What Price a Life?

[Paul in NZ]

FFS - knocking a 64 year old man on the head for a few bucks....

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/6822583/Hutt-Valley-bus-driver-found-dead

Shit oh dear - its not like these guys earn fortune or anything. This really is shit!!!! I dunnu - I dont even use busses but this really aint right. What do we do???

[SMOKEU]

I bet the offender(s) is/are black.

[mashman]

I bet if we didn't rely on money he'd still be alive... there's a solution in those 12 words, but life is worth fuck all so the solution will be ignored :yes: I truly feel for his family.

[Flip]

I bet the offender(s) is/are black.

I bet the offenders are poor.

[unstuck]

I bet the offenders are weak arsed cowardly scumbags.:2guns:

[Pussy]

I bet the offenders are poor.

I'll bet the offenders are fucken pond scum who can't be bothered getting off their lazy arses and working.

[Usarka]

If the old guy ever did a runner from the cops then he deserved it. According to the other thread in here.

[Hitcher]

I bet the offender(s) is/are black.

Racist stereotyping may make you feel smugly superior but adds no value to any discussion about this or other similar crimes.

[FJRider]

Racist stereotyping may make you feel smugly superior but adds no value to any discussion about this or other similar crimes.

You know big words just confuse him ... :rolleyes:

[SMOKEU]

Racist stereotyping may make you feel smugly superior but adds no value to any discussion about this or other similar crimes.

So how much are you betting?

[Paul in NZ]

I bet the offenders are poor.

Thats just plain insulting......

We have all been poor at one stage or other but kil a 64 year old man, not randomly but i'd sugest in a planned crime is horrid. You can be poor and honest - I've dealt with folks with addictions and illnesses that wouldnt stoop to this no matter how poor they are financially. This speaks of a poorness of spirit that almost defies the definition of humanity.

These kids were likely not rich but the right thing

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10801926

He was an immigrant bus driver FFS. Almost by defini he was not a wealthy man. This is HORRIBLE!

My question is - what can we do to sop this rot, turn things around or even show solidarity...

[Asher]

Poor people tend to be more honest than the rich.

[Pussy]

My question is - what can we do to sop this rot, turn things around or even show solidarity...

We could start by not being so fucken PC and tolerant of arseholes like these cunts, Paul.
Wherever you look nowadays, crims like them bloody near get deity status.
"Not their fault".. "deprived upbringing" etc etc. My arse! Discipline is the answer!

[GingerMidget]

I bet the offender(s) is/are black.

It doesn't matter what colour they are. They hit somebody from behind to take money, and ran the second they had it. I doubt they meant to kill the poor man, but thats what has happened, and somebody knows who this 'person' is.

Nobody is any more likely to kill another person simply based upon their skin colour. Thats like saying all somali's are taxi drivers and pirates, all catholics are kiddie fiddlers, and all indians own dairies.

The minute you start labelling groups, reveals more about you, than any aspersions you hope to cast upon said racial group.

For the record, I don't think the same thing about any of the above groups, they just happened to be the first ones I could think of.

[GingerMidget]

Poor people tend to be more honest than the rich.

This is so true!

One article http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/health/2012/02/27/are-rich-people-unethical/

Poor people tend to work harder for what they have so appreciate it more than those who just have it already.

[Hitcher]

Poor people tend to be more honest than the rich.

Bullshit. Honesty isn't a function of wealth or status.

[Hitcher]

This is so true!

One article http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/health/2012/02/27/are-rich-people-unethical/

Poor people tend to work harder for what they have so appreciate it more than those who just have it already.

What a load of sanctimonious twaddle.

[SMOKEU]

It doesn't matter what colour they are. They hit somebody from behind to take money, and ran the second they had it. I doubt they meant to kill the poor man, but thats what has happened, and somebody knows who this 'person' is.

Nobody is any more likely to kill another person simply based upon their skin colour. Thats like saying all somali's are taxi drivers and pirates, all catholics are kiddie fiddlers, and all indians own dairies.

The minute you start labelling groups, reveals more about you, than any aspersions you hope to cast upon said racial group.

For the record, I don't think the same thing about any of the above groups, they just happened to be the first ones I could think of.

Compare the number of Maoris in prison vs the number of white people in prison in NZ. Then have a look at what percentage Maori people make up of the total population in NZ. The statistics don't lie. I rest my case.

[ducatilover]

Compare the number of Maoris in prison vs the number of white people in prison in NZ. Then have a look at what percentage Maori people make up of the total population in NZ. The statistics don't lie. I rest my case.

Or perhaps they get caught more than white folks? Are you chopping the groups in to percentage of Maori blood, or just anyone claiming to be Maori if they have 1/64th in 'em?

[Hitcher]

Compare the number of Maoris in prison vs the number of white people in prison in NZ. Then have a look at what percentage Maori people make up of the total population in NZ. The statistics don't lie. I rest my case.

Could I suggest that this is a socio-economic issue rather than a racial one. Don't rest your case just yet.

[Usarka]

Could I suggest that this is a socio-economic issue rather than a racial one. Don't rest your case just yet.

But it is black and white.

/sarc

[ducatilover]

Could I suggest that this is a socio-economic issue rather than a racial one. Don't rest your case just yet.

Not like there will be any/many full blooded Maori in prison, so his case is useless.

