Biker down? [Archive] - Kiwi Biker forums

caseye

15th October 2012, 16:41

In todays Herald:

"A 25-year-old motorcyclist, killed in Bay of Plenty last night, crashed after being told not to ride after drinking alcohol, police said."
No further details?

R-Soul this is in no way meant as an attack or slagging off of your concerns when it comes to fellow riders.

I read the article too, like MSTRS, I find it hard to muster any sympathy, having said that two things come to mind.

yes it's not going to make his immediate family any less mortified and upset.
The Darwin effect is no respecter of status or skill levels when they do it anyway.

The thread topic, Rider Down makes me cringe at the best of times,especially if it turns out it was someone many of us knew and respected/liked.
Then though the thread has a purpose and we can all of us lament or otherwise the circumstance and or the passing of a fellow KB'er, not to mention find out vital information re arrangements, dates etc.

But more than anything else I see no need for this sort of thread here, if the rider concerned was not a member here or was not know to the OP.

It happens we all know that, most of us avoid it on a daily basis and really don't want to be reminded how close we come nor how often.

paturoa

15th October 2012, 18:21

It happens we all know that, most of us avoid it on a daily basis and really don't want to be reminded how close we come nor how often.

Respecting the biker down rulz. You may not want to be reminded, so respectively, don't read threads with titles "biker down" in them.

At the appropriate time I'll be very interested in the armco collision details. For example, was the design of the "safety" barrier a contributing factor?

Kickaha

15th October 2012, 18:44

For example, was the design of the "safety" barrier a contributing factor?
Probably not as much as being pissed and not wearing a helmet

caseye

15th October 2012, 18:46

With respect, there is no, "biker down rule"
This rider had had a few, he was told by friends not to ride, he did not put on a lid, he did not get past the first corner, less than 500m's from the place he had just left.
I'm sorry but I cannot respect anyone who doesn't listen to his mates, who doesn't take responsibility for his own actions and who is then defended under a blanket "there's a biker down rule"
Add to that the implication that somehow a crash barrier magically hopped out in front of him and we've got a classic waste of time thread on KB.
Our time here on KB would be better spent talking about how to improve rider safety, starting with taking responsibility for your own actions first and foremost and not blaming someone/thing else for your poor decision making.

Akzle

15th October 2012, 18:55

Anybody that appears on these forums regularly?

sorry to disappoint

jellywrestler

15th October 2012, 18:58

At the appropriate time I'll be very interested in the armco collision details. For example, was the design of the "safety" barrier a contributing factor? yep it worked faultlessly, stopped this chimp taking someone else's life, simple as that, after all Katman might have been coming the other way 'test riding a customers bike' in t shirt and shorts and got skittled!

Magnum Noel

15th October 2012, 19:01

:killingme
sorry to disappoint

:killingme:rofl:

mossy1200

15th October 2012, 19:12

Im not into biker down threads as its hard to be constructive in responding.
I guess everyone dies at some point but it does seem like this persons choices moved the date forward.

Katman

15th October 2012, 19:18

yep it worked faultlessly, stopped this chimp taking someone else's life, simple as that, after all Katman might have been coming the other way 'test riding a customers bike' in t shirt and shorts and got skittled!

I'd have avoided him.

BigAl

15th October 2012, 19:33

Rider wasn't practising for Monday's ride by any chance?

Gremlin

15th October 2012, 21:55

Anybody that appears on these forums regularly?
Any discussion of identity prior to public notice, or without permission of the family would be removed, as per KB site rules.

Maha

16th October 2012, 06:16

Bassmatt

16th October 2012, 06:58

Soooo, if I were to start a thread entitled 'P is for Dickeads' (in relation to the two that died deep inside a mine shaft) would that be ok?...even though there may be a possibility that they had family/friends who are members here?

I think " Golly, it's pretty dangerous making something which produces poisonous gasses using a petrol powered generator in a confined space with no real ventilation, don't you think?"
will be acceptable.
Possible Darwin Award winners?

SMOKEU

16th October 2012, 07:06

All this speculation when we don't even know what happened apart from media reports of questionable accuracy.

Paul in NZ

16th October 2012, 07:07

Soooo, if I were to start a thread entitled 'P is for Dickeads' (in relation to the two that died deep inside a mine shaft) would that be ok?...even though there may be a possibility that they had family/friends who are members here?

No but no matter how mad or bad they were - once they were someones little toussle headed darling...

In fact it was a friend or family member that guided police to the shaft after they were worried for them... (sigh - I rather suspect they knew what they were doing too)

Unfortunately - we all have friends or family that can do stupid stupid things and sometime all you can do is love them and hope they get through it without hurting anyone else. In my case I'd not be too upset if someone else called it like it is though.

sidecar bob

16th October 2012, 07:30

No but no matter how mad or bad they were - once they were someones little toussle headed darling...

