More cyclists moaning about car drivers

[5150]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff-nation/7997590/A-cyclists-view-of-bad-driving

Interesting read when it coms to the feedback and comments section.....:rolleyes:

[JimO]

had to laugh at them complaining about cars running red lights, most cyclists i see do the same

[Tigadee]

I grew up for a little over a decade in Singapore and there cyclists pay a rego for each bicycle. They have every right to be on the road, and therefore they have every obligation to help pay for it.

[iYRe]

I grew up for a little over a decade in Singapore and there cyclists pay a rego for each bicycle. They have every right to be on the road, and therefore they have every obligation to help pay for it.

I pay car rego, motorcycle rego, taxes, rates, etc etc. I have every right to be on the road on my bicycle.

If you'll got off your asses and cycled the world would be a much better place. And there would be a lot less idiots in cars to try and murder me regardless of what form of 2 wheels I choose on a particular day.

It seems ironic to me that motorcyclists - who share all the same problems but even then, less - are so full of hate towards cyclists. Cyclists and motorcyclists should be working together to make the roads safer for 2 wheels..

[speights_bud]

I pay car rego, motorcycle rego, taxes, rates, etc etc. I have every right to be on the road on my bicycle.

If you'll got off your asses and cycled the world would be a much better place. And there would be a lot less idiots in cars to try and murder me regardless of what form of 2 wheels I choose on a particular day.

It seems ironic to me that motorcyclists - who share all the same problems but even then, less - are so full of hate towards cyclists. Cyclists and motorcyclists should be working together to make the roads safer for 2 wheels..

Rubbish, I don't see how "what form of 2 wheels I choose on a particular day." matters at all, i pay motorcycle & car rego. What you wrote sounds like me saying "I don't have to pay my Motorbike Rego because I've already paid my car one & Rates etc which means i have every right to choose what i travel on the road with"

My personal opinion is that if you want to use the road you need to pay your share regardless of what mode of transport you are on. Although i do think there would need to be more detail in it with regards to school kids etc

Motorcycle Rego has been increased due to being singled out as 'high risk' and i have to pay accordingly like everyone else. Why should we subsidize the accidents and recovery costs of cyclists on the road who often make no effort in wearing safety equipment/clothing when we are already being singled out and yet they pay nothing??

[iYRe]

Actually, since I pay huge fees to use the roads for my other vehicles, but then choose to use a vehicle that doesnt ruin the tarmac, pollute the atmosphere, cause traffic jams, take up (and require) parking spaces etc.. I should be being PAID to do it..
Or at least, getting a rebate on my taxes, rates, etc.

I havent had a motorcycle accident since 1984, and I havent had a bicycle accident (requiring tax payer $) since 1967, so why should I have to pay anything?

So what I am saying is, it costs everyone for cars and motorcycles to be provided for, so when people cycle (lets say.. to work, to drop the kids off at school, or to go to the dairy, as I do) we are SAVING the country money. Research shows that if just 5% of the population cycled, nearly 120 lives would be saved, and it would save the country 200 million dollars.



http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1753-6405.2010.00621.x/pdf

Moving urban trips from cars to bicycles: impact on health and emissions (http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1753-6405.2010.00621.x/pdf)Graeme Lindsay, Alexandra Macmillan, Alistair WoodwardSchool of Population Health, University of Auckland, New ZealandAbstractObjective: To estimate the effects on health, air pollution and greenhouse gas emissions if short trips (?7 km) were undertaken by bicycle rather than motor car.Method: Existing data sources were used to model effects, in the urban setting in New Zealand, of varying the proportion of vehicle kilometres travelled by bicycle instead of light motor vehicle.Results: Shifting 5% of vehicle kilometres to cycling would reduce vehicle travel by approximately 223 million kilometres each year, save about 22 million litres of fuel and reduce transport-related greenhouse emissions by 0.4%. The health effects would include about 116 deaths avoided annually as a result of increased physical activity, six fewer deaths due to local air pollution from vehicle emissions, and an additional five cyclist fatalities from road crashes. In economic terms, including only fatalities and using the NZ Ministry of Transport Value of a Statistical Life, the health effects of a 5% shift represent net savings of about $200 million per year.Conclusion: The health benefits of moving from cars to bikes heavily outweigh the costs of injury from road crashes.Implications: Transport policies that encourage bicycle use will help to reduce air pollution and greenhouse emissions and improve public health.Key words: Air pollution, bicycles, climate change, environmental health, greenhouse gases, injury, mortality, physical activity, transport.Aust NZ J Public Health. 2010; 54-60 doi: 10.1111/j.1753-6405.2010.00621.x

[speights_bud]

It would cost the country too you know, because Rego doesn't pay Anything towards the maintenance or running costs of the road, it's something like 95% ACC levy (sorry i don't have the current figures). The Taxes in your fuel pay for roading up keep, so if the Gubberment has less people buying fuel it is left with less income to look after the roads its already struggling to maintain...

