Taranaki Toy Run crash

[Naki Rat]

This is not good news! (http://www.stuff.co.nz/taranaki-daily-news/news/8023795/Major-crash-on-SH3) :eek5: Motorcyclists seem to have developed a 'lemming' gene just recently, or is it the rusty and over-enthusiastic riders back on their machines after the winter rego holiday?

[James Deuce]

It's the first weekend in December. It happens every year.

[jellywrestler]

omg
rip
hope it's not a KB member
this is terrible
the car driver was in the wrong
and they were too young to die

[Headbanger]

Can't see how it matters if its a KB member or not, Its a tragic event.

If its the van driver at fault, I vote an eye for an eye, Give the fucker a dose of kill.

[Headbanger]

ffs


Two motorcyclists are dead and five others have been flown to hospital after a van ploughed into a group of touring bikes in the Taranaki today.

Double ffs



A person who was performing CPR on one of the injured riders was also taken to hospital after suffering a heart attack. He was believed to have been one of the occupants in the van.

[actungbaby]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10851271

dam i chouldint think worse thing to happen

[BigAl]

Bloody tragic and being a toy run couldn't imagine speed involved.

[JimO]

If its the van driver at fault, I vote an eye for an eye, Give the fucker a dose of kill.
if they are the vans skid marks he looks to have been not in the wrong

[FJRider]

This is not good news! (http://www.stuff.co.nz/taranaki-daily-news/news/8023795/Major-crash-on-SH3) :eek5: Motorcyclists seem to have developed a 'lemming' gene just recently, or is it the rusty and over-enthusiastic riders back on their machines after the winter rego holiday?

Or just in the wrong place .. at the wrong time ...

Being "in the right" does not mean staying safe.

It would even be debatable ... to declare it increases the odds of staying safe.

All the skill, training, experience, and laws ... count for nothing if one idiot motorist is involved ...


Everybody feeling lucky ... ???

[roadracingoldfart]

Is that a misplaced bike muffler with a large outlet or is it the van muffler ???

[FJRider]

Is that a misplaced bike muffler with a large outlet or is it the van muffler ???

The van still has it's muffler attached. Looks like a "Boy Racer" type ... (mag wheels on the van I see)

Attached is an enlarged pic ...

[clonak]

Got detoured around the Te Hana accident today. Knew it must have been pretty bad.
Had to learn to ride on gravel pretty quickly... Missed my sisters performance in dargaville.

Hope they are ok all the same, but some of the driving I witnessed on the way up, I am not supprised. I thought it was the rain that made peoples driving retarded, not the sun.

Not a good day at all. No wonder my mum wanted me to text her when I got home.

[SPman]

Not good.....we know one of those killed.......ride on Kelly...

[SPman]

It's the first weekend in December. It happens every year.
Hmmmm...coming up for 6 years now...........:eek5:

[munster]

Bit more info this morning.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10851403

Not good for anyone involved. Hope they throw the book at the van driver.:angry:

[Paul in NZ]

Bit more info this morning.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10851403

Not good for anyone involved. Hope they throw the book at the van driver.:angry:

I hope they will throw a bit more than a book at him.... Something leaden would be nice...

Sounds bloody horrific... I just cant imagine...

[James Deuce]

I hope they will throw a bit more than a book at him.... Something leaden would be nice...

Sounds bloody horrific... I just cant imagine...

There's very little likelihood of anything being thrown. A gentle pat on the head and a, "There, there dear", is much more likely.

[YellowDog]

FFS - Some bikers supporting an outstandingly good cause end up dead an maimed.

Let's hope the authorities take this manslaughter of innocent bikers very seriously.

RIP and condolences.

[Road kill]

On the wrong side of the road passed three other cars already stopped and straight into the group of riders.

WTF is wrong with these bloody people.:pinch:

[Maki]

On the wrong side of the road passed three other cars already stopped and straight into the group of riders.

WTF is wrong with these bloody people.:pinch:

Dunno. The police does not seem to care about that kind of behavior unless they happen to be a k or two above the speed limit or kill someone. I wish there was a real traffic safety campaign and the police really policed dangerous behavior on the road.

You think speed kills?

http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/28/2840.asp

"Up until 2007, rural roads in the Northern Territory, Australia had no speed limit. Claiming that speed limits were essential to saving lives, the state government imposed a 130km/h (80 MPH) limit on the Stuart, Arnhem, Victoria and Barkly highways and a 110km/h (68 MPH) speed limit on all other roads, unless otherwise marked lower. Despite the best of intentions, however, the number of road deaths actually increased 70 percent after the change -- despite worldwide drop in traffic levels"

They actually killed people by imposing speed limits.

Anyway, I have never been on that kind of group ride and it seems to me like I never will be. Too dangerous.

[strumpet]

Dangerous driving causing death? Possible 10 years in jail.

[nzspokes]

What amazes me is the other riders finished the run. Good on them. I cant imagine how hard that was.

RIP

[placidfemme]

This is terrible, my thoughts and prayers go out to families and friends.

No matter what punishment is handed to the driver, it will never be enough to even come close to fixing the damage he/she has done to those left behind.

[Ocean1]

You think speed kills? <>
They actually killed people by imposing speed limits.

Yes. Almost all before / after comparitive evidence from such changes indicate either better results from fewer speed restrictions or change below what's statistically relevant.

And yet not only is policy and enforcement headed in the other direction but we're faced with on-going publicity campaigns to match.

And the sad fact is that for a majority they work.

[tamarillo]

Agree with comments about police campaign. This is classic example of bad driving and our cops just don't target this. But what do we do about it? Complaining here won't to a thing to change it.

[Ocean1]

Agree with comments about police campaign. This is classic example of bad driving and our cops just don't target this. But what do we do about it? Complaining here won't to a thing to change it.

To be fair you can't enforce that type of behaviour from a kilometer away, you're success rate isn't going to be very high even if you focused on it.

Wall to wall cameras is and a small army of watchers is about the only way.

[Naki Rat]

To be fair you can't enforce that type of behaviour from a kilometer away, you're success rate isn't going to be very high even if you focused on it.

Wall to wall cameras is and a small army of watchers is about the only way.

From this news article (http://www.stuff.co.nz/taranaki-daily-news/news/8022039/Police-in-high-speed-bike-chase) in our local daily newspaper yesterday morning:

Taranaki highway police would be on alert at the weekend after being informed that boy racers were converging on the region to attend a skids event at Ferndene Raceway, Mr Richardson said.

Many boy racers were expected to travel in convoy from Wellington and Palmerston North.
Guess the focus of the "alert" might have been spread a bit thin.

[george formby]

On the wrong side of the road passed three other cars already stopped and straight into the group of riders.

WTF is wrong with these bloody people.:pinch:

Too many people treat the white line as a suggestion.

I missed a head on by inches a few days ago. A person pulled out of a junction from the right hand lane into the right hand lane as I approached. I was in the car, not sure if I could have stopped the bike as quickly & nowhere to go.

Sad & chilling accident.

[cheshirecat]

A couple of weeks ago travelling south on the Welly MW there was the usual cop car with radar gun on the overpass. 5 cars ahead of me dropped their speed from 105/7ish to 95 and of course tail gated up to within a couple of car lengths. Cars behind me tail gated up as well. All this was totally ignored by the cop car yet we know tailgating is far more dangerous than light speeding on a wide three lane carriage way.

Sad times for us - my thoughts to the bikers, and those clearing up the mess.

[Scuba_Steve]

Too many people treat the white line as a suggestion.


Thats only gonna get worse.
We all know the crazy with the yellow paints been running round the country painting up the lines. Well what you may/may not have noticed is his mate, insane guy with the white paint, has also been been making the rounds painting "guide" lines everywhere...
This can only be a bad thing in the long run, as people start thinking white lines mean nothing more than guide or suggestion & treat them as such.

[kevie]

Thats only gonna get worse.
We all know the crazy with the yellow paints been running round the country painting up the lines. Well what you may/may not have noticed is his mate, insane guy with the white paint, has also been been making the rounds painting "guide" lines everywhere...
This can only be a bad thing in the long run, as people start thinking white lines mean nothing more than guide or suggestion & treat them as such.

Something I have said for years ..... the Road authorities putting yellow no passing lines everywhere and anywhere and some of them are sooooooo not needed there.
Same with the number of road signs (which I term as visual noise), both them and the yellows are so dominant on our roads people are treating them as a nothingness and not seeing them.
LTSA need to get around the country without their Politically Correct glasses on and remove all the unnecessary shit from our roads.
Instead of plastering the signs and yellows everywhere they should toughen up on the penalties for breaking them, and teaching the age old lost talent of "common sense".

I'm a line-haul trucker and see on a daily basis numerous incidences of Stupidity.... many of them drivers with young children in the car; Have our modern drivers lost the ability to think? they seem to turn on the ignition and turn off the brain!
I once was laying a serious dangerous driving complaint and said to the cop that I thought modern drivers cant think beyond their windscreens, he replied hes convinced they cant even think that far..... I recon he may be right.

I make NO apologies for dobbing in bad drivers, whether they are other trucks, cars or even motorcyclists ... the highway is MY WORKPLACE and I have a responsibility to help keep it safe, and as an ex ambulance officer ... I don't really want to spend time on the road trying to keep some innocent victim alive after the stupidity of a bad driver!
So remember ..... *555 costs me Nothing ...... what could it cost you???

[James Deuce]

So remember ..... *555 costs me Nothing ...... what could it cost you???
Doesn't work, even following up with the relevant paperwork at the Police Station, and I'm quite frankly sickened by the concept that narking is now not only OK, it's encouraged by the authorities and people are thinking it is OK! Can't be long until we have ignition interlocks to measure breath alcohol prior to engine start, monitored ECUs resulting in a backlog of "offences" needing to be cleared at every interface with officialdom, cameras on every piece of transit owned roadside furniture and the death penalty for reversing into an angle park.

[FJRider]

Instead of plastering the signs and yellows everywhere they should toughen up on the penalties for breaking them, and teaching the age old lost talent of "common sense".



People bitch about the "Failing to keep left" fines now. With NO yellows involved ...

Those with the "I'm in a hurry so I will ... " mentality ... if they can, they will.(If it suits) Never a thought of what may result.

[george formby]

and the death penalty for reversing into an angle park.


:shit:I did that last weekend!:facepalm:

[scumdog]

Doesn't work, even following up with the relevant paperwork at the Police Station, and I'm quite frankly sickened by the concept that narking is now not only OK, it's encouraged by the authorities and people are thinking it is OK!.

So you're suggesting that when we are following somebody who overtakes on the crest of a hill, using the passing lane for traffic from the opposite direction to do so and carries on that we go "Meh, he probably coulda picked a better spot" and leave it at that???:blink:

Well I don't 'cos one day it could be ME on that passing lane heading into a brainless fuckin moron that shouldn't be allowed near anything that has wheels...

I do my best to see the error of their way is pointed out to said brainless fuckin' moron. (Of which we have too many on our roads.)

[scumdog]

Never a thought of what may result.

And that's the problem - their mind is more on the next golf game -or pavlova they're gonna make or something other than the task at hand.
Should be made to use the bus.
Numpties.

[MSTRS]

... brainless fuckin' moron. (Of which we have too many on our roads.)

Yep ... and to be fair, not all of them in mufti, eh.

As for the reason for this thread...it is a tragedy that the innocent and vulnerable pay the price for someone else's lunacy. Drivers like this one (assuming that reports are correct, of course) should be charged with murder. Let some lawyer argue it down to manslaughter, because there was no intent to kill. But kill that driver did, and I'm not sure that the driving charge '...causing death' carries a penalty equal to the manslaughter charge. Besides, an even better prosecutor might manage to get murder through and then the game will change, eh?

[James Deuce]

So you're suggesting that when we are following somebody who overtakes on the crest of a hill, using the passing lane for traffic from the opposite direction to do so and carries on that we go "Meh, he probably coulda picked a better spot" and leave it at that???:blink:

Well I don't 'cos one day it could be ME on that passing lane heading into a brainless fuckin moron that shouldn't be allowed near anything that has wheels...

I do my best to see the error of their way is pointed out to said brainless fuckin' moron. (Of which we have too many on our roads.)

No, I'm suggesting that that Average Joe doesn't get any respect in regard to making a complaint about other road users, and that you can report mouth breathers all you want. It's a waste of time.

A considerable waste of time, because to actually follow up a *555 requires you to make a formal complaint (Police Station visit, form filling, bored cop/receptionist looking at you like you're a retard for suggesting that people can't drive while you're stupid enough to turn up here wearing motorcycle gear) and without witnesses with a will to follow the same process, the best you can hope for from a *555 is a letter to the offender suggesting they've been a dick at some point in the past and someone whined about it. Which will get the same response from most people - "The can't mean me, I'm an above average driver". He probably is. It's just that the scale we use to judge "average driver" in NZ starts at amoeba and ends at crustacean.

