Could you have avoided this?

[kiwifruit]

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[caseye]

The one time I had a similar situation I stopped and waited for the arsehole truck driver. He got shitty and flipped me the bird. This looked to be all over rover at the second evaluation, no one moving, right on top of the intersection only to see the bloody black truck start moving. That driver must have seen him from that distance, what was he thinking?
To answer your question, that close in before becoming aware of that much road block "moving", I'm not sure I could have, no escape routes, no certainty that having seen you he was going to stop and allow you to go around in front of him.Terrible situation.
Where was this filmed and was it you?

[kiwifruit]

Where was this filmed and was it you?

I think it was filmed in the UK. If it was me I would have avoided it :msn-wink:

[Katman]

The first thing that strikes me is that the running commentary suggests that his mind wasn't entirely on the job.

[BoristheBiter]

I was hoping the camera had come off and was not the rider flying like that.

But no as i probably would have been going faster.

[BigAl]

No way to avoid that as bike wasn't even going that quick, fucking truck driver needs a bloody good thrashing!:crazy:

Looked nasty for the rider with certain internal injuries I'd suspect, I hope driver got done.

[pzkpfw]

The first thing that strikes me is that the running commentary suggests that his mind wasn't entirely on the job.

I have to agree with this. It's what I was thinking. The guy is riding a bike and seems to be making a commentary on road tax or something.


As for the truck driver, I'd expect he looked down the road, saw nothing, and from then on his mind was on the truck to his right. He should have looked again, but didn't. (People generally can't see 'round corners, which is a good reason not to go too fast; you can't blame someone for pulling out in front of you when they can't predict you'll appear from around the corner. But here, the bike wasn't all that fast. The truckie had time for a second look.)

I think I'd have hit the truck too. I'd like to claim I'd have slowed down way more on seeing the potential for trouble, or perhaps moved more to the left. But can't really guarantee that. The video is a good reminder, regardless of "fault" or whatever.

[Drew]

There's no maybe option.

It was avoidable, but I can't make a claim either way other than that.

[Gremlin]

Positioning was good, not close to the centre line, but yes, talking to video he seems to have not factored in the black truck is still covering ground.

That said... yeah, the truck moved right across in front of him, but it seems he assumed too much and didn't reduce his speed at all...

Moving to survival skills, I think it's best there.

[george formby]

The first thing that strikes me is that the running commentary suggests that his mind wasn't entirely on the job.

I concur. i struggle to hold a conversation when I'm driving a car.

That whole scenario would have had my spidey senses screaming. Not so much the trucks but what other road users, hidden to me, behind them might do. Potentially blocked escape routes... I would be very slow by that point, lots going on. The truck is indicating too. I would really be checking that I had been seen & slowing accordingly.
Well, that would happen on a good day, if my piles weren't distracting me. Otherwise I could fuck up a situation like that if my head was not 100%.

Not gonna vote because I ain't perfick.

[Drew]

I can't even be bothered winding you cunts up about your hypocrisy. I think I should see a doctor.

[bogan]

Same thing happened to me with an old lady in a mondeo (iirc). Fortunately both vehicles speeds were lowing in my case, and had I been only a meter or two further up the road, I would have stopped before impact. As it was I left a dent in the rear door, kept the bike upright, but got pretty sore nuts.

So I learnt my lesson, and look for those cues now, so yes I think I could avoid it. And yes I can understand that plenty of riders couldn't!


The first thing that strikes me is that the running commentary suggests that his mind wasn't entirely on the job.

I agree, the truck didn't appear to have slowed below 10kmhr (hard to tell from the vid) so the rider could have noticed it had he been looking.

[BoristheBiter]

I can't even be bothered winding you cunts up about your hypocrisy. I think I should see a doctor.

O go on, you know you're dying to. Maybe have a few beers.

[Katman]

As far as potential hazards go that situation is dripping with them.

The two trucks block off almost all the escape routes and it doesn't appear particularly well lit in amongst the trees.

I'd have been doing whatever it takes to ensure the truck driver spotted me.

It also didn't appear that the motorcyclist slowed down noticeably.

[george formby]

As far as potential hazards go that situation is dripping with them.

The two trucks block off almost all the escape routes and it doesn't appear particularly well lit in amongst the trees.

I'd have been doing whatever it takes to ensure the truck driver spotted me.

It also didn't appear that the motorcyclist slowed down noticeably.

An instant "oh fuck, look at this lot" reaction.

[kiwifruit]

As far as potential hazards go that situation is dripping with them.



U r

[Drew]

O go on, you know you're dying to. Maybe have a few beers.......:oi-grr:

[neels]

It looks to have been avoidable, if approached with a bit more caution.

My biggest concerns in that situation would be the red truck pulling out in front of me, or a car appearing from behind the black truck in my lane,the black truck turning into my lane wouldn't be high on the list of possibles.

I'd like to think that whole thing would have me twitching enough that I would have slowed enough to either stop or take evasive action, wouldn't be the first time I'd crawled through an ugly traffic situation just in case someone did something stupid.

[p.dath]

I'd be lying on the road. I doubt I could have avoided it.

[Drew]

It is surprising, how little the rider seemed to slow down. But looking at the damage to the bike, I doubt he'd have been doing 30k's at the point of impact. Didn't even break the headlights.

I think you lot are being overly critical of the guy.

[Paul in NZ]

With 20/20 hindsight of course I could have avoided it...

In the real world - less so.....

Even with him telling me there was a black truck I was focused on the red truck as it looked the bigger threat. Even though I knew an accident was going to happen I was still half expecting it to be the red truck moving again...

Its a very instructive video. Something the riding trainers who frequent this board VERY occasionally could use I suspect.

[onearmedbandit]

On a set of Bridgestone S20's I could've avoided it.

[Phantom Limb]

For me it would depend on what my goals were for going on a ride. If I were on my way to work, I think I would have avoided the collison as my 'going to work' riding mode involves expecting every second Dorkland cager to attempt to kill me.
However if I were on a sunday ride and perhaps not concentrating with the required level of suspicion, then it'd probably be an inevitable bin.

[Lozza2442]

For me it would depend on what my goals were for going on a ride. If I were on my way to work, I think I would have avoided the collison as my 'going to work' riding mode involves expecting every second Dorkland cager to attempt to kill me.
However if I were on a sunday ride and perhaps not concentrating with the required level of suspicion, then it'd probably be an inevitable bin.

Agreed. It all depends on mindset. If it was a weekday I'd assume the truck driver wanted to pull out regardless as they have crazy strict deadlines and slowed down a fuck tonne regardless of what was behind me. Can always speed up after the intersection..
If it was the weekend, or I was distracted (maybe if the Red truck looked like he was gonna move) I prob would've been on the ground.

I think this is a situation where a warning toot on the horn would've helped.

On the plus side, at least the dude hit the truck head on instead of skidding underneath it.

[george formby]

It is surprising, how little the rider seemed to slow down. But looking at the damage to the bike, I doubt he'd have been doing 30k's at the point of impact. Didn't even break the headlights.

I think you lot are being overly critical of the guy.

I agree, it's hard to judge speed, closing distance etc. Just a few metres in it really, but that's more than enough.

[Katman]

U r

<img src="http://www.mbpopart.com/assets/paintings%20by%20year/2010/I-Know-Right%20copy.jpg"/>

[Madness]

The way the video pauses with the narration boxes makes it hard to gauge exactly how much the rider slowed. With it being a dual carriageway lined with trees and two bif fuck-off trucks there I'd like to think I would have slowed down even more. The commentary certainly didn't help. What is it with people who ride around talking shite into a recording device? I'd rather listen to my engine/exhaust when riding than myself or any other bugger for that matter.

Probably.

[BoristheBiter]

It is surprising, how little the rider seemed to slow down. But looking at the damage to the bike, I doubt he'd have been doing 30k's at the point of impact. Didn't even break the headlights.

I think you lot are being overly critical of the guy.

See doesn't that feel better? just a little more now.....

[Gremlin]

It is surprising, how little the rider seemed to slow down. But looking at the damage to the bike, I doubt he'd have been doing 30k's at the point of impact. Didn't even break the headlights.

I think you lot are being overly critical of the guy.
I'm going through advanced rider training, based off the UK Police Rider training. One of the hardest parts is being able to talk your way through your riding, what you are observing etc. It sounds easy but far harder in practise.

I could not hold any dialogue about something else while going through that scenario other than dialogue related to my observations of the road and hazards. The fact he was means he was not concentrating on the situation at hand. I'm not trying to bash him at all, but it's an excellent learning scenario for riders. Unfortunately, he's had to go through the pain of that, but hopefully for the benefit of others.

[James Deuce]

I would have missed both trucks and hit a cow.

[Madness]

I would have missed both trucks and hit the only cow within a 150km radius.

Fixed that for you James.

[chasio]

An instant "oh fuck, look at this lot" reaction.

Exactly, I'd be dropping a cog, covering the brake (or gently applying it) doing the SMIDSY identification & avoidance manoeuvre and shutting the hell up so I could concentrate. I voted "probably" as I hope I'd have managed to do it but as others have said, if my mindset was wrong I'd probably have ended up on the deck. There but for my own powers of concentration and control (the grace of God is not the real issue) go I.

[Lozza2442]

I would have missed both trucks and hit a cow.

The cow had it comin.

[Madness]

I'd be doing the SMIDSY identification & avoidance manoeuvre.

:facepalm:

I'd have hit high beam instead.

[willytheekid]

Yak yak yak yak yak yak yak BAMMO!

Turn the volume WAY up....listen to the revs!...guy dosn't slow down that much (to busy listening to his own voice to focus 100%?...dunno)

Two heavy arsed trucks at one intersection, and both turning!....damn straight "I" would slow the hell down and ENSURE they can see me(flick the highbeem a few times)...But in saying that...I honestly don't know if I could have avoided that one...I would bloody HOPE I could (cos that looked friggin painful!)....but that truck didn't leave much time for reaction at all :no:

I feel for the poor bugger, after all...he didn't do anything wrong (legally), that truckie was clearly negligent! (And came damn close to killing someone!)
...but at the end of the day...the motorcyclist is the only one left lying on the road broken...trucks etc tend to do that to ya.(and cars, and vans, and...), hence we can only ever "try our best" to avoid these sort of accidents...but they do sadly happen :yes:
Im just glad glad the guy is still with us...it could have been ALOT worse:crazy:

Ride safe Kbers :love:

[Drew]

See doesn't that feel better? just a little more now.....Ok, but just this once.


I'm going through advanced rider training, based off the UK Police Rider training. One of the hardest parts is being able to talk your way through your riding, what you are observing etc. It sounds easy but far harder in practise.

I could not hold any dialogue about something else while going through that scenario other than dialogue related to my observations of the road and hazards. The fact he was means he was not concentrating on the situation at hand. I'm not trying to bash him at all, but it's an excellent learning scenario for riders. Unfortunately, he's had to go through the pain of that, but hopefully for the benefit of others.

