Another two-year-old toddler beaten to death

[Banditbandit]

OK OK .. he was found guilty and will go to jail ... the only question is for how long? And it wil be more than 10 years ...

END OF THREAD!

[Edbear]

OK OK .. he was found guilty and will go to jail ... the only question is for how long? And it wil be more than 10 years ...

END OF THREAD!

LOL!!! I agree! :calm:

[GTRMAN]

meh whatever
I can pick a retard at 100 meters


So someone one with a pervasive developmental disorder is a retard?? Yet in your words "Whew. Without the autistic genotype, inventions, science and engineering would suffer immensely"

Kinda shot yourself in the face there didn't ya

[Ocean1]

So someone one with a pervasive developmental disorder is a retard?? Yet in your words "Whew. Without the autistic genotype, inventions, science and engineering would suffer immensely"

Kinda shot yourself in the face there didn't ya

He's dead right, the two aren't mutually exclusive, quite the reverse, the autistic and even the simply very clever have never been easy company for most.

As for qualified? Got references showing your capable of distinguishing?



Thought not.

[Akzle]

Since when has this been YOUR thread Akzle?

The offender was found GUILTY beyond a reasonable doubt, all your posturing about your perceived flaws in the legal system change nothing. Denial is pretty much endemic in our corrections system. strangely it is the admission of what has been done that is the beginning of turning their lives around.

You talk like someone who has spent some time in the dock and not gotten the desired outcome. Bitter, paranoid and delusional.

since i started posting walls of green text bro! i'm like a dog. once i piss on it, it's mine!

the offender WAS found guilty "beyond reaonable doubt" that, in reality, means exactly dick.

IF he did actually kill the kid, i agree, he should own up to it and do some penance. that is not, however, for "the crown" to decide. punishing an unrepentant man makes a harder criminal at the end of the lag, eh.

the only times i have been in court and walked out with a less than ideal result was the family court regarding care of my kids (got there in the end). when i'm "sticking it to the man" i win. (3 for 3 so far)
bitter? no, paranoid, probably, delusional.. that's your title bud!


Hey at least any offender has a better chance of getting off when it only takes one person to consider them innocent (for whatever reason); if it was left to one person to decide their fate the odds lessen considerably. At least the jury are there to hear what is put before them in a court of law (and that does mean something to most people) rather than relying on media reports, or the almighty kiwibiker jury.
*two people, if a jury is majority, it's still a ruling. ("find"-ing)
and we don't find people innocent in this country. merely "not guilty".
it's not a "court of law" it's a court of legislation.
and yes, while they may have been apprised of everything bought before them, that doesn't mean they're enlightened.
if the court system means something to anyone, well, it's their own dumb fault and i hope they get wrung through it once or twice to see how it goes.



But, who's going to do it?
Who is qualified to do it?

The collective we of course with the full sanctioning and support of the Police and the actual backing of the politicians and lastly the legal system, it is this particular institution that is failing us the most and in dazzlingly spectacular fashion.

Dislike the Police for being under the direct thumb of the ruling party,( thanks comrade helen), dislike their hard nosed attitude to career crims and anything that looks like one, but don't blame them for letting these animals out to do their thing.

We need to actively support them against the judicial system and their political masters to let them know that most of us want them out there between the animals and us and will go to their aid if they are attacked.

In return though we should have a perfect right to expect that they treat ordinary citizens with courtesy and respect, I've had many occasions where I've spoken with and or been spoken to by Police. Most have been amicable and friendly, some however were downright rude, overbearing and totally out of touch with reality, these ones need taking out as much as any of the crims they're there to protect against.

who is qualified for it? god. karma.
who is going to do it? whoever you vote for/allow to do it. (you get to vote for your gods, neat huh)

thing is, if the system wasn't so fucked, we might find people manning up to their crimes. (if the system was ideal, there would be no crime) instead, they resist (at the advice of their lawyer) and make it as difficult (and expensive) as possible for all concerned.

i agree with a lot of that. except where you start looking to the systems (police, courts etc) to remedy the problems.
there is no profit in the remedy. and thus you will NEVER see it, while the concept of monetary profit exists.

the police's job is to collect evidence and press charges in a court of law. in theory this is all kosher. in practice, the courts are crown courts, the lawyers are crown lawyers and the police are crown agents (conflict of interest much?)
if we had a truly independent judiciary process (a "court of law"), i'd be far more in favour of it. (of course, if we had it my way, it would be irrelevant)
however, it's the role of the police to present a case, as best they can, the role of the courts to rule on the merits of it, as it applies to crown legislation.
(this is re: "but don't blame them for letting these animals out to do their thing.")

as with you, i've had good and bad experiences with cops, if all cops were good cops, i could almost support the institution. as there are so many dickheads, and it's largely a corporate-government-revenue gathering exercise, and the fact that they have NO effect on the level of crime occurring,i do not.
i know police that want firearms law changed, marajuana law changed, road policing law changed (even our mate rasty would speed, if it weren't illegal)
but they don't have a leg to stand on. they're formed under crown legislation and are crown agents ("an instrument of the crown") thus, while this almighty crown, is making decisions about shit (profitable decisions), we will see no change.



((interesting shit))
thanks for that.

Therein lies your problem, Axzle, you have strong opinions, not based upon personal knowledge coupled with a determination not to educate yourself by gaining said personal knowledge.

Unless you attend court yourself and hear and see how it is conducted, the evidence presented and how it is presented, you have no basis for your prejudice.

You also have no viable alternative to offer, which nullifies your credibility and causes people to dismiss your posts as invalid.

Criticism is given validity when it is logical, backed by facts and comes with reasonable argument on improving the case. Ideology is fine if it also addresses the reality of the situation and the practicalities of implementing the ideal.