[scumdog]

No, I'm suggesting that that Average Joe doesn't get any respect in regard to making a complaint about other road users, and that you can report mouth breathers all you want. It's a waste of time.

A considerable waste of time, because to actually follow up a *555 requires you to make a formal complaint (Police Station visit, form filling, bored cop/receptionist looking at you like you're a retard for suggesting that people can't drive while you're stupid enough to turn up here wearing motorcycle gear) and without witnesses with a will to follow the same process, the best you can hope for from a *555 is a letter to the offender suggesting they've been a dick at some point in the past and someone whined about it. Which will get the same response from most people - "The can't mean me, I'm an above average driver". He probably is. It's just that the scale we use to judge "average driver" in NZ starts at amoeba and ends at crustacean.

You sound like too many of the public - "I can't be fucked making the effort, it's all too hard/inconvenient/time consuming".

Fuckwitted drivers depend on people like you...

(And sweet f.a. of the complaints I receive DON'T get at least the appropriate ticket if not a summons)

[Katman]

As for the reason for this thread...it is a tragedy that the innocent and vulnerable pay the price for someone else's lunacy. Drivers like this one (assuming that reports are correct, of course) should be charged with murder. Let some lawyer argue it down to manslaughter, because there was no intent to kill. But kill that driver did, and I'm not sure that the driving charge '...causing death' carries a penalty equal to the manslaughter charge. Besides, an even better prosecutor might manage to get murder through and then the game will change, eh?

And the sad fact is that 6 years down the track we still have a tribute thread going for a motorcyclist who fits that bill perfectly.

[James Deuce]

You sound like too many of the public - "I can't be fucked making the effort, it's all too hard/inconvenient/time consuming".

Fuckwitted drivers depend on people like you...

(And sweet f.a. of the complaints I receive DON'T get at least the appropriate ticket if not a summons)
No, made plenty of effort to no effect. Gave up. Pretty much like anything related to road safety, motorcycling or mental health. No one gives a shit.

[thecharmed01]

I really feel for the families who are suffering.

I hadn't seen the herald article, so I was wondering how a toy run could go so wrong - I figured it was the van at fault bearing in mind it wasn't a bunch of hoons out taking over the road but man alive. I hope he sees prison.
How the hell do you justify to yourself, that overtaking stopped traffic on a corner is a good idea??!?!?!?!?! What the hell was he thinking?????
It's always gutting when the wrong person dies because the person who made the stupid decision is the one that walks away!

[scumdog]

It's always gutting when the wrong person dies because the person who made the stupid decision is the one that walks away!

If you're gonna kill somebody in NZ do it on the roads.

It gives you the best shot for walking away with bugger all penalty.

[scumdog]

And the sad fact is that 6 years down the track we still have a tribute thread going for a motorcyclist who fits that bill perfectly.


"Must spread rep"

[007XX]

If only arguing over who's wrong could change a thing.

RIP to those lost, and all heartfelt sympathies to those affected by their passing.

It sucks so thoroughly, the needless loss of lives.

[MSTRS]

If you're gonna kill somebody in NZ do it on the roads.

It gives you the best shot for walking away with bugger all penalty.

Exactly my point above. It's time the charge was altered to murder for this sort of thing.

[James Deuce]

Is video helpful in these cases? Next defensive manoeover here is cheap vid cameras front & back so can defend the next asshat that tries it on & save my $2k excess...
It's at this point that Eric Arthur Blair says, "Fuck it, why did I even bother to warn them?"

[scumdog]

It's at this point that Eric Arthur Blair says, "Fuck it, why did I even bother to warn them?"

Meh, it's been happening throughout the ages...look at the night watchmen from days gone by, trying to keep us safe to some, narks so the govt can 'control' us to others...

1984 went past and jack shit happened.

[James Deuce]

Meh, it's been happening throughout the ages...look at the night watchmen from days gone by, trying to keep us safe to some, narks so the govt can 'control' us to others...

1984 went past and jack shit happened.

Plenty of nightwatchmen "got theirs".

It's not our job to "help" the Government in any way. It's our job to make sure that we behave in a way that means we have as little to do with it as possible and it with us. Actively running covert surveillance on other people without any need to do so is either sick voyeurism or delusional vigilante behaviour.

[blue rider]

If you're gonna kill somebody in NZ do it on the roads.

It gives you the best shot for walking away with bugger all penalty.



And where is the police demanding that the laws are enforced and punished appropriately?

When will I read a communique from a police spokesmen/women demanding that the NZ legislature does something about people blatantly disregarding the rode code and endangering other users?

If anyone should be informed enough to speak up it should be the police. How come I here nothing about sensible sentencing in situations like these, or where is the police for that matter when it comes to establishing road rules, speed limits etc.
Is the police as an official body not allowed to speak up, or maybe there is no interest in speaking up.

I know speed kills, but obviously overtaking at an intersections does too.

[scumdog]

And where is the police demanding that the laws are enforced and punished appropriately?

When will I read a communique from a police spokesmen/women demanding that the NZ legislature does something about people blatantly disregarding the rode code and endangering other users?

If anyone should be informed enough to speak up it should be the police. How come I here nothing about sensible sentencing in situations like these, or where is the police for that matter when it comes to establishing road rules, speed limits etc.
Is the police as an official body not allowed to speak up, or maybe there is no interest in speaking up.

I know speed kills, but obviously overtaking at an intersections does too.


Police-police-police-police.

Yep, once again all their fault.

Wa-wa-wa-wa....:rolleyes:

[FJRider]

I know speed kills, but obviously overtaking at an intersections does too.

Only two factors in the accident.

Add ...

1. A large group of motorcycles on that road.
2. Most of those motorcycles traveling at/near the (open road) posted speed limit.
3. A number of vehicles waiting (On a right hand corner) to turn right over the intended path of those motorcycles approaching. (read ... extended wait for them to pass by)
4. The motorcycles were traveling close together.

That last four ... all the motorcyclists approaching that corner would have been aware of ... if they were looking. All four factors that should ring alarm bells in a bikers head.

But hey ... they were in the right ... what was there for them to worry about ???

Causing a crash is not the end of the blame trail ... and current legislation is enough to have proven guilty persons charged.

Not causing an accident does not mean blameless ...

[blue rider]

Police-police-police-police.

Yep, once again all their fault.

Wa-wa-wa-wa....:rolleyes:


Awesome answer.


Nowhere have I said that a copper is at fault, I have asked where the police spokesperson is that will ask for tougher sentencing in cases of preventable death such as these death yesterday.

here have a tissue...

[Maha]

Wa-wa-wa-wa....:rolleyes:

That even sounds like a cop car....:confused:

[FJRider]

I know speed kills, but obviously overtaking at an intersections does too.

The latest report states the van was NOT overtaking as earlier reported.

[Subike]

I placed this in another thread, it has been suggested I shift it here.


Complacency . Some drivers will constantly flout the law, and for months even years they get away with making the same mistake
without an incident, close call, or anyone calling them on it. It become one of those things they do without considering the potential it has for dire results. Be it overtaking on a blind corner, cutting across a corner, overtaking stopped vehicles, not slowing down at the right times, the list can be huge. But there in lies the problem . The driver ( riders do this too) do it that often that when an incident happens, they do not see they were the cause until it is pointed out to them. What was in this Van drivers mind we will never know.What ever it was, I tend to think this was a residitive move that had never previously caused him any problem.
Now here is where the over all road problem could be, with the police concentrating upon the speed limit, drivers trying to get places at the limit, risks are taken at the speed limit, situations arrive where speed is not the problem, but bad driving habits developed trying to be fast inside the limit. The cutting corners, overtaking in dangerous places, failure to stop properly at intersections, again the list is huge, drivers get complacent, risks are take under the speed limit, and deaths occur.
This to me, was a driver taking those risks he had been happy taking for a long time. Sadly this was the once it bit him, and we lost people.l

[mashman]

R.I.P to the riders and condolences to the family and friends.

[FJRider]

Nowhere have I said that a copper is at fault, I have asked where the police spokesperson is that will ask for tougher sentencing in cases of preventable death such as these death yesterday.



It is yet to be stated officially WHO was thought to be at fault/charged. And then be proven guilty in a court of law.

No word yet of the van driver being charged ...

[blue rider]

The latest report states the van was NOT overtaking as earlier reported.

Good. As i said earlier, i could not get my head around such a senseless action.

It makes the happenings no better, but at least it does not seem willfully irresponsible.

[FJRider]

Good. As i said earlier, i could not get my head around such a senseless action.

It makes the happenings no better, but at least it does not seem willfully irresponsible.

The result is the same.

Next question ... what did happen for those vehicles to collide.

Statements in some posts of this thread ... were based on what was (incorrectly) reported.

[Maha]

The result is the same.

Next question ... what did happen for those vehicles to collide.

Statements in some posts of this thread ... were based on what was (incorrectly) reported.

Noooooooooooooooooooo that can't be a true and fair statement, bla bla based on incorrect information? on here?...when will the madness end?
It could have just been a terrible accident.....but wheres the fun in that when a biker dies?

[mashman]

when will the madness end?

Once he's cleaned his dick on yer curtains?

[Maha]

Once he's cleaned his dick on yer curtains?

Last time he had to do did that, it only cost me a packet of biscutts and a can of coke.

[admenk]

Only two factors in the accident.

the motorcyclists approaching that corner would have been aware of ... if they were looking. All four factors that should ring alarm bells in a bikers head.

But hey ... they were in the right ... what was there for them to worry about ???

Causing a crash is not the end of the blame trail ... and current legislation is enough to have proven guilty persons charged.

Not causing an accident does not mean blameless ...

As you later go on to say, the full facts of this incident have yet to come out, so none of us know where blame (if any) needs to be directed. None of us have any choice but to leave that to the authorities involved.

I was actually on this ride and this must have happened after I went through. The rest of us heard about it at the next stop, which needless to say, put a rather large dampner on the rest of the day

[Madness]

Last time he had to do did that, it only cost me a packet of biscutts and a can of coke.

Oi, I resemble that comment!

[Naki Rat]

The result is the same.

Next question ... what did happen for those vehicles to collide.

Statements in some posts of this thread ... were based on what was (incorrectly) reported.

Latest local media coverage (http://www.stuff.co.nz/taranaki-daily-news/news/8023795/Fatal-crash-described-as-a-bomb-site) is stating that the van had 7 occupants and was being followed by a car of their associates, all heading for a boy racer 'skids' meeting just south of New Plymouth.

The corner where the accident happened is a left hand (heading north) sweeper which can be deceptive, with a side road entering from the outside of the corner.

Inattention and/or loss of control leading to drifting wide into oncoming traffic (bikes) would be my guess.

[mashman]

Last time he had to do did that, it only cost me a packet of biscutts and a can of coke.

heh heh... that's good value... I'm off to see if next door has any biscuits and then I'll send a PM.

[Sensei]

From having done this ride since it first started back in the day ... 500+ bikes , crashes were just about had on all the ones I was on but no Deaths . The last ride me & my mate were on we were the last to leave the last Pub to come over the creast of a hill to see 4 local riders we knew & their bikes smashed all over the road ... Luckly no one died but a lot of life changing injury's. This was the last Toy run I ever did . The lives lost in this event will not be forgotten quickly as any we have known .

[jellywrestler]

From having done this ride since it first started back in the day ... 500+ bikes , crashes were just about had on all the ones I was on but no Deaths . The last ride me & my mate were on we were the last to leave the last Pub to come over the creast of a hill to see 4 local riders we knew & their bikes smashed all over the road ... Luckly no one died but a lot of life changing injury's. This was the last Toy run I ever did . The lives lost in this event will not be forgotten quickly as any we have known .

well well well......
the last pub, how many did you stop at????

[nadroj]

Latest local media coverage (http://www.stuff.co.nz/taranaki-daily-news/news/8023795/Fatal-crash-described-as-a-bomb-site) is stating that the van had 7 occupants and was being followed by a car of their associates, all heading for a boy racer 'skids' meeting just south of New Plymouth.

The corner where the accident happened is a left hand (heading north) sweeper which can be deceptive, with a side road entering from the outside of the corner.

Inattention and/or loss of control leading to drifting wide into oncoming traffic (bikes) would be my guess.

I am presuming the toy run was heading south as per normal route, which would mean the impact took place at the motorcycles 7/8 mark of a sweeping right hander. Most motorcycles slow for the corner in question although it can be taken at in excess of the speed limit. The old dairy factory it happened outside (now Normanby Fibreglass) has a side road exiting at an acute angle requiring the driver exiting to look around his door pillar, unless they were attempting to turn right (which may explain the overtaking stationary vehicles but unusual as there is a separate intersection for rh exit).

