World lacks enough food, fuel as population soars

[puddytat]

news.yahoo.com/world-lacks-enough-food-fuel-population-soars-un-151012418.html

So what are we going to do about it.

[george formby]

That link to me to a list of Yahoo items one of which was "easy meals for a week"

I'm planting veggies, fishing & farting into a tank.

[scissorhands]

I get 80mpg in my car and am refusing impregnations of females

[puddytat]

Try & fix the link for a start:facepalm:

[mashman]

There's an extra full stop at the end of the URL you put in the URL link box.

So what are we going to do about it. (http://news.yahoo.com/world-lacks-enough-food-fuel-population-soars-un-151012418.html)

[Murray]

Nothing! The Gubbermint already tells me I'm obese

[Brian d marge]

Ban big business , ( see corn in America )

Hydroponics ( food can now be grown inside a building , such as Lettuce )

Aquaponics

Permaculture ( there are at least 7 layers of food to be had from a plot of land , and its NOT labour intensive , after all motthe nature has been doing food production for quite a few years now , and dhe seems to be doing ok)

and STOP WASTING FOOD

As fo birthrates , I think sonn in the future as large families are out of fashion , the polulation will come right

Stephen

PS

DONT SCREW UP MY BEER SUPPLIES OR I WILL GO APE !!!

[SPman]

What do you mean "We"...........



Got a .308 with scope?.........I can see 4 houses from where I'm sitting...........that'd be a start.........

[mrchips]

I have no kids thus not contributing towards over populatiion.

This entitles me to Keep my V8 car & 2 x 1000cc bikes full of juice at all times so i can ride asap. I am also contemplating adding a 1400 +cc bike to my collection. :headbang:

[george formby]

I get 80mpg in my car and am refusing impregnations of females

I've been faking my orgasms for years too.

[george formby]

I've met the next generation, they don't give a damn, so I bought a couple of 2 T's.

[Big Dave]

That link to me to a list of Yahoo items one of which was "easy meals for a week"

.

I enjoyed the NBA player airball free throw. I can do that.

[SMOKEU]

I blame mass over population of gooks and coons. AIDS (anally injected death syndrome) can only go so far.

[slofox]

If ya can believe the gubbermint propaganda, just put everyone on motorbikes and they'll all kill themselves.

[Mental Trousers]

I've been extolling the virtues of a Breeding Licence System for years.

[puddytat]

Well I cant even fix that stink link so Im no good for ideas am I....

Mr Moderator , Mr Mod.......

Being that we're such a fractious lot Im not holding my breath that w'll get our shit together to even begin a realistic dialogue on the subject. Seeing as this is thread is going to shit just like our planet, i will just keep on eating my own shit (composted of course).

[mashman]

Millenium Development Goals (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennium_Development_Goals)

Might need a little bit of formatting... NOTEPAD rules :)

In red from the perspective of a free Local NZ economy... and the rest of the world should they choose to:


Target 1A: Halve the proportion of people living on less than $1 a day No problem as money won't exist, neither will poverty. 100% Sorted not just halved.

Proportion of population below $1 per day (PPP values)
Poverty gap ratio [incidence x depth of poverty]
Share of poorest quintile in national consumption



Target 1B: Achieve Decent Employment for Women, Men, and Young People GDP will not exist. There will be massive unemployment. No money means every earns $0 per day. 1 parent will be at "home" all of the time (unless they'd like to work when the kids are at school). Decent Employment achieved based on the needs of society.

GDP Growth per Employed Person
Employment Rate
Proportion of employed population below $1 per day (PPP values)
Proportion of family-based workers in employed population



Target 1C: Halve the proportion of people who suffer from hunger Poverty will be erradicated, t'will be a matter of logistics and if they're done properly 100% not halved will be achieved

Prevalence of underweight children under five years of age
Proportion of population below minimum level of dietary energy consumption[13]

[mashman]

Target 2A: By 2015, all children can complete a full course of primary schooling, girls and boys Not a problem if you can build schools for free and you offer free education

Enrollment in primary education
Completion of primary education
Literacy of 15-24 year olds, female and male[14]

[mashman]

Target 3A: Eliminate gender disparity in primary and secondary education preferably by 2005, and at all levels by 2015 Hasn't that been done by now? WTF have we been doing for the last century? No money means the right person will be in the right job irrespective of gender.

Ratios of girls to boys in primary, secondary and tertiary education
Share of women in wage employment in the non-agricultural sector
Proportion of seats held by women in national parliament[15]

[mashman]

Target 4A: Reduce by two-thirds, between 1990 and 2015, the under-five mortality rate No money will give us the best chance at achieving this though there being more facilities, more doctors/nurses etc...

Under-five mortality rate
Infant (under 1) mortality rate
Proportion of 1-year-old children immunized against measles[16]

[mashman]

Target 5A: Reduce by three quarters, between 1990 and 2015, the maternal mortality ratio If that's possible by the birth being attended by a health professional or full pregancy care by a health professional, then train more of them for free and the problem should be addressed as best as possible.

Maternal mortality ratio
Proportion of births attended by skilled health personnel



Target 5B: Achieve, by 2015, universal access to reproductive health

Contraceptive prevalence rate
Adolescent birth rate
Antenatal care coverage
Unmet need for family planning[17]

[mashman]

Target 6A: Have halted by 2015 and begun to reverse the spread of HIV/AIDS Pah. Education education education... free education too. free healthcare for those who need it. Free researcher and materials costs for hunting for a cure, as many researchers as you like, not budget constrained.

HIV prevalence among population aged 15–24 years
Condom use at last high-risk sex
Proportion of population aged 15–24 years with comprehensive correct knowledge of HIV/AIDS



Target 6B: Achieve, by 2010, universal access to treatment for HIV/AIDS for all those who need it

Proportion of population with advanced HIV infection with access to antiretroviral drugs



Target 6C: Have halted by 2015 and begun to reverse the incidence of malaria and other major diseases

Prevalence and death rates associated with malaria
Proportion of children under 5 sleeping under insecticide-treated bednets
Proportion of children under 5 with fever who are treated with appropriate anti-malarial drugs
Prevalence and death rates associated with tuberculosis
Proportion of tuberculosis cases detected and cured under DOTS (Directly Observed Treatment Short Course)[18]



or give SMOKEU a big fuck off gun and a cloak of invisibility

[mashman]

Target 7A: Integrate the principles of sustainable development into country policies and programs; reverse loss of environmental resources If you're doing what needs to be done, then you'll be limiting the damage to the environment as much as possible. We have the technology etc... but it costs too much. If it's free then we can use it at no cost at all.


Target 7B: Reduce biodiversity loss, achieving, by 2010, a significant reduction in the rate of loss

Proportion of land area covered by forest
CO2 emissions, total, per capita and per $1 GDP (PPP)
Consumption of ozone-depleting substances
Proportion of fish stocks within safe biological limits
Proportion of total water resources used
Proportion of terrestrial and marine areas protected
Proportion of species threatened with extinction



Target 7C: Halve, by 2015, the proportion of the population without sustainable access to safe drinking water and basic sanitation (for more information see the entry on water supply)

Proportion of population with sustainable access to an improved water source, urban and rural
Proportion of urban population with access to improved sanitation
Target 7D: By 2020, to have achieved a significant improvement in the lives of at least 100 million slum-dwellers
Proportion of urban population living in slums[19]

[mashman]

Target 8A: Develop further an open, rule-based, predictable, non-discriminatory trading and financial system If everyone else will live money free, that will happen by default as we help each other out.

Includes a commitment to good governance, development, and poverty reduction – both nationally and internationally



Target 8B: Address the Special Needs of the Least Developed Countries (LDC)

Includes: tariff and quota free access for LDC exports; enhanced programme of debt relief for HIPC and cancellation of official bilateral debt; and more generous ODA (Overseas Development Assistance) for countries committed to poverty reduction



Target 8C: Address the special needs of landlocked developing countries and small island developing States

Through the Programme of Action for the Sustainable Development of Small Island Developing States and the outcome of the twenty-second special session of the General Assembly



Target 8D: Deal comprehensively with the debt problems of developing countries through national and international measures in order to make debt sustainable in the long term

Some of the indicators listed below are monitored separately for the least developed countries (LDCs), Africa, landlocked developing countries and small island developing States.
Official development assistance (ODA):

Net ODA, total and to LDCs, as percentage of OECD/DAC donors’ GNI
Proportion of total sector-allocable ODA of OECD/DAC donors to basic social services (basic education, primary health care, nutrition, safe water and sanitation)
Proportion of bilateral ODA of OECD/DAC donors that is untied
ODA received in landlocked countries as proportion of their GNIs
ODA received in small island developing States as proportion of their GNIs

Market access:

Proportion of total developed country imports (by value and excluding arms) from developing countries and from LDCs, admitted free of duty
Average tariffs imposed by developed countries on agricultural products and textiles and clothing from developing countries
Agricultural support estimate for OECD countries as percentage of their GDP
Proportion of ODA provided to help build trade capacity

Debt sustainability:

Total number of countries that have reached their HIPC decision points and number that have reached their HIPC completion points (cumulative)
Debt relief committed under HIPC initiative, US$
Debt service as a percentage of exports of goods and services




Target 8E: In co-operation with pharmaceutical companies, provide access to affordable, essential drugs in developing countries

Proportion of population with access to affordable essential drugs on a sustainable basis



Target 8F: In co-operation with the private sector, make available the benefits of new technologies, especially information and communications

Telephone lines and cellular subscribers per 100 population
Personal computers in use per 100 population
Internet users per 100 Population[20]

[mashman]

Trying to achieve this under a financial system with budget constraint and politically led leaders is impossible. It's taken 3 - 5 thousand years to get to this point and things aren't getting better. Time to wake the fuck up if you truly want to address these issues!!!

And on that basis, a question (on KB of all places :facepalm:): do you give enough of a shit for future generations?

[Edbear]

The world's current food production is capabe of feeding from 2 to 3 x the present population. It's not a problem of population or production but of distribution.

The food waste of the Western world would feed the starving in the third world. Nationalism and "commercial requirements" including greed coupled with Governmental corruption in most of the third world, (okay the whole world), makes certain millions of people are starving to death needlessly.

[SMOKEU]

The world's current food production is capabe of feeding from 2 to 3 x the present population. It's not a problem of population or production but of distribution.

The food waste of the Western world would feed the starving in the third world. Nationalism and "commercial requirements" including greed coupled with Governmental corruption in most of the third world, (okay the whole world), makes certain millions of people are starving to death needlessly.

The distribution costs are very high to send food to third world countries. Because many third world countries are a high security risk that makes things even more difficult.

[Edbear]

The distribution costs are very high to send food to third world countries. Because many third world countries are a high security risk that makes things even more difficult.

Yup! And it is the corruption and civil violence in these countries that mean it is virtually impossible to help them.

[Oblivion]

America- 20% of poplulation obese.

I can see the problem already... And thats only America.

Not to mention that Kiwis are already wasteful already...:confused:

[nosebleed]

or give SMOKEU a big fuck off, and invisibility

Fixed that for y'all

[puddytat]

The world's current food production is capabe of feeding from 2 to 3 x the present population. It's not a problem of population or production but of distribution.

The food waste of the Western world would feed the starving in the third world. Nationalism and "commercial requirements" including greed coupled with Governmental corruption in most of the third world, (okay the whole world), makes certain millions of people are starving to death needlessly.

Nah, I dont agree about the food thing & feeding the equivalent population of 14-21 Billion people & nor would the UN &
David Attenborough.
But I do agree with the rest of what you say.

Thoughts Ive had include
Seize all indebted property
Seize all money.
Divy out all the resources & money equally to every person on the Planet so no one feels hard done by.
Attatch rules so that you are not entitled to these resources unless you toe the line. (Sustainability)
Not pretty, but whats the option....
There is no easy fix but the alternative is a far worse scenario....social & climatic Armageddon.
And if you think that "she'll be right mate in NZ" the lady I heard talking about this subject with Jim on NatRad this arvo thought that we , because our country still has empty land & water, that we will be swamped by refugees.
We are not going to be able to shoot them all as they get off the boats,we simply dont have enough ammo.
And realistically none of us keyboard heroes would have the stomach for it.

[Oblivion]

Although people see it as a violation of their rights, an effective way for the world to continue in a sustainable manner, would be to live under a modified Dictator regime. The dictator make sure assets are distributed evenly from rich to poor countries, and everyone has a sustainable base income to live off.

The only problem is, That power corrupts and people would use it for their own gain.

[puddytat]

Although people see it as a violation of their rights, an effective way for the world to continue in a sustainable manner, would be to live under a modified Dictator regime. The dictator make sure assets are distributed evenly from rich to poor countries, and everyone has a sustainable base income to live off.

The only problem is, That power corrupts and people would use it for their own gain.

I agree. Dictators are dodgey. but what about a World Govt.? Along the lines of the U.N?

I also think we need an advocate like Eren Brokovich which could take those we deemed unworthy(politicians for a start) to the World Court on charges of conspiracy & corruption & no doubt charges of Crimes against humanity & gross incompetence for passing the buck for to long.

[mashman]

Yup! And it is the corruption and civil violence in these countries that mean it is virtually impossible to help them.

Does corruption breed violence or does violence breed corruption? I'm going for the first option as I see the two very much inter linked.

As for systems that require $$$, they will all fail. It will only take 1 person to value their commodity over those produced by others and the "weakness" of the consumers to throw us back into the current situation. New thinking is required as is a new system of living and value attributed trade does not feature, not in it's current form. As soon as we move to some form of commodity based value system supply and demand comes into effect and that's the game changer for just about any resource. Until we figure out how to share, yes share, we won't move forwards. Money is not the answer, neither is a commodity valued system.

[Edbear]

The Environment News Service on 12th May 2011 reported that 1/3 of the world's food production is lost or wasted each year.

The Wall Street Journal, Sept. 3, 2011 carried an article, "Can the world still feed itself" Answer? "Yes".

[puddytat]

Rrrrrrrrright, so some one's tellin fibs......<_<

[James Deuce]

So what are we going to do about it.

If some of you could die, that would be jolly helpful.

[Ocean1]

Let 'em eat cake.

[Kickaha]

We need a plague :doctor:

[Laava]

We need a plague :doctor:

I agree. But some medico boffin will find a cure for it!

Stop medicating.

Let the poor and corrupt countries sort themselves out.

[mashman]

I agree. But some medico boffin will find a cure for it!

A 2 week power cut would be an excellent wake up for a lot of completely soft society deadbeats!

So kill all of the doctors and researchers.

True, the rich won't be so happy then :) ... let 'em eat shotgun barrel

[Oblivion]

So kill all of the doctors and researchers.

True, the rich won't be so happy then :) ... let 'em eat shotgun barrel

Lead bullets. If the bullet doesn't kill them the poisoning to follow will :msn-wink:

[ducatilover]

and STOP WASTING FOOD


DONT SCREW UP MY BEER SUPPLIES OR I WILL GO APE !!!

I agree with both above points.


We have enough food currently, it's poorly distributed because every cunt is greedy.
If it's going to become a problem, people should become more self sufficient.
Hell, I'll start a vege place or what have you if there's a need.

The general populace is too bloody lazy to grow their own food and many rely on processed shite. We have the resources, ability and technology to produce decent food in abundance.



I'm off to fuck a tree.

[puddytat]

Maybe I should've kept it simpler & just made a poll out of it......

Real simple , 2 questions along the lines that kids can get e.g

Question :Can we fix it ?
A: Yes we can.
B: Nah, its fucked.


:wait:

[GingerMidget]

Simple way of looking at it.

Darwin.

[blue rider]

Maybe I should've kept it simpler & just made a poll out of it......

Real simple , 2 questions along the lines that kids can get e.g

Question :Can we fix it ?
A: Yes we can.
B: Nah, its fucked.


