane

29th August 2011, 21:50

And me too!!

Are we counting breath test stops? I have had plenty.

Brian d marge

29th August 2011, 23:21

sitting on the side of the road may not work ( Said "may" because IMHO it wont but , i could be wrong )

GOING to where the bike ARE , and WITHOUT the enforcement ie EDUCATION, you will receive a much better result.

Go to the big Rallies AS Motorcycle Police, and offer advice , like how to get off a ticket , or free bike checks , or advanced riding quizzes , with a prize of a beer if you pass ...( dont buy ranfurly or that other crap beer )

You will get a positive reaction

Sitting on the side of the road , gathering money for , something that clearly isnt dangerous is Revenue gathering and you reap what you sow

Stephen

11 years and 3 tickets , no accidents at this work place and always over the limit

Berries

30th August 2011, 07:27

Yeah, funny thing that. I ride bikes both at work and personally. I've never been stopped while riding my personal bike. Perhaps it coz I don't ride like a dick.

But if I ever get stopped it'll be someone else's fault. I used to love blaming Helen Clark, and it's just too easy to blame Phil Goff. I'll probably do what everyone else does, blames it on revenue collecting, quotas, corruption, blah, blah, blah.
Oh dear. You're the one suggesting on here that people be stopped who aren't riding like dicks so that they can be 'engaged' with. Can we blame you then?

rastuscat

30th August 2011, 07:51

Go to the big Rallies AS Motorcycle Police, and offer advice , like how to get off a ticket , or free bike checks , or advanced riding quizzes , with a prize of a beer if you pass ...( dont buy ranfurly or that other crap beer )

WOOOOOOOO HOOOOOOOOOOOOO. Finally, someone with something positive to say !!!!!

Brian, are you married? Wanna be?

I can work with that. Not the free beer thing, but most of the other stuff could work. We already have attended quite a few things as MC Popos down here, and I'll look at focussing on it.

I guess tho, that's it one thing being a competent motorcyclist, and another altogether being a public speaker, or an instructor, or a bike mechanic. We are a long way from being MC gurus. Unlike most on here (Tui ad)

Still, that's the sort of engagement that I was talking about in the OP. The chance to hear what riders think, and discuss ways to avoid getting your name on a TCR (traffic crash report).

One of the realities of that approach is that I'll get a steady stream of riders bitching about how hard done by they are. I'll be a focal point for all the awful u-turns we've ever done, all the covert stuff we do, that sort of thing. Still, I get enough of that on here.

I'm also happy enough to discuss how to avoid tickets, although I've posted it on here already heaps. Don't break the rules, you won't get the tickets.

How to get off a ticket, I can even answer that. Invent a time machine, wind the clock back 15 minutes from when you're talking to the Popo, and don't do whatever the ticket is for.

Happiness filled, inspired. Harumph.

Parlane

30th August 2011, 08:55

WOOOOOOOO HOOOOOOOOOOOOO. Finally, someone with something positive to say !!!!!

Brian, are you married? Wanna be?

I can work with that. Not the free beer thing, but most of the other stuff could work. We already have attended quite a few things as MC Popos down here, and I'll look at focussing on it.

I guess tho, that's it one thing being a competent motorcyclist, and another altogether being a public speaker, or an instructor, or a bike mechanic. We are a long way from being MC gurus. Unlike most on here (Tui ad)

Still, that's the sort of engagement that I was talking about in the OP. The chance to hear what riders think, and discuss ways to avoid getting your name on a TCR (traffic crash report).

One of the realities of that approach is that I'll get a steady stream of riders bitching about how hard done by they are. I'll be a focal point for all the awful u-turns we've ever done, all the covert stuff we do, that sort of thing. Still, I get enough of that on here.

I'm also happy enough to discuss how to avoid tickets, although I've posted it on here already heaps. Don't break the rules, you won't get the tickets.

How to get off a ticket, I can even answer that. Invent a time machine, wind the clock back 15 minutes from when you're talking to the Popo, and don't do whatever the ticket is for.

Happiness filled, inspired. Harumph.

So this morning I got to building the time machine, alas, I'm having great difficulty sourcing plutonium, some searches on Google turned up no legitimate results (this is some very expensive hand soap). I figured I can replace the need for it with a large enough electronic source, but there is no way I can make a capacitor large enough for the burst it would need. But that got me thinking, I think I could use a lightning rod and a perfectly timed exit strategy.

So after I got the flux capacitor built and the massive wire hanging off the ol' clock tower in Hornby, I am still at a loss as to how I can legally travel at 141.62 km/h. I did check, and there are no large clock towers near any race tracks.

