So they found the cunt, and he's sixteen years old

[jrandom]

Might wander down the courthouse in the morning, I think. Just for a look-see.

"Responding tonight, the family said: "We know what happened was a random act of evil and will never hold Turangi responsible for it. We feel their love and support tonight."

Well, yes, that's all lovely and stuff, but it was Turangi that bred the halfwit psychopath in question, wasn't it? And is it a surprise that a town which basically exists to house prison workers, the families of prisoners, and people on the dole bred such a thing?

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/6196364/Teen-arrested-over-Turangi-tourist-attack

[\m/]

How much does a bullet cost?

[davebullet]

It seems every 5 years one of these finally snaps after a childhood of abuse and unleahes all that poison on a poor unsuspecting innocent.

I have yet to see one of the above ever be "cured / healed" to the point of safe release back into society.

Do we have any inmates who are truly incarcerated for their life term? I mean preventative detention is there, but is it really used?

[FJRider]

So ... it wasn't HIS fault ... it was Turangi's ... ??? :blink:

[Hitcher]

Words fail me.

The fact that somebody had planned and executed this crime troubles me. That in itself begs many questions. When this case was first reported I wondered as to whether the offender was a first timer. Given the level of risk involved, I presumed that they may have had some experience in these matters and that perhaps it may be the risk that added to this crime's appeal. It will be interesting to see what emerges in Court. No doubt teary eyed family members will be publicly espousing the virtues of this young chap, and probably wanting to level blame at the Prime Minister and the Minister of Sexual Warfare(TM). Said teary eyed family members probably believe that the 16-year-old alleged perpetrator is the victim of this crime. Dickheads often struggle with reality and responsibility.

[Pussy]

Make him eat his own bollocks. That is all.

[Zamiam]

How much does a bullet cost?

Too painless. Turn the sick little prick into a mute tetraplegic and make him suffer for as long as he can be kept alive.

[FJRider]

I have the thought ..... in the many years in jail he'll spend during his coming life ... he gets all the sex he deserves ... OFTEN ... :angry:

[Scuba_Steve]

now watch as our legal system gives him 200hrs community service & lets him walk :facepalm:

(tho this guy might (I do say might) actually get handed a sentence given that this case is on the "international" scene)

[jrandom]

So ... it wasn't HIS fault ... it was Turangi's ... ???

Well, 16-year-olds can't vote, buy alcohol or tobacco, or get married (without their parents' permission).

If we are to subscribe to the view that minors aren't as capable of moral responsibility as adults, then the conclusion is foregone.

[FJRider]

Well, 16-year-olds can't vote, buy alcohol or tobacco, or get married (without their parents' permission).

If we are to subscribe to the view that minors aren't as capable of moral responsibility as adults, then the conclusion is foregone.

But they can hold a drivers licence ... Does THAT not require some ... "moral responsibility" ... ???

[flyingcrocodile46]

16 is too young to write off his life. But the damage to his victim is extreme and tax payers shouldn't be burdened with these pricks.

Cut off his nuts and cock then send him to Afghanistan as a refugee to fend for himself. Or give his parents the option to pay to keep him in jail (about $70k pa) for the next 15 years.

[tigertim20]

I have read a number of studies, written by experts working in rehabilitation of sex offenders, and the scary conclusion was that a very, very small percentage of those who were caught for their first offence, were actually first time offenders, the vast majority had committed many sexual crimes before getting pinged for one.
given the attack's seemingly planned nature, I doubt this little cunt was having his first go.

Well done to the Police involved for putting in the hours and catching the little cunt.
I hope that given the seriousness and high profile nature of the case, the Police press to have him tried as an adult, and that the judge on the day doesnt waste all the effort and great work of the cops by bitching out on sentencing.

as for the question of whether we have anyone in prison for actual life, yes, we have one or two who were given so many years for a number of crimes, that they will not be alive when a parole option comes around, but they are very few. way to fucking few in my opinion.

I hope the family and the little girl are doing as well as could be expected.

[jrandom]

But they can hold a drivers licence ... Does THAT not require some ... "moral responsibility" ... ???

Nobody's saying the moral responsibility is zero.

But I'll give you fat odds this kid's grown up watching his uncle rape his sister every second Tuesday and getting the shit kicked out of him every time someone bigger than him was on the piss.

Euthanasia would be appropriate, yes. But the responsibility for that is not his alone.

[Hitcher]

Too painless. Turn the sick little prick into a mute tetraplegic and make him suffer for as long as he can be kept alive.

Fortunately New Zealand has a justice system, not a revenge system. Remember that the offender in this case is just the tip of a very large iceberg of domestic violence. This iceberg won't thaw as long as there are people in our community who turn a blind eye to abuse, and there are many more of these folks then there are criminal offenders.

It's also highly likely that this 16-year-old has learned his craft through observation. On that basis having one person forced to devour their own genitalia is unlikely to make a shred of difference to the societal factors that led to this crime. Lock him up by all means. However the law doesn't have many more constructive remedies to offer.

[\m/]

Too painless. Turn the sick little prick into a mute tetraplegic and make him suffer for as long as he can be kept alive.
True, but the fucker isn't worth spending any money on keeping alive either.

[FJRider]

16 is too young to write off his life ....

I doubt if there will be a lack of "volunteers" to assist if asked ...

One may ... without asking ...

[unstuck]

Give the poor fucker a sickness benefit and a state house and he will come right.:shutup:

[Brian d marge]

there will be a lot more of these, unless u system no to the "trickle down theory and its ilk....
at least with benmore the socially disadvantaged had a life .....

stephen

[doc]

How much does a bullet cost? :no:

How about we wait for the guilty verdict first. Then I will give you all the ammo you need.

[caspernz]

Fortunately New Zealand has a justice system, not a revenge system. Remember that the offender in this case is just the tip of a very large iceberg of domestic violence. This iceberg won't thaw as long as there are people in our community who turn a blind eye to abuse, and there are many more of these folks then there are criminal offenders.

It's also highly likely that this 16-year-old has learned his craft through observation. On that basis having one person forced to devour their own genitalia is unlikely to make a shred of difference to the societal factors that led to this crime. Lock him up by all means. However the law doesn't have many more constructive remedies to offer.

Well put sir. It's breaking that cycle of abuse that is the answer.....how many generations before it becomes socially unacceptable to abuse the ones we're supposed to love?

[FJRider]

Nobody's saying the moral responsibility is zero.

But I'll give you fat odds this kid's grown up watching his uncle rape his sister every second Tuesday and getting the shit kicked out of him every time someone bigger than him was on the piss.

Euthanasia would be appropriate, yes. But the responsibility for that is not his alone.

And I'll give you fat odds he KNEW it was wrong. Responsibility for one's own actions should be foremost in law.

A planned action, goaded into it by an aquaintance, or a spur of the moment decision ... it make no difference. Even with a "family history" ... how would/could this seem right/acceptable ... to anybody ???

[doc]

And I'll give you fat odds he KNEW it was wrong. Responsibility for one's own actions should be foremost in law.

A planned action, goaded into it by an aquaintance, or a spur of the moment decision ... it make no difference. Even with a "family history" ... how would/could this seem right/acceptable ... to anybody ???

Cmon Trev. Has the Kangaroo court been replaced by the KB court system

[Scuba_Steve]

Fortunately New Zealand has a justice system

We do??? :confused: Where's that then???
We have a legal system not by any means a justice system & should never be confused with one.

[SMOKEU]

The government has fucked up big time with criminal justice. I personally know several people who have been severely beaten by large groups of youths for no apparent reason, and the cops do fuck all about it. I used to work in a supermarket where I would often have to work late at night on Friday nights, said supermarket was right next to a big park. About once a month an innocent person would get very badly beaten and robbed by large groups of youths either in the supermarket car park or park itself, and fuck all would get done about it. The offenders might get arrested, then the courts just give them a fine and send them on their way. It's pathetic. The same little cunts would also break into peoples cars, but we all know the cops would much rather go after people with a noisy exhaust and lowered suspension.

Don't get caught doing a burnout in your car though, you'll get the car impounded for 28 days on the spot, a big fine and you'll lose your license for 6 months. Fucking bullshit.

[FJRider]

Cmon Trev. Has the Kangaroo court been replaced by the KB court system

Even KB has standards ... our standard of placing blame is good ... and fast ... :innocent:

[tigertim20]

However the law doesn't have many more constructive remedies to offer.
that is the problem in a nutshell.


We have a legal system not by any means a justice system.
totally agree

. I personally know several people who have been severely beaten by large groups of youths for no apparent reason, and the cops do fuck all about it. I used to work in a supermarket where I would often have to work late at night on Friday nights, said supermarket was right next to a big park. About once a month an innocent person would get very badly beaten and robbed by large groups of youths either in the supermarket car park or park itself, and fuck all would get done about it.. The same little cunts would also break into peoples cars,


sounds like alot of crime gets committed when you're about eh?

[doc]

Even KB has standards ... our standard of placing blame is good ... and fast ... :innocent:

But what happens if "Clint Rickards" gets him a not guilty ticket ?

[SMOKEU]

sounds like alot of crime gets committed when you're about eh?

It was the same group of youths who lived in an impoverished area who would go to the park and get drunk on weekends, usually in groups of between 10-20. It's a few kms away from where I live.

There was another time that me and a group of mates got robbed where a group of guys surrounded the car and grabbed shit out of the car, they hit the car with a baseball bat as well so we called the cops who showed up a few minutes later. Cop says all the offenders are on bail at the time they committed the crime, and no arrests were even made.

Where is the justice in this? Why are some minor traffic offences treated so seriously when vicious assaults are often not treated anywhere near as seriously? People have the right to walk home from a party etc in the early hours of the morning with out being beaten and robbed, people have the right to leave their car out on the street without it being stolen.

It's the same cunts committing the same crimes, the cops know who the majority of these people are, they know where to find them, so why are they allowed to be free to commit these crimes? If people have proved that they are either incapable or unwilling to act like a civilized human being time and time again, then they belong in jail until they can prove that they are capable of being civilized.

[FJRider]

But what happens if "Clint Rickards" gets him a not guilty ticket ?

If that were to happen ... and you were in HIS shoes ... would you feel safe ... ???

And quite happy to return to Turangi ... ???

[tigertim20]

If that were to happen ... and you were in HIS shoes ... would you feel safe ... ???

And quite happy to return to Turangi ... ???

haha actually, a 'not guilty' verdict in court might actually result in true justice... if you catch my drift.

[Mom]

Words fail me.

Dickheads often struggle with reality and responsibility.

As do the poor fuckers that have never stood a chance in their own lives.

I keep my pits and legs well groomed, but the regrowth is rampant and sometimes really hard to deal with!

Educate yourself a bit further. It truely is a sad and real fact of our society that we have this sort of "event", and I believe we are all responsible in part for it. The same goes for any abuse against children.

I dont know squat about the person arrested for what happened, only that he is 16 and has been raised (I hesitate to say dragged up) without the correct, acceptable values that most of us accept and expect as normal. Not his fault really, he is a product of his environment and culture.

The more we stand up on our high horses and spout about how the "Dickheads" behave the less likely we are to actually see anything change. We all need to get out there and DO SOMETHING to help.

Oh, shit, I got my soap box out again.

[DrunkenMistake]

The government has fucked up big time with criminal justice. I personally know several people who have been severely beaten by large groups of youths for no apparent reason, and the cops do fuck all about it. I used to work in a supermarket where I would often have to work late at night on Friday nights, said supermarket was right next to a big park. About once a month an innocent person would get very badly beaten and robbed by large groups of youths either in the supermarket car park or park itself, and fuck all would get done about it. The offenders might get arrested, then the courts just give them a fine and send them on their way. It's pathetic. The same little cunts would also break into peoples cars, but we all know the cops would much rather go after people with a noisy exhaust and lowered suspension.

Don't get caught doing a burnout in your car though, you'll get the car impounded for 28 days on the spot, a big fine and you'll lose your license for 6 months. Fucking bullshit.
Cunning plan you had there, make it seem like you were an innocent trolley boy, meanwhile your sending the little old ladies home via the park...


It was the same group of youths who lived in an impoverished area who would go to the park and get drunk on weekends, usually in groups of between 10-20. It's a few kms away from where I live.

There was another time that me and a group of mates got robbed where a group of guys surrounded the car and grabbed shit out of the car, they hit the car with a baseball bat as well so we called the cops who showed up a few minutes later. Cop says all the offenders are on bail at the time they committed the crime, and no arrests were even made.



So.. you sat in the car with the windows down and let the fuckers take shit..? Insurance fraud I see..
You are not related to the young fella mentioned in this thread are you?

[Hitcher]

haha actually, a 'not guilty' verdict in court might actually result in true justice... if you catch my drift.

Sadly, yes I do. Sometimes people who are found to be not guilty really are not guilty. Our society's standards demand that people are innocent until proven guilty. If they are not proven guilty, then we should presume their innocence. If evidence isn't strong enough for a conviction to be proven, then that is no excuse for vigilantes to take the law into their own hands. Hopefully the Police have a solid case to back their arrest and Court action.

[Deano]

It truely is a sad and real fact of our society that we have this sort of "event", and I believe we are all responsible in part for it. The same goes for any abuse against children.

I dont know squat about the person arrested for what happened, only that he is 16 and has been raised (I hesitate to say dragged up) without the correct, acceptable values that most of us accept and expect as normal. Not his fault really, he is a product of his environment and culture.



There are no excuses. Factors yes, but not excuses. Many people have a shit upbringing but they don't all do this shit - they know what is right from wrong. I live my life and raise my kids as I see fit - I don't know this c*nt or his family from a bar of soap. Pray tell how I am responsible in part for this outrage ?

[SMOKEU]

So.. you sat in the car with the windows down and let the fuckers take shit..? Insurance fraud I see..
You are not related to the young fella mentioned in this thread are you?

One of my mates found a chick on an online dating website who invited him to her house. Me and another 2 mates dropped him off, which is when a group of about 6 people walked out of the address and promptly surrounded the car. This is when they took shit from inside the car and started attacking it with a baseball bat as we tried to drive off. The vehicle that was attacked wasn't even insured, so I'm guessing it's hard to commit insurance fraud then.

The young fella mentioned in this thread is not related to me as the only relative I have in NZ is my mom. I'm pretty sure my mom isn't a 16 year old boy.

[jrandom]

one of my mates found a chick on an online dating website

NEK MINNiT

[Brian d marge]

As do the poor fuckers that have never stood a chance in their own lives.

I keep my pits and legs well groomed, but the regrowth is rampant and sometimes really hard to deal with!

Educate yourself a bit further. It truely is a sad and real fact of our society that we have this sort of "event", and I believe we are all responsible in part for it. The same goes for any abuse against children.

I dont know squat about the person arrested for what happened, only that he is 16 and has been raised (I hesitate to say dragged up) without the correct, acceptable values that most of us accept and expect as normal. Not his fault really, he is a product of his environment and culture.

The more we stand up on our high horses and spout about how the "Dickheads" behave the less likely we are to actually see anything change. We all need to get out there and DO SOMETHING to help.

Oh, shit, I got my soap box out again.

don't you be going and talking sence, specially here on KB ......

u is making one or two feel all warm and fuzzy down below, talking that sence and all


stephen

[tigertim20]

One of my mates found a chick on an online dating website who invited him to her house. Me and another 2 mates dropped him off, which is when a group of about 6 people walked out of the address and promptly surrounded the car. This is when they took shit from inside the car and started attacking it with a baseball bat as we tried to drive off. The vehicle that was attacked wasn't even insured, so I'm guessing it's hard to commit insurance fraud then.
.
thats why you dont hire hookers off the web. You pick them up off the street, no paper trail, and no body. (if you do it right)



The young fella mentioned in this thread is not related to me as the only relative I have in NZ is my mom. I'm pretty sure my mom isn't a 16 year old boy.
Is it possible that she USED to be a 16 year old boy?

[superman]

I wonder about his upbringing...

People are always quick to want to shoot or hang someone who does disgusting acts. But a normal person growing up in a loving family doesn't do such things unless they're psychopaths/socio-paths.

The least we can do is try to fix 'em since society has already failed them, the worst thing we could do is just kill 'em.

[SMOKEU]

Is it possible that she USED to be a 16 year old boy?

Anything is possible.

[tigertim20]

I wonder about his upbringing...

People are always quick to want to shoot or hang someone who does disgusting acts. But a normal person growing up in a loving family doesn't do such things unless they're psychopaths/socio-paths.

The least we can do is try to fix 'em since society has already failed them, the worst thing we could do is just kill 'em.

have you seen what the re-offending rate is in this country, do you even know what percentage of offenders reoffend within 12 months of being released?
Its fucking high, and thats just the ones that get caught, what about those that dont?
regardless of the reason behind what he did, he CHOSE to do it.

