Copyright "theft" is the worst thing on the planet!

[HenryDorsetCase]

It must be because:


So in a nutshell, RIAA wants LimeWire to pay more money in damages for copyright infringement than there is in the entire world. Yeah, right

Words cannot express how retarded this is.

instead of embracing the technology, monetising it, and finding ways to make the artists they supposedly represent more wealthy, the RIAA try to make criminals of their customers, and now take more money than there is off one company.

Un-vucking-believable.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/digital-living/6958585/RIAA-wants-72-trillion-from-LimeWire

[Asher]

Hahaha are the smartass lawyers/accountants who came up with that number working for a percentage of the winnings?

[Brian d marge]

The great case of tooks court , Jarndyce v Jarndyce ,

It keeps people employed
Stephen

[bogan]

lol, you have to wonder how companies survive when they see their customers as the enemy!

Guess it'll get a bit like 'big' gaming, all their anti-piracy crap simply makes for a poorer experience without netting them more money.

[Paul in NZ]

Sigh - just wait until TPP comes along.

Apparently American business is not happy and wants us ALL to pay them for everything and if we won't they will jolly well change our laws to make sure we do....

[Scuba_Steve]

Hahaha are the smartass lawyers/accountants who came up with that number working for a percentage of the winnings?

Don't know bout you, but this pops into my head. Reckon he must be the head of the RIAA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1z-AxgueBRk


But good news, they're in luck (& if I was limewire this is exactly what I'd give them too)

http://a4.ec-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/145/1731ecd4a275446cbdbff3ec3fed8541/l.jpg

[EJK]

Poor limewire.... I'll chip in $1000 via Internet. Here.

<img width="400" src="http://hundreddollarbill.info/one-hundred-100-dollar-bill.jpg" />
<img width="400" src="http://hundreddollarbill.info/one-hundred-100-dollar-bill.jpg" />
<img width="400" src="http://hundreddollarbill.info/one-hundred-100-dollar-bill.jpg" />
<img width="400" src="http://hundreddollarbill.info/one-hundred-100-dollar-bill.jpg" />
<img width="400" src="http://hundreddollarbill.info/one-hundred-100-dollar-bill.jpg" />
<img width="400" src="http://hundreddollarbill.info/one-hundred-100-dollar-bill.jpg" />
<img width="400" src="http://hundreddollarbill.info/one-hundred-100-dollar-bill.jpg" />
<img width="400" src="http://hundreddollarbill.info/one-hundred-100-dollar-bill.jpg" />
<img width="400" src="http://hundreddollarbill.info/one-hundred-100-dollar-bill.jpg" />
<img width="400" src="http://hundreddollarbill.info/one-hundred-100-dollar-bill.jpg" />

[Swoop]

Poor limewire.... I'll chip in $1000 via Internet. Here.
All the serial numbers on those notes are the same.

US Treasury will be contacting you shortly regarding forgery of US currency. Do you have a good lawyer?

[paturoa]

Sure the amount is crazy, but that doesn't forgive the "theft" in the first place.

[EJK]

All the serial numbers on those notes are the same.

US Treasury will be contacting you shortly regarding forgery of US currency. Do you have a good lawyer?

Where can I download a good lawyer?

[mashman]

Wonder if we'll ever get to see Megabox? Destroy all competition (http://techcrunch.com/2012/01/24/was-megaupload-targeted-because-of-its-upcoming-megabox-digital-jukebox-service/)?

[madbikeboy]

A little while ago I stayed with friends in a gated community north of Los Angeles. This gated community was home to Jennifer Lopez (who I wish I was special friends with) and Britney Spears (who I'm glad I'm not friends with). Anyhow, I find it hard to reconcile the "theft" of intellectual property and how hard it's hitting the recording industry when you see how they live. I don't advocate stealing, but FFS, I'm hardly going to shed a tear for poor record execs having to keep their Range Rovers for an extra six months before upgrading...

I sound a bit anti-rich. Well, I guess I am. LOL!

[gammaguy]

A little while ago I stayed with friends in a gated community north of Los Angeles. This gated community was home to Jennifer Lopez (who I wish I was special friends with) and Britney Spears (who I'm glad I'm not friends with). Anyhow, I find it hard to reconcile the "theft" of intellectual property and how hard it's hitting the recording industry when you see how they live. I don't advocate stealing, but FFS, I'm hardly going to shed a tear for poor record execs having to keep their Range Rovers for an extra six months before upgrading...

I sound a bit anti-rich. Well, I guess I am. LOL!

hope you didnt use megaupload then,or you will make one fat german a little bit richer instead.

[Winston001]

lol, you have to wonder how companies survive when they see their customers as the enemy!


But people like my teenage kid's friends who download music and movies are not customers. They never buy CDs and DVDs. They simply do not pay for anything and they are genuinely puzzled at the suggestion they should.

If that is common - and I believe it is - then the producers of music and film have a real problem.

[Swoop]

Where can I download a good lawyer?
263931263930[

[SimJen]

hope you didnt use megaupload then,or you will make one fat german a little bit richer instead.

most who used megaupload for downloading didn't pay for the service!

