Lower speed limit proposed

[The Pastor]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10752663

[ukusa]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10752663
you could probably lower it to 50 & people will still die. There will be people who have driven that stretch for the last 40 years at the current limit & never had a problem with it.
Some people are just poor drivers (despite having a licence) & will always be poor drivers, unfortunately they will kill others.

[Latte]

Even more reason to go through Kaiaua instead :D

[Eyegasm]

From the picture in the article there have been no deaths in the 100kph zone??

:shutup:

[oneofsix]

I don't get their reasoning. Presumably the road is design to handle a certain speed and providing that is at or above the speed limit then the 100 k limit applies. If people are still crashing on the road even though it can handle the speeds they were traveling at then isn't it better to look for the other causes and fix those? This would also improve safety elsewhere. Doesn't lowering the speed because the driving is too poor for the road only prolong the issue? If the people are crashing because they are exceeding the existing speed limits and the road design will lowering the limit help.
BTW IMO if they do lower the limit i don't think there will be a 100k section. It will be all 80 with possibly the short 60k section.

[Latte]

From the picture in the article there have been no deaths in the 100kph zone??

:shutup:

Which would be why they're leaving it at 100kph ...

[willytheekid]

:shit:

Damn those figures are NOT good :

HIGHWAY TOLL

* 29 fatal crashes on SH2 since 2001

* 22 people were badly injured in those accidents

* 36 other smashes resulted in serious injury to 44

Something obviously had to be done :yes:
.....then again, if they stopped handing out license's so easily and actually "taught" people to drive safely (compulsory defensive driver course's?..I dunno..just a thought) -instead of the old "there ya go...good luck out there!" system that is currently in place, we might have (Slightly!) better drivers in this country ay.

Still, its way to many deaths on that road :(

[nodrog]

What do you expect when Aucklanders spend 48 weeks of the year putting around town, and on nice straight motorways. Then every long weekend they think they are perfectly capable of driving to their batches, along roads that have corners and hills and oncoming traffic etc.

If they blocked access from the north side of the Bombay turnoff, accidents would half I reckon.

[Gremlin]

Yep... the road definitely jumped out and ripped those poor drivers off it...

Damn car eating roads... I tell ya... :angry:

[Zedder]

I don't get their reasoning. Presumably the road is design to handle a certain speed and providing that is at or above the speed limit then the 100 k limit applies. If people are still crashing on the road even though it can handle the speeds they were traveling at then isn't it better to look for the other causes and fix those? This would also improve safety elsewhere. Doesn't lowering the speed because the driving is too poor for the road only prolong the issue? If the people are crashing because they are exceeding the existing speed limits and the road design will lowering the limit help.
BTW IMO if they do lower the limit i don't think there will be a 100k section. It will be all 80 with possibly the short 60k section.

I'm not sure myself oo6. In the article it said that lowering the speed limit was the most cost effective, therefore it's presumably the cheapest way of addressing bad road configuration or other factors.

Standby for more info from cops et al.

[Swoop]

That bit of road has been well visited by the Yellow Paint Monster and there are double yellow lines everywhere.
A road to be avoided at the best of times, but certainly not a dangerous road. There are some dangerous drivers who use it, however...

[oneofsix]

I'm not sure myself oo6. In the article it said that lowering the speed limit was the most cost effective, therefore it's presumably the cheapest way of addressing bad road configuration or other factors.

Standby for more info from cops et al.

What concerns me is that it is considered the most cost effective for that piece of road not necessarily overall, narrow focus looking only at the cheapest way to reduce accidents on that stretch of road. Also the obsession with speed and NZTA's attempts to return us to the 80k limit of old. Hence my comment about design of the road. If it is bad configuration then the limit shouldn't be 100k. I suspect it is not bad configuration but bad skills, what you will see is a shift in accident type as people doze off the road instead.

[Zedder]

What concerns me is that it is considered the most cost effective for that piece of road not necessarily overall, narrow focus looking only at the cheapest way to reduce accidents on that stretch of road. Also the obsession with speed and NZTA's attempts to return us to the 80k limit of old. Hence my comment about design of the road. If it is bad configuration then the limit shouldn't be 100k. I suspect it is not bad configuration but bad skills, what you will see is a shift in accident type as people doze off the road instead.

Yep, the words cost effective certainly implies that it's a cheap fix instead of dealing with the real issues. This is the problem we get when money from traffic fines goes into a central fund and not a road safety improvement fund, it's siphoned off into other areas.

[riffer]

Speed limit reduction is something that can be done. It produces a result which is quantifiable, and easily enforceable, and quite often has the added benefit of actually working, albeit with an amount of frustration and irritation to competent drivers.

Education, on the other side, is something that is harder to quantify. Firstly, a lot of the population are actually borderline retards, imbeciles and morons (these are actually legal definitions which aren't used anymore - look them up).

Therefore we have to allow for this fact. It's a sad and unfortunate but until we lose the idea that we have a god-given right to drive or ride and actually make the license very very hard to get it will continue to progress along this path.

NZTA are in an invidious position but it's not really their fault.