:wait:

you forgot option c: let them eat cake

[SMOKEU]

We need a plague :doctor:

It's called AIDS. Just as well it's ethnically selective. Most of the time.

[puddytat]

It's called AIDS. Just as well it's ethnically selective. Most of the time.

then you should be careful when your missus has it off with a bisexual male:laugh:

[mashman]

Maybe I should've kept it simpler & just made a poll out of it......

Real simple , 2 questions along the lines that kids can get e.g

Question :Can we fix it ?
A: Yes we can.
B: Nah, its fucked.


My 8yr old daughter believes we can fix it. I agree with her.

[mashman]

Lead bullets. If the bullet doesn't kill them the poisoning to follow will :msn-wink:


Nice ... perhaps a rusty blunt knife, or a spoon


you forgot option c: let them eat cake

that's covered under B isn't it?

[ducatilover]

Maybe I should've kept it simpler & just made a poll out of it......

Real simple , 2 questions along the lines that kids can get e.g

Question :Can we fix it ?
A: Yes we can.
B: Nah, its fucked.


:wait:
Sure we can, why not?

[blue rider]

can we fix it...depends

considering that quite a bit of the food production comes form industrial farming be it grains or meat, usually grown in one place and than distributed at the other end of the world.....no we can't. As Big Agribusiness will have no one piss in their money pot.

alleviate hunger by re-growing locally using local grains and planting methods, yes some of the hunger in this world could be reduced/stopped.

however this is not going to happen.


re obesity: it is not a sign of too much food, it is a sign of shit food without any nutritional value. only fat and sugar.

[puddytat]

And so do I Mashy......
See most of the 40 something demographic who frequent this site tend to blithely make fun of the scenario....
"Know that ye condem your children to hell on Earth whilst playing with thine baubles (should read balls) & they shalt curse you & tear down your image while tearing out their hair and teeth gnashing.For thou chose the False idol, Money over the true Master of us all...Mother Earth.Only then wilst thou learn that thou cant eat money & it tastes like shit''

[mashman]

considering that quite a bit of the food production comes form industrial farming be it grains or meat, usually grown in one place and than distributed at the other end of the world.....no we can't. As Big Agribusiness will have no one piss in their money pot.

So take Agribusiness out the the equation. If they're that keen on seeing death, I'm more than happy to take an Uzi to their next AGM. Someone mentioned that the current population could fit in texas. That leaves an awful lot of land to grow stuff on. We just can't do it with $$$.



alleviate hunger by re-growing locally using local grains and planting methods, yes some of the hunger in this world could be reduced/stopped.

however this is not going to happen.


I disagree. There's plenty of ways to setup vertical growing operations that don't require soil and we could quite easily put some form of rotation system in place to manage the grow... if it weren't for $$$ no doubt some people would do it because they enjoy the job.



re obesity: it is not a sign of too much food, it is a sign of shit food without any nutritional value. only fat and sugar.


Very true... but exercise can counter that... and to be honest, if someone wants to eat/drink/drug themselves to death and they're not hurting anyone else, that's entirely up to them. The body needs some form of food, we can live on rice if need be, we just need to do something without $$$ as an incentive.

[SMOKEU]

drug themselves to death and they're not hurting anyone else, that's entirely up to them.

But then they're a criminal.

[James Deuce]

And so do I Mashy......
See most of the 40 something demographic who frequent this site tend to blithely make fun of the scenario....
"Know that ye condem your children to hell on Earth whilst playing with thine baubles (should read balls) & they shalt curse you & tear down your image while tearing out their hair and teeth gnashing.For thou chose the False idol, Money over the true Master of us all...Mother Earth.Only then wilst thou learn that thou cant eat money & it tastes like shit''

As I've said repeatedly you're not willing to make the changes necessary to make a difference, so the only option is to take the piss. Ditch the bike, the car, any clothing with anything artificial in it, get off the electricity grid, and grow most of your own food, stop buying packaged food, and most of all only buy/barter goods and services from a radius of action easily traversable on foot and then you're making a start on what needs to happen to avoid your apocalyptically tainted, muttered, doom-ridden, essentially over-educated, intensely middle class guilt laden, liberal prophecy . Then I might be willing to discuss the situation. Face to face after walking to meet you. We'll drink home brew we carried with us, made from rainwater and locally produced goods, and "bottled" in home made kiln fired clay jars.

Most of the Western world isn't ready or willing to reduce their standard of Living to that of an Indian village dweller

But seriously, some of you pop off and die please.

[mashman]

And so do I Mashy......
See most of the 40 something demographic who frequent this site tend to blithely make fun of the scenario....
"Know that ye condem your children to hell on Earth whilst playing with thine baubles (should read balls) & they shalt curse you & tear down your image while tearing out their hair and teeth gnashing.For thou chose the False idol, Money over the true Master of us all...Mother Earth.Only then wilst thou learn that thou cant eat money & it tastes like shit''

heh, probably because they're similar to the rest of the worlds 40yr old demographic, and want to be normal, in that it doesn't and shouldn't affect them directly and their kids will be alright because they'll have been taught how to be self-efficient and will have daddies money etc...
That quote is bang on the money imho, we're going to leave a shithole behind us that is completely avoidable, no need to prevent it from happening though, coz we'll be dead. But this is KB :cool:

[puddytat]

As I've said repeatedly you're not willing to make the changes necessary to make a difference, so the only option is to take the piss. Ditch the bike, the car, any clothing with anything artificial in it, get off the electricity grid, and grow most of your own food, stop buying packaged food, and most of all only buy/barter goods and services from a radius of action easily traversable on foot and then you're making a start on what needs to happen to avoid your apocalyptically tainted, muttered, doom-ridden, essentially over-educated, intensely middle class guilt laden, liberal prophecy . Then I might be willing to discuss the situation. Face to face after walking to meet you. We'll drink home brew we carried with us, made from rainwater and locally produced goods, and "bottled" in home made kiln fired clay jars.

Most of the Western world isn't ready or willing to reduce their standard of Living to that of an Indian village dweller

But seriously, some of you pop off and die please.

well hopefully one day we will meet & talk about it face to face because it'll way easier to see that on many levels we share the same beliefs.
I am not suggesting at all that we become luddites,what with all the gizmos, education & technology & with what fossil fuels we have left ,now is the time to do something about it as its only going to get harder the larger the problem becomes.
As for making changes well I have made a few but to mention them here will only lead to you thinking Im being smug..... as well as all the other things.

[superman]

People die. Tis the way of the world.

Maybe we'll be smart enough to keep casualties to a minimum... doubt it.

[mashman]

Most of the Western world isn't ready or willing to reduce their standard of Living to that of an Indian village dweller

But seriously, some of you pop off and die please.

killjoys...

I shall oblige thee someday, but not just yet, sorry.

[jonbuoy]

So kill all of the doctors and researchers.

True, the rich won't be so happy then :) ... let 'em eat shotgun barrel

Mate we ARE the rich.

[Brian d marge]

As I've said repeatedly you're not willing to make the changes necessary to make a difference, so the only option is to take the piss. Ditch the bike, the car, any clothing with anything artificial in it, get off the electricity grid, and grow most of your own food, stop buying packaged food, and most of all only buy/barter goods and services from a radius of action easily traversable on foot and then you're making a start on what needs to happen to avoid your apocalyptically tainted, muttered, doom-ridden, essentially over-educated, intensely middle class guilt laden, liberal prophecy . Then I might be willing to discuss the situation. Face to face after walking to meet you. We'll drink home brew we carried with us, made from rainwater and locally produced goods, and "bottled" in home made kiln fired clay jars.

Most of the Western world isn't ready or willing to reduce their standard of Living to that of an Indian village dweller

But seriously, some of you pop off and die please.
talk to me , even in Tokyo I am working towards that

Soap
beer
whiskey
vege ( as much as I /we can produce , 60 POSSIBLY 70 % of our family’s needs THOUGH we rent a field at 5k yen a month ,,,
Transport bicycle ( and mobikes , but daily is bicycle )
Electricity , biodegradable nuclear
water , SHITLOADS , I mean SHITLOADS, all going down the sewer ...and I pay 6k a month for that
Meat ,,,dont eat much of that
Clothes ...well sort of gave those things up long time ago , some of this Chinese stuff ain’t bad
TV , PlayStation. big screen ,,,,Wii... sex ,,,sorry cant give that up just yet , but the wife is working on it

Bartering ..alive and VERY well here , nxt door gives us veges , we ( me ) fix cars and supply essential oils and labour ( in the correct french spelling)

This IS THE FUTURE FOLKS

Stephen

[mashman]

Mate we ARE the rich.

I'm aware of that. I'm willing to take my chances and as there are people much "richer" than me, I know where I'll be :)

[ducatilover]

Mate we ARE the rich.
:niceone: We are.

[george formby]

Poll :- option 2

"nah' it's fucked" for the time being anyway.

We have all the food & resources we need but at the current rate of squandering it won't last long. Without a radical shift in how we understand our life styles or the heavy hand of nature leveling the playing field it's all downhill.

I've worked in restaurants for years & for those who have never been behind the scenes the food wastage is appalling. At the end of a busty night their is sack after sack of leftovers going into the bin. Bizarrely a frequent topic of conversation over dinner is saving the planet. Our life is easy & gratifying, making changes which lessen these two aspects is anathema to the majority, regardless of how they feel about the future.
It's not as if council or government is trying to push the population in the right direction either, we struggle to recycle effectively up here let alone move towards a more sustainable economy.

[mashman]

Our life is easy & gratifying, making changes which lessen these two aspects is anathema to the majority, regardless of how they feel about the future.


I'm just curious why people think that the changes that are needing to be made mean that out quality of life will lessen? We have everything we need we just use money to pay for it. Even if there isn't any money, the things that make our life easy and gratifying will still be there. If not then why not?

[george formby]

I'm just curious why people think that the changes that are needing to be made mean that out quality of life will lessen? We have everything we need we just use money to pay for it. Even if there isn't any money, the things that make our life easy and gratifying will still be there. If not then why not?

I don't believe that quality of life will change, after all the only real change stems from us & the decisions we make, but I think peoples fear that it will hinders them in their decisions. Back in the restaurant, sensible people consistently over order on the menu & cannot eat their food. Very few make a decision to order only what they can eat & this is usually motivated by self perception. This is reflected all over in our society.

[mashman]

I don't believe that quality of life will change, after all the only real change stems from us & the decisions we make, but I think peoples fear that it will hinders them in their decisions. Back in the restaurant, sensible people consistently over order on the menu & cannot eat their food. Very few make a decision to order only what they can eat & this is usually motivated by self perception. This is reflected all over in our society.

So to allay the fear a little education could go along way? Good analogy. That's the thing that struck me a few years ago, I really haven't been thinking at all and was more than happy to follow wherever life took me. I'd rather have the ability to choose my decisions wisely and not based on the amount of $$$ in my pocket or the stupid laws that prohibit me from doing something.

I hope the Assange programme is made (http://uk.news.yahoo.com/from-underground-lair-to-chat-show--julian-assange.html) ... it could be quite an eye opener.

[george formby]

So to allay the fear a little education could go along way? Good analogy. That's the thing that struck me a few years ago, I really haven't been thinking at all and was more than happy to follow wherever life took me. I'd rather have the ability to choose my decisions wisely and not based on the amount of $$$ in my pocket or the stupid laws that prohibit me from doing something.

I hope the Assange programme is made (http://uk.news.yahoo.com/from-underground-lair-to-chat-show--julian-assange.html) ... it could be quite an eye opener.

Yup, learn to value the weight of our decisions & the consequences multiplied by a few million.

If I ever open another restaurant I might put the bins beside the tables.

[carbonhed]

http://www.rationaloptimist.com/blog/room-all

[avgas]

I blame mass over population of gooks and coons. AIDS (anally injected death syndrome) can only go so far.
It was the dutch, poms, Spanish and Portuguese before them.
Surely a "salty baller" such as yourself would understand that everyone has a go at taking over the world.

[buggsubique]

news.yahoo.com/world-lacks-enough-food-fuel-population-soars-un-151012418.html

So what are we going to do about it.

nothing at all. Poverty, death and war are inevitable. How else do you control population growth.

Actually, change that. Form strategic alliances to ensure survival of our own national interests and resource dominance, or at least access. Growth is the principal issue.

[droid]

[SMOKEU]

It was the dutch, poms, Spanish and Portuguese before them.
Surely a "salty baller" such as yourself would understand that everyone has a go at taking over the world.

But would you really want gooks, coons or jews taking over the world?

[avgas]

Its funny I had a conversation about this with a mate recently. He really did not like my stance on the matter that I believed the world has too much accessible resources.
His argument was if we have excess resources why are there poor people.
I simply stated they weren't poor enough. His look was shocked.
"What do you bloody mean not poor enough! Haven't you seen the starving in Africa!"
"Yes, but if you were starving in your own country.....why would you stay?"
"They have to! We need to help them! We need to.........(waftling on about how they need our help)........they have no way out!!!"
"They could walk or die, but instead they stay in beg, they aren't poor enough yet"
"That is a bad attitude!"
"That is the attitude that kept civilization alive for 1000's of years, do you think people magically appeared all over the world?"

It truly amazes me all the bleeding hearts who believe that man just magically popped up in places such as the America's, Melanesia....... we came to these place.......there was a reason.........that reason has not change.

Why should we try and save the arrogant who demanded they stay behind. Its trying to save beached whale that will never learn.

There is food in the world, the people need to be near it (geographically). None of this "the end is nigh" bs

[avgas]

But would you really want gooks, coons or jews taking over the world?
Same shit different day as far as I am concerned. Whoever takes over is going to be an arsehole about it. The poms, dutch, Spanish and Portuguese were horrible masters when you think about it.

[mashman]

Yup, learn to value the weight of our decisions & the consequences multiplied by a few million.

If I ever open another restaurant I might put the bins beside the tables.

cannot spread again etc...

Health and safety would pitch a fit... brilliant idea though.

[ducatilover]

But would you really want gooks, coons or jews taking over the world?

How are they any different? :bleh:

[george formby]

Its funny I had a conversation about this with a mate recently. He really did not like my stance on the matter that I believed the world has too much accessible resources.
His argument was if we have excess resources why are there poor people.
I simply stated they weren't poor enough. His look was shocked.
"What do you bloody mean not poor enough! Haven't you seen the starving in Africa!"
"Yes, but if you were starving in your own country.....why would you stay?"
"They have to! We need to help them! We need to.........(waftling on about how they need our help)........they have no way out!!!"
"They could walk or die, but instead they stay in beg, they aren't poor enough yet"
"That is a bad attitude!"
"That is the attitude that kept civilization alive for 1000's of years, do you think people magically appeared all over the world?"

It truly amazes me all the bleeding hearts who believe that man just magically popped up in places such as the America's, Melanesia....... we came to these place.......there was a reason.........that reason has not change.

Why should we try and save the arrogant who demanded they stay behind. Its trying to save beached whale that will never learn.

There is food in the world, the people need to be near it (geographically). None of this "the end is nigh" bs

Friends of mine made a point of popping in to say hello to the starving millions, people of action they are, in Africa & India. Walking through a town or village with kids dying on the streets, mothers pleading for them to take their children etc was heartbreaking but what really got to them was the wealth of the "upper classes", elders, priests, local politicians etc. The few were driving around in Mercs & Landcruisers no doubt paid for by famine relief & would ring their hands in woe at the "plight of the people". It's fooked.
Needless to say my friends now believe charity starts at home.

[buggsubique]

top notch post, thats exactly how it is. Corruption is the norm. Im off to Africa in a few weeks so ill be sure to post pictures of the contrasts.

[droid]

[SMOKEU]

How are they any different? :bleh:

http://picdump.darph.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/sisko-facepalm.jpg

[ducatilover]

black man's big hand
Fuck, that was no fun :(

[mashman]

"Yes, but if you were starving in your own country.....why would you stay?"


