What class will this fit into?

[cave weta]

These are now available in NZ!
http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/pocket-pit-bikes/auction-415534303.htm
have a look at all the photos - bike should be ready to race after a catch tank fitted
<a href="http://tinypic.com?ref=23l1fg8" target="_blank"><img src="http://i44.tinypic.com/23l1fg8.jpg" border="0" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic"></a>

[CHOPPA]

I was considering running one of those engine but it says on the pitster pro website that the 155ho engine is a race engine

[Henk]

Would probably run F4 but if anyone protested you'd be on pretty thin ice.
Not worth the risk and aggravation in my opinion.

[cave weta]

I was considering running one of those engine but it says on the pitster pro website that the 155ho engine is a race engine

But it comes out in standard bikes!????

[CHOPPA]

Its this wording I have been told would mess things up

FXR 155Z, Forzas flagship racing range, is born to race against the best -Pitster Pro, Thumpstar & BBR. My first impression is FXR 155Z looks like a Japanese bike, especially so much attention to details.

[Buddha#81]

Big can of worms here........strictly its a no go as they have to be a road going based commuter type engine. It can be argued that the engine is a honda cub/postie based engine.

[CHOPPA]

They will be fine for the Moto 1 class :devil2:

[Tard]

Big can of worms here........strictly its a no go as they have to be a road going based commuter type engine. It can be argued that the engine is a honda cub/postie based engine.

Hahaha, can of worms is right!

I wanna get one of these and have a go at trying to run in A / "Alien" grade one day Henk !!!!:apumpin:

Wadda you reckon Koba, Rich, Hamish, Fishie, Andrew.....:girlfight:

[cave weta]

Its this wording I have been told would mess things up

FXR 155Z, Forzas flagship racing range, is born to race against the best -Pitster Pro, Thumpstar & BBR. My first impression is FXR 155Z looks like a Japanese bike, especially so much attention to details.

Aggghh - words scmurds.... - tell you what. how about I run an advert that says its a farmbike/commuter/childrens bike? you could keep the advert to show the committee when you win the championship!

They are just little pitbike engines:devil2:

A mere 19hp and 12,000 rpm...

[F5 Dave]

But it comes out in standard bikes!????
RMs are std bikes. RS125s are std bikes. TZ250s are std bikes.

[jasonu]

Big can of worms here........strictly its a no go as they have to be a road going based commuter type engine. It can be argued that the engine is a honda cub/postie based engine.

Doesn't have to be road going. Farm bike and some trail bike motors are legal.

Plus you would look like a homo riding one of these.

[cave weta]

Plus you would look like a homo riding one of these.

er- did you just say that motard riders look like homos?:nono:

[jasonu]

er- did you just say that motard riders look like homos?:nono:

Only from some angles...

[sidwyz]

My interpetation of the rules would be, putting aside the competition/non competition part.

NOT LEGAL,

MNZ quote.
24.2.1 Solo motorcycles shall have two engine capacity classes:
F4 2 stroke 55-100cc
2 stroke 55-125cc air cooled
4 stroke 55-150cc
F5 2 stroke 0-50cc
4 stroke 0-100cc air cooled.

Ah but rebored engines are allowed up to 158.09

MNZ quote.
24.2.3 The maximum capacity for rebored engines shall be:
F4 2 stroke 55-100cc - 104cc
2 stroke 55-125cc air cooled - 130.5cc
4 stroke 55-150cc – 158.09cc
F5 2 stroke 0-50cc - 53cc
4 stroke 0-100cc - 104cc

However this engine starts above the maximum capacity limits,

It gets tricky cause people build engines out of parts that all started as more than the capacity limits allowed before being changed to meet rules (debored/destroked ect), I think these type are legal by my opinion and well within the "spirit" of buckets.

These are just my views and i'm sure everyone see's it there own way.

[Yow Ling]

Maybe the close ratio gear box would help screw it

http://www.motorbikecity.com.au/engines/new-2010-pitsterpro-z160-ho-engine--6-plate-hd-clutch-1133/

[CHOPPA]

Way too many rules in Bucket racing classes.

There was one of those bikes racing down here the other day, looked fast

[gav]

4 speed gearbox, little wheels, 17 hp .... faster than a FXR150? Doubt it would be on a full circuit.

[Buckets4Me]

they have to be a road going based commuter type engine.


no they dont. when it say non competition it dosent mean commuter it means NON competition big difference

but when you buy a bike that is advertised as a race bike then that is competition so a no go
if it was for riding around in a paddock by little kids then it would be ok

if I could buy a honda rs125 with reg and wof I still wouldn't be alowed to race it (dont :lol: I'v seen tz750's with regoes)

[Buckets4Me]

4 speed gearbox, little wheels, 17 hp .... faster than a FXR150? Doubt it would be on a full circuit.

thats a stock standard fxr150 at 14 h/p? and 120 kg ?

I recon that could be a goer but who is going to splash out $2200 to be laghed at ?

we have had lots of pitbikes racing up here

if one ever beats me at taupo or hampton downs :girlfight::Pokey:

[koba]

thats a stock standard fxr150 at 14 h/p? and 120 kg ?



I'm sure you have learnt by now that it isn't all about power to weight! :Pokey:

117kg was our measurement of a commuter/racer in race trim. (Dash, lights, front fairing removed, nylon and numbers added)

[koba]

The FORZA FXR160 Motard is completely and undeniably ILLEGAL for bucket racing.

I'm guessing you are selling them, if not the below comment may still be read by someone who is:

Sure, people probably aren't going to be lynched at the gates for turning up with one but don't bloody sell them under the miss-conception that they may be kind of legal because they really are not. I'm not accusing you of doing that, I'm not saying you would but I know some people would so don't even think about it Mr!

I used to ride one (not one of these, a real shit one mine was) for a bit, It wasn't legal but it got me started, then I got an MB100 when I was able to.

As for the price comments above, if they are good quality that isn't a bad price at all. It's a 'pitty' that most peoples impressions of such bikes are tarnished by the shit that was coming out of china a few years ago.


Hahaha, can of worms is right!

I wanna get one of these and have a go at trying to run in A / "Alien" grade one day Henk !!!!:apumpin:

Wadda you reckon Koba, Rich, Hamish, Fishie, Andrew.....:girlfight:


Hey, shit look at that, I'm in front of Rich, Hamish, Fishie and Andrew! :lol:

I'm going to savour this moment! :headbang:

[Tard]

There was one of those bikes racing down here the other day, looked fast

...Fast, no, but it's fun trying and that as far as I know is the point of buckets eh :Punk:

[Yow Ling]

...Fast, no, but it's fun trying and that as far as I know is the point of buckets eh :Punk:

I thought the point of buckets was trying to win !

[Buckets4Me]

I thought the point of buckets was trying to win !

someone thats got it right :clap:

this is real racing at it's best after all

[cave weta]

The FORZA FXR160 Motard is completely and undeniably ILLEGAL for bucket racing.

I'm guessing you are selling them, if not the below comment may still be read by someone who is:

Sure, people probably aren't going to be lynched at the gates for turning up with one but don't bloody sell them under the miss-conception that they may be kind of legal because they really are not. I'm not accusing you of doing that, I'm not saying you would but I know some people would so don't even think about it Mr!

I used to ride one (not one of these, a real shit one mine was) for a bit, It wasn't legal but it got me started, then I got an MB100 when I was able to.

As for the price comments above, if they are good quality that isn't a bad price at all. It's a 'pitty' that most peoples impressions of such bikes are tarnished by the shit that was coming out of china a few years ago.




Hey, shit look at that, I'm in front of Rich, Hamish, Fishie and Andrew! :lol:

I'm going to savour this moment! :headbang:

Well Im STOKED that Ive got your attention. I know nothing about bucket rules- all I want to find out is what you guys think and I certainly getting that.:lol:

The importer tells me that the tech inspector from Mt Wellington club was invited to look at it and he has given it the green light. they are a strong performer that is suitable for racing, the FXR155 are not sold as a race bike though. they are a top of the line pitbike.

I have one of these motors in my postie bike- its fuckin insane!
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/kA9iWnZYhBE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[F5 Dave]

. .

The importer tells me that the tech inspector from Mt Wellington club was invited to look at it and he has given it the green light. . .
he can say anything he likes & may even allow them to race at auckland days, but it doesn't make them legal per-say.

[jasonu]

Well Im STOKED that Ive got your attention. I know nothing about bucket rules- all I want to find out is what you guys think and I certainly getting that.:lol:

The importer tells me that the tech inspector from Mt Wellington club was invited to look at it and he has given it the green light. they are a strong performer that is suitable for racing, the FXR155 are not sold as a race bike though. they are a top of the line pitbike.

I have one of these motors in my postie bike- its fuckin insane!


The Mt Welli 'tech inspector' is VERY loose with the rules.

[cave weta]

The Mt Welli 'tech inspector' is VERY loose with the rules.

Well come on!.... if you guys that say it can't be legal dont give me a clear reason soon I might just sponsor someone into it.

Are you scared that its 'just not in the spirit of the sport?' ie: too bloody fast and not made out of enough different bikes?

[richban]

Well come on!.... if you guys that say it can't be legal dont give me a clear reason soon I might just sponsor someone into it.

Are you scared that its 'just not in the spirit of the sport?' ie: too bloody fast and not made out of enough different bikes?

Just read the rules. If you haven't noticed its a competition pit bike.

As for "too bloody fast". umm you're in la la land buddy.

[Buddha#81]

Just read the rules. If you haven't noticed its a competition pit bike.

As for "too bloody fast". umm you're in la la land buddy.

CW, you asked the question and you have had several answers.......they are in chapter 24 http://www.mnz.co.nz/competitionrules.aspx . While there are several places you can run such a bike when it comes down to it the bike is a Competition based bike and therefore makes it strictly illeagal.

It may well hold its own on Kart Tracks but in the big picture it will be outgunned. No one here is trying to piss you off but simply point out the facts.......Like it or not you have a toy (fooken cool one at that) and unless it can foot it in F3 on a full size race circuit ya backs against the wall with this one!

[sidwyz]

A clear reason?

Direct from MNZ website

24 ROAD RACING - MINIATURE

24.1 The Miniature Road Racing class or `Bucket Racing’ as it is also known, shall be
deemed to include solo motorcycles and sidecars.

24.2 Motorcycles Technical:

24.2.1 Solo motorcycles shall have two engine capacity classes:
F4 2 stroke 55-100cc
2 stroke 55-125cc air cooled
4 stroke 55-150cc
F5 2 stroke 0-50cc
4 stroke 0-100cc air cooled

24.2.2 Sidecars shall have one engine capacity class:
2 stroke 55-100cc
2 stroke 55-125cc air cooled
4 stroke 55-150cc

24.2.3 The maximum capacity for rebored engines shall be:
F4 2 stroke 55-100cc - 104cc
2 stroke 55-125cc air cooled - 130.5cc
4 stroke 55-150cc – 158.09cc
F5 2 stroke 0-50cc - 53cc
4 stroke 0-100cc - 104cc

24.2.4 Engines must be derived from non-competition motorcycles. Motocross, Road Racing,
Enduro and Go Kart motors and transmission parts are not permitted. There shall be
no restriction on the make, type or design of carburettor, ignition, exhaust, piston,
cam, valve springs or cooling system except for class eligibility. All engines must be
normally aspirated except F4 4 stroke engines of less than 100cc capacity, which may
be turbo or supercharged.
F4 2 stroke engines over 104cc are restricted to carburation equivalent to a single
24mm carburettor, F5 4 stroke engines over 53cc are restricted to carburation
equivalent to a single 20mm carburettor.