[avgas]

Starting to get to the point where I just unbolt the plate and run whenever I see flashing lights.
Not very grown up of me - but its turning into a bit of a joke really. I feel sorry for the police, they have gone past being "the threat" to becoming the nations housekeepers/maids.
Wouldn't surprise me if national security becomes privatized (in say 50 years time) and all the cops quit the force and join private firms where they can actually help people.
If dropping the speed limit saves lives then an autobahn would increase in death rate every year.
We are being sold statistics and swallowing it with every mouthful like bad medicine.

[trustme]

Impatience is the problem on that stretch of road. There is a huge variations in the speeds of the different road users , cars, trucks, campers , cars with caravans or boats. Frustration sets in & people do dumb shit. Lowering the speed limit simply shifts the pressure point.
More passing lanes & better drivers is the solution .

[avgas]

I used to do this route on a daily basis.
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Now I was young and stupid - so I used to average 140kph on that trip.

But long arm of the law said "This road is too fast - drop the speed to 80kmh".......that didn't fix it so they said "This road is too dangerous, lets improve the quality of it"
Ironically that also didn't fix it.

They failed to notice the fact that most of the drivers in this area:
- Are old and blind
- Have very little vehicle education
- Are pissed as a brewery
- Getting charged on this road meant you had to ring up your old/blind or pissed mate to give you a lift home......you drove the next day as there was f-all public transport

But no, lets slow down every road on the country, in fact lets fit training wheels to bikes and autopilots to cars.......and continue to ignore the obvious problems.

[cheshirecat]

Too little speed can be problem as well. Re the 30 kph limits which seem to be springing up left right and center.
Methinks there is more skill to controling a bike at 30kph (especially in gusty winds) than say 40 when gyro effects come more into play. Therefore the riders concentration is more focussed on control than people pushing prams into your front wheel. Euro Ped/vehicle accident rates are far less than Wellington, yet have you ever tried stepping out in a street in Milan, Paris, Munich or London let alone dawdling at the lights when they turn green.

[Edbear]

you could probably lower it to 50 & people will still die. There will be people who have driven that stretch for the last 40 years at the current limit & never had a problem with it.
Some people are just poor drivers (despite having a licence) & will always be poor drivers, unfortunately they will kill others.


:shit:

Damn those figures are NOT good :

HIGHWAY TOLL

* 29 fatal crashes on SH2 since 2001

* 22 people were badly injured in those accidents

* 36 other smashes resulted in serious injury to 44

Something obviously had to be done :yes:
.....then again, if they stopped handing out license's so easily and actually "taught" people to drive safely (compulsory defensive driver course's?..I dunno..just a thought) -instead of the old "there ya go...good luck out there!" system that is currently in place, we might have (Slightly!) better drivers in this country ay.

Still, its way to many deaths on that road :(


That bit of road has been well visited by the Yellow Paint Monster and there are double yellow lines everywhere.
A road to be avoided at the best of times, but certainly not a dangerous road. There are some dangerous drivers who use it, however...


Speed limit reduction is something that can be done. It produces a result which is quantifiable, and easily enforceable, and quite often has the added benefit of actually working, albeit with an amount of frustration and irritation to competent drivers.

Education, on the other side, is something that is harder to quantify. Firstly, a lot of the population are actually borderline retards, imbeciles and morons (these are actually legal definitions which aren't used anymore - look them up).

Therefore we have to allow for this fact. It's a sad and unfortunate but until we lose the idea that we have a god-given right to drive or ride and actually make the license very very hard to get it will continue to progress along this path.

NZTA are in an invidious position but it's not really their fault.

Pretty well sums it up, really. That road is simply another proof that most drivers in NZ can't and are unsafe at any speed to steal a book title. :bye:

[Zedder]

Pretty well sums it up, really. That road is simply another proof that most drivers in NZ can't and are unsafe at any speed to steal a book title. :bye:

It probably wouldn't hurt to add in things like road configuration and surface though.

[DR650gary]

It's the Taniwha :shutup:

[avgas]

It probably wouldn't hurt to add in things like road configuration and surface though.
Shhhhhhh
or else McSAC will have another reason to go tour the country on tax payer.....

[Zedder]

Shhhhhhh
or else McSAC will have another reason to go tour the country on tax payer.....

Mate, Gareth Morgan should be made to fund the whole thing since he's so rich and outspoken about it all.

[Edbear]

It probably wouldn't hurt to add in things like road configuration and surface though.

Granted, but I've been driving for 40 years over much of NZ on/in all manner of wheeled transport and despite the major improvements in most road conditions and the staggering advances in vehicle safety, relatively safe roads continue to attract high accident rates.

[Zedder]

Granted, but I've been driving for 40 years over much of NZ on/in all manner of wheeled transport and despite the major improvements in most road conditions and the staggering advances in vehicle safety, relatively safe roads continue to attract high accident rates.

Sure, I just like to list all factors and because I was involved in roading for a number of years on the technical side, I saw what it takes to attempt to reduce the idiot factor on roads through design and construction.

[Edbear]

Sure, I just like to list all factors and because I was involved in roading for a number of years on the technical side, I saw what it takes to attempt to reduce the idiot factor on roads through design and construction.