Hence i believe they need to look at charging fee's on hybrid vehicles not using petrol in the way of RUC's... as they are still vehicles using the road but the Govt are not receiving any income from them to maintain the road they are using...

It's kind of like not increasing the drinking age, anyone with brains knows that we would be better off with it lifted, less hospital bills etc etc. But the costs financially are the huge amounts of tax missed out on by potentially losing all those sales...

[JimO]

It seems ironic to me that motorcyclists - who share all the same problems but even then, less - are so full of hate towards cyclists. Cyclists and motorcyclists should be working together to make the roads safer for 2 wheels..
motorcyclists dont ride 3 abreast on winding roads holding other road users up, i have no problem with cyclists but have seen some bad behavior by cyclists its a wonder there arnt more killed on the roads

[neels]

motorcyclists dont ride 3 abreast on winding roads holding other road users up,
Yes they bloody do, probably my worst trip to the west coast was behind 2 hi vis clad motorycyclists with those annoying flashing brake lights, wobbling their way around corners at less than the posted recommended speed. Then on the way back I got a bunch of guys on cruisers who were holding me up slowing down so they didn't scrape their shiny bits on the road.

Then there's ignorant truck drivers, dopey middle aged women in people movers, nana and grandad in their suzuki swift pootling over the hill for a pot of tea.

Basically there are ignorant bastards using all forms of transport, who don't give a shit who they inconvenience.

[5150]

Cyclists and motorcyclists should be working together to make the roads safer for 2 wheels..

Only when the former pay road user charges and obey the road rules will we have any form of respect for the lycra jokeys. :rolleyes:

[Usarka]

Fucking pedestrians should be run over too. I hate having to sit at a red light or zebra crossing when they cross the road. The fuckers jay-walk to, pricks should have to pay to use the footpaths.

[duckonin]

Only when the former pay road user charges and obey the road rules will we have any form of respect for the lycra jokeys. :rolleyes:

Come on, you didn't give that much thought at all .:msn-wink:

[avgas]

Riding a bicycle on the road is like prison sex......

Its going to hurt, your going to look stupid and someone will always out muscle you.

Not to mention the fact most of the guys who are "top dog" get caught using drugs.

[Kickaha]

motorcyclists dont ride 3 abreast on winding roads holding other road users up, i have no problem with cyclists but have seen some bad behavior by cyclists its a wonder there arnt more killed on the roads

Motorcyclists are easily just as big a pack of cunts on the road as any other group, they whinge about every other user group a lot as well

[Road kill]

I pay car rego, motorcycle rego, taxes, rates, etc etc. I have every right to be on the road on my bicycle.

If you'll got off your asses and cycled the world would be a much better place. And there would be a lot less idiots in cars to try and murder me regardless of what form of 2 wheels I choose on a particular day.

It seems ironic to me that motorcyclists - who share all the same problems but even then, less - are so full of hate towards cyclists. Cyclists and motorcyclists should be working together to make the roads safer for 2 wheels..

Maybe you and your mates should start doing head checks before swerving around that parked car when there's another car or truck coming up behind you.

Maybe you should stop riding on the road during rush hours and thus forcing people that "do pay" for the right to be doing what they are from having to cross the center line to avoid running over your self rightous arse.

By the way,,your bike didn't grow on a tree,,it's just a much a product of the industrial world as the cars you think it's better than.

Motorcycles and pushbikes are nothing like each other,,,so fuck off.

[nzspokes]

Ive seen reports that state that charging cyclists regos would cost more in compliance than they would recover. So pointless.

Its an argument that will keep going. But cyclists have a customary right to use the road.

I think it would be better to ban horse floats. And old people. And people on bikes that go slow. And people on Shinkos.

[huff3r]

Maybe you and your mates should start doing head checks before swerving around that parked car when there's another car or truck coming up behind you.

Maybe you should stop riding on the road during rush hours and thus forcing people that "do pay" for the right to be doing what they are from having to cross the center line to avoid running over your self rightous arse.

By the way,,your bike didn't grow on a tree,,it's just a much a product of the industrial world as the cars you think it's better than.