We live in the real world whether you like it or not, so while you can claim a higher ground and pour scorn on others and the society you live in, you remain subject to it and will continue to use what you need and want to your advantage. You will also remain subject to the laws of the land in which you live whether you want to "recognise" them or not.

you're properly retarded, aren't ya. do me a favour and send our mate scissor hands a scan of your driver's license. i'd love to hear what he has to say about your eyebrows.

i have no objection to learning, being educated, being proved wrong.
...you're not doing any of that.

i have been in courts, i have seen the process, i've read the law and i draw the only conclusion possible: it's bullshit.
i don't care what eveidence exists, or how it's presented. the system is flawed. again, ed, you seem to be ignoring the parts of my posts you don't have an answer for.
if i can make an elephant disappear in a room full of people, does that mean i can make an elephant disappear? yes or no ed?
if i can present THAT evidence, does it mean THAT is fact?
(hint: the answer is no)

the basis for any prejudice i carry is my life up until this point.


i need to offer an alternative to make my points valid? man, what do they smoke at your church bro?!?
so, because i can say "not-beating a child to death" is a better alternative than "beating a child to death", that's a valid point?

you don't think "not beating a child to death" is valid in and of itself?

"criticism is only valid... with argument for improving the case" - horseshit.

dsmiss me all you like, infact, please do, i don't think you have the mental capacity to get any kind of handle on what i'm preaching.

as a god-fan, you talk to me of practicalities and implementing the ideal?
i LIVE the ideal. my ideal (said it before, sorry everyone who isn't thick as pigshit):
1- DO NO HARM TO PERSON OR PROPERTY
2- TELL THE TRUTH

fucken easy eh? replace the 11, 000 bits of crown law with those two and you simplify the court system (and put a whole lot of swindlers //sorry, lawyers, on the dole...)
and while we're at it, close the borders and do away with this "money"(debt) usurious crap.

what's impractical about that?

all animals are equal, but some are more equal than others eh...



Yup, factually incorrect on all counts as usual. :facepalm: Still, as long as your happy... :yes:
you realise that wasn't me, eh?


"Unfortunately it is human nature to think we are "qualified" to speak on many subjects,

My own study and research causes me to find error in his post and I could refer to qualified reference to back this up. However I doubt it would make any difference.

and you'd be right at the top of that list eh ed?

but of course, you're so morally superior you couldn't possibly condescend to back up anything you say with fact. ("because it wont wake a difference")

OK OK .. he was found guilty and will go to jail ... the only question is for how long? And it wil be more than 10 years ...

END OF THREAD!

rolled the dice... sentenced to 7 years, serves 4. no buttsex in jail. found not guilty 2 years later.

[Akzle]

oh.
mum's going to have another kid to another guy, the kid's either going to end up a suicide with cyfs or killed by "someone else".
mum's going to die in a carcrash where speed and alcohol are factors a while later to illicit public sympathy and save the courts the cost of dragging her though it and making an a55hole out of everyone involved this round.

[Edbear]

[QUOTE Axzle] : thing is, if the system wasn't so fucked, we might find people manning up to their crimes. (if the system was ideal, there would be no crime) instead, they resist (at the advice of their lawyer) and make it as difficult (and expensive) as possible for all concerned.

i agree with a lot of that. except where you start looking to the systems (police, courts etc) to remedy the problems.
there is no profit in the remedy. and thus you will NEVER see it, while the concept of monetary profit exists. [UNQUOTE]

Absolute bollocks!

For the rest, I have had enough dealings on here with scissorhands to know that anytime I post reference to back up a statement it makes no difference. He has the same attitude as others on here and is not worth arguing with.

Two points - I read his post through and can certainly dispute much of it with proper scientific research. If I did so it would require another thread, of course. Secondly, you join with others here in having a holier than thou attitude and make sweeping assumptions about people wthout knowing anything at all about them.

Posting crap like I have quoted here does nothing for your credibility at all. Neither does resorting to baseless personal insult, that indicates to all that you have nothing worthwhile to argue and is childish.

If you're going to try to insult or denigrate someone at least get your facts right.

[Drew]

I think you're a funny cunt, but I cannot argue with your inconsistencies. It's too hard to keep up.

[Edbear]

[QUOTE Axzle] you realise that wasn't me, eh?[UNQUOTE]

Do you actually read what is posted?

[98tls]

meh whatever
I can pick a retard at 100 meters

Mirrors must make you anxious.

[FJRider]

Mirrors must make you anxious.

Bloody dangerous ... if he's carrying a gun ... :yes:

I wonder how many mirror's so far ... :whocares:

[FJRider]

I think you're a funny cunt, but I cannot argue with your inconsistencies. It's too hard to keep up.

But he is consistently inconsistent ... that's something ... I guess .. :pinch:

[scumdog]

IF he did actually kill the kid, i agree, he should own up to it and do some penance. that is not, however, for "the crown" to decide.

In looking at the above statement from Akzle I feel he is expecting a bit much from this society he despises/shuns/wants nothing to do with or whatever his flavour of thought is at the time.

Part of the make-up of a true-blue NZ shit-head is to deny-deny-deny or if cornered like a rat claim it's not their fault and blame 'somebody else'.

[scumdog]

Another Axzle gem about cops: "the fact that they have NO effect on the level of crime occurring".:wacko:

Hmm, I would like to see the facts/figures supporting this claim gained from an 'even-stevens' test.
i.e.
One society WITH cops
Another complete 'mirror image' of the society WITHOUT cops.

And their relative crime rates.

And a KB poll to see how this society feels about the remark.