Interesting job! :yes:

[avgas]

Mate, Gareth Morgan should be made to fund the whole thing since he's so rich and outspoken about it all.
The day Gareth uses his own money for something would have to become a national holiday.
He is an economics major whom worked his way through the R.b. - which means he is a graduate in being cheap, and was personally tutored by scrooge mcduck himself.

IF YOU WANT TO SAVE THE PLANET GARETH HOW ABOUT SCREWING US LESS FOR A START!!!

That felt better.

[Maha]

Why people even use that road is beyond me..there are much better alternatives.
The irony of it all is that the speed is 80 or less anyway as it is..:blink:
Its an arse bit of road.. even with the upgrade.

[meteor]

Impatience is the problem on that stretch of road. There is a huge variations in the speeds of the different road users , cars, trucks, campers , cars with caravans or boats. Frustration sets in & people do dumb shit. Lowering the speed limit simply shifts the pressure point.
More passing lanes & better drivers is the solution .

Absolutely agree with everything said above. More and longer passing lanes is the cheapest fix. Education and enforcement can only do so much... engineering the roads properly should be the first step however that costs too much. As can be seen by the deviation, the road will only change when enough people die. It's a safety over cost equation as the bean counters play with our lives....

[Maha]

Impatience is the problem on that stretch of road. There is a huge variations in the speeds of the different road users , cars, trucks, campers , cars with caravans or boats. Frustration sets in & people do dumb shit. Lowering the speed limit simply shifts the pressure point.
More passing lanes & better drivers is the solution .

...add to that the endless kilometers of double yellow lines and I say...
choose another route.

[Bender]

Why people even use that road is beyond me..there are much better alternatives.
The irony of it all is that the speed is 80 or less anyway as it is..:blink:
Its an arse bit of road.. even with the upgrade.

It is. Came through on Friday in heavy rain, couldn't believe how bad the surface is and how much the camber changed - big deep ruts from all the trucks constantly throwing the bike off line.

[Zedder]

Why people even use that road is beyond me..there are much better alternatives.
The irony of it all is that the speed is 80 or less anyway as it is..:blink:
Its an arse bit of road.. even with the upgrade.

Are you talking about going off at Mangatawhiri and using the Miranda road or something else Maha?

[avgas]

It is. Came through on Friday in heavy rain, couldn't believe how bad the surface is and how much the camber changed - big deep ruts from all the trucks constantly throwing the bike off line.
Its great isn't it! :yes::sunny:
Makes you feel like a real motorcyclist when things are not sugar coated.
Here is hoping they never fix it. Separates the men from the nancy's it does.

[scumdog]

Pretty well sums it up, really. That road is simply another proof that most drivers in NZ can't and are unsafe at any speed to steal a book title. :bye:

True.

Some could have ahead-on with themselves at 5kph on an airport runway at midday.

They are not driving - they are haphazardly steering a lump of metal with four wheels with just enough skill to avoid crashig it.

Most of the time.

And then are very surprised when they DO crash...:blink:

[Maha]

Are you talking about going off at Mangatawhiri and using the Miranda road or something else Maha?

No I/We normally use the Ohinewai/Tahuna road...dont join with SH27 until close to Matamata (if we are heading south)
I only use SH2 on Paeroa day, and only because we have a two hour ride either end of what is always a very big and hot day.

[Zedder]

No I/We normally use the Ohinewai/Tahuna road...dont join with SH27 until close to Matamata (if we are heading south)
I only use SH2 on Paeroa day, and only because we have a two hour ride either end of what is always a very big and hot day.

Thanks, I'll check it out.

[Gremlin]

I only use SH2 on Paeroa day, and only because we have a two hour ride either end of what is always a very big and hot day.
And ironically, they almost always do road works enroute on the day, without fail, each year :facepalm:

[PrincessBandit]

Travelled that road for years and can concur that sure, the road is unforgiving through there - no "margin for error" wiggle space, but as has been said ad infinitum the road itself is not dangerous. Drivers who either drive beyond their limits or with their brain not fully engaged or outside the conditions are the cause of all the accidents through that stretch.

Lowering the speed limit is likely to further increase the frustration felt by many motorists who travel that highway (yellow paint monster has had a field day already). I'm pretty sure there will be a high correlation between driver frustration and accident statistics.

[Zedder]

Travelled that road for years and can concur that sure, the road is unforgiving through there - no "margin for error" wiggle space, but as has been said ad infinitum the road itself is not dangerous. Drivers who either drive beyond their limits or with their brain not fully engaged or outside the conditions are the cause of all the accidents through that stretch.

Lowering the speed limit is likely to further increase the frustration felt by many motorists who travel that highway (yellow paint monster has had a field day already). I'm pretty sure there will be a high correlation between driver frustration and accident statistics.

Yes, lowering the speed limit will probably increase frustration.

Road width and alignment plays a major part in providing safe travel. Sealed shoulders with runoff zones (clear zones ), passing lanes and other engineered elements are basic to roading design and construction. However, an upgrade simply appears to be in the "can't afford it basket".