NSR FXR, the new No45

[richban]

Think it looks fantastic now, except the tailpiece. Make the tail look like the tank.

Nah don't like the tank. Watch this space_________

[gav]

What does the tank weigh? How about a smaller plastic pit bike type tank under a fibreglass/carbon cover?

[richban]

What does the tank weigh? How about a smaller plastic pit bike type tank under a fibreglass/carbon cover?

Yeah tank is not to bad. It is lighter than an FXR tank but still heavy compared to an Ali race tank. Going to make it a little heavier today with some paint if I get a chance.

[Bren_chch]

phwooaarrr... thats sexy!

[satchriossi]

I've got an MC21 frame, swingarm and MC28 tank if anyone's keen? Can hook you up with RVF400 forks modded to go with it and two sets of wheels.

[quallman1234]

I've got an MC21 frame, swingarm and MC28 tank if anyone's keen? Can hook you up with RVF400 forks modded to go with it and two sets of wheels.

Price? hehe.

[TZ350]

I've got an MC21 frame, swingarm and MC28 tank if anyone's keen? Can hook you up with RVF400 forks modded to go with it and two sets of wheels.

And photos please ......

[satchriossi]

Will get the bits photographed this weekend fellas.

[richban]

Well not much to show. Still not painted so no new pics. Been dicking around with the new engine a little but need to get it on the dyno again to setup the ignition / fueling better. I am not expecting any HP gains from the ignitech really apart from any that arrive due to more revs. Looking at 13k limit. So not much more than the 12 and a half is has now but may give 1 more pony before the limiter / gear change indicator. In theory we should be looking at 27 on the motormart dyno that gave the 25 point something it had before it died. The engine is capable of this its just lining up the fueling, intake, exhaust and cams. So it should be all happy for the first round of KOK. Not sure I will be but the bike should be in a happy place.

[richban]

Well not much to show. Still not painted so no new pics. Been dicking around with the new engine a little but need to get it on the dyno again to setup the ignition / fueling better. I am not expecting any HP gains from the ignitech really apart from any that arrive due to more revs. Looking at 13k limit. So not much more than the 12 and a half is has now but may give 1 more pony before the limiter / gear change indicator. In theory we should be looking at 27 on the motormart dyno that gave the 25 point something it had before it died. The engine is capable of this its just lining up the fueling, intake, exhaust and cams. So it should be all happy for the first round of KOK. Not sure I will be but the bike should be in a happy place.

Funny.272266

Ok so yeah the prediction above was bang on but that is only half the story.

So above you can see a massive hole. At first I thought it was needle taper but after eliminating that I remembered the megaphone testing I did ages ago. Same sort of crazy holes showing on the dyno. Turns out Mr yoshimura had a little step down in the muffler. I pulled it all apart and found the packing had massive holes around this step. So after half and hour of hitting welding and riveting I have rescued the ponies from the black hole of reversion. Lesson there. Bolt shinny shit on at your own peril.

It now wants more gas so the first race meeting will be more like a test day but what ever. She will be on song soon enough.

So new perdition is 29 on the motormart dyno and 27 on TZ's

[Sketchy_Racer]

Hey man, I got your txt but damn phone has gone flat, I have a couple of mufflers but doubt they will be much use. The best one I have found so far is a YZF250 muffler from the early 2000's. It's light and has a great sound. I also have a late model CRF250R muffler but it is shit! I've got them bends for ya but im away this weekend, I can come drop them off early this week, sorry I should have dropped them off earlier.

I can also get my hands on a R1, a R6 and a BMW S1000RR muffler which are all very light and look good, don't know how they would perform but I think the R6 one looks good.

[hmurphy]

Yo Glen, I'll buy one of those mufflers off you. My bike is too noisy. Don't want to burst your ear drums when I pass you. That would be inconsiderate.

[richban]

Hey man, I got your txt but damn phone has gone flat, I have a couple of mufflers but doubt they will be much use. The best one I have found so far is a YZF250 muffler from the early 2000's. It's light and has a great sound. I also have a late model CRF250R muffler but it is shit! I've got them bends for ya but im away this weekend, I can come drop them off early this week, sorry I should have dropped them off earlier.

I can also get my hands on a R1, a R6 and a BMW S1000RR muffler which are all very light and look good, don't know how they would perform but I think the R6 one looks good.



Cheers Mate. No worries. I have fixed he problem. I am going to have a go at making one from scratch. That way it can fit the bike nice.

[speedpro]

Coby do mandrel U-bends, tight and regular, and donuts as well. I just bought some off Woolf mufflers here in Auckland. Primo if you are building a system. I got a 32mm OD and 35mm OD bend. The 32mm is 29mm ID and the 35mm is 31.4mm ID so can slip over the 32mm OD with a little lineshing. You should be able to get them in Wellington. I've also had smaller diameters bent for me for not much. I still have some of them under the bench - very useful.

[TZ350]

I've got an MC21 frame, swingarm and wheel.

Thank you Mr Satchriossi for the frame and wheel and your efforts to pack and ship them to me.

[richban]

Coby do mandrel U-bends, tight and regular, and donuts as well. I just bought some off Woolf mufflers here in Auckland. Primo if you are building a system. I got a 32mm OD and 35mm OD bend. The 32mm is 29mm ID and the 35mm is 31.4mm ID so can slip over the 32mm OD with a little lineshing. You should be able to get them in Wellington. I've also had smaller diameters bent for me for not much. I still have some of them under the bench - very useful.