Do you talk to passengers when you're driving a car? Same thing isn't it? He wasn't blithering on about anything else once the truck started moving, so what you're saying about dialogue is moot.

The guy was pootling along, and felt perfectly safe giving his little political speal or whatever it was. That he was barely moving when he hit the truck, goes to show he very nearly avoided the crash, and if he'd had more wits about him would have easily made it round the left hand turn if he'd thought about it.

The way he got his jacket and helmet off, but wouldn't get up, leads me to think of soccer players taking a fall for a penalty more than injuries.

The truck driver is totally to blame for the incident, and the biker was doing nothing wrong to contribute.

[Katman]

and the biker was doing nothing wrong to contribute.

He may have been doing nothing legally wrong Drew but he certainly still contributed.

[BoristheBiter]

He may have been doing nothing legally wrong Drew but he certainly still contributed.

yeah he was riding on the road, if he wanted to avoid it he should have walked.
Or at least have a dirt bike, then he can use the green belts, no chance of trucks but watch out for the horse's, walkers, cycleist's.
Fuck that's just as bad as on the road he should have just stayed in bed.

[DEATH_INC.]

I'd have missed them as I would have been going much faster and shot through the gap before the black truck had time to get into my lane..... :yawn:

[Drew]

He may have been doing nothing legally wrong Drew but he certainly still contributed.

We need predictable people around us, gives everyone a sense of security.;)

What did he do to contribute? He failed to just hook left for sure, but that's not a contribution.

[Drew]

I'd have missed them as I would have been going much faster and shot through the gap before the black truck had time to get into my lane..... :yawn:

I'd have hoisted a mono, stood up, and threaded the gap whilst giving the finger.

Each to their own though.

[Gremlin]

Do you talk to passengers when you're driving a car? Same thing isn't it? He wasn't blithering on about anything else once the truck started moving, so what you're saying about dialogue is moot.
Don't drive actually... don't have a car, spend all my time on bikes. And yes, a passenger (or talking to one) can definitely be distracting, so no, it's not moot. A driver has to manage those distractions while staying attentive.

[Drew]

Don't drive actually... don't have a car, spend all my time on bikes. And yes, a passenger (or talking to one) can definitely be distracting, so no, it's not moot. A driver has to manage those distractions while staying attentive.

Alright then if you must be pedantic. Do you talk to drivers when you are in a car?

The fact that he was blithering has nothing to do with anything at all. I talk to myself when I race, and I sing when riding on the road. I don't crash into unexpected things.

[Lozza2442]

I don't crash into unexpected things.

Only expected things?

[Maha]

Don't drive actually... don't have a car, spend all my time on bikes. And yes, a passenger (or talking to one) can definitely be distracting, so no, it's not moot. A driver has to manage those distractions while staying attentive.

I just tell Anne to shut up :sweatdrop ...the non attentive side of me just ''ah ha's'' every 5-6 seconds while concertrating on the road ahead...:yes:
All accidents are avoidable, thats why they are called accidents....the reason they happen on the other hand, is quite clear...someone fucked up.
If they weren't called accidents, they would be called ''on purposes'' and criminal charges could be attributed. (charges are attributed with some accidents)

*non voter.

[caseye]

Sad to say Maha, that these days nearly every "accident' results in a charge of one sort or another being laid.
Part of our gubbermints drive for revenue, along the same lines as ACC, find fault and persecute it, maybe they won't do it again.
Anne, you hear what he said???
Man oh man Maha, yer for it tonight.

[Drew]

Only expected things?I race from time to time. So, yeah. Expected things, like the ground when I fuck it up and chase the front accross the track while inspecting the surface close up.

[Gremlin]

Alright then if you must be pedantic. Do you talk to drivers when you are in a car?
Yes, and that's why I know it's distracting. I have seen things the driver has not, and had to tell them to watch out/stop/whatever... Been told to shut up now and then, so I do.

[Lozza2442]

I race from time to time. So, yeah. Expected things, like the ground when I fuck it up and chase the front accross the track while inspecting the surface close up.

Was it up to code?

[Katman]

What did he do to contribute? He failed to just hook left for sure, but that's not a contribution.

Of course he contributed Drew.

I don't believe he was paying sufficient attention.

If he was, he'd have shut the fuck up right back at the point where he is trying to convince us that he first noticed the trucks at the intersection.

[Drew]

Was it up to code?There is no code, turn one at Puke will illustrate that if you ever go to a race track.

[BoristheBiter]

There is no code, turn one at Puke will illustrate that if you ever go to a race track.

Nothing wrong with turn 1, it just sorts the men from the boys.

[Drew]

Of course he contributed Drew.

I don't believe he was paying sufficient attention.

If he was, he'd have shut the fuck up right back at the point where he is trying to convince us that he first noticed the trucks at the intersection.
We'll just disagree. I'm happy to give him the benefit of the doubt, he did manage to slow down and avoid getting severely fucked up by the looks of it after all.

[Drew]

Nothing wrong with turn 1, it just sorts the men from the boys.I concur, hang a meter or so off the inside white line, and role round with the throttle on a bit and you're golden.

[Lozza2442]

We'll just disagree. I'm happy to give him the benefit of the doubt, he did manage to slow down and avoid getting severely fucked up by the looks of it after all.

You feeling alright there mate? You sure you're not sick?? :sick:

[Drew]

You feeling alright there mate? You sure you're not sick?? :sick:

Piss off!

Better?

[martybabe]

I don't know if I could have avoided that but honestly with that much truckage looming in front of me at an intersection, I would have been travelling much much slower than that fella seemed to be.

I would also have considered taking that left as a get out of Dodge, at my speed it would have been do-able but I have to admit, my slow speed and escape route would have been primarily for the red truck that I perceived as the biggest threat.

Glad the rider is still around, scary shit.

[Lozza2442]

Piss off!

Better?

Yes. It's creepy when you're happy and non trolling. You get laid or something? You're extra happy hahaha

[chasio]

:facepalm:

I'd have hit high beam instead.

Why :facepalm: ?

Personally I find changing my position on the road effective for getting a "pop out" effect and being noticed, m'self. It also doesn't take any of my attention away from the primary controls. YVMV. :)

I agree with those who say that the trucker was at fault and Mr Commentary didn't do much wrong to get that kind of outcome. But then it doesn't take much and this is a reminder to me that I am not immune to diminished attention and that it can have bad consequences.

If I'm honest, I'm also not sure I'd have had the presence of mind to make the left turn. Hopefully that video will increase my chances if something similar ever arises.

[slofox]

I don't know if I could have avoided that but honestly with that much truckage looming in front of me at an intersection, I would have been travelling much much slower than that fella seemed to be.

I would also have considered taking that left as a get out of Dodge, at my speed it would have been do-able but I have to admit, my slow speed and escape route would have been primarily for the red truck that I perceived as the biggest threat.

Glad the rider is still around, scary shit.

For sure. I'd like to think that I could (and should) have avoided that one. Doubt I would have gone into that intersection at all until I knew what all that tonnage was going to do.

Planning for a "get out of dodge" is a good idea.

[p.dath]

Here's a different perspective. He was still alive afterwards. So he did something right ...

[oneofsix]

Here's a different perspective. He was still alive afterwards. So he did something right ...

True, more than one thing actually as you can here in the video. I am not sure if I could have avoided or not as the video changes perspective and given that the black truck had been seen so far back and had been stopped all that time would you really have slowed down more than he did? He wasn't going that fast when hit or the bike and him would have past the truck instead of remaining in front of it. If he had of slowed more couldn't that have been taken as an indication that he was giving way to the truck? Road use is a team event and the team member in the truck failed in his duty of care and use of the road. Whilst the biker may not have done everything that could have been done he did do a reasonable amount.
I've decided I would have avoided the collision because I wouldn't be there, can't afford the airfares and shipping.

[PrincessBandit]

At first sight of truck I'd have been backing off, at sight of second truck I'd have been slowing considerably - dey is big and you nevah know what dey might be concealing (even if it appears they have noticed you).

[Maha]

Sad to say Maha, that these days nearly every "accident' results in a charge of one sort or another being laid.
Part of our gubbermints drive for revenue, along the same lines as ACC, find fault and persecute it, maybe they won't do it again.
Anne, you hear what he said???
Man oh man Maha, yer for it tonight.

2am, you get out of bed to take a piss, you kick the dresser/door or whatever, the blame will be directed at that stupid fucking thing for being there in the first place right?
All sorts of expletives will be heard throughout the house following said kicking...no arguement there?

Could have been avoided by.......turning on the light. :corn:

Anyone involved in an accident will look to attribute blame of anything other than the probability that they played a part in that accident, however small it was.
Inattention to detail is the key phrase.

[Lozza2442]

Is it a coincidence that the first three letters of the word accident are ...ACC? ;)

Not really considering ACC stands for Accident Compensation Corporation ;)

[bogan]

2am, you get out of bed to take a piss, you kick the dresser/door or whatever, the blame will be directed at that stupid fucking thing for being there in the first place right?

I'd blame the cunt that chose the middle of the night to move the furniture around. Although swearing would be replaced by laughter if it was done cleverly

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[Madness]

Personally I find changing my position on the road effective for getting a "pop out" effect and being noticed, m'self. It also doesn't take any of my attention away from the primary controls. YVMV.

I'm pleased for you. Me, I'd prefer to to take actions that will enhance my chances of avoiding a collision, rather than possibly enhance the ability of others to drive less like a fuckwit by seeing something that is already there to be seen. I have on average 1-2 near-SMIDSY's a week when driving the work car with fuckwits not seeing a car coming towards them (2 this week). Do I weave the car within the lane? No, I slow down and sometimes even stop, like I did this week in my own street on the way to work. Treat 'em like they're certifiably blind I say, coz a lot of them sure drive like they are.

Hey, it would be boring if we all agreed though, right?

[Drew]

Do you know what the soft skin in your instep is?

It's a complex locating device for finding stray legos in the dark.

[george formby]

Do you know what the soft skin in your instep is?

It's a complex locating device for finding stray legos in the dark.



:woohoo: That made me larf, cheers.

[Ocean1]

2nd rate video is in no way comparable to being there, but based on what I think I saw I'm pretty sure I would have rolled off the gas and possibly dabbed the brake well before he reacted.

It's almost impossible to think about changing line to a viable bail-out route once the shit hit's the fan, the time to have that sorted is before you need it. I try to keep a wee sub-routine running in the back of my head that continually identifies escape slots, but interestingly on first view of that clip I came up blank. I wasn't actually riding, and that may affect how that works for me, but even on a second look there wasn't actually too many back-up options to pre-asses. I think that's why I felt exposed by the speed, I wanted to brake about where that wet spot was.

[Katman]

Those of you who have answered 'no' should probably consider another form of transport.

[Drew]

Those of you who have answered 'no' should probably consider another form of transport.

You're being an idiot (usually the argumenitive position reserved for me). You have no idea of all the variables, and you're making a very wide generalisation anyway.

[Katman]

You're being an idiot (usually the argumenitive position reserved for me). You have no idea of all the variables, and you're making a very wide generalisation anyway.