[SS90]

But people like my teenage kid's friends who download music and movies are not customers. They never buy CDs and DVDs. They simply do not pay for anything and they are genuinely puzzled at the suggestion they should.

If that is common - and I believe it is - then the producers of music and film have a real problem.
Thats so correct.

I know countless people that have unbelievable hours of music on their hard drives, and I am very confident thar they have never paid for one minute of it, and as it has been going on for so long, people as you say are agasp that they should be.

Bad examples from parents in my opinion, however, the record companies need to seriously reduce the cost before anything changes.

[Tigadee]

most who used megaupload for downloading didn't pay for the service!

I don't get it then... How did the fat German bloke get so rich?


however, the record companies need to seriously reduce the cost before anything changes.

Very true. When there are thousands of recording artists out there, why is it that albums are so expensive? By right, competition and a huge selection of artists/record companies out there should drive down prices. And there they are so proud and trumpeting when an album reaches platinum after selling millions of records, blah, blah, blah...

I expect my music to be free forever if the RIAA ever gets that amount or anywhere near the billions awarded!

[nosebleed]

It must be because:



Words cannot express how retarded this is.

instead of embracing the technology, monetising it, and finding ways to make the artists they supposedly represent more wealthy, the RIAA try to make criminals of their customers, and now take more money than there is off one company.

Un-vucking-believable.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/digital-living/6958585/RIAA-wants-72-trillion-from-LimeWire

Funnily enough I caught the arse-end of a 60 Minutes the other night and McRoberts was doing one of his "catching up on a previous story" pieces.

60 Minutes 31 July 2011
"He is the only Kiwi on the FBI’s most wanted list yet it was 60 Minutes who tracked him down in the Middle East last year. Now he is back in New Zealand defrauding a whole new group of gullible victims.

For eight years New Zealand's most prolific fraudster, Wayne Davidson led the FBI on a chase around the world. 60 Minutes who found him living in Dubai where he was arrested and sent to jail. But as reporter Sarah Hall confronts Davidson again, this time here in New Zealand once again inflicting misery and loss on his targets."

The followup was that Davidson had once again returned, and still the FBI had not arrested him.

Of course all we have to do is wait till he downloads a Bieber track, then there'll be a full-scale mansion raid on this guy.

[sil3nt]

I don't get it then... How did the fat German bloke get so rich?His site was loaded with advertising. You get a link to a file hosted on megaupload and when you click download you have to wait 30 seconds or so - to keep you looking at ads for longer and to be just annoying enough that you might pay for a premium account to remove the wait time. Then when you do download you downloaded speed is limited on a free account.

Most of the money will come from advertising. Millions of people would use the website daily which would have pulled in millions of dollars each month.

[SMOKEU]

I don't understand the whole anti piracy movement. It's so easy to get away with, and it's a victimless crime, so why not?

[Scuba_Steve]

I don't understand the whole anti piracy movement. It's so easy to get away with, and it's a victimless crime, so why not?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALZZx1xmAzg

[Winston001]

I know countless people that have unbelievable hours of music on their hard drives...

Bad examples from parents in my opinion, however, the record companies need to seriously reduce the cost before anything changes.




Very true. When there are thousands of recording artists out there, why is it that albums are so expensive?



I agree. I remember when CDs first arrived and took over from cassettes. They were wonderful, no tape hiss, and easy to find individual tracks on. The downside was they cost $35. That was 25 years ago and today they cost $33. Go figure.

I think this horse has bolted though. If the price reduced to $8 our kids still wouldn't pay it. Too late. One cheerful lad I know has a tablet which can't run a CD or DVD. So he and his mates aren't interested unless the stuff is on a t-stick. That's how they share around, none of this old fashioned ripping to discs, so they aren't even starters for buying.

Edit: forgot that they use PS3 XBox etc to play discs.

Teens don't even bother with P2P because they can copy music from Youtube. It's probably not high fidelity but with bud earphones what do they care! My observation is that one or two kids download movies and then pass them around 8-10 friends, the rest aren't interested in downloading.

[HenryDorsetCase]

263930[

BAHAHAHAAHAHAA I've got this on the noticeboard in our office.

[SimJen]

youtube is high quality, if you get your youtube link and paste it into this site: www.keepvid.com it gives you multiple options to download the file from Standard Def - Full HD depending on the quality of the original upload. There is now an option for mp3 download too.
Its a really good way of getting the odd SBK race or music video or whatever.

[Asher]

I agree. I remember when CDs first arrived and took over from cassettes. They were wonderful, no tape hiss, and easy to find individual tracks on. The downside was they cost $35. That was 25 years ago and today they cost $33. Go figure.

I think this horse has bolted though. If the price reduced to $8 our kids still wouldn't pay it. Too late. One cheerful lad I know has a tablet which can't run a CD or DVD. So he and his mates aren't interested unless the stuff is on a t-stick. That's how they share around, none of this old fashioned ripping to discs, so they aren't even starters for buying.