[Mom]

(And sweet f.a. of the complaints I receive DON'T get at least the appropriate ticket if not a summons)

Can you come and move norf? I have presented myself at the local cop shop, complete with rego numbers and a very good description of some of the most unbelievable driving I have ever seen ( a light truck with a diger on the back, pulled out on a passing lane without indication or looking, and forced another car over a double yellow line on a blind corner, on one of this regions most deadly stretches of road) I had to take evasive action so as not to have ended up in the same place. Thank God nothing was coming or it would have been total carnage, and would have most likely involved me too. This truck had just ( less than a min from when I stopped at the station) turned down a bit of road that had few options of destination, and at the speed the thing was travelling would have been an easy catch up. HP plod was on station, and came to talk to me at the counter. Nothing he could do apparently unless I took these papers home and completed them! EH? Ok, I will stand here and complete them right now, the truck is only just up the road, no, take them away and do it, in most of these cases we end up charging the person making the complaint, so think carefully before you fill them out!


He was not at all interested, fecked it I know if he ever did anythign about it, my guess? He filed it in the bin. Our HP cops are not well respected up here, cant imagine why?

Sad news though about these bikers killed. I count 5 dead this weekend alone. Must be the start of summer.

[FJRider]

Inattention and/or loss of control leading to drifting wide into oncoming traffic (bikes) would be my guess.

The center line is not strong enough to stop vehicles from either side drifting over.

[FJRider]

Noooooooooooooooooooo that can't be a true and fair statement, bla bla based on incorrect information? on here?...when will the madness end?
It could have just been a terrible accident.....but wheres the fun in that when a biker dies?

I thought total belief in the accuracy of the New Zealand News reporting had stopped years ago ... I'm glad KB has still faith in it. And keeping it's traditions alive ...

Sadly though ... there is no fun when a biker dies. And reinforces the justification of the increased ACC levies ...

[Daffyd]

The center line is not strong enough to stop vehicles from either side drifting over.

Why, oh why did they put those stupid rumble strips on the roadsides instead of on the centreline? This would stop a lot of people from drifting over to the wrong side of the road.

[paturoa]

Can you come and move norf?

+1 scummy.

Unfortunately not all popos and salaried staff are of like mind up here. I've had the same experience and have now got a camera to record the next one.

[FJRider]

Why, oh why did they put those stupid rumble strips on the roadsides instead of on the centreline? This would stop a lot of people from drifting over to the wrong side of the road.

Have you never taken a right hand corner with the tyres touching just left of the center line. With YOUR head half a meter over ... ??? Are you then legally over the line or not ... ?? (Does it really make a difference)

[jellywrestler]

Why, oh why did they put those stupid rumble strips on the roadsides instead of on the centreline? This would stop a lot of people from drifting over to the wrong side of the road.

its' so people get startled and swerve away from the noise, sometimes into on coming traffic!

[Sensei]

well well well......
the last pub, how many did you stop at????
The pubs etc were regrouping points for most , 12+ if you must know !

[Road kill]

Who are the NZ Motorcycle safety council ?,,,at last that's what I thought the guy called them/himself.

Heard this guy on the radio today "head of the NZMC safety council,,pointing out all his reasons it was pretty much the bikers own fault somebody ran them down because they were riding in a large group.

I have no idea who this cunt is but if he's on our side "we're fucked.:angry2:

[scumdog]

Who are the NZ Motorcycle safety council ?,,,at last that's what I thought the guy called them/himself.

Heard this guy on the radio today "head of the NZMC safety council,,pointing out all his reasons it was pretty much the bikers own fault somebody ran them down because they were riding in a large group.

I have no idea who this cunt is but if he's on our side "we're fucked.:angry2:

He might have a point.

"spread out, that way they won't get all of us with the one grenade"

[duckonin]

He might have a point.

"spread out, that way they won't get all of us with the one grenade"

:yes: +1 I shall go with that.

[Naki Rat]

Why, oh why did they put those stupid rumble strips on the roadsides instead of on the centreline? This would stop a lot of people from drifting over to the wrong side of the road.
Having lived on a rural highway in the BOP with centreline rumble strips I can tell you they don't stop drivers overtaking, but they do piss off those who live near the road. The constant 'rat-tat-tat' as vehicles cross the centreline used to drive us nuts :crazy:

[pete376403]

Meanwhile, in other parts of the 'naki...
http://www.stuff.co.nz/taranaki-daily-news/news/8022039/Police-in-high-speed-bike-chase

Someones not doing us any favours.

[scumdog]

Meanwhile, in other parts of the 'naki...
http://www.stuff.co.nz/taranaki-daily-news/news/8022039/Police-in-high-speed-bike-chase

Someones not doing us any favours.

Sorry to tell you but there's already a ginormous thread on KB on that topic.:facepalm:

[duckonin]

And reinforces the justification of the increased ACC levies ...

Rubbish !!!:facepalm:

[FJRider]

Who are the NZ Motorcycle safety council ?,,,at last that's what I thought the guy called them/himself.

Heard this guy on the radio today "head of the NZMC safety council,,pointing out all his reasons it was pretty much the bikers own fault somebody ran them down because they were riding in a large group.

I have no idea who this cunt is but if he's on our side "we're fucked.:angry2:

Many like to go on group rides ... especially "Charity runs" ... and have the idea that their group is somehow special ... and exempt from normal road rules and recommendations ...

Sort of like funeral processions. They don't like being split up .... So they travel close together.

Then ... either a few idiots get pissed off and do silly things ... or the bikers do the silly stuff.

[FJRider]

Rubbish !!!:facepalm:

Tell that to those (The Powers That Be) that made the decision in the first place.

[pete376403]

Sorry to tell you but there's already a ginormous thread on KB on that topic.:facepalm:

Yeah I started reading the threads from top down, so found this one before that one. Sorry if I offended your sense of internet thread etiquette

[Katman]

Where's a mod when you need them?

[Bassmatt]

Can you come and move norf? I have presented myself at the local cop shop, complete with rego numbers and a very good description of some of the most unbelievable driving I have ever seen ( a light truck with a diger on the back, pulled out on a passing lane without indication or looking, and forced another car over a double yellow line on a blind corner, on one of this regions most deadly stretches of road) I had to take evasive action so as not to have ended up in the same place. Thank God nothing was coming or it would have been total carnage, and would have most likely involved me too. This truck had just ( less than a min from when I stopped at the station) turned down a bit of road that had few options of destination, and at the speed the thing was travelling would have been an easy catch up. HP plod was on station, and came to talk to me at the counter. Nothing he could do apparently unless I took these papers home and completed them! EH? Ok, I will stand here and complete them right now, the truck is only just up the road, no, take them away and do it, in most of these cases we end up charging the person making the complaint, so think carefully before you fill them out!


He was not at all interested, fecked it I know if he ever did anythign about it, my guess? He filed it in the bin. Our HP cops are not well respected up here, cant imagine why?

Sad news though about these bikers killed. I count 5 dead this weekend alone. Must be the start of summer.

What. The. Fuck?
Any of the popo on here like to elaborate on this?

[JimO]

you should have told him the truck driver was using a cellphone, he would have been keen to nab him then

[swbarnett]

I've had the same experience and have now got a camera to record the next one.
Be careful what it records of your own riding. You may find you're the one in the firing line.

[jellywrestler]

clown from BRONZ on telly tonight saying they should've had a police escort and this would've stopped this sort of incident happening.
who the fuck does he think he is?
I recall the first ride where they put a the PoPo's in to make it safe and one of them crashed, was a bit of a larf...

[scumdog]

Yeah I started reading the threads from top down, so found this one before that one. Sorry if I offended your sense of internet thread etiquette

Oh it don't worry me none - I have no 'sense of internet thread etiqutte' - or so the mods tell me from time to time...

[Road kill]

clown from BRONZ on telly tonight saying they should've had a police escort and this would've stopped this sort of incident happening.
who the fuck does he think he is?
I recall the first ride where they put a the PoPo's in to make it safe and one of them crashed, was a bit of a larf...

If a cop had been escorting the ride up front and on a bike surely he would now be in the same situation as the people that where run down.

Guess a lot of people are simply looking for answers to a very bad situation so things like this are said in the heat of the moment,,,much like here huh.

[YellowDog]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10851498&ref=rss

[MyGSXF]

Heard this guy on the radio today "head of the NZMC safety council,,pointing out all his reasons it was pretty much the bikers own fault somebody ran them down because they were riding in a large group

What station were you listening to? got a link to interview at all?

[young1]

Accidents like this make me question whether I should stop riding on the road.

[Road kill]

What station were you listening to? got a link to interview at all?

Was on the Coast.

No link,wouldn't know how.

[MyGSXF]

Was on the Coast.

No link,wouldn't know how.

Ta. A writeup on the website says:

"Motor Cycle safety experts say riding motorcycles in groups is extremely dangerous

CEO of New Zealand Motorcycle Safety Consultants, Allan Kirk, says the problem with riding in groups is that motorcyclists tend to get complacent.

He says motorcyclists riding in groups is always a very dangerous thing, as a large number of crashes happen when bikers are riding in groups because they tend to take all their signals from the rider ahead.

Mr Kirk says when motorcyclists ride in groups the number of casualties and fatalities is always worse"

[Road kill]

Accidents like this make me question whether I should stop riding on the road.

Under stand that,,,,I do a large group/club ride twice a year,,,,,,,,,,,right out the back.

Something I've done for many years even when riding with only one or two other bikes is to always be about 500 meters behind the other rider/riders.

It's saved me grief a number times and I don't care if I arrive somewhere 60 or more seconds after the other guys,,at lest I do arrive which is more than can be said for a few people I've known.

On the road I try to except total responsibility for what happens to me.

Nobody twists my throttle but me and I've never been involved in an incident with another vehicle while on my bikes so I think the mind set works.

Don't give anything up because of what other people do.

[Road kill]

Ta. A writeup on the website says:

"Motor Cycle safety experts say riding motorcycles in groups is extremely dangerous

CEO of New Zealand Motorcycle Safety Consultants, Allan Kirk, says the problem with riding in groups is that motorcyclists tend to get complacent.

He says motorcyclists riding in groups is always a very dangerous thing, as a large number of crashes happen when bikers are riding in groups because they tend to take all their signals from the rider ahead.

Mr Kirk says when motorcyclists ride in groups the number of casualties and fatalities is always worse"

It came across differently on air.

Very judgemental,,,but in hind sight,,,yeah.

[MyGSXF]

It came across differently on air.

Very judgemental,,,but in hind sight,,,yeah.

Will checkwebsite again tomorrow to see if they have updated it :corn:


On the road I try to except total responsibility for what happens to me.

Nobody twists my throttle but me and I've never been involved in an incident with another vehicle while on my bikes so I think the mind set works.

Don't give anything up because of what other people do.

Couldn't agree more!!! :2thumbsup

[scumdog]

Under stand that,,,,I do a large group/club ride twice a year,,,,,,,,,,,right out the back.

Something I've done for many years even when riding with only one or two other bikes is to always be about 500 meters behind the other rider/riders.

It's saved me grief a number times and I don't care if I arrive somewhere 60 or more seconds after the other guys,,at lest I do arrive which is more than can be said for a few people I've known.

On the road I try to except total responsibility for what happens to me.

Nobody twists my throttle but me and I've never been involved in an incident with another vehicle while on my bikes so I think the mind set works.

Don't give anything up because of what other people do.

Same as me - leave a BIG gap out front and if somebody behind me 'crowds' me I move over and let them by.

[caseye]

Done a hell of a lot of group rides over the last few years and going back a ways I've done shit loads of BIG 1 - heaps of thousands of bikes and only ever seen one crash.
In that case the rider went wide on a tightening corner and laid himself under the side of an oncoming car.he had plenty of room and no other bikes were involved.
The chances of more than one bike being involved in a group ride are greater, yes.
The chances can be stretched considerably by courteous and consistent riding practices, such as giving the bike in front plenty of room, staggering your formation and still leaving that big gap between you and the bike in front. By the way , this discourages cage drivers form attempting to enter your formation.
Anyone who rides and doesn't think that group riding isn't more dangerous than single or one or two rider rides is a bloody fool.
Having said that, to go on radio or be interviewed and state that other rides somehow asked for or should expect to be taken out simply because they were participating in a group ride needs their arse kicking until their nose bleeds!
:angry2:

[veldthui]

Why, oh why did they put those stupid rumble strips on the roadsides instead of on the centreline? This would stop a lot of people from drifting over to the wrong side of the road.

Good idea. Put them in the middle of the road and then when we cross them to pass a car going slow we can wipe ourselves out.

[Mom]

What. The. Fuck?
Any of the popo on here like to elaborate on this?