Motorcycles and pushbikes are nothing like each other,,,so fuck off.

You do realise that the only reason a cyclist has to swerve around a parked car is because they are being courteous and keeping as far left as practical, and that the road code actually suggests they ride fully in the lane.

To be honest you should stop being such a cock, and if you see a cyclist coming up towards a parked car, give them some fucking space. It isn't that hard, and it won't kill you. Not doing it however might kill them.

And despite everyones claims to the contrary, I very much doubt that bicycles cost ACC fuck-tonnes, as despite the shit attitude towards cyclists in NZ, they quite often manage to stay largely injury free! (I have NEVER had an ACC covered bicycle accident).

In saying that, there are absolute cocks on bicycles too, just like there are far too many absolute cocks on motorcycles. People just need to grow the fuck up, sprout some testicles, and give each other some respect for once!

[Motig]

Ive seen reports that state that charging cyclists regos would cost more in compliance than they would recover. So pointless.

Its an argument that will keep going. But cyclists have a customary right to use the road.

I think it would be better to ban horse floats. And old people. And people on bikes that go slow. And people on Shinkos.

Well obviously they'll just have to charge more so that the cyclists are paying their way.
The big problem is not cars, bikes etc but the fact that the roads in NZ in the majority of cases are built only just wide enough for cars and theres no way the govt is going to spend money to fix that problem. The easy fix is what their doing now- painting a cycle lane in an already constricted space then blaming roadusers for the problem.

[Motig]

Yes they bloody do, probably my worst trip to the west coast was behind 2 hi vis clad motorycyclists with those annoying flashing brake lights, wobbling their way around corners at less than the posted recommended speed. Then on the way back I got a bunch of guys on cruisers who were holding me up slowing down so they didn't scrape their shiny bits on the road.

Then there's ignorant truck drivers, dopey middle aged women in people movers, nana and grandad in their suzuki swift pootling over the hill for a pot of tea.

Basically there are ignorant bastards using all forms of transport, who don't give a shit who they inconvenience.

Congratulations on being perfect.

[Kickaha]

Motorcycles and pushbikes are nothing like each other,,,so fuck off.
Yeah they are, they've both got two wheels and attract a lot of fuckwits to riding them

[Motig]

It would cost the country too you know, because Rego doesn't pay Anything towards the maintenance or running costs of the road, it's something like 95% ACC levy (sorry i don't have the current figures). The Taxes in your fuel pay for roading up keep, so if the Gubberment has less people buying fuel it is left with less income to look after the roads its already struggling to maintain...

Hence i believe they need to look at charging fee's on hybrid vehicles not using petrol in the way of RUC's... as they are still vehicles using the road but the Govt are not receiving any income from them to maintain the road they are using...

It's kind of like not increasing the drinking age, anyone with brains knows that we would be better off with it lifted, less hospital bills etc etc. But the costs financially are the huge amounts of tax missed out on by potentially losing all those sales...

The govts already talking about raising petrol tax by 3 cents a litre because their revenue is down for roading due to vehicles being more fuel efficent.

[steve_t]

I sometimes ride a bicycle and it does piss me off that people rant about cyclists with hatred BUT it does also piss me off when I see cyclists riding 3 abreast or even 2 abreast when the road is narrow. All that 'right to be on the road' stuff is bullshit. Everyone just needs to try to pose as little inconvenience and danger to everyone else as they can. The world is just too full of douchebags on bikes, motorbikes, in cars, trucks etc etc. and it's the stupid few that gives the rest a bad name

[bogan]

Yeah they are, they've both got two wheels and attract a lot of fuckwits to riding them

Ah, but there's no kiwicyclist for the fuckwits to vent on, so they have to go out on the road and ride three abreast while swerving, running red lights, and staring only at the three meters ahead of their bike. Just imagine if all the fuckwits on kb actually had to ride their bikes :shit:

But more seriously, the problem with this sort of argument, is there is no such thing a generic cyclist. There just fuckwits who happens to ride pedlys, just like there are fuckwits who ride/drive cars/bikes.

[RDJ]

And despite everyones claims to the contrary, I very much doubt that bicycles cost ACC fuck-tonnes, as despite the shit attitude towards cyclists in NZ, they quite often manage to stay largely injury free! (I have NEVER had an ACC covered bicycle accident).

Got figures? Your doubt isn't evidence,,,

[Usarka]

In 2008 there were 1,170 bicycle accidents and 36 deaths costing 15,543 million dollars in entitlement claims. Cyclists paid no ACC levies.