Edit: forgot that they use PS3 XBox etc to play discs.

Teens don't even bother with P2P because they can copy music from Youtube. It's probably not high fidelity but with bud earphones what do they care! My observation is that one or two kids download movies and then pass them around 8-10 friends, the rest aren't interested in downloading.

I think Itunes has gone some way of breaking the cycle. You can buy individual songs rather than the whole albums, its much cheaper than buying a physical good.

That said i dont pay for music, i have almost 200gig of music on my hard drive but the important thing is if i had to pay for it i would simply go without so they are not really loosing out on my money.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Thats so correct.

I know countless people that have unbelievable hours of music on their hard drives, and I am very confident thar they have never paid for one minute of it, and as it has been going on for so long, people as you say are agasp that they should be.

Bad examples from parents in my opinion, however, the record companies need to seriously reduce the cost before anything changes.

The counter argument to that is that recorded music is a loss leader. If you are an emerging artist or a non-mainstream artist then your biggest hurdle is getting people to actually listen to your stuff. So you put it on your myspace and farcebook and you ENCOURAGE people to listen download and share. And then you get a bunch of people come to your gigs and they all pay to get in, plus they buy a T shirt. and so on. (Arctic Monkeys, OK Go! are two examples of this)

Or, if you are an artist who does not tour, or an already established artist, you try and sell addons to the music. I am a fan and I buy a lot of CD's and records, and I will buy stuff I already own if the packaging is cool enough, or the liner notes are worth reading or there are tracks on it I dont have or its the 25th Anniversary special edition (with liner notes and extra tracks in a presentation case).

But it rips my grundies when I am asked to pay $30 for a CD. If I lived in the US that content would have cost me $1.99 per track (or $15NZD month on emusic).

The business model is broken, but the RIAA are not helping to fix it. They're not even trying to help fix it.

With Spotify coming, it will be the same

[bogan]

But people like my teenage kid's friends who download music and movies are not customers. They never buy CDs and DVDs. They simply do not pay for anything and they are genuinely puzzled at the suggestion they should.

If that is common - and I believe it is - then the producers of music and film have a real problem.

You're right, they aren't, but they enjoy the product the company is producing, maybe that company should ask why they are not customers.

With the bulk of music now used as mp3, there is little need for physical distribution, 5 bucks an album is now a lot of profit. And if people want to try before they buy, why not give them a few free play throughs online.

The industry needs to start looking at piracy as the competition, rather than something they can stamp out.

[Paul in NZ]

I think that they are being awfully short sighted here.

The whole ‘album’ or recorded music thing is after all a product of technology. Prior to man having the ability to produce CD’s, tapes, records, wax disks etc there was no recorded music industry. Considered against the history of music it’s a relatively recent construct. Even then – its changed with the technology. 331/3 LP’s mean ‘albums’ and that meant a few good tracks and a lot of fill (usually).

These inventions, coinciding with an increase in disposable income and increasing leisure time for the working and middle classes produced a colossal amount of cash for record companies and artists.

The whole industry needs to pull their heads out of their arses. Those days have gone – blown to dust by technological advances.

What has not changed is the vast amount of money that can be made by the right solution. However being dumb and lazy by rigidly sticking to the past aint gunna cut it any more.

However - I LIKE buying CD’s – I LIKE having them and I hate loading stuff into computers. Trouble is I can buy most everything I need back catalog or used.

[Brian d marge]

Open source linux and , open source software is a live and well and ,,,free as is free , ( well you do have to use it and give feed back or help if you can ) , there are some good open source movies ,,aniboom?

as for music , again some of the best is ...independent of the main stream!


maybe the business model is broken .....and the oldies are afraid they will lose the precious dollar .... boo hoo

Stephen

[Winston001]

The whole ‘album’ or recorded music thing is after all a product of technology... 331/3 LP’s mean ‘albums’ and that meant a few good tracks and a lot of fill (usually).



Good post Paul. Its probably a signature of age but for me, albums had structural integrity, a gestalt if you will, that made the full album greater than the individual songs. The Led Zeppelin Runes album is a good example, and others such as the Dark Side of the Moon. Aqualung!! Extract one track and it's in a void but as part of a whole 50 - 60 mins, the music can be transcendant.

Now, where are my Yes albums...:shifty:

[Winston001]

But it rips my grundies when I am asked to pay $30 for a CD. If I lived in the US that content would have cost me $1.99 per track (or $15NZD month on emusic).



Er...quite.

Um, did I mention that I'm a former Chair of the Inquisition oops - Standards Committee? And an orrifier of court? Regrettably we regard unlawful acts or indeed incitement to unlawful acts as evidenced by posts above et seq - by a learned brother such as yourself to be a serious breach of the Code.

So if you could kindly advise of the Canterbury Branch box number and perhaps drop off your hard drive, that would be appreciated.