[SMOKEU]

Or perhaps they get caught more than white folks? Are you chopping the groups in to percentage of Maori blood, or just anyone claiming to be Maori if they have 1/64th in 'em?

You're the one telling the story.


Could I suggest that this is a socio-economic issue rather than a racial one. Don't rest your case just yet.

Explain to me why it's a "socio economic" issue, rather than "monkeys gone wild".

[GingerMidget]

Could I suggest that this is a socio-economic issue rather than a racial one. Don't rest your case just yet.

Yes. The hutt ain't that big, so unless they (and their friends) are total low lifes, they will be found. I'd say you have to be pretty desperate to do something like that to begin with, so for them to suddenly have money would be pretty strange.

Or maybe I just give people too much credit for not sucking entirely?

[ducatilover]

You're the one telling the story.





What are you claiming is a "Maori".
Are you aware of how many true Maori are left?

[supa.m]

Compare the number of Maoris in prison vs the number of white people in prison in NZ. Then have a look at what percentage Maori people make up of the total population in NZ. The statistics don't lie. I rest my case.

Someone once said there were three types of lies... lies.. damn lies... and statistics. Can't say I disagree.

[scumdog]

Compare the number of Maoris in prison vs the number of white people in prison in NZ. Then have a look at what percentage Maori people make up of the total population in NZ. The statistics don't lie. I rest my case.


Maybe it's all the criminal honky blood flowing through the veins of all those Maori that made them do it - after all, they may call themselves Maori but most have mainly european blood.

Look at what percentage Maori is in their makeup, statistics don't lie.

[awayatc]

Not a recial issue....
nor poverty.....
nor socio economic....
It is just about the number of vowels in your name....

Want to make a bet that he/they are on a benefit?
Want to make another that they are the product of our state sponsored breeding program?

[unstuck]

Whats the bet they stay in bed until 2pm, get up and play x-box or playstation until it is dark and then go and hang out around a local park or shopping center with their pantsdown around their arses mates until they find enough to steal for another tinny.:devil2:

[meteor]

Compare the number of Maoris in prison vs the number of white people in prison in NZ. Then have a look at what percentage Maori people make up of the total population in NZ. The statistics don't lie. I rest my case.

You could break it down further and see what propensity different ethnicitys have for serious assualt (the woudings, GBH, injurings) andthe armed robberies, violent or sexual offending. I don't think it would be much of a surprise to most which group is responsible for the most heinous offending. Can't fix a problem if you don't want to admit it. I can understand why people steal, use drugs, commit fraud etc but the escalating violence of today's crimes worries me.

[Andy67]

Poor people tend to be more honest than the rich.

That's true on so many levels.

Recently lost my wallet, it jumped out of my bike pack going over some judder bars in Avondale, I re traced my route, no luck. I was flying out at 7am the following morning for a business trip. Basically I was goosed.

Received a txt when I got home saying they sender had found something and to get in touch. Tongan family had found my wallet and without being disrespectful they looked pretty poor to me. All my stuff was as it was and the cash, was still there.

The hassle they saved me was tremendous.

[Andy67]

Bullshit. Honesty isn't a function of wealth or status.

True but wealthy people seem to consistently feature in studies like this:

http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2012/02/income-and-ethics/

Just saying.

[meteor]

That's true on so many levels... Tongan family had found my wallet and without being disrespectful they looked pretty poor to me. All my stuff was as it was and the cash, was still there....

Actually I've got to agree there, I've found that the most generous people in this world are those that have the least! Probably a lesson in that. But you also have to ask the question, what do you consider wealthy? a person with many friends who sleeps well and has no regrets or a person with a full garage and bank account with no one but his employees to talk to? Sorry, too deep for a Sunday morning and I haven't had my bacon and eggs yet!

[Andy67]

Actually I've got to agree there, I've found that the most generous people in this world are those that have the least! Probably a lesson in that. But you also have to ask the question, what do you consider wealthy? a person with many friends who sleeps well and has no regrets or a person with a full garage and bank account with no one but his employees to talk to? Sorry, too deep for a Sunday morning and I haven't had my bacon and eggs yet!

If you ever get a chance, read this:

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/markets/article-1636263/Review-Cityboy-Beer-and-Loathing-in-the-Square-Mile.html
O
Some interesting insights from the authors perspective about exactly what drives happiness.

[Bad Biker]

Shit oh dear - its not like these guys earn fortune or anything. This really is shit!!!! I dunnu - I dont even use busses but this really aint right. What do we do???

It is a sad day when a person loses their life only because they are trying to make an honest living and supporting their family.
Unfortunately this is going to continue until the government grow a set of balls (or borrow someone else’s)
In my humble opinion these so called people that commit violent or socially repugnant crimes have too many rights. These are my thoughts that may make people think about committing a crime in the first place.
• Name suppression – allowable for 24 hours total to allow time to inform their family (across the board)
• 10 prison sentence means 10 year sentence then consider parole – not that you can get out once completing a third of your sentence because you have been a good person in a surrounding full of violent offenders – That is the reason they are there because they cannot live with us law-abiding citizens.
• Home detention should be for a 3 year period following the realise from prison
• In a 24hr day prisons should get 2x1hr exercise periods - they are there for a reason lost their rights when committing the crime.
A custodial sentence is meant to be a punishment left make it a punishment.
The Justice system tends to forget or not acknowledge that while the perpetrator of a violent crime may do 10-20 years in prison the victims and families do serve a life sentence which they will take to their grave.
Just my thoughts, let’s make people fear going t prison and stop pandering to them, if they want the luxuries that the rest of us enjoy then don’t do the crime!