Would they pass immigration standards in any "civilised" country?

[SMOKEU]

Would they pass immigration standards in any "civilised" country?

Yes, England and Aussie are starting to get infested with third world scum, and NZ is on the same route. Islam has the ability to destroy a once civilized country like a great plague because those "people" behave like wild animals. Some of them can be domesticated, but the majority can't be.

Just watch this video here:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THrltK9cGo8&feature=g-vrec&context=G234c5f9RVAAAAAAAABA

[mashman]

Yes, England and Aussie are starting to get infested with third world scum, and NZ is on the same route. Islam has the ability to destroy a once civilized country like a great plague because those "people" behave like wild animals. Some of them can be domesticated, but the majority can't be.

Just watch this video here:

Propoganda 101 for racist idiots

... and the average catholic family has between 4 and 7 kids. The video may be a decent prediction of Europe in 2029, but the only way anything like that will happen is if our "leaders" let it, or indeed if the people of those countries allow our leaders to let it happen... and the leaders have a vested interest in letting things turn out that way, otherwise there wouldn't be any issues with race, colour, religion etc...

[george formby]

Regardless of my own feelings on immigration I find it very chewy indeed that swathes of the population in America, the UK & western Europe are up in arms when you consider the history of these regions. One eyed, no?

[SMOKEU]

The video may be a decent prediction of Europe in 2029, but the only way anything like that will happen is if our "leaders" let it

It's already happening, England used to be a good country but mass immigration of terrorists has turned many parts of it into a god forsaken hell hole. Remember the London bombings a few years back? That shit wouldn't have happened if it weren't for the Muslims being allowed to invade England. Islam is a violent religion, and I have no problems with Muslims as long as they stay in their own countries WHICH ARE NOT WHITE COUNTRIES!

Islam works well for them in their own countries, but there is no place for it at all in a white country. These people are animals, just check out the links below which are NOT SAFE FOR WORK!

http://www.bestgore.com/bloody-injuries/syrian-soldier-steps-on-landmine/

http://www.bestgore.com/murder/more-children-killed-in-syria/

http://www.bestgore.com/murder/syria-boy-shot-in-the-ribcage/

http://www.bestgore.com/murder/family-small-children-massacred-sunni-jihadists-syria/

There are plenty more videos like that but I can't be bothered posting links to all of them. Do you really want people who behave like that to live in NZ? Those animals go to other countries where they bring their own culture and problems with them. NZ and every other white country has enough problems of its own, we don't need any more of these people coming in and bringing their trouble with them. You probably don't think that this is a problem at the moment, but I can promise you that a violent Islamic revolution in a white country is not far away. I'm sure you've seen all the suicide bombings and civil unrest in the Middle East in the media, what makes you think that a white country is immune from that? Have you forgotten about the terrorist attacks in the USA in 2001? When they build up enough numbers in a white country, I can promise you that civilized countries like we know it will be a distant memory. If they're prepared to launch terrorist attacks in their own countries, against their own people, do you really think that they won't do the same in a white country, given the chance?

[george formby]

It's already happening, England used to be a good country but mass immigration of terrorists has turned many parts of it into a god forsaken hell hole. Remember the London bombings a few years back? That shit wouldn't have happened if it weren't for the Muslims being allowed to invade England. Islam is a violent religion, and I have no problems with Muslims as long as they stay in their own countries WHICH ARE NOT WHITE COUNTRIES!

Islam works well for them in their own countries, but there is no place for it at all in a white country. These people are animals, just check out the links below which are NOT SAFE FOR WORK!

http://www.bestgore.com/bloody-injuries/syrian-soldier-steps-on-landmine/

http://www.bestgore.com/murder/more-children-killed-in-syria/

http://www.bestgore.com/murder/syria-boy-shot-in-the-ribcage/

http://www.bestgore.com/murder/family-small-children-massacred-sunni-jihadists-syria/

There are plenty more videos like that but I can't be bothered posting links to all of them. Do you really want people who behave like that to live in NZ? Those animals go to other countries where they bring their own culture and problems with them. NZ and every other white country has enough problems of its own, we don't need any more of these people coming in and bringing their trouble with them. You probably don't think that this is a problem at the moment, but I can promise you that a violent Islamic revolution in a white country is not far away. I'm sure you've seen all the suicide bombings and civil unrest in the Middle East in the media, what makes you think that a white country is immune from that? Have you forgotten about the terrorist attacks in the USA in 2001? When they build up enough numbers in a white country, I can promise you that civilized countries like we know it will be a distant memory. If they're prepared to launch terrorist attacks in their own countries, against their own people, do you really think that they won't do the same in a white country, given the chance?

Resurrect the IRA?

[SMOKEU]

Resurrect the IRA?

No, like I said before, I have no problem with Muslims as long as they stay in Muslim countries. The simple thing to do is not to let them immigrate to white countries. They have fucked their own countries up so badly, so why should they be given the chance to do the same thing to civilized countries?

[mashman]

It's already happening, England used to be a good country but mass immigration of terrorists has turned many parts of it into a god forsaken hell hole. Remember the London bombings a few years back? That shit wouldn't have happened if it weren't for the Muslims being allowed to invade England. Islam is a violent religion, and I have no problems with Muslims as long as they stay in their own countries WHICH ARE NOT WHITE COUNTRIES!

Islam works well for them in their own countries, but there is no place for it at all in a white country. These people are animals, just check out the links below which are NOT SAFE FOR WORK!

http://www.bestgore.com/bloody-injuries/syrian-soldier-steps-on-landmine/

http://www.bestgore.com/murder/more-children-killed-in-syria/

http://www.bestgore.com/murder/syria-boy-shot-in-the-ribcage/

http://www.bestgore.com/murder/family-small-children-massacred-sunni-jihadists-syria/

There are plenty more videos like that but I can't be bothered posting links to all of them. Do you really want people who behave like that to live in NZ? Those animals go to other countries where they bring their own culture and problems with them. NZ and every other white country has enough problems of its own, we don't need any more of these people coming in and bringing their trouble with them. You probably don't think that this is a problem at the moment, but I can promise you that a violent Islamic revolution in a white country is not far away. I'm sure you've seen all the suicide bombings and civil unrest in the Middle East in the media, what makes you think that a white country is immune from that? Have you forgotten about the terrorist attacks in the USA in 2001? When they build up enough numbers in a white country, I can promise you that civilized countries like we know it will be a distant memory. If they're prepared to launch terrorist attacks in their own countries, against their own people, do you really think that they won't do the same in a white country, given the chance?

I'll give my 2 cents on this post, but if you wanna continue with the Islam bashing, create a different thread eh.

I live in the UK for 36 years. In my youf it was all IRA, not a whiff of this so called Islamic take over you're talking about. So your argument that that shit wouldn't have happened before the Islam announced itself in terrorist format on the British Isles is total and utter shite, or should I say shiite. Terror goes both ways, there are freedom fighters on both sides and both sides are as fucked up as the other where violence is concerned. Of the Muslim I have met they are contrite, must be lulling me into a false sense of security eh, humourous, loving, pretty much everything I am bar the pork, boozing and drugs... and I bet there are a few Mulsim that have done all three at some point. Do you reckon the Maori are glad that Whitey came here? Perhaps the Native American Indian embraced Whitey when he came along and started to butcher them? Maybe the Aborigines thought it was cool when Whitey claimed their land too? You're out of your tiny fuckin mind if you believe that Whitey is in any way superior to Browny, Yellowy, Blacky etc...

Start another thread, I'm more than happy to contribute further there.

[george formby]

No, like I said before, I have no problem with Muslims as long as they stay in Muslim countries. The simple thing to do is not to let them immigrate to white countries. They have fucked their own countries up so badly, so why should they be given the chance to do the same thing to civilized countries?

I was just trying to demonstrate that regardless of culture or belief all people will go to extreme(ist) lengths to achieve their goals.

You can draw parallels between the IRA & Muslim terrorists, same recruitment arguments, same religious intolerance, same violent solutions & the same people at the top manipulating the young, idealist foot soldiers to realise their own agendas. But most Paddys like most Muslims just want to get on with life.
Yet another ugly chapter in human history as people & cultures are displaced through war, conquest, famine, politics etc.

On the plus side, the Irish still have lots of road racing & the UK is my #1 destination for a currie.

[SMOKEU]

Do you reckon the Maori are glad that Whitey came here? You're out of your tiny fuckin mind if you believe that Whitey is in any way superior to Browny, Yellowy, Blacky etc...



Fucking oath they are, they were living in the stone age and running around killing and eating one another before whites came here and created a certain amount of law and order. The Maoris wouldn't have the unemployment benefit or any form of social welfare if it wasn't for the Europeans. They wouldn't have KFC, cars, mobile phones, TVs, modern healthcare, alcohol, or any modern luxuries that we brought with us. Every Maori I've ever met is happy to use modern technology.

Secondly, name 1 black majority country that is civilized with a high standard of living. I bet you can't. The whole of Africa is fucked, as is the Middle East. Most of Asia is poor and uncivilized with a few exceptions such as Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, and a few others.

So yes, in general whites are the more civilized and developed race. You can't even begin to deny that fact with indisputable evidence. Just try, I'm going to sit back and watch as you attempt and prove me wrong. And yes, I know that there are good, honest Maoris out there and there are bad, thieving, child molesting whites as well.

[george formby]

Fucking oath they are, they were living in the stone age and running around killing and eating one another before whites came here and created a certain amount of law and order. The Maoris wouldn't have the unemployment benefit or any form of social welfare if it wasn't for the Europeans. They wouldn't have KFC, cars, mobile phones, TVs, modern healthcare, alcohol, or any modern luxuries that we brought with us. Every Maori I've ever met is happy to use modern technology.

Secondly, name 1 black majority country that is civilized with a high standard of living. I bet you can't. The whole of Africa is fucked, as is the Middle East. Most of Asia is poor and uncivilized with a few exceptions such as Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, and a few others.

So yes, in general whites are the more civilized and developed race. You can't even begin to deny that fact with indisputable evidence. Just try, I'm going to sit back and watch as you attempt and prove me wrong. And yes, I know that there are good, honest Maoris out there and there are bad, thieving, child molesting whites as well.

Depends on what kind of bench mark you want to set. The Chinese were sailing round the world & playing with fireworks when whitie was going round in circles in his coracle. The Hawaiians seemed quite happy until whitie turned up. The Mayans did not fire an arrow in anger for 600 years until the Altomecs wanted a slice of their success. When discovered the Aborigines spent about 2 hours a day finding food & "surviving", the rest of their time was with the kids & family. This is repeated through out societies where religion is separate from governance.

[SPman]

=somebody

I agree. Dictators are dodgey. but what about a World Govt.? Along the lines of the U.N? Seen how the E.U. "government" works?
Now.....expand that sort of thinking/behaviour to cover the world..................

Oh....silly me, we're most of the way there, anyway, so nothing much would change.

As you were...........:sleep:

[george formby]

:corn::corn: About as close as I'm going to get to dinner for awhile. Who's idea was it to have Ramadan in summer?

[James Deuce]

It's not in Summer, it's in Winter. Move back to the right hemisphere.

[george formby]

It's not in Summer, it's in Winter. Move back to the right hemisphere.

Right you are Sahib.

Better still, best I head off home for some crackly pork belly.

[James Deuce]

Could I please have some? You could PM it to me.

[Brian d marge]

what is wrong with eating whale

thousands do and some ( sickos) love it
256461
Stephen

[ducatilover]

No, like I said before, I have no problem with Muslims as long as they stay in Muslim countries. The simple thing to do is not to let them immigrate to white countries. They have fucked their own countries up so badly, so why should they be given the chance to do the same thing to civilized countries?
If you happened to be living in terror in SA and wanted to escape to NZ and got told "no, fuck off, you fucked your own country up", would you then agree and go home peacefully?
Not all Muslim and Islam believers are animals...

[SMOKEU]

If you happened to be living in terror in SA and wanted to escape to NZ and got told "no, fuck off, you fucked your own country up", would you then agree and go home peacefully?
Not all Muslim and Islam believers are animals...

If you've ever been to South Africa, or know anything about the history of SA, you'd know that it all turned to shit once the blacks got power. I'm not saying that I agree with the way blacks were treated during the apartheid era, but the blacks fucked the country up, not the whites. The high crime and corruption didn't exist before the blacks came to power.

[James Deuce]

The high crime and corruption didn't exist before the blacks came to power.

Apart from the wholesale murder and disappearance of blacks who sat on the wrong bench at the beach.

[SMOKEU]

Apart from the wholesale murder and disappearance of blacks who sat on the wrong bench at the beach.

Even blacks are scared these days. I have actually spoken to black South Africans and they are scared of their own kind. In the black townships murder, rape, burglary and violent armed gangs are rife. People from NZ think that South Auckland is a tough place, but those little cunts who walk around with spray cans and knives are a bunch of spineless pussies compared to the SA slums.

[ducatilover]

If you've ever been to South Africa, or know anything about the history of SA, you'd know that it all turned to shit once the blacks got power. I'm not saying that I agree with the way blacks were treated during the apartheid era, but the blacks fucked the country up, not the whites. The high crime and corruption didn't exist before the blacks came to power.
I'm not saying anything about SA, I'm saying, if you were living a shit life there and say, if SA was fucked up, this would be reason for rejection in to my country.
This seemed to be the idea you were pushing across?
What I said was purely hypothetical.

If you were a Muslim, does that give me the right to turn you out of my country?


You think the crime is just beaus they're black? Have you stopped to think about what may cause this crime and violence? The Nazis were very much white and they were a bunch on murderous cunts, more so than the Muslims, then there are the Russians...26 million people!
So, we cannot have people of Germanic decent here, or Russians either.

[SMOKEU]

I'm not saying anything about SA, I'm saying, if you were living a shit life there and say, if SA was fucked up, this would be reason for rejection in to my country.
This seemed to be the idea you were pushing across?
What I said was purely hypothetical.

If you were a Muslim, does that give me the right to turn you out of my country?


You think the crime is just beaus they're black? Have you stopped to think about what may cause this crime and violence? The Nazis were very much white and they were a bunch on murderous cunts, more so than the Muslims, then there are the Russians...26 million people!
So, we cannot have people of Germanic decent here, or Russians either.

People of European descent are significantly less likely to bring their extreme beliefs to other countries. People don't even know that I'm South African until I tell them. Take a look at any white country where Muslims have settled in great numbers, and they have caused a lot of problems in all of those countries.

Also, I don't encourage invading other countries and killing innocent civilians like the Nazis did. I have already stated that I have no problems with Muslims as long as they stay in their own countries and keep their extremist beliefs to themselves, in their own countries. It's when they start coming to other countries and bringing their beliefs with them, that I have a problem.

[ducatilover]

People of European descent are significantly less likely to bring their extreme beliefs to other countries. People don't even know that I'm South African until I tell them. Take a look at any white country where Muslims have settled in great numbers, and they have caused a lot of problems in all of those countries.

Also, I don't encourage invading other countries and killing innocent civilians like the Nazis did. I have already stated that I have no problems with Muslims as long as they stay in their own countries and keep their extremist beliefs to themselves, in their own countries. It's when they start coming to other countries and bringing their beliefs with them, that I have a problem.

So why's Catholicism so big?
I see what you mean now bro

[puddytat]

People of European descent are significantly less likely to bring their extreme beliefs to other countries. People don't even know that I'm South African until I tell them. .

So how the fuck did you get in? Obviously not much of a background check.

Now fuck off outta my thread.

[SMOKEU]

Now fuck off outta my thread.

I must have touched a raw nerve.

[SMOKEU]

So why's Catholicism so big?


I'm not religious, but I haven't heard of catholics hijacking commercial aircraft with the intention of killing everyone on board, or having daily suicide bombings.

[mashman]

I must have touched a raw nerve.

I dunno, I dedicate a whole thread to you and you can't do the decent thing and move to that thread to troll instead... disappointing, but not unexpected.