Alot of people like to piss on about 'ohhh, but the guy never had a chance, he was brought up, it isnt his fault'
what a fucking crock of shit. A brief look through history will show a massive number of people who were brought up in low income homes, who suffered awful family lives, and abuse of many different sorts, yet came through it and worked hard, to become decent, hard working, successfull people who contributed positively to their community.
at 16 years old you are old enough to know that holding a 5 year old girl down and shoving your cock up her ass is FUCKING WRONG.

Studies over the last century have shown that neither nature, nor nurture are the sole contributors to the product we become as people. what this means is that a person with a natural tendency to be disrespectful and selfish, can be shown, through positive examples, that there is a better way to communicate with, and contribute to society.
Likewise, a person who has had a poor upbringing simply has a bad example set out, yet it is their nature that determines whether they follow this example, or think for themselves.

Ultimately, you have a decision. you CHOOSE to act, and frankly breaking into a unit, holding a FIVE YEAR OLD GIRL down, getting your dick out, and trying to forcefully sodomize an innocent child is not a spur of the moment reaction, it is a NUMBER of DECISIONS, with multiple opportunities to re-asses and change your decisions and actions. so on that note, he CHOSE to do it. fuck his upbringing, I saw people do plenty of dumb shit when I was growing up, but I chose of my own accord which of these things i did, or did not do myself.

On another note, he was actually sick enough to get turned on by it, which suggests a natural inclination towards that type of behavior in the first place.

Im a bit sick of all the excuses. it is a fallacy that the upbringing is responsible for our actions. It might be true of a 3, 4, or 5 year old, who has not had enough life experience to make their own decisions, but at 16, you are well past the point where such extreme behavior can be attributed to 'but I saw uncle Jack do it'

[HenryDorsetCase]

We do??? :confused: Where's that then???
We have a legal system not by any means a justice system & should never be confused with one.

How does it work on your planet?

Enquiring minds.

[Winston001]

Words fail me.

The fact that somebody had planned and executed this crime troubles me.

Maybe I missed something or are you assuming the planning? It sounds like an opportunist crime so far.

Apart from that we are assuming the person arrested is the offender but it could also be someone whom the police believe helped the offender afterwards, or destroyed evidence etc.

[SMOKEU]

I really don't like this whole culture of diminished responsibility. Eg, "it wasn't his fault he robbed a petrol station and hacked up the store clerk with a machete, it's because he was abused as a child", or "it's not his fault he beat someone up when he was drunk, it's because there are too many liquor stores around and alcohol is too cheap", or "it's not his fault he killed an innocent person, it's because young people should not be allowed to drive fast cars".

Why can't we hold individuals responsible for their actions? It's peoples choice to do stupid shit, and if they're prepared to do shit like that, they should be prepared to suffer the consequences.

The government is so hell bent on turning ordinary people into criminals (how much police and court time is wasted by people who get busted smoking a bit of dope?) or people who exceed speed limits on a quiet country side road (it's a big difference to speed on a quiet country side road compared to in front of a primary school during school hours or a basket of cute puppies).

The government needs to get their priorities right.

[Flip]

I could go with revenge on this one.

Some crimes are just too nasty for anything else.

[Zamiam]

We do??? :confused: Where's that then???
We have a legal system not by any means a justice system & should never be confused with one.

Too right and the legal system only works for those with the deepest pockets

[Ronin]

Remember he is being dealt with (for now) under the Youth Court system. Assuming he is found guilty then the outcome is unlikely to be anything like what most people would call "justice". Although interestingly the charge of sexual violation carries a maximum sentence of 20 years. If you are found guilty of sexual violation the Judge MUST impose a prison sentence. There is also no presumption of law that a person is incapable of sexual connection because of his or her age.

[Berries]

It truely is a sad and real fact of our society that we have this sort of "event", and I believe we are all responsible in part for it.
What's this "we" shit?

[KiWiP]

Hope none of the more vigorous posters on this thread aren't on the jury.

He's been arrested and charged and will face the charges presented.

He has not been found guilty.

Until he has been found guilty he is innocent. The assumption of innocence is a FUNDAMENTAL right of our society. It is what separates us from the gob shite, hand choppers and stoners of virgins.

The crime is absolutely horrific and all steps should be taken to ensure it doesn't happen again, but be realistic it will, until we take a little more interest in such issues beyond screaming "HANG THE FUCKER" hysterically each time a vile act comes to us through the media.

Here's a couple of places you can get started to really make a difference

http://www.childmatters.org.nz/
(http://www.childmatters.org.nz/)http://www.jigsaw.org.nz
(http://www.jigsaw.org.nz)http://www.bigbrothersbigsisters.org.nz
(http://www.bigbrothersbigsisters.org.nz)http://www.firstfoundation.co.nz

Those who seek physical retribution if he is found guilty I have no argument against you. However you must accept to be judged as you judge. That is if you get done transgressing any of the laws of our society (speeding ticket, parking fine etc) don't you dare come back onto this forum bleating about how you have been so hard done by.

If he is found guilty he will receive a sentence. If it falls short of castration and force feeding of his knackers many of you will feel hard done by and start bleating on this site to that effect. Well don't bother because it won't make a piss in the oceans difference. If it matters so much to you then get involved, write to the ministry of justice http://www.justice.govt.nz or your local MP http://www.parliament.nz/en-NZ/AboutParl/GetInvolved/ . There's no point in lifting your frock in indignation in this forum because it won't make a difference. If you do want to make a difference then do something about it.

If you didn't vote you have no voice, just go fuck yourself

Here's to justice!

p.s. I do work with children and children's charities before you start with 'well what do you know!'

[Stirts]

OH FFS.... I don’t give a rats arse if he was abused or came from a dysfunctional feral fucked-up family!! I am SO fucken fed up with this PC BULLSHIT making excuses for these type of fucktards. What he has done is DISGUSTING, SICK, PSYCHOTIC, and PERVERTED, END OF FUCKING STORY!!!! So how about we put the blame where it clearly belongs .... WITH THE OFFENDER!!!

Well done to the Police for making a speedy arrest too!!! I only hope like hell they have got the evidence they need to put this sicko away, if he is infact the guilty one. Would be nice to see "the powers that be" have the balls and take the opportunity to make an example of this type of offender!!

[oldrider]

there will be a lot more of these, unless u system no to the "trickle down theory and its ilk....
at least with benmore the socially disadvantaged had a life .....

stephen

What the hell are you smoking? ... Hello! :lol:

[Scuba_Steve]

How does it work on your planet?

Enquiring minds.

What NZ, Earth? Simple answer would be, we protect the guilty while prosecuting the innocent.



Until he has been found guilty he is innocent. The assumption of innocence is a FUNDAMENTAL right of our society. It is what separates us from the gob shite, hand choppers and stoners of virgins.

You should try telling the legal system that. I too would like to think we are, but truth is slowly by slowly we are becoming a guilty until proven innocent legal system. It's only a matter of time before we try following America & introducing laws to skip charges & trials all together.



Those who seek physical retribution if he is found guilty I have no argument against you. However you must accept to be judged as you judge. That is if you get done transgressing any of the laws of our society (speeding ticket, parking fine etc) don't you dare come back onto this forum bleating about how you have been so hard done by.

slightly different don't you think? the 2 laws you point out are ones that exist purely to make money, and are not in society's best interest. They are also 2 laws where the guilty until proven innocent model is already applied. But you somehow imply getting scammed for speeding is somehow as bad as assaulting with the intent to sexually abuse a 5yr old girl I think you need to re-look at your morals/opinions.



If he is found guilty he will receive a sentence. If it falls short of castration and force feeding of his knackers many of you will feel hard done by and start bleating on this site to that effect. Well don't bother because it won't make a piss in the oceans difference. If it matters so much to you then get involved, write to the ministry of justice http://www.justice.govt.nz or your local MP http://www.parliament.nz/en-NZ/AboutParl/GetInvolved/ . There's no point in lifting your frock in indignation in this forum because it won't make a difference. If you do want to make a difference then do something about it.

It's not only that it'll fall short of what should be done, it's that it'll fall short of almost any punishment at all (going by past cases). As for getting involved? I think you have to higher opinion of what that'll actually achieve, people who want to do good are pushed out by those who have themselves at interest, so again unlikely to make "a piss in the oceans difference". Only difference is KB doesn't require alot of time/effort to make that "piss in the ocean difference"



Here's to justice!

Let me know when you find it

[oldrider]

Hope none of the more vigorous posters on this thread aren't on the jury.

He's been arrested and charged and will face the charges presented.

He has not been found guilty.

Until he has been found guilty he is innocent. The assumption of innocence is a FUNDAMENTAL right of our society. It is what separates us from the gob shite, hand choppers and stoners of virgins.

The crime is absolutely horrific and all steps should be taken to ensure it doesn't happen again, but be realistic it will, until we take a little more interest in such issues beyond screaming "HANG THE FUCKER" hysterically each time a vile act comes to us through the media.

Here's a couple of places you can get started to really make a difference

http://www.childmatters.org.nz/
(http://www.childmatters.org.nz/)http://www.jigsaw.org.nz
(http://www.jigsaw.org.nz)http://www.bigbrothersbigsisters.org.nz
(http://www.bigbrothersbigsisters.org.nz)http://www.firstfoundation.co.nz

Those who seek physical retribution if he is found guilty I have no argument against you. However you must accept to be judged as you judge. That is if you get done transgressing any of the laws of our society (speeding ticket, parking fine etc) don't you dare come back onto this forum bleating about how you have been so hard done by.

If he is found guilty he will receive a sentence. If it falls short of castration and force feeding of his knackers many of you will feel hard done by and start bleating on this site to that effect. Well don't bother because it won't make a piss in the oceans difference. If it matters so much to you then get involved, write to the ministry of justice http://www.justice.govt.nz or your local MP http://www.parliament.nz/en-NZ/AboutParl/GetInvolved/ . There's no point in lifting your frock in indignation in this forum because it won't make a difference. If you do want to make a difference then do something about it.

If you didn't vote you have no voice, just go fuck yourself

Here's to justice!

p.s. I do work with children and children's charities before you start with 'well what do you know!'

There's the birthplace of all this PC crap, right there! ... Unfortunately the pendulum swings too far! :facepalm:

[Berries]

If you didn't vote you have no voice, just go fuck yourself'
What a load of shit.

[GrayWolf]

And I'll give you fat odds he KNEW it was wrong. Responsibility for one's own actions should be foremost in law.

A planned action, goaded into it by an aquaintance, or a spur of the moment decision ... it make no difference. Even with a "family history" ... how would/could this seem right/acceptable ... to anybody ???

Having studied 'abnormal psycology, at Uni, there is one very sad fact to peadophilia, most actualy do NOT see what they are doing as 'wrong'..to them it is accceptable and 'normal'..... that is why there is such a high level of recidivism in peadophile cases.

[Bikemad]

If you didn't vote you have no voice, just go fuck yourself



it's still gonna be my tax $ that help pay for the investigation,rehabilitation and feeding and clothing the scumbag for the next few years so what the fuck does voting or not have to do with anything dickhead??
if you can get ya mates in the agencies to forgive my Tax responsibilities then i will never complain about anything again............sort of

[kiwifruit]

I feel sorry for the offender. Imagine what it's like existing within his mind.... it'd be a scary place to be.

[FJRider]

Having studied 'abnormal psycology, at Uni, there is one very sad fact to peadophilia, most actualy do NOT see what they are doing as 'wrong'..to them it is accceptable and 'normal'..... that is why there is such a high level of recidivism in peadophile cases.

If that were the case in this incident ... why didn't he hang around for a cup of tea (or a beer) with the parents ... ???

[Zamiam]

... The assumption of innocence is a FUNDAMENTAL right of our society. ...

I wish I lived in your world. As pointed out by others there are plenty of "laws" in NZ where this is not the case and more are passed every year. Its great for the system that it's put the cost (time and money) on the accused to prove their innocence instead of on the system to prove their case "beyond reasonable doubt". RIGHTS they are things each generation has less and less of - we are moving more and more back towards a serfdom type of society - we are all just too apathetic to do anyting about it other than bleat around our handles or on forums such as KBer.

Having dealt with the NZ legal system a few times on a business basis where I have been in the right but have had to back off as the costs became prohibitive and having witnessed others being persecuted by the system and having to "plea bargain” because they didn’t have endless funds I have absolutely no faith in our system.

The PC bullshit has got to the extent where the victim is treated worse than the offender. Maybe there is something to be said for the approach of the arab world (with some moderation) – you’ll find it difficult to continue to steal with no hands and society won’t feed you either. Quite a disincentive to steal. Here we say poor Johnny, smack him on the hand with a wet bus ticket and continue to give him a benefit which allows him plenty of time to hone his skills.

[Virago]

I utterly deplore such acts of extreme violence. People who commit such crimes should have their testicles cut off and then be forced to eat them, and have all their arms and legs cut off really slowly, and and and be kept alive as long as possible for more torture, and and and when they die they should be resusitated so they can be forced to watch us torture their families, and and and then we can poke their eyes out with a burning stick and and and...

[FJRider]

I utterly deplore such acts of extreme violence. People who commit such crimes should have their testicles cut off and then be forced to eat them, and have all their arms and legs cut off really slowly, and and and be kept alive as long as possible for more torture, and and and when they die they should be resusitated so they can be forced to watch us torture their families, and and and then we can poke their eyes out with a burning stick and and and...

... the soft option ...

[blue rider]

I utterly deplore such acts of extreme violence. People who commit such crimes should have their testicles cut off and then be forced to eat them, and have all their arms and legs cut off really slowly, and and and be kept alive as long as possible for more torture, and and and when they die they should be resusitated so they can be forced to watch us torture their families, and and and then we can poke their eyes out with a burning stick and and and...


... the soft option ...


maybe this will satisfy

[jonbuoy]

Some people are just plain evil, the pc brigade are right the cycle does need to be stopped - nip this one in the bud - castrate him so he can¨t breed.

[meteor]

If they are not proven guilty, then we should presume their innocence.

Another theory is that if they are not proven guilty, they are just not proven guilty. It doesn't mean they are innocent. It means the weight of evidence wasn't enough to prove beyond a reasonable doubt to convince a Judge or a Jury, not that there was no evidence. Bear in mind that the goal posts of 'beyond reasonable doubt' have moved to 'beyond the shadow of a doubt' and theat many people get acquited on technicalities when they are guilty. Also Juries only get to see the evidence that is admissable, not all the evidence available. Defence councils get to paw over all the evidence before a Jury hears it and has time to 'construct' a defence... that's their job. The 'justice' system is a big game, it's not about right and wrong, innocent or guilty... and some peole make a lot of money out of that game!

[placidfemme]

It's just sad. Wrong and immoral.

Now we can all relax, sit back and watch the criminal get more rights than the victim... again.

Justice will not be served, a vigilante won't avenge this waste of skin for that child.

Belguim will have a very tainted view of NZ, and until next time, we can bitch about our country some more.

All we can hope is that the little girl is given every ounce of support and love that she will need to walk her life carrying this scar.

[Stirts]

All we can hope is that the little girl is given every ounce of support and love that she will need to walk her life carrying this scar.

I am sure she will, if she leaves NZ of course. Generally "organisations/agencies" don't put priority and resources into the needs and support for our victims, only our criminals!

But how awesome did the locals in Turangi do!!! $13,000 raised to support her :Punk: now THAT did make me proud to say I am a NZer!!!

[DMNTD]

...the pc brigade are right the cycle does need to be stopped - nip this one in the bud - castrate him so he can¨t breed.

Sure but it's that same pc brigade that won't allow the chop of the weener's bits.
Bring back (genuine) discipline both at home and in schools (I'm not talking the 'bash').
Consiquences...where has it gone?

[mashman]

Sounds like they both need different forms of support. Hope that her only being 5 goes in her favour and that she isn't reminded of such a horrific act every day and she may get over it. Personally, I'd like to see the teen buried alive, but I guess everyone deserves a second chance.

[SS90]

It's just sad. Wrong and immoral.



Belguim will have a very tainted view of NZ, and until next time, we can bitch about our country some more.




I find that unlikely..... if any Belgian (or European for that matter) was to make snide comments about safety of kids in NZ, they would do well to remember the Belgian serial killer/Pedo/ all round sick fuck Mark Dutroix (and his gang of oxygen thiefs and Wife), as well as the fact that there is a proven cover up, as his Pedo ring involved powerful members of parliament, or Austrias Joseph Fritzel (I am sure everyone knows that story.)

bottom line.... Don't trust any Europeans with a basement.

Thats no joke.....

I don't want to take away from this horrible act, but there was a higher chance of this happening on their own country than NZ

Belgium has one of the highest rates of missing kids in the EU.

P.S...... Let's sodomize the guilty offender with a soldering iron...... Every Wednesday for the rest of his life ( a long one)

[Hitcher]

Maybe I missed something or are you assuming the planning? It sounds like an opportunist crime so far.

Call me old fashioned, but anybody who has had their eye on a caravan containing two sleeping children, one of whom (the little girl) they had clearly sussed out and had intentions upon, then waited for parents to wander off and be out of range for a period of time, before entering the caravan and then locking the door, hardly seems to me like an opportunist crime.