Not at all Drew.

Anyone who says "No, I couldn't have avoided that accident" is clearly too lazy to think of ways that the accident might have been avoided.

Did you answer 'No' Drew?

[Geeen]

I would have tried my very best to avoid by slowing and hooking left, BUT, I couldn't say for sure if I would have successfully avoided that one. Camera lenses tend to do fcked up things to depth perception, so we will never really know how much room was actually there.

[Drew]

Not at all Drew.

Anyone who says "No, I couldn't have avoided that accident" is clearly too lazy to think of ways that the accident might have been avoided.

Did you answer 'No' Drew?I did not answer "no". But i'm a god on a bike remember.

[Katman]

I did not answer "no". But i'm a god on a bike remember.

My faith in you is restored.

:love:

[Drew]

My faith in you is restored.

:love:Always just refer to this in future.

[DEATH_INC.]

Those of you who have answered 'no' should probably consider another form of transport.

Woohoo! I get Katman's approval! :facepalm:

[Katman]

Woohoo! I get Katman's approval! :facepalm:

Don't get too excited.

I'm not quite at the stage yet of offering everlasting life.

[James Deuce]

I didn't answer. The only variable considered was the truck.

[Drew]

Woohoo! I get Katman's approval! :facepalm:


Don't get too excited.

I'm not quite at the stage yet of offering everlasting life.I think we had it by default bro. We neither of us, have started a thread blaming a miriade of outside influences for an accident we had.

[BigAl]

Those of you who have answered 'no' should probably consider another form of transport.

Yeah thanks I'm definitely considering a faster bike.

The rider was already going fairly slowly at the time, perhaps he should have stopped and pushed the bike across the intersection:facepalm:

[BoristheBiter]

Those of you who have answered 'no' should probably consider another form of transport.

So what? he should have stopped looked both ways looked again then walked his bike through the intersection even though he was going straight ahead and the trucked had stopped for quite some time?

What a Muppet.

[caseye]

Nup, this rider didn't slow down enough to make sure he was not involved in an accident. It being his "right of way" is NOT the POINT, his life preservation instincts being off is! the point.
Nett result. One broken rider and bike, people standing about, going, oh the poor wee thing.
Proper result, seen it coming, slowed enough to stop if necessary,Wait till you are safe before proceeding.
For fucks sake what is so hard to understand about looking after yourself on a bike.
The alternative is certain death at the hands of other motorists who don't want to be involved in an accident either, it';s just that they don't see us.

[haydes55]

Two heavy arsed trucks at one intersection, and both turning!....damn straight "I" would slow the hell down and ENSURE they can see me(flick the highbeem a few times).


:angry: No no no no. Stupid move flashing your lights at someone waiting at an intersection. Every day I see cars and bikes and truck all flashing their lights as a sort of
message to pull in front of them (i.e. let them through the gap in front of your vehicle).

If you ride towards a truck trying to turn in front of you and you flash your lights, the truckie will say "shit where did that bike come from? Sweet he's flashed his lights to tell me he is stopping to let me through".

If he did see you and then you flashed your lights that's even worse, he will definitely presume you are letting him through.

[ducatilover]

I'd have to answer no and yes, there are two outcomes possible for me

1: I'd try be God like Drew, clutch it up and flip the cunt the...bike.
2: I'd be in my garage having an anxiety attack and not riding (more likely)

I tried to think of a third, but I can't.

He could have avoided it by slowing down lots more and ideally, not hitting the truck.

[Matariki]

Oh man, I've experienced this before on the road. It reminds me of what to me last year when a mobility van pulled out in front of me (ended up smashing my left leg up, contracting necrotizing fasciitis and now I'm living with permanent nerve damage).

If I were in the same situation, I probably would of done he had done (slow down). Although with the knowledge I have now, the second I feel something isn't right or not sure about something; I slow down, indicate, pull over, assess the situation and then wait until I feel its safe to continue riding.

I did notice that he was distracted. His attention wasn't on the road when it should of been, instead he was more focused on talking about a topic that wasn't relevant to the current situation he was in.

@0:21 He states that he saw the lorry through the trees, that should of been his cue to slow down and prepare to stop if necessary.
@0:26 You can see the two lorries, by this stage he should of pulled over. It was clear from the positioning of the lorries that if something wrong did happen (which it did) it wouldn't leave a rider much room for a route out.
@0:28 By this stage it was too late for the rider to respond adequately.

[BoristheBiter]

Don't get too excited.

I'm not quite at the stage yet of offering everlasting life.

So come on then dick what would the mighty Katman have done in this situation?
Oh that's right you are the riding god and would have never been here in the first place.

Thanks for the red :finger: and the horse you rode in on.

You are so far into "the rider should have been able to avoid this" that to actually admit that shit happens would make you even stupider than you do now so you just drivel on.

[Drew]

So come on then dick what would the mighty Katman have done in this situation?
Oh that's right you are the riding god and would have never been here in the first place.

Thanks for the red :finger: and the horse you rode in on.

You are so far into "the rider should have been able to avoid this" that to actually admit that shit happens would make you even stupider than you do now so you just drivel on.I'm the biker god...Cunt.

[Woodman]

The guy never shut up the whole time, even when those little popups stated that he had seen the hazard well before the collision. If i was yakking on a ride (which wouldn't happen) I would have gone all quiet when I first saw the trucks.

Just wondering whether he paid as much attention to the trucks as he leads us to believe?

[nodrog]

why didnt he just turn the corner?

[Drew]

The guy never shut up the whole time, even when those little popups stated that he had seen the hazard well before the collision. If i was yakking on a ride (which wouldn't happen) I would have gone all quiet when I first saw the trucks.

Just wondering whether he paid as much attention to the trucks as he leads us to believe?What I really want to know, is how come there is no wind noise when the dude is riding, when the mic is mounted to the camera?

Must be flash fuckin gear.

[bogan]

I'd have to answer no and yes, there are two outcomes possible for me

1: I'd try be God like Drew, clutch it up and flip the cunt the...bike.
2: I'd be in my garage having an anxiety attack and not riding (more likely)

I tried to think of a third, but I can't.

He could have avoided it by slowing down lots more and ideally, not hitting the truck.

Dude, you missed the most obvious one, dropping a rod back on the straight, pulling over, and watching the next 5 cunts lay it down cos they didn't notice your oil slick :bleh:


I'm the biker god...Cunt.

Biker god, pffft, one of the four horsemen with an upgraded steed sound like a way better plan. Actually, maybe they did upgrade, then didn't ride defensively, got cleaned out by a truck, thus preventing the apocalypse.

[FJRider]

As far as potential hazards go that situation is dripping with them.

The two trucks block off almost all the escape routes and it doesn't appear particularly well lit in amongst the trees.

I'd have been doing whatever it takes to ensure the truck driver spotted me.

It also didn't appear that the motorcyclist slowed down noticeably.

Even a headlight ON might have helped ... But the "I have right of way, so Im OK" attitude persists. After all ... what could go wrong ... ???

[James Deuce]

why didnt he just turn the corner?
What he said. Target fixation is a bitch.

[Nova.]

m8 woulda just blipped the throttle got the ass end loose and drifted around him, simple :weird:

[Ocean1]

why didnt he just turn the corner?

I reckon at the time that truck moved he was going too fast to make that stick. That's also the bit of real estate the truck is looking to ocupy, a better bet might have been to take an off-road option to the right of the black truck.

But I've been wrong before.








Once, back in '74.

[willytheekid]

:angry: No no no no. Stupid move flashing your lights at someone waiting at an intersection. Every day I see cars and bikes and truck all flashing their lights as a sort of
message to pull in front of them (i.e. let them through the gap in front of your vehicle).

If you ride towards a truck trying to turn in front of you and you flash your lights, the truckie will say "shit where did that bike come from? Sweet he's flashed his lights to tell me he is stopping to let me through".

If he did see you and then you flashed your lights that's even worse, he will definitely presume you are letting him through.

:facepalm:
I'm not certainly NOT following a couple of low-beam to high-beam flashes with a "wave through"

Because people do exactly what you described to "attract the other drivers attention"...so they can THEN wave them through!(or point out there lights are full beam, or there car is on fire, or an axe wielding maniac is standing on the roof etc etc)

...Its kinda why ambulances and firetrucks and police vehicles flash there lights...it sure in hell is NOT a signal to say "after you hayden"...its a signal to HAVE YOU SEEN ME??

...please don't buy a truck!:laugh:

[Madness]

The whole flashing of headlights to "wave people through" has reduced significantly now that the give way rules have changed. It was predominantly used on accasions where a left-turning vehicle had to give way to a right-turning vehicle and the right-turner wasn't paying attention. I'm assuming the video was shot in the U.K where they have the same give way rules as we do now. It's not like the bike was in a slow moving column of traffic either, where a flash of the headlights could have been interpreted as being "let in" contrary to the right of way.

I'm not trying to advocate the high frequency flashing of headlights in situations like this but the use of high beam makes a lot more sense to me than weaving in order to try & get noticed. It all falls short when compared to slowing down to a speed where you can take emergency evasive action if required.

[JimO]

who else noticed that camera landed in exactly the right spot

[george formby]

:facepalm:
I'm not certainly NOT following a couple of low-beam to high-beam flashes with a "wave through"

Because people do exactly what you described to "attract the other drivers attention"...so they can THEN wave them through!(or point out there lights are full beam, or there car is on fire, or an axe wielding maniac is standing on the roof etc etc)

...Its kinda why ambulances and firetrucks and police vehicles flash there lights...it sure in hell is NOT a signal to say "after you hayden"...its a signal to HAVE YOU SEEN ME??

...please don't buy a truck!:laugh:

Er, no. In the UK, a high beam flash is a "courtesy flash". It is taught to mean " I can see you", implying you are ready for what the other vehicle is going to do next. Often used to allow vehicles into or out of a junction on a busy road. In the riders case it would imply to the truckie that he is being allowed to turn.

[Katman]

So come on then dick what would the mighty Katman have done in this situation?
Oh that's right you are the riding god and would have never been here in the first place.

Thanks for the red :finger: and the horse you rode in on.

You are so far into "the rider should have been able to avoid this" that to actually admit that shit happens would make you even stupider than you do now so you just drivel on.

Hey, I'm not the only one who thinks he probably could have done a better job.

In fact, you and Bigal are just about the only ones in this thread too lazy to consider how the situation could have turned out differently.

[george formby]

Some inspiration for any riders reading this thread questioning how they would react.

Counter steering / swerve (http://youtu.be/iEKdFNpsz48)

This can be refined to make the turn(s) faster, sensible thing to practice IMHO. On most bikes I reckon you can move left or right at least 3 mtrs for every 10 mtrs traveled forward at about 50 kmh. No doubt further with practice.

Not starting another debate but this could be useful for fledgling riders.

[willytheekid]

Er, no. In the UK, a high beam flash is a "courtesy flash". It is taught to mean " I can see you", implying you are ready for what the other vehicle is going to do next. Often used to allow vehicles into or out of a junction on a busy road. In the riders case it would imply to the truckie that he is being allowed to turn.