[Pussy]

I'm not religious, but I haven't heard of catholics hijacking commercial aircraft with the intention of killing everyone on board, or having daily suicide bombings.

There are lots of little boys in the world with sore ringpieces that aren't that fussed on the catholic church....

[James Deuce]

I'm not religious, but I haven't heard of catholics hijacking commercial aircraft with the intention of killing everyone on board, or having daily suicide bombings.

They were called the Crusades back when we did that to Islam. Put the development of "civilisation" back centuries. The only thing stopping Crusaders from flying 767s into tall Islamic commercial centres was the lack of 767s a millennium ago.

[SMOKEU]

I dunno, I dedicate a whole thread to you and you can't do the decent thing and move to that thread to troll instead... disappointing, but not unexpected.

So what do you want from me....a cookie?

[Madness]

Tag= "Annoying Little Yarpie"

[carbonhed]

People don't even know that I'm South African until I tell them.

Well you're a racist pinhead with a deranged sense of self importance... call me slow on the uptake but I was beginning to have my suspicions.

[SMOKEU]

Well you're a racist pinhead with a deranged sense of self importance... call me slow on the uptake but I was beginning to have my suspicions.

That's where you're wrong. I'm simply stating facts, and if you're too stupid to see something that's right in front of you then that's your problem. Or maybe you're too dumb to make your own decisions and are brainwashed by government evangelism so you feel the need to follow them blindly like a flock of sheep. We may never know.

[GingerMidget]

So what do you want from me....a cookie?

I'd prefer silence, and for everyone to go back to the original topic.

[ducatilover]

I'm not religious, but I haven't heard of catholics hijacking commercial aircraft with the intention of killing everyone on board, or having daily suicide bombings.

:facepalm:
It's not so mucht he religion here, it's the cunts who have a problem with coporate America destroying their countries with economic warfare.
Or am I missing something?
I've read the Tanakh and Torah, no-where there does it state that Jews should take all the money, so there's that theory out the window.
I have yet to read any Buddhist texts, or Muslim, but I am going out on a limb and saying it's not the religions that make them fly planes in to shit.

White people commit heinous crimes.
Black people do too.
Everyone has a criminal minority involved, are you going to say the majority of Buddhists or Muslims are bad people who will rape and burn you? All the ones I have met have been peaceful.

[ducatilover]

I'd prefer silence, and for everyone to go back to the original topic.

This is KB, I do apologise.

But, NAH!!!!!!!!

[SMOKEU]

:facepalm:
It's not so mucht he religion here, it's the cunts who have a problem with coporate America destroying their countries with economic warfare.

Everyone has a criminal minority involved, are you going to say the majority of Buddhists or Muslims are bad people who will rape and burn you? All the ones I have met have been peaceful.

But you don't see Russians or Taiwanese people committing anywhere near as many terrorist acts as the Muslims, or do you? What about the other races? I haven't seen South Americans or Chinese people do that kind of thing.

And I have no problems with Buddhists, it's a very peaceful religion which doesn't breed hate like Islam. They don't go around blowing innocent people up with improvised explosives, and they don't start wars or violent revolutions. They even embrace the swastika symbol.

[Swoop]

I'm not religious, but I haven't heard of catholics ... having daily ... bombings.
Does "Northern Ireland" ring a bell?

[Winston001]

Its funny I had a conversation about this with a mate recently....

I simply stated they weren't poor enough. His look was shocked.

"What do you bloody mean not poor enough! Haven't you seen the starving in Africa!"

"Yes, but if you were starving in your own country.....why would you stay?"



LOL but I have to disagree with you. The world is pretty much full up. Certainly there are places - such as New Zealand - which have good soils and plenty of room but the Third World can't get to them. Try walking from Ethiopia to Australia.

Even if they could, you'll note the Aussie navy is busy full-time capturing refugee ships and stopping people doing exactly what you want them to do. There are even boats headed for NZ

And people do vote with their feet - hundreds of thousands have flooded out of Somlia into Kenya. The poor Kenyans aren't a lot better off and can't cope. For the starving of the world there aren't lands of milk and honey next door that they can walk to.

On top of that there are soldiers on borders and minefields. Armed men routinely attack villages and refugees all over the world. Consider Darfur and the Congo. Oh, and Ivory Coast.

[ducatilover]

But you don't see Russians or Taiwanese people committing anywhere near as many terrorist acts as the Muslims, or do you? What about the other races? I haven't seen South Americans or Chinese people do that kind of thing.

And I have no problems with Buddhists, it's a very peaceful religion which doesn't breed hate like Islam. They don't go around blowing innocent people up with improvised explosives, and they don't start wars or violent revolutions. They even embrace the swastika symbol.

Not so much the bombings...but they still hold the record for mass killing don't they?

Russians bomb themselves often enough anyway
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/security/killer-text-a-russian-suicide-bomber-blows-up-by-accident/8015

[Winston001]

Maybe I should've kept it simpler & just made a poll out of it......

Real simple , 2 questions along the lines that kids can get e.g

Question :Can we fix it ?
A: Yes we can.
B: Nah, its fucked.


:wait:

B: Nah, its fucked.

Sorry mate, great topic which concerns me but my conclusion is we cannot stop population growth and collapse.

No biological organism on this planet controls its own numbers. Exponential growth is a rule of nature.

Humans are no different.

I'll give you three examples:

1. Mesopotamia, the cradle of civilisation developed cities and agriculture over 1500 years and then virtually disappeared over 150 years. They ran out of resources.

2. The Mayan civilisation flourished until they overcrowded their region and collapsed in 100 years.

3. Easter Island. This is the poster child for societal demise. It is a perfect example of the problem you raise Puddytat. A community living on a remote island, good soil, plenty of seafood, trees etc the population just kept getting bigger. They were so wealthy in resources that these people had the time and energy to sculpt the massive Moai found on Easter Island.

Then they hit the wall. No more trees, declining food, too many people. The population simply died leaving a few starving survivors which is the condition they were in when discovered by European sailors.


If you think of the Earth as an island with a finite supply of the necessities of life then we face the same collapse as Easter Island. The rich/prudent/lucky people will survive but most will not. Sad but inevitable.

[avgas]

Would they pass immigration standards in any "civilised" country?
Is the problem food shortage or immigration standards then?

Simply growing more food and distributing it to the poor is like offering this guy a bandaid
http://asylumeclectica.com/asylum/morbid/archives/arm.jpg

[avgas]

LOL but I have to disagree with you......Try walking from Ethiopia to Australia.
Google "Aborigine"

Been done before. Suspect will happen again. Of course the whole world will have to collapse first if people don't understand why people aren't moving.

It only takes a small glimpse at looking at illegal immigration into places like Kenya, France, South Africa, India, China........to see the starting of this is already happening (as you mentioned).

So will extra food fix the problem? Or is the problem something else (as I hinted before), such as immigration. If so, do we wait for the world to collapse before fixing it?

I can't wait to see how much "ANTI-IMMIGRATION" stuff now gets thrown by people calmer than SMOKEU. But fact of the matter if you want to fix the world you have to let it in. Or leave is broken.

Giving them food is and has always been a bandaid solution. Which is why COMPANIES and ORGANIZATIONS pay their workers very well for doing it. Its a cash cow due to stupid people who keep paying.

[NighthawkNZ]

news.yahoo.com/world-lacks-enough-food-fuel-population-soars-un-151012418.html (http://news.yahoo.com/world-lacks-enough-food-fuel-population-soars-un-151012418.html)

So what are we going to do about it.

They have been saying that for the last 100 years... ???

World will be out of food by 1900, then, 1910, 1920, 1950, 1966, 1975, 1984, 1999, 2000, 2003, 2005, 1010, 2012, 2020, 2030, 2035, 2050...

World will be out of oil by 1950, 1966, 1975, 1984, 1999, 2000, 2003, 2005, 1010, 2012, 2020, 2030, 2035, 2050...

[oneofsix]

They have been saying that for the last 100 years... ???

World will be out of food by 1900, then, 1910, 1920, 1950, 1966, 1975, 1984, 1999, 2000, 2003, 2005, 1010, 2012, 2020, 2030, 2035, 2050...

World will be out of oil by 1950, 1966, 1975, 1984, 1999, 2000, 2003, 2005, 1010, 2012, 2020, 2030, 2035, 2050...

Yeah been hearing it all my life. It get stale after the first 50 years. Most of the shortages are still caused by organised, as opposed to personal, greed. Lots of these places could feed themselves if it wasn't for wars or corporation tying up resources. Find Blue Water Wars if you want to see what is happening around water resources and corporate control. I don't believe all of Bluw Water Wars but even if only 10% is true then the sooner the capitalist system collapse under its own weight the better.

[SpankMe]

Each female gets to give birth twice, then forced sterilization, or we'll never have enough energy.

http://physics.ucsd.edu/do-the-math/2011/07/galactic-scale-energy/

[SMOKEU]

They have been saying that for the last 100 years... ???

World will be out of food by 1900, then, 1910, 1920, 1950, 1966, 1975, 1984, 1999, 2000, 2003, 2005, 1010, 2012, 2020, 2030, 2035, 2050...

World will be out of oil by 1950, 1966, 1975, 1984, 1999, 2000, 2003, 2005, 1010, 2012, 2020, 2030, 2035, 2050...

The world will never, ever, ever run out of oil. Or food.

[Winston001]

They have been saying that for the last 100 years... ???

World will be out of food by 1900, then, 1910, 1920, 1950, 1966, 1975, 1984, 1999, 2000, 2003, 2005, 1010, 2012, 2020, 2030, 2035, 2050...

World will be out of oil by 1950, 1966, 1975, 1984, 1999, 2000, 2003, 2005, 1010, 2012, 2020, 2030, 2035, 2050...

Yeah you are right. Thomas Robert Malthus (1766-1834) was the first thinker to draw attention to this in his Essay on the Principle of Population. Malthusian theory has been debated ever since but the core principle of a human population limit is not disputed. We just do not know where to draw the line.

I think its 2 billion. Others say 15 billion. Certainly we could feed 15 but the quality of life would not be anything like we have today.

Anyway, nature will draw the line for us. In the meantime set your kids up as best you can to protect them and their children et seq.

[GingerMidget]

But you don't see Russians or Taiwanese people committing anywhere near as many terrorist acts as the Muslims, or do you? What about the other races? I haven't seen South Americans or Chinese people do that kind of thing.

And I have no problems with Buddhists, it's a very peaceful religion which doesn't breed hate like Islam. They don't go around blowing innocent people up with improvised explosives, and they don't start wars or violent revolutions. They even embrace the swastika symbol.

Embrace the swastika? Are you kidding me? are you really as ignorant as your previous statement implies? Wait. Don't answer that. The 'swastika' is orignally a hindu symbol, and was adopted by the nazis a few hundred years later, and due to their atrocities that is all people tend to recognise it for.

You give examples, I'll play your game.

South america. Drug cartels.
China. One child policy, men opressing women and should they accidently get pregnant again, well its off to the abortion house for you love.
Russia. Heard of the KGB? The rest of the world has.

[george formby]

Another take on things. http://www.economist.com/node/21533364

Their was a precis of this theory in the Herald not to long ago.

[Oblivion]

The 3rd world countries that we have now will remain just that. 3rd world countries. No amount of aid will solve it. Because everyone in this world seems to think that they have an entitlement to be better than everyone else.

Muslims, Women are oppressed beyond belief. You can get killed and you killer could get away from it if you so happen to refuse marriage.
And that's just an example.

Take all the shit that is happening in Syria. The government is slaughtering its own citizens to stop the uprising and most of us are sitting here thinking why hasn't anyone been in their and helped them? Because there is no money to be made in helping them. So according to NATO, why bother.

However, when Libya went through the same scenario, government slaughtering its people, NATO jumped in faster than a speeding bullet. Why? Oil. Libya has more oil than it knows what to do with. Of course NATO wants a crack at all that Oil, to increase the size of their wallets from a 10XL to a 24XL.

The Bush administration had financial investments in Oil.

The world is screwed because no one has the right mind to solve it. Its always the me first attitude that gets the gold.

Politicians nowadays have to go through training, and learning how to be a politician. You can say to your neighbour John " Hey John, your a bloody good bloke, down to earth too. Want to have a go at running for parliament?" It just doesn't happen. The people that we expect to solve all the stuff that is happening right now are too busy eating candy, and denying it when they have chocolate round their mouth, and are just helping themselves to the charity money down the road.

The world is gonna go haywire in the next 10 years and its either going to start from the Eurozone collapsing, or the US defaulting on their debt.

[mashman]

Is the problem food shortage or immigration standards then?

Simply growing more food and distributing it to the poor is like offering this guy a bandaid


Education. Immigration is just a way to legally shift people about and keep the "undesirable" out of ones back yard... ironic much :blink:. In itself it has nothing to do with anything really. Whereas $$$ and purposefully doing things to keep people down is a feckin huge problem and is THE problem imho. I'm not saying there's a magic wand to suddenly make things right, but changing things substantially would remove a lot of the worlds corruption and may well give people in Africa a chance. After all that's the worlds major fuck up. We pay millions for little see through rocks where those who dig them out are slaves to their watchers who benefit by getting technology and weapons in return. Utterly ridiculous

I agree with you there. I'd like to see us do things on purpose but in a way that helps as many people out as possible, not just those who consider themselves civilised and therefore more worthy of a place on the planet. The whole thing is a con.

And if



Anyway, nature will draw the line for us. In the meantime set your kids up as best you can to protect them and their children et seq.

rolling over and playing dead is the prevailing attitude amongst the intelligentsia then it's hardly surprising that nothing has ever been done. I'm not saying we won't run out of resources and die out, but I'd prefer having a crack at giving things a go than burying my head in the sand and deciding that the only person you can save is yourself and your family. That'll change pretty bloody quickly and it won't matter how you've set your kids up unless you've bought them an underground bunker decked out with a garden large enough to provide everything you need year in year out. And they say I have rose tinted specs.

[Ocean1]

Will you whining hungry fuckers for chrisake keep the noise to a dull roar?

You're beginning to annoy those of us who plan to live forever.




Where's my cake...

[mashman]

1. Mesopotamia, the cradle of civilisation developed cities and agriculture over 1500 years and then virtually disappeared over 150 years. They ran out of resources.

2. The Mayan civilisation flourished until they overcrowded their region and collapsed in 100 years.

3. Easter Island. This is the poster child for societal demise. It is a perfect example of the problem you raise Puddytat. A community living on a remote island, good soil, plenty of seafood, trees etc the population just kept getting bigger. They were so wealthy in resources that these people had the time and energy to sculpt the massive Moai found on Easter Island.


From some of what I have read and seen on the box the Maya poisoned their water sources with sacrifices. As for the others, did they have artificial light? Greenhouses to protect food from the weather? Hydroponics? Aquaponics? Plastics? They might have made a difference?

[puddytat]

Yeah, we mus'nt forget that we have evolved somewhat & that we have had in the last 50 years a huge leap forward in Science & technology, alot of which unfortuanately has been used for the purpose of killing each other. <_<
So we have the tools to do the job,but our ego's get in the way as well as our nads.....

[oneofsix]

What an egotistic bunch of fukwits we are. The world has enough food and fuel, its humans what might have a problem. We will just become the worlds the food and fuel when we become extinct but until the cosmos decides that the this hunk of rock should no longer be the world will continue. Animals will come and go and the world may change.

[mashman]

engaging brain would be an interesting start...

[neels]

The real answer is that there is not enough food/fuel/water if people keep consuming at the current rate. While a small percentage of the world population consume the majority of the worlds resources this will continue to be true.

Add to that the growing middle classes in India and China who want what we have got, probably fair considering they actually make most of it for the western world.

Brings to mind the idea of demolishing perfectly liveable houses in christchurch, when there are people desperate for somewhere to live. Western world logic at it's best.