Apparently, so they say, if you have been in a near miss situation you most likely contributed to the situation, or so I was told. Utter crap in this case, but that was the reason I got given.

[jellywrestler]

If a cop had been escorting the ride up front and on a bike surely he would now be in the same situation as the people that where run down.

Guess a lot of people are simply looking for answers to a very bad situation so things like this are said in the heat of the moment,,,much like here huh.

nowhere did it say that the front bikes were taken in fact a few threads ago someone said they were ahead of the crash.

BRONZ made this statement on the sunday nite news, it wasn't heat of the moment. more like we really haven't an answer as it was entirely the fault of the van driver but we've got to blame someone else too, so blame the police, that's what it sounded like to me

[ajturbo]

Having lived on a rural highway in the BOP with centreline rumble strips I can tell you they don't stop drivers overtaking, but they do piss off those who live near the road. The constant 'rat-tat-tat' as vehicles cross the centreline used to drive us nuts :crazy:

i used to ask luke how many we had driven over.... as we drove over them... hahahahaha:laugh:

[Pixie]

Gaweth Morgan and MORONZ.co.nz will fix it.

oh look Gawith has resigned from moronz

do we get our money back now?

[oneofsix]

Gaweth Morgan and MORONZ.co.nz will fix it.

oh look Gawith has resigned from moronz

do we get our money back now?

:laugh: money demanded by the Government as a form of tax and you expect it to ever, ever reduce :lol: The best you can hope for is now that Garth has resigned you might get some benefit for your money rather than having it "invested"
avoiding bang for your buck, too many bangs this weekend :cry:

[Pixie]

Who are the NZ Motorcycle safety council ?,,,at last that's what I thought the guy called them/himself.

Heard this guy on the radio today "head of the NZMC safety council,,pointing out all his reasons it was pretty much the bikers own fault somebody ran them down because they were riding in a large group.

I have no idea who this cunt is but if he's on our side "we're fucked.:angry2:

He's a KB member is he not????? :devil2:

[oneofsix]

Who are the NZ Motorcycle safety council ?,,,at last that's what I thought the guy called them/himself.

Heard this guy on the radio today "head of the NZMC safety council,,pointing out all his reasons it was pretty much the bikers own fault somebody ran them down because they were riding in a large group.

I have no idea who this cunt is but if he's on our side "we're fucked.:angry2:

Great aint it. Ride alone you are invisible so you have to make your self visible ( like you can force the other driver to open their eyes. Ride in a group its your fault for being in a large group despite "safety in numbers" basic herd survival et al.
You are a biker, you just can't win so keep your eyes open and stay alert and even then a "follow" biker will be along with half the facts and a large bias to tell you how you fucked up.

[Katman]

Great aint it. Ride alone you are invisible so you have to make your self visible ( like you can force the other driver to open their eyes. Ride in a group its your fault for being in a large group despite "safety in numbers" basic herd survival et al.
You are a biker, you just can't win so keep your eyes open and stay alert and even then a "follow" biker will be along with half the facts and a large bias to tell you how you fucked up.

Never let comprehension get in the way of a good rant.

[Paul in NZ]

Well my first reaction was pretty typical. Shoot the bastard etc etc… But the reality is that people die on the roads and sometimes you get multiple fatalities in a single accident. Its not that unusual but its more unusual for two motorcyclists to be killed and the have been too many incidents lately.

Yes – there is virtually no doubt (from the reports) that the van driver was a bit over excited. He fucked up big time and people died. Not to excuse his behavior in any way but I’m sure he didn’t wake up that morning and decide to go and kill some motorcyclists… Its not like getting a bit over excited and screwing things up on the road isn’t familiar to bikers either… Despite us being vulnerable users I don’t think we can take the high moral ground despite the obvious temptation.

Like it or not we have to face that fact that there is a price to pay for our freedom to roam and unfortunately that price is not one that’s spread out evenly over all the users. Surely as a motorcyclist its understood that the risk is higher for us? It doesnt make this any easier to swallow but thats the way it is...

This is a terrible terrible thing and the hurt and pains going to go on a lot longer for the survivors and the victims’ families that any anger and bile on KB. The ONLY thing we can do is assist these victims if we can, do our best to keep our selves safe and hope that we are never in this circumstance ourselves.

Other than that I’m buggered if I know what practical steps can be undertaken…

[Ocean1]

a "follow" biker will be along with half the facts and a large bias to tell you how you fucked up.


Never let comprehension get in the way of a good rant.

Fuck, that was uncanny.

Uh, except about the fact thing.

[willytheekid]

:bye:...Ride In Peace guys

I was shocked and saddened to read about this accident.
Loving thoughts go out to the family and friends of all affected by this bloody terrible accident :love:

I too hope the courts throw the book at the driver...but we all know thats sadly NOT gonna happen in a NZ court :no:
...I also believe the Popo should be making a stand in-regards to the Joke sentances being handed out by the NZ justice system! -(surely they too must be sick of seeing all there hard work & effort being dismissed by the courts and slimey lawyers.-eg Repeat drink drivers etc...must be frustrating watching them get slapped with a wet bus pass nearly everytime!:facepalm:)...but the Popo are probably not in the best position to help make the changes we all so despirately want to see within the Justice system.

...and as a note...spare a thought for the poor buggers having to turn up and help with this brutal accident...not a pritty job at all :no:

Please!...Ride safe over summer and the holiday period KBers :love:



...there panel damage...could be our life!


-Willy

[allycatz]

I don't know that piece of road at all but from the photos it seemed quite a major intersection. Were traffic marshalls posted there when the bikes went through?

[Naki Rat]

I don't know that piece of road at all but from the photos it seemed quite a major intersection. Were traffic marshalls posted there when the bikes went through?

This intersection (https://maps.google.co.nz/maps?q=746+Ketemarae+Road,+Normanby,+Taranaki&hl=en&sll=-39.52794,174.279918&sspn=0.001068,0.002642&oq=746+ketemarae+Road,+Normanby,+Taranaki&t=h&hnear=746+Ketemarae+Rd,+Normanby+4673&z=16) (southern leg) is no more significant than many others on the ride's 'round the mountain' route, and the intersection itself doesn't appear to be the problem.

[allycatz]

This intersection (https://maps.google.co.nz/maps?q=746+Ketemarae+Road,+Normanby,+Taranaki&hl=en&sll=-39.52794,174.279918&sspn=0.001068,0.002642&oq=746+ketemarae+Road,+Normanby,+Taranaki&t=h&hnear=746+Ketemarae+Rd,+Normanby+4673&z=16) (southern leg) is no more significant than many others on the ride's 'round the mountain' route, and the intersection itself doesn't appear to be the problem.

I don't know if it would of made much difference anyway judging by the behaviour of the van driver sadly

[george formby]

What a terrible weekend. 5 riders down (http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/8026238/Two-motorcyclists-killed-in-mangled-mess-of-bikes)

I'm a bit stunned, it's not like their are millions of us out there.

[Paul in NZ]

What a terrible weekend. 5 riders down (http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/8026238/Two-motorcyclists-killed-in-mangled-mess-of-bikes)

I'm a bit stunned, it's not like their are millions of us out there.

At that rate there won't be.... Yes - very sad and a bad time for motorcyclists...

[Genestho]

Well my first reaction was pretty typical. Shoot the bastard etc etc… But the reality is that people die on the roads and sometimes you get multiple fatalities in a single accident. Its not that unusual but its more unusual for two motorcyclists to be killed and the have been too many incidents lately.

Yes – there is virtually no doubt (from the reports) that the van driver was a bit over excited. He fucked up big time and people died. Not to excuse his behavior in any way but I’m sure he didn’t wake up that morning and decide to go and kill some motorcyclists… Its not like getting a bit over excited and screwing things up on the road isn’t familiar to bikers either… Despite us being vulnerable users I don’t think we can take the high moral ground despite the obvious temptation.

Like it or not we have to face that fact that there is a price to pay for our freedom to roam and unfortunately that price is not one that’s spread out evenly over all the users. Surely as a motorcyclist its understood that the risk is higher for us? It doesnt make this any easier to swallow but thats the way it is...

This is a terrible terrible thing and the hurt and pains going to go on a lot longer for the survivors and the victims’ families that any anger and bile on KB. The ONLY thing we can do is assist these victims if we can, do our best to keep our selves safe and hope that we are never in this circumstance ourselves.

Other than that I’m buggered if I know what practical steps can be undertaken…
Well said Mr, and I can't bling you again. You've been very wise :)

First and foremost - Support the families, that means even after the funerals.

Be practical, offer practical help, be a friend, listen to them and hug them.

RIP, thoughts go out to all involved.

[SPman]

Other than that I’m buggered if I know what practical steps can be undertaken…
This is KB...rant, rave, accuse the driver, the police, the government, little blue people from Epsilon7........

The answer lies somewhere between ourselves and a dollop of random chance.....ourselves....well, that is one thing, the random chance factor is not something so easily contained.....

[Maha]

This is KB...rant, rave, accuse the driver, the police, the government, little blue people from Epsilon7........

The answer lies somewhere between ourselves and a dollop of random chance.....ourselves....well, that is one thing, the random chance factor is not something so easily contained.....

Agreed John, and how many times have we seen/read similar threads evolve into your 'averse descrption' over the years?

[caspernz]

This is KB...rant, rave, accuse the driver, the police, the government, little blue people from Epsilon7........

The answer lies somewhere between ourselves and a dollop of random chance.....ourselves....well, that is one thing, the random chance factor is not something so easily contained.....

Well, plenty of valid points on this thread. Now I don't wanna sound like Katman, but to me the random thing can be minimised by being a practised rider, employing sound group ride etiquette (yeah right) and spreading out a bit and making your decisions based on your own observations as opposed to the rider in front...oh hang on, that's why I don't do group rides anymore :facepalm:

RIP to all the unfortunate riders over the weekend.

[James Deuce]

Hey boristhepussybiter - debate in public you coward.

[James Deuce]

Well said Mr, and I can't bling you again. You've been very wise :)

First and foremost - Support the families, that means even after the funerals.

Be practical, offer practical help, be a friend, listen to them and hug them.

RIP, thoughts go out to all involved.

You know what? Out of all the people on KB, you and Paul and Deano (also RantyDave but he's not here anymore) would be just about the only people who understand and do that.

[scumdog]

Well my first reaction was pretty typical. Shoot the bastard etc etc… But the reality is that people die on the roads and sometimes you get multiple fatalities in a single accident. Its not that unusual but its more unusual for two motorcyclists to be killed and the have been too many incidents lately.

Yes – there is virtually no doubt (from the reports) that the van driver was a bit over excited. He fucked up big time and people died. Not to excuse his behavior in any way but I’m sure he didn’t wake up that morning and decide to go and kill some motorcyclists… Its not like getting a bit over excited and screwing things up on the road isn’t familiar to bikers either… Despite us being vulnerable users I don’t think we can take the high moral ground despite the obvious temptation.

Like it or not we have to face that fact that there is a price to pay for our freedom to roam and unfortunately that price is not one that’s spread out evenly over all the users. Surely as a motorcyclist its understood that the risk is higher for us? It doesnt make this any easier to swallow but thats the way it is...


This is a terrible terrible thing and the hurt and pains going to go on a lot longer for the survivors and the victims’ families that any anger and bile on KB. The ONLY thing we can do is assist these victims if we can, do our best to keep our selves safe and hope that we are never in this circumstance ourselves.

Other than that I’m buggered if I know what practical steps can be undertaken…

100% in agreement Paul, I couldn't have said it so elequently:niceone:

[gunnyrob]

"Other than that I’m buggered if I know what practical steps can be undertaken…"


Condolances to family & friends, it's an absolute tragedy and my thoughts are with you. 5 Bikers down in one weekend is absolutely heart breaking.

As to practical steps:
* Wear proper protective gear (even if it's hot)
* Make yourself easy to see. (wear bright/contrasting gear)
* Be super paranoid about people who "Look but don't see" at intersections or people driving erratically
* Ride to the conditions
* Enhance your skills through training

Encourage all around you to ride safely, take care out there.......

[BoristheBiter]

Hey boristhepussybiter - debate in public you coward.

Why? I think you're wrong so I reped you accordingly.

If you don't like people disagreeing with don't post.:finger:

[YellowDog]

Yes I also agree with Paul, however one small point I would make over the danger of motorcycles is:

Over my many years of riding motorcycles, on more than one occasion I would have been screwed if I was in a car and only managed to save myself because I was on a smaller vehicle with lots of power.

I realise that the balance is around 2% to 98% against being better off on a motorcycle AND of those incidents, I avoided a crash rather than potential death, but .........................................

[nadroj]

Details are emerging that a Nissan Skyline may have shunted the van into the traffic flow from behind and then done a runner.