I really don't want to risk a ticket for breaking the speed limit to try to undo an old speeding ticket. The irony may kill me.

So for now, time travel waits (irony/pun(maybe(sub-sub-bracket))!). Until the day when the speed limit is 150km through a town.

Jack Miller

30th August 2011, 09:09

I'm also happy enough to discuss how to avoid tickets, although I've posted it on here already heaps. Don't break the rules, you won't get the tickets.

It's not a guaranteed approach though. Perhaps you have never issued a ticket to someone who wasn't breaking the rules but your colleagues have. I've got the tickets and the acquittals to prove it.

Jack Miller

30th August 2011, 09:13

I guess tho, that's it one thing being a competent motorcyclist, and another altogether being a public speaker, or an instructor, or a bike mechanic. We are a long way from being MC gurus. Unlike most on here (Tui ad)

Still, that's the sort of engagement that I was talking about in the OP. The chance to hear what riders think, and discuss ways to avoid getting your name on a TCR (traffic crash report).

One of the realities of that approach is that I'll get a steady stream of riders bitching about how hard done by they are. I'll be a focal point for all the awful u-turns we've ever done, all the covert stuff we do, that sort of thing.

And that is half the reason why it will never work. If you want to get alongside motorcyclists and work with them to improve our safety you can't do it as a Popo because, rightly or wrongly, there's too much bad blood.

huff3r

30th August 2011, 09:42

And that is half the reason why it will never work. If you want to get alongside motorcyclists and work with them to improve our safety you can't do it as a Popo because, rightly or wrongly, there's too much bad blood.

Speak for yourself, I would welcome some positive interaction from the Police. I have great respect for them, after the awesome way they handled the ACC protest ride! Without their involvement it would've been a huge mess, and it was awesome to have the bike cops along with us for the ride.

rastuscat

30th August 2011, 09:53

So after I got the flux capacitor built and the massive wire hanging off the ol' clock tower in Hornby, I am still at a loss as to how I can legally travel at 141.62 km/h. I did check, and there are no large clock towers near any race tracks.

Unless you have a DeLorean stainless steel, gull wing sports car, a flux capacitor doesn't have the technical capacity to create a vortex.

Since Back To The Future was made, electronics have changed. Now you'll need an iFlux capacitor, and those cost heaps. Wait 12 months, and like all i-things, there will be three new versions, and the price will drop making your treasured iFlux capacitor an expensive paper weight.

Good luck with the clock tower. I suspect that the Coffee Culture wi-fi on the ground floor will invert your flux field anyway.

Donuts.:confused:

rastuscat

30th August 2011, 09:56

And that is half the reason why it will never work. If you want to get alongside motorcyclists and work with them to improve our safety you can't do it as a Popo because, rightly or wrongly, there's too much bad blood.

Just coz your mind closed with a clunk doesn't mean that everyone's has.

Thing is, we can't change the past, but we can change the future. Or maybe you'll disagree with that too.

Harumph.

rastuscat

30th August 2011, 10:43

Are we counting breath test stops? I have had plenty.

You can't really count breath test stops. Jacko wants to count the number of times you've been stopped on a bike just coz you're on a bike.

If we started counting every stop, you could hardly blame the Popos for the stops for obviously legitimate purposes i.e. someone driving/riding like a real dick.

Still, Jacko just likes bitching, so maybe I'm being too harsh.

Parlane

30th August 2011, 10:53

You can't really count breath test stops. Jacko wants to count the number of times you've been stopped on a bike just coz you're on a bike.

If we started counting every stop, you could hardly blame the Popos for the stops for obviously legitimate purposes i.e. someone driving/riding like a real dick.

Still, Jacko just likes bitching, so maybe I'm being too harsh.

I have known friends to be pulled over for "random checks" before though. These are cars though, not bikes. I assume the only reason I don't know bikers being pulled over is because I don't know enough bikers.

But my friends have definitely been pulled over in cars in Auckland for these random checks.. One of them was clearly racial stereotyping though, he had to go through a huge hassle of phoning up his auntie and getting her to explain that he really was allowed to use the car. He wasn't speeding, he wasn't driving dangerous etc. Wasn't going "suspiciously slow" either.

As a biker, I don't feel like I have been targeted though. It might be the bike I ride, it might be my ATGATT attitude, hell, it might be because I don't speed when I see a cop :shifty: (Oh, and luck ofcourse)

^ I haven't been riding long enough for this to actually mean much though. Ask me again in 20 years if I have been targeted and I will be able to give you a more definite answer.

Jack Miller

30th August 2011, 11:16

Just coz your mind closed with a clunk doesn't mean that everyone's has.