Link http://www.mnz.co.nz/download/2010_MoMS_Chapter_24_Road_Racing_Miniature.pdf
Or http://www.mnz.co.nz/competitionrules.aspx

Definitive I Think.

[cave weta]

It may well hold its own on Kart Tracks but in the big picture it will be outgunned. No one here is trying to piss you off but simply point out the facts.......Like it or not you have a toy (fooken cool one at that) and unless it can foot it in F3 on a full size race circuit ya backs against the wall with this one!


A clear reason?

Direct from MNZ website


24.2.4 Engines must be derived from non-competition motorcycles. Motocross, Road Racing,
Enduro and Go Kart motors and transmission parts are not permitted. There shall be
no restriction on the make, type or design of carburettor, ignition, exhaust, piston,
cam, valve springs or cooling system except for class eligibility. All engines must be
normally aspirated except F4 4 stroke engines of less than 100cc capacity, which may
be turbo or supercharged.
F4 2 stroke engines over 104cc are restricted to carburation equivalent to a single
24mm carburettor, F5 4 stroke engines over 53cc are restricted to carburation
equivalent to a single 20mm carburettor.

Link http://www.mnz.co.nz/download/2010_MoMS_Chapter_24_Road_Racing_Miniature.pdf
Or http://www.mnz.co.nz/competitionrules.aspx

Definitive I Think.

EXCELLENT! - that is clear now- thanks guys. Im glad that its not two grand of my money that brought it in then! if the importer decides to drop the price further over the next few weeks to clear it- I will let you know!

[Tard]

If you haven't noticed its a competition pit bike.

As for "too bloody fast". umm you're in la la land buddy.

Yeah it's a "competition" pitbike 100% based on a real basic engine - all they're doing is providing a "competition-ready" bike for numpties who aren't mechanically minded...not that I'd know anyone like that :shifty:....or those who don't have the hook-ups :lol:

They'll never handle as well as a 'proper' bike...or put out 30hp either:not: Ok for tight kart tracks but get blitzed on the 'real' tracks : )

[Yow Ling]

Yeah it's a "competition" pitbike 100% based on a real basic engine - all they're doing is providing a "competition-ready" bike for numpties who aren't mechanically minded...not that I'd know anyone like that :shifty:....or those who don't have the hook-ups :lol:

They'll never handle as well as a 'proper' bike...or put out 30hp either:not: Ok for tight kart tracks but get blitzed on the 'real' tracks : )

Your argument is a bit weak, for example a late model TZ250 is based on a tzr250 3xv you can race a tzr 250 in F3 but the TZ isnt eligible

If you are a numptie who needs to buy a "competition ready" bike , suzuki comes to the rescue with the FXR150, and for the more classic minded the Honda cb125t, Honda also build a range of current buckets CBR150, 125 so there is no need to bend the rules

[CHOPPA]

Your argument is a bit weak, for example a late model TZ250 is based on a tzr250 3xv you can race a tzr 250 in F3 but the TZ isnt eligible

If you are a numptie who needs to buy a "competition ready" bike , suzuki comes to the rescue with the FXR150, and for the more classic minded the Honda cb125t, Honda also build a range of current buckets CBR150, 125 so there is no need to bend the rules

Could you win on a stock CBR or FXR?

[Buckets4Me]

The importer tells me that the tech inspector from Mt Wellington club was invited to look at it and he has given it the green light. they are a strong performer that is suitable for racing, the FXR155 are not sold as a race bike though. they are a top of the line pitbike.



and who is the Tech Inspector ?

[gav]

Could you win on a stock CBR or FXR?

Mike? no, you? maybe. James Hoogie ran a pretty near stock slick shod FXR150 down here and was top 3.

[koba]

Could you win on a stock CBR or FXR?


Great question.

Not an easy answer, best way is to convince Fi5hy or Andrew to try it.

Otherwise the fragmented thoughts below may give some insight.

At Wellington:

Two years ago, yes.

Now, probably not.
But probably not far off. It doesn't take much to get one up to A-grade pace. Fi5hy and Andrew are fast on whatever they are on, When Andrew turned up he was punting a postie bike around the slipway in gumboots at some hideous pace.

Adrian's CBR isn't too far off stock and that's one of the faster ones in Wellington. What mods he has done have cost him very little.

Rich, Andrew A and Gavin V (maybe George too) are likely to have the only diesels you have seen with modifications past a pipe and carb. I know Hamish has had some more work done, but it doesn't look like it has resulted in much more power, Dunno what's up there.

Rick Ford won the GP in 2008 (maybe?) with a lightly tuned FXR, pipe and carb sort of thing.
The year later I came 9th on one that was a full trim roadbike, including old road tyres.

Just as much work is in making it race worthy with bits like clipons, decent rearsets that dont explode in the first crash, nylon, etc..


Bearing in mind the 'upgrade' carb for a bucket is usually something cheap and/or discarded from a bigger bike (250 singles etc)
The pipe just takes welding and cutting skills and is more about ground clearance than power on a lightly modded FXR.

Alot of mods on bikes don't actually make them any faster or easier to ride.
Engine power isn't the biggest factor in Kart track racing, skill and being able to ride the wheels of the fucker are.

[Yow Ling]

Could you win on a stock CBR or FXR?

Probably not, but thats no reason to let bikes that dont comply with the rules compete.

[richban]

Great question.

Not an easy answer, best way is to convince Fi5hy or Andrew to try it.

At Wellington:

Two years ago, yes.


Yeah the game has changed a bit.

I was looking through some old video from when we first got back into Kaitoki. My lap times have come down quite a bit. A lot to do with HP but also learning how to ride better. Still learning.

Still with maybe 3 hundie ish worth of mods you should have around 19hp at the wheel. Rebore 64mm cheap piston, PWK 30mm carb tuned proper. 500mm long header into an open muffler. Only problem then is keeping it on the track. Slicks front and rear. 2 fronts on standard rims. Then ride it really feckin hard. Some one should do a kit. Top end swap with exhaust. Now there is an idea.

[CHOPPA]

So is this engine set up not an option?

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/parts-for-sale/complete-engines/auction-419331823.htm

[jasonu]

So is this engine set up not an option?

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/parts-for-sale/complete-engines/auction-419331823.htm

If it is the same engine that is in the bike the original poster talks about then no.
It is like asking if a brand new KX100 motor that was never used in a 'competition' bike is legal.
As someone already pointed out there are heaps of totally legal options that won't take a lot of cash or effort to make competitive.

[CHOPPA]

If it is the same engine that is in the bike the original poster talks about then no.
It is like asking if a brand new KX100 motor that was never used in a 'competition' bike is legal.
As someone already pointed out there are heaps of totally legal options that won't take a lot of cash or effort to make competitive.

If there was a non competition bike that the KX100 motor came out in then I would be asking the same question.

What NEW engine would you say would be the best bet? Im thinking prob Loncin but they would fall in the same category as this engine as there are competition pit bikes that run Loncin engines.

I hear a lot of talk about FXR engines but all the ones I can find have done in excess of 30000ks when is a lot of revolutions on a small engine and before I was happy to race it id want to rebuild it, then to make it competitive it needs high comp piston, head mods, cams etc

[jasonu]

If there was a non competition bike that the KX100 motor came out in then I would be asking the same question.



Good question. If there was a (non competition) Kawasaki road bike produced with the EXACT motor, carb, airbox, ignition, CDI, wireing harness etc that comes in a KX100, how would that be viewed?
I totally doubt such a bike (KX100 commuter would be fun though) will be built but an interesting question all the same.

[richban]

So is this engine set up not an option?

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/parts-for-sale/complete-engines/auction-419331823.htm

How about one of these. The 125 is legal. might have to give it a roof chop.:rolleyes:

249947

[CHOPPA]

How about one of these. The 125 is legal. might have to give it a roof chop.:rolleyes:

249947

I like that!

[F5 Dave]

. . I hear a lot of talk about FXR engines but all the ones I can find have done in excess of 30000ks when is a lot of revolutions on a small engine and before I was happy to race it id want to rebuild it, then to make it competitive it needs high comp piston, head mods, cams etc
which is largely rebuilding it. CBR150 engine off ebay might be an idea.

[CHOPPA]

which is largely rebuilding it. CBR150 engine off ebay might be an idea.

I cant bloody find one! Found CBR125s......

Does Thailand have an ebay page??

[jasonu]

I cant bloody find one! Found CBR125s......

Does Thailand have an ebay page??

There was a complete CBR 150 race bike on TM last week apparently went for 4k.
Why didn't ya buy that? Could have been a race winner right away and probably remained competitive for years too.

[F5 Dave]

I cant bloody find one! Found CBR125s......

Does Thailand have an ebay page??
yeah probably, try thailadiboi.com

[Moooools]

yeah probably, try thailadiboi.com

I looked for hours and couldn't even find one CBR.

I don't want to come off as a Phil Goff but you, sir, are a liar.

[Moooools]

I cant bloody find one! Found CBR125s......

Does Thailand have an ebay page??

Try to get a 125 and do the big bore job on it.

http://www.akunar.com/BORE_KITS_RACE%20HEADS_CRANKSHAFTS.htm

I think that this kit runs for about $1000 landed in NZ. (Well at least it was about that when I contacted them early this year.)

But that might you may be able to do the FXR cheaper.


If you go for an FXR
If you send it to Gavin Veltemyer up in auckland he can do the whole lot at once with a pretty quick turn around. High comp and new piston, porting, lighten flywheel and redo the loom and check the rod etc, replacing it if need be. He can do cams as well if you want a bit of extra go.
You will have to shell out with some cash for his work but when you get the engine back it is ready to do whatever with. I don't know if he would like me putting all of his prices up but for the basic job (just porting and high comp piston/rebore) it would set you back about $800 I think. He doesn't have a bad price for a rod replacement either.
He has done quite a few of them and knows what he is doing. Saves you having to lug it around to different people.

Paying the man to do it is not everyone's cup of tea but it is a great service - and makes a fast engine.

[gav]

Not sure why you are so concerned about having to rebuild a s/h FXR motor. They do seem to be pretty bullet prooof.
And if you bought a brand new Loncin motor would you still do the same mods to it? ie big bore, race cams, race CDI, exhaust etc?
Tidy as FXR right here, low kms, and one of the faster green models http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/sports/auction-410805731.htm

[koba]

I hear a lot of talk about FXR engines but all the ones I can find have done in excess of 30000ks when is a lot of revolutions on a small engine and before I was happy to race it id want to rebuild it, then to make it competitive it needs high comp piston, head mods, cams etc

Str8 Jackets has done around 80 thou, that's with a couple of seasons worth of racing on it too, still going fine. (Maybe I just jinxed it then).