Er...we are not in the UK!(I wasn't referring to the situation in the vid...just NZ road rules & personal safety)
Personally...I ignore "courtesy give ways" and stick to the road code rules...one person telling me they will give way doesn't make it legal...or safe!, as every other road user is only aware of the road rules!...not the guy in front flashing his lights being "polite" and waving me through (I don't rely or trust upon other road users to determine my safety while riding)

[Katman]

You are so far into "the rider should have been able to avoid this" that to actually admit that shit happens would make you even stupider than you do now so you just drivel on.

I bet as a kid when you used to play soldiers with your mates you were to first to always lie down and play dead.

[george formby]

Er...we are not in the UK!(I wasn't referring to the situation in the vid...just NZ road rules & personal safety)
Personally...I ignore "courtesy give ways" and stick to the road code rules...one person telling me they will give way doesn't make it legal...or safe!, as every other road user is only aware of the road rules!...not the guy in front flashing his lights being "polite" and waving me through (I don't rely or trust upon other road users to determine my safety while riding)

Well spotted! And I agree, even in the UK I take a courtesy flash with a pinch of salt. Neverthless, a courtesy flash often works on our confused roads to ease the flow, I sometimes get the finger too, such is life.

[James Deuce]

I reckon at the time that truck moved he was going too fast to make that stick. That's also the bit of real estate the truck is looking to ocupy, a better bet might have been to take an off-road option to the right of the black truck.



Yeah, I thought that too and then remembered what happened the one time I tried that - didn't fall off but did bang the left clip-on into the car's a-pillar because the person turning right freaked when I went down the left-hand side of their vehicle and panic braked to a stop. If they'd kept going I would have been fine.

As you said, that truck takes up a lot of space and the bike would've ended up in the ditch or hedge on the right cos the truck driver could almost be guaranteed to stop.

[BigAl]

In fact, you and Bigal are just about the only ones in this thread too lazy to consider how the situation could have turned out differently.

Mmmmm, 8+14(current poll counts) imply contrary, Steve.

In hindsight there may be ways to have avoided this situation, I say 'no' to the avoidance question because; I would have definitely slowed, saw 2 trucks stopped apparently giving way, then just entering the intersection the bastard turns in front.

Maybe with good reflexes and covering the front brake one might have been able to stop in time but shit it happened fast.

On another matter, want to go hunting sometime? :yes:

[Katman]

Mmmmm, 8+14(current poll counts) imply contrary, Steve.



Well actually Al, I'm going to consider those 14 who answered with 'probably not' as at least giving the situation some degree of thought.

There's probably not much hope for the 8 who answered 'no'.

[Ocean1]

Some inspiration for any riders reading this thread questioning how they would react.

Counter steering / swerve (http://youtu.be/iEKdFNpsz48)

This can be refined to make the turn(s) faster, sensible thing to practice IMHO. On most bikes I reckon you can move left or right at least 3 mtrs for every 10 mtrs traveled forward at about 50 kmh. No doubt further with practice.

Not starting another debate but this could be useful for fledgling riders.

I've got a couple of problems with that.

First, countersteering isn't counter-intuitive like the dude says, most of us did it the very first time we slung a leg over a bike of any sort.

Second. It can't be refined. Given a particular speed and a given shove on teh bars the bike will adopt a specific lean which will result in a known turn radius. Nor is this an option, if you want to turn a bike so much you will countersteer accordingly.

Third, while I don't doubt your swerve distance estimates the fact is that in order to get the bike to lean, say left, (so as to turn turn left) you actually steered the bike right, the wheels stepping out a fair bit in order to do it. If you're hoping to miss an on-comming car or truck approaching from the right you've just narrowed the gap by a metre.

It's a bitch, that you've actually got to get closer to danger in order to get away from it, but that's the way it works. It'a also a very good reason to practice emergency braking.

[Madness]

On another matter, want to go hunting sometime? :yes:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-4Yvef_EaZ2E/TZBz_7DlFnI/AAAAAAAAAAU/NPzYl8xqYGM/s1600/Elmer_Fudd_A_Wild_Hare1.jpg

[george formby]

I've got a couple of problems with that.

First, countersteering isn't counter-intuitive like the dude says, most of us did it the very first time we slung a leg over a bike of any sort.

Second. It can't be refined. Given a particular speed and a given shove on teh bars the bike will adopt a specific lean which will result in a known turn radius. Nor is this an option, if you want to turn a bike so much you will countersteer accordingly.

Third, while I don't doubt your swerve distance estimates the fact is that in order to get the bike to lean, say left, (so as to turn turn left) you actually steered the bike right, the wheels stepping out a fair bit in order to do it. If you're hoping to miss an on-comming car or truck approaching from the right you've just narrowed the gap by a metre.

It's a bitch, that you've actually got to get closer to danger in order to get away from it, but that's the way it works. It'a also a very good reason to practice emergency braking.

That vid is a very good reason to practice all the techniques which save your bacon. The practice we did involved more than counter steering. Weighting the foot rests, head turn hip swivel etc. The practice refines your reaction time & the tightness of the turn, same as braking practice, you load up quicker & brake harder when you practice it
In the vid, IF he was a tad slower & a tad more to the left then swerving COULD have been an option.
Any hoo, it's moot. I only posted that as assistant for riders who may not have had the opportunity to practice it.

[Ocean1]

As you said, that truck takes up a lot of space and the bike would've ended up in the ditch or hedge on the right cos the truck driver could almost be guaranteed to stop.

Still a good option, they tend to be a tad softer than trucks.

But yes, between hyper-focusing on the truck and having less than a second to peruse softer options it's no surprise that in such situations sometimes we make bad choices. Darwin's got a lot to answer for.

[Ocean1]

Any hoo, it's moot. I only posted that as assistant for riders who may not have had the opportunity to practice it.

As did I. It's also instructive to watch how far your front wheel fucks off to the right next time you hang a left.

[haydes55]

:facepalm:
I'm not certainly NOT following a couple of low-beam to high-beam flashes with a "wave through"

Because people do exactly what you described to "attract the other drivers attention"...so they can THEN wave them through!(or point out there lights are full beam, or there car is on fire, or an axe wielding maniac is standing on the roof etc etc)

...Its kinda why ambulances and firetrucks and police vehicles flash there lights...it sure in hell is NOT a signal to say "after you hayden"...its a signal to HAVE YOU SEEN ME??

...please don't buy a truck!:laugh:

My job involves driving daily through traffic all over Waikato, I see people flashing their lights to let someone in several times a day without even moving in side their car. My driveway is behind a cue of cars during rush hour, which I come through every day, the only way I can get home is if someone leaves me a gap. 9 times out of 10 a driver will eventually leave a gap and flick their lights. Maybe one time out of 10 they will actually wave.

Maybe it's a Waikato thing?

[FJRider]

Well actually Al, I'm going to consider those 14 who answered with 'probably not' as at least giving the situation some degree of thought.

There's probably not much hope for the 8 who answered 'no'.

Where is the "I would like to think I could" option ... ??? or should that option replace the "probably" option ... ???

As for that 8 ... :facepalm:

[Katman]

Where is the "I would like to think I could" option ... ??? or should that option replace the "probably" option ... ???

As for that 8 ... :facepalm:

In an uncharacteristic moment of self-doubt I actually answered 'probably'.

I'm extremely heartened by the fact that so many have answered 'yes' though.

[FJRider]

In an uncharacteristic moment of self-doubt I actually answered 'probably'.

I'm extremely heartened by the fact that so many have answered 'yes' though.

Thinking positively is the first step. Acting positively is the bit that takes skill and perserverence ... to remain intact and upright.

[mossy1200]

He had a world of time to turn left.
Sorry but he wasnt up to task or taking enough care.
Its not like a deer jumped out of the woods at him.:weird:

[Road kill]

I think I would of avoided that.

The rider saw the truck and seems to have taken no action.

I treat all intersections and all other traffic as a possible,and I always back off just a little and start thinking about those possibles.

This rider looks like he went into it without doing anything at all.

The truckie stopped looking once he felt he was ok.

Passing through intersections while in my own truck I keep doing head checks in very direction until I'm well through,,,this guy was in the wrong job,,probably better off kickin' stones.

Seeing this sort of thing pisses me off more than anything,both on a Professional level and also because it was so avoidable by both parties.

[Matariki]

why didnt he just turn the corner?

If you watch the video again, the truck was turning into the corner, pretty much taking up most of the road. Considering where the rider was located on the road when it clicked into his mind what was happening, the chances of him turning successfully into the corner were slim. Reaction time in most people is 1 to 2 seconds, so looking at the video again, from the time he realized what was happening to him and hitting the truck was about 1.5 seconds. In those 1.5 seconds he would of had to mentally react to the situation, slow down and pinpoint an escape route. I know for me it would of taken me 2.5 seconds to have done all of that. So yeah, slowing down as aggressively he could was probably the best course of action (though its hard to tell in the video whether or not he was going to take the corner or weave around the oncoming truck and go straight through, probably the later).

[Katman]

Considering where the rider was located on the road when it clicked into his mind what was happening, the chances of him turning successfully into the corner were slim.

That possible escape scenario should have entered his head the moment he saw the trucks - well before the black one moved.

Once the idea is already there, executing it becomes relatively simple.

[Matariki]

That possible escape scenario should have entered his head the moment he saw the trucks - well before the black one moved.

Once the idea is already there, executing it becomes relatively simple.

Yep, I agree. That's why he should of slowed down as soon as he saw the trucks through the trees. It would of given him far more time to react.

[george formby]

Yep, I agree. That's why he should of slowed down as soon as he saw the trucks through the trees. It would of given him far more time to react.

There's the nub, a bit more to the left, a bit slower, a bit more focus & it could have been a win not a bin. The impact was pretty slow. I think the running commentary had him a bit preoccupied, mid sentence he yelps & the bike does not seem to veer or dip at all, the front of that truck is a real attention grabber.

[FJRider]

From the time he realized what was happening to him and hitting the truck was about 1.5 seconds. In those 1.5 seconds he would of had to mentally react to the situation, slow down and pinpoint an escape route. I know for me it would of taken me 2.5 seconds to have done all of that.

He was pre-occupied with his commentary ... which was probably as bad as making a phone call (hands free or not) and expected everybody else to obey the rules of the road. They didn't. For whatever the reason the truckie didn't .... and it matters little why he didn't. Too late to consider why ... afterwards.

The one assumption that I can agree with is ... the assumption that everybody else is out to get you. It will add minutes to your travel time ... but may add years to your life. Or at least save you money ... and blood.

[sleemanj]

If you ride towards a truck trying to turn in front of you and you flash your lights, the truckie will say "shit where did that bike come from? Sweet he's flashed his lights to tell me he is stopping to let me through".


+1 on this. Bad idea to give any sort of "hey I'm here" signal to a driver at an intersection that might possibly be construed as "go ahead", that includes flashing your lights and tooting your horn, it's just too risky that they will misinterpret it in my opinion.