:devil2::devil2:

[pete376403]

Open source linux and , open source software is a live and well and ,,,free as is free , ( well you do have to use it and give feed back or help if you can ) , there are some good open source movies ,,aniboom?

as for music , again some of the best is ...independent of the main stream!


maybe the business model is broken .....and the oldies are afraid they will lose the precious dollar .... boo hoo

Stephen
The old business model was to sell the same thing over and over - a couple of tracks on 45, all of the tracks on the LP, Then they could sell the same stuff again on cassette, then 8 track (not for long), then CDs came along and they could sell you the same stuff over again. Too right they don't want to give that up.

[Winston001]

The counter argument to that is that recorded music is a loss leader....


Yeah but I think it might be the other way around. My understanding which admittedly dates from Led Zeppelin and Pink Floyd tours is that live concerts are not money makers. A few individual concerts make a profit but overall touring is a loser for bands. They do it to promote albums and because the fans expect it.

Black Sabbath have just done a concert in Birmingham - home, 40 years on, and it cost the band money to do it. It was for charity, Tony has cancer, Bill Ward refused to play, and good on them. But it wasn't for the money. In fact Black Sabbath carried the cost of performing which is staggering given the power of this band returning home.

(Wish I was there) :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZKcgqYGNEc

[Asher]

Yeah but I think it might be the other way around. My understanding which admittedly dates from Led Zeppelin and Pink Floyd tours is that live concerts are not money makers. A few individual concerts make a profit but overall touring is a loser for bands. They do it to promote albums and because the fans expect it.

Black Sabbath have just done a concert in Birmingham - home, 40 years on, and it cost the band money to do it. It was for charity, Tony has cancer, Bill Ward refused to play, and good on them. But it wasn't for the money. In fact Black Sabbath carried the cost of performing which is staggering given the power of this band returning home.

(Wish I was there) :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZKcgqYGNEc

Are you sure tours arent profitable?
Fair enough small scale tours for emerging bands but not for bands that can sell out stadiums.

[Headbanger]

Yeah but I think it might be the other way around. My understanding which admittedly dates from Led Zeppelin and Pink Floyd tours is that live concerts are not money makers. A few individual concerts make a profit but overall touring is a loser for bands. They do it to promote albums and because the fans expect it.

Black Sabbath have just done a concert in Birmingham - home, 40 years on, and it cost the band money to do it. It was for charity, Tony has cancer, Bill Ward refused to play, and good on them. But it wasn't for the money. In fact Black Sabbath carried the cost of performing which is staggering given the power of this band returning home.

(Wish I was there) :D



They have said that there was no personal profit in it, costs were covered but they had the expense of paying for the logistics similar to a full tour (pppfffttt) for a one off concert.

Indirectly the exposure will come back to them them in the form of money many many times over.

Either way, its all just spin and bullshit. No one needs to know the business sides of things, None of them are going to be honest, and none of them would be involved if it weren't for the payoff.

Personally, I wish they wouldn't.

Sabbath is what is was, and by losing bill and bringing in ozzy they only weaken the legend they forged.

The Heaven and Hell shows had more legitimacy.

[gammaguy]

most who used megaupload for downloading didn't pay for the service!

if thats the case please explain where he got his money

did he pay for his super size me lifestyle with a downloaded credit card?

[Winston001]

Are you sure tours arent profitable?
Fair enough small scale tours for emerging bands but not for bands that can sell out stadiums.

Yeah sorta. What happens is bands do tours of say 30 venues but we only hear about the big ones. The smaller concerts which cost just as much don't get mentioned because they are irrelevant and do not add to a bands mystique.

Basically, musicians make their money selling records. If its downloaded for free - they miss out. Check out what Metallica have to say - they hate free downloads.


They have said that there was no personal profit in it, costs were covered but they had the expense of paying for the logistics similar to a full tour (pppfffttt) for a one off concert.

Indirectly the exposure will come back to them them in the form of money many many times over.

Either way, its all just spin and bullshit. No one needs to know the business sides of things, None of them are going to be honest, and none of them would be involved if it weren't for the payoff.

Personally, I wish they wouldn't.

Sabbath is what is was, and by losing bill and bringing in ozzy they only weaken the legend they forged.

The Heaven and Hell shows had more legitimacy.


LOL I shoulda known you'd jump in. :D Ok ok so Tony, Geezer, and Ozzie don't need the money anymore. We both know that. So why bother doing the Birmingham concert at all? Particularly as Bill wasn't being helpful. I think the guys simply wanted to go back home and rock with their core. Money wasn't and isn't an issue. Yes there will probably be an album released but that reinforces my point - live concerts exist only to promote CD/records.

A rock concert is a fargin expensive thing to organise. I'm sure Chris Knox could chime in here with some reality. He is and was always anti-establishment.

[Winston001]

FYI from a quick google it looks like the only bands which consistently make money from touring are U2, Metallica, and the Rolling Stones. Presumably Lady Gaga and others do well too but mostly bands do it for the exposure and ego. Fair enough too.

[Headbanger]

FYI from a quick google it looks like the only bands which consistently make money from touring are U2, Metallica, and the Rolling Stones. Presumably Lady Gaga and others do well too but mostly bands do it for the exposure and ego. Fair enough too.