[oneofsix]

"Other than that I’m buggered if I know what practical steps can be undertaken…"


Condolances to family & friends, it's an absolute tragedy and my thoughts are with you. 5 Bikers down in one weekend is absolutely heart breaking.

As to practical steps:
* Wear proper protective gear (even if it's hot)
* Make yourself easy to see. (wear bright/contrasting gear)
* Be super paranoid about people who "Look but don't see" at intersections or people driving erratically
* Ride to the conditions
* Enhance your skills through training

Encourage all around you to ride safely, take care out there.......

Nice practical steps regurgitation but all fucking not relative to the case in question. "Make yourself easy to see" :facepalm: There was a fucking big group of them dominating the scene, as for looking but not seeing now about can't miss as they fill the road.
:doh: forgot KB, don't let facts get in the way of a good rant. Thanks, I've had my turn now.

[young1]

Details are emerging that a Nissan Skyline may have shunted the van into the traffic flow from behind and then done a runner.

This morning's Daily News says there is more involved than just the van and bikes.

[Paul in NZ]

Details are emerging that a Nissan Skyline may have shunted the van into the traffic flow from behind and then done a runner.

If this is true then its pretty grim... I did wonder why the back of the van was mangled a bit but assumed it had spun about. I suppose there is a lesson here about NOT jumping to conclusions but the dead and injured remain solid facts and still require sympathy and caring...

I really hope this is not true as there will be one scared individual out there...

[Road kill]

This morning's Daily News says there is more involved than just the van and bikes.

Where did you read/hear that mate ?

Very sad an just getting worse:no:

[oneofsix]

Where did you read/hear that mate ?

Very sad an just getting worse:no:

It was a bit hard to find, I found it buried in this artical
http://www.stuff.co.nz/taranaki-daily-news/news/8030674/You-will-die-on-our-roads-police

[Paul in NZ]

It was a bit hard to find, I found it buried in this artical
http://www.stuff.co.nz/taranaki-daily-news/news/8030674/You-will-die-on-our-roads-police

Same thing - halfway down

[Movistar]

After seeing the remains of the van and the four motorcycles today, it's incredible there were not further fatalities.

As with any accident, resulting in injury and/or death, the effects spread far wider than the people directly involved.

More from this tragedy will emerge over the next few days. Rumours and speculation are running rife, but there is very thorough and detailed investigation taking place that will put these rumours to rest.

Unfortunately, road users will continue to make poor decisions at the expense of peoples lives.
We see it every day, and despite the efforts of bringing more manpower to our local roads, some drivers/riders don't seem to get it.

[Maha]

....a thorough and detailed investigation has already carried out within this thread though...:confused:

[Paul in NZ]

Unfortunately, road users will continue to make poor decisions at the expense of peoples lives.
We see it every day, and despite the efforts of bringing more manpower to our local roads, some drivers/riders don't seem to get it.

Thanks for the update - it seems like a real horror story...

I'm not 100% sure 'decisions' is the right word. Its more a lack of situational awareness and lack of anticipation that leads to any decision being taken out of the hands of the guilty party.. I see it every day I commute - you leave a gap you are comfortable with and whoosh 2 trucks, 3 sub compact and a mini van of paua poachers are all squeezed in... None of them has a hope of stopping in time if there is an issue in front of them and yet all are convinced they are driving safely.... (sorry - poor example I know)

[Movistar]

Thanks for the update - it seems like a real horror story...

I'm not 100% sure 'decisions' is the right word. Its more a lack of situational awareness and lack of anticipation that leads to any decision being taken out of the hands of the guilty party.. I see it every day I commute - you leave a gap you are comfortable with and whoosh 2 trucks, 3 sub compact and a mini van of paua poachers are all squeezed in... None of them has a hope of stopping in time if there is an issue in front of them and yet all are convinced they are driving safely.... (sorry - poor example I know)

I know what you're saying, but ultimately a 'decision' is made on what action to take - some people make good ones, others not so.

[Road kill]

Most of the comments on this site have been based on information received via news paper and online reporting.

That's why I said "heat of the moment" in an earlier post and why I haven't cast judgement on anybody involved.

Must be getting old I guess.

[oneofsix]

Now its the bridge's fault? That's a true KB overstatement :shutup: but at least someone is looking at factors that can be improved rather than just blaming the humans.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/taranaki-daily-news/news/8033665/Fatal-crash-sparks-bridge-review

I accept that ultimately a human or few will be at fault but they are the factor least able to be permanently changed and like with aviation improvement in will really only come from changing things that make it easier for the human to make the right call and prevent other families suffering such loss.

[MrKiwi]

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/images/BP-Brown/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Road kill http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/images/BP-Brown/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?p=1130442128#post1130442128)
Who are the NZ Motorcycle safety council ?,,,at last that's what I thought the guy called them/himself.

Heard this guy on the radio today "head of the NZMC safety council,,pointing out all his reasons it was pretty much the bikers own fault somebody ran them down because they were riding in a large group.

I have no idea who this cunt is but if he's on our side "we're fucked.:angry2:






He's a KB member is he not????? :devil2:

No one from the Motorcycle Safety Advisory Council commented on the accident in Taranaki to the news media, I believe the comments were made by another person who promotes himself as a safety expert. We did post a short message on our MotoNZ main web page, that is all. We prefer not to comment in the heat of the moment.

As for myself, I was on a 5 day motorcycle trip with a group of friends. I caught up the news of the fatalities over the weekend while still on the road.

[Road kill]

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/images/BP-Brown/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Road kill http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/images/BP-Brown/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?p=1130442128#post1130442128)
Who are the NZ Motorcycle safety council ?,,,at last that's what I thought the guy called them/himself.

Heard this guy on the radio today "head of the NZMC safety council,,pointing out all his reasons it was pretty much the bikers own fault somebody ran them down because they were riding in a large group.

I have no idea who this cunt is but if he's on our side "we're fucked.:angry2:







No one from the Motorcycle Safety Advisory Council commented on the accident in Taranaki to the news media, I believe the comments were made by another person who promotes himself as a safety expert. We did post a short message on our MotoNZ main web page, that is all. We prefer not to comment in the heat of the moment.

As for myself, I was on a 5 day motorcycle trip with a group of friends. I caught up the news of the fatalities over the weekend while still on the road.

You guys should give yourself numbers so we know which expert is talking about us "this time"<_<

[Madness]

You guys should give yourself numbers so we know which expert is talking about us "this time"<_<

Like B1, B2 etc. maybe?

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/TiX5SI-weHU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[duckonin]

Thanks for the update - it seems like a real horror story...
I see it every day I commute - you leave a gap you are comfortable with and whoosh 2 trucks, 3 sub compact and a mini van of paua poachers are all squeezed in... None of them has a hope of stopping in time if there is an issue in front of them and yet all are convinced they are driving safely.... (sorry - poor example I know)

No, I disagree with you Paul. All of those you quote know bloody well they are driving like pratts..'Road bullies'.

[Paul in NZ]

No, I disagree with you Paul. All of those you quote know bloody well they are driving like pratts..'Road bullies'.

I'm not so sure... Some people think its actually the proper way to behave but yes - there are a lot of 'Road Bullies' out there.... People that have no power over their real lives seem to think its OK to play god with other peoples lives...

[rickstv]

Now its the bridge's fault? That's a true KB overstatement :shutup: but at least someone is looking at factors that can be improved rather than just blaming the humans.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/taranaki-daily-news/news/8033665/Fatal-crash-sparks-bridge-review

.

I'm confused, how can it be the bridges fault when the bridge is a Km south of the accident?

Has the reported position of the accident been shifted?

Rick.

[oneofsix]

I'm confused, how can it be the bridges fault when the bridge is a Km south of the accident?

Has the reported position of the accident been shifted?

Rick.

That is why I posted it. The photos/maps I had seen of the area showed no bridge. Whilst I have been over the bridge a couple of times it is not an area I am familiar with and not trusting our media to get things anywhere near right nice to get some feed back from someone.

[nadroj]

Looking down the straight in the accident pics, the bridge is another 100+ metres around the corner at the end of that straight.
They are just using it to jump on the bandwagon & get some mileage towards getting the bridge & associated road diversion done earlier.

[monkeymcbean]

If you're gonna kill somebody in NZ do it on the roads.

It gives you the best shot for walking away with bugger all penalty.

Well it could have worked both ways then, plenty of up standing motorcyclists at the scene, who could tell the difference between a careless driver with a broken neck from a good wrenching, or a broken neck from the accident.

[MrKiwi]

You guys should give yourself numbers so we know which expert is talking about us "this time"<_<

Who says we are experts? We're ordinary people with lots of experience who are prepared try and work to advance safer outcomes for motorcyclists. And who is 'us'? What makes you think we are any different to 'us'?

[Madness]

Who says we are experts? We're ordinary people with lots of experience who are prepared try and work to advance safer outcomes for motorcyclists. And who is 'us'? What makes you think we are any different to 'us'?

Do you do this work to advance safer outcomes for motorcyclists for the love of it, or is there remuneration involved?

[scumdog]

Well it could have worked both ways then, plenty of up standing motorcyclists at the scene, who could tell the difference between a careless driver with a broken neck from a good wrenching, or a broken neck from the accident.

Of course you would have got the correct person, the one that 'caused' the crash whose neck you would break...right?<_<:rolleyes:

[oneofsix]

Of course you would have got the correct person, the one that 'caused' the crash whose neck you would break...right?<_<:rolleyes:

:confused: "caused" or "at fault", different things and your job scummy seems to be manly around the "at fault".
The blue rinse that coincided her wave to her toy boy with the light going green would have "caused" the her being rear-ended because her attention wasn't on her primary task whereas the driver behind her had their attention on their driving and therefore the lights and saw a reaction from her so reacted as a driver to the lights but she wouldn't have been seen as "at fault" cause they "shouldn't" have reacted to the lights.


PS:
The driver behind her also double checked her, stopped in time and hit the horn, to which she reacted by confusing moving off with waving to her toy boy again and only half heartily succeeding at both.

[scumdog]

:confused: "caused" or "at fault", different things and your job scummy seems to be manly around the "at fault".


Oh, I'm 'manly' alright!

But I was commenting about a post that I suspect related to the fatal crash, i.e. break the neck of the driver that 'caused' the crash.
So far there has been at least two different drivers that 'caused' the crash - so who knows who actually 'caused it? whose neck would get broken?

And I do look at both cause and fault - although often they are one and the same.

[oneofsix]

Oh, I'm 'manly' alright!

But I was commenting about a post that I suspect related to the fatal crash, i.e. break the neck of the driver that 'caused' the crash.
So far there has been at least two different drivers that 'caused' the crash - so who knows who actually 'caused it? whose neck would get broken?

And I do look at both cause and fault - although often they are one and the same.

I've had my coffee now and have climbed off that hobby horse. :-) Most times they are one in the same, just occasionally the real cause has disappeared.
Straight after posting that I read the stuff (http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/8061508/Crash-victim-asks-What-was-the-hurry) article on the volunteer ambulance officer put in hospital for Xmas in the Waikato by a retard in a distinctive turquoise Ford Falcon that managed to stay out of the accident themselves but are being sort by the police, just to prove the cause even when not directly involved is sometimes hunted. A bit :Offtopic: but one question I would have for her though is why didn't she let the drongo use the passing lane first and get him off her tail, what was her rush? Doesn't excuse the Falcon driver but sometimes it is best to let the idiots go and have their crash without you. which is leading to the other hobby horse of why wont car drivers stop trying to enforce their judgement on me :lol:

[trustme]

I've had my coffee now and have climbed off that hobby horse. :-) Most times they are one in the same, just occasionally the real cause has disappeared.
Straight after posting that I read the stuff (http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/8061508/Crash-victim-asks-What-was-the-hurry) article on the volunteer ambulance officer put in hospital for Xmas in the Waikato by a retard in a distinctive turquoise Ford Falcon that managed to stay out of the accident themselves but are being sort by the police, just to prove the cause even when not directly involved is sometimes hunted. A bit :Offtopic: but one question I would have for her though is why didn't she let the drongo use the passing lane first and get him off her tail, what was her rush? Doesn't excuse the Falcon driver but sometimes it is best to let the idiots go and have their crash without you. which is leading to the other hobby horse of why wont car drivers stop trying to enforce their judgement on me :lol:


It's off topic but as I read it the Doris hit her brakes to get the Falcoon off her tail.
I have never never been able to understand people who do that , you inflame the situation, you try to cause an accident , you invite a reaction , you are almost as bad as the idiot behind you. Why can't Kiwis just pull left & let the idiot go

[FJRider]

Of course you would have got the correct person, the one that 'caused' the crash whose neck you would break...right?<_<:rolleyes:

There would have been a big queue to the van driver then ... eh ... :pinch:

[PrincessBandit]

It's off topic but as I read it the Doris hit her brakes to get the Falcoon off her tail.
I have never never been able to understand people who do that , you inflame the situation, you try to cause an accident , you invite a reaction , you are almost as bad as the idiot behind you. Why can't Kiwis just pull left & let the idiot go

I have tapped my brakes before when a vehicle has been right inside my comfort zone (i.e. well and truly inside the following distance road rules). Why should I have to pull over when I'm traveling at legal road speed and someone is tail gating me? Tailgaters are road bullies who think they're exempt from road rules that others of us comply with. Lately though I just sit at the speed I'm moving at (if I'm having to travel at under the speed limit for some reason then I will move over to let them pass) and they can just be patient. What this comes down to is impatient wankers being able to throw their weight around on the road and do whatever they like. For those of you who would then jump down my throat for "holding my own on the road" rather than meekly allowing myself to be intimidated I don't give a rat's arse.