STOP BEING SOFT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[SMOKEU]

What are you claiming is a "Maori".
Are you aware of how many true Maori are left?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=maori


You could break it down further and see what propensity different ethnicitys have for serious assualt (the woudings, GBH, injurings) andthe armed robberies, violent or sexual offending. I don't think it would be much of a surprise to most which group is responsible for the most heinous offending. Can't fix a problem if you don't want to admit it. I can understand why people steal, use drugs, commit fraud etc but the escalating violence of today's crimes worries me.

+1 to that.

[tigertim20]

Compare the number of Maoris in prison vs the number of white people in prison in NZ. Then have a look at what percentage Maori people make up of the total population in NZ. The statistics don't lie. I rest my case.
perhaps you should delve a little bit deeper into the facts, before taking the baseline stats as an accurate measure of truth.

Are you aware of what constitutes 'maori' in the accepted legal/official realm?
A person who is full, half, 1/4, 1/8, 1/16, 1/32, 1/64, 1/128, 1/256 can be identified as being 'maori', thus in truth, there may have been quite a large number of generations pass, since there was any maori blood injected into the bloodline of an offender who is classed as/ identifies as, being a 'maori'.
remember smoke, someone that is 1/4 maori, is probably at least 1/2 european. - so a huge number of offenders that you refer to are actually 'more white than black'.

Its funny, so many people like to complain about how maori get certain benefits in New Zealand - theyll say 'why the fuck is XXXX allowedf to play for the NZ maori rugby team, he's only an eighth maori' or 'how come that kid gets xxxx benefit when (s)he is only 1/32 maori'
But the very same people will jump up and say 'I told you that offender would be a black/maori person' - ignoring the fact that the offender to which they refer is really only 1/128th maori, and a considerably larger part of their heritage is european.

You gotta get some consistency going here smoke, take a deeper look before spouting BS about a persons propensity to violence or crime of any sort based on their ethnicity.

Oh, I should also add that there are different considering factors for different collections of statistics, meaning that there will be a different emphasis on race, and other factors depending on what the statistics are being collected for. the same factors for a NZ census are not the same as those applied to an overview of the prison population - so a prison population comparison to a census is not necessarily an accurate measure.

What are you claiming is a "Maori".
Are you aware of how many true Maori are left?
as above, and for fuck sakes, dont get into the 'true maori' - how do you define a 'true maori'? your definition, min, and that of someone who identifies as being maori will all be different.

[mashman]

:rofl:... what makes these people do these things. This sort of thing is the fault of society. Prison is not, and never has been a deterrent to those who are willing to commit crime. You either make an example of them by implementing some form of Sharia law or you change your societal model by removing the motive for the crime. It isn't hard. As for the govt growing balls, they can only do so much and the people who really need a set of balls are you and me. If you really want these crimes to stop, the answer is obvious... but it would seem that most of you don't have the balls for it because you need to feel superior to someone else due to your perceived self worth. Until you drop your considerably better than yow attitude fuck all will change. Prison sentencing has always been there and yet things are getting worse. The reason is obvious. Remove that which drives these people and change your perception or STFU.

[flyingcrocodile46]

I bet the offender(s) is/are black.


Compare the number of Maoris in prison vs the number of white people in prison in NZ. Then have a look at what percentage Maori people make up of the total population in NZ. The statistics don't lie. I rest my case.

FFS aren't you the antagonistic racist little yarpie fuck stain. The irony is astounding

Did you know that 90% of yarpies suck dick and that only 30% of you are proper females?



perhaps you should delve a little bit deeper into the facts, before taking the baseline stats as an accurate measure of truth.

Are you aware of what constitutes 'maori' in the accepted legal/official realm?
A person who is full, half, 1/4, 1/8, 1/16, 1/32, 1/64, 1/128, 1/256 can be identified as being 'maori', thus in truth, there may have been quite a large number of generations pass, since there was any maori blood injected into the bloodline of an offender who is classed as/ identifies as, being a 'maori'.
remember smoke, someone that is 1/4 maori, is probably at least 1/2 european. - so a huge number of offenders that you refer to are actually 'more white than black'.

Its funny, so many people like to complain about how maori get certain benefits in New Zealand - theyll say 'why the fuck is XXXX allowedf to play for the NZ maori rugby team, he's only an eighth maori' or 'how come that kid gets xxxx benefit when (s)he is only 1/32 maori'
But the very same people will jump up and say 'I told you that offender would be a black/maori person' - ignoring the fact that the offender to which they refer is really only 1/128th maori, and a considerably larger part of their heritage is european.

You gotta get some consistency going here smoke, take a deeper look before spouting BS about a persons propensity to violence or crime of any sort based on their ethnicity.

Oh, I should also add that there are different considering factors for different collections of statistics, meaning that there will be a different emphasis on race, and other factors depending on what the statistics are being collected for. the same factors for a NZ census are not the same as those applied to an overview of the prison population - so a prison population comparison to a census is not necessarily an accurate measure.

as above, and for fuck sakes, dont get into the 'true maori' - how do you define a 'true maori'? your definition, min, and that of someone who identifies as being maori will all be different.

Pouring perfume over a poo on your front step doesn't keep your shoes clean either.