In fact it was a friend or family member that guided police to the shaft after they were worried for them... (sigh - I rather suspect they knew what they were doing too)

Unfortunately - we all have friends or family that can do stupid stupid things and sometime all you can do is love them and hope they get through it without hurting anyone else. In my case I'd not be too upset if someone else called it like it is though.

If their family knew what they were doing & dobbed them in, they would have been dragged out in handcuffs rather than body bags.
Oh well, their choice, their consequences.

Tigadee

16th October 2012, 07:34

That's at least three MC crashes/deaths in the last 3-4 weeks... This is getting serious! :eek5:

Banditbandit

16th October 2012, 08:55

At the appropriate time I'll be very interested in the armco collision details. For example, was the design of the "safety" barrier a contributing factor?

This happened with 4ks of my house - I am not sure exactly where, but it's the road I use to go to work on, and I rode it this morning ...

There are two obvious possibilities for the "sweeping right hander" both with armco barriers ... one is an easy corner at 100klicks ... I usually take it much faster ... the other is in a 70k area ... (but even at speeds of more than 100klicks it would not be a hard corner) it's pretty hard to see how the armco is a contributing factor in the crash .. but pretty easy to see that if you drop a bike and slide into a hard immovable object there is a good chance of getting killed ... especially without a helmet ...

Drunk would be my pick for the reason for the crash - and no helmet the reason he was killed ...

And no, I did not know the rider ... but yes, he was someone's family member ... even dickheads are loved by someone

SMOKEU

16th October 2012, 09:00

If their family knew what they were doing & dobbed them in, they would have been dragged out in handcuffs rather than body bags.
Oh well, their choice, their consequences.

Is being a nark all the rage these days?

sidecar bob

16th October 2012, 09:09

Is being a nark all the rage these days?

I wouldnt know, but It seems less popular than being dead.
If I knew someone that was manufacturing P I would be as likely to dob them in as they would be to sell it to someones tousle headed wee offspring.
If that makes me a nark, then bring it on.
You call it nark, I call it reporting crime.

sidecar bob

16th October 2012, 09:11

That's at least three MC crashes/deaths in the last 3-4 weeks... This is getting serious! :eek5:

At least 15 deaths related to smoking in the same period.

SMOKEU

16th October 2012, 09:12

I wouldnt know, but It seems less popular than being dead.
If I knew someone that was manufacturing P I would be as likely to dob them in as they would be to sell it to someones tousle headed wee offspring.
If that makes me a nark, then bring it on.
You call it nark, I call it reporting crime.

You must have too much free time then.

caspernz

16th October 2012, 09:30

All this speculation when we don't even know what happened apart from media reports of questionable accuracy.

Regardless of what the media reported in this case...any chance they were in that tunnel baking brownies and making cups of tea?:rolleyes:

Banditbandit

16th October 2012, 09:35

All this speculation when we don't even know what happened apart from media reports of questionable accuracy.

Yes, you are right. However, a picture on TV last night of a pertrol-driven generator in the tunnel is pretty damm suggestive - even if they were engaged in legal activities, running a petrol-driven generator in such a confined space was a very dumb idea.

FJRider

16th October 2012, 09:37

Is being a nark all the rage these days?

They could have visited them in prison ... or the cemetery. Now only the ONE choice is available.

Paul in NZ

16th October 2012, 10:37

Is being a nark all the rage these days?

What an utterly stupid thing to say. If you saw one of your mates high on P, tooling up to go kill a bus load of little kids, are you saying you wouldn't call the cops and try and stop it?

Sure - you might not do it if he was just calmly rolling a spliff before sitting down to watch a DVD but just throwing the 'nark' card about over this puts you up there with the cunts that clam up over child abuse. These cunts were making P - its a bloody horrible thing to do and they were doing it just to make money out of peoples misery.

I'm not going to mourn them and yeah - I'd dob the cunts in as quick as I could find a phone...

sidecar bob

16th October 2012, 10:53

Maha

16th October 2012, 10:57

Yes, you are right. However, a picture on TV last night of a pertrol-driven generator in the tunnel is pretty damm suggestive - even if they were engaged in legal activities, running a petrol-driven generator in such a confined space was a very dumb idea.

''very dumb idea''

So is riding a motorbike pissed with no helmet...the end result being very much the same thing.
That P thing was just an example I used earlier, in an attempt to get some clarification on the subject matter.

My point is...site rules are site rules, thats a given, but, where is line drawn on what deaths can be openly discussed?
Who knows for certain that one of those mine shaft clowns was not KB member?
Either of them could well have been...is it ok to talk about thier deaths just because they were not killed on a bike?...I guess it is.