[oneofsix]

It's off topic but as I read it the Doris hit her brakes to get the Falcoon off her tail.
I have never never been able to understand people who do that , you inflame the situation, you try to cause an accident , you invite a reaction , you are almost as bad as the idiot behind you. Why can't Kiwis just pull left & let the idiot go

:yes: and there is that other hobby horse. Actually had a nice fellow in a blue ute pull left for me in the extreme this morning, half a lane even :woohoo:

[Road kill]

Who says we are experts? We're ordinary people with lots of experience who are prepared try and work to advance safer outcomes for motorcyclists. And who is 'us'? What makes you think we are any different to 'us'?

Not me mate,,,,,as far as I'm concerned you lot are just "yet another" group of self important prats most people simply aren't interested in knowing.

So what's your number ?,,I lost count of your type a long time ago.<_<

[Edbear]

I have tapped my brakes before when a vehicle has been right inside my comfort zone (i.e. well and truly inside the following distance road rules). Why should I have to pull over when I'm traveling at legal road speed and someone is tail gating me? Tailgaters are road bullies who think they're exempt from road rules that others of us comply with. Lately though I just sit at the speed I'm moving at (if I'm having to travel at under the speed limit for some reason then I will move over to let them pass) and they can just be patient. What this comes down to is impatient wankers being able to throw their weight around on the road and do whatever they like. For those of you who would then jump down my throat for "holding my own on the road" rather than meekly allowing myself to be intimidated I don't give a rat's arse.

I do hope one of those tailgaters wasn't me. I do have to be mindful that my number plate is distinctive and my mobile number is on it, so don't hesitate to call me, (hands-free of course...), and let me know if I get too close. I never get too close to a bike, but sometimes I try to let a slow driver in front know I want to pass by flashing my headlights. I don't know your car or bike reg, though... :innocent:

I am mature enough to realise that if the driver in front is doing the speed limit, I don't have a leg to stand on should I wantr to go faster. By that I mean I use the GPS as my more accurate speedo and allow myself the tolerance, setting the cruise control at about 103-4km/h on teh GPS which sees my speedo reading about 109km/h.

What is funny, is that by doing so, I gradually pull ahead of other traffic, even those who go faster than me at times, as they don't maintain their speed and tend to slow down a lot as the road changes gradient. It seems most drivers have no idea what their speedo is doing and that the accelerator is for adjusting speed.

Sorry, off topic, as you were... :yes:

[trustme]

I have tapped my brakes before when a vehicle has been right inside my comfort zone (i.e. well and truly inside the following distance road rules). Why should I have to pull over when I'm traveling at legal road speed and someone is tail gating me? Tailgaters are road bullies who think they're exempt from road rules that others of us comply with. Lately though I just sit at the speed I'm moving at (if I'm having to travel at under the speed limit for some reason then I will move over to let them pass) and they can just be patient. What this comes down to is impatient wankers being able to throw their weight around on the road and do whatever they like. For those of you who would then jump down my throat for "holding my own on the road" rather than meekly allowing myself to be intimidated I don't give a rat's arse.

Holding your speed is one thing , hitting your brakes is entirely different, two wrongs don't make a right as the Doris found out to her cost. If you don't give a rat's arse why put yourself in harms way just because it's your right. Sorry , I just think it is dumb. I simply hold my speed & pull left at the first safe opportunity, I have nothing to prove or gain by doing anything else.

[PrincessBandit]

..... setting the cruise control at about 103-4km/h on teh GPS which sees my speedo reading about 109km/h.

What is funny, is that by doing so, I gradually pull ahead of other traffic, even those who go faster than me at times, as they don't maintain their speed and tend to slow down a lot as the road changes gradient. It seems most drivers have no idea what their speedo is doing and that the accelerator is for adjusting speed.


Yeah, we've found the same. Set the cruise control for 103, you get people racing past at a noticeable difference to your own speed, then next thing you know you're indicating to move around them (without touching the cruise control or accelerator) because they can't seem to travel at a consistent speed. Funniest time was when this one car passed us three times. Some drivers just are inexplicable.

p.s. if I'm in the proximity to someone driving erratically (not just up my date) then I'd be making every effort to put distance between us, either in front OR allowing myself to get behind them. I guess I learnt a lesson back in my much younger days when I was chased (in my car) by some dickwad in his car through Manurewa and I decided after that event I wouldn't be pushed around again. Unless I thought I was in mortal danger.

[BoristheBiter]

Yeah, we've found the same. Set the cruise control for 103, you get people racing past at a noticeable difference to your own speed, then next thing you know you're indicating to move around them (without touching the cruise control or accelerator) because they can't seem to travel at a consistent speed. Funniest time was when this one car passed us three times. Some drivers just are inexplicable.


Me too but mine is set to GPS speed as the speedo is 10% out.
In fact most speedo's I have seen lately are all out, I wonder if that is why everyone seems to be going so slow these days.

[jasonu]

I have tapped my brakes before when a vehicle has been right inside my comfort zone (i.e. well and truly inside the following distance road rules). Why should I have to pull over when I'm traveling at legal road speed and someone is tail gating me? Tailgaters are road bullies who think they're exempt from road rules that others of us comply with. Lately though I just sit at the speed I'm moving at (if I'm having to travel at under the speed limit for some reason then I will move over to let them pass) and they can just be patient. What this comes down to is impatient wankers being able to throw their weight around on the road and do whatever they like. For those of you who would then jump down my throat for "holding my own on the road" rather than meekly allowing myself to be intimidated I don't give a rat's arse.

Are you the police? A lot of drivers here play 'speed limit cop' like you do. Instead of being a prick why not simply let the tailgater passed (who knows maybe they are dashing to the hospital) and maybe you might get the last laugh down the road when they are getting a ticket from Smokey the Bear...

[pzkpfw]

... who knows maybe they are dashing to the hospital ...

I'd expect some form of communication, like hazards on or something.

[jasonu]

I'd expect some form of communication, like hazards on or something.

Expecting and getting are quite often 2 totally different things...

[scumdog]

Expecting and getting are quite often 2 totally different things...

Well they can freakin wait then, can't they?:whistle:

[trustme]

Are you the police? A lot of drivers here play 'speed limit cop' like you do. Instead of being a prick why not simply let the tailgater passed (who knows maybe they are dashing to the hospital) and maybe you might get the last laugh down the road when they are getting a ticket from Smokey the Bear...

Because they are obeying the law , driving to the speed limit, so they are fully entitled to drive like pricks & they will do so if the damn well want to & screw all you arse biscuits who think other wise.
Can someone explain to me why we are considered to be the most inconsiderate drivers in the world :laugh::laugh.
Just taking the piss, as you were.

[Zedder]

Are you the police? A lot of drivers here play 'speed limit cop' like you do. Instead of being a prick why not simply let the tailgater passed (who knows maybe they are dashing to the hospital) and maybe you might get the last laugh down the road when they are getting a ticket from Smokey the Bear...

Why should she let then pass? Tailgating is just plain bullying. There's enough crap behaviour taking place in front of you usually and the last thing you want is having to worry about the idiot right up your tail pipe. If they can't pass properly/safely then too bad.

[bluninja]

Me too but mine is set to GPS speed as the speedo is 10% out.
In fact most speedo's I have seen lately are all out, I wonder if that is why everyone seems to be going so slow these days.

That would be due to (UNECE) Regulation 39 or EU standards. Basically manufacturers can't have a speedo showing you a speed lower than actual , but they can show a speed up to 110% plus 8kmh on mass produced vehicles.

[BigAl]

Why should she let then pass? Tailgating is just plain bullying. There's enough crap behaviour taking place in front of you usually and the last thing you want is having to worry about the idiot right up your tail pipe. If they can't pass properly/safely then too bad.

Yeah but what happens if you need to brake urgently?

Then the tailgater is going to be entering you from a rearward direction. Maybe you like that sort of thing though:pinch:

Far safer to let them go and get on with it.

[PrincessBandit]

Are you the police? A lot of drivers here play 'speed limit cop' like you do. Instead of being a prick why not simply let the tailgater passed (who knows maybe they are dashing to the hospital) and maybe you might get the last laugh down the road when they are getting a ticket from Smokey the Bear...

Piss off. I hardly consider myself the police or a prick. Oh yeah "my wife's having a baby..." I think that used to be a pretty common excuse for speeding? Snort.

[Katman]

Piss off. I hardly consider myself the police or a prick.

Well, to be fair, there were a few times that you came out with "I'm telling Mum".

[Zedder]

Yeah but what happens if you need to brake urgently?

Then the tailgater is going to be entering you from a rearward direction. Maybe you like that sort of thing though:pinch:

Far safer to let them go and get on with it.

What the hell are you talking about with if you need to brake? Obviously they will then hit you and will also be in the wrong legally. Maybe I like this sort of thing? Get a grip!

Far safer to let them pass? What about the bullied driver who possibly drives off the road due to the fwit hassling them from behind? It's no wonder we have a crap name for driving with attitudes like this.

[Ocean1]

That would be due to (UNECE) Regulation 39 or EU standards. Basically manufacturers can't have a speedo showing you a speed lower than actual , but they can show a speed up to 110% plus 8kmh on mass produced vehicles.

In direct contradiction to accepted best practice for manufacture and calibration of any measurement instrument. Fuckwits.

[trustme]

It's no wonder we have a crap name for driving with attitudes like this.

I totally agree buy unfortunately it cuts both ways

[Zedder]

I totally agree buy unfortunately it cuts both ways

Where's your reasoning?

[oneofsix]

What the hell are you talking about with if you need to brake? Obviously they will then hit you and will also be in the wrong legally. Maybe I like this sort of thing? Get a grip!

Far safer to let them pass? What about the bullied driver who possibly drives off the road due to the fwit hassling them from behind? It's no wonder we have a crap name for driving with attitudes like this.

The bullied driver will not be the bullied driver is they let the tailgater pass. Also the road code does have sections on keeping left and not obstructing traffic etc.

[Zedder]

The bullied driver will not be the bullied driver is they let the tailgater pass. Also the road code does have sections on keeping left and not obstructing traffic etc.

So tailgating is ok then Six?

[PrincessBandit]

The bullied driver will not be the bullied driver is they let the tailgater pass. Also the road code does have sections on keeping left and not obstructing traffic etc.

:facepalm: I think we need an OMG smilie.

[monkeymcbean]

Oh, I'm 'manly' alright!

But I was commenting about a post that I suspect related to the fatal crash, i.e. break the neck of the driver that 'caused' the crash.
So far there has been at least two different drivers that 'caused' the crash - so who knows who actually 'caused it? whose neck would get broken?

And I do look at both cause and fault - although often they are one and the same.

Ha, well if I was at the scene and my partner got killed on his bike or driving his car by some idiotic driver who was not taking care, im not sure what I would do, but if I was sure who caused it, I would like to think they would not walk away without something to remind them everyday what they did, and thats not a red mark from a slap on the hand.
Of course thinking and doing is two different things.
Im sure im not the only one who thinks this..... but it would be breaking the law and fair enough, the law is designed to keep everybody in line.
But when you see ...for example driving behaviour getting completly out of control causing deaths on New Zealand roads....and im sure it happens in other countries? the law does not appear to be dealing out the justice due to the crime.
Some law breakers of a serious nature, need to get there 'just desserts' from other means and from my perspective I can't blame people for wanting to take the law into there own hands.
Of course where does that stop, but it would sure make people pull there heads in if they don't know who the next punch is going to be thrown from.

Besides, you think how much less time would be spent posting on sites like this about these matters, more would get done in quicker time, saves on court and hospital costs, if everything is done dusted at the scene of the crime.<_<

[Ender EnZed]

Why should I have to pull over when I'm traveling at legal road speed and someone is tail gating me?

You don't "have" to but that's the only option that's 100% certain to get rid of the tailgater.


Tailgaters are road bullies who think they're exempt from road rules that others of us comply with... What this comes down to is impatient wankers being able to throw their weight around on the road and do whatever they like.