Thing is, we can't change the past, but we can change the future. Or maybe you'll disagree with that too.

Harumph.

As you yourself have said, the force has it's share of good and bad enforcers, just like every human community. Until you can guarantee that you have found a way of eliminating the bad, then bad enforcing will continue to be part of the force's future - and you can't change that.

Katman

30th August 2011, 11:18

They do but these are the vehicles with higher concentration of people who cant drive vs car type, Holdens & people movers are almost a 1-1 concentration. So if PIGs are going to target, these should be whats targeted. Admittedly the PIGs shouldn't target but the people running the show have no fucking idea about what their doing (like any big business) & thus targeting will continue

and SUV's if you actually take a look are probably no worse than the average car driver I've found, it's just their big so we tend to notice more. I have found people movers to be much worse

I have plenty of car drivers (including SUVs) failing to give way and pulling out in front of me - but I don't hit them.

How could that possibly be?

Parlane

30th August 2011, 11:23

I have plenty of car drivers (including SUVs) failing to give way and pulling out in front of me - but I don't hit them.

How could that possibly be?

I am pretty sure you are Jesus. <_<

Gearup

30th August 2011, 11:24

I have known friends to be pulled over for "random checks" before though. These are cars though, not bikes. I assume the only reason I don't know bikers being pulled over is because I don't know enough bikers.

But my friends have definitely been pulled over in cars in Auckland for these random checks.. One of them was clearly racial stereotyping though, he had to go through a huge hassle of phoning up his auntie and getting her to explain that he really was allowed to use the car. He wasn't speeding, he wasn't driving dangerous etc. Wasn't going "suspiciously slow" either.

As a biker, I don't feel like I have been targeted though. It might be the bike I ride, it might be my ATGATT attitude, hell, it might be because I don't speed when I see a cop :shifty: (Oh, and luck ofcourse)

^ I haven't been riding long enough for this to actually mean much though. Ask me again in 20 years if I have been targeted and I will be able to give you a more definite answer.

A sensible post for a change P.

buellbabe

30th August 2011, 12:33

Imagine the problems I'd have selling that to my boss.

I set up a stall at a roadside, and put up a sign saying 'voluntary stop and chat to a motorcycle Popo, but only if you want to'.

After a day of sitting and speaking to the 2 motorcyclists who can actually be arsed stopping, and watching the hundred or so others ride past, I'm guessing it'd be pretty hard to sell that to my boss. No matter how good the 2 interactions were, I'd have wasted a degree of time.
...........

OMG! So many comments i want to reply to but this one I just had to...Seriously, I WOULD stop...out of curiosity!
For the record I have been pulled up by a cop who admitted that I was doing nothing wrong and apologised cos all he wanted to do was gawk at the Buell cos he happens to really like them.
How could I be mad at that???

In answer to the original question, surely its a no-brainer? Engagement has gotta be better than enforcement.
OK so working out just how that 'engagement' happens might be a bit of a headache since there are so many negative attitudes out there.

Jeez if I am doing something stupid (and I do my best NOT to) and get nailed for it then boohoo I would suck it up, not bitch about police harassment.

When are people gonna start taking responsibility for their own actions, I am so sick of listening to/reading about people whinging about how unfair their speeding ticket was.

Crikey everytime I have been silly enough to speed on a road likely to be patrolled and have been caught I have made sure my helmet is off, licence out and a smile on my face before the cop is half out of his car. I firmly believe that my NON attitude is why the cop has always shown leniency and in some cases just given me a stern talking to and let me off completely.

So discretion???? There is HEAPS of it out there.

As far as bike cops being experienced or not? I was at Manfeild earlier this year doing an advanced rider trianing day and one of the instructers was a bike cop. Jeez this bloke could ride! He was on his cop bike and holy crap it was a huge unwieldy looking thing but he threw it around like it was a trail bike, awesome skills. Bloody nice guy who contributed a lot to the riding and discussions. Been riding for years and his entire family are riders...

Rastuscat, cheers for the thought provoking thread.

GrayWolf

4th September 2011, 17:48

If you ask a lot of police about a motorcycle safety campaign, they'll think you mean hard arsed ticket writing aimed at anything on 2 wheels.
Another tangent would be to actively engage with the motorcycle crowd, and do what it takes to draw their attention to the stuff they can do to make themselves safer.
Thing is, lots of bike riders would tell the Popo to sod off if they started to dish out advice.
So, what would work best for you? Enforcement? Engagement?
Comments?