DIY accidents cost $641 million and they don't pay ACC levies either. So what's your point?

[Kickaha]

Cyclists paid no ACC levies.
I did, I paid them when I did my rego

[RDJ]

DIY accidents cost $641 million and they don't pay ACC levies either. So what's your point?

The point is that (as has been stated over and over again in the forum) cyclists and other non-paying road users do not pay extra for their (risky) use of the common roadways. Motorcyclists do...

[huff3r]

The point is that (as has been stated over and over again in the forum) cyclists and other non-paying road users do not pay extra for their (risky) use of the common roadways. Motorcyclists do...

You realise that everyones ACC levies would be lower if people just showed some courtesy and respect to other road users? And considering the number of cyclists in the country, 36 deaths a year is tiny.

[Bald Eagle]

And considering the number of cyclists in the country, 36 deaths a year is tiny.

but it's a start ;-)

[pzkpfw]

I did, I paid them when I did my rego

No, you didn't.

I have a car and bike and pay rego for both, so ACC for both.

You may have paid rego for some vehicle or vehicles, but not for your cycle.

Especially now that folk who choose to ride pay higher ACC fees than people who choose to drive (and people who do both pay both), it's bollocks that cyclists pay nothing specific related to their personal risk profile.

[nzspokes]

Especially now that folk who choose to ride pay higher ACC fees than people who choose to drive (and people who do both pay both), it's bollocks that cyclists pay nothing specific related to their personal risk profile.

Please go read my previous post there champ. The first bit about it compliance costs being higher than the recovery rate. Or do you want to up everybodys rate so you can pointlessly charge cyclists?

[iYRe]

Yes they bloody do, probably my worst trip to the west coast was behind 2 hi vis clad motorycyclists with those annoying flashing brake lights, wobbling their way around corners at less than the posted recommended speed. Then on the way back I got a bunch of guys on cruisers who were holding me up slowing down so they didn't scrape their shiny bits on the road.

Then there's ignorant truck drivers, dopey middle aged women in people movers, nana and grandad in their suzuki swift pootling over the hill for a pot of tea.

Basically there are ignorant bastards using all forms of transport, who don't give a shit who they inconvenience.

yup, and it appears most of em ride motorcycles and frequent this forum..


Only when the former pay road user charges and obey the road rules will we have any form of respect for the lycra jokeys. :rolleyes:

no one wears lycra any more..


Maybe you and your mates should start doing head checks before swerving around that parked car when there's another car or truck coming up behind you.

Maybe you should stop riding on the road during rush hours and thus forcing people that "do pay" for the right to be doing what they are from having to cross the center line to avoid running over your self rightous arse.

By the way,,your bike didn't grow on a tree,,it's just a much a product of the industrial world as the cars you think it's better than.

Motorcycles and pushbikes are nothing like each other,,,so fuck off.

wow.. brain surgeon alert. How do you find the ignition on your bike?

[Swoop]

no one wears lycra any more...
You, being in D'auckland, should have plenty of daily evidence to the contrary.

[BoristheBiter]

I did, I paid them when I did my rego

No you didn't you paid for it with your income tax (paye) as cycling is classed as a sport not a motor vehicle.

[iYRe]

You, being in D'auckland, should have plenty of daily evidence to the contrary.

its only about 5% lycra.. its merino, poly and other special wicking materials.

I dont like wearing it.. but you try riding 100k in "normal" clothes.. it sucks. Besides, we look like an even bigger dicks in our motorcycle gear, so people in glasshouses and stuff..

[Swoop]

its only about 5% lycra..
The number of cyclists' who are seen riding around fully clad in lycra are quite staggering. It honestly looks like there was an explosion in a lycra factory and these people were caught up in the blast.
Anyone who is a fan of the 1980's styles will be exceptionally happy to see the amount of fluoro colours being worn.:rolleyes:




... we look like an even bigger dicks in our motorcycle gear,

I guess those who wear arse-less chaps are really letting the team down, but luckily some of us don't fall into that category, eh?:cool:

[pzkpfw]

Please go read my previous post there champ. The first bit about it compliance costs being higher than the recovery rate. Or do you want to up everybodys rate so you can pointlessly charge cyclists?

No, champ, I'm not necessarily saying they should be charged (*); I just object to this assumption by them (e.g. when they pay rego for a car or bike) that they have paid their dues. (Read the post I was replying to.)