[Oblivion]

Brings to mind the idea of demolishing perfectly liveable houses in christchurch, when there are people desperate for somewhere to live. Western world logic at it's best.

That is quite true. Was rightly pissed off when I heard that they were building a stadium in Christchurch, when there are thousands of people without a home. What the hell are these people thinking......

[SMOKEU]

What the hell are these people thinking......

Of that nice beach house or BMW they will be able to afford with all the extra money procured from bribery and corruption.

[scracha]

news.yahoo.com/world-lacks-enough-food-fuel-population-soars-un-151012418.html

So what are we going to do about it.

Destroying Christchurch would be a good start.....oh...wait.........god tried that :shutup:

[jonbuoy]

I'm sure there is enough to go around, its just poorly managed. Africa should be a rich country, huge natural recources, tourism etc... Problem is most African governments are fucked in the head.

[Kickaha]

.. Problem is most African governments are fucked in the head.

Zimbabwe is a classic example of that, once an exporter to the rest of the contitnent now the country is well fucked

[jonbuoy]

Zimbabwe is a classic example of that, once an exporter to the rest of the contitnent now the country is well fucked

Now another one looking for handouts while the government syphon off what it can into swiss bank accounts.

[Paul in NZ]

Add to that the growing middle classes in India and China who want what we have got, probably fair considering they actually make most of it for the western world..

They are getting it too - cancer, diabetes, asthma etc.....

[mashman]

I'm sure there is enough to go around, its just poorly managed. Africa should be a rich country, huge natural recources, tourism etc... Problem is most African governments are fucked in the head.

Or so indebted to western nations that they can have billions of $$$ wiped off their debt and still only just able to make the interest payments. Corporations own anything of value in Africa and non of the corporations are African. Badly managed, pah, I think given the shit they're in they're doing remarkably well.

[Brian d marge]

Diamonds are a girls best friend .........

Stephen

[mashman]

Diamonds are a girls best friend .........

Stephen

or a great way to get old guys laid.

[Brian d marge]

or a great way to get old guys laid.

it will be a barren year for me this year , I have a few options open , but they are becoming more and more trixy........
and patience, while being a virtue , doesn't agree with my timeline

Stephen

[mashman]

it will be a barren year for me this year , I have a few options open , but they are becoming more and more trixy........
and patience, while being a virtue , doesn't agree with my timeline

Stephen

Karaoke not workin out for ya eh :innocent:

[SMOKEU]

Diamonds are a girls best friend .........

Stephen


or a great way to get old guys laid.

Skip the diamonds and have surprise secks instead.

[neels]

Skip the diamonds and have surprise secks instead.
'Do you want to play the rape game?'

' No'

' That's the spirit, lets get started'

[Brian d marge]

I usually plonk a bottle of vodka on the table and say , " thats the spirit,lets get started"
your way is much more fun than my way ....ill try it on the wife first .....
stephen

[pete376403]

Yeah, we mus'nt forget that we have evolved somewhat & that we have had in the last 50 years a huge leap forward in Science & technology, alot of which unfortuanately has been used for the purpose of killing each other. <_<
So we have the tools to do the job,but our ego's get in the way as well as our nads.....

Science and technology thought of things like this http://www.readersupportednews.org/news-section2/312-16/9659-dying-honeybees-it-was-the-insecticides-all-along#comment-136053

Smart moving killing off the major pollinator of food.

[mashman]

Science and technology thought of things like this http://www.readersupportednews.org/news-section2/312-16/9659-dying-honeybees-it-was-the-insecticides-all-along#comment-136053

Smart moving killing off the major pollinator of food.

:facepalm: ... watched a doco on the disappearance of bees and the affects on the industry and it was heartbreaking to see people sorting through dead hives. One of the resolutions was to buy bees from Oz and have them shipped in, but it was so expensive that when those bees failed too, people were losing their houses etc... The planet is in a really bad way and it's the profit mongers who are doing it. They should be burned for the treason of humanity...

[Brian d marge]

:facepalm: ... watched a doco on the disappearance of bees and the affects on the industry and it was heartbreaking to see people sorting through dead hives. One of the resolutions was to buy bees from Oz and have them shipped in, but it was so expensive that when those bees failed too, people were losing their houses etc... The planet is in a really bad way and it's the profit mongers who are doing it. They should be burned for the treason of humanity...

ohhh you will get red for that ,,, I was getting pissed and shooting them then fornicating with their dead bodies and I got red ......

Stephen

[jonbuoy]

Or so indebted to western nations that they can have billions of $$$ wiped off their debt and still only just able to make the interest payments. Corporations own anything of value in Africa and non of the corporations are African. Badly managed, pah, I think given the shit they're in they're doing remarkably well.

So was it international debt or Mugabe´s henchmen burning raping and pillaging the good farms that destroyed Zimbabwe ´s economy? African Debt - money that was borrowed and probably never used for the purposes it should have been. No idea if you have been to Africa but I was working on an oil platform in the late 90´s in Nigeria, it was common knowlage that most of the money the Nigerian government got for the oil was shuffled offshore. The most corrupt place I have ever been. If Mugabe had kept the honkies in control of the farms for the time being and opened up scholarships for agricultural colleges for the blacks the country wouldn´t be so screwed now.

[mashman]

ohhh you will get red for that ,,, I was getting pissed and shooting them then fornicating with their dead bodies and I got red ......

Stephen

er, well, er, when I say burned I mean to say politely asked to step away from society and to trouble us no more with their funny business antics thingymajig that they do so well.... for each other............ in a completely fair and open global market........... without causing any distress to billions of people......... not quick pass the petrol I reckon I can hit him from here... so I shouldn't get any red and I'll bring any red I get up with S&P and see if they'll downgrade to orange, or perhaps mango.

[mashman]

So was it international debt or Mugabe´s henchmen burning raping and pillaging the good farms that destroyed Zimbabwe ´s economy? African Debt - money that was borrowed and probably never used for the purposes it should have been. No idea if you have been to Africa but I was working on an oil platform in the late 90´s in Nigeria, it was common knowlage that most of the money the Nigerian government got for the oil was shuffled offshore. The most corrupt place I have ever been. If Mugabe had kept the honkies in control of the farms for the time being and opened up scholarships for agricultural colleges for the blacks the country wouldn´t be so screwed now.

Well it wasn't Mugabe, he was knighted by the mighty British Empire. I have reliable reports that it wasn't just Zim that got fucked over when the idiots took over the asylum. You could be right about whitey still being in charge and creating a legacy of education and harmony... although I'd like to know why they didn't when they ruled over the African nations for decades? Slavery maybe... if they have no money, be it from corruption and/or heavy debt, then it's hardly surprising that these countries have no cash, even if they do have minerals and natural resources, the game is rigged and not in the favour of the nation with the mineral wealth. In regards to Mugabe, why haven't the UN arrested or killed him? Or why haven;t the US sent in a navy seal team... he's been killing his people for longer than Saddam? Perhaps TPTB already have the country financially sewn up? and keeping a butcher in place must work wonders for population control. Why is he not dead?

[jonbuoy]

Well it wasn't Mugabe, he was knighted by the mighty British Empire. I have reliable reports that it wasn't just Zim that got fucked over when the idiots took over the asylum. You could be right about whitey still being in charge and creating a legacy of education and harmony... although I'd like to know why they didn't when they ruled over the African nations for decades? Slavery maybe... if they have no money, be it from corruption and/or heavy debt, then it's hardly surprising that these countries have no cash, even if they do have minerals and natural resources, the game is rigged and not in the favour of the nation with the mineral wealth. In regards to Mugabe, why haven't the UN arrested or killed him? Or why haven;t the US sent in a navy seal team... he's been killing his people for longer than Saddam? Perhaps TPTB already have the country financially sewn up? and keeping a butcher in place must work wonders for population control. Why is he not dead?

I don´t know he should be in a box really. No one seems interested in Africans hacking each other up with machetes, if it doesn´t effect global politics, stability or oil prices no one really minds what you get up to in your back yard. I think every time the USA or UK have got involved in African tribal disputes they ended up in the middle of the hack and slash - best turn a blind eye and worry about the black gold.

[Kickaha]

In regards to Mugabe, why haven't the UN arrested or killed him? Or why haven;t the US sent in a navy seal team... he's been killing his people for longer than Saddam? Perhaps TPTB already have the country financially sewn up? and keeping a butcher in place must work wonders for population control. Why is he not dead?

Because he doesn't have anything they want

[mashman]

I don´t know he should be in a box really. No one seems interested in Africans hacking each other up with machetes, if it doesn´t effect global politics, stability or oil prices no one really minds what you get up to in your back yard. I think every time the USA or UK have got involved in African tribal disputes they ended up in the middle of the hack and slash - best turn a blind eye and worry about the black gold.

Sad really. Nothing to fight for :facepalm:... I seem to remember the first US crack at Iraq was on humanitarian grounds... pah, I guess Kickaha is right then eh. Fuckin sad state of affairs given that that's the way we'll all end up going if nothing is done. Not doom and gloom, just the reality of populations being nothing more than worker drones and that they'll only give a shit about suffering and justice when it affects the bottom line.


Because he doesn't have anything they want

Gawd I cringe every time I think that that is the case... granted there seems to be no other reason that springs to mind.

[James Deuce]

Remember Rwanda? Same Deal.

[george formby]

Remember Rwanda? Same Deal.

Wish I didn't. The Hutu's & Tutsis were/are tribes of agricultralists & cattle herders. Until the Belgians colonised the country & made one tribe overseers of the other they lived fairly harmoniously. The attempted genocide stemmed from the cruelties inflicted during that era. I can't remember what roles the tribes had though.
Same shit, oppression for advantage.

[puddytat]

In regard to Bees, seeing as Ive a few hives .....the blimmin' beekeepers have been saying for years that chemicals are a problem but no one listened....at least we can say" we told you so".
For years we have said that biosecurity should be of utmost importance.....& all it took was one "Dick" to import illegally, Queens from Overseas....what next?
Also their is evidence that Bee Colony collapse may also be related to the widespread expansion of Wirelss technology & the Towers associated with them......
Also...it has been shown thast high energy cables undersea & no doudt on land may be detremental to Bird & sealife navigation....


In regards to why half the Countries in Africa & the Middle East are rooted, well the Oil companies especially can take the blame for that.
Its a fact.
Dont believe me? Then i suggest you go to good ole TVNZ7:woohoo::rockon: on demand & download or whatever,the
documentary "THE SEVEN SISTERS" & youll see that this planet was been divided up since ages ago. By the Cartel of the Seven largest oil companies.
Some of the worst atrocities & civil unrest in the last century has been "made " for their direct advantage.And still is. By people we elected.Who either have worked for them directly (Rumsfeld, Cheney, Rice etc etc).Or indirectly:shifty:

Now Im not suggesting that we dont need either chemicals/oil...its all oil init, but that there is a huge cost to these technologies & anyone who points these things out is then promptly labeled such & such by the media & that is all it takes to make anyone who advocates these causes to be discredited, & before they can even get to the point they have to endlessly quantify & defend their position....
Honestly I dont think these problems are that big....& with seven billion people working on it,I dont think it'd take long if we all chip in.
I really think we need to rethink the concept of Democracy & we need to come up with a new rule book pretty fuckin quick.

[mashman]

"THE SEVEN SISTERS"

Do you mean Secret of The Seven Sisters? (couldn't find it onDemand) Am 20 mins into Part 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-7wdnv_EiM) and feel like I don't need to watch any more as the rest is probably pretty predictable... but I will watch the rest of them over the weekend.

The guy in Iraq sort of sums it up towards the end of the first part. Saddam oppressed them for 36 years and the Americans came in to finish them off :angry:

[carbonhed]

The three main staple grains cultivated in the world (rice, maize and wheat) are all pollinated by the wind. So you're not going to run out of buns to hold your burgers in anytime soon.

There's been lots of theories around Colony Collapse Disorder of the honeybee. The stupidest one of all was microwave radiation from cell phones. Even for you dumb motherfuckers this is just biblically retarded but obviously that's not going to slow you down for a millisecond.

Insecticides would certainly do the job if we were trying to kill them but actually horticlturalists don't want to kill honeybees so we try to avoid that.

That leaves us with pests and diseases. If you'd been looking you'll have noticed what Varroa did to the local population of honeybees. Devastating, inexorable, entirely natural. Exported from the Phillipines and brought here by some dumb little cocksucker who thought he knew better. There's a global surplus of dumb little cocksuckers who think they know better... many of them feature on this thread. Ironically a primary defence against Varroa is the insecticide tau fluvalinate AKA Apistan. Yep that's right an insecticide right in the hive. Who the fuck woulda thought?

Varroa's not the only pest attacking them. Recently in the USA they've found a parasitic fly that's also killing them off.

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/2012/01/03/zombie-fly-parasite-killing-honeybees/

There's also many fungal and viral diseases that could be implicated.

Doesn't that sound more reasonable? I know it won't appeal as much because it's not an evil conspiracy by shadowy capitalist corporations trying to achieve world domination in...... errr.... something... but really if you step outside and look at the plum trees groaning under the weight of fruit, the apple trees laden... just look the fuck around you and lighten the fuck up.

[mashman]

So pesticides and insecticides have been killing off the insects that the fly used to use as a host and because they've killed them off and bees are about the only thing still living, they've moved on to bees. I'm plenty light, just gotta laugh at those experts who know what the problem is even when they don't know what the problems is.

[SPman]

Environmentalist have found a link to a particular pesticide in the US. Clothianidin - it's one that is used to coat seeds - GM corn, in particular..........http://readersupportednews.org/off-site-news-section/49-49/9479-honeybee-problem-nearing-a-critical-point

[mashman]

this fulla believes that protein deficiency is the problem. (http://www.economist.com/node/15612155?story_id=15612155)

[mashman]

Environmentalist have found a link to a particular pesticide in the US. Clothianidin - it's one that is used to coat seeds - GM corn, in particular..........http://readersupportednews.org/off-site-news-section/49-49/9479-honeybee-problem-nearing-a-critical-point

"Ellis, for his part, thinks that figuring out a way to solve the bee crisis could be a catalyst for larger reform within our agriculture system. “If we can protect that pollinator base, it’s going to have ripple effects … for wildlife, for human health,” he said. “It will bring up subjects that need to be looked at, of groundwater and surface water — all the connected subjects associated [with] chemical use and agriculture.”"

I wish.

[Oblivion]

Informative post by puddytat

The Seven sisters have ruled the market for a long time. If you look at the profits made by these companies, There is a trend between the cost of selling the Oil, and the cost of getting it out of the ground.

Ever since the 50's the cost of getting oil out of the ground and processing it, has decreased, Due to a variety of factors, increase in the availability of suitable technology and so on. However the cost of the Oil has been on a sneaky upwards curve ever since they started having a monopoly. The great oil crisis was caused by the of oil being to high for regular people to purchase. There was no shortage of oil, no where near a shortage. The companies just got greedy. It wasn't until OPEC came along that the prices went down, because it ruined the monopoly that the Seven sisters had. If these companies had continued uninterrupted, we could of expected of paying 300$ a barrel.

If NZ actually could keep the Oil that we drill within the country, we could reduce the dependency we have on foreign Oil imports. But people in charge are too stupid to think of that <_<

[mashman]

If NZ actually could keep the Oil that we drill within the country, we could reduce the dependency we have on foreign Oil imports. But people in charge are too stupid to think of that <_<

In the "Am 20 mins in to Part 1" link above it would seem that when anyone tried to keep their oil they faced repercussions from the rest of the world... primarily the Americans. Go figure eh. This link was posted (http://dss.ucsd.edu/~jhamilto/handbook_climate.pdf) by rainman in another thread and gave an interesting look into the peaks and troughs of oil prices. Interestingish, but I only made it to page 20 before I gave up.