I'd hate to suggest that Google won't be the place to see the state of a bands finances, However if a tour isn't making money it grinds to a halt. Bands continue to tour because that generally is the only means they have to earn a living, and the only thing that re-unites old bands is the money to be made.

And record sales?

pffffttt.

That cash cow is long dead, When a band like Accept release an album that is loved world wide, only sells 16 000 copies, yet they tour the world and spend an entire summer doing the festival tours then you can see where there money is coming from.

If you read Vince Neils book ( I suggest you don't its rubbish) he does cover the relationship between the record release cycle and touring. His management wanted albums not for sales but just as a platform to brand his never ending (and truthfully loss making.....hence his re-uniting with the cash cow) tours.

[Headbanger]

LOL I shoulda known you'd jump in. :D Ok ok so Tony, Geezer, and Ozzie don't need the money anymore. We both know that.

I know nothing of the sort.

I could assume Ozzy is loaded, No idea about the rest.

Have you read Iommi's book by any chance?

[HenryDorsetCase]

I'd hate to suggest that Google won't be the place to see the state of a bands finances, However if a tour isn't making money it grinds to a halt. Bands continue to tour because that generally is the only means they have to earn a living, and the only thing that re-unites old bands is the money to be made.

And record sales?

pffffttt.

That cash cow is long dead, When a band like Accept release an album that is loved world wide, only sells 16 000 copies, yet they tour the world and spend an entire summer doing the festival tours then you can see where there money is coming from.

If you read Vince Neils book ( I suggest you don't its rubbish) he does cover the relationship between the record release cycle and touring. His management wanted albums not for sales but just as a platform to brand his never ending (and truthfully loss making.....hence his re-uniting with the cash cow) tours. Old paradigm though: 80's.

Blindspott is the local example: they were big here, and they played some shows in South East Asia where they had not sold more than 5000 CD's. They sold out a 30000 seat stadium two nights running because their music was heavily downloaded and shared.

Focusing on the huge acts (Madonnasaur, U2, Stones, whatever) is a mistake too: most rock bands are the equivalent of a small business (they're the equivalent of Apple or Microsoft): so, they are providing employment and a middle class lifestyle for the band members and the road crew. My favourite, Drive By Truckers, are at this stage: rabid fanbase, sell out midsize venues, great online and merch presence, and realistic record label support.

Dont forget, most musicians are constitutionally unsuited for other employment. So you get Motorhead still touring, and Sabbath and whatnot. (they suck after 1979 when Ozzy was kicked out). Technical Ecstacy is the best classic Sabs album. There I said it.

Oh, and for the record (see what I did there) I dont download music for free. TV shows all day every day. Dont bother with films either.

[Scuba_Steve]

FYI from a quick google it looks like the only bands which consistently make money from touring are U2, Metallica, and the Rolling Stones. Presumably Lady Gaga and others do well too but mostly bands do it for the exposure and ego. Fair enough too.

Thats because U2, Metallica, Rolling stones etc are from the period when physical media was the advertising to get you to the concert.
Lady Gaga & other newer "artists" are studio manufactured, probably couldn't do live due to high dependance on electronic assistance, and have come about after record companies changed their model in the 90's & worked out they can make moneys from physical media without all the high costs of setting up a concert i.e. higher margins.

[Headbanger]

Dont forget, most musicians are constitutionally unsuited for other employment. So you get Motorhead still touring, and Sabbath and whatnot. (they suck after 1979 when Ozzy was kicked out). Technical Ecstasy is the best classic Sabs album. There I said it.

.

You are insane, Heaven and Hell is one the best albums ever made, by any band, ever, Mob Rules has huge levels of Awesomeness, Born Again is killer, and De-Huminizer is a stunner.

Technical Ecstasy is a miserable album.

[bogan]

FYI from a quick google it looks like the only bands which consistently make money from touring are U2, Metallica, and the Rolling Stones. Presumably Lady Gaga and others do well too but mostly bands do it for the exposure and ego. Fair enough too.

Pretty sure disturbed has said they make more money of touring than albums. Couldn't find the quote, but here's something interesting from their lead singer, 9 years ago http://legacy.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=13496

[Winston001]

...okay. Maybe concerts are more successful than I had believed. I apologise and withdraw. :doh:

[Asher]

I found this quite interesting:
http://api.ning.com/files/BogY32b8Oe9Gr7AppWMoaEm3TBj7ToPKU6DxzUI3VzjoTieTmU lw13bW*N*ON6TL3knD5A9DbRoAWlthInNKWvKrjS9TLZl0/IllusionofChoice.jpg

[Scuba_Steve]

I found this quite interesting:
http://api.ning.com/files/BogY32b8Oe9Gr7AppWMoaEm3TBj7ToPKU6DxzUI3VzjoTieTmU lw13bW*N*ON6TL3knD5A9DbRoAWlthInNKWvKrjS9TLZl0/IllusionofChoice.jpg

Keeping with that line, seen KoRn's "bean spilling" of the Music industry???