Just build or buy a bike and race it. That CB twin would get you going fine.

[koba]

Try to get a 125 and do the big bore job on it.


Naa, Different beasts. 125 = economy biased 2 valver. 150 = 4 valve decent motor.

[CHOPPA]

Str8 Jackets has done around 80 thou, that's with a couple of seasons worth of racing on it too, still going fine. (Maybe I just jinxed it then).

Just build or buy a bike and race it. That CB twin would get you going fine.

I want to spend no more then $2000 on a bike that can win haha

I dont really trust buying someone elses bike they look like they are gonna break and need lots of work, id rather build something from the ground up so everything is done right.

Im notorious for being hard on bikes so its gotta be strong

[koba]

I want to spend no more then $2000 on a bike that can win haha

I dont really trust buying someone elses bike they look like they are gonna break and need lots of work, id rather build something from the ground up so everything is done right.

Im notorious for being hard on bikes so its gotta be strong

The going rate of base bikes (std FXR etc) seems to be going up as popularity increases but that still isn't an unrealistic budget for a real weapon.
Mine is no weapon but it does OK in A grade. (I get would expect about the same placings as you got on Clive's CBR) It would probably cost about a grand to put that together but it would require a reasonable amount of work to do it for that.

Here is my recipe:

1x NSR rolling frame
1x Mb100 engine
1x Mb50 gearbox
1x 17" rear wheel
1x Cheapo rear brake (NSR didn't have one that would work)
2x Second hand 5 year old 125 slicks
1x RD 350 reedblock (Free)
1x RG150 Carb with 2 x RGV250 carb options (All Free, Cheers Gareth ;) )
1x Pipe from RG400 (I think, some old pipe anyway!)
1x muffler from RGV250 (Cut down to suit)

The rest is time and effort.

If you don't have the time and effort you should be able to buy a bike for a bit more that is all ready to go.

[RDjase]

I want to spend no more then $2000 on a bike that can win haha

I dont really trust buying someone elses bike they look like they are gonna break and need lots of work, id rather build something from the ground up so everything is done right.

Im notorious for being hard on bikes so its gotta be strong

Come to Taupo Track 3 on Sunday :yes:

Will be lots of Buckets to check out and maybe some for sale

[CHOPPA]

The going rate of base bikes (std FXR etc) seems to be going up as popularity increases but that still isn't an unrealistic budget for a real weapon.
Mine is no weapon but it does OK in A grade. (I get would expect about the same placings as you got on Clive's CBR) It would probably cost about a grand to put that together but it would require a reasonable amount of work to do it for that.

Here is my recipe:

1x NSR rolling frame
1x Mb100 engine
1x Mb50 gearbox
1x 17" rear wheel
1x Cheapo rear brake (NSR didn't have one that would work)
2x Second hand 5 year old 125 slicks
1x RD 350 reedblock (Free)
1x RG150 Carb with 2 x RGV250 carb options (All Free, Cheers Gareth ;) )
1x Pipe from RG400 (I think, some old pipe anyway!)
1x muffler from RGV250 (Cut down to suit)

The rest is time and effort.

If you don't have the time and effort you should be able to buy a bike for a bit more that is all ready to go.

Im going up to Tauranga this weekend and hopefully will get the CRM80 if it checks out, I have the CBR chassis which may not be the best but I like something bigger cause im tall and I like wide tyres. So far thats $1000 then I have $1000 to make it fast. Im not gonna count consumables like tyres and ill conveniently forgot things like nylon, ductail etc etc


Come to Taupo Track 3 on Sunday :yes:

Will be lots of Buckets to check out and maybe some for sale

Ill be up that way so if I get time id love to come check it out

[koba]

So far thats $1000 then I have $1000 to make it fast. Im not gonna count consumables like tyres and ill conveniently forgot things like nylon, ductail etc etc


That's actually quite a large and workable budget if spend wisely.


Do remember that buckets don't chew tyres at quite the same pace as superbikes...

[Tard]

A clear reason?

24.2.1 Solo motorcycles shall have two engine capacity classes:
4 stroke 55-150cc

24.2.3 The maximum capacity for rebored engines shall be:
4 stroke 55-150cc – 158.09cc

Definitive I Think.


Fook me...rules are rules, respect and all that....but bear with me a second/minute/hour :yawn: here...

It's 100% legal to have a 150cc engine and probably pay someone $$$ to bore, stroke, hotcam, etc to 158.09cc. Don't have any issue with this...and full respect to the engineers amongst 'us' - that's what buckets is all about.

BUT it's illegal to buy a stock 155cc engine???

It might be my fooked up logic but one way the rules could be interpreted are...
A) 'Probably more' money spent supporting NZ's small engine building industry boring to 158.09cc - which I'm not against of course
B) But an engine that's been bored 'directly' by a manufacturer to 155cc - 'cause essentially that's all a 155cc pitbike engine is isn't it(?) isn't cool? :cool:

As long as engine capacity doesn't exceed the 158.09 limit it shouldn't matter :confused: Isn't one aim of buckets to keep getting as many riders involved as possible?

[Moooools]

Naa, Different beasts. 125 = economy biased 2 valver. 150 = 4 valve decent motor.

Sorry I should have specified:

They offer a compete top end kit complete with 4 valve head.

[Yow Ling]

Fook me...rules are rules, respect and all that....but bear with me a second/minute/hour :yawn: here...

It's 100% legal to have a 150cc engine and probably pay someone $$$ to bore, stroke, hotcam, etc to 158.09cc. Don't have any issue with this...and full respect to the engineers amongst 'us' - that's what buckets is all about.

BUT it's illegal to buy a stock 155cc engine???

It might be my fooked up logic but one way the rules could be interpreted are...
A) 'Probably more' money spent supporting NZ's small engine building industry boring to 158.09cc - which I'm not against of course
B) But an engine that's been bored 'directly' by a manufacturer to 155cc - 'cause essentially that's all a 155cc pitbike engine is isn't it(?) isn't cool? :cool:

As long as engine capacity doesn't exceed the 158.09 limit it shouldn't matter :confused: Isn't one aim of buckets to keep getting as many riders involved as possible?

Yea that seems to cover it, you just need to follow the rules !
Allowance for rebore is just that, not an excuse to buy a 155cc engine
Life isnt always fair, get used to it

[koba]

Sorry I should have specified:

They offer a compete top end kit complete with 4 valve head.

Ahh, right. I guess thst shows how hard I looked!

Note to self: Really cheap CBR125's could be viable.

[CHOPPA]

Yea that seems to cover it, you just need to follow the rules !
Allowance for rebore is just that, not an excuse to buy a 155cc engine
Life isnt always fair, get used to it

Its not like anyone I met in Wellington is gonna care and if someone does care ill just remind myself that I dont give a fuck and id go home and have a little laugh to myself

[F5 Dave]

. . .
Note to self: Really cheap CBR125's could be viable.George's 125 to 150 conversion showed that they aren't that similar. You will note that if you look at the side of my MB engine I have ground the word **nda off. (Must do the same to the chain side cover).

[sidwyz]

Its not like anyone I met in Wellington is gonna care and if someone does care ill just remind myself that I dont give a fuck and id go home and have a little laugh to myself

I dont know you personally, most everyone knows who you are on here because of your profile and efforts and results in sbk. Great

You are acting like a real cock here, if you wanna race buckets and/or use it as training and/or keeping your eye in or like most of us having a great time, just fucking read the rules and follow them there not hard and options are plenty. Particularly if you intend to be at the pointy end of the field!

Out of interest would you turn up to the nationals on your BMW with lets say the registration plate and side stand still attached?

[CHOPPA]

You are acting like a real cock here

lol fair comment!

[Moooools]

George's 125 to 150 conversion showed that they aren't that similar. You will note that if you look at the side of my MB engine I have ground the word **nda off. (Must do the same to the chain side cover).

Well they share crankcases, transmission, clutch infact the entire bottom end apart from the crankshaft.

That big bore kit has all the parts including the crankshaft or can be done without the crank shaft and the some sleaves have to be put into the piston. Probably not the best idea looking at the results of georges attempt. However with the propper crank shaft it looks to be working well.

[koba]

Note to self: You made the right choice of engine.

[Moooools]

Note to self: You made the right choice of engine.

Who did and what engine?

[koba]

Who did and what engine?

I did. MB100. Sure your pussy diesel burns me now but just you wait sonny jim... In another 4 years I will have a monster!

[Moooools]

In 4 years i will hopefully be a qualified mechanical engineer and work will begin on my koba beating perfect bucket engine.

Perhaps a tandem twin 100 two stroke.
Or a v twin.
or something diesel and turbo.


Watch your back sir.

[koba]

In 4 years i will hopefully be a qualified mechanical engineer and work will begin on my koba beating perfect bucket engine.

Perhaps a tandem twin 100 two stroke.
Or a v twin.
or something diesel and turbo.


Watch your back sir.

I'll be able to keep an eye on it as I watch you disappear into the distance! :scooter:

[CHOPPA]

A clear reason?

Direct from MNZ website

24 ROAD RACING - MINIATURE

24.1 The Miniature Road Racing class or `Bucket Racing’ as it is also known, shall be
deemed to include solo motorcycles and sidecars.

24.2 Motorcycles Technical:

24.2.1 Solo motorcycles shall have two engine capacity classes:
F4 2 stroke 55-100cc
2 stroke 55-125cc air cooled
4 stroke 55-150cc
F5 2 stroke 0-50cc
4 stroke 0-100cc air cooled

24.2.2 Sidecars shall have one engine capacity class:
2 stroke 55-100cc
2 stroke 55-125cc air cooled
4 stroke 55-150cc

24.2.3 The maximum capacity for rebored engines shall be:
F4 2 stroke 55-100cc - 104cc
2 stroke 55-125cc air cooled - 130.5cc
4 stroke 55-150cc – 158.09cc
F5 2 stroke 0-50cc - 53cc
4 stroke 0-100cc - 104cc

Definitive I Think.

I have been thinking for a while on someway that this rule is not so clear cut.....

If a forza non race bike comes out with a 155cc engine its not legal to race it as it started out life larger then the required 150cc however if it was a 150cc it could be modified to a 155cc.

Now on that same rational you shouldnt be allowed to destroke a 185cc engine or fit a smaller barrel to a 150cc 2stroke engine because it started life out as a 185cc etc....

At the moment the "clear ruling" is that I could de-stroke a 185cc engine to 150cc then bore that to 158cc so technically I could take the 155cc engine put a 125cc barrel on it then do a mod and take it out to 155cc??

[koba]

One could sit and worry about such things, or one could just buy a legal bike.

[sidwyz]

I have been thinking for a while on someway that this rule is not so clear cut.....