Moving about on the road (while slowing down until you're SURE they saw you) much better idea, it's easier for the driver to see you if you move about rather than come directly towards them.

[Katman]

Moving about on the road (while slowing down until you're SURE they saw you) much better idea, it's easier for the driver to see you if you move about rather than come directly towards them.

Especially if the headlight is on already.

[nodrog]

If you watch the video again, the truck was turning into the corner, pretty much taking up most of the road. Considering where the rider was located on the road when it clicked into his mind what was happening, the chances of him turning successfully into the corner were slim. Reaction time in most people is 1 to 2 seconds, so looking at the video again, from the time he realized what was happening to him and hitting the truck was about 1.5 seconds. In those 1.5 seconds he would of had to mentally react to the situation, slow down and pinpoint an escape route. I know for me it would of taken me 2.5 seconds to have done all of that. So yeah, slowing down as aggressively he could was probably the best course of action (though its hard to tell in the video whether or not he was going to take the corner or weave around the oncoming truck and go straight through, probably the later).

if he turned the handlebars instead of screaming like a bitch, he would have made it, piece of piss.

[schrodingers cat]

He wasn't blithering on about anything else once the truck started moving, so what you're saying about dialogue is moot.

The guy was pootling along, and felt perfectly safe giving his little political spiel or whatever it was. That he was barely moving when he hit the truck, goes to show he very nearly avoided the crash, and if he'd had more wits about him would have easily made it round the left hand turn if he'd thought about it.



Talking endless shit like he was meant he wasn't given the situation enough attention when he needed to. For sure the truck blinker was appplied late but the question from the OP isn't who's fault it is, rather 'Could you have avoided this bin?'

For me, I'm going to say emphatically MAYBE:facepalm:

Anyway Drew, the guy sounds like a fucking moron in any case

[James Deuce]

Anyway Drew, the guy sounds like a fucking moron in any case

He is not a moron. He's gone out of his way to understand his accident and posted his shortcomings on the Internet for goodness sake. He's one of the least deserving recipients of the title "moron" ever. Previously over-confident, now repentant better describes him.

[mossy1200]

Hey sorry guys but if you cant back yourself to perform if required then you are riding above your limits or without thinking about the task.
If you hadnt put your hands over the brake and clutch and change down a gear when coming across that situation then you need to think about the damage a large object will cause.
Idd have my brakes on before shit could leave my mouth and idd be aiming to turn the instant the truck turned. All this 1.5secs stuff is bollocks as when riding into that situation you should already be in reaction mode.

If you answered you couldnt avoid then you need to make a few changes to the way you ride so that you can back yourself and increase your chances of making it home.

The guy was an epic fail. Hes in a dream world and not doing himself any favours with the distraction of the camera. If anything he should have been saying trucks ahead ill be taking care now and been ready to react. Shouting shit wont make it hurt less.

Edit- Anyone siting on a start grid ready to react to the lights wont take 1.5secs to leave the line when lights go out. Why? Because they are ready to react. The rider should have been in the same state arriving at a intersection full of stationary trucks. Indicator isnt a factor. If the truck wasnt going to turn it wouldnt have been stationary at the corner. Assumption driver has seen you is a pathetic excuss for getting hurt.

[Matariki]

if he turned the handlebars instead of screaming like a bitch, he would have made it, piece of piss.

Everybody reacts different when they see danger. I remember before I crashed I said "SHIT". Speaking of crashing (or near hits), have you ever been in this sort of situation before?
Because I'm trying to figure out whether or not I should take this post seriously.

[ducatilover]

Dude, you missed the most obvious one, dropping a rod back on the straight, pulling over, and watching the next 5 cunts lay it down cos they didn't notice your oil slick :bleh:


:laugh: That's entirely plausible and the carnage would be excellent

[FJRider]

Because I'm trying to figure out whether or not I should take this post seriously.

This is KB ... take posts seriously at your own risk.

[koba]

I haven't read this thread but an interesting thing is I miss-read the title as "Would" rather than "Could" on this basis I blinged Kiwifruit saying "no" however the C/W thing makes quite a difference; Could I have avoided it? Yes, WOULD I have avoided it? Possibly but very probably wouldn't have.

[koba]

Edit- Anyone siting on a start grid ready to react to the lights wont take 1.5secs to leave the line when lights go out. Why? Because they are ready to react.

Supposed to be about .3 of a sec in that situation innit?

EDIT: No-one road rides in that state all the time, every time.

[Ocean1]

Supposed to be about .3 of a sec in that situation innit?

EDIT: No-one road rides in that state all the time, every time.

See for yourself: http://www.humanbenchmark.com/tests/reactiontime/index.php

[Berries]

Everybody reacts different when they see danger.
Yeah, but in this example the rider did not see any danger until the truck pulled out in front of him and by then it is far too late.

It is one thing having a video mounted on your bike/person while out for a fang. It is quite another to be recording some kind of political commentary about people shoplifting steak. What the fuck was all that about? His mind was clearly not on riding regardless of what the little text boxes said.

Could I have avoided it? Who knows. I imagine I would have scrubbed off a lot more speed than he did faced with a truck that was going to turn right and the possibility of some idiot pulling out to overtake him but my main threat would have been the red truck and what to do if he pulled out. The closer you get the more of your escape route gets blocked until you are pretty much out of options. If your mind is on steak and not the fuck off big truck about to wipe you out then your options are going to run out that much sooner.

[mossy1200]

Supposed to be about .3 of a sec in that situation innit?

EDIT: No-one road rides in that state all the time, every time.

Seeing 2 trucks at a t intersection on the open road my butt is clenched and im in reaction state.
90% of the time im riding 2 up with the wife on the back. I owe it to her and myself to slow down and get ready if it even smells like another road user could effect an outcome during my ride.

[Macontour]

As a truck and tour coach driver I am often "flashed" out of side roads or when wishing to change lanes in heavy traffic or whatever, usually with no other signal, and I also often flash people the same way and only once has the flashed headlights not meant "I'm letting you go ahead of me.

I would always interpret the flash as an indication that someone was giving way to me.

[Madness]

I would always interpret the flash as an indication that someone was giving way to me.

And if a motorcyclist was coming towards you with no traffic in front of them at a decent speed and simply put their light on full beam rather than flashing?

[BoristheBiter]

Hey, I'm not the only one who thinks he probably could have done a better job.

In fact, you and Bigal are just about the only ones in this thread too lazy to consider how the situation could have turned out differently.

You are such a cock. you make any old shit up, how do you know what I have considered?


I bet as a kid when you used to play soldiers with your mates you were to first to always lie down and play dead.

Did you have to have to go away and think of something witty to write down did you?

You still haven't answered the question or is it the fact you would have no fucking idea as you spend most of your time on here being the keyboard warrior you are so well known for, unlike the rest of us that get out and ride.

[BoristheBiter]

I'm the biker god...Cunt.

Well we know that but pussyman seems he wants a shot at your title.

[Maha]

The guy never shut up the whole time, even when those little popups stated that he had seen the hazard well before the collision. If i was yakking on a ride (which wouldn't happen) I would have gone all quiet when I first saw the trucks.

Just wondering whether he paid as much attention to the trucks as he leads us to believe?

Agreed..as I said in an earlier post...

''Anyone involved in an accident will look to attribute blame of anything other than the probability that, thier actions played a part in said accident, however small it was.
Inattention to detail is the key phrase''.

Any distraction inside your helmet (other than your own thoughts) can be a hazzard.

[scumdog]

The truck driver needs shot with a ball of his own shit - he had ONE lane to worry about and he couldn't even manage that!

And the rider was a tad blase' as earlier on with the side road etc I would not have been going quite as quick - and on seeing the trucks the alarm bells would have been screaming, I would had been hard on the anchors as I approached them.

Rider put too much 'trust' in everybody else doing as he wanted/expected.

[YellowDog]

Great Video!!!

It was unlucky that the ShitForBrains driving the truck attepted murder.

I can't say for certainty that I could have avoided this.

BUT , I may have avoided this for FOUR reasons:

1. Since the age of 16, I have managed to get in the habit of a precautionary 'Parp Parp' for such, and many other situations.
2. Since the age of 16, I have managed to get in the habit of - No eye contact with the stationary vehicle attempting murder, prepare to stop!
3. I would have slowed more than the rider did on this straight road with the very clearly visible hazard.
4. I have ABS brakes and from considerable experience of their incredible capabilities AND with being at a lower speed.........

Most motorcycling accidents in dry conditions are avoidable.

Hope the injuries were not too severe and that this has been a life saving lesson and a valuable experience for the future.

Good luck and ride safely.

[BoristheBiter]

That possible escape scenario should have entered his head the moment he saw the trucks - well before the black one moved.

Once the idea is already there, executing it becomes relatively simple.

Well come on then. You're quick with red today but not with an answer to the question?

[BoristheBiter]

Especially if the headlight is on already.

So I want to know from you is you think every crash avoidable?

And so you think all those do crash are to blame as they should have been riding better?

Yes or no?

[Katman]

So come on then dick what would the mighty Katman have done in this situation?


I'd have had my headlight on for a start.

Then I'd have shut the fuck up as soon as I saw the trucks at the intersection and started considering possible situation outcomes.

I'd have also slowed considerably further than this rider did.

[Katman]

So I want to know from you is you think every crash avoidable?

And so you think all those do crash are to blame as they should have been riding better?

Yes or no?

I have never said every crash is avoidable. (Certainly the vast majority of them are though).

But every crash should be examined to see how better management could have changed the outcome.

You're clearly still too caught up with the idea of 'blame' rather than considering how different actions can influence outcome.

[Tony.OK]

At 27 sec he did something weird, I was thinking to myself "stay well left" then he suddenly drifts a bit right? Almost like he looked at the truck so rode that way?
I'd like to think I'd be thinking to stay well left for 1st truck then be prepared to swerve right for 2nd (red) truck. That and I'd be wondering "where the hell is Drew gonna be mono'ing past me?"

[nodrog]

...... Speaking of crashing (or near hits), have you ever been in this sort of situation before? .

yes, but far worser.

[Drew]

How fast does everyone think the dude was going?

He barely touched the bloody truck, his speed nipple was hardly damaged at all. If he had cottoned on to the situation earlier, he'd have come to a stop and been giving the lorry (it's pommy so use the right lingo fuck ya's), the big finger and yelling abuse.

It was more than avoidable, but the outcome of that accident was so bloody minor I dunno what all the fuss is about.

Tony, I'd have monoed by you before we even saw the truck, looks cooler to do that shit on a bend.

[Katman]

How fast does everyone think the dude was going?



Clearly, just a little bit too fast.

[Drew]

Clearly, just a little bit too fast.Or too slow, he'd have breazed between them if he was twenty k's faster.

[Maha]

He'd have avoided the accident if he had left home a few miniutes earlier, the time that it took him to set up recording bullshit he uses...

[Katman]

Or too slow, he'd have breazed between them if he was twenty k's faster.

There were probably a few options to choose from Drew.

Pity he was too distracted to be able to choose any of them.

