Middle East

[george formby]

Catch sharing, targetting new species to give exisiting ones time to rebuild and increased mesh sizes have all helped to manage the fish stocks more sustainably though.

True, but that is only implemented by a few small national fleets. The big players, Norway, Spain, Indonesia & the Philippines could not give a stuff.

More or less as said by the Spanish captain of an Indonesian boat with a Filipino crew when, after being caught poaching he was asked what about the fish stocks? 'When we catch all of the fish here we will go somewhere else & catch all the fish"

[Edbear]

True, but that is only implemented by a few small national fleets. The big players, Norway, Spain, Indonesia & the Philippines could not give a stuff.

More or less as said by the Spanish captain of an Indonesian boat with a Filipino crew when, after being caught poaching he was asked what about the fish stocks? 'When we catch all of the fish here we will go somewhere else & catch all the fish"

Same attitude here with Paua poachers. :bye:

[mashman]

The aliens.

Them fuckers know everything... I have good teachers it would seem :shifty:

[imdying]

None of these things are the problem. The problem is the number of people on the earth. Not been a problem when we've managed to oppress great numbers of them, but hundreds of millions are entering middle class and thus have an expectation to have access to all the things the middle class have access to. The earth will turn long after the people have gone though (fact: many millennia before the earth is consumed by the sun as it expands as it dies, removing us from the goldilocks zone, it will be uninhabitable by humans in any case).

If we keep the population size under control, and stop the petty bickering that prevents us from turning our minds to colonizing the galaxy, we'll be fine. The population size doesn't worry me personally too much though, I'll be long gone before it's so serious that governments are forced to act harshly... that and history has shown we'll have a nice little war to cull it back in any case (bit of a double edge there... our tech flourishes during those wars, which is unfortunately another thing we need).

[Zedder]

True, but that is only implemented by a few small national fleets. The big players, Norway, Spain, Indonesia & the Philippines could not give a stuff.

More or less as said by the Spanish captain of an Indonesian boat with a Filipino crew when, after being caught poaching he was asked what about the fish stocks? 'When we catch all of the fish here we will go somewhere else & catch all the fish"

There are trade and other sanctions able to be imposed (and are) under the Lacey Act for these ratbags.

Anyway stuff this, I'm going motorbiking!

[george formby]

There are trade and other sanctions able to be imposed (and are) under the Lacey Act for these ratbags.

Anyway stuff this, I'm going motorbiking!

Sadly, no more than a slap on the wrist with a wet bus ticket. The captain in this case was chased for weeks though the Southern Ocean across a number of territorial waters. The boat was impounded, the crew repatriated & the captain fined. The boat was under a flag of convenience so the owner could not be prosecuted. It was stated that for every boat the owner loses he has 3 on the slip waiting to replace it. The cost of the chase & prosecution ran into the millions of dollars.

I agree Imdying, I find it perverse that we focus on the state of the planet, she is fine. Underneath it all I think we are afraid that the good times for us are coming to an end and are casting out for worthy causes to attach ourselves too. No shortage of them either.

[imdying]

I agree Imdying, I find it perverse that we focus on the state of the planet, she is fine. Underneath it all I think we are afraid that the good times for us are coming to an end and are casting out for worthy causes to attach ourselves too. No shortage of them either.Sadly they don't have to, we can still have the good times, but we can't have them in conjunction with rampant population growth. Unfortunately breeding is considered some sort of right, and culling off inferior groups of the population is somehow inhumane.

[Edbear]

Sadly they don't have to, we can still have the good times, but we can't have them in conjunction with rampant population growth. Unfortunately breeding is considered some sort of right, and culling off inferior groups of the population is somehow inhumane.

Naturally you would appreciate that you would fit the bill nicely. Who decides who is inferior? Let me guess, you would, right?

You who childishly continues to red rep me and tells me in foul language to get off my own thread...

Shame you're not half as bright as you like to think you are.

[Zedder]

Sadly, no more than a slap on the wrist with a wet bus ticket. The captain in this case was chased for weeks though the Southern Ocean across a number of territorial waters. The boat was impounded, the crew repatriated & the captain fined. The boat was under a flag of convenience so the owner could not be prosecuted. It was stated that for every boat the owner loses he has 3 on the slip waiting to replace it. The cost of the chase & prosecution ran into the millions of dollars.

I agree Imdying, I find it perverse that we focus on the state of the planet, she is fine. Underneath it all I think we are afraid that the good times for us are coming to an end and are casting out for worthy causes to attach ourselves too. No shortage of them either.

That's the beauty of the Lacey Act, miscreant countries simply get ports closed to them or trade embargoes. No chasing around and spending of money is involved. Cheer up George.

[mashman]

None of these things are the problem. The problem is the number of people on the earth. Not been a problem when we've managed to oppress great numbers of them, but hundreds of millions are entering middle class and thus have an expectation to have access to all the things the middle class have access to. The earth will turn long after the people have gone though (fact: many millennia before the earth is consumed by the sun as it expands as it dies, removing us from the goldilocks zone, it will be uninhabitable by humans in any case).

If we keep the population size under control, and stop the petty bickering that prevents us from turning our minds to colonizing the galaxy, we'll be fine. The population size doesn't worry me personally too much though, I'll be long gone before it's so serious that governments are forced to act harshly... that and history has shown we'll have a nice little war to cull it back in any case (bit of a double edge there... our tech flourishes during those wars, which is unfortunately another thing we need).

If none of the above are the problem, then neither is overpopulation. By way of an example: There's 500,000 people on an island the size of NZ. They live the same lifestyle as us, except everything they have is produced on the island i.e. their tech, their clothing and food. One of the many side affects is the chemical waste which damages their environment, not the local environment, but the places where they make stuff. Because it has damaged an area that 500 miles away from "civilisation", there's no great rush to do anything about it. It kills off the ocean surrounding that area, it makes the land uninhabitable for animals and crops, it makes the air toxic. But it's all good as we believe it'll recover. However in the meantime and as they're living like us, they're not going to do anything to combat the "problems", because she's all good, so life carries on until it can't any further... but it's all good, it's our own fault, we had a good run and survived 200 years of industrialization and "growth". Population growth has done nothing but shift the "doomsday" clock forwards, absolutely nothing. Overpopulation is looking more and more like a problem every day. So we implement some form of culling policy to get back to a "sustainable" population. Something is added to the water perhaps. Technology is expensive so reaching for the stars happens slowly, causing tech to flood the market for entertainment purposes and if we did find a way off this rock, then we have to recycle resources that we've used or have in fact run out of resources that would have been perfect for the job.

On the flip side: the same island, 8 times the population, production of useless shit kept to a minimum, hemp kex instead of jeans etc... nowhere is dying, the ocean is fine (if you want fish, you go catch them as we don't eat fish every day), the land is fine (no need to hammer it as we understand that pouring chemicals all over it does damage for future use), the air is fine (we're pumping a lot less shit into the atmosphere and it's handling that) etc... essentially we're using what we have in a way that meets our requirements and we have everything that the other island have, but where we live offers a future. To that extent someone had a brainfart and realised that the size of our population would cause too much of a strain... and in response they ask the people to have 2 kids max, some have none because they can't stand the little fuckers and some have more so it essentially balances out. Things start to go bad, so because they understand that overpopulation could eventually become an issue, they implement a policy whereby when each man has 2 kids, he's sterlised (reversibly so, just in case). This is of course flexible based on a census carried out each year. Technology is free, so reaching for the stars blasts along at a barely "controllable" pace, causing a control on the release of tech so that resources are used "correctly".

Now according to you the second society should die out before the first society. For some reasons I don't see that being the case. One society has kids because it earns them $$$ so sex Ed fails... the other society has kids because that's how our species carries on and sex Ed works. Sure there are all sorts of maybes in there, but there's a world of difference between the society's and it isn't the size of the population that's the issue.

So I say you are incorrect in regards to your statement... It's not size that matters, it's what you do with it that counts. The case for the new generation rests me lud.

[mashman]

Knew i should have stayed away from this thread, got the glums now.

Pull yourself together man :spanking:, this is no time to be rolling over and playing dead screaming woe is me. Fucking baby.

[SMOKEU]

Unfortunately breeding is considered some sort of right, and culling off inferior groups of the population is somehow inhumane.

We must do what we all know needs to be done.

[mashman]

We must do what we all know needs to be done.

All out hand to hand combat to weed out the weak? I can deal with that.

[SMOKEU]

All out hand to hand combat to weed out the weak? I can deal with that.

No, I'm talking about the "cleansing".

[mashman]

No, I'm talking about the "cleansing".

Oh well that's me fucked then... I only shower once a week, twice if I'm getting lucky.

[300weatherby]

I like the "Ripley solution", China, Nth Korea, Pakistan, Afghanistan, India, Indonesia and all of Africa.

At that point all the extra numbers burden on the planet in terms of mouths to feed and corruption of the global environment is solved.

[scumdog]

No, I'm talking about the "cleansing".

Sort of like say spraying them with soap?
Well giving the lack of familiarity with that substance some have I would guess it would probably wipe out a whole slew of them.

(Down here B.O and brainless run hand-in-hand...)

[mashman]

I like the "Ripley solution", China, Nth Korea, Pakistan, Afghanistan, India, Indonesia and all of Africa.

At that point all the extra numbers burden on the planet in terms of mouths to feed and corruption of the global environment is solved.

bwaaaaaa ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaaa... yup, the corruption would just vanish :killingme GOLD!

[Akzle]

I like the "Ripley solution", China, Nth Korea, Pakistan, Afghanistan, India, Indonesia and all of Africa.

At that point all the extra numbers burden on the planet in terms of mouths to feed and corruption of the global environment is solved.

really?
because they're clearly the problem...

[300weatherby]

really?
because they're clearly the problem...

Good man! so glad you agree, I would let you push the button if you want, but you gotta ask nice

[Akzle]

Good man! so glad you agree, I would let you push the button if you want, but you gotta ask nice

okay. lets roll with this hypothetical: "poor/brown/foreign people are the problem"

then what?

killemall? then what? there's a bunch of rich white cunts left...

hardly ideal innit?
who're they going to rape for their riches?



i have my own buttons to push..

...usually "enter"
after typing "japanese gape chicks"