*If your loco & don't like KoRn's awesomeness or your in the office, you can mute it. All the facts are in text

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQCR21ZNv24

[Headbanger]

But....They weren't complaining about their situation (ok, they have always been weak whiny bitches) when they were making the big coin and enjoying the career that comes from major label support and extensive radio play.

Korn are a pack of cockheads, They have only ever made shit worthless music and that effort is no better.

Write some lyrics dick heads, write some music, make something real, and then you might have a career rather then just being bitter that the fad you were riding has finished.

[HenryDorsetCase]

But....They weren't complaining about their situation (ok, they have always been weak whiny bitches) when they were making the big coin and enjoying the career that comes from major label support and extensive radio play.

Korn are a pack of cockheads, They have only ever made shit worthless music and that effort is no better.

Write some lyrics dick heads, write some music, make something real, and then you might have a career rather then just being bitter that the fad you were riding has finished.

But what do you really think?


(I agree entirely: Korn suck

[haydes55]

A little while ago I stayed with friends in a gated community north of Los Angeles. This gated community was home to Jennifer Lopez (who I wish I was special friends with) and Britney Spears (who I'm glad I'm not friends with). Anyhow, I find it hard to reconcile the "theft" of intellectual property and how hard it's hitting the recording industry when you see how they live. I don't advocate stealing, but FFS, I'm hardly going to shed a tear for poor record execs having to keep their Range Rovers for an extra six months before upgrading...

I sound a bit anti-rich. Well, I guess I am. LOL!

Exactly right man.

Same reason I don't donate to the salvation army. The sallies are "Christians helping" well then Christians can pay to help and they can advertise with their own money. The church is one of the wealthiest organisations in the world and they beg us for money to help them help the less fortunate and give Christians the good name. I have spent several days volunteering at a Christian food bank before and will happily empty my wallet of spare change for any other organisation that isn't backed by one of the wealthiest organisations in the world.

[Winston001]

...and Sabbath and whatnot. (they suck after 1979 when Ozzy was kicked out). Technical Ecstacy is the best classic Sabs album. There I said it.

.


You are insane, Heaven and Hell is one the best albums ever made, by any band, ever, Mob Rules has huge levels of Awesomeness, Born Again is killer, and De-Huminizer is a stunner.

Technical Ecstasy is a miserable album.

Youse guys are just weird. There. I said it. :devil2:

The first four Sabbath albums all stand as originals of heavy rock. They are one of a piece - a continuum of the genre from its vibrant birth. And the 5th album, Sabbath Bloody Sabbath is a bonus almost equal to the first 4.

To be fair give Led Zeppelin a similar nod for their first 4 albums which are also of a piece.

Which raises the question - any other bands/artists produced 4 extraordinary albums in a row? Pretty rare. Bowie? Neil Young? Yes? Emerson Lake and Palmer did. Metallica? Certainly the Beatles. Youtoo??

[Headbanger]

I could list dozens of bands....

Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, Megadeath, Overkill, Accept, have all had longer runs of classic albums.

[Brian d marge]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/pktOXJr1vOQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


here you go many "free" movies...

this one is a must watch

Stephen

[mashman]

this one is a must watch

Inform your population, keep them informed every step of the way, educate them, remove the money, remove the power... live!

[Winston001]

Mashie you are a good fella your heart is in the right place and you think about stuff. Respect.

I gotta disillusion you though. The idea that money can be abandoned was tried quite a few years ago. Specifically by the hippies in the late 60s - early 70s when they established communes. Tim Shadbolt tells of his commune days when he and others worked on and around the commune then returned to the house at night. Others didn't work cos smoking the weed and acid rock was their thing. But they didn't cook either. Or do anything...

So the activist hippies returned each evening to no food, no laundry, no hygiene, and cold - even the fire had gone out.

It didn't take long for the communes to fall to pieces. Unfortunately money is the simplest means of valuing effort as the hippies discovered. The current system is not perfect but it ain't going away.

[Winston001]

For accuracy, the Pennsylvania Dutch (the Amish, Mennonites, Anabaptists) do not use money and they have prospered for centuries. Peaceful honest and hardworking. On the strength of that, Mash is on an admirable track.

[mashman]

Mashie you are a good fella your heart is in the right place and you think about stuff. Respect.

I gotta disillusion you though. The idea that money can be abandoned was tried quite a few years ago. Specifically by the hippies in the late 60s - early 70s when they established communes. Tim Shadbolt tells of his commune days when he and others worked on and around the commune then returned to the house at night. Others didn't work cos smoking the weed and acid rock was their thing. But they didn't cook either. Or do anything...

So the activist hippies returned each evening to no food, no laundry, no hygiene, and cold - even the fire had gone out.

It didn't take long for the communes to fall to pieces. Unfortunately money is the simplest means of valuing effort as the hippies discovered. The current system is not perfect but it ain't going away.

My head is in the right place, it has next to nothing to do with my heart... I guess you could consider that a bonus.