If a forza non race bike comes out with a 155cc engine its not legal to race it as it started out life larger then the required 150cc however if it was a 150cc it could be modified to a 155cc.

Now on that same rational you shouldnt be allowed to destroke a 185cc engine or fit a smaller barrel to a 150cc 2stroke engine because it started life out as a 185cc etc....

At the moment the "clear ruling" is that I could de-stroke a 185cc engine to 150cc then bore that to 158cc so technically I could take the 155cc engine put a 125cc barrel on it then do a mod and take it out to 155cc??

Rules will always be open to interpretation.
But I think your over-thinking it.

As for the taking a 185cc engine to 150cc then boring it to 158cc. that is getting hairy.
As I understand it the 8 odd cc are there to allow an engine to be rebored not neccesarily the class capacity limit. That is 150cc.
I can see your line of thinking.
People will always exploit the rules to the very edge of legal. And fair enough too.

I would be interested to know what capacity people that have destroked/debored engines have taken them down to. the class capacity limits or the limits for a rebored engine?

These are just my views and are by no means THE RULES. best check with the appropriate authorities. :niceone:

[CHOPPA]

Rules will always be open to interpretation.
But I think your over-thinking it.

As for the taking a 185cc engine to 150cc then boring it to 158cc. that is getting hairy.
As I understand it the 8 odd cc are there to allow an engine to be rebored not neccesarily the class capacity limit. That is 150cc.
I can see your line of thinking.
People will always exploit the rules to the very edge of legal. And fair enough too.

I would be interested to know what capacity people that have destroked/debored engines have taken them down to. the class capacity limits or the limits for a rebored engine?

These are just my views and are by no means THE RULES. best check with the appropriate authorities. :niceone:

I think thats why MNZ let this class be self policed because the rules are so open to interpretation really its whoever has been racing the longest would be right....

The point im making is that it looked like the 155ho engine could have been a viable option for a relatively cheap plug and play engine option that could be mildly competitive and also there is a guy thats already out there racing one so I dont think its fair that an engine be illegal on a small technicality thats not across the board

[CHOPPA]

One could sit and worry about such things, or one could just buy a legal bike.

What is a legal bike?

Is a bike that is destroked or has a smaller displacement then standard not legal?

[koba]

What is a legal bike?

Is a bike that is destroked or has a smaller displacement then standard not legal?

A legal bike is defined in the rules.

There is nothing in the rules to exclude such an engine thus making it legal (IMO).

I would say reducing a larger engine to 150-158cc would be shaky ground and open to protest, 150 or less seems perfectly legit to me.

[fi5hy]

I know the rest of the country gets a bit anal on the rules and regs the only problem I see is when there's tupperware up for grabs like the GP. If it was up to me you ride what you bring and if you're light years faster than the rest we break your knee caps.:yes: The sport is fun for new riders to old has-beens (like me)yes we have a fast bunch of guys riding hard but we are all friends and enjoy what we have. As Bayden would say (and does) you're only a cheat when you're caught. Build it race it enjoy it if you think that a title of GP champ is you then make it legal.

[Tard]

....we break your knee caps.:yes:

Hahaha, one of mine's been broken already, so sweet :bleh:

[CHOPPA]

I know the rest of the country gets a bit anal on the rules and regs the only problem I see is when there's tupperware up for grabs like the GP. If it was up to me you ride what you bring and if you're light years faster than the rest we break your knee caps.:yes: The sport is fun for new riders to old has-beens (like me)yes we have a fast bunch of guys riding hard but we are all friends and enjoy what we have. As Bayden would say (and does) you're only a cheat when you're caught. Build it race it enjoy it if you think that a title of GP champ is you then make it legal.

That is a good attitude :yes:

[nudemetalz]

In 4 years i will hopefully be a qualified mechanical engineer and work will begin on my koba beating perfect bucket engine.

Perhaps a tandem twin 100 two stroke.
Or a v twin.
or something diesel and turbo.


Watch your back sir.

A good friend of mine (and a real 2-stroke guru) down in ChCh back in the early 90's got a Suzuki T90 crankcase and machined it to accept two RG50 barrels but in a V-configuration.
One of those very promising ideas but didn't get finished. Unfortunately it was lost in Trevor Pierce's shop fire.

That would have been quite a machine.

[F5 Dave]

Trust me I have looked at a spare set of RG cases & wondered if I could machine/bolt up an additional crankcase section to an RG.

But the T engine is antiquated, big heavy & only 5 speed. Bird made a GT125 with 2 water cooled MB50 cylinders. Crazyman on here has that still.

[Buckets4Me]

look what i saw at the 2 hour
251092

[CHOPPA]

look what i saw at the 2 hour
251092

Howd it go? looks cool!

[Pumba]

Bike No. 26, Riders - Ivan Smith, Mark Addison, Bike - FMX140, Qualified 21st with a 34.23sec lap, Finished 13th on 199 Laps

So not to bad.

During the race I can remember passing them a few times, but that is about it. I did note that during practice on Saturday that in a straight line it seemed to have comparable pace to a standard FXR, but was just to slow through the corners to be much of a worry.

[Drew]

So has 14th through last place protest the cheats on their competition bike?

[Henk]

Nope and unless they start doing well, pissing people off or causing accidents with the slightly odd lines / low corner speeds it isn't likely. However if anyone ever does protest will be pretty open and shut case. Be an arse to go to the expense and hassle of sourcing and setting up to be told to sod off at some stage when for the same amount of coin and sweat you could keep it legal and probably be more competitive.

[Pumba]

I think JC is quite honest about his thoughts on the subject. Yea it is not legal, but if we have room on the grid and they are not dangerous he will happily take there money

[Drew]

Nope and unless they start doing well,So they're not fast enough to be cheating?
pissing people off or causing accidents with the slightly odd lines / low corner speeds it isn't likely.And nice guys shouldn't be protested?
However if anyone ever does protest will be pretty open and shut case. Be an arse to go to the expense and hassle of sourcing and setting up to be told to sod off at some stage when for the same amount of coin and sweat you could keep it legal and probably be more competitive.

I'm really trying to fit in with the bucket scene, but it's hard. Most of the conversation I've read only goes four or five posts on here before someone starts talking about rules and shit. Yet no one was worried about a bike that doesn't fit the brief at the endurance race.

I fully condone this bike running by the way.

[Henk]

Things are pretty relaxed up here And to be honest there may be one or two bikes in Ak that fall outside the rules but no one takes it that seriously that a protest is likely, mostly the attitude is "fuck it one more bike on the grid can't be a bad thing"
Having said that if someone was to roll up with a bike that was obviously outside the rules and a complete weapon, or let's say an off the shelf racer like the one in the OP turned up and was damned fast the most likely outcome is that someone in an official capacity would say
"OI mate, you're taking the piss a bit here, get it legal or go away"

Down in the mid pack where I lurk people are pretty casual but when the guys running at the front have gone to a lot of time and effort to get the machinery competitive it's only fair that the rules are taken into account.

At the end of the day most of us are in it for shits and giggles and a word to the wise usually goes a fair way, if anyone really causes problems we have ways of dealing with it but hasn't been necessary in the 3 years I've been playing. Mind you I'm mostly in it for the good cunts you meet and the beer.

[CHOPPA]

Things are pretty relaxed up here And to be honest there may be one or two bikes in Ak that fall outside the rules but no one takes it that seriously that a protest is likely, mostly the attitude is "fuck it one more bike on the grid can't be a bad thing"
Having said that if someone was to roll up with a bike that was obviously outside the rules and a complete weapon, or let's say an off the shelf racer like the one in the OP turned up and was damned fast the most likely outcome is that someone in an official capacity would say
"OI mate, you're taking the piss a bit here, get it legal or go away"

Down in the mid pack where I lurk people are pretty casual but when the guys running at the front have gone to a lot of time and effort to get the machinery competitive it's only fair that the rules are taken into account.

At the end of the day most of us are in it for shits and giggles and a word to the wise usually goes a fair way, if anyone really causes problems we have ways of dealing with it but hasn't been necessary in the 3 years I've been playing. Mind you I'm mostly in it for the good cunts you meet and the beer.

Thats how it seems to me from what I have seen, its only on forums when people are bored that its a problem. Throw a couple of wind up merchants in the mix and wallah!

[Henk]

Throw a couple of wind up merchants in the mix and wallah!

that's voila you ignorant young oik

[Kickaha]

If it isn't a MNZ permitted meeting I couldn't see a problem, if it was and you knowingly let bikes that aren't legal for that class into the mix and something turns to custard I wouldn't want to be the organiser

[koba]

This isn't dead yet?

Thought I would clarify my thoughts on it, not that they really matter.

It ain't legal. We have bikes down here like that, it's not about exclusion and I'm sure most people would be happy to have people along to most events.
I'm not worried, the more the merrier as far as I'm concerned...

BUT it is important that everyone is well aware that such a bike doesn't comply with the rules.

It would be quite arse to shell out one's hard-earned for one under the impression that it is a Bucket when it actually ain't.

[koba]

I'm really trying to fit in with the bucket scene, but it's hard. Most of the conversation I've read only goes four or five posts on here before someone starts talking about rules and shit. Yet no one was worried about a bike that doesn't fit the brief at the endurance race.


It reads differently on the net to different people.

If I read it with an outsiders view it all looks a bit anorak silly.
I think most of us heavier users are on here because we would rather discuss bucket rules than watch the shit that passes for telly these days.

Remember most of us actually know each other too so the tone can appear different to how it really is between different people.
Added to that there is an diverse and odd gamut of humour sense.


Henk's a real wanker tho and he hardly ever speaks sense....

[Henk]

Henk's a real wanker tho and he hardly ever speaks sense....

My wife agrees.

By the way I have an idea for the GP side bet, you bring two shots, I'll bring two, we mix em up and split. I have your kaitoke side bet sorted, one of the guys at work told me that rat poison isn't toxic if you soak in rum for two weeks. Works for me.

[koba]

My wife agrees.

By the way I have an idea for the GP side bet, you bring two shots, I'll bring two, we mix em up and split. I have your kaitoke side bet sorted, one of the guys at work told me that rat poison isn't toxic if you soak in rum for two weeks. Works for me.

I like the first bit, great idea. Agreed.

As for the Rat Poison, not so keen. I think we should agree at this point not to go down that path!


"Jar a brake fluid, handful of raisins, set out in the sun for a few days to ferment. Filtered through some old stale bread, pretty good kick"

[Henk]

I'll go with your points one and two, but dispute point three. Brake fluid tastes awful.

[koba]

I'll go with your points one and two, but dispute point three. Brake fluid tastes awful.

Yeah, it does but I'm sure the raisins mellow it out a bit!

[TZ350]

think most of us heavier users are on here because we would rather discuss bucket rules than watch the shit that passes for telly these days.

For sure .......

[Moooools]

Not enough controversy on this thread.

