Winch project

[buggsubique]

Ok, here's the deal.

The Africa is a pig of a heavy bike...but I want to ride it places like 2 smokes go...and maybe some places where they cant. Infact, as an arbitrary goal, perhaps I want to take it through the rock garden and devils staircase...I think the term for that is "stretch goal"

So who's got experience with ATV winches? There's a few around, around the $50-150 mark...and probably nothing flash at that price. I's also looking at boat winches which seem to rate around the 900kg mark. Ample for the 250ish kg riding weight of the AT.

Two key issues I need advice on are lifting / pulling points on the frame and the electrical set up - ie where to take the current from (indeed peak draw of the unit). The AT has a tonne of space under the rear side panels for a secondary battery...but with a 320W (or is it 360W? must check...) stator perhaps it can run off the motobatt with the other electrics off and the engine running? Already have a fan-cooled heavy duty reg/rect fitted.

Pulling points I was thinking about having the winch running two strops back to the footpegs, and then the cable running forward (or back) to the anchor point. This way the setup can be dismounted in seconds and stowed till needed.

I'll be the first to admit, there isn't a lot that logically justifies this project apart from "just coz".

Only other link I've found is this old one (http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=189353)which is lame.

Thoughts?

[DR650gary]

Block & tackle may also work for the rare occasions you would need it.

Something like this

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Sports/Hunting-shooting/Accessories/Other/auction-410281872.htm

I know it says 180 kg limit, but you would be mainly dragging not dead weight lifting.

[JATZ]

Hmmmm, Interesting..... :sherlock:

Could you mount the winch down low, say about bashplate level and run the cable through a block attached to the bottom triple clamp ? :scratch:
Some how attach the control switch to the handle bar ?
I'm guessing you want to be seated on the bike while your winching ?
How 'bout Hydraulic winches ?:woohoo:


You've got me thinking now....

[Padmei]

All I want to see is the video of the 1st time you use it bro.
Actually I thought the thread was going to be about winching our bikes across the Wairau..

[buggsubique]

Hmmmm, Interesting..... :sherlock:

You've got me thinking now....

That's the spirit Jatz! I don't have a lot of room under the front cowl / lights , infact I would need to drop a steel mounting plate off the lower triple clamp bolts to drop it another 20-30mm then run it out front...

Bashplate mounts on the front - that's a good idea, but I think they're only steel tabs.. Maybe I'll look at the engine bar mounts and see about that...

Lookin at this one (http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=409826086) tomorrow. Boat winch but might be able to stow in a pannier rather than be mounted up the already heavy front end...

[buggsubique]

Actually I thought the thread was going to be about winching our bikes across the Wairau..

Yeah we talked about that didn't we... still on the to-do list...along with sealing the airbox, drainage hoses, exhaust...

[pete-blen]

opps double post..Deleted..

[Eddieb]

I've thought about this before:

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/RZmApFHMmus" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/jTHvhUvMz90" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/d0Yr6wCBtOk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[pete-blen]

I think a boat capstan would be yer best bet..
it will need a rope retainer....then the rope feeds on to the ground
be hined you.. rap the rope 3 or 4 times around the capstan then lock
the retainer roller down...

as far as wireing goes... You have the wire in the bike
already..starter motor ...Put a 2 way switch in the HT lead to the
motor.. then you can send power to either the starter or caspstan/winch..
use the start button...(PS.. start button is a low amp draw so theres no
chance of burning the start button out..hi amps go though the solinoid)

with a 2 wheeler you are going to need to be sitting on the bike..
rope/cable pullers are no good if you are alone...

[Eddieb]

oops double post

[JATZ]

The trouble with those Bugs is they are quite bulky :blink: unless you did put it in a pannier and attach it with a karabiner to a low mounting point.
I was thinking of something like this>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjDyZ8B14K4
Mount it sort of permanantly on your bash plate.... so long as it didn't interfere with spring compression......
Actually they are both quite bulky.....it's starting to give me a headache.....

[buggsubique]

as far as wireing goes... You have the wire in the bike
already..starter motor ...Put a 2 way switch in the HT lead to the
motor.. then you can send power to either the starter or caspstan/winch..
use the start button...(PS.. start button is a low amp draw so theres no
chance of burning the start button out..hi amps go though the solinoid)


That's thinking...cheers Pete.

That muppet in the F800 vid had it direct off his battery, no doubt unfused, and was running the bike same time. Classic when he had the clutch pulled in as his mate released the winch...too much weights not enough speedwork.