Yeah I had a good supply under the bench till some young crazy bucket builder borrowed them. Super charging. wtf.

[Drew]

Yeah I had a good supply under the bench till some young crazy bucket builder borrowed them. Supercharging, FTW (for the win)Fixed that for ya.

[richban]

Tank tells half the story of the new paint. Some stickers and new seat to come still. FXR guard looks good on the front just needs a tidy up.

[husaberg]

Tank tells half the story of the new paint. Some stickers and new seat to come still. FXR guard looks good on the front just needs a tidy up.

Just need to get your self a Honda motor now and it will all be finished:drool:
Love the louvers .:niceone:
<img src="http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=272298&d=1351310682" width="440px"/>

[richban]

Just need to get your self a Honda motor now and it will all be finished:drool:
Love the louvers .:niceone:
<img src="http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=272298&d=1351310682" width="440px"/>

Honda motor might be nice one day. But I do love the little FXr battler engine. They take the tuning well.

Yeah I did the side of the airbox last night. Bit rough but it is a proto all duck taped together. Final one will be all pretty.

[andrew a]

Looking good Rich.

[husaberg]

Great HP as well BTW. But the exhaust did you ever get around to trying out a reverse cone mega i remember you were going to a while back
One manufactured like of these would sure be be yummy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=FZ8CGGYamuE

[richban]

Great HP as well BTW. But the exhaust did you ever get around to trying out a reverse cone mega i remember you were going to a while back
One manufactured like of these would sure be be yummy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=FZ8CGGYamuE



Yeah made 2 megas. Both shit. Also really hard to make them work and stay under 95db. Hard enogh getting a normal muffler to muffle the thing.

[husaberg]

We were encouraged to use a perforated baffle sheet incerted with an air gap.When the noise first beacame a factor with the classics
with a straight pipe To take the edge of noise with a slit near the end helps also, but we never had to meet 95DB.

The Dunstall silencers were interesting design.internally. This Tyga is cute
http://gearhead-racing.com/Parts/Norton%20Dunstall%20Decibel/Norton%20Dunstall%20Decibel.JPG<img src="http://tyga-performance.com/images/bpfs-0028topleft.jpg" width="326px"/><img src="http://www.jap4performance.com/images/EXSL-0013.jpg" width="309px"/>
Are the noise test static or drive by?
I do remember some dutch students devised a way to have it loud whist under load. but yet quiet for the stationary noise test.
I have a Akrapovnic on the Berg ,be interesting to see whats in it (not much i am guess it it horrendously loud even with the tiny end cap in it.

Then again Ducati must have know a thing or two i guess (huge)twin entry and exit actually most of the singles ran twin pipes from memory
<img src="http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQGIsrRpHi0OZU0JZOS9Kr54B5xt1LMK DO4zY9-B6MWG8PYI9Po&t=1" width="340px"/><img src="http://rpmedia.ask.com/ts?u=/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6b/Carbon_Sub_Frame.jpg/250px-Carbon_Sub_Frame.jpg" width="340px"/>

Still one of the prettiest bikes ever, now what.... nearly 20 year's or so later....
Do BMS still have their one...?

I know not to believe all the hype but from what i understand the FMF bomb header made the pipes quieter as well...
<img src="http://www.procycledepot.com/uimages/p_images/fmf/POWER_BOMB_4.1.jpg" width="340px"/><img src="http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/7255/powerbombdoorsneepm5.jpg" width="340px"/>

[richban]

Noise test was drive by. Mine is fine. One of the more quite bikes of the day.

Mega booms are used in some open wheeler headers as well. Biggest problem with my pipe now is it hits the deck. It sent me into a rather spectacular power slid with smoke and all. I will have a look at the video later.

Well new bike is the best bike I have ridden. Just need to get the rider fit. Last all in race of the day was fast for sure. Love my new bike.

[F5 Dave]

One day,

one very special day,

Husi might post something that he hasn't cut & pasted from the internet.

[husaberg]

One day,

one very special day,

Husi might post something that he hasn't cut & pasted from the internet.

gee hope springs eternal
But really, That optimism may be misplaced Dave.

PS i attach the image with the Http code so no cutting is needed.Just copy ;)
have you seen the inside of a Dunstall silencer ( i have but never thought of taking a picture)

the bomb header as a side effect of its design i believe lowers the DB with a processed called attenuation i assume the Termigoni
could also have used the principal but i doubt they thought of it.
Someone in the industry you work in, could explain attenuation far better than me. Without the net.
The reason i brought it up is there is a large amount of room directly beneath this engine to use both this and absorption, expansion with twin exits either side which could be extremely trick.Wings on top and around could be added also to serve as a 4 stroke diaper.
I would of course never get around to it.Rich would have to do this assuming he wanted to. Not that he needs more hp mid you.

[richban]

Well now the new engine is coming along it is time to think about the next one.

I do like the idea of a plain bearing bottom end and as grumph has mentioned the cbr 600 92/94 rods will work with some crank mods. 45.2mm.

So I surpose some reading and asking of knowledge is required. Oil pressure needs to be raised and crank balance would be critical. But what revs could it pull and last a season? 15? Don't know. Will all the seals be ok with extra oil pressure? Is it worth the bother.

[husaberg]

Ducati supermono, BSA Starfire, Royal Enfield.... thought it was......I like the ducati supermono solution myself. Indycars and nascars make worthwhile gains usng friction and oil control so possibly......
What stoke are you at now with what piston speed. Im am old school FT/Minute

[TZ350]

Well now the new engine is coming along it is time to think about the next one. I do like the idea of a plain bearing bottom end.