[scumdog]

Or too slow, he'd have breazed between them if he was twenty k's faster.

Or he wouldn't have had to worry about them at all if he wasn't there...

And breeze does not have an 'a' in it.

Fucksakes.

[James Deuce]

Or he wouldn't have had to worry about them at all if he wasn't there...

And breeze does not have an 'a' in it.

Fucksakes.

He's from Upper Hutt, give him a break!

[actungbaby]

. .

that made me feel quite sick watching that werid how in those few seconds you seem just accept your going hit the vechile aghh not good

memorys , id whould when sent alarm bells when i looked twon trucks close toghter like that , the dude in truck that pulled out may thought

I better get around so other guy can go . I like everone else thinks talking and making this video was distraction, but once was that close

there not much chance to stop or slow the bike.

[FJRider]

Pity he was too distracted to be able to choose any of them.

He should have been looking for dodgy drivers to film ... he would have noticed sooner ... <_<

[haydes55]

. .

that made me feel quite sick watching that werid how in those few seconds you seem just accept your going hit the vechile aghh not good

memorys , id whould when sent alarm bells when i looked twon trucks close toghter like that , the dude in truck that pulled out may thought

I better get around so other guy can go . I like everone else thinks talking and making this video was distraction, but once was that close

there not much chance to stop or slow the bike.



And breeze does not have an 'a' in it.

Fucksakes.

There you go Grammar Nazi, have fun :Police:

[Daffyd]

who else noticed that camera landed in exactly the right spot

Me! Me! Me!

[chasio]

I'm pleased for you. Me, I'd prefer to to take actions that will enhance my chances of avoiding a collision, rather than possibly enhance the ability of others to drive less like a fuckwit by seeing something that is already there to be seen. I have on average 1-2 near-SMIDSY's a week when driving the work car with fuckwits not seeing a car coming towards them (2 this week). Do I weave the car within the lane? No, I slow down and sometimes even stop, like I did this week in my own street on the way to work. Treat 'em like they're certifiably blind I say, coz a lot of them sure drive like they are.

Hey, it would be boring if we all agreed though, right?

If you read it again you'll notice I didn't say that was all I'd do, just that I wouldn't include the full beam option as I have found the weave effective in similar circumstances (e.g. not at full tilt, as indeed he wasn't). We agree about most of that lot and I do (and have done) the same, including coming to a stop. Now come here and give us all a :hug:

[Drew]

Or he wouldn't have had to worry about them at all if he wasn't there...

And breeze does not have an 'a' in it.

Fucksakes.

I get "fucksakes" for miss spelling a word now?

I really can't be upsetting you enough these days snake!

[FJRider]

Me! Me! Me!

And you would also have noticed the filming stopped 6 meters out from the truck, and started again on the ground. In just the right position.

It stated at the start the vid was for educational purposes ...

[scumdog]

I get "fucksakes" for miss spelling a word now?

I really can't be upsetting you enough these days snake!

No ding-a-ling, you get fucksake for suggesting 'if he had had been'...

'IF' shouldn't come into it - he WASN'T going faster so he WASN'T past the scene of the crash.

Thats why I made my comment...

I'm off to steady my nerves and reduce my blood-pressure with a nice bourbon,

[Drew]

And you would also have noticed the filming stopped 6 meters out from the truck, and started again on the ground. In just the right position.

It stated at the start the vid was for educational purposes ...I just watched it again.

You're smoking too much crack again man.

[Drew]

No ding-a-ling, you get fucksake for suggesting 'if he had had been'...

'IF' shouldn't come into it - he WASN'T going faster so he WASN'T past the scene of the crash.

Thats why I made my comment...

I'm off to steady my nerves and reduce my blood-pressure with a nice bourbon,The thread discussion is entirely hypothetical (sp), how does "if" not come into it?

"Ding-a-ling". Indeed!

[Macontour]

And if a motorcyclist was coming towards you with no traffic in front of them at a decent speed and simply put their light on full beam rather than flashing?

Granted, in that situation I would most likely stay where I was, if it was just a change to high beam, no other traffic and the rider did not appear to be about to deviate from his path. Also, as a biker I am possibly more aware however if the rider was slowing and flashed high beam on and off, it could be easy to misinterpret that.

[The Pastor]

He wasnt going very fast, and I think, while its possible that it could be avoided (hindsight is awesome isnt it), that most people would of ended up the same.

What he should of done, is been riding faster, he would of got through that intersection before the truck started to turn.

SORTED.

[YellowDog]

Was this a real video, or was it made in a software studio app?

The camera rolling and its final resting place, being bang on the action, are quite suspect to me?

[FJRider]

He wasnt going very fast, and I think, while its possible that it could be avoided (hindsight is awesome isnt it), that most people would of ended up the same.

What he should of done, is been riding faster, he would of got through that intersection before the truck started to turn.

SORTED.

Another 10 km/hr from the start of the vid would have had him through the intersection before the truck got there ...

And if it was raining ... he would still be at home when the truck started to turn.

If .... :shutup:

[george formby]

After perusing the video, voicing my own thoughts on the matter & enjoying the bracing & vigorous discussion which has ensued I'm left with one question.

Whats a "speed nipple", Drew?

[FJRider]

After perusing the video, voicing my own thoughts on the matter & enjoying the bracing & vigorous discussion which has ensued I'm left with one question.

Whats a "speed nipple", Drew?


Got cold enough to freeze your tit's ...

[scumdog]

Was this a real video, or was it made in a software studio app?

The camera rolling and its final resting place, being bang on the action, are quite suspect to me?

Yup, didn't ring true with me either..:shifty:

[James Deuce]

Was this a real video, or was it made in a software studio app?

The camera rolling and its final resting place, being bang on the action, are quite suspect to me?

Nah, anything that you post on the Internet that's going to have people calling you a "moron" always works out perfectly like that.

[idb]

As far as potential hazards go that situation is dripping with them.

The two trucks block off almost all the escape routes and it doesn't appear particularly well lit in amongst the trees.

I'd have been doing whatever it takes to ensure the truck driver spotted me.

It also didn't appear that the motorcyclist slowed down noticeably.


I'd have been doing whatever it takes to ensure the truck driver spotted me.

The official Kiwibiker wave would have attracted his attention!

[Drew]

After perusing the video, voicing my own thoughts on the matter & enjoying the bracing & vigorous discussion which has ensued I'm left with one question.

Whats a "speed nipple", Drew?Triumph Speed Triple.

[James Deuce]

Triumph Speed Triple.
That's a point to remember actually, as if it had been a Street Triple he would have been a long way past that intersection before those trucks met there and he wouldn't have been making political comments, he would have been too busy giggling manically.

[BoristheBiter]

I'd have had my headlight on for a start.

Then I'd have shut the fuck up as soon as I saw the trucks at the intersection and started considering possible situation outcomes.

I'd have also slowed considerably further than this rider did.


I have never said every crash is avoidable. (Certainly the vast majority of them are though).

But every crash should be examined to see how better management could have changed the outcome.

You're clearly still too caught up with the idea of 'blame' rather than considering how different actions can influence outcome.


That's good as you are starting to sound like DB (or cookmysock as he likes to be called now).

Yep every crash should be examined but not to the "holier than thou" attitude you have. You can only guess at what you would do.

I drive/ride over 10k km a month and see my far share of near misses (and crashes) and sometimes it just comes down to pure luck or reactive instinct.

I think you are very obsessive when it comes to this type of question and it does seem that you can't be objective anymore. (not just on this thread)

[george formby]

Triumph Speed Triple.

Oh. I'm a little disappointed. I thought it may have been an accessory I could afford, like truck nuts.:laugh:

[jrandom]

miss spelling

<img src="http://i50.tinypic.com/wb5cgk.jpg"/>

[Drew]

PictureFucksakes, again?

[jrandom]

Fucksakes, again?

It's a photograph of Miss Spelling (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tori_Spelling), innit.

[Drew]

It's a photograph of Miss Spelling (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tori_Spelling), innit.Yeah yeah, I made yet another error in my writing.

Seriously people, don't focus on the wrong part of the story.

[jrandom]

Yeah yeah, I made yet another error in my writing.

Write however you like, man, that wasn't meant negatively. I just enjoy visual pun opportunities.

[Drew]

Write however you like, man, that wasn't meant negatively. I just enjoy visual pun opportunities.
Oh, as you were then. My mistake.

[jrandom]

Oh, and getting back on topic, I totally could've avoided that crash.

I've swerved around and/or braked in time for more violent pull-out-in-front-of-mes than the one in the video.

I suppose pride comes before a fall, so don't be surprised if I ride splat into the side of a logging truck sometime soon, etc.

[Matariki]

How many of you guys could of avoided this? (this rider really did face plant) https://images.encyclopediadramatica.se/6/6c/Trollface.gif


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4xUKG9vEMg&feature=g-u-u

[haydes55]

How many of you guys could of avoided this? (this rider really did face plant)

That rider is an idiot!
1) He rode through what looks like bollards designed to stop traffic, so I honestly don't blame the driver for not looking for vehicles that direction.
2) You don't ride that fast through urban areas unless you want to kill children, crash or give bikers a worse rep. I saw the speedo reading 69 before the camera view goes too high, presuming that's km/h and the limit will most likely be 50km/h or possibly 30km/h.

[ducatilover]

He hit a Lada :eek::laugh:

[caseye]

Darwin is our friend! This fool got what he deserved.Only hope he lived and rides a lot better now.

[swbarnett]

How many of you guys could of avoided this? (this rider really did face plant)
That was definitely avoidable.

1. Slow down prior to the intersection - in this situation always expect the worst.

or

2. Swerve right and go behind the car.

[p.dath]

That rider is an idiot!
1) He rode through what looks like bollards designed to stop traffic, so I honestly don't blame the driver for not looking for vehicles that direction.
2) You don't ride that fast through urban areas unless you want to kill children, crash or give bikers a worse rep. I saw the speedo reading 69 before the camera view goes too high, presuming that's km/h and the limit will most likely be 50km/h or possibly 30km/h.

+1. Definitely.

[Banditbandit]

As far as potential hazards go that situation is dripping with them.

The two trucks block off almost all the escape routes and it doesn't appear particularly well lit in amongst the trees.

I'd have been doing whatever it takes to ensure the truck driver spotted me.

It also didn't appear that the motorcyclist slowed down noticeably.

Yeah .. despite his claim to be slowing down it certainly doesn't look like he was ... Maybe if he had slowed down some more it was avoidable ...

But from the speed he was doing and position on the road when the black truck moved - I doubt I would avoid it ...

[Banditbandit]

That rider is an idiot!
1) He rode through what looks like bollards designed to stop traffic, so I honestly don't blame the driver for not looking for vehicles that direction.
2) You don't ride that fast through urban areas unless you want to kill children, crash or give bikers a worse rep. I saw the speedo reading 69 before the camera view goes too high, presuming that's km/h and the limit will most likely be 50km/h or possibly 30km/h.

Yes - exactly ... being a dumb fucker at speed ...