[Brian d marge]

sandals every one come and get your sandal.....

trouble is we need oil ... try to look around and eliminate oil...same near if not impossible
oil from plastic looks good as has been discussed.... but I m trying not to use the stuff, but its virtually impossible.....
stephen

[mashman]

sandals every one come and get your sandal.....

trouble is we need oil ... try to look around and eliminate oil...same near if not impossible
oil from plastic looks good as has been discussed.... but I m trying not to use the stuff, but its virtually impossible.....
stephen

Very true... similar to medicine. What else is an essential import?

However I'd rather be bare footed.

[Brian d marge]

Very true... similar to medicine. What else is an essential import?

However I'd rather be bare footed.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/_Gh5j8oUoyE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


here ya go

Stephen

[mashman]

here ya go

Stephen

:wari: .... :wari: .... :wari:

[rainman]

And I have no problems with Buddhists, it's a very peaceful religion which doesn't breed hate like Islam. ... They even embrace the swastika symbol.

For one thing, the Buddhist svastika is almost always clockwise, and the Nazi one is counter-clockwise, so they're not the same symbol visually. More important is the meaning: the Buddhists got the idea from the Hindus, where the clockwise svastika (from Sanskrit su-asti, well being) signifies the positive expression of life, but the counter-clockwise one represents Kali, destruction and magic. In the Hindu worldview, these are all part of a balance, and they don't have the simplistic "good and evil" views we seem to be stuck with, but either way the Nazi choice of swastika was a willing embrace of evil; a svastika on a Buddhist temple is a positive symbol. So they're not paleo-Nazis.

There is a large amount of irony in your post; admiring Buddhism for not breeding hate, while expressing your general level of bigotry and hate for anyone not like you. Just sayin'. (And I'm not picking on you, but hating, like smoking, will kill you. One of the big challenges of life is to love everyone, even those you really want to hate).


this fulla believes that protein deficiency is the problem. (http://www.economist.com/node/15612155?story_id=15612155)

Yeah, I think nutrition has a role to play, but it's only one factor in a composite set. Massive monocultures are the main cause of nutrition issues (have you seen the almond orchards they refer to in that story - horizon to horizon... madness), complex and poorly understood insecticides, trucking bees around the country wrapped in cling-film, meddling around with lots of imported genetics... and that's just the stuff we do actively. Add in other background toxicity from the way we live plus natural things like varroa and nosema and it is amazing we have any bees at all.

Anyhoo, back to the OP. Population increases plus declining energy = Less food, more misery. Always been that way, always will. Some reading:

An opinion piece in Nature (http://www.indiaenvironmentportal.org.in/files/file/fossil fuels.pdf) about oil supplies albeit mainly related to climate change, but relevant as the underlying cause. The debate is pretty much over when Nature is on board.
An old but a goodie, Richard Manning (http://www.harpers.org/archive/2004/02/0079915) on embodied energy in food. (Read his book: Against the Grain, I think).
Various other (http://blogs.wsj.com/source/2011/03/03/rising-oil-prices-will-send-food-prices-even-higher/) articles about (http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/03/us-food-fao-index-idUSTRE72223C20110303) the relationship (http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/jun/08/food-oil-prices-biggest-threat-recovery) between oil and food price and availability. The link to economic growth is also important.
Pollan talking about food systems at a conference (1 hr video (http://www.mnn.com/your-home/organic-farming-gardening/videos/michael-pollan-state-of-the-movement-address)). Also his briefing to the incoming Obama (http://michaelpollan.com/articles-archive/farmer-in-chief/).
If you haven't seen it, Al Bartlett's "Arithmetic, Population and Energy" is good background.
Solutions aren't impossible, but they involve major changes in how we live, work, eat, grow food, and what we do in many spheres of life, individually, nationally, and globally.

TBH I think we're not gonna, though, cause we're all pussies.

[SMOKEU]

There is a large about of irony in your post; admiring Buddhism for not breeding hate, while expressing your general level of bigotry and hate for anyone not like you. Just sayin'. (And I'm not picking on you, but hating, like smoking, will kill you. One of the big challenges of life is to love everyone, even those you really want to hate).



I've already stated that I have no problem with Muslims or blacks - as long as they stay in their own countries and don't spread their primitive behaviour and extremist beliefs into white countries. I say leave them in "peace".

[Kickaha]

as long as they stay in their own countries and don't spread their primitive behaviour and extremist beliefs
Pity you didn't do the same

[SMOKEU]

Pity you didn't do the same

I never went to other countries and tried to spread my violent and extremist beliefs.

[mashman]

Yeah, I think nutrition has a role to play, but it's only one factor in a composite set. Massive monocultures are the main cause of nutrition issues (have you seen the almond orchards they refer to in that story - horizon to horizon... madness), complex and poorly understood insecticides, trucking bees around the country wrapped in cling-film, meddling around with lots of imported genetics... and that's just the stuff we do actively. Add in other background toxicity from the way we live plus natural things like varroa and nosema and it is amazing we have any bees at all.


True... everything needs the correct nutrition to grow well and properly... shame we feel the need to "overclock" everything. Yeah I've seen the orchards as well as the Eucalyptus fields for paper, which poison the earth below them to a point where nothing else lives. I think my fave, sarcasm, are the Palm Oil fields in Bolivia... forests removed and replace with the fuckers. I wouldn't mind genetically grown food if they grew it indoors via hydroponics or aquaponics and left the "natural" world alone... but there ain't no money in it.

http://understory.ran.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/20080922_PNG_7570.jpg

Some day people will suddenly click that doing things for money does nothing for us. We're told to save for the future and yet that's at the cost of our future. Fuckin brainless morons with zero concept of the world around them. No doubt they'll scoff when they read that little ditty, but that'll just prove the point. Fantastic technology is available yet because it may replace a massive part of an existing industry (like hemp) and the resultant job losses these technologies will never become mainstream. The technology is there, but the money isn't to pay for it :facepalm:. I'd love to see NZ ditch the cash and set itself up for life... instead of for profit. Until then the loonies will run the asylum and those in control will keep on voting for them. Fuckin morons.

[SPman]

Solutions aren't impossible, but they involve major changes in how we live, work, eat, grow food, and what we do in many spheres of life, individually, nationally, and globally. Fat chance - and doesn't that apply to so many things looming up in the near future.......

[mashman]

Fat chance - and doesn't that apply to so many things looming up in the near future.......

Why does the change have to be radical? The simplest thing is removing the money factor. After that it won't matter if there is massive unemployment as people will still be fed etc... we'll then be able to implement the "green" technologies as cost won't be a factor and slowly but surely things will change towards a more sustainable path. We will never get anywhere near where we need to be were $$$ is the driver. Remove money, everyone just does the same job that they do at the moment and then go from there. the only thing that has changed is that you don't have to pay for things any more. It's not as much of a radical change as we think.

[Brian d marge]

been a surprising day this end
my local council here near Tokyo's, have a system where if you "manage" some land , they give it to you , you look after it as they suggest, then they guarantee you a volume of vegetables or other foods at a reduced price.
I'm going to look into this .....
sandals come and get your birkensocks and sandals

stephen

[mashman]

This person says what I want to say and more. I believe it can be done "smoothly". (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/02/04/1061889/-When-Money-No-Longer-Gets-Money?via=spotlight)

[avgas]

i never went to other countries and tried to spread my violent and extremist beliefs.
ftp??????????

[avgas]

we'll then be able to implement the "green" technologies as cost won't be a factor and slowly but surely things will change towards a more sustainable path.
Actually money isn't the problem with green tech, never has and never will be. Politics has always been the problem.
Removing money will mean that people will rely more on politics, thus resulting in less green tech. Don't believe me look at green tech in places like Kenya where the currency is worthless.
People don't like to give up power (excuse the pun), when money turns into a vacuum, power over people is all that remains.

While I would like to live in a world right now that doesn't have money, right now money is the only barge pole people have over politics and power struggles. Get rid of these people who seek power over others, and I will happily give up money. Right now its my only defense from having my petrol, power and water supplies cut off, or being kicked out of NZ. I may be a cash cow - but no one shoots the cash cow.
Take away my money and I am only good as a slave.

[SMOKEU]

ftp??????????

File transfer protocol.

[davebullet]

news.yahoo.com/world-lacks-enough-food-fuel-population-soars-un-151012418.html

So what are we going to do about it.

Nothing. Nature will eventually wield our demise with such certainty that there will be nothing we can do about it.

[mashman]

Actually money isn't the problem with green tech, never has and never will be. Politics has always been the problem.
Removing money will mean that people will rely more on politics, thus resulting in less green tech. Don't believe me look at green tech in places like Kenya where the currency is worthless.
People don't like to give up power (excuse the pun), when money turns into a vacuum, power over people is all that remains.

While I would like to live in a world right now that doesn't have money, right now money is the only barge pole people have over politics and power struggles. Get rid of these people who seek power over others, and I will happily give up money. Right now its my only defense from having my petrol, power and water supplies cut off, or being kicked out of NZ. I may be a cash cow - but no one shoots the cash cow.
Take away my money and I am only good as a slave.

Of what politics do you speak? as we're already using green technology. Removing money will make political decisions easier to make and be more effective for the wider community.

[avgas]

Of what politics do you speak? as we're already using green technology. Removing money will make political decisions easier to make and be more effective for the wider community.
Nah we are usually the "political excuse" for green tech. Think of it as tip of the iceberg stuff. There are NZ companies who are selling their greentech stuff to everyone BUT NZ.
Removing money will simply mean that those who will want control over others will have it. The Brian Tamaki's of this world will still be 'wealthy', even without money.

With or without money there have always been Leaders. Some of these leaders do not have reasonable ideals. With money we can buy a defense against these leaders. Without money we simply will have to stay out of their way.
I would like to say that the world no longer has a mass of blind followers. But fact of the matter is democracy has already shown us that not only do they exist, they are the majority.

If you remove money, it won't be the free-thinkers or passive types who take over. That goes directly against their nature. Since the rich won't exist it only leaves 1 type of people to grab as much control as they can - the possessive, the greedy, the aggressive. They will claim as much resources (people included) as they can. Just remember a king is not king by how much gold he holds, but how much fear he produces.

Note that I say this against every bone in my body.
The bones in my body want money removed, want blood in the streets. The bones in my body are pure anarchist. For no other reason except the fact that this is the only way us humans seem to learn lessons.

[Brian d marge]

Nah we are usually the "political excuse" for green tech. Think of it as tip of the iceberg stuff. There are NZ companies who are selling their greentech stuff to everyone BUT NZ.
Removing money will simply mean that those who will want control over others will have it. The Brian Tamaki's of this world will still be 'wealthy', even without money.

With or without money there have always been Leaders. Some of these leaders do not have reasonable ideals. With money we can buy a defense against these leaders. Without money we simply will have to stay out of their way.
I would like to say that the world no longer has a mass of blind followers. But fact of the matter is democracy has already shown us that not only do they exist, they are the majority.

If you remove money, it won't be the free-thinkers or passive types who take over. That goes directly against their nature. Since the rich won't exist it only leaves 1 type of people to grab as much control as they can - the possessive, the greedy, the aggressive. They will claim as much resources (people included) as they can. Just remember a king is not king by how much gold he holds, but how much fear he produces.

Note that I say this against every bone in my body.
The bones in my body want money removed, want blood in the streets. The bones in my body are pure anarchist. For no other reason except the fact that this is the only way us humans seem to learn lessons.


Ghandi did alright

Stephen

[mashman]

Nah we are usually the "political excuse" for green tech. Think of it as tip of the iceberg stuff. There are NZ companies who are selling their greentech stuff to everyone BUT NZ.
Removing money will simply mean that those who will want control over others will have it. The Brian Tamaki's of this world will still be 'wealthy', even without money.

With or without money there have always been Leaders. Some of these leaders do not have reasonable ideals. With money we can buy a defense against these leaders. Without money we simply will have to stay out of their way.
I would like to say that the world no longer has a mass of blind followers. But fact of the matter is democracy has already shown us that not only do they exist, they are the majority.

If you remove money, it won't be the free-thinkers or passive types who take over. That goes directly against their nature. Since the rich won't exist it only leaves 1 type of people to grab as much control as they can - the possessive, the greedy, the aggressive. They will claim as much resources (people included) as they can. Just remember a king is not king by how much gold he holds, but how much fear he produces.

Note that I say this against every bone in my body.
The bones in my body want money removed, want blood in the streets. The bones in my body are pure anarchist. For no other reason except the fact that this is the only way us humans seem to learn lessons.

We have the equivalent of a king to all intents and purposes, a figurehead who is responsible for us all in one way or another. I have no problem with that as the king seeks advice from "wise" men and therefore isn't the be all and end all of the decision making process. Unfortunately that advice comes with $$$ attached and is $$$ focussed in our current society. Without that $$$ they can't make the same decisions and don't have the same power. Why not? Well the only thing that keeps those who want change off the streets is the need to feed our families. To do that we need to earn money. Without money you can bet your arse that there would be more people protesting at the current antics that govern our way of life... potentially leading to blood in the streets I agree. These days the kings power means nothing without the followers. So where the king makes bad policy, he'll know about it pretty damn quickly. A king requires people to follow and as history has shown where kings aren't doing what the people believe are in their best interest, they are deposed in one way or another... Arab spring springs to mind (they will get a rude awakening when "democracy" appears in their region and nothing changes)

What replaces that is then up to the people. I would HOPE that they would put the free thinkers into "power" or at least the positions of responsibility, passive or not, things would get done as money is no barrier. The possessive, greedy and the aggressive just need the right medication to control their urges :rofl: oh the irony eh... they may well seek followers with which to push their agenda, but if 99%, snigger, of people just want to get on with their lives then I doubt they will want a "regime" that purposefully splits the people. Not saying that that's what we have, but it certainly isn't the democracy that's being touted.

No money removes their power in this day and age. The only way they can rule by fear is using an armed force and an armed force cannot stand against a population should the population decide to rise... primarily as not all soldiers will back their leaders if they feel what they are doing is wrong. I'm happy to be very wrong on all counts there, but I can't see "power" surviving undetected in a culture without money.

Note that I say this with bloody burning through my veins.
I'm just a guy and as such don't believe that the way you see things (I fully understand that that's all we know currently) is the only way that we can move forwards.

[SPman]

Take away my money and I am only good as a slave. As opposed to a 9-5 wage slave?


Ghandi did alright Yes Steven, but, he was a very angry man, and very political. It was how he harnessed his anger.... His power was in seeming to have no power and using it against those who thought they did have power....or something....


This person says what I want to say and more. I believe it can be done "smoothly". (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/02/04/1061889/-When-Money-No-Longer-Gets-Money?via=spotlight) You got Jame's FB link as well.........my comment exactly.

[jonbuoy]

A moneyless system where everyone is entitled to the same resources? So your all willing to give up your top 20% western lifestyle and spread your wealth among the 80% of the rest of population of earth that lives on less than $10/day? Or will this be just a countrywide decision? People will still have to barter, instead of getting paid a monthly wage you´ll get paid in food or produce.

[Number One]

Probably already been mentioned but in case not did anyone catch that show DIVE, about the guys who dumpster dive in America and the ridiculous amount of wasted food that is thrown out? Crikey dick - real eye opening - some shocking stuff!

I wonder if our supermarkets lock their dumpsters?? So many hungry people in this world and so much waste - quite depressing when you think about it and when you see constant reports about how food banks aren't getting enough donated food to meet the needs.

[mashman]

A moneyless system where everyone is entitled to the same resources? So your all willing to give up your top 20% western lifestyle and spread your wealth among the 80% of the rest of population of earth that lives on less than $10/day? Or will this be just a countrywide decision? People will still have to barter, instead of getting paid a monthly wage you´ll get paid in food or produce.