Is this head legal or illegal? Assuming the rest of the engine you are adding it to is already legal. And that you don't use the 170cc barrel.

http://store.moto-scoot.net/172cc-Big-Bore-4-valve-Head-for-YX160-Motor-Only-1123.htm

I say legal.

[koba]

Not enough controversy on this thread.

Is this head legal or illegal? Assuming the rest of the engine you are adding it to is already legal. And that you don't use the 170cc barrel.

http://store.moto-scoot.net/172cc-Big-Bore-4-valve-Head-for-YX160-Motor-Only-1123.htm

I say legal.

I'ts fucked anyway, some idiot has drilled four holes in it!

[gav]

Oh dear, it's back on Trade Me, and they still insist in using bucket racing in the advert.
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=415534303

[jasonu]

Oh dear, it's back on Trade Me, and they still insist in using bucket racing in the advert.
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=415534303

Pepper his listing with some 'appropriate' questions...

[koba]

Pepper his listing with some 'appropriate' questions...

Fuckit, I just told him.

It really pisses me off when people knowingly and willfully miss-represent items for sale.

Sure, if he had said something like "While not currently permitted in the rules for F4/Bucket racing, this bike is generally allowed to race at the discretion of the organisers".

If the guy was serious he could even look at trying to sort a sub-class and legitimate rules for them. It would probably require too much brain activity though.

[gav]

Fuckit, I just told him.

It really pisses me off when people knowingly and willfully miss-represent items for sale.

Sure, if he had said something like "While not currently permitted in the rules for F4/Bucket racing, this bike is generally allowed to race at the discretion of the organisers".

If the guy was serious he could even look at trying to sort a sub-class and legitimate rules for them. It would probably require too much brain activity though.
I've had an email from the guy, I kinda feel sorry for him, as he has asked ""an organiser" and even though its an over size engine he has been told that its probably OK to race with F4 :confused: . It makes it bloody hard for F4 to be taken seriously when this sort of advice is bandied about.
I also suggested that he should try and arrange a seperate class for mini motards to be raced, on the same tracks and at the same meets but have the motards run in there own seperate class. Maybe his "helpful" organiser could try and get on the case with this too.
Run them as a seperate class but make it quite clear its not a bucket/F4 bike.
Meanwhile who ever this organiser is, he needs to be taken out back and smacked in the head with a 4x2 <_<

[TZ350]

Sent him an email and pointed out to Trademe that the add is delberatly misleading as by now he knows its not Bucket legal.

[mossy1200]

FXR155Z Motard is designed for the Kart Racing, like Bucket Racing around NZ

Seems to read that the bike was designed for a race class similar to nz bucket racing but he doesnt claim it has a race class here.

Would it be easier for someone whoes been emailing him to suggest that he includes although it has no class here yet it may be alowed to run pointless with F4 with your local clubs permission and that it has the equipment (bungs etc) to enable it to be on cart tracks with club events.

I would say anyone buys one and has fun will build a bike that can earn points or modify this comp pit bike to make it legal(maybe repower it or sleave it down etc).

[koba]

FXR155Z Motard is designed for the Kart Racing, like Bucket Racing around NZ

Seems to read that the bike was designed for a race class similar to nz bucket racing but he doesnt claim it has a race class here.

Would it be easier for someone whoes been emailing him to suggest that he includes although it has no class here yet it may be alowed to run pointless with F4 with your local clubs permission and that it has the equipment (bungs etc) to enable it to be on cart tracks with club events.

I would say anyone buys one and has fun will build a bike that can earn points or modify this comp pit bike to make it legal(maybe repower it or sleave it down etc).

In the subtitle it says "Bucket racer design, F4 150 class 15"

That and "FXR155Z Motard is designed for the Kart Racing, like Bucket Racing around NZ" are at the very least very ambiguous but I'd consider them misleading.
I would say the average buyer is likely to take it in good faith that they can race it and not look into it further.

Shit, I started on a much cheaper and pusier pitbike myself.

BUT, I knew it was at least shaky in the rules. (arguably more legitimate as a std CT110 clone but that's not the argument here)

I used it to start out and get on the track. I then got a bike that was kosher.

[koba]

I've had an email from the guy, I kinda feel sorry for him, as he has asked ""an organiser" and even though its an over size engine he has been told that its probably OK to race with F4 :confused: . It makes it bloody hard for F4 to be taken seriously when this sort of advice is bandied about.
I also suggested that he should try and arrange a seperate class for mini motards to be raced, on the same tracks and at the same meets but have the motards run in there own seperate class. Maybe his "helpful" organiser could try and get on the case with this too.
Run them as a seperate class but make it quite clear its not a bucket/F4 bike.
Meanwhile who ever this organiser is, he needs to be taken out back and smacked in the head with a 4x2 <_<

Lot's of things get lost in translation.
I would imagine it it quite likely "the organiser" may not have been aware the answer to a question that may have resembled "do you mind if I race my bike here?" was going to be used as reasoning to pass off a non-legal bike as a Bucket racer.

I'm not saying that's what has happened, It's speculation on my part but mentioned as a possible reason for "the organiser" being cited as giving it a green light.

Much like how some fools would take a 4x2 headhit comment as an actual threat of violence. That will usually only happens if distorting the situation suits some particular dickheads ends though.

Again, realising any outsiders reading this will probably miss-read me as an elitist snob, I will again say; I'm all for participation and I really don't mind something like this racing against me. (I'm not an organiser, just a racer who should be in the shed rather than behind a keyboard)

The problem in this situation is that someone buying it may be misled into believing they are purchasing a bike that is able to be run legitimately in F4.

There are a couple of similar bikes that run here with no complaints.

[koba]

My Message to the seller:



I suggest you point out the bike isn't actually legal as a bucket/F4 bike. On the basis of it being a competition based design. These kind of bikes being used at an event are at the discretion and good-will of an organiser. It's not fair to sell it without saying so. Rules can be found here: http://www.mnz.co.nz/download/2010_MoMS_Chapter_24_Road_Racing_Miniature.pdf also see chapter 10: http://www.mnz.co.nz/download/2011_MoMS_Chapter_10_Motorcycles_Technical.pdf

I forgot tom mention the size limit. There is argument on the basis of the overbore limit but I think that would be a very weak argument as it Starts at over 150cc.

His reply:



HI there,

Thanks for your suggestion, I will do further research with local organizers as well.

Regards,



Hopefully he isn't the type who will keep asking until he gets the answer he wants then pulls the "but he said..."

[mossy1200]

In the subtitle it says "Bucket racer design, F4 150 class 15"

That and "FXR155Z Motard is designed for the Kart Racing, like Bucket Racing around NZ" are at the very least very ambiguous but I'd consider them misleading.
I would say the average buyer is likely to take it in good faith that they can race it and not look into it further.

Shit, I started on a much cheaper and pusier pitbike myself.

BUT, I knew it was at least shaky in the rules. (arguably more legitimate as a std CT110 clone but that's not the argument here)

I used it to start out and get on the track. I then got a bike that was kosher.


yeah i never read the subtitle just the add itself.my bad

its a lot like people using the word leather and adding faux later in the add i guess.

do people pay 2 g for f4 bikes? Most that put that in would already have been in touch with their local clubs for advice on what to race i would think before spending those bucks.The trader will end up with "not fit for the purpose intended"small claim if someone buys one and turns up to race F4 and gets turned away.You would think the trader would remove F4 from the add for that reason alone.

[Henk]

Yes people pay around two grand for an F4 bike, for a race ready FXR that's about the average spend if you put it together yourself. My main objection to the add is that someone may buy one to find they have been burnt.
There are enough grey areas as it stands without these becoming an issue.
Don't think any amount of wittering on here will make a difference though, or emailing him. He must have coin tied up in whatever stock he has bought in and if he can't sell them as buckets he'll be pretty much stuck with them, unless someone brighter than me can see some other use for them. I guess you could hack around your back yard until the neighbors complain.

[koba]

yeah i never read the subtitle just the add itself.my bad

its a lot like people using the word leather and adding faux later in the add i guess.

do people pay 2 g for f4 bikes? Most that put that in would already have been in touch with their local clubs for advice on what to race i would think before spending those bucks.The trader will end up with "not fit for the purpose intended"small claim if someone buys one and turns up to race F4 and gets turned away.You would think the trader would remove F4 from the add for that reason alone.

I doubt anyone would actually get turned away.
As much as I sound like an anorak clad curmudgeon in this thread we (Bucket racers collectively if I may speak for the majority, if not all) are all about having a good time on the track.

Still, it would be a super-duper piss-off to drop a couple of K on one and find out it isn't legal.

People pay more than 2g for some F4 bikes, although you could have a very competitive one for that price it depends on how wisely/luckily one spends that money.

It is quite conceivable that someone would buy one and just turn up, Iv'e seen some quite good bikes turn up in the hands of a new owner who hasn't seen the track closer than youtube a few times. Thankfully they all seem to have liked it...

[mossy1200]

I doubt anyone would actually get turned away.
As much as I sound like an anorak clad curmudgeon in this thread we (Bucket racers collectively if I may speak for the majority, if not all) are all about having a good time on the track.

Still, it would be a super-duper piss-off to drop a couple of K on one and find out it isn't legal.

People pay more than 2g for some F4 bikes, although you could have a very competitive one for that price it depends on how wisely/luckily one spends that money.

It is quite conceivable that someone would buy one and just turn up, Iv'e seen some quite good bikes turn up in the hands of a new owner who hasn't seen the track closer than youtube a few times. Thankfully they all seem to have liked it...


I guess buyer is protected buy fair trading act ..Not fit for purpose intended..if clubs dont accept a bike advertised but the clubs would need to perhaps all carry the same opinion on if the bike is legit.

[Henk]

Pretty obvious that it isn't legal of you bother reading the rule book. But then most people don't. Legal protection fair trading / consumer guarantees act etc is even less understood by the majority, my guess is that you'd end up in small claims before you had any chance of a refund,and how many people bother with that.

[Pumba]

Personally I just find the whole thing amusing.

Especially this comment in the add.


**Latest Dyno Test Result: Faster than Std Suzuki FXR150!**

Shows an awesome grasp of language and huge understanding of what a dyno results actually mean in the real world:laugh:

[mossy1200]

Pretty obvious that it isn't legal of you bother reading the rule book. But then most people don't. Legal protection fair trading / consumer guarantees act etc is even less understood by the majority, my guess is that you'd end up in small claims before you had any chance of a refund,and how many people bother with that.


True some would some wouldnt but the second you do let one race you take away the option of smalls claims results as he can say it has been running already on x date at x location which will justify him doing no wrong.At least with a copy of the add and a letter from club stating which rules make this bike not able to run F4 and copy of the rules refund would be a sure thing.

I dont race buckets had a go and alot of fun but you need to make a stand either way about it to give people who buy one, uniformed of rules a out clause.remember its your sports future members your looking after as a existing racer wont buy one.

I am curious to see if anyone would pay 2k for a bike plus gear then just turn up to race.I would have thought a random turn up would have adapted a comuter from his garage rather than spend 2k.Would it be fair to say most new members turn up with bungs,lock wire etc because they have done resurch first or know someone whoes racing or have been to club open day etc.