Is it worth the bother.

Absolutely .......

[richban]

Ducati supermono, BSA Starfire, Royal Enfield.... thought it was......I like the ducati supermono solution myself. Indycars and nascars make worthwhile gains usng friction and oil control so possibly......
What stoke are you at now with what piston speed. Im am old school FT/Minute

48.8 stroke = 4000fpm. at 12500.

Looks like its possible to run quite large pistons in the FXR so could look at a 69mm piston with stock CBR rod. At 45.2. Can't really put bigger valves in so the ideal combination of stroke, piston size, valve layout / combustion efficiency. Sounds to hard already. I suppose working back in scale from the Moto3 piston size regs might work. Not sure really. But I am allowed to make it rev higher than a moto3 bike. Maybe this is a project for a CBR engine. Anyone want to swap a stock CBR engine for a 20 something hp FXR engine?

[Grumph]

48.8 stroke = 4000fpm. at 12500.

Looks like its possible to run quite large pistons in the FXR so could look at a 69mm piston with stock CBR rod. At 45.2. Can't really put bigger valves in so the ideal combination of stroke, piston size, valve layout / combustion efficiency. Sounds to hard already. I suppose working back in scale from the Moto3 piston size regs might work. Not sure really. But I am allowed to make it rev higher than a moto3 bike. Maybe this is a project for a CBR engine. Anyone want to swap a stock CBR engine for a 20 something hp FXR engine?

Well we've been running our 54.8mm stroke old FZR600 to 14 grand....with race kit rods which look spindly and inadequate alongside CBR600 ones....the thing apparently made just over 100hp at the wheel when first built and since a freshen up it may be making more.

As i've said to bro Kev, 3 cylinders of a Kawa 250 four, weld and destroke, use 20 grand.....

[husaberg]

48.8 stroke = 4000fpm. at 12500.

Looks like its possible to run quite large pistons in the FXR so could look at a 69mm piston with stock CBR rod. At 45.2. Can't really put bigger valves in so the ideal combination of stroke, piston size, valve layout / combustion efficiency. Sounds to hard already. I suppose working back in scale from the Moto3 piston size regs might work. Not sure really. But I am allowed to make it rev higher than a moto3 bike. Maybe this is a project for a CBR engine. Anyone want to swap a stock CBR engine for a 20 something hp FXR engine?

I mentioned the supermono as it has a plain bearing but a non bolted rod. Fitting in the built up rod might require a few more mods the CBR250 the new one i thing has a plain bearing from memory.
Been a while since i seen the 600 stuff no doubt it has been pared down heaps but it is from a smooth firing four that has been designed to be compact what sort of rod lengths are they.

Still got a FZR250 here in bits but the 3 requires an ugly piston when restroked from adequate comp.
The CBR250 4 screamed out to be made a three but those cam gears make destoking problematic plus i think the bore is even larger that the Honda with the kawa the same or bigger again i think?

[richban]

As i've said to bro Kev, 3 cylinders of a Kawa 250 four, weld and destroke, use 20 grand.....

I like the single's. :msn-wink: I would not fancy the extra 20kg of engine to lug around.

[speights_bud]

I'm sure you guys know alot more about useful stroke lengths etc, but from something i did at my old work for a customer was stroke an R6 down to fit into F3, (billet machined crank) and it worked but the result (as i heard through the grapevine) was a stroke so short it made power that was difficult to make use of properly, apparently like a 2-stroke but less usable...

[husaberg]

I like the single's. :msn-wink: I would not fancy the extra 20kg of engine to lug around.

Err why not a 2 stroke then hehe....


I'm sure you guys know alot more about useful stroke lengths etc, but from something i did at my old work for a customer was stroke an R6 down to fit into F3, (billet machined crank) and it worked but the result (as i heard through the grapevine) was a stroke so short it made power that was difficult to make use of properly, apparently like a 2-stroke but less usable...

I think the crank was allegedly like $8000 as well ekkk.
metal sray would be a bucket affordable remedy for a mild destroke with the crank then ground offset like they used to do with the stroke BMC minis

Rich, Grumph as most know the sluggish combustion and resulting poor comp or or horrible shape are the main reasons........but to mention mismatch valve sizes port velocity etc.
But People also forget how little power those 4 cylinders 250 make at actual peak max revs...... they rev sure, but the max power is way way further back down the rev scale.

[richban]

I'm sure you guys know alot more about useful stroke lengths etc, but from something i did at my old work for a customer was stroke an R6 down to fit into F3, (billet machined crank) and it worked but the result (as i heard through the grapevine) was a stroke so short it made power that was difficult to make use of properly, apparently like a 2-stroke but less usable...

That would have been expensive. Thats why I like singles. So simple.

[richban]

Err why not a 2 stroke then hehe....

Only have factory support for 4 stroke engine builds.

[speights_bud]

That would have been expensive. Thats why I like singles. So simple.

Yep it sure was and i don't think we made much $$ on it at all after everything. (prob shouldn't say how much but it was a little less than 10k from memory :rolleyes:)

[richban]

Yep it sure was and i don't think we made much $$ on it at all after everything. (prob shouldn't say how much but it was a little less than 10k from memory :rolleyes:)

Holy fuck what a wast of dosh. Could build a nice super mono race bike for that almost.

[speights_bud]

Holy fuck what a wast of dosh. Could build a nice super mono race bike for that almost.