There will be a body that manages resources, we can't get away from that... this may be a "short-term" measure (50 years maybe). I'm willing to do it in NZ for all NZers and if I'm not riding my bike at any given point in time and you're not gonna be a cunt, then yes, you will be able to ride my bike too. As mad as it sounds, I reckon once a moneyless system has been proven to work, the rest of the world will move towards the same thing. I fully realise how insane that sounds :yes: but I see no way forwards for humanity where money is the gauge of value. No need for barter, we all do what needs to be done because there are those producing food, treating water, cleaning bins, keeping the sewers clean etc... and we all need to use each others services so it would seem mad to put a value on any one job. You do what you do to help people out, because others are doing what they're doing to help you out (producing food etc...). There will be massive unemployment and more than enough of us to allow us all to have 4 hour days. Educate the upcoming generation well enough (we are not born with a concept of money, it is taught) and teach them the values of doing your bit and I reckon it'll work. Everything "made" in NZ will be free.

[Ocean1]

Probably already been mentioned but in case not did anyone catch that show DIVE, about the guys who dumpster dive in America and the ridiculous amount of wasted food that is thrown out?

No. But I can tell you that at one stage Sainsburys in the UK were sourcing their organic tomatoes from Brazil. Hundreds of tons a day. Any idea how much JetA1 that takes?

[Number One]

No. But I can tell you that at one stage Sainsburys in the UK were sourcing their organic tomatoes from Brazil. Hundreds of tons a day. Any idea how much JetA1 that takes?

Ill bet a shit load of those tomatoes went to waste too! BTW in answer to your question - dunno but I'm sure it's heaps...

[Ocean1]

Ill bet a shit load of those tomatoes went to waste too! BTW in answer to your question - dunno but I'm sure it's heaps...

A 747 Freighter burns around 10 ton per hour. It's payload is about 150 ton.

By the time you add extra burn for takeoff it would take almost as much mass in kerosine as tomatoes to get from South America to Britian.

When you fuck with the market too much you get huge distortions like that.

[mashman]

A 747 Freighter burns around 10 ton per hour. It's payload is about 150 ton.

By the time you add extra burn for takeoff it would take almost as much mass in kerosine as tomatoes to get from South America to Britian.

When you fuck with the market too much you get huge distortions like that.

Holy fuckanoly... they must be some cheap tomatoes.

[blue rider]

the solution was provided in 1973


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVpN312hYgU

[Winston001]

Forget about the money fixation guys. It is merely a medium for exchange. Money is not real. It is simply how we estimate value to exchange things. The things themselves are where the value lies. Food, clothing, a house, a motorcycle.

If money in the sense you think of it was removed humans would rapidly invent a new money. Been around since the Sumarians and it ain't going away.

[SPman]

.............. No need for barter, we all do what needs to be done because there are those producing food, treating water, cleaning bins, keeping the sewers clean etc... and we all need to use each others services so it would seem mad to put a value on any one job. You do what you do to help people out, because others are doing what they're doing to help you out (producing food etc...). ........ Sounds like a utopian anarchist system to me. You haven't read any of Ursula Le Guin, have you? She did a couple of books in the early 70's, based on a society with similar values....The Dispossessed? It always seemed to appeal, in many ways - convinced me to become an anarchist.....but...of course...mention anarchy and most people go off on a familiar tangent..........

[mashman]

Sounds like a utopian anarchist system to me. You haven't read any of Ursula Le Guin, have you? She did a couple of books in the early 70's, based on a society with similar values....The Dispossessed? It always seemed to appeal, in many ways - convinced me to become an anarchist.....but...of course...mention anarchy and most people go off on a familiar tangent..........

Not sure what it would be really, sensible I'd hope :laugh:. I generally don't read as I'm a very slow reader, veeeeeerrrrrryyyyyyy slooooooooow reader according to Mrs Mash. Did any of the books turn out well? I realise that it's not a new idea and I guess I have a slight prejudice in that it has pretty much redefined my attitude in life, from lazy capitalist to confused socialist to, I dunno, something entirely different, a buddharchist maybe, dunno. Yeah, I could get behind buddharchism :blink:. Given our flaws utopia is probably a few hundred years away, if at all achievable... but I would really really really really like to know what percentage of the population would consider living in such a society.

[jonbuoy]

There will be a body that manages resources, we can't get away from that... this may be a "short-term" measure (50 years maybe). I'm willing to do it in NZ for all NZers and if I'm not riding my bike at any given point in time and you're not gonna be a cunt, then yes, you will be able to ride my bike too. As mad as it sounds, I reckon once a moneyless system has been proven to work, the rest of the world will move towards the same thing. I fully realise how insane that sounds :yes: but I see no way forwards for humanity where money is the gauge of value. No need for barter, we all do what needs to be done because there are those producing food, treating water, cleaning bins, keeping the sewers clean etc... and we all need to use each others services so it would seem mad to put a value on any one job. You do what you do to help people out, because others are doing what they're doing to help you out (producing food etc...). There will be massive unemployment and more than enough of us to allow us all to have 4 hour days. Educate the upcoming generation well enough (we are not born with a concept of money, it is taught) and teach them the values of doing your bit and I reckon it'll work. Everything "made" in NZ will be free.

If we were all reasonable responsible human beings it might work, problem is were not. I might just take your bike and not bother to bring it back again or crash it - not my problem its the peoples bike - the people can fix it. Why should I bother working emptying bins when I don´t have to work and will gain nothing by doing it. Why should I bother studying for 8 years at medicine school - maybe I´ll just surf all day instead.

One country can´t just switch - how is NZ going to buy medicines, equipment, machinery? Unless you want to go back to hunter gatherer/Amish existence - which you can do for yourself without ruining the whole country.

[Brian d marge]

Probably already been mentioned but in case not did anyone catch that show DIVE, about the guys who dumpster dive in America and the ridiculous amount of wasted food that is thrown out? Crikey dick - real eye opening - some shocking stuff!

I wonder if our supermarkets lock their dumpsters?? So many hungry people in this world and so much waste - quite depressing when you think about it and when you see constant reports about how food banks aren't getting enough donated food to meet the needs.

Downloaded it the other day , the torrent is out there

Stephen

and its pretty bad the wastage as , ive pointed out.

[mashman]

If we were all reasonable responsible human beings it might work, problem is were not. I might just take your bike and not bother to bring it back again or crash it - not my problem its the peoples bike - the people can fix it. Why should I bother working emptying bins when I don´t have to work and will gain nothing by doing it. Why should I bother studying for 8 years at medicine school - maybe I´ll just surf all day instead.

One country can´t just switch - how is NZ going to buy medicines, equipment, machinery? Unless you want to go back to hunter gatherer/Amish existence - which you can do for yourself without ruining the whole country.

I'm not expecting people to change as such, just to accept a different societal model :laugh: that will address many of the issues that people see as injustices. The bike is still mine and I'll hunt you down and give you a jolly stern telling off... and I doubt that just because there's no money that people will just stop making motorcycles... similar to people still wanting to make movies, clothes, rockets, a chair, big scarey looking statues with erect penises etc... so to a degree people should still be able to get "stuff". Fair enough, don't work then if you're gonna be selfish about it :bleh:. Ever heard a kid say, when I grow up I wanna be a Dr, as long as everyone else trains for 8 years as it's just so unfair, why can't I just be a Dr as the bin man doesn't require any training. Surf away, but it would be appreciated if you'd spend 4 hours(ish) a day doing something that needs to be done.

NZ will still export stuff. It will still be paid for at market rates, however labour will be free, as will transport to the dock, there will be no GST, no tax, no fuel charges etc... so when we sell the country gets 100% of the profit and out bank, yes bank (for want of a better expression), will invest everyones money on our behalf. NZ could be viewed as an all inclusive resort and any money made from tourism, which is a lot I believe, will go into the pot too. Our imports won't have GST, tax, dock to warehouse costs, just the overseas purchase costs, so medicine like fuel will be cheaper to use, well free. Being a market of educated free labour we could become a call centre for overseas companies for a small fee, we could become a tax haven for large corporate head offices for a small fee as they won't have to worry about paying wages in NZ for a free workforce... and no doubt thousands of other ways that NZ could support itself in the global financial marketplace.

[carbonhed]

What kinda bikes are we riding in this moneyless society? And how the fuck am I going to get a Panigale????

[ducatilover]

And how the fuck am I going to get a Panigale????
It'll be free won't it? :bleh:

[carbonhed]

It'll be free won't it? :bleh:

How fucking awesome is that! It'll be like North Korea but with cool vehicles. I could have a Lamborghini Aventador for when it's raining... maybe a couple.

[ducatilover]

How fucking awesome is that! It'll be like North Korea but with cool vehicles. I could have a Lamborghini Aventador for when it's raining... maybe a couple.
Sounds like a plan to me :devil2:

[mashman]

What kinda bikes are we riding in this moneyless society? And how the fuck am I going to get a Panigale????

You'll be riding what you have now. Move to Italy.

[Brian d marge]

[QUOTE=SPman;

Yes Steven, but, he was a very angry man, and very political. It was how he harnessed his anger.... His power was in seeming to have no power and using it against those who thought they did have power....or something....

.[/QUOTE]

I think a few people are there already , and if they try to impose, those idiotic rules the europeans are trying to get through,,,, Your average " Ghandi ," is going a whiter shade of pale ,

Stephen

[carbonhed]

You'll be riding what you have now. Move to Italy.

Arrrgh! So it's going to be like North Korea but with Cuba's vehicle fleet? How awesome is that?

[jonbuoy]

I'm not expecting people to change as such, just to accept a different societal model :laugh: that will address many of the issues that people see as injustices. The bike is still mine and I'll hunt you down and give you a jolly stern telling off... and I doubt that just because there's no money that people will just stop making motorcycles... similar to people still wanting to make movies, clothes, rockets, a chair, big scarey looking statues with erect penises etc... so to a degree people should still be able to get "stuff". Fair enough, don't work then if you're gonna be selfish about it :bleh:. Ever heard a kid say, when I grow up I wanna be a Dr, as long as everyone else trains for 8 years as it's just so unfair, why can't I just be a Dr as the bin man doesn't require any training. Surf away, but it would be appreciated if you'd spend 4 hours(ish) a day doing something that needs to be done.

NZ will still export stuff. It will still be paid for at market rates, however labour will be free, as will transport to the dock, there will be no GST, no tax, no fuel charges etc... so when we sell the country gets 100% of the profit and out bank, yes bank (for want of a better expression), will invest everyones money on our behalf. NZ could be viewed as an all inclusive resort and any money made from tourism, which is a lot I believe, will go into the pot too. Our imports won't have GST, tax, dock to warehouse costs, just the overseas purchase costs, so medicine like fuel will be cheaper to use, well free. Being a market of educated free labour we could become a call centre for overseas companies for a small fee, we could become a tax haven for large corporate head offices for a small fee as they won't have to worry about paying wages in NZ for a free workforce... and no doubt thousands of other ways that NZ could support itself in the global financial marketplace.

Still these words are in your idea - "Bank" "money from exports" "money from tourism". If the whole world went moneyless NZ wouldn´t be able to make everything it has today - it doesn´t have the population to support synthesising of drugs for medical care that are available world wide, it can´t make all the components for a flat screen TV. What are they going to do - try and swap 10 legs of lamb for a bag of tantalum capacitors or 5 doses of the latest cancer treatment, 100 cows for an MRI scanner? It just won´t work. How are tourists going to spend money in a moneyless country?

[mashman]

Arrrgh! So it's going to be like North Korea but with Cuba's vehicle fleet? How awesome is that?

We could take over the world with No 8 and duct tape... At the end of the day it will all depend on the balance sheet. We will still be living in a financial world. If our exports (inc tourism and working population) are less than our imports then there will be money left over for personal imports.


Still these words are in your idea - "Bank" "money from exports" "money from tourism". If the whole world went moneyless NZ wouldn´t be able to make everything it has today - it doesn´t have the population to support synthesising of drugs for medical care that are available world wide, it can´t make all the components for a flat screen TV. What are they going to do - try and swap 10 legs of lamb for a bag of tantalum capacitors or 5 doses of the latest cancer treatment, 100 cows for an MRI scanner? It just won´t work. How are tourists going to spend money in a moneyless country?

If the whole world went moneyless then I think the last thing we're going to be worrying about is a new TV... and that doesn't mean that TV's won't be made, similar to other useful technology like phones, perhaps we'll all have tablets instead of PC's, or personal computers that we hang around out necks (the tech is there), dunno, but iterating through technology as we do in terms quantity, frequency and lack or reuseability really isn't helping matters in terms of global resource wasteage. I don't see us going back to the 19th century at all, nowhere near it, but we need to start managing things better imho. Bikes will still be made, hell they may even become the predominant mode of transport.

In terms of NZ "blazing the trail", we will need A bank to manage the finances of the country and that bank will have to deal with the rest of the world using money, it'll be the internal economy that won't need it. If the world goes to shit and fuel stop flowing then it won't matter if we have money or not as there will be no fuel and we'll have to revert to the 19th century living. I believe that living without money before that happens would give NZ a head start in regards to not noticing the pain as much as the financial countries. In terms of the sky not falling, it'll give us some form of insulation during times of recession, shit will still get built as local resources won't be subject to inflation, deflation, market ups and downs (exports the exception) etc... similar to natural disaster, if there's no money required for a rebuild as our resources are free, we won;t need to wait for insurance companies to sell assets etc... before they pay out, noone will need insurance either.

As you say 100 cows for an MRI etc... isn't going to work where those who sell MRI's require money in return. We will need to generate money in some form or other... until the rest of the world decides that living without money gives us a decent start point at having a crack at the big issues of the day. I don't see borders closing because there's no money, quite the opposite (that'll scare SMOKEU) and with any luck those who make MRI's will continue to do so and will make them for the world, where NZ will produce shit loads of milk and lamb and Brazil will export high quality cheap tomatoes etc... and not for money or barter, but because they can and because other country's need those things. We will do it because it needs to be done, not because there's a $ in it, which will hopefully allow us to take our foot off the gas a bit without sacrificing quality of life.

Money makes the world go around? Yet if there's no money and people just do what they're currently doing, stuff will still be made and things will get better a damn site quicker than they are for everyone and we may actually have a shot at "peace" and global cooperation for a change. I have a dream I guess :yes:.

[SMOKEU]

technology like phones, perhaps we'll all have tablets instead of PC's, or personal computers that we hang around out necks (the tech is there)

No the technology isn't there yet. There is no substitute for a high end gaming desktop computer.

[mashman]

No the technology isn't there yet. There is no substitute for a high end gaming desktop computer.

This was 3 years ago (http://www.slashgear.com/wearable-projection-computer-project-internet-sixth-sense-0633300/)

[carbonhed]

We could take over the world with No 8 and duct tape...

Errrr... actually... no we couldn't and when you come off your meds you'll realise this. I hope they manage the withdrawal carefully.

Anyway if you can't walk into Motomart and buy a Panigale in your world then you can cram it up your arse. The only people who want to get rid of money are the sad, talentlers, losers who don't have any.

[SMOKEU]

This was 3 years ago (http://www.slashgear.com/wearable-projection-computer-project-internet-sixth-sense-0633300/)

High performance = high power consumption = high heat output. That's why even the best laptops can only equal a mid range desktop for performance.

[rainman]

When you fuck with the market too much you get huge distortions like that.

What market fuckeration do you think is happening here?

[mashman]

Errrr... actually... no we couldn't and when you come off your meds you'll realise this. I hope they manage the withdrawal carefully.

Anyway if you can't walk into Motomart and buy a Panigale in your world then you can cram it up your arse. The only people who want to get rid of money are the sad, talentlers, losers who don't have any.

I get the feeling that I need to go back on them.

You wouldn't buy anything in my world :facepalm: and as the sun shines out of my arse I'd sun burn my head which is something I really don't enjoy. That must be the case.



High performance = high power consumption = high heat output. That's why even the best laptops can only equal a mid range desktop for performance.