The illusion is all yours I'm afraid, no disrespect meant, but that attitude is long in the tooth as far as I'm concerned and if that makes me disilliusioned in the eyes of the intelligencia then that really isn't saying much at all. A commune is a drastically different prospect to an entire country that actually sees the benefits of living in such a way and unless the whole country is involved in the discussion and it is decided by those with a bias or seven, out of date backwards thinking will rule and people will suffer, needlessly so too. Some may decide that that's a hypocritical position to take, in regards to bias, and that I'm pushing a biased view, yet the common sense that "my" idea offers cannot be matched by the money fraternity... they resort to excuses and labels like communal hippies not being able to make a go of it, therefore fully functioning productive thinking human beings will be incapable of living that way. Apples and Oranges. If you aren't going to offer people the choice, a real valid well thought through democratic choice, because you have relied on "evidence" from 50 years ago to decry the feasibility, then there is no chance, I concede that. Fortunately there are plenty of people in this country and across the globe who believe that it is possible. I've met quite a few, even people I've never met before who understand the concept. The youth of today are ripe for accepting such a change. It would be rude not to offer it to them.

I see a simple way to end poverty, homelessness, hunger etc... and it can't be denied because it has never been tried on a level playing field, only ever labelled as a dangerous societal model. So I deny your disillusion on the grounds that it's very very old thinking and that the discussion hasn't been taken to every man, woman and child in the country. Until that happens, we'll never know. Please feel free to try another tack :shifty:

[Headbanger]

The illusion is all yours I'm afraid,

I see a simple way to end poverty, homelessness, hunger etc.

No, Its definitely you.

I'm not going to pretend the current system is great though it has certainly achieved some stunning results and of course some less then stellar side effects. However I can't see that you even understand what you are against, and have never succeed in explaining what your proposed system is.

Money is just a form for representing worth, it allows work to be valued to be stored and used/traded at a later date,Banning money won't remove the need and advantages of the mechanism, It would just make life harder.

Removing money would cripple all the infrastructure that keeps people alive, They only survivors would be those that worked from sun up to sun down working a piece of dirt, that is until someone larger came along, ate their food, raped their women, bbq'd their cow and their goat, enslaved their children, and beat them to death.

The problem isn't money, The problem is greed. Every system since the dawn of time has been exploited by people for personal gain.

[HenryDorsetCase]

For accuracy, the Pennsylvania Dutch (the Amish, Mennonites, Anabaptists) do not use money and they have prospered for centuries. Peaceful honest and hardworking. On the strength of that, Mash is on an admirable track.

how do they not use money? Sure they're mired in an 18th century lifestyle by choice but surely they don't grow or provide everything they need: I'm not sure theyd have steel foundries or ability to grow cotton, transform it into cloth and dye it for example. Do they barter it with local non members of their faith/lifestyle? (Everything I know about the Amish I learned from KINGPIN by the way)

Or are they like those hypocritical "exclusive bretheren" who don't use computers but just employ people who do (ever bought anything from Pedo 7?)

[HenryDorsetCase]

Youse guys are just weird. There. I said it. :devil2:

The first four Sabbath albums all stand as originals of heavy rock. They are one of a piece - a continuum of the genre from its vibrant birth. And the 5th album, Sabbath Bloody Sabbath is a bonus almost equal to the first 4.

To be fair give Led Zeppelin a similar nod for their first 4 albums which are also of a piece.

Which raises the question - any other bands/artists produced 4 extraordinary albums in a row? Pretty rare. Bowie? Neil Young? Yes? Emerson Lake and Palmer did. Metallica? Certainly the Beatles. Youtoo??

In a non-metal context:

Drive By Truckers: Southern Rock Opera, Decoration Day, The Dirty South, A Blessing and a Curse

Gillian Welch: any four of hers.

Velvet Underground: they only had four albums and ALL of them are essential

Ramones: Ramones, Leave Home, Rocket To Russia, Road To Ruin, End of the Century

Uncle Tupelo: only four albums, all of them essential.

White Stripes: all up to Elephant

Warren Zevon did but not all at once in a run: Excitable Boy in particular

The American Recordings Johnny Cash albums (all five of them).

the first four Siouxsie and the Banshees albums (though in particular the early 80's trio that JOhn McGeoch played guitar on)

The Clash only had 3 in a row: theres a good album in Sandinista trying to get out but its a one LP record, not a triple (what the hell were they thinking? - trying to complete with Yes?)

The Stooges Fun House, Raw Power: though thats only 3 (thats the only three really)

[mashman]

No, Its definitely you.

I'm not going to pretend the current system is great though it has certainly achieved some stunning results and of course some less then stellar side effects. However I can't see that you even understand what you are against, and have never succeed in explaining what your proposed system is.

Money is just a form for representing worth, it allows work to be valued to be stored and used/traded at a later date,Banning money won't remove the need and advantages of the mechanism, It would just make life harder.