[Henk]

Most complete newbies turn up and have a look and bludge a ride on a regulars bike at the end of the day to see what it's all about or get sucked in by mates.
I bought a cheap shitter to have a go after being loaned bikes on a couple of occasions over a period of years. Now I have more buckets than I like to think about, some are medium / long term loaners to get others addicted though.
The real shitter is when you lend someone a bike and they promptly go out and beat you, ungrateful talented bastards.

[Dutchee]

I've had an email from the guy, I kinda feel sorry for him, as he has asked ""an organiser" and even though its an over size engine he has been told that its probably OK to race with F4 :confused: . It makes it bloody hard for F4 to be taken seriously when this sort of advice is bandied about.
I also suggested that he should try and arrange a seperate class for mini motards to be raced, on the same tracks and at the same meets but have the motards run in there own seperate class. Maybe his "helpful" organiser could try and get on the case with this too.
Run them as a seperate class but make it quite clear its not a bucket/F4 bike.
Meanwhile who ever this organiser is, he needs to be taken out back and smacked in the head with a 4x2 <_<
The organiser probably thought it was some person who had a pit bike in his shed and wanting to have a go, not the fact that it was someone importing however many of them.

[gav]

Maybe, who knows, but I think he has had the bike checked out, and has been told that it would be OK to race. That doesnt make it a bucket racer or legal unfortunately, but also doesnt help anyone. And yeah Mossy, 2K is pretty cheap if it was competitive. You seen the CBR150's on there kitted out as race bikes? $3500 + for those, oh, and completely legal too :laugh:
The seller asked me if I was buying a bucket racer, told him I already had a LEGAL race bike. :niceone:
Had to laugh when he mentioned the engine was based on a KLX110, ummm, that motor has been around since the 1970's, Honda ST/CT 90.
I think trying to get a mini motard class going would be the best bet for him.

[koba]

True some would some wouldnt but the second you do let one race you take away the option of smalls claims results as he can say it has been running already on x date at x location which will justify him doing no wrong.At least with a copy of the add and a letter from club stating which rules make this bike not able to run F4 and copy of the rules refund would be a sure thing.

I dont race buckets had a go and alot of fun but you need to make a stand either way about it to give people who buy one, uniformed of rules a out clause.remember its your sports future members your looking after as a existing racer wont buy one.

I am curious to see if anyone would pay 2k for a bike plus gear then just turn up to race.I would have thought a random turn up would have adapted a comuter from his garage rather than spend 2k.Would it be fair to say most new members turn up with bungs,lock wire etc because they have done resurch first or know someone whoes racing or have been to club open day etc.

I'm not so sure it wouldn't result in a small claims win.

Either way no-one wins if a buyer is aggrieved. It's shithouse for everyone, including THE SELLER!!!

Maybe not 2K but more than a the few hundie people seem to think all buckets cost.
Some learn more than others before they buy too, a lot of current racers will have never read the rules.

[koba]

Also sadly it is quite OK by itself as a product without trying to hock it off as a bucket...

I'd quite like something like that If I was on the lookout for more toys.

[jasonu]

Most complete newbies turn up and have a look and bludge a ride on a regulars bike at the end of the day to see what it's all about or get sucked in by mates.
I bought a cheap shitter to have a go after being loaned bikes on a couple of occasions over a period of years. Now I have more buckets than I like to think about, some are medium / long term loaners to get others addicted though.
The real shitter is when you lend someone a bike and they promptly go out and beat you, ungrateful talented bastards.

And that is how it has (mostly) always worked.

Machines that don't fit the rules should NEVER be allowed to compete in an actual race on an official race day points or not, 'off the back of the grid' or from anywhere else. The race results and points awarded will be affected which could change the outcome of a season championship series. I would not even be comfortable with them being allowed to ride on practice days either.
If these machines are allowed in then that could open the door to other marginal machines in the future.
F4 is a formula class with rules so lets keep to them. :mad:

[CHOPPA]

Can it be sleeved down to race in Buckets?

[Moooools]

All right muppets. Easy solution:

Allow four stroke competition engines.
Increase capcity limit for four strokes to 160cc.

Promlem solved.
:shifty:

[CHOPPA]

At the end of the day Formula 4 is a 'RACE' class that 'RACES' bikes that are 'NON RACE BIKES' go to any small claims court with rules like that and you wont get anywhere.

I have already proved there is a loop hole for this bike to be eligible to race legally

[Drew]

Can it be sleeved down to race in Buckets?

No, but you can get a normal 125 pit bike motor and chuck the internals from the comp motor in it. Mount it back in the nice frame and you have a legal bike. Might cost an extra $100 though.

[jasonu]

I have already proved there is a loop hole for this bike to be eligible to race legally

What was that?

[Drew]

What was that?Dunno, but the scenario I proposed where the bits are put from that motor into a normal pit bike casings works.

All the parts of that motor are available for sale individually, and are not listed as competition parts. Perhaps that is the loop hole Sloan speaks of. If I can build my own motor to the exact specs, using non competition parts, surely this motor is legal despite being marketed as competition.

It aint just the motor being marketed competition you might say, the rest of the bike can be purchased in bits not so labelled also.

[Kickaha]

I have already proved there is a loop hole for this bike to be eligible to race legally
In what class? because it wouldn't be Buckets
The fact that it starts at 155cc means it isn't eligible

[jasonu]

Maybe someone should ask the MNZ for a decision or at least a clarification...

[Henk]

Doesn't need clarification

24.2.1 Solo motorcycles shall have two engine capacity classes:
F4 2 stroke 55-100cc
2 stroke 55-125cc air cooled
4 stroke 55-150cc
F5 2 stroke 0-50cc
4 stroke 0-100cc air cooled


24.2.3 The maximum capacity for rebored engines shall be:
F4 2 stroke 55-100cc - 104cc
2 stroke 55-125cc air cooled - 130.5cc
4 stroke 55-150cc – 158.09cc
F5 2 stroke 0-50cc - 53cc
4 stroke 0-100cc - 104cc

It starts at 155cc so falls outside the rules, simple really.

[Moooools]

Ignoring that it is a competition engine; what say that you bored it out .25 beforeracing it. Would thatmake it within the limits?

[RDjase]

What about this for F5..........................:laugh:

http://www.thewarehouse.co.nz/red/catalog/product/Green-Mini-Motorbike-with-2-Stroke-Engine-49cc?SKU=1546466

[gav]

Maybe someone should ask the MNZ for a decision or at least a clarification...
Hahaha, good luck with that. Have emailed Peter Ramage before about something else and he pointed at these pit bikes as an example. In his opinion the bike even if it measured 150cc isnt what the rules intended. He's old school and still thinks you should be buying an old shitter and modifying to suit, not buying a bike already to race, isnt in the spirit of the rules, lmao .... But thats just his personal opinion. Trying to get official clarification he suggests self policing ... :confused: :Police: <_<

So anyway if the bike was offered with a 150cc engine where do you think it would fit?

Note: See he has slightly altered the wording, now suggesting it has potential for Bucket racing.

[bucketracer]

Note: See he has slightly altered the wording, now suggesting it has potential for Bucket racing.

252112

It probably does have potential, its 155cc, and F4 4-Stroke allows re boring to 159cc (159?), so the easy answer to make it legal is to re bore it.

And recently we had Nathanials purpose built 50cc Derbi race bike on here and that was claimed to be legal because it was based on a road legal engine.

The argument went, so long as the motor is derived from a road going unit, everything else can be as purpose built race bike as you like, or $$$$ allow.

So I guess if the Pitsters engine is also used in road going chopper bikes or whatever then its legal ... :sick:

[Tard]

Doesn't need clarification

24.2.1 Solo motorcycles shall have two engine capacity classes:
4 stroke 55-150cc

I'm just happy mine is 150cc & 100% within the rules - had lights & everything :niceone: I don't think I could live with myself racing illegally :Police::bleh:

252113

[gav]

Yeah well, if a Metrakit which is a purpose built competition race bike can somehow be considered legal because it uses a modified street bike engine, then it's no wonder when pit bikes with over size engines can somehow be considered legal in some people's eyes.

I heard recently that MNZ are to allow F4 bikes to compete with 150 Streetstocks in a support class for the 250 Prolite class at the Nationals.
So thats F4, 150 S/S, 250 Prolites and maybe the 180cc Global Motorsports Yamaha R125's all running on track at the same time. :eek:
Thats going to be one big field of bikes !

[Henk]

I heard recently that MNZ are to allow F4 bikes to compete with 150 Streetstocks in a support class for the 250 Prolite class at the Nationals.
So thats F4, 150 S/S, 250 Prolites and maybe the 180cc Global Motorsports Yamaha R125's all running on track at the same time. :eek:
Thats going to be one big field of bikes !

they've run prolite ss and F4 together at HD at AMCC club meets, wasn't a problem, what was scary was being on an F4 bike during the newbie look laps at the beginning of the day on track with liter bikes and the like.

[CHOPPA]

Here you go..... For the second time

I have been told there are plenty of people running engines in Bucket racing that are sleeved down so the capacity will fit within the class.

You get the 155 engine and sleeve it down to 150cc then when it needs a hone out for 'maintenance' reasons you bore it out to 155.

[Henk]

Here you go..... For the second time

I have been told there are plenty of people running engines in Bucket racing that are sleeved down so the capacity will fit within the class.

You get the 155 engine and sleeve it down to 150cc then when it needs a hone out for 'maintenance' reasons you bore it out to 155.

Got any examples? I'm guessing you have been told wrong.
I've heard of a few two stroke builds that have odd things done to get under the 100cc water cooled Capacity limit but all of those have started with engines and components that were legal in the first place.

[CHOPPA]

Got any examples? I'm guessing you have been told wrong.
I've heard of a few two stroke builds that have odd things done to get under the 100cc water cooled Capacity limit but all of those have started with engines and components that were legal in the first place.

RG150 with RG400 barrel was one that I was told but several types of builds along those lines.

[Henk]

RG150 with RG400 barrel was one that I was told but several types of builds along those lines.

Pretty much what I thought, started with legal bits.

[gav]

Here you go..... For the second time

I have been told there are plenty of people running engines in Bucket racing that are sleeved down so the capacity will fit within the class.

You get the 155 engine and sleeve it down to 150cc then when it needs a hone out for 'maintenance' reasons you bore it out to 155.

Hahaha, thats gonna be a great sales pitch isnt it? Yep your FXR155Z is legal, but first you need to modify/replace the cylinder and piston before you can race it cos its oversize. But its faster than a standard FXR150 too apparently on a dyno. Shame very few people race a standard FXR150 and its pretty easy and cheap to get a few more hp out of the fixxer. Not too sure the pitster has much more to offer to be honest.