[Hitcher]

I feel sorry for the offender. Imagine what it's like existing within his mind.... it'd be a scary place to be.

Or not. People who have no concept of right or wrong, nor of actions and consequences probably have a blissful existence. They are the centre of a universe around which everything else rotates. From their perspective, life is probably all about them and their needs being met on their terms. If they started a political party it would probably be called New Zealand First.

[nothingflash]

As do the poor fuckers that have never stood a chance in their own lives.

I keep my pits and legs well groomed, but the regrowth is rampant and sometimes really hard to deal with!

Educate yourself a bit further. It truely is a sad and real fact of our society that we have this sort of "event", and I believe we are all responsible in part for it. The same goes for any abuse against children.

I dont know squat about the person arrested for what happened, only that he is 16 and has been raised (I hesitate to say dragged up) without the correct, acceptable values that most of us accept and expect as normal. Not his fault really, he is a product of his environment and culture.

The more we stand up on our high horses and spout about how the "Dickheads" behave the less likely we are to actually see anything change. We all need to get out there and DO SOMETHING to help.

Oh, shit, I got my soap box out again.


What's this "we" shit?

Have to agree there. What is the SOMETHING that you think we all need to get out there and do that will help?

[Mully]

Well, yes, there's "innocent until proven guilty" and all that.

However, while the Police did arrest the suspect, my understanding was that he handed himself in at the Cop Shop yesterday - I'm no lawyer, but that tends to hint towards them having the right person.

How about (if he's found guilty), we let the girl's parents choose the punishment?

[Hitcher]

How about (if he's found guilty), we let the girl's parents choose the punishment?

Victims are generally very forgiving people. And any legal action and consequences isn't just about them.

[Mully]

Victims are generally very forgiving people. And any legal action and consequences isn't just about them.

Good point.
How about a referendum, then?

[Hitcher]

How about a referendum, then?

Referendums are a waste of time. Too few people vote in them, and then Governments can always ignore the outcomes.

[Mully]

Referendums are a waste of time. Too few people vote in them, and then Governments can always ignore the outcomes.

Urgh. Are you part of the solution, Hitcher??

How about we just shoot the prick then?

[jasonu]

As do the poor fuckers that have never stood a chance in their own lives.
That is no excuse to do shit like this prick did

with!Educate yourself a bit further. It truely is a sad and real fact of our society that we have this sort of "event", and I believe we are all responsible in part for it. The same goes for any abuse against children.
What is this 'we' shit? I am in no way responsible for this crime.

I dont know squat about the person arrested for what happened, only that he is 16 and has been raised (I hesitate to say dragged up) without the correct, acceptable values that most of us accept and expect as normal. Not his fault really, he is a product of his environment and culture.
If you don't know squat about this person then how do you know what sort of upbringing he had?

The more we stand up on our high horses and spout about how the "Dickheads" behave the less likely we are to actually see anything change. We all need to get out there and DO SOMETHING to help.
What is this 'something' you speak of? Got any suggestions?

Oh, shit, I got my soap box out again.
That is quite clear

[kiwifruit]

People who have no concept of right or wrong, nor of actions and consequences probably have a blissful existence. They are the centre of a universe around which everything else rotates. From their perspective, life is probably all about them and their needs being met on their terms.

Blissful is not how I imagine it to be, in the mind of someone like this. I imagine the world / normal society is quite a frightening place where no one can be trusted. Living life with shit tinted glasses.

Mind altering substances will offer short bursts of joy but the side effects draw the mind further from functioning society. It's worth it tho, so why not take advantage of these (legal and illegal) substances, this person may think.

Rock bottom for someone like this could be punctuated by an event of extreme madness. All rational thought long gone. Not even like being alive anymore. I imagine it to be like being a passenger in one's own body, driven by a bent mind. Bent like a bad salvia trip that never ends.

It doesn't just happen, it's the result of all the shit that mind has been through. I'm not defending the boy but I can fathom how it's happened.

It'll happen again.

[MD]

I tried to stay off this topic because the subject just makes me wild - yes, I'm with the lynch mob crowd.

Why do some people have to jump to the defence of what are nothing but evil, vile, cruel and selfish creatures, who, by their own actions void themselves of deserving any sympathy or care. They are not fit to be described as humans. If it's not bad enough he raped and almost bashed to death a five year old girl, people trying to make excuses for him add insult to her injuries.

What he did, only he did. Stop making excuses. Oh it's societies fault, it's the Doles fault, it's Santa Claus's fault or maybe Bugs bunny. And stop with the 'we' are responsible crap. I, like thousands of others in this country, had no part in this scumbag's upbringing or actions.

Congrats to the Police for catching him. But why the hell did this have to happen (News quote);
Police spoke with family to negotiate the alleged attacker's appearance at Turangi police station yesterday. The 16-year-old was accompanied by a family member, Loper said.

Since when do Police have to beg for permission from a Suspect/offender's family before arresting him? At least now we know his racial background by this show of ridiculous and totally undeserved courtesy.

[Smifffy]

I think he should be shackled, dipped in the Waikato a few times and then let go over Huka falls. Let the Taniwha judge him.

[Hitcher]

I think he should be shackled, dipped in the Waikato a few times and then let go over Huka falls. Let the Taniwha judge him.

Again, death achieves little. Revenge is a dish best served cold. Being made to live his life perpetually trouserless, with "Kiddie Fiddler" tattooed on his forehead should make it hard for him to make friends and influence people.

[JATZ]

Again, death achieves little.

It'll stop the little fucker from doing again :done: and it'll mean you and I don't have to support him when he goes to jail.

[jasonu]

At least now we know his racial background by this show of ridiculous and totally undeserved courtesy.

Rightly or wrongly, I had a pretty good idea of the racial background of the perp when I first read what had happened and where it took place.

[Smifffy]

Again, death achieves little. Revenge is a dish best served cold. Being made to live his life perpetually trouserless, with "Kiddie Fiddler" tattooed on his forehead should make it hard for him to make friends and influence people.

I'm not advocating killing him. That's for the Taniwha to decide, although I do hear they are open to bribes.

[RDJ]

Police spoke with family to negotiate the alleged attacker's appearance at Turangi police station yesterday. The 16-year-old was accompanied by a family member, Loper said.


There has been only one group allowed / favored such negotiation by the authorities. At least so far.

[Bikemad]

watched braveheart the other night................had an excellent ending:msn-wink:

[kiwifruit]

Why do some people have to jump to the defence of what are nothing but evil, vile, cruel and selfish creatures, who, by their own actions void themselves of deserving any sympathy or care. They are not fit to be described as humans. If it's not bad enough he raped and almost bashed to death a five year old girl, people trying to make excuses for him add insult to her injuries.

What he did, only he did. Stop making excuses.

Of course there is no excuse but there are reasons why it happened. I don't offer a defence rather a desire to understand how it happened. Why would I, or anyone else make excuses? I think your passion for the topic may have clouded your perception of other people's views. You'd struggle to find people would wouldn't be in favour of putting him down.

Just because I, or anyone else, attempt(s) to offer a possible insight into the mind of this animal doesn't mean we're "on his side".

[tigertim20]

there are reasons why it happened. .

it happened because the offender wanted to fuck a 5 year old child, and saw his chance to get his cock out and do just that.

I can understand the desire to understand things, but sometimes, you look so hard for an 'answer' that you don't see the simple truth: some people are just fucked in the head.

Whats perhaps the most sad thing out of this thread, is that fuckall of the posts makes any reference or consideration to the 5 year old girl who was scared, and alone, with a dangerous, vicious, sick offender, and who will probably not have a decent nights sleep for many months without recurring nightmares.
Yes its tempting to lynch the cunt, but whats done is done, we cannot change the past, but we CAN find ways to support the victims in such situations, even if the support is only of the moral variety.

My thoughts are with that little child, and the family, who will no doubt be blaming themselves on the inside for leaving their child alone for a few minutes, even though the incident is clearly not their fault.

[onearmedbandit]

Whats perhaps the most sad thing out of this thread, is that fuckall of the posts makes any reference or consideration to the 5 year old girl who was scared, and alone, with a dangerous, vicious, sick offender, and who will probably not have a decent nights sleep for many months without recurring nightmares.


I understand what you are saying, but there wouldn't be one person who has posted in this thread who doesn't have complete compassion towards the little girl, who hasn't considered her well-being. I'm the father of two young girls, one is 5yrs old, and I can't begin to comprehend how the little girl is, how she is coping, what she is thinking.

But, that is not what this thread is about. If you started a thread titled 'How do you think the 5yr old victim is coping?" or whatever, then that's what you'd get.

My opinion on this matter. Just because we humans are of a higher intelligence (despite some obvious flaws), I don't feel that should guarantee everyone the right to exist. If a wolf in a pack attacked another's pups I don't think they would try and 'talk' it out. Yes yes we are not wolves, it's a stupid comparison to make. Or is it? The situation is dealt with immediately, there is no further risk, the other wolves don't have to pay the price of feeding the now contained wolf, and a message is sent to all the other wolves, including those that don't think containment is all that bad. Serious child abusers, either mental, physical or sexually, would in my ideal world have cashed out their right to exist in society. If you want to start picking holes about what constitutes serious child abuse or where do we stop with this cleansing of society, feel free, I'm not offering a complete or even beneficial option, just my thoughts.

[Winston001]

ith!

Educate yourself a bit further. It truely is a sad and real fact of our society that we have this sort of "event", and I believe we are all responsible in part for it. The same goes for any abuse against children.





Here's a couple of places you can get started to really make a difference

http://www.childmatters.org.nz/
(http://www.childmatters.org.nz/)http://www.jigsaw.org.nz
(http://www.jigsaw.org.nz)http://www.bigbrothersbigsisters.org.nz
(http://www.bigbrothersbigsisters.org.nz)http://www.firstfoundation.co.nz


If it matters so much to you then get involved, write to the ministry of justice http://www.justice.govt.nz or your local MP http://www.parliament.nz/en-NZ/AboutParl/GetInvolved/ . There's no point in lifting your frock in indignation in this forum because it won't make a difference. If you do want to make a difference then do something about it.




Bling sent.


I feel sorry for the offender. Imagine what it's like existing within his mind.... it'd be a scary place to be.

Mom isn't saying that you and I are to blame but she is saying that our society shuts its eyes to violent dysfunctional families and then we wonder why their feral children appear among us. There is a suspicious death/murder of a child nearly every week in NZ and countless other serious assaults that the hospitals see.

In spite of my respect for the rule of law (and yes it does work - try South America/Africa/Central Asia for contrast) I think the time has come for special child welfare powers and the suspension of privacy laws. Detect abuse, remove children, prosecute parents.

Its not all bad: think of all the books Ian Wishart could write!! :facepalm:

[Winston001]

The other thing is this type of sexual offender is not your average person. Each of us feels helpless rage against a person whom we imagine to have similar feelings and knows right from wrong.

Far from it. These are sick people. They are not normal and often can't even pretend to be normal when they are young. Many paedophiles were abused as children but there are others who embrace it and see nothing wrong. In their eyes we make up stupid rules. These people have personality disorders and do not understand the way the rest of us behave.

Nevertheless they can be intelligent and cover up well in adulthood which is scary for the rest of us.

I'm struggling to explain myself here. I am not suggesting sympathy or even compassionate understanding for the creeps who are compelled to see children as sexual objects. But you can't think of them as normal people...so normal responses such as anger etc make no difference to them.

Prison and chemical castration is the only answer that we know of.

[mashman]

The other thing is this type of sexual offender is not your average person. Each of us feels helpless rage against a person whom we imagine to have similar feelings and knows right from wrong.

Far from it. These are sick people. They are not normal and often can't even pretend to be normal when they are young. Many paedophiles were abused as children but there are others who embrace it and see nothing wrong. In their eyes we make up stupid rules. These people have personality disorders and do not understand the way the rest of us behave.

Nevertheless they can be intelligent and cover up well in adulthood which is scary for the rest of us.

I'm struggling to explain myself here. I am not suggesting sympathy or even compassionate understanding for the creeps who are compelled to see children as sexual objects. But you can't think of them as normal people...so normal responses such as anger etc make no difference to them.

Prison and chemical castration is the only answer that we know of.

I know for a fact that they can be your best friend through 5+ years of school and turn out to be something you would have NEVER pegged them for.

[avgas]

Sure but it's that same pc brigade that won't allow the chop of the weener's bits.
Bring back (genuine) discipline both at home and in schools (I'm not talking the 'bash').
Consiquences...where has it gone?
It left with honest integrity and morality.

I think they got replaced with a government at some point. You would have to remove them before you can get consequences back. Otherwise it will always be easier to blame everything but the problem.

[short-circuit]

http://tinyurl.com/2g9mqh

[Smifffy]

In spite of my respect for the rule of law (and yes it does work - try South America/Africa/Central Asia for contrast) I think the time has come for special child welfare powers and the suspension of privacy laws. Detect abuse, remove children, prosecute parents.



Just so long as it doesn't end up going the way of being over PC in the opposite direction. Like this:


In 2008, Christopher Ratte and his seven-year-old son were attending a Detroit Tigers game together. When Ratte went to the concession stand, he grabbed a beer for himself and a Mike’s Hard Lemonade for his son, unaware that the drink contained 5% alcohol. When a security guard saw Ratte’s son nursing the bottle of the spiked beverage, he immediately took it from him and then rushed the boy to the stadium’s medical clinic. The medical clinic called an ambulance, and the boy was sent to an emergency room. The doctors at the ER found no trace of alcohol in his system and were ready to release the boy to his father.

But the police had other plans. According to procedure, the police were required to turn the child over to the county’s child protective services. Many of the officers hated the fact they had to do it, but rules are rules. County officials put the boy into a foster home for three days even though the case agents didn’t feel it was the right thing to do, but they had to follow procedure. A judge then ruled that the boy could be released from foster care and into his mother’s custody so long as Ratte moved out of the house. Again, the judge was just following the procedure in his ruling. After two long weeks, dad and son were finally reunited.

The police, county workers, and even the judge all agreed that what this family went through because of a dad’s honest mistake wasn’t an execution of justice. But their hands were tied.

[Usarka]

from stuff.co.nz


They are shocked their town (a Mongrel Mob "retirement village" where they believe their cousins occasionally stabbing each other is not that awful) could birth something this dank.

Another local tells us the "perpetrator" of the crime is filthy and disgusting. But in the worst thing to happen today, qualifies it. "Who," she says, "goes to another country and leaves kids on their own?"

[Smifffy]

From the harold

"The boy's father was heard to lay the blame on alcohol."

[tigertim20]

But, that is not what this thread is about. .
and that right there is half the problem. the way we as individuals, and as a society respond to things.
our immediate response is 'I wanna fucking stab the little cunt' - a sentiment I shared myself.
If our natural response to such a thing was 'holy fuck, how can I help the victim, and what can we learn, or take from this that will lessen the chances of it happening again' - we would be much better off.

As it is, it begins with a piss and a rage, we make a side comment about 'the poor victim', and become focused on the anger and disgust we feel towards the victim, that by the time we have managed to qualm our anger, we have resorted simply to typing on a message board how disgusted we are that such a thing has occurred and that the judge is a cunt for slapping the offender with a wet bus ticket.

I ask you though, how many of the people who have responded to this thread have, as a result, gone and actually done something positive, like make a monetary contribution to an organisation that works with victims and or offenders? or get in touch with an organisation to see if you can be of any use offering yourself as a volunteer? - very few, if any is my bet. and that is half the problem, we are so consumed with airing our ill feelings, that we forget to actually do anything to change the things that apparently disgust us so much.

[tigertim20]

I know for a fact that they can be your best friend through 5+ years of school and turn out to be something you would have NEVER pegged them for.


The other thing is this type of sexual offender is not your average person. Each of us feels helpless rage against a person whom we imagine to have similar feelings and knows right from wrong.

Far from it. These are sick people. They are not normal and often can't even pretend to be normal when they are young. f.

there is no defined set of characteristics for those who commit sexual offences against children.
case in point.

Earlier this year I was working out my time in a fixed term contract working with at-risk youth.
the youth were there for a variety of reasons, and were housed in a house (3 youths to a house) with 24/7 supervision.
One young man came in who was 16 years old. the reason he was there was because when he was 14 years old, he has molested his 9 year old sister three times. His sister never told anyone about it, and the only reason it came out, was because the young man had attempted suicide at 16, right before coming into our care (this was the reason for him coming to us).
When I read his file before working with him, I wanted to fucking kill the cunt, but my education and my profession told me that I have to do my best to work with him.

One day while on shift, I went to check on this young man. I found him in his room. He had found a shard of something sharp, and used it to slash his wrists, and he wrote his suicide note on the wall in his own blood.
I was quick acting enough to stop this young man from losing his life, and afterwards I went home, poured a whiskey, and cried like a bitch. I didnt know what to think anymore. my beliefs about the 'type' of person who does such things had been wiped out.