Coz yer gonna need that for typing up documents or recording video and voice or using the calculator function or searching the internet or checking your email or video conferencing etc...

edit: and if we're trying to keep power consumption they'd be a great substitute for office working.

[mashman]

What market fuckeration do you think is happening here?

FTA's?+chars

[avgas]

Ghandi did alright

Stephen
So did Mao and Stalin in the early days. Even Hitler was "voted forward" before he became a bully.

While I would like to say Ghandi didn't have a bad bone in his body..........some of the people next to him may have unfortunately.

[avgas]

No money removes their power in this day and age. The only way they can rule by fear is using an armed force and an armed force cannot stand against a population should the population decide to rise... primarily as not all soldiers will back their leaders if they feel what they are doing is wrong. I'm happy to be very wrong on all counts there, but I can't see "power" surviving undetected in a culture without money.
Quick questions. How often have Soldiers reflected that what they did in the past was wrong? Did it matter that they were paid? Have all Soldiers who did wrong, or didn't believe what their boss told them but did it anyway always been paid?

Said it before and say it again, Power is not always achieved with money. And absolute power corrupts absolutely.
As for it being undetected - nope, it will be obvious and in your face. Giant Pyramids, massive churches and stone statues have been erected for less.

[mashman]

Quick questions. How often have Soldiers reflected that what they did in the past was wrong? Did it matter that they were paid? Have all Soldiers who did wrong, or didn't believe what their boss told them but did it anyway always been paid?

Said it before and say it again, Power is not always achieved with money. And absolute power corrupts absolutely.
As for it being undetected - nope, it will be obvious and in your face. Giant Pyramids, massive churches and stone statues have been erected for less.

Dunno, but interesting questions. I would imagine if they're reflecting on what they've done then they would only be able to "dismiss" it as doing their job. Maybe they don't reflect on it at all, but you'd have to be pretty "soulless" to not feel some form of remorse for those that you've maimed/killed, legally or not. Perhaps they hate the thought that they were paid for it, but I would have thought the going against your better judgement would be a harsher thing to deal with. I realise that soldiers are trained to kill, but where it comes to their own population I would hope that they'd query the order before carrying out the sentence.

I agree, but in this day and age it's the primary driver, and as mentioned earlier, if there wasn't any money and people were pissed off with the way things were going, I reckon we'd see more Arab Spring type oustings in the western world or even out and out murder of those considered to be "abusing" power. Something about that idea tickles me, I dunno why :innocent:.

[blue rider]

http://www.gbn.com/articles/pdfs/Abrupt%20Climate%20Change%20February%202004.pdf

a bit of a read, some assumptions and scenarios dating all the way back to 2003, but a good read....

[jonbuoy]

We could take over the world with No 8 and duct tape... At the end of the day it will all depend on the balance sheet. We will still be living in a financial world. If our exports (inc tourism and working population) are less than our imports then there will be money left over for personal imports.



If the whole world went moneyless then I think the last thing we're going to be worrying about is a new TV... and that doesn't mean that TV's won't be made, similar to other useful technology like phones, perhaps we'll all have tablets instead of PC's, or personal computers that we hang around out necks (the tech is there), dunno, but iterating through technology as we do in terms quantity, frequency and lack or reuseability really isn't helping matters in terms of global resource wasteage. I don't see us going back to the 19th century at all, nowhere near it, but we need to start managing things better imho. Bikes will still be made, hell they may even become the predominant mode of transport.

In terms of NZ "blazing the trail", we will need A bank to manage the finances of the country and that bank will have to deal with the rest of the world using money, it'll be the internal economy that won't need it. If the world goes to shit and fuel stop flowing then it won't matter if we have money or not as there will be no fuel and we'll have to revert to the 19th century living. I believe that living without money before that happens would give NZ a head start in regards to not noticing the pain as much as the financial countries. In terms of the sky not falling, it'll give us some form of insulation during times of recession, shit will still get built as local resources won't be subject to inflation, deflation, market ups and downs (exports the exception) etc... similar to natural disaster, if there's no money required for a rebuild as our resources are free, we won;t need to wait for insurance companies to sell assets etc... before they pay out, noone will need insurance either.

As you say 100 cows for an MRI etc... isn't going to work where those who sell MRI's require money in return. We will need to generate money in some form or other... until the rest of the world decides that living without money gives us a decent start point at having a crack at the big issues of the day. I don't see borders closing because there's no money, quite the opposite (that'll scare SMOKEU) and with any luck those who make MRI's will continue to do so and will make them for the world, where NZ will produce shit loads of milk and lamb and Brazil will export high quality cheap tomatoes etc... and not for money or barter, but because they can and because other country's need those things. We will do it because it needs to be done, not because there's a $ in it, which will hopefully allow us to take our foot off the gas a bit without sacrificing quality of life.

Money makes the world go around? Yet if there's no money and people just do what they're currently doing, stuff will still be made and things will get better a damn site quicker than they are for everyone and we may actually have a shot at "peace" and global cooperation for a change. I have a dream I guess :yes:.

Its probably a workable system in a Utopia with smart responsible, selfless population - trouble is that would probably exclude 99% of the planets population.

[mashman]

Its probably a workable system in a Utopia with smart responsible, selfless population - trouble is that would probably exclude 99% of the planets population.

Heh, Utopia ain't gonna happen, we're arseholes... people will still beat kids, people will still kill each other, people will still fuck people over etc... but I would imagine to a lesser degree without the dreaded $ fuelling people's greed. I almost agree with you, I honestly do, but there's a niggling part of me that won't/can't accept that people are so inflexible towards change that they'd rather see their countrymen and people across the globe suffer. I have changed my mind and I believe that 99%, ok let's go for a ratio of management v's worker, say 1 in 3 (ass hat figure), so I believe that 66% of the worlds population, when given the option and having someone there to answer their questions, would rather have human advancement and a "stable" society instead of what we have. So I guess the $64 million question is, would you live in that society? Could you? Yes, I realise that this post is on KB :laugh:

[rainman]

FTA's?+chars

I suppose I actually meant "in that case' rather then "here", as it almost sounds like Ocean1 was suggesting that people demanding/preferring organic food was in some way fucking around with The Market, and it would all just work better if them hippies just ate the goddamn corporatefood.

But FTAs is a good answer too... and of course The Free Market is a myth of gargantuan proportions, right up there with Progress and Liberty (for given values of same).

[Ocean1]

it almost sounds like Ocean1 was suggesting that people demanding/preferring organic food was in some way fucking around with The Market, and it would all just work better if them hippies just ate the goddamn corporatefood.

It almost sounds like you're suggesting them hippies are avoiding goddamn cororatefood by demanding/preferring organic.

"The Market" is you. The goddamn corporates wouldn't survive long if they tried to sell food their customers didn't want. Those tomatoes, (organic and otherwise) are all within a couple of mm in size, a specific colour variation and with tight spec's on a shitload of mostly visual variables including attached foliage. Your choice. The consequences of crop selection and culture for the above is taste, there isn't any. There's zero chance of finding a bug in there, and not much chance of finding any flavour either, organic or otherwise.

Your choice.

[Oblivion]

It almost sounds like you're suggesting them hippies are avoiding goddamn cororatefood by demanding/preferring organic.

"The Market" is you. The goddamn corporates wouldn't survive long if they tried to sell food their customers didn't want. Those tomatoes, (organic and otherwise) are all within a couple of mm in size, a specific colour variation and with tight spec's on a shitload of mostly visual variables including attached foliage. Your choice. The consequences of crop selection and culture for the above is taste, there isn't any. There's zero chance of finding a bug in there, and not much chance of finding any flavour either, organic or otherwise.

Your choice.

Ah... I can imagine the future that we'll live in, in another 100 or so years time. Humanity has long wiped out the bees from existance, due to idiosyncratic idiots poisoning them in an attempt to save them. Leaving us to resort to having to eat mass artificially produced food by the BIG CORPORATIONS.

Food at the moment is a free market. If someone is sick of having to pay x$ for a weeks worth of vegetables, then they have the choice to grow their own. Just wait until humanity ****s up the future. And then you can bitch about having organic food. Oh wait you can't. You cant grow anything, since the main natural pollinating source is extinct.

Ocean1 is right. The market is you. You can easily save yourself a few hundred $ a year by growing your own vegetables. No-one can say to you that their not organic when you grew them in your back yard. When you cant grow them anymore, you're going to have slim pickings choosing what vegetables you can buy my friend.

[Winston001]

You can easily save yourself a few hundred $ a year by growing your own vegetables. No-one can say to you that their not organic when you grew them in your back yard.

I'm with you there although I'm no gardener. Unfortunately modern properties have damned all land to cultivate.

In the Dark Ages a hide was the amount of land required to support a peasant family. About 120 acres but the family would be large and cover three generations.

In the Middle Ages this reduced to an acre.

By the 18th century a quarter acre was enough to feed a family and thus quarter acre sections were standard until the late 1960s.

Today the average suburban section is 1/6 of an acre covered by a 180m2 home, garge, and landscaping. Sod all room for the vege patch.

[Winston001]

I... it almost sounds like Ocean1 was suggesting that people demanding/preferring organic food was in some way fucking around with The Market, and it would all just work better if them hippies just ate the goddamn corporatefood.



Personally having grown up on a farm I'm all for organic (non-pesticide etc) food. For me that is normal.

The problem is the consumer doesn't care. Tomatoes at $3.50kg (imported from OZ) or NZ organic tomatoes at $7.50kg? Spend a few minutes watching shoppers deciding which to buy. Price conquers all.

Organic milk produced in NZ is not profitable. I'm a bit stunned at this but Fonterra have dropped organic milk as unprofitable. NZ Dairy could pick that up - but I don't think they have. Which tells us the number of discriminating consumers is small indeed.

[blue rider]

Personally having grown up on a farm I'm all for organic (non-pesticide etc) food. For me that is normal.

The problem is the consumer doesn't care. Tomatoes at $3.50kg (imported from OZ) or NZ organic tomatoes at $7.50kg? Spend a few minutes watching shoppers deciding which to buy. Price conquers all.

Organic milk produced in NZ is not profitable. I'm a bit stunned at this but Fonterra have dropped organic milk as unprofitable. NZ Dairy could pick that up - but I don't think they have. Which tells us the number of discriminating consumers is small indeed.

i don't think that people don't care, people don't have the money....the average wage in NZ, after rent, utilities and transport (mainly to work) will leave a limited budget.
There are also areas in NZ that are food wastelands, one would not even find a genetically modified tomato.

We use to much land to produce one product, i currently it is milk...., a new area of mono culture.....

and Fonterra decided long ago the milk in NZ was not profitable, there is not enough of us....however when in Germany i can get a litre of NZ finest for about $1.50 incl. 18.5 % GST, transport and mark up , yet the European milk farmer will pour his milk in protest as they only get some $0.42 cents per litre.

[Brian d marge]

I'm with you there although I'm no gardener. Unfortunately modern properties have damned all land to cultivate.

In the Dark Ages a hide was the amount of land required to support a peasant family. About 120 acres but the family would be large and cover three generations.

In the Middle Ages this reduced to an acre.

By the 18th century a quarter acre was enough to feed a family and thus quarter acre sections were standard until the late 1960s.

Today the average suburban section is 1/6 of an acre covered by a 180m2 home, garge, and landscaping. Sod all room for the vege patch.

Maaate , you want to see a small vege patch have a look at my garden 15m^2 if that ,,,, but i got a crop of garlic, potatoes , pumpkin, leeks, spinach ( just eating the last of the pumpkin as we speak ) , I also got ginger and a few runner beans oh and Goya ( Japanese thing )

UP , is the answer pumpkin went on garage roof ( cooled the place in summer as well), i tried lettuce in pots on the fence ,, ...yes well .eerm try again this year

oh and I tried cabbage , but ,, again yes well

At the moment I have a small aquaponics experiment ( thats working REALLY well ) and a 3d view to gardening , I may only have 15m but the sky is the limit ( and so is soil, I am composting as much as I can , but will still have to buy in soil , this year , I think )

it really is good , Im drinking my beer I made , and eating tea from the veges I made ( kind of as its winter here ) screw you america ,,,,,,,, ! Ha who needs your stinkin money!!!

Damn bike is gasoline ,,,bugga ......

Stephen

[mashman]

UP , is the answer

At the moment I have a small aquaponics experiment ( thats working REALLY well )

+1 on the UP.

Got any piccies? My hydroponic experiment went pretty well had an absolutely kick ass tomato plant that just kept on givin... but want to take it to the next level or have a crack at aquaponics.

[Brian d marge]

+1 on the UP.

Got any piccies? My hydroponic experiment went pretty well had an absolutely kick ass tomato plant that just kept on givin... but want to take it to the next level or have a crack at aquaponics.

at the moment I am being hypocritical, enjoying cheap claret and pizza....cheap
but when I get home I will take a photo
it really works ... and if I can do it anyone can
at the mo ,its just an experiment with a few gold fish. but the plant loves it and is successful
so as a proof of concept .. it works

post pic later

stephen

[mashman]

I took this out of the vege patch at the end of summer last year as it was getting a little blight and used it as a hydroponic guinea pig along with some broccoli. I stuffed the broccoli by making the solution too powerful and it flowered way too soon and the tubs they grew in are way too deep.
257213
anyhoo, the beast was at least half the height of the stick again and all over the place. I grew it in my bedroom :yes:. It did attract some form of white fly, but nothing that a wee water squirter every couple of weeks couldn't solve. She were a beauty and the toms were bouncy ball size, some bigger but not bad for a Tiny Tim Cherry Tomato plant and we must have had a few hundred off the one plant :yes:. I chucked it out about a month ago and as you can see there's still about 40 toms on it... T'was fun.
257212

[Brian d marge]

A bit rough and ready , but this is in my office next to this computer
the other is my front garden of me house ,,,

257230257231

Stephen

[mashman]

noice... does the tank algae up much? or does the plant remove that shit?

[SMOKEU]

+1 on the UP.
My hydroponic experiment went pretty well had an absolutely kick ass tomato plant that just kept on givin...

Sure, a "tomato" plant.

[mashman]

Sure, a "tomato" plant.

Ya see tomatoes on the pic right? I did myself a home made grow lamp too (Cardboard back off of a Pad of paper, 130 LEDs and a smashed up pair of old speakers for parts that would plug into the mains or run off a 12v battery), went too heavy on the orange LEDs though I reckon and couldn't be fucked getting the mirrors etc... to reflect the light, plus the plant was growing. Also noted that I probably needed the seriously expensive LEDs to get any real "light" out of it... but it's a pretty colour when lit up :)

257232

[Brian d marge]

noice... does the tank algae up much? or does the plant remove that shit?

no algae as its aerated, and the plant do "stuff" of which Im not sure ,,,

I will increase the fish , and this summer "try" a larger scale to grow lettuce or spinach ,

Also remember our plants are naturally Radiated from Fukushima so they are pest free,,,

Stephen

tis the future ,,,,,,,

[Brian d marge]

Ya see tomatoes on the pic right? I did myself a home made grow lamp too (Cardboard back off of a Pad of paper, 130 LEDs and a smashed up pair of old speakers for parts that would plug into the mains or run off a 12v battery), went too heavy on the orange LEDs though I reckon and couldn't be fucked getting the mirrors etc... to reflect the light, plus the plant was growing. Also noted that I probably needed the seriously expensive LEDs to get any real "light" out of it... but it's a pretty colour when lit up :)

257232

so if I went to akihabara, looking for LEDS , what would I be looking for, to be able to gro lettuce all year round in my office would be awesumanal .... pity I dont smoke as , i could be rich ..... rich I tell you

Stephen

[mashman]

tis the future ,,,,,,,

Completely agree... 60 foot by 20 foot cylindrical plastic/glass towers growing veggies, solar/wind powered dehumidifier, just add fish :)... oh to have the spare cash to try out a 20 foot version... t'would produce a fuck load of veggies in next to no space.