R-Soul

16th October 2012, 11:12

sorry to disappoint

Thats a massive fuck you for that comment mate. I happen to know, and like, a lot of people on this forum, and when I read about crashes in the news, I always wonder if it was somebody that I happen to be chatting to on a forum the day before, or been to an ART day with, or go riding with regularly (ok not so regularly any more, but still). Excuse me for being concerned about my friends...

R-Soul

16th October 2012, 11:13

Any discussion of identity prior to public notice, or without permission of the family would be removed, as per KB site rules.

Discussion of alter ego identity (rather than name) is different...

R-Soul

16th October 2012, 11:18

Thats a massive fuck you for that comment mate. I happen to know, and like, a lot of people on this forum, and when I read about crashes in the news, I always wonder if it was somebody that I happen to be chatting to on a forum the day before, or been to an ART day with, or go riding with regularly (ok not so regularly any more, but still). Excuse me for being concerned about my friends...

Or did I misss the sarcasm?

Diggers

16th October 2012, 11:38

Good on ya Caseye, I'm with you!

paturoa

16th October 2012, 12:01

... it's pretty hard to see how the armco is a contributing factor in the crash .. but pretty easy to see that if you drop a bike and slide into a hard immovable object there is a good chance of getting killed ... especially without a helmet ...

I suspect that we wont get the details. I've got issues with the design of the armco out there, particularly with the newer instalations. Basically if you're sliding along the road, the posts (older wooden and lately steel) are lethal. There are a number of instalations along the motorways in dorkland where there are two and sometimes three rows, which are much more forgiving with a glancing blow.

Road kill

16th October 2012, 16:04

The guy would still be alive if he'd had any real mates,rather than just gutless fucks that "warned him"not to ride.

sidecar bob

16th October 2012, 16:23

The guy would still be alive if he'd had any real mates,rather than just gutless fucks that "warned him"not to ride.

They were probably just worried that Monique would think they were dumb.
He shudda just crashed there.

oneofsix

16th October 2012, 16:26

They were probably just worried that Monique would think they were dumb.
He shudda just crashed there.

he didn't get much further and how they will have to share his ghost chips.

R-Soul

16th October 2012, 16:41

he didn't get much further and how they will have to share his ghost chips.

And Monique thinks he is dumb...

SMOKEU

16th October 2012, 18:01

What an utterly stupid thing to say. If you saw one of your mates high on P, tooling up to go kill a bus load of little kids, are you saying you wouldn't call the cops and try and stop it?

Sure - you might not do it if he was just calmly rolling a spliff before sitting down to watch a DVD but just throwing the 'nark' card about over this puts you up there with the cunts that clam up over child abuse. These cunts were making P - its a bloody horrible thing to do and they were doing it just to make money out of peoples misery.

I'm not going to mourn them and yeah - I'd dob the cunts in as quick as I could find a phone...

The fact that the person may be under the influence of illegal drugs is irrelevant, and none of my business. If someone was acting in a violent manner and threatening to cause harm, then I won't hesitate to call police if I believe other people may be in imminent danger, regardless of any substances being used.

Yes, you are right. However, a picture on TV last night of a pertrol-driven generator in the tunnel is pretty damm suggestive - even if they were engaged in legal activities, running a petrol-driven generator in such a confined space was a very dumb idea.

They should have used a diesel generator since diesels generally put out significantly less CO than a similar powered petrol engine.

98tls

16th October 2012, 18:21

The guy would still be alive if he'd had any real mates,rather than just gutless fucks that "warned him"not to ride.

About it really.Sad thread really as usual it brings out all the holier than though types banging away on the keys.A bloke died, no matter what hes done/not done/would have done blah blah blah hes dead and what a waste,everybodys got skeletons in the closet,something we all need to remember.

jellywrestler

16th October 2012, 18:34

everybodys got skeletons in the closet,something we all need to remember. somewhere too they're having a big territory war with Gays that are still waiting to come out of the closet I'm sure...

98tls

16th October 2012, 18:44

somewhere too they're having a big territory war with Gays that are still waiting to come out of the closet I'm sure...

Gay?If your talking about people that stick there dick in there mates arse then be so kind as to call it what it is.Always chuckled at the term gay,last thing on earth i would feel if such a thing happened.

R-Soul

18th October 2012, 09:02

The fact that the person may be under the influence of illegal drugs is irrelevant, and none of my business. If someone was acting in a violent manner and threatening to cause harm, then I won't hesitate to call police if I believe other people may be in imminent danger, regardless of any substances being used.

I think he was referring to the drugs themselves being the utensils that will be used to kill kids - i.e. killing the kids by dealing tothem, as opposed to being hopped up on P and going out and going all postal on them.

P is a damn nasty drug and I would not wish it on anybody. If I saw anybody dealing it, I would also dob them in. I dont want f#$%$ers like that offering it to my kids.