This young man had been eaten away inside, he was disgusted, and angry in himself. He was afraid of the harm he might do to someone else through his actions. He knew what he had done was wrong, yet he had still done it, three times. the confusion and disgust and emotion had nearly killed him. he was genuinely remorseful, and wanted to change, but he didnt know how he could possibly change when he had done things he knew to be wrong in the first place.

I do not expect many of you to give much thought to the offenders, but do not make the mistake of believing the fallacy of a hard and fast persona that distinguishes all 'pedos'.

[Deano]

I ask you though, how many of the people who have responded to this thread have, as a result, gone and actually done something positive, like make a monetary contribution to an organisation that works with victims and or offenders? or get in touch with an organisation to see if you can be of any use offering yourself as a volunteer? - very few, if any is my bet. and that is half the problem, we are so consumed with airing our ill feelings, that we forget to actually do anything to change the things that apparently disgust us so much.

Raising your own kids to be good people should be enough of a contribution really. If everyone did that, would there be a problem ? How far back through the generations do we need to go to find the root cause, or is it all just a smokescreen to the fact that some people choose to be bad.

I was at a crossroads in my early 20's and my life could have gone on a way diifferent tack. Nobody influenced me but myself. I saw what lives 'the crowd' I was hanging with were like and thought that ain't for me. No volunteers or organisation assisted me with my decision.

So far I see that 'society' and 'alcohol' are to blame. No personal responsibility yet again. Pfffft.

Edit - I also struggle with the definition of him being a pedo - what if it was a vulnerable female of similar age to him. I think it is more about power, violence and lust than pedophaelia. (and no respect for fellow beings)

To add further - I have tried to positively influence a few friends or family that could have gone either way in life.

[Brian d marge]

Knockout King ,,,,Coming to a neighborhood near you

See details on You tube


Stephen

I hope it doesn’t arrive in NZ , I really don’t

[onearmedbandit]

and that right there is half the problem. the way we as individuals, and as a society respond to things.
our immediate response is 'I wanna fucking stab the little cunt' - a sentiment I shared myself.
If our natural response to such a thing was 'holy fuck, how can I help the victim, and what can we learn, or take from this that will lessen the chances of it happening again' - we would be much better off.

How can we help the victim? By cashing out the offenders right to exist. What can we learn? The quicker we wipe these offenders out the less attacks there will be overall. Lessen the chances of this happening again? See my previous statement. Yes we can help the victim by donating money and gifts of support and hugs. Yes we can learn by talking to the victim, their families, and the offender and his. But that's just one method. One method allows for repeat offenders, one doesn't. But our society doesn't allow for the more effective method.


As it is, it begins with a piss and a rage, we make a side comment about 'the poor victim', and become focused on the anger and disgust we feel towards the victim, that by the time we have managed to qualm our anger, we have resorted simply to typing on a message board how disgusted we are that such a thing has occurred and that the judge is a cunt for slapping the offender with a wet bus ticket.

This is, once again, a thread exactly about anger towards the offender. This is just like a conversation in a pub, in a dining room, a workplace, a sportsfield. Just like anywhere, online or otherwise, where people converge and chat. We are allowed to talk about our anger without having to feel guilty about doing so. Maybe that time and energy would be better spent on other more productive pursuits, but you can't stop idle banter.


I ask you though, how many of the people who have responded to this thread have, as a result, gone and actually done something positive, like make a monetary contribution to an organisation that works with victims and or offenders? or get in touch with an organisation to see if you can be of any use offering yourself as a volunteer? - very few, if any is my bet. and that is half the problem, we are so consumed with airing our ill feelings, that we forget to actually do anything to change the things that apparently disgust us so much.

I think Deano best summed it up with this...


Raising your own kids to be good people should be enough of a contribution really. If everyone did that, would there be a problem ? How far back through the generations do we need to go to find the root cause, or is it all just a smokescreen to the fact that some people choose to be bad.


there is no defined set of characteristics for those who commit sexual offences against children.
case in point.

Earlier this year I was working out my time in a fixed term contract working with at-risk youth.
the youth were there for a variety of reasons, and were housed in a house (3 youths to a house) with 24/7 supervision.
One young man came in who was 16 years old. the reason --- [snip] --- He was afraid of the harm he might do to someone else through his actions. He knew what he had done was wrong, yet he had still done it, three times. the confusion and disgust and emotion had nearly killed him. he was genuinely remorseful, and wanted to change, but he didnt know how he could possibly change when he had done things he knew to be wrong in the first place.



This is the difference between you and me. I would've been quite happy to have seen him extinguish himself. Call me harsh, call me callous, call me whatever. But the moment he offended against his 9yr old sister he quite clearly separated himself from the majority of the human race. Blame it on whatever, it doesn't matter, you are not a part of normal society. And yes that normal society includes liars, thieves, murderers even. We've all lied at some stage, we've mostly probably all stolen something that wasn't ours (even office stationary huh), and this thread shows that a good number of us would kill given the right circumstances. But it's a very small segment of society that even considers child abuse, let alone acts it out. These people are not right for whatever reason, cash 'em out.

[Ronin]

I was at a crossroads in my early 20's and my life could have gone on a way diifferent tack. Nobody influenced me but myself. I saw what lives 'the crowd' I was hanging with were like and thought that ain't for me. No volunteers or organisation assisted me with my decision.

So far I see that 'society' and 'alcohol' are to blame. No personal responsibility yet again. Pfffft.



My Father once asked me how I learned to be such a good father. I looked the cunt in the eye and told him I did the opposite of everything he did. So yes, you can change, if you are lucky enough to be self aware and self correcting.

[Ronin]

there is no defined set of characteristics for those who commit sexual offences against children.
case in point.

Earlier this year I was working out my time in a fixed term contract working with at-risk youth.
the youth were there for a variety of reasons, and were housed in a house (3 youths to a house) with 24/7 supervision.
One young man came in who was 16 years old. the reason he was there was because when he was 14 years old, he has molested his 9 year old sister three times. His sister never told anyone about it, and the only reason it came out, was because the young man had attempted suicide at 16, right before coming into our care (this was the reason for him coming to us).
When I read his file before working with him, I wanted to fucking kill the cunt, but my education and my profession told me that I have to do my best to work with him.

One day while on shift, I went to check on this young man. I found him in his room. He had found a shard of something sharp, and used it to slash his wrists, and he wrote his suicide note on the wall in his own blood.
I was quick acting enough to stop this young man from losing his life, and afterwards I went home, poured a whiskey, and cried like a bitch. I didnt know what to think anymore. my beliefs about the 'type' of person who does such things had been wiped out.

This young man had been eaten away inside, he was disgusted, and angry in himself. He was afraid of the harm he might do to someone else through his actions. He knew what he had done was wrong, yet he had still done it, three times. the confusion and disgust and emotion had nearly killed him. he was genuinely remorseful, and wanted to change, but he didnt know how he could possibly change when he had done things he knew to be wrong in the first place.

I do not expect many of you to give much thought to the offenders, but do not make the mistake of believing the fallacy of a hard and fast persona that distinguishes all 'pedos'.

They all have one thing in common. Choice.

[tigertim20]

This is the difference between you and me. I would've been quite happy to have seen him extinguish himself. Call me harsh, call me callous, call me whatever. But the moment he offended against his 9yr old sister he quite clearly separated himself from the majority of the human race. Blame it on whatever, it doesn't matter, you are not a part of normal society. And yes that normal society includes liars, thieves, murderers even. We've all lied at some stage, we've mostly probably all stolen something that wasn't ours (even office stationary huh), and this thread shows that a good number of us would kill given the right circumstances. But it's a very small segment of society that even considers child abuse, let alone acts it out. These people are not right for whatever reason, cash 'em out.


I will firstly say that I am not, even for a moment, defending the actions of anyone who commits a similar act, I just thought that my limited experiences may be useful as food for thought to some, that is all.

secondly;

I understand the sentiment totally.
Half of me would have liked to grab the shard and finish him off.
what does that acheive?
Id have liked to watch him die, but losing my career forever, and probably being criminally charged with negligence causing death isnt going to help anyone either. sometimes you have to swallow desire and do the opposite.
that day will fucking haunt me till the day I die.

this particular individual was so disgusted with himself he WANTED to die, maybe that means he has a chance, but thats another thread altogether and I digress. . .

I agree though that the common theme is choice, and likewise I agree that we all have a right to rage and be pissed off, but if I can encourage ONE person to utilize the energy they expend on rage, on something positive instead, then thats great.

None of us can do a single thing about the offender that fate now lies with the 'legal system'
we CAN however do MANY things for victims, preventative causes, charities and other organisations.

It is, however, your choice to spend your energy and focus as you see fit, and I respect that

[Monie]

its hard to say how i feel ..... sad for the family and pleased he handed him self in.... yep he did it the shit and he should pay . but how do we through him in the cells for what 15 yrs out in 6 then to do it again yep but i think shock treatment would be good to his nuts. and put on meds to stop the urge.....
am sticking my neck out here but i think a bit of it is has to do with all the doo goodies who tell us what is right and wrong on how we bring up our kids yep i do agree we have to stop all the abuse but hay i still think a good hard smack /wack it has not do us/we the old lot no harm ... hell i got the cane at school. these young kids need boundries.... we have a genaration of delinquintes growing up ...
thats how i feel ...

[scumdog]

The same little cunts would also break into peoples cars, but we all know the cops would much rather go after people with a noisy exhaust and lowered suspension.

Don't get caught doing a burnout in your car though, you'll get the car impounded for 28 days on the spot, a big fine and you'll lose your license for 6 months. Fucking bullshit.

Waa-waa-fuckin'-waaah!

Keep on topic and stop jousting at windmills.:rolleyes:

(And stop worrying about the penalty for doing a burnout in your car - you haven't got one, remember??:nya:)

[scumdog]

Personally, I'd like to see the teen buried alive, but I guess everyone deserves a second chance.

Second chance to do what??:blink:
He is a waste of oxygen IMHO.

[scumdog]

I dont know squat about the person arrested for what happened, only that he is 16 and has been raised (I hesitate to say dragged up) without the correct, acceptable values that most of us accept and expect as normal. Not his fault really, he is a product of his environment and culture.

.

Sadly Mom, 'somebody' has very likely been 'paid' to bring up this degenerate for the last 16 years - I guess there are no checks and balances in place to confirm the tax-payers money being paid out to this 'somebody' is being used to bring up a child in a positive manner...:no:

[Gone Burger]

We stayed in Turangi the night after this happened and the locals were very unsettled about the offender still being out there. In my motel I made sure the door was locked and the safety chain on the door. I guess something that settled me a little in an area where this twisted individual had played out his sick fantasies. The owner of the motel said herself that she feels the society were partly at fault for something like this ever happening. Yes the 16 year old was in control of the situation and his actions. But who knows what bent environment he has grown up in. No excuses and my thoughts are with that scared young girl and her family. Things like this make you really question what the hell is going on in society and how these situations ever escalate to the point that they do.

After 4 days away on the bike round the North Island I came home to an article in my local paper in Upper Hutt. A man twice convicted of rape was found outside a families sleep out with a young teenage girl sleeping alone inside. No harm was done but his intentions were suspected to be following suit of his proven past. There are some very damaged people out there and the mind boggles at trying to imagine how and why they are like they are.

Sick and sad. It seems to be the world over in so many different areas. Humans can be so disappointing.

[Winston001]

there is no defined set of characteristics for those who commit sexual offences against children.


.....I didnt know what to think anymore. my beliefs about the 'type' of person who does such things had been wiped out.


......do not make the mistake of believing the fallacy of a hard and fast persona that distinguishes all 'pedos'.

Bling sent. I was a bit simplistic and my thoughts were coloured by specific sexual abusers I've dealt with - very few thankfully. Generally those had personality disorders.

But there is no simple test, no obvious clues. Psychosis from being abused as a child is quite different but the puzzle is if something hurt you - why would you want to cause the same pain years later to another child?

[short-circuit]

http://tiny.cc/xwrcm

[Smifffy]

From the Cottrell case report:

"The short-statured teenager was supported by several family members, one calling out "mama loves you'', another "take care, boy''."


From the Turangi case:

"His mother shouted to him, "Love you, my son," as he was led from the courtroom."

Really? I might be cynical, but I don't believe that these people even understand what love is. Easy to say in a courtroom, try showing it for the 16 years beforehand.

[tigertim20]

From the Cottrell case report:

"The short-statured teenager was supported by several family members, one calling out "mama loves you'', another "take care, boy''."


From the Turangi case:

"His mother shouted to him, "Love you, my son," as he was led from the courtroom."

Really? I might be cynical, but I don't believe that these people even understand what love is. Easy to say in a courtroom, try showing it for the 16 years beforehand.

you know the family in question, and have personally seen how he has been raised for the last 16 years?
or is the underlined part a baseless assumption?

[short-circuit]

.....or is the underlined part a baseless assumption?

http://tinyurl.com/7vbjvmv

[Smifffy]

you know the family in question, and have personally seen how he has been raised for the last 16 years?
or is the underlined part a baseless assumption?

It's an assumption, based on the outcome. Yeah I've judged him, and his family, and I'm comfortable with my judgement. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe you are.

My world would be better if they were either to change or cease to be in it.

If they really loved those kids, the kids would know it, instinctively and unassailably. There would be no need to yell it out in an open court.

Once more my cynical self tends to believe that the affirmation was more for the benefit of the parents and the lookers on, than for the child.

As I posted before, Dad in the Turangi case blames alcohol. What's the bet he's had a few stiff drinks since this all happened?

[Smifffy]

you know the family in question, and have personally seen how he has been raised for the last 16 years?
or is the underlined part a baseless assumption?

Actually, we all know the family, there is at least one in every town, people even write books and make movies about them. I see the parents downtown every day. My wife sees the kids at school. There's not a damn thing we can do about it either.

How many parent teacher interviews do you reckon the parents in either of those cases attended?

How many of the kids school reports have they hung onto?

[tigertim20]

I have people in my Family who were given the very same up bringing as I was.
Me? have a degree, worked professionally with youth, and in youth justice, work hard, etc etc.
brother? - does drugs, has spent 8 out the last 11 years in jail, has NEVER had a job, is currently on home detention, with outstanding community work, on the dole, and regularly smoking drugs. he also has outstanding charges waiting to see a court room.
same parents, same house, same upbringing.

get off your soapbox.

[scumdog]

I have people in my Family who were given the very same up bringing as I was.
Me? have a degree, worked professionally with youth, and in youth justice, work hard, etc etc.
brother? - does drugs, has spent 8 out the last 11 years in jail, has NEVER had a job, is currently on home detention, with outstanding community work, on the dole, and regularly smoking drugs. he also has outstanding charges waiting to see a court room.
same parents, same house, same upbringing.

get off your soapbox.

'Must spread rep....'

BTW:
My old man ruled with an iron fist, I felt it quite a few times.

It was not pleasant!:no:

So I chose not to use it on my kids...

[Smifffy]

I have people in my Family who were given the very same up bringing as I was.
Me? have a degree, worked professionally with youth, and in youth justice, work hard, etc etc.
brother? - does drugs, has spent 8 out the last 11 years in jail, has NEVER had a job, is currently on home detention, with outstanding community work, on the dole, and regularly smoking drugs. he also has outstanding charges waiting to see a court room.
same parents, same house, same upbringing.

get off your soapbox.

Any of those charges involve murder/rape or sexual connection with a minor?

There's right and wrong, and then there is simply fucked up.

[tigertim20]

Any of those charges involve murder/rape or sexual connection with a minor?

There's right and wrong, and then there is simply fucked up.

Im sure we could all make our own lists, arbitrarily defining crimes in order of least to most serious.
Im also sure there would be a fair degree of difference between all those lists.

You suggest that the behavior of an individual provides a window directly into their upbringing, and displays a clear picture of the quality of their parentage. This is not the case.
both nature AND nurture contribute to the product of an individuals life.
My example above demonstrates that. nurture was the same, but the nature defined our different outcomes.

It is not possible to draw conclusions (with any degree of reliable accuracy) about a persons parentage or upbringing by focusing explicitly on a behavior (let alone a single act) that the person has exhibited.

[Smifffy]

Im sure we could all make our own lists, arbitrarily defining crimes in order of least to most serious.
Im also sure there would be a fair degree of difference between all those lists.

You suggest that the behavior of an individual provides a window directly into their upbringing, and displays a clear picture of the quality of their parentage. This is not the case.
both nature AND nurture contribute to the product of an individuals life.
My example above demonstrates that. nurture was the same, but the nature defined our different outcomes.

It is not possible to draw conclusions (with any degree of reliable accuracy) about a persons parentage or upbringing by focusing explicitly on a behavior (let alone a single act) that the person has exhibited.

I also have a family member who has been to jail, and his brother a successful businessman. He went to jail as an adult and made his own decisions that got him there. When one is tried in the youth court, the parents/caregivers/whanau/pc weasel term du jour must shoulder some of the responsibility. I guarantee they've been receiving financial support from somewhere 'for his care'.