[mashman]

Ranty rant hair split hair split

So, truth serum and a gun is all that should be required? I'd be happy with that.

Edit: and cannot spread for you again dear.

[Akzle]

Absolute bollocks!


i love how you make statements, then provide a half-assed reason for not backing them up, without actually putting forward any contrary view or support for the current system, thus managing to post without actually saying anything.


I think you're a funny cunt, but I cannot argue with your inconsistencies. It's too hard to keep up. me, or ed? i have the consistency of a good shit.
...y'know when you've been eating plenty of vogels, bit of chilli and bratwurst. slightly grainy, bit of zing, but easy, and you feel so satisfied afterwards.

[Akzle]

In looking at the above statement from Akzle I feel he is expecting a bit much from this society he despises/shuns/wants nothing to do with or whatever his flavour of thought is at the time.

yeah, nah, justice is way to much to expect from that society.

if you get your neighbors kid to explain it to you (god forbid you should ever procreate), you'll see that the society is exactly the problem here. and were it not for the system/society, a) this shit wouldn't happen b) men would be men and face the music.
or are all men just cowards, miscreants and liars? if that's your view, i think you need a change of scene.


Part of the make-up of a true-blue NZ shit-head is to deny-deny-deny or if cornered like a rat claim it's not their fault and blame 'somebody else'.

so, you're involved with this case, fully apprised of the facts of the matter and able to make that judgement call?


Another Axzle gem about cops: "the fact that they have NO effect on the level of crime occurring".:wacko:

Hmm, I would like to see the facts/figures supporting this claim gained from an 'even-stevens' test.
i.e.
One society WITH cops
Another complete 'mirror image' of the society WITHOUT cops.

And their relative crime rates.

And a KB poll to see how this society feels about the remark.

i'd love to see it too. so lets get all the cops in NZ to resign, take their politicians and "justice system" with them, and see how we get along...

given that: there have been cops for ages; and: there has been crime for ages, surely there's a link there...
it couldn't possibly be that the higher-ups use them as patsies to keep the good white folk scared and turning up to work to pay tax to fatten their (politicians') paychecks, that'd be fucking ridiculous.
becuase they're SO powerless to cure "poverty", it's just so difficult. all this money they need to spend on.... cops and policy enforcement. couldn't possibly put it toward the poor.

riddle me this scum pup.
why do people do crime?

[98tls]

'poverty" fuck me theres only one reason theres so much "poverty" in NZ and its nothing to do with the structure of its society.:facepalm:

[mashman]

'poverty" fuck me theres only one reason theres so much "poverty" in NZ and its nothing to do with the structure of its society.:facepalm:

There isn't enough money to go around. The primary reason that there isn't enough money to go around is because of the structure of its society. All that despite the fact that money can, and is, printed as and when the money men decide that it should be. The values of society are its structure, so you're a trollin or just plum hillbilly. You should stick to cross breeding acts n gods mate.

[98tls]

There isn't enough money to go around. The primary reason that there isn't enough money to go around is because of the structure of its society. All that despite the fact that money can, and is, printed as and when the money men decide that it should be. The values of society are its structure, so you're a trollin or just plum hillbilly. You should stick to cross breeding acts n gods mate.

:facepalm:You could print all the money you want fella things would stay the same,those crying poverty would still be broke thered be to fucking lazy to go pick theres up."hillbilly":weep: poor me eh,thing is i am far from poor and the reason for that is i choose not to be,so simple.Poverty,few in NZ would know the meaning of the word but plenty spend spend a lot of breath blaming the structure of its society for it.Fuck the Kiwi as our National emblem/icon those days are long gone lets bludge another ie Ostrich.

[scumdog]

There isn't enough money to go around. The primary reason that there isn't enough money to go around is because of the structure of its society. All that despite the fact that money can, and is, printed as and when the money men decide that it should be. The values of society are its structure, so you're a trollin or just plum hillbilly. You should stick to cross breeding acts n gods mate.

If some people would prioritise the money they have life would be better for them and their kids.

Sky, 56" flat-screen, pokies, Maccas, tinies of cannabis and dozens of Lion Red are not essentials..

[98tls]

If some people would prioritise the money they have life would be better for them and their kids.

Sky, 56" flat-screen, pokies, Maccas, tinies of cannabis and dozens of Lion Red are not essentials..

"working for families":wacko:Still at least my 1st thought when the alarm goes off at 4.30 is "i am making a difference":nya::beer:

[Ocean1]

The primary reason that there isn't enough money to go around is because of the structure of its society.

Yeah. It'd have to be society's fault, eh?

As opposed to just too many lazy bastards not actually earning their keep, fr'instance.

[mashman]

:facepalm:You could print all the money you want fella things would stay the same,those crying poverty would still be broke thered be to fucking lazy to go pick theres up."hillbilly":weep: poor me eh,thing is i am far from poor and the reason for that is i choose not to be,so simple.Poverty,few in NZ would know the meaning of the word but plenty spend spend a lot of breath blaming the structure of its society for it.Fuck the Kiwi as our National emblem/icon those days are long gone lets bludge another ie Ostrich.

I agree with the Ostrich, but not for the same reasons as you probably. How does that work for those who work 2 jobs and barely make ends meet and are frugal with the money that they have? Fuckem as it's their own fault for not being able to do a job that pays any better? The demographic you're highlighting are the majority of the unemployed?


If some people would prioritise the money they have life would be better for them and their kids.

Sky, 56" flat-screen, pokies, Maccas, tinies of cannabis and dozens of Lion Red are not essentials..

See above.


Yeah. It'd have to be society's fault, eh?

As opposed to just too many lazy bastards not actually earning their keep, fr'instance.