So far, these vids are pussies doing demos. This video is a bit more like it...but we can do better lads...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgxFUXwk_PM

I do like the Warn though...

Pete, if it has a remote then perhaps just take if off the battery side of the starter solenoid? That way, starter remains available and can use the winch controller proper like so it can feed out too? still have the benefit of the 30A main fuse too, so long as I don't use starter and winch?

[almoto]

Check this dude out...he is using his on a RWT trip...

www.guzzioverland.co.uk/

[pete-blen]

That's thinking...cheers Pete.

That muppet in the F800 vid had it direct off his battery, no doubt unfused, and was running the bike same time. Classic when he had the clutch pulled in as his mate released the winch...too much weights not enough speedwork.

So far, these vids are pussies doing demos. This video is a bit more like it...but we can do better lads...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgxFUXwk_PM

I do like the Warn though...

Pete, if it has a remote then perhaps just take if off the battery side of the starter solenoid? That way, starter remains available and can use the winch controller proper like so it can feed out too? still have the benefit of the 30A main fuse too, so long as I don't use starter and winch?

Usaly the main power surply to the starter motor is un-fused..
ie..Bat into sol / sol to starter motor.. Its the smaller lighter switchs that need
overload protection...
The sol is basicly a big switch that oparated by a small switch/button....

So for a remote set up... come of the out let side of the main fuse..

[clint640]

Having done a bit of winching with 4x4's I can tell you that an electric winch can be a really good way of going from just being stuck, to being stuck with a flat battery. :facepalm:

That Warn winch will use all of your AT's electrical output (& then some probably) to pull you along at about what could do with a block & tackle.

As Pete sez I could see how it might be useful if travelling alone though as you could winch & drive, but I think it would be a bitch to rig to do that in anything but ideal situations, & you don't usually get stuck in 'ideal situations' To not have it pull you over sideways you would need an anchor point directly straight ahead. The times I have had to recover a vehicle that is pointing exactly where it needs to go, with an anchor point exactly on that line also, I can count on the toes of one hand. <_<

Cheers
Clint

[rogerh]

Don't know if I should admin to this, but in my tool kit I have a rope and couple of pulleys. It is useful, but mainly for "recovery" type stuck. Think dragging the bike up a steep bank by the back wheel... I mainly use it when riding alone, and usually with lighter bikes. The rope gets more use than the pulleys, but I would not be without it when trail riding in hairy places without help.

Not sure how much help it would be with a heavier bike. I agree most of the videos are just for show. They didn't really need a winch:innocent:

[Waihou Thumper]

All good having a pulley system if a - you can find a suitable anchor point and 2 - your bike is still within the distance of your pulley travel. If not, then you are going to need more rope and then it gets complicated, resets, and possibly different types of pulley systems. I carried one for a little while then thought about it some more, but it has more use in the garage lifting and hauling aloft heavy items.

[buggsubique]

Got this winch today. Figured for $50 including a newish, barely used and maintained car battery, can't go too far wrong. It fits nicely on the rear rack of the AT and has mounting plate underneath. It only pulls though, clutch release to let the cable out, so no good for descents, only climbs or pulls.

Yeah its heavyish, only really want to carry it for c*nty rides, it's not a full time accessory, that's for sure.

This should be fun! now to find some time...gotta get 18 more fence posts in this weekend...

Taking camera man applications now...:kick:

http://images.trademe.co.nz/photoserver/tq/7/187170007.jpg

[DR650gary]

At that price you can't go wrong.

I keep a car battery charged up as a starter base for the bikes as it it easier to move a battery that a car or bike so you are ahead even if the winch is crap.

I suppose 2 way is smarter but why bother. If you can't go down you sure as hell won't get up........ unless you have no choice :blink:

[Underground]

Get a pulley and run it on two to one, that way the winch will be working about half as hard (albeit half as fast) that way with the bike running you might be closer to supplying enough power to run it.

[Taz]

Wouldn't the winch just make it heavier? Get a lighter bike.

[buggsubique]

Wouldn't the winch just make it heavier? Get a lighter bike.

Nah not at all! this winch is the Africa's new anti-gravity device!:facepalm:

[andy mac]

GraemeT wanted to singlehandedly load his TTR250 into his Landrover SWB with the canvas top on, so the bike must face rearwards with the front wheel on the tailgate.

He made an axle that clips onto the TTR’s rear rack, and the axle is loaded with hi-tech thin line. The line leads thru the Landy to the front bumper. A battery drill attaches to the axle and he winds it effortlessly up the ramp. Reverse drill controls the descent.