For sure, but this was supposed to be 'The next big thing' to rival the 600's modded to (Ozzy) 450 Triples that were just being turned out... The designer told him it wouldn't work, and he knows a few things about engines, he built the First Triple Rotor (In NZ at least), Don't know where the bike is now, last i heard Mr Van Boomer had it in his shed but that was a year or two ago now.

[husaberg]

Yep it sure was and i don't think we made much $$ on it at all after everything. (prob shouldn't say how much but it was a little less than 10k from memory :rolleyes:)

Codgy printed how much it was (i think) if it was him it will be on his web site somewhere when he tested it assuming we are talking of the same bike....
the 10 could back been a misquote or the result of a failing memory i will have a looky.

Had a look and it seems i plucked the figure out of thin air whoops sorry. Good to know i are now starting to develop Alzheimer's as well.
http://www.glenwilliams.co.nz/articles-by-gw.html
i assume..............as your post says 10k mine 8k mmmm.... even with the eye roll it was a lot more that the $1600 odd to convert the ozzy engine as quoted still worth a crack i guess.....
i priced a billet somewhere from CHCH for the steel it was scarery actually it might be on another web site about a similar crank.........
maybe it was for the speedway v8 based on the 2 yams or what ever

[richban]

Codgy printed how much it was (i think) if it was him it will be on his web site somewhere when he tested it assuming we are talking of the same bike....
the 10 could back been a misquote or the result of a failing memory i will have a looky.

Had a look and it seems i plucked the figure out of thin air whoops sorry. Good to know i are now starting to develop Alzheimer's as well.
http://www.glenwilliams.co.nz/articles-by-gw.html
i assume..............as your post says 10k mine 8k mmmm.... even with the eye roll it was a lot more that the $1600 odd to convert the ozzy engine as quoted still worth a crack i guess.....
i priced a billet somewhere from CHCH for the steel it was scarery actually it might be on another web site about a similar crank.........
maybe it was for the speedway v8 based on the 2 yams or what ever




Spoz thats the cool thing about F3. So many different combinations of engine and chassis. Just like buckets.

[Yow Ling]

Down here Cams run an open 150cc 2T/ 250 4T class 250s are limited to 2 cyl max thats the rules no sneaky shit put in there to even anything up or fair play bla bla At the moment its mostly buckets and RG150s but should start to grow soon

[speights_bud]

Codgy printed how much it was (i think) if it was him it will be on his web site somewhere when he tested it assuming we are talking of the same bike....
the 10 could back been a misquote or the result of a failing memory i will have a looky.

Had a look and it seems i plucked the figure out of thin air whoops sorry. Good to know i are now starting to develop Alzheimer's as well.
http://www.glenwilliams.co.nz/articles-by-gw.html
i assume..............as your post says 10k mine 8k mmmm.... even with the eye roll it was a lot more that the $1600 odd to convert the ozzy engine as quoted still worth a crack i guess.....
i priced a billet somewhere from CHCH for the steel it was scarery actually it might be on another web site about a similar crank.........
maybe it was for the speedway v8 based on the 2 yams or what ever

The figure i put earlier is only a touch higher than the 'quoted' price i heard tossed around the workshop by the other Machinists i was working with so its ball park anyways.... Plus sounds like he had to add a whole bunch of computer stuff to make it work, first Dyno Run of 67hp as well so although I'm sure there was some improvement its an expensive build, considering he did it in 09' and my SV650 was 66hp when it was built in 03' according to the data sheet it came with...

We did a crank for a Speedway V8 too, it was the first one we did and god knows what that cost to make vs what was charged, a lot of the cost was absorbed as learning how to work with the new 5 Axis Turn mill my old work had just bought....

[Grumph]

The figure i put earlier is only a touch higher than the 'quoted' price i heard tossed around the workshop by the other Machinists i was working with so its ball park anyways.... Plus sounds like he had to add a whole bunch of computer stuff to make it work, first Dyno Run of 67hp as well so although I'm sure there was some improvement its an expensive build, considering he did it in 09' and my SV650 was 66hp when it was built in 03' according to the data sheet it came with...

We did a crank for a Speedway V8 too, it was the first one we did and god knows what that cost to make vs what was charged, a lot of the cost was absorbed as learning how to work with the new 5 Axis Turn mill my old work had just bought....

That shows the necessity of asking not just can you do it ? but have you done it before ?....here in ChCh both Bob Densem and Dick Chapman have made cranks for years. Auto Restorations are good customers for things like Vintage Bugatti cranks. Last time I visited Bob he had just done a batch of cranks for the Cologne Capris...V6 Cosworth.
with all due respect to the outfit you work for, a one man band is a better bet for one off stuff.

I read about that destroked yam and nothing I saw made me think he knew what he was doing.....

[richban]

I read about that destroked yam and nothing I saw made me think he knew what he was doing.....

Can't imagine ever wanting to chuck a heap of toque in the bin.

[speights_bud]

with all due respect to the outfit you work for, a one man band is a better bet for one off stuff.

I read about that destroked yam and nothing I saw made me think he knew what he was doing.....


I absolutely agree with you, this is one of the main reasons i do not work there anymore. The boss started trying to take on seriously expensive to build Helicopter parts etc just because he could and wanted to brag that he made aircraft parts to his mates at the pub... There was Negative margin in them right from the start but you couldn't tell him that because he's an arrogant prick:facepalm:

But like i said earlier the company designer who does know his stuff said yes **We-Can** but it won't perform very well and the customer chose to proceed anyway... He must have had a shiny new cheque book or something...