[Pussy]

:rofl:... what makes these people do these things. This sort of thing is the fault of society. Prison is not, and never has been a deterrent to those who are willing to commit crime. You either make an example of them by implementing some form of Sharia law or you change your societal model by removing the motive for the crime. It isn't hard. As for the govt growing balls, they can only do so much and the people who really need a set of balls are you and me. If you really want these crimes to stop, the answer is obvious... but it would seem that most of you don't have the balls for it because you need to feel superior to someone else due to your perceived self worth. Until you drop your considerably better than yow attitude fuck all will change. Prison sentencing has always been there and yet things are getting worse. The reason is obvious. Remove that which drives these people and change your perception or STFU.

What a load of shit. It's precisely this softcock "victim mentality" that you display all the bloody time that contributes to pondscum like this.
No wonder your home country is fucked.

[scumdog]

The reason is obvious. Remove that which drives these people and change your perception or STFU.


*So you don't want any of us who have material wealth to have any?

Like the oh so successful communism??:rolleyes:

Listen, there will always haves and have nots.

And those lazy-arse have nots who can't be buggered living the way they are and want stuff will revert to taking it anyway.

THEY are the worst - they want material things - but don't want to make the effort to get them 'properly'.

So they leech off the rest of us.

Sharia law in relation to the above social problem doesn't sound so bad....:shifty::whistle:

*('cos we cause the 'problem'???)

[mashman]

What a load of shit. It's precisely this softcock "victim mentality" that you display all the bloody time that contributes to pondscum like this.
No wonder your home country is fucked.

bwaaaaa ha ha ha haaaaaaaaaa. Roll over and play dead, there's a good boy. Wanna point out the victim mentality in the post, or are you just bumping your gums together again? The people that commit these crimes are cunts, I have no doubt, and it's highly unlikely that it's the first time they've committed a crime to get what they want. To that end the only sensible thing to do is to remove the thing that allows them to do what they want and that drives them to go that bit further in regards to their consideration of those who get in their way.

You need to get back on the cigs :bleh:

[Kickaha]

To that end the only sensible thing to do is to remove the thing that allows them to do what they want
Their life?

[flyingcrocodile46]

bwaaaaa ha ha ha haaaaaaaaaa. Roll over and play dead, there's a good boy. Wanna point out the victim mentality in the post, or are you just bumping your gums together again? The people that commit these crimes are cunts, I have no doubt, and it's highly unlikely that it's the first time they've committed a crime to get what they want. To that end the only sensible thing to do is to remove the thing that allows them to do what they want and that drives them to go that bit further in regards to their consideration of those who get in their way.

You need to get back on the cigs :bleh:



It's called oxygen

[scumdog]

Their life?

Mwahahaha, oh how my sides hurt!:killingme:lol::laugh::rofl:



'must spread rep'

[mashman]

*So you don't want any of us who have material wealth to have any?

Like the oh so successful communism??:rolleyes:

Listen, there will always haves and have nots.

And those lazy-arse have nots who can't be buggered living the way they are and want stuff will revert to taking it anyway.

THEY are the worst - they want material things - but don't want to make the effort to get them 'properly'.

So they leech off the rest of us.

Sharia law in relation to the above social problem doesn't sound so bad....:shifty::whistle:

*('cos we cause the 'problem'???)

:yawn: is that all you've got? Communism? These are not the droids you're looking for :laugh:... I guess ya can't teach old dogs, or cats for that matter :shifty: new tricks after all. If you're happy with chasing these guys, my hat off to ya for doing that, then fine. I'd rather change the way we live to prevent it entirely. Entirely your choice of course :).

[mashman]

Their life?


It's called oxygen

I've always said that I'm comfortable with the return of the death penalty :yes:... however I doubt that that would change a damn thing. Where crims may get away with a threat these days i.e. snitch and I'll kill you, they may as well just kill the person and not have to worry about being identified. Granted that's just 1 angle, but we had the death penalty once and people still stole etc...

[scumdog]

Granted that's just 1 angle, but we had the death penalty once and people still stole etc...

Not after they were killed though...:shifty:

[scumdog]

:yawn: is that all you've got? Communism? These are not the droids you're looking for :laugh:... I guess ya can't teach old dogs, or cats for that matter :shifty: new tricks after all. If you're happy with chasing these guys, my hat off to ya for doing that, then fine. I'd rather change the way we live to prevent it entirely. Entirely your choice of course :).

OK, so now's your chance - how do YOU think we could change the way we live to prevent/end muggings, killings, robberies etc??:wait:

After all, I'm only the 'ambulance at the bottom of the cliff' for our imperfect society.

[tigertim20]

I've always said that I'm comfortable with the return of the death penalty :yes:... however I doubt that that would change a damn thing. Where crims may get away with a threat these days i.e. snitch and I'll kill you, they may as well just kill the person and not have to worry about being identified. Granted that's just 1 angle, but we had the death penalty once and people still stole etc...
Ok, you are so full of bright ideas around how we can end crime in NZ, how about giving us a fully detailed run down on a societal model you would like to implement in NZ - and I dont mean post a few links or mention a few social theories, I mean, give us a well reasoned, properly supported example of what you would change, why you would change it, and how you would implement it, along with evidence to show that these changes would have the desired impact.

Or do you lack the ability to suggest anything more than throw out a few basic social theories with little to no actual evidence that it will change?