Oh good god... yes, there are lazy people, there are many drastically underpaid people, there aren't enough well paying jobs and to that end I fail to see why anyone should work if all they can manage is minimum wage for 12 hours of a day. It's a fuckin insult to human beings and society perpetuates that status quo. That is 100% SOCIETY'S FAULT!!!

[Ocean1]

Oh good god... yes, there are lazy people, there are many drastically underpaid people, there aren't enough well paying jobs and to that end I fail to see why anyone should work if all they can manage is minimum wage for 12 hours of a day. It's a fuckin insult to human beings and society perpetuates that status quo. That is 100% SOCIETY'S FAULT!!!

Show me someone who generates more revenue for the company than he costs in wages. I've got work for him.

The rest? Mebe society's at fault for leading the poor dears to expect more pay than they're actually worth?

[Akzle]

Show me someone who generates more revenue for the company than he costs in wages. I've got work for him.

The rest? Mebe society's at fault for leading the poor dears to expect more pay than they're actually worth?

i've got some free time, and could do with some more money. so i'll swap you eh? you don't even have to worry about OSH, ACC or any of that other bullshit. cos i dont.

[mashman]

Show me someone who generates more revenue for the company than he costs in wages. I've got work for him.

The rest? Mebe society's at fault for leading the poor dears to expect more pay than they're actually worth?

Hmmmmm. I'm guessing every business that hasn't gone bust has members of staff who do that. No members of staff, no production. No profit, no business.

:rofl: coz society values their contribution in $$$ and where society doesn't value their "input", they get paid next to feck all. Faceless and excused as a necessary economic strategy. Seems like the human element i.e. living, is very much a secondary consideration.

[98tls]

I agree with the Ostrich, but not for the same reasons as you probably. How does that work for those who work 2 jobs and barely make ends meet and are frugal with the money that they have? Fuckem as it's their own fault for not being able to do a job that pays any better? The demographic you're highlighting are the majority of the unemployed?

There working the wrong 2 jobs,as for demographics goes without saying eh thing is do they really have to congregate by the suburb in the North island?theres work aplenty in both islands but nope cant be going looking for it would rather settle in a house society subsidises and moan aplenty,the worst being those that managed to get here but cant manage to go further than the welfare in search of the good life.Saddest of all is many of the people we are talking about are as you have pointed to real grafters.

[mashman]

There working the wrong 2 jobs,as for demographics goes without saying eh thing is do they really have to congregate by the suburb in the North island?theres work aplenty in both islands but nope cant be going looking for it would rather settle in a house society subsidises and moan aplenty,the worst being those that managed to get here but cant manage to go further than the welfare in search of the good life.Saddest of all is many of the people we are talking about are as you have pointed to real grafters.

Those jobs have to be done. Someone has to do them. The money won't change, unless they're replaced with one of the kids who will soon be able to be paid less than they currently are. If these jobs aren't done, what is the affect? So, as the 2 jobs need to be done by a grafter, why not pay a decent wage? I Know there are jobs out there, but how does a person move from one area of the country to another where they have no money to begin with? There are people who do that, not everyone will and to be honest not everyone should have to... especially if where you are is where you call home. There still isn't enough work though and certainly not enough well paying work and to deny that is to write society off as a bunch of useless tossers. The saddest part is, that the person grafting hard at two jobs gets fuck all and because of their low salary will most likely be seen as a lazy fuck. Not saying that's what you're highlighting, but there's a HUGE amount of that shot going around and society sets those rules. So I'll still with it being the fault of society and its structure.

[Ocean1]

i've got some free time, and could do with some more money. so i'll swap you eh? you don't even have to worry about OSH, ACC or any of that other bullshit. cos i dont.

PM me your details, if I can find a fit I'll make it happen.


Hmmmmm. I'm guessing every business that hasn't gone bust has members of staff who do that. No members of staff, no production. No profit, no business.

Correct. It takes a reasonable effort by every element of the business, so what?


:rofl: coz society values their contribution in $$$ and where society doesn't value their "input", they get paid next to feck all. Faceless and excused as a necessary economic strategy. Seems like the human element i.e. living, is very much a secondary consideration.

Of course. In what other currency should society value their contriution? Bananas?

If there's no market for their particular skills, (or lack thereof) then there's no possible way to pay them without taking it from someone else. Someone with a very human face.

[98tls]

Those jobs have to be done. Someone has to do them. The money won't change, unless they're replaced with one of the kids who will soon be able to be paid less than they currently are. If these jobs aren't done, what is the affect? So, as the 2 jobs need to be done by a grafter, why not pay a decent wage? I Know there are jobs out there, but how does a person move from one area of the country to another where they have no money to begin with? There are people who do that, not everyone will and to be honest not everyone should have to... especially if where you are is where you call home. There still isn't enough work though and certainly not enough well paying work and to deny that is to write society off as a bunch of useless tossers. The saddest part is, that the person grafting hard at two jobs gets fuck all and because of their low salary will most likely be seen as a lazy fuck. Not saying that's what you're highlighting, but there's a HUGE amount of that shot going around and society sets those rules. So I'll still with it being the fault of society and its structure.

Respect your post,getting the :angry:eyes as i am supposed to be doing something else.Will pick this up later eh.

[mashman]

Correct. It takes a reasonable effort by every element of the business, so what?

Of course. In what other currency should society value their contriution? Bananas?

If there's no market for their particular skills, (or lack thereof) then there's no possible way to pay them without taking it from someone else. Someone with a very human face.

So you have work for everyone in the country. You should be PM, hang on, nope, let me think about that a little longer.