(I'm more for the opposite; if we can't charge cyclists, due to compliance costs, then why is it "fair" to differentially charge other transport modes? I'd rather go back to the "old system" where some form of charging is found, where all are charged the same, and the benefits are shared around.)


((* though I do sometimes wish cyclists could be identified so the "few bad apples" would ride under the same risk of identification as I do when I ride my Z.))

[nzspokes]

No, champ, I'm not necessarily saying they should be charged (*); I just object to this assumption by them (e.g. when they pay rego for a car or bike) that they have paid their dues. (Read the post I was replying to.)

(I'm more for the opposite; if we can't charge cyclists, due to compliance costs, then why is it "fair" to differentially charge other transport modes? I'd rather go back to the "old system" where some form of charging is found, where all are charged the same, and the benefits are shared around.)


((* though I do sometimes wish cyclists could be identified so the "few bad apples" would ride under the same risk of identification as I do when I ride my Z.))

So you want to charge pedestrians as well? They share very similar death stats.

[pzkpfw]

So you want to charge pedestrians as well? They share very similar death stats.

Yeah, you're not reading what I'm writing.

[iYRe]

The number of cyclists' who are seen riding around fully clad in lycra are quite staggering. It honestly looks like there was an explosion in a lycra factory and these people were caught up in the blast.
Anyone who is a fan of the 1980's styles will be exceptionally happy to see the amount of fluoro colours being worn.:rolleyes:


Lycra is still often used in shorts, but pretty much nothing else, for example from groundeffect.co.nz:

hi-performance bodywear combines a merino inner layer with a fast-drying polyester outer.



I guess those who wear arse-less chaps are really letting the team down, but luckily some of us don't fall into that category, eh?:cool:

No, arse-less chaps would be cool..

[MisterD]

Ah, but there's no kiwicyclist for the fuckwits to vent on,

There is, it's called "Vorb".

http://www.vorb.org.nz/sickening-violent-drivers-attitudes-towards-cyclist-t121355.html

[pritch]

I still can't decide whether these cyclist hate threads are funny or tragic.

I'm already paying ACC levies on bike, car, and moped, only one of which I can use at a time. If they brought in a rego system for push bikes I don't think I'd bother paying it.

Funny that the most highly skilled motorcyclists in the world almost all ride pushbikes extensively? One even has (had?) his own racing team sponsored by Yamaha.


Maybe it's the least skilled motorcyclists that don't like cyclists? :devil2:

[imdying]

Actually, since I pay huge fees to use the roads for my other vehicles, but then choose to use a vehicle that doesnt ruin the tarmac, pollute the atmosphere, cause traffic jams, take up (and require) parking spaces etc.. I should be being PAID to do it.Ahahahahah... by that logic, I could cite the same reasons for not having to pay my motorcycle registration.

[iYRe]

There is, it's called "Vorb".

http://www.vorb.org.nz/sickening-violent-drivers-attitudes-towards-cyclist-t121355.html

Or this: http://road.cc/content/news/70594-abuse-cyclists-almost-racial-discrimination%E2%80%9D-claims-aa-president


I still can't decide whether these cyclist hate threads are funny or tragic.

I'm already paying ACC levies on bike, car, and moped, only one of which I can use at a time. If they brought in a rego system for push bikes I don't think I'd bother paying it.

Funny that the most highly skilled motorcyclists in the world almost all ride pushbikes extensively? One even has (had?) his own racing team sponsored by Yamaha.


Maybe it's the least skilled motorcyclists that don't like cyclists? :devil2:

Not necessarily least skilled.. just the most ignorant.



Ahahahahah... by that logic, I could cite the same reasons for not having to pay my motorcycle registration.

Incorrect. Motorcycle exhaust gases are worse for the environment than cars (in general). We still require roads, police, traffic lights, petrol, air, oil, grease, parking, blah blah blah.

[bogan]

Incorrect. Motorcycle exhaust gases are worse for the environment than cars (in general). We still require roads, police, traffic lights, petrol, air, oil, grease, parking, blah blah blah.

Ah yes, the inconvenient 'truth' of man made climate change; that ranks highly in the piss weak fall-back argument category. Not quite sure what that second bit is about, but if you change petrol to petrol/calories it applies to pedlies as well, is that what you meant?

[imdying]

Or this: http://road.cc/content/news/70594-abuse-cyclists-almost-racial-discrimination%E2%80%9D-claims-aa-presidentIncorrect. Motorcycle exhaust gases are worse for the environment than cars (in general). We still require roads, police, traffic lights, petrol, air, oil, grease, parking, blah blah blah.It does however match the other 3 criteria, so then I should only have to pay 25% of it...

[iYRe]

Ah yes, the inconvenient 'truth' of man made climate change; that ranks highly in the piss weak fall-back argument category. Not quite sure what that second bit is about, but if you change petrol to petrol/calories it applies to pedlies as well, is that what you meant?


You should never assume anything.. It's a fact regardless of whether it has any effect on climate change (it doesnt).

[bogan]

You should never assume anything.. It's a fact regardless of whether it has any effect on climate change (it doesnt).

So you were trying to tell us pedlies don't require roads then?

How do they figure out which is worse if they don't evaluate the effect of exhaust gases on the climate? Do they go on what smells worse?

[Fast Eddie]

no one wears lycra any more..

yea they do.. cyclists.

take a jaunt through back roads of tai tapu or over the port hills etc.. cashmere suburb.

full of lycra jockeys in large groups riding 2/3 abreast apparantly deep in conversation and oblivious to any cars stuck behind them or other road users.

I have a pushbike but I'll be damned if I ride it. Its there just as a reminder of what I would be forced to do if I speed too much on the motorbike and lose my licence. Should prob buy a bus too. same reason.

[iYRe]

So you were trying to tell us pedlies don't require roads then?

Yes.


How do they figure out which is worse if they don't evaluate the effect of exhaust gases on the climate? Do they go on what smells worse?

They stick an exhaust gas measuring device in and measure the contents. :doh:

[iYRe]

yea they do.. cyclists.

take a jaunt through back roads of tai tapu or over the port hills etc.. cashmere suburb.

full of lycra jockeys in large groups riding 2/3 abreast apparantly deep in conversation and oblivious to any cars stuck behind them or other road users.

I have a pushbike but I'll be damned if I ride it. Its there just as a reminder of what I would be forced to do if I speed too much on the motorbike and lose my licence. Should prob buy a bus too. same reason.

Perhaps your south island cyclists are still in the 80's.. like the rest of you.

[bogan]

Yes.

Hahahaha, considering their tyres have a section about the same size as my thumb, what else would you propose they ride on?


They stick an exhaust gas measuring device in and measure the contents. :doh:

And who decides what contents are bad? that'll be the climate change scientists won't it?

[iYRe]

Hahahaha, considering their tyres have a section about the same size as my thumb, what else would you propose they ride on?

Anything we want..




And who decides what contents are bad? that'll be the climate change scientists won't it?

Yes.. ok.. we get the idea.. you hate climate change scientists.. so do I. Its irrelevant.. move on.

[bogan]

Anything we want..

Yes.. ok.. we get the idea.. you hate climate change scientists.. so do I. Its irrelevant.. move on.

Ah, you must be being deliberately obtuse. Nobody could be this stupid whilst still able to operate a computer.

[iYRe]

Ah, you must be being deliberately obtuse. Nobody could be this stupid whilst still able to operate a computer.


I'm not the one bleating on irrelevantly about climate scientists.. you're the only one who cares about them.. I dont care what they think, havent consulted them, dont want to... dont need to. Get over it.

[bogan]

I'm not the one bleating on irrelevantly about climate scientists.. you're the only one who cares about them.. I dont care what they think, havent consulted them, dont want to... dont need to. Get over it.

Your point was motorycles are worse for the environment, and this effect is established by measuring what comes out of the exhaust. How do you know the compounds measured to be higher in motorcycle exhausts than cars are worse for the environment? I would say that answer is very relevant for you to maintain your holier-than-thou cyclist approach; which you probably prefer to what is currently looking like a stupider-than-thou cyclist approach, but the later is hardly surprising coming from one who choses a slower and less comfortable transportation method.

[Berries]

Perhaps your south island cyclists are still in the 80's.. like the rest of you.
Yes well, we all know why you Aucklanders like riding in cullotes with the tight cuffs don't we.

[iYRe]

Your point was motorycles are worse for the environment, and this effect is established by measuring what comes out of the exhaust. How do you know the compounds measured to be higher in motorcycle exhausts than cars are worse for the environment? I would say that answer is very relevant for you to maintain your holier-than-thou cyclist approach; which you probably prefer to what is currently looking like a stupider-than-thou cyclist approach, but the later is hardly surprising coming from one who choses a slower and less comfortable transportation method.

wow.. that's certainly an insightful analysis.

Let's see..
Exhausts emit gases. We can measure the gases and how much there are. We can therefore determine if one type of vehicle emits more of a certain type of gas (motorcycles emit less c02, but more of smog producing gases)
Ever heard of google? Perhaps not.. if not.. go to the local library, I am sure there is one in the manuwatu somewhere, and read some books on it, like the rest of us.

[bogan]

but more of smog producing gases

:brick: and how did they decide these were worse than CO2?

[SPman]

Bloody backward NZ. We can ride our bikes from one side of Perth to the other and for a 50km stretch of coast and barely have to set wheels on a road, except when crossing one. A great system of ever expanding cycleways which follow the rail lines, river shore and coast. Mind you, bloody pedestrians are a pain in the arse, walking 2-3 abreast, not getting out of the way, swerving when you least expect it! And it's fun splitting when you go through the centre of town......

[BoristheBiter]

Yes.



then get the fuck off the roads or stop your fucking pussy arsed whining.

[Bassmatt]

Anything we want..


That seems more like the typical cyclists attitude. Well done.

[iYRe]

That seems more like the typical cyclists attitude. Well done.

see now.. anything we want means just that. We can ride on gravel, tarmac, concrete, footpaths, roads, cycle paths.. about the only things we wont ride on are mud, snow/ice, or sand.

Bogan, anything that produces smog is bad.. smog producing gases are bad. If something produces more smog than something else, it is "more smog producing" - do you not understand?

It does not matter if you are a climate scientist, a greenie, or the KKK, producing smog is bad.. right? oh.. no.. hang on..

[BoristheBiter]

see now.. anything we want means just that. We can ride on gravel, tarmac, concrete, footpaths, roads, cycle paths.. about the only things we wont ride on are mud, snow/ice, or sand.

Bogan, anything that produces smog is bad.. smog producing gases are bad. If something produces more smog than something else, it is "more smog producing" - do you not understand?

It does not matter if you are a climate scientist, a greenie, or the KKK, producing smog is bad.. right? oh.. no.. hang on..

Who fucking cares about smog? It's the bikes that are the problem.

[5150]

see now.. anything we want means just that. We can ride on gravel, tarmac, concrete, footpaths, roads, cycle paths.. about the only things we wont ride on are mud, snow/ice, or sand.



Ummm, please correct me if I am wrong, but last time I checked, riding on pedestrian desiganted footpath was against the law...... even for a cyclist. So you are freely admiting to breaking the law?

[iYRe]

Ummm, please correct me if I am wrong, but last time I checked, riding on pedestrian desiganted footpath was against the law...... even for a cyclist. So you are freely admiting to breaking the law?

A lot of footpaths are designated "shared", just like bus lanes in Auckland.

But no, I never ride on a footpath, they are too dangerous.

Do you always indicate for 3 seconds before changing lanes? In fact, do you indicate at all?

[pritch]

Motorcycle exhaust gases are worse for the environment than cars (in general).

There is now a Belgian (?) study (doubtless already mentioned on KB - probably more than once ) which indicated that the more motorcycles there were on a given road the earlier everybody got home.

In the area studied the conclusion was that every road user spent two minutes less on the road. That two minutes multiplied by thousands of vehicles is a big saving in emissions. This saving being due entirely to the presence of motorcycles in numbers moving between the rows of cars rather than taking another place in the queue.

[bogan]

Bogan, anything that produces smog is bad.. smog producing gases are bad. If something produces more smog than something else, it is "more smog producing" - do you not understand?

You do realise there is a level of smog that is completely harmless right? If we are nowhere near that level then things that produce smog are not bad. Your binary viewpoint is far too simplistic for such a complex ecosystem.

[iYRe]

There is now a Belgian (?) study (doubtless already mentioned on KB - probably more than once ) which indicated that the more motorcycles there were on a given road the earlier everybody got home.

In the area studied the conclusion was that every road user spent two minutes less on the road. That two minutes multiplied by thousands of vehicles is a big saving in emissions. This saving being due entirely to the presence of motorcycles in numbers moving between the rows of cars rather than taking another place in the queue.

This is feasible.. however it is per machine rather than collectively that I am talking about.

[5150]

Do you always indicate for 3 seconds before changing lanes? In fact, do you indicate at all?

Don't know what does this statment have anything to do with the subject, but to answer your question, YES, I do indicate for ATLEAST 3 seconds, because I value my life enough to be smart about my riding habits.

[iYRe]

Don't know what does this statment have anything to do with the subject, but to answer your question, YES, I do indicate for ATLEAST 3 seconds, because I value my life enough to be smart about my riding habits.

wow, so you are either the only motorcyclist ever who indicates...

Its relevant because most motorcyclists do not indicate, especially when splitting lanes, which is illegal (the not indicating). And yet, it is done for many legitimate (and illegitimate) reasons. Cyclists also do things that are "illegal" or that people in motorised vehicles think are stupid/dangerous/idiotic, but most sensible cyclists do them for a reason, because their experience says they can get away with it, or that it is actually safer, or there is no point in not doing it.

People in glasshouses...

[haydes55]

Just casually sharing a story or retarded cyclists. On the northland ride the other weekend We passed a few groups of cyclists heading back south. One particular group of about 5 riders were riding in a cluster of stupidity. There was enough room for me to overtake them on the left side, but decided that could be dangerous (dugh) so I had to cross a double yellow line to overtake these 5 lycra clad retards with 1 brain cell between them. The worst part is they had to know I was going to over take. I was well back in a line of other bikes who had all just over taken them.

My only thought after over taking them was "Why don't I see more news stories of cyclists being killed?".

Motorcyclists wear protective gear so if there is an accident they have a greater chance of survival, cyclists don't. In a collision involving cyclists I think ACC would need to pay them out decent amount more. Cyclists create dangerous driving/riding situations unnecessarily, going 70km/h slower than traffic flow and not letting people past unless they make a dangerous overtake (Quite often it's the cyclist not leaving 1.5m to be given).

That being said I have seen cyclists riding as far left as they can in single file, and I salute those riders. They don't ride like twats and don't risk any ones lives or slow down traffic. Until you are free of guilt, you cannot criticise others.

[Usarka]

Do you guys *ever* talk to car drivers?

Every time the subject of motorcycles comes up with a car driver they talk about how motorcyclists carve in and out of traffic, speed, lane split etc. Just yesterday a guy at work said a bike was sitting behind him in traffic and it took a few minutes to work out what was wrong with that picture.

You anti-cylists sound just like all the car drivers I talk to. A bunch of whining nanas.

[pritch]

On the northland ride the other weekend We passed a few groups of cyclists heading back south. One particular group of about 5 riders were riding in a cluster of stupidity.


Two words: Stebel Nautilus.

The percentage of brainless fuckwit cyclists is probably about the same as brainless fuckwit motorcyclists. Actually, the cyclists percentage may be slightly higher because of Darwin's motorcycle casualties.

Motorcyclists have one advantage though, we can operate a really loud airhorn.

[haydes55]

Two words: Stebel Nautilus.

The percentage of brainless fuckwit cyclists is probably about the same as brainless fuckwit motorcyclists. Actually, the cyclists percentage may be slightly higher because of Darwin's motorcycle casualties.

Motorcyclists have one advantage though, we can operate a really loud airhorn.

'Tis true. 'Spose there's the same percentage for all people on the road regardless of vehicle.

Although my horn is more of a buzzer than an air horn haha.

[RDJ]

DIY accidents cost $641 million and they don't pay ACC levies either. So what's your point?

Govt is singling out groups and targeting them for extra ACC levies when the scheme was set up as no-fault. Right now Four Wheels Good, Two (EnginePowered) Wheels Bad, Two (HumanPowered) Wheels Good. Won't last; the Govt will come for the cyclists pretty soon methinks. As for DIYers, can plate cyclists and motorcyclists to ID them on the road; DIYers not so much. (Although doubtless some Beehive Smurf is thinking of a way to bill DIYers... perhaps a special GST on paint and wallpaper... :facepalm: )

[BoristheBiter]

Govt is singling out groups and targeting them for extra ACC levies when the scheme was set up as no-fault. Right now Four Wheels Good, Two (EnginePowered) Wheels Bad, Two (HumanPowered) Wheels Good.

You either don't own a diesel powered vehicle or haven't noticed the rise in RU charges.
Also the work place acc levies have gone up.
To think only bikes have been targeted is a bit off.

[Usarka]

And it's a bit spoilt brat to complain about something being unfair like our ACC levies and then pointing at others saying "how come they don't have to pay".

Either the levies are fair or they are not. If they're not fair then we should be against them full stop.

[RDJ]

You either don't own a diesel powered vehicle or haven't noticed the rise in RU charges.
Also the work place acc levies have gone up.
To think only bikes have been targeted is a bit off.

I do not think only bikes are targeted and the business I work for gets hit by both the charges you mention. I was confining my comments to individual users like us. As for Usarka's comment - the people who do not have to pay have no financial skin in the game. If they did pay, they might care... if IYO that is the viewpoint of a spoilt brat, you might be projecting...