[SMOKEU]

FFS aren't you the antagonistic racist little yarpie fuck stain. The irony is astounding

Did you know that 90% of yarpies suck dick and that only 30% of you are proper females?



I'm not racist, I'm a realist. I'm not stupid enough to believe all the politically correct government propoganda that is spewed out to the masses.

[ellipsis]

My question is - what can we do to stop this rot, turn things around or even show solidarity...


...a multitude of ginga's with pointy sticks would be an effective stop gap measure in the interim...

[tigertim20]

I'm not racist, I'm a realist. I'm not stupid enough to believe all the politically correct government propoganda that is spewed out to the masses.

Ooooooooh, so you're an independent thinking intellectual?:killingme

[mashman]

Not after they were killed though...:shifty:

You still gotta catchem first though... aaaaand get them through a bleeding heart system full of doo goody gooders... aaaaaand offer a punishment that's a deterrent :confused:


OK, so now's your chance - how do YOU think we could change the way we live to prevent/end muggings, killings, robberies etc??:wait:

After all, I'm only the 'ambulance at the bottom of the cliff' for our imperfect society.


Ok, you are so full of bright ideas around how we can end crime in NZ, how about giving us a fully detailed run down on a societal model you would like to implement in NZ - and I dont mean post a few links or mention a few social theories, I mean, give us a well reasoned, properly supported example of what you would change, why you would change it, and how you would implement it, along with evidence to show that these changes would have the desired impact.

Or do you lack the ability to suggest anything more than throw out a few basic social theories with little to no actual evidence that it will change?

Once again. Let's take this crime as a for instance. Could it have been prevented. The simple answer is yes. Why did they commit the initial crime? To get money. Someone walks in and decides not to give them the money without a fight, or interrupts them or whatever happened and ends up dead. Simple fact: if there were no money involved the crime wouldn't have happened... pretty safe to say the same thing in regards to every single financial crime that's committed in NZ. Sure the person may well be a "lazy scumbag" (maybe not), but let's say they will be. If the XBox or drugs or booze or cigs or clothes or whatever they needed the money for were free there would be 1 less dead person. There's no getting around that fact. There's no bleeding heart there there young man crap, just a stoned, pissed happy xbxo playing lazy scumbag safely tucked up in doors doing no damage to anyone or anyone's stuff... it removes the "temptation" entirely. With any luck the "lazy scumbag" will OD or kill themselves in any number of ways that won't take someone else out. Where money isn't there as a motivation, then the motives of the person will change by default... maybe for the better.

:rofl:@lack of ability must tout social theory to support argument etc... in fact :killingme ... other than being an absolutely futile pursuit (one size fitting all) some measure of rules and regs will need to be applied and therefore so must some form of social theory or group of theories to allow people to get a handle on what where when why we live the way we do (fuckin hilarious that "one" is required)... It's inevitable Mr Anderson, or at least would be if you decided to remove money from the equation. What form of social convention that takes is anyone's guess. I offer 1 variation of how it could be done... but it most definitely will not happen where money is the motivation and people are the secondary concern.

[Number One]

Bullshit. Honesty isn't a function of wealth or status.


What a load of sanctimonious twaddle.


Could I suggest that this is a socio-economic issue rather than a racial one. Don't rest your case just yet.

You really are a patient man aren't ya? I admire how measured you are in this place. I'd be a terrible mod!

Regarding 'violent criminals' I'm thinking of starting a posse - I DO believe if the people were empowered to do more to proven scumbags at least a few of them would think twice...surely?

They get in the system and it treats them as victims. I do believe they have very likely been or are victims and thats sad. Really its tragic and aside from the obvious and immediate trauma of the actual offense to the victims, there are always innocent other families impacted and shifted - but that's what gets me....we put these people away and in almost every case we let them out, back to do it all again.

Personally after more experiences and observations during my life and times (which isn't even that significant yet at 34) I have come to wonder why we are so quick to terminate animals such as dogs that have attacked (even though we know that many times the dog shouldn't actually be blamed), and we eliminate them pretty quickly for fear of the risk they provide...so why is it that with people - who apparently have much more smarts and so in turn 'apparently' better impulse etc control - we give them a wee rest inside. They are regimented to a state they find comfort purpose and routine in and then we let them out again with their names kept secret. No one knows who they have living next door at times. Victims are silenced because its uncomfortable and everyone waits to see when the next murder, rape, stabbing, pedo will happen and who it is that either hurts them or someone they love.

Assisted euthanasia should be legalized , but then I'm bitter and believe that actually innocent people should be protected from known risks. Especially those that have shown they don't give a shit for others they are in my opinion far more dangerous than a dog who has bitten someone.

As for the bus thing. They wud be opportunistic kids. A bus tin...aim higher kids and now you've killed someone, creeps. Hope they catch them and get some of that excellent rehab we've seen the likes of young Bailey K get...yeah that will learn em! Not.

Rant end. Prolley doesn't make any sense on iPod - small screen getting faster at touch typing and canceling autocorrect but bugger me pain in arse!



Fuckety fuck fuck day
Peace

[Madness]

I'm thinking of starting a posse

It's been done already. http://youtu.be/MnF2XEO64d0

[Number One]

It's been done already. http://youtu.be/MnF2XEO64d0

Yeaaaaaah boi!

Went to school with some of the people in that vid. Hard case as flashback!