[YellowDog]

Yes - exactly ... being a dumb fucker at speed ...

I think you'll find that's MPH and not KPH :facepalm:

[scumdog]

How many of you guys could of avoided this? (this rider really did face plant)

At that speed? - not me.

But I would not have been riding at that speed in that manner in that set of conditions... :no:

[mossy1200]

I think the driver did a good job of not avoiding him. Seemed to line him up perfectly even though he only had a Lada to do it with.

[Gremlin]

At that speed? - not me.

But I would not have been riding at that speed in that manner in that set of conditions... :no:
That's the key isn't it. Having the skill to predict future danger and adjust your riding accordingly. Not wait until you're neck deep in the shit and wonder how you're going to get out...

Not riding like it's your last day probably wouldn't help as well...

[breakaway]

Do you think this could have benen avoided :corn:

ZMTZNggZQsI


Out for a group ride. I had never met the guy who was riding the ZX-10 before. As I was slowing down he was still going fast and said he never saw the trailer. The gopro camera is mounted to the front of my Ducati 848 Evo. He survived the crash with only a broken arm and broken leg however he was airlifted to the hospital.

[Drew]

Do you think this could have benen avoided :corn:
Yes, since it's fake.

[SuperMac]

I'd have had my headlight on for a start.

UK bikes have had headlamps hard-wired with the ignition since 2002/2003 - so it would have been on.

But even then, dipped beam is supposed to shine down on the road surface, with a cut-off to avoid low going higher - and the trucker's eye-line would have been about 3m above road height!

[p.dath]

Do you think this could have benen avoided :corn:

...

I didn't even spot the rider tumbling through the air till the slow motion at the end.

[Banditbandit]

I think you'll find that's MPH and not KPH :facepalm:

Deosn't matter - he (or she) was coming through obstacles blocking tt he road and accelerating towards an intersection where other road users would not expecting to see someone coming at them at speed ... whether it is measured in kph or mph ... Dumb Dumb Dumb ...

[Daffyd]

The Lada driver couldn't have been at fault... he was wearing a hi-vis vest! The biker appeared to me to be going way too fast through the bollards.

[R-Soul]

You could see the black truck moving over the white line at 0:27 already. The rider should have been covering his brakes when any other vehicles are present- for exacclty that reason. I might not have avoided hitting the truck, but would have slowed down a hell of a lot more. Also, when he did recognise that the truck started moving - that did not seem like emergency braking - he should have been able to stop a lot faster than that.
It looked like he was doing about 90-100kmh? When he hit the truck, he was still doing about 60kph.

Its tough in that situation - I was in the same one a couple of weeks back- you have to choose between braking or swerving, but you cant swerve until you have braked enough, and you are not sure that you will be able to brake enough. So do you swerve and lay the bike into the corner, holding on and hoping for the best, or do you brake hard as you can and as long as you can, bleeding off as much speed as possible, and take the risk of hitting the truck? I think the option of being hit, but at low speed, is probably safer than taking a corner too hot and sliding out into the other truck.. its a fine choice though...

[Drew]

It looked like he was doing about 90-100kmh? When he hit the truck, he was still doing about 60kph.

Ever hit a solid object at 50kph?

That bike was doing 20 MAX, if it was at all real, which I doubt. The camera shows tha bike didn't even break a head light.

[CookMySock]

As for the truck driver, I'd expect he looked down the road, saw nothingOoops, and why is this exactly?

Bike with no (or poor) headllight hidden in the shadows between the tall trees perhaps? Get a brighter headlight. Put the fucker on fullbeam except when it's not appropriate.

Slow down in closing or convoluted environments where there is traffic crossing. Pay exceedingly careful attention to any hint of movement from any vehicle that CAN cross your lane (not MIGHT).

[SuperMac]

Bike with no (or poor) headllight hidden in the shadows between the tall trees perhaps? Get a brighter headlight. Put the fucker on fullbeam except when it's not appropriate.

That bike will have been sold with AHO - i.e. the headlamp hard-wired on, no 'off' switch.

Even then, dipped beam is to illuminate the road ahead and to the left verge, not high and right where the HGV driver was sitting.


Slow down in closing or convoluted environments where there is traffic crossing.

Is [part of] the right answer.

[Drew]

What the fuck is wrong with you dumb shits, that think the high beam function of your headlight is there to notify other traffic of your presence?

"Let's make the road a more dangerous place, for everyone else". Use your fucking head, cunt!

[R-Soul]

How many of you guys could of avoided this? (this rider really did face plant)

Thsi guy was being a freaking idiot and got everything he was looking for...

[R-Soul]

I've got a couple of problems with that.

First, countersteering isn't counter-intuitive like the dude says, most of us did it the very first time we slung a leg over a bike of any sort.




I've got a problem with that. It took me two accidents, a few years of wondering, and a month of toying with a 250 before I clicked. So maye not so intuitive for some.

If some dude had just said "steer left to go right" at the start, it could have saved me a lot of headache...

[Drew]

I've got a problem with that. It took me two accidents, a few years of wondering, and a month of toying with a 250 before I clicked. So maye not so intuitive for some.

If some dude had just said "steer left to go right" at the start, it could have saved me a lot of headache...

If you have to think about couter steering, you are a fucking retard.

Give up motorcycles now, for the sake of anyone who loves you!

[onearmedbandit]

If some dude had just said "steer left to go right" at the start, it could have saved me a lot of headache...

Not being a smartarse, but didn't appear obvious that was happened? No one told me about it but from the moment I first rode a pushbike at speed that's how it was. Wasn't until years after riding I found it was called 'counter-steering'. Like I said, not trying to be smart.

[Brian d marge]

Two big trucks on a pissy uk rd ..... I would almost be stationary , sod em if they get bent out of shape for going to slow through that junction,,,

trucks win every time and pain hurts

Stephen

Ps I also was suspecting the red truck !

[Drew]

Ps I also was suspecting the red truck !When I saw the trucks, that's what I thought was gonna become a road block too.

[Berries]

I've got a problem with that. It took me two accidents, a few years of wondering, and a month of toying with a 250 before I clicked. So maye not so intuitive for some.
Did you not have a pushbike as a kid? My five year old doesn't know it, but she can counter steer. She can't count for shit, but she can definitely counter steer.

[Ocean1]

Did you not have a pushbike as a kid? My five year old doesn't know it, but she can counter steer. She can't count for shit, but she can definitely counter steer.

According to a dude called Bernt Spiegel, (behavioral psychologist, university professor, senior instructor of Motorrad magazine's Perfection Training program at Nurburgring, ergonomics consultant to Porsche) it's hard wired behaviour derived from the part of your brain that controls running, (but not walking).

When, while running, you want to turn left your footsteps step over to the right of your body's centre of mass, keeping you ballanced through the turn left. It's such a natural translation to two wheeled control that you don't even notice you're doing it.

Something else he points to that's obvious only in hindsight: beginer riders are absolutely happy to lean their bikes to turn them... up to 20 degrees. Every degree beyond that causes an increase in anxiety to some point where they can go further only with continued practice to overcome that instinctive reluctance. The anxiety's rooted in the same running co-processor in your brain: it's the natural limit of traction between dirt and bare feet.

The Upper Half of the Motorcycle. Good read.

[G4L4XY]

That was a nice looking left hander he could've got his knee-down on! Guess he prefer the taste of a Mack

[R-Soul]

If you have to think about couter steering, you are a fucking retard.

Give up motorcycles now, for the sake of anyone who loves you!

I dont have to now that I know how it works, and have ingrained it.

[R-Soul]

Did you not have a pushbike as a kid? My five year old doesn't know it, but she can counter steer. She can't count for shit, but she can definitely counter steer.

I rode a pushbike more than most in my teens. I guess I was relying on weight steering, or was somehow doing it inadvertently (albeitly very inneffectively) when I moved my body weight around on the bike. Its one thing to do it on a pushbike when the bike weighs 10kgs and you weigh 6-8 x that (as a teenybopper anyway :shifty: ). but when you start moving at higher speeds, with heavier wheels creating a stronger gyroscopic effect, then there is no room for inneffective steering. Nobody ever told me about it or mentioned it. It never occurred to me to consciously push the bars in the opposite direction I wanted to go. No Interweb then...

And I never had my own bike to get used to the new forces on, so when a mate offered his bike, I was off and thinking I could control it like my pushbike - NOT.

And frankly there is STILL a lot of bullshit floating around about what the most effective steering method is, and the best technique is. Some STILL say that they "push down on the foot pegs", and some push DOWN on the bars (as opposed to forwards, like they should).

So the idea that it is intuitive is definitely NOT a given for many. Yes, most kids can balance a bike, and that is effectively by countersteering, but I always recognised that as part of the act of "balance" and not as part of "steering" - not all kids recognise that that is how they are actually expected to STEER the pushbike.

[R-Soul]

According to a dude called Bernt Spiegel, (behavioral psychologist, university professor, senior instructor of Motorrad magazine's Perfection Training program at Nurburgring, ergonomics consultant to Porsche) it's hard wired behaviour derived from the part of your brain that controls running, (but not walking).

When, while running, you want to turn left your footsteps step over to the right of your body's centre of mass, keeping you ballanced through the turn left. It's such a natural translation to two wheeled control that you don't even notice you're doing it.

Something else he points to that's obvious only in hindsight: beginer riders are absolutely happy to lean their bikes to turn them... up to 20 degrees. Every degree beyond that causes an increase in anxiety to some point where they can go further only with continued practice to overcome that instinctive reluctance. The anxiety's rooted in the same running co-processor in your brain: it's the natural limit of traction between dirt and bare feet.

The Upper Half of the Motorcycle. Good read.

Intersting comment on the bare feet/dirt threshold... built into us from millenia spent running away from animals...

But unfortunatley while I knew that I had to lean, I was not blessed with the intuitive gift of knowing what I had to do to make it lean more.

[Drew]

I dont have to now that I know how it works, and have ingrained it.


I rode a pushbike more than most in my teens. I guess I was relying on weight steering, or was somehow doing it inadvertently (albeitly very inneffectively) when I moved my body weight around on teh bikle. Its one thing to do it on a pushbike when the bike weighs 10kgs and you weigh 6-8 x that (as a teenybopper anyway :shifty:). but when you start moving at higher speeds, with heavier wheels creating a stronger gyroscopic effect, then there is no room for inneffective steering. Nobody ever told me about it or mentioned it. No Interweb then...

And I never had my own bike to get used to the new forces on, so when a mate offered his bike, I was off and thinking I could control it, like my pushbike - NOT.

And frankly there is STILL a lt of bullshit floating around about what teh mmost effective methid is. Some STILL say weighting pegs is how they steer, some still say that they push down on the foot pegs, some push DOWN on the bars (as opposed to forwards, like they shouldl).

So the idea that it is intuitive is definitely NOT a given. Yes, most kids can balance a bike, and that is effectively by countersteering, but not all kids recognise that that is how they are actually expected to STEER the pushbike.


Intersting comment on the bare feet/dirt threshold... built into us from millenia spent running away from animals...