What the boss was like:
I remember one of the guys who worked next to me was given the model/drawing and quote for a job to supply 'X' number of some new parts. He was also given the invoice for the material and told to figure out how long he had to machine the parts & stay within the quote at the usual charge out rate $120/hr. As it turns out $14 doesn't leave much time for machining...

I did my apprenticeship there and wouldn't swap it for anywhere else given the opportunity, huge variety of gear both Manual and CNC. The only regret i have from moving companies is that some of the toys i play with now have one less axis on them, but apart from that I've never looked back!

[crazy man]

the old man and a other guy made a flat crank for a v8 years ago .found the pics for it the oither. will post if l can me bothered. all hand machined. we can is a friend of the old man's he has some cool gear there

[Grumph]

Rich - Looking at the dyno curves posted on ESE thread I'm impressed by how flat a torque curve it has and how long a power band...dare I say very like a Honda road bike....
I'm sure kev has optimised cam and head but IMO you can sacrifice some of that wide range for a better defined peak - at least on big tracks. Kev will probably have some ideas on a pipe to do this....
On Ruapuna and from what I'm told taupo too, buckets are pretty much a constant speed motor and can be tuned accordingly.

[husaberg]

Rich - Looking at the dyno curves posted on ESE thread I'm impressed by how flat a torque curve it has and how long a power band...dare I say very like a Honda road bike....


Same flat as impressive for sure ........oh yeah i agree with Grumph and Dave Hondas are the best.
Don't think you should make it any faster though:innocent:

[richban]

Rich - Looking at the dyno curves posted on ESE thread I'm impressed by how flat a torque curve it has and how long a power band...dare I say very like a Honda road bike....
I'm sure kev has optimised cam and head but IMO you can sacrifice some of that wide range for a better defined peak - at least on big tracks. Kev will probably have some ideas on a pipe to do this....
On Ruapuna and from what I'm told taupo too, buckets are pretty much a constant speed motor and can be tuned accordingly.



Yeah it rides quite well. There is work to do on the carb. Still main jet and main air jet are a little mismatched. I will do a back to back with the old carb and see what it looks like. As you say there is a peak missing in the curve. The engine was certainly designed to have one so I will try figure out where its gone. The pipe should be very close for that rpm. Saying that I am making some new headers to try soonish.

Now with the exhaust not touching at all and the pumper working well things are starting to click. The last 20 lap race of the weekend was the highlight for me. Because I snapped my chain and missed qualifying I was starting from the back of the grid every race. Bugger. Last race got a blinding start and worked my way to the front end of the pack for an epic battle with Gary, Sketchy and Reagan. It was a heap of fun with lots of move's being made and some fast laps. It was the battle for 3rd really as Gavin and Nathaniel were a little to far up the road. Reagan managed to hang on to 3rd but I got past for 4th on the last lap. So from 18th or 19th to 4th was not so bad. And managed to drop my lap times to the target hight 30 seconds.

Still need to figure what tire pressure in the rear she likes best, and also the rear shock setting. But over all it is now a comfortable fast bike that suits me well. Bring on the racing. Less spannering from now on.

[hmurphy]

Any footage? Didn't know Glen was racing, what bike was he on?

[richban]

Any footage? Didn't know Glen was racing, what bike was he on?

No sorry. To much drama with the bike to worry about video stuff. Glen was on Dave M's Bike. MB hundie weapon for that one. I think Dave and Gaz won the 2 hour on it.

[kel]

Last race got a blinding start and worked my way to the front end of the pack for an epic battle with Gary, Sketchy and Reagan. It was a heap of fun with lots of move's being made and some fast laps.

The locals would have freaked if you had pulled that move up the inside of the sweeper on them, and then your later attempt around the outside, how the hell did you still make the hairpin? Thoroughly entertaining stuff :niceone:

[richban]

The locals would have freaked if you had pulled that move up the inside of the sweeper on them, and then your later attempt around the outside, how the hell did you still make the hairpin? Thoroughly entertaining stuff :niceone:

Yes it was entertaining for sure. That outside move was a long shot and I new it would put a smile on Glens face for sure. Best race in a long time.

[Bert]

Yes it was entertaining for sure. That outside move was a long shot and I new it would put a smile on Glens face for sure. Best race in a long time.

It was a great race to watch: shame we did not get it all on film. But at least the start should be there; I'm sure it will be on GPRnz YouTube soon...

[jasonu]

No sorry. To much drama with the bike to worry about video stuff. Glen was on Dave M's Bike. MB hundie weapon for that one. I think Dave and Gaz won the 2 hour on it.

Is that Greens 30hp bike? How many HP is that currently (ie at the 2hr) makeing?

[F5 Dave]

no its one of the fleet in the April frame, no idea on power

[richban]

Is that Greens 30hp bike? How many HP is that currently (ie at the 2hr) makeing?

Not sure. I don't think its heaps. It was not the 30hp bike. I think it is quite mild. Dave and Gary are both bloody hard charges and the bike handles nice. Aprilia RS50 chassis I think.

[TZ350]

It was not the 30hp bike. I think it is quite mild. Dave and Gary are both bloody hard charges and the bike handles nice. Aprilia RS50 chassis I think.

Yes ... not the 30 hp bike.


A and B Grade Super Pole results. Best time 30.74. Clockwise.

273664 273665

The Mt Wellington 2-Hour run on Sunday was won by Dave M and Gary C riding a 2-Stroke prepared and tuned by Speedpro.

On Saturday in one of the North Island rounds Nate D was recording laps under 30's.

[kel]

Yes ... not the 30 hp bike.