Your brother may very well be a lovely chap too, but he doesn't sound like someone I'd be keen to hang out with. I'm sure he'll be heartbroken to hear it as well.

[tigertim20]

Your brother may very well be a lovely chap too, l.
Nup. He is a lazy, foul tempered little asshole who is only happy when he is getting his own way. have a go at him for buying weed and piss with his dole money, and YOU'RE the biggest cunt on earth.
I can tolerate him on friendly terms for a day or so at a time. - such is his nature.
he's a cunt, but he is my brother and I love him.:Punk:

[mashman]

Second chance to do what??:blink:
He is a waste of oxygen IMHO.

To join the human race.

[Brian d marge]

'Must spread rep....'

BTW:
My old man ruled with an iron fist, I felt it quite a few times.

It was not pleasant!:no:

So I chose not to use it on my kids...
not the reason you joined the force I hope?

In my house " I AM the law" ( Judge dread , of two tone fame !)

Three strikes and you are out .....

( until I’m over ruled by the boss , she who must be obeyed ........)

I have two of the most pleasant easy care well manner kids one could hope for...


Kids, as do adults have to have boundary’s because, unfortunately with freedom , comes its mate responsibility ....

Now can we get back to an old fashioned lynchin ,,,,

NAIL EM UP I SAY !!!!

Stephen Grunfuttock the turd , aka Ludiditcus de minimis non curat praetor

[HenryDorsetCase]

not the reason you joined the force I hope?

In my house " I AM the law" ( Judge dread , of two tone fame !)

Three strikes and you are out .....

( until I’m over ruled by the boss , she who must be obeyed ........)

I have two of the most pleasant easy care well manner kids one could hope for...


Kids, as do adults have to have boundary’s because, unfortunately with freedom , comes its mate responsibility ....

Now can we get back to an old fashioned lynchin ,,,,

NAIL EM UP I SAY !!!!

Stephen Grunfuttock the turd , aka Ludiditcus de minimis non curat praetor

It's Dredd. Judge Dredd.

[pete376403]

I have people in my Family who were given the very same up bringing as I was.
Me? have a degree, worked professionally with youth, and in youth justice, work hard, etc etc.
brother? - does drugs, has spent 8 out the last 11 years in jail, has NEVER had a job, is currently on home detention, with outstanding community work, on the dole, and regularly smoking drugs. he also has outstanding charges waiting to see a court room.
same parents, same house, same upbringing.

get off your soapbox.

So which one of you is the exception - ie does a shitty upbringing result in shitty kids by default, with the good kid being the exception, or does the good upbringing result in good kids with the bad kid being the exception?

My own case, my brothers and I were raised in a manner that would probably result in court appearances and probably jail time for my parents, but all of us have turned out well, and raised good kids of our own.

[Brian d marge]

It's Dredd. Judge Dredd.

254061

Sorry , your thinking of the wrong one !

Stephen

[Berries]

It's Dredd. Judge Dredd.
Classic Dread.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/K5w8zV9Uoos" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[onearmedbandit]

You suggest that the behavior of an individual provides a window directly into their upbringing, and displays a clear picture of the quality of their parentage. This is not the case.
both nature AND nurture contribute to the product of an individuals life.
My example above demonstrates that. nurture was the same, but the nature defined our different outcomes.

It is not possible to draw conclusions (with any degree of reliable accuracy) about a persons parentage or upbringing by focusing explicitly on a behavior (let alone a single act) that the person has exhibited.

Would it be safe to assume that from a well-balanced nurturing and encouraging environment if little Johnny started displaying signs of violence, anger etc mum and dad would seek guidance for him, whereas from a less caring environment the parents would not notice or if they did just put it down to Johnny rebelling? I realise that you are stating clearly the opposite from your own experience, but I'm willing to bet that a higher percentage of these offenders come from a 'neglected' childhood, per capita.

[HenryDorsetCase]

254061

Sorry , your thinking of the wrong one !

Stephen

the goggles................ they do NOTHING!!!

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.comicsalliance.com/media/2011/08/judgedreddmegacityjustice.jpg

[avgas]

I have people in my Family who were given the very same up bringing as I was.
Me? have a degree, worked professionally with youth, and in youth justice, work hard, etc etc.
brother? - does drugs, has spent 8 out the last 11 years in jail, has NEVER had a job, is currently on home detention, with outstanding community work, on the dole, and regularly smoking drugs. he also has outstanding charges waiting to see a court room.
same parents, same house, same upbringing.

get off your soapbox.
He sounds like he has done way more than you. Whats holding you back ;)

[avgas]

From the Cottrell case report:

"The short-statured teenager was supported by several family members, one calling out "mama loves you'', another "take care, boy''."


From the Turangi case:

"His mother shouted to him, "Love you, my son," as he was led from the courtroom."

Really? I might be cynical, but I don't believe that these people even understand what love is. Easy to say in a courtroom, try showing it for the 16 years beforehand.
Depends.
Are retarded children beaten until they are retarded when they are young? Or are they born that way?

It has been scientifically proven that rapists and murderers etc usually have something different upstairs. Some change over time, some a naturally f'ed up.
Would you have the balls to kill your kid if you found out that they were "defective". The mum could genuinely love her son.

[avgas]

To join the human race.
Let me know if we get to the end.

[short-circuit]

http://tiny.cc/21n38

[Brian d marge]

the goggles................ they do NOTHING!!!



Its amazing how quickly they can tidy their room ......


Stephen

[short-circuit]

http://tiny.cc/zt918

[Brett]

I don't care if he is sixteen or if he was drinking at the time. Anyone who can do that sort of thing to another person, let alone a child of 5 years old, should be dealt with severely. I don't want to share my oxygen with him and I don't want anyone else to become his next victim, such as in the case of Junior Tuariki (sp?) who as a young preteen callously beat the pizza guy to death and went on to commit many other offences once released from jail for that initial act.

[Brett]

The government has fucked up big time with criminal justice. I personally know several people who have been severely beaten by large groups of youths for no apparent reason, and the cops do fuck all about it. I used to work in a supermarket where I would often have to work late at night on Friday nights, said supermarket was right next to a big park. About once a month an innocent person would get very badly beaten and robbed by large groups of youths either in the supermarket car park or park itself, and fuck all would get done about it. The offenders might get arrested, then the courts just give them a fine and send them on their way. It's pathetic. The same little cunts would also break into peoples cars, but we all know the cops would much rather go after people with a noisy exhaust and lowered suspension.

Don't get caught doing a burnout in your car though, you'll get the car impounded for 28 days on the spot, a big fine and you'll lose your license for 6 months. Fucking bullshit.

I agree about the justice system being very impotent and ineffective, however remember that there are many many many cops who are equally frustrated by the court system. They spend the time catching the pricks, doing the paperwork, preparing evidence for the case and then the perpetrators are let off with pathetic sentences. Cops fortunately or unfortunately have to work within the bounds of the law. I have 2 coppers in my family, and many more that are aquaintances and I am sure that every time they are hit, spat on or have personal threats made (or all of the above) they wish that they could deliver some road side vengeance. I am sure that many of the cops who caught this 16 year old punk wish they could have driven to Rotorua and 'lost' him in a mud pool, however, everyone suffers when the legal system loses it's integrity. We rely on the cops to operate within the law. There are other forces that will work against this little maggot...when he goes to jail, you can be sure he will become some nasty cunts girlfriend. Karma just works that way.

[tigertim20]

So which one of you is the exception - ie does a shitty upbringing result in shitty kids by default, with the good kid being the exception, or does the good upbringing result in good kids with the bad kid being the exception?

My own case, my brothers and I were raised in a manner that would probably result in court appearances and probably jail time for my parents, but all of us have turned out well, and raised good kids of our own.
I wasnt necessarily arguing that one of us is the exception, I was pointing out that you cannot accurately gauge the qaulity of ones parentage simply by observing one's behavior. Your example exactly proves my point, that nature impacts as much as nurture in the resulting qauaity of a person.

Would it be safe to assume that from a well-balanced nurturing and encouraging environment if little Johnny started displaying signs of violence, anger etc mum and dad would seek guidance for him, whereas from a less caring environment the parents would not notice or if they did just put it down to Johnny rebelling? I realise that you are stating clearly the opposite from your own experience, but I'm willing to bet that a higher percentage of these offenders come from a 'neglected' childhood, per capita.
yes, it is absolutely possible.
I was making my points in response to someone who was suggesting that they could, from this sole act by the offender, accurately pinpoint the quality of the offenders parentage.
my parents did everything possible to help my brother, nothing worked, because he chose not to respond. its definitely possible it was a bad family who didnt care, but equally (and im gonna get flamed for this!) the kid came from a low income area, those kind of areas are already stretched beyond the limit when it comes to resources for social service organisations. the family may very well have cared,. and tried to get the kid help, but due to the low funding and stretched resources, its fuckin near impossible to get help for someone even in an area that isnt riddles with social problems.
I have rambled a bit, in short, yes, it is possible you are right

He sounds like he has done way more than you. Whats holding you back ;)
Call me snobby, but dropping the soap aint my idea of foreplay!!!

[nudemetalz]

The latest :-
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/6250357/Mother-of-Turangi-attack-accused-hounded

".....Through the prayer he asked God for forgiveness and to make him a "man without hate, anger and stress".

and we're supposed to feel sorry for him? :mad:

[Paul in NZ]

The latest :-
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/6250357/Mother-of-Turangi-attack-accused-hounded

".....Through the prayer he asked God for forgiveness and to make him a "man without hate, anger and stress".

and we're supposed to feel sorry for him? :mad:

Not really but we are supposed to forgive him.....

Its kinda hard though.

[nudemetalz]

Not really but we are supposed to forgive him.....

Its kinda hard though.

How do you forgive this ?

"..The Waikato Times has obtained photos of the 16-year-old drinking alcohol with friends and family and one picture with him expressing an anti-police message, from social networking site Facebook.
But the teen – who is charged with rape, burglary and sexual violation causing grievous bodily harm..."

and his Mum says he isn't like that....

and then you read:

"Injuries to the girl's head, face and body required four hours of surgery at Waikato Hospital, but she is understood to be recovering well, and in a statement released this week the family thanked emergency services. "

Sorry Paul, guess I don't forgive easily, especially with having 2 kids under 2. If anyone did anything to them they would learn to know what a 7.62mm lead injection feels like.

[placidfemme]

they would learn to know what a 7.62mm lead injection feels like.

+1

You get my vote for next PM

[Paul in NZ]

How do you forgive this ?

Oh I totally agree,,, I think my feelings on this type of thing are well known.

I am (I like to think) a reasonably compassionate person. I appreciate that this could (although I very much doubt) a one off or that this person is damaged for a variety of reasons. However I also believe that some things are 'unforgivable'.

Redemption or forgiveness is very much a fundemental in christian or western societies. Thats fine but somehow its gone too far and now its almost (for some) that because you can be forgiven then you can do anything because it will eventually be forgiven (if you say sorry) and you can be redeemed? I dunno - I really have not thought that idea all the way out but somethings gone horribly wrong.

No - in this case, even if what we have read is half true a very real and very defined line was crossed. I see no need for redeption here - uncivilised beast that I am....

[nudemetalz]

I hear what you're saying.

I guess the other thing is if we got hold of the 16 year old and (hypothetically) "dealt to him" in our own way,...are we any better?
He's done something horrific to a poor 5 year old, then we do the same (as in punish) to a 16 year old...where does it stop?

I know I've contradicted myself with my previous post, but I guess it's the society we live in now.
The jails appear to be a better life than what he would have normally.
The average cost of keeping a prisoner is $90K per year apparently (as at 2010). When he comes out after a few years (generalising),...what's he going to do?
Be better?
Are the wee ones in Turangi any safer since he served his time?

[Paul in NZ]

The real problem is our own decent natures.

How do we do what needs to be done without becoming worse than the evil we are riding ourselves of?

I guess suspending your belief inevil and adopting a more pragmatic approach? Sorry dude its going to cost too much to keep you for the rest of your natural life so heres a cyanide sandwhich.....

[SMOKEU]

I guess the other thing is if we got hold of the 16 year old and (hypothetically) "dealt to him" in our own way,...are we any better?
He's done something horrific to a poor 5 year old, then we do the same (as in punish) to a 16 year old...where does it stop?


The current government are criminals because they allow these people to roam the streets freely. The government know who the criminals are, they know where to find the criminals, yet they let them off with a slap on the wrist. Therefore the government is an accessory to the crime. Since the government doesn't give a fuck about car thieves, burglars, violent thugs etc it's up to the citizens to stop this thing from happening again.

A normal person will not go around beating up innocent children, and I can guarantee that this thug will continue offending once he is released back into the community. If people are unable or unwilling to act like a civilized person, then they should be eliminated from society. There is absolutely no excuse for this behaviour and he needs to be stopped before he finds another victim. It's a minority of people who cause the majority of problems, and sending him to prison for a year or 2 is not going to change his behaviour.

[Paul in NZ]

The government know who the criminals are, they know where to find the criminals, .

Yes they do - the ones who didn't vote for them

[thecharmed01]

He's not hard to find on FB... he has multiple profiles though. One has already been taken offline by FB, not sure why. Possibly as it was totally public and getting slammed with abuse.

[bsasuper]

Just go watch "Clockwork Orange" and all will become clear:devil2:

[Bikemad]

He's not hard to find on FB... he has multiple profiles though. One has already been taken offline by FB, not sure why. Possibly as it was totally public and getting slammed with abuse.
well give us a clue man.........

[Delerium]

The piece of shit is a good argument for capital punishment. Instead we get the tree hugging PC hippies that wont even allow us to house criminals in shipping container which is also a complete farce. I have lived in a shipping container in 36 degree heat when I was serving, If it was good enough for me its good enough for those in prison.

They have no rights. To be in prison they generally violated somebody else's rights. Shoot the prick and save the tax payer some money, and society some more problems in 15 years when the scum bag gets out.

[thecharmed01]

well give us a clue man.........

Clue.... I'll give you a URL but you'll have to PM me for it :bleh:

[RDJ]

Mean while the judge in the case is (reported as) saying some of the most insensitive comments to ever be said in a case like this from the victim's point of view...

...and in other news, another little girl appears to have been beaten to death but (sarcasm coming up) fortunately the authorities are (reported as) taking a measured approach; "There are a number of people that we now need to speak to in detail as Hinekawa has recently stayed at both the family home and with extended whanau. We fully acknowledge the sensitivities of cases such as this and it is important that people to not leap to conclusions and start pointing fingers prematurely," (the spokesman) said...

:confused:

[nudemetalz]

Mean while the judge in the case is (reported as) saying some of the most insensitive comments to ever be said in a case like this from the victim's point of view...

...and in other news, another little girl appears to have been beaten to death but (sarcasm coming up) fortunately the authorities are (reported as) taking a measured approach; "There are a number of people that we now need to speak to in detail as Hinekawa has recently stayed at both the family home and with extended whanau. We fully acknowledge the sensitivities of cases such as this and it is important that people to not leap to conclusions and start pointing fingers prematurely," (the spokesman) said...

:confused:

Effing typical !!:mad:

[riffer]

Mean while the judge in the case is (reported as) saying some of the most insensitive comments to ever be said in a case like this from the victim's point of view...

...and in other news, another little girl appears to have been beaten to death but (sarcasm coming up) fortunately the authorities are (reported as) taking a measured approach; "There are a number of people that we now need to speak to in detail as Hinekawa has recently stayed at both the family home and with extended whanau. We fully acknowledge the sensitivities of cases such as this and it is important that people to not leap to conclusions and start pointing fingers prematurely," (the spokesman) said...

:confused:

Hmmm... God forbid someone should get offended by a police investigation into a homicide.

[SMOKEU]

Shoot the prick and save the tax payer some money, and society some more problems in 15 years when the scum bag gets out.

You mean 2 years.

[DrunkenMistake]

You mean 2 years.

3 months with good behaviour... <_<

[tigertim20]

3 months with good behaviour... <_<

Yeah I blame this NCEA bullshit.
the guy counting up how much time someone has served obviously passed his maths under the NCEA regime. . .

[jasonu]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10779485

[placidfemme]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10779485


case had been moved to District Court level because of "the seriousness of the offending was such that no sentence in Youth Court could be adequate."


now that sounds promising

[jasonu]

The 16-year-old was again supported by family members in court today, including his father.

I'll bet this is the first time in a long time his father has attended anything (ie soccer match, debateing team etc) his son has been involved in.

[placidfemme]

The 16-year-old was again supported by family members in court today, including his father.

I'll bet this is the first time in a long time his father has attended anything (ie soccer match, debateing team etc) his son has been involved in.

My "unfounded" opinion is such: Earlier in his prayer he said "Make me a man". To me this indicates that at some stage his "peers" (Friends, brothers, uncles and possibly father) had given him shit for possibly being a virgin... could this have pushed him to do what he did? Does this now count him as a man, and if not then does pleading guilty and accepting his punishment make him a man? I don't know, just a random connection in my peanut brain :wacko:

[racefactory]

Where the fuck has personal responsibility gone these days?