He ain’t half clever! :clap:

[marks]

with a winch fitted you might be the first (and last) AT to ever get down the Devils Staircase and up the Rock Garden

just think of the photo ops....

[buggsubique]

with a winch fitted you might be the first (and last) AT to ever get down the Devils Staircase and up the Rock Garden

just think of the photo ops....

12345:yes:7890

[GSers]

Have a lok at this for a battery pack smaller lighter powerful and recharge in 15 minutes from flat.
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=556371&highlight=lithium+battery
GSers

[buggsubique]

Wow, that was impressive!

Did a test run on the car battery under lightish load and it drew between 3-7amps.

Killed the lights on the AT and ran it off the motobatt, ran fine.

Ran the engine, and with the winch jumped direct from the battery, hit the go button. The current from the alternator almost added half again to the speed of the winch on battery alone.

My multimeter is a crappy one so speed was lame owing to the lightweight multimeter leads.

So, gut feel is, the winch should run nicely off the motobatt with the engine at idle (or higher - 360W output peaks at 5000rpm).

Cool. Can't wait to try it....

[pampa]

Great, keen to see u trying and now have time to ...

plus if it worked on your lawn it will most definitely work on Rock garden ...

:scratch:


Wow, that was impressive!

Did a test run on the car battery under lightish load and it drew between 3-7amps.

Killed the lights on the AT and ran it off the motobatt, ran fine.

Ran the engine, and with the winch jumped direct from the battery, hit the go button. The current from the alternator almost added half again to the speed of the winch on battery alone.

My multimeter is a crappy one so speed was lame owing to the lightweight multimeter leads.

So, gut feel is, the winch should run nicely off the motobatt with the engine at idle (or higher - 360W output peaks at 5000rpm).

Cool. Can't wait to try it....

[buggsubique]

Great, keen to see u trying and now have time to ...

plus if it worked on your lawn it will most definitely work on Rock garden ...

:scratch:

Crawl...walk...run

[Waihou Thumper]

Nice work Matt....I too did some work, but a little more necessary work...:) I guess you will now HAVE to find a purpose and somewhere to test it out....Next winter maybe? Always thinking, damn shame your name wasn't Blair aye :).......Great title for a thread....haha

[buggsubique]

I guess you will now HAVE to find a purpose and somewhere to test it out....Next winter maybe?

Next winter?? Nah mate, soon as wife's back from kicking Aussie's arses at Squash I'm going native in the Akatarawas...find me some chutes to 'ride' up!

A bit of nostalgia, I couldn't find the one with them winching up the cliff, but this has a bit of it...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvFCmc41RZU

[buggsubique]

What better day to test a winch out than after a morning of rain in the Akatarawas!

Suffice to say, it worked (not without issue) and managed to haul the ~250kg AT up a nasty little chute. Ran the winch off the bike as it hauled up. The 360W alternator had it covered as she idled away.

For Pablo's Beemer we parked the Africa at the top and ran the winch off that, again at a high idle. That was until the wiring in one of the winch plugs parted contact... then it was "man-draulic"...

The winch was pretty slow, but in a dire situation it would pull most bikes out of any nasty shit, but for the hassle and effort I don't intend carrying it too many places!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrmScYbrY8A

[pete-blen]

As long as it works... pitty it wasn't
a bit less bulky..
may be a good idea on the front of the side car...
could still sit on the bike... use the winch & bike engine
at the same time...:shutup:

[buggsubique]

As long as it works... pitty it wasn't
a bit less bulky..
may be a good idea on the front of the side car...
could still sit on the bike... use the winch & bike engine
at the same time...:shutup:

yeah, its a boat winch so isn't that robust and doesn't have a reverse, only a free wheeling clutch :shit: to back it out.

Really for me it was proof of concept and a bit of fun to say I did it. I would only be taking this if I knew there were mean bogs or logs or anything else. Certainly not for the average adventure ride!

Side car...hmmmmm would love me a Ural...

[marks]

thats a nasty little climb - I've struggled with that on my trail bike and don't think I'd contemplate taking the klr up there.

I'll be heading in to Hydro Saddle and Dead Cow Bog on the KLR tomorrow if you are interested in taking the AT more places it shouldn't go....