Henk, how many ran at HD? The same classes ran here at King of Ruapuna, 39 riders fronted for first practice session! One race was red flagged twice., and not helped when the NZ Prolite champ crashed in the entry to the dipper and left his bike bleeding to death. :no:

[F5 Dave]

What about this for F5..........................:laugh:

http://www.thewarehouse.co.nz/red/catalog/product/Green-Mini-Motorbike-with-2-Stroke-Engine-49cc?SKU=1546466

Well they do say 'it isn't a toy'.


- Therefore it is a competition bike & we must BURN IT.:crazy:


PS good luck with those tyres.

[speedpro]

they've run prolite ss and F4 together at HD at AMCC club meets, wasn't a problem, what was scary was being on an F4 bike during the newbie look laps at the beginning of the day on track with liter bikes and the like.

You would have enjoyed "Clubmans" at Wanganui on Boxing Day riding a bucket. Diving under 1000cc bikes into the esses to have them blast past coming up to "flower garden" and overshoot, and then blast past over the start finish etc etc. More than one had "stern" words with me after a race.

[jasonu]

More than one had "stern" words with me after a race.

I hope you told them to get fucked.

[F5 Dave]

mike you dick, they were riding their real racebikes & you were getting in their way of real racing.:oi-grr: Clearly they were much faster than you, but you kept holding them up lap after lap. . . .um. . . .:eek5:

I enjoyed watching those races, shit was a few years back now.

[CHOPPA]

Pretty much what I thought, started with legal bits.

What class is a RGV150 or RG400 legal for??? The RG400 would make a great bucket haha


Hahaha, thats gonna be a great sales pitch isnt it? Yep your FXR155Z is legal, but first you need to modify/replace the cylinder and piston before you can race it cos its oversize. But its faster than a standard FXR150 too apparently on a dyno. Shame very few people race a standard FXR150 and its pretty easy and cheap to get a few more hp out of the fixxer. Not too sure the pitster has much more to offer to be honest.

Henk, how many ran at HD? The same classes ran here at King of Ruapuna, 39 riders fronted for first practice session! One race was red flagged twice., and not helped when the NZ Prolite champ crashed in the entry to the dipper and left his bike bleeding to death. :no:

They could sell it to you 'S/H' with the modifications already done to it......

[F5 Dave]

What class is a RGV150 or RG400 legal for??? The RG400 would make a great bucket haha



They could sell it to you 'S/H' with the modifications already done to it......

Well the RG400 is a non competition bike & 1 cylinder is 99cc. Several have been used in the past grafted onto Kawi 100s etc.


Needless to say they don't just bolt on,

[jasonu]

Well the RG400 is a non competition bike & 1 cylinder is 99cc. Several have been used in the past grafted onto Kawi 100s etc.


Needless to say they don't just bolt on,

Like this one. KE125 bottom end with ONE RG400 cylinder.
Both non competition bikes.
Built it in an afternoon over a few beers.

[CHOPPA]

Well the RG400 is a non competition bike & 1 cylinder is 99cc. Several have been used in the past grafted onto Kawi 100s etc.


Needless to say they don't just bolt on,

So on that basis with the modifications to the 155 that I have suggested then it would be legal as that engine comes out in a entry level non competition pit bike

[CHOPPA]

No wonder MNZ dont wont anything to do with these rules the loop holes and interpretation leave them wide open

[gav]

No wonder MNZ dont wont anything to do with these rules the loop holes and interpretation leave them wide open
Yep, got it in one!!
Sure, the bike could be OK to race once it was modified to suit the rules, obviously. But that wasnt how this thread started out. Remember the discussion suggested if the bike was legal to race as is. Pretty much any bike can be modified to suit the rules.
Even a full blown 125GP bike is a potential bucket racer, slot in an appropriate motor that complies with the rules, and away you go.

[TZ350]

252209

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=415534303

I have talked with this guy, English is not his first language but his ideas sound pretty reasonable, he has had one on JC's dyno, 15+ rwhp apparently.

He also tells me the engine is used in road bikes, so that makes it a sports engine suitable for racing, sounds a bit like the way the Aprilia AM6 engine is used. The only real sticking point is the 155cc, I guess the rule benders amongst us will find a way around that, rule bending its a Bucket tradition.

I think he is also planning on nyloning them up so they are track ready. He is planning on bringing one down to display at the next Mt Welly Bucket meet.

Its the next step up from buying a Loncin. He is a good guy who will listen to constructive suggestions and is trying to market something that meets the rules as he gets to understand them so he is worth giving a fair hearing.

PS Av and Hayden were given a CBR125 by Honda for the 2 hour, promising but not that competitive.

Buckets must be going some where when people start pitching bikes directly to Bucketracers.

[CHOPPA]

252209

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=415534303

I have talked with this guy, English is not his first language but his ideas sound pretty reasonable, he has had one on JC's dyno, 15+ rwhp apparently.

He also tells me the engine is used in road bikes, so that makes it a sports engine suitable for racing, sounds a bit like the way the Aprilia AM6 engine is used. The only real sticking point is the 155cc, I guess the rule benders amongst us will find a way around that, rule bending its a Bucket tradition.

I think he is also planning on nyloning them up so they are track ready. He is planning on bringing one down to display at the next Mt Welly Bucket meet.

Its the next step up from buying a Loncin. He is a good guy who will listen to constructive suggestions and is trying to market something that meets the rules as he gets to understand them so he is worth giving a fair hearing.

PS Av and Hayden were given a CBR125 by Honda for the 2 hour, promising but not that competitive.

Buckets must be going some where when people start pitching bikes directly to Bucketracers.


Its a great class it just has to drop the name BUCKET

[Henk]

Its a great class it just has to drop the name BUCKET

Would you prefer the term "miniature road racing" as per MNZ? Or F4 F5?

When I tell people I race an F4 bike I have to then explain it all including the capacity limits in the context of buckets anyway. When I tell them I race a bucket most people know what I mean. It's not the name, it's the perception that some people have of buckets from days long past that seems to cause the issue and anyone that has been to a meet in the last five years or so doesn't hold the view that they are piles of crap held together with wire and tape as far as I can tell.

To be honest the names they have given to the "serious" race classes in the last couple of years confuse the shit out of me. F1, F2, F3 I could understand. All this superprolighttwins stuff has me scratching my head.
Although the great unwashed non motorcycling public out there seems to think that F5 should be faster than every capacity class with a smaller number.

[Kickaha]

it just has to drop the name BUCKET
Dumbest idea yet, but tends to be suggested by all the newbies

[Dutchee]

I had a good argument with mum about what Henk and I get up to on the track. I told we ride buckets, so she asked someone what they were and had sidecars explained to her. Of course the person who explained what buckets were knew more than I do about what sort of bikes we ride. What would I know, I'm only riding a bucket, not actually talking about them.

I'm sure mum still thinks we race/ride sidecars and has never looked at the photos I've sent links of.

If I told her I ride F4/F5, she'd probably suspect we'd gone to the dark side and started racing cars. Maybe we should drag her down there one day, least I could put my helmet on and head out to the track when she got to be too much lol

[CHOPPA]

Id be happy to explain I race Miniature road race. Its road racing on little bikes on kart tracks rather then i do bucket racing, its riding buckets of shit

[jasonu]

252209

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=415534303



He also tells me the engine is used in road bikes, so that makes it a sports engine suitable for racing, sounds a bit like the way the Aprilia AM6 engine is used. The only real sticking point is the 155cc, I guess the rule benders amongst us will find a way around that, rule bending its a Bucket tradition.



.

If this is true and he can prove it then all that needs to be done is a resleve to 150 and away you go. No 'rule bending' required.

[Yow Ling]

Id be happy to explain I race Miniature road race. Its road racing on little bikes on kart tracks rather then i do bucket racing, its riding buckets of shit

That is only true up north, down here its " road racing on little bikes on racetracks like Ruapuna , Levels and street circuits like Nelson Greymouth and Methven. We not allowed near a Kart Track

[Kickaha]

Id be happy to explain I race Miniature road race. Its road racing on little bikes on kart tracks rather then i do bucket racing, its riding buckets of shit

So it's about image more than reality then, because people most can't get over the negativity associated with Buckets (Buckets of shit) that hasn't been true for a considerable time, "Buckets" have a longer history in NZ than the poxy Superbikes :bleh:

[CHOPPA]

So it's about image more than reality then, because people most can't get over the negativity associated with Buckets (Buckets of shit) that hasn't been true for a considerable time, "Buckets" have a longer history in NZ than the poxy Superbikes :bleh:

It was actually in reply to someones comment about sponsors for Bucket racing but yes I agree image is everything!

[Kickaha]

It was actually in reply to someones comment about sponsors for Bucket racing but yes I agree image is everything!

It isn't compulsory to use the word Bucket, you could use F4, F5 (depending on your class)or Miniature road racing, of course most people wouldn't know what you're talking about until you add the word Bucket

[F5 Dave]

What about this for F5..........................:laugh:

http://www.thewarehouse.co.nz/red/catalog/product/Green-Mini-Motorbike-with-2-Stroke-Engine-49cc?SKU=1546466

and almost on cue:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/6104978/Double-bike-dud-for-Southland-family

so good luck finishing a 20 lapper.



It amazes me People say that Chinese stuff will get better like the Japanese did. There are fundamental differences in the culture & Japanese respect engineering. Have to have larger overseas companies driving the manufacture or shit will stay shit.

[RDjase]

and almost on cue:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/6104978/Double-bike-dud-for-Southland-family

so good luck finishing a 20 lapper.



It amazes me People say that Chinese stuff will get better like the Japanese did. There are fundamental differences in the culture & Japanese respect engineering. Have to have larger overseas companies driving the manufacture or shit will stay shit.

I think the last lot of shit bikes had leaky fuel tanks and got recalled


I bought a $50 pocket bike, same looking engine, it was hard to push and it was really tight and the front sprocket didnt want to turn, Took the primary/internal chain cover off and it just had a few blobs of cheap rock hard grease in it and the cover was loading up the bearings. made a 0.5mm gasket, put a small amount of oil in to lube the chain asnd the sprocket turned nicly, well as nice as chinese bearings do.
All the bolt were made of cheap bolts and as strong as hard cheese and heaps of threads came out while working on it.

Cheap Nasty Shit !

It did go ok after hours of fucking with it, Sold it for $60

1st (and only) bike to make a profit from :facepalm:

[goivy26]

Just to let everyone know, my bike is not illegal.

It conforms to the rules in everyway, it is not competion based, the frame is based on a klx110, the engine is based on one of the oldest jap motors around, the honda monkey (and many others), it is 140cc and puts out less than 12hp, its a fun dirt bike not a CRF150R or similar.

So anyone who wants to protest it feel free but be sure you do your homework.

By the way the 2hr was only my 2nd bucket race maybe I should get the 22hp 152cc kit and some suspension that is better than the pogo stick standard stuff I have now and then you would have somthing to moan about (and even then it would still be legal!!).

So to all you haters of the mighty team Mo-Hard mini motard, "if you cant handle the jandle put on some sneakers".

Ivy Smith and Mark Addison
Team Mo-Hard

[richban]

Just to let everyone know, my bike is not illegal.