Removing money would cripple all the infrastructure that keeps people alive, They only survivors would be those that worked from sun up to sun down working a piece of dirt, that is until someone larger came along, ate their food, raped their women, bbq'd their cow and their goat, enslaved their children, and beat them to death.

The problem isn't money, The problem is greed. Every system since the dawn of time has been exploited by people for personal gain.

It moost definately is not :bleh:

Stunning results? Can you name one? What I am against is people dying/suffering because they don't have enough money and not through want of trying. "My" proposed system removes money and the need for people to die/suffer because of it, without reducing current quality of life. Done.

Utter bullshit. Money is a weapon. Disagree with someone telling you how to run your country and they apply sanctions. Those sanctions attack your exports and by default the money your country uses to grow its economy. Just a form of representing worth? Oh dear, someone has been eating too many might beans :shifty:

Removing money would do the exact opposite. Money didn't always exist and OMG, the human race didn't die out. The chaos you describe already exists in some financial economies today and a lack of money, or accumulating more money, is generally at the heart of it. Example: Christchurch. If there were no money or need for insurance we coulda had 18 months of rebuild by NOW. Instead people are waiting for money to appear before they get stuck in or for insurance companies to underwrite the money being borrowed to rebuild... which is bitterly disappointing given that every resource required to rebuild the city can be sourced in NZ.

take copyright theft for example: why are people protecting "their" IP? Because they're greedy? or to protect their income stream? granted you could say they were one in the same, but they're protecting their income stream which technically has nothing to do with greed, unless they are being greedy. Money money money. There are a small number of truly greedy people v a large number of people who would happily coexist. I'd like to see the 2 systems put to the vote in true democratic fashion... in other words the books of NZ opened up for due diligence and a year of solid advertising explaining "my" system. Tis a damn site easier to explain in person than it is over the internet.

[Headbanger]

Suffering was around a long time before money.

stunning results?

The modern world, the infrastructure that supports it, all our technology, our knowledge, our health care, our education. All made possible by people pooling their resources and engaging the resources of others.








You loony. I still have no idea what your proposed system is, It seems to be, Money bad, ban money, world is good.

Money is a weapon?, ffs, As I have already said, the problem is greed, and its part of the human condition. It breeds jealousy and resentment on multiple levels, Those with money and those that don't have the basic ability to provide for themselves and their families.

[mashman]

Suffering was around a long time before money.

stunning results?

The modern world, the infrastructure that supports it, all our technology, our knowledge, our health care, our education. All made possible by people pooling their resources and engaging the resources of others.

You loony. I still have no idea what your proposed system is, It seems to be, Money bad, ban money, world is good.

Money is a weapon?, ffs, As I have already said, the problem is greed, and its part of the human condition. It breeds jealousy and resentment on multiple levels, Those with money and those that don't have the basic ability to provide for themselves and their families.

True. I would have thought we have moved on since then.

Are you saying that infrastructure, technology, knowledge, healthcare, education etc... wouldn't have existed had there not been money? If so, I'm going to laugh and laugh really really hard.

Ooooooook, see the website in my sig as a start as it explains some things. You'll either grasp the concept or you won't. What could you do with a country full of free resources and free labour? praps what couldn't you do would give easier answers.

And as I already said, the minority are greedy, not the majority... and they are greedy for money. The resources they will murder for are converted into money. Money is a weapon. I'll not touch the have and have nots with a barge pole. If jealousy and resentment were really the case, then the have nots would follow the haves tactics and there would be blood in the streets... but there isn't for some reason. I guess they're just not that jealous or greedy.

[Headbanger]

Ooooooook, see the website in my sig as a start as it explains some things. You'll either grasp the concept or you won't. What could you do with a country full of free resources and free labour? praps what couldn't you do would give easier answers.


:tugger: :weird::weird::weird:

[mashman]

:tugger: :weird::weird::weird:

:rofl: ... I've got a bucket of sand with your name on it... or if you would prefer a tinfoil hat. Achually, you may need both :rolleyes:

[Headbanger]

... I've got a bucket of sand with your name on it... or if you would prefer a tinfoil hat. Achually, you may need both

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. You would have a bucket of sand with my name on it because?

Sadly the website in your sig has zero explanations on it, hence explains nothing, It almost presents something, But whatever it is trying to present is so badly formed that it achieves nothing.

All you have is a small dream,a notion, nothing of substance, and that doesn't give you a platform to mock anyone.

It just makes you look silly.

[mashman]

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. You would have a bucket of sand with my name on it because?

Sadly the website in your sig has zero explanations on it, hence explains nothing, It almost presents something, But whatever it is trying to present is so badly formed that it achieves nothing.

All you have is a small dream,a notion, nothing of substance, and that doesn't give you a platform to mock anyone.

It just makes you look silly.

I'm like Santa... I've got a bucket of sand with everyone's name on it should they wish it.

I see it did its job... you have to fill in the explanations for yourself.

Did you feel like I was mocking you? Ohhhh I'm sorry, there there, it'll be ok, I'm sure you'll get over it.

[Headbanger]

:tugger::tugger::tugger::tugger:

weak.