That may well be the case but knowing that isn't going to get you out of a situation that you don't want to be in.


Why should she let them pass?

Because:


the last thing you want is having to worry about the idiot right up your tail pipe.

[trustme]

Where's your reasoning?

Go back to post 174 to follow my reasoning. I in no way defend the driving of the tailgaters but I find the attitude of some of the posts here rather revealing, As a nation we are recognised as being bloody awful drivers & if those attitudes are representative of the average driver it is no wonder we are lousy drivers.
As an aside I have come to believe we are also lousy riders. If as a nation we are bad drivers there is absolutely no logic to the belief that we will make good riders. Our accident figures tend to support this novel concept.
Last post on this as it is off topic , this thread is about a tragic accident in which riders were killed or injured & there it should stay.

[pzkpfw]

Expecting and getting are quite often 2 totally different things...

Yes. And if someone is rushing to the hospital, and expects everyone to get out of their way, they'd be less likely to get that nice thing if they don't communicate. (Beyond the tail-gating itself.)

(My comment wasn't on the general tail-gating thing, it was specifically about that one fairly contrived reason given why someone might be tail-gating.)

[Zedder]

You don't "have" to but that's the only option that's 100% certain to get rid of the tailgater.



That may well be the case but knowing that isn't going to get you out of a situation that you don't want to be in.



Because:

Well, it looks like tailgating is an approved, and unavoidable situation.

[Zedder]

Go back to post 174 to follow my reasoning. I in no way defend the driving of the tailgaters but I find the attitude of some of the posts here rather revealing, As a nation we are recognised as being bloody awful drivers & if those attitudes are representative of the average driver it is no wonder we are lousy drivers.
As an aside I have come to believe we are also lousy riders. If as a nation we are bad drivers there is absolutely no logic to the belief that we will make good riders. Our accident figures tend to support this novel concept.
Last post on this as it is off topic , this thread is about a tragic accident in which riders were killed or injured & there it should stay.

Gottcha now, thanks. And yep we're off topic

[jasonu]

Well they can freakin wait then, can't they?:whistle:

Sounds about right coming from a cop. Behaviour like that often baits the tail gater into a dumb manouver. Let 'em past and hopefully they will get a ticket further down the road.


Because they are obeying the law , driving to the speed limit, so they are fully entitled to drive like pricks & they will do so if the damn well want to & screw all you arse biscuits who think other wise.
Can someone explain to me why we are considered to be the most inconsiderate drivers in the world :laugh::laugh.
Just taking the piss, as you were.


Why should she let then pass? Tailgating is just plain bullying. There's enough crap behaviour taking place in front of you usually and the last thing you want is having to worry about the idiot right up your tail pipe. If they can't pass properly/safely then too bad.


Piss off. I hardly consider myself the police or a prick. Oh yeah "my wife's having a baby..." I think that used to be a pretty common excuse for speeding? Snort.

So you all bitch and moan about someone tailgateing you but you won't SAFELY move over and let them (probably a prick driver) pass and hopefully drive away and leave you to go about your business without someone riding your bumper. Doesn't that sound like the smart and safest thing to do?
Drivers like you are your own worst enemy.


The bullied driver will not be the bullied driver is they let the tailgater pass. Also the road code does have sections on keeping left and not obstructing traffic etc.

My point exactly.

I don't at all condone tail gateing but sitting in the middle of the road bang on the speed limit being awkward on purpose isn't right either.

[Zedder]

Sounds about right coming from a cop. Behaviour like that often baits the tail gater into a dumb manouver. Let 'em past and hopefully they will get a ticket further down the road.







So you all bitch and moan about someone tailgateing you but you won't SAFELY move over and let them (probably a prick driver) pass and hopefully drive away and leave you to go about your business without someone riding your bumper. Doesn't that sound like the smart and safest thing to do?
Drivers like you are your own worst enemy.



My point exactly.

I don't at all condone tail gateing but sitting in the middle of the road bang on the speed limit being awkward on purpose isn't right either.

Whoa there, the issue is tailgating which is just plain bad driving and bullying. There wasn't anything about sitting in the middle of the road.

[PrincessBandit]

So you all bitch and moan about someone tailgateing you but you won't SAFELY move over and let them (probably a prick driver) pass and hopefully drive away and leave you to go about your business without someone riding your bumper. Doesn't that sound like the smart and safest thing to do?
Drivers like you are your own worst enemy.



My point exactly.

I don't at all condone tail gateing but sitting in the middle of the road bang on the speed limit being awkward on purpose isn't right either.

:shake::finger: Go sit on a cactus.

[jasonu]

:shake::finger: Go sit on a cactus.

Nice comeback sista...

[Banditbandit]

You don't "have" to but that's the only option that's 100% certain to get rid of the tailgater.






Naaa .. there's another choice .. Some time ago I passed a car doing 90klicks on the Napier-Taupo Road ... the prick then sat on my arse at 130 klicks .. I decided at 135 klicks he was not a cop ('cause he would have stopped me already) ... at 220 klicks on my clock (and passed a line of cars) he was not sitting on my arse any more ... and I never saw him again ...

I find leaving them behind a better option ... then you don't come across any mess they might have made .. a good solution to any insances of crappy driving ...

[Edbear]

In direct contradiction to accepted best practice for manufacture and calibration of any measurement instrument. Fuckwits.

Bit like the Baker's Dozen? Bearing in mind the end user.

[Ender EnZed]

Naaa .. there's another choice .. Some time ago I passed a car doing 90klicks on the Napier-Taupo Road ... the prick then sat on my arse at 130 klicks .. I decided at 135 klicks he was not a cop ('cause he would have stopped me already) ... at 220 klicks on my clock (and passed a line of cars) he was not sitting on my arse any more ... and I never saw him again ...

There are various things one could do to get rid of a tailgater that might work a lot of the time; swerving erratically and slamming the brakes on, pulling a gun out and shooting at them etc, but there's no guarantee. If you happen to be getting tailgated by a meth addict in a 1000hp Skyline then out running him isn't necessarily going to work. The only way to be certain a vehicle isn't behind you anymore is to have it in front of you.


I find leaving them behind a better option ... then you don't come across any mess they might have made .. a good solution to any insances of crappy driving ...

It's my preferred option as well.

[caspernz]

The whole tailgating drama has a lot to do with ego dunnit? The person being tailgated might perceive letting the tailgater past as some act of "giving in" and thus stays in the danger zone...

Personally, it depends on the situation, but most of the time I'll make it easy for a tailgater to scoot past me :yes::woohoo:

[Zedder]

The whole tailgating drama has a lot to do with ego dunnit? The person being tailgated might perceive letting the tailgater past as some act of "giving in" and thus stays in the danger zone...

Personally, it depends on the situation, but most of the time I'll make it easy for a tailgater to scoot past me :yes::woohoo:

There is no "danger zone". There is however the legal and correct zone which a driver should drive in and feel safe in without being bullied.

The requirement is for the following vehicle to overtake safely and correctly as per the road code. However tailgaters, being bullies, aren't capable of doing that and would rather make the legal driver move over for them.

[BigAl]

There is no "danger zone". There is however the legal and correct zone which a driver should drive in and feel safe in without being bullied.

The requirement is for the following vehicle to overtake safely and correctly as per the road code. However tailgaters, being bullies, aren't capable of doing that and would rather make the legal driver move over for them.

Can't understand why someone wouldn't pull over for tailgater/follower if there is a safe place to do so:brick:

I always do it for bikes and cars that are travelling faster than myself sometimes purely for self preservation.

I think there is also a phrase for it, 'courtesy'

[Fast Eddie]

There is no "danger zone".

oh?
... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=siwpn14IE7E

[Zedder]

Can't understand why someone wouldn't pull over for tailgater/follower if there is a safe place to do so:brick:

I always do it for bikes and cars that are travelling faster than myself sometimes purely for self preservation.

I think there is also a phrase for it, 'courtesy'

As I wrote before, it's up to the following vehicle to do the overtaking safely and correctly. I've read often about "owning your space" on the road both on here and in books. You can't be the driver for them. Also, you are perpetuating the belief they can bully/tailgate.

[Edbear]

As I wrote before, it's up to the following vehicle to do the overtaking safely and correctly. I've read often about "owning your space" on the road both on here and in books. You can't be the driver for them. Also, you are perpetuating the belief they can bully/tailgate.

If sombody following me is impatient to pass, I'll let them go at the earliest opportunity. Not worth the aggro, but always worth the laugh when you see them pulled over by a cop.

[Gremlin]

oh?
... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=siwpn14IE7E
I had to watch that twice you distracting bugger... anything less wouldn't be doing it justice ;)

[Zedder]

I had to watch that twice you distracting bugger... anything less wouldn't be doing it justice ;)

'Reckon you're right.

[Fast Eddie]

I had to watch that twice you distracting bugger... anything less wouldn't be doing it justice ;)


'Reckon you're right.

hehe :D


10char

[Bikemad]

If sombody following me is impatient to pass, I'll let them go at the earliest opportunity. Not worth the aggro, but always worth the laugh when you see them pulled over by a cop.



yup...........what he said

[Zedder]

If sombody following me is impatient to pass, I'll let them go at the earliest opportunity. Not worth the aggro, but always worth the laugh when you see them pulled over by a cop.

There's certainly no aggro on my part Ed, the tailgater is the one with all that. And yeah sure, there's always a cop around to catch them just down the road.

[Edbear]

There's certainly no aggro on my part Ed, the tailgater is the one with all that. And yeah sure, there's always a cop around to catch them just down the road.

Aggro on their part really. I prefer to let them go and get caught for speeding than have them get angry enough to do something stupid and put others at risk.

I'm pretty laid back these days myself.

[PrincessBandit]

There's certainly no aggro on my part Ed, the tailgater is the one with all that. And yeah sure, there's always a cop around to catch them just down the road.

Unfortunately there actually often isn't. (Unless you were commenting as a "tui")

If I'm on the motorway or a dual carriage way of course I'll pull to the left as soon as I've passed whatever I'm overtaking to let someone going faster behind me past. I won't sit in the second lane holding up vehicles behind me who are obviously wanting to (i'll never say "needing" ) to go faster. However if I'm on a single lane road, particularly where there aren't places to just pull over at a whim, then I sure ain't going to speed up for the sake of some inconsiderate wanker behind me. I reckon there'd be extremely few of them who had a legit reason for needing to exceed the speed limit.

[Zedder]

Aggro on their part really. I prefer to let them go and get caught for speeding than have them get angry enough to do something stupid and put others at risk.

I'm pretty laid back these days myself.

But they're already angry Ed, that's their type. Good to hear you're laid back though.

[Zedder]

Unfortunately there actually often isn't. (Unless you were commenting as a "tui")

If I'm on the motorway or a dual carriage way of course I'll pull to the left as soon as I've passed whatever I'm overtaking to let someone going faster behind me past. I won't sit in the second lane holding up vehicles behind me who are obviously wanting to (i'll never say "needing" ) to go faster. However if I'm on a single lane road, particularly where there aren't places to just pull over at a whim, then I sure ain't going to speed up for the sake of some inconsiderate wanker behind me. I reckon there'd be extremely few of them who had a legit reason for needing to exceed the speed limit.

Yep, definitely a Tui there PB and yep also to all else of the above.

[caspernz]

There is no "danger zone". There is however the legal and correct zone which a driver should drive in and feel safe in without being bullied.

The requirement is for the following vehicle to overtake safely and correctly as per the road code. However tailgaters, being bullies, aren't capable of doing that and would rather make the legal driver move over for them.

What's the weather like in Utopia today??:facepalm:

I understand what you mean, but in practical terms when I've got an aggro driver on my arse, I prefer to let him/her go past.

After about 4 million clicks I've come to accept that the Road Code and the Code of the Road are not exactly the same...and those aren't my words, first heard that wisdom from an old trucker who taught me a few things...:2thumbsup

[Zedder]

What's the weather like in Utopia today??:facepalm:

I understand what you mean, but in practical terms when I've got an aggro driver on my arse, I prefer to let him/her go past.

After about 4 million clicks I've come to accept that the Road Code and the Code of the Road are not exactly the same...and those aren't my words, first heard that wisdom from an old trucker who taught me a few things...:2thumbsup

Yeah I know, but how often do ya get someone in a cage tailgating your truck?

[caspernz]

Yeah I know, but how often do ya get someone in a cage tailgating your truck?

Every day actually, despite it being a fuel tanker. No worries with a 20 tonne rated rear bumper...:woohoo:

It's that crazed clown on four wheels when I'm riding my bike that gives me the shits :bash:

[Subike]

Yeah I know, but how often do ya get someone in a cage tailgating your truck?