Why bother paying if all jobs are required? Food production, water treatment, electricity generation, cleaners, doctors, binmen, sewer workers etc... all required to keep us ticking over. Who's worth more bananas? Their contribution should be valued equally as each and every job is required to provide elements for every other jobs in the country.

The skills may not be marketable, but that doesn't mean that they are unnecessary. The value system is pooked where one man can consider his contribution more worthy than someone else's by virtue of it having been their idea or their hard graft or their right or because society allows it to be so. We need a change of attitude, then real shit might actually get done for a change... who knows, that may well end up with having cnuts who kill kids otherwise occupied preparing the way for the next generations. Pie in the sky given the way society currently works, but I hope to hell I get myself into a position where I can test that theory.

[mashman]

Respect your post,getting the :angry:eyes as i am supposed to be doing something else.Will pick this up later eh.

Take yer time and enjoy them beeeeeeeeerssssssssss

[madandy]

I phoned a guy this morning offering him work. No chance he replied...he'd gapped it to Christchurch where the work, and money is...there is so much work available and thousands of immigrants will be brought in if the above mentioned fuckers dont grab the bull by the horns and pitch into this society of ours and rebuild our main Southern city!

As for this legal system, Akle and the society you despise, it works for some and doesn't bother a whole lot more. Many would be happy with change but are trucking along just nicely so to all those who cry foul, get off yer collective asses and MAKE a change.

Peace out.

[scumdog]

I Know there are jobs out there, but how does a person move from one area of the country to another where they have no money to begin with? There are people who do that, not everyone will and to be honest not everyone should have to... especially if where you are is where you call home.

So if they don't want to move? - put up with what you have, if you're motivated to 'get ahead' you'll ove - even if only temprarily.

Christchurch shouldn't HAVE to import workers from other countries - hell if THEY are prepared to come there from another country Kiwis should be prepared to move a few 100km - I would.

(Next thing a bunch of racist twats will be 'moanin' 'bout them furriners stealin' our jobs'.)

[mashman]

I phoned a guy this morning offering him work. No chance he replied...he'd gapped it to Christchurch where the work, and money is...there is so much work available and thousands of immigrants will be brought in if the above mentioned fuckers dont grab the bull by the horns and pitch into this society of ours and rebuild our main Southern city!

As for this legal system, Akle and the society you despise, it works for some and doesn't bother a whole lot more. Many would be happy with change but are trucking along just nicely so to all those who cry foul, get off yer collective asses and MAKE a change.

Peace out.

Why should people move from their homes and their lives? Perhaps money isn't everything?

We have representatives to do that kind of thing for us. How do you change that? because they hold the purse strings.

[scumdog]

Why should people move from their homes and their lives? Perhaps money isn't everything?.

No, money isn't everything - but the ones that think that and don't want to move for more $$ should never complain if they feel deprived.

[Ocean1]

The skills may not be marketable, but that doesn't mean that they are unnecessary.

Yes, I'm afraid that it does.

The fact that nobody finds it worth the asking rate suggests exactly that, their skills, (again, or lack of them) are unnecessary.

Otherwise they'd be working, innit?

[mashman]

So if they don't want to move? - put up with what you have, if you're motivated to 'get ahead' you'll ove - even if only temprarily.

Christchurch shouldn't HAVE to import workers from other countries - hell if THEY are prepared to come there from another country Kiwis should be prepared to move a few 100km - I would.

(Next thing a bunch of racist twats will be 'moanin' 'bout them furriners stealin' our jobs'.)

Why do people need to want to get ahead? Perhaps they're happy where they are with what they have?

I agree... and I wasn't far from taking a job in Chch last year. Fortunately picked something up locally so I could stay with my family. I'd rather be broke with them than earning mega bucks and away from them. Does that mean I'm a lazy cunt?

I already have one of your jobs.

[mashman]

No, money isn't everything - but the ones that think that and don't want to move for more $$ should never complain if they feel deprived.

There's more to life scummy.


Yes, I'm afraid that it does.

The fact that nobody finds it worth the asking rate suggests exactly that, their skills, (again, or lack of them) are unnecessary.

Otherwise they'd be working, innit?

That's our loss and a few's gain.

So why is the job there?

Only if there are jobs for everyone at decent rates.

[_Shrek_]

And his mother was scared for her little boy... but not scared enough todo anything about it.
When will women in this country learn? Having no father figure is better than an abuser.

have you heard of "battered woman syndrome" coz there is a shit load of woman out there with it, little quips (like the one above) don't help them after they or their little ones have suffered,


The primary reason that there isn't enough money to go around is because
is there are to many lazy bistards etc.... flogging the dole, sickness etc...

living & working in Auckland I did line haul.... got payed $7.32 phr that was mid 80's to 90 &
worked 118 hrs a week while the lazy prick next door got payed the same(800) for doing jack shit, & his attitude was why should I
& I see no change in their attitudes in the last 20 + years, except they now blame us for their drinking, gambling & drug problem because they have nothing to do, then take it out on the innocent because they're to weak to face up to what they have become

& the pc brgade jumps in & says we need more money for these poor folk blah blah blah,

take the ........ out the back save the tax payer $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ if they are found guilty & after a year or two we will see a big reduction in most areas

[scumdog]

Why do people need to want to get ahead? Perhaps they're happy where they are with what they have?

I agree... and I wasn't far from taking a job in Chch last year. Fortunately picked something up locally so I could stay with my family. I'd rather be broke with them than earning mega bucks and away from them. Does that mean I'm a lazy cunt?

I already have one of your jobs.

I was'nt suggesting the 'wife-n-kids part of the family be left behinb by any means - they can move too - OK itmight mean leaving grandparents and cuzzies behind, as I mentioned, possibly temporarily.