[Underground]

Awesome tryout buggs.
Those Motobatts certainly have some cranking power, my AT has carb issues and coupled with the crap petrol it just won't start after standing for a week or so.
I decided to give it a go with the yellobatt and cranked it over for ages, stopped a few times to give my thumb a rest .....and eventually it started :blink:

[buggsubique]

Awesome tryout buggs.
Those Motobatts certainly have some cranking power, my AT has carb issues and coupled with the crap petrol it just won't start after standing for a week or so.
I decided to give it a go with the yellobatt and cranked it over for ages, stopped a few times to give my thumb a rest .....and eventually it started :blink:

Yep good batteries for sure, ran it on battery only for a few minutes today pulling Pablo's steed. My bike has carb probs too. Running waay rich and idling rough below 3k. Did the plugs today. Really need to rebuild them. Coming up to 95k on the odo now...

[Underground]

Really need to rebuild them. Coming up to 95k on the odo now...

Might have to colaborate on this one, our carbs are the same apart from jets as far as I know.

[pampa]

it was good fun, a very nice video but have made a beginners mistake and put the camera upside down :facepalm:

this foto shows how steep it is, note Buggs is standing close to rear wheel and handlebar are almost up his head
http://proyecto-magoo.com.ar/pablo/Pictures/2011.10.08-WinchTrialKarapoti/IMG_20111008_165909.jpg-1024x768.jpg

[ADVGD]

this foto...

Bloody nice job! Too many ideas are just waffled about on forums, nice to see this one was followed through to honorable completion in a true "Bloke in his shed" DIY approach :niceone:

Keen to see a video of it in action

[pampa]

will post video as soon as I can find how to rotate video :violin:


Bloody nice job! Too many ideas are just waffled about on forums, nice to see this one was followed through to honorable completion in a true "Bloke in his shed" DIY approach :niceone:

Keen to see a video of it in action

[Underground]

will post video as soon as I can find how to rotate video :violin:
Dont bother we wil just turn our monitors upside down :whistle:

[buggsubique]

Dont bother we wil just turn our monitors upside down :whistle:

ha, pretty sure it won't matter either way - I'm upside down for part of it myself, hence the dirt on the right shoulder! :facepalm:

[Mikeonabike]

Nice work Buggs, looking like a mean system!! Imagine where you'll be able to get that road bike now!! haha

We'll have to get out for a ride again, once I get another bike that is. I managed to ride the KLX to work a total of about 10 times before it got pinched, hooray!! Apparently the disc lock and steering lock are a little ineffective if you can just pick the bike up and walk off with it, might need something heavier aye!! haha

[buggsubique]

Oh man that sux! Might be DR/KLR time? (And no dear readers that is not a cue for debate on this thread! :))

[offrd]

360watts at 12v is 30amps. This is your bikes maximum current capability.

What does the winch draw? if its pulling 360watts and pulling the voltage down to say 8 volts, which it quite well could do under a load, this will require 45amps from your charging system.

Your charging system, will not appreciate this and will probably leak magic smoke...

Then all the winch in the world wont help much, its just then more to push home.....:facepalm:

[buggsubique]

the most i could get the winch to draw was about 7 amps. Even if it was 10A, with lights off (twin 60/55s) i wouldnt have thought there'd be much of a net difference in draw?

Open to further advice on it tho...that said, not planning on doing it again.

[Mungatoke Mad]

it was good fun, a very nice video but have made a beginners mistake and put the camera upside down :facepalm:

this foto shows how steep it is, note Buggs is standing close to rear wheel and handlebar are almost up his head
http://proyecto-magoo.com.ar/pablo/Pictures/2011.10.08-W
inchTrialKarapoti/IMG_20111008_165909.jpg-1024x768.jpg Next time if you stay on the main track for another minute you'll avoid that chute all together not nearly as steep & ya can leave the winch at home & bike will handle a lot better HaHa

[offrd]

Well 7amps aint much at all! its diddley squat! presuming your amp meter is correct, and im guessing it wont be out by much at all.

Your headlights draw 10amps on high beam.

Do a bit of testing under the highest load you can, even between two cars, your meter will probably only read to 10 amps, so if it goes over use fuses.

Reason i draw caution is i know i would be gutted if i fried my bike and sure you would be too.......:sick:

[buggsubique]

Next time if you stay on the main track for another minute you'll avoid that chute all together not nearly as steep & ya can leave the winch at home & bike will handle a lot better HaHa

Hell, might as well stay at home next time too! :)




Reason i draw caution is i know i would be gutted if i fried my bike and sure you would be too.......:sick:

Yeah ive seen pics of an rd03 burning... i was surprised with the winch draw myself, it fluctuated 3-7A low to medium load. cant recall if that was dragging the bike or not...

[pampa]

part 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbRj_3Ezv1A

[NordieBoy]

part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbRj_3Ezv1A

Nice dive.