I have seen this so often on the open road, dumb fucks sitting inches off the back trailer out of sight of the driver, they have no real view of what coming , just sit and bounce in and out looking for the ""gap"" to leapfrog the truck. Seen a lot of close calls because they dont really have a concept of how much truck they have to pass. They forget they are in the "tow" zone of the truck, and when pulling out into the other lane to pass, suddenly find a huge loss of power due to not having the "tow" of the truck assisting them anymore. The worst offenders are Vans and campers. Sadly I have seen bikes do this as well.

[scumdog]

Unfortunately there actually often isn't. (Unless you were commenting as a "tui")



Sometimes I'm lucky and there's a cop right there to see it all - and the one doing the bad driving doesn't even realise it!!!:eek5::pinch:

[Coldrider]

Sometimes I'm lucky and there's a cop right there to see it all - and the one doing the bad driving doesn't even realise it!!!:eek5::pinch:would that be on a sunday afternoon in the 'marina'?, no wonder they wouldn't realise it.:pinch:

[paturoa]

gaaarrggghhhh, there are many types of tail gaters and reason's why they tail gate.

TYPE 1: Always an arsehole: These are the arseholes who always tail gate (except if there is a popo around, which tells a story). I see them daily on my commute to work along the motorway. There are lanes to choose to travel faster, but no, they choose to drive about 1-2 car lengths behind a vehicle in the middle lane. Another scenario where this arsehole is observed, is where there is absolutley nowhere to overtake on 2 lane roads. These are the worst kind and need to be removed from the road.

The range moves through to the "I'm brain dead" and not concentrating type AH2: These occasionally tailgate but not through choice, through neglegence. I do it occasionally as I've realised myself doing over the years when I'm not thinking.

We move forwards to Type 3, the "I'm frustrated because I can't get past" and wil tail gate to send a message. Often observed when a righteous (sp?) right laner travels at 90ks in the right lane or passing lane. This is the 2 arsehole scenario and incorporates Type 4 who is the lead vehicle.

[Zedder]

It sure sounds like tailgating arseholes are more common than I thought they are.

[FJRider]

It sure sounds like tailgating arseholes are more common than I thought they are.

Perhaps ...

Numbers doing it may drop ... if the law allowed us to shoot their tyres out ... :shifty:

[Road kill]

Yeah I know, but how often do ya get someone in a cage tailgating your truck?

Yep as casper said "every day an it's not only cars.

I used to get a laugh when I was transporting big plastic water tanks an I got a good wind gust "the tail gater would suddenly go from being so close I couldn't see them in my mirrors to a couple of hundred meters behind me.

Now days I'm often carting wide and high machinery and quite frankly as much as I do try to be as polite as possible I only move over or not depending on how I feel about my load "nothing to do with who wants to get past.

Sometimes trucks have reasons other than what can be seen for not wanting to move over "but people seldom if ever think about that.:no:

[Road kill]

It sure sounds like tailgating arseholes are more common than I thought they are.

Yes but a lot of them are not doing it because they want to get past,,it's simply how they always drive.

My Mother in law is a classic,,one car length from the car in front and if somebody "me" should mention it,,,I'm just being silly because shes been driving for 50 years and has never had an accident or a ticket in her life.

Another "mate",,,, constantly being brake checked by cars in front of him and he asks "what's their fucken' problem ?

Reckons I'm the cunt because after the first time I won't travel in his car anymore.

Both these clowns refuse to see that they have a problem no matter how you try to explain it.

:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: :facepalm:

Just give up.

[caspernz]

it's simply how they always drive.

That bit right there...it's how they always drive...would be my thinking for the majority of tailgaters.

The classic one comes at roadworks, I slow down for the 30 kmh sign as there's new chip on the road, muppet behind me pulls out to overtake, and because he's so annoyed I slowed down he looses it on the loose chip and ends up in the ditch.

Situations like that I don't even stop for anymore, unless there's no #2 or #3 muppet behind them...then those conversations are usually fairly brief. Something akin to: "Are you hurt? No? Cool, start walking...":laugh::laugh:

[Edbear]

That bit right there...it's how they always drive...would be my thinking for the majority of tailgaters.

The classic one comes at roadworks, I slow down for the 30 kmh sign as there's new chip on the road, muppet behind me pulls out to overtake, and because he's so annoyed I slowed down he looses it on the loose chip and ends up in the ditch.

Situations like that I don't even stop for anymore, unless there's no #2 or #3 muppet behind them...then those conversations are usually fairly brief. Something akin to: "Are you hurt? No? Cool, start walking...":laugh::laugh:

"You must spread...!" :niceone:

[jafar]

Yeah I know, but how often do ya get someone in a cage tailgating your truck?


Every day actually, despite it being a fuel tanker. No worries with a 20 tonne rated rear bumper...:woohoo:


I get that too, guess I'm kinda used to it now though, idiots are everywhere !!!:msn-wink:


That bit right there...it's how they always drive...would be my thinking for the majority of tailgaters.

The classic one comes at roadworks, I slow down for the 30 kmh sign as there's new chip on the road, muppet behind me pulls out to overtake, and because he's so annoyed I slowed down he looses it on the loose chip and ends up in the ditch.

Situations like that I don't even stop for anymore, unless there's no #2 or #3 muppet behind them...then those conversations are usually fairly brief. Something akin to: "Are you hurt? No? Cool, start walking...":laugh::laugh:

I'm always right down on the speed through the road works, it is never an issue for the cars behind me though, they always follow the big white thing like obediant children & pass when the road ahead is clear.... Never realised how many people who drive cars had been in industrial accidents though.... so many have only one finger when they wave as they pass :laugh:

[young1]

Has this been through the courts yet?

[Road kill]

That bit right there...it's how they always drive...would be my thinking for the majority of tailgaters.

The classic one comes at roadworks, I slow down for the 30 kmh sign as there's new chip on the road, muppet behind me pulls out to overtake, and because he's so annoyed I slowed down he looses it on the loose chip and ends up in the ditch.

Situations like that I don't even stop for anymore, unless there's no #2 or #3 muppet behind them...then those conversations are usually fairly brief. Something akin to: "Are you hurt? No? Cool, start walking...":laugh::laugh:

Reminds me of the time I stopped to check clearance under a big tree branch with a high load on a single lane road out Waitakere way and a guy in a fairly new BMW car squeezed past me from behind then slipped sideways into the ditch and bellied the front.
Then he got all shitty with me when I asked,,,well why did you drive into it then ?
So I'm standing their thinking this cunt never got enough punches in the face at school when I noticed there were 10-15 other people there and not a one offered to help drag his sorry arsed car out of the ditch,,so I figured it must be a local custom an fucked off.
Shouldn't laugh but:killingme

[Naki Rat]

Has this been through the courts yet?

This article (http://www.stuff.co.nz/taranaki-daily-news/news/8836084/Driver-in-fatal-crash-charged) in Taranaki Daily News today.

[Edbear]

This article (http://http://www.stuff.co.nz/taranaki-daily-news/news/8836084/Driver-in-fatal-crash-charged) in Taranaki Daily News today.

Hmmm... Linky no worky...

[sil3nt]

Hmmm... Linky no worky...http://www.stuff.co.nz/taranaki-daily-news/news/8836084/Driver-in-fatal-crash-charged

[Maha]

In light of the outcome (and it's the first fatality) perhaps something should be done to the Normanby overpass to lessen the crash rate?

''The crash was at a recognised black spot and came just one month after NZTA released statistics justifying a decision to spend money improving New Plymouth's Waiwhakaiho bridge instead of the Normanby overpass.

In 2005 three people died and two were injured in a crash on the overpass''.

[nadroj]

The crash site is far enough away from the overpass as to not have been a factor at all.
Yes there have been fatalities on the overpass including multiples and motorcyclists.

[Naki Rat]

The crash site is far enough away from the overpass as to not have been a factor at all.
Yes there have been fatalities on the overpass including multiples and motorcyclists.+1
See photo #3 in this Stuff article (http://www.stuff.co.nz/taranaki-daily-news/news/8023795/Major-crash-on-SH3) from the OP. Normanby overbridge is a left hander beyond the right hander in the background. About 800m from the accident scene to the OB by Google maps.

[Naki Rat]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10905553

[Mo NZ]

Guilty plea. Lawyer asked for Community work. Stood down for sentencing report. What a f..n joke.:mad:
I hope the judge grows some nuts.

[Naki Rat]

This Taranaki Daily News article (http://www.stuff.co.nz/taranaki-daily-news/news/8983452/Driver-at-fault-in-fatal-crash) gives a summary of what happened.

Combined with the "the injured man [I]had hired a private investigator and lawyer to clear his name over the crash" ( from the NZH article), the resistance to his accepting any self responsibility beggars belief :angry: What he did is manslaughter by neglect and his sentence should reflect that :bash:

[willytheekid]

...I hope the judge grows some nuts.

Don't count on it mate...the NZ justice system is set up in favour of the guilty , crimminals and the rich!....not the poor, or the innocent, or the victims!

...there will be no justice....just more heart ache for that poor riders family and friends :weep:

[scumdog]

In light of the outcome (and it's the first fatality) perhaps something should be done to the Normanby overpass to lessen the crash rate?

''The crash was at a recognised black spot and came just one month after NZTA released statistics justifying a decision to spend money improving New Plymouth's Waiwhakaiho bridge instead of the Normanby overpass.

In 2005 three people died and two were injured in a crash on the overpass''.

So who decided it was a 'recognised black spot'??

I've known a lawyer to say "It's a tricky bend where several crashes have occurred your honour, in fact where my client crashed was the scene of a crash only a couple of months ago" - when in fact those two crashes were the only two in at that particular bend in at least a ten-year period.

[Edbear]

So who decided it was a 'recognised black spot'??

I've known a lawyer to say "It's a tricky bend where several crashes have occurred your honour, in fact where my client crashed was the scene of a crash only a couple of months ago" - when in fact those two crashes were the only two in at that particular bend in at least a ten-year period.

Defense lawyers, eh..? Why does nobody put the blame where it lies? The driver who crashed is usually responsible for the accident regardless. We have a majority of inexperienced and incapable drivers in this country who do not know how to control a vehicle at the best of times, and in situations where a quick decision is required are hopelessly out of their depth.

How many thousands of times have bends and stretches of road been covered daily throughout the country without incident despite this? If the roads were to blame, why is it that many of us here have been driving/riding for 20, 30, 40+ years without serious incidents? If the Cops were really out to get us, how come so many of us have either never had a ticket or have only had the very occaisional one?

I shake my head at the conspiracy theorists and those who blame everyone and everything but themselves for the trouble they get into. :wacko:

[Naki Rat]

So who decided it was a 'recognised black spot'??

I've known a lawyer to say "It's a tricky bend where several crashes have occurred your honour, in fact where my client crashed was the scene of a crash only a couple of months ago" - when in fact those two crashes were the only two in at that particular bend in at least a ten-year period.
The crash occurred 800m from a "recognised black spot" so this piece of non-information (and typically lazy reporting) is totally irrelevant. Unfortunately those who inhabit our court system are largely oblivious to the real world so feed on such claims with little question :mad:

The real 'black spot' was the fucktard at the controls of the van in this incident.

[Katman]

I shake my head at the conspiracy theorists and those who blame everyone and everything but themselves for the trouble they get into. :wacko:

Like oil on the road?

[Edbear]

Like oil on the road?

What part of "usually" was too hard for you to grasp?

[Maha]

So who decided it was a 'recognised black spot'??

I've known a lawyer to say "It's a tricky bend where several crashes have occurred your honour, in fact where my client crashed was the scene of a crash only a couple of months ago" - when in fact those two crashes were the only two in at that particular bend in at least a ten-year period.

Beats the shit out of me, that bit was copied and pasted from an article about the accident.

[Katman]

What part of "usually" was too hard for you to grasp?

Ain't no "usually" in the sentence I quoted.

[Edbear]

Ain't no "usually" in the sentence I quoted.

That's why it pays to read the whole post. :doh:

[Katman]

That's why it pays to read the whole post. :doh:

Like this bit?


We have a majority of inexperienced and incapable drivers in this country who do not know how to control a vehicle at the best of times, and in situations where a quick decision is required are hopelessly out of their depth.

[pritch]

I followed this thread for a while at the beginning but haven't read the whole thing. As for the "black spot" comment, the Normanby overpass has been a political hot potato locally for quite a while now. Some, including myself, consider that a change of direction accompanied by a change in gradient should not pose an insurmountable problem and that the real issue is crap driving. The yokels though become incensed at this suggestion.

While walking to the local pub for dinner on Sunday I note that work has started on the new Waiwhakaiho bridge so I guess the Normanby overbridge will continue to contribute to our hospital occupancy rate for some time to come.

Herewith what should be the final official word on the Christmas Toy Run fatalities:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/taranaki-daily-news/news/9117637/Fatal-crash-could-have-been-prevented