But unfortunatley while I knew that I had to lean, I was not blessed with the intuitive gift of knowing what I had to do to make it lean more.Seriously dude, how much do you think you have to turn the bars to effect a direction change in the wheels? Gyroscopic forces do play a part, but fuck all when the degree of turn is so minimal.

Lets put it another way. Do you realise that riding in a straight line on a bike, you are actually weaving from side to side slightly. Espescially at low speed. This is done by counter steering. Did you have to teach yourself to stay upright in a straight line on a motorbike too?

Please, warn all motorists that you intend to ride, so they have the option to stay home. You're doing it wrong!

[jrandom]

built into us from millenia spent running away from animals...

Or chasing them (http://www.chrismcdougall.com/).

[R-Soul]

Seriously dude, how much do you think you have to turn the bars to effect a direction change in the wheels? Gyroscopic forces do play a part, but fuck all when the degree of turn is so minimal.

It was not the question of turning the bars - it was the direction in which the bars are to be turned. It simply did not occur to me to turn them in the OPPOSITE direction that I wanted to go. As I said, I did not get much opportunity to play with motor bikes as a teenager. So when I did get to ride a motorbike, I treated it like a bicycle, and tried to steer it by leaning my weight to the side I wanted to go. This works with lightweight bicycles at low speeds. This does not work with motorbikes, and gyroscopic forces of relatively heavy wheels turning at high speeds play a huge part in keeping the motorbike upright against riders weight leaning off the side. This is why steering by using weight or leaning will never get you through a set of chicanes. For any real corner taken at speed (which I encountered 500meters down the road), my technique was hopelessly inadequate (at the time).



Lets put it another way. Do you realise that riding in a straight line on a bike, you are actually weaving from side to side slightly. Espescially at low speed. This is done by counter steering. Did you have to teach yourself to stay upright in a straight line on a motorbike too?

As I said, balancing is one thing, and my mind had not taken "balance" on board as part of "steering" (at the time). Now I obviously know a lot better. The fact is that using countersteering as a technqiue is just not intuitive.



Please, warn all motorists that you intend to ride, so they have the option to stay home. You're doing it wrong!

I was talking about my experiences some 20 years ago, as a newbie, before I had an opportunity to ride a lot more. I now believe that my riding is better than average because of the work (practical and theory) I have put into understanding the hows and why's of riding technique.

I also dont appreciate your aggressive comments, when I am trying to put in a word of explanation to help newbies.

[caseye]

R-Soul, you have been here for a while now, surely you know who is truely being a troll, being smart or just trying to get you to say it out aloud.
This is KB and despite what many here think the majority of people who do post regularly are in fact interested in making sure that those who come along here and ask questions and for real advice,l get it!
None of the more recent posters would ever consider giving you a bum steer????

LOL pun intended.
But they will stir you up and laugh at your peeved response, that's part of the fun.

So, Give advice based on your own experiences and opinions, but do be prepared to take a bit of flak occasionally when someone else decides to stir you up a little
over what you may have said.

[R-Soul]

Or chasing them (http://www.chrismcdougall.com/).


The ones that chased them died ages ago from starvation. The ones that ambushed them live on...

[Drew]

It was not the question of turning the bars - it was the direction in which the bars are to be turned. It simply did not occur to me to turn them in the OPPOSITE direction that I wanted to go. As I said, I did not get much opportunity to play with motor bikes as a teenager. So when I did get to ride a motorbike, I treated it like a bicycle, and tried to steer it by leaning my weight to the side I wanted to go. This works with lightweight bicycles at low speeds. This does not work with motorbikes, and gyroscopic forces of relatively heavy wheels turning at high speeds play a huge part in keeping the motorbike upright against riders weight leaning off the side. This is why steering by using weight or leaning will never get you through a set of chicanes. For any real corner taken at speed (which I encountered 500meters down the road), my technique was hopelessly inadequate (at the time).




As I said, balancing is one thing, and my mind had not taken "balance" on board as part of "steering" (at the time). Now I obviously know a lot better. The fact is that using countersteering as a technqiue is just not intuitive.




I was talking about my experiences some 20 years ago, as a newbie, before I had an opportunity to ride a lot more. I now believe that my riding is better than average because of the work (practical and theory) I have put into understanding the hows and why's of riding technique.

I also dont appreciate your aggressive comments, when I am trying to put in a word of explanation to help newbies.
If you could ride a pushbike, you could ride a motorbike! It's that fucking simple! The principals are the same, gyroscope be fucked.

Whatever you told yourself you had to learn, was WRONG!

You'll see me get aggressive in my responses one day. Sit back and laugh when you do, it's quite the spectacle.


R-Soul, you have been here for a while now, surely you know who is truely being a troll, being smart or just trying to get you to say it out aloud.
This is KB and despite what many here think the majority of people who do post regularly are in fact interested in making sure that those who come along here and ask questions and for real advice,l get it!
None of the more recent posters would ever consider giving you a bum steer????

LOL pun intended.
But they will stir you up and laugh at your peeved response, that's part of the fun.

So, Give advice based on your own experiences and opinions, but do be prepared to take a bit of flak occasionally when someone else decides to stir you up a little
over what you may have said.Shut up man, I'm having fun here!

[caseye]

LOL, wiping a tear from his eye, sorry can't give you anymore bling today, but had to say it.
IT!
Na, meant had to say, to R-Soul, See! told ya.
sorry Drew.
Nothing worse than fun police.

[nodrog]

I think its too late to avoid it.

[SuperMac]

Could you look as 'cool' on your bike as this? :sweatdrop

http://www.photoreflect.com/store/Orderpage.aspx?pi=0QAK01AY080000&po=0&pc=28

[R-Soul]

If you could ride a pushbike, you could ride a motorbike! It's that fucking simple! The principals are the same, gyroscope be fucked.




You are right, but you are also wrong.

The principles ARE the same in that the same forces are present, BUT the relative proportions of those forces change dramatically. It is quite simple to steer a bicycle with body weight alone, since the relative weight of the bike is low (compared to your own weight), and the gyroscopic forces from the wheels are minimal because the wheel weights are small, and the speed that they are rotating are low.

It is impossible to steer a motorbike effectively with body weight. Saying "gyroscopic forces be fucked " is like the captain of the Titanic saying "full speed ahead and fuck the icebergs".

If you have grown up stuffing around on a motorbike, say cause you had one as a teen, you probably get used to the increased weight and gyroscopic forces. You probably subconsciously learn to use countersteering without realising that it is actually what you are doing. However, this will develop over a longer time than say, getting on the bike, and being told the principles of countersteering, and having instant control of the bike.

This learning-by-experience could also involve a few off's before the subconscious control kicked in.

If every learner got a 5 minute course on countersteering, and then first rode with concious control of the bike, by applying counters teering technique properly (eg pushing forward instead of downward - some still say that is how it is done) it would potentially save many riders lots of pain. But you already know this.

Many people do have the attitude that "if you can ride a pushbike you can ride a motorbike" - and that is why 45 percent of motorbike accidents are bikes by themselves going off on corners. There is a LOT more to it.

[R-Soul]

Could you look as 'cool' on your bike as this? :sweatdrop

http://www.photoreflect.com/store/Orderpage.aspx?pi=0QAK01AY080000&po=0&pc=28

Right there is somebody with very little control over their own bike... but that probably had more to do with the fact that he was running out of ground clearance...

[jrandom]

It is impossible to steer a motorbike effectively with body weight.

And yet I can ride down a large-ish hill's worth of 35kph corners with both hands behind my head and my right foot making gentle love to the rear brake.

I've always known I was special, but I didn't know I was exempted-from-the-laws-of-physics special.

Fortunately, I find my ego capable of encompassing this revelation.

[BoristheBiter]

And yet I can ride down a large-ish hill's worth of 35kph corners with both hands behind my head and my right foot making gentle love to the rear brake.

I've always known I was special, but I didn't know I was exempted-from-the-laws-of-physics special.

Fortunately, I find my ego capable of encompassing this revelation.

You know the rules...pics or it never happened.:bleh:

Also I can't say I counter steer my dirt bike much. (maybe that's why I crash lots:killingme)

[bogan]

It is impossible to steer a motorbike effectively with body weight.

You mean quickly, body weight will overcome the precession over time.

If you need to use countersteering (by this I mean big push countersteering, not the more common doing it without realising it sort) on the road, you've probably done something wrong. However, if you need to use it to avoid an accident, its probably a damn good thing to do instinctively.

[jrandom]

You know the rules...pics or it never happened.:bleh:

I'll make that a project for the summer :)

[swbarnett]

And yet I can ride down a large-ish hill's worth of 35kph corners with both hands behind my head and my right foot making gentle love to the rear brake.
Try that with fixed bars (i.e. the front wheel can't turn). You won't go anywhere but straight.

When you turn with body weight you're still counter-steering. It's just that the force used to initiate it is not applied on the bars.

[jrandom]

When you turn with body weight you're still counter-steering.

I bet you also think that shaft drives can wheelie.

[swbarnett]

I bet you also think that shaft drives can wheelie.
Wouldn't have a clue. Although I have seen a photo of a GoldWing at 45degrees.

[jrandom]

I have seen a photo of a GoldWing at 45degrees.

Photoshopped.

[swbarnett]

Photoshopped.
I thought that might be the case.

[newbould]

Starts off as a nice wee thread about a guy beating up a truck and before you know it, its an argument about countersteering.

Did he wave to the biker waiting behind the truck, that's the important thing.

[Drew]

Try that with fixed bars (i.e. the front wheel can't turn). You won't go anywhere but straight.

When you turn with body weight you're still counter-steering. It's just that the force used to initiate it is not applied on the bars.The statement being refuted, was that you cannot change the bikes direction with weight alone. Had nothing to do with counter steering.

I really wanna shoot cunts everytime this topic comes up, wonder if it'll fly as a defence in court when I go nuts and on a killing spree?

[bogan]

The statement being refuted, was that you cannot change the bikes direction with weight alone. Had nothing to do with counter steering.

I really wanna shoot cunts everytime this topic comes up, wonder if it'll fly as a defence in court when I go nuts and on a killing spree?

The problem is technically any steering is countersteering, and people love pointing out this technicality to sound superior, rather than the much more sensible lets only refer to it as countersteering if you're conciously steering it the opposite way to the corner.

Just say you were counter-aiming?

[Drew]

The problem is technically any steering is countersteering, and people love pointing out this technicality to sound superior, rather than the much more sensible lets only refer to it as countersteering if you're conciously steering it the opposite way to the corner.

Just say you were counter-aiming?

Dude, don't poke the fuckin bear. I've had nearly the worst day of my life! Do not start trying to come up with a new name for the fuckin retards to bandy about!

[bogan]

Dude, don't poke the fuckin bear. I've had nearly the worst day of my life! Do not start trying to come up with a new name for the fuckin retards to bandy about!

I meant counter aiming down the iron sights as you shoot the plonkers...

[Drew]

I meant counter aiming down the iron sights as you shoot the plonkers...Hahahahahahaha, that's good!