Actually I was thinking more Sons of Anarchy...meets pussycat dolls


Lol no I actually wasn't but it sounded funny in my head.
Urgh

[scumdog]

If the XBox or drugs or booze or cigs or clothes or whatever they needed the money for were free there would be 1 less dead person. There's no getting around that fact. There's no bleeding heart there there young man crap, just a stoned, pissed happy xbxo playing lazy scumbag safely tucked up in doors doing no damage to anyone or anyone's stuff... it removes the "temptation" entirely. With any luck the "lazy scumbag" will OD or kill themselves in any number of ways that won't take someone else out. Where money isn't there as a motivation, then the motives of the person will change by default... maybe for the better.



If X-box,cigs etc were free?:confused:

Who would 'pay' for them to made?

And what with?

And why should somebody else take the X-box etc just because they wanted to - and without making any effort to 'earn' them?

And what happens when somebody wants to take something that sombody else alrady has in their possesion?

Take money out of the equation and replace it with goods and nothing's changed.

Spare me days...

[tigertim20]

Once again. Let's take this crime as a for instance. Could it have been prevented. The simple answer is yes. Why did they commit the initial crime? To get money. Someone walks in and decides not to give them the money without a fight, or interrupts them or whatever happened and ends up dead.
WOW!! you're a psychic too? who said their was a refusal to give the money? thats an assumption - making your argument invalid
Simple fact: if there were no money involved the crime wouldn't have happened... Really? this kind of thing happens all the time - someone getting bashed for a cell phone, wallet, credit card, ipod laptop, or their vehicle - the victim doesnt always die, but I doubt killing was the intention of the offender
pretty safe to say the same thing in regards to every single financial crime that's committed in NZ. Sure the person may well be a "lazy scumbag" (maybe not), but let's say they will be. If the XBox or drugs or booze or cigs or clothes or whatever they needed the money for were free there would be 1 less dead person. There's no getting around that fact. There's no bleeding heart there there young man crap, just a stoned, pissed happy xbxo playing lazy scumbag safely tucked up in doors doing no damage to anyone or anyone's stuff... it removes the "temptation" entirely. With any luck the "lazy scumbag" will OD or kill themselves in any number of ways that won't take someone else out. Where money isn't there as a motivation, then the motives of the person will change by default... maybe for the better.
Bullshit. its human nature to want things you see, So you give them an xbox for free, and they will want more, and more and more.
Sooner or later the same person will be walking down the street, and see someone with a nice bicycle, and say, fuck yeah, Id like to have that bike, so they use stand over tactics, and or violence to get it.
there will ALWAYS be haves, and have nots, even if money is removed from the equation, goods are just as desirable.
And if you create a system where everything is free, human greed will have the inevitable result of some people still going out and taking other people's stuff because they WANT more. the only result here, is that the people who used to be 'have nots' have become the 'haves' because they go about taking things by force - and suggesting that we not put up a fight, and hand over our stuff without argument would only exacerbate that fact.
:.

........................................

[mashman]

If X-box,cigs etc were free?:confused:

Context = No money.... ergo free to pick one up off the shelves if there is one available.



Who would 'pay' for them to made?

And what with?


You're right. No one would do anything if they weren't being paid for it.



And why should somebody else take the X-box etc just because they wanted to - and without making any effort to 'earn' them?

And what happens when somebody wants to take something that sombody else alrady has in their possesion?


The same as happens now, especially when they could go to the shop and just get it for free. When I haven't been using things I happily share. I know it's a radical concept, but it could just catch on... as well as negate the need for someone to thieve.



Take money out of the equation and replace it with goods and nothing's changed.

And you can pick those goods up off the shelf for free if you want, so no need to take anything of anyone else i.e. thieve. Is the free thing sinking in yet? or are you still expecting people you know absolutely nothing about to earn the right to have stuff? and where do you draw the line as to how much they have earned before they deserve something. Such an archaic attitude.



Spare me days...

Tell me bout it.

[tigertim20]

Context = No money.... ergo free to pick one up off the shelves if there is one available.



You're right. No one would do anything if they weren't being paid for it.



The same as happens now, especially when they could go to the shop and just get it for free. When I haven't been using things I happily share. I know it's a radical concept, but it could just catch on... as well as negate the need for someone to thieve.



And you can pick those goods up off the shelf for free if you want, so no need to take anything of anyone else i.e. thieve. Is the free thing sinking in yet? or are you still expecting people you know absolutely nothing about to earn the right to have stuff? and where do you draw the line as to how much they have earned before they deserve something. Such an archaic attitude.



Tell me bout it.
so if everything is is free, who makes all this stuff?
would you spend 16 hours a day designing an xbox, or a game, or filming a movie, when everything is free, and some cunt who sits at home and smokes weed all day is entitled to everythig you are?
fuck no.

competition is a necessary part of human society, we need it to thrive and proceed forwards - what you are suggesting is a return to the stone age, or even earlier.

take your 'what ifs' and fuck off until you have a solution that might actually have a chance at working, without destroying civilisation as we know it

[SMOKEU]

Ooooooooh, so you're an independent thinking intellectual?:killingme

I don't need the government to tell me what to think or do.

[scumdog]

Context = No money.... ergo free to pick one up off the shelves if there is one available.



You're right. No one would do anything if they weren't being paid for it.



The same as happens now, especially when they could go to the shop and just get it for free. When I haven't been using things I happily share. I know it's a radical concept, but it could just catch on... as well as negate the need for someone to thieve.