I snuck a peek when Gary's bike was on the dyno, its a little more than half the hp of Speedpros A bike. Not sure about Daves it might be a hp or two more than Gary's?

[Sketchy_Racer]

Yes it was entertaining for sure. That outside move was a long shot and I new it would put a smile on Glens face for sure. Best race in a long time.

Was an awesome race loved the bold moves through the sweeper mate!

[richban]

Was an awesome race loved the bold moves through the sweeper mate!

Well hurry up and get yah bike sorted so we can do it again.

[Sketchy_Racer]

Gotta say the weekend has given me some motivation to get it sorted!

My bloody knee was an arse all day today after getting smoked at the start line by that bike, 2 kneecap dislocations in one day :mad:

[husaberg]

Well now the new engine is coming along it is time to think about the next one.

I do like the idea of a plain bearing bottom end and as grumph has mentioned the cbr 600 92/94 rods will work with some crank mods. 45.2mm.

So I surpose some reading and asking of knowledge is required. Oil pressure needs to be raised and crank balance would be critical. But what revs could it pull and last a season? 15? Don't know. Will all the seals be ok with extra oil pressure? Is it worth the bother.

I came across something interesting the other day (related with Plain bearing)
friction increases by a factor to the cube of its Diameter.
So when say the ZZR600 became the ZXR600 the bearing diameter was reduced from 32 to 30mm for a allegedly substantial reduction in friction losses. (this was referring to the mains)


Ducati when they developed the Supermono would have preferred to use a bush type bearing but they were not available in as higher spec as the two piece shells.They of course used a one piece rod to keep the crankcase as compact as possible and the Rod as light as posible

I mentioned the BSA Starfire as it was one of the few engines that i can think of the other being the Mille Ducati were a roller big end was was substituted to the plain big end into a basic roller being design.
the Starfire B25 while it suffered from problems (An alloy rod with a finite fatigue limit Alloy bodied oil pump rather than the later steel) initially) it was as a result of quality control and being aimed at a learner market that wouldn't change oil filters etc. Rather than any problems with its design.
I think also the New CBR250 single also has a plain mains but yet a needle big end (WTF) so if you have a look there it may help.
http://world.honda.com/CBR250R/engine/image/img_quientness03.gif

I have a few articles that show the detailed mode performed on so older round-case Ducatis to convert these to plain big ends and i will post these if you are interested. (http://www.bevelheaven.com/KevinBrackenEngineArticle.htm)

I also remembered this it was a Aussie LSR project based on a Honda 125 with a modded FZR600 head (http://www.dlra.org.au/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=556) with a plain big end mod well worth a look.

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t24/generatorshovel/08build.jpg

[F5 Dave]

Wot a lash up. Clearly timing is going to be affected where the knot goes over the rollers, he should have found a continuous bit of string + he needs to cut a bit of a slot in the cases.

[husaberg]

I guess there is a few loose ends to tie up.
But did you have a look at the thread?
its quite an undertaking all jokes aside.
OK Not that fast in the end but a bloody impressive piece of bush engineering.
http://www.dlra.org.au/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=556
http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t24/generatorshovel/dialnemin.jpg

[richban]

Just for Jason.



275021

275022

275023

275024

275025

[jasonu]

[QUOTE=richban;1130454071]Just for Jason.


Cheers mate.:2thumbsup

Last time I will pester you (for now anyway)
What is the model number for that carb?
What is the inside width measurement of the frame spars where the motor sits? It looks like you have a ton of sideways clearence.

[richban]

[QUOTE=richban;1130454071]Just for Jason.


Cheers mate.:2thumbsup

Last time I will pester you (for now anyway)
What is the model number for that carb?
What is the inside width measurement of the frame spars where the motor sits? It looks like you have a ton of sideways clearence.



All good will have a look later. Yep heaps of room in the NSR.

[richban]

Well after a good couple of days playing on the bike at the home track I almost have a tyre pressure and suspension setting that works good. On Friday I ran my rather rooted super soft bridgstone backwards as one side was almost brand new. After some sedate practice laps it cleaned up and started to work nice. But when I tryed to go quicker it quickly ripped to bits. Even after 4 laps of not so hard on the throttle. I ran through a few pressure changes but nothing really improved. The front is a super soft as well but has been fab. Cold pressure for the front is at 26.

On Saturday I did the same thing with a used bridgstone soft cold pressure 27. It cleaned up quick and started to work way better than the YDC. It was a massive difference for sure. I was great all day until the last race that was a little longer 15 laps and I was pushing from the start. Still better than the other tyre but if the race was 20 laps it might be dead. I am thinking of trying a 600 front on the rear next. Any recommendations welcome. Not sure how the low profile would feel on the rear.

I am making a new header to try on the dyno soon and also will do a back to back with the old carb.

Also Leigh had the noise meter out at the track mine was consistently a high 91db. Good to know.

[goose8]

Get a super bike front Dunlop will last for ages

[F5 Dave]

Get a touring Cheng Shin front, that will last a few seasons. And slow you down ya prick.

[richban]

New distraction.

Bucket legal and already on 17s. yes I now own a rather nice C90. Engine will be coming apart next week.


278723

[Yow Ling]

New distraction.

Bucket legal and already on 17s. yes I now own a rather nice C90. Engine will be coming apart next week.


278723

Nice, even nicer than my Honda Lead (the noun)

[husaberg]

Its a little known secret that i, kind of like Honda's:psst:

[koba]

New distraction.

Bucket legal and already on 17s. yes I now own a rather nice C90. Engine will be coming apart next week.