Blaming it on everyone but the perpetrator- universal today. Stop the PC bullshit. Western society is sinking to ever lower levels of depravity.

[oneofsix]

My "unfounded" opinion is such: Earlier in his prayer he said "Make me a man". To me this indicates that at some stage his "peers" (Friends, brothers, uncles and possibly father) had given him shit for possibly being a virgin... could this have pushed him to do what he did? Does this now count him as a man, and if not then does pleading guilty and accepting his punishment make him a man? I don't know, just a random connection in my peanut brain :wacko:

He has been made a man, at least as far as the court the case will be heard in is concerned. He will no longer get told how nice he is looking today. A small step in forcing him to realise the consequences of his actions but a good move.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/6279884/Adult-sentence-for-teenage-caravan-rapist

[placidfemme]

He has been made a man, at least as far as the court the case will be heard in is concerned. He will no longer get told how nice he is looking today. A small step in forcing him to realise the consequences of his actions but a good move.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/6279884/Adult-sentence-for-teenage-caravan-rapist

Yeah I got that. And I think that is a great move taking it out of youth Court.

In regards to the PC Bullshit responsibilty comment before, I wasn't putting the blame on anyone, just stating an unfounded idea I had just in regards to the significance of his "Make me a man" comment. Personally I don't care why he did it, if he is fucked up or if his family is fucked, I don't care if he is black or white, rich or poor. The only thing I know is he is a monster, the trigger is irrelevant. Maybe learn something from this case and his situation to help other families in his situation, to prevent the same happening again with another young kid turning into a predator. But for this little shit, his chance is gone, I don't believe he can be rehabilitated and I hope he gets the full force of the law and that for a change the NZ justice system will keep him locked up for his whole sentence.

[baffa]

12 pages, and fill of people advocating cutting his balls off.
As tempting as that is, we dont live in a third world society.
Perhaps some of our members would be more at home in a country that punishes crimes with amputation of limbs, firing squad, and various other violations of human rights.

That leaves the grown ups to make and follow laws like intelligent beings should.

[oneofsix]

Yeah I got that. And I think that is a great move taking it out of youth Court.

In regards to the PC Bullshit responsibilty comment before, I wasn't putting the blame on anyone, just stating an unfounded idea I had just in regards to the significance of his "Make me a man" comment. Personally I don't care why he did it, if he is fucked up or if his family is fucked, I don't care if he is black or white, rich or poor. The only thing I know is he is a monster, the trigger is irrelevant. Maybe learn something from this case and his situation to help other families in his situation, to prevent the same happening again with another young kid turning into a predator. But for this little shit, his chance is gone, I don't believe he can be rehabilitated and I hope he gets the full force of the law and that for a change the NZ justice system will keep him locked up for his whole sentence.

If he can treat a five year old like that I too suspect he is beyond rehabilitation but if I was to pray for anything for him it would be that he could be rehabilitated because sooner or later he will be released.
A mother that goes to court to pray for her son to be made a man seems to have missed the point of being a parent. It is not for some mystic being or force to make him a man but it is up to his upbringing, that is his parents, the people they associate with and the people he associated with.

[SMOKEU]

Maybe learn something from this case and his situation to help other families in his situation, to prevent the same happening again with another young kid turning into a predator.

Punish criminals with harsh prison sentences, and the problem will be greatly reduced.


12 pages, and fill of people advocating cutting his balls off.
As tempting as that is, we dont live in a third world society.
Perhaps some of our members would be more at home in a country that punishes crimes with amputation of limbs, firing squad, and various other violations of human rights.

That leaves the grown ups to make and follow laws like intelligent beings should.

The current justice system is clearly not working, so something needs to change. The fact remains that there always have been, and always will be members of society who are either unable, or unwilling to act like a civilized human being. These people will continue to offend as long as they are allowed back into the community, and for people like that, the only cure is to lock them up in prison until they have proved beyond a reasonable doubt that they are ready to integrate back into the community and act like a civilized human being.

You can make people do community service, put them in an anger management course, give them counselling etc but if the offender doesn't WANT to change, then no one can force them to change. Offenders can be rehabilitated, but only if they CHOOSE to do so.

[SMOKEU]

It is not for some mystic being or force to make him a man but it is up to his upbringing, that is his parents, the people they associate with and the people he associated with.

That is still not a fucking acceptable excuse for behaving like an animal. If he was abused as a child, then that's sad, but it gives him NO right whatsoever to make innocent people suffer as a result. I'm sick of hearing the same old bullshit "it's not his fault he's a violent thug, it's because his dad abused him as a child" or "it's not his fault he raped someone, it's because his uncle raped him when he was 5 years old" or "it's not his fault for getting drunk and killing someone, it's because of the easy availability of cheap liquor".

If people have the balls to act like that, then they have the balls to face the consequences.

[jasonu]

12 pages, and fill of people advocating cutting his balls off.
As tempting as that is, we dont live in a third world society.
Perhaps some of our members would be more at home in a country that punishes crimes with amputation of limbs, firing squad, and various other violations of human rights.

That leaves the grown ups to make and follow laws like intelligent beings should.

So what do you think is an appropriate punishment?

[baffa]

So what do you think is an appropriate punishment?

This is a good start http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/6279884/Adult-sentence-for-teenage-caravan-rapist

We all want to go on a witch hunt when these things happen, but this isnt the middle ages anymore.

[BoristheBiter]

So what do you think is an appropriate punishment?

If it was my child he would have a conversation with a 12g.

So I would say execution is an appropriate punishment.

[BoristheBiter]

This is a good start http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/6279884/Adult-sentence-for-teenage-caravan-rapist

We all want to go on a witch hunt when these things happen, but this isnt the middle ages anymore.

Maybe it should be?

[SMOKEU]

We all want to go on a witch hunt when these things happen, but this isnt the middle ages anymore.

If you become a victim of crime you'll change your tune. Just wait till you have a vehicle stolen or get beaten up and robbed and then I bet you'll be the first to want justice. Real, hard justice, not a pathetic fine or a few months imprisonment.

[oneofsix]

If you become a victim of crime you'll change your tune. Just wait till you have a vehicle stolen or get beaten up and robbed and then I bet you'll be the first to want justice. Real, hard justice, not a pathetic fine or a few months imprisonment.

That is presuming they can spare an officer to investigate and catch someone first, there might be an unregistered motorcyclist around :innocent:
See personally I would prefer them not to be given the opportunity to commit the crime nor to be in an environment where they feel they have a right to take what they want.

[SMOKEU]

See personally I would prefer them not to be given the opportunity to commit the crime nor to be in an environment where they feel they have a right to take what they want.

A mate of mine and his parents lived in Dubai, which is a big desert. Temperatures there are extremely hot during the day, and so my mates dad was telling me that when he would go shopping he would often leave his car parked in a car park, with the key in the ignition and the engine running in order the leave the air conditioner on. Petrol was very cheap and he had a good job so the petrol cost didn't matter. He would leave the car running for a few hours at a time, unattended.

No one would steal his car. He even told me he left a brand new TV and a few expensive appliances in the back seats in plain view while the car was in a car park for a few hours, unlocked with the engine running, and no one would steal anything. Why? Because over there people are so scared of getting caught, that crime is not a common occurrence. People know that they will be punished very severely, so they behave themselves. It's simply not worth the risk of getting busted just to steal a car or TV over there.

I once went to Singapore about 3 years ago for a holiday. I went on a pub crawl in a busy part of town in the early hours of the morning on a weekend. The pubs were very busy, and I didn't see any disorderly behaviour. Sure, a few people were a bit pissed, but I didn't see any violence or any antisocial behaviour. Again, this is because people fear the laws enough to behave themselves.

[oneofsix]

A mate of mine and his parents lived in Dubai, which is a big desert. Temperatures there are extremely hot during the day, and so my mates dad was telling me that when he would go shopping he would often leave his car parked in a car park, with the key in the ignition and the engine running in order the leave the air conditioner on. Petrol was very cheap and he had a good job so the petrol cost didn't matter. He would leave the car running for a few hours at a time, unattended.

No one would steal his car. He even told me he left a brand new TV and a few expensive appliances in the back seats in plain view while the car was in a car park for a few hours, unlocked with the engine running, and no one would steal anything. Why? Because over there people are so scared of getting caught, that crime is not a common occurrence. People know that they will be punished very severely, so they behave themselves. It's simply not worth the risk of getting busted just to steal a car or TV over there.

I once went to Singapore about 3 years ago for a holiday. I went on a pub crawl in a busy part of town in the early hours of the morning on a weekend. The pubs were very busy, and I didn't see any disorderly behaviour. Sure, a few people were a bit pissed, but I didn't see any violence or any antisocial behaviour. Again, this is because people fear the laws enough to behave themselves.

and not because they don't feel they need to? Fear only works so far and also it requires a risk of being caught.

[SMOKEU]

and not because they don't feel they need to? Fear only works so far and also it requires a risk of being caught.

If criminal laws are quite relaxed, then there will always be people who feel the need to take advantage of that. Hard core, repeat offenders know how to play "the system", they know exactly what to do (and what not to do), and they end up getting a free court appointed lawyer (at the expense of tax payers), and said lawyer will say "your honour, please don't send my client to jail because he had a hard life as a child, his mother was a crack whore while she was pregnant with him and his father beat him up often, so go easy on him".

If people know that they are likely to spend a few years confined to a small prison cell for breaking into someones house or stealing a car, then offending will reduce by a substantial amount. Those who are foolish enough to offend anyway, will then end up in a small prison cell for a few years and therefore are removed from society, and are unable to do any more damage for the period of time they are incarcerated. It's so simple.

[avgas]

This is a good start http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/6279884/Adult-sentence-for-teenage-caravan-rapist
We all want to go on a witch hunt when these things happen, but this isnt the middle ages anymore.
Bet you $20 I know what he does after he gets out.

[Ferkletastic]

Bet you $20 I know what he does after he gets out.

Disneyland?

I guess he'll spend most of his sentance in segregation due to the threat of reprisals from other inmates, so he'll probably be quite the space cadet (I mean obviously he's super mentally stable at the moment...).

[awa355]

If criminal laws are quite relaxed, then there will always be people who feel the need to take advantage of that. Hard core, repeat offenders know how to play "the system", they know exactly what to do (and what not to do), and they end up getting a free court appointed lawyer (at the expense of tax payers), and said lawyer will say "your honour, please don't send my client to jail because he had a hard life as a child, his mother was a crack whore while she was pregnant with him and his father beat him up often, so go easy on him".

If people know that they are likely to spend a few years confined to a small prison cell for breaking into someones house or stealing a car, then offending will reduce by a substantial amount. Those who are foolish enough to offend anyway, will then end up in a small prison cell for a few years and therefore are removed from society, and are unable to do any more damage for the period of time they are incarcerated. It's so simple.

I can tell you, that most crims dont consider the consequences of getting caught. They dont think about getting caught.

This offender will be in with more of his kind, He will be with similar midsets, he will simply be one of the 'boys'. All violent offenders have an automatic right to apply for parole within 5 months of completeing their 1/3rd of their sentance. If this mongrel gets 9 years, ( he pleaded guilty, so will get time reduced for that ) he will be elligible for parole after 3 yrs.

Violent offenders used to have to go 2/3rd's before considered for parole. You can thank the previous govt for bringing in the changes. Longer sentences for the few extreme, and countered with less compulsary time for the majority.

[SMOKEU]

Violent offenders used to have to go 2/3rd's before considered for parole. You can thank the previous govt for bringing in the changes. Longer sentences for the few extreme, and countered with less compulsary time for the majority.

People keep blaming the previous Labour government, but it's got nothing to do with them. What has National done about crime in NZ? They've brought about that 3 strikes rule, but that only affects the most serious offenders. It doesn't do anything about thieves and people who go around beating other people up. National have been around for 1 full term and yet they've achieved fuck all in that time. They're a bunch of corrupt cunts who don't deserve to be in power.

[baffa]

Dont get me wrong. There are times when I wonder what life would be like if the government controlled who was allowed to breed, and serious criminals were simply exterminated. But the measure of a society is it's poorest member.

Keep in mind you're all advocating murder and castration, not to mention torture for this boy.
If we keep following that logic, what punishment do we mete out to burglars and people charged for assault? cutting a hand off?

Ok, lets keep this going. What do we cut off people who break other laws, such as road rules?

Most of you have driven above the speed limits or dangerously at least once in your life. Perhaps we should take your licenses permanantly.

Let me guess. You say they are completely different, and you have some god given right to break the law. After all it harms noone if you speed, or do a little benefit fraud, or lie about the amount of contents that was stolen to your insurance company etc etc.

Back on topic, charging this kid as an adult may as well be a death sentance. Pedos dont tend to fare well in prison.

[BoristheBiter]

Dont get me wrong. There are times when I wonder what life would be like if the government controlled who was allowed to breed, and serious criminals were simply exterminated. But the measure of a society is it's poorest member.

Keep in mind you're all advocating murder and castration, not to mention torture for this boy.
If we keep following that logic, what punishment do we mete out to burglars and people charged for assault? cutting a hand off?

Ok, lets keep this going. What do we cut off people who break other laws, such as road rules?

Most of you have driven above the speed limits or dangerously at least once in your life. Perhaps we should take your licenses permanantly.

Let me guess. You say they are completely different, and you have some god given right to break the law. After all it harms noone if you speed, or do a little benefit fraud, or lie about the amount of contents that was stolen to your insurance company etc etc.

Back on topic, charging this kid as an adult may as well be a death sentance. Pedos dont tend to fare well in prison.

And neither should they get an easy ride.

What would you do if this was your child? let him off with a warning, tell him it's not his fault?
I'm sorry but if you bleeding hearts hadn't started down this pussy arsed road in the first place we might still get some justice.
I'm not saying that things would be different but at least they would be behind bars and not in a society that my/your children play.

I'm not talking torture, i would just put him, and those like him, down as quickly as possibly. or just leave them in jail, either way i don't want them in my society.

Why do you bleeding liberal types always have to bring in other laws to prove a point? we are not talking minor offences we are talking violent crime.
Crime that saw a child get beaten and rapped, now if you still want him in your society then fine but the rest of us want him gone.

[jrandom]

Dubai...

Live in a desert with a bunch of loony fundamentalist ragheads who'd be illiterate broken-arses if it weren't for the accidental nearby location of hydrocarbon deposits?

Fuck that.

I'd rather live near Maoris and pay insurance premiums.


Singapore...

Disneyland with the death penalty.

Went there once. It gave me the creeps.

Nope. Gotta say, I'm prepared to accept higher levels of crime in return for more personal freedom.

[SMOKEU]

Dont get me wrong. There are times when I wonder what life would be like if the government controlled who was allowed to breed, and serious criminals were simply exterminated. But the measure of a society is it's poorest member.

Keep in mind you're all advocating murder and castration, not to mention torture for this boy.
If we keep following that logic, what punishment do we mete out to burglars and people charged for assault? cutting a hand off?

Ok, lets keep this going. What do we cut off people who break other laws, such as road rules?

Most of you have driven above the speed limits or dangerously at least once in your life. Perhaps we should take your licenses permanantly.

Let me guess. You say they are completely different, and you have some god given right to break the law. After all it harms noone if you speed, or do a little benefit fraud, or lie about the amount of contents that was stolen to your insurance company etc etc.

Back on topic, charging this kid as an adult may as well be a death sentance. Pedos dont tend to fare well in prison.

What I'm trying to say is that REPEAT offenders should be punished much more harshly than they currently are. We have the diversion scheme for first time offenders of minor offences, which is a great idea because everyone makes mistakes, and everyone has done silly things they've later regretted.

What sucks is that there are people out there who continue to offend again, and again, and again. These people who keep offending are the ones who should be locked up for a very long time until they can prove that they are fit to return to society by behaving like a normal human being. It's very sad that we allow people to live a life of crime. Don't forget that everyone suffers, part of our insurance premiums for full cover go toward the risk of the vehicle being stolen or house being burgled.

If I'm speeding on the open road, then I'm not harming anyone. If I'm overtaking a line of cars at 150kmh, or hooning on a long straight bit of deserted countryside road at 200kmh, where's the harm in that? The fact is that when someone assaults another person or steals, then it is their intention to cause harm to the victim. Speeding on a countryside road is not the same as beating someone up as there is no malicious intent in speeding most of the time. Sure, I might fuck myself up by going too fast, but then again, I could also drown if I take up surfing, I could die if I take up down hill mountain biking, I could die if I decide to start paragliding, I could die if I go tramping and get lost in the bush. Shit happens.

[SMOKEU]

Live in a desert with a bunch of loony fundamentalist ragheads who'd be illiterate broken-arses if it weren't for the accidental nearby location of hydrocarbon deposits?

Fuck that.

I'd rather live near Maoris and pay insurance premiums.



Disneyland with the death penalty.

Went there once. It gave me the creeps.

Nope. Gotta say, I'm prepared to accept higher levels of crime in return for more personal freedom.