[scumdog]

There's more to life scummy..

Perzactly what I was hinting at - only I added if money is not your bag and you can't be naffed working for it then don't complain whe you don't have enough.

If you can happily live without it good on you.

[Ocean1]

So why is the job there?

Only if there are jobs for everyone at decent rates.

That's only difficult to understand if you insist that every man's work is worth the same.

In the real world people find they can afford to have someone build them a fence, for example, for say $1000. But if it costs too much more they'll either decide it's not worth the cost, or perhaps thay'll do it themselves.

The work's ALWAYS there if you want it. But you'll be working for whatever the market offers.

So the real trick is to arm yourself with as valuable a set of skills as you can manage.


Or go hungry.

[mashman]

is there are to many lazy bistards etc.... flogging the dole, sickness etc...

living & working in Auckland I did line haul.... got payed $7.32 phr that was mid 80's to 90 &
worked 118 hrs a week while the lazy prick next door got payed the same(800) for doing jack shit, & his attitude was why should I
& I see no change in their attitudes in the last 20 + years, except they now blame us for their drinking, gambling & drug problem because they have nothing to do, then take it out on the innocent because they're to weak to face up to what they have become

& the pc brgade jumps in & says we need more money for these poor folk blah blah blah,

take the ........ out the back save the tax payer $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ if they are found guilty & after a year or two we will see a big reduction in most areas

They are a tiny portion of the country and as mentioned many many many times before and even admitted by the govt, there aren't enough jobs to go around, let alone well paid ones. To the extent where they're legislating for lower wages for "kids" :facepalm: and trying to force them into work if they don't have a good enough excuse not to. Oh the joys of this society.

Ahhhh, the days of free education, affordable accommodation, affordable drink and food, plenty of "well paid" jobs etc... nothing like equating then to now. The only thing that has changed is that the cost of living v's a living wage has changed in favour of the cost of living. There will always be drinking problems (not restricted to "them), gambling problems (stock market with billions of spare change lost) etc...

The PC brigade? haven't heard that one in a while, although it does seem to go hand in hand with someone bleating about the good old days. Do you refuse to accept that life is more difficult these days? Granted "it's" still doable and people can still achieve, but the well paid jobs just aren't there for everyone to do so.

Then hyperinflation ensues and we carry on in a vicious circle until you are the one that's being dragged out the back.

[RDJ]

To continue where Ocean1 left off: .... because anybody who wants to work but doesn't want to work for the going rate commensurate with his or her skills, is expecting someone else to work and produce extra, have it taken by the taxman, Government overhead and inefficiency to further reduce what is left over, and Govt to hand it out back to him/her to subsidise his/her lack of work ethic. That sounds harsh, but reality can't be negotiated with. It can be ignored for a time... But in the long run, something which can't continue, won't.

[mashman]

I was'nt suggesting the 'wife-n-kids part of the family be left behinb by any means - they can move too - OK itmight mean leaving grandparents and cuzzies behind, as I mentioned, possibly temporarily.

Perzactly what I was hinting at - only I added if money is not your bag and you can't be naffed working for it then don't complain whe you don't have enough.

If you can happily live without it good on you.

I wasn't suggesting that you were. When was the last time you discussed moving your family? It's more than the friends and the family etc... a mental state if you like. Why move if you're "happy"?

I'll remember to pass that on to every housewife/husband the next time they get together for a drinky. Get a job, I don't care that it'll cost more in childcare than you'll earn, but at least you'll have the right to complain :facepalm:

I'd love to... but I have a family to prepare a future for.


That's only difficult to understand if you insist that every man's work is worth the same.

In the real world people find they can afford to have someone build them a fence, for example, for say $1000. But if it costs too much more they'll either decide it's not worth the cost, or perhaps thay'll do it themselves.

The work's ALWAYS there if you want it. But you'll be working for whatever the market offers.

So the real trick is to arm yourself with as valuable a set of skills as you can manage.

Or go hungry.

Oh I understand it, yet I still value the time and effort of every job just as equally as my own... but I'm not the one paying the wages. As I said earlier, start to remove what some people require and some deem unnecessary and it'll turn into a cluster fuck.

I built a fence once. 70m of it. Fucked my a muscle in my ribs somewhere drilling through compacted clay with the auger, but hey, the fence went up. My mate was stood over me laughing and everytime I laughed it hurt like fooken hell. Anyways, the real world is fucked and getting more and more fuckdered by the day. At some point we're gonna have to start building fences because they need to be built, not because it's nice to have one.

That is the bit I refuse to accept as common sense. The market is a sham. Yes it's the real world, but it's still an absolute sham and society and its structure keep it that way because of our ignorance of what it is and our preconceptions of what others are worth. Damn we'd be so much better off without it.

Nah, that's the easy bit if you're willing as you say, expensive these days, but what isn't. The trick is accepting that there are people who for whatever don't work, realising that there aren't enough jobs for everyone and realising that the lazy fucks should be catered for too. Depending on how you do it who knows, the lazy fucks might actually chip in some. Guess we'll never know as the market won't allow it.

Dooooooooomed to absolute failure and could take us with them should they decide to kill the farmers and eat the produce.

[madandy]

And so everyone in the new system wants a RSV like yours, a BMW car, a swimming pool in the back yard.etc etc....how?

[RDJ]

And so everyone in the new system wants a RSV like yours, a BMW car, a swimming pool in the back yard.etc etc....how?

For a lot of people - OPM (Other People's Money). The felon who killed the boy looked fit enough to work, but was he working? I understand from news reports he was paid to lie around the home on OPM..

[mashman]

And so everyone in the new system wants a RSV like yours, a BMW car, a swimming pool in the back yard.etc etc....how?