278723

Are you going to hit Glen up for a supercharger?

[cotswold]

New distraction.

Bucket legal and already on 17s. yes I now own a rather nice C90. Engine will be coming apart next week.


278723



At least you wont have to worry about the front diving under braking.

[richban]

Are you going to hit Glen up for a supercharger?



Now that my friend is a grand idea. Injected supercharged C90. no no no. Just a little freshen up with some valves porting and a cam. Oh and exhaust and carb of course.

[speedpro]

Injected supercharged C90.

Boring.

Pretty sure something like that has been done before. I seem to remember a VC160 lawnmower being involved.

[F5 Dave]

You meet the nicest people on Hondas.



and some complete kunts:lol:

[richban]

You meet the nicest people on Hondas.



and some complete kunts:lol:

speaking of rondas. I hope yours will be flying this weekend. Looking forward to some good racing.

[F5 Dave]

Yeah me too, think I have a box of sparks failure, but a particularly good egg has one I can borrow (whilst he continues worrying Chinese pit bike engines with unnatural pressure).

[richban]

Yeah me too, think I have a box of sparks failure, but a particularly good egg has one I can borrow (whilst he continues worrying Chinese pit bike engines with unnatural pressure).

Sweet. I just plugged my ignitech in with a mountain load of advance and some more rpm. Win bin or blow up. :headbang:

[richban]

Well the bike has been great except for one issue. The rear suspension was just not correct. After dicking around with an RS shock and new springs and getting know where I call KSS and got the correct spring and some great setup advice and now we are ready to attack the GP. Both the front and rear are so super plush and the bike is now proper balanced. Can't wait to twist the throttle in anger. Also looking forward to having a rear tyre left after 10 laps.

Bring on the GP.

[goose8]

Have you slowed the rebound on the front ? That will help a lot it was really fast when you had it at mt Wellington.
Well the bike has been great except for one issue. The rear suspension was just not correct. After dicking around with an RS shock and new springs and getting know where I call KSS and got the correct spring and some great setup advice and now we are ready to attack the GP. Both the front and rear are so super plush and the bike is now proper balanced. Can't wait to twist the throttle in anger. Also looking forward to having a rear tyre left after 10 laps.

Bring on the GP.

[richban]

Have you slowed the rebound on the front ? That will help a lot it was really fast when you had it at mt Wellington.

I think I might be on top of it. It felt great when cold but after a race it was a lot different / faster. At the GP you did remind me of that so I added a little more oil for the air cap as it was bottoming a little in the hard breaking bits. For some reason it felt better after some laps with a touch more fresh oil. I might try a different oil and see if that helps.

[richban]

282415282416


During the GP race the engine lost a little power and felt like it nipped up a little. That was about lap 8 /10. Needless to say it held together for the rest of the race. Anyway so I pulled the engine out and had a look. She really did get very hot judging from the plug piston and bore. Maybe some preignition.

So time to figure out what went on. I will give the barrel a little hone and go over everything and go to the dyno to setup the ignition proper. I know fuelling was a bit crap down low and maybe also with so much ignition timing in at such low rpm stock setup 34 deg 5300rpm that might be getting it really hot and causing the preignition. Not sure what the isuse is but glad I pulled it apart for a look.

[Grumph]

Sweet. I just plugged my ignitech in with a mountain load of advance and some more rpm. Win bin or blow up. :headbang:

I think we found your problem......

[richban]

I think we found your problem......

Ummm yes well true. But I only ran it for 2 tame laps way before the GP. But it sure as shit did not help.

[crazy man]

Ummm yes well true. But I only ran it for 2 tame laps way before the GP. But it sure as shit did not help.what is the bore to piston clearance your running?

[richban]

what is the bore to piston clearance your running?

Not sure actually. I didn't check it when it went I put it back together last time. I was more concerned with the piston hitting the head. HPE did the bore and to piston setup so I think it should be ok. They know well what a bashing it was in for. It does get very hot normally and I think at that track I was on part trottle more than I have been in the past. There are specks on the porcelaine of the plug. I will check the valve clearance as well. I am sure the seats have had a major burn up.

[richban]

Well just got back from some testing at the Dyno. Always mixed results but very good at the moment. After discovering the airbox was a major problem all started to come right. end of session 29.8 peak. So 27 Dyno Jet HP

Nice.

Lots more to do but ran out of time. Still a big hole in the middle and a new aribox to make. Also very rich at half throttle. so lots of improvement to come.

Will post graph later.

[F5 Dave]

wow, that is an improvement. good work indeed.

[TZ350]

Well just got back from some testing at the Dyno. So 27 Dyno Jet HP Lots more to do but ran out of time.

27 on a Dynojet :woohoo:, Very impressive, I take my hat off to you sir ....... :motu:

[speedpro]

That is impressive. Best I get busy I suppose.

[richban]

27 on a Dynojet :woohoo:, Very impressive, I take my hat off to you sir ....... :motu:


Wish I had off sorted it before the GP is all I can say. Man its fast now. The hole in the middle is a pain but it will be fine for Manfield over the weekend. I am sure I can get 30 on the motormart dyno with some fresh fuel and a bit more fine tuning. Injection would have been handy today. Soon we will go there.

[goose8]

Very flash, well impressed mr ban
Wish I had off sorted it before the GP is all I can say. Man its fast now. The hole in the middle is a pain but it will be fine for Manfield over the weekend. I am sure I can get 30 on the motormart dyno with some fresh fuel and a bit more fine tuning. Injection would have been handy today. Soon we will go there.