And you can pick those goods up off the shelf for free if you want, so no need to take anything of anyone else i.e. thieve. Is the free thing sinking in yet? or are you still expecting people you know absolutely nothing about to earn the right to have stuff? and where do you draw the line as to how much they have earned before they deserve something. Such an archaic attitude.



Tell me bout it.

The chain of people involved in making and getting to the shelves on say an X-box is massive, you expect all these people to get the X-box into lazy-arses hands for free?

Right from the designer to the store-keepers help that fills the shelves?

"Tell 'im 'es dreamin"...

[scumdog]

I don't need the government to tell me what to think or do.

So who DOES tell you what to think or do?:confused:

[FJRider]

I don't need the government to tell me what to think or do.

I'm guessing ... but as you seem to post things without thinking ... having anybody to tell you what to think would be pointless.

As for being told what to do ... stay safe. Don't do anything ...

[Madness]

So who DOES tell you what to think or do?:confused:

My money's on this guy.


http://newzeelend.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/kyle-chapman.jpg?w=300&h=360

[mashman]

WOW!! you're a psychic too? who said their was a refusal to give the money? thats an assumption - making your argument invalid


bwaaaa ha ha ha haaaaaa... I also made another assumption that they were interrupted and also said "or whatever happened". Is that the best you have to invalidate the argument? Hell that was feeble.



Really? this kind of thing happens all the time - someone getting bashed for a cell phone, wallet, credit card, ipod laptop, or their vehicle - the victim doesnt always die, but I doubt killing was the intention of the offender


Again, I never said the killing was intentional. I can see the bottom of the barrel, want me to wave as it's a long way down there? And what do they do with the cell phone, wallets, credit cards, iopds, laptops, motorcycles etc...? sell them for MONEY? Nooooo, say it ain't so.



Bullshit. its human nature to want things you see, So you give them an xbox for free, and they will want more, and more and more.
Sooner or later the same person will be walking down the street, and see someone with a nice bicycle, and say, fuck yeah, Id like to have that bike, so they use stand over tactics, and or violence to get it.
there will ALWAYS be haves, and have nots, even if money is removed from the equation, goods are just as desirable.
And if you create a system where everything is free, human greed will have the inevitable result of some people still going out and taking other people's stuff because they WANT more. the only result here, is that the people who used to be 'have nots' have become the 'haves' because they go about taking things by force - and suggesting that we not put up a fight, and hand over our stuff without argument would only exacerbate that fact.

Oh dear, you pulled out the human nature card. It's not human nature for everyone, so your argument is invalid! Why would they want more if all they want is an xbox? You're tarriong an awful lot of people with your brush there and I know for a FACT that not everyone wants more more more.
There will always be haves and have nots and people will always want stuff and some go out of their way to do anything to gt it. Make it free and they'll, they'll, oh good lord they'll have to go to the shop and get themselves one without bashing anyone over the head to get what they want. Not everyone just wants stuff... and if you believe that I have a nice bridge that I'd like to lease you. I'm surprised advertising and marketing hasn't been banned because it encourages people to want and need stuff.

Human nature is that we react to a set of circumstances in any number of ways. There is no thick or fast rule that lumps us all as crims or saints, yet it would seem that people like yourself can't help but believe that. I'm not saying that greed doesn't exist, but it certainly isn't a given as most kids aren't greedy and happily take no for an answer. Adults are another thing entirely. Greed is learned, not innate.

[Number One]

Hey Mashman wtf are you on about? How's this free thing sposed to work?? Are you suggesting this for serial or having a rant like I was?

[blue rider]

some ideas from the way that used to be and the way they are other places.


i added a picture of sharia law just because.

[mashman]

so if everything is is free, who makes all this stuff?
would you spend 16 hours a day designing an xbox, or a game, or filming a movie, when everything is free, and some cunt who sits at home and smokes weed all day is entitled to everythig you are?
fuck no.

competition is a necessary part of human society, we need it to thrive and proceed forwards - what you are suggesting is a return to the stone age, or even earlier.

take your 'what ifs' and fuck off until you have a solution that might actually have a chance at working, without destroying civilisation as we know it

If we want cool toys, someone is gonna have to make them... who knows, some people may actually do the job they do because they enjoy it? Your stoner cunt already exists and the govt gives them money, what's the problem with having them exist and not costing you a cent? Seems like an odd position to take to me.

Competition won't just stop :facepalm:... quite the opposite in fact. Collaboration is what drives us, not just competition. 3 pharma companies all working towards a cur for cancer... all there or there abouts, but not quite. Wonder if a competitor has the key to either of the other two's solutions. You'll never know until they collaborate. The current system stifles true competition, innovation and us moving forwards at break neck speed. bwaaaa ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaa@back to the stone age. Why would we want to go back to where your ideas obviously come from :bleh:

Try thinking about it ya dumb neanderthal lazy fuck.

[tigertim20]

So who DOES tell you what to think or do?:confused:
simple, he doesnt think!!!

My money's on this guy.


you must spread

dibble dribble dribble

Do you have a degree in ignorance or something?

[mashman]

Hey Mashman wtf are you on about? How's this free thing sposed to work?? Are you suggesting this for serial or having a rant like I was?

Serial? Can you see the link in my sig? Yes I'm serial :yes:

[mashman]

The chain of people involved in making and getting to the shelves on say an X-box is massive, you expect all these people to get the X-box into lazy-arses hands for free?