Build them. You need manpower and resources. There will have to be a class test for those who want an RSV though.

[Ocean1]

That is the bit I refuse to accept as common sense. The market is a sham. Yes it's the real world, but it's still an absolute sham and society and its structure keep it that way because of our ignorance of what it is and our preconceptions of what others are worth.

The only ignorance around here is that of asserting that anyone is too good to be exposed to the real value of their work. And whatever they're worth as a person the work they do does have real value, however you want to pay for it.

[mashman]

The only ignorance around here is that of asserting that anyone is too good to be exposed to the real value of their work. And whatever they're worth as a person the work they do does have real value, however you want to pay for it.

Ya kinda lost me there. Me needs small words with meaning.

[RDJ]

Ya kinda lost me there. Me needs small words with meaning.

I shall try: I work for a company that pays me what they think my work is worth to them - what our customers will pay, not what I think my work is worth. If I don't think they're paying me enough, I can go elsewhere to look for more money. Feeling that I "deserve it" (deserve more) is not going to persuade the company to pay me more.

As they say, "he who wishes to rob Peter to pay Paul, will always have the support of Paul".

[_Shrek_]

They are a tiny portion of the country and as mentioned many many many times before and even admitted by the govt, there aren't enough jobs to go around, let alone well paid ones. To the extent where they're legislating for lower wages for "kids" :facepalm: and trying to force them into work if they don't have a good enough excuse not to. Oh the joys of this society.

Ahhhh, the days of free education, affordable accommodation, affordable drink and food, plenty of "well paid" jobs etc... nothing like equating then to now. The only thing that has changed is that the cost of living v's a living wage has changed in favour of the cost of living. There will always be drinking problems (not restricted to "them), gambling problems (stock market with billions of spare change lost) etc...

The PC brigade? haven't heard that one in a while, although it does seem to go hand in hand with someone bleating about the good old days. Do you refuse to accept that life is more difficult these days? Granted "it's" still doable and people can still achieve, but the well paid jobs just aren't there for everyone to do so.

Then hyperinflation ensues and we carry on in a vicious circle until you are the one that's being dragged out the back.

i've said nothing about the good old days & it's no tougher now than it was then, you can manage if you have to, no it's not easy but it is do-able, I've never owned a home or any other property but we've had a fairly good life with ups & downs, in fact I think we're better off now as we only have one kid left at home we own our bikes & can move when ever we want :Punk:

& the tiny portion you say is only the tip, you have govt people ripping the system, big companys not paying tax, single mums/dads on the DPB & living with a partner etc & who cops it the little man/woman who goes out every day to work & pays his/her tax on a average to low income

there are still good jobs around if you're willing to move, they're importing workers for CHCH rebuild (well paid in alot of areas), orchard work (average) all over the sth Is, so the work is here all you have to do is get off your backside & find it, it may not be the one you want to be in for the next 20years etc... but it is a start... & it does give you self worth to be working, so you can break the vicious circle if you have the balls to try

[Akzle]

have you heard of "battered woman syndrome"

& the pc brgade jumps in & says we need more money for these poor folk blah blah blah,

have you heard of "grow a fucking spine" synodrome. it usually affects people growing up. if, for some reason, one fails to grow a spine, who's fault is that? couldn't possibly be the system that they were "educated" by.

poor folk need money. well. in your society, yes. but in your society, you also need poor folk. if everyone was rich, balancing the books would be a f@cking nightmare, least of all a'cos none of them would be paying tax. ><

there are those who choose not to work. if you have a vagina, it's real easy. (and pays well, too)

the current "unemployment benefit" is 186$ a week. i challenge any of you to draw up a budget that accommodates that income.
so it's no wonder people scam the system. it's no wonder people want to pinch your TV to supplement that income.
if you don't want people "dependent on the system" - don't make them dependent on it.
and POOF, there goes half the money you spend on cops to chow doughnuts //er chase their ass // err, find and persecute //err, prosecute these crims.



So the real trick is to arm yourself with as valuable a set of skills as you can manage.


Or go hungry.
my skillset includes trapping, hunting, fishing and gardening. the likelihood of me gowing hungry is slim.
valuable? yes.
monetarily so? no.
i can also chase cows pretty good... valuable.. not really. pays? yah...



...should they decide to kill the farmers and eat the produce. it's okay. we've got guns. lots of guns.


And so everyone in the new system wants a RSV like yours, a BMW car, a swimming pool in the back yard.etc etc....how?
a) you think everyone would?? (i sre as shit don't)
b) it would happen, much as mashy says.

Build them. You need manpower and resources. There will have to be a class test for those who want an RSV though.
yes. anyone who scores more than 30% class isn't allowed one!

[_Shrek_]

have you heard of "grow a fucking spine" synodrome. it usually affects people growing up. if, for some reason, one fails to grow a spine, who's fault is that? couldn't possibly be the system that they were "educated" by.

poor folk need money. well. in your society, yes. but in your society, you also need poor folk. if everyone was rich, balancing the books would be a f@cking nightmare, least of all a'cos none of them would be paying tax. ><

there are those who choose not to work. if you have a vagina, it's real easy. (and pays well, too)

the current "unemployment benefit" is 186$ a week. i challenge any of you to draw up a budget that accommodates that income.
so it's no wonder people scam the system. it's no wonder people want to pinch your TV to supplement that income.
if you don't want people "dependent on the system" - don't make them dependent on it.
and POOF, there goes half the money you spend on cops to chow doughnuts //er chase their ass // err, find and persecute //err, prosecute these crims.

grow a back bone like yours you mean great tui add, it's because of sad arses like who winge & bitch because they pay you what you're actualy worth, instead of getting out there & doing some thing about it, you would sooner knock every one who has, get a life sonny & start to live :corn:

[Banditbandit]

Oh Oh Oh ... Where to start ...