Engagement works well if the Police Riders do know how to ride. I know Andrew Templeton has done training with them here, and it would be interesting to know how high the training is when compared to say the UK Police.
That in itself would make a good start, if when stopped for being a naughty boy, you know this guy really does know his onions. The UK police riders do get involved with rider training, and believe me from experience they KNOW how to ride bloody fast, and have huge awareness even at high speed. Again I think that would be a good proactive action by the Police... to be involved at grass root as well as advanced riding levels.
Enforcment?? Well if the Police are involved in engagement and a bike cop stops you for being a prat?? Cant be anything other than a 'fair cop' can it?

Pixie

8th September 2011, 11:46

Shouldn't be your job to find out what might work mate. It's your job to catch people breaking the law. Given your thought provoking posts on this very forum, it's obvious you're a forward thinking officer who possibly excercises a bit of discretion where you feel its warranted.

If you pull me up after witnessing my truely awesome 160kph stand-up wheelie down the motorway through traffic on a Saturday morning, I'll take my medicine.

If you're hiding in the bushes on a deserted stretch of the plains and ping me at 113kph, while I'll take the ticket on the chin (I was speeding after all) but I'd have more respect for the officer if he offered a "Jimmy, you know the speed limit, I'm waggling my finger at you and teling you to be more aware of where we are probably hiding to catch some dangerous cunts"

Those are my thoughts.

Or he could ignore his drive to achieve quota,disregard the irrelevant 13 km excessive speed charge,and concentrate on "catching some dangerous cunts".
and regain some of the respect that cops are rapidly losing.

scumdog

8th September 2011, 17:42

Or he could ignore his drive to achieve quota,disregard the irrelevant 13 km excessive speed charge,and concentrate on "catching some dangerous cunts".
and regain some of the respect that cops are rapidly losing.

Soo...lemme get this right, if the actions of rastuscat in Canterbury were as you desired in your opening statement it would suddenly give respect to cops in say....Wakworth??:blink:

rastuscat

8th September 2011, 19:07

We used to have a quota. Now we can write as any as we want.

Smirk :whistle:

scumdog

8th September 2011, 19:20

We used to have a quota. Now we can write as any as we want.

Smirk :whistle:

Haha!
Yep, on the odd time I'm dealing with an obnoxiou twat that doesn't appreciate my efforts and shows it by at some stage using that classic line 'Yeah, go on arsehole, write it out, haven't you got anything better to do than fill yer qutoa'.

I reply in a mild manner "You've got it wrong sir (rarely ever a ma'am) I don't have a quota, it's not like pauas you know, we're allowed as many as we like."

THAT really smooths the waters...:shutup:

rastuscat

8th September 2011, 20:09

Haha!
Yep, on the odd time I'm dealing with an obnoxiou twat that doesn't appreciate my efforts and shows it by at some stage using that classic line 'Yeah, go on arsehole, write it out, haven't you got anything better to do than fill yer qutoa'.

I reply in a mild manner "You've got it wrong sir (rarely ever a ma'am) I don't have a quota, it's not like pauas you know, we're allowed as many as we like."

THAT really smooths the waters...:shutup:

We all have our favourites. Another two this week and I win a toaster. I always dream of saying that, but I value my career too much :woohoo:

Parlane

8th September 2011, 20:11

We all have our favourites. Another two this week and I win a toaster. I always dream of saying that, but I value my career too much :woohoo:

You've told us multiple times now! lol.

scumdog

8th September 2011, 20:14

We all have our favourites. Another two this week and I win a toaster. I always dream of saying that, but I value my career too much :woohoo:

Hmm, you must value it more than me - I've used similar to that.

(I suspect my boss sweats about the things I say - PC I'm not and NIDGAF.)

rastuscat

8th September 2011, 20:19

Hmm, you must value it more than me - I've used similar to that.

(I suspect my boss sweats about the things I say - PC I'm not and NIDGAF.)

Runs on zero quite a bit.........

http://www.flickr.com/photos/thebrianmeyer/4359119101/lightbox/

scumdog

8th September 2011, 20:28

Runs on zero quite a bit.........

http://www.flickr.com/photos/thebrianmeyer/4359119101/lightbox/

A minus reading would be me!:woohoo::rofl:

Scuba_Steve

8th September 2011, 20:31

We all have our favourites. Another two this week and I win a toaster. I always dream of saying that, but I value my career too much :woohoo:

Well I'll tell ya what Mr. rastuscat I should be cruising the South Island next year hopefully. So you can pull me up, I'll give u the "revenue gathering" & you can give me "Another two this week and I win a toaster" & if you need you can give me the piece of paper I will file away with the rest & ignore. Everyone wins you get to say your line & 1 step closer to your toaster & I get to meet 1 of my 2 favorite South Island cops :woohoo: