Fathers beware - don't cuddle or play with your kids in public!

[PrincessBandit]

On the net this afternoon:


Some 300 people are enjoying hot summer days at McKee Domain near Ruby Bay as a father is at the playground with his daughters.

It is a classic Kiwi setting, with happy campers, barbecues and children playing.

Then comes something out of place, a police constable asking questions. The idyllic illusion is shattered.

Strangers claim to have seen the man, in broad daylight, behaving inappropriately with a girl.

The campers report this to the reserve caretaker who informs the police.

The allegations include kissing, rubbing her bottom and allowing the 10-year-old to rub his thigh and chest.

The flabbergasted man says he didn't do anything wrong, the daughter named as his victim says he didn't, and his wife says he didn't.

They cannot be identified for legal reasons although they would be happy to be.

The father said even as the constable questioned him at the campground, one of the three daughters jumped up and kissed him, and poked her finger through a small hole in his shirt saying "tickle, tickle".

It was an example of the type of behaviour the campers must have seen, but there was nothing wrong with it, he said.

Police did not take any action then and the family laughed about the misunderstanding, until police came knocking on their door three months later, in March last year.

Since then the police have pursued the case. Even when two justices of the peace threw it out, the police went to the High Court to get the charges relaid.

This is only the first few paragraphs of the article, but geez can't we all see that men are only going to get even more paranoid about their behaviour around kids - even their own!!! - if this kind of shit is going to start happening. Not unsurprisingly high profile cases of abuse make even the most mild mannered playing come under scrutiny when members of the public feel compelled (by law) to report any "suspicious behaviour" for fear of getting in the shit themselves for not "coming forward" or "doing the right thing" on the remote chance that a child might be being molested.

I don't see how we are going to get out of this hole that is being dug for society whereby "normal" playing behaviour is suddenly being viewed with suspicion and distrust. What an apparent travesty of justice that the police have caused such grief probably so they don't get accused of some sort of negligence.

[Mom]

We live in a sick, PC, gone mad world! This is the continuance of the castration of men in regard to their children. I know situations where a father has stopped bathing his little girls for fear of being accused of molesting them. Fathers who wont tuck their kids into bed at night, fathers who wont toilet his kids. How unfair and damaging to the father child relationship if simple personal parenting is denied them. It makes me very, very sad to read this sort of thing. Here we are as a society horrified about child violence, and on the flip side seemingly horrified by affectionate fathers playing whith his kids.

Some people, the police included need to actually stop, take a deep breath and re-evaluate priorities.

[mashman]

I suppose I better stop throwing my girls over my shoulder and biting their arse then. It is sad that public displays of affection are being weeded out of society and I'd go all social engineering conspiracy theory with teachers not being able to give kids a hug to sooth them, kids not being allowed to hug or shake hands in the playground, and any other form of detachment that authority dream up to avoid the possible risk of legal ramifications... but it'd serve next to no purpose even though that seems to be the way we're going. The future looks to be man and wife creating a baby in a test tube after having their personality's scrutinised over the first 30 years of their life before being granted a license to have kids as long as they're reared in strict bubble conditions by the book and only ever told to harden the fuck up or fear losing their license. It's a nasty way to look at it, but where does the sort of thinking end where physical contact becomes socially unacceptable?

[Edbear]

Makes me wonder about cuddling my baby Grandson in public!

[FJRider]

Even "Pillars of Society" can be deluded in their thinking ... they are doing the right thing.

More often than not ... those same "Pillars of Society" don't want to have their names known ... or to be linked to the reporting.

[Subike]

This is the reason I dont visit my own grandchildren, their grand mother has such a hate session on me , which has poisoned my daughter in laws mind, that even being in the same room for me is now a risk. I am not going over the top either. accusations have already been suggested!
It is also the reason I am still a single person, I dare not risk a relationship where children, (especially girls) are involved, or grandchildren.
One difference of opinion and I could be accused of something......Safer being single and hiring a girl once a month. Least Im safe.
Such is the price of our society,

[Oakie]

And be careful if you take your grandaughter to the playground and take photos of her playing. (Don't ask me how I know.)

[Subike]

And be careful if you take your grandaughter to the playground and take photos of her playing. (Don't ask me how I know.)

That would be asking for an instant 5 year prison sentence, and then released to a state house on prison property!

[Woodman]

Yea read that article in the paper tonight. I feel sorry for the guy and yes its a PC gone mad world but this case is another example of the Police going after a conviction instead of the truth. There were so many witnesses that offered support to the guy but the police just ignored them. The witnesses that they did listen to, to support the prosecution couldn't even agree on what the girl was wearing or her height, but STILL the police went ahead with a prosecution.

[FROSTY]

My reaction to that--THEY CAN ALL GO FUCK THEMSELVES AND THEIR DIRTY MINDS.
Tell me I can't cuddle my kids and brother you got a war on your hands.
Seriously folks WE are society.Its up to us to make it clear we don't accept the ravings of some dirty minded pervert.

[Mom]

I suppose I better stop throwing my girls over my shoulder and biting their arse then.

I used to tell my kids openly, if they continued what they were doing I was going to snap their arms and legs off and beat them to death with them. Dont you dare stop biting bums!


Makes me wonder about cuddling my baby Grandson in public!

Dont FFS stop! Honestly this is madness.


I am not going over the top either. Least Im safe.
Such is the price of our society,

Your poor bastard. I honestly can not understand where the hell we went wrong.


And be careful if you take your grandaughter to the playground and take photos of her playing. (Don't ask me how I know.)

Photos are another thing altogether. Sad shit!


but STILL the police went ahead with a prosecution.

Imagine though, if some sort of abuse was happening and they did nothing? Rock and Hard place anyone?

What the hell is the solution?

[yod]

My reaction to that--THEY CAN ALL GO FUCK THEMSELVES AND THEIR DIRTY MINDS.
Tell me I can't cuddle my kids and brother you got a war on your hands.
Seriously folks WE are society.Its up to us to make it clear we don't accept the ravings of some dirty minded pervert.

you cuddle your brother?

[Edbear]

you cuddle your brother?

Well not cuddle, more like hug, but I do for sure, brother, son, sons-in-law, close friends! Cuddling is reserved for grandsons and Mrs. Bear... :yes:

[Tigadee]

I think people who are against public [or any] displays of affection by fathers for their children must have been deprived of that as children, and so out of jealousy and spite, create such a hateful bitter atmosphere of puritanical handicapping of fathers...:(

I wonder what they'll think of the dutch culture of family members kissing each other on the lips?

[mashman]

And be careful if you take your grandaughter to the playground and take photos of her playing. (Don't ask me how I know.)

I was stunned with this 4 years ago in the UK. We took my 4 and my 2 nieces to one of them thar indoor gym places. Popped out the camera and started taking pics of the kids having fun and was told that I wasn't allowed to. I got a might tad pissed off and had a chat with the supervisor asking if they could explain their use of surveillance cameras to watch everyone's kids. My wife and mum rescued me from further debate. Funny, now that I come to think of it, it was the same time I decided that the lady behind the counter that wouldn't sell me medicine for my 2 yr old (even though it had 2+ on the bottle) was being fuckin ridiculous. Much to my dads amusement I decided that the medicine was for my 6 yr old and was denied that too, much to my disappointment and grumblings. Come to think of it, that was the start of my change of mind... go figure.

[mashman]

I think people who are against public [or any] displays of affection by fathers for their children must have been deprived of that as children, and so out of jealousy and spite, create such a hateful bitter atmosphere of puritanical handicapping of fathers...:(

I wonder what they'll think of the dutch culture of family members kissing each other on the lips?

Yeah, nah. My dad wasn't affectionate from what I remember... it's more likely those who have the attitude of kids being seen and not heard... of which their are too many. Those who have forgotten what it's like to play.

[James Deuce]

I personally think that the female detective responsible for the case has "issues".

How about White Ribbon doing a find raising exercise for this family and shouting them a trip to Disneyland. Or would that be admitting that not all men are pieces of shit?

[Disco Dan]

Last weekend I was at the park with my son. He was on the swing, I was taking photos - saw a couple of people (parents) watching me take the photos.

Few minutes later he was running around with me and fell - he wanted a quick hug then he said 'i'm okay daddy" and kissed me on the lips (he's 2.5yrs).

Nothing wrong with that IMO - but the watching parents... who knows what they could be thinking!

Sad world indeed.

[Jantar]

.... I honestly can not understand where the hell we went wrong. ....

One of the reasons that I decided a teaching career was not for me. For a male it isn't safe to be alone with a young female at any time, and as this case shows it isn't even safe for a father to be with his own kids. I believe it started when education became femininist dominated, and it has already gone so far that any male who suggests a swing back the other way is automatically labled a peadophile.

[duckonin]

My reaction to that--THEY CAN ALL GO FUCK THEMSELVES AND THEIR DIRTY MINDS.
Tell me I can't cuddle my kids and brother you got a war on your hands.
Seriously folks WE are society.Its up to us to make it clear we don't accept the ravings of some dirty minded pervert.

Yep go along with you 100%. But when those dirty minded pricks make a complaint it all turns to custard. Cops lose the plot like a bunch of over enthusiastic pig-dogs.

[tbs]

I won't ever stop cuddling my kids.... Anywhere and any time I damn well want.
If I ever get in trouble over it then I'll make it my personal crusade, and the bastards had better be ready. Genuine affection is the single biggest need we have as human beings, (ok, after food and stuff obviously) and we gotta get it in spades from the get-go.

If you ever look around you and wonder why the world is so screwed up; why violence, depression, and suicide are all on the rise, then look no further. We need to know we are loved. When we understand what it is to be loved, we can love others. When we know what it is to go without love, we'll want others to experience that too. It's really very simple.


Interestingly, I had to take my son to Starship a couple of months ago, to the neural ward for some tests. One of the nurses quietly pulled my wife aside and asked her if I ever beat her or the kids. No-one asked me.

[Mom]

One of the reasons that I decided a teaching career was not for me. For a male it isn't safe to be alone with a young female at any time, and as this case shows it isn't even safe for a father to be with his own kids. I believe it started when education became femininist dominated, and it has already gone so far that any male who suggests a swing back the other way is automatically labled a peadophile.

I have been accused of having hairy pits and legs ( I dont have red hair or that wwould have been on the list :)) But I am not man hater. Dont you dare patronise me, but by Christ I will leap to your defense if I see you being accused of this sort of crap. I wont apologise for the feminist movement at all. I burned the odd bra a few years ago :pinch: It needed to happen, but I dont think this is being driven by feminists either. I think this sort of shit is being driven by really insecure, screwed up, emotional females that frankly need a good root!

[Subike]

I gets even sadder when you dare not even comment in any direction on the topic because of the label it instantly stamps on you no matter what you view is, if you are a middle aged, white, single male.

[Mom]

I gets even sadder when you dare not even comment in any direction on the topic because of the label it instantly stamps on you no matter what you view is, if you are a middle aged, white, single male.

Far Canal! Dont be a fucken victim of this shit!

[Mom]

I won't ever stop cuddling my kids....

Good on you!


Interestingly, I had to take my son to Starship a couple of months ago, to the neural ward for some tests. One of the nurses quietly pulled my wife aside and asked her if I ever beat her or the kids. No-one asked me.

I have spent far too much time in hospitals over the last little while. I also got asked if I wanted to talk about abuse at home when I arrived in an ambulance after a collapse at work. No, no I dont! I dont actually have a problem with this one, it may actually be the one safe place that a person can yes, there is a problem.

[caseye]

All three of our kids were girls, twins first up.
I Did it all from day one.Changing em, burping em, feeding em, toilet training em, teaching em to wash everywhere and look after themselves properly.Christ you wouldn't think so to see their rooms now.
God help the fucked up moron who tells me I can't tickle my 20 yr olds or their nearly 18 yr old younger sister.
Never let what other fuckwits think affect how you treat your kids, or your brothers kids or any of your friends kids.
If they are your friends then their kids are! your kids.

[Gremlin]

I gets even sadder when you dare not even comment in any direction on the topic because of the label it instantly stamps on you no matter what you view is, if you are a middle aged, white, single male.
Nonsense, continue to do so. It's the best way of identifying all the people you need to avoid/ignore :D

I'm single, so no issue with kids yet, but fucked what anyone else thinks. Kids are the priority and I'll do what's best for them.

[Brian d marge]

Im so glad a boot up the arse cant be misconstrued.......or i would have been in trouble

stephen

[Akzle]

is it bad that my elder enjoys being hit?:eek:

i've met too many women with daddy issues, i'm not going to pass that on to mine.

touch is an important form of humanoid communication, either good touching or bad touching. i'll smack my kids or twist an ear as soon as hug, tickle, blow rasberries or kiss em.
anyone who wants to raise an objection is welcome to KMA!
(kiss my ass)

[Akzle]

oh. and this BS is due to the over feminsation of teh "society", kids get enough "mum" at home, (i realise this is changing, and now most kids lack any kind of parent at home) they don't need it at school or in the workplace.
the "justice" system, esp the "family" courts paint a picture that anything with a penis is evil. they've been responsible for the breakdown of the traditional (and i believe important) family unit (mum, dad and 2.4 kids, picket fence and a puppy, kinda unit)

the whole "governace" thing has been off since the inception of christianity, they told all the pagans to stop worshiping the earth mother (eternal, giving etc) and bow down before the material father (do as i say and i won't punish you - in hell!), now the church has faded out and government is stepping into the shoes of dad, the head of the family unit.
i'm not buying it.

[JimO]

and yet the Kahui twins murderer walks free

[Woodman]

and yet the Kahui twins murderer walks free

exactly, I wonder how much time did the police spend on this case trying to justify a conviction.

How do investigations work? My understanding is that the police gather the evidence, then prosecute, then the defendants Lawyer picks over the polices gathered evidence. But if the Police ignore evidence because they want to convict the person no matter what (Scott Watson anyone) then the lawyers will not really have much in their favour will they.

Doesn't seem fair to me if this is how it works. Happy to be educated though.

[FROSTY]

Yep go along with you 100%. But when those dirty minded pricks make a complaint it all turns to custard. Cops lose the plot like a bunch of over enthusiastic pig-dogs.

Sorry if I sound like some militant ass but I say "bring it". Letting the tail wag the dog is a pretty idiotic way to run a society.

[Headbanger]

What the fuck?

First we weren't allowed to beat our kids in public?

And now we can't molest them either?


Countries fucked.

[007XX]

is it bad that my elder enjoys being hit?:eek:

i've met too many women with daddy issues, i'm not going to pass that on to mine.

touch is an important form of humanoid communication, either good touching or bad touching. i'll smack my kids or twist an ear as soon as hug, tickle, blow rasberries or kiss em.
anyone who wants to raise an objection is welcome to KMA!
(kiss my ass)


oh. and this BS is due to the over feminsation of teh "society", kids get enough "mum" at home, (i realise this is changing, and now most kids lack any kind of parent at home) they don't need it at school or in the workplace.
the "justice" system, esp the "family" courts paint a picture that anything with a penis is evil. they've been responsible for the breakdown of the traditional (and i believe important) family unit (mum, dad and 2.4 kids, picket fence and a puppy, kinda unit)

the whole "governace" thing has been off since the inception of christianity, they told all the pagans to stop worshiping the earth mother (eternal, giving etc) and bow down before the material father (do as i say and i won't punish you - in hell!), now the church has faded out and government is stepping into the shoes of dad, the head of the family unit.
i'm not buying it.


Sorry if I sound like some militant ass but I say "bring it". Letting the tail wag the dog is a pretty idiotic way to run a society.


Exactly!! The posts quoted above sum up nicely my thoughts on this topic.

Hubby and I have actually had to discuss this, and change our behaviour accordingly in public with our 3 1/2 year old little girl.

A- she's a handful (poor kid, look at her mother), so a boot up the bum in public is often tempting.

B- she's a very affectionate cutie pie, so not cuddling her in public is near ny impossible.


To say that it positively infuriates me we can't be ourselves because of other people's twisted take on "right and wrong" would be a massive understatement. But what are the alternatives? Seeing our family torn apart? With possibly one or both of us serving prison time and my kids sent to foster homes.

It just doesn't bear thinking about.

[Virago]

...I wonder what they'll think of the dutch culture of family members kissing each other on the lips?

Umm, didn't realise that was reserved for the Dutch. Oops...

I'm the father of two girls - grown up now (mid-twenties). Once in a while they'll come over and give me a quick peck on the lips. Anyone who perceives it as sexual or inappropriate is fucked in the head.

I'll also give my old mum a quick peck on occasion.

[MIXONE]

What the fuck?

First we weren't allowed to beat our kids in public?

And now we can't molest them either?


Countries fucked.

My son asked me if I didn't love him as I'd never touched him up!

[Katman]

What the fuck?

First we weren't allowed to beat our kids in public?

And now we can't molest them either?


Countries fucked.

I love kids - but I couldn't eat a whole one.

[FJRider]

I love kids - but I couldn't eat a whole one.

They need Garlic ... :shifty:

[PrincessBandit]

I love kids - but I couldn't eat a whole one.

The bipedal ones or quadrupeds? Or both? :dodge:

[hellokitty]

Interestingly, I had to take my son to Starship a couple of months ago, to the neural ward for some tests. One of the nurses quietly pulled my wife aside and asked her if I ever beat her or the kids. No-one asked me.


I have spent far too much time in hospitals over the last little while. I also got asked if I wanted to talk about abuse at home when I arrived in an ambulance after a collapse at work. No, no I dont! I dont actually have a problem with this one, it may actually be the one safe place that a person can yes, there is a problem.

I had minor sugery a few months back, and they like to document any bruising you may have before surgery. I got the "talk" about the large amount of bruising all over my legs and ass.... they looked at me strangely when I told them I dropped my motorbike and was laying under it, which is what caused the bruises. Plus the footpeg bruises, getting used to the change from a cruiser to a sports tourer. FFS


I'm the father of two girls - grown up now (mid-twenties). Once in a while they'll come over and give me a quick peck on the lips. Anyone who perceives it as sexual or inappropriate is fucked in the head.

I'll also give my old mum a quick peck on occasion.

I always kiss my Daddy and hug him - as well as affection, it is a sign of respect and recognition "This is my Dad"

[Berries]

The bipedal ones or quadrupeds? Or both? :dodge:
My four year old is nicknamed tripod.


Just saying.


I always kiss my Daddy and hug him - as well as affection, it is a sign of respect and recognition "This is my Dad"
I did that for a while but the guys at the cemetery thought it was a bit creepy. Had to give it up.

[mashman]

My four year old is nicknamed tripod.

Bit of an awkward name for a girl.

[Paul in NZ]

As a father of 3 daughters I was also outraged when I read that but... then a little part of me said, hang on, there may be another side to this story... So yes, while I'm still damn annoyed I also think you have to stand back and think about it a little.

I have no doubt that the original complainants 'thought' that they were doing the right thing and it could be the whole thing comes down to your version of whats acceptable and whats not. ie how long is acceptable to breast feed? To me, if the kid can ask for it, that is too long and yet I know people that don't find that disturbing at all...