I wouldn't live in either of those places as they are filled with terrorists and have many extreme laws. In the Emirates it's illegal to have secks with someone you're not married to. Now that is fucked up.

What I was trying to say is that we could learn a few lessons from the justice systems of those countries. If people behave like animals, then they should expect the justice system to treat them like animals. If people go around assaulting others or stealing or vandalising their property, then they are obviously not showing their victim any respect. Why should the courts then show those offenders any respect in return? Did your parents ever teach you anything along the lines of "treat others the same way you would like to be treated"?

[FJRider]

I guess he'll spend most of his sentance in segregation due to the threat of reprisals from other inmates, so he'll probably be quite the space cadet (I mean obviously he's super mentally stable at the moment...).

I heard on the radio today ... Although he IS being tried as an ADULT, he will not be allowed to be put in with the "General population" untill he is 18 years old.

So at least TWO years of his own company ...

[jrandom]

In the Emirates it's illegal to have secks with someone you're not married to. Now that is fucked up...

What I was trying to say is that we could learn a few lessons from the justice systems of those countries.

You can't pick and choose, bro. Cunts who'll cut someone's hands off for stealing will also cut your cock off for rooting the wrong woman.

Be careful what you wish for.

[Smifffy]

Actually , I'm comfortable with drink drivers getting a 1 month sentence on the first offence, and convicted dangerous drivers doing time as well. Maybe then we might see a reduction in the road toll. Where would be the revenue in that?


Dont get me wrong. There are times when I wonder what life would be like if the government controlled who was allowed to breed, and serious criminals were simply exterminated. But the measure of a society is it's poorest member.

Keep in mind you're all advocating murder and castration, not to mention torture for this boy.
If we keep following that logic, what punishment do we mete out to burglars and people charged for assault? cutting a hand off?

Ok, lets keep this going. What do we cut off people who break other laws, such as road rules?

Most of you have driven above the speed limits or dangerously at least once in your life. Perhaps we should take your licenses permanantly.

Let me guess. You say they are completely different, and you have some god given right to break the law. After all it harms noone if you speed, or do a little benefit fraud, or lie about the amount of contents that was stolen to your insurance company etc etc.

Back on topic, charging this kid as an adult may as well be a death sentance. Pedos dont tend to fare well in prison.

[FJRider]

I wouldn't live in either of those places as they are filled with terrorists and have many extreme laws. In the Emirates it's illegal to have secks with someone you're not married to. Now that is fucked up.

What I was trying to say is that we could learn a few lessons from the justice systems of those countries. If people behave like animals, then they should expect the justice system to treat them like animals.

You forget those same people "we could learn a few lessons from" ... are quite happy to stone to death a woman that has been raped, because SHE had sex outside marriage ...

As JR said ... its all about options ... and the one's we have in NZ is take it or leave it. (and I'm staying ... )

There ARE processes to change the one's we don't like ... but if you cant be bothered waiting for any change, or trying to START the change process ... go to the Emirites ... :killingme

[SMOKEU]

You forget those same people "we could learn a few lessons from" ... are quite happy to stone to death a woman that has been raped, because SHE had sex outside marriage ...

As JR said ... its all about options ... and the one's we have in NZ is take it or leave it. (and I'm staying ... )

There ARE processes to change the one's we don't like ... but if you cant be bothered waiting for any change, or trying to START the change process ... go to the Emirites ... :killingme

I'm staying out of Muslim countries.

[FJRider]

I'm staying out of Muslim countries.

Quite a good idea ... as your Avatar indicates a liking (or intention) to breed with Police. Thus ... your likeing for PORK may make you "unpopular" there ... :innocent:

[terbang]

Well I know what my Saudi, fundamentalist and extremist mates would have done to this particular individual (though they don't really give a rats about a couple of islands in the Pacific). One thing for certain, he and all his cuzzies wouldn't get the opportunity to do it again if they were here. Chop Chop Chop...

[Brian d marge]

A mate of mine and his parents lived in Dubai, which is a big desert. Temperatures there are extremely hot during the day, and so my mates dad was telling me that when he would go shopping he would often leave his car parked in a car park, with the key in the ignition and the engine running in order the leave the air conditioner on. Petrol was very cheap and he had a good job so the petrol cost didn't matter. He would leave the car running for a few hours at a time, unattended.

No one would steal his car. He even told me he left a brand new TV and a few expensive appliances in the back seats in plain view while the car was in a car park for a few hours, unlocked with the engine running, and no one would steal anything. Why? Because over there people are so scared of getting caught, that crime is not a common occurrence. People know that they will be punished very severely, so they behave themselves. It's simply not worth the risk of getting busted just to steal a car or TV over there.

I once went to Singapore about 3 years ago for a holiday. I went on a pub crawl in a busy part of town in the early hours of the morning on a weekend. The pubs were very busy, and I didn't see any disorderly behaviour. Sure, a few people were a bit pissed, but I didn't see any violence or any antisocial behaviour. Again, this is because people fear the laws enough to behave themselves.

because in some country's, TS socially not acceptable
japan, you really don't want to go to prison here, you really don't
but we have one of the largest most corrupt organizations in the world
but street crime is next to nothing, drop your wallet with money inside it will be returned, with money still in.....
why
because people are not marginalized and don't feel the need to commit any sort of crime ( you still get a little )
you marginalized people and you will reap the results
but as for this case, I'm not sure he was right in the head, , you must have serious problems upstairs to even think of doing what he did
a big secure mental hospital might be the order of the day in this case
Stephen

[BoristheBiter]

because in some country's, TS socially not acceptable
japan, you really don't want to go to prison here, you really don't
but we have one of the largest most corrupt organizations in the world
but street crime is next to nothing, drop your wallet with money inside it will be returned, with money still in.....
why
because people are not marginalized and don't feel the need to commit any sort of crime ( you still get a little )
you marginalized people and you will reap the results
but as for this case, I'm not sure he was right in the head, , you must have serious problems upstairs to even think of doing what he did
a big secure mental hospital might be the order of the day in this case
Stephen

So because he felt marginalized it was his to rape a 5 year old girl?

Whether you are or not, you still know right from wrong.
When will people stop making excuses for wankers like this?

I do agree he probably is not right in the head and more likely will do this again if released so therefore should never be allowed out.

[oneofsix]

So because he felt marginalized it was his to rape a 5 year old girl?

Whether you are or not, you still know right from wrong.
When will people stop making excuses for wankers like this?

I do agree he probably is not right in the head and more likely will do this again if released so therefore should never be allowed out.

Nice try at twisting what was said but than you show you understand what Stephan meant in your last sentence.
The attack of the 5 year old had nothing to do with the marginalization comment. You both agreed that the attack of the 5 year old indicates a serious mental problem.
Sadly the more I see of these people that just can not be put right the more I think either locking them up for life or putting them out of our misery argument has merit. Trouble is I don't trust the lynch mob mentality to be able to differentiate between those that are too damaged to be fixed and those that are sensational cases. As an example I would think the lynch mob would have executed the Chamberlains in the Azaria case but now it is looking more and more like it was a dingo, in fact that was the conclusion of the very first inquiry until the interference started and it was after the second inquiry the parents were charged.

[BoristheBiter]

Nice try at twisting what was said but than you show you understand what Stephan meant in your last sentence.
The attack of the 5 year old had nothing to do with the marginalization comment. You both agreed that the attack of the 5 year old indicates a serious mental problem.
Sadly the more I see of these people that just can not be put right the more I think either locking them up for life or putting them out of our misery argument has merit. Trouble is I don't trust the lynch mob mentality to be able to differentiate between those that are too damaged to be fixed and those that are sensational cases. As an example I would think the lynch mob would have executed the Chamberlains in the Azaria case but now it is looking more and more like it was a dingo, in fact that was the conclusion of the very first inquiry until the interference started and it was after the second inquiry the parents were charged.

Neither do I trust the lynch mob, but i trust them more than the apologizer's. (yes i know that's not a real word).

And if you make and excuse for one you make it for all so no I didn't twist his words he said it quit clearly
"but street crime is next to nothing, drop your wallet with money inside it will be returned, with money still in.....
why because people are not marginalized and don't feel the need to commit any sort of crime "

The reason he did it like so many other criminal's is he chose to do it, no one forced him, he didn't need to do it to survive, he made the choice now he should have to face the consequence and at the very least he should never be allowed out.

[mashman]

The reason he did it like so many other criminal's is he chose to do it, no one forced him, he didn't need to do it to survive, he made the choice now he should have to face the consequence and at the very least he should never be allowed out.

Sounds like a law waiting to happen. T'would simplify things where ignorance is no excuse.

[SMOKEU]

It wasn't me who abused poor little Johnny when he was a child. It wasn't me who molested him when he was 8 years old. It wasn't me who was an alcoholic while pregnant with him. It wasn't me who caused his bad upbringing, so why should innocent people have to suffer?

If we can reduce this kind of behaviour, then maybe the next generation of kids won't turn out to be so fucked up because maybe they will have better parental guidance. Right now parents are teaching their children a life of crime, because that's all the parents know. We need to break that cycle.

Case in point. A few years ago I was working for a plumber, when we got called out to a burst water main in a rough part of town. It was by a block of shops, so we took the tools out of the van, and lay them on the ground no more than a metre away from us while we proceeded to work. Not long after, a Maori lady, no more than 20 years of age showed up with a small child, about 3 years of age. I'll assume that they were mother and daughter. They stood about 5m away from us, and the I could hear the mother whisper to the child that she should pick up some of our tools and walk away with them. The little girl then picked up some tools when she thought we weren't looking, and walked away with the tools. I then had to say to the little girl "Hey, give that back. It's not yours." I then had to grab the tool off her, and the mother looked very angry and walked away.

I have also seen road rage incidents where very angry people (usually Maori) are screaming and threatening other people while their own little kids are in the vehicle. So it's the parents teaching the kids to behave like this. If we punish the parents severely enough, then street level crime will be reduced. Right now some parents are encouraging their kids to steal and commit crime, because they know the justice system is too weak to do anything to a 14 year old who steals a car. It's a vicious cycle that is going to continue, and it needs to be stopped.

Even my dog knows right from wrong. We can leave our plate of meat on the table, and he won't eat it because he knows it's not his food. He is a very big dog, so he can easily grab food from said table (it's a pretty low coffee table). If I give him the food and tell him to eat it, he'll happily oblige. So if a dog knows the difference between right and wrong, why is it so difficult for some people?

[oneofsix]

because they know the justice system is too weak to do anything to a 14 year old who steals a car. It's a vicious cycle that is going to continue, and it needs to be stopped.


When they made that law change it was a bad move. They even teach this is schools and why is it the only thing these retards seem to remember from school.
I also think the bad temper from the likes of the mother comes from the bleeding heart, poor cheated moari, type mentality and the retards get to thinking they are 'owed'.

[SMOKEU]

When they made that law change it was a bad move. They even teach this is schools and why is it the only thing these retards seem to remember from school.
I also think the bad temper from the likes of the mother comes from the bleeding heart, poor cheated moari, type mentality and the retards get to thinking they are 'owed'.

A few years ago my neighbours went away on holiday, and their 14 year old son told his dodgy mates that the parents will be on holiday. So these dodgy cunts broke into my neighbours house, stole heaps of alcohol, jewellery, money etc. Cops went round to the offenders houses, seized most of the stolen property and these people admitted to breaking in and stealing (they were about 14-15 years of age). Cops couldn't do fuck all about it. We have a system that encourages people to become criminals, because from a young age they know that the police can't do anything more than take them back to their parents house. Kids these days are rewarded for being criminals, and since they learn this behaviour from a very young age, they tend to continue with this behaviour for the rest of their lives because that's all they know.

My old man was telling me that he was a bit of a troublemaker when he was young teen. He and his mates did something bad, the local cop arrested them, and chucked them all in jail for a night. He was telling me the jail cell was so dark he couldn't even see a finger in front of him. That scared him so much he started behaving himself and never got into trouble again. How's that for cruel and unusual punishment?

[oneofsix]

A few years ago my neighbours went away on holiday, and their 14 year old son told his dodgy mates that the parents will be on holiday. So these dodgy cunts broke into my neighbours house, stole heaps of alcohol, jewellery, money etc. Cops went round to the offenders houses, seized most of the stolen property and these people admitted to breaking in and stealing (they were about 14-15 years of age). Cops couldn't do fuck all about it. We have a system that encourages people to become criminals, because from a young age they know that the police can't do anything more than take them back to their parents house. Kids these days are rewarded for being criminals, and since they learn this behaviour from a very young age, they tend to continue with this behaviour for the rest of their lives because that's all they know.

My old man was telling me that he was a bit of a troublemaker when he was young teen. He and his mates did something bad, the local cop arrested them, and chucked them all in jail for a night. He was telling me the jail cell was so dark he couldn't even see a finger in front of him. That scared him so much he started behaving himself and never got into trouble again. How's that for cruel and unusual punishment?

would be considered cruel and unusual punishment these days but if the little buggers are on course for jail why not give them and early taste. Isn't that called learning? Crawl, walk, run or breast, mashed foods, soft foods, real foods and for most males hopefully, eventually, back to breast (but not for food). Instead we now have a free pass for youths system that says bring on the Fagin type child abuser as in Olive Twist.

[Brian d marge]

would be considered cruel and unusual punishment these days but if the little buggers are on course for jail why not give them and early taste. Isn't that called learning? Crawl, walk, run or breast, mashed foods, soft foods, real foods and for most males hopefully, eventually, back to breast (but not for food). Instead we now have a free pass for youths system that says bring on the Fagin type child abuser as in Olive Twist.

at least taken sort off looked after the boy , his life before Fagan wasn't so hot either
To address boris's concerns
marginalized people are just that ,out side of the main stream
ferals you may have them there by know large groups of people who have simply said " f k this for a laugh " and dropped out , why ? sick of pushing sh1t up hill.
add inter generational, and you get Mexico....yeeehaaa
( if you really want to find out read " five families a Mexican case study" that is New Zealand that is
not much of what you and i perceive as values are perceived in the same way by a marginalised group. ( see the strange rules prisoners have )
must work now . finish this later

[Winston001]

but as for this case, I'm not sure he was right in the head, , you must have serious problems upstairs to even think of doing what he did

a big secure mental hospital might be the order of the day in this case


Its a relief after pages of talking about this kid as though he is a normal 16 yr old to read your point. This crime possibly has some seeds in marginalisation (poverty, dysfunctional family) but at its core, it aint normal. 16 yr old boys do not lust after 5 yr old infants.

As said much earlier, these crimes are not committed by ordinary bad buggers - the thieves, burglars, violent drunks, vandals we are used to. Paedophile offenders are often of low intelligence, negative self-image, shy, and....a bit weird. Its useless for us to talk about them as though they'd understand our anger and the wrongness of the act. They do not think like us.

[BoristheBiter]

Its a relief after pages of talking about this kid as though he is a normal 16 yr old to read your point. This crime possibly has some seeds in marginalisation (poverty, dysfunctional family) but at its core, it aint normal. 16 yr old boys do not lust after 5 yr old infants.

As said much earlier, these crimes are not committed by ordinary bad buggers - the thieves, burglars, violent drunks, vandals we are used to. Paedophile offenders are often of low intelligence, negative self-image, shy, and....a bit weird. Its useless for us to talk about them as though they'd understand our anger and the wrongness of the act. They do not think like us.

What a pile of crap. Do you really believe this as you sound just like another excuse maker.

Just how little do you know on the subject?

http://crime.about.com/od/sex/p/pedophile.htm

Maybe he is just a plain old rapist and it just happened to be a child.

http://www.paralumun.com/issuesprofile.htm

Either way he should not be pitied, understood or to feel like it isn't his fault, he should just be put away never to come out.

A little girl had her virginity ripped away in a most violent way and you have the audacity to make excuses for him.
You and your like just make me sick.

[Brian d marge]

What a pile of crap. Do you really believe this as you sound just like another excuse maker.

Just how little do you know on the subject?

http://crime.about.com/od/sex/p/pedophile.htm

Maybe he is just a plain old rapist and it just happened to be a child.

http://www.paralumun.com/issuesprofile.htm

Either way he should not be pitied, understood or to feel like it isn't his fault, he should just be put away never to come out.

A little girl had her virginity ripped away in a most violent way and you have the audacity to make excuses for him.
You and your like just make me sick.

we are sorry Boris about the quality of communication, but its a big tree,
both links describe to me mentally unstable people
I don't think , speaking for my self, these people should be pitied. Treated yes , taken out of society yes, and the sooner the better

Stephen

[BoristheBiter]

we are sorry Boris about the quality of communication, but its a big tree,
both links describe to me mentally unstable people
I don't think , speaking for my self, these people should be pitied. Treated yes , taken out of society yes, and the sooner the better

Stephen

All the more branches to hang off then.

The links i used were for winston who said that Paedophile offenders are often of low intelligence, negative self-image, where generally speaking that's not true.
Iused the second link to prove he is just a rapist.