It conforms to the rules in everyway, it is not competion based, the frame is based on a klx110, the engine is based on one of the oldest jap motors around, the honda monkey (and many others), it is 140cc and puts out less than 12hp, its a fun dirt bike not a CRF150R or similar.

So anyone who wants to protest it feel free but be sure you do your homework.

By the way the 2hr was only my 2nd bucket race maybe I should get the 22hp 152cc kit and some suspension that is better than the pogo stick standard stuff I have now and then you would have somthing to moan about (and even then it would still be legal!!).

So to all you haters of the mighty team Mo-Hard mini motard, "if you cant handle the jandle put on some sneakers".

Ivy Smith and Mark Addison
Team Mo-Hard



So will you be wanting to race at the GP in March? Or is this for kart tracks only?

[goivy26]

So will you be wanting to race at the GP in March? Or is this for kart tracks only?

Keen as mustard but might have to put on a 23 tooth rear sprocket!!! just out of interest what sort of hp do you guys get out of your FXR's ?

Ivy

[Yow Ling]

Keen as mustard but might have to put on a 23 tooth rear sprocket!!! just out of interest what sort of hp do you guys get out of your FXR's ?

Ivy

20 is easy, gets harder from there

[Bert]

Just to let everyone know, my bike is not illegal.

It conforms to the rules in everyway, it is not competion based, the frame is based on a klx110, the engine is based on one of the oldest jap motors around, the honda monkey (and many others), it is 140cc and puts out less than 12hp, its a fun dirt bike not a CRF150R or similar.

So anyone who wants to protest it feel free but be sure you do your homework.

By the way the 2hr was only my 2nd bucket race maybe I should get the 22hp 152cc kit and some suspension that is better than the pogo stick standard stuff I have now and then you would have somthing to moan about (and even then it would still be legal!!).

So to all you haters of the mighty team Mo-Hard mini motard, "if you cant handle the jandle put on some sneakers".

Ivy Smith and Mark Addison
Team Mo-Hard

What strikes me is your interesting perceptive and style of communication Team-Mo-Hard.

I guess that many of the people that have posted on this thread and others like this, are & have been around the sport for a large number of years (some have also done considerable work to keep the class's alive and the tracks available to race on) they are actually trying help to point you in the right direction.
While your current motor is not a Daytona or Japanese "performance" engine (I've seen new performance heads that know one would be able to tell the difference), I'm guessing that in the back of many minds is the burning question; how long will it be until these "performance" also start appearing (not calling you a cheat; but others will come along).
Somewhere along the lines, organisers may put a stop to this type of machinery as it may not meet the requirement/agreement made with track owners (perception maybe all it takes to loose track access).

While the bike may meet the rules does it meet the sprite of the class?

At club level; sure, more the merrier maybe; GP & BOB (i might be out of line here) but sorry nope, I would have thought it would actually be dangerous having a mini-motard on the track (different lines and different & style..... lots of things... rider height, lean angles, braking points the list gos on in my mind).

I think its cool that you have an interest in a sport that offers so much (The only real "build your own" formula classes still running in nz; great tight racing & most of all a great bunch of people always willing to help you out and help you get dr##K) thus far everyone has been trying to help, maybe the middle finger isn't the solution here (some of these people actually run and have control over meetings)..
p.s. I wear sandles; best of both worlds....;);)

[wildman]

I love these forums the're both entertaining and informative and i've got an easy solution to this whole subject of what is legal and what is not. SELL THE BIKE AND GET A SIDECAR, so much more fun especially when you can scare the shit out of others with it. You can't get a factory built one with a race engine so there would be no arguement over legality and the' re a true build your own formula where no one would even think of cheating. Now where did i put that RM motor from my go-kart.

[jasonu]

You can't get a factory built one with a race engine so there would be no arguement over legality and the' re a true build your own formula where no one would even think of cheating. Now where did i put that RM motor from my go-kart.

Wrong mate. The non comp engine rule covers ALL Bucket classes.
If it didn't then don't you think there would already be hundreds of CRF150R powered outfits?
You new guys need to PROPERLY read the rules and ask questions before you go out and possibly buy illegal or even marginal machines.

[Buckets4Me]

You can't get a factory built one with a race engine so there would be no arguement over legality and the' re a true build your own formula where no one would even think of cheating. Now where did i put that RM motor from my go-kart.

the Rm motor is out sorry cant use that :pinch:


no one is stoping him racing his mini motard
but I do think he should build a sidecar (Has to be a non competitive engine. So no motorcross or race engines. Dosent matter what bike he uses just the engine)

[Yow Ling]

the Rm motor is out sorry cant use that :pinch:


no one is stoping him racing his mini motard
but I do think he should build a sidecar (Has to be a non competitive engine. So no motorcross or race engines. Dosent matter what bike he uses just the engine)

If everyone had non competitive engines how could anybody win?
Maybe time to re read that rule

[jasonu]

If everyone had non competitive engines how could anybody win?
Maybe time to re read that rule

Some would be more 'non competitive' than others...

[wildman]

Wrong mate. The non comp engine rule covers ALL Bucket classes.
If it didn't then don't you think there would already be hundreds of CRF150R powered outfits?
You new guys need to PROPERLY read the rules and ask questions before you go out and possibly buy illegal or even marginal machines.

Sorry Jasonu it was three in the morning and i couldn't sleep, was being sarcastic. i think the non competition engine rule is a good one .Having spent thirty odd years running go-karts i know how out of hand things can get and i also remember when the tf100 was the top motor for a bucket sidecar. Bring back the good old days.

[jasonu]

Sorry Jasonu it was three in the morning and i couldn't sleep, was being sarcastic. i think the non competition engine rule is a good one .Having spent thirty odd years running go-karts i know how out of hand things can get and i also remember when the tf100 was the top motor for a bucket sidecar. Bring back the good old days.

No worries mate.
Not sure about bringing back the old days though. I like the way Buckets has progressed in the 20+ years I have been involved.

[Drew]

No worries mate.
Not sure about bringing back the old days though. I like the way Buckets has progressed in the 20+ years I have been involved.I liked the way my bucket progressed in the three days it took to build it. Now if only I could be bothered tuning and using it.

[F5 Dave]

yeah see the WT thread:innocent:

[Buckets4Me]

If everyone had non competitive engines how could anybody win?
Maybe time to re read that rule

Engines must be derived from non-competition motorcycles. ok ok but the RM is still out


CHAPTER 24

24 ROAD RACING - MINIATURE

24-1 The Miniature Road Racing class or `Bucket Racing’ as it is also known, shall be deemed
to include solo motorcycles and sidecars.

24-2 Motorcycles Technical:

24-2-1 Solo motorcycles shall have two engine capacity classes:
F4 2 stroke 55-100cc
2 stroke 55-125cc air cooled
4 stroke 55-150cc
F5 2 stroke 0-50cc
4 stroke 0-100cc air cooled

24-2-2 Sidecars shall have one engine capacity class:
2 stroke 55-100cc
2 stroke 55-125cc air cooled
4 stroke 55-150cc

24-2-3 The maximum capacity for rebored engines shall be:
F4 2 stroke 55-100cc - 104cc
2 stroke 55-125cc air cooled - 130.5cc
4 stroke 55-150cc – 158.09cc
F5 2 stroke 0-50cc - 53cc
4 stroke 0-100cc - 104cc

24-2-4 Engines must be derived from non-competition motorcycles. Motocross, Road Racing,
Enduro and Go Kart motors and transmission parts are not permitted. There shall be no
restriction on the make, type or design of carburettor, ignition, exhaust, piston, cam, valve
springs or cooling system except for class eligibility. All engines must be normally
aspirated except F4 4 stroke engines of less than 100cc capacity, which may be turbo or
supercharged.
F4 2 stroke engines over 104cc are restricted to carburation equivalent to a single 24mm
carburettor, F5 4 stroke engines over 53cc are restricted to carburation equivalent to a
single 20mm carburettor.

24-2-5 Fuel: See 10-17-1
Alcohol based fuel or fuel additives are prohibited.

24-2-6 Construction of Solo Motorcycles:
Miniature road racers are to be constructed in accordance with, and comply with, Chapter
10.

[gav]

Yes, dude, but there is a difference between non competition and non competitive as you typed :facepalm: Never mind Yow Ling was just taking the piss .... maybe try reading it slower next time, you might see the funny side ... :innocent:

[haydes55]

All engines must be normally
aspirated except F4 4 stroke engines of less than 100cc capacity, which may be turbo or
supercharged.

Has anyone actually turbo'd a 100cc bucket? This I must see :shit:

[koba]

Has anyone actually turbo'd a 100cc bucket? This I must see :shit:

I know a supercharged 100 has been done. Apparently it was very disappointing.

[haydes55]

I know a supercharged 100 has been done. Apparently it was very disappointing.

My mates job is to deal with turbo's has been a specialist in turboing mainly jap cars for 4 years. Could be worth giving it a crack for a laugh :yes: Need to find me a cheap 100cc bike

[koba]

Need to find me a cheap 100cc bike

And a microscopic turbo.

[haydes55]

And a microscopic turbo.

After the F1 teams started turboing their cars, alot of motorbikes and cars went crazy making turbos of various sizes and alot of very small ones (they had turbos for MX bikes).

[Bert]

I'd go for the super charge option and stroke it; get some low end grunt and it might actually do alright; anyway what would I know, silly four strokes..

[koba]

After the F1 teams started turboing their cars, alot of motorbikes and cars went crazy making turbos of various sizes and alot of very small ones (they had turbos for MX bikes).

Right, but get your mate to do the maths (If he does actually does maths rather than just suck it and see).

A 'cheap' 100cc four stoke is gutless.

If one had a super-duper high performing 100 that is either a twin (250-4 cut in half and destoked?) or a single with 4 valve head (VT250 head on XL?) or whatever it is still only puffing out enough gas to spool up tiny weeny turbo.

There are some real small turbos available but it all starts to get complicated and certainly moves well out of the realms of cheap and easy.

There has been quite a bit said on it here before, have a search and see what you can find.

If you think you can do it go for it! BUT I encourage you to look at it in detail before you go starting it as it may end up a huge waste of time and effort.

I may post up some workings out if it helps you or anyone else (Not my smarts, thank Mr Bell).

[haydes55]

Right, but get your mate to do the maths (If he does actually does maths rather than just suck it and see).



He will need to measure an engines air flow, so I'm guessing he does the math. Just reckon that will be a cool project.

[koba]

He will need to measure an engines air flow, so I'm guessing he does the math. Just reckon that will be a cool project.


It would be very cool but certainly not easy.

Start a new thread and continue the spitballing.

[haydes55]

It would be very cool but certainly not easy.

Start a new thread and continue the spitballing.

Got to find me a 100 first

[bucketracer]

Drive the turbo with a slave engine, keeps it spooled up all the time.

[jasonu]

Mike Green has a long term supercharged 100 4t project.
Maybe we could discuss that for a few pages.

[F5 Dave]

or do a search as its been done to death, which I think was your point.