If some people would prioritise the money they have life would be better for them and their kids.

Sky, 56" flat-screen, pokies, Maccas, tinies of cannabis and dozens of Lion Red are not essentials..

And the same applies the other way ... A $10million house is not a necessity either ... there are now something like 12 suburbs in Orcland wth an average house price above $1million - that's a lot of money tied up in bricks and mortar and not wandering around in the money system .. and we wonder why there is not much money around .. and what happened to "things are tight right now" .. there seems to be plenty of money for SOME people to buy houses in Orcland ... where house rpices just keep going up ..


Yeah. It'd have to be society's fault, eh?

As opposed to just too many lazy bastards not actually earning their keep, fr'instance.

It's both - lazy bastards and the heirachical structural nature of our society - it doesn't need to be one or the other, as some people think - it can be both ..


Show me someone who generates more revenue for the company than he costs in wages. I've got work for him.

Tell me - how much do the capitalist bosses generate? Invest the money in a company, go and play golf (I'm being a little facetious there) while the workers produce the goods with the sweat of their brows (metophorical) and get wages - while the capitalist rakes off the cream ... and buys a $10million house on Paratai Drive so he can look across the valley at the living conditions of the people he pays shit wages to.



The rest? Mebe society's at fault for leading the poor dears to expect more pay than they're actually worth?

WHat is the value of a human being? When one gets killed its millions - when one human being needs a job it is FUCK ALL!



The fact that nobody finds it worth the asking rate suggests exactly that, their skills, (again, or lack of them) are unnecessary.

Otherwise they'd be working, innit?

THe same serntence applies to workers - when the job is not worth the going rate why sign on?


That's only difficult to understand if you insist that every man's work is worth the same.

No no - that;s paert of the propoganda system that keeps the capitalist heirachy in place - and suckers like you have bought into it .. why would one person's work be worth more than another person's work? JUst because one person can do X and the otrher can do Y? THat's bullshit ..


In the real world people find they can afford to have someone build them a fence, for example, for say $1000. But if it costs too much more they'll either decide it's not worth the cost, or perhaps thay'll do it themselves.

The work's ALWAYS there if you want it. But you'll be working for whatever the market offers.

So the real trick is to arm yourself with as valuable a set of skills as you can manage.


Or go hungry.

In our "real world" that is true - but it doesn't have to be that way ... we can structure our society differently

I agree - let idle people starve .. but why should one worker get paid more than an other worker for "eight hours fair work" just because they do different jobs? Or were born with different abilities?

[mashman]

i've said nothing about the good old days & it's no tougher now than it was then, you can manage if you have to, no it's not easy but it is do-able, I've never owned a home or any other property but we've had a fairly good life with ups & downs, in fact I think we're better off now as we only have one kid left at home we own our bikes & can move when ever we want :Punk:

& the tiny portion you say is only the tip, you have govt people ripping the system, big companys not paying tax, single mums/dads on the DPB & living with a partner etc & who cops it the little man/woman who goes out every day to work & pays his/her tax on a average to low income

there are still good jobs around if you're willing to move, they're importing workers for CHCH rebuild (well paid in alot of areas), orchard work (average) all over the sth Is, so the work is here all you have to do is get off your backside & find it, it may not be the one you want to be in for the next 20years etc... but it is a start... & it does give you self worth to be working, so you can break the vicious circle if you have the balls to try

I read 80's and 90's and blacked out. My apologies.

I agree it's doable, but I'd argue that it's an unnecessary position to put people in. We need to work to earn money to eat. The jobs that pay well have people in them, they don't want to move because it fuels their lifestyle. Not enough of those types of jobs are newly created. The opposite seems to be true these days. So you end up with people who are working (yes there are lazy feckers) but don't earn enough and have to claim from the state, WFF etc... There are also those who limit their tax liability for whatever reasons. This leaves less and less money available in order to "pay" those who would like to get ahead. For this to happen a well paying job needs to become available. It's an unnecessary position to put a person in given that they are working imho. It's not a reflection on the person.

You're right, there are many people "on the take". Hardly surprising given that money is everything. Yes it's those who earn big bucks who pay the lions share of taxation, but I don't begrudge that as those who are "less fortunate" need to eat etc... even the lazy feckers. The alternative isn't pretty ugly for those ("us") who get in the way of "desperate" people wanting to put food on the table/a 55" TV in every room etc... That needs to be dealt with, not legislated for.

Having the balls to try and wanting to uproot your entire life for money is a sad state of affairs. I can't believe that we actually expect people to do this. Sure if there's a need to rebuild Chch vast swathes of the population should arrive their tools in hand and just get on with it. However your society makes this a long hard slog. You need money to start with. Then you need trained people due to safety concerns and only wanting to pay good money for "qualified" workers else you end up with monkeys and potentially shoddy build issues. the move is the tip of the iceberg. That and any rational person would see moving their family to an active earthquake zone as madness. Society drives how these issues are approached. It's not down tools let's get stuck in and help these people. It's, hey, here's lots of money for you to earn, come earn it if you like, the people of Chch can wait. If society is works according to "my" model, I'd be down there with my tent offering whatever skills I have (labourer) and helping people get their lives back on track after a disaster. It isn't, hence we have what we have and we all scramble to grasp a big a part of the pot as we can.

This is why your society has financially related crime and the associated social issues. I don't appreciate your society because the associated social issues from your society spill across into my society, and needlessly so according to the "rules and regs" of my society.