Right from the designer to the store-keepers help that fills the shelves?

"Tell 'im 'es dreamin"...

Fair enough. Let's just leave the criminals to their own devices (pun intended)... and to fuck with who they "damage" along the way. These people will exist in any system that's implemented. Although one system offers a way to keep innocent people from being hurt.

[Bassmatt]

I don't need the government to tell me what to think or do.

Aren't you at University? Owned by the Govt.

[mashman]

Do you have a degree in ignorance or something?

Is that what they call being open minded about a solution is these days? Still one step up from being a dumb fuck

[Crasherfromwayback]

FFS aren't you the antagonistic racist little yarpie fuck stain. The irony is astounding

Did you know that 90% of yarpies suck dick and that only 30% of you are proper females?

.

Think you forgot to mention that something like 1 in 4 admit to having either raped a woman or forced her into some sort of sexual act.

Luckily the only thing stopping this soft cock raping is that. Softness. And a preference for goats.

http://www.rape.co.za/index2.php?do_pdf=1&id=875&option=com_content

[scumdog]

I believe that (allegedly at this stage) the bus driver did not die as a result of his injuries...

[Crasherfromwayback]

I believe that (allegedly at thsi stage) the bus driver did not die as a result of his injuries...

Saw something along those lines on Stuff. Wasn't quite sure what they were saying/meaning.

[scott411]

i see they have arrested poeple for the theft,

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10802252

[ducatilover]

I'm not racist, I'm a realist. I'm not stupid enough to believe all the politically correct government propoganda that is spewed out to the masses.

But aren't the prison/race stats government supplied?
You're an interesting fellow

[tigertim20]

But aren't the prison/race stats government supplied?
You're an interesting fellow

you must spread . . .

[Paul in NZ]

i see they have arrested poeple for the theft,

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10802252

I'm not sure whats worse - assaulting him or walking off and leaving him (assuming they did that)

I dunno - still a shitty thing.

[oneofsix]

I'm not sure whats worse - assaulting him or walking off and leaving him (assuming they did that)

I dunno - still a shitty thing.

This is getting more and more confusing, It is starting to lean towards the thieves not even knowing the bus driver was there, or perhaps he wasn't when they took the cash box.
From http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/hutt-valley/6822587/Arrests-for-theft-after-bus-driver-dies

Now no evidence of assault;
"Initial reports said Mr Curry was attacked, but police said yesterday there was no evidence of an assault and the cause of his death would not be known until they had further pathology results."

Did they even see him?
"Acting Wellington district crime services manager, Detective Inspector Darrin Thomson, said the cash box was recovered and the four were arrested.

He could not say whether the young men had seen Mr Curry. "

Cash boxes being stolen isn't unusual and doesn't seem to have to involve contact with the driver, one wonders if they are left in the buses overnight?
"(Drivers) talked of previous cases of cash boxes being stolen."

I have wondered from the start if Mr Curry suffered a stroke or heart attack, hitting his head as he fell and the cash box being stolen was a separate event and an opportunist crime rather than a sinister attack.

Now the police have raised the possibility that the thieves may not have even seen the poor guy. Them turning themselves in seems to imply they thought it better to go down for the theft so they could clear themselves of being involved with the death.

[Paul in NZ]

Curses - I might have to tone down my rigious indignation and extinquish my burning torch... I hope Mitre 10 will take the pitchforks back? (no worries if they don't, I suspect another outrage will be along any moment...)

[unstuck]

Nah, fuck em. They are still thieving scum and should be severely thrashed and de fingered, maybe just leave 1 finger so they can pick their noses but not play x-box.:Punk:

[oneofsix]

By all means thrash them, just do it for the correct crime so they can't get all :crybaby: and indigent about being trashed for something they didn't do.

Still got to feel sympathy for the bus drivers family and co workers. Perhaps the crime in his case is the company's, why was he in the yard alone? Or am I being too protective?

[unstuck]

Still got to feel sympathy for the bus drivers family and co workers. Perhaps the crime in his case is the company's, why was he in the yard alone? Or am I being too protective?

Quite a problem apparently, most of these yards have no cctv or security of any type, maybe now something will change for the better for these guys that have to work in these types of situations.

[Asher]

Seriously? Life is so dangerous now that we need security everywhere we go? I thought this was a motorbike forum FFS

[oneofsix]

Seriously? Life is so dangerous now that we need security everywhere we go? I thought this was a motorbike forum FFS

security might be taking it a bit far and is generally useless for these sorts of events anyhow. But what's wrong with the old idea of have two or three workers present at the same time when its dark and there is known cash stealing going on?

As for it being a motorbike forum I guess that is why it is in general rant and rave and often general stuff loops back to affect us anyhow, like societies attitudes and stuff.

[Maha]

Seriously? Life is so dangerous now that we need security everywhere we go? I thought this was a motorbike forum FFS

This is the Rant and Rave section where it's ''Talk about any non-motorbike stuff here''. :corn:

[Asher]

Yes but its still a motorbike forum.
My point was the risks we take on a daily basis is so much higher than ever getting bashed in a work yard.
It doesnt actually say how many times cash boxes have been taken or if there have ever been assaults in the yard.

[flyingcrocodile46]

You're an interesting fellow

I think 'rabid' is the term.:yes: Or at least one of them. :laugh: