Trail Rides

[Lawrence]

Just got back from Berm Buster, our first time at an organized trail ride. Great event but I have come away with very surprised and mixed feelings about some of the riders at these events.

I was riding my ten year old boy Josh, him on his XR70 and me following behind.

He has been building his confidence over the past few months, regularly riding with me at Woodhill.
He has developed a strong common sense for a young fella when it comes to riding with the big boys.
He knows to hold his line and keep left when being past. I ride behind him and will give him a warning blip when I know someone is behind and is about to pass.
Once he pulls in I signal the person behind to pass at it’s all good. Never had one problem at Woodhill

Berm Buster was a different story. Two minutes into the 17km loop we are passed by three riders going full noise.
He got such a fright he arsed off just as the third rider is passing him.
The rider turns and watches him hit the deck. He did not stop just kept going!

We keep going as more and more riders just cane it past us, some showering him with roost. By this time I am ^&*%%ing irate to say the least.

One knuckle I could hear shouting at me to move. Then sprays us both with rocks as he passes by. I tried to find him in the pits later, but lucky for him I could not see him.

There were a few but not many courteous and helpful riders on the day. A big thanks to one guy who stepped in helped josh up a hill climb without any hesitation,
and another guy who stopped to offer help on a big descent.

But I’m very surprised by the fact that not some but MOST of the riders passed very dangerously and so unnecessarily fast.

I don’t know what the etiquette is for these events and if this is the right place to vent about it.
But I want to know what peoples views are about taking kids on trail rides.

If I am in the wrong from doing so then tell me. But I figure they have to start somewhere.
Plus I paid the money like everyone else so I feel We have very right to be out there too and to be reasonably safe.

I think it was a miracle he made it back alive. We kept to the novice track after that.

Look forward to peoples comments an views on this matter.

[Paulo]

cant offer any sage advice , but good on you for taking the young fella out, sure has to beat playing video games. Sadly there will always be morons wherever you go. Pretty much why I avoid group rides.

Hope he doesn't get too put off bikes, Sounds like he just got back on and kept at it.

cheers!

[LVN_CR250]

Willl always be drongos at trail rides thinking they are in an AMA supercross. As long as you ya lad holds his line they can get farked

[unstuck]

Fuckwits are everywhere, fact of life. Well done for getting the lad out there, maybe keep him on the novice tracks until he is up to a more consistent speed.:Punk:

[green machine]

Just got back from Berm Buster, our first time at an organized trail ride. Great event but I have come away with very surprised and mixed feelings about some of the riders at these events.

I was riding my ten year old boy Josh, him on his XR70 and me following behind.

He has been building his confidence over the past few months, regularly riding with me at Woodhill.
He has developed a strong common sense for a young fella when it comes to riding with the big boys.
He knows to hold his line and keep left when being past. I ride behind him and will give him a warning blip when I know someone is behind and is about to pass.
Once he pulls in I signal the person behind to pass at it’s all good. Never had one problem at Woodhill

Berm Buster was a different story. Two minutes into the 17km loop we are passed by three riders going full noise.
He got such a fright he arsed off just as the third rider is passing him.
The rider turns and watches him hit the deck. He did not stop just kept going!

We keep going as more and more riders just cane it past us, some showering him with roost. By this time I am ^&*%%ing irate to say the least.

One knuckle I could hear shouting at me to move. Then sprays us both with rocks as he passes by. I tried to find him in the pits later, but lucky for him I could not see him.

There were a few but not many courteous and helpful riders on the day. A big thanks to one guy who stepped in helped josh up a hill climb without any hesitation,
and another guy who stopped to offer help on a big descent.

But I’m very surprised by the fact that not some but MOST of the riders passed very dangerously and so unnecessarily fast.

I don’t know what the etiquette is for these events and if this is the right place to vent about it.
But I want to know what peoples views are about taking kids on trail rides.

If I am in the wrong from doing so then tell me. But I figure they have to start somewhere.
Plus I paid the money like everyone else so I feel We have very right to be out there too and to be reasonably safe.

I think it was a miracle he made it back alive. We kept to the novice track after that.

Look forward to peoples comments an views on this matter.

Unfortunately mate there is always that element at trail rides,tho i have to say they seem to really come out of the woodwork at the Taupo rides,as someone said maybe just stick to the novice tracks for a while.....it's not only the young fullas that get pushed and bullied by the so called "gun" riders,me and my mates aren't superstar riders all 40 plus, and on the last Epic Events ride got,forced off the track and abused by a bunch of idiots......should have seen them drop nuts and apologise profusely(they were all of 17,i felt like a bit of a bully but i was livid) when we found them in the pits and gave them a bit of a rev up about Trail Ride Etiquette.........but don't lose faith mate,the people who help you when you're stuck,hurt,broken down or just need help far outweigh the idiots.......

[Ocean1]

should have seen them drop nuts and apologise profusely(they were all of 17,i felt like a bit of a bully but i was livid) when we found them in the pits and gave them a bit of a rev up about Trail Ride Etiquette.

And that's exactly what's going to develop and enforce a socially acceptable code of behaviour for such events, hard words from the older guys, good man.

Think the organisers need to have a wee talk at kick-off, also, it's one thing printing general rules on the flyer and posters but it needs reinforcing that bad behaviour won't be tolerated.

Having said that I'll also add that I've noticed many occasions where guys will help out a nipper, and it's great to see.

[takitimu]

Sorry to hear, it's something I think is tricky at trail rides, the diversity of skills can be extreme.

I suspect berm buster would be nearly as tough as it gets, a huge ride and fast tracks, I've not ridden the trail ride but the enduro gave me a feel and its quick.

I suspect you need to look at the crowd riding and judge from there, I would recommend the waitemata rides, they are a good crew and from the rides I have done everyone seems pretty respectful.

I know the kids want to ride the big track, but riding ( racing ) your mates you can be moving and passing someone significantly slower it's not that easy to avoid spraying them without dropping behind and that's trying to be nice, I'm not defending someone doing it, but I do think starting on the novice tracks is good, also give the young guys an hour or two to blow themselves out, my bet would be later in the day the riders will be more fit and likely to be more respectful on the main track, the first few loops tend to be the worst from what I've seen.

[scott411]

as above, the Berm Buster would be one of the hardest place to pass, with narrow tracks and a big speed difference make hard work, with alot of single track you would have to use the slighly wider places quickly,

the 17km loop i guess would be one of the bigger ones, so you would get people going fairly quick,

but it is no excuse, i can ride as faster than most on a trail ride (in fact i have won heaps of them ;) helps when your the lead rider in a marshalls bib that no one is allowed to pass), and if i see someone on a bike the size of a 70 ill be extra carefull, giving more than enough room,

and i have gone off at many a rider who did not show new comers that sort of respect, i have had plenty of run ins telling people to have more respect,

I think the farm type rides may be better to get a bit more riding in rather than the forest based ones, as you usually get more room to work with when you have slower and faster riders trying to ride the same peice of turf

what Steve says above about running people off the track, thats a bit far, but ill blip my throttle or yell "yo" or something to let people know when i have caught them, so they know i am there, most people will let you pass at the first oppurtunity, but some think that they do not need to let you pass and go to the point of trying to keep you behind, so you have to be a bit more aggressive to get past and ride the pace that i want to, i have had one argument with someone that thought i was a bit aggresive, but i asked him why he did not let me past, his response was he did not have to, i told him i did not have to go his speed either, we agreed to disagree, i had given the kids behind him a heap more room, but he was activly trying to keep me behind,

as for getting roosted, it is part of riding dirt bike to a point, but most riders will give the little fellers a bit of space,

as for having a riders briefing, it is very hard on the bigger rides, as most people do not listen to you, that is why most big rides have gone to written briefing,

[fridayflash]

great stuff gettin your lad out riding mate, i ride with my 16 year old boy
and have done since i taught him to ride aged 8, the best father and son
times ever!

but re- this issue of aerosols roosting around trailrides with reckless disregard
for anyone else on the track...i hear you and it makes my blood boil!
i think the pricks really see themselves as 'racing' yet funnily enough they
were nowhere to be seen on the expert sections!

[motor_mayhem]

Last one I went on was Tussock Buster and I didn't really see anyone like that at all but I think that may have been a tougher ride and even the good (crazy) riders were slowed down a bit. When I was getting my bike up the sludgy bank at the end of the longest river crossing there, there were at least 3 strangers who grabbed my front wheel and helped pull it over the top. Once mine was out we went and pulled out a few more bikes, was exactly how it should be.

[Flicks]

I would say stick to the MR Motorcycles events till he gets a bit more confident, alot more room and generally less fast people and more family's cruising around. Easy rides too. And if someone is behind you i would suggest you move to the side right away cause when riders are going fast they don't wanna slow down for very long. Unfortunately i think you just have to put up with it. Make sure he has a chest protector and goggles =D.

[mattnzl]

If you're down this way again, check out this ride: http://www.ttbrc.co.nz/index.php?page/trailrides

These guys have it sorted - there is a morning & afternoon loop. In the morning they take ONLY kids/novices out on the afternoon loop so they have it all to themselves and can get a taste & practice on a "big loop" without anyone flying past.

You're obviously a "good dad", but man we've also struck some muppet parents too!

Dad on an old farm hack riding beside the kid so no one can get past :facepalm:
Kid stuck on a hill crying - ask where's your dad? Kid has no idea as "dad" has fecked off on his own :shit:

[buffstar]

I wont take my wee boy on a big ride - for the exact reason of dickheads riding like ..... dickheads ! Riding at Trail Blazer reinforced my opinion that its just too dangerous to risk his wee neck - saw some utter tools on the gravel roads taking kids out left and right.
Took my big girl to Tussock and we got taken out by a bunch of dicks racing each other - ended up taking a loooong drive to Wanganui Hospital & she has not wanted to get on a dirtbike since (got a new 125 coming for her tho to tempt her back into it)
As mentioned before you do have alot of parents ditching their kids - :facepalm: they too come under the dickhead banner.
I have noticed some parents riding with kids wearing a fluro vest - good idea that - draws attention to you and also keeps em guessing as to whether or not you are a marshall.
Earlier advice to wait for an hour or so is good - all the gungho cowboys are usually pushing to get out as soon as the track opens so you dont come across as many of them.
Good on your boy for making it round and good on the people who stop to help - theres lots of them out there too.

[BoristheBiter]

as above, the Berm Buster would be one of the hardest place to pass, with narrow tracks and a big speed difference make hard work, with alot of single track you would have to use the slighly wider places quickly,

the 17km loop i guess would be one of the bigger ones, so you would get people going fairly quick,

but it is no excuse, i can ride as faster than most on a trail ride (in fact i have won heaps of them ;) helps when your the lead rider in a marshalls bib that no one is allowed to pass), and if i see someone on a bike the size of a 70 ill be extra carefull, giving more than enough room,

and i have gone off at many a rider who did not show new comers that sort of respect, i have had plenty of run ins telling people to have more respect,

I think the farm type rides may be better to get a bit more riding in rather than the forest based ones, as you usually get more room to work with when you have slower and faster riders trying to ride the same peice of turf

what Steve says above about running people off the track, thats a bit far, but ill blip my throttle or yell "yo" or something to let people know when i have caught them, so they know i am there, most people will let you pass at the first oppurtunity, but some think that they do not need to let you pass and go to the point of trying to keep you behind, so you have to be a bit more aggressive to get past and ride the pace that i want to, i have had one argument with someone that thought i was a bit aggresive, but i asked him why he did not let me past, his response was he did not have to, i told him i did not have to go his speed either, we agreed to disagree, i had given the kids behind him a heap more room, but he was activly trying to keep me behind,

as for getting roosted, it is part of riding dirt bike to a point, but most riders will give the little fellers a bit of space,

as for having a riders briefing, it is very hard on the bigger rides, as most people do not listen to you, that is why most big rides have gone to written briefing,

I have noticed that all the epic rides seem to bring out the worst in people, whether that be not moving over or pushing past.
The only one that hasn't happened on was pumice blast a couple of years ago when it was a bog.
Even at DS this year two quads got stuck in front of us, no way past, no one helping to move them, just giving them roost while trying to go though the trees. I helped them, took two minutes and back on the track.

I ride other rides and this does happen but not to the extent it does in Taupo.

If someone is capable to do the large loops then why should they have to do the small ones if they are a bit slow?
I have seen many that go screaming past then can't get up the next hill, I always give them a wave.
It is quite a laugh though when i watch the video footage at the end of the day to see all that push past then crash as they are going too fast for the corners.

But this is the waving thread of dirt riding and it will continue to be so for many more years.
The way I see it if you want to go flat out then go race (as I have done), but then it even seems to be more courtesy when racing, I guess that because most are going flat out.

Courtesy seems to have gone out of our sport.

[BoristheBiter]

I wont take my wee boy on a big ride - for the exact reason of dickheads riding like ..... dickheads ! Riding at Trail Blazer reinforced my opinion that its just too dangerous to risk his wee neck - saw some utter tools on the gravel roads taking kids out left and right.
Took my big girl to Tussock and we got taken out by a bunch of dicks racing each other - ended up taking a loooong drive to Wanganui Hospital & she has not wanted to get on a dirtbike since (got a new 125 coming for her tho to tempt her back into it)
As mentioned before you do have alot of parents ditching their kids - :facepalm: they too come under the dickhead banner.
I have noticed some parents riding with kids wearing a fluro vest - good idea that - draws attention to you and also keeps em guessing as to whether or not you are a marshall.
Earlier advice to wait for an hour or so is good - all the gungho cowboys are usually pushing to get out as soon as the track opens so you dont come across as many of them.
Good on your boy for making it round and good on the people who stop to help - theres lots of them out there too.

I wore a hi-vis raincoat at DS a couple of years ago, lost count at how many bikes i fixed in the track.

[Dave89]

From the epic event rides we have done there is certainly more of this type of behaviour than at most rides.
But dont be put of orgainised trail rides. Mr motorcycles events although very busy dont seem to attract this type of behaviour , and all the Northland farm based rides advertised via Rouse motorcycles are very kid friendly.
Having said that we did have a blast at last weekends Berm Buster.

[Shadykiwi]

Sorry to hear of your negative experiences. Unfortunatly, as with a lot of sports or gatherings, there will always be idiots. Personally I will always slow down for a rider and when passing younger kids Ill make a further effort to pass at a slow pace and get some distance prior to putting the throttle back on. I have been to numerous Epic Events and yes there have been idiots (As with many other trial rides) but generally these rides are very well run and are alot of good fun. I have seen dads reving to let their kids know a rider is comming, which I think is a really good idea. Also I have seen kids riding with those Hi vis flags on a stick (Like we used to ride on our bicycle years ago), these stick out really well. Keep it up im sure it will still be years of enjoyment.

[Lawrence]

Thanks to all for the positive encouragement and advice. Although there were a some moments of terror, and tears there was one moment when we stopped for a rest, and he said 'dad check out the view of the forest'. He came away from the event a bit shaken but stoked with himself that he made the 17km loop. A lesson learned for me also to not push it, so we will stick to the novice and family loops at forthcoming events. We are looking forward to the Mr Motorcycle events this spring.

Thanks again and happy trails....

[scott411]

Thanks to all for the positive encouragement and advice. Although there were a some moments of terror, and tears there was one moment when we stopped for a rest, and he said 'dad check out the view of the forest'. He came away from the event a bit shaken but stoked with himself that he made the 17km loop. A lesson learned for me also to not push it, so we will stick to the novice and family loops at forthcoming events. We are looking forward to the Mr Motorcycle events this spring.

Thanks again and happy trails....

I think the MR rides will be good for you, Glen Murrey is noramlly the biggest rides numbers wise so it may not be a good idea to take him out on the main loop, but they do have a good family loop there that has some challanges, some of the later ones will be better to do the big loops,

I still remember in the early days of going riding with my old man in the Tarawera forest on a DS80, we still go riding together now over 25 years later, in fact i can still remeber him screaming at me to keep my f n feet on the pegs now, when i catch him on rides i scream at him to stand up and keep his f n feet on the pegs,

[LankyBastard]

I have had a similar experience at the Epic events, both myself and the better half have just got into off road riding, so a both complete novices. I stayed off the longer trails to respect the much better riders, as I don't want to get in their way, but what really pissed me off were the far from novice riders cutting us up and nearly pushing us off the trails on the novice loop! Do they get kicks out of being able to go fast on the easy novice tracks, or are novice riders the only people they can actually overtake, and they do it to make them feel like pros? Fucking idiots.

Luckily there were far more people who passed safely and kindly durning the day.

Oh and if you're like me and have always ridden road, get into dirt, its freking awesome, but get coaching. I did, what a help!!!

[BoristheBiter]

I have had a similar experience at the Epic events, both myself and the better half have just got into off road riding, so a both complete novices. I stayed off the longer trails to respect the much better riders, as I don't want to get in their way, but what really pissed me off were the far from novice riders cutting us up and nearly pushing us off the trails on the novice loop! Do they get kicks out of being able to go fast on the easy novice tracks, or are novice riders the only people they can actually overtake, and they do it to make them feel like pros? Fucking idiots.

Luckily there were far more people who passed safely and kindly durning the day.

Oh and if you're like me and have always ridden road, get into dirt, its freking awesome, but get coaching. I did, what a help!!!

Yes it seems it does.
There usually are.
Oh it is, and in big ways it helps.

[browny]

It seems from some responses that if you go fast or racing you're an idiot, not sayin we're aren't all the time but you can go fast and be courteous at the same time. The team I normally ride with at rides are late thirties early forties and with kids. We wil stop and help other kids when it's obvious they're battling a bit, and not only kids. But there also a lot of idiots out there, albeit doing the right thing with their nippers,in some places way out of the wee fellas league usally blocking faster riders at the same time.then squawking when someone loses there patience and gives them a squirt of dirt,it's not necessary I know and I never done it nor would I, but yunno. Stick to the novice loops until they are truly ready for a mainer,not on their first trail ride.as has been said there's more decent guys than dickheads but not everyone go's on trail rides to view the scenery even when it is spectacular.trail rides requires common sense from everyone not just blaming the fast guys.

[Utenz]

I have just done a ride with my boy on a PW80, there were a scant few who behaved in this manner. We ride on the Waitemata Club family days at Woodhill. The few who blip the throttle (and the one who yelled at me to move aside), I stop & explain to them that if they can't pass a PW80 in first gear there must be a problem with their riding ability.
The WMC family days are just that, for the whole family.
http://www.waitematamcc.co.nz/

Come along & if you find me there your lad may even tag along with my boys while you have a lap on the larger loops.

[Lawrence]

I have just done a ride with my boy on a PW80, there were a scant few who behaved in this manner. We ride on the Waitemata Club family days at Woodhill. The few who blip the throttle (and the one who yelled at me to move aside), I stop & explain to them that if they can't pass a PW80 in first gear there must be a problem with their riding ability.
The WMC family days are just that, for the whole family.
http://www.waitematamcc.co.nz/

Come along & if you find me there your lad may even tag along with my boys while you have a lap on the larger loops.

Thanks for the offer, very keen to do that. Would be good to ride with others at the same level.

[random rider]

I've done a few of the Epic rides, the Tussock, Mr Motorcycle and the WMCC and Sandpit style rides. The Mr MX, WMCC and Sandpit one's are my favourite rides.

Epic is by far the worst for dickhead riders. I am not fast....but not super slow. I am a "Monday Rider" - meaning I have work on Monday so can't really afford too many bad spills! I hold my line, pull over and put a hand down to wave the rider through - when I can. It isn't always possible. But I do try.

But it seems some riders are out for the win at the trail rides. If they want to go fast - fine - but don't take me out on the way. Epic rides are great but attract more of those dicks. I might
be controversial but I find the age group to be 16 to 30 males to be the worst. I know not all are like that but this is the group I find the worst.

On the other hand I have had some awesome people stop to help me out...getting out of bogs, up hills and even out of a gorse bush, and I would say that I get a few yelled - Thanks - as I let people past, which makes it all worth while. :Punk:

I agree the rides are getting big and that a big debrief can be hard but the culture at some of the events needs to be changed. There is no reason at sign in that people are told or where they sign in they acknowledge some basic track courtesy.

It is hard to get kids or more nervous people into the rides and this behaviour doesn't help at all.

[ktm84mxc]

The problems are how do you cater for the vast range of rider ability's and bikes? If you attract 1000 riders and 10% are aggressive racers/riders that's a 100 accidents waiting to happen be it to them or those they may cross paths with. What do you do ? impossible to have a marshal[fun police] on every corner/straight.
You'll soon find events that suit the style of riding you're happy with best to stick to those and leave the aggressive/racer types to enjoy wiping out each other at events like Berm buster etc.

[Jay GTI]

I know when Nick Reader owned Epic, he was really struggling with the issue of guys riding as if they were on a fast lap of a GNCC round. The problem is bikes have come so far in the last 5 to 10 years that people can buy serious machines that are easy to ride fast for sod all money, so pretty much anyone can get out there and be quick enough to be a problem. Dirt biking is becoming more and more popular in NZ, which is great for the scene and the people that feed it, but it also means there's a lot more people out riding that haven't got the experience or rider courtesy some of the more experienced have.

There is no magic answer to the problem, just keep leading by example, ride courteously and hopefully (fingers crossed) the idiots will get it and do the same.

[budget biker]

been in the same situation.all i can suggest is keep at it . i used to ride behind my kid(hes quicker than me now so i dont see him much) and ride just slightly wider than him so faster guys had time to see him .suggest you check out the honda kids club rides. awesome for this level and the slower the riderthe more priority they have on the track, .the hamilton one i did this yr with my daughter was great .varying levels of track difficulty to suit most riders. highly recommended