[husaberg]

Well just got back from some testing at the Dyno. Always mixed results but very good at the moment. After discovering the airbox was a major problem all started to come right. end of session 29.8 peak. So 27 Dyno Jet HP

Nice.

Lots more to do but ran out of time. Still a big hole in the middle and a new aribox to make. Also very rich at half throttle. so lots of improvement to come.

Will post graph later.

That is impressive.............. What was the issue with the airbox?

[richban]

What was the issue with the airbox?

It was wrong. I still don't know. Basically when I took it off it gained 1.5hp and a bigger hole in the middle. I think it is just 2 small and crap. Also could been where it was drawing the air. I need to investigate further when the fuelling can be controlled better at half throttle. So its all intake mods to fine tune it. Just wish I had my own dyno. Would be so easy. Still need to test the old carb. Will do that next.

[richban]

Well what better place than Manfield to try out the new improved engine. It was super quick. I managed to run a 1:29.7 a new lap record. Sweet. Still a bit of a pig at half throttle but after some more airbox mods today it was a little better. Now I need a new clutch. It is toasted. The steels were quite old as it was so might start with a complete new one. I have a new love for manfield. It is way tricker than it looks.

Now to find that perfect needle. And build a proper airbox.

[Bert]

Well what better place than Manfield to try out the new improved engine. It was super quick. I managed to run a 1:29.7 a new lap record. Sweet. Still a bit of a pig at half throttle but after some more airbox mods today it was a little better. Now I need a new clutch. It is toasted. The steels were quite old as it was so might start with a complete new one. I have a new love for manfield. It is way tricker than it looks.

Now to find that perfect needle. And build a proper airbox.

Wicked day watching you destroy all the Streetstock/minilights/development/250 production bikes on the track; I know a few others had a smiles on their faces as well.
Funny commentary when they found out it was a bucket on pole... :nya:
And even Mr Gibbs was having a giggle as well.

Looks like a new challenge has been set (lap record of minefield)...

[speedpro]

Now to find that perfect needle.


Or you could fit an Ecotron engine management system. Their Honda clone default configuration should be on the money.

[richban]

Or you could fit an Ecotron engine management system. Their Honda clone default configuration should be on the money.


Had a look at the website but didn't see any honda clone reference. I would want to use a bigger throttle body. A 38.

[speedpro]

I think they recommend 42mm TBs for engines over 200cc

[husaberg]

No one seen that comming:whistle:

[richban]

No one seen that comming:whistle:

True that. Might be getting a little old.

[husaberg]

Some of the old material is still funny though..........

[richban]

Some of the old material is still funny though..........

I surpose. Stick to what works and all that. I am quite amazed at the power that engine is making. I think lots of bucket engines out there are hiding power, you just have to keep playing till the stars aline.

[Buddha#81]

I surpose. Stick to what works and all that. I am quite amazed at the power that engine is making. I think lots of bucket engines out there are hiding power, you just have to keep playing till the stars aline.

But the stars never seem to align though.......dam stinky stars

[Yow Ling]

But the stars never seem to align though.......dam stinky stars

Thats cos you too short to reach them

[richban]

Found this and thought it might be interesting for someone.

Blue line Airbox on. Green line airbox off. I think I have the 2 lines meeting now with the best of both but not sure until more dyno time.

283987


The big gains from last visit were found with airbox, exhaust and ignition. The new exhaust leaned it so much it heat seized at the gp. The airbox was holding everything back and the ignition was clearly no were near its potential. Still the ignition is not optimised but ok for now. Also repacked the muffler yesterday and found it was rather hammered. I have a carbon muffler I will try out soon. If nothing eles it will be lighter than the SS version on the bike. A 30hp 4 stroke is completely possible. Just need time and some cooling. Air cooled not so sure.

[TZ350]

This is looking very good.

[richban]

This is looking very good.

It did peak at 29.8 but it was messy. Consistant 29.5. I will get it on a dyno jet for some fine tuning at some stage. Injection would have been nice. Its hard to balace a carb for max power and mid. Especially when you have reversion at 8k. I have a new needle in it that should have fixed the bad fuelling in the middle. Will be testing tomorrow at the track.

[timg]

Found this and thought it might be interesting for someone. Very impressive Rich. Go the 4T's :woohoo:
Lookin' forward to seeing it at the BOB.
Cheers.

[richban]

Very impressive Rich. Go the 4T's :woohoo:
Lookin' forward to seeing it at the BOB.
Cheers.

Yes well little problem with that. Motogp at Philip Island. Have already organised it. Will have to come down for a club meet.

[F5 Dave]

Ah shame
Looking forward to doing a wgtn 1-2. Think you'd have the go to follow us in this year;)

[timg]

Yes well little problem with that. Motogp at Philip Island. Have already organised it. Will have to come down for a club meet. Hey, no problem - send your bike, I'll ride it for you :yes:

[richban]

Ok so the bike is still running. Tick.

Last time out the rear shock gave up so I thought it was time to try get the RS shock to work with the crazy big spring it needs. After taking the oil weight from 5 to 7 it seams to work good. It hasn't been on the track but it seams controllable. Also adds ride hight adjustment and saves over a 1.5kg in weight.

Next project is put the MC18 engine in the other MC21 Chassis I have. Can't wait to ride a proper 250 in a good chassis.

[Grumph]

Yes well little problem with that. Motogp at Philip Island. Have already organised it. Will have to come down for a club meet.

Methven at Easter...easy reach from ChCh and one of the best bucket tracks in the country.