So i never said he wasn't fucked up some how in the head as i have agreed with you on that point early in the thread.

I just get sick of all the exuses used to make offenders feel better while the victums are left, generally with their lives shated, while these fucks are all ready back on the streets. Maybe we need to find the punisher.

http://lytherus.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/punisher.jpg

[scumdog]

shated,


New KB word 'shated' - to be added to garagre, sprotsbike and crusier...

[Smifffy]

Just got shated on.

[BoristheBiter]

New KB word 'shated' - to be added to garagre, sprotsbike and crusier...

:facepalm:
I know my spelling is bad but even auto spell check didn't pick that up.
Oh well glad to add to KB vocabulary.

[Berries]

I had a girlfriend once. Shated me in the end.

[Dieseldog57]

He will be sentenced in a adult court but institutionalized in a youth prison but one thing is certain his time will come when he is no longer a youth and then transferred to a adult prison and then only then will his life of ''HELL'' finally begin when he becomes someones bitch he will be raped and beaten and the torment will begin for this dog and he will wish he had died when he committed this horrendous crime on this wee lass.
Adult males are fathers and uncles as well no matter what there crime was.... they will see justice is done for sure.

[awayatc]

Adult male fathers rape...?

what a fucked up world .....

[Smifffy]

This is a good thing?

You call that justice?

I think it is no less sick and disgusting that what the kid did in the first place. I'd rather see the death penalty than that. Like it or not, eventually he will get out, unless he has a fatal accident in there, and when he does he will be more angry and violent than ever if subjected to that.

Don't get me wrong I have no sympathy for the little shit whatsoever and I see rape as wrong, but you seem to think it's ok under certain circumstances? In the right circumstances you even consider it to be 'justice'?

Just wow.


He will be sentenced in a adult court but institutionalized in a youth prison but one thing is certain his time will come when he is no longer a youth and then transferred to a adult prison and then only then will his life of ''HELL'' finally begin when he becomes someones bitch he will be raped and beaten and the torment will begin for this dog and he will wish he had died when he committed this horrendous crime on this wee lass.
Adult males are fathers and uncles as well no matter what there crime was.... they will see justice is done for sure.

[baffa]

All the more branches to hang off then.

The links i used were for winston who said that Paedophile offenders are often of low intelligence, negative self-image, where generally speaking that's not true.
Iused the second link to prove he is just a rapist.

So i never said he wasn't fucked up some how in the head as i have agreed with you on that point early in the thread.

I just get sick of all the exuses used to make offenders feel better while the victums are left, generally with their lives shated, while these fucks are all ready back on the streets. Maybe we need to find the punisher.

http://lytherus.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/punisher.jpg

I guess, if it was up to you, any mental patients would be treated like the good old days: http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/6297753/Deemed-insane-as-a-teen-for-being-gay

[superman]

He will be sentenced in a adult court but institutionalized in a youth prison but one thing is certain his time will come when he is no longer a youth and then transferred to a adult prison and then only then will his life of ''HELL'' finally begin when he becomes someones bitch he will be raped and beaten and the torment will begin for this dog and he will wish he had died when he committed this horrendous crime on this wee lass.
Adult males are fathers and uncles as well no matter what there crime was.... they will see justice is done for sure.

This is NZ prisons we are talking about, don't believe everything you see in American movies. Especially from a country that imprisons over 1% of its citizens compared to around 0.27% of the NZ adult population being imprisoned.

[avgas]

Especially from a country that imprisons over 1% of its citizens compared to around 0.27% of the NZ adult population being imprisoned.
Errr if you look at the stats a bit more closely you will realize your argument is invalid.
- Who is locked up
- For how long
- How much of their sentence do they need to do
- What are the punishments for the laws
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-IJLKh1nGmcQ/Tlvh77cHueI/AAAAAAAAA_w/p9MiBYBbPzw/s1600/YOUR+ARGUMENT+IS+INVALID+meme+collection+1mut.com+ %283%29.jpg

[avgas]

I had a girlfriend once. Shated me in the end.
Hate to be the one to tell you this
http://funcorner.eu/wp-content/uploads/justin-bieber-is-not-a-girl1.jpg

[BoristheBiter]

I guess, if it was up to you, any mental patients would be treated like the good old days: http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/6297753/Deemed-insane-as-a-teen-for-being-gay

Did I say that?

http://www.deviantart.com/download/215617030/i_think_not____by_blaze_tail-d3kdf5y.jpg

I said criminals should never get out.

[superman]

Errr if you look at the stats a bit more closely you will realize your argument is invalid.
- Who is locked up
- For how long
- How much of their sentence do they need to do
- What are the punishments for the laws

Yeah yeah I know, they've got people serving life sentences for stealing a few cookies and such. :blink:

[jasonu]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10788759

Fast work getting him banged up. I would have taken forever over here but he would have got 200 years with non parole of 99 years.
How many of the 10 years will he do?

[placidfemme]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10788759

Fast work getting him banged up. I would have taken forever over here but he would have got 200 years with non parole of 99 years.
How many of the 10 years will he do?

my guess would be 4, then freedom for about 6 months until he does something else...

[Hitcher]

He smells like a career criminal to me. I should run a sweepstake for what his offence that gets him reincarcerated whilst on parole will be. Will have to wait a few years for that, I guess.

[placidfemme]

He smells like a career criminal to me. I should run a sweepstake for what his offence that gets him reincarcerated whilst on parole will be. Will have to wait a few years for that, I guess.

I'm in! Can I pick assault while commiting an armed robbery?

[BoristheBiter]

I'm in! Can I pick assault while commiting an armed robbery?

My bet, male assaults female, after a year of public disorder and breach of bail.

[Smifffy]

you know the family in question, and have personally seen how he has been raised for the last 16 years?
or is the underlined part a baseless assumption?


Baseless assumptions FTW!:

The court heard how Marino had come from a troubled, violent background and dysfunctional family and was drunk at the time of the attack and could recall little of it.
He had been bullied, abused, attempted suicide and began taking drugs and alcohol from an early age, the court heard.
The families of both of his parents had been involved in gangs.

But the defence ruled out that attack was gang-motivated, and said Marino had been drinking over eight to 10 hours at an unsupervised party.

Judge Phillip Cooper said Marino had a dysfunctional family background involving drug taking, gang connections and alcohol abuse, but this did not condone his behaviour.

[JimO]

im all for shooting the boy but i feel that he is also a victim in this, somebody should be taking a good hard look at this kids family

[Number One]

Pedos dont tend to fare well in prison.

Bollocks! They are kept ncie and safe with their 'mates'. They get no counselling while they are there and no one challenges them on their behaviour either.

They spend their days telling each other that everyone else is crazy and that they are ok and what they did is ok.

Prison psychologists (though they are apparently trained and experienced) underestimate them and understate the risk they pose to society.

Whatever this 'poor boy' had to contend with as a youngun and however 'sad and tragic' his story, what he did is pure evil and he should be put down like the rabid angry violent dog he is.

And before you ask what if it was your son, father, brother etc etc...same answer. Quite frankly if they put my father down I would be sad on one level BUT I would mostly just be relieved that he wouldn't ever have the chance to do what he did ever again.

Just SHOOT THEM they are wasting our oxygen.

Too blunt? To unforgiving? You have to be with these sick fucks - they don't deserve mercy - they have none for those they hurt - your mercy for them only helps them to do what they do again and again and again.

[scumdog]

im all for shooting the boy but i feel that he is also a victim in this, somebody should be taking a good hard look at this kids family

Like a look through a 3-9 vari-power Leupold??

[jaffaonajappa]

Like a look through a 3-9 vari-power Leupold??


No.
More like a look over a claymore tripwire :)

[thecharmed01]

im all for shooting the boy but i feel that he is also a victim in this, somebody should be taking a good hard look at this kids family

Are you suggesting take them out too? If so I'm all for it.

Did you READ what that mental witch said about the way she 'raised' her kids???? I read this last night and wanted to slap the woman upside the head!!!
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/6502905/Turangi-child-rapists-mum-admits-failure


Ms Wall, a former Black Power associate, said her son endured regular beatings at home.

"I wanted it to stop but I couldn't because I was a hard-out alcoholic and it was the family versus me."

She described Marino as a "good boy, a little naughty. He was just brought up too quick, too young, he got into drugs and alcohol too early. I take a lot of responsibility of what happened, and for his upbringing."

The family was angry at her, she said.

"They call me a bad mother and [say] I have brought up horrible children. I'm deeply sorry for the little girl's family, she will go through trauma for the rest of her life."

Then they put in this crap so the public would feel sorry for him... and yeah, I feel bad that any child should have to have a life like that, but that's NO excuse for what he did!


His childhood was bereft of role models or strong parenting, and marked by excessive violence between his parents, and from his father.
His parents separated when he was 13 and he did not see his mother for three years.
He was badly burned as a child when his siblings ran a hot bath for him, because his mother was drunk.
The injuries to his hands required extensive skin grafts.
A family member sexually assaulted him when he was 9 and again when he was 15, the court heard.
Marino left Tongariro School last May. A month before he attacked the young girl, he attempted suicide after breaking up with his girlfriend.

Arrgh. It's ridiculous. People like that shouldn't be allowed to even HAVE kids.
She is a bad mother, she's the worst kind of mother - because she WASN'T one.

Then I woke up this morning to hear his Dad is in custody. Setup much? Bet he's trying to get back inside to protect his kid.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/6509740/Turangi-rapists-dad-held-on-assault-charge

[Zedder]

Are you suggesting take them out too? If so I'm all for it.

Did you READ what that mental witch said about the way she 'raised' her kids???? I read this last night and wanted to slap the woman upside the head!!!
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/6502905/Turangi-child-rapists-mum-admits-failure



Then they put in this crap so the public would feel sorry for him... and yeah, I feel bad that any child should have to have a life like that, but that's NO excuse for what he did!



Arrgh. It's ridiculous. People like that shouldn't be allowed to even HAVE kids.
She is a bad mother, she's the worst kind of mother - because she WASN'T one.

Then I woke up this morning to hear his Dad is in custody. Setup much? Bet he's trying to get back inside to protect his kid.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/6509740/Turangi-rapists-dad-held-on-assault-charge

They're all bad obviously and the Father has to be on hand in jail for further training/mentoring in the art of criminal practices.

[Number One]

Flawed plan innit...I thought sonny Jim was going to'youth prison'?

[MD]

Bollocks! Whatever this 'poor boy' had to contend with as a youngun and however 'sad and tragic' his story, what he did is pure evil and he should be put down like the rabid angry violent dog he is.

.

Agreed- evil, execute now, no further action required.
All the excuses offered about his upbringing and being drunk at the time are rubbish. He knew exactly how wrong his actions were as proven by his fleeing when confronted by the Mother and immediately discarding his bloodsoaked shirt. Yes, it was so soaked in the poor five year girl's blood that he had to discard it. These are the actions of a person totally aware he has done wrong and trying to cover up his crime.

[thecharmed01]

Flawed plan innit...I thought sonny Jim was going to'youth prison'?

He was tried as an adult, therefore sentencing would have to be also I would think.
And I doubt they will be putting him in a youth unit as I'd say he'll go straight to segregation for his own safety.

[JimO]

Bet he's trying to get back inside to protect his kid.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/6509740/Turangi-rapists-dad-held-on-assault-charge

he hasnt worried about protecting him so far

[thecharmed01]

he hasnt worried about protecting him so far

Nah but now he's screwed up so bad that everyone knows him and knows his family.... Gotta be worth a few brownie points right hahaha

Ugh, reality is, that the kid didn't stand a chance.
Alcoholic useless 'mother' and a next to useless father.. gang connections.. parents with criminal history.. abuse.. neglect.. sexual abuse.. the list goes on. The scariest part is, really it was never going to be a case of 'will he become an offender' but 'WHEN will he become an offender' and yet no one did anything to prevent it. Not his "family" not CYFS not anyone.
He was always going to offend in some way, and it was always highly likely to be sexually motivated because of his past abuses.
It's just gutting no one bothered to DO anything to help or protect this kid before it was too late, and tried to stop the cycle of violence and abuse BEFORE an innocent little girl had her life (and her families) torn apart!

[placidfemme]

Ok this making excuses bullshit has got to me now.

I know 7 people born and raised in NZ, both male and female, all of which come from Alcoholic, druggie and abusive families, some of which have suffered terrible sexual abuse from the age of 3, by Uncles, brothers and fathers, when they trusted me with their histories and told me of the abuse they have been through I literally cried, things I can't imagine and could never in a million years wish on my worst enemy. I've watched them over the last 10 years struggle with this, watched them go through alcohol and drug abuse and pull themselves out it. None of them have abused another being, none of them have blamed their past for the direction their lives headed. They are all amazing people, and they all "know" right from wrong.

This blaming his past and the abuses he has been through is pathetic. It's weak and it's simply an excuse in my book. This little fuck knows right from wrong. By the way you people make excuses for him comes across as a justification. There is no justification for this crime. He deserves more than 10 years and quite frankly in his case I would support the death penalty. He will not be rehabilitated, he will have people all over the show telling him it's not his fault because of his past, he will hold no remorse and in the end because of this he WILL re-offend.

Stop depending the little shit and hold him 100% accountable for his actions.

He is a monster, nothing more and nothing less.

[Number One]

Ok this making excuses bullshit has got to me now.

I know 7 people born and raised in NZ, both male and female, all of which come from Alcoholic, druggie and abusive families, some of which have suffered terrible sexual abuse from the age of 3, by Uncles, brothers and fathers, when they trusted me with their histories and told me of the abuse they have been through I literally cried, things I can't imagine and could never in a million years wish on my worst enemy. I've watched them over the last 10 years struggle with this, watched them go through alcohol and drug abuse and pull themselves out it. None of them have abused another being, none of them have blamed their past for the direction their lives headed. They are all amazing people, and they all "know" right from wrong.

This blaming his past and the abuses he has been through is pathetic. It's weak and it's simply an excuse in my book. This little fuck knows right from wrong. By the way you people make excuses for him comes across as a justification. There is no justification for this crime. He deserves more than 10 years and quite frankly in his case I would support the death penalty. He will not be rehabilitated, he will have people all over the show telling him it's not his fault because of his past, he will hold no remorse and in the end because of this he WILL re-offend.

Stop defending the little shit and hold him 100% accountable for his actions.

He is a monster, nothing more and nothing less.


10 mutha fuckin chars! These people aren't to be underestimated they need to be dealt with swiftly and harshly AND PUBLICLY. End of

Btw I fixed your spelling mistake. They defending him not depending - u r welcome ;)

[Edbear]

10 mutha fuckin chars! These people aren't to be underestimated they need to be dealt with swiftly and harshly AND PUBLICLY. End of

Btw I fixed your spelling mistake. They defending him not depending - u r welcome ;)

I have seen both outcomes in several families. Two brothers who went through stuff that would kill some people. They both survived but one has turned his life around and is dealing with his issues and turning out to be a hard working asset to the community whereas his brother is a drugged and drunk screwed up individual. We still try to help him but he's burned a few bridges over the years and it may be only when he gets himself into trouble with the law that he may wake up.

Their mother endured a life that makes me amazed she has any sanity left! But she and her 2nd husband are nice people who work hard.

It all depends on the heart of the person.

[Number One]

I have seen both outcomes in several families. Two brothers who went through stuff that would kill some people. They both survived but one has turned his life around and is dealing with his issues and turning out to be a hard working asset to the community whereas his brother is a drugged and drunk screwed up individual. We still try to help him but he's burned a few bridges over the years and it may be only when he gets himself into trouble with the law that he may wake up.

Their mother endured a life that makes me amazed she has any sanity left! But she and her 2nd husband are nice people who work hard.

It all depends on the heart of the person.

Im not interested in the 'heart' of a child rapist...

[Edbear]

Im not interested in the 'heart' of a child rapist...

Please don't misunderstand me. It depends on the heart as to how one turns out having had similar history. Some can turn out good people, some turn out to be monsters. In this case I would think that not even his mother or father would do what he did and probably not amy other family member.

Sure they let him down and are hardly an example for anyone, but it was the boy's choice to do what he did. Understanding does not mean condoning.

[BoristheBiter]

Im not interested in the 'heart' of a child rapist...

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Number One again.

[Number One]

Please don't misunderstand me. It depends on the heart as to how one turns out having had similar history. Some can turn out good people, some turn out to be monsters. In this case I would think that not even his mother or father would do what he did and probably not amy other family member.

Sure they let him down and are hardly an example for anyone, but it was the boy's choice to do what he did. Understanding does not mean condoning.

I understood you perfectly and agree. I don't suggest that all victims turn into animals like this evil sick young man either so don't misunderstand me. I believe that child rapists deserve no allowances, rationalisations, second chances or humanity because they've had it tough. They need to be elinated / kept incarcerated whatever so they aren't ticking time bombs in decent and innocent peoples society.

[JimO]

Im not interested in the 'heart' of a child rapist... ok so what if the girl victim in this case grows up to be a murderer??