They should have used a diesel generator since diesels generally put out significantly less CO than a similar powered petrol engine.

Maybe you should try it?

PrincessBandit

18th October 2012, 09:17

Some people get to live with the consequences of their actions; some leave others living with the consequences of their actions.

I really don't understand this whole "don't be a nark" mentality; and a lot of us have a highly evolved "if it doesn't concern or endanger me I don't care" belief system.

Discussing the circumstances which lead to accidents and/or deaths will always bring out defensiveness in people, especially from those personally involved (or close to the parties involved). To others who are more removed from the immediate circle it tends to be a lot more academic. Victims and their families, understandably, can struggle with that. Discussions can be painful, but ultimately if someone else can take the "easy" lesson rather than going through it the hard way (having failed to learn from others' experience) then I'm all for that.

Banditbandit

18th October 2012, 10:11

I really don't understand this whole "don't be a nark" mentality; and a lot of us have a highly evolved "if it doesn't concern or endanger me I don't care" belief system.

It's called the "Someone else's Problem Field" ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somebody_Else's_Problem

SMOKEU

18th October 2012, 11:42

I think he was referring to the drugs themselves being teh utensils that will be use dto kill kids - i.e. killing teh kids by dealing tothem, as opposed to being hopped up on P and going out and going all postal on them.

How is that any different to convenience stores selling tobacco or liquor stores selling high strength spirit?

oneofsix

18th October 2012, 12:08

How is that any different to convenience stores selling tobacco or liquor stores selling high strength spirit?

If the convenience store or liquor was seen to be selling to under aged then report them, no difference in that sense

SMOKEU

18th October 2012, 12:10

If the convenience store or liquor was seen to be selling to under aged then report them, no difference in that sense

Not that it makes any difference since most households in NZ have some form of potable alcohol in them which is easily accessible by kids.

oneofsix

18th October 2012, 12:13

Not that it makes any difference since most households in NZ have some form of potable alcohol in them which is easily accessible by kids.

So? As a parent it is my choice at home. I am not allowed to let a 13 year old watch an R16 video but if I choose to give them a sane education, a sip of my drink, about alcohol under parental supervision I can still do that. :2thumbsup

caseye

18th October 2012, 12:36

Banditbandit

18th October 2012, 12:59

Without him, we'd literally be living in a country full of sick F..k's.

Haven't you read KB ??? We already are ...

skippa1

18th October 2012, 13:17

Is being a nark all the rage these days?

How is that any different to convenience stores selling tobacco or liquor stores selling high strength spirit?
wierd, always ends up in a drugs vs alchohol debate. The point is that you disparagingly discuss "narking". It could have saved a mans life and could save many more if friends and family "narked" instead of letting things happen. You are better having 50% of something than 100% of nothing - you are better having an angry live friend than a one that is dead because you didnt "nark"

Banditbandit

18th October 2012, 13:56

Not that it makes any difference since most households in NZ have some form of potable alcohol in them which is easily accessible by kids.

Piss off dickhead ... there are plenty of stores prosecuted for selling liquor to underaged people ...

Banditbandit

18th October 2012, 13:57

you are better having an angry live friend than a one that is dead because you didnt "nark"

With some of the people I know they may well be alive, but they would not be my friends any more .. and I might just feel a little unsafe when they left prison ...

sidecar bob

18th October 2012, 17:46

SMOKE r ewe for real?
Come on, I expect better than this from you.
Playing DA or being a troll is one thing, but pretending to condone and even suggesting that you'd be happy with a P maker next door, long as they didn't let their stinky kill you fumes come over your fence is a bit rich!
Bottom line, the biker died of his own stupidity.
As did the two gorms in the mine shaft.
Thank God for Darwin!
Without him, we'd literally be living in a country full of sick F..k's.

My old dad had a P house over the fence a few years ago, in a very tidy neighbourhood. The fumes are the least of the problem. They are noisey, thieving, selfish, disrespecful cunts, that never sleep. They are complete shit & have shit for mates. I sincerely hope that anyone that thinks theyre ok as neighbours, gets some as neighbours.

R-Soul

25th October 2012, 16:16

How is that any different to convenience stores selling tobacco or liquor stores selling high strength spirit?

Or selling someone a bike?
I guess the probability of destruction arising from it?

Selling tobacco is probably just as bad frankly - one in two people who smoke, die (albeit slowly) from smoking related illnesses. HALF!
Even P is probably not as deadly, but it is a lot faster.

What percentage of bikers have been in an accident? Anybody know?

jrandom

25th October 2012, 16:30

What percentage of bikers have been in an accident? Anybody know?

It won't be 100%, but it'll be as close to it as makes no difference. Much like telecommunications service level agreements, it's simply a question of how many nines there are.