The question here is, did this behavior go beyond the legally acceptable? Since the police didn't witness it and there was no empirical evidence you would need to wonder why the police persisted?

Now that can for a bunch of reasons. As a species and as outlined above we embrace a wide range of 'normals'. Imagine the police investigating this turn up at the family home and its 100% brown shoe normal. Guy works in IT, clean cut, wife is a dental nurse out of the local school, 2 cars in the drive, both ordinary Toyotas, not new but tidy, lawns and house well kept etc etc You know... If, given the same complaint and the house was the 'odd' house in the street, serial killer van in the driveway (white toyota no windows) and the family all looked like extras from a David Bain movie or Once were Warriors, a pair of handcuffs and a rubber whip left on the floor and an anxious looking goat tied up in the hallway then the Police person might come to a different conclusion.

We are just responding to an article and we are visualizing our own lives into this case and seeing the injustice in it. Without evening know what the folks look like or ANYTHING about them really we are drawing as long a bow assuming their innocence as the police are (apparently) in assuming guilt.

I do think this all sounds a bit OTT... BUT.....

[oneofsix]

I hope you are right Paul but after having just read the original post and that it has already been thrown out by 2 JPs one starts to think Peter Ellis.

[Paul in NZ]

I hope you are right Paul but after having just read the original post and that it has already been thrown out by 2 JPs one starts to think Peter Ellis.

Oh - don't get me wrong thats what I was thinking and I knew some of the people involved in that case on both sides. Armed with that knowledge I can see how this shit happens which is almost my point. The cop may have met this person and they may have been sufficiently outside her comfort zone so she thinks 'jeeze, youre a fuckin wierdo mate, you must be guilty of something...". Not a good look but understandable when that officer has probably had to deal with stuff that would leave you or I speachless with rage...

[oneofsix]

Oh - don't get me wrong thats what I was thinking and I knew some of the people involved in that case on both sides. Armed with that knowledge I can see how this shit happens which is almost my point. The cop may have met this person and they may have been sufficiently outside her comfort zone so she thinks 'jeeze, youre a fuckin wierdo mate, you must be guilty of something...". Not a good look but understandable when that officer has probably had to deal with stuff that would leave you or I speachless with rage...

Hence why we have checks and balances like the JP's, courts etc. Worrying that they are still pursuing when the JP's have said no twice. Sounding more like a witch hunt, afraid to back off or bee in bonnet, perhaps a friend of a senior office that wont face the truth ;-)
If it proves to be a witch hunt or something similar we, the NZ public, need to be sure that someone will get their arse kicked in a meaningful way for making the family suffer. They they prove to be right then the JP's need firing.

[Asher]

I think this is a really interesting debate. I've been at parks and have told people to leave as I was certain that the kids they were taking photos of and hugging etc weren't their relation. It has always been older males who are probably just a bit lonely but I still consider it not to be appropriate.

[James Deuce]

I think this is a really interesting debate. I've been at parks and have told people to leave as I was certain that the kids they were taking photos of and hugging etc weren't their relation. It has always been older males who are probably just a bit lonely but I still consider it not to be appropriate.
Yeah, I've had that done to me, what with being an older male and having kids who are younger than people would expect. It takes every ounce of self-control I have not to smash my camera down the throat of the nosy busybody telling me to stop photographing my own kids.

On the couple of occasions I've been asked to prove that they're my kids (one just this weekend gone - I offered to call the local cop who I know and knows that these are indeed my kids) I've politely requested their portable DNA and blood typing kit because it isn't yet customary in NZ to carry one's papers with oneself. It was the first opportunity I've had to photograph them with the new dog.

I fucking give up. I guess being a Dad in NZ means going to work before they get out of bed in the morning, coming home after they've gone to bed and staying away all weekend. Especially if you don't fit some nosy arsehole's preconceptions of what type of man is appropriate as a the father of the